Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Consular Edictum: Provision for Runoff Election
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:08:27 EST

Salvete Omnes,

The upcoming end-of-year elections are in much better shape with the Comitia
Centuriata adoption of Item 1 in the recent vote, the Lex Cassia Octavia de
Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum. However, there is still a chance that we
might not have enough voter turn out for all contested magistrate races to be
finished successfully. Therefore:

In the event that candidates are not selected for all available offices,
a second election shall take place using the same list of candidates,
with the names of the winners of the first election omitted. This second
election shall begin at 6:00 PM, Thursday December 20th, and shall
end at 6:00 PM, Friday December 28th, official Nova Roma time.

This will ensure that even if the worst were to happen, the elections can be
completed in December without the need for an Interrex to be appointed.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul

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Subject:	[novaroma] Change of address & e-mail
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <curatrix@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 00:30:15 -0000

After a particularly detestable dies Lunae, I am pleased to make a
long story short and announce that I've taken the plunge and dot-
commed. My Villa can now and forever be found at
www.-------- My new e-mail is curatrix@--------

Julilla Sempronia Magna


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	04 Dec 2001 22:19:57 -0200

On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 21:58, JusticeCMO wrote:
> Salve,
>
> > third tentative of getting this through to the mainlist this time with
> > ccs, beginning to become paranoid....>>
>
> It would not be the first time you jumped to the wrong conclusion.
>
> I remind you of your current status. You yourself have made it public that
> you are on moderated status, so this is not news to you. As such, your
> posts must wait until either myself or my scriba can attend to them. Given
> your ludicrous attempt at maligning the "technical" assistance provided by
> myself as Curatrix, I felt it prudent to comment publicly on what is an
> expected delay on your posts, nothing sinister at all.
>

So even in election time one of the candidate suffers previous
censorship from his opponent, which can cause a full day of lag for
a messsage to appear.

Another good reason for abolishing previous censorship on this list.

Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Test
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:37:42 -0500

>on 12/4/01 4:51 PM, Michel Loos at loos@-------- wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 19:49, Amulius Claudius Petrus wrote:
>> Sorry for wasting space. I am just trying to solve a problem I am
>> experiencing.
>>
>
> So am I , 3 messages that didn t come to the list
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>

Exactly the same problem I am having....

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Test
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:36:29 -0500


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:51:23 -0500

>(I posted this message earlier but it was eaten up by yahoo. If you got this
>message already my apologies.)

Sokarus Apollonius Callias,

This post is completely foolish. It's also damaging to your family and the
very two candidates you support. You also proved to me that you obviously
have no understanding of Nova Roma politics. Further making your post hold
no weight.

Now Callias, you can voice your opinions. Freedom of speech is something I
am all for. But please, when you do use this freedom also use your head, and
look into what you are writing before deciding to write it! Posts like this
do not help your case. They only hurt it.

Sulla and Q. Fabius Maximus are two of the most loyal and dedicated citizens
in this res publica. They have done a lot of good for Nova Roma. Even if you
disagree with some of their policies you have to admit this. What really
bugs me is that you go even further by calling these two great Romans
untrustworthy?! What do you have to back this up? Does the word "slander"
mean anything to you citizen?

After all this, when I think you can write no more garbage you even go
further by also including "a female who runs for praetor". Pompeia Cornelia?
She is the only female running for this position. I also consider her one of
my friends. She has shown me nothing but the virtues we all hold dear to us
here in this nation. She has always been fair and only wants good for Nova
Roma. I am honoured to work with such a person. What you said is a complete
lie, you owe her an apology.

Vale,

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--

> Sokarus Apollonius Callias at hadescallias@-------- wrote:
>
>There are alot of loyal and trustworthy and
> decent people in Nova Roma unlike consul Sulla, Q. Fabius Maximus and
> there is another person, a female who runs for praetor. These are
> more of the backstabbing, lying people who do nothing but supporting
> the oligarchy are really corrupt. This isn't just me who thinks this
> way. There are alot more people and i'm not just talking about the
> gens Apollonii who are against these people coming back to power agin
> for another year. Think wisely and don't participate in favoritism
> and the other stuff that will eventually destory the Republic of Nova
> Roma.
> Valete optimi
> Sokarus Apollonius Callias

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	radams40@--------
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 02:09:02 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Mike Rasschaert" <hadescallias@h...> wrote:
> Salvete omni
> I was actually talking of Priscilla Vedia and not Pompeia. I'll
vote
> expecialy those who run against him as i understand that Germanicus
> got criticized for his posts because alot people can't stand
> criticism. I'm 19years old and currently an artstudent. I have
> devoted myself to the Religio. How on earth can i contribute while
i
> can really do nothing but sitting around? Hey, mayby i am immature,
> mayby i'm not. You people will never know unless those who know me
> and said to say, there aren't many cives in here that do. I just
said
> what i think of these candidates. You can attack me anyway on this
> one but i'm a firm believer of freedom of speech wich include the
> right to say what you want about something or someone.
> Valete optimi
> Sokarus Apollonius Callias

Freedom of speech does not equate to abdicating responsibility for
what you say, and your comments were undeniably rude and insulting.
People taking you to task for this is part of THEIR freedom of
speech - get used to it. No one suggested you COULDN'T say what you
said, but that you SHOULDN'T have - not just a minor semantic
difference. If you had brought out some specific problems you had
with their performance, that would have been mature and reasonable.
When you instead resort to insults and ad hominem attacks, that is
immature and callow behaviour. I hope you have occasion to learn the
difference as time goes on.

Salve,

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus


Subject:	[novaroma] Finding the "Dead" Citizens
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:30:16 -0500

Salvete cives et amici,

A few months ago a discussion took place about holding a type of census to
find and identify inactive citizens. I am curious if any of the candidates
or the senate have any plans at looking at this issue again in the new year.
Or could this be tied into the tax?

I see our population displayed at NovaRoma.org but can't help to ponder how
many of these "citizens" actually still remember joining our organisation.
What is our real population? It would be nice if we could weed out these
�dead� citizens to get a clearer picture.

Also with the comming elections I was wondering if it would be a good idea
or possible to send a reminder to all citizens about the event. Not just the
ones who subscribe to the mainlist, or the announcement list, but to all
citizens who have an email address. Hey, if we get enough citizens turning
out to vote we could avoid that second election consul Marcus Cassius was
talking about. =)

Vale,

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:12:28 -0500

Salve,

>>So even in election time one of the candidate suffers previous censorship
from his opponent, which can cause a full day of lag for a messsage to
appear.>>

Allow me to remind me that your placement on moderated status is due to your
refusal to abide by List Polices. That is your choice, and to cry
"censorship" because I will not allow you <or anyone else> to misuse this
List as suits your purpose is ridiculous.

The fact that I am currently running for the position of Curatrix is
irrelevant to your circumstances. All it does in this case, is highlight to
the voters that I, unlike your stated refusal to administrate even if
elected to do so, take my duties seriously and apply them equally across the
board. The fact that election season is upon us does not change the rules.
You simply still refuse to abide by them.

>>Another good reason for abolishing previous censorship on this list.>>

It is called moderating the List and is the very job you seek. The very
fact that you cannot distinguish that simple fact speaks volumes.

On another note, I still await your reply on what action you would take
against a post such as Sokarus made. I note that you chose to attempt
another attack on me rather than answer the question.

Then again, perhaps that is all the answer the voters needed.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena

Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	[novaroma] Public petition
From:	"Martins-Esteves" <esteves@-------->
Date:	Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:34:54 -0200

Salve Priscilla Vedia Serena

I am not more than a silent reader of this list. As a voting citizen, I am
very interested about the ideas expressed specially by Manius Villius
Limitanus (whom I don't know personally nor by private email, btw) about
language policy in the list.
Considering the fact he is a candidate for the same post you are running
for, could I humbly ask you to remove him from the moderated status. His
free opinions are very important to us, voting citizens, to make up our
minds. His very position of candidate imposes on him a cave linguam (verbal
policy) and besides it is not fair that his opponent, you Priscilla Vedia,
acts at the same time as his censor, best said, curator sermonis.

Respectfully

Valete

Titus Horatius Atticus

>Salve,
>
>> third tentative of getting this through to the mainlist this time with
>> ccs, beginning to become paranoid....>>
>
>It would not be the first time you jumped to the wrong conclusion.
>
>I remind you of your current status. You yourself have made it public that
>you are on moderated status, so this is not news to you. As such, your
>posts must wait until either myself or my scriba can attend to them. Given
>your ludicrous attempt at maligning the "technical" assistance provided by
>myself as Curatrix, I felt it prudent to comment publicly on what is an
>expected delay on your posts, nothing sinister at all.
>
>Vale,
>Priscilla Vedia Serena
>Curatrix Sermonis


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Test
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:17:11 -0500

Salve,

> Exactly the same problem I am having....Amulius Claudius Petrus>>

With respect, your problem is indeed different than that of Limitanus. The
delay in his posts appearing is due to a choice he has made.

Your issue, on the other hand, is a bit of a mystery. You are not
moderated, therefore I can only surmise that whatever technical problems
Yahoo experienced earlier today may be effecting you still. Yours is, as
far as I am aware, a unique situation, but one I am looking into on Yahoo's
end. Please keep me posted if you continue to have difficulty.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis


Subject:	Nova Roma archives Re: [novaroma] Public petition
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:26:42 -0800

Ave Titus Horatius Atticus and et al,

I just wanted to remind you that you can also view the Nova Roma Main
List archives for past posts by Manius Villius, responses to him, and
posts where he is referred too. Just go to www.yahoogroups.com, search
for the Nova Roma list and type in the name of the citizen and you can
search for their posts.

Very Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Martins-Esteves wrote:
>
> Salve Priscilla Vedia Serena
>
> I am not more than a silent reader of this list. As a voting citizen,
> I am
> very interested about the ideas expressed specially by Manius Villius
> Limitanus (whom I don't know personally nor by private email, btw)
> about
> language policy in the list.
> Considering the fact he is a candidate for the same post you are
> running
> for, could I humbly ask you to remove him from the moderated status.
> His
> free opinions are very important to us, voting citizens, to make up
> our
> minds. His very position of candidate imposes on him a cave linguam
> (verbal
> policy) and besides it is not fair that his opponent, you Priscilla
> Vedia,
> acts at the same time as his censor, best said, curator sermonis.
>
> Respectfully
>
> Valete
>
> Titus Horatius Atticus
>
> >Salve,
> >
> >> third tentative of getting this through to the mainlist this time
> with
> >> ccs, beginning to become paranoid....>>
> >
> >It would not be the first time you jumped to the wrong conclusion.
> >
> >I remind you of your current status. You yourself have made it
> public that
> >you are on moderated status, so this is not news to you. As such,
> your
> >posts must wait until either myself or my scriba can attend to them.
> Given
> >your ludicrous attempt at maligning the "technical" assistance
> provided by
> >myself as Curatrix, I felt it prudent to comment publicly on what is
> an
> >expected delay on your posts, nothing sinister at all.
> >
> >Vale,
> >Priscilla Vedia Serena
> >Curatrix Sermonis
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Public petition
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:34:10 -0500

Salve,

> I am not more than a silent reader of this list.>>

Nothing wrong with being an observer my friend. :)

>>As a voting citizen, I am very interested about the ideas expressed
specially by Manius Villius Limitanus (whom I don't know personally nor by
private email, btw) about language policy in the list.>>

I am quite interested in his views as well, as opposed as we seem to be at
the core of our approaches to this job.

>>Considering the fact he is a candidate for the same post you are running
for, could I humbly ask you to remove him from the moderated status.>>

With respect, I must decline your request. The fact that we are running for
the same position is irrelevant to my duties. I have a sworn duty to abide
by and the election does not remove that responsibility from my shoulders.
It is, indeed, my opponent's refusal to abide by the Policies of this List
which has caused his status. It was in no way imposed specially for him.
He is being dealt with the same as any other cive would be had they made his
choice.

>>His free opinions are very important to us, voting citizens, to make up
our minds.>>

Allow me to be very clear here. Moderated status does not interfere with a
cive's ability to speak freely. Unless his post is something actionable
under the Constitution, it goes through exactly as written. Therefore, his
free opinions are here for all to see, simply delayed for a time until
myself or my scriba can approve it.

>>His very position of candidate imposes on him a cave linguam (verbal
policy) and besides it is not fair that his opponent, you Priscilla Vedia,
acts at the same time as his censor, best said, curator sermonis.>>

With respect, I am in office until, at the least, the end of this year. I
will not shirk my duty at this late stage, as I take my job quite seriously.
As for the implication that I, due to my status as opponent of his in this
particular race, would "censor" what he says in a political sense, that is
simply untrue. While some may disagree with my Policies, anyone even
remotely familiar with me knows all too well I moderate not on personalities
but according to the Constitution and List Policies. Therefore I can assure
you that Limitanus is in no danger of having his views squelched due to his
political status, but will remain moderated as a result of his refusal to
abide by List Policies.

I thank you for your question, and hope I have satisfactorily explained the
situation.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis

>
> Respectfully
>
> Valete
>
> Titus Horatius Atticus
>
>
>
> >Salve,
> >
> >> third tentative of getting this through to the mainlist this time with
> >> ccs, beginning to become paranoid....>>
> >
> >It would not be the first time you jumped to the wrong conclusion.
> >
> >I remind you of your current status. You yourself have made it
> public that
> >you are on moderated status, so this is not news to you. As such, your
> >posts must wait until either myself or my scriba can attend to
> them. Given
> >your ludicrous attempt at maligning the "technical" assistance
> provided by
> >myself as Curatrix, I felt it prudent to comment publicly on what is an
> >expected delay on your posts, nothing sinister at all.
> >
> >Vale,
> >Priscilla Vedia Serena
> >Curatrix Sermonis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Explanation for absence of Governor of Australia and Pontifex Marcus Arcadius Pius.
From:	"Daniel Place" <danat2000@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:11:50 +1030

Salvete Omnes;

As most of you who know me here in Nova Roma I have been inactive for almost 3 months which for a cive serving as a Pontiff and Governor is not an ideal situation. Again as most of you who know me personally would be aware I have been studying for an Archaeology degree for 4 years and in September I was offered a full-time graduate position with an Australian Government Department as an Archaeologist which I took with no hesitation as full-time archaeology positions in this nation are a incredibly rare commodity.

This position entails me travelling almost constantly to some of the most remote areas you could imagine, and internet connection is out of the question in some of these areas, where running water isn't even taken for granted. I haven't been completely neglecting my duties as a Priest, I have constantly made offerings for the People and Nation of Nova Roma and continued my research on Roman Religion, nor my Governorship where I have just finalised a purchase of a PO Box for Nova Roma affairs in Australia and arranged for some small scale advertsising in some Pagan journals. However I have been unable to partake in vital elections and provincial work due to my lack of readily available email access. BTW I have the day off today and am at home for once so I can use my email!!

I will fulfill my time as Proprateor of Australia however I feel I have no choice but not to seek proroguement of this position and leave it to someone with more time to devote to Nova Roma, as Nova Roma truly deserves. I will continue my role as a Priest of Nova Roma and will check in as often as is humanly possible to participate in votes and decisions of the College and am still honoured to call myself a Nova Roman.

Thank you all for your consideration.

Marcus Arcadius Pius
Proprateor Australia
Pontifex
Flamen Portunalis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 02:56:52 -0000

Salvete,

Any time lag in messages today were caused by a glitch in the Yahoo
system. I manage some lists myself, and the Yahoo moderator
privilidges were not available for most of the day. It is therefore
quite certain that Limitanus' post has not been deliberately delayed.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

--- In novaroma@--------, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
> On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 21:58, JusticeCMO wrote:
> So even in election time one of the candidate suffers previous
> censorship from his opponent, which can cause a full day of lag for
> a messsage to appear.
>
> Another good reason for abolishing previous censorship on this list.
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	[novaroma] A View of Saturnalia
From:	Steven Robinson <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:21:37 -0600

Salus Omnes,

From:
http://www.circlesanctuary.org/pholidays/

Saturnalia

Winter Solstice in Pagan Rome

by Selena Fox

This was first published for a workshop at 1993 Circle Sanctuary Community Yule Festival.

Timing of Saturnalia
varied during the course of Roman history.
began as feast days for Saturn (December 17) and Ops (December 19).
with Julian calendar, Saturnalia on December 17 & 18; Opalia on December 19 & 20.
during the empire, extended to a week (December 17-23); longer with other holidays.

Associated holiday festivals
Consualia, end of sowing season festival (December 15).
Dies Juvenalis, Coming of Age for Young Men (mid-December).
Feast of Sol Invicta, the Unconquered Sun, set in 274 A. D. (December 25).
Brumalia, Winter Solstice on pre-Julian calendar (December 25).
Christmas (December 25), Christians move Christ's birthday to this date in 336 A.D.
Janus Day and Beginning of Calendar Year (January 1), set in 153 B.C.; again in 45 B.C.
Compitalia, blessing of the fields rural festival (January 3-5).

Deities honored around Winter Solstice time
Saturn - God of Agriculture; merged with the Greek Cronos.
Ops - Goddes of Plenty; Mother Earth; partner to Saturn and Consus.
Sol Invicta - Sun God; connected with the Persian Mithra, honored by Roman soldiers.
Consus - God of Storebin of Harvested Grain.
Juventas - Goddess of Young Manhood; related to Greek Hebe of Youthful Beauty.
Janus - God of Beginnings and Gates; Solar God of Daybreak; Creator God.

Celebrations included
merry-making
rest and relaxation
connections with family and friends
celebrating beginning of Solar year
prayers for protection of Winter crops
honoring Deities

Legacies of Saturnalia in contemporary holiday celebrations
Religious Rituals -- joining in spiritual community to honor the Divine.
Honored Figures -- Santa and Father Time -- Saturn; Holy Mother -- Ops.
Sacred Flames -- candles lit and new fires kindled to represent new Solar year.
Greens -- Holly given with gifts, homes decorated with wreaths and garlands.
Time Off from Work -- government, schools, businesses closed; multiple days off.
Peace -- dispensing of punishments suspended and courts closed; wars ceased.
Relaxing with Family and Friends -- renewing bonds, sharing celebration.
Gift Giving -- dolls to children, candles to friends; fruit symbols representing increase.
Feasting -- sharing food with family and friends; on-going eating and drinking.
Helping Less Fortunate -- class distinctions suspended; food for all; masters waiting on
servants.
Exhuberant Play -- masquerades, gaming, gambling, mock king, jokes, partying, letting loose.
Paper Hats -- soft hats (pilei) worn at Saturnalia banquets to signify informality.
Dancing in the New Solar Year -- music and dancing.

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html

002 Mind's reach should have, no bounds in search
For meaning and wit, riddles to solve
To seek and think, are greatest skills
In mankind's grasp, oftimes unused
- Piparskeggrsmal, Book 2


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Ave Patricia Cassia!
From:	"pjane" <pcassia@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 03:35:04 -0000

Thank you, Pompeia Cornelia! The Religio Romana has always been my
first interest in Nova Roma, and I now feel the organization has
reached the point where there are many others more qualified than I to
take up the burden of the Treasury.

It is my sincere hope to serve the goddess of wisdom and skill in ways
that do her honor.

Patricia Cassia


Subject:	[novaroma] LICTORS NEEDED - (Comitia Curiata)
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:43:45 EST

Salvete Omnes,

There are currently openings available for the position of Lictor in Nova
Roma. Lictors (who make up the Comitia Curiata) are responsible for vesting
magistrates with Imperium when they are elected. They also witness the
appointment of priests, adoptions, and the recording of wills.

The work of a Lictor is not demanding, as it is an occasional duty. However
it is a duty that has importance to the functioning of the Roman state. In
antiquity Lictors were the living symbol of Imperium (the collective power of
the Senate and People of Rome), and in Nova Roma they continue this function
through bearing official witness to many of our important actions.

The present requirements for being a Lictor are simple:

I. You must be a Citizen of Nova Roma. (No length of Citizenship requirement)

II. You must be subscribed to both the main list and the Nova Roma Announce
list, and have the time and ability to post announcements to both.

III. You must be willing to be subscribed to the Comitia Curiata list to
receive instructions for your duties.

One small caveat - the position of Lictor may possibly become a bit more
active in the future. To date the Lictors have not been called on to witness
adoptions or wills, but this will hopefully change in the not too distant
future. It is even possible that as 'live' events become more common the
Lictors will occasionally be asked to take up the ancient duty of bearing
fasces at certain official events!

If you would like to apply to be a Lictor, please email me directly at:
cassius@--------, or send email to the Collegium Pontificum at:
pontifices@--------

My thanks to any and all who step forward to fill this ancient duty!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:03:37 -0800 (PST)

>
>Ave Sokarus Apollonius Callias,
>
> > > Sokarus Apollonius Callias at
> hadescallias@-------- wrote:
> >
> >There are alot of loyal and trustworthy and
> > decent people in Nova Roma unlike consul Sulla, Q.
> Fabius Maximus and
> > there is another person, a female who runs for
> praetor. These are
> > more of the backstabbing, lying people who do
> nothing but supporting
> > the oligarchy are really corrupt.

M.O.: These statements have absolutely no foundation
of truth. I know all of these people to be honest and
trustworthy and it is scandalous that you make such
unfounded accusations without a single shred of
supporting fact.
Because you may not agree with these honorable
citizens does not mean that they are not honest.

This isn't just
> me who thinks this
> > way. There are alot more people
M.O.: Oh really, Who. Instead of generalizing, perhaps
you may have the courage to name names. If there are
"alot", who and where are they? Why do they not speak
up?

and i'm not just
> talking about the
> > gens Apollonii who are against these people coming
> back to power agin
> > for another year. Think wisely and don't
> participate in favoritism
> > and the other stuff

M.O.: Please be specific as to what "other stuff".

that will eventually destory
> the Republic of Nova
> > Roma.
M.O. Exactly what specifically are you refering to?

M.O.:> I do not wish to respond to any more of your
postings so please do not expect me to carry on this
charade. I completely support the people you
mentioned and feel sorry for you that you have fallen
victim to idle gossip.

I would venture a guess that you have not once
interacted with these good citizens that you malign
nor have they ever done anything to you to warrant
this abuse.

Vale,
Maximina Octavia

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] My Thoughts on Nationalism
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 06:27:43 +0000

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo Civites Nova Roma:

The topic of nationalism has been brought up by a few civites and a couple
of magistrates, and indeed, with the social problems which have been slowly
festering in our res publica, I feel a need to address my vision of the
issue.

As a Canadian, and therefore a nation of a very young country (114.5 years
old), I perhaps cannot fully grasp the depth and inbreeding of being raised
in a culture which is centuries old. Although I can certainly understand
the dynamics of living in a country which is largely multicultural, yet
feeling a budding sense of "Canada" within each of us.

We all, regardless of secondary heritage, have common bonds as citizens of
Nova Roma, bonds which we hope, with an effort on each of our parts, will
solidify our feeling of "oneness" or "nationalism". However, a large part
of our day, to date, is spent in the macronational world, being Germans,
Americans, Canadians, Italians, Hungarians, Israeli, and the like. It is
very difficult, if not impossible, to completely divorce ourselves from
these cultural influences, inspite of our love for Rome-- even when we log
onto a Sodalitas List or in the Nova Roma Forum, mainlist or message board.
I am afraid these circumstances are unlikely to change for a while, unless
we of course inherit, or win a heck of a pile of money, buy our own country,
and go from there.

Therefore, I don't feel that we should worry about in consequential comments
made here and there, which express comradry with our macronational
countrymen. It is natural to feel close to those who live in your respective
macronational country, despite your love of Rome. This doesn't
automatically convey prejudice or bias. To assume this, is an easy mistake
to make.

Perhaps being Canadian, I am more used to this reference to a love of
countrymen, being a country of many subcultures.

In Canada, we are very proud of Anne Murray, Joni Mitchell, the Bare Naked
Ladies and Brian Adams. We are also proud of Fredrick Banting who
discovered the dynamics of Insulin. And Primeminister Pearson who devised
the United Nations peacekeeping institution we have today. To be proud that
they have accomplished so much and that they are Canadian to boot, does not
mean we Canuks think the artists, scientists and diplomats of other
countries are incompetant ne're-do-wells, does it? It is our way of
generating a feeling of comradry, or common celebration, or nationalism.

Germany can list a long line of famous, contributing people, as can France,
the U.S., and boy, can Italy ever!!!

What is your point, Pompeia ?

(oh, yes......my point!!)

We are a world of people here, joined together in a love of Rome...a love of
her spiritualities and dedication to the Gods/Godesses, some of us with
worship, and some of us with awed appreciation of their seemingly timeless
influence, a love of her literature, her art, tactics of the military used
even today (see ya should have been at Fort Malden!). And we are here, in
this res publica, to celebrate our recognition of how much Rome's legacy has
achieved throughout the ages.

We house a comprehensive venue, from which we can celebrate Romanitas. Even
a state religio, which honours the belief system of the ancients, is
available as a home to those who have have few recourses by which they may
worship the Roman Deities as they please. For who can honour Rome without
honouring her devoutness to her Gods/Goddesses, even if we may travel by a
different spiritual path?

Even Rome scratched her head at the notion of monotheism, but as long as
these believers maintained the law and civility, they were tolerated in the
res publica antiquita. I would venture to say, that in many ways Romans
respected the Jews for their unrelenting devotion and piety to their God,
Yahweh.

Quirites.........

Do you want more Nova Roman nationalism? Look around your native country,
and give thanks for what you have today, and be mindful that the influence
of Rome prevails in your culture.

When you do your job, "unRoman as it may be", think of the virtues when you
interact with others. Do you job to the best of your ability; the Romans
did. Employ the same virtues in discussing politics or anything else with
your fellow citizens in the Roman forum.

There is a bit of Romanitas in each human being, I am convinced; we as Nova
Romani just see this more clearly and recognize it as a cause to rejoice,
regardless of where we live on the planet.

Winston Churchill, in one of his famous orations, hailed Rome as a prominent
factor in the civilization and advancement of the British Empire. Think of
that, ye Brits, as you look at the Big Ben, or stroll along the ruins of
Hadrian's wall :).

One does not walk down the Capital regions of Washington D.C. and its
monuments replicated after Greco/Roman architecture and not feel a sense of
Rome. I would ask the American citizens to reflect on that.

And Italy, you are without excuse to be reminded of how the ancients
permeated your culture, and vice versa! (grin)

This is Rome! And this was Roman Antiquita! A res publica with provinces
of peoples of different cultures - cultures which were often rooted before
Rome was even a factor. Many of these cultures exist today, although they
were brushed with the brilliant paint of Rome, and hence became Romanized.
Many noted Romans hung on to their primary sense of creed; Gaius Marius
loved Rome and was Consul x 8. Yet he was Italian by birth, and was subject
to Italian influence, no doubt.

. Not much has changed really, and we are doing a 'repeat performance' of
sorts, reminding ourselves and our 21 Century peers of the greatness and
glory of Rome, and how her legacy should never be forgotten, and how her
virtues can heal a hurting world.

"Nationalism" takes time, and it takes commitment from all of us. I have
said it before and I shall say it again, "Let us each take responsibility
for the building of our res publica". Oh,nothing nobody has not said
before, like JFK, but a subtle reminder that we are 'all' a factor in Nova
Roma.

This has always been my vision as a citizen, and as a propraetrix: to foster
unity, and to attempt to iron out kinks which interfere with our ability to
celebrate eachother as Nova Romani, to care and nurture eachother, yet be
proud of our macronational legacies, and be thankful in our day- to- day
lives that indeed Rome has influenced our existance, and Rome's culture, and
Gods/Spiritualities, and her military, and her arts, and her literature, AND
her 21st Century champions.......... to wit:

Senate et Populesque Nova Roma, of course!! :)

If we hold on to these ideals, Quirites, and remain steadfast in our
commitments and our appreciation of Rome and one another, what problems
remain, which surely cannot be solved, among Romans?

Some thoughts.........

Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:48:10 +0100

Ave Marce Octavie!

I thank you for looking these references up for me. I have never seen these messages before. I have to admit that the rudeness in these mails is not appropriate at all. In my posting from yesterday I tried to explain that Sokarus has indeed a great value from the religious point of view. He already helped me out with some rituals too. I am however very disappointed in the tone he uses when posting on the main list. Not only do his arguments have little foundition, he also attacks people who have done a great effort for Nova Roma in the past.

I must admit that I was shocked to see that all this comes from Sokarus. When chatting with him, he gives a totally different impression. When we talk about religion or Germania Inferior, he gives a suitable opinion.

Again, as I did in the earlier posting, I take distance from the political statements Sokarus does there and certainly from the tone he uses. Everybody on the main list knows that I am trying to work to further Nova Roma myself and that I am not such a rebel. I maintain however the friendship with Sokarus, based on the mutual help we offer each other at worshipping our most honorable gods with historically accurate rituals.

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Puteus Germanicus
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/

----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!

Salve Cai Pute,

> I will stand up for my Tiberius Apollonius Callias Sokarus. ... I don't
> consider him to be immature, on the contrary.

Please see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma/message/25478 .

Vale, O.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	[novaroma] Position of Lictor
From:	Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:05:45 -0800 (PST)

i tried to apply for for the position of lictor but the requisite email I needed to respond to does not seem to let yahoo connect to it.

Gauis Geminius Germanus

---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	"morosbe2001" <hadescallias@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 10:09:36 -0000

Salvete omni
Im' replying because i found it all amusing how this is going. You
all try to discredit me for the things i said because i say what i
think and because i'm who i am and i'm not going to chance for noone.
What i find disgusting is that they indirectly attack those of my
gens. This i can not allow. I speak only for myself and not for
anyone of my gens so don't attack my gens for the things i've said.
Direct them to my and only to me. If you have a fight with someone,
you take it with him and not with someone else. I believe that the
cives in here should be allowed to chose their own name and not one
name somebody else has laid upon and a correct Roman name. If one cive
(and i'm not just talking about my encounter here) thinks the name he
chose is Roman, let him keep it. I know someone from Greece that said
that the church doesn't tolerate non- christian names. Appearently
that is the case here with Roman names. Where is this going to end?
On an other matter: i have nothing against women who run for office
but remember those who support Priscilla Vedia,Q. Fabius and Sulla,
there are two sides of the human personality, a good one and a bad
side. mayby you don't see it or you don't want to see it, but it is
there. I think that some people showed that i have a good side but i
have also a bad side wich you are seeing, but i doubt if that is
really that bad. I think when it comes down to politics, people must
represend the whole republic, not such a bunch of people who got
power. I don't want to see this republic entering the Absolutistic
France of 300 years ago. You can say that i stand by Formusanus' side
when it comes down to politics because i know he is a good man but
for some unknown reason, wich we can speculate about, he was turned
down for a political function. I don't really care about politics but
i don't want to see that Nova Roma will eventually be an sinking
ship. Here is something to talk about for you guys and don't forget
that i speak for myself and i seemed to be the only who has the
nerves to speak what is on his min(mayby besides Formusanus.)
Valete optimi.
Sokarus Apollonius Callias


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Position of Lictor
From:	"cassius622" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:37:34 -0000

Salve,

Not to worry, your application message came through fine. :)

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

--- In novaroma@--------, Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@--------> wrote:
>
> i tried to apply for for the position of lictor but the requisite
email I needed to respond to does not seem to let yahoo connect to
it.
>
> Gauis Geminius Germanus


Subject:	Nova Roma archives Re: [novaroma] Public petition
From:	"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:22:44 -0000

Salvete Quirites,

Instead of only making positive statements about the candidacy of
Priscillia Vedia for Curator Sermonis, I now feel I must make some
negative comments about Manius Villius.

Please, if you do not know Manius Villius, take Censor Sulla's advice
and read the archives. While Priscillia Vedia has done an
outstanding job on this list, Manius Villius has continually caused
conflict and disruption. He is already giving examples of how he
would censor this list. Many may agree that our senior Consul's
comments about Censor Sulla and Decius Iunius were unfortunate, but
at least we were allowed to hear them. Manius Villius would have
censored them.

Manius Villius as Curator Sermonis would be an absolute disaster.
The smooth functioning of this list, established and maintained by
Priscillia Vedia and her capable assistant Pompeia Cornelia would be
a thing of the past. This list is our Republic's main avenue of
communication. Don't let it fade into decline. VOTE Priscillia
Vedia for Curator Sermonis!

Thank you.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Praefectus Regio Magna Flumen America Austrorientalis
Candidate for Quaestor

--- In novaroma@--------, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Ave Titus Horatius Atticus and et al,
>
> I just wanted to remind you that you can also view the Nova Roma
Main
> List archives for past posts by Manius Villius, responses to him,
and
> posts where he is referred too. Just go to www.yahoogroups.com,
search
> for the Nova Roma list and type in the name of the citizen and you
can
> search for their posts.
>
> Very Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>
> Martins-Esteves wrote:
> >
> > Salve Priscilla Vedia Serena
> >
> > I am not more than a silent reader of this list. As a voting
citizen,
> > I am
> > very interested about the ideas expressed specially by Manius
Villius
> > Limitanus (whom I don't know personally nor by private email, btw)
> > about
> > language policy in the list.
> > Considering the fact he is a candidate for the same post you are
> > running
> > for, could I humbly ask you to remove him from the moderated
status.
> > His
> > free opinions are very important to us, voting citizens, to make
up
> > our
> > minds. His very position of candidate imposes on him a cave
linguam
> > (verbal
> > policy) and besides it is not fair that his opponent, you
Priscilla
> > Vedia,
> > acts at the same time as his censor, best said, curator sermonis.
> >
> > Respectfully
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > Titus Horatius Atticus
> >
> > >Salve,
> > >
> > >> third tentative of getting this through to the mainlist this
time
> > with
> > >> ccs, beginning to become paranoid....>>
> > >
> > >It would not be the first time you jumped to the wrong
conclusion.
> > >
> > >I remind you of your current status. You yourself have made it
> > public that
> > >you are on moderated status, so this is not news to you. As
such,
> > your
> > >posts must wait until either myself or my scriba can attend to
them.
> > Given
> > >your ludicrous attempt at maligning the "technical" assistance
> > provided by
> > >myself as Curatrix, I felt it prudent to comment publicly on
what is
> > an
> > >expected delay on your posts, nothing sinister at all.
> > >
> > >Vale,
> > >Priscilla Vedia Serena
> > >Curatrix Sermonis
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:35:04 -0000

Salve Sokare Apolloni,

--- In novaroma@--------, "morosbe2001" <hadescallias@h...> wrote:

>>Im' replying because i found it all amusing how this is going.<<

Interesting that you find disgracing yourself "amusing".

>>What i find disgusting is that they indirectly attack those of my
gens.<<

I can't recall any posts regarding your comments that were directed
to the Apolloni in general. However, regardles of your desires, your
behavior does inded reflect on your gens. Although I don't often
agree with the political positions of your Pater, I do respect him.
Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for you. Perhaps you should
seek the advice of Marcus Apollonius, who is a gentleman, before
posting in the future.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Praefectus Regio Magna Flumen America Austrorientalis
Candidate for Quaestor


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	"morosbe2001" <hadescallias@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:05:37 -0000

Salvete omni
I do respect the man for all the work he did but i'm gonna to clarify
why i do not like Q. Fabius Maximus and Sulla because they don't give
people the right to chose their own Roman name. Nobody can do this
for oneother. People should have this right. If they don't have this
right, how can we call ourselfes free. Concerning Priscilla Vedia and
Vedius, its a different matter. They want to censor the list wich i'm
personally against it all the while they can do whatever they want
but nobody else can. To me that is unmature. Sulla calling himself a
friend of the gay people but through his somewhat homophobic nature,
he made it happen over a certain amount of time that, that person
left. He's contradicting himself when he says he is a friend of the
gay people, he's actually offending them and I will just say this. I
do not know the whole history between the two of them but if Sulla
provides me with the information and proof that his sexual
orientation was not the reason why he left Nova Roma, i will never
bring this up again. And if the two gentlemen somehow made it happen
that people have the right to chose their own name. I will never say
anything about it. Offcourse this will not include those who in the
past, who had the alter their names because of this but only for
those people who join Nova Roma in the future, are the ones who will
have the privilige. Its for this reason that i politically don't like
those guys. If you guys take this preposition under consideration,
i'll back away and wait until i hear some news about it.
Valete optimi
Tiberius 'Sokarus' Apollonius Callias


Subject:	[novaroma] Renewed public petition
From:	"Martins-Esteves" <esteves@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:48:54 -0200

Salvete Quirites
Salve Priscilla Vedia

I am sorry to insist on this, but I just want to show my fellow citizens how
bizarre this situation is: Priscilla Vedia, curatrix sermonem and candidate
for this very magistracy for the next term, performs previous control
(censura praevia) on the messages of her opponent Limitanus.

(excerpt; see bellow the whole message)
>Allow me to be very clear here. Moderated status does not interfere with a
>cive's ability to speak freely. Unless his post is something actionable
>under the Constitution, it goes through exactly as written. Therefore, his
>free opinions are here for all to see, simply delayed for a time until
>myself or my scriba can approve it.

It does not matter what kind of control as far as some sort of control is
made. And worse: beforehand. I understand your duties, Priscilla Vedia, but
our laws don't allow you to act in such a manner.
The Lex Vedia Vigintisexviri says in verbis
<II. Curator Sermo. The curator sermo (overseer of the conversation) shall
be responsible for the maintenance and moderation of the official email
discussion list(s) sponsored by the State.>

It doesn't say you have to read the messages of your political opponent
before it appears on the list. That particular task is not your legal duty.
Acting like this you are misusing you position and your Imperium.

I know you may have the best intentions and don't want to censor Limitanus,
your opponent, but if you want to continue being the curatrix sermonem at
the same time you are running for one more term, you should at least,
refrain from doing this abusive previous control.

I respectfully ask you to reconsider your denial of my request. I must
remember you that your legal duties cannot be an obstacle to my
constitutional rights.
1. I have the right to vote and, therefore, to have free and uncensored
access to the opinions of all candidates. (ART. III, B, 3)
2. I have the right to participate (in an active or a passive way) in this
discussion list, and the State cannot restrict the messages unless they are
a CLEAR danger for the Republic. The only moderation accepted is that
exerced to mantain order and civilty. (ART. III, B, 4) Well, the messages of
the candidates are not suposed to be a danger for the Republic, and if it is
so, it is good that to be patent. As for the civilty policy, we all know
that was not the case of Limitanus, but of some other cives.

Valete

Titus Horatius Atticus

---Mensagem original-----
De: JusticeCMO <justicecmo@-------->
Para: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
Data: Quarta-feira, 5 de Dezembro de 2001 00:35
Assunto: RE: [novaroma] Public petition

>Salve,
>
>> I am not more than a silent reader of this list.>>
>
>Nothing wrong with being an observer my friend. :)
>
>>>As a voting citizen, I am very interested about the ideas expressed
>specially by Manius Villius Limitanus (whom I don't know personally nor by
>private email, btw) about language policy in the list.>>
>
>I am quite interested in his views as well, as opposed as we seem to be at
>the core of our approaches to this job.
>
>>>Considering the fact he is a candidate for the same post you are running
>for, could I humbly ask you to remove him from the moderated status.>>
>
>With respect, I must decline your request. The fact that we are running
for
>the same position is irrelevant to my duties. I have a sworn duty to abide
>by and the election does not remove that responsibility from my shoulders.
>It is, indeed, my opponent's refusal to abide by the Policies of this List
>which has caused his status. It was in no way imposed specially for him.
>He is being dealt with the same as any other cive would be had they made
his
>choice.
>
>>>His free opinions are very important to us, voting citizens, to make up
>our minds.>>
>
>Allow me to be very clear here. Moderated status does not interfere with a
>cive's ability to speak freely. Unless his post is something actionable
>under the Constitution, it goes through exactly as written. Therefore, his
>free opinions are here for all to see, simply delayed for a time until
>myself or my scriba can approve it.
>
>>>His very position of candidate imposes on him a cave linguam (verbal
>policy) and besides it is not fair that his opponent, you Priscilla Vedia,
>acts at the same time as his censor, best said, curator sermonis.>>
>
>With respect, I am in office until, at the least, the end of this year. I
>will not shirk my duty at this late stage, as I take my job quite
seriously.
>As for the implication that I, due to my status as opponent of his in this
>particular race, would "censor" what he says in a political sense, that is
>simply untrue. While some may disagree with my Policies, anyone even
>remotely familiar with me knows all too well I moderate not on
personalities
>but according to the Constitution and List Policies. Therefore I can
assure
>you that Limitanus is in no danger of having his views squelched due to his
>political status, but will remain moderated as a result of his refusal to
>abide by List Policies.
>
>I thank you for your question, and hope I have satisfactorily explained the
>situation.
>
>Vale,
>Priscilla Vedia Serena
>Curatrix Sermonis
>
>
>>
>> Respectfully
>>
>> Valete
>>
>> Titus Horatius Atticus
>>
>>
>>
>> >Salve,
>> >
>> >> third tentative of getting this through to the mainlist this time with
>> >> ccs, beginning to become paranoid....>>
>> >
>> >It would not be the first time you jumped to the wrong conclusion.
>> >
>> >I remind you of your current status. You yourself have made it
>> public that
>> >you are on moderated status, so this is not news to you. As such, your
>> >posts must wait until either myself or my scriba can attend to
>> them. Given
>> >your ludicrous attempt at maligning the "technical" assistance
>> provided by
>> >myself as Curatrix, I felt it prudent to comment publicly on what is an
>> >expected delay on your posts, nothing sinister at all.
>> >
>> >Vale,
>> >Priscilla Vedia Serena
>> >Curatrix Sermonis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:19:53 -0600 (CST)

> I do respect the man for all the work he did but i'm gonna to clarify
> why i do not like Q. Fabius Maximus and Sulla because they don't give
> people the right to chose their own Roman name. Nobody can do this
> for oneother. People should have this right.

So, if an applicant wanted to call himself "Lucius Maximus O'Shaugnessy
von Hauptkolf of �lm", it should be permitted?

We are building a Roman civilization here, which means that Roman names
should be used. A few bad names, like "Dredd Augustus", slipped
through in the past. That was when the Censors were less vigilant.
Now, we have censors who ensure that names are as correct as possible.
We would otherwise be a laughingstock among the Roman enthusiast community.

> If they don't have this right, how can we call ourselfes free.

Call yourself whatever you like, but blatantly invalid names are
not going to pollute our Album Civium.

> Concerning Priscilla Vedia and Vedius, its a different matter. They
> want to censor the list wich i'm personally against it

Priscilla Vedia interferes with the list as little as possible, only
doing what is necessary to keep the conversation civil.

> all the while they can do whatever they want but nobody else can.

Provide an example. Your claim is false.

> Sulla calling himself a friend of the gay people but through his
> somewhat homophobic nature,

A "nature" that exists entirely in your imagination. He has never
done or said anything "homophobic".

> he made it happen over a certain amount of time that, that person left.

Some gay person left because of Sulla? I don't think so.

> He's contradicting himself when he says he is a friend of the
> gay people, he's actually offending them and I will just say this.

Are you the spokesman for gay people now? Or is this just another
supposed offence just another one of your lies?

> I do not know the whole history between the two of them but if Sulla
> provides me with the information and proof that his sexual
> orientation was not the reason why he left Nova Roma, i will never
> bring this up again.

I see; to you, he is guilty until proven innocent.

Vale, Octavius.
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/consul

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	05 Dec 2001 12:27:17 -0200

On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 00:12, JusticeCMO wrote:
> Salve,
>
> >>So even in election time one of the candidate suffers previous censorship
> from his opponent, which can cause a full day of lag for a messsage to
> appear.>>
>
> Allow me to remind me that your placement on moderated status is due to your
> refusal to abide by List Polices. That is your choice, and to cry
> "censorship" because I will not allow you <or anyone else> to misuse this
> List as suits your purpose is ridiculous.
>
I am subjected to previous censorship because of the following mail:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma/message/22827
I still don t see in what it was outside of the list rules.

> The fact that I am currently running for the position of Curatrix is
> irrelevant to your circumstances. All it does in this case, is highlight to
> the voters that I, unlike your stated refusal to administrate even if
> elected to do so, take my duties seriously and apply them equally across the
> board. The fact that election season is upon us does not change the rules.
> You simply still refuse to abide by them.
>

The Curator Sermonem's job is to _maintain_ a channel of communication
between Romans. Which you don t do, you leave this to yahoo which does
it very poorly as we have seen all along this year and again yesterday.

You interpreted your job as beeing both the legislative power (through
your rule making), the judiciary power (judging who you think does not
respect your rules) and the executive power (previous censorship) on
this list. Usually when those 3 powers are accumulated in one person
this is called a dictature.
No I definitively will not be a dictator, I will proclam rules,
I will defer the infractors to the praetors which are representing our
judical power.

> >>Another good reason for abolishing previous censorship on this list.>>
>
> It is called moderating the List and is the very job you seek. The very
> fact that you cannot distinguish that simple fact speaks volumes.
>

No it is not, the job is maintaining the list which I intend to do by
reviving the group of citizens you dissalowed:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma/message/21897

By this the curtor sermonem could do his real job: maintain the list,
just like the curator araneum maintains the web-site.

> On another note, I still await your reply on what action you would take
> against a post such as Sokarus made. I note that you chose to attempt
> another attack on me rather than answer the question.
>

I finally found the mail in the archives.
1) This mail is probably diffamatory, and as in all possible diffamation
cases, Sokarus would be asked to produce in a short delay of time (some
times/1 week) the proofs of his acertion. Failure of which would lead to
be deffered to the praetors for diffamation.
2) Clearly Sokarus does not dominate the english language and perhaps
the words would be less offending if he was allowed to speak his natural
language.

Now a note on Sulla's statement that the citizens can find my mails on
the list archive.
Unfortunately they can't since I am subject to previous censorship,
several of my mails never hit the list because they are refused by
Priscilla Vedia.

I was effectively censored (the posts never appeared on the main-list
but I got an answer from P. Vedia) on the following reasons:
1) My signature line where I asked for the removal of charge of both
Vedii (several)
2) A post on the extinction of American Cultures after 500 years of
christian occupation
3) A post where I made fun of Consul Vedius because he confused space
and time (using light year as a measure of time)

I am quite sure I am missing another one, but I can t remind.

Several other posts were lost. Just bad or no maintenance of our
vehicle of communication.

Last, think about the following from the point of view of an external
independent commision of election surveillance:
The opposition candidate's speeches need to be read and approved by the
official candidate seeking reelection, before they can effectivelly come
to the knowledge of the electors.

What do you think will be the conclusion of this commision on the
fairness of the free elctions?

Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	"morosbe2001" <hadescallias@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:43:42 -0000

Salvete omni
> So, if an applicant wanted to call himself "Lucius Maximus
O'Shaugnessy
> von Hauptkolf of �lm", it should be permitted?
I didn't say that. If they chose a latin form of a name or create one
that sounds and look like Roman, than its okay. This does not include
modern names, only old names or names that are from that period. Even
though, there are alot of names not known because they haven't been
written down(i think.)
> Are you the spokesman for gay people now? Or is this just another
> supposed offence just another one of your lies?
You are accusing me of being a liar. Everything i told her is from i
heard(Vedia and Vedius) or what i discovered for myself (Q. Fabius
and Sulla, except of that gay situation. That was told to me by
someone i trust and know.)
> I see; to you, he is guilty until proven innocent.
Yes why not. If he gives me this in private, i'll back away and i
will personaly apolegize myself to Sulla and to Q. Fabius Maximus(if
they consider my preposition) in public.I will apolegize to Sulla if
he gives me the proof.
Valete optimi
Sokarus Apollonius Callias


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:50:02 -0600 (CST)

Salve Sokare,

> > So, if an applicant wanted to call himself "Lucius Maximus O'Shaugnessy
> > von Hauptkolf of �lm", it should be permitted?
> I didn't say that. If they chose a latin form of a name or create one
> that sounds and look like Roman, than its okay.

We are in agreement, then, that some names cannot be permitted. The
only difference is where the "dividing line" between good and bad
names is made, and just how significant a deviation from the standard
form is permitted.

We elect people to make that decision - the Censores.

> > Are you the spokesman for gay people now? Or is this just another
> > supposed offence just another one of your lies?

> You are accusing me of being a liar.

Yes, I am. You have accused Sulla of being "homophobic" without a
shred of proof. Until you either prove it or retract it, I call you
a liar.

Vale, Octavius.

---
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	"flaviusdio" <3s@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:10:17 -0000

Salve, Tiberi Apolloni Callias.

--- In novaroma@--------, "morosbe2001" <hadescallias@h...> wrote:
> Salvete omni
> I do respect the man for all the work he did but i'm gonna to
clarify
> why i do not like Q. Fabius Maximus and Sulla because they don't
give
> people the right to chose their own Roman name. Nobody can do this
> for oneother. People should have this right. If they don't have this
> right, how can we call ourselfes free.

You are not correct here. Of course people have the right to choose
their own roman name. Our citizens, or, being more correctly, our
applicants for citizenship have this right. Of course, there are some
restrictions. Senator Marcus Octavius Germanicus pointed out what
could happen, if we give total freedom for choosing a name.

This is, in my humble opinion, generally no question of personal
freedom. Even in macronational law, you are not totally free to choose
a name. This is the case in all civilized states. And I�m sure you
don�t really mean that citizens of this states lack all personal
freedom.

> Concerning Priscilla Vedia
and
> Vedius, its a different matter. They want to censor the list wich
i'm
> personally against it all the while they can do whatever they want
> but nobody else can.

This topic was discussed earlier, and it was made clear that some
problems occured with the yahoo groups service. Personally, I had my
disputes with both Priscilla Vedia Serena and Flavius Vedius
Germanicus. If they really censor the list, why didn�t they block my
posts?

> To me that is unmature. Sulla calling himself a
> friend of the gay people but through his somewhat homophobic nature,
> he made it happen over a certain amount of time that, that person
> left. He's contradicting himself when he says he is a friend of the
> gay people, he's actually offending them and I will just say this. I
> do not know the whole history between the two of them but if Sulla
> provides me with the information and proof that his sexual
> orientation was not the reason why he left Nova Roma, i will never
> bring this up again. And if the two gentlemen somehow made it happen
> that people have the right to chose their own name. I will never say
> anything about it. Offcourse this will not include those who in the
> past, who had the alter their names because of this but only for
> those people who join Nova Roma in the future, are the ones who will
> have the privilige. Its for this reason that i politically don't
like
> those guys. If you guys take this preposition under consideration,
> i'll back away and wait until i hear some news about it.

It is a risk for magistrates in office, that they do something other
citizens cannot agree to. Personal dislike is another risk we have to
live with. For acting magistrates, the limits of their actions are set
by the Constitution and the laws passed by the various assemblies. I
cannot see that Quintus Fabius Maximus, Lucius Cornelius Sulla or
other magistrates stepped over those limits. They are both elected
magistrates with imperium and potestas, and btw. with great
experiences and knowledge, and so they ruled a specific case falling
under their jurisdiction. Not less, not more. If you don�t agree with
this, you are of course free to vote for other candidates, or try for
yourself to climb the steps of the Cursus Honorum until you reach an
office where you can decide about the problems you want to solve. But
until change, their edicta are given law, binding all citizens.

Vale
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Candidate for Censor


Subject:	[novaroma] Digest No 1736
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:18:26 -0500

Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD

I wish to thank Quaestor Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator for his latest
*positive* contribution.
This is another example of the type of post that should be found more often
on the Forum.
It's easy in these days to find contention and strife, all I need to do is
turn on the TV to see plenty. I joined Nova Roma to find fellowship among
those who value the things that made Rome *great*, not indulge in the type
of behavior that brought Rome to ruin. As Saturnalia approaches I hope
everyone will take some time to remember those things that make us happy and
maybe a little more time to share them.

Bene omnibus nobis

Mars nos protegas!

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 17
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:21:37 -0600
From: Steven Robinson <catamount_grange@-------->
Subject: A View of Saturnalia

Salus Omnes,

From:
http://www.circlesanctuary.org/pholidays/

Saturnalia

Winter Solstice in Pagan Rome

by Selena Fox

This was first published for a workshop at 1993 Circle Sanctuary Community
Yule Festival.

Timing of Saturnalia
varied during the course of Roman history.
began as feast days for Saturn (December 17) and Ops (December 19).
with Julian calendar, Saturnalia on December 17 & 18; Opalia on December
19 & 20.
during the empire, extended to a week (December 17-23); longer with other
holidays.

Associated holiday festivals
Consualia, end of sowing season festival (December 15).
Dies Juvenalis, Coming of Age for Young Men (mid-December).
Feast of Sol Invicta, the Unconquered Sun, set in 274 A. D. (December 25).
Brumalia, Winter Solstice on pre-Julian calendar (December 25).
Christmas (December 25), Christians move Christ's birthday to this date in
336 A.D.
Janus Day and Beginning of Calendar Year (January 1), set in 153 B.C.;
again in 45 B.C.
Compitalia, blessing of the fields rural festival (January 3-5).

Deities honored around Winter Solstice time
Saturn - God of Agriculture; merged with the Greek Cronos.
Ops - Goddes of Plenty; Mother Earth; partner to Saturn and Consus.
Sol Invicta - Sun God; connected with the Persian Mithra, honored by Roman
soldiers.
Consus - God of Storebin of Harvested Grain.
Juventas - Goddess of Young Manhood; related to Greek Hebe of Youthful
Beauty.
Janus - God of Beginnings and Gates; Solar God of Daybreak; Creator God.

Celebrations included
merry-making
rest and relaxation
connections with family and friends
celebrating beginning of Solar year
prayers for protection of Winter crops
honoring Deities

Legacies of Saturnalia in contemporary holiday celebrations
Religious Rituals -- joining in spiritual community to honor the Divine.
Honored Figures -- Santa and Father Time -- Saturn; Holy Mother -- Ops.
Sacred Flames -- candles lit and new fires kindled to represent new Solar
year.
Greens -- Holly given with gifts, homes decorated with wreaths and
garlands.
Time Off from Work -- government, schools, businesses closed; multiple
days off.
Peace -- dispensing of punishments suspended and courts closed; wars
ceased.
Relaxing with Family and Friends -- renewing bonds, sharing celebration.
Gift Giving -- dolls to children, candles to friends; fruit symbols
representing increase.
Feasting -- sharing food with family and friends; on-going eating and
drinking.
Helping Less Fortunate -- class distinctions suspended; food for all;
masters waiting on
servants.
Exhuberant Play -- masquerades, gaming, gambling, mock king, jokes,
partying, letting loose.
Paper Hats -- soft hats (pilei) worn at Saturnalia banquets to signify
informality.
Dancing in the New Solar Year -- music and dancing.

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html


Subject:	[novaroma] In the name of.... what?
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:59:35 +0100

Salvete Quirites Novae Romae,

Elections can an odd sort of show, if beheld from a distance. People trying
to make themselves popular at the expense of someone else. Some voting for
this candidate simply because they don't believe in the other one. Bombastic
endorsements are written, full of flattery. Fireballs are thrown into the
mailing list, burning with anger. Some poor victims and enthusiasts are
moderated. Others perish in their own publicity. The white togae of the
candidates become dirty with tomato spots, or are torn a part and spit upon
by their opponents. And then, a voice speaks of the Roman virtues.

What virtues?

About half a year ago, I used to speak of the virtues in such times, how we
could learn something from them, and that it seemed as though we had
forgotten all about them. Now, I have come to think of it as arrogant to
speak of virtues, or to speak for something so vast and enormous as the
spirit of the ancient Romans, commonly named "Romanitas". This romanhood, if
you will, is - according to me at least - not something one is born with, or
something that can be picked up and learnt. In my opinion, being Roman is
the sum of everything you are and do. If a candidate endorses another one,
of course it is self-serving, but it is human... and Roman. If a voter
incites his fellow voters into throwing stones, bricks or other mammals at a
disliked candidate, of course that is brutal and mean, but it is also
human... and Roman.

Now, an attentive reader may be thinking: "Nice little speech on togas, but
what's your point?". If I were Fidel Castro, I would have time to treat my
good audience on speeches lasting nine hours, but unfortunately I'm not as
gifted in the art of dictatorship as mister Castro, and will therefore get
to the point straighteaway.

I am especially referring to the current conflict here, which, named after a
famous movie, could be called "The People versus Sokarus Apollonius".
Sokarus is my frater, and through several mailing lists he is a member of,
I've come to known him as a very curious, enthusiastic and driven young man.
Like him, I believe in justice and fairness, and I thank him for his
endorsement of both my frater Tiberius Apollonius, and myself. On the other
hand, those he accuses, Lucius Cornelius and Quintus Fabius, have always
been in the frontline of Nova Roma, and have frequently done thankless and
expensive work - especially as far as L. Cornelius goes. Now, what can cause
such a roaring conflict then, if these are basically three good and upright
individuals? Nothing, a part from the fact - and here's the catch - that
they are human, and Roman! It is simply in our nature to disagree with one
another, and that cannot be changed.

That being said, Sokarus will probably always retain his passionate nature.
Likewise will Lucius Cornelius retain his opinions on the legislation he
authored. So, mi frater, despite the fact that I bear the same nomen as you
do, I would advise you the following: the only way to change your name is to
request it from the next Censor, or, as Marcus Octavius suggested, become a
candidate for office next year. And, same goes for the other things in Nova
Roma you see as problems.

Of course, I am not free from these things. Despite my flowery advice to
both parties to quit arguing - from an economical, neutral point of view - I
have been, and undoubtedly will make myself guilty of needless conflicts,
having a notoriously short fuse myself. However, I do hope my words will be
taken into consideration. I sincerely hope not to get a tomato thrown at me
for this one ;-).

Thank you for your attention,

Dii vos semper ament,
Sextus Apollonius Draco

<< PETITOR AEDILIS PLEBIS >>


Subject:	[novaroma] Market Day, 5 December 2754
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:37:16 -0600 (CST)

Salvete Omnes,

Today, the Nones of December, is a Market Day. All citizens are invited
to participate in the regularly scheduled chat in the Forum at
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/chat/chat

This is the last Market Day chat before the start of the election. Come
and see the candidates tear each other to bloody shreds! Gangs of hired
thugs armed with clubs may be present; enter at your own risk.

As always, there are two recommend start times, due to our timezone
differences:

I. 8pm Roma, 7pm UK, 2pm US/Eastern

II. 9pm US/Eastern, 6pm Pacific (3am Roma)

Valete, M. Octavius Germanicus.
Candidate for Consul
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/consul/

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator

http://www.konoko.net/~haase/

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Nationalism vs. Nova Romanism
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:57:47 -0500 (EST)

Honored Magstrates and Citizens of Nova Roma;

Nationalism:-- while it is a wonderful thing to have a great pride in
the accoplishments and standing of your mother nation in the world (God
knows I do!!!) the differentiation of polical lines on the face of the
earth (which often change) seems to me to be rather short-sighted.

Rather behavior, skill, and administrative ability should and must be
the order of the day--particularly in a period of selection of your
representatives for the coming year.

In regard to the absolute of communication, I call your attention to the
fact that the world over English is the language of diplomatic and
commercial enterprise today, just as French was in the 18th and 19th
centuries, and Latin was during the period that we would bring back to
life. The problem is that today most people do not speak Latin as a
usable language, and that is not likely to change any time soon. I
fully respect those who do speak Latin, and any other language of their
native land, or the current attempt at a universal language; Esperanto.
However the truth is, that the language most often spoken by the most
people throughout the world in English. English is not another word for
North-American, but rather for England which is normally considered by
all but the most rabid Euopean Nationalists to be part of Europe.

The problem is further compounded in that as a Senator and Magistrate, I
represent the whole spectrum of the Nova Roman Citizenery. I should
like to hear from those people who do not speak my language, so that I
may know their ideas, thier concerns and thier suggestions. That only
way, in the current world, that I (or my colleagues) may do that is
through a system which requires an English translation attached to the
original correspondence. I admit that this is awkward for some, but it
is the only way that the Magistrates and the Senate can do the job
expected of them by the Citizens of Nova Roma. Perhaps we may set up an
alternate List for languages other than English to which those who do
not speak English can post. Then as we are assured by Master Limitus
when those communcations are in fact seen by people within NR who are
willing to translate those messages, the English translation may be
directed to the Main List. In that way only the timeliness of the
message is affected, but the essence of the ideas, concerns, and
comments of the writer are preserved for the majority to observe and
enjoy.

I abhor the idea that NR is not a universal organization. I fully
upport the idea that people of skill, knowledge, and admistrative
ability should have positions in Nova Roma in direct proportion to thier
abiity for the task that they present themselves. This should not under
any circumstances have to be a slave to any political boundary or
continent.

I share the regret that we have no universal language in wide usage that
ranks with the usage of English, however it is a situation thrust upon
us, by the shortsightness of our anchestors on all continents for a
variety of reasons, and we must deal with it both effectively and
intelligently, while insuring that those who represent the citizens of
Nova Roma, are able to truly represent all the citizens, not just a few.

I have visited many countries in my life and look forward to the return
to as many as my means and life period will allow. I have always found
sound counsel and a reasonable demeanor wherever I have traveled, be it
Spain, Turkey, North Africa, The Orient, Western Europe, or South
America. I only ask that you as the Citizens of Nova Roma look to the
workable and not the radical, the ability and not the nationality, the
kindness and viability, and not the color or religion, and the service
in place of the creed. We are summoned to this place by an interest in
thngs Roman--we maintain our place by those areas in which we indulge
and that which we learn, and we endeavor with the idea of service. All
of these foregoing ideas embrace a set of universal ideals. rather than
those of a given nationality, creed, religion or language. Judge my
friends not upon the small-mindedness of national interests, but rather
upon the unversal ideas of abiity and willingness to serve.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens


Subject:	[novaroma] Language Policy
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 20:08:09 +0200

M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilis Plebeius omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

I am very glad to see that the race between Limitanus and Vedia has
reopened the question of language policy on the Main List, which has
been a running sore on the Respublica.

Let me remind everyone that my interest is professional: I am in the
Interlinguistics and Ethnolinguistics programmes of my university's
Linguistics Institute. Interlinguistics has been defined as being the
subdiscipline of linguistics which is concerned with what happens when
speakers of different native tongues come together to communicate. Which
language should predominate, on the basis of what criteria should it be
chosen? There are many considerations in such cases, and neither
"majority" status in some place nor simple "communication" are adequate
as bases for making language-use decisions.

Language is not simply a matter of "communication", but is also a
matter of *identity* and *expression*. Our linguistic identities are not
much easier to change than our skin colour. (Michael Jackson has proved
a change of skin colour possible to a significant degree, and a very few
people as adults are so extraordinarily gifted that they can learn a
foreign language so well as to be able to speak it almost exactly like a
native.) For most of us, however, our native language is a basic part of
our identity, not a minor accessory for purely utilitarian purposes. If
a policy is put into effect that would tend to discriminate against
English speakers or Hungarian speakers, those groups will very naturally
feel that it is directed against them as people. And they cannot
instantly learn some other language that others wish them to, and if
they do acquire it, it will in almost all cases be less good than that
of a native speaker of the same natural intelligence. This can create
real injustices and understandable resentments.

Language is also a tool of expression. If I were to choose to write
in, say, Chinese, even though that is not my native language, that would
be in and of itself showing something about my love for and interest in
Chinese culture. It is perfectly possible that I might sometimes prefer
to be understood by fewer people on a list because of a desire to either
use my native language or another language which is special for me.

The present language policy imposed on this list by Vedia is
ostensibly to improve communication. It completely neglects, however,
the other aspects that a well-based language policy must take into
consideration.

The present policy indeed permits any language - but only if the
sender of a non-English post goes to the extra trouble and the delay in
getting it posted of getting it translated into English. This extra
burden and delay are obviously discriminatory against those who choose
to write in languages other than English, even if the office of the
Curator Sermonis is willing to help with providing the translation.
Still worse, it gives English a privileged position, and that means that
those *people* who do not prefer English for any reason (and there are
many good and natural reasons available) are personally unprivileged in
all of their Main List communications, and to that extent made
second-class citizens in Nova Roma.

There is no ideal solution other than the *impractical* one of
insisting that all posters on the Main List use Latin - which is our
natural Language, and otherwise rather neutral. The nearest I can
propose to a *practical* solution is simply to remove all artificial
limitations on language use and make translations available *on request*
and *between any two languages* as our translation resources allow.
Under such conditions each poster could weigh his own priorities in
terms of communication, urgency, self-identity, and expressive
preference. It is reasonable to expect that most posts would continue to
be in English, still the language of the majority and the language that
many non-native speakers might willingly use if they are sufficiently
able, just to communicate with the greatest number of list readers.
Those with other priorities and preferences, however, would have the
freedom to follow their own language preferences just like their fellow
cives who have the "luck" to be native English speakers.

The matter of language policy has been handled very badly in the
past year. The present policy has been imposed without any true
consensus. In the course of the debates the Curatrix closed the very
active discussion on her own policy to stop her critics from being
heard. I myself was moderated due to that illegal and highly unproper
act. The Curatrix was pressured to reverse the closure, and the debate
continued, but got nowhere due to the absolute determination of the
Curatrix to shove her policy down our throats and show off her power.

I indeed proposed to Consul Vedius that a Linguistic Policy Study
Committee be set up to include Vedia, me as a specialist in the field,
and provincial governors of non-English-speaking provinces. The
suggestion was summarily refused.

Due to my criticism of the inequitable and undemocratic nature of
this policy Vedia has expressed the most extreme venom and ad hominem
nastiness imaginable towards me in other places such as the Civil
Rights List. This makes one wonder whether she really believes in her
own guidelines on this one, and greatly undermines her moral authority
in this position. Having lived through periods in which the Main List
had no moderator, in which Patricia Cassia was Curatrix and in which
Vedia was, I must say that we have had the most serious problems with
our freedom of expression with Vedia in the past year. She has also
shown herself to be often most supercilious and confrontational towards
others, and more concerned with her own domination of the list than with
providing us with a neutral, smoothly-functioning and
consensually-managed place to carry out our essential political and
other discussions as Nova Romans.

Nova Roma is therefore very fortunate to have an alternative
candidate of a very different stamp in the person of Limitanus. I have
on this list disagreed with him on some things concerning American
foreign policy. But within the Nova Roman context he has earned my
respect as a person deeply imbued with democratic principles, decency,
fairness, a fearless willingness to speak out against cronyism and
corruption, and a true respect for freedom of speech. He is also a
dedicated multi-culturalist, who would give equal dignity and freedom to
all of our citizens, not just to North Americans and English speakers.

I would hope, however, that Nova Roma would choose not to change its
language policy from year to year with the characters and culture of
different Curatores. Nova Roma still needs a policy that would strictly
uphold the *equality* of *all* our citizens' languages, while giving
Latin a place of special honour and encouragement. I hope that Limitanus
as Curator will be able to also achieve such a lasting contribution.

Valete!

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Renewed public petition
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:19:28 +0100

Salve Tite Horati,

<< Well, the messages of the candidates are not suposed to be a danger for
the Republic, and if it is so, it is good that to be patent. As for the
civilty policy, we all know that was not the case of Limitanus, but of some
other cives. >>

I would like to second your words, and join you in your petition. Elections
are always somewhat of an exception ;).

Vale bene,

PS: By the way, the proper term is "Curator Sermonis" (female "Curatrix
Sermonis")


Subject:	[novaroma] Endorsements of Candidacy
From:	Oppius Flaccus Severus <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 11:37:46 -0800

Salvete Quiritibus;

As we proceed toward the next big election, I wanted to take this opportunity
to outline some of my personal recommendations for certain offices that are
open for next year. I believe that as cives it is vital that we stand
behind the
candidates that we believe in and those in which we place the most faith
and trust.

To that end, please indulge me in viewing the list below. By way of preface,
please bear in mind that these are 'personal' recommendations and that your
mileage may vary. If you disagree, that's fine. I invite you to present
your own
statement of support for your chosen candidates so that all cives in the
respublica
may have the opportunity to choose well.

(NOTE: Statement of support for a particular candidate should not in any way
presuppose a dislike or disagreement with other candidates running for the
same position.)

Consul:
=============
Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Probably not a surprising choice on my part, given
our long
working relationship, friendship and my undying respect for all the
tireless and selfless
work and resources he has devoted to the Respublica. I support much of his
political
agenda and believe he has the best interests of the Republic at heart.
Additionally, I've
had the benefit of breaking bread with him many times and know on a very
personal gut
level that he's the 'real deal.' He is also a champion (amongst many other
things,) of the
handbook concept and we have worked closely for months on the creation of
the Censor
Web (handbook project.) He comes with my highest recommendation.

Praetor:
===============
One of the toughest decisions ever. We have three selfless, dedicated and
excellent
cives volunteering to fill the office. I have personally witnessed their
achievements; both
collective and individual and they each fill the highest of Respublican
standards in their
own right.

That being said, I have to personally and unequivocally recommend Titus
Labienus Fortunatus
for the office. Though he and I have disagreed often in the past; and I
would be the first to say
that our politics are vastly different-he has my utmost and complete
respect. He is tempered,
measured and fair in all things; has shown himself to be a tireless Tribune
and his knowledge
of law and his skill in constitutional interpretation is second to none.
This is not to detract in
any way from Po or Fabius; both of whom I esteem very highly.

Censor:
==================
As I know neither candidate well on a personal level, I can but go with my
gut and the
Senatorial record. In this regard, I would recommend Caius Flavius
Diocletianus. He is
quite knowledgeable and experienced in the Senate and in NR's budding legal
clarification
efforts.

Tribunus Plebis
=================
Gnaeus Salix Astur. I began respecting him from the moment he joined and
that respect
has done nothing but increase during his tenure. A tireless worker and
continual promoter
of the Respublica and its interests -both internally and externally. He
always has fresh
perspective, good well-crafted ideas and an infectious sense of humour and
enthusiasm.
For me, he seems the natural choice to continue the top-notch legacy
established by
Tribune Labienus.

Aedilis Curulis
==================
Caseo Fabius Quintilianus. He is known to me to be an endless champion of
the Provinces
(a 'pet' issue of mine,) and a tireless worker. He has been instrumental in
structuring provincial
methodologies in conjunction with his duties as Quaestor.

Aedilis Plebis
==================
Again, I must go against my 'political grain' here and endorse Sextus
Apollonius Draco.
There can be absolutely no question that he has done more than just about
anyone
to champion the cause of the arts and activities within Nova Roma. He has
continually
provided guidance and creative ideas on a number of levels and has shown
himself to
be consistently active and determined. That he continues to desire to serve
the nation
in spite of some of his previous political setbacks is a credit to his
character.

Quaestor:
==============
Again, the Respublica is blessed with a wealth of very qualified
candidates. My personal
recommendation is to Gaius Popillius Laenas. He is sincere in his desire to
climb the
Cursus and has spent much time inquiring as to the conduct of the office
and his political
ideals are fairly closely aligned with mine.

Curator Araneum:
===============
For me, there is no choice other than Marcus Octavius. He has been a
tireless worker/programmer/
manager/creator in the web realm, but his impact has gone far beyond just
what people see on
the website. His chat development enhancements, mail management and server
management for
multiple domains has been truly extraordinary. Though I must admit that I
agree with Franciscus'
statement regarding increased 'interactivity,' this will come in time. The
real 'proof' is in the backend
(server side,) and this is where Marcus Octavius shines most brightly. I
for one wish to see him
continue his great work.

Curator Sermonis
=============
Out of respect to others, I will refrain from extensive comment here and
simply state that
there can really be no other viable choice in my view. Priscilla Vedia
hands down.

Rogator:
=============
Julilla Sempronia Magna. As a civis of my province, she is known to be a
highly motivated
and dedicated worker in all things. As I'm not really very familiar with
the other candidates here,
she is my natural choice.

Gratias multas amices et quirites for lending me your ear. My best wishes
to all candidates
and a hearty THANKS to all that have so selflessly answered the call to
stand for election.

Bene valete in Pace Deorum,
-Oppius Flaccus Severus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:38:24 -0500 (EST)

Master Sokarus Apollonius Callias;

I must take offense at your inclusion of a "female who runs for Praetor"
in your recent inflamatory post Pompeia Cornelia Strabo is "that
female" to whom you refer, and she brings to Nova Roma an even temper
and set of ideals (apparently unlike your own) as well as an
understanding of the necessity not to make deliberate ememies without
cause (again unlike your own) and some very real skills in
administartion and the ability to provide service for those who depend
upon her 9which apparently it would benefit you to learn).

She has served well in th past and present as Scrbae and Legata in the
Sodalitas Egressus and Militarium. She has shown her worth as a
Consular Accensus, and has served successfully as a Provincial
ProPraetor in Canada. She has organized and carried out a Nova Roma
Event in her area, which was significantly marked with success. When
you may achieve such successes, then perhaps you can be more correctly
critical of a Candidate for Praetor like this lady of many parts.
Pompeia Strabo has my fullest support as a Candidate for the office of
Praetor, since she has the ability to complete the tasks that she sets
for herself, and since she has the ability to work well with others, and
deal with the different views of those of the goverment of Nova Roma.

Your insulting language and intent touches me as well, since I hold an
honored position in the Senate and as a Magistrate in Nova Roma, both of
which were voted to me by the citizens of Nova Roma. So by inference,
when you insult me, your insult those who were responsible for voting me
as thier representative. I have served a Co-Consul and Quaestor to Q.
Fabius Maximus and find him to be a hard working Magistarte for Nova
Roma. My experience with both of these Candidates indicates that they
are both honorable people, and have the interests of Nova Roma at heart
over the considerations of thier nationalities, again something from
which you could well learn a lesson.

You do no honor to your Gens or to those who share common bond with you
with your accusations and foolish words, which have no basis in fact.

Marcus Minucius Audens


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:56:52 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I am not able to comment upon the tasks set for former Accensus
Palladius by our Senior Consul. Such is beteween he and his former
Accensus. However, I do know that I as extremely proud to serve as
Accensus myself to Senator Palladius during a period when he served
alone as Consul. This was a time when Consul Germanicus was serving as
Dictator, and at that time the then Consul alladius was a very busy man.
However, he always had time to answer my messages, my comments, and my
ideas. He was one of two Senators to urge my Candidacy for Praetor and
later for Consul. He made the long trip from his then home in Nw
Hampshire to attend the meeting set up in Southern Massachusetts for the
Province Nova Britannia in ProConsul Julianus' governorship. He is a
kind man, who has the interests of Nova Roma very much at heart, and who
is able and clever in ideas and thier execution.

In retrospect I should be privaledged to serve with the gentleman in any
position that he thought hmself qualified for, as an assistant to him.
I consider this man, ProConsul Palladius, to be an honorable man, and
honorable magistrate, and in my experience a gentleman who was never too
busy with his commitents to answer my questions of him, praise my
efforts for him, or encourage my further efforts for Nova Roma.

It may well be that ProConsul Palladius has copletely chnged in the
intervening years, ut Ihave seen no eveidence of such a change, in fact
he has evidenced a significant interest of lateboth in the coming
election and in Senate Affairs.

However, since the Senior Consul has dismissed two aides during this
year as a Senior Magistrate it seems that he is having some difficulties
with getting satisfactory service for some reason. The Senior Consul's
unique manner of experession of his views to we lesser animals comes to
mind, but I am sure it is only my overactive imagination and my lack of
understanding of the needs of higher office that clouds my view


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Renewed public petition
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:01:20 -0500

>Titus Horatius Atticus at esteves@-------- wrote:
>
> I am sorry to insist on this, but I just want to show my fellow citizens how
> bizarre this situation is: Priscilla Vedia, curatrix sermonem and candidate
> for this very magistracy for the next term, performs previous control
> (censura praevia) on the messages of her opponent Limitanus.

I support Priscilla Vedia. But I must add that Titus Horatius is correct
here.

I believe that Priscilla Vedia has good intent behind the censoring of
Limitanus. Although with this being your political opponent I feel as though
you must give Limitanus reasonable freedom to post up what he wants.

I don't believe you are abusing your power. Although it can look like it
from a distance. Let Limitanus once again post up what he wants, let Nova
Roma see his full political personality. It will be fair as he is your
opponent, and would most likely show that you are the person for the job,
and *not* Limitanus.

Vale,

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] In the name of.... what?
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:20:12 -0500 (EST)

Well said Sextus Apollonius Draco---Well said!!!!

The virtues of which you speak are to me the goals which none of us will
ever quite reach. Each is perfecton and we as mortals are not perfect.
We anger, we bluster, we make mistakeson ocasions, even (gasp) lose our
tempers at something which is terribly important to us. The idea here
is, (at least to my way of thinking) is to learn from one's mistakes,
don't anger, bluster quite as often. Speak softer and not reply
stridently quite so often, and try to resist the temptation to consistly
push something down someone else's throat when they have no relish for
it.

Perfection???? Alas, not in the cards. Improvement, perhaps a doable
goal!!

Respectfully;
Mrcus Minucius Audens


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): Nonis Decembribus (Decemberr 5th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:28:11 -0000

ANTONIVS GRYLLVS GRAECVS PONTIFEX OMNIBVS QVIRITIBVS

This is one of the dies fasti (F), on which legal actions are permitted.

Today is a rustic festival in honour of Faunus, tutelary spirit of the wild
woodlands and guardian of the flocks. Though the festival is marked on urban
calendars, it was mostly observed in the 'pagi' (countryside districts)
outside of the city of Rome, where the farmers offer wine, incense and a kid
in sacrifice for the blessing of their farms. The festival is best described
by Horatius [Horatius Flaccus, Odes, 3.18], probably based on his personal
experience:

"Faune, Nympharum fugientum amator,
per meos finis et aprica rura
lenis incedas abeasque parvis
aequus alumnis,

si tener pleno cadit haedus anno
larga nec desunt Veneris sodali
vina craterae, vetus ara multo
fumat odore.

ludit herboso pecus omne campo
cum tibi nonae redeunt Decembres,
festus in pratis vacat otioso
cum bove pagus,

inter audacis lupus errat agnos,
spargit agrestis tibi silva frondes,
gaudet invisam pepulisse fossor
ter pede terram."

"O wont the flying Nymphs to woo,
Good Faunus, through my sunny farm
Pass gently, gently pass, nor do
My younglings harm.

Each year, thou know'st, a kid must die
For thee; nor lacks the wine's full stream
To Venus' mate, the bowl; and high
The altars steam.

Sure as December's Nones appear,
All o'er the grass the cattle play;
The village, with the lazy steer,
Keeps holyday.

Wolves rove among the fearless sheep;
The woods for thee their foliage strow;
The delver loves on earth to leap,
His ancient foe."

Faunus also had a temple built in the Tiber Island, whose dedication
aniversary was on February 13.

The month of December is sacred to Vesta.

Di vos bene ament


Subject:	[novaroma] Comments about the proposed laws
From:	"M Arminius Maior" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:33:07 -0300

Salvete, Quirites

Here are my comments about the proposed laws

- Lex de Tribuni
An excellent law, that will solve various problems in the Tribunate, and i will vote in favor. But there is a point that could cause problems: the item "f" can be interpreted as a prohibition to a Tribune to call the Comitia Plebis to order when the Patrician Ordo is over to 10% of the population. However, in my interpretation, i believe that the Tribuni can call both the Comitiae in the present situation.

- Lex de Liberus Civium
There is not much to comment about this law, its a better adaptation to the underage cives.

- Lex de Quaestores
It seems that everybody commented this law, and are against it, for obvoius reasons. The intentions were good, but the result would be not. Unless someone explains that the bonding is much more cheap than the estimatives, i will vote against this law.

- Lex de Oratio
A strange law. It seems to be a protection against a Curator Sermo that becames mad. Im against this law, i prefer to see a Curator as a magistrate with their normal powers.

- Lex de Magistratum Aetate
Nothing to add to this law, it is perfect. With this, the steps necessary to a underage aplicant would be more clear. However, this law doesnt mention the need of approvation by the Censores, nor the 2/3 votes needed in the Senate.

Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
Aedilis Plebeius
Petitor Tribunus Plebis


Subject:	[novaroma] (No Subject)
From:	"M Arminius Maior" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:35:09 -0300

Salvete, Quirites

Here is my own list of endoresements.
But first, let me state that i am a bit decepcionated. Though the candidates are all really excellent, the number of them to the various positions decreased from one year to now. There was three candidates for Consul, and now are two; there was six candidates fro Praetor, and now are three; and there was six candidates for Tribunus, and now, are only two. Only the positions of Aedilis Plebis and the Vigintisexviri the number of applicants grew. Counting them all, last year we had 34 candidates for 24 positions, and now, 32 candidates for 26 positions. I expected much more candidates, since our population grow.
Hmm. Well, at least, the pool of candidates are very good.

- Comitia Centuriata
CENSOR
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Comments: Both candidates for censorship are very qualified; but it was Diocletianus that passed in the test of being a Curule magistrate and a Senator, and i will vote for him.

CONSUL
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Comments: Both candidates for Consul are excellent; the Sulla-the-Censor is the very first novaroman that i contacted in the Forum Romanum, and Marcus Octavius did an outstanding work not only as Curator, but as Senator, showing more roman virtues than im capable of enumerate. After a long time undecided, i choose to vote in M.Octavius.

PRAETOR
UNDECIDED between Titus Labienus Fortunatus and Pompeia Cornelia Strabo.
Comments: The work of Fortunatus as Tribunus Plebis was impeccable, and i trust him very much; and i perceive in Pompeia a great commitment to Nova Roma, a great wish to serve, excellent opinions, dignitas and industria. Though Q.Fabius lost the opportinity to serve actively their full term because of the War, i prefer to see a constant renewal in the Novaroman magistratures, specially the curule ones.

- Comitia Plebis Tributa
AEDILIS PLEBEIUS
Sextus Apollonius Draco
Comments: Sextus Apollonius candidated for Aedile last year, but didnt obtained a waive, since he in underage. But he was my Scriba Aedile, and he excelled; good job, Draco! Thanks to him, the Festival at Cerealia was a success. Draco proved that he is more than capable of being a magistrate. Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix had impressed me in some conversations, with enthusiasm and commitment. Good luck for you, Cicatrix.

TRIBUNUS PLEBIS
Ah, since i am a candidate, i will not comment about this position here.

- Comitia Populi Tributa
AEDILIS CURULE
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Comments: Amulius Claudius made interesting proposals to the Aedileship; however, i will vote for Caeso Fabius, that showed enormous capacity as Propraetor of Thule.

QUAESTOR
Undecided!
Its hard to decide upon a position that appears so few...

CURATOR ARANEUM
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Comment: When i compare the website as it was in july/99 and compare now, i have a impression that i arrived in a website made of bricks, and see now one made with marble... :). Normally, i avoit to vote in a candidate that runs for two positions, AND for one of them in sequence... but M.Octavius says that he will do the work, and i believe him. My vote is yours!

CURATOR DIFFERUM
Marcus Scipiadus Scipio Africanus
Comment: It would be nice if the next curator consider the possibility of involve South America in the "Eagle" distribution.

CURATOR SERMO
Manius Villius Limitanus
Comment: Both Priscilla and Manius are qualified to this position. However, i prefer to vote in Manius. Their proposition will stimulate people who are not fluent in english to post in the list and participate. Limitanus is my Legate in Brazil, and he participate in a micronational congress
in behalf of our province; when he said that the english is mandatory, a lot of people became disappointed. So, i endorse his politic of permitting the posting of messages without translation to english; i doesnt think that it will be such as disastrous, but rather enforce the multicultural aspects of Nova Roma, preservating at the same time the civility in our main list.

ROGATOR
Titus Horatius Atticus
Comment: Atticus is doing a good job as Legate, here in Provincia Brasilia; he impressed me with their enthusiasm and industria; and i will vote him to be Rogator of Nova Roma.

Valete bene
Marcus Arminius Maior
Aedilis Plebeius
Petitor Tribunus Plebis


Subject:	[novaroma] Comments about the candidates
From:	"M Arminius Maior" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:35:37 -0300


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Language Policy
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:35:19 -0500

Salve M. Apollonius,

I can see what you are saying. I wish their was a compromising solution.
Although this seems impossible. If any language was to be posted then
moderation of this list would be greatly affected. Sure these could be
translated in a perfect world. I just can't see this working as you expect
in reality.

When I weigh language vs moderation of the list, moderation still comes out
on top. I am cautious to vote other wise because of the great importance of
this list. I would hate to elect someone who could put this list in
jeopardy. Vedia and her policies have worked fairly well. Translation is
definitely worth looking at, I would just like to see a guarantee that all
messages would be translated on a daily bases before I could see myself
supporting anyone else.

Vale,

>M. Apollonius Formosanus at bvm3@-------- wrote:
>
> The present language policy imposed on this list by Vedia is
> ostensibly to improve communication. It completely neglects, however,
> the other aspects that a well-based language policy must take into
> consideration.


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	"morosbe2001" <hadescallias@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 20:45:40 -0000

Salve Marcus Minucius
> I must take offense at your inclusion of a "female who runs for
Praetor"
> in your recent inflamatory post Pompeia Cornelia Strabo is "that
> female" to whom you refer, and she brings to Nova Roma an even
temper
> and set of ideals (apparently unlike your own) as well as an
> understanding of the necessity not to make deliberate ememies
without
>
> You do no honor to your Gens or to those who share common bond with
you
> with your accusations and foolish words, which have no basis in
I should point out that i clarified that in one of earlier posts that
i do not despise women and that it was ment for Priscilla Vedia.
Pomepia Cornelia Strabo, my apologies if i hurt your feelings.
Marcus go with your time. And the last thing i needed was a comment
from a moral crusader so back away. This is not your fight. Pick your
own damn fights. My fight is right now with those three people, noy
with you.
Vale optime
Sokarus Apollonius Callias


Subject:	[novaroma] Main List Moderation
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:46:21 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

As Consul, I insisted with my Co-Consul Q. Fabius Maximus on an
unmoderated List for several months, before it became painfully apparent
that such a privaledge was not possible in Nova Roma at that time. From
that time Mistresses Serena and Pompeia have done a very satisfactory
job of maintaining a decent and informative list. Neither is it the
"Back Alley" where insults and cursing are an acceptable format, nor is
it the carefully laundered unflavorable, uninteresting list that it
might well be otherwise.

In addition, and as I have said before, the maintaince of understanding
on this list is imperative that those who represent the Citizens of Nova
Rom must be aware of thier desires, concerns and ideas. This cannot be
achieved practically and in the current time without the applications
set in place by the present moderator. I have in another place made a
suggestion directed at relieving the frustration of a few loudly
verbalizing opponents, but the plain fact is that if we want to continue
to hear from the majority of our citizens we must converse in the
universal language of diplmacy and commerce, with translations required
from those who are not able to use such a language. Such a course for
the present is not only practical, but necessary, until a fairer system
can be formulated. I would ask those opposers of the present system to
direct thier efforts to such a proposal rather than echoing the same
tired arguments that cannot be practically implemented.

Therefore, I support the work of the present Moderation Team, and would
ask that you too support them with your votes for thier continuence, as
well as your ongratulations for their excellent work to date,
particularly in dealing with opinionated individuals who do not have a
clear idea of the practical applications of thier desires for immediate
chaos of this very valuable list.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"radams36" <radams40@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 20:47:41 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, MarcusAudens@w... wrote:
> Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> I am not able to comment upon the tasks set for former Accensus
> Palladius by our Senior Consul. Such is beteween he and his former
> Accensus. However, I do know that I as extremely proud to serve as
> Accensus myself to Senator Palladius during a period when he served
> alone as Consul. This was a time when Consul Germanicus was
serving as
> Dictator, and at that time the then Consul alladius was a very busy
man.
> However, he always had time to answer my messages, my comments, and
my
> ideas. He was one of two Senators to urge my Candidacy for Praetor
and
> later for Consul. He made the long trip from his then home in Nw
> Hampshire to attend the meeting set up in Southern Massachusetts
for the
> Province Nova Britannia in ProConsul Julianus' governorship. He is a
> kind man, who has the interests of Nova Roma very much at heart,
and who
> is able and clever in ideas and thier execution.
>
> In retrospect I should be privaledged to serve with the gentleman
in any
> position that he thought hmself qualified for, as an assistant to
him.
> I consider this man, ProConsul Palladius, to be an honorable man,
and
> honorable magistrate, and in my experience a gentleman who was
never too
> busy with his commitents to answer my questions of him, praise my
> efforts for him, or encourage my further efforts for Nova Roma.
>
> It may well be that ProConsul Palladius has copletely chnged in the
> intervening years, ut Ihave seen no eveidence of such a change, in
fact
> he has evidenced a significant interest of lateboth in the coming
> election and in Senate Affairs.
>
> However, since the Senior Consul has dismissed two aides during this
> year as a Senior Magistrate it seems that he is having some
difficulties
> with getting satisfactory service for some reason. The Senior
Consul's
> unique manner of experession of his views to we lesser animals
comes to
> mind, but I am sure it is only my overactive imagination and my
lack of
> understanding of the needs of higher office that clouds my view

I have always admired your thoughtful and well-moderated tone, Marce,
and your unfailingly positive attitude - now I must tip my hat to
your droll wit, as well. Your recommendations and endorsements are
given greater weight by your own consistently honorable and
intelligent discourse here on the list - I will keep them in mind as
I make my decisions in the upcoming election.

Vale bene,

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus


Subject:	[novaroma] A response to Master Sokarus
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:18:12 -0500 (EST)

Hmmmm!

Threats, cursing and name-calling. Well, I'll say this for you, you
certainly do not care what you say!!!

I am far from a moral-crusader, but rather a simple individual who knows
when someone is mouthing insults.

I would ask that you not tell me what I should do, nor where I shall go,
nor where I shall be pleased to make a stand as I feel it necessary. I
shall take up any position that I feel is indicated in representing the
Citizens of Nova Roma as a Senator and Magistrate. It is both my Oath
and my Intention to do so.

It may well be that you have made a mistake in identifying Mistress
Pompeia. Now, if you are as concerned with propriity as you indicate,
you may apologize lke a gentleman (if you recognize the word).

Those people whom you insult are my colleagues. If you can bring any
proof to the accusations that you propose, I should be happy to bring it
before the Senate as I have done before when accusations were made, and
proof was offered. If you have no proof then I would ask that you keep
silent in those regards until you do have proof. Since you apparently
have little knowledge or experience in socially acceptable behavior, to
insult and accuse a colleague without proof is the same as insulting and
accusing me. Your Pater has been told that, and I now tell you the
same. Offer your proof, or keep it behnd your teeth until you can.

I will not "back off," certainly not from your pitiful declaration /
requirement, and definately not until you can substantiate your rather
outrageous and insulting claims.

Marcus Minucius Audens


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	"radams36" <radams40@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:24:05 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "morosbe2001" <hadescallias@h...> wrote:
> Salve Marcus Minucius
> > I must take offense at your inclusion of a "female who runs for
> Praetor"
> > in your recent inflamatory post Pompeia Cornelia Strabo is "that
> > female" to whom you refer, and she brings to Nova Roma an even
> temper
> > and set of ideals (apparently unlike your own) as well as an
> > understanding of the necessity not to make deliberate ememies
> without
> >
> > You do no honor to your Gens or to those who share common bond
with
> you
> > with your accusations and foolish words, which have no basis in
> I should point out that i clarified that in one of earlier posts
that
> i do not despise women and that it was ment for Priscilla Vedia.
> Pomepia Cornelia Strabo, my apologies if i hurt your feelings.
> Marcus go with your time. And the last thing i needed was a comment
> from a moral crusader so back away. This is not your fight. Pick
your
> own damn fights. My fight is right now with those three people, noy
> with you.
> Vale optime
> Sokarus Apollonius Callias

I feel compelled at this point to place Sokarus on my (thankfully,
very short) list of Nova Romans whom I will no longer respond to, as
his immature, immoderate, and rude behaviour towards listers like
Sulla and Marce who have earned my respect (and that of many other
Nova Romans) many times over, shows me much more of his character
than theirs. His posts here have engendered too many angry responses
already, including my own. I invite any citizens offended by his
immoderate and disrespectful missives to join me in ignoring them
entirely. To you, Sokarus, if you choose at some point to embrace
civility or to post intelligent points instead of ad hominem attacks,
I will be happy to respond to them fittingly. As for now, though,
your contemptuous attitude towards your betters does you no credit at
all. Even if you disagree with them, and I occasionally do, they have
shown themselves worthy of respect. I urge you, for your own good, to
engage in some self-examination - it can only do you good.

Vale,

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:37:59 -0500 (EST)

Master Petrus;

Your Opinon as a new Civis is extremely important. Your views and your
ideas are equally important. I am pleased to hear that your friend
Sokarus is in fact a skilled writer and is devoted to his beliefs.

Such, however, is not the current problem. Running off at the mouth
without the ability to back up his claims and without bothering to
accurately identify the person against whom his accusations (erroneus as
they are) are directed are a problem. Add to the above unacceptable
language on the Main List, and several other features of his
communications which could be improved.

I am pleased to consider any comments from concerned Citizens of NR. I
am always on the outlook for proof of any illegal or dangerous activity
in any NR government position. However, insults, namecalling, foul
language, and disrepectful behavior to a sitting Magistrate, is
offensive to me, and I tend not to give crecedence to those who engage
in such tactics. Perhaps if you were to urge him to dispay those
valuable qualities that you see, in such a way as the rest of us could
appreciate them, things would begin to level out.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens


Subject:	Re: RE: [novaroma] Against the Lex Vedia de Oratio
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:45:43 -0500 (EST)

The Senate, my friend, understands all too well that the Citizens rule
Nova Roma by thier vote. The Senate acts for micronation because the
Citizens have placed them there!!

The senators all, have proven to Nova Roma thier worth by election,
repeated election or by phenominal efforts in the service of the people
of Nova Roma. Such people do not change thier spots overnight!!

The Senate serves the Citizens of Nova Roma as the Citizens have
decreed. The Senate recognizes the Majority, and sees to the Right of
the Minority to be heard. If you happen to be in the Minority, and if
you have n axe to grind, your view may be a liitle confused, but the viw
of the Senators of Nova Roma and thier responsibilities toward the
Citizens is very clear indeed!!!

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens


Subject:	[novaroma] Language problem
From:	"luciuspompeius" <danielovi@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:06:14 -0000

Salvete omnes.
Please let me express an idea I have in mind right now. Language
translation is not a big problem for those of us who have an
intermediate level of English. But it is for those who have a very
limited knowledge of it,or even they do not speak English at all.
However they still keep their love for ancient Rome. The idea I have
in mind right now is that they could get help from their own
provincial governors or somebody else from their provincia in
translating what they wish to post. In this way somebody speaking his
own language and living the same culture and idiosyncracy could help
them post what they wish to express.
Just a thought.
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:09:46 -0500 (EST)

The Honorable Pompeia Cornelia;

Your post was right on. However, our good Senior Consul has (apparently
according to his own words) left the field (unable to handle the
comments on his insulting accusations of Senators Sulla and Palladius)
no doubt.

Once again our Senior Consul has left the task of administering Nova
Roma to his Co-Consul. Since we have been told that Consul Julianus is
a very busy business man on a daily basis I think this behavior id
extremely unfair both to the Co-Consul and to Nova Roma as a whole.

Perhaps these comments of Consul Germanicus, in regard to his thoughts
on the usefulness of his colleagues, his inability to work with his
appointed assistants and his sarcastic responses to Nova Roma Ciizens
and Magistrates, should be remembered in any future ventures into an
elected office. In addition Consul Germanicus' reference to "past
friends" must apparently be translated to read "past people who agreed
with me."

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Sokarus / and his attacks on cives...The legal solution.
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:16:57 EST

Someone asked what Roman law "Sokarus" is breaking, by his attacks.
That law would be Iniuria. Iniuria could be considered an assault against a
citizen's
dignatas, or in the case of the magistrate his auctoritas.
This was usually punished by a fine, the schedule of which would be published
within
the code. Since it occurred in the Forum, in front of many citizens and the
act was dolus - with evil intent - the fine would be higher, then let's say
in a tavern in front of a few people.

If the Censor wanted to lodge a complaint, he would go to the Praetor
Urbanus, state his complaint, subscripto, (usually in writing), and demand
justice. The Praetor Urbanus' job is then to decide if their was a case. If
there was, the case would move forward, if not, it was dismissed.
If the Censor wanted to be certain that the case moved forward he could put
up a sum of money equal to the scheduled fine. Such a thing would guarantee
that the case be heard, but
the money be forfeited to the quaestio if the accused was found not guilty.
In this way Rome sought to limit frivolous law suits.
Now the Praetor Urbanus would appoint a Iudex, usually a sitting Senator or
former Aedile, and decide who would prosecute (accusatio). The Praetor
himself could, but usually could not since he so busy. Usually the
prosecutor was a leading Roman citizen, often a former Praetor.
The accused would hire an advocate to defend him, usually a professional, but
again could be a leading citizen, or Senator.
The case would be read to the Iudex, the accused asked if he was guilty or
not. If guilty the Iudex would consult the schedule, and pronounce the fine.
If not, it proceeded to trial.
The prosecutor would swear an oath of truthfullness, then state the evidence
against the accused. The advocate would answer these charges, trying
convince the Iudex his client was innocent. Witnesses were heard, both were
allowed to cross examine these in an attempt to discredit testimony. When
the last witness was heard, the prosecutor would sum up his facts for the
Iudex, showing that he had proved his case then the advocate would attempt to
sway the Iudex showing him that the prosecutor did not. It was here that
great orators had an advantage.
The Iudex then gave his ruling. Such a trial to day would be called a
hearing.
Romans also had jury trials, iudici, but those rarely would be used in an
Iniuria trial.

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: My Thoughts on Nationalism
From:	"a_cato2002" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:25:39 -0000

Appius Tullius Cato Pompeia Cornelio Strabo S.P.D.

Excellent note Pompeia. Very eloquent and timely. One of the
reasons that we value you so highly as Propraetrix here in Canada
Orientalis. I hope it was read by everyone. Thankyou for composing
and posting that message for us. Your postings always show common
sense, and much careful thought. I only wish that more of us could
express ourselves with the good grace and manners that you display.
Very well done my friend.
Bene vale, Cato


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ave Patricia Cassia!
From:	"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:44:18 +0100

Ave Patricia,

I can only join Pompeia Cornelia in her congratulations! Another day in which it becomes clear that the restauration of Religio Romana isn't just political small talk nor a dream of some romantic souls. I will spent some special attention to Minerva, honouring the gods at my lararium today!

May Minerva walk with you & the cives of our res publica magna!

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Puteus Germanicus
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/

----- Original Message -----
From: trog99@--------
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:32 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Ave Patricia Cassia!

Congratulations, honoured Senatrix on your appointment as Priestess of
Minerva.

One ancient I admire, Gn Pompeius Magnus, built a huge temple in
honour of Minerva.

Another bit of trivia.

It is interesting that upon the ground of the old temple, a basilica
exists today.
Although it is a Roman Catholic basilica, the official name of the
church is the Basilica de Santa Maria Minerva. Really.

I am awed by the ways in which the Pantheon of Rome, is still
placated throughout the world, quite often by incidental methods.

And something else I've noticed.......

Ever look at the insignia on a needle threader? It is a lady with a
horsehair helmet, I'd bet money it's Minerva/Athena....she is the
Goddess of war, but also the Goddess of Crafts, and her presence is
quite appropriate on a needle threader.

Next time your are in a dollar store, have a peek :)

Once again, congratulations Patricia. All the best as you undertake
your new position.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo


Subject:	[novaroma] how long to be a member?/
From:	"charlotte98d" <charlotte98d@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 18:52:18 -0000

I'm not sure what to say or how to start out posting... I want to
impress everyone w/ my "Roman-ness" (lol) but to be honest, I have
only scratched the surface of the history of Rome, and there is a LOT
I have to learn, especially Latin, of which I know nothing.
I hope you will forgive my ignorance... it is hard to find time for
things when you are in college, especially one where you have to work
15 hours a week in addition to going to classes and studying.

I applied for citezenship a week ago, and still no word yet.... I am
worried, would they reject me? If they do, will they tell me? I am
getting really worried.

anyway, this group is perfect for me.
all I ever talk about is Rome, and Roman History. I have a hobby of
going through history books and encyclopedia's and marking them all
up and taking notes over them, also going online and printing off
pages and pages of outlines of Roman History.
I love Rome. I wish I would have been alive during the times of the
Romans.... this is a second chance for me to find people with whom I
belong.

If someone wants to reply to this, it's better to email me personally
at charlotte98@--------

I appreciate it!

Charlotte

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:51:46 -0800 (PST)

--- Ave Caius Puteus Germanicus,

Thank you for your dignified and diplomatic words.

I appreciate your efforts on behalf of Nova Roma.

In truth, I have not always been an icon of virtue on
the MainList. Thanks to the kind correction and
compassion of several Nova Romans (including those
Romans mentioned by Sokarus), I am learning to temper
my mail and attitude.

It is sometimes very easy to fall prey to errant ways
when there are some who display less than virtuous
characteristics on the MainList. I think many of us
could strive to set a better example of appropriate
communication on the ML, including myself.

I certainly appreciate Sokarus' efforts in the Religio
Romana. As most NR's know, I am a staunch supporter
of Religio and the Roman Pantheon. Indeed, sometimes
that over-zealousness and passion for Religio
expresses itself in surprising ways!

Thank you again for your kind and reasonable response.

You appear to be a citizen of virtuous character and
restraint. I pray that we citizens may all benefit
from your example.

Vale bene,
Maximina Octavia

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Change of address & e-mail
From:	"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:05:57 +0100

Ave Julilla,

My congrats on this fine piece of work! It's really worth a visit, dear friends!!

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Puteus Germanicus
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/

----- Original Message -----
From: Julilla Sempronia Magna
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 1:30 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Change of address & e-mail

AAfter a particularly detestable dies Lunae, I am pleased to make a
long story short and announce that I've taken the plunge and dot-
commed. My Villa can now and forever be found at
www.-------- My new e-mail is curatrix@--------

Julilla Sempronia Magna


Subject:	Re: Nova Roma archives Re: [novaroma] Public petition
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	05 Dec 2001 19:26:50 -0200

On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 12:22, g_popillius_laenas wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Instead of only making positive statements about the candidacy of
> Priscillia Vedia for Curator Sermonis, I now feel I must make some
> negative comments about Manius Villius.
>
> Please, if you do not know Manius Villius, take Censor Sulla's advice
> and read the archives. While Priscillia Vedia has done an
> outstanding job on this list, Manius Villius has continually caused
> conflict and disruption. He is already giving examples of how he
> would censor this list. Many may agree that our senior Consul's
> comments about Censor Sulla and Decius Iunius were unfortunate, but
> at least we were allowed to hear them. Manius Villius would have
> censored them.
>

Where did read thhis? I clearly stated that I am against all type
of censorship and specially previous censorship.
I declared that a post of this nature would be deferred to the praetors
in order to take the appropriate judical measures, and only that.

Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:51:37 -0800 (PST)

> Sokarus Apollonius Callias said:

And the last thing i
> needed was a comment
> from a moral crusader so back away. This is not your
> fight. Pick your
> own damn fights. My fight is right now with those
> three people, noy
> with you.
> >
>M.O.: If you attack Nova Roma citizens publicly, you
are, in fact, bringing the public into the fray. If
you don't want comments from citizens or to use the ML
as your own personal soap box, use private e-mail.

You say the last thing you need are comments from
moral crusaders. In fact, aren't you conducting your
own moral crusade? Who asked you to attack citizens
who never did anything to you over other peoples
disagreements? This makes you the crusader. Who
exactly are you crusading for? Did someone ask you to
crusade for them?

You do not cite specific facts and, therefore, lack
any credibility whatsoever. You simply have your own
private agenda and that is what drives you. Your
agenda is so weak that you have to stretch to using
other people's issues to make it look like you have a
legitimate beef. I think you want to pad your own
issues with theirs and have only served to make
yourself look foolish. Follow your own advice and
fight your own fights.

Twist issues as you will, you are only twisting in the
wind! Your lack of character has become plain for all
to see and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Vale, Maximina Octavia

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Main List Moderation
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:00:23 -0800 (PST)

Salvete,

I would like to join with Marcus Audens in his
continued support and endorsement of our current
moderation team.
I endorse and support them both and I pray that all
reasonable citizens will see that they are the most
logical choice for clear headed and fair moderation.
They have gracefully borne this difficult task with
true Roman Diginitas even when attacked.
Bravo! to these courageous and honest citizens!

Valete, Maximina Octavia

--- MarcusAudens@-------- wrote:
> Citizens of Nova Roma;

> Therefore, I support the work of the present
> Moderation Team, and would
> ask that you too support them with your votes for
> thier continuence, as
> well as your ongratulations for their excellent work
> to date,
> particularly in dealing with opinionated individuals
> who do not have a
> clear idea of the practical applications of thier
> desires for immediate
> chaos of this very valuable list.
>
> Respectfully;
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Priestess Patricia Cassia!
From:	MarcusAudens@--------
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:44:06 -0500 (EST)

My Dear;

My congratulations on your selection. I have some small idea of your
devotion to your beliefs from the few times that I have been available
at your offerings.

I extend my best wishes to you and yours, and hope that the blessings
that you recieve from your beliefs equal the efforts that you have
expended in the service of Nova Roma.

I have enjoyed immensely working with you as a fellow Magistrate and
Senator. And now that you go beyond the veil, I wsh you all the
happiness that there is, and all the fulfillment that you wish from your
new responsibilities.

My prayers go with you!!

Respectfully, and With the Greatest Hopes for your Happness and
Fulfillment;

Marcus Minucius Audens


Subject:	Nova Roma archives Re: [novaroma] Public petition
From:	"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@-------->
Date:	Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:49:28 -0000

>>Where did read thhis? I clearly stated that I am against all type
of censorship and specially previous censorship. I declared that a
post of this nature would be deferred to the praetors
in order to take the appropriate judical measures, and only that.

Manius Villius Limitanus<<

Salve Mani Villi,

I stand corrected. You did not say censor; you used the
word "reprehend". My apologies.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Renewed public petition
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:51:28 -0500

Salve,

>>I believe that Priscilla Vedia has good intent behind the censoring of
Limitanus.>>

Indeed it is Limitanus' own refusal to abide by List Policy that has caused
his moderation. This was not a situation *done* to him. It was his choice.

>>Although with this being your political opponent I feel as though you must
give Limitanus reasonable freedom to post up what he wants.>>'

Allow me to be very clear here. Every single post of his has been approved
throughout the election season. That will not change unless he attempts to
post a message which my Constitutional duty requires me to reject.

<snip>

>>It will be fair as he is your opponent, and would most likely show that
you are the person for the job, and *not* Limitanus.>>

I rather think my job to date proves that point pretty well. ;)

Seriously, though.......I will not shirk my duty or allow any individual to
abuse this List simply because they are my opponent. I would also remind
the List members that my most excellent scriba also views and approves posts
and she is of such impeccable moral character that even in the most unlikely
event that I *were* to try and reject a post by Limitanus due solely to his
opposition in this election, she would quickly and efficiently hand my head
to me. Thankfully that has never been the case and will not be going
forward.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
>
> Vale,
>
> "Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
> "Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother
> of virtues"
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Candidate for Aediles Curules
> Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
>
> Please visit my campaign website at:
> http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
>
> Canada Orientalis Website:
> www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:55:49 -0500

Salve.

>>My fight is right now with those three people, noy with you.>>

Hmmm. Sorry to disappoint you but I have no intention of "fighting" with
you.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena

> Vale optime
> Sokarus Apollonius Callias
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Endorsements of Candidacy
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:27:18 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Oppi.

--- Oppius Flaccus Severus <oppiusflaccus@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Tribunus Plebis
> =================
> Gnaeus Salix Astur. I began respecting him from the moment he joined
> and
> that respect
> has done nothing but increase during his tenure. A tireless worker
> and
> continual promoter
> of the Respublica and its interests -both internally and externally.
> He
> always has fresh
> perspective, good well-crafted ideas and an infectious sense of
> humour and
> enthusiasm.
> For me, he seems the natural choice to continue the top-notch legacy
> established by
> Tribune Labienus.

Thank you very much for your kind words, amice.

BTW, it is nice to hear from you again. Your sense of humour and your
cordiality have certainly been missed. How are your little boy and your
wife? I hope everyone is fine.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

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