| Subject: |
[novaroma] Candidature for Tribunus Plebis |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:11:25 -0800 (PST) |
|
Gnaeus Salix Astur civibus Novae Romae S.P.D.
I take profit on this momentary lapse in the electoral campaign to
present my own candidature to the post of Tribunus Plebis.
Some of you might already know me from some of my posts on the main
list. I might be a perfect stranger to some others. So please allow me
to introduce myself.
I am 25 years old and I live in Madrid, Spain. I joined Nova Roma in
March, and I have been a pretty active citizen since day one. Besides
my posts on the main list, I have been active in many other ways.
I have taken an important role in the orginzation of the Provincia
Hispania, and have been appointed Legatus Externis Rebus (Legate for
Foreign Affairs) by the propraetor of Hispania, Marcus Salix Vigilius.
I have also been involved in the creation of an Academia in the
Provincia of Thule, and have thus been appointed Triumvir Academiae and
Scriba ad Res Externas (PR Scribe) by the propraetor of Thule, Caeso
Fabius Quintilianus. I have also founded a prospective new sodalitas of
Nova Roma, the Sodalitas Athletica, that thus far has had some
participation problems, but that I hope will some day upgrade to be a
proper and recognized sodalitas.
As part of my duties in Hispania, I have created and mantained a
provincial website that you can visit at:
http://www.geocities.com/nrhispania
I have also worked to prepare a provincial meeting in Hispania, that
tooked place in October, and that will be followed by more provincial
meetings in the future.
My intentios, if I get elected, are:
I. To provide a faithful protection for anyone in need, under the
guidance of the Constitution of Nova Roma.
II. To promote a higher level of participation of all citizens, taking
a preferent interest in the participation of our plebeian cives.
III. To help build our Republic by following the historical Roman
tradition as long as it can be done without unbearable clashes with
modern sensibilities.
IV. To cooperate with my fellow maigistates in the best interest of the
Republic, over personal interests.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Declaration of Candidacy for Quaestor |
| From: |
"pjane" <pcassia@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:23:52 -0000 |
|
Gaius Minucius Hadrianus is another candidate whom I've had the
privilege to know in the past year, and I believe he will do an
admirable job as Quaestor. He has been active in encouraging NR
activity in Provincia Nova Britannia, and I endorse him as well as his
Paterfamilias.
Patricia Cassia
Quaestor, Nova Roma
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Apologies (was Re: Announcement of Candidacy - Consul) |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:43:44 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites.
Before our beloved curatrix throws all the weight of the language
policy over my poor throat, I will offer my apologies for posting
something in Spanish on the main list. This message was intended for
the Hispania Provincial mailing list, and as we inepts sometimes do, I
pressed the wrong button.
However, I will now have to accept the consequences, and provide a
translation:
--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Hispanici.
>
> Sólo un comentario en esta ocasión:
> ¡Ay madre!
>
> :-)
That would read:
"Just a comment on this occasion:
My goodness!
:-)"
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Declaration of Candidacy (Aedilis Plebis) |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:08:17 -0800 (PST) |
|
---Ave, "S. Apollonius Draco"
Good Luck : ) !
<hendrik.meuleman@-------->
wrote:
> Salvete omnes cives Novae Romae,
>
> Today, I have donned the toga candida, and now come
> before the citizens of
> Nova Roma to declare myself a candidate for Aedilis
> Plebis.
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Announcement of Candidacy - Consul |
| From: |
"rabotnik@" <rabotnik@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:30:58 -0000 |
|
Salve
Could you tell me more bout yours program for next years. Thank you
Vale bene
Petrus Domitianus
--- In novaroma@--------, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Ave Citizens of Nova Roma,
>
> I come before you to ask for your support as I proclaim myself a
> candidate for Consul for the upcoming year. I hope that through my
> efforts Nova Roma will continue to grow and develop. I have been
> thinking about this for a very long time and I have developed several
> agendas
> that I would like to promulgate. I will include a list of them in an
> upcoming email.
>
> As for my experience in Nova Roma, I have the following qualifications:
>
> I have been a member of Nova Roma since she began in March 1998.
> I am the first Nova Roman to complete the Cursus Honorum (Quaestor,
> Praetor, and Consul).
> I am the first Nova Roman to complete the full tenure of Censor.
> I am the Paterfamilias of the largest family (Gens) in Nova Roma, the
> Gens Cornelia.
> I have assisted in the creation of the Sodalitas Musarum.
> I am in the process of creating two new Sodalitas (Jewish and
> NovaRomaLaws).
> I was also appointed Lictor by Consul Flavius Vedius Germancius in 1999.
> I have always been a very, very consistent and diligent voter in the
> Senate.
>
> I believe that I can be an excellent Consul for the Res Publica.
> I hope that I am given the opportunity to serve as Consul again and to
> help our Res Publica continue to prosper.
>
> Very Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor of Nova Roma
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] COMITIA CENTURIATA - Finalized Agenda & Schedule |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:59:15 -0200 |
|
Salve,
just to complet this 2/3 majority is used also in Brasil, not for ordinary
legislation, but for constitutional modifications. As far as I know it is the
same in the USA, only for constitutional matters.
If the constitution is as easy to modify as ordinary laws it is no longer a
constitution, that s why in a constitutional countries (not the UK for
instance), you need an extra majority (2/3, Absolute majority, popular
referendum etc.)
Manius Villius Limitanus
Em Dom 18 Nov 2001 23:20, voce escreveu
>Ave,
> No apology is needed for our disagreement. You
>may find the 51% majority better than the 2/3 and
>myself vice versa. We are all entitled to our
>disagreements especially since we are all from
>different regions and countries which may have
>extremely differing governmental systems or not. I do
>not fully know why the United States Congress uses
>such a majority and I do not doubt that it has had its
>arguments due to that rule. But I believe it uses
>such a policy because it demonstrates a clear cut
>majority by a large margin rather than as I stated
>before just barely squeaking by with a 1% margin.
>Though 51%-49% does demonstrate a majority, which i
>won't argue, a democratic system is a system of the
>people. So a 2/3 rule shows that a large majority of
>the people are in favor of this piece being voted upon
>rather than just this 1% that just puched it over to
>pass it. That's all I really have to say on the
>matter and I will stand by the 2/3 rule.
> vale,
> Quintus Cornelius caesar
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
>http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Announcement of Candidacy - Consul |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:01:17 -0800 |
|
Ave,
I am currently working on a statement on it. It should be up shortly.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: rabotnik@
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Announcement of Candidacy - Consul
Salve
Could you tell me more bout yours program for next years. Thank you
Vale bene
Petrus Domitianus
--- In novaroma@--------, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Ave Citizens of Nova Roma,
>
> I come before you to ask for your support as I proclaim myself a
> candidate for Consul for the upcoming year. I hope that through my
> efforts Nova Roma will continue to grow and develop. I have been
> thinking about this for a very long time and I have developed several
> agendas
> that I would like to promulgate. I will include a list of them in an
> upcoming email.
>
> As for my experience in Nova Roma, I have the following qualifications:
>
> I have been a member of Nova Roma since she began in March 1998.
> I am the first Nova Roman to complete the Cursus Honorum (Quaestor,
> Praetor, and Consul).
> I am the first Nova Roman to complete the full tenure of Censor.
> I am the Paterfamilias of the largest family (Gens) in Nova Roma, the
> Gens Cornelia.
> I have assisted in the creation of the Sodalitas Musarum.
> I am in the process of creating two new Sodalitas (Jewish and
> NovaRomaLaws).
> I was also appointed Lictor by Consul Flavius Vedius Germancius in 1999.
> I have always been a very, very consistent and diligent voter in the
> Senate.
>
> I believe that I can be an excellent Consul for the Res Publica.
> I hope that I am given the opportunity to serve as Consul again and to
> help our Res Publica continue to prosper.
>
> Very Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor of Nova Roma
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] COMITIA CENTURIATA - Finalized Agenda & Schedule |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:05:48 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Limitane.
--- Michel Loos <loos@--------> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> just to complet this 2/3 majority is used also in Brasil, not for
> ordinary
> legislation, but for constitutional modifications. As far as I know
> it is the
> same in the USA, only for constitutional matters.
>
> If the constitution is as easy to modify as ordinary laws it is no
> longer a
> constitution, that s why in a constitutional countries (not the UK
> for
> instance), you need an extra majority (2/3, Absolute majority,
> popular
> referendum etc.)
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
But we already have that provision in place. If I am not wrong, a
constitutional ammendment has to be approved by 2/3 of the Senate. That
is not too different of what happens in Spain, which is indeed a
constitutional country.
And before you ask it; no, ancient Roma was *not* a constitutional
country :-).
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY AS CURULE AEDILE |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:19:13 -0200 |
|
Salvete Quirites!
I Manius Villius Limitanus, legatus ad pauliceia propraetoris M.Arminii come
before You
and the Gods on this day to declare my candidacy for the office of CURATOR
SERMONEM.
Platform:
1) Defend always the freedom of speech of every one
2) Defend the people from personal (i.e. not political, not office related)
attacks.
3) Offer the possibility to ALL NovaRomans to express themself on our Forum,
whatever language they are used to speak.
Who am I ?
PhD in Computacional Chemistry
Graduate in Roman History
Professor of Chemistry at the University of São Paulo
Member of the Informatics Commision of the Chemistry Institute
http://www.iq.usp.br in charge of the network, the e-mail/list server (some
1500 e-mail accounts, 20 discussion-lists, 3 of them with some 500 members
each the others smaller) and global security problems.
Married, 1 six years old daughter.
Thank You
Manius Villius Limitanus
Michel Loos
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Apologies (was Re: Announcement of Candidacy - Consul) |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:09:15 -0500 |
|
Salve,
Just as a formality, I would like to comment. Rather than throwing the
"weight" of anything down *anyone's* throat, I sent a private e-mail to
Gnaeus Salix upon seeing his post. Indeed, as I speak Spanish, I not only
sent the post unofficially, I also had the courtesy to suggest a few things
in his native language.
Wouldn't want anyone thinking anything "untoward" had taken place here when,
indeed, I only saw and replied to his message about 3 minutes ago. Oh well,
I guess he made the common error of "assuming" he knew what would take
place.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:44 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Apologies (was Re: Announcement of Candidacy -
> Consul)
>
>
> Salvete Quirites.
>
> Before our beloved curatrix throws all the weight of the language
> policy over my poor throat, I will offer my apologies for posting
> something in Spanish on the main list. This message was intended for
> the Hispania Provincial mailing list, and as we inepts sometimes do, I
> pressed the wrong button.
>
> However, I will now have to accept the consequences, and provide a
> translation:
>
> --- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> > Salvete Hispanici.
> >
> > Sólo un comentario en esta ocasión:
> > ¡Ay madre!
> >
> > :-)
>
> That would read:
> "Just a comment on this occasion:
> My goodness!
>
> :-)"
>
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
> Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
> Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Apologies (was Re: Announcement of Candidacy - Consul) |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:19:45 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Priscilla.
--- JusticeCMO <justicecmo@--------> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Just as a formality, I would like to comment. Rather than throwing
> the
> "weight" of anything down *anyone's* throat, I sent a private e-mail
> to
> Gnaeus Salix upon seeing his post. Indeed, as I speak Spanish, I not
> only
> sent the post unofficially, I also had the courtesy to suggest a few
> things
> in his native language.
>
> Wouldn't want anyone thinking anything "untoward" had taken place
> here when,
> indeed, I only saw and replied to his message about 3 minutes ago.
> Oh well,
> I guess he made the common error of "assuming" he knew what would
> take
> place.
>
> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
> Curatrix Sermonis
I should have dropped a few emoticons here and there. The part of "the
weight of the language policy" was supposed to be a joke :-).
After that, I have to recognize that Priscilla did in fact send me a
message like the one she mentions. I sent my apologies (and the
translation) *before* that message arrived to my mailbox, just to try
to mend my mistake. And her message was very nice indeed. She did *not*
require me to send that translation; as I said, I did that on my own.
Just to say one single bad thing about your message, Priscilla; in the
Spanish phrase you used the right person, but the wrong tense ;-).
Aren't latin languages wonderful? :-).
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Apologies (was Re: Announcement of Candidacy - Consul) |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:28:19 -0500 |
|
LOL Looking back I see you are correct! :) My apologies. Let us chalk it
up to mis-timed communications, shall we? Surely no harm done here and no
malice intended on either end I am sure.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:20 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: RE: [novaroma] Apologies (was Re: Announcement of Candidacy -
> Consul)
>
>
> Salvete Quirites; et salve, Priscilla.
>
> --- JusticeCMO <justicecmo@--------> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > Just as a formality, I would like to comment. Rather than throwing
> > the
> > "weight" of anything down *anyone's* throat, I sent a private e-mail
> > to
> > Gnaeus Salix upon seeing his post. Indeed, as I speak Spanish, I not
> > only
> > sent the post unofficially, I also had the courtesy to suggest a few
> > things
> > in his native language.
> >
> > Wouldn't want anyone thinking anything "untoward" had taken place
> > here when,
> > indeed, I only saw and replied to his message about 3 minutes ago.
> > Oh well,
> > I guess he made the common error of "assuming" he knew what would
> > take
> > place.
> >
> > Vale,
> > Priscilla Vedia Serena
> > Curatrix Sermonis
>
> I should have dropped a few emoticons here and there. The part of "the
> weight of the language policy" was supposed to be a joke :-).
>
> After that, I have to recognize that Priscilla did in fact send me a
> message like the one she mentions. I sent my apologies (and the
> translation) *before* that message arrived to my mailbox, just to try
> to mend my mistake. And her message was very nice indeed. She did *not*
> require me to send that translation; as I said, I did that on my own.
>
> Just to say one single bad thing about your message, Priscilla; in the
> Spanish phrase you used the right person, but the wrong tense ;-).
>
> Aren't latin languages wonderful? :-).
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
> Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
> Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Apologies (was Re: Announcement of Candidacy - Consul) |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:38:58 -0800 (PST) |
|
--- JusticeCMO <justicecmo@--------> wrote:
> LOL Looking back I see you are correct! :) My apologies. Let us
> chalk it
> up to mis-timed communications, shall we? Surely no harm done here
> and no
> malice intended on either end I am sure.
>
> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
Your apologies are certainly accepted, as I hope that mine are.
That is one of the problems of the internet; you can't see the other
side smiling :-).
Hey! But then, you can :-). See? :-).
I will try to remember it :-).
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] My agenda - Lucius Cornelius Sulla for Consul |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:23:41 -0800 |
|
Avete Omnes,
If I receive the honor of being elected as Consul of Nova Roma, I will continue my standard of being extremely active and respond to any correspondence that I receive. I believe it is essential that there must be open lines of communication between magistrates and citizens, and I shall do my best to maintain that philosophy.
In terms of legislation, there are alot of areas that need reform. Some of the main areas I would focus on would be:
1. Removing the care of the Ordo Equaesto from the responsibility of the Censors and giving that responsiblity to the Aediles. Historically, the marketplace was in the jurisdiction of the Curule Aediles, and I believe this should be the case in Nova Roma. Also, this will have the added benefit of removing a responsibility from the already overworked Censors.
2. I believe we need a comprehensive Census Lex that would be both flexible, in terms of contacting each of our citizens to see if they are still interested in being apart of NR. Yet the law should be capable of removing those citizens who after many repeated attempts, fail to show even the remotest interest in Nova Roma.
3. We need to fix the Comitia Centuriata. This is imperative if our government is to continue to function properly.
4. The Religio needs to be focused. It needs to be properly defined that this is a fundamental and extremely important aspect of Nova Roma. I feel this is lacking. When people join up to Nova Roma they need to know that the Religio is present and what new citizens and current citizens can expect.
5. I believe a comprehensive language program should be developed that would include a series of translators who could translate posts, tabularium information, website information, and upcoming votes in a variety of languages.
This is just some of my ideas that I have for if I am elected as Consul.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY 2755 AUC |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:59:35 +0000 |
|
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo Senatus Populesque Nova Roma:
DECLARATIO OFFICIUM: Candidate 2755 AUC
PRAETOR URBANUS
I, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo, Propraetrix et Scriba, with white toga and veil
donned, hereby avail myself in service to the res publica by seeking an
office of Praetor Urbanus.
I have been an active citizen of this res publica since Ian. 2753 AUC.
I. PERTINENT EXPERIENCE
A. Macronational
First and foremost, citizens, I am not a lawyer. I have a good knowledge of
the constitution, follow the political process of Nova Roma to the best of
my ability. If I am in need of knowledge or a legal precedent, in and out
of Nova Roma, I simply look it up.
What do I do? I am a registered nurse. I have been such for 13 years. My
practical experience with law is largely within the realm of ethical
dilemnas with respect to the the needs and rights of patients and their
families.
I have been a vocal contributor, or have been a formal part of groups
assembled to discuss pt. competencies/incompetencies, arguing legally and
ethically with success. In addition, I deal with such fine lines as
rendering agressive treatment or withholding treatment vs. the quality of
life for patients.
In the days of antiquity, "lawyers" were known as advocates. Today, nurse
is an advocate for people as well. And more often than not, atleast in my
field dealing with chronically and terminally ill, legalities and ethics
often play a larger role than doing dressings, passing meds, or
troubleshooting ventilators.
In short, my experience is not so much with the verbatims of the law,
although this certainly has its place; it is the examination and
application of laws and working through ethical dilemnas presented, to
achieve the most positive outcome.
Upon examination of the role I fulfill as a nurse, I feel that my background
lends itself to assisting other magistrates in determining appropriate
legislation to protect and safeguard the virtues and ideals of our res
publica, and the quality of life of her civites. I am pledging to do this
to the best of my ability.
In the final analysis, the res publica is 'her civites', nonne?
Academically, I had to study civil law in university as part of my nursing
program; I was educated in the United States, and am also licensed in
Ontario Canada. Consequently I have a good handle on macronational civil
laws of these two countries, and the concurrent rationales assigned to these
laws.
I have a background in Journalism in which slander/libel laws were examined
at length academically.
I have read on the laws of antiquita rather incidentally in my pursuit and
study of Roman history, as an amateur historian.
B. Nova Roma
As Propraetrix of Canada Orientalis, I have kept abreast of the political
process and I have examined the legislation of our micronation to keep my
edicta consistent with the law.
I have made every effort to avail myself as an advocate for my provincial
civites, and any others who may read the MR, by publically asking questions
of the Senior Magistrates regarding proposed legislation. This way others
receive the benefit of the answers.
I have advocated positively for legislation which has passed this year; two
items that come to mind are the a)lex permitting governors to run for senior
magistracies, subject to subqualifications, and b) applicants to NR not
being given citizenship during a time of voting.
I have written Senatus Consulta on behalf of Sodalitas Militarium, Sodalitas
Egressus, to wit, requests for Sodalitas Status, with close attention to the
Constitution and appending legislation in mind. I wrote the draft working
charter for Sodalitas Egressus.
I have been party to committees to discuss Charters, to wit, Sodalitas
Musarum, Sodalitas Militarium Expansion Project, Proposal for Changes to the
Ordo Equaestor and successful Senatus Consulta such as Minimum Requirements
for Governors.... 2753 see Tablularium.
II. PHILOSOPHY
I tend to be on the conservative side, in that I wish to help reconstruct
the via Romana as closely and as accurately as we can. However, this
pursuit, in my view, must be practical: we live in the 21 Century, and in
some aspects we will find that the ancients offer us only a glimmer of
advice. We will have to make laws for our own unique needs as a
contemporary micronation. We have to also keep in mind that each of us is
responsible for keeping their respective macronational laws, and that we are
incorporated within the United States, and are subject to her laws.
I have been quite vocal in the past about the proposed necessity of
legislation based on historical precedent alone, when the outcomes of such
actions could possibly produce such a disproportional ill-benefit in return
for the much smaller reward of being historically accurate. We must, IMHO
weigh such matters carefully. All would ever want to do, however, is point
out pros and cons as I see them; I believe in the populus having the final
say on matters of this nature.
I believe in Religious Freedoms; I believe that the state religion serves as
a beacon of religious tolerance and Roman virtue. If we are not
practitioners we can atleast look upon the Gods/Goddesses of Rome as the
object of religious adoration of the ancients (and some today) from which
has sprung a wealth of ethics, culture, philosophies, arts and sciences,
without which we would be all the poorer.
I had the pleasure of receiving religious advice from Pontiffs Fabius
Maximus, Cincinnatus, and working with my provincial citizens in selecting
patron deities for our provincia: Ceres, Bacchus, and Vulcan. If I have
never mentioned before in this forum, the orginator of this excellent idea
was my legatus, Amulius Claudius Petrus.
I am not a full-fledged practitioner. Although from a Christian background,
I am very Esoteric in nature. In fact, as of late, I confess a certain
delight for Apollo which I cannot explain or ignore. Spiritual convictions
are very deep-rooted and personal within each of us. I will defend the
Religio's status, and I shall be mindful of the needs and rights of others
who are not of this faith.
III. WISH LIST/GOALS
Paying judicious attention to that which has been done by previous Praetors,
I am willing to produce a series of civil law proposals, based on
precedental incidents which have occurred in our nation, which produced
awkward situations due to the lack of concrete legislation and corresponding
workable punitive deterrants. With the first part of next year being
projected as a rather 'down time' for me, I shall have time to research and
write.
I shall cooperate to the fullest with my colleage, whomever this person may
be, to complete the above, plus a system of court proceedings based as
closely as practical on the legal dynamics of Roma Antiquita.
I shall render myself as an advocate of the Curator(rix) Sermonis, giving
this magistrate sufficient support for decisions made with respect to the
mainlist, if they are in keeping with constitutional objectives. I avail
myself to assume the legal responsibility of perseverative complaints over
his/her decisions.
I am pleased that another magisterial candidate has brought up the issue of
tidying up the Tabularium.........where are those scribes and Vestals
anyway. Excellent idea. If there is anything I can do in this realm, I
shall certainly be there.
Last but not least, I am willing to answer any questions you may ever have
as civites, and I shall endeavor to assist you with any problems you may
encounter of a possible legal nature. And, I am very willing to entertain
'your' ideas about how I can lend myself in service in the capacity of
Praetor Urbanus.
IV. SERVICE TO THE RES PUBLICA
Past
2753 AUC - Scriba Consula Marcus Minucius Audens
2753 AUC - Sodalitas Musarum - Obstetrix Suffecta - Organizing Delectum
Present
June 2753 AUC -present- Sodalitas Militarium Scriba et Legata
July 2754 AUC - present- Sodalitas Militarium - Benefacarius Praefectum
Jan 2754 Auc - present- Sodalitas Musarum - Musea Thalia Collegia (comedy)
Ian 2753 AUC - present - Sodalitas Egressus - Scriba et Legatus Fabrum
-
2754 AUC - Scriba Curatrix Sermonis - Priscilla Vedia Serena
2754 AUC - Propraetrix Canada Orientalis Provincia (Except for a 3 day pout
over a series of misunderstandings...If a statement is requested, I shall
issue one)
Please feel free to post any questions you may have to the Forum or email me
privately at Scriba_forum@--------
Submitted for your consideration this day, XXI, No 2754 AUC, in the
Consulship of Flavius Vedius Germanicus et Marcus Cassius Iulianus.
Magna cum reverentia,
Pompeia
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Situs Novae Romae... |
| From: |
danielovi@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:34:50 -0000 |
|
Salve Julilla.
I agree fully with you. Now the website is really wonderful. It
improved a lot. It is a pleasure dropping by the site. And I wish to
add my congratulations to the curator araneum for this beautiful
improvement.
Bene vale
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
-- In novaroma@--------, "Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@l...> wrote:
> .... est bonus!!
>
> Having just dropped by www.novaroma.org, I was most pleasantly
> surprised by the classy new makeover, and pass on felicitations to
> our curator, M. Octavius Germanicus. Very nice work indeed!
>
> ---
> cura ut valeas,
>
> @____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
> |||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
> Daily Life in Ancient Rome
> @____@ ju--------a@--------
> ||||
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Candidate Sulla's Religious Agenda |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:45:57 EST |
|
Lucius Cornelius Sulla writes:
"4. The Religio needs to be focused. It needs to be properly defined that
thisis a fundamental and extremely important aspect of Nova Roma. I feel
this islacking. When people join up to Nova Roma they need to know that the
Religiois present and what new citizens and current citizens can expect."
Salvete,
Lucius Cornelius, I must point out that since you neither practice the
Religio Romana or are involved with it in any way, you might have sought some
more facts before making this part of your campaign. If you have questions
or concerns about the Religio in Nova Roma you have never voiced them before
- certainly you have not brought them up with any of the Pontiffs or
Priesthood. Anyone would have been more than happy to assist you if you had
done so! :)
I understand that it is helpful to have a wide variety of items in your
campaign platform, but getting solid info together and actually speaking to
the people who work with the subject first couldn't hurt.
As things stand, the Religio Romana has continued to both expand religious
infrastructure and available information within Nova Roma. Here are some of
the developments in this last year:
1. The infrastructure of the Religio has been expanded through the addition
of new members of the Priesthood, the creation of an official religious
calendar, and establishment of Augural policy.
2. The Religio Romana list has continued to grow and has remained an
excellent resource for our religious community.
3. The 'Pantheon' section of the Nova Roma website has been expanded
considerably. This year the amount of practical religious information
available to our Citizens has increased greatly. This new information
includes new Roman rituals, the basics of how to construct accurate Roman
rituals, how to set up a household altar (Lararium) and what ritual items are
necessary for household worship, etc.
4. Thanks to the excellent long term efforts of Pontiff Graecus (and help
from our webmaster, Octavius) an interactive religious calendar has been put
up on the Nova Roma website. Now the Religio Romana sacred days are instantly
available to any Citizen, so that those who practice the Religio can prepare
for upcoming rites.
5. Perhaps most importantly, open Public Rituals have been begun within Nova
Roma. The Collegium Pontificum has begun holding 'live' rituals on some of
the major Sacred Days, in which Citizens can participate. This allows our
religious community to worship together even though we are challenged
geographically. Unfortunately the events of September 11 disrupted that
schedule, (and November is both scarce on Religio Holidays and is also a busy
time for NR with elections) but there will be a Public Saturnalia Ritual
going on in December, and ongoing public festivals after that.
In addition to upcoming 'live' Public religious festivals, other expansions
are already in the works for this next year. The Religio Romana website is
going to continue to be expanded significantly, and 'rites for individuals'
on the minor holidays will continue to be added to the interactive calendar.
There is also going to be a big push to expand the Priesthood and to assist
the Priesthood in being more active. This will be especially helpful for some
of the minor festivals to specific deities under the auspices of some of our
Sacerdotes Priests and Priestesses.
I hope this assists you in some of your concerns about a 'lack of focus"
within the Religio Romana, candidate Sulla. If you have any questions, or
would care to submit some of your ideas for expanding the Religio, please do
not hesitate to contact me or anyone in the Collegium Pontificum.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul, Pontifex Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Sulla's Response Re: [novaroma] Candidate Sulla's Religious Agenda |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:58:31 -0800 |
|
Ave Consul et Pontifex Maximus,
Actually, I have voiced many questions and concerns to pontiffs (who I might add are not in my gens), just in case your wondering. Specifically I would like to thank Pontiff Graecus for his very appreciated assistance.
However, Consul, I do believe that we have a problem in NR when it comes to the Religo. It was very much highlighted earlier last month I believe when we had the resignation of Caius Fabius who just discovered the Oath. I believe that the Religio needs MORE prominence in Nova Roma. It needs to be highlighted and explained that this is a foundation stone of Nova Roma. It needs to be spelled out clearly on the citizenship application and even on the webiste and introductory messages.
I feel that this type of reinforcement is absolutely necessary given the recent resignations we have had. This should never have happend Consul. If our citizens were properly educated as to what to expect from Nova Roma, I doubt those we would have encountered those situations.
As to my personal religious beliefs, which you correctly point out, I am not a Pagan. I believe this gives me an additional insight as to how easy it is for non-pagans to be unaware of the importance of the Religio within Nova Roma.
Consul, could you please forward my post to the NRPriesthood list and the CollegiumPontificum List, since I am not on either of those lists.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Candidate for Consul
----- Original Message -----
From: cassius622@--------
To: novaroma@--------
Cc: ReligioRomana@-------- ; NRPriesthood@-------- ; CollegiumPontificum@--------
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:45 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Candidate Sulla's Religious Agenda
Lucius Cornelius Sulla writes:
"4. The Religio needs to be focused. It needs to be properly defined that
thisis a fundamental and extremely important aspect of Nova Roma. I feel
this islacking. When people join up to Nova Roma they need to know that the
Religiois present and what new citizens and current citizens can expect."
Salvete,
Lucius Cornelius, I must point out that since you neither practice the
Religio Romana or are involved with it in any way, you might have sought some
more facts before making this part of your campaign. If you have questions
or concerns about the Religio in Nova Roma you have never voiced them before
- certainly you have not brought them up with any of the Pontiffs or
Priesthood. Anyone would have been more than happy to assist you if you had
done so! :)
I understand that it is helpful to have a wide variety of items in your
campaign platform, but getting solid info together and actually speaking to
the people who work with the subject first couldn't hurt.
As things stand, the Religio Romana has continued to both expand religious
infrastructure and available information within Nova Roma. Here are some of
the developments in this last year:
1. The infrastructure of the Religio has been expanded through the addition
of new members of the Priesthood, the creation of an official religious
calendar, and establishment of Augural policy.
2. The Religio Romana list has continued to grow and has remained an
excellent resource for our religious community.
3. The 'Pantheon' section of the Nova Roma website has been expanded
considerably. This year the amount of practical religious information
available to our Citizens has increased greatly. This new information
includes new Roman rituals, the basics of how to construct accurate Roman
rituals, how to set up a household altar (Lararium) and what ritual items are
necessary for household worship, etc.
4. Thanks to the excellent long term efforts of Pontiff Graecus (and help
from our webmaster, Octavius) an interactive religious calendar has been put
up on the Nova Roma website. Now the Religio Romana sacred days are instantly
available to any Citizen, so that those who practice the Religio can prepare
for upcoming rites.
5. Perhaps most importantly, open Public Rituals have been begun within Nova
Roma. The Collegium Pontificum has begun holding 'live' rituals on some of
the major Sacred Days, in which Citizens can participate. This allows our
religious community to worship together even though we are challenged
geographically. Unfortunately the events of September 11 disrupted that
schedule, (and November is both scarce on Religio Holidays and is also a busy
time for NR with elections) but there will be a Public Saturnalia Ritual
going on in December, and ongoing public festivals after that.
In addition to upcoming 'live' Public religious festivals, other expansions
are already in the works for this next year. The Religio Romana website is
going to continue to be expanded significantly, and 'rites for individuals'
on the minor holidays will continue to be added to the interactive calendar.
There is also going to be a big push to expand the Priesthood and to assist
the Priesthood in being more active. This will be especially helpful for some
of the minor festivals to specific deities under the auspices of some of our
Sacerdotes Priests and Priestesses.
I hope this assists you in some of your concerns about a 'lack of focus"
within the Religio Romana, candidate Sulla. If you have any questions, or
would care to submit some of your ideas for expanding the Religio, please do
not hesitate to contact me or anyone in the Collegium Pontificum.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul, Pontifex Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: candidate Sulla's religious agenda |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:50:21 EST |
|
Lucius Cornelius Sulla writes:
>Actually, I have voiced many questions and concerns to pontiffs (who I
mightadd are not in my gens), just in case your wondering. Specifically I
would ike to thank Pontiff Graecus for his very appreciated assistance.
Cassius:
Can you please remind me about some of these many questions and concerns? I
know that you save all of your correspondences, Sulla, so when you have the
time to find some of these messages (and the replies to them) I would greatly
appreciate it.
I notice that you are thanking Pontiff Graecus for his assistance to you...
is it possible that he gave you specific satisfactory answers to a question
or questions that you had, and that was the end of the matter? It is entirely
possible, since all the Pontiffs have the authority to deal with such things
independantly.
Sulla:
However, Consul, I do believe that we have a problem in NR when it comes to
the Religo. It was very much highlighted earlier last month I believe when
we hadthe resignation of Caius Fabius who just discovered the Oath.
Cassius:
Sulla, you know fully well that Nova Roma continually has difficulties with
people not reading information that is clearly posted on the website. Surely
the Censors complain about various manifestations of this all the time! If
someone misses such info it is not necessarily a 'problem'. The resignation
of Caius Fabius is a perfect case of someone not reading information that is
*clearly* posted.
Caius Fabius was 'shocked' to find out that our magistrates must take an oath
that guarantees at least tolerance to the Religio and the Roman Gods. What
that means is that he missed information in several places on the Nova Roma
site - including the Collis Capitolinus section, the Tabularium, the FAQ, and
of course, the Pantheon Section.
Since the Oath has more to do with magistrates, laws and the election process
than the Religio Romana itself, I'm not sure that saying this is a "Religio
problem" is exactly accurate. However, I'm more than willing to give you the
benefit of the doubt here. Exactly how do you believe the Religio *should*
have dealt with informing Caius Fabius that there is religious content in the
Magisterial Oath?
Sulla:
I believe that the Religio needs MORE prominence in Nova Roma. It needs to
be highlightedand explained that this is a foundation stone of Nova Roma. It
needs to be spelled out clearly on the citizenship application and even on
the webiste and introductory messages.
Cassius:
While I am certainly all for the Religio Romana being prominant, I must say
that there is certainly a large amount of Religio content available to our
Citizens already. It is in our Constitution, our Declaration, and our FAQ. We
have TWO sections on the Religio in the main Nova Roma site, the "Pantheon"
section, and also a separate section on the Priesthoods. Also, of course, the
Religio festival days are regularly posted to the various lists.
In short, the Religio IS represented prominently throughout the Nova Roma
website and in our introductory messages. It's even on our slogan: "Dedicated
to the restoration of Classical Roman religion, culture, and virtues." Just
how more obvious can we get? ;) As far as the Citizenship application, isn't
that under the purvue of the Censors? You can make any changes to that you
like right now, before your term as Censor is up.
Sulla:
I feel that this type of reinforcement is absolutely necessary given the
recent resignations we have had. This should never have happend Consul. If
ourcitizens were properly educated as to what to expect from Nova Roma, I
doubt those we would have encountered those situations.
Cassius:
Recent resignations? You mention only Caius Fabius, who not only didn't read
the website, but had *many* other complaints against NR, including our
copyright on the Nova Roma flag. If there are more folks who have resigned
because they were Citizens for months and didn't realize the Religio was a
part of the micronation, I'd be most interested to learn about it.
Sulla:
As to my personal religious beliefs, which you correctly point out, I am not
aPagan. I believe this gives me an additional insight as to how easy it is
fornon-pagans to be unaware of the importance of the Religio within Nova
Roma.
Cassius:
If the Declaration, Constitution, website FAQ, regular announcements of the
Sacred festivals, and the entire Pantheon section of the Nova Roma website
are not adequate in informing Citizens about the importance of the Religio
Romana, I would be pleased to hear any suggestions you may have for improving
this.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul, Pontifex Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] My agenda - Lucius Cornelius Sulla for Consul |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:57:33 -0500 |
|
Salve,
With respect, I have just a question or two. :)
> 3. We need to fix the Comitia Centuriata. This is imperative if our
government is to continue to function properly.>>
Could you clarify what you mean by "fix"? I am relatively certain I know
what you have in mind, but when it comes to campaign platforms it is always
better to over inform than under inform, IMO.
> 5. I believe a comprehensive language program should be developed that
would include a series of translators who could translate posts, tabularium
information, website information, and upcoming votes in a variety of
languages.>>
If you mean that such translations ought to occur on the Main List, specific
translators already exist. In point of fact, ALL languages are welcome as
long as they are accompanied by an English translation. If, however, you
mean that day to day business of the Res Public requires such translation, I
admit to a small bit of confusion. It was my understanding that the most
recent Senate vote approved a Language Policy that called for the official
business language of NR to be English. Of course I am in favor of
translators providing edicts, etc to lists in native tongues, but why make
this a key portion of your platform if this is also already taken care of
(in the practical sense) by provincial list owners and/or translators?
I welcome your campaign. I simply request some more specific information
for the voters as we consider such a weighty office as Consul. My thanks in
advance.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Deadlines for candidacy? |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:03:54 -0500 |
|
Salve,
Quick question. What is the time-frame for declaring candidacy for office?
What is the cut-off date for declaring that one is running for a specific
office?
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Declaration of Candidacy - Praetors |
| From: |
"Matthias Stappert" <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:46:29 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quirites!
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo and Titus Labienus Fortunatus declared
their candidacy for Praetor.
I know both for quite good time now, and I endorse both candidates.
Titus Labienus Fortunatus is quite well qualified for the office, due
to his knowledge of our laws and his personal integrity.
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo did a good job in various offices in different
sodalitates, e.g the Sodalitas Militarium. She´s an engaged person,
like Labienus blessed with considerable skills and personal integrity.
Personally, I considered to run for Praetor a second time. But now we
have 2 good citizens able for the office, I will not run for Praetor
again hope that both will be elected.
Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Governor of Germania
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Endorsement of Lucius Cornelius Sulla by Antonius Gryllus Graecus |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:46:33 -0000 |
|
Antonius Gryllus Graecus Senator Pontifexque Omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.
I know Lucius Cornelius Sulla since I joined Nova Roma in its second year of
existence, and among the things about him that I can remember best, it is
WORK. I mean everyday work. Everyday I see Lucius Cornelius Sulla working
for Nova Roma. Everyday I meet him on the Internet - for the worldwide
dimension of Roma prevents me from shaking his hand - he starts to speak of
plans for the growth of Nova Roma, plans to motivate the citizens, plans to
improve administration, plans to recover the Religio Romana. Sulla is a
persistent worker and he is always open to hear the advice of his colleagues
and the people. And his decisions - even those with which I do not agree
personally - have always been taken in the best intention of improving
things for the roman respublica and the roman people. Of course never in
history the all of the actions of a member of a government were agreed by
everyone. But I believe that at least most of the time - not to say always -
Lucius Cornelius Sulla has achieved his objectives for the welfare of Nova
Roma and the fruits of his work are many and good!
If you want someone to work and to motivate the others to follow his
example, Lucius Cornelius Sulla is the choice for the Consulship in the next
elections.
And for those who fear the fact that the religion of Lucius Cornelius Sulla
is jewish and not a practicioner of the traditional roman religion, I say
the following. I regard the jewish L. C. Sulla and the christian M. M.
Audens as two of the best friends of the Religio Romana in Nova Roma. Out
from the respect they have for the Religio Romana, they have always asked
for advice to the Pontifices regarding the way of respecting the gods in
their activities as magistrates. Lucius Cornelius Sulla is a Roman and he
recognises the Religio Romana has an intrinsic part of roman society,
without which Nova Roma cannot be the true heir of Roma Antiqua. Lucius
Cornelius Sulla does not want to convert people to the Religio Romana,
neither is the Religio Romana compatible with "conversions". Lucius
Cornelius Sulla just wants the State to increase its concern for the Religio
Romana, and to work more to recover a tradition that is since long dormant
in the graves of the ancestors and the books of the antiquarians and poets
of old.
In the name of Roma, for the sake of Romanitas, vote Lucius Cornelius Sulla!
Di vos bene ament
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Declaration of Candidacy (Aedilis Plebis) |
| From: |
"The infernal reincarnation of Bill Gates" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:38:58 -0000 |
|
Salve Maximina,
Coming from you, I take this as a very nice compliment. Thank you
very much!
Vale bene,
S. Apollonius Draco
<< PETITOR AEDILIS PLEBIS >>
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Deadlines for candidacy? |
| From: |
"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:51:55 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@g...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Quick question. What is the time-frame for declaring candidacy for
office?
> What is the cut-off date for declaring that one is running for a
specific office?
Salvete,
There is no "legal" deadline in place for this. However, in order to
ensure adequate campaigning time, candidates should declare
themselves no later than Wednesday, November 28th. That will allow
all candidates time to both get their information to the Citizens,
but also allow for debating between candidates, etc.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Candidate T. Apollonius Cicatrix |
| From: |
antoniuscorvusseptimius@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:48:17 -0000 |
|
A. Corvus Septimius T. Apollonius Cicatrix BD
Since I have been interested in joining lists from other
provinces, I have come across instances of restrictions to those
outside of the province in which they wish to communicate with.ested
in joining lists from other provinces, I have come across instances of
restrictions to those outside of the province in which they wish to
communicate with.
I ask this question of you. Why must we segregate, when we
should be joining together? A restrictive list will only discourage
the the bond that all Nova Romans should feel.So, I encourage you to
reconsider your position on this, so that more (solid) votes could
count in your favor. Then again, I wouldnt because the first intent is
questionable as is....
vale, A. Corvus Septimius
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Endorsement by Antonius Gryllus Graecus |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:32:37 EST |
|
Antonius Gryllus Graecus writes:
>And for those who fear the fact that the religion of Lucius Cornelius
Sullais jewish and not a practicioner of the traditional roman religion, I
say the following. I regard the jewish L. C. Sulla and the christian M.
M.Audens as two of the best friends of the Religio Romana in Nova Roma.
Outfrom the respect they have for the Religio Romana, they have always
askedfor advice to the Pontifices regarding the way of respecting the gods
intheir activities as magistrates.
Salvete,
I certainly agree that both Marcus Minucius Audens and Lucius Cornelius Sulla
have proven themselves to be strong supporters of the Religio Romana, even
though both of them follow other paths as individuals.
It was certainly not my intent to raise any question about Sulla's personal
faith! I believe that if elected he would continue to be friendly to the
Religio as he has shown himself to be in the past. My concern was rather for
the *wording* of his religious platform. It seemed to me that it was lacking
in detail and also a little uncomplimentary to the religious work which is
being done already in Nova Roma.
By all means let Lucius Cornelius Sulla be involved in promoting the Religio.
However please don't let this happen at the expense of the dignitas of the
folks currently working within it. Let Sulla speak of positive new goals and
new ideas, rather than announce 'problems' that even as Consul he would not
legally be empowered to approach.
When Nova Roma was founded in March of 1998, the Religio Romana was little
more than a vision. There were less than a dozen people faithful to the Roman
Gods in contact with one another. There were *no* Roman religious websites,
no rites or rituals available, no instructions for how to become involved in
the Religio. There were a couple of Greek websites and organizations out
there - but nothing Roman.
Four years later the Religio Romana has grown considerably. Inside Nova Roma
the infrastructure of the Religo has continually grown and improved - and
this has sparked other endeavors *outside* of Nova Roma. The Religio has gone
from being a totally dead and forgotten faith to a living religious community
of a few hundred people.
In one sense the Religio is still in its infancy, and the gains above may
seem small when compared with the major religions of the world. However, this
is merely a *challenge* to build more in the future, rather than a 'problem'
or 'lack of focus' as Lucius Cornelius Sulla has said in his religious
platform.
I am of course quite sure that Sulla did not intend to belittle the efforts
that the Religio Romana has made to date. No doubt that when he announced
there are 'problems' with the Religio, his actual intent was to say that
there are many new and positive ways in which the Religio can grow from this
point onward. In this he would be correct - there are still a vast amount of
things to be done!
It was also good to hear Sulla's idea about making the Religio more prominent
in the Citizenship application form. That, happily, is something he is
empowered to change right now while he is still Censor. :)
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] RE: [CollegiumPontificum] Candidate Sulla's Religious Agenda |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:40:15 -0000 |
|
Salve Pontifex Maxime Cassi
Lucius Cornelius Sulla scripsit :
"4. The Religio needs to be focused. It needs to be properly defined that
thisis a fundamental and extremely important aspect of Nova Roma. I feel
this islacking. When people join up to Nova Roma they need to know that the
Religiois present and what new citizens and current citizens can expect."
M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:
" 1. The infrastructure of the Religio has been expanded through the
addition of new members of the Priesthood, the creation of an official
religious calendar, and establishment of Augural policy. "
Graecus scribit:
New members were added? What are the criteria for their approval? At this
time there is no official EXAM of knowledge about the Religio Romana, a fact
that does not allow us to be sure about the quality of the applicants.
As to the Augural policy I still do not see magistrates taking auspices, or
augurs inaugurating magistrates, or augurs watching the public events. I
admit that in a web based administration like that of NR these things are
difficult to implement. But then, in your opinion, what was the practical
effect of that augural policy? And what will be its effect in the future?
And has someone, already offered to research and recover as much as possible
the Libri Augurales and its rules of government, calling of comitia and
elections, etc., in other words the Augural Law?
M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:
" 2. The Religio Romana list has continued to grow and has remained an
excellent resource for our religious community."
Graecus scribit:
Yes, but the participation of priests is often limited to 2 or 3 who are
always the same, and who moreover correspond to those who present work done
(see below).
Moreover we see that several members join the list with a wrong idea about
the religio romana, which in fact may reveal a lack of information in the NR
site (see below).
M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:
" 3. The 'Pantheon' section of the Nova Roma website has been expanded
considerably. This year the amount of practical religious information
available to our Citizens has increased greatly. This new information
includes new Roman rituals, the basics of how to construct accurate Roman
rituals, how to set up a household altar (Lararium) and what ritual items
are necessary for household worship, etc. "
Graecus scribit:
True, though this year only two people have contributed: me and you. In the
past only 2 or 3 Pontifices contributed ate all. If all Pontifices were able
to contribute with research (I mean true scholarly oriented
reconstructionist research) every year, and to write good quality and well
supported (on original references and academic research) material about that
to be posted on the website, the Pantheon section would have grown much
more. Unfortunately only the two of us were able to coordinate our efforts
in order to present coordinated work with cross-reference and coherent
contents.
Much work is still needed and the proof is that people often get the wrong
picture of the religio romana. The proof is that many people still think
that the religio romana is the same as the greek religion, or comparing the
mythology with sacred scriptures, or claiming to worship the roman gods in
strange foreign ways (e.g. neopagan approaches like Wicca) while not
manifesting knowledge about the religio romana. And an example of this is
the ammount of spurious priesthood applications (e.g. candidates for the
priesthood of Bacchus !!!) that we receive in the Collegium Pontificum. Your
update of the priesthoods page is a good step, but it is not enough. People
must, first of all, know what the religio is, i.e. the cult of the roman
gods according to the traditional prescriptions established by Romulus and
Numa and kept throughout the roman timeline up to the end of the 4th century
AD. And maybe a change of statute of the foreign cults is also required,
including their removal from the official priesthood page (with the sole
exception of cults "adopted" into the official pantheon by consultation of
the Sibylline Books, such as Apollo, Aesculapius, Demeter-Ceres and Magna
Mater).
Moreover in my opinion, the Pantheon section should be filtered. Some
completely non-historical rites like those of the MTR can only mislead
people and contribute to the confusion between the religio romana and
anarchic unhistorical neo-pagan forms of worshiping the roman gods. Moreover
it contributes to keep serious researchers at a distance, for it mixes
historically based material with unhistorical or at least wrongly
constructed material.
M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:
"4. Thanks to the excellent long term efforts of Pontiff Graecus (and help
from our webmaster, Octavius) an interactive religious calendar has been put
up on the Nova Roma website. Now the Religio Romana sacred days are
instantly available to any Citizen, so that those who practice the Religio
can prepare for upcoming rites. "
Graecus scribit:
And Pontifex Lucius Equitius Cincinatus as well. But you must agree that
these are the same people who post to the Religio Romana list and among
those who have ever contributed to the Pantheon list. The majority of the
other Priests have never taken the initiative to divide the burden of the
state religion, and I dare to say that many of the sacerdotes have not
enough knowledge about the religio romana and think that their private rites
are enough to fulfil their duty as functionaries of the religio on behalf of
the state, on behalf of the community of roman citizens, of the SPQR. Whose
fauly is this? It depends. If it is the Collegium Pontificum which has the
duty to teach them, then the fault is of the Collegium Pontificum. If it was
their duty to reserach on the behald of the Collegium Pontificum, then they
are not working enough. Anyway, 2 or 3 people are not enough to research ALL
original sources, ALL academic research on those sources, and rebuild the
religio romana.
M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:
" 5. Perhaps most importantly, open Public Rituals have been begun within
Nova Roma. The Collegium Pontificum has begun holding 'live' rituals on some
of the major Sacred Days, in which Citizens can participate. This allows our
religious community to worship together even though we are challenged
geographically. Unfortunately the events of September 11 disrupted that
schedule, (and November is both scarce on Religio Holidays and is also a
busy time for NR with elections) but there will be a Public Saturnalia
Ritual going on in December, and ongoing public festivals after that. "
Graecus scribit:
This only happened twice. I admit that September 11 was a black day
concerning all aspects of NR administration. But once again, under your
dedicated and inspired initiative and leadership, only one or two more
people worked seriously for those projects.
M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:
> In addition to upcoming 'live' Public religious festivals, other
expansions are already in the works for this next year. The Religio Romana
> website is going to continue to be expanded significantly, and 'rites for
individuals' on the minor holidays will continue to be added to the
> interactive calendar. There is also going to be a big push to expand the
Priesthood and to assist the Priesthood in being more active. This will
> be especially helpful for some of the minor festivals to specific deities
under the auspices of some of our Sacerdotes Priests and
> Priestesses.
>I hope this assists you in some of your concerns about a 'lack of focus"
within the Religio Romana, candidate Sulla. If you have any questions, >or
would care to submit some of your ideas for expanding the Religio, please do
not hesitate to contact me or anyone in the Collegium >Pontificum.
Graecus scribit:
Exactly. That increased participation of priests in Nova Roma is exactly
what candidate Sulla was mentioning as one of his objectives. In the end you
agree with candidate Lucius Cornelius Sulla and I think and forecast that
you as Pontifex Maximus and Sulla as Consul will work well together to
restablish more ties between the government of the state and the religio
romana.
Vale bene
Graecus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Octavius on the Religious Agenda |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:52:04 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salvete Marce Cassi, Luci Corneli, Antoni Grylle, et alii,
> Sulla:
> However, Consul, I do believe that we have a problem in NR when it comes to
> the Religo. It was very much highlighted earlier last month I believe when
> we hadthe resignation of Caius Fabius who just discovered the Oath.
On this issue, I am in agreement with my fellow candidate for Consul.
We have had two recent incidents, which were caused by non-practitioners
of the Religio Romana failing to understand the status of the Religio
in Nova Roma.
The first of these was the resignation of Lucius Cornelius Dalmaticus,
who, without much forewarning, abruptly left, claiming that he "won't
allow blasphemy in [my house]". He had, prior to that, been an extremely
active and productive citizen - but he slowly came to the realization
that the goals of Nova Roma were at odds with his own personal beliefs.
(He also cited political infighting as a reason for leaving, but said
that "blasphemy" was the "last straw".)
Then, last week, Caius Fabius left. He had been a citizen for about
a year prior to that. What enraged him was the revised version of the
Lex Iunia calling for the Magistrate's oath. This was an odd thing to
suddenly take exception to -- for the oath has been a part of our tradition
for two years, and all that this new law specified was that it had to
be taken prior to assuming office - something that was previously
enforced by custom, if not law. Yet Caius Fabius called it
"repugnant" and "against the Constitution [of the USA]".
On his own mailing list, I challenged this assertation. I pointed out that
Nova Roma is a private organization, founded with a specific religious
purpose, and asked if he would consider the Knights of Columbus or the
Order of B'nai B'rith to be equally "repugnant" or "unconstitutional".
He chose not to answer.
Caius Fabius suffered from a misconception about Nova Roma's purpose
from the beginning. He expected to be able to take a leadership position
in a religious organization while being hostile to that religion!
We have someone on the web site's message board right now claiming that
"Based upon this thesis, the worship of Christ is a valid part of
the Religio Romano and thus of the culture of Nova Roma." While his
personal beliefs may permit this sort of mishmash (and there's certainly
nothing wrong with that), I believe that expanding the Religio Romana to
include worship of the gods of monotheistic faiths will cause a lack of
focus and cohesiveness, and will undo everything that our Pontifices
have accomplished.
This will happen again and again, unless we make it clear to new citizens
that the primary purpose of Nova Roma is the furtherance of the worship
of the Gods of Rome.
With the permission of the Censores, who have authority over new citizenship
applications, I will immediately add text to the application form advising
potential citizens that the Religio Romana is paramount, and that they
should join only if this goal is acceptable to them.
As Consul, I shall continue to make this a top priority. I am pleased
that my potential future colleague is in agreement on this issue.
> Cassius:
> Since the Oath has more to do with magistrates, laws and the election process
> than the Religio Romana itself, I'm not sure that saying this is a "Religio
> problem" is exactly accurate. However, I'm more than willing to give you the
> benefit of the doubt here. Exactly how do you believe the Religio *should*
> have dealt with informing Caius Fabius that there is religious content in the
> Magisterial Oath?
Caius Fabius' misunderstanding was not due to any flaws in the Religio
or errors by the Pontifices. He failed to realize the importance of
the Religio because of its seeming isolation. This can be overcome
by, in the seemingly-secular areas of the web site and in communications
on the mailing lists and from magistrates, emphasizing the importance
of the Gods in all that we do.
> Cassius:
> While I am certainly all for the Religio Romana being prominant, I must say
> that there is certainly a large amount of Religio content available to our
> Citizens already. It is in our Constitution, our Declaration, and our FAQ. We
> have TWO sections on the Religio in the main Nova Roma site, the "Pantheon"
> section, and also a separate section on the Priesthoods. Also, of course, the
> Religio festival days are regularly posted to the various lists.
All of this is good, and should continue. There will always be people like
Caius Fabius who simply don't bother to read what is in front of them.
We can, however, avoid some of these incidents by clearly indicating that
the Religio Romana has a special status in Nova Roma, and that it is
firmly supported by all of our magistrates. Emphasizing that on the
website will help somewhat - and, as Curator, I intend to do that
regardless of who becomes Consul.
> In short, the Religio IS represented prominently throughout the Nova Roma
> website and in our introductory messages. It's even on our slogan: "Dedicated
> to the restoration of Classical Roman religion, culture, and virtues." Just
> how more obvious can we get? ;)
Bigger font. :)
Valete,
M. Octavius Germanicus
Candidate for Consul.
--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Happy Thanksgiving Day! |
| From: |
Sextus Cornelius Cotta <cotta@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:57:39 -0600 |
|
Salve,
Happy Thanksgiving Day(to those citizens who observe it)!
Have a safe wonderful day with your family and relatives where ever you
are in Nova Roma.
Vale,
Sextus Cornelius Cotta
--
Legate Major, Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma
ICQ: 29580250
AIM: LegateMajor
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Clarification: Octavius on the Religious Agenda |
| From: |
trog99@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:34:01 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@c...> wrote:
> Salvete Marce Cassi, Luci Corneli, Antoni Grylle, et alii,
>
> > Sulla:
> > However, Consul, I do believe that we have a problem in NR when it
comes to
> > the Religo. It was very much highlighted earlier last month I
believe when
> > we hadthe resignation of Caius Fabius who just discovered the
Oath.
>
> On this issue, I am in agreement with my fellow candidate for
Consul.
> We have had two recent incidents, which were caused by
non-practitioners
> of the Religio Romana failing to understand the status of the
Religio
> in Nova Roma.
>
> The first of these was the resignation of Lucius Cornelius
Dalmaticus,
> who, without much forewarning, abruptly left, claiming that he
"won't
> allow blasphemy in [my house]".
Salve Marce Octavi: This post is for clarification of your statement
above. I just want everyone to be sure of the facts, and I in no way
intend to jump on your good intentions.
Dalmaticus did not resign because the religio, in his estimation is
considered by him to be blasphemous. He was a citizen for longer than
both you or I, and has a good understanding of the status of the
religio.
Allow me to quote from his letter of resignation :
After citing the reason for his resignation as basically a reaction to
a culmination of what he felt were insulting remarks made toward
Christians, Christianity on the list, he wrote:
"The final straw was a few days ago, when someone wrote in a post"
(amputatio)...." that they ran missionaries off by telling them
proudly that they will not accept blasphemy in their house. Well, I
won't accept blasphemy in mine, either".
So, he didn't leave for any kind of feeling of the Relgio being
blasphemous; his statement about blasphemy in his house, was in
response to the poster's: that one person can call another's religion
a blashphemy quite easily, as in 'tit for tat'. Unfortunately, it
makes for nothing but bad feelings....
I just wanted everyone to know the facts.
He was my brother, after all :) I had a chance to get to know him
very well.
Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia
He had, prior to that, been an
extremely
> active and productive citizen - but he slowly came to the
realization
> that the goals of Nova Roma were at odds with his own personal
beliefs.
> (He also cited political infighting as a reason for leaving, but
said
> that "blasphemy" was the "last straw".)
>
> Then, last week, Caius Fabius left. He had been a citizen for about
> a year prior to that. What enraged him was the revised version of
the
> Lex Iunia calling for the Magistrate's oath. This was an odd thing
to
> suddenly take exception to -- for the oath has been a part of our
tradition
> for two years, and all that this new law specified was that it had
to
> be taken prior to assuming office - something that was previously
> enforced by custom, if not law. Yet Caius Fabius called it
> "repugnant" and "against the Constitution [of the USA]".
>
> On his own mailing list, I challenged this assertation. I pointed
out that
> Nova Roma is a private organization, founded with a specific
religious
> purpose, and asked if he would consider the Knights of Columbus or
the
> Order of B'nai B'rith to be equally "repugnant" or
"unconstitutional".
> He chose not to answer.
>
> Caius Fabius suffered from a misconception about Nova Roma's purpose
> from the beginning. He expected to be able to take a leadership
position
> in a religious organization while being hostile to that religion!
>
> We have someone on the web site's message board right now claiming
that
> "Based upon this thesis, the worship of Christ is a valid part of
> the Religio Romano and thus of the culture of Nova Roma." While his
> personal beliefs may permit this sort of mishmash (and there's
certainly
> nothing wrong with that), I believe that expanding the Religio
Romana to
> include worship of the gods of monotheistic faiths will cause a lack
of
> focus and cohesiveness, and will undo everything that our Pontifices
> have accomplished.
>
> This will happen again and again, unless we make it clear to new
citizens
> that the primary purpose of Nova Roma is the furtherance of the
worship
> of the Gods of Rome.
>
> With the permission of the Censores, who have authority over new
citizenship
> applications, I will immediately add text to the application form
advising
> potential citizens that the Religio Romana is paramount, and that
they
> should join only if this goal is acceptable to them.
>
> As Consul, I shall continue to make this a top priority. I am
pleased
> that my potential future colleague is in agreement on this issue.
>
> > Cassius:
> > Since the Oath has more to do with magistrates, laws and the
election process
> > than the Religio Romana itself, I'm not sure that saying this is a
"Religio
> > problem" is exactly accurate. However, I'm more than willing to
give you the
> > benefit of the doubt here. Exactly how do you believe the Religio
*should*
> > have dealt with informing Caius Fabius that there is religious
content in the
> > Magisterial Oath?
>
> Caius Fabius' misunderstanding was not due to any flaws in the
Religio
> or errors by the Pontifices. He failed to realize the importance of
> the Religio because of its seeming isolation. This can be overcome
> by, in the seemingly-secular areas of the web site and in
communications
> on the mailing lists and from magistrates, emphasizing the
importance
> of the Gods in all that we do.
>
> > Cassius:
> > While I am certainly all for the Religio Romana being prominant, I
must say
> > that there is certainly a large amount of Religio content
available to our
> > Citizens already. It is in our Constitution, our Declaration, and
our FAQ. We
> > have TWO sections on the Religio in the main Nova Roma site, the
"Pantheon"
> > section, and also a separate section on the Priesthoods. Also, of
course, the
> > Religio festival days are regularly posted to the various lists.
>
> All of this is good, and should continue. There will always be
people like
> Caius Fabius who simply don't bother to read what is in front of
them.
> We can, however, avoid some of these incidents by clearly indicating
that
> the Religio Romana has a special status in Nova Roma, and that it is
> firmly supported by all of our magistrates. Emphasizing that on the
> website will help somewhat - and, as Curator, I intend to do that
> regardless of who becomes Consul.
>
> > In short, the Religio IS represented prominently throughout the
Nova Roma
> > website and in our introductory messages. It's even on our slogan:
"Dedicated
> > to the restoration of Classical Roman religion, culture, and
virtues." Just
> > how more obvious can we get? ;)
>
> Bigger font. :)
>
> Valete,
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Candidate for Consul.
>
> --
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
> http://www.konoko.net/~haase/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Candidature for Tribunus Plebis |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:26:01 +0100 |
|
Ave Gnae!
Allow me to ask you some questions about a more concrete program you want to see realised.
I took from your mail:
I. To provide a faithful protection for anyone in need, under the
guidance of the Constitution of Nova Roma.
CPG dixit: What kind of protection do you have in mind?
II. To promote a higher level of participation of all citizens, taking
a preferent interest in the participation of our plebeian cives.
CPG dixit: This problem is well known to all active Romani. What are you planning to do about it? How are you going to make a distinction between patricii and plaebei?
III. To help build our Republic by following the historical Roman
tradition as long as it can be done without unbearable clashes with
modern sensibilities.
CPG dixit: Again, can you be more specific?
IV. To cooperate with my fellow maigistates in the best interest of the
Republic, over personal interests.
CPG dixit: I do not doubt your good intentions, but since this is a very important function, I would like to see how serious you have been preparing this and what points are really important to you...
Vale optime in pace deorum & good luck!!!
Caius Puteus Germanicus
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
Rogator
Sodalitas Egressus Section Chief for Germania Inferior (Western Europe)
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Comitia Centuriata now open |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:13:54 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salvete Cives,
The Comitia Centuriata is now open for voting on the three laws
recently proposed. You may enter it here:
http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/
Valete, Octavius.
--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
Candidate for Consul.
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Candidate T. Apollonius Cicatrix |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:27:41 +0000 (GMT) |
|
Salve A. Corvus Septimius!
May I please ask to which part of my announcement you
exactly refer? I don't remember having said anything
about restrictive lists...
Vale bene
--- antoniuscorvusseptimius@-------- wrote: > A.
Corvus Septimius T. Apollonius Cicatrix BD
>
>
> Since I have been interested in joining
> lists from other
> provinces, I have come across instances of
> restrictions to those
> outside of the province in which they wish to
> communicate with.ested
> in joining lists from other provinces, I have come
> across instances of
> restrictions to those outside of the province in
> which they wish to
> communicate with.
> I ask this question of you. Why must we
> segregate, when we
> should be joining together? A restrictive list will
> only discourage
> the the bond that all Nova Romans should feel.So, I
> encourage you to
> reconsider your position on this, so that more
> (solid) votes could
> count in your favor. Then again, I wouldnt because
> the first intent is
> questionable as is....
>
> vale, A. Corvus
> Septimius
>
>
>
=====
Vote Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis!
____________________________
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
civis Novae Romae
____________________________
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata now open |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:27:55 -0600 (CST) |
|
My apologies; that is *tomorrow*.
Valete, Octavius.
>
> Salvete Cives,
>
> The Comitia Centuriata is now open for voting on the three laws
> recently proposed. You may enter it here:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/
>
> Valete, Octavius.
>
> --
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Curator Araneum et Senator
> Candidate for Consul.
> http://www.konoko.net/~haase/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Birthday Greetings |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:01:14 +0000 |
|
(((((((((((((((((((HAPPY BIRTHDAY))))))))))))))))))))
TO
APPIUS TULLIUS MARCELLUS CATO
ROGATOR NOVA ROMA
PROCURATOR CANADA ORIENTALIS PROVINCIA
Have a fantastic day, Cato! And many, many thanks for all you do!!
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Graecus-Cassius Religio discussion (long) |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:11:13 EST |
|
Antonio Gryllus Graecus writes:
>>M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:" 1. The infrastructure of the Religio has
been expanded through the addition of new members of the Priesthood, the
creation of an official religious calendar, and establishment of Augural
policy.
>Graecus scribit: New members were added?
Cassius:
Yes, you know they were. You voted on them yourself as a Pontiff.
>Graecus:
What are the criteria for their approval?
Cassius:
The criteria for priesthood may be found at the following link:
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/guidelines.html
As a Pontiff, Graecus, you know very well the evaluation process for
priesthood candidates. Firstly, the candidate must describe themselves and
their background fully, and also list out what they've read and what they
know about the Religio. Their prospects for gaining *more* knowledge through
personal research are also evaluated. And, of course, they are asked to give
an overview of how they intend to build the worship of the deity they wish to
serve within both the Religio Romana and Nova Roma.
Once that basic application is sent to the Pontiffs, the Collegium goes over
the information and any questions are raised. Specific questions are asked of
the candidate if there is anything unclear. Often the candidate is asked to
provide a good deal more information if there is a question concerning their
knowledge or religious intent.
After this process the Collegium votes on each candidate. If a candidate
cannot be accepted the reasons for it are explained - as is what work they
would need to do before they could be accepted. (Usually this includes more
reading and/or direct religious ritual experience.) At this point in time our
present standards may well be as much as the Roman community can handle...
about 40% of candidates are not accepted and are asked to reapply when they
have more knowledge of and experience in the Religio.
>Graecus:
> At this time there is no official EXAM of knowledge about the Religio
Romana, a fact that does not allow us to be sure about the quality of the
applicants.
Cassius:
At present there is no *curriculum* to give an exam on. That is a challenge
in itself, since there is no unified source of sacred information for the
Religio Romana. It is a daunting prospect - the Religio Romana was perhaps
the largest religion of antiquity! Yet as you know, the Collegium Pontificum
has recently discussed building such a curriculum. My guess is that it would
have to include both a reading list from primary ancient sources, *and* text
written by the Collegium itself. That's something I look forward to
participating in during the next year when I am no longer Consul.
>Graecus:
>As to the Augural policy I still do not see magistrates taking auspices,
Cassius:
Really? Augur Germanicus has taken auspices before the various Comitiae and
Senate meetings, as has augur Cincinnatus. As for magistrates, I myself took
auspices before calling this current Comitiae meeting to order. Did you not
see the announcement?
>Graecus:
>or augurs inaugurating magistrates, or augurs watching the public events. I
admit that in a web based administration like that of NR these things are
difficult to implement. But then, in your opinion, what was the practical
effect of that augural policy? And what will be its effect in the future?
Cassius:
Well, the *immediate* effect has been that there have been auguries taken
before all the major convocations this year. That is far better than we did
last year, so I would say that the policy has been at least a moderate
success. As to the future, I believe there will be a continual expansion of
the role of Augurs within Nova Roma, particularly when more have been
approved and we have more than two augurs to cover the entire nation.
>Graecus:
And has someone, already offered to research and recover as much as possible
the Libri Augurales and its rules of government, calling of comitia and
elections, etc., in other words the Augural Law?
Cassius:
Certainly some of this work has been ongoing by our Augurs themselves.
(Although this has been hampered over the last couple of years by two Augurs
quitting Citizenship entirely, thereby *halving* our College of Augurs.) No
doubt more work needs to be done in regard to this subject, as is needed in
ALL areas of the Religio Romana as it continues to grow.
>>M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:" 2. The Religio Romana list has continued to
grow and has remained an excellent resource for our religious community."
>Graecus scribit:Yes, but the participation of priests is often limited to 2
or 3 who are always the same, and who moreover correspond to those who
present work done(see below).Moreover we see that several members join the
list with a wrong idea about the religio romana, which in fact may reveal a
lack of information in the NRsite (see below).
Cassius:
There are certainly more than two or three people posting to the Religio
list, as its archives will show. As to folks having the 'wrong' idea about
the Religio, I must point out that the goal of the Priesthood in Nova Roma is
to promote as historically accurate a *public* Religio Romana as possible. We
of course promote reconstructionist Religio on all levels, but there is of
course a clear division between 'public' and 'private' religion in Nova Roma.
The Religio Romana list is a place to discuss both public and personal
religious ideas.
>>M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:" 3. The 'Pantheon' section of the Nova Roma
website has been expanded considerably. This year the amount of practical
religious information available to our Citizens has increased greatly. This
new information includes new Roman rituals, the basics of how to construct
accurate Roman rituals, how to set up a household altar (Lararium) and what
ritual items are necessary for household worship, etc.
"Graecus scribit:True, though this year only two people have contributed: me
and you. In the past only 2 or 3 Pontifices contributed ate all.
Cassius:
Of course you refer to contribution of *written documents* rather than
participation in the Collegium Pontificum itself. When Nova Roma was founded
the criteria for the Collegium Pontificum was pretty basic - to create a body
of knowledgeable and interested people to help coordinate the construction of
the Religio.
This did not necessarily mandate that all Pontiffs be prolific writers and
creators of religious information - much of that was expected to be done by
the various Priesthoods as part of the service to their Gods. For instance,
Pontiff Felix is dyslexic - while his knowledge of the Religio is excellent,
I assure you he will not be contributing thousand-word articles to the Nova
Roma website anytime soon.
>Graecus:
If all Pontifices were able to contribute with research (I mean true
scholarly oriented reconstructionist research) every year, and to write good
quality and well supported (on original references and academic research)
material about that to be posted on the website, the Pantheon section would
have grown much more.
Cassius:
That would be even more true if the various Priesthoods were to contribute
scholarly information about the worship of the various deities they serve.
And, as far as I am concerned, interested Citizens without formal position
would be most welcome to contribute as well if they have an interest.
>Graecus:
Unfortunately only the two of us were able to coordinate our efforts in order
to present coordinated work with cross-reference and coherent contents.Much
work is still needed and the proof is that people often get the wrong picture
of the religio romana. The proof is that many people still think that the
religio romana is the same as the greek religion, or comparing the
mythology with sacred scriptures, or claiming to worship the roman gods in
strange foreign ways (e.g. neopagan approaches like Wicca) while not
manifesting knowledge about the religio romana.
Cassius:
I again point out the clear division between 'public' and 'private' religion
in Nova Roma. As a Pontiff, I work only with historical reconstruction in the
Religio on a public basis. In private, I myself often work with the Roman
gods in "strange foreign ways!" As do many of our Citizens who come from
backgrounds such as Celtic, Asatru, etc.
>Graecus:
>And an example of this is the ammount of spurious priesthood applications
(e.g. candidates for thepriesthood of Bacchus !!!) that we receive in the
Collegium Pontificum.
Cassius:
And I will happily point out here, as I did in the Collegium, that our own
Priesthoods section of the Nova Roma website very clearly holds open a vacant
position for a Priesthood of Bacchus at:
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/priests_and_priesthoods.html
I believe that particular listing has been in Nova Roma since day one, and
was put in by Flavius Vedius Germanicus when the original website was
created. No wonder someone applied for it!
>Graecus:
>Your update of the priesthoods page is a good step, but it is not enough.
People must, first of all, know what the religio is, i.e. the cult of the
roman gods according to the traditional prescriptions established by Romulus
and Numa and kept throughout the roman timeline up to the end of the 4th
centuryAD.
Cassius:
A complete definition of what the Religio Romana is about is given in the
"Declaration of Roman Religion" located at:
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/declaration_religio.html
>Graecus
>And maybe a change of statute of the foreign cults is also
required,including their removal from the official priesthood page (with the
sole exception of cults "adopted" into the official pantheon by consultation
ofthe Sibylline Books, such as Apollo, Aesculapius, Demeter-Ceres and
MagnaMater).
Cassius:
I am afraid I have always disagreed with this idea. The Religio Romana in
antiquity was a syncretistic religion - inclusive rather than exclusive. The
Religio was mixed with many other religions and still retained its power and
individual character. Not only would we be abandoning historical precedent by
cutting out the Provincial worship which was clearly a part of the Roman
world - we would also be severely limiting our potential future.
There are many thousands of pagans out there who are involved with
spiritualities such as Celtic, Asatru, Egyptian, etc. Do we propose to
pronounce that those pagan faiths, part of the ancient Roman world for
centuries, have no place in the modern Roman world? That they are "strange
foreign ways" to be shunned as unworthy of our community?
As a final word on the subject, let me refer you to section VI Paragraph B of
the Nova Roma Constitution:
"The priesthoods of the Gods of Rome shall be organized as closely as
practical on the ancient Roman model. The institutions of the Religio Romana
shall have authority over religious matters on the level of the state and
nation only, maintaining the religious rites of the State and providing
resources pertaining to the Religio Romana which Citizens may make use of if
they choose. Nova Roma shall approach all other religions with a syncretistic
outlook, offering friendship to all paths which acknowledge the right of
those who practice and honor the Religio Romana to do so and respect the
beliefs thereof."
>Graecus:
>Moreover in my opinion, the Pantheon section should be filtered. Some
completely non-historical rites like those of the MTR can only mislead people
and contribute to the confusion between the religio romana and anarchic
unhistorical neo-pagan forms of worshiping the roman gods.
Cassius:
Can you name some other rites you would like to remove from availability to
the Citizens of Nova Roma?
>Graecus:
>Moreover it contributes to keep serious researchers at a distance, for it
mixes historically based material with unhistorical or at least wrongly
constructed material.
Cassius:
There is something even more profound that tends to keep scholarly
researchers away, treatment of the Religio Romana as a living modern religion
rather than as a 'dead' ancient religion. The general academic opinion is
that the study of the Religio Romana is a fine thing so long as it is some
thing from long ago that people 'used' to do. The concept of people today
having real religious feeling toward the Gods is foreign to the majority of
scholars, who tend to be monotheistic in their own views.
>>M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:"4. Thanks to the excellent long term efforts
of Pontiff Graecus (and help from our webmaster, Octavius) an interactive
religious calendar has been put up on the Nova Roma website. Now the Religio
Romana sacred days are instantly available to any Citizen, so that those who
practice the Religio can prepare for upcoming rites.
>Graecus scribit: And Pontifex Lucius Equitius Cincinatus as well.
Cassius:
Yes indeed! Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus was a huge help in the project, don't
know why I forgot to mention him. (Lucky for me he's away for a couple days
spending Thanksgiving Day with family!) ;)
>Graecus:
> But you must agree that these are the same people who post to the Religio
Romana list and among those who have ever contributed to the Pantheon list.
The majority of theother Priests have never taken the initiative to divide
the burden of the state religion, and I dare to say that many of the
sacerdotes have not enough knowledge about the religio romana and think that
their private rites are enough to fulfil their duty as functionaries of the
religio on behalf of the state, on behalf of the community of roman citizens,
of the SPQR. Whose fauly is this? It depends. If it is the Collegium
Pontificum which has the duty to teach them, then the fault is of the
Collegium Pontificum. If it was their duty to reserach on the behald of the
Collegium Pontificum, then they are not working enough. Anyway, 2 or 3 people
are not enough to research ALL original sources, ALL academic research on
those sources, and rebuild the religio romana.
Cassius:
It is certainly true that the Religio Romana in Nova Roma faces the same
problems with participation that our magistracies, Sodalitas groups,
Provinciae and Senate struggle with. This happens in *all* purely volunteer
organizations so Nova Roma is not unique in having to deal with it. The
challenge is to encourage people to be more involved in the future, rather
than to punish them for not being as involved in the past as we could wish.
>M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:" 5. Perhaps most importantly, open Public
Rituals have been begun within Nova Roma. The Collegium Pontificum has begun
holding 'live' rituals on some of the major Sacred Days, in which Citizens
can participate. This allows our religious community to worship together even
though we are challenged geographically. Unfortunately the events of
September 11 disrupted that schedule, (and November is both scarce on Religio
Holidays and is also a busy time for NR with elections) but there will be a
Public Saturnalia Ritual going on in December, and ongoing public festivals
after that.
"Graecus scribit:This only happened twice.
Cassius:
Three times actually. Two public rites held on traditional festival days, and
one rite of propitiation held after during the public time of mourning in
Nova Roma decreed by my Co-consul, Flavius Vedius Germanicus. Not too bad in
the two month period since the public ritual program was started.
>Graecus:
> I admit that September 11 was a black day concerning all aspects of NR
administration. But once again, under your dedicated and inspired initiative
and leadership, only one or two more people worked seriously for those
projects.
Cassius:
Since public rites are a new thing for Nova Roma, the three rites held so far
were announced fairly quickly. There wasn't much preparation time and there
were definitely people who wished to participate publicly but could not due
to scheduling problems. Even so we had a good turn out - and the events were
certainly enough of a success to warrant continuing such rites in the future.
(By the way, Graecus, even if I am disagreeing with some of your points here,
I am *very* impressed with the wonderful ritual work you did for the public
rites held so far. That was excellent work on behalf of the Religio that has
impressed many.)
>>M. Cassius Iulianus scripsit:> In addition to upcoming 'live' Public
religious festivals, other expansions are already in the works for this next
year. The Religio Romana website is going to continue to be expanded
significantly, and 'rites for individuals' on the minor holidays will
continue to be added to the interactive calendar. There is also going to be a
big push to expand the Priesthood and to assist the Priesthood in being more
active. This will be especially helpful for some of the minor festivals to
specific deities under the auspices of some of our Sacerdotes Priests and
Priestesses. I hope this assists you in some of your concerns about a 'lack
of focus" within the Religio Romana, candidate Sulla.
Graecus scribit: Exactly. That increased participation of priests in Nova
Roma is exactly what candidate Sulla was mentioning as one of his objectives.
Cassius:
As far as I am aware, the Consuls in Nova Roma have absolutely zero legal
influence over the internal workings of the Religio Romana. Not that the
Collegium Pontificum would have a problem working with Sulla if he were to
propose specific suggestions!
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] RE: [ReligioRomana] Graecus-Cassius Religio discussion (long) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:09:08 -0000 |
|
Salve Cassi Pontifex Maxime
Firstly I'd like to state that I share your constructive view of the Religio
Romana. What I want is to improve what already exists rather than making a
revolution. I just share Sulla's view that the link between the public life
of Nova Roma and the Religio Romana must be more tight, specially in what
regards the institutions of the state. And this must be worked in all
levels. More about this below.
>Graecus:
> At this time there is no official EXAM of knowledge about the Religio
Romana, a fact that does not allow us to be sure about the quality of the
applicants.
> Cassius:
> At present there is no *curriculum* to give an exam on. That is a
challenge in itself, since there is no unified source of sacred information
for
> the Religio Romana. It is a daunting prospect - the Religio Romana was
perhaps the largest religion of antiquity! Yet as you know, the
> Collegium Pontificum has recently discussed building such a curriculum. My
guess is that it would have to include both a reading list from
> primary ancient sources, *and* text written by the Collegium itself.
That's something I look forward to participating in during the next year
when
> I am no longer Consul.
Graecus:
And I am eager to keep working with you and the rest of our colleagues on
this and other important matters.
>Graecus:
>As to the Augural policy I still do not see magistrates taking auspices,
> Cassius:
> Really? Augur Germanicus has taken auspices before the various Comitiae
and Senate meetings, as has augur Cincinnatus. As for
> magistrates, I myself took auspices before calling this current Comitiae
meeting to order. Did you not see the announcement?
Graecus:
Then Augur Germanicus should know that according to the Augural Law, no
auspices are taken before convening the Senate. Only the Comitia require
that procedure. Secondly, I wonder how the auspices were taken as I saw no
posting about this. Did Consul Germanicus used the 'tripudium'? Did he
observe some eagle on his left? In ancient times the auspices were public
and taken in the presence of the citizens. While this is impossible to
implement at the moment, at least a posting describing the events would be
greatly appreciated.
>Graecus:
> If all Pontifices were able to contribute with research (I mean true
scholarly oriented reconstructionist research) every year, and to write good
> quality and well supported (on original references and academic research)
material about that to be posted on the website, the Pantheon
> section would have grown much more.
> Cassius:
> That would be even more true if the various Priesthoods were to contribute
scholarly information about the worship of the various deities they
> serve. And, as far as I am concerned, interested Citizens without formal
position would be most welcome to contribute as well if they have an
> interest.
Graecus:
Then why don't they contribute?
>Graecus :
>And maybe a change of statute of the foreign cults is also
required,including their removal from the official priesthood page (with the
sole
> exception of cults "adopted" into the official pantheon by consultation
ofthe Sibylline Books, such as Apollo, Aesculapius, Demeter-Ceres and
> MagnaMater).
> Cassius:
> I am afraid I have always disagreed with this idea. The Religio Romana in
antiquity was a syncretistic religion - inclusive rather than exclusive.
> The Religio was mixed with many other religions and still retained its
power and individual character. Not only would we be abandoning
> historical precedent by cutting out the Provincial worship which was
clearly a part of the Roman world - we would also be severely limiting our
> potential future.
Graecus:
Then, with all respect, it is your statement that is confusing private with
public religion. I agree that people are free to worship the gods as they
wish at the home. Nevertheless OFFICIAL PRIESTHOODS of the state should be
limited to and FOCUSED ON the gods and cults of the OFFICIAL pantheon. It is
this what I am saying and I think Sulla means the same when he talks about
"focus". And this is in accordance with historical precedent, for I don't
recall the state being responsible for the temples and priests of Bacchus
(who in fact had no temple), Isis or Iuppiter Dolichenus, or even other
provincial deities. Those communities were established as private
'sodalitates' which were ALLOWED (or not) but not MANAGED by the state.
> There are many thousands of pagans out there who are involved with
spiritualities such as Celtic, Asatru, Egyptian, etc. Do we propose to
> pronounce that those pagan faiths, part of the ancient Roman world for
centuries, have no place in the modern Roman world? That they are
> "strange foreign ways" to be shunned as unworthy of our community?
> As a final word on the subject, let me refer you to section VI Paragraph B
of the Nova Roma Constitution:
> "The priesthoods of the Gods of Rome shall be organized as closely as
practical on the ancient Roman model. The institutions of the Religio
> Romana shall have authority over religious matters on the level of the
state and nation only, maintaining the religious rites of the State and
> providing resources pertaining to the Religio Romana which Citizens may
make use of if they choose. Nova Roma shall approach all other
> religions with a syncretistic outlook, offering friendship to all paths
which acknowledge the right of those who practice and honor the Religio
> Romana to do so and respect the beliefs thereof."
Graecus:
What I am saying is: let each person practice whatever private cult she
wants. But let the priesthoods of the state be confined to the official
pantheon. This does not violate in any way the constitution.
>Graecus:
>Moreover in my opinion, the Pantheon section should be filtered. Some
completely non-historical rites like those of the MTR can only mislead
> people and contribute to the confusion between the religio romana and
anarchic unhistorical neo-pagan forms of worshiping the roman gods.
> Cassius:
> Can you name some other rites you would like to remove from availability
to the Citizens of Nova Roma?
Graecus:
Frankly no. I think that the MTR rites are the only ones that deserve being
retrieved. The others must only be improved (mine included of course).
>Graecus:
>Moreover it contributes to keep serious researchers at a distance, for it
mixes historically based material with unhistorical or at least wrongly
> constructed material.
> Cassius:
> There is something even more profound that tends to keep scholarly
researchers away, treatment of the Religio Romana as a living modern
> religion rather than as a 'dead' ancient religion. The general academic
opinion is that the study of the Religio Romana is a fine thing so long as
> it is some thing from long ago that people 'used' to do. The concept of
people today having real religious feeling toward the Gods is foreign to
> the majority of scholars, who tend to be monotheistic in their own views.
Graecus:
Yes, but to mix true research with anarchic invention is not a good way to
prove that we know our job and that we are serious. In ancient times that
Pontifices had to be experts about the Libri Pontificales and the Augurs had
to be experts on the Libri Augurales. Nowadays, what remains from those
books is written in the books of ancient writers like Livius, Ovidius,
Tacitus, Cicero! From this comes that both the Pontifices and the Augurs
must be experts on these works, which includes both the original and the
academic research performed about the original.
> Cassius:
> As far as I am aware, the Consuls in Nova Roma have absolutely zero legal
influence over the internal workings of the Religio Romana. Not
> that the Collegium Pontificum would have a problem working with Sulla if
he were to propose specific suggestions!
Graecus:
The Consuls can provide a more tight link between the Collegium Pontificum
and Collegium Augurum and the magistracies, which includes providing input
to those Collegia about their needs and requests for information about their
activities as magistrates, as well as participation in terms of the welfare
of the state and enforcement of the observance of the state religion in the
institutions of the state.
Vale bene
Graecus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Octavius on the religious agenda |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:32:36 EST |
|
>>Sulla: However, Consul, I do believe that we have a problem in NR when it
comes to the Religo. It was very much highlighted earlier last month I
believe when we hadthe resignation of Caius Fabius who just discovered the
Oath.
>Octavius:
>On this issue, I am in agreement with my fellow candidate for Consul.We
have had two recent incidents, which were caused by non-practitionersof the
Religio Romana failing to understand the status of the Religioin Nova Roma.
Cassius:
As it turns out *neither* of these incidents had much of anything to do with
the Religio Romana presented on the Nova Roma website. However, if they had,
we would not be having a "problem with the Religio" itself, but rather a
problem with how religious information is presented to new Citizens on the
website.
Octavius:
The first of these was the resignation of Lucius Cornelius Dalmaticus, who,
without much forewarning, abruptly left, claiming that he "won't allow
blasphemy in [my house]". He had, prior to that, been an extremely active
and productive citizen - but he slowly came to the realization that the goals
of Nova Roma were at odds with his own personal beliefs.(He also cited
political infighting as a reason for leaving, but said that "blasphemy" was
the "last straw".)
Cassius:
As Pompeia Strabo has pointed out, Lucius Cornelius Dalmaticus' issue over
"blasphemy" was between himself and another Citizen, rather than controversy
the Religio Romana itself or religious information presented on the Nova Roma
website.
Octavius:
Then, last week, Caius Fabius left. He had been a citizen for about a year
prior to that. What enraged him was the revised version of the Lex Iunia
calling for the Magistrate's oath. This was an odd thing to suddenly take
exception to -- for the oath has been a part of our tradition for two years,
and all that this new law specified was that it had to be taken prior to
assuming office - something that was previously enforced by custom, if not
law. Yet Caius Fabius called it "repugnant" and "against the Constitution
[of the USA]".
Cassius:
Caius Fabius had *several* problems with Nova Roma. He argued with my
co-consul and I over Nova Roma's copyright on our flag, he argued over the
Religio, over politics, etc. When he left all I could think of to say was:
"If he saw Nova Roma doing anything at all, not only was that thing instantly
dead wrong - it was also deeply insulting to him personally on an individual
level."
Octavius:
On his own mailing list, I challenged this assertation. I pointed out
thatNova Roma is a private organization, founded with a specific religious
purpose, and asked if he would consider the Knights of Columbus or theOrder
of B'nai B'rith to be equally "repugnant" or "unconstitutional".He chose not
to answer.
Caius Fabius suffered from a misconception about Nova Roma's purpose from the
beginning. He expected to be able to take a leadership position in a
religious organization while being hostile to that religion!
Cassius:
I agree. Folks who do not practice the Religio Romana are of course as
welcome to ascend the Cursus Honorum here - the only thing asked of them is
tolerance. I have great doubts that Caius Fabius could have manifested
anything like tolerance.
Octavius:
We have someone on the web site's message board right now claiming that"Based
upon this thesis, the worship of Christ is a valid part of the Religio Romano
and thus of the culture of Nova Roma." While hispersonal beliefs may permit
this sort of mishmash (and there's certainlynothing wrong with that), I
believe that expanding the Religio Romana to include worship of the gods of
monotheistic faiths will cause a lack of focus and cohesiveness, and will
undo everything that our Pontifices have accomplished.
Cassisus:
While we certainly have all possible respect for monotheistic faiths, to
officially include them in Nova Roma would violate our organizational
charter. Our reason for existing is specifically to be the heirs of the Pagan
government of Rome - which was deposed by the Emperor Constantine and his
Byzantine successors. (The Pagan government of course founded Rome in its
beginnings, and argued for the Gods to the last through such personages as
the Emperor Julian and Senator Symmachus.)
If we were to include the monotheistic religions officially we would abrogate
our political and cultural claims as the heir to the pagan Western Roman
Empire . There is of course already a Roman heir to the
christian-eastern-Byzantine Roman empire - modern Italy which is presided
over culturally and spiritually by the Vatican.
Those points aside, it would destroy the Religio to open Nova Roma up to
competition from religious systems which own the entire rest of the world,
and have several million times more people and resources than the Religio now
possesses. We very much need Nova Roma as the one 'safe haven' in the world
where the Religio can exist.
>Octavius:
This will happen again and again, unless we make it clear to new citizens
that the primary purpose of Nova Roma is the furtherance of the worshipof the
Gods of Rome.
Cassius:
I happily admit that the Religio was the reason NR was founded, and of course
there is no one more enthusiastic about the Religio Romana than myself.
(Well, perhaps Graecus, but he's a more passionate person by nature I think!)
However, it seems that it couldn't hurt to state the Religio information
more clearly yet *not* dismiss our cultural, and historical aspects. We must
remember that people of all faiths are welcome, and that some of our Citizens
are not involved in religion at all.
Octavius:
With the permission of the Censores, who have authority over new
citizenship applications, I will immediately add text to the application form
advising potential citizens that the Religio Romana is paramount, and that
they should join only if this goal is acceptable to them.
Cassius:
I must say that I would prefer to word that just a little differently. I feel
it should be possible to stress the importance (and permanence!) of the
Relgio without making it sound that our other aims are secondary at best. If
you don't mind I'd like an opportunity to discuss this with the Collegium
Pontificum, so that a recommendation can be made to the Censors, (or the
Senate).
In essence, I personally would like our message to read : "Please do note
that the Religio Romana is an integral part of Roman society, and that the
religious aspects of Roman culture will continually be present in Nova Roma"
rather than "Remember, this is all about the Religio, and the rest of our
goals are just window dressing for our religious aims." I assert that the
first statement is true, while the second is not.
Octavius:
As Consul, I shall continue to make this a top priority. I am pleased that
my potential future colleague is in agreement on this issue.
Cassius:
I'm pleased about all the attention for the Religio myself, especially if the
campaign topics can be devoted to positive ideas for the future. ;)
> Cassius: > Since the Oath has more to do with magistrates, laws and the
election process > than the Religio Romana itself, I'm not sure that saying
this is a "Religio > problem" is exactly accurate. However, I'm more than
willing to give you the > benefit of the doubt here. Exactly how do you
believe the Religio *should* > have dealt with informing Caius Fabius that
there is religious content in the > Magisterial Oath?
>Octavius:
Caius Fabius' misunderstanding was not due to any flaws in the Religioor
errors by the Pontifices. He failed to realize the importance of the Religio
because of its seeming isolation. This can be overcome by, in the
seemingly-secular areas of the web site and in communications on the mailing
lists and from magistrates, emphasizing the importanceof the Gods in all that
we do.
Cassius:
Again, I am all for more information about the religio, but I also request
that we don't overdo it to the point where non-religio Citizens feel
oppressed by religion. :)
Cassius:> While I am certainly all for the Religio Romana being prominent, I
must say > that there is certainly a large amount of Religio content
available to our > Citizens already. It is in our Constitution, our
Declaration, and our FAQ. We > have TWO sections on the Religio in the main
Nova Roma site, the "Pantheon" > section, and also a separate section on the
Priesthoods. Also, of course, the > Religio festival days are regularly
posted to the various lists.
Octavius:
All of this is good, and should continue. There will always be people like
Caius Fabius who simply don't bother to read what is in front of them.We can,
however, avoid some of these incidents by clearly indicating that the Religio
Romana has a special status in Nova Roma, and that it is firmly supported by
all of our magistrates. Emphasizing that on the website will help somewhat -
and, as Curator, I intend to do that regardless of who becomes Consul.>
Cassius:
Excellent!
>Cassius:
> In short, the Religio IS represented prominently throughout the Nova Roma >
website and in our introductory messages. It's even on our slogan: "Dedicated
> to the restoration of Classical Roman religion, culture, and virtues."
Just > how more obvious can we get? ;)
Octavius:
Bigger font. :)
Cassius:
ROFL!
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul, Pontifex Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Candidature for Tribunus Plebis |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:05:52 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Puti Germanice.
--- Caius Puteus Germanicus <puteus@--------> wrote:
> Ave Gnae!
>
> Allow me to ask you some questions about a more concrete program you
> want to see realised.
I will now utter the traditional electoral expression: "I am glad that
yu made those questions..." :-).
> I took from your mail:
>
> I. To provide a faithful protection for anyone in need, under the
> guidance of the Constitution of Nova Roma.
>
> CPG dixit: What kind of protection do you have in mind?
The tribunician protection. I will strive to protect the constitutional
rights of the citizens of Nova Roma. I understand that *that* is
precisely the main responsability of a Tribune.
"How?" you might ask. Through a thoughtful exertion of the right of
veto, as stated in our constitution, of course.
However, I will try to veto as less as possible. I see the tribunician
veto as a last resort, as the "last line of defense" for the civil
rights of our citizenry. I will always try to negotiate, convince and
discuss before I even *consider* vetoing. That, in my opinion, is what
a tribune is for.
> II. To promote a higher level of participation of all citizens,
> taking
> a preferent interest in the participation of our plebeian cives.
>
> CPG dixit: This problem is well known to all active Romani. What are
> you planning to do about it? How are you going to make a distinction
> between patricii and plaebei?
As you know very well, a large part of our citizenry is inactive. I
think that solving that problem is a responsability of all the
magistratures.
In my opinion, our efforts should be directed towards the integration
of those inactive citizens in the body of our active citizens. And we
should also take care of new citizens, providing them a higher level of
information of what Nova Roma is and what can one do in Nova Roma.
However, I think that you will agree in that our patrician gentes,
having been there for longer, are more succesful in inspiring activity
into its members. I know that many of our patrician patres take a great
effort in explaining how Nova Roma works to their newest filii. That is
why I think that our plebeian cives need a special attention on this
aspect.
That does not mean that I will be "closed" to any petition from a
patrician citizen; I will be eager to aid them as well as much as I
can. However, I will *actively* search the "activation" of our plebeian
citizens.
> III. To help build our Republic by following the historical Roman
> tradition as long as it can be done without unbearable clashes with
> modern sensibilities.
>
> CPG dixit: Again, can you be more specific?
Well; I think this one is self explanatory :-).
As you are surely aware, some of our institutions do not follow
historical practices as well as they could. I will strive to bring our
Res Publica closer to its ancient counterpart. But I will also try to
keep contact with life in the modern world; after all, Nova Roma is a
nation of the *28th* century :-).
> IV. To cooperate with my fellow maigistates in the best interest of
> the
> Republic, over personal interests.
>
> CPG dixit: I do not doubt your good intentions, but since this is a
> very important function, I would like to see how serious you have
> been preparing this and what points are really important to you...
What points are really important to me? Well, I guess that those above
would be among my first options :-). Now seriously; I will try to make
a good work as a tribune. I will be always there to help any of our
citizens, I will try to help other magistrates when proposing new
legislation, I will express my opinion whenever pertinent, and I will
exert the powers inyherent to the post as sensibly as I can.
To add up, I will try to follow the example of our current tribune, T.
Labienus Fortunatus, whose work for the Res Publica I deem impecable.
> Vale optime in pace deorum & good luck!!!
Thank you.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Endorsement of Lucius Cornelius Sulla by Antonius Gryllus Graecus |
| From: |
radams36@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:32:53 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Antonio Grilo" <amg@c...> wrote:
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus Senator Pontifexque Omnibus Quiritibus
S.P.D.
>
> I know Lucius Cornelius Sulla since I joined Nova Roma in its
second year of
> existence, and among the things about him that I can remember best,
it is
> WORK. I mean everyday work. Everyday I see Lucius Cornelius Sulla
working
> for Nova Roma. Everyday I meet him on the Internet - for the
worldwide
> dimension of Roma prevents me from shaking his hand - he starts to
speak of
> plans for the growth of Nova Roma, plans to motivate the citizens,
plans to
> improve administration, plans to recover the Religio Romana. Sulla
is a
> persistent worker and he is always open to hear the advice of his
colleagues
> and the people. And his decisions - even those with which I do not
agree
> personally - have always been taken in the best intention of
improving
> things for the roman respublica and the roman people. Of course
never in
> history the all of the actions of a member of a government were
agreed by
> everyone. But I believe that at least most of the time - not to say
always -
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla has achieved his objectives for the welfare
of Nova
> Roma and the fruits of his work are many and good!
> If you want someone to work and to motivate the others to follow his
> example, Lucius Cornelius Sulla is the choice for the Consulship in
the next
> elections.
> And for those who fear the fact that the religion of Lucius
Cornelius Sulla
> is jewish and not a practicioner of the traditional roman religion,
I say
> the following. I regard the jewish L. C. Sulla and the christian M.
M.
> Audens as two of the best friends of the Religio Romana in Nova
Roma. Out
> from the respect they have for the Religio Romana, they have always
asked
> for advice to the Pontifices regarding the way of respecting the
gods in
> their activities as magistrates. Lucius Cornelius Sulla is a Roman
and he
> recognises the Religio Romana has an intrinsic part of roman
society,
> without which Nova Roma cannot be the true heir of Roma Antiqua.
Lucius
> Cornelius Sulla does not want to convert people to the Religio
Romana,
> neither is the Religio Romana compatible with "conversions". Lucius
> Cornelius Sulla just wants the State to increase its concern for
the Religio
> Romana, and to work more to recover a tradition that is since long
dormant
> in the graves of the ancestors and the books of the antiquarians
and poets
> of old.
>
> In the name of Roma, for the sake of Romanitas, vote Lucius
Cornelius Sulla!
>
> Di vos bene ament
Well said, Citizen! I cannot add to or enhance your eloquent
statement, but can only echo that I am proud to call Sulla a friend,
he is a fine citizen who has always brought credit to Nova Roma, and
a true friend to the nation and its citizens. Likewise, Marcus Audens
brings credit to the citizenry with his intelligence and diligence.
Nova Roma is lucky to have either of them, blessed to have them both.
My hat's off to the two of them!
Salve!
Rufus Iulius Palaeologus
|
