Forum Romanum


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Reforming The Tribuni Plebis
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:07:47 -0500

Salve;

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:16 PM
>
> --- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
> >
> > The proposal that was defeated earlier this year by a
> > quirk of the law rather than by the will of the people
> > would have increased the number of Tribunes to the
> > historic number of five that existed in the early days
> > of the republic. This would make it VERY unlikely that
> > we would ever have only a single Tribune. It would
> > have given us a more historic model of having the
> > Tribunes concur on an intercessio, the method used in
> > the early days of the Republic, which was less prone
> > to abuse than the Intercessio used in the later days
> > of the Republic.
> >
> > Quirites,
> > If you entrust me with the office of Tribuni Plebis, I
> > Promise you that I will work with the Consuls to bring
> > this measure to another vote.
>
> I certainly would approve such a measure. I voted in favour of that
> proposal, and I tried to convince everyone I knew to vote in favour of
> that proposal.

Just a note; the measure is going to be re-introduced during the upcoming
magisterial elections. Hopefully, the rules change to the Comitia Centuriata
will be approved, and thus the re-vote on the amendment will be able to be
approved with little problem.

> However, I think that that proposal does not cover the necessary reform
> in our tribunician institution. It would address the problem of having
> an inactive tribune, but I would like to see additional changes in our
> tribunate, to cope with weakness of the tribunate you so well pointed
> out, and to bring this very important organism closer to its historical
> counterpart.
>
> My proposal would be a treefold reform:
>
> 1.- To increase the number of tribunes from two to five, and to change
> the system of veto from a whole of the tribunes vetoing a proposal to a
> majority of the tribunes vetoing a proposal (discounting abstentions).
> This, more or less, is covered by your proposed reform.

The recently defeated (and soon to be reintroduced) Constitutional amendment
covers both of those items.

> 2.- To reinstaurate the legislative side of the tribunician
> institution. Our constitution states, on paragraph III.C:

<snip>

> Everyone familar with the political history of Nova Roma knows that the
> comitia populi tributa has *never* been called to order to promote a
> new law. The reason is because our current patricians (around 30% of
> the population) have always blocked any attempt to do so because they
> would be excluded from that votation.

In point of fact, the patricians have not "blocked" any vote of the Comitia
Plebis. There is no legal way such could be accomplished, even if every
Patrician in Nova Roma wanted to. Thusfar the Tribunes have recognized the
inherent unfairness of passing wide-ranging legislation by only 2/3rds of
the populace, and have thus deferred votes to the Comitia Populi. The
Consuls, in their turn, have fully cooperated and put such legislation
before the Comitia Populi.

> I think that state of affairs is in fact crippling the political growth
> of our Res Publica, and setting it apart from historical practice.
> Therefore, I will try if I am elected to promote a new legislation that
> allows the tribunes to call the comitia populi tributa (where both
> patricians and plebeians can vote) whenever the patricians count up
> above of a 10% (for example) of our total population. In that way, the
> legislative aspect of the tribunate would be recovered.

Such is completely ahistorical, and I, for one, would oppose it. On a
practical level, it addresses only have the problem. I find it quite telling
that you seek to fix the problem of tribunes not introducing legislation,
but not the problem of them having the power to do so to only 2/3rds of our
population. Are you interested in simply increasing the powers that you
would enjoy, or seeking to maintain the inherent fairness of our legislative
system? Specifically, your proposal would still allow the tribunes to call
the Comitia Plebis...

> 3.- To promote a law that bans the tribunes from holding any other
> elected magistrature or provincial propraetorship. I think this is
> necessary because the tribunes are, in part, the watchers over the
> constitution, and must therefore not be involved in the issuing of
> edicta that they, on the other hand, should perhaps veto.

Not a bad idea (indeed, I would eventually like to see a lex banning _any_
magistrate from holding more than one office, but we're not yet to the point
where such a thing is practical).

> Some of you might think that these proposals would increase the
> tribunician power to an intolerable extent. However, we all must remind
> an important factor, that sets us apart from the historical Res
> Publica, and that limits the power of the tribunes: since the tibunes
> would not be allowed to propose laws in the comitia centuriata, they
> would not be allowed to propose ammendments to the constitution! Thus,
> the "watchers of the constitution" would not be allowed to change it,
> which I think is a pretty good check :-).

Actually, where your proposal differs from the Amendment as previously
written, all it does is increase the powers of your office, while retaining
its ability to pass legislation by only 2/3 of the people. I think you
should rethink it; perhaps once the recent Amendment passes, you will find
that a sufficient expansion of the Tribunate's powers...

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Reforming The Tribuni Plebis
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:45:50 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, censor Sulla.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> wrote:
> Avete Omnes, just a slight correction here.
>
>
>
> "To call the Senate and the comitia plebis tributa to order."
>
> Everyone familar with the political history of Nova Roma knows that
> the
> comitia populi tributa has *never* been called to order to promote a
> new law. The reason is because our current patricians (around 30% of
> the population) have always blocked any attempt to do so because they
> would be excluded from that votation.
>
> Sulla: This is incorrect, the Comitia Populi Tributa, have been
> summonned to promulgate leges in the past. In fact most of our laws
> have been promulgated via the Tribes.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Candidate for Consul

I was talking about the comitia *plebis* tributa, censor :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Reforming The Tribuni Plebis
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:47:37 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, propraetor Quintiliane.

--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> wrote:
> Salve Honorable Gnaeus Salix Astur, Amice!
>
> Even though I am a Patrician, I wholehearely support your proposed
> reforms.
> It is a pitty I can't vote for You! ;-)
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Quaestor of Nova Roma
> Propraetor of Thule
>
> CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755

Thank you very much for your kind words, propraetor.
I also wish you could vote for me :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1


Subject:	[novaroma] Market Day, 27 November 2754
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:03:51 -0600 (CST)

Salvete Omnes,

Today is a Market Day; therefore all citizens are invited to
participate in the regularly scheduled chat session.

The recommended times are:

I. 8pm Roma, 7pm UK

II. 9pm US/Eastern, 6pm Pacific
(this is in approximately one hour)

Several candidates for office have already indicated that they will
be present.

Valete, Octavius.
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/consul/

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Reforming The Tribuni Plebis
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:06:04 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, consul Germanice.

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@--------> wrote:
> Just a note; the measure is going to be re-introduced during the
> upcoming
> magisterial elections. Hopefully, the rules change to the Comitia
> Centuriata
> will be approved, and thus the re-vote on the amendment will be able
> to be
> approved with little problem.

I am glad to hear that! I shall surely vote (and speak) in favour of
that proposal.

> > However, I think that that proposal does not cover the necessary
> reform
> > in our tribunician institution. It would address the problem of
> having
> > an inactive tribune, but I would like to see additional changes in
> our
> > tribunate, to cope with weakness of the tribunate you so well
> pointed
> > out, and to bring this very important organism closer to its
> historical
> > counterpart.
> >
> > My proposal would be a treefold reform:
> >
> > 1.- To increase the number of tribunes from two to five, and to
> change
> > the system of veto from a whole of the tribunes vetoing a proposal
> to a
> > majority of the tribunes vetoing a proposal (discounting
> abstentions).
> > This, more or less, is covered by your proposed reform.
>
> The recently defeated (and soon to be reintroduced) Constitutional
> amendment
> covers both of those items.

Perfect! One less thing to do :-).

> > 2.- To reinstaurate the legislative side of the tribunician
> > institution. Our constitution states, on paragraph III.C:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Everyone familar with the political history of Nova Roma knows that
> the
> > comitia populi tributa has *never* been called to order to promote
> a
> > new law. The reason is because our current patricians (around 30%
> of
> > the population) have always blocked any attempt to do so because
> they
> > would be excluded from that votation.
>
> In point of fact, the patricians have not "blocked" any vote of the
> Comitia
> Plebis. There is no legal way such could be accomplished, even if
> every
> Patrician in Nova Roma wanted to. Thusfar the Tribunes have
> recognized the
> inherent unfairness of passing wide-ranging legislation by only
> 2/3rds of
> the populace, and have thus deferred votes to the Comitia Populi. The
> Consuls, in their turn, have fully cooperated and put such
> legislation
> before the Comitia Populi.

I have certainly misworded that statement. Yours is basically correct,
although I think there have been a few exceptions to that rule (whith
whcih I agree) that created some outcry in the past from our patrician
cives.

> > I think that state of affairs is in fact crippling the political
> growth
> > of our Res Publica, and setting it apart from historical practice.
> > Therefore, I will try if I am elected to promote a new legislation
> that
> > allows the tribunes to call the comitia populi tributa (where both
> > patricians and plebeians can vote) whenever the patricians count up
> > above of a 10% (for example) of our total population. In that way,
> the
> > legislative aspect of the tribunate would be recovered.
>
> Such is completely ahistorical, and I, for one, would oppose it. On a
> practical level, it addresses only have the problem. I find it quite
> telling
> that you seek to fix the problem of tribunes not introducing
> legislation,
> but not the problem of them having the power to do so to only 2/3rds
> of our
> population. Are you interested in simply increasing the powers that
> you
> would enjoy, or seeking to maintain the inherent fairness of our
> legislative
> system? Specifically, your proposal would still allow the tribunes to
> call
> the Comitia Plebis...

That has been a mistake from my part. I should have said that my
proposal would temporarily ban the use of the comitia *plebis* tributa
to pass laws. My intention has always been to *include* the patricians
in the voting of those proposals presented by the tribunes, because
they represent such a large percentage of our population that anything
else would be too unfair, as you pointed out above.

I know it is antihistorical; I wish this measures were not necessary.
But under our current system we are *not* having tribunician proposals;
as you said, they have to pass through the consuls. My intention is to
create a *temporary* measure, just used when the percentage of
patricians rises above a certain limit (let's say 10%).

I wish this could be achieved in some other, more historical way. Do
you have any suggestion, consul?

> > 3.- To promote a law that bans the tribunes from holding any other
> > elected magistrature or provincial propraetorship. I think this is
> > necessary because the tribunes are, in part, the watchers over the
> > constitution, and must therefore not be involved in the issuing of
> > edicta that they, on the other hand, should perhaps veto.
>
> Not a bad idea (indeed, I would eventually like to see a lex banning
> _any_
> magistrate from holding more than one office, but we're not yet to
> the point
> where such a thing is practical).

Then we completely agree on this one (we even agree on your wish to
have a ban on multiple magistratures!).

> > Some of you might think that these proposals would increase the
> > tribunician power to an intolerable extent. However, we all must
> remind
> > an important factor, that sets us apart from the historical Res
> > Publica, and that limits the power of the tribunes: since the
> tibunes
> > would not be allowed to propose laws in the comitia centuriata,
> they
> > would not be allowed to propose ammendments to the constitution!
> Thus,
> > the "watchers of the constitution" would not be allowed to change
> it,
> > which I think is a pretty good check :-).
>
> Actually, where your proposal differs from the Amendment as
> previously
> written, all it does is increase the powers of your office, while
> retaining
> its ability to pass legislation by only 2/3 of the people. I think
> you
> should rethink it; perhaps once the recent Amendment passes, you will
> find
> that a sufficient expansion of the Tribunate's powers...

I do not think so. My proposal would *not* allow to pass legislation
with only 2/3 of the people, as I think that I have clarified above.
And the current proposal does *not* handle the possibility of the
tribunes effectively proposing new legislation.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1


Subject:	[novaroma] R: Franciscus Apulus Caesar for Curator Araneum
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:49:37 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar omnibus S.P.D.

In the respect of Gods, Rome and Nova Roma Senate and magistrates, I,
Franciscus Apulus Caesar, Paterfamialias Gens Apula, present my
candidacy for the Office of CURATOR ARANEUM.

I run yet for the office of Queastor but I just known now the election
for the thw official Web Master of Nova Roma.org I want serve for every
Office ... with my features to improve the honourable Nova Roma
administration.

I'm a professionist web master in my daily life, I work in
Communication and Multimedial Offices in many italian Pubblic Administrations.
My Nova Roman portfolio is little, I designed the new website of
Provincia Italia (screen on
www.fraelovdesign.f2s.com/provinciaitalia.jpg) and the website of Gens
Apula www.gensapula.too.it:
In my professionist portfolio I have this websites too:
- www.fraelovdesign.f2s.com
- www.cooplarco.it
- www.medinforma.it/farm
- www.malag.f2s.com
- www.cooperativainforma.it/home.html (under construction)
- www.valentinisrl.com
and flash work to Meltin'Pot, radiodervish, etc.

The work of the Curator Araneum M. Octavius Germanicus is perfect but
we can have a website more "cool" and intercative.
My aim is improve the design of the official website, restyling the
sections and the interactive areas. More web services in the site could
grow the interest and the active partecipation of civis. For example it
could be possible host the official websites of every provinciae and
get webspace (maybe paying) to the paterfamilias to build the Gens'
site. Or I would improve the structure of many pages, rebuilding the
pinacotecha like a real photo gallery, or the tabularium more clear and
comprensible, etc.

Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia
Paterfamilias Gens Apula
www.gensapula.too.it
----------------------------------------
Alme Sol ... Possis Nihil Urbe Roma Visere Maius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Franciscus Apulus Caesar for Curator Araneum
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:35:23 +0100


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Reforming The Tribuni Plebis
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:48:03 -0500

Salvete;

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 8:06 PM
>
> > Specifically, your proposal would still allow the tribunes to
> > call the Comitia Plebis...
>
> That has been a mistake from my part. I should have said that my
> proposal would temporarily ban the use of the comitia *plebis* tributa
> to pass laws. My intention has always been to *include* the patricians
> in the voting of those proposals presented by the tribunes, because
> they represent such a large percentage of our population that anything
> else would be too unfair, as you pointed out above.

Okay, so if I understand correctly, you are saying that in any situation in
which Patricians formed more than 10% of the total population, the Tribunes
would have the power to call the Comitia Populi to order, but not the
Comitia Plebis?

I think I could see that happening. Even if it is ahistorical, it is
certainly the best solution for a horrible situation. (I think the best
solution is to decrease the relative percentage of Patricians in the
population, but certain individuals have squelched any suggestion of
that...)

Perhaps if we get some more input from other cives, such a change might be
included in the amendment to be voted on in December.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Help with the provincial site of Gallia
From:	"Ianus Minicius Sparsus" <jfernandez50@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 02:18:49 +0100

----- Original Message -----
From: Yann Qu�r�
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Help with the provincial site of Gallia

Salvete,

Gallia is quite despered because our webmaster resigned a few weeks ago. He
was replaced by a volunteer who lack time performing the new site. As
Germania Inferior is bound to be created, and was the receptacle of most of
the motivated Gaul citizens, there is not much people in Gallia to ensure
administration.

I also have difficulties nowadays, for personnal and professionnal reasons,
to give some time to Provincia Gallia. But patience, within one or two
months, I should be able to make all this up.

Bene Valete
Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio
Propraetor Galliae

Salvete,

Thanks for all. I hope sincerely that in just a short time you are able to solve the problems of the province.
Your neighbors of Hispania wish it highly.

I. Minicius Sparsus
- Provinciae Hispaniae -

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] RE: Franciscus Apulus Caesar for Quaestor / Vigintisexvirum
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:50:01 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Flavio Vedio Germanico S.P.D.

>Three questions.
>First, as Quaestor, you could conceivably be assigned to one of next year's
Consuls, and thus find yourself charged with collecting those taxes you
oppose. If elected, would your opposition to taxes interfere with your
ability to perform that duty?

The principal aim of every magistrates is serve the Res Publica. In my
opinion, this duty exist too when there is a public decision contrary to own
ideas. A decision taked by a Senate elected democraticly by the civis is
more important of the personal idea because it is the Nova Roman decision.
If my Consul edicts a law and orders me to collect the taxes I could talking
about this, present my personal opinions, but I must serve my Senate. So, in
the same way a politic system is democratic when the components accept and
discuss other different opinion. In this way we can see the maturity of
Administration, working peacefully with different ideas.

> Second, it is the Senate which has the power to levy taxes under our
Constitution. Why do you believe that your opinion on whether taxes are
appropriate or not is relevant to your election as Quaestor?

It isn't relevant my opinion about the taxes specially. It's relevant my
sincerity: this is my personal and disputable opinion amd i want be elected
for what I am and not simulating a moderate view. I'm reading a lot of good
sentence but what are real? I prefer to be elected for what I am and for
what I thong and not JUST elected.

> Third, do you believe that local and central administration is not open to
everyone? You seem to imply such in your statement. If so, why, and what
would you do to change it?

No, I want say it could be fantastic for me see a system not based on
classes but because I'm a pure democratic :-)
And I want to see a Nova Roma open to different civis (do you remember
"moral idiots"?), open to the civis' sons, etc.
You must understand my words like a personal sweet dream! :-)

> I want an equal importance
> and partecipation between European and American Provinciae
> meeting the two different Nova Roman point of view (this is
> fantastic for me!)..

> What of our South American and Pacific provincia?

Sorry, I live in Europe so I thing of my situation. I don't know the pacific
or brasilian points of view, but I thing that the biggest different is
between Europe and America because there are two different wasy to
understand Nova Roma and his ideology. I'm looking two styles to approach on
the NR's matters and administration and because today the most important way
is american I would an "european idea" more influent. If this situation
exist in South-America or Asia too I'll "fight" for it too.

> Wonderful!

Thank you.

>> Please, support me in the election of Propraetorship of Provincia Italia.
>Is this a typo? You're running for Quaestor, not governor (especially since
governors aren't popularly elected).

I know I'm running for the office of Quaestor popularly elected :-)
It is an invitation to support me to Senate for the election of Propraetor
of Provincia Italia. I THING to be able to manage my Provincia.

Vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia
Paterfamilias Gens Apula
www.gensapula.too.it
----------------------------------------
Alme Sol ... Possis Nihil Urbe Roma Visere Maius


Subject:	[novaroma] Consul
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:54:27 -0500

Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD

I have come to the Forum today to, in my own small way, give my public support to Senator Marcus Octavius Germanicus.

He is a real treasure! To have someone of his ability combined with his work ethic is fortunate enough, but added to this is someone of real courage and ethics!

Not only do I owe him my personal support, but I must also support him for the benefit of Nova Roma.

My only regret in asking you all to vote for Marcus Octavius as Consul is that I had hoped that he would be my colleague as Censor. I can think of no one more deserving of our trust.

Bene omnibus nobis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Venii Poem
From:	Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:22:47 -0600

Salvete Omnes,

During the Marketday Chat I received some words of interest in this poem. I have a book
manuscript in the process of being edited by a publisher. It will be available soon.

I am a Germanic Heathen. My Patron is Uller. I believe that I have had shamanic experiences of
Him in His home of Yewdale. In this poem, Uller has a visitor: Minerva.

Where Is Home? - 31 Januarius 2751 AUC

Alone I sat, in hunting woods
Near maple old, beside black pool
And gentle breeze, through rustling leaves
Brought calm to mind, and sharpened sense

I looked around, but saw no deer
Then settled in, the time to wait
Until my prey, would show itself
And broadhead sharp, would take its life

Some blackbirds screeched, an old squirrel barked
A shadow flew, across the sun
An owl passed, and roosted in
A big trunked elm, across the pond

Its eyes caught mine, it called to me
Who, who are you, It seemed to ask
A long time search, within myself
I thought I knew, but doubt had come

But more than name, I sought to know
Does Kinship call, from South or North
Which Tribe and Clan, holds Blood and Bone
Whose burden does, my shoulder bear

I laid bow down, and turned within
To puzzle out, this riddle mine
A plea I made, for counsel wise
To answer this, which Folk am I

I found myself, on well worn path
A Gift of Sight, from Bow Lord old
To visit Him, and sit enlodged
By fireside, and guidance gain

I sat in place, accustomed now
He smiled bright, in welcoming
No words were said, none would suffice
My quandary plain, writ on my face

A guest I saw, a strange event
For none had been, with Old One ere
I came in Search, of all of me
She sat and looked, a smile spared

The Grey-Eyed One, so tall and grave
Her bearing proud, Her features fine
Extended hands, to Ull and I
I understood, I'm of two tribes

Minerva stood, and waved me down
My place was here, in Yew Lord's garth
But knew I did, that welcome I
In Roman town, would always be

Then Uller stood, and waved me up
He bade her stay, and shared we mead
I had my Gift, and counsel too
Not two but one, to travel free

I woke to me, in hunting woods
The owl called, and then flew off
A young deer paused, went home with me
The day's last Gift, of North and South

And so I know, my Kinlore broad
A man of two, now one in me
At ease with both, but North is Home
An Uller's man, Minerva's son

Alone I sat, in hunting woods
Near maple old, beside black pool
And gentle breeze, through rustling leaves
Brought calm to mind, and sharpened sense

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html

Stress is when you wake up screaming
and you realize you haven't fallen asleep yet.


Subject:	[novaroma] DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY -FOR QVAESTOR
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 02:34:26 EST

DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY
QVINTVS FABIVS MAXIMVS

Salvete cives,
I am Q. Fabius Maximus.

I come before you on this day to declare myself as a candidate for the office
of
Quaestor

I will not bore you with my many titles and honors.

I am Q. Fabius Maximus. And I failed Rome. After spending 500.00 in books
and countless
hours in latin translation, I was preparing to offer written recommendations
to form our basic law codes, civil and criminal. But the US was attacked,
and we all know the disruption that it caused in our lives, and our plans.
Now, I'm involved in a film project that while is winding down, still
occupies my attention. Therefore, all I can do is offer the next Praetor my
helping hand and my many texts.
As for my qualifications, once I serve as quaestor, I will have completed the
cursus honorum. I believe that will make me the sixth person in the republic
to do so.
I trust you all will let me achieve this goal, and aid me in continuing my
work in the Law.
Valete!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Endoresements of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the next elections
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:15:24 -0000

Antonius Gryllus Graecus Senator Pontifexque Omnibus Quiritibus

I'd like to endorse a number of people who I believe will perform a fine job
working together as magistrates of Nova Roma:

- Consul: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
- Consul: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
These two Senators have alread given enough proofs of dedication to Nova
Roma. Lucius Cornelius Sulla has served until now as a Censor, a tough job
which he was able to match with his dedication and hability. Marcus Octavius
Germanicus, a Curator Araneae whose tough work has greatly improved the NR
web site and the management of its contents.
The office of Consul requires experienced people who have shown a good and
great ammount of work in the past. Moreover, these two men have collaborated
since long and will surely make a good team in the government of Nova Roma.

- Praetor: Titus Labienus Fortunatus
- Praetor: Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
These are two people whom I trust and who have greatly participated in the
past.
Titus Labienus Fortunatus has been a fine Tribunus this year, and was always
able to collaborate with the other magistrates and the Senate, but never
quitting the ideals which he believes to be just and righteous.
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo has greatly participated in several activities,
though I'm more familiar with her good work and dedication in the Sodalitas
Militarium, and from what I know of her she will really do a good job as
Praetor.

- Tribunus: Gnaeus Salix Astur
This is new blood entering the Cursus Honorum. Gnaeus Salix Astur is a very
active citizen and has greatly participated in the past in several lists
namely related to Roman law and religion. He is also an active member in
Provincia Hispania. When I mean participate, I don't mean posting useless
messages. He has actively participated in law discussions, making proposals,
ammends, sugesting additions, correcting flaws. Moreover, his conscience
about the importance of the Comitia make him the ideal Tribunus Plebis.

- Aedilis Plebis: Sextus Apollonius Draco
More new blood. Useless to say that S. A. Draco is one of the most active
citizens, namely in the promotion of the arts in the Sodalitas Musarum. He
has also shown in the past a big interest for the politics of Nova Roma and
the development of the governmental structures. Although we are political
adversaries in many respects, I support his candidacy, as it will provide a
balance of ideas and promises to bring new and competent people to the
senior magistracies in the future.

- Questor: Marcus Minucius Audens
No words of praisal are enough for this man. His work as magistrate, as
senator, his work as Praefectus Sodalitatis Militarium, his good sense and
constructive spirit make him the ideal man for any magistracy. He has chosen
that of Quaestor

- Questor: Francincus Apullus Caesar
More new blood and someone who has already presented the proof of his
hability. Thanks to him and his companions (I'd like to remind everyone the
tragedy that fell over the family of M. Constantius Serapio, whose sister
was killed in the September 11 attack together with her children, a tragedy
which is still keeping this good citizen away from us), Italia will once
again be a roman territory and - who knows - our base in the future. ;)

- Curator Sermonis: M. Villius Limitanus
I support this candidate for the office of Curator Sermonis. I don't know
him well, but I know he is an active citizen and friend with many good
romans. Why do I do this instead of supporting the most obvious choice
Priscilla Vedia Serena.
Most of you know that I was against the English language policy since the
beginning, at least when no exception was made for Latin, and I had already
openly promised not to support the Curatrix Sermonis Priscilla Vedia Serena
in this elections in case her policy towards Latin was not changed. Latin
should - in my opinion - be excempt from the need of translations on the
main mailing list of Nova Roma for Latin is the language proper of the Roman
state as I understand it. I have requested the Curatrix Sermonis Priscilla
Vedia Serena a change of her edict in order to quit the requirement for an
English translation of Latin posts, a measure which is my opinion would
favour Latin and motivate its learning, besides contributing to provide a
better image of the list to the outsiders. The request was denied, which I
understand as an attempt to "Anglicize" Nova Roma, turning English into the
language of the Romans, and which could even allow suspicion over the ideals
that are behind her option (e.g. people could accuse her/us of Right Wing
Nationalism)... Of course this suspicion is not true and I believe that the
Curatrix's ideals are not these, although the practical effect - measured by
the accusations I read almost everyday on the european lists - was most
probably the same.
Due to the latter event (and also other minor details) which makes me
suspect of Priscilla Vedia Serena's regard for Latinitas and
macronational-independent Romanitas, I prefer to bet on the "popular" wing
at this time and support M. Villius Limitanus as the best choice and one
that will make the main mailing list of Nova Roma a more open forum.
Besides, M. Villius Limitanus has also the support of several valid citizens
such as Sextus Apollonius Draco, which makes me more confident that he will
be a good option.

To finish, I'd like to say that there are so many candidates that I may have
missed some people for whom I have the greatest esteem, and to these people
I want to apologize.
As to the candidates I do not support, I also wish luck in their endeavours
and I'd like to say that I know that my opinion is only an opinion, and that
there are different opinions which also stem from the same wish to improve
Nova Roma and make in grow in a Good direction.

Di vos bene ament

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Reforming The Tribuni Plebis
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:14:50 +0100

Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> Perhaps if we get some more input from other cives, such a change might be
> included in the amendment to be voted on in December.

Salve, Flavi Vedi Germanice.

I've got no real input, other than to say I like how this sounds.
Limiting/moving the authority of the tribunes from the Comitia Plebis to
the Comitia Populi until we have a more historical patrician-plebeian
ratio sounds like a great idea.

Thus; I fully support this proposal by consul Flavius Vedius Germanicus
and (hopefully) future tribunis plebis Gnaeus Salix Astur.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

P.S. I don't like "me to"-posts, but I felt this subject important
enough to warrant one or two agreements to be heard. D.S.

+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- |
| Version: 3.1 |
| GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N |
| o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X- |
| R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !y- |
| ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] R: Franciscus Apulus Caesar for Curator Araneum
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:24:00 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:
> The work of the Curator Araneum M. Octavius Germanicus is perfect but
> we can have a website more "cool" and intercative.
> My aim is improve the design of the official website, restyling the
> sections and the interactive areas. More web services in the site could
> grow the interest and the active partecipation of civis. For example it
> could be possible host the official websites of every provinciae and
> get webspace (maybe paying) to the paterfamilias to build the Gens'
> site. Or I would improve the structure of many pages, rebuilding the
> pinacotecha like a real photo gallery, or the tabularium more clear and
> comprensible, etc.

Salve, Francisce Apule Caesar.

I just though I'd ask, are you planning on providing the res publica
with a new host for the Nova Roman website? Or are you "giving away"
space on Marcus Octavius Germanicus' server in this proposal?

Also, I'm not sure I think "cool" is the right look for a micronation
dedicated to the restoration of the ideals of Roma Antiqua...but that's
just me. :)

An idea for you; Apply for a position as scriba to next year's Curator
Araneum, should you not win the election. That way, you'd probably be in
a position to offer your views on what should be done as well as your
expertise on how to do it, as well as gain some experience for the next
elections.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius,
scriba to the Curator Araneum.

+--------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- |
| Version: 3.1 |
| GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N |
| o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X- |
| R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !y- |
| ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+


Subject:	[novaroma] Priscilla Vedia Serena Laude Magna
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:54:44 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

With due respect to all candidates, I come before you offering some
well-deserved words of praise for a great lady in Nova Roma, Priscilla
Vedia Serena.

Vedia is running for two positions in Nova Roma this year, Censor and
Curatrix Sermonis. The latter position she offering to additionally
resume, out of a sense of duty and love of Rome and her conviction
that we need experienced list moderation. I am willing to assist her
in any way I can in this regard.

Such devotion and conviction, must not go unheralded.

I have had the privilege of being Vedia's scribe for much of the year.
She is sharp, ie quick-witted. I joked with her one day and told her
she "connects the dots' very quickly. Priscilla is also organized and
timely in her actions. I have learned a great deal from her.

I will have you know, that if it weren't for Priscilla's
quick-thinking, there would have been some serious security breaches
on our mainlist, to the detriment of us all. This is all I can say
without breaking confidentiality.

I told her, and I say this to you, that there is very little Priscilla
could not do, once she set her mind to things. This I objectively say
on the basis of my interaction with her on a frequent basis.

Prima domina, I am pleased to call you friend.

Quirites, I believe Priscilla to be worthy of weighted consideration
in the positions she runs for.

My sincere thanks, Priscilla Vedia, for all you have done for Nova
Roma, and for your offer to further serve our respublica.

Valete bene,

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
Scriba Curatrix Sermonis P.Vedia Serena
NOVA ROMA


Subject:	[novaroma] ORATORIUM: QUINTUS FABIUS MAXIMUS
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:33:49 +0000

Salvete Omnes:

I cannot, in all conscience allow a great Senator and past Consul to render
such a crusty appraisal of his value to Rome.

His credentials and accomplishments are anything but "boring". I wish to
cite a few of them, if I may, as they have in the past been publicly
published on his list.

Quintus Fabius Maximus, who takes his name after a great general during the
Punic Wars, and a subsequent Consul, holds two Bachelors Degrees: one in
film and one in classical history.

He holds a Masters Degree in Byzantine Military Reforms.

Maximus has written books, produced historical documentaries, and other
films, including music videos.

He is coeditor of Streikagon (spelling?) a quarterly magazine of military
history.

Quintus Fabius has been very helpful to me in the past in my governorship
and has worked to benefit those in our provincia. He spent much time with
me giving me counsel and instruction regarding the religio. His knowledge
of the the Pantheon, the culture, personalities, military of Ancient Rome is
hyperremarkable. Spend an hour with him on AIM sometime :)

Quintus Fabius is the initiator of the concept of taxation in Nova Roma, to
generate much needed revenues, a concept, which I basically support, in
keeping with fairness and equitity for all citizens.

He serves as Military Historian for Sodalitas Militarium, and has writeen
many enlightening posts for the Sodalitas List and this mainlist.

I am sure that I have omitted many things, but I hope I have painted a
picture of an accomplished and contributory magistrate, not one who is by
any means of imagination, one who has failed us.

Maxime, you and I have not always agreed on things, and my comments in the
forum regarding the civil law into were just that, comments on the law
intro. Professional, not personal. Anything personal I send via private
email, in keeping with common courtesy. I hope that I didn't lend to your
current state of melancholy. Like you, I tend to take things like civil law
very seriously. Why I am running for Praetor Urbanus...not to say "well,
*I'll* show you", or "I'm going to grow wrinkles and gray hairs on
Fortunatus" or any other such absurdities. I truly want to help this
community, and I am willing to work with those more experienced than I, and
I hope that at some point I will be privileged enough to work with you
again.

I have shared my position with Praetor et Senator Caius Flavius
Diocletionus, who understands where I was coming from.

Alas, many of us are worlds apart culturally, socially; what I think will
make us great as a community is when we are willing to celebrate what we
each have in common. Differences will perpetually abound.

I hope you don't mind my doing a little horn-tooting on your behalf, Sir. I
truly think you deserve it. And I wish you the best in your bid for
Quaestor, Proconsul Fabi.

Magna cum reverentia,
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
Nova Roma

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


Subject:	[novaroma] office of Consul
From:	AntoniaCorneliaOctavia <europamoon7@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:42:59 -0800 (PST)

Avete Omnes,

I come before you as a mere citizen to ask for your
support in electing Lucius Cornelia Sulla Felix as
Consul. I have been a citizen since February of this
year and am presently scriba for Quintus Fabius
Maximus, Proconsul of California. I have had the
privilege and honor of meeting and dealing with Sulla
on a personal level since first becoming a citizen and
have found him to be a most dedicated, caring and
intelligent individual. His unique combination of wit,
passion for Roma and endless resolve to further the
glory of Nova Roma make him, in my opinion, the best
choice for Consul. His accomplishments speak for
themselves as do his abilities and unfailing
commitment to Nova Roma. His knowledge of the Roman
Republic, the internal workings of Nova Roma and
ability to deal fairly with the citizens of Nova Roma
have been evident to me personally and to many, many
others. He has shown the greatest respect for the
traditions of Roma while wisely ushering in the
changes needed to make Nova Roma all She can and will
be. I truly believe that Sulla will take us all into a
new direction that will empower the citizens giving us
renewed involvement in our government and help bring
order and stability to the Republic while opening Her
doors to new ideas and implementing proven ones as
well. I hope you will join me in electing Sulla for
the office of Consul. May the Gods bless all the
citizens of Nova Roma and Roma Herself.

Roma nunc et semper.

Your humble servant,

Antonia Cornelia Octavia

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Reforming The Tribuni Plebis
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:27:01 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, consul Germanice.

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@--------> wrote:
> Salvete;
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@--------]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 8:06 PM
> >
> > > Specifically, your proposal would still allow the tribunes to
> > > call the Comitia Plebis...
> >
> > That has been a mistake from my part. I should have said that my
> > proposal would temporarily ban the use of the comitia *plebis*
> tributa
> > to pass laws. My intention has always been to *include* the
> patricians
> > in the voting of those proposals presented by the tribunes, because
> > they represent such a large percentage of our population that
> anything
> > else would be too unfair, as you pointed out above.
>
> Okay, so if I understand correctly, you are saying that in any
> situation in
> which Patricians formed more than 10% of the total population, the
> Tribunes
> would have the power to call the Comitia Populi to order, but not the
> Comitia Plebis?

Exactly. That is what I intended to say.

> I think I could see that happening. Even if it is ahistorical, it is
> certainly the best solution for a horrible situation. (I think the
> best
> solution is to decrease the relative percentage of Patricians in the
> population, but certain individuals have squelched any suggestion of
> that...)

I am glad to hear that :-). Besides, I have to agree with you in that a
lower ratio of patrician vs. plebeian cives would be preferable, in
order to follow historical practice more faithfully. I am not sure of
how such a lower ratio could be obtained, without stepping on too many
patrician toes, although I will think about it :-).

> Perhaps if we get some more input from other cives, such a change
> might be
> included in the amendment to be voted on in December.

That would certainly be great!

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Venii Poem
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:43:10 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Venator.

An extremely nice piece of writing. It somehow gets to express my own
feelings about Rome and my fatherland, about Roman culture and my
native culture.

Thank you for posting it.

--- Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> During the Marketday Chat I received some words of interest in this
> poem. I have a book
> manuscript in the process of being edited by a publisher. It will be
> available soon.
>
> I am a Germanic Heathen. My Patron is Uller. I believe that I have
> had shamanic experiences of
> Him in His home of Yewdale. In this poem, Uller has a visitor:
> Minerva.
>
> Where Is Home? - 31 Januarius 2751 AUC
>
> Alone I sat, in hunting woods
> Near maple old, beside black pool
> And gentle breeze, through rustling leaves
> Brought calm to mind, and sharpened sense
>
> I looked around, but saw no deer
> Then settled in, the time to wait
> Until my prey, would show itself
> And broadhead sharp, would take its life
>
> Some blackbirds screeched, an old squirrel barked
> A shadow flew, across the sun
> An owl passed, and roosted in
> A big trunked elm, across the pond
>
> Its eyes caught mine, it called to me
> Who, who are you, It seemed to ask
> A long time search, within myself
> I thought I knew, but doubt had come
>
> But more than name, I sought to know
> Does Kinship call, from South or North
> Which Tribe and Clan, holds Blood and Bone
> Whose burden does, my shoulder bear
>
> I laid bow down, and turned within
> To puzzle out, this riddle mine
> A plea I made, for counsel wise
> To answer this, which Folk am I
>
> I found myself, on well worn path
> A Gift of Sight, from Bow Lord old
> To visit Him, and sit enlodged
> By fireside, and guidance gain
>
> I sat in place, accustomed now
> He smiled bright, in welcoming
> No words were said, none would suffice
> My quandary plain, writ on my face
>
> A guest I saw, a strange event
> For none had been, with Old One ere
> I came in Search, of all of me
> She sat and looked, a smile spared
>
> The Grey-Eyed One, so tall and grave
> Her bearing proud, Her features fine
> Extended hands, to Ull and I
> I understood, I'm of two tribes
>
> Minerva stood, and waved me down
> My place was here, in Yew Lord's garth
> But knew I did, that welcome I
> In Roman town, would always be
>
> Then Uller stood, and waved me up
> He bade her stay, and shared we mead
> I had my Gift, and counsel too
> Not two but one, to travel free
>
> I woke to me, in hunting woods
> The owl called, and then flew off
> A young deer paused, went home with me
> The day's last Gift, of North and South
>
> And so I know, my Kinlore broad
> A man of two, now one in me
> At ease with both, but North is Home
> An Uller's man, Minerva's son
>
> Alone I sat, in hunting woods
> Near maple old, beside black pool
> And gentle breeze, through rustling leaves
> Brought calm to mind, and sharpened sense
>
> --
> =========================================
> In Amicus sub Fidelis
> - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
> Cives Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
> Domus Familias
> http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html
>
> Stress is when you wake up screaming
> and you realize you haven't fallen asleep yet.
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Reforming The Tribuni Plebis
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:20:47 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Tite Octavi.

--- Kristoffer From <from@--------> wrote:
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> > Perhaps if we get some more input from other cives, such a change
> might be
> > included in the amendment to be voted on in December.
>
> Salve, Flavi Vedi Germanice.
>
> I've got no real input, other than to say I like how this sounds.
> Limiting/moving the authority of the tribunes from the Comitia Plebis
> to
> the Comitia Populi until we have a more historical patrician-plebeian
> ratio sounds like a great idea.
>
> Thus; I fully support this proposal by consul Flavius Vedius
> Germanicus
> and (hopefully) future tribunis plebis Gnaeus Salix Astur.
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> P.S. I don't like "me to"-posts, but I felt this subject important
> enough to warrant one or two agreements to be heard. D.S.

Thank you very much for your words of support, Tite. I am happy to see
that you agree with me in this issue.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1


Subject:	[novaroma] Election Endorsement: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:12:12 EST

Salvete citizens of Rome!

I, Quintus Fabius Maximus, return from my travels to discover the whitened
togas of candidates everywhere, so it must be election time. This is a most
important time for Nova Roma. It is these prospective Magistrates who will
shape our future.
I do not give endorsements. I find them to be usually bombastic mutual
admiration by clients or friends of one another's abilities. However, I was
requested by several people to give this one, so I will.

First off, you all will hear that Lucius Cornelius Sulla is my friend. So
that you will know where I'm coming from I do not deny that fact. Since we
met in Sept. 1998, we have been consummate Nova Romans, and we have fought
hard on the front lines together to give the Republic continued existence.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, was our Censor, is a Senator of high respect. He
completed the cursus honorum, that is he was Quaestor, Praetor, and Consul,
though for a short term, and has received Rome's highest honors, yet this is
not enough for him. He wishes be Consul again to complete his work. And
Rome needs him. The first five years of any entity is the most tenuous.
Lucius Cornelius' dedication to Nova Roma is legendary already. Lucius
Cornelius Sulla's affable nature combined with his attention to detail has
revised the Censor's office and is has streamlined it to function efficiently
today.
Lucius Cornelius has propagated many laws to aid the Republic. Go to our law
depository and see how many leges are entitled Lex Cornelia. And consider
this, Lucius Cornelius is of the Jewish persuasion, yet he includes honoring
and understanding my Gods within his interests.
Such a man is a Roman, embraces Romanitas, and is needed to guide our
emerging nation next year. Romans! Vote for this man for Consul. I thank
you for listening.

Valete!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Venii Poem
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:14:23 +0100

Salve Venator!

Nice work, truly. If you don't mind, I'm crossposting it to the Sodalitas
Musarum list.

Vale bene!
S. Apollonius Draco

<< PETITOR AEDILIS PLEBIS >>

> Where Is Home? - 31 Januarius 2751 AUC
>
> Alone I sat, in hunting woods
> Near maple old, beside black pool
> And gentle breeze, through rustling leaves
> Brought calm to mind, and sharpened sense
>
> I looked around, but saw no deer
> Then settled in, the time to wait
> Until my prey, would show itself
> And broadhead sharp, would take its life
>
> Some blackbirds screeched, an old squirrel barked
> A shadow flew, across the sun
> An owl passed, and roosted in
> A big trunked elm, across the pond
>
> Its eyes caught mine, it called to me
> Who, who are you, It seemed to ask
> A long time search, within myself
> I thought I knew, but doubt had come
>
> But more than name, I sought to know
> Does Kinship call, from South or North
> Which Tribe and Clan, holds Blood and Bone
> Whose burden does, my shoulder bear
>
> I laid bow down, and turned within
> To puzzle out, this riddle mine
> A plea I made, for counsel wise
> To answer this, which Folk am I
>
> I found myself, on well worn path
> A Gift of Sight, from Bow Lord old
> To visit Him, and sit enlodged
> By fireside, and guidance gain
>
> I sat in place, accustomed now
> He smiled bright, in welcoming
> No words were said, none would suffice
> My quandary plain, writ on my face
>
> A guest I saw, a strange event
> For none had been, with Old One ere
> I came in Search, of all of me
> She sat and looked, a smile spared
>
> The Grey-Eyed One, so tall and grave
> Her bearing proud, Her features fine
> Extended hands, to Ull and I
> I understood, I'm of two tribes
>
> Minerva stood, and waved me down
> My place was here, in Yew Lord's garth
> But knew I did, that welcome I
> In Roman town, would always be
>
> Then Uller stood, and waved me up
> He bade her stay, and shared we mead
> I had my Gift, and counsel too
> Not two but one, to travel free
>
> I woke to me, in hunting woods
> The owl called, and then flew off
> A young deer paused, went home with me
> The day's last Gift, of North and South
>
> And so I know, my Kinlore broad
> A man of two, now one in me
> At ease with both, but North is Home
> An Uller's man, Minerva's son
>
> Alone I sat, in hunting woods
> Near maple old, beside black pool
> And gentle breeze, through rustling leaves
> Brought calm to mind, and sharpened sense
>
> --
> =========================================
> In Amicus sub Fidelis
> - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
> Cives Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
> Domus Familias
> http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html
>
> Stress is when you wake up screaming
> and you realize you haven't fallen asleep yet.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ENDORSEMENTS
From:	"Mike Rasschaert" <hadescallias@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:22:24 -0000

Salvete omni
> Rogator
> ----------
>
> For this position, I would simply like to endorse all candidates,
with a special word of encouragement for my fellow provincial,
Claudia Putea Pulchra. Most of them are from a "fresher crop" of
citizens, and have shown their dedication in offering themselves as
Rogatores for the upcoming year. I wish all of them a great deal of
luck, perseverance and wisdom, in whatever they do, but more
specifically the upcoming elections.
I agree, this candidate can be a good Rogator and I hope that she
made it inot office of Rogator. Ieblieve she can do a good job even
though I haven't got the time to meet her but I did met her
husband/partner Caius Puteus, who is a great man and I believe that
they both can contribute alot to Nova Roma. So my decission has
already made about who should be the next Rogator.

> Aedilis Plebis
> -----------------
>
> I won't be so falsely modest as to "forget" to mention that I
myself (that's S. Apollonius Draco :-)) am a candidate for this
office. However, in case I would not be voted into office, I know it
will be safe in the skillful hands of my frater T. Apollonius
Cicatrix, and G. Sentius Bruttius Sura. I wish both of them good
luck, and I'd like to let them know that I would rather have had evil
characters as my opponents than these two fine men.
This is difficult one because two of the three candidates arefratres
of the same familia and a good familia should support each other. I
know them both(T. Apollonius Cicatrix and S. Apollonius Draco) and
from my point of view, they are the right person for the job, who
ever of the two gets to be voted into office. I can't really say
something about G. Sentius Bruttius Sura because I don't know him at
all. I also know that you can vote for one person at a time so my
vote for who I believe is the right man for the job as Aedilis Plebis
goes to Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix. Good luck with your future
endauvers, fratres and may the Gods bless you .
Tiberius Apollonius Callias


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Franciscus Apulus Caesar for Curator Araneum
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:15:57 -0500

Salve Franciscus Apulus Caesar,

Part of my own business is professional web design. Your work is excellent.
Although but any professional web designer can through some flash together
and so on. What will this do for Nova Roma?

Now I am not meaning to bash what you propose in any way. A large part of my
own campaign for Aediles Curules consists changing aspects at NovaRoma.org.
Although looking "cool"? I sure hope this is not the only thing you are
basing your campaign on. Heck, I could spice NovaRoma.org up with every web
gadget you could find. But would it still be functional to all citizens, and
serve its purpose to its best extent. Most likely no. All things in
moderation...

If we are both elected I think will be able to able to do much. I too hope
to improve interactivity as apart of bring citizens together in the name of
friendly entertainment. Although for me to support you I will need more to
go on. Please explain in *detail* your plans. Maybe you could start by
telling us how you plan on making NovaRoma.org interactive and "cool".

>Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:

> Franciscus Apulus Caesar omnibus S.P.D.
>
> In the respect of Gods, Rome and Nova Roma Senate and magistrates, I,
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar, Paterfamialias Gens Apula, present my
> candidacy for the Office of CURATOR ARANEUM.
>
> I run yet for the office of Queastor but I just known now the election
> for the thw official Web Master of Nova Roma.org I want serve for every
> Office ... with my features to improve the honourable Nova Roma
> administration.
>
> I'm a professionist web master in my daily life, I work in
> Communication and Multimedial Offices in many italian Pubblic Administrations.
> My Nova Roman portfolio is little, I designed the new website of
> Provincia Italia (screen on
> www.fraelovdesign.f2s.com/provinciaitalia.jpg) and the website of Gens
> Apula www.gensapula.too.it:
> In my professionist portfolio I have this websites too:
> - www.fraelovdesign.f2s.com
> - www.cooplarco.it
> - www.medinforma.it/farm
> - www.malag.f2s.com
> - www.cooperativainforma.it/home.html (under construction)
> - www.valentinisrl.com
> and flash work to Meltin'Pot, radiodervish, etc.
>
> The work of the Curator Araneum M. Octavius Germanicus is perfect but
> we can have a website more "cool" and intercative.
> My aim is improve the design of the official website, restyling the
> sections and the interactive areas. More web services in the site could
> grow the interest and the active partecipation of civis. For example it
> could be possible host the official websites of every provinciae and
> get webspace (maybe paying) to the paterfamilias to build the Gens'
> site. Or I would improve the structure of many pages, rebuilding the
> pinacotecha like a real photo gallery, or the tabularium more clear and
> comprensible, etc.

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Venii Poem
From:	Decimus Antoninius Aquitanius <romalist2@-------->
Date:	Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:27:21 -0500 (EST)

Ave Nova Roma!
Ave Venator!

I enjoyed your poem very much and I thank you for
posting it! May Minerva keep you close with wisdom
and creativity!

Vale!

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com