Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Mere Citizen
From:	AntoniaCorneliaOctavia <europamoon7@-------->
Date:	Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:09:36 -0800 (PST)

--- jmath669642reng@-------- wrote:
> Mistress Antonia Cornelia Octavia;
>
> While I am unable to comment on the thrust of your
> recent message
> regarding the race for Consul, I do have a comment
> about the subject
> term.
>
> The "Mere Citizen" is by law that person who decides
> what and who will
> govern this micronation. It is the "Mere Citizen"
> who is called upon to
> comment, generate ideas, form opinions, share views,
> stand for office,
> cast telling votes, and be active in the provided
> organizations within
> Nova Roma, as they may.
>
> It is the "Mere Citizen" who gives life to this
> micronation, without
> which this organization would be a hollow shell. It
> is the "Mere
> Citizen" who has seen fit to set magistrates upon
> the highest pinnacle
> of government and allow them to garner honors that
> the "Mere Citizens"
> have in thier wisdom and generosity provided to
> such.
>
> Mistress Antonia Octavia, the "Mere Citizen" is the
> vote, the voice, the
> presence, and the energy sought by every
> office-seeker, every office
> holder, every provincial govenor, every sodalitas
> leader, for thier
> interest, voice and activity. It is the "Citizen of
> Nova Roma" who
> makes, decides, determines, and guides the
> micronation of Nova Roma.
> "Mere citizen" mistress?? I most humbly beg to
> differ, but would rather
> say -- "Citizen of Nova Roma-the single most
> effective element of this
> micronation." I believe from reading your
> interesting posts that you
> probably understand what I have said in a general
> way, but I felt that I
> had to say the above. My apologies for correcting
> you in the forum.
>
> Respectfully;
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
>
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Salve Mrcus Minucius Audens,

I understand your post completely. My post came on
the tail end of a personal conversation that I had
just had with Sulla. I mentioned to him that I wanted
to post my endorsement for him but that my opinion
would probably not carry any weight. I did so anyway.
I apoligize for lowering the prestige and dignitas of
each and every valued civis within Nova Roma.

Vale,

Antonia Cornelia Octavia
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Withdraw Of Canidacy
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:09:22 -0500

Salve

Drusus
I hope your father improves soon - my thoughts and prayers are with you at this time.

Vale bene,
Helena Galeria

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Candidates for the office of Censor
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:49:07 -0500

Salve,

>>The office of Censor is an important one, and considerable thought should
be given to who is most suitable for it.>>

In this aspect we agree wholeheartedly. Censor is a very important position
and it is imperative that Nova Roma have the best possible person in office
as such.

>>Two excellent candidates have come forward - one residing in the United
States, one in Europe.>>

I must say, I am dismayed that you have chosen to make geographical location
as issue here. To my mind, we are *one* Nation. I would no more vote for
or against a person due to where they *live* than I would vote based on
their gender, sexual orientation or other irrelevant criteria. When you say
both myself and Diocletianus are excellent candidates I both thank you and
agree. Where we seem to split views is that I do not feel that my abilities
are hampered or enhanced by my status as an American and I find it rather
distasteful that you seem to.

>>While I do not wish to curtail Priscilla Vedia's professional qualities in
any way I think this is, especially for (us) European Cives a unique
opportunity to come out in support for a Censor who actually resides on this
side of the Atlantic.>>

I see. Perhaps our main difference is that when I say *us* I use the term
to Nova Romans. I have made no attempt to factionalize this election and I
am deeply saddened that this seems to be your main agenda. I note that you
state that we are both excellent candidates. You then proceed to encourage
votes for my esteemed opponent, not based on his skills but based on his
geographic location. That is, to my mind, as reprehensible as my attempting
to campaign on the basis of my gender alone. Quite a case to be made there,
eh? A high-ranked female magistrate in Nova Roma *would* be a first. It
would also be refreshing to see a female elevated to the Senate, would it
not? However, my being a woman does not enhance *my* skills one whit more
than the my opponent's residency in Europe enhances his skills.

>>I think we are all aware of the fact that a remote figure many thousand
miles away from the people he/she serves often presents a bit of an
impediment to successful communication, interaction and effectiveness of the
office concerned.>>

I see. You are aware that under the terms of Sulla and Cincinnatus
<Californian and Marylander, respectfully> our Nation has seen unprecedented
growth, are you not? I would point out to you that one of Nova Roma's key
strengths are the bonds built between our cives. I am proud to witness
that taking place on a daily basis in our Nation regardless of geographic
location. Indeed, some of my closest friends and colleagues in this Nation
live hundreds to thousands of miles away from my front door. Funny, that
does not impeded our daily interaction or our abilities to turn in excellent
performance of our duties on a daily basis.

>>This is, I feel, particularly true for the office of Censor - a position
that is very much in need of a 'good wire' to the population.>>

I agree with you. Where we, once again, disagree, is with your apparent
notion that for a Censor to be effective she/he must reside in close
proximity to all citizens. With respect, we *are* a global Nation and such
a suggestion borders on the absurd. Or, perhaps, are you suggesting that an
American cannot or will not represent the needs of European citizens? I
must confess, between the lines of what you wrote I do see such a
possibility, but I will leave it to you to address that issue as you see
fit. The bottom line, in my opinion, is how well the Censor handles their
duties. I know from personal experience that whenever a citizen has
contacted me with a question I have always responded quickly and
efficiently. *That* is something that matters as a Censor. I have taken
great pride in my dealings with citizens this past year. Never once, not
even for a moment, did it enter my mind to question what corner of the globe
he or she was e-mailing from. I simply did my job quickly, efficiently and
politely. Those are qualities that matter far more to the position of
Censor than a street address.

>>Caius Flavius has shown himself to be a gifted administrator as Governor
for the province of Germania; he has earnt the trust of many and is well
received among the Cives of all European provinces, and beyond.>>

Indeed, from my experience with him, my opponent does seem a man of
dedication and intelligence and I have no doubt he is well liked as both
Propraetor and a Senator. I would mention, perhaps immodestly, that I also
have built the trust and good will of many of our citizens through my work
as Curatrix, as well as simply having been a very active citizen since our
Nation was founded. I give both of us credit for our hard work and
dedication, not for the place we happen to live. While I cannot speak for
my opponent, I know the latter had no influence on my dealings within Nova
Roma.

>>As Censor, he would represent an important position within Nova Roma on a
more local level and thereby give weight to the provinces as an important
part of the international community we strive to be.>>

This statement rings very closely in tune to last year's abhorrent
factionalism. As Censor it is an individual's *primary* duty to represent
ALL Nova Romans, whether they reside in Paris France or Paris Texas. Anyone
who seeks such a vital position *must* by definition NOT bow down to
factions, whether they be philosophical, macro national, religious, or any
other reprehensible attempt to divide our Nation and our people. If you,
personally, do not feel that the provinces are given their proper credit, I
am genuinely sorry to hear that but I strenuously disagree. Our provinces
are the lifeblood of our Nation. Through them, our cives have the gift of
being able to organize and attend face to face meetings. I am dismayed at
your words. You appear, and please correct me if I am wrong, to be
advocating "get a European into the position of Censor" as your entire
agenda. In my opinion that is simply wrong. We, as a Nation, need the best
PERSON <note the absence of the terms woman, European, etc from that
description> as our next Censor. I dearly hope that our citizens vote for
the best CANDIDATE, *not* the nearest neighbor, in *either* of our cases.

>>Priscilla Vedia Serena, I salute your honourable and commendable intention
to continue serving the republic; and I can only surmise that it is pure
devotion to Nova Roma that makes you run for more than one office in this
current election and I certainly honor your motion as such.>>

If I thought your commendation were sincere I would thank you for it. Given
the words, that follow, I see that you are merely attempting a veneer of
politeness. You are entirely correct in that it *is* my dedication to Nova
Roma that has led me to seek the office of Curatrix Sermonis in addition to
the office of Censor. Prior to the start of announcing candidacies, I made
the decision to run for the position of Censor, as I am more than qualified
and do, indeed, believe I would bring quite a lot to the position. The
additional candidacy for Curatrix was, in my view, a necessity.

>>However, let not enthusiasm blind your eye to fairness.>>

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to how *my* stepping forward to run for
two positions for which I am eminently qualified is "unfair". While you are
at it, please address your explanation to the following, all of whom also
seek more than one office simultaneously:

Marcus Octavius Germanicus <Consul, Curator Araneum>
Quintus Fabius Maximus <Praetor, Questor>
Franciscus Apulus Caesar <Questor, Curator Araneum>
Marcus Scipiadus Scipio Africanus <Curator Differum, Rogator>

I am sure we *all* await your words on this matter.

>>I am not, mark me, implying that there is anything untoward in your
intentions (I personally believe that all who make the effort of running for
office do so in the best interests of the res publica) ->>

I truly wish I could believe your words are sincere, however given the
remainder of your post this seems, yet again, false politeness.

>>I simply wish to state that there is really no necessity for someone with
a record as accomplished as yours in NR to make a further, and so obvious a
point in running for two offices simultaeneously.>>

There is a definite necessity of my running for the two offices I seek. As
for Censor, quite honestly, and with genuine respect accorded my opponent, I
believe I would make an outstanding Censor. I am more than qualified and
have a number of innovations I would bring to the position, should my
colleague and I agree on them. As for Curatrix Sermonis, the candidacy of
Limitanus *made* it necessary for me to seek another term. It is no secret
that I do not believe he has Nova Roma's best interest at heart. Had
another candidate stepped forward to oppose him, I would have supported them
wholeheartedly and done all I could to see them elected. As it is, I had a
hard decision to make and I made it. Yet another aspect to my character
that I believe serves Nova Roma well.

>>In the end, the voters, you will say, shall decide - and indeed they
will.>>

I will go on record here and now as stating that, no matter how the votes
tally, I hope the Gods see to it that people vote for the *best candidates*.
Not "for" a European or "for" a woman, but FOR Nova ROma. For, in the end,
your divisive words aside, isn't that we are all *here* for?

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Candidate: Censor; Curatrix Sermonis

> Valete,
> Diana Meridia Aurelia
>


Subject:	[novaroma] The current election
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:48:19 -0500

Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.

As a rule, I was not intending to participate in the current election
(beyond the duties of my office, naturally). Indeed, since most of the races
seem to be uncontested, my endorsement of candidates would seem to be
superfluous. However, two races are not only contested, but important enough
to the course our fair Republic will take next year as to demand my comment.

In the race for Praetor, I would urge my fellow cives to cast their vote for
Quintus Fabius Maximus. One of the major planks of my own campaign for
Consul was the need to put into place the civil law code and procedure.
Quintus Fabius has, over the course of this year, compiled an enormous body
of research into what would seem to be a wonderful, historical, and workable
law system. Indeed, the "test case" to make sure the mechanisms had no
glitches was just about to be undertaken when the horrible events of
September 11th took place, our world turned upside down, and Quintus Fabius
found himself with macronational responsibilities that kept him from
completing the task. If for no other reason, he deserves a second term to
complete that all-important project.

Further, I have dealt with Quintus Fabius in many matters in the Senate, and
elsewhere, and have found him to be a knowledgeable individual. More to the
point, when it comes to what Nova Roma can and should be, he is one of the
few here who truly "gets it." I will be voting for him, and I hope you will
as well.

In the race for Censor, I support Priscilla Vedia Serena for the office. Big
surprise, many will say; she is my wife. That may be true, but in my opinion
she is also the best candidate for the job. She has all the qualifications
for the job; she is well-versed in computers, and can thus handle the system
which our esteemed Curator Araneum has put in place. She has the time; all
here can attest to her near-omnipresence this year in moderating this list,
and her job as grade school teacher affords her with significantly more free
time for such activities than other careers might. She has been around Nova
Roma since its inception (before, actually), and her dedication to the
Republic is beyond reproach (even sticking with it when I had resigned my
Citizenship for a time) but is hardly a political insider. She will be a
breath of fresh air in the Senate-- and to have a second woman active
therein will be most welcome.

I will be voting for her as well, and hope you will join me. Diocletianus is
a good man, but not the best person for this particular job.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Venii Poem
From:	Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Sat, 01 Dec 2001 00:16:55 -0600

Avete Omnes,

I should like to thank all those who had such kind words for my effort. If anyone wishes to
post elsewhere my poor attempt, at putting to words the untellable, please do so.

I am working on a ritual to give Honor and Worship to Minerva. It will be written in the same
format as my rites to the Northern Holy Ones. I shall post it here when it is finished.

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html

002 Mind's reach should have, no bounds in search
For meaning and wit, riddles to solve
To seek and think, are greatest skills
In mankind's grasp, oftimes unused
- Piparskeggrsmal, Book 2


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Mere Citizen
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Sat, 01 Dec 2001 07:13:43 -0000

---Salvete Claudi et Alii:

I think this is going to go down as a very famous statement in the
history of our res publica:

"well said.....Marcius Minucius".

Such a wise and virtuous man, a friend (and Praefectus!) whom I
personally hold very dear to my heart.

When he talks, I listen......and I am all the richer for it. :)

Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia

In novaroma@--------, Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Well said Marcus Minucius! The beauty of this nation is the citizens
indeed.
> I thank you for posting this up as a reminder to us all during these
> elections that it's the citizens of this nation that make us what we
are,
> Nova Roma. Every citizen has something to offer to the res publica
in their
> own unique way, let us not forget this.
>
> Vale,
>
> "Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
> "Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of
virtues"
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Candidate for Aediles Curules
> Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
>
> ( I am running for Aediles Curules. Please visit my campaign website
at
> http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm )
>
> Canada Orientalis Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
> --
>
> >Marcus Minucius Audens at jmath669642reng@-------- --------e:
> >
> > The "Mere Citizen" is by law that person who decides what and who
will
> > govern this micronation. It is the "Mere Citizen" who is called
upon to
> > comment, generate ideas, form opinions, share views, stand for
office,
> > cast telling votes, and be active in the provided organizations
within
> > Nova Roma, as they may.
> >
> > It is the "Mere Citizen" who gives life to this micronation,
without
> > which this organization would be a hollow shell. It is the "Mere
> > Citizen" who has seen fit to set magistrates upon the highest
pinnacle
> > of government and allow them to garner honors that the "Mere
Citizens"
> > have in thier wisdom and generosity provided to such.
> >
> > Mistress Antonia Octavia, the "Mere Citizen" is the vote, the
voice, the
> > presence, and the energy sought by every office-seeker, every
office
> > holder, every provincial govenor, every sodalitas leader, for
thier
> > interest, voice and activity. It is the "Citizen of Nova Roma"
who
> > makes, decides, determines, and guides the micronation of Nova
Roma.
> > "Mere citizen" mistress?? I most humbly beg to differ, but would
rather
> > say -- "Citizen of Nova Roma-the single most effective element of
this
> > micronation." I believe from reading your interesting posts that
you
> > probably understand what I have said in a general way, but I felt
that I
> > had to say the above. My apologies for correcting you in the
forum.


Subject:	[novaroma] Gratias ago
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Fri, 30 Nov 2001 06:44:40 +0100

Salvete omnes,

I would like to say a big "thank you" for everyone who has endorsed my candidacy. I can only hope to sincerely return the favour one day.

Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco

<< PETITOR AEDILIS PLEBIS >>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Mere Citizen
From:	"Kanat Elibol" <rapax@-------->
Date:	Sat, 01 Dec 2001 12:36:16 -0000

Salve
Being a mere citizen myself,I'd like to thank you for your
comments.In your posts I've always found common sense,logic,
wisdom and the voice of an honorable man.
This mere citizen is definately going to vote for you!
Vale
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
---------------------------------------------------
> Mistress Antonia Cornelia Octavia;
>
> While I am unable to comment on the thrust of your recent message
> regarding the race for Consul, I do have a comment about the subject
> term.
>
> The "Mere Citizen" is by law that person who decides what and who
will
> govern this micronation. It is the "Mere Citizen" who is called
upon to
> comment, generate ideas, form opinions, share views, stand for
office,
> cast telling votes, and be active in the provided organizations
within
> Nova Roma, as they may.
>
> It is the "Mere Citizen" who gives life to this micronation, without
> which this organization would be a hollow shell. It is the "Mere
> Citizen" who has seen fit to set magistrates upon the highest
pinnacle
> of government and allow them to garner honors that the "Mere
Citizens"
> have in thier wisdom and generosity provided to such.
>
> Mistress Antonia Octavia, the "Mere Citizen" is the vote, the
voice, the
> presence, and the energy sought by every office-seeker, every office
> holder, every provincial govenor, every sodalitas leader, for thier
> interest, voice and activity. It is the "Citizen of Nova Roma" who
> makes, decides, determines, and guides the micronation of Nova Roma.
> "Mere citizen" mistress?? I most humbly beg to differ, but would
rather
> say -- "Citizen of Nova Roma-the single most effective element of
this
> micronation." I believe from reading your interesting posts that
you
> probably understand what I have said in a general way, but I felt
that I
> had to say the above. My apologies for correcting you in the forum.
>
> Respectfully;
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[novaroma] Curator Sermonem : a political choice
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	01 Dec 2001 13:12:08 -0200

Salvete,

back from a workshop I discovered to my surprise who was my opponent in
this election. Clearly you are placed in front of a political choice.

We are totally opposed on the following points:

Language Policy.
My ooponent is the responsible for the infamous language policy that was
imposed to this list this year.
This language policy created de facto two classes of citizens:
- The ones that are free to express their thoughts on this list as they
come to them (all natural anglophones)
- The ones that must twist their thoughts into a foreign language,
obviously this hinders the free expression of their thoughts.
It is true that they have also the possibility of writing them twice,
first in their natural language and the translating them to a foreign
one, which only forces them to a huge overhead of work. This still is
discriminatory.

Vedia's list is twisting NR to a (mostly) Northern American (less
Mexico) NovaRoma.
I want a Universal NovaRoma where all citizen whatever their natural
language is, are treated equally.
Latin will be the official language of the list and ALL vernacular
languages will be equally tolerated.

Romans you have to choose between a Universal NR and a NorthAmerican NR.

Censorship:

Right at the the beginning of her term Vedia did, illegally, stop
discussions on this list (first on Republic/Democracy, then on the
Language Policy). She was vetoed by a tribune in the second case.
Several citizen have been subjected to previous censorship (called
"moderated"), clearly an anti-democratic practise for expressing thei
ideas. At least one (me) has been effectively censored for a political
reason: asking for the removal of charge of the Curatrix and the Senior
Consul. From some reactions on the list it seems that other peoples (btw
my opponents) have been treated the same way. ALL those acts are
attempting to the freedom of speech principle.

As indicated in my declaration of candidature, my positions on those
points are quite the opposite: Freedom of Speech for all on
all subjects. If a citizen attacks the private life of another citizen,
the case will be deffered to the praetors for a juridical sanction.
If this sanction implies an action on the list, the action will be
taken.
I will not be the legislative/juridicional/executive power on this list,
quite the opposite of what Vedia did this year.

Romans you are facing a choice: Freedom or Censorship.

Technical:
This year, this list experienced several technical problems due to the
fusion of yahoo with egroups. Many citizens didn t receive the mails
from the list.
What did Vedia to resolve the problem: nothing known.
A group of citizens, when faced with this problem tried to encounter a
solution and build up the indenpendance of NovaRoma. Vedia dissalowed
them publicly.
If elect, I will encourage the independance of NR and revive this group
of citizens. We NEED an independant vehicle. When something goes wrong
with OUR vehicle, you will know who is responsible: I.

Romans you have a choice: Independance or submission to the aleas of a
foreign vehicle of speech.

Finally, Romans, please choose to vote, for any candidate, but vote
this is the basis of our democracy.

Salvete,

Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Candidates for the office of Censor
From:	"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:05:06 +0100

Ave Diana, Priscilla, Diocletianus et omnes!

I see that the endorsement Diana was trying to make is based on a wrong choice of words. I quite recently became a civis and have been active from day one, on a daily basis too. I have to admit I saw some interventions of Priscilla on the main list and I am sure there are others that received individual mails as procedure proscribes to the Curatrix. In that, I respect the work she has accomplished.

Being a European myself, I have no problem working with people from the 'New World', I have established friendship relations with some of them, and I chat with people from Australia to Argentinia. To us - Nova Romans - the world is our home. This point of view is actually quite accurate for a Roman: the stoics shared our universalism based on philosophical terms too. Just to mention Dio being European, is quite inadequate to support him.

However, there are other possibilities to endorse his candidacy. I have not yet had the pleasure to look at the daily work of either Dio or Priscilla, nor could I witness their activities as senatores. What I did witness is Diocletianus' very active and accurate way of dealing with problems as Propraetor Germaniae Superioris. His interventions on the provincial list, his edicta and his appointments make it clear that Germania Superior is a growing province with a lot of potential. Take a look at the website of Germania and you will be able to convince yourself.

I would like to endorse Diocletianus as censor, since I am convinced that his work is of good quality. He takes his activities very seriously. I would also like to endorse Priscilla as Curatrix Sermonis, since she has proven to be both very present, acting with wisdom in dealing with arguments and taking her duty seriously as well.

I hope that Priscilla will calm down a bit, before reacting to me as she did to Diana. I think that, if attacked, please don't react immediately, think about it and save the mail in your drafts before sending it is - in one way or another - a very good advise she gave all of us at the main list and the codebook she wrote for the use of it.

Dio for Censor, Priscilla for Curatrix!

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Puteus Germanicus
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris GERMANIA INFERIOR IS NOT GERMANIA SUPERIOR, SO I'M NOT DEFENDING MY OWN PROPRAETOR HERE!!!!
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=20=5Bnovaroma=5D=20Does=20NR=20web=20master=20know=3F?=
From:	tiberius.ann@--------
Date:	Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:45:04 +0100

Salvete omnes,

Just a further note for those who want to know exactly. gens has feminine
grammatical gender and therefore the gens names are in feminine form.

gens Annaea / Octavia etc.

Valete, Tiberius Annaeus Otho

-- Original-Nachricht --

>Salve Prima Ritulia,
>
>This is as it should be. Gens names are feminine... Octavia, Cornelia,
>Claudia, etc., regardless of the gender of the paterfamilias or
>materfamilias.
>
>At the main Album Gentium page, http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/gentes,
>the first column contains the always-feminine gens name, and the
>second column contains the PF or MF name, with appropriate word endings
>for that person's gender.
>
>Vale, O.
>
>> I went into NR�s citizens� album today and noticed something odd about
>
>> it. I do not know if the web master knows or not but the majority of
the
>
>> families names are conjugated to the feminine. I thought it might be
good
>
>> to let people know about this error. Unless I am missing something in
>the
>> conjugation and they are in the plural or something.
>
>M. Octavius Germanicus
>Curator Araneum et Senator
>Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
>http://www.konoko.net/~haase/
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

________________________________________
E-Mail for everyone! http://www.bluemail.ch/ powered by Bluewin!


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Candidates for the office of Censor
From:	"Diana Meridia Aurelia" <dhartig@-------->
Date:	Sat, 01 Dec 2001 17:38:35 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@g...> wrote:
> Salve,

From: "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------&--------br> Date: Sat Dec 1, 2001 2:49 am
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Candidates for the office of Censor

Salve, Priscilla Vedia Serena,

I was sure my comments would elicit a reply from you, although I did
not necessariliy expect it turn into such an issue.

>>Two excellent candidates have come forward - one residing
> in the United States, one in Europe.>>

> I must say, I am dismayed that you have chosen to make
> geographical location as issue here.

I was merely stating that in order to highlight this particular
aspect to the voters - not, as you imply, to show that I thought Nova
Roma was to be seen as NR America/NR Europe (/NR Asia, etc.) - that
is, seperate entities.

> To my mind, we are *one* Nation.

I never said anything to contradict that, and it is also my view.
Yet, as in ancient Rome - this one nation is made up of people from
many different cultural and geographical backgrounds that all, to an
extent, demand their due. However hard we may try - there will always
be differences between American/English/Protuguese/French (to name
but a few) Nova Romans and the individual way in which they view one
and the same issue.
There is nothing wrong with this, it is natural and to be expected.
Only if we do not accept this will we run into trouble.

> I would no more vote for or against a person due to where
> they *live* than I would vote based on their gender, sexual
> orientation or other irrelevant criteria.

I think to compare the issues of 'location of residence' to 'gender
or sexual orientation' is a bit far fetched.

> Where we seem to split views is that I do not feel that
> my abilities are hampered or enhanced by my status as an
> American and I find it rather distasteful that you seem to.

Did I attack your nationality ?
I don't think so. Please don't overreact.

> I see. Perhaps our main difference is that when I
> say *us* I use the term to Nova Romans.

You may have noticed I put the term 'us' in brackets: However, I will
readily admit that I see myself as a 'European civis of the
international community of Nova Roma'. Until the day the American and
European continents decide to merge and form one this will very
likely remain so.

> I have made no attempt to factionalize this election and I
> am deeply saddened that this seems to be your main agenda.

Oh, are you really ?
And as to my 'agenda' (a bit of a high-flying term, isn't it ?) - I
have none. I've got better and more productive things to do than to
construct 'agendas' for political squabbling.

> You then proceed to encourage votes for my esteemed opponent,
> not based on his skills but based on his geographic location.
> That is, to my mind, as reprehensible as my attempting to
> campaign on the basis of my gender alone. Quite a case to be
> made there, eh?

No.

<Snip>

> It would also be refreshing to see a female elevated to the
> Senate, would it not?

Being a woman myself, I can only agree with you.

> However, my being a woman does not enhance *my* skills one
> whit more than the my opponent's residency in Europe enhances
> his skills.

Caius Flavius' - and your - skills, are, as I said before, NOT
subject to geographical location. His skills, and yours, would remain
untouched by my consideration even if, geographically, you swapped
places.

> You are aware that under the terms of Sulla and Cincinnatus
<Californian and Marylander, respectfully> our Nation has seen
> unprecedented growth, are you not?

Absolutely. Again, I never questioned that.

> I would point out to you that one of Nova Roma's
> key strengths are the bonds built between our cives.

On a local as well as on an international level.

<Snip>

> Indeed, some of my closest friends and colleagues in this
> Nation live hundreds to thousands of miles away from my
> front door.

So do mine.

> Funny, that does not impeded our daily interaction or
> our abilities to turn in excellent performance of our
> duties on a daily basis.

That may be so. But I am sure you will agree with me that the actual
physical presence of a high representative of the state in any one
region - in particular if it's somewhat removed from the central
government - can do a lot of good in terms of direct interaction of
population and state.

> Where we, once again, disagree, is with your apparent notion
> that for a Censor to be effective she/he must reside in close
> proximity to all citizens.

Hardly possible, as you are well aware of.
That would mean, in the case of censor, appointing one for at least
every individual continent to deal with the resident local population.

> With respect, we *are* a global Nation and such a suggestion
> borders on the absurd.

See above.

> Or, perhaps, are you suggesting that an American cannot or
> will not represent the needs of European citizens?

I did not suggest anything like that. You do.

> I must confess, between the lines of what you wrote I
> do see such a possibility, but I will leave it to you
> to address that issue as you see fit.

Maybe you should read less 'between the lines', as the lines
themselves.
You are constructing an issue where there is none.

<snip>

> I would mention, perhaps immodestly, that I also have built
> the trust and good will of many of our citizens through my work
> as Curatrix, as well as simply having been a very active citizen
> since our Nation was founded.

You past efforts and the work you have done for Nova Roma so far have
NEVER been an issue in my post.
Nor would they be if you lived in the Kongo or at the North Pole.

> I give both of us credit for our hard work and dedication,
> not for the place we happen to live.

So do I.

<Snip>

> This statement rings very closely in tune to last
> year's abhorrent factionalism.

If you wish to see it like that ...

> As Censor it is an individual's *primary* duty to represent
> ALL Nova Romans, whether they reside in Paris France or Paris
> Texas.

Agreed

> Anyone who seeks such a vital position *must* by definition
> NOT bow down to factions, whether they be philosophical, macro
> national, religious, or any other reprehensible attempt to divide
> our Nation and our people.

I see you are attempting to pull Praetor Diocletianus into this. Now,
let me make it plain to you and all who read this that I am NOT
speaking for him, acting on his orders or that he in any way endorses
my actions in regard to my support for his candidancy. These are my
words, my opinions - nobody else's.

> If you, personally, do not feel that the provinces are given
> their proper credit, I am genuinely sorry to hear that but I
> strenuously disagree.

Let's just acknowledge that our respective viewpoints are different,
which, as I mentioned above - is normal and also what makes our
nation a diverse and alive community and not a homogeneous multitude
mouthing the same words, opinions, sentiments.

> Our provinces are the lifeblood of our Nation.

Very true.

<snip>

> I am dismayed at your words.

I am genuinely sorry for causing you so much grief, Priscilla; and
all in a single post.

> You appear, and please correct me if I am wrong, to be
> advocating "get a European into the position of Censor"
> as your entire agenda.

I am advocating 'why not get a European into the position of
Censor ?' - and this not, I hate to repeat this, as part of my
mysterious 'agenda'. It is merely a suggestion to give thought to,
nothing more.

> In my opinion that is simply wrong.

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

<snip>

> I dearly hope that our citizens vote for the best
> CANDIDATE, *not* the nearest neighbor, in *either*
> of our cases.

I firmly believe that our citizens are capable of making up their own
minds about what is said in this forum. Don't you ?

> If I thought your commendation were sincere I would thank you for
it.

It IS sincere, regardless of what you think about it. That I cannot
influence.

> Given the words, that follow, I see that you are merely
> attempting a veneer of politeness.

If you wish to see it like that ....

> You are entirely correct in that it *is* my dedication
> to Nova Roma that has led me to seek the office of Curatrix
> Sermonis in addition to the office of Censor.

I am certainly glad to hear that I was right about one thing.

>snip>

> Perhaps you could enlighten me as to how *my* stepping
> forward to run for two positions for which I am eminently
> qualified is "unfair".

'Unfair', as this term obviously piques you - in the case of you
winning both offices and perhaps, then, not being able to fulfill
either position's demands adequately. Unfairness, then, towards the
citizens and their right to the service they have voted for you to
render them.
It is no news that the position of Censor is an extremely demanding
one - and, frankly, I cannot see how you (or anybody) would be able
to juggle such a workload successfully in concert with another office
that also demands due attention.

> There is a definite necessity of my running for the two
> offices I seek. As for Censor, quite honestly, and with
> genuine respect accorded my opponent, I believe I would
> make an outstanding Censor.

>From a purely professional point of view I agree with you - although
I am rather suspicious of people who sing their own praises.

>snip>

> It is no secret that I do not believe he has Nova Roma's
> best interest at heart.

I see not all are as 'naive' as myself in regard to other people's
intentions ...

> Had another candidate stepped forward to oppose him,
> I would have supported them wholeheartedly and done all
> I could to see them elected.

'done all I could to see them elected' ?

> As it is, I had a hard decision to make and I made it.
> Yet another aspect to my character that I believe serves Nova Roma
well.

<snip>

> I will go on record here and now as stating that, no matter
> how the votes tally, I hope the Gods see to it that people
> vote for the *best candidates*.

I am sure the Gods (and the voters) will do as they see fit,
Priscilla.

<snip>

> For, in the end, your divisive words aside, isn't that we are all
*here* for?

I will ignore the 'divisive words' here because I am not aware of
having uttered any. Your reply, however, and I am sorry to say, is
full of them and accusations of my supposed 'factionalist agenda'.
To this, I have tried to reply as honestly and directly as possible -
despite the impression of insincerity you appear to be having of me.
But, as I said, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Optime vale,
Diana Meridia Aurelia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Candidates for the office of Censor
From:	Lucilla Cornelia Cinna <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Sat, 01 Dec 2001 20:45:19 +0100

Salve Priscilla Vedia Serena Curatrix Semornis

JusticeCMO wrote:

>I must say, I am dismayed that you have chosen to make geographical location
>as issue here.
>
Priscilla Vedia, it is you who makes the election of a Censor a USA vs.
Europe issue, not us. To us, the possibility to have one Censor in
Northern America and another in in Europe is a matter of global thinking.
I wholeheartedly agree with Diana Meridia on this and I am sure many
others do, too. It is an issue apart from your and Dio's merits, but one
that has to be considered if both are valued as equal candidates.

I was really surprised by your post, the tone is rash and saucy, so much
unlike the Priscilla Vedia Serena (!) I know from many postings on this
list. Right after Marcus Minucius Audens posted his laudatio and
encomium of the "mere citizen" I see a mere citizen using his right to
raise his/her voice to endorse a candidate, being cut short by the
competitor candidate - if I may say so, Prima Domina veneranda, there is
no offence intended.

In the end, the voters will decide, the mere citizens. Please leave them
the right to raise their voice and express their opinions, stand their
words of praise as well as censure, and leave it to the voters, the mere
citizens, to decide.

You are right, Priscilla Vedia, another active woman in the senate would
be a boon. But this is a point like the one you generally opposed to in
your reply to Diana Meridia as "irrelevant criteria". To be a "woman" is
a general quality that does not make anyone a good or competent person
by itself. An appropriate candidate who accidentally is a woman at the
same time and equal in her qualities for the job and in her dignitas to
her competitor, will certainly be preferred by me. But unfortunately, I
don't see that equality. Priscilla Vedia Prima Domina veneranda, you are
a Cives Privata jumping to the position with the highest grade of
Dignitas. This is conflicting with ancient Roman habits - the candidate
had to have hold a high magistrate - usually a consulate. And it has
nothing to do with sex or gender. I am sorry to say this: the candacy of
a homo privatus was completely out of question.
And no abilities, capabilities and merits could compensate for this
deficiency in ancient Rome.

I am sorry, if I offend you, Priscilla Vedia, your outstanding merits
are your service as Curatrix Sermonem - and that has nothing to do with
your being female, US-American, the honored wife of Flavius Vedius
Germanicus Consul, the Prima Domina veneranda, or anything alike. My
decision to vote for your competitor Caius Flavius Diocletianus Senator
Praetor propraetor Provinciae Germaniae is based on three assumptions of
mine: C. Flavius Diocletionus is certainly not only an equal competing
candidate, his censorate will emphasize the globality of the Civitas
NovaRomana, and it is a historic fact and a matter of accuracy in
reconstructing Roma to keep to as many as possible of the basic habits
of the Civitas Romana Antiqua like the idea that dignitas is gained and
increased through the Cursus Honorum. Even homines novi like Marius,
Cicero and many others had to start as Quaestores and Tribunes.

Di deaeque te bene protegant.

Lucilla Cornelia Cinna _
====================== \\
Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori /\~/\ / )
Propraetori Provinciae Germaniae ( )~~~----...,, __/ /
Procuratrix Provinciae Germaniae \` �/ /
Retaria Sodalitatis Egressus \v/ _____( |
Musaea collegiorum Calliopes Cliusque / \| |~~~~� \ \ \
Sodalitatis Musarum ( ( | | ) /\ )
Civis NovaRomana \_\| | _/ / _| |
Auctrix Bibliotheca Germaniae /__/ /__/ /__/
http://www.BibliothecaGermanica.de/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Candidates for the office of Censor
From:	<3s@-------->
Date:	Sat, 1 Dec 2001 14:01:53 -0600 (CST)

Caius Flavius Diocletianus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete Priscilla Vedia, Diana Meridia, Gaius Puteus.

Citizens, what you read in this thread is quite typical for election campaigns. We see Candidates and citizens supporting the candidates with a load of differenz arguments.

What I read between Priscilla Vedia and Diana Meridia is, for the current campaign, untypical, but it was one year ago. That campaign was quite harder.

Diana Meridia Aurelia offered her thoughts and arguments, and Priscilla Vedia answered, harshly. All who know Diana Meridia know that she is a honest, but also open citizen.

Citizens, decide yourself: Was that harsh reaction correct? Last year there was a candidate for Censor from Europe, too. He too argued that it could be better for Nova Roma to have one Censor in Europe, and nobody argued against this. I personally think that there�s no factionalism in this argument.

Priscilla Vedia did a good job as Curatrix Sermonem, and I�m sure that she will continue to do so. Nobody argued against her merits and experiences. We all agree that we are a global micronation with a variety of people. We all are dedicated to true Romanitas, and that means: to the roman virtues.

There is a section about the roman virtues in the Nova Roma website (Via Romana -- Virtues). There all personal and public virtues are listed. Especially Comitas, Humanitas, Clementia, Severitas, Aequitas. I invite all Romans to read what these virtues mean.

Personally, I always tried to obey the virtues, in my private and public life, both real-life and in Nova Roma. I�m not quite sure whether I achieve that or not, this is a point where you can make up your minds.

It�s not necessary to comment or remark the arguments from both sides, I simpy invite you to respect each other, as I respect all citizens of Nova Roma. This is a behaviour a future higher magistrate should have, besides experiences in political and administrative businesses, besides competence and correctness.

That�s also Romanitas.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Governor of Germania
Candidate for Censor


Subject:	AW: [novaroma] The current election
From:	<3s@-------->
Date:	Sat, 1 Dec 2001 14:40:26 -0600 (CST)

Salvete Quirites.

Our honoured Consul Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

>>snip<<

In the race for Censor, I support Priscilla Vedia Serena for the office.
Big
surprise, many will say; she is my wife. That may be true, but in my
opinion
she is also the best candidate for the job. She has all the qualifications
for the job; she is well-versed in computers, and can thus handle the
system
which our esteemed Curator Araneum has put in place. She has the time; all
here can attest to her near-omnipresence this year in moderating this list,
and her job as grade school teacher affords her with significantly more
free
time for such activities than other careers might. She has been around Nova
Roma since its inception (before, actually), and her dedication to the
Republic is beyond reproach (even sticking with it when I had resigned my
Citizenship for a time) but is hardly a political insider. She will be a
breath of fresh air in the Senate-- and to have a second woman active
therein will be most welcome.

I will be voting for her as well, and hope you will join me. Diocletianus
is
a good man, but not the best person for this particular job.
---

CFD comments:

Fine, Flavi Vedi, that you call me a good man. I awaited somewhat more harshly.

You gave us a new argument: Teacher vs. Deputy Mayor. Perhaps your wife will have more free time. Perhaps she is able to be present most time (btw: Will she be teacher next year, too?).

I shall not say, Flavi Vedi, that a Censor is authorized to appoint Scribae. Because of this, the Censor must have a certain degree of experiences in managing not only databases, files, records, but also people.

A breath of fresh air? This is also possible by Pompeia Cornelia Strabo, also as second woman.

During the last year�s campaign, Flavi Vedi, we discussed about the cursus honorum. You argued against the former Candidate for Censor that he had not filled out a magistracy with imperium, like Praetor or Consul. One current Candidate fits this (unwritten, of course) requirement.

Furthermore: I fulfilled also a form of real-life cursus honorum: Military service in an elite unit, then raising, step by step, to Deputy Mayor today, a position I reached with 31 years, without being member of a political party.

The time argument: Anyone aho runs for an office should make up his mind wether he have enough time to fulfill the office or not. Personally, I made up my mind, that�s also the reason why I needed some particualr time. Because I thought about my candidacy. Let the time problem be mine.
Btw: If your wife would win both offices, Censor and Curator Sermonem, would she have enough time for the Censor�s office? Curator Sermonem requires omnipresence on the mainlist.

Flavi Vedi, you should not feel offended by my words, as I feel not offended by yours. Keep it as it is: a political election campaign.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Governor of Germania
Candidate for Censor

---

Your are all invited to visit: www.diocletian.de/elect/diocletianus/


Subject:	[novaroma] New Provincial Website
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Sat, 01 Dec 2001 15:37:44 -0500

Salvete cives et amici,

The old host for the Canada Orientalis provincial website has gone under.
They have informed me that they will give us a chance to transfer our files
to a different server. Although no updates can be made to these files until
they are moved off of their server. Because of this I have moved our
provincial website to a different company called Brinkster.

I am really sorry for any inconvenience this may of caused. It was a pain to
have to transfer all the files over and so on. I hope we have better luck
with the new host I have selected.

The new address for the provincial website is:

http://www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

If you bookmarked the old site please remember to update your bookmarks to
the new URL.

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--


Subject:	[novaroma] re: Curator Sermonem : a political choice
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:08:15 +0100

Salve Honorable Manius Villius Limitanus!

Jag undrar hur Du har t�nkt l�sa problemet med att folk skriver p� sitt
eget spr�k? N�r jag nu skriver p� svenska, vad tror Du att folk i allm�nhet
f�r ut av det? �ven om Du �r ett spr�kgeni s� �r alla inte det. Jag tar
inte upp detta f�r att provocera, utan d�rf�r att jag inte f�rst�r hur Du
t�nker.

There is a translation below. Please don't read it! Just answer my message
above!

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule

CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

Translation to English:

I wonder how You have planned to solve the problem with people writing in
their own language? Now when I am writing in Swedish. what do You think
that people in general will get out of it? Even if You are a language
genius not everybody else are. I don' bring this up to provocate, but
because I don't understand how You think!

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule

CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN: The Comitia Plebis Tributa are Convened
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Sat, 01 Dec 2001 16:12:35 -0600

Tribunus Plebis Titus Labienus Fortunatus Plebibus salutem plurimam dicit

The Comitia Plebis Tributa are hereby convened to elect magistrates for
the year MMDCCLV a.u.c.

The election shall take place beginning at 6:00 PM Saturday December
8th, and shall last until 6:00 PM, Sunday December 16th, official Nova
Roma time (Subtract 1 hour for GMT, 6 hours for North America/Eastern).

In the event that candidates are not selected for all available offices,
a second election shall take place using the same list of candidates,
with the names of the winners of the first election omitted. This
second election shall begin at 6:00 PM, Thursday December 20th, and
shall end at 6:00 PM, Friday December 28th, official Nova Roma time.

The following are the candidates, listed here in the order in which they
declared their intention to stand for office:

AEDILIS PLEBIS:
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Sextus Apollonius Draco
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

TRIBUNUS PLEBIS:
Gnaeus Salix Astur
Marcus Arminius Maior

More information about the candidates can be found at
http://www.novaroma.org/election/2754/

I strongly encourage all cives to vote. Suffragium tuum est vox tua.

Valete


Subject:	[novaroma] R: [novaroma_europe] Curator Sermonem : a political choice
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@-------->
Date:	Sat, 1 Dec 2001 19:39:09 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Manio Villio Limitano S.P.D.

I'm impressed for your declaration, your election will one step for a real
internazionalization of Nova Roma. You're right Nova Roma isn't just North
America (less latin than Europe and SouthAmerica too) and I remember ancient
romans accepted all the aspects of the other conquered cultures.
I support and vote you.

This i s my very little and humble endorsements:
CENSOR: Caius Flavius Diocletianus
I talked with Caius about many matters and often we discussed for different
positions, but he impressed me and his words were even experienced and wise.

TRIBUNUS PLEBIS: Gnaeus Salix Astur
He is a very very intelligent and good cives. He helped the italici civis to
find our way in the costruction of Provincia Italia in the last months. He
show us the experience of Provincia Hispania and I look well his work on the
website and in our mailing list. He is italian but live in Hispania ... It's
too displeasing you aren't in our Provincia, Gnaeo!

QUAESTOR: Gaius Quirinus Italicus Caesar
So, I'm candidated for the Office of Quaestor too but if I'll must vote for
one my vote will for Gaius Quirinus Italicus. We're working togheter to
relunch Provincia Italia and I found a good active cives. He have the skills
to be a magistrate and run the cursus honorum.

CURATOR ARANEUM: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
:-))) I know my chances of win is very low but I'm trying because it need to
move the stopped sea!

CURATOR SERMONIS: Manius Villius Limitanus
The declaration is very good ...

Sorry for the others, I'm pleased but this is my personal opinion. Please
you mustn't see me bad! Peace

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia
Paterfamilias Gens Apula
www.gensapula.too.it
----------------------------------------
Alme Sol ... Possis Nihil Urbe Roma Visere Maius

----- Original Message -----
From: Michel Loos <loos@-------->
To: <novaroma_europe@-------->
Cc: <nrbrasil@-------->; NRV <NovaromaVizantia@-------->
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 4:27 PM
Subject: [novaroma_europe] Curator Sermonem : a political choice

> Salvete,
>
> back from a workshop I discovered to my surprise who was my opponent in
> this election. Clearly you are placed in front of a political choice.
>
> We are totally opposed on the following points:
>
> Language Policy.
> My ooponent is the responsible for the infamous language policy that was
> imposed to this list this year.
> This language policy created de facto two classes of citizens:
> - The ones that are free to express their thoughts on this list as they
> come to them (all natural anglophones)
> - The ones that must twist their thoughts into a foreign language,
> obviously this hinders the free expression of their thoughts.
> It is true that they have also the possibility of writing them twice,
> first in their natural language and the translating them to a foreign
> one, which only forces them to a huge overhead of work. This still is
> discriminatory.
>
> Vedia's list is twisting NR to a (mostly) Northern American (less
> Mexico) NovaRoma.
> I want a Universal NovaRoma where all citizen whatever their natural
> language is, are treated equally.
> Latin will be the official language of the list and ALL vernacular
> languages will be equally tolerated.
>
> Romans you have to choose between a Universal NR and a NorthAmerican NR.
>
> Censorship:
>
> Right at the the beginning of her term Vedia did, illegally, stop
> discussions on this list (first on Republic/Democracy, then on the
> Language Policy). She was vetoed by a tribune in the second case.
> Several citizen have been subjected to previous censorship (called
> "moderated"), clearly an anti-democratic practise for expressing thei
> ideas. At least one (me) has been effectively censored for a political
> reason: asking for the removal of charge of the Curatrix and the Senior
> Consul. From some reactions on the list it seems that other peoples (btw
> my opponents) have been treated the same way. ALL those acts are
> attempting to the freedom of speech principle.
>
> As indicated in my declaration of candidature, my positions on those
> points are quite the opposite: Freedom of Speech for all on
> all subjects. If a citizen attacks the private life of another citizen,
> the case will be deffered to the praetors for a juridical sanction.
> If this sanction implies an action on the list, the action will be
> taken.
> I will not be the legislative/juridicional/executive power on this list,
> quite the opposite of what Vedia did this year.
>
> Romans you are facing a choice: Freedom or Censorship.
>
>
> Technical:
> This year, this list experienced several technical problems due to the
> fusion of yahoo with egroups. Many citizens didn t receive the mails
> from the list.
> What did Vedia to resolve the problem: nothing known.
> A group of citizens, when faced with this problem tried to encounter a
> solution and build up the indenpendance of NovaRoma. Vedia dissalowed
> them publicly.
> If elect, I will encourage the independance of NR and revive this group
> of citizens. We NEED an independant vehicle. When something goes wrong
> with OUR vehicle, you will know who is responsible: I.
>
>
> Romans you have a choice: Independance or submission to the aleas of a
> foreign vehicle of speech.
>
>
> Finally, Romans, please choose to vote, for any candidate, but vote
> this is the basis of our democracy.
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Spread the word about our group! Together we are stronger! And remember
... the more people, the more fun!
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> novaroma_europe-unsubscribe@--------
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Endorsement
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gaius=20Quirinus=20Caesar?= <gaius_quirinus_caesar@-------->
Date:	Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:14:58 +0100 (CET)

Salvete omnes,
we're in the campaign period than this is my
endorsements for these offices:

Tribunus Plebis:
Gn Salix Astur
he's one of the best cives i know: i think he can be
one of the best Tribuni we have evere seen before!

Quaestor, Curator Araneum:
Fr Apulus Caesar
he is my compatriot than i had a lot of time to know
him and to understand that he is a really good person:
since we start to rebuilt our Provincia he had ever
done an exellent work and i think he could give a good
service to our Res Publica

Valete,
Gaius Quirinus Caesar

______________________________________________________________________

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Per saperne di pi� vai alla pagina: http://buongiorno.yahoo.it


Subject:	[novaroma] Withdrawal Of Citizenship
From:	Valerian75@--------
Date:	Sat, 1 Dec 2001 16:02:20 EST

Salvete! Lucia Ambrosia Valeria sends Greetings To All!!

Due to a busy schedule, I have no time to dedicate to Nova Roma and do not
wish to sit back and just read through e-mails all day. I have enjoyed my
time as a citizen and have tried to do what I can as Legatus to the DC area.
I wish to thank Gens Ambrosia and the rest of Nova Roma for welcoming me. My
thanks also to Consul Flavius Vedius Germanicus for the opportunity as
Legatus. I hope to be able to join again when more time is available. May
the Gods protect and guide each one of you.

Many Blessings,
Lucia Ambrosia Valeria
Valerian75@--------


Subject:	[novaroma] Languages
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Sat, 01 Dec 2001 18:18:51 -0500

Salvete cives et amici,

I am all for freedom of speech, equality, and so on. Although I question the
ability of this list to be fully moderated if other languages are spoken
here. I don't look at it as a freedom of speech issue either. It comes down
to the language the majority of our citizens are able to communicate in,
English.

If our moderator cannot understand all the languages of the world how is
he/she supposed to do her job? Even if we could get a group of translators
to rewrite messages into English it would open up a huge flood of languages.
I believe this would be a big pain.

The only way I can see this working is if our moderators are language
geniuses, or purchase a computer program to roughly translate messages into
other languages they could understand. Again, is it worth the hassle?

Valete,

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] re: Curator Sermonem : a political choice
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	01 Dec 2001 21:10:26 -0200

On Sat, 2001-12-01 at 19:08, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:
> Salve Honorable Manius Villius Limitanus!
>
> Jag undrar hur Du har t�nkt l�sa problemet med att folk skriver p� sitt
> eget spr�k?
Ja I glaub jede soll sinne eige Sproch rede un schrieve.
> N�r jag nu skriver p� svenska, vad tror Du att folk i allm�nhet
> f�r ut av det?

I versteh net Schedish aver a bissle versteh I schon oi von so witt.

> �ven om Du �r ett spr�kgeni s� �r alla inte det. Jag tar
> inte upp detta f�r att provocera, utan d�rf�r att jag inte f�rst�r hur Du
> t�nker.
>

I ha nichs geie Englisch rede ver damit Du vo allene vertehbar wirst,
aver van Du schnell rede willsch sollst Du de meiglishkeit ha dine eige
Sproch zu rede.
I bin sicher eber versteh dich gut un wird alles clar un lut ubersetzen.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus.
(Translation bellow of what I wrote, perhaps not appropriate, note mine
is in Alsacian not German)
>
>
>
>
> There is a translation below. Please don't read it! Just answer my message
> above!
>
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Quaestor of Nova Roma
> Propraetor of Thule
>
> CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
>
> Translation to English:
>
> I wonder how You have planned to solve the problem with people writing in
> their own language?

Yes I think everybody should speak and write its own language

> Now when I am writing in Swedish. what do You think
> that people in general will get out of it?

I don t understand swedish but a little I can get even from so far.

> Even if You are a language
> genius not everybody else are. I don' bring this up to provocate, but
> because I don't understand how You think!
>

I have nothing against using english in order to be understood by all,
but I think if you want to speak fast, you should have the possibility
to speak your own language.
I am sure that somebody will understand you and will translate you loud
and clear.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus.

PS: Now the answer to the english version:
Well sort of my last sentence: there will probably always be somebody on
this list able to translate anybodys language, and this can be done
after your fast publication, it does not need to be done beforehand.
If few got what you meant in Swedish I am sure the swedes did and that
the first essential stpe in communication: somebody understood you and
will be able to translate.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] R: [novaroma_europe] Curator Sermonem : a political choice
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Sat, 1 Dec 2001 15:38:27 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, amice Francisce.

--- Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> TRIBUNUS PLEBIS: Gnaeus Salix Astur
> He is a very very intelligent and good cives. He helped the italici
> civis to
> find our way in the costruction of Provincia Italia in the last
> months. He
> show us the experience of Provincia Hispania and I look well his work
> on the
> website and in our mailing list. He is italian but live in Hispania
> ... It's
> too displeasing you aren't in our Provincia, Gnaeo!

I have to thank you for your extremely kind words, Francisce. I will
try to help the provincia Italia more, if I find the right way. But I
have to correct you in a small detail... I am not Italian! :-).

I do speak Italian pretty well, but I am a Spaniard. Sorry about that
:-). However, it is true that I have a personal "special relationship"
with Italia, and I consider it my second homeland. Italia has always
been, and will always be, very close to my heart.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] re: Curator Sermonem : a political choice
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Sun, 2 Dec 2001 00:43:58 +0100

Salve Honorable Manius Villius Limitanus!

Jag betvivlar att ditt system kommer att fungera i praktiken. Vem tror Du
ska ha tid att b�de vara aktiv sj�lv och dessutom �gna sig �t att �vers�tta
andras texter?

>
>I have nothing against using english in order to be understood by all,
>but I think if you want to speak fast, you should have the possibility
>to speak your own language.
>I am sure that somebody will understand you and will translate you loud
>and clear.
>
>Vale
>
>Manius Villius Limitanus.
>
>PS: Now the answer to the english version:
>Well sort of my last sentence: there will probably always be somebody on
>this list able to translate anybodys language, and this can be done
>after your fast publication, it does not need to be done beforehand.
>If few got what you meant in Swedish I am sure the swedes did and that
>the first essential stpe in communication: somebody understood you and
>will be able to translate.

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule

CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
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************************************************
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************************************************
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************************************************
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************************************************
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************************************************
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] re: Curator Sermonem : a political choice
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Sat, 01 Dec 2001 18:41:48 -0500

Salve,

>on 12/1/01 6:10 PM, Michel Loos at loos@-------- wrote:
>
> PS: Now the answer to the english version:
> Well sort of my last sentence: there will probably always be somebody on
> this list able to translate anybodys language, and this can be done
> after your fast publication, it does not need to be done beforehand.
> If few got what you meant in Swedish I am sure the swedes did and that
> the first essential stpe in communication: somebody understood you and
> will be able to translate.

You actually think someone would take the time to translate messages into
other languages? Sure, I can see small one paragraph messages, but how about
the larger ones we see posted her on a daily bases. If I saw a message in
French that was really long, I would not be translating it just because I
can understand it. It would take forever for me to rewrite a long message
into English. Just take a look at the last few posts, they are quite long.
This time could be better spent doing other more productive work for Nova
Roma.

Vale,

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--