| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Nerva Comes Home for a Visit |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:49:15 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave Nerva,
It is great to hear from you.
I could say something sappy like I am glad you are in
the military. Just knowing that you and others like
you are active allows me to sleep at night.
You may think what you are doing is insignificant and
maybe even boring, but it honestly means the world to
me.
If my taxes go to offer even an hour of comfort, a
good meal, or a decent hotel room then I am all for
it. You guys and gals deserve the perks as they are
often few and far between.
One of the hardest things in the military or anywhere
else for that matter is the waiting, watching vigil
and just being there. But, if it were not for people
like you, who would do this? It takes a special type
of person to do what you do. Here is a sappy thank
you and a big hug from me.
Vale from an Army brat,
Maximina Octavia
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] NovaRoma News Magazine? |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:50:03 -0500 |
|
Salve Gaius Noviodunus,
>G. Noviodunus Ferriculus at Gaius.Noviodunus@-------- wrote:
>
> Sorry if this was not clear, but of course I thought of a web ezine,
> unlike The Eagle, which is printed. And ideally, this ezine should be
> published weekly.
I see. Yes, this would be a good idea. I would design this if I was not
involved heavily with politics. I suggest you visit the Nova Roma Web Sites
list at yahoogroups.com/NovaRomaWebSites. Here you could discuss this idea
with web designers who could make this a reality.
> Hmmm well, voting doesn't mean you are not independent. And independent
> doesn't mean you have no opinion either. For me, politically involved
> means to be in charge of an officium, (senator, propraetor, consul
> etc...) What would you think if George W. Bush was the Director of CNN?
Are you telling me CNN has no political opinion? =) I can see your point.
Although, technically no publication is immune from political opinion. It
would probably be more neutral if we had people working on this from all
sides of the political spectrum. I hope this one day will be a reality, it
would definitely be a useful resource.
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Micronations/Romanitas. |
| From: |
"arloro1" <antoniuscorvusseptimius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 04:09:52 -0000 |
|
Salve Publicus Popoli Romani,
First, I would like to say that having governmental
discriptions of site moderators/members would come across as an intent
to be viewed as a micronation. But this really does not matter to me.
What matters is the continuance of expanding our goals into the real
world.And personally, I feel that our current appointed leaders here
in Nova Roma, should be focused on what we could do to make our
macronational friends aware that we are serious in our endeavors (and
I feel that a few do so). This does not constitute compromise as to
who we are for the purpose to make others happy. If one can not be
content with how things stand within the culture as a whole,leaving is
up to their discretion.Anything else is , and has been, taken as a
joke (at least by this Roman).
Of course, its all up to the individual on how far they
wish to take the expression of the Roman culture. I've seen many
levels of interest here in Nova Roma. And one doesnt make the other
more or less important.Lets keep an eye on the goal that Nova Roma has
promised itself.As we also discuss the factions within her virtual
walls.
Valete,
A. Corvus Septimius
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] re AVE ATQVE VALE! |
| From: |
QFabiusMaxmi@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 15 Dec 2001 23:24:05 EST |
|
In a message dated 12/15/01 5:05:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
hendrik.meuleman@-------- writes:
S. Apollonius Draco subscript
> Salve, O Praetor,
>
> > The problem as I see it, is that Apollonius wishes to have a Rome more to
> his personal liking.
>
> >> On a short note, so do you.
>>
Salve,
Oh come now. If you believe that, you do not know me too well. This Rome is
not even close to my liking. There are still too many modern elements
contained within. We are PC, something the ancient Romans would have
scorned, and research moves too slow on the religio for my liking. Of course
I am as guilty as anybody else here on that subject, books in the original
Latin or Greek are just too hard to come by, though I am trying to get them.
I feel this will be our most important contribution to our spiritual
heritage. But I don't go running off to find a more user friendly site, or
start one because things are not moving in the direction I want them to go.
>
> > Everytime he tries to do this, however, the "oligarchy" IHO blocks him in
> > some way. Eventually instead of working to meet the "oligarchy" in some
> half way point,> he instead resigns. After spending two years of his life
> in helping
> > developing Nova Roma he quits. How Roman is that?
> >
> Nova Roma does not hold, imvho, the definition of "Romanitas". That is each
> man's free choice.
>
When I say Roman, I mean the example of our spiritual ancestors. The Romans
we read about in Ploutarkhos, Dionysios, Polybios, the republic we know that
overcame many problems internal and external to become mistress of the
Mediterranean
> (snipped)
>
> > which would be a pure democracy. BUT that was not the way of Rome.
> > Are we trying to reconstruct Rome and the Roman way or are should we just
> be
> > taking the bits and pieces that we like, as Apollonius suggest we should
> do?
> > That is the real question that is before us, citizens.
> >
>
> True enough. The site mentions a recreation of culture and religion, and not
> politics, but it seems that many people have chosen it to interpret that
> way.
>
We had this argument many times in 1998. Should we recreate the cut throat
politics of a Republican campaign, or go with a kinder gentler campaign?
Interestingly the candidates themselves made that choice, and we have been
that way ever since.
> > His reasoning is that if Rome was indeed a democracy, he'd be further
> along in his political aspirations. Like most radicals he believes, there
> has to
> be reason why this has not happened. The Senate in its Oligarchy splendor
> has thwarted the democratic process and indirectly his chances. Now on the
> other hand if you citizens were the ones to vote for him, he'd be consul
> now.
> At least that was what he feels.
>
>
He was never a candidate for Consul. Besides, most of the high-ranking
> magistrates have centuries for themselves, which increases their impact in
> the voting process. If all those are opposed to one candidate, the other one
> will most likely win. If this was a one man / one vote system, your argument
> would be most correct, but alas, the situation is somewhat different here.
>
Well, Sextus Apollonius we will disagree about that. He wanted both
membership to the Senate and eventually the Consulship. He told me that in
so many words last year during the Praetor campaign. Nothing wrong with
that. Ambition is very Roman. However, he was going to have to compromise
something to gain what he wanted. Much like you have Sextus. After all you
did get your dispensation to stand for office. He was just unwilling to
compromise at all. I don't consider being silent on the main list
compromising, by the way.
> (snipped)
>
> > When our faction was facing defeat from the radicals last year NOT one of
> us
> > said we would resign from Nova Roma if they would win.
>
> Without wanting to rehash some issues here, it's unclear where the true
> radicals were at, and secondly, you weren't facing defeat.
We sure felt like we were. We were planning for long hard fights in the
Senate to get any thing done. However not one us ever thought of leaving.
We have too much honor and invested too much of our time in this sacred
endeavor
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Virtutes |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 15 Dec 2001 23:26:12 -0500 |
|
Salve Gnaeus Octavius,
> Gnaeus Octavius Noricus at cn.octavius.noricus@-------- wrote:
>
> These sentences fitted to something I was wondering about: Which are the most
> important Roman virtues we should put into practice in our daily lives (NR and
> non-NR)? I invite you to name the three virtues that seem most important to
> you. Maybe it's good to check http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/virtues.html
> before making up one's mind.
Excellent question, and a nice brake from the political bickering of the
last few weeks. I try to follow all the virtues in my daily life. No mortal
person can always follow the virtues. This would make you perfect. I do make
a good attempt though. =)
The question you ask is a hard one. I try to think of the virtues as equal
to each other. It takes a balance of them all to be a "full person". You
cannot just concentrate on two or three. Although, as hard as I try to think
of the virtues as equal I still have those that I find are my favourite.
They also tend to be those that I pay close attention to and oddly the
easiest for me to follow. Maybe this is why I find them my favourites...
1) Pietas is dedication to society, politically and religiously. I am
dedicated to my job, family (Roman and non-Roman), and religion. I feel as
though there is no point in taking part in something that you are not
dedicated to. If you are to take part in an institution you must be devoted
to it to make it worth your time.
2) Dignitas is having personal pride and self-worth. You must have Dignitas
to be able to respect others. How can you respect others when you cannot
respect yourself? If you have Dignitas it will be reflected in everything
you do.
3) Comitas is to be an open and friendly person. I try to be open and
friendly with all people I interact with. This is a virtue that can be
reflected back upon you. I find if you are open and friendly with people
they too are open and friendly with you. This can lead to new opportunities
for all, friendships, and an overall more enjoyable environment.
That's my favourite three. I hope others will contribute. It would be
interesting to see how others interpret the virtues we all hold close as
Nova Romans.
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Digest No 1751 Subject: AVE ATQVE VALE! |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 00:29:22 -0500 |
|
Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD
In the matter of the latest little spectacle of resignation by Formosanus,
The man is unable to consider any point of view other than his own as
'rational'.
It seems as thought anyone who disagrees with him is some form of
'Right-wing' neo'nazi bent on world domination. I wonder if the thought ever
occurred to him that people who disagree with him also have the same rights
and freedom to hold thoughts, opinions and ideals as he does?!
Many times since I have been a Citizen, Senator and Pontifex have I either
been witness to or been a principle party to disagreements, some of which
have been very serious. In none of those was there the level of accusations
of personal misdeeds or 'moral' misbehavior that Formosanus so easily
accuses those
with whom he disagrees of engaging. In particular Sulla and I had gone at
each other 'hammer and tong' in the past, yet we have worked together
closely for the past year. Both of us have had to make compromises or we
would have had a very bad year indeed. As noted in an earlier post there
have been disagreement with various Pontificies yet we all give each other
respect for our various views and as the first non-founder appointed to the
Senate I will give witness to numerous spirited disagreements over the years
within the Curia. Various issues were discussed in which past allies were
today's adversaries, but I cannot recall there ever being made the argument
that the opposition as a whole were somehow 'morally' deficient.
I often wondered at Formosanus' arrogance in his pontificating, lecturing
discourses. His heavy handed use of rhetoric and deliberately misstating of
facts is only overshadowed by his referring to his own opinions as "fact".
His egocentric vision of the world in which he alone is arbiter of what is
moral, right and just only reminds me of others who dominate the news
recently.
Any valid points Formosanus was able to make were completely overwhelmed by
his *style* and inability to compromise or perhaps even to admit
that the opposition had valid points, positions and opinions. His
hardheadedness completely dominated every issue he addressed, many were the
efforts by Sulla and others to seek reasonable solutions, but nothing short
of complete capitulation to his side was acceptable as seen now by, for the
second time this year, his "resignation". Does he believe that everyone
besides himself has had every issue decided as each one wanted? I know that
this has not been the case concerning my position on all issues, and I'm
fairly certain
that others have been disappointed in the results of various votes.
"Sometimes
peanuts, sometimes shells", "Sometimes cookies, sometimes crumbs",
"Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you", that's life, but
quitters never win.
Unlike some others who have responded to his posts, past and present, I'll
not give him backhanded complements. At best he is educated, but I do not
think he ever had good intentions here. He always had the posture of the
'professor' who would set us straight, as if we were all his students who
had never lived anywhere but a sheltered life at home.
The theme that comes to mind after reading the following is *Sour Grapes*
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:19:11 +0100
> From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
> Subject: AVE ATQVE VALE!
>
> M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilis Plebeius omnibus
> Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> Quirites, I come before you today close to two
> years after I first came to the list of Nova Roma
> to see what it might be. In the two years that followed I
> took an active part in building this Respublica,
> including the co-founding of two sodalitates (Latinitatis
> and Musarum) and being the principal drafter of their
> constitutions, and the campaign for justice to sexual and
> linguistic minorities and against the oligarchic
> concentration of power. I have also served as Aedilis
> Plebeius this year, during which term I
> co-sponsored games and successfully staged a provincial
> meeting in Venedia.
>
> I have come to the conclusion that the general
> battle for justice in Nova Roma will not be won by
> me or anyone else in the near term or with any reasonable
> expenditure of human energy. Some reasons for this are:
>
> 1) My candidacy for the governorship of Venedia was
> overwhelmingly turned down by the Senate despite the fact
> that the active provincials had unanimously endorsed me for
> the position and that I was the only legally qualified
> person in the province for the post. The only plausible
> reason supposable for this was the fact that the oligarchic
> party in the Senate wanted to settle personal scores and
> deny to an anti-oligarchist the chance of increasing his
> prestige or powerbase - even if a province had to suffer
> to accomplish those selfish and small-minded ends. I was
> willing to hold my nose and offer to work with the
> oligarchic party to the extent of proposing myself for the
> post - their unwillingness to work with
> someone of another political persuasion shows the naked
> partisanship of the conservatives in the Senate, and their
> fundamental unworthiness of such a position of trust.
>
> 2) L. Cornelius Sulla "Felix" stands every chance of
> becoming senior consul in the coming year. This
> person was the individual guilty of the outrages against
> kindness, fairness and normal non-discriminatory
> practice in his grossly unfair treatment of Marius
> Peregrinus (a transsexual who sought innocently and in
> good faith to have his name changed to match his "new"
> gender), including a great deal of personal
> nastiness behind the scenes that involved serious
> psychological abuse to this citizen in a completely
> unnecessary way. He is the one who divided the Respublica
> by his insistence on legislation to enshrine his
> discriminatory notions in our public law, an act completely
> useless and deeply repugnant to any ideals of iustitia we
> may have and against the non-discriminatory spirit and
> intent of the Constitution. This same Sulla conspired with
> other oligarchic factionists in the Senate to impose
> humiliating conditions on the normal return of Marius after
> his departure in protest though means of the most
> dubious legality and in violation of all natural equity.
>
> Additionally he acted in bad faith in the foundation of the
> Sodalitas Musarum against the agreement worked out by the
> founding committee, behaving in a manner consistent with
> his Senate-supremacist notions in a most personally
> treacherous way. He has also been accused of fixing the
> votes in elections - of which I have no certain proof, but
> which seems consonant with the general tenor of his
> character.
>
> That such a person should stand even the barest chance of
> not being exiled from Nova Roma, let alone having an
> excellent chance of winning its most powerful position
> shows the moral degradation here, a moral degradation that
> makes this an unfit place for decent people.
>
> 3) The xenophobic and chauvinistic law on Language Policy
> proposed by Consul Vedius to perpetuate the English
> linguistic imperialism of his wife is a travesty of policy
> making in which no one has had a chance to vote on a
> proposal guaranteeing linguistic freedom and equality and
> the voices urging such reasoned and moderate policies are
> being deliberately stifled - not least by Vedia's
> precensorship of her opposing candidate, Limitanus.
>
> These three decisive matters are made all the more hopeless
> and discouraging by the fact that all of our elections are
> distorted by the institutionalsed vote-rigging of our
> electoral system which gives the oligarchical faction and
> their cronies disproportionate voting power at the expense
> of elementary fairness and democracy.
>
> I am accordingly going to give up. I have sunk a great deal
> of my time - hours daily for long periods - into Nova Roma
> and have been unable to make it a minimally decent place.
>
> Accordingly:
>
> I. I hereby resign my office of Aedilis Plebeius, having
> carried out my duties faithfully in accordance with my oath
> of office.
>
> II. I hereby assign the position of paterfamilias of the
> Gens Apollonia to my filius Tiberius Apollonius
> Cicatrix.
>
> III. I hereby resign my citizenship in Nova Roma.
>
> I do not forget my Romanitas in taking these steps. I am
> leaving to devote my full energies to a more modest, sane
> and decent on-line Roman community, the Societas Via
> Romana, located at
> http://www.svr.unitron.com.pl/Viaromana/. It is democratic,
> respects human rights, and has a more active cultural and
> educational life than is currently the case in Nova Roma.
> And the atmosphere is *much* more harmonious and pleasant.
>
> Having roundly criticised Nova Roma above, I do want to say
> that there are many good candidates this time around, such
> as Limitanus, Pompeia, Diocletianus, the Apollonii, Maior,
> Salix Astur, Quintilianus, and Fortunatus. All decent
> people, and I wish them well. Maybe someday people of
> their stamp will overcome the oligarchic faction and make
> Nova Roma a place to be proud of. To do so I think the
> minimum steps would be:
>
> I. To make voting according to the different methods for
> the different comitia as close as technically possible to
> one man one vote. Basic democracy must not be sacrificed to
> inappropriate historicism or would-be social engineering to
> protect the already powerful.
>
> II. Legislating Tribunes. Some steps are being taken on
> this that are good - but it is important that
> Tribunes be able to legislate in their own assembly in a
> normal manner so as to provide a counterpoise
> to the legislative initiatives of the consuls.
>
> III. To establish clear and equitable laws for criminal and
> civil judgements which would protect the
> accused from the powerful, and a de facto bill of rights to
> protect minorities from the prejudiced and xenophobic.
>
> IV. To guarantee equality of language rights to the maximum
> feasible extent, and the true internationalisation of Nova
> Roman society and power holding.
>
> I urge all of the decent candidates who may be elected to
> consider the above points deeply - I respect all
> of you and some not mentioned, and only fear that your
> determination to curb the oligarchs and make
> fundamental changes in their despite might be weakened by
> an inappropriate desire to find a consensus
> with them. Resist that temptation.
>
> And to the oligarchic faction of the Senate I say this:
> Many of you were founders and builders of Nova
> Roma. It was a grand idea for which you deserve credit.
> Unfortunately, by your concern to hang onto a
> disproportionate share of power you have poisoned the
> atmosphere and political culture and distorted
> the institutions for unjust and ignoble ends. You have made
> this worse by your championing of a right-wing social
> agenda and American chauvinism that have driven away many
> good people and will drive away many more if you do not
> wake up to what you are doing.
>
> My personal friends in Nova Roma know who you are, and
> remain friends. I wish Nova Roma a just, free and
> democratic future with all my heart.
>
> Optime valete Quirites!
>
> Marcus Apollonius Formosanus (for the last time)
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] re: Propositio actionis rebus externus et internes |
| From: |
QFabiusMaxmi@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 04:06:23 EST |
|
In a message dated 12/15/01 4:08:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
puteus@-------- writes:
> As far as I know, any Roman civis has the right to a juridical procedure in
> which he is heard and able to defend him/herself. I understood that a nota
> is an action that a responsible magistrate can take against a civis for
> publically known acts in order to prevent this civis to do any more harm to
> the state than is already caused. I think this is a very good principle;
> but I doubt the right of civis to publically be heard by a court of law. I
> thus want to propose a court of justice being created under the presidence
> of the Praetores to which any Nova Roman can appeal when being troubled
> with an issue. The praetores will also be responsible of handling such
> actions as the prohibition to vote caused by a nota or the stripping off of
> the rights of any civis. In this court of law, the accusations will be
> formally expressed, the concerned civis / cives informed formally via email
> or any other means of contact, and the civis having a reasonable period of
> time to react to these. When all these elements are present, the praetores
> will conclude the issue by speaking justice in this court. As long as this
> verdict is unknown, the nota is a preliminary action or the stripping off
> of civil rights is not final. Once the verdict is known, it shall be
> communicated to the concerned cives as well as on the main list, so that
> the public is aware of the legal action taken.
>
>
Salvete.
Actually, if Sokas had requested a hearing, I would have granted him one. I
was very baffled by his response on the mainlist that fateful day. We had an
interesting discussion several days before about Italic and its Indo-European
origins. He had apologized to me personally. However by saying F-U to the
citizens in the forum he overstepped the boundsof propriety just a trifle. I
would be interested in seeing what drove him to this, however.
As for redress, this already is available. My colleague issued a edictum the
outlined the procedure in march. The only problem is for some reason it was
never put into the tabularium, by the curator. Nevertheless the edictum
stands and will stand until overturned. The only problem is the Iudex
overseeing the hearing is allowed too much leeway in leveling punishment. We
were to set up formulas for this, but we never did.
I had four citizens ask for redress this year. In investigations however, it
was discovered that not one complaint was warranted.
However, if the censor issues a Nota, the Praetores were powerless to stop
it. They can not veto it, all they could do is convince the Censor to
withdraw it. Now since our Censors were fair and just men I'm sure if we
asked them to do that very thing, they would.
But we have a citizen breaking the law in front 430 citizens which it makes
it very hard to that citizen to demand redress from the Censors. At any
rate, I would still have listened.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Virtutes |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 03:21:15 -0600 |
|
Salvete Cn Octavi omnesque
> These sentences fitted to something I was wondering about: Which
> are the most important Roman virtues we should put into practice
> in our daily lives (NR and non-NR)? I invite you to name the three
> virtues that seem most important to you.
Your three choices are quite good. I tend to agree with Amulius
Claudius that all of the virtues--those listed on the main site and
others--are of relatively equal importance, and that one should attempt
to embody all of them. Still, the exercise of choosing a few favorites
can be useful.
My choices:
1. Wisdom - primarily the ability to recognize the difference between
those things one can control and those that one cannot.
2. Justice - more than simply good governance and sensible laws, this
virtue compels us to treat others humanely and respectfully, recognizing
in them the same divine spark that resides within ourselves.
3. Courage - the ability to do what is right, regardless of adversity or
the cost to ourselves. It is the recognition that virtue is the
proper end to human life, our natural state in accord with the divine Logos.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
Quicquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Romanitas and history (was Re: [novaroma] re AVE ATQVE VALE!) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:11:19 +0100 |
|
Salve, Quinte Fabi,
> > > The problem as I see it, is that Apollonius wishes to have a Rome more
to
> > his personal liking.
> >
> > On a short note, so do you.
>
> Oh come now. If you believe that, you do not know me too well. This Rome
is
> not even close to my liking. There are still too many modern elements
> contained within. We are PC, something the ancient Romans would have
> scorned, and research moves too slow on the religio for my liking. Of
course
> I am as guilty as anybody else here on that subject, books in the original
> Latin or Greek are just too hard to come by, though I am trying to get
them.
> I feel this will be our most important contribution to our spiritual
> heritage. But I don't go running off to find a more user friendly site,
or
> start one because things are not moving in the direction I want them to
go.
>
Of course it is not to your liking, but the key word in your original
statement was "wishes", and that is what you wish, too. You "wish" a rebirth
of old Rome as exact and truthful as possible. You are simply coming closer
to fulfilling your wish than Formosanus did.
> When I say Roman, I mean the example of our spiritual ancestors. The
Romans
> we read about in Ploutarkhos, Dionysios, Polybios, the republic we know
that
> overcame many problems internal and external to become mistress of the
> Mediterranean
>
Again, there are a lot of examples. For one citizen, his example is Cato
Maior. For other people, it's Gaius Marius, and for a third person, this can
be the Gracchi brothers. Each of them are as Roman as the other, but some
will consider them more "Roman" as they lie more within their interpretation
of how ancient Rome really was, or should have been. Mind you, I am not
accusing you of blind interpretation, as you are well aware of historical
facts. I am merely saying that a spiritual definition cannot be defined in
an orthodox way, even when looking at historical sources.
> He was never a candidate for Consul. Besides, most of the high-ranking
> > magistrates have centuries for themselves, which increases their impact
in
> > the voting process. If all those are opposed to one candidate, the other
one
> > will most likely win. If this was a one man / one vote system, your
argument
> > would be most correct, but alas, the situation is somewhat different
here.
>
> Well, Sextus Apollonius we will disagree about that. He wanted both
> membership to the Senate and eventually the Consulship. He told me that
in
> so many words last year during the Praetor campaign. Nothing wrong with
> that. Ambition is very Roman. However, he was going to have to
compromise
> something to gain what he wanted. Much like you have Sextus. After all
you
> did get your dispensation to stand for office. He was just unwilling to
> compromise at all. I don't consider being silent on the main list
> compromising, by the way.
>
His intentions in the long run changed when he lost the race for Praetor
(well, he came third out of five candidates), I suppose.
> > Without wanting to rehash some issues here, it's unclear where the true
> > radicals were at, and secondly, you weren't facing defeat.
>
>
> We sure felt like we were. We were planning for long hard fights in the
> Senate to get any thing done. However not one us ever thought of leaving.
> We have too much honor and invested too much of our time in this sacred
> endeavor
>
The former Senatores among "our faction" were thinking exactly the same back
then. Strange :-).
Vale bene!
S. Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: Romanitas and history (was Re: [novaroma] re AVE ATQVE VALE!) |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:32:26 +0100 |
|
Salvete Draco et omnes!
Draco dixit:
"Each of them are as Roman as the other, but some
will consider them more "Roman" as they lie more within their interpretation
of how ancient Rome really was, or should have been."
Caius respondit:
Just one general question: what is the true mission of NR: an imitation or a truthful copy of how Rome really was during the republican age or how it should have been? The last statement can differ very much!!!
Just a thought! ;-)
Vale optime in pace deorum!
Caius Puteus Germanicus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/
----- Original Message -----
From: S. Apollonius Draco
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 11:11 AM
Subject: Romanitas and history (was Re: [novaroma] re AVE ATQVE VALE!)
Salve, Quinte Fabi,
> > > The problem as I see it, is that Apollonius wishes to have a Rome more
to
> > his personal liking.
> >
> > On a short note, so do you.
>
> Oh come now. If you believe that, you do not know me too well. This Rome
is
> not even close to my liking. There are still too many modern elements
> contained within. We are PC, something the ancient Romans would have
> scorned, and research moves too slow on the religio for my liking. Of
course
> I am as guilty as anybody else here on that subject, books in the original
> Latin or Greek are just too hard to come by, though I am trying to get
them.
> I feel this will be our most important contribution to our spiritual
> heritage. But I don't go running off to find a more user friendly site,
or
> start one because things are not moving in the direction I want them to
go.
>
Of course it is not to your liking, but the key word in your original
statement was "wishes", and that is what you wish, too. You "wish" a rebirth
of old Rome as exact and truthful as possible. You are simply coming closer
to fulfilling your wish than Formosanus did.
> When I say Roman, I mean the example of our spiritual ancestors. The
Romans
> we read about in Ploutarkhos, Dionysios, Polybios, the republic we know
that
> overcame many problems internal and external to become mistress of the
> Mediterranean
>
Again, there are a lot of examples. For one citizen, his example is Cato
Maior. For other people, it's Gaius Marius, and for a third person, this can
be the Gracchi brothers. Each of them are as Roman as the other, but some
will consider them more "Roman" as they lie more within their interpretation
of how ancient Rome really was, or should have been. Mind you, I am not
accusing you of blind interpretation, as you are well aware of historical
facts. I am merely saying that a spiritual definition cannot be defined in
an orthodox way, even when looking at historical sources.
> He was never a candidate for Consul. Besides, most of the high-ranking
> > magistrates have centuries for themselves, which increases their impact
in
> > the voting process. If all those are opposed to one candidate, the other
one
> > will most likely win. If this was a one man / one vote system, your
argument
> > would be most correct, but alas, the situation is somewhat different
here.
>
> Well, Sextus Apollonius we will disagree about that. He wanted both
> membership to the Senate and eventually the Consulship. He told me that
in
> so many words last year during the Praetor campaign. Nothing wrong with
> that. Ambition is very Roman. However, he was going to have to
compromise
> something to gain what he wanted. Much like you have Sextus. After all
you
> did get your dispensation to stand for office. He was just unwilling to
> compromise at all. I don't consider being silent on the main list
> compromising, by the way.
>
His intentions in the long run changed when he lost the race for Praetor
(well, he came third out of five candidates), I suppose.
> > Without wanting to rehash some issues here, it's unclear where the true
> > radicals were at, and secondly, you weren't facing defeat.
>
>
> We sure felt like we were. We were planning for long hard fights in the
> Senate to get any thing done. However not one us ever thought of leaving.
> We have too much honor and invested too much of our time in this sacred
> endeavor
>
The former Senatores among "our faction" were thinking exactly the same back
then. Strange :-).
Vale bene!
S. Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Let's panic! |
| From: |
"rapax@--------" <rapax@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:41:52 +0200 |
|
Salvete...
I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and I've seen many worthy
citizens left for many
different reasons.There is nothing strange with this.What I find
strange is the
messages given after their resignation saying that there is nothing
wrong with Nova
Roma,that the decision was theirs to make,that it was their faults that
drove them
away and finally (which is the one I' ve found as the most disturbing)
that there is no
need to panic!
If we don't panic..how can we stop these resignations?How can
we correct our
errors?Will we continue to watch and stay calm as many good people
leave NR?
So...I say, let's make a change for the future and.....
Let's all 'panic' a little!
Valete....
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
Civis Novae Romae
* Sapiens dominabitur astris ! *
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let's panic! |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:47:40 +0100 |
|
Ave Publie Sentie!
A very good change is the initiative of one civis to stress on the Roman virtutes again. It is something we all are supposed to agree on, but it is a good thing to recall them to our minds!! Have a nice weekend!
Vale optime in pace deorum!
Caius Puteus Germanicus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/
----- Original Message -----
From: rapax@--------
To: novaroma
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 12:41 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Let's panic!
Salvete...
I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and I've seen many worthy
citizens left for many
different reasons.There is nothing strange with this.What I find
strange is the
messages given after their resignation saying that there is nothing
wrong with Nova
Roma,that the decision was theirs to make,that it was their faults that
drove them
away and finally (which is the one I' ve found as the most disturbing)
that there is no
need to panic!
If we don't panic..how can we stop these resignations?How can
we correct our
errors?Will we continue to watch and stay calm as many good people
leave NR?
So...I say, let's make a change for the future and.....
Let's all 'panic' a little!
Valete....
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
Civis Novae Romae
* Sapiens dominabitur astris ! *
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let's panic! NO, Lets not Panic |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 04:00:20 -0800 |
|
Ave Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
I respectfully disagree. I shall not panic at this. Brady Moore took
the path of being a demogague. When you take that path there are two
alternatives. First, you are successful in your agenda and get the
People behind you. Second, you fail and alienate the People who you say
you are trying to save. Brady Moore accomplished the second option. He
would not be politic, he believed that this platform transcended
politics, therefore he was unwilling to compromise. On top of that,
when he had opponents to his transendental platform he viewed those
opponents as evil, fascist and naziesque. So, the alienation that
plagued Brady Moore was of his own creation. With that conclusion I
will not panic over his resignation nor the resignation of those
individuals who were converted to his indoctrination.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Candidate for Consul1
"rapax@--------" wrote:
>
> Salvete...
> I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and I've seen many worthy
>
> citizens left for many
> different reasons.There is nothing strange with this.What I find
> strange is the
> messages given after their resignation saying that there is
> nothing
> wrong with Nova
> Roma,that the decision was theirs to make,that it was their faults
> that
> drove them
> away and finally (which is the one I' ve found as the most
> disturbing)
> that there is no
> need to panic!
> If we don't panic..how can we stop these resignations?How
> can
> we correct our
> errors?Will we continue to watch and stay calm as many good people
>
> leave NR?
> So...I say, let's make a change for the future and.....
> Let's all 'panic' a little!
>
> Valete....
>
> Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
> Civis Novae Romae
>
> * Sapiens dominabitur astris ! *
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Attention Voters - Last Day |
| From: |
"Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:05:04 -0500 |
|
Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato novaromanis S.P.D.
This is the final day for voting. If you have not already done so, you still have today in order to vote. Go to
http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting and cast your votes today. The magistrates that we vote for in the big December elections are the people that will run our government. There are a lot of good people running in this election, and this is your opportunity to choose our leaders. Carefully check your Voter Code, (three letters followed by three numbers) or go to your profile page on the main Nova Roma website and get your code.
Remember, it is your right, and responsibility as a Nova Roman citizen to vote in these elections.
So vote now, today citizens, if you have not already done so.
Valete, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Attention Voters - Invalid Voter Codes, Part V |
| From: |
"Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:15:04 -0500 |
|
Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato novaromanis S.P.D.
Citizens with the following Tracking Numbers have used invalid Voter Codes:
Tracking Numbers: 7147, 5272, 5274.
If you have these Tracking Numbers, double check your Voter Code and try again. Your Voter Code consists of three letters, followed by three numbers. Anything else will definitely not work. Try to vote again, and if there is a problem contact the Censors at censors@-------- . You may get your Voter Code from your profile page on the main Nova Roma website. Today is the last day for voting in these most important elections. Please do not delay.
Valete, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] No, let's Not. (Was: Let's Panic!) |
| From: |
"cassius622" <cassius622@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:01:06 -0000 |
|
Salve,
An interesting post here motivated by the best of intention.
Hopefully these points can be approached clearly and thoughtfully.
--- In novaroma@--------, "rapax@s..." <rapax@s...> wrote:
> I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and I've seen many worthy
> citizens left for many different reasons.
Cassius:
As have we all. However, It is important not to forget the much, much
larger number of people who *join* Nova Roma each month, and who stay
here.
It is important to remember that ALL organizations have people join
and leave on a fairly regular basis. We do better than most - our
ratio of staying vs. leaving is better than 100 to ONE. People
leaving is certainly not a desirable thing, but we must recognize
that this is going to happen no matter what we do.
Rutilianus:
>There is nothing strange with this.What I find strange is the
messages given after their resignation saying that there is nothing
wrong with Nova Roma,
Cassius:
There are plenty of things 'wrong' with Nova Roma! There always have
been, and there always will be. We're only human, after all. I firmly
believe that there are far more RIGHT things with Nova Roma than
there are wrong. I also must point out that we get more
things 'right' all the time.
Nova Roma is in almost continual growth and change. We've corrected a
large amount of things that were inaccurate or unworkable when Nova
Roma was started, and that's something that will continue. We also
continue to expand our infrastructure so that the Citizens of Nova
Roma can have the most meaningful Roman experience possible.
Rutilianus:
that the decision was theirs to make,that it was their faults that
> drove them away and finally (which is the one I' ve found as the
most disturbing) that there is no need to panic!
Cassius:
People have chosen to leave over a *wide* variety of reasons. Some
are simply through mistakes or unfortunate circumstances (such as
someone taking offense at something on the main list, and choosing to
hold all of Nova Roma responsible for the words of one other
Citizen.)
Some folks have left us because they were indeed in error. The most
common error has been folks joining before they've read the website,
and discovering that they don't really want to be part of an
organization that includes ancient religion, or politics, or
whatever. That's a situation Nova Roma will probably never be able to
eliminate completely.
And, of course, sometimes Nova Roma itself has been at fault. While
I'm happy to say that this is the *least* common reason why anyone
has left us - it has happened. Usually the problems are "short term"
things that don't get repaired quickly enough - people forgetting to
be polite on the main list, or not taking the time to understand
someone, or a disagreement between a magistrate and a Citizen that
doesn't get mediated. We can certainly learn from mistakes and work
to do better in the future... but that is something that takes good
deliberate action - not panic. ;)
Rutilianus:
> If we don't panic..how can we stop these resignations?How can
> we correct our errors?Will we continue to watch and stay calm as
many good people leave NR?
Cassius:
We *can't* stop resignations. No organization anyone in the world
ever has, and we won't be able to either. That doesn't mean that we
shouldn't work to improve things of course.
It seems to me there are several positive steps we might take:
1. Since we have a *lot* of New Citizens continually coming in, we
really should treat this as one of our most valuable resources. There
is probably more that can be done to make new folks feel welcome, to
inform them of all the things NR has to offer, and to help them solve
any problems should they arise.
2. There may well be some improvements that can be made to the
overall "living environment" in Nova Roma. Keeping the various
Sodalitas groups active and public so that there are a lot of things
to do, working to keep our main list a pleasant place to be, and
making sure there is a wide variety of discussion on ALL Roman
subjects would certainly be things we all could participate in.
3. We might want to get better information on why people leave, so
that we understand the phenomenon better. Perhaps the Censors could
even email a short "Resignation Questionnaire" to folks who go, in
the hopes that some might actually fill it out. Such information
might well help us to make changes in the future.
No matter what we do, we should work to do it in a positive,
decisive, and efficient manner. Panic doesn't lend itself well to any
of those approaches. ;)
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Edictum Propraetoricium XXXIV about the dismissal of Legatus |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:15:22 +0100 |
|
Ex Officio Propraetoris Thulae
Edictum Propraetoricium XXXIV about the dismissal of Legatus Regionis
Danicae Honorable Titus Curius Dannicus
It is with great sadness I, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, am forced to, on his
own request, dismiss one member of my Cohors Propraetoris (The
Propraetorian Staff, Provincial Governament)!
I. Hereby I publicly and officially dismiss Honorable Titus Curius
Dannicus as Legatus Regionis Danicae and Praefectus Sermonis Thules on his
own request. Honorable Titus Curius Dannicus hasn't, for a longer period,
had time with his duties in Provincia Thule. He has now asked to be
released from all his duties. I grant this with a feeling of sadness, as he
also have talked about leaving Nova Roma. All this because of lack of time.
I wish You, Honorable Titus Curius Dannicus, the best of Luck and hope that
You will stay as a citizen!
II. This edictum becomes effective immediately.
Given December 16th, in the year of the consulship of Flavius Vedius
Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus, 2754 AUC.
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let's panic! |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:36:58 -0500 |
|
Salve Publius Sentius,
>Publius Sentius at rapax@-------- wrote:
>
> Salvete...
> I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and I've seen many worthy
> citizens left for many
> different reasons.There is nothing strange with this.What I find
> strange is the
> messages given after their resignation saying that there is nothing
> wrong with Nova
> Roma,that the decision was theirs to make,that it was their faults that
> drove them
> away and finally (which is the one I' ve found as the most disturbing)
> that there is no
> need to panic!
> If we don't panic..how can we stop these resignations?
Are you implying panic will help a situation like this?! Panic can lead to
rash decisions that are NOT good for the well being of this res publica.
Panic rarely solves anything, and this situation is no different.
There is no need to panic. This is not a sudden disaster for this nation.
Since I came here I have seen much worse. This trend actually seems to rise
and fall continually over a period of three months or so. It's unfortunate
but it's not an emergency.
If we where to get land and become a real world nation we would still have
resignations. It's normal. We cannot stop resignations, we can only see how
we can make then less frequent. Resignations like Formosanus will always
take place. The resignations we should try to cut down on are those done
because of "lack of time". Those that resign citizenship just because they
cannot visit very often never really were dedicated to Nova Roma.
Citizenship to a nation is not something you give up because of "lack of
time".
>How can
> we correct our
> errors?
We could start by not having a mass panic. =)
>Will we continue to watch and stay calm as many good people
> leave NR?
Yes. The majority that resign never where devoted to our cause. They had
other more personal agendas.
> So...I say, let's make a change for the future and.....
> Let's all 'panic' a little!
I say this would be very short sighted. By staying calm we are much more
likely to come to a better, more long term solution.
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] No, let's Not. (Was: Let's Panic!) |
| From: |
AntoniaCorneliaOctavia <europamoon7@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:12:32 -0800 (PST) |
|
--- cassius622 <cassius622@--------> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> An interesting post here motivated by the best of
> intention.
> Hopefully these points can be approached clearly and
> thoughtfully.
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "rapax@s..." <rapax@s...>
> wrote:
> > I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and I've seen
> many worthy
> > citizens left for many different reasons.
>
> Cassius:
> As have we all. However, It is important not to
> forget the much, much
> larger number of people who *join* Nova Roma each
> month, and who stay
> here.
>
> It is important to remember that ALL organizations
> have people join
> and leave on a fairly regular basis. We do better
> than most - our
> ratio of staying vs. leaving is better than 100 to
> ONE. People
> leaving is certainly not a desirable thing, but we
> must recognize
> that this is going to happen no matter what we do.
>
>
> Rutilianus:
> >There is nothing strange with this.What I find
> strange is the
> messages given after their resignation saying that
> there is nothing
> wrong with Nova Roma,
>
> Cassius:
> There are plenty of things 'wrong' with Nova Roma!
> There always have
> been, and there always will be. We're only human,
> after all. I firmly
> believe that there are far more RIGHT things with
> Nova Roma than
> there are wrong. I also must point out that we get
> more
> things 'right' all the time.
>
> Nova Roma is in almost continual growth and change.
> We've corrected a
> large amount of things that were inaccurate or
> unworkable when Nova
> Roma was started, and that's something that will
> continue. We also
> continue to expand our infrastructure so that the
> Citizens of Nova
> Roma can have the most meaningful Roman experience
> possible.
>
>
> Rutilianus:
> that the decision was theirs to make,that it was
> their faults that
> > drove them away and finally (which is the one I'
> ve found as the
> most disturbing) that there is no need to panic!
>
> Cassius:
> People have chosen to leave over a *wide* variety of
> reasons. Some
> are simply through mistakes or unfortunate
> circumstances (such as
> someone taking offense at something on the main
> list, and choosing to
> hold all of Nova Roma responsible for the words of
> one other
> Citizen.)
>
> Some folks have left us because they were indeed in
> error. The most
> common error has been folks joining before they've
> read the website,
> and discovering that they don't really want to be
> part of an
> organization that includes ancient religion, or
> politics, or
> whatever. That's a situation Nova Roma will probably
> never be able to
> eliminate completely.
>
> And, of course, sometimes Nova Roma itself has been
> at fault. While
> I'm happy to say that this is the *least* common
> reason why anyone
> has left us - it has happened. Usually the problems
> are "short term"
> things that don't get repaired quickly enough -
> people forgetting to
> be polite on the main list, or not taking the time
> to understand
> someone, or a disagreement between a magistrate and
> a Citizen that
> doesn't get mediated. We can certainly learn from
> mistakes and work
> to do better in the future... but that is something
> that takes good
> deliberate action - not panic. ;)
>
>
> Rutilianus:
> > If we don't panic..how can we stop these
> resignations?How can
> > we correct our errors?Will we continue to watch
> and stay calm as
> many good people leave NR?
>
> Cassius:
> We *can't* stop resignations. No organization anyone
> in the world
> ever has, and we won't be able to either. That
> doesn't mean that we
> shouldn't work to improve things of course.
>
> It seems to me there are several positive steps we
> might take:
>
> 1. Since we have a *lot* of New Citizens continually
> coming in, we
> really should treat this as one of our most valuable
> resources. There
> is probably more that can be done to make new folks
> feel welcome, to
> inform them of all the things NR has to offer, and
> to help them solve
> any problems should they arise.
>
> 2. There may well be some improvements that can be
> made to the
> overall "living environment" in Nova Roma. Keeping
> the various
> Sodalitas groups active and public so that there are
> a lot of things
> to do, working to keep our main list a pleasant
> place to be, and
> making sure there is a wide variety of discussion on
> ALL Roman
> subjects would certainly be things we all could
> participate in.
>
> 3. We might want to get better information on why
> people leave, so
> that we understand the phenomenon better. Perhaps
> the Censors could
> even email a short "Resignation Questionnaire" to
> folks who go, in
> the hopes that some might actually fill it out. Such
> information
> might well help us to make changes in the future.
>
> No matter what we do, we should work to do it in a
> positive,
> decisive, and efficient manner. Panic doesn't lend
> itself well to any
> of those approaches. ;)
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Consul
Salve,
Perhaps it would be to our best interest to have a
list specifically for New Citizens. There they would
be free to ask questions or simply feel more
comfortable conversing with other new cives. Just a
thought.
Vale,
Antonia Cornelia Octavia
Scriba Propraetoris di California
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] programming |
| From: |
AntoniaCorneliaOctavia <europamoon7@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:06:43 -0800 (PST) |
|
Avete,
Just wanted to let all of you know that next Saturday,
Dec. 22, The History Channel will be airing 8 hours of
programs on ancient Rome. PST starts 12:00 noon and
ends 8:00 p.m. So get out the popcorn and set your
vcrs for a Roman boob tube fest.
Valete,
Antonia Cornelia Octavia
Scriba Propraetoris di California
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:49:15 +0100 |
|
G. NOVIODVNVS FERRICVLVS OMNIBVS QVIRITIBVS S.D.
Just a short introduction. I posted on this list that I thought an
independent e-zine was a good thing to have, especially for those who
don't really have the time to crawl through the main list. I did not get
a lot of answers yet, but I think a little demo could be a good thing.
So basically, I am creating the number 0 of an independent E-Zine, in
which I want to talk of major things happening in Nova Roma. I hope to
gather more reporters, as soon as they see what can be done. I won't be
able to do this work alone, so if you don't want this project stop at
number 0, then please contact me.
The link to the number 0 will follow at a later stage. I'd be glad to
get feedback also from the provinces, if they have any important event
to report.
Thanks for your support
Valete Bene
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] A Special Day for Cornelia |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:49:48 -0000 |
|
Salvete!
Today is a special day for gens Cornelia et alii.
We are celebrating (in spirit) the birthday of gens Matrona
Prima Cornelia Pulchra.
Happy Birthday Prima, and many blessings today and in the future.
!!!!! :)
Pompeia Cornelia
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:03:46 -0500 |
|
Salvete Gaius Noviodunus et cives,
>G. Noviodunus Ferriculus at Gaius.Noviodunus@-------- wrote:
>
> So basically, I am creating the number 0 of an independent E-Zine, in
> which I want to talk of major things happening in Nova Roma. I hope to
> gather more reporters, as soon as they see what can be done. I won't be
> able to do this work alone, so if you don't want this project stop at
> number 0, then please contact me.
I offer you any help I could provide. I am a professional web designer, if
you need help on designing the site I am here. If you would like someone who
could write reports etc., I could do that too.
I also encourage citizens to get involved in this project. If we could get
this going it would do a great service to Nova Roma. It would be a shame if
this did not work out because of lack of participants.
Valete,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] SATURNALIA! :) |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:40:26 EST |
|
Salvete Omnes,
The Saturnalia begins tomorrow, Monday 12/7 and goes until Sunday the 23rd.
This is the most popular of Roman festivals, a time for rest and merrymaking!
Two quotes about the Saturnalia:
"when they celebrate the day they joyfully hold feasts throughout the
countryside and towns, and each man waits upon his own slaves."
- the Latin poet Accius (170 BC)
"Time shall not destroy that holy day, so long as the hills of Latinum endure
and father Tiber, while your city of Rome and Capitol remain."
-Statius
The Saturnalia began at the Temple of Saturn in Rome itself with a sacrifice
at which Senators and Knights wore their togas. Throughout the Roman world it
was a time of general jollity, with public celebrations and gambling allowed
in the streets. In the home it was a time when all was relaxed, and masters
waited on their servants and treated them as equals.
Here is a page where Nova Roma Citizens have described past celebrations of
the Saturnalia:
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/saturnalia.html
This year, I will be doing a public ritual to Saturnus, and will post the
text in the hopes that other Citizens will join me. :)
I'll also be in the live Nova Roma chat from 7 to 8 EST, if anyone is
interested in discussing the ritual and/or other preparations and
celebrations of the Saturnalia.
Io Saturnalia! :)
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] No, let's Not. (Was: Let's Panic!) |
| From: |
Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:49:36 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave,
Now my question is this: Everytime a new problem
comes up or a string is created that some don't wanna
talk about why is it they same old new solution: lets
create a new list? That is doing nothing more than
dodging the issue, throwing it on the back burner, or
isolating it from everything else.
vale,
Quintus Cornelius Caesar
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] PUBLIC SATURNALIA RITE |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:53:50 EST |
|
Salvete Omnes,
As a Pontifex of Nova Roma I will be performing this public offering to
Saturnus on Monday, Dec. 17th, the opening day of Saturnalia. I invite the
Priesthood and Citizens of Nova Roma to join me as well. (The rite may be
done during the day or in the evening, I will probably do my ritual upon
returning home from work.)
I'll post about the rite after completing it, and hopefully others can also!
:)
(Note: If you would like to perform this rite but cannot do so on the opening
day of Saturnalia, it can also be done any time until midnight on December
23rd.)
********************************
A Saturnalia Offering to Saturnus
An offering of grain or a cake to Saturnus at the Saturnalia.
Items needed:
Wine - (A thick red wine to be poured into the patera (offering dish) at the
household Lararium.)
Incense - (Frankinsense or Myrrh to be burned in the turibulum (incense
burner) at the household Lararium.)
Cake - (A heavy grain cake, to be offered at the home Lararium and then
buried in the earth.)
Optional- An image of Saturnus for the altar, perhaps downloaded and printed
from:
http://www.mithraeum.org/Saturn.jpg
or
http://www.mbradtke.de/g-saturnus.htm
*********************************
PRAEFATIO
(starting the ritual with offerings of incense and wine to Ianus and
Iuppiter)
With head veiled, make the following offerings:
I. Offering of incense to Ianus:
“Iano pater, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies volens
propitius mihi liberisque meis domo familiaeque meae.â€
“Father Ianus, in offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so that
you may be propitious to me and my children, to my house and to my household.â€
(Place incense on the coals of the Turibulum)
II. Offering of insense to Iuppiter:
“Iuppiter, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies volens
propitius mihi liberisque meis domo familiaeque meae.â€
“Iuppiter, in offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so that you
may be propitious to me and my children, to my house and to my household.â€
(Place Incense on the coals of the Turibulum)
III. Offering of Incense to Iuno:
"Iuno mater, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies volens
propitius mihi liberisque meis domo familiaeque meae.â€
"Mother Iuno, in offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so that
you may be propitious to me and my children, to my house and to my household.â€
IV. Offering of wine to Ianus:
"Iano pater, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum, eiusdem
rei ergo macte vino inferio esto."
"Father Janus, as in offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well
prayed, for the sake of this be honoured by this wine offered in libation."
(wine is poured into the Patera)
V. Offering of wine to Iuppiter:
"Iuppiter macte isto ture esto, macte vino inferio esto."
"Iuppiter, be honoured by that incense, be honoured by this wine offered in
libation."
(wine is poured into the patera)
VI. Offering of Wine to Iuno
"Iuno macte isto ture esto, macte vino inferio esto."
"Iuno, be honoured by that incense, be honoured by this wine offered in
libation."
PRECATIO
(The Sacrifice to Saturnus)
(The participant uncovers the head, washes their hands in a small vessel, and
then begins the sacrifice of grain)
"Saturno pater, quod tibi fieri oportet in domo familia mea frumentaria
dapi, eius rei ergo macte hac illace dape pollucenda esto."
"Father Saturnus, because it is proper for grain to be given to you in the
house of my family for the sacred feast, for the sake of this thing may you
be honoured by this feast offering."
At this point, one may add personal prayers to Saturn, both in thanks for the
blessings of the past year (personally and within Nova Roma) and also ask for
blessings in the coming year.
After personal blessings are said, end the prayers before the altar by
saying:
"IO SATURNALIA!"
Leave the cake for Saturnus at the altar for a few minutes, then take the
cake and bury it outside (this is the way to make traditional offering to
Saturnus as a cthonic deity.) If you wish to say a few words to the effect
that the offering is being buried as an honor for Saturnus as you do so, this
is fine.
You may wish to leave the Lucerna (sacred lamp) burning at the Lararium altar
for a time after the rite. If you have a celebratory evening meal in honor of
Saturnalia, it is of course highly appropriate to leave a portion at the
altar for the Lares and Penates.
IO SATURNALIA! :)
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Romanitas and history (was Re: [novaroma] re AVE ATQVE VALE!) |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:56:25 -0600 |
|
Salvete
> Just one general question: what is the true mission of NR: an imitation or a
> truthful copy of how Rome really was during the republican age or how it should
> have been? The last statement can differ very much!!!
Yes, it can. Our Web site states that "NOVA ROMA is more than a
historical recreation society, although we are that. We are more than a
pagan religious organization, although we are that, too. We are more
than a classical studies group, but that falls within our purview as
well. We are nothing less than a sovereign nation; an attempt to
re-create the best of classical pagan Rome (with a few compromises to
modern times)..."
I expect that each of us has a different interpretation of exactly what
the "best of classical pagan Rome" actually was, and of what compromises
ought to be made to modernity.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
Quicquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 14:03:40 EST |
|
Quintus Cornelius Caesar writes:
>Now my question is this: Everytime a new problem
comes up or a string is created that some don't wanna
talk about why is it they same old new solution: lets
create a new list? That is doing nothing more than
dodging the issue, throwing it on the back burner, or
isolating it from everything else.
Salve,
Antonia Cornelia Octavia suggested a new list in direct response to three
suggestions of some things we might do to help reduce the number of people
leaving Nova Roma in the future:
1. Work with new Citizens to help them learn about Nova Roma and become used
to the Roman community;
2. To work together to make the 'environment' of Nova Roma more pleasant (by
keeping the list respectful and making sure there are positive things for
Citizens to be involved in);
3. To get more information about why some people leave, so that common issues
might be better addressed.
The first suggestion does kind of call for more communication with new
Citizens, so the suggestion wasn't out of place by any means. :)
I'm sure there could also be other ways of getting to know new Citizens
better. Perhaps the Censors could encourage new Citizens to introduce
themselves on the main list, or possibly ask for permission to send an
automatic message introducing them? Not all new Citizens are looking for a
whole lot of contact all at once, but many are. There certainly should be a
way for Citizens to know when someone has newly arrived among us... :)
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Oath as Lictor |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 14:08:53 -0500 |
|
I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson) do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.
I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson) swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear
never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State
Religion.
I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson) swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.
I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson) further swear to
fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Lictor
to the best of my abilities.
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Lictor and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
Vale optime in pace deorum!
Helena Galeria
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: No, let's Not. (Was: Let's Panic!) |
| From: |
"otto_von_sitter" <otto_von_sitter@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:52:07 -0000 |
|
I think the reason we even have to think about making a new list is
because there are those that do not put certain issues behind them.
There comes a time when a topic becomes so charged with anger that it
is better to simply drop the topic and move on. As I remember, the
last time this happened and there were numerous attempts to change
topics and even outright demands to drop the issue, the ones that
continued the issue refused to give it up. They didn't even stop
when a list was created. As for creating new lists to solve these
problems, I think it is the best solution out there. We cannot
simply forbade a certain topic from discussion. By creating a new
list, people can fight it out until they finally cool off, that way
it doesn't clutter up the main list, which gets enough posts per day
as it is. I know from experience that heated topics can cool off
much better in separate lists than in the main list. When things
finally started to get constructive in the NR Land Project list,
people stopped posting. I think I must be the only one that still
checks the list just in case someone has something constructive to
add so we can get land some day.
Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
--- In novaroma@--------, Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> wrote:
> Ave,
> Now my question is this: Everytime a new problem
> comes up or a string is created that some don't wanna
> talk about why is it they same old new solution: lets
> create a new list? That is doing nothing more than
> dodging the issue, throwing it on the back burner, or
> isolating it from everything else.
> vale,
> Quintus Cornelius Caesar
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let's panic! |
| From: |
"rapax@--------" <rapax@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:09:25 +0200 |
|
Salve Amulius Claudius...
>Are you implying panic will help a situation like this?! Panic can lead to
>rash decisions that are NOT good for the well being of this res publica.
>Panic rarely solves anything, and this situation is no different.
>
>There is no need to panic. This is not a sudden disaster for this nation.
>Since I came here I have seen much worse. This trend actually seems to rise
>and fall continually over a period of three months or so. It's unfortunate
>but it's not an emergency.
> Dexion : Just the kind of thought which I believe is not very
> productive.Saying
'I'm sorry but life goes on!' solves nothing.If life goes on with
the same errors!
>If we where to get land and become a real world nation we would still have
>resignations. It's normal. We cannot stop resignations, we can only see how
>we can make then less frequent. Resignations like Formosanus will always
>take place. The resignations we should try to cut down on are those done
>because of "lack of time". Those that resign citizenship just because they
>cannot visit very often never really were dedicated to Nova Roma.
>Citizenship to a nation is not something you give up because of "lack of
>time".
Dexion : Excuse me but in my opinion resignations like
Formosanus' and all of
the similar ones were more important than those occured because of
lack of time or
loss of interest etc.For they were all active cives who tried to
work for NR.Some may
agree or disagree with their opinions but this doesn't change the
fact that they
'tried'.I'm not talking about any specific cive here I'm giving the
name of this
ex-cive because you named him.
> >How can
> > we correct our
> > errors?
>
>We could start by not having a mass panic. =)
Dexion : In fact I still believe that a well-organized panic
would be a good start of
finding the errors and better ourselves.You can't create harmony
without
creating a chaos first.
> >Will we continue to watch and stay calm as many good people
> > leave NR?
>
>Yes. The majority that resign never where devoted to our cause. They had
>other more personal agendas.
Dexion : If so I haven't noticed this in their posts...Am I
just dumb and missing
the point here ? :))Maybe you can provide some clear proof
about their
personal aims?I'd be appreciated!
> > So...I say, let's make a change for the future and.....
> > Let's all 'panic' a little!
>
>I say this would be very short sighted. By staying calm we are much more
>likely to come to a better, more long term solution.
> Dexion : We were calm in the past and we are calm now!And I'm
> afraid if we
will be calm in the future we will continue to lose more
citizens.We may agree
or disagree with them but I believe we need ' every' citizen
here to enrich
our vision.We need different views,oppositions and even
civilized fights :)
to improve NR as well as ourselves as human beings.Am I in
error thinking so?
Vale bene
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
>Vale,
>
>"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
>"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
>
>--
>Amulius Claudius Petrus
>Candidate for Aediles Curules
>Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
>Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
>Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
>Canada Orientalis Provincia
>
>Please visit my campaign website at:
>http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
>
>Canada Orientalis Website:
>www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
>
>Gens Claudia Website:
>www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
>--
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let's panic! NO, Lets not Panic |
| From: |
"rapax@--------" <rapax@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:05:24 +0200 |
|
Salve noble censor...
I haven't given any specific name in my post.I was talking about
the general
situation.But since you've mentioned him I can say that I used to
enjoy reading his
posts and not because I agreed with his views but because his views
were different
than the majority.Now,I don't know if this makes me a bad character in NR!
The resignation of every citizen is a thing I find as a loss for
Nova Roma.
Regardless of their opinions or views, for I believe everyone has
something to offer to
us.Now,if a little panic can prevent this by causing us to search our
faults (if there is
any) I'm for it!
I believe different opinions- no matter how weird they may seem-
can have the
good effect of enlarging our minds.Though sometimes can have the bad
effect of
causing a terrible headache too!
Vale bene...
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
>Ave Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
>
>I respectfully disagree. I shall not panic at this. Brady Moore took
>the path of being a demogague. When you take that path there are two
>alternatives. First, you are successful in your agenda and get the
>People behind you. Second, you fail and alienate the People who you say
>you are trying to save. Brady Moore accomplished the second option. He
>would not be politic, he believed that this platform transcended
>politics, therefore he was unwilling to compromise. On top of that,
>when he had opponents to his transendental platform he viewed those
>opponents as evil, fascist and naziesque. So, the alienation that
>plagued Brady Moore was of his own creation. With that conclusion I
>will not panic over his resignation nor the resignation of those
>individuals who were converted to his indoctrination.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>Candidate for Consul1
>
>"rapax@--------" wrote:
> >
> > Salvete...
> > I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and I've seen many worthy
> >
> > citizens left for many
> > different reasons.There is nothing strange with this.What I find
> > strange is the
> > messages given after their resignation saying that there is
> > nothing
> > wrong with Nova
> > Roma,that the decision was theirs to make,that it was their faults
> > that
> > drove them
> > away and finally (which is the one I' ve found as the most
> > disturbing)
> > that there is no
> > need to panic!
> > If we don't panic..how can we stop these resignations?How
> > can
> > we correct our
> > errors?Will we continue to watch and stay calm as many good people
> >
> > leave NR?
> > So...I say, let's make a change for the future and.....
> > Let's all 'panic' a little!
> >
> > Valete....
> >
> > Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
> > Civis Novae Romae
> >
> > * Sapiens dominabitur astris ! *
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:21:08 -0000 |
|
---Salvete Omnes:
Actually, the new citizen initiatives were discussed at length last
year, and I am happy Antonia et alii have brought them up again.
Some positive steps were the outcome of these discussions:
The main website has a section of information for new citizens
and....
Consul Germanicus set up a website for those who could check in to
find out what Sodalitates they could join. (don't have the url handy)
One initiative, however, that was started last year, but was never
brought to fruition, was an *Introductory/Welcome* letter to each new
citizen, which would serve as a *welcome aboard*, but also as a means
of directing new civites to what areas of the website to check out
ie,the message board, the chatroom, religio information, pertinent
webpages, such as that Consul Germanicus prepared.
Frankly, I would like to such an introductory memo to new citizens put
in place so people know straightaway what's available and where to
begin....they will never feel left out of things, and they can quickly
become active members of the community.
Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
In novaroma@--------, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Quintus Cornelius Caesar writes:
>
> >Now my question is this: Everytime a new problem
> comes up or a string is created that some don't wanna
> talk about why is it they same old new solution: lets
> create a new list? That is doing nothing more than
> dodging the issue, throwing it on the back burner, or
> isolating it from everything else.
>
> Salve,
>
> Antonia Cornelia Octavia suggested a new list in direct response to
three
> suggestions of some things we might do to help reduce the number of
people
> leaving Nova Roma in the future:
>
> 1. Work with new Citizens to help them learn about Nova Roma and
become used
> to the Roman community;
>
> 2. To work together to make the 'environment' of Nova Roma more
pleasant (by
> keeping the list respectful and making sure there are positive
things for
> Citizens to be involved in);
>
> 3. To get more information about why some people leave, so that
common issues
> might be better addressed.
>
> The first suggestion does kind of call for more communication with
new
> Citizens, so the suggestion wasn't out of place by any means. :)
>
> I'm sure there could also be other ways of getting to know new
Citizens
> better. Perhaps the Censors could encourage new Citizens to
introduce
> themselves on the main list, or possibly ask for permission to send
an
> automatic message introducing them? Not all new Citizens are looking
for a
> whole lot of contact all at once, but many are. There certainly
should be a
> way for Citizens to know when someone has newly arrived among us...
:)
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: No, let's Not. (Was: Let's Panic!) |
| From: |
Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:23:25 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave,
Creating a new list is hardly a solution but
rather a means of throwing an issue on the back
burner. If it is evident that a majority on this list
do not want to continue the topic of discussion then
it should be dropped. Not thrown on a seperate list
because that is nothing more than a waste of space.
Or there is another simple solution DELETE THE POST!
A couple weeks ago when the topic of nationalism and
list moderation was being debated I got sick of
reading of it because it ran dry and that it got to
the point where those discussing were rehashing the
same old opinions and repackaging them so to say. So
either have the issue removed or delete. It is not
like checking a box and clicking the delete function
of your e-mail provider is that much of an
inconvenience or requires that much of an exertion of
energy.
In regards to what you said of the NRLandProject
list people had always offered valuable opinions and
information. Just because you don't feel that they
have any quality to them does not make you right.
After all you are not God (not meant to come across as
patronization) so your word is not the word of God.
I have always felt, particularly with some of the
strings that have been argued (not discussed or
debated), that people do not step back and look at a
situation or issue from outside their own views. If
you think back when there was that massacre at the
Swiss Parliament, I particularly recall people saying
the guy who committed the act was basically crazy and
a nut. Well I have the advantage of not being from
their so I can look at from an outsiders view. So
what made that guy so crazy? There were other factors
that contributed to this situation not just him being
denied something by the parliament. Why did the
Nazi's act the way they did? An entire nation
supported them and they aren't all crazy and nuts. How
about the Romans? The Communists? Democracy certainly
isn't much better. The United States is no better
than the USSR. We are nothing more than a Two party
state with small parties having little to no chance of
success. Will we ever see a Green Party
president--not in our life times.A choice between two
parties and just having one--sometimes I've thought
whether or not the choice of Democrat and Republican
is much of a choice. All sought to establish empires
(in essence). But the world came down on them why?
Now this is not meant to start a huge debate on the
issues I just brought up. But people on the ML before
typing long one sided opinions need to learn to step
back and look at something from outside their views.
This helps in getting a better understanding. For
example the citizen who recently public apologized for
being wrong. He was willing to come before us all
with an apology to another citizen and admit his
error. Now that is admirable. I sometimes wish we
all could be like that and not so close minded by our
views. Though I'm not saying you can't have your own
views just remember that NR is a world wide
organization and not everyone is going to have the
same views as you which requires of the citizen a
greater willingness to be accepting and open minded.
vale, Quintus Cornelius Caesar
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:35:55 -0800 (PST) |
|
--- cassius622@-------- wrote:
"suggestions of some things we might do to help
reduce the number of people leaving Nova Roma in the
future:"
--Nothing wrong with that.
"1. Work with new Citizens to help them learn about
Nova Roma and become used to the Roman community;"
--Yes work with them, but maybe make this on the ML
that way they are exposed to all cives and can get a
wider variety of opinions and maybe current citizens
could open more to assisting them in gaining a better
understanding (this is not implying a close-mindedness
of citizens to helping others).
"2. To work together to make the 'environment' of
Nova Roma more pleasant (by keeping the list rspectful
and making sure there are positive things for Citizens
to be involved in);"
--I do not disagree with this and this is true of
anywhere unless we are to become an anarchic society.
"3. To get more information about why some people
leave, so that common issues might be better
adressed."
--Now here I would propose a list for people to voice
there grievances and they maybe discussed. That way
Nova Roma could understand where there maybe faults
and citizens can understand where they may have a
misunderstanding. However those who wish to join also
need to understand that Nova Roma is recreating the
Roman system not a modern one.
I also did intend my post to come across as
saying the suggestion was out of place. I just feel
other steps need to taken to address issues rather
than everytime say lets create another list so wecan
move this issue off the ML.
vale,
Quintus Cornelius Caesar
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let's panic! |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:12:39 -0500 |
|
Salve Publius Sentius,
>Publius Sentius Rutilianus at rapax@-------- wrote:
>
> 'I'm sorry but life goes on!' solves nothing.If life goes on with
> the same errors!
There is not a major flaw that needs fixing. You *cannot* stop resignations
altogether. All institutions lose and gain members. What matters is that our
population continues to grow.
Publius, a scenario that would need "fixing" is if we suddenly lose a few
dozen citizens, or have a major rift in opinions and large chunks of our
population separate. As I see it this is simply not the case. Now don't
mistaken me. I do believe all citizens are important and that it's never
good to lose an active citizen. But, you must face the fact that this will
happen no matter how much effort we put into keeping citizens within Nova
Roma.
Most of the resignations cannot be blamed on Nova Roma as a whole. Most are
caused by a citizen with an agenda that does not fit with the path the
majority has chosen for this nation. We cannot force them to compromise. We
cannot force them to accept the greater agenda above personal agendas. We
simply can't do much. We should focus our effort on issues that we can
really have an influence over. Nova Roma is not on the verge of falling
apart, we are growing and gaining popularity.
Life does go on, resignations will go on. You can't please everyone. There
is no issue to solve, this is a perfectly natural event that all
organisations experience.
> Dexion : Excuse me but in my opinion resignations like
> Formosanus' and all of
> the similar ones were more important than those occured because of
> lack of time or
> loss of interest etc.
Ok, this has nothing to do with what I was saying. Importance? I never said
anything about some resignations being more important than others.
I said that if we are going to focus on stopping resignations we should
tackle resignations that have to do with "lack of time". This is because
this is a easier problem to solve. All we need to do is get the point across
that it is ok if you don't have allot of time to participate, and you can
still keep your citizenship because being Nova Roman has more to do with
just spending time online.How did you get importance out of that?
It's a shame that Formosanus resigned. Although it is close to impossible to
stop these types of resignations. It all has to do with personal opinions.
You can't make everyone happy.
> Dexion : In fact I still believe that a well-organized panic
> would be a good start of
> finding the errors and better ourselves.You can't create harmony
> without
> creating a chaos first.
Panic according to the oxford dictionary is a sudden uncontrollable terror,
infectious fear, a state of emergency.
The words organised and panic don't go together. We have nothing to fear,
and we have no emergency. We have no need for panic, and it would be counter
productive. We can be concerned, but panic is unnecessary.
You also make it sound as if we need to find errors in our system. I think
it's more realistic for the people that resigned to find errors in their
experience with this nation. I don't believe we as a nation will find any
identifiable problems that are realistically solvable.
> Dexion : If so I haven't noticed this in their posts...Am I
> just dumb and missing
> the point here ? :))Maybe you can provide some clear proof
> about their
> personal aims?I'd be appreciated!
Proof? No problem.
Devotion means sticking with it when things get tough. This means not
quitting just because you don't get your way. It means more than just giving
your time, it means seeing through with its cause above your own personal
agenda.
Take a look at the resignations. You should notice that the majority leave
because of a conflict with another citizen, or over personal political
opinions. True devotion would endure these hardships. Most leave over not
getting what they want... Simple, go look for yourself and see what I mean.
>> Dexion : We were calm in the past and we are calm now!And I'm
>> afraid if we
> will be calm in the future we will continue to lose more
> citizens.
We will always lose citizens. It's reality. Staying calm would probably be a
good idea because panic would not be any more productive than being calm.
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:30:47 -0500 |
|
Salvete Pompeia Cornelia et cives,
>pompeia_cornelia at trog99@-------- wrote:
>
> One initiative, however, that was started last year, but was never
> brought to fruition, was an *Introductory/Welcome* letter to each new
> citizen, which would serve as a *welcome aboard*, but also as a means
> of directing new civites to what areas of the website to check out
> ie,the message board, the chatroom, religio information, pertinent
> webpages, such as that Consul Germanicus prepared.
This is a great idea! I think this would solve many problems with citizens
not being active.
I also think keeping an updated section at NovaRoma.org with a list of links
to various Sodalitates and lists could help visitors that are wondering how
our community works get a better idea. It may help them realise how we
communicate, what we discuss, etc. even before they become citizens.
The less popular lists could also benefit from the increase in visitors
arriving through NovaRoma.org. =)
Valete,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:30:56 -0500 |
|
Salvete Pompeia Cornelia et cives,
>pompeia_cornelia at trog99@-------- wrote:
>
> One initiative, however, that was started last year, but was never
> brought to fruition, was an *Introductory/Welcome* letter to each new
> citizen, which would serve as a *welcome aboard*, but also as a means
> of directing new civites to what areas of the website to check out
> ie,the message board, the chatroom, religio information, pertinent
> webpages, such as that Consul Germanicus prepared.
This is a great idea! I think this would solve many problems with citizens
not being active.
I also think keeping an updated section at NovaRoma.org with a list of links
to various Sodalitates and lists could help visitors that are wondering how
our community works get a better idea. It may help them realise how we
communicate, what we discuss, etc. even before they become citizens.
The less popular lists could also benefit from the increase in visitors
arriving through NovaRoma.org. =)
Valete,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:23:43 +0100 |
|
Salvete Amuli Claudi Petre civesque ceteri,
On 12/16/01 7:03 PM, Amulius Claudius Petrus wrote:
> Salvete Gaius Noviodunus et cives,
>
>>G. Noviodunus Ferriculus at Gaius.Noviodunus@-------- wrote:
>>
>>So basically, I am creating the number 0 of an independent E-Zine, in
>>which I want to talk of major things happening in Nova Roma. I hope to
>>gather more reporters, as soon as they see what can be done. I won't be
>>able to do this work alone, so if you don't want this project stop at
>>number 0, then please contact me.
>>
> I offer you any help I could provide. I am a professional web designer, if
> you need help on designing the site I am here. If you would like someone who
> could write reports etc., I could do that too.
>
> I also encourage citizens to get involved in this project. If we could get
> this going it would do a great service to Nova Roma. It would be a shame if
> this did not work out because of lack of participants.
Thank you Amuli Claudi Petre for your kind offer. As a web-designer, you
will probably have some ideas for the design of the site, but don't
worry, there won't be too much work on this side, since I'm a
professional web-developper. Just the design is my weak part ;-). Since
English is not my native language, it's great to have someone who can do
the redactional part.
Everyone, please go check out the number 0 I have annonced previously on
this list at the following address:
http://www.iseli.org/novaroma/hebdomada.htm
Feedback wanted! Please tell me if this is the information you would
like to find in the e-zine and if not, what other stuff. I haven't put
much energy in it, but I am ready to do much more. Especially if other
people join, this project really can get very motivating.
So hope to hear from you soon!
Valete bene,
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Let's Panic |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:32:26 EST |
|
Dexion :
Excuse me but in my opinion resignations like
Formosanus' and all of the similar ones were more important than those
occured because of lack of time or loss of interest etc.For they were all
active cives who tried to work for NR.
Cassius:
Let's not mistake merely being 'vocal' with being active in a productive way.
No offense to Formosanus, but I'm not sure he was doing all that much work
for NR. The largest thing he volunteered to do was translate the Nova Roma
website. He did not do this work - instead he built his new 'Societas Via
Romana' website and translated *that* into ten different languages.
>Some may agree or disagree with their opinions but this doesn't change the
fact that they 'tried'.I'm not talking about any specific cive here I'm
giving the name of this ex-cive because you named him.
Cassius:
In the specific case of Formosanus there wasn't much *anyone* could have
done.
Most of the Citizens of Nova Roma joined and stay here because they believe
what's 'right' about Nova Roma is that we're sincerely trying to restore
Roman community as accurately as possible. (We recognize it's not perfect,
but we're trying.)
Formosanus believed this was the single biggest thing that was *wrong* with
Nova Roma. He was adamant that we should scrap all the historical structure
of Roman society and politics and build a modern Utopia in accord with his
own social beliefs.
Those two views were about as incompatible as ideals get. Things really have
turned out about as well as they could have. Formosanus didn't get what he
wanted, and Nova Roma remains a sincere attempt to revive ancient Rome with
only specific and important modern concessions (Women's rights, elimination
of slavery, elimination of deliberately mortal gladiatorial combat, etc.)
If Formosanus had succeeded, and Nova Roma had decided to pursue a modern
focus rather than a historical one, we'd have had *many more* resignations.
We'd have lost hundreds of people rather than less than five. I know I would
have resigned without a thought - I'm here for "things Roman" rather than
social experimentation.
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:39:59 +0100 |
|
Feedback wanted! Please tell me if this is the information you would
like to find in the e-zine and if not, what other stuff. I haven't put
much energy in it, but I am ready to do much more. Especially if other
people join, this project really can get very motivating.
So hope to hear from you soon!
Valete bene,
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum
Salve Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus!
I have just landed in RL since I as a teacher have had to give my pupils
marks and correcting essays on different issues. During this period I have
been lost in Teachers-Space. ;-)
I am not "free" yet, but I must say that your idea is great. I don't think
that such a newsletter must be absolutely independent as lomng as it is
very open with where it stands. If we have one or two more, it could even
be an advantage if each of them declared a separate position. This would
make them an even more interesting read.
I can only say: Good Luck!
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
Kristoffer From <from@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:42:57 +0100 |
|
"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" wrote:
> Everyone, please go check out the number 0 I have annonced previously on
> this list at the following address:
>
> http://www.iseli.org/novaroma/hebdomada.htm
>
> Feedback wanted! Please tell me if this is the information you would
> like to find in the e-zine and if not, what other stuff. I haven't put
> much energy in it, but I am ready to do much more. Especially if other
> people join, this project really can get very motivating.
Salve, Gai Noviodune Ferricule.
I checked the homepage, and have no real comments as to the content, but
the layout...I think something's wrong on the code level, 'cause it
looked really abhorrent in my Netscape browser. It looked a lot better
from Opera, and I'm pretty sure it'd look better from Windows as well.
It's just that we poor linux/netscape users want it to look pretty as
well...;)
Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
--
"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
+--------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| Phone: +46 90 98300 | E-mail: c99kfm@-------- |
| +46 70 3972769 | from@-------- |
+--------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| Address: Kristoffer From | Website: thule.novaroma.org/titus |
| Furuvägen 23 +-----------------------------------+
| 918 31 Sävar | ICQ: Titus Octavius Pius |
| SWEDEN | UIN 5589990 |
+--------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- |
| Version: 3.1 |
| GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N |
| o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X- |
| R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !y- |
| ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:48:08 -0500 |
|
Salve Gaius Noviodunus,
>G. Noviodunus Ferriculus at Gaius.Noviodunus@-------- wrote:
>
> Thank you Amuli Claudi Petre for your kind offer. As a web-designer, you
> will probably have some ideas for the design of the site, but don't
> worry, there won't be too much work on this side, since I'm a
> professional web-developper. Just the design is my weak part ;-). Since
> English is not my native language, it's great to have someone who can do
> the redactional part.
Great, seeing that you too are a web designer you are the perfect person for
the job of creating this site. Although if you need any help with anything
you can contact me at my email pkkt@--------
> http://www.iseli.org/novaroma/hebdomada.htm
>
> Feedback wanted! Please tell me if this is the information you would
> like to find in the e-zine and if not, what other stuff. I haven't put
> much energy in it, but I am ready to do much more. Especially if other
> people join, this project really can get very motivating.
Looks great, I like how you based it on a newspaper type layout. You may
want to add some graphics to spice it up a little, maybe the flag or
something. I would concentrate mainly on the Saturnalia, and the election
results to be released any time now. Maybe you could contact the Pontifex
Maximus and interview him on something concerning the festival. Or you could
interview the winners of this years elections when announced.
It would be useful to also have a summery of all the major issues discussed
on this list. With those citizens that don't have enough time to read all
the messages this would be a great resource to keep them up to date. Keep up
the great work, and please keep me updated on the progress of this project.
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:56:59 +0100 |
|
Salve Caeso Fabi Quintiliane,
On 12/17/01 12:39 AM, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:
>
> Salve Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus!
>
> I am not "free" yet, but I must say that your idea is great. I don't think
> that such a newsletter must be absolutely independent as lomng as it is
> very open with where it stands. If we have one or two more, it could even
> be an advantage if each of them declared a separate position. This would
> make them an even more interesting read.
>
> I can only say: Good Luck!
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Quaestor of Nova Roma
> Propraetor of Thule
>
> CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
Thanks for all you write. I've seen some people are having a problem
with "independent". I think it must be a big misunderstanding.
Independent just means: not depending on someone "nullius imperio
subiectus" as would Romans say.
Competition: yes, sure, that would be great, but for start I think, one
e-zine would be OK. Competition will automatically be born as soon as
some opinion differences rise inside of one e-zine.
And hope as soon as you have more time, we will be able to read articles
by you too!
Vale bene,
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum
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