Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Service Guarantees Citizenship
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:57:49 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Decia.

--- Uriel <uriel@--------> wrote:
> well, actually, thank you for the information - I wasn't aware of
> that! I'll
> simply have to change the name, although I have no idea as to what I
> it will
> be, anyone have any suggestions? I'm willing to consider anything :-)
>
>
> Decia

What about A.M.R.G?
Standing for "Ad Maiorem Romae Gloriam"=To the greatest glory of Rome.

Or perhaps G&P, standing for "Gladius et Pilum".

Or "Enlist, they said" (with a hint of Goscinny and Uderzo).


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Comitia Centuriata Will Be Called To Order - 11/13/2001
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:03:37 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, consul Cassi.

--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Salve Illustrus Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus!
>
> I have noticed that You haven't brought "LEX VEDIA DE TRIBUNI" to the
> vote
> in the Comitia Centuriata. Could You please explain why? Do You think
> it is
> best to only put up a few Leges?
>
> I thought that this was a good law and I support Illustrus Consul
> Flavius
> Vedius Germanicus when he declared his disappointment with the
> voters.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Quaestor of Nova Roma
> Propraetor of Thule

I know I am not supposed to write "me, too" posts, but I thought I had
to show my support for this initiative, for I think it is worthy.

Plus, I think that consul Vedius's other proposal, the one about
underage cives, should also be called to vote again.


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] THE COMITIA CENTURIATA IS CONVENED
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:20:05 -0600 (CST)

Salve Decime Iuni,

> Given that the opportunity to abstain is an option when voting, consider

An abstention is a choice to not vote - the word means "deliberately
refrain" according to Merriam-Webster. It's not a vote, it's the absence
of a vote.

When voting on several issues at once, as we usually do, one may vote
on the items of interest but choose "abstain" (the button that is selected
by default) for those items the voter has no strong opinion on.

> the following 'worst case' scenario. 100 centuries vote in an election.
> However, only two centuries vote in favour of a proposal whilst one
> votes against. 97 centuries voted to abstain (remember that this is a
> worst case scenario and, however unlikely it is to happen, it is still
> possible). If abstaining centuries are not counted in the simple majority
> definition then in this case proposal in question is adopted with only
> 2% of voting centuries actually voting in favour.

Yes, and I consider that a desirable outcome. Twice as many voted in
favor of the proposal as voted against it. The other 97% didn't care at
all; by abstaining they indicate that they find either outcome to be
acceptable. Why should the 1% who vote "no" be victorious over the
2% who vote "yes"?

> My argument is that abstaining centuries should be counted in the
> 'simple majority' equation, not only to prevent the possibility of the
> above scenario from occuring, but also in keeping with historical accuracy.

And I believe that abstaining centuries should not be counted as "no"
to prevent the opposite of your scenario from occuring, where the indifferent
majority are counted as siding with the "no" voters automatically.

> The original law states that 97 out of 193 centuries must vote in favour,
> no matter how many centuries abstain. This principle should be maintained
> in the ammendment. Only centuries that fail to vote at all should be
> discounted.

I believe the original law to be imperfect, hence the need for this
adjustment.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[novaroma] Returned
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:30:07 -0800

Avete Omnes,

I have just returned from settling most of my mother's estate. I am
just now starting to get back into my emails and I would like to
sincerely thank everyone who has written to me, prayed for me and my
family and called my house and left messages on my answering machine or
with Prima Cornelia. Your kind words have helped me in this very
sensitive time. I cannot thank you all enough.

Most Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata Will Be Called To Order - 11/13/2001
From:	bcatfd@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:40:00 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> c--------us622@-------- wrote:
> > It must be taken on the day that the office is to be
> > assumed and the office shall be considered vacant
> > until the oath is taken.
>
> Salve, Marce Cassi Juliane.
>
> This part seems somewhat excessive. If I'm reading it right, it
states
> that if I'm unable to take the oath on the same day as I should
assume
> office, whatever process got me appointed for that office is
forfeit.
> How about this wording instead:
>
> "It must be taken before the office can be assumed and the office
shall be considered vacant until the oath is taken."
>
> Maintaining (I think) the original purpose, but bypassing some
technical
> problems which may otherwise arise.

> Good idea? Bad?


Salve,

You make a good point. It wasn't my intention to be so restrictive. I
was trying to make sure that the Oath wasn't taken before the day
that one was to assume the office. (such as someone taking the oath
on Dec 26 when one hasn't actually assumed any office yet). By adding
6 words to the sentence you quote up top I think I may have clarified
this (I hope):

"It must be taken on the day, or as soon as possible afterwards, that
the office is to be assumed. The office shall be considered vacant
until the oath is taken."

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius,
Senator, Proconsul

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Service Guarantees Citizenship
From:	Patricius Iulianus <pviulianus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:47:58 -0800 (PST)

Salvete omnes!

> Standing for "Ad Maiorem Romae Gloriam"=To the
> greatest glory of Rome.

Just a note on your translation: maiorem is
comparitive, not superlative. So it should be
"greater" reather than "greatest", but I am betting it
was just a typo.

Valete optime! :->!

Patricius Vitruvius Iulianus,

Civis Novae Romae.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata Will Be Called To Order -
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:25:08 +0100

bcatfd@-------- wrote:
> "It must be taken on the day, or as soon as possible afterwards, that
> the office is to be assumed. The office shall be considered vacant
> until the oath is taken."

Salve, Deci Iuni Palladi.

Precisely! Thanks for listening to a "swedish hayseed with no latin" and
his opinions.

Now, is it possible to incorporate this in the current proposal, soon to
be voted upon? If so, the "new" version should be presented in it's
totality ASAP, so the people will know what changes have been made.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Senior Legatus Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Service Guarantees Citizenship
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:59:04 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Patrici.

It's always nice to hear from you, amice.

--- Patricius Iulianus <pviulianus@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes!
>
> > Standing for "Ad Maiorem Romae Gloriam"=To the
> > greatest glory of Rome.
>
> Just a note on your translation: maiorem is
> comparitive, not superlative. So it should be
> "greater" reather than "greatest", but I am betting it
> was just a typo.
>
> Valete optime! :->!
>
> Patricius Vitruvius Iulianus,

In fact, I did make a mistake. But the mistake was in my English!
Curious, uhn? :-).


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem XVIII Kalendas Decembres (November 14th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:55:34 -0000

ANTONIVS GRYLLVS GRAECVS PONTIFEX OMNIBVS QVIRITIBVS SALVTEM

This is one of the dies fasti (F), on which legal actions are permitted.

Today is a parade of cavalrymen, the Equorum Probatio. Little is known about
it, but the festivities were most probably similar to those that took place
in the Equitum Romanorum Probatio of July 15th and/or the Equorum Probatio
of September 14th. For a description of the parade on July 15th see
Dionysius of Halicarnassus 6.13.14.

The month of November is sacred to Diana.


Di incolumem populum romanum servent

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata Will Be Called To Order - 11/13/2001
From:	SPQR_HQ@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:20:28 -0000

I must state for the record that the requirement to swear by a
certain set of deities is an assault on religious freedom and
designed to limit membership in Nova Roma to those who are not
followers of "One God", be they devout Jews, Christians or Muslims.

As an American I find this repugnant and against the Constitution of
the Country, that I as a veteran of the military, and a Citicen of
the United SDtates of America, have sworn to uphold.

Please remove me from the roll of Nova Roma Citizens.

Caius Fabius Varus





In novaroma@--------, bcatfd@t... wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> > c--------us622@-------- wrote:
> > > It must be taken on the day that the office is to be
> > > assumed and the office shall be considered vacant
> > > until the oath is taken.
> >
> > Salve, Marce Cassi Juliane.
> >
> > This part seems somewhat excessive. If I'm reading it right, it
> states
> > that if I'm unable to take the oath on the same day as I should
> assume
> > office, whatever process got me appointed for that office is
> forfeit.
> > How about this wording instead:
> >
> > "It must be taken before the office can be assumed and the office
> shall be considered vacant until the oath is taken."
> >
> > Maintaining (I think) the original purpose, but bypassing some
> technical
> > problems which may otherwise arise.
>
> > Good idea? Bad?
>
>
> Salve,
>
> You make a good point. It wasn't my intention to be so restrictive.
I
> was trying to make sure that the Oath wasn't taken before the day
> that one was to assume the office. (such as someone taking the oath
> on Dec 26 when one hasn't actually assumed any office yet). By
adding
> 6 words to the sentence you quote up top I think I may have
clarified
> this (I hope):
>
> "It must be taken on the day, or as soon as possible afterwards,
that
> the office is to be assumed. The office shall be considered vacant
> until the oath is taken."
>
> Vale,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladius,
> Senator, Proconsul

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Service Guarantees Citizenship
From:	bsmith3121@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:51:04 EST

Very good. I really enjoyed Volume 2.

Caius Titinius Varus

In a message dated 11/13/2001 3:23:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
uriel@-------- writes:

<< I have a new comic panel that Pompeia Cornelia Strabo and I have been
working on called 'Service Guarantees Citizenship' on my page. I'd like some
opinions on it, if I could. >>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata Will Be Called To Order - 11/13/2001
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:45:26 -0800 (PST)

The United States in its symbols swears to god....what
of those who are not christian are church and state
really seperate?
quintus cornelius caesar
--- SPQR_HQ@-------- wrote:
> I must state for the record that the requirement to
> swear by a
> certain set of deities is an assault on religious
> freedom and
> designed to limit membership in Nova Roma to those
> who are not
> followers of "One God", be they devout Jews,
> Christians or Muslims.
>
> As an American I find this repugnant and against the
> Constitution of
> the Country, that I as a veteran of the military,
> and a Citicen of
> the United SDtates of America, have sworn to uphold.
>
> Please remove me from the roll of Nova Roma
> Citizens.
>
> Caius Fabius Varus
>
>
>
>
>
> In novaroma@--------, bcatfd@t... wrote:
> > --- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <from@d...>
> wrote:
> > > c--------us622@-------- wrote:
> > > > It must be taken on the day that the office is
> to be
> > > > assumed and the office shall be considered
> vacant
> > > > until the oath is taken.
> > >
> > > Salve, Marce Cassi Juliane.
> > >
> > > This part seems somewhat excessive. If I'm
> reading it right, it
> > states
> > > that if I'm unable to take the oath on the same
> day as I should
> > assume
> > > office, whatever process got me appointed for
> that office is
> > forfeit.
> > > How about this wording instead:
> > >
> > > "It must be taken before the office can be
> assumed and the office
> > shall be considered vacant until the oath is
> taken."
> > >
> > > Maintaining (I think) the original purpose, but
> bypassing some
> > technical
> > > problems which may otherwise arise.
> >
> > > Good idea? Bad?
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > You make a good point. It wasn't my intention to
> be so restrictive.
> I
> > was trying to make sure that the Oath wasn't taken
> before the day
> > that one was to assume the office. (such as
> someone taking the oath
> > on Dec 26 when one hasn't actually assumed any
> office yet). By
> adding
> > 6 words to the sentence you quote up top I think I
> may have
> clarified
> > this (I hope):
> >
> > "It must be taken on the day, or as soon as
> possible afterwards,
> that
> > the office is to be assumed. The office shall be
> considered vacant
> > until the oath is taken."
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Decius Iunius Palladius,
> > Senator, Proconsul
>
>


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata Will Be Called To Order - 11/13/2001
From:	"Marcus Ursus" <Floreus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:23:01 -0600

Ave,

As a newer Citizen of Nova Roma.. let me share my insight:

I disagree with the assessment that Nova Roma is assaulting religious
freedom, it's most certainly not a 'pagans only club'. After glancing
through the album gentium I see numerous cases of: Iesous Christus, Iesus
Christus, Pater ( Yahweh), Sanctus Spiritus , Yahweh.. etc. So I'm curious
on exactly how we 'limit membership' in Nova Roma?

I'm an American as well, fought for my Government's Foreign policy in
Bosnia.. swore the same Oath you did. Yet, I'm also a Citizen of Nove
Roma... and beholden to that Constitution as well. Before even applying for
Citizenship, you can damn sure bet I read the constitution. While reading I
noticed these little gems:

"As the spiritual heir to the ancient Roman Republic and Empire, Nova Roma
shall endeavor to exist, in all manners practical and acceptable, as the
modern restoration of the ancient Roman Republic. The culture, religion, and
society of Nova Roma shall be patterned upon those of ancient Rome."

"Complete authority over their own personal and household rites, rituals,
and beliefs, pagan or otherwise; except where this Constitution mandates
participation in the rites of the Religio Romana, such as the case of
magistrates and Senators;"

And:

"The Religio Romana, the worship of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be
the official religion of Nova Roma. All magistrates and Senators, as
officers of the State, shall be required to publically show respect for the
Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that made Rome great. Magistrates,
Senators, and citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but
may not engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the
Gods, the Religio Romana, or its practitioners."

Whoa... there... hold everything. Did I just read in all that... that I may
do as I wish in my private and public worship? The one exception being as a
Magistrate or Senator-- then I must show respect publically to the Gods of
Rome as long as I don't defame them, etc.

I'm Asatru, which is relevant in that I don't privately follow the Roman
Gods, though I did think about it before applying and decided that *if* ever
ran/elected for any office-- that I would have no problem publically
honoring the Roman Gods.

My point in all this? That before you leap... you should really look. None
of this was "sprung" on anyone... and none of this is religiously
offensive... if you had read the constitution, that would have been readily
apparent.


Salvete,

Marcus Floreus Ursus






>I must state for the record that the requirement to swear by a
>certain set of deities is an assault on religious freedom and
>designed to limit membership in Nova Roma to those who are not
>followers of "One God", be they devout Jews, Christians or Muslims.
>
>As an American I find this repugnant and against the Constitution of
>the Country, that I as a veteran of the military, and a Citicen of
>the United SDtates of America, have sworn to uphold.
>
>Please remove me from the roll of Nova Roma Citizens.
>
>Caius Fabius Varus


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Dinosaurs in Ancient Rome?
From:	"Aulus Sertorius" <aulus_sertorius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:46:11 -0600

Salve,

I'm curious to know if the Ancient Romans, or any other ancient civilizations for that matter, ever recorded finding dinosaur bones or fossils of anything? If so, what did they think they were? Did they have names for them? And assistance on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
---
-Aulus Sertorius Doctus
"Doctus Maximus!"


Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Dinosaurs in Ancient Rome?
From:	a.cato@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 22:39:29 -0000

Salve Aule Sertori: For a little information on Greeks and Romans
and the finding of dinosaur bones, check out
http://www.dinosaur.org/bzmayor.htm There has been research on this
subject, and it looks like the Romans even had their own version of
museums.
vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
Rogator, Novae Romae
Procurator, Provincia Canadae Orientalis
> Salve,
>
> I'm curious to know if the Ancient Romans, or any other ancient
civilizations for that matter, ever recorded finding dinosaur bones
or fossils of anything? If so, what did they think they were? Did
they have names for them? And assistance on this subject would be
greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> ---
> -Aulus Sertorius Doctus
> "Doctus Maximus!"
>
>
> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-
Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

Subject:	[novaroma] ML Italia
From:	"Gaius Quirinus" <gaius_quirinus_caesar@-------->
Date:	Tue, 13 Nov 2001 02:45:16 +0100

Salvete omnes,
i will remembare to all the new italian citizens that we have our own ML:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nr_italia
Hope to see you all there!
Vale,
Gaius Quirinus Caesar
Paterfamilis Gentis Quirina
Civis Italiae, Provincia Novae Romae

-------
Amicis ego plocabilem, inimicis inexorabiles praebes! (Epitaphium)
-------
Vita populorum seculis metenda est,
Italae mille annorum spatium!
-------
Salve, cara Deis, tellus sanctissima salve,/tellus tuta bonis, metuenda
superbis.
(Francesco Petrarca, Epistole Metriche, III, 24, Ad Italiam)
-------
Nihil Amorem Vrbem superare potest...ROMA NVNC ET SEMPER!


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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Dinosaurs in Ancient Rome?
From:	radams36@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Nov 2001 23:17:01 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Aulus Sertorius" <aulus_sertorius@e...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I'm curious to know if the Ancient Romans, or any other ancient
civilizations for that matter, ever recorded finding dinosaur bones
or fossils of anything? If so, what did they think they were? Did
they have names for them? And assistance on this subject would be
greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> ---
> -Aulus Sertorius Doctus
> "Doctus Maximus!"
>
>
> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-
Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

Salve, Docte!

If I remember correctly, prior to the 19th century, fossils were
regarded as the bones of the Old Testament giants, or curiosities
that were not related to ancient creatures at all, or dragons, or as
creations of Satan. It was only a little more than a century and a
half ago that scientists like William Buckland, Gideon Mantell, and
Sir Richard Owen began to realize what fossils actually were, and to
describe, analyze, and categorize them. They were known to a number
of earlier civilizations. I believe I may have some more info that's
not actually handy right now that I can check into later.

Vale,

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus