| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:03:24 +0100 |
|
Salve Tite Octavi Pi,
On 12/17/01 12:42 AM, Kristoffer From wrote:
> Salve, Gai Noviodune Ferricule.
>
> I checked the homepage, and have no real comments as to the content, but
> the layout...I think something's wrong on the code level, 'cause it
> looked really abhorrent in my Netscape browser. It looked a lot better
> from Opera, and I'm pretty sure it'd look better from Windows as well.
> It's just that we poor linux/netscape users want it to look pretty as
> well...;)
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
Sorry for the problems you experienced. And I am aware of these. It was just
a first shot so I could show you what is in my mind and get your
feedback. As soon as I know that it's really worth the time, I'll make
it also compatible Netscape 4.x. For the time being, it is best viewed
with Netscape 6.x, Mozilla (and other Gecko browsers like Konqueror for
Linux) and IE 5.5 or higher.
Vale bene,
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Seasons' Greetings |
| From: |
"piparskegg" <catamount_grange@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:06:03 -0000 |
|
Salus et Fortuna Omnes!
May That Which Is Holy keep Thee and Thine in sight!
May the Seasonal Religious Holy Days of one and all
bring joy, comfort and prosperity!
May the turn of the year bring better things for the Respublica and
Her Cives!
May our efforts towards a New City bear sweet fruit!
In Amicus sub Fidelis
Pierbarbus Ullerius Venator
Flamen Privatus Ullerus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:08:55 +0100 |
|
On 12/17/01 12:48 AM, Amulius Claudius Petrus wrote:
>>http://www.iseli.org/novaroma/hebdomada.htm
>>
>>Feedback wanted!
>
> Looks great, I like how you based it on a newspaper type layout. You may
> want to add some graphics to spice it up a little, maybe the flag or
> something. I would concentrate mainly on the Saturnalia, and the election
> results to be released any time now.
Right, the Saturnalia probably is more important than the Lictores ;-)
But I don't think, I could already get something about the election
results, since they are not yet available. I just considered this number
0 to be released on Monday 17, and that the elections only could be
treated in the following week's issue.
> Maybe you could contact the Pontifex
> Maximus and interview him on something concerning the festival. Or you could
> interview the winners of this years elections when announced.
>
> It would be useful to also have a summery of all the major issues discussed
> on this list. With those citizens that don't have enough time to read all
> the messages this would be a great resource to keep them up to date. Keep up
> the great work, and please keep me updated on the progress of this project.
A summary of the issues, that's exactly what I would like to do. But did I
miss anything important?
Time to go to bed now,
Vale bene,
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: No, let's Not. (Was: Let's Panic!) |
| From: |
"otto_von_sitter" <otto_von_sitter@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:59:17 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> wrote:
> Ave,
> Creating a new list is hardly a solution but
> rather a means of throwing an issue on the back
> burner. If it is evident that a majority on this list
> do not want to continue the topic of discussion then
> it should be dropped. Not thrown on a seperate list
> because that is nothing more than a waste of space.
Debate of any kind isn't a waste of space, no matter how irrelevant.
If people feel they cannot openly discuss something, then they feel
opressed. I'm not saying that's the gospel truth, I'm simply stating
from my own experience and from how certain indivduals reacted to the
idea of censoring the main list.
> Or there is another simple solution DELETE THE POST!
> A couple weeks ago when the topic of nationalism and
> list moderation was being debated I got sick of
> reading of it because it ran dry and that it got to
> the point where those discussing were rehashing the
> same old opinions and repackaging them so to say. So
> either have the issue removed or delete. It is not
> like checking a box and clicking the delete function
> of your e-mail provider is that much of an
> inconvenience or requires that much of an exertion of
> energy.
Not everyone likes having their mailbox spammed, so they limit what
messages they get to special announcements and check back at the list
for all the little ones. Because there are som many posts in one
day, it can take a while to go through them all, even with a T1
connection.
> In regards to what you said of the NRLandProject
> list people had always offered valuable opinions and
> information. Just because you don't feel that they
> have any quality to them does not make you right.
> After all you are not God (not meant to come across as
> patronization) so your word is not the word of God.
I was by no means suggesting that I was God or that my word was the
word of God. I also had no intention of coming of as patronizing,
and I appologize if that's what it seemed like. I was only using an
example. Yes, there were many constructive ideas that came up, but
there was also a lot of mud slinging and name calling going on, or at
least that is what a lot of people took it as. After a while, the
debate (or argument, whichever you prefer) was taking up a lot of
space on the main list, so a list was created just for the Land
Project.
> I have always felt, particularly with some of the
> strings that have been argued (not discussed or
> debated), that people do not step back and look at a
> situation or issue from outside their own views.
That's because when people are angry, they are unreasonable. You
cannot honetly tell me you have never taken a stance on something and
stubbornly stuck to it. Sometimes, it is best to put things on the
backburner. After a while, anger peters out and people can then look
at things reasonably.
<snipped>
But people on the ML before
> typing long one sided opinions need to learn to step
> back and look at something from outside their views.
> This helps in getting a better understanding. For
> example the citizen who recently public apologized for
> being wrong. He was willing to come before us all
> with an apology to another citizen and admit his
> error. Now that is admirable. I sometimes wish we
> all could be like that and not so close minded by our
> views. Though I'm not saying you can't have your own
> views just remember that NR is a world wide
> organization and not everyone is going to have the
> same views as you which requires of the citizen a
> greater willingness to be accepting and open minded.
> vale, Quintus Cornelius Caesar
Yes, publicly apologizing is quite admirable. And yes, it would be
nice to if everbody could take a look at other views before writing
out long one sided messages. To a certain extent, I think everybody
on the list does. These, long one sided messages are simply an
expression of ones view. I don't know about ather people, but when I
put what is my opinion, and my opinion alone, out on a list, I don't
expect people to bow to my will or to even agree with me, I just want
it to be known where I stand. Some of the problem with long messages
are that when people are in a rush, they don't read everything, and
they might take offence.
Now brother, I publicly apologize to you. I had no intention of
sounding insulting or patronizing. I was simply expressing what I
felt to be a valid point. I am sorry in you are offended.
Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Let's panic! |
| From: |
"otto_von_sitter" <otto_von_sitter@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:05:35 -0000 |
|
*Sorry not to reply with the right message*
I think it would be a great idea to have some sort of a survey to
fill out for people that resign. Then we could figure out if any
problem they had might be fixable. Just saying we have problems and
that we need to fix them doesn't do much good unless we know what
problem to fix. I forget exactly suggested that idea, I swear my
memory must be going, but again, great idea.
Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Public Ritual Question |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:21:09 EST |
|
Salvete,
A few Citizens have contacted the Collegium Pontificum and asked for the
Pontiffs to lead "live festivals," where the Pontiffs, Priesthood and
Citizens would gather and do rituals in 'real time' communication.
While this would certainly raise the level of participation in the Religio,
I've had serious reservations about the idea. Getting people so separated
geographically together at the same time is a major problem. Not only do we
have various time zones to worry over, but our individual schedules vary.
Online meetings must also be more 'prompt' than face to face ones. If you're
ten minutes late to a local gathering due to traffic or whatever it's no big
deal. If for some reason you leave people hanging in an empty Internet
chatroom for that same amount of time, they'll probably go surf something
else.
I personally have a pretty busy schedule, and my daily 'window of
opportunity' for public ritual is pretty brief. I'd be pretty usually
available from 7-9 PM EST during the week but there'd be no guarantee on
weekends at all. I'm sure others have similar situations. And, frankly, I've
never been all that thrilled with the idea of stopping a solemn ritual
periodically to type messages into the computer.
So far, the best solution has been to post rituals in the hopes that people
will do them privately on the same day when they can - and post about it
afterwards. So, the question is: Would folks like to see something different
done? And if so, what?
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] You have a posty! |
| From: |
scriba_forum@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:15:23 -0500 (EST) |
|
Confidential! For Saturnalia Greetings only!
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo has created a special posty, just for you, Saturnalia Greetings
and has sent it to you on Sun Dec 16 20:15:23 2001.
The posty will be stored for you for 3 weeks.
Be sure to pick it during these 3 weeks before it expires.
You may pick it up from
Mystic Realms
http://www.mysticrealms.org.uk/pcards.htm
Your ticket number is: 121620152324535
Alternatively you can pick it up by clicking on the link below:
http://bas.mypostcards.com/?mystic+121620152324535
***********
If you are using AOL mail: <a href="http://bas.mypostcards.com/?mystic+121620152324535">just click here</a>.
***********
from the Mystic Realms Team<br> \<br> `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.-> <h4><a href=http://www.mysticrealms.org.uk/index.htm>Mystic Realms</a></h4><br>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: No, let's Not. (Was: Let's Panic!) |
| From: |
Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:45:04 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave,
"Debate of any kind isn't a waste of space, no matter
how irrelevant. If people feel they cannot openly
discuss something, then they feel opressed. I'm not
saying that's the gospel truth, I'm simply stating
from my own experience and from how certain indivduals
reacted to the idea of censoring the main list."
--I agree with you here that all debate has relevence
regardless of its relevence to the daily operations
and functions of Nova Roma. Like some debates are
just unavoidable particularly after Sept 11 with the
attack on the United States.
"Not everyone likes having their mailbox spammed, so
they limit what messages they get to special
announcements and check back at the list for all the
little ones. Because there are so many posts in one
day, it can take a while to go through them all,even
with a T1 connection."
--I don't view it as spam since it is part of this
list. However I do understand your point if people
just don't want to engage in the topic of discussion.
I feel though that if there is an overwhelming
majority wishing for the cessation of the string then
the moderator should have the power to order its
cessation. But I don't know all the laws of Nova Roma
so I off hand do not know the extent of the powers of
the moderator.
"I was by no means suggesting that I was God or that
my word was the word of God. I also had no intention
of coming of as patronizing, and I appologize if
that's what it seemed like. I was only using an
example. Yes, there were many constructive ideas that
came up, but there was also a lot of mud slinging and
name calling going on, or at least that is what a lot
of people took it as. After a while, the debate (or
argument, whichever you prefer) was taking up a lot of
space on the main list, so a list was created just for
the Land Project."
--Okay I will apologize because I feel now that the
God reference was a poor and not very tactful anology
to use. Of the little experience I do have here in
Nova Roma I was around for the mud-slinging over land
that occurred a few months ago. But, I do feel though
since it was a string more relevent to Nova Roma and
an important issue, in my eyes, that could be
addressed again later in the future when the treasury
capacity expands, that the creation of a list for this
topic is good. That way I guess you could say it
gives a sector where special attention is given to it.
"When people are angry, they are unreasonable. You
cannot honetly tell me you have never taken a stance
on something and stubbornly stuck to it. Sometimes,
it is best to put things on the backburner. After a
while, anger peters out and people can then look at
things reasonably."
--Yes I have stubbornly defended myself on certain
topics on the ML. HOWEVER, when I have done so, I did
so because I could factually back myself up. Some
people just argue and argue out of blind belief. You
can argue beliefs/opinions all you want but without
support for it (as in fact) then it is pointless
because nothing is accomplished. There were strings a
couple months ago that I engaged in and people did
tell me I waswrong and they were right. However, to
this day I proved them wrong on the issue and have
scores of information (i.e. books and research) I can
cite for them to show them so. Thats why I don't like
engaging in religious debates. Because they are based
solely on blind faith instead of fact. You can't
argue faith. Because if you have the atheist and lets
say the Roman catholic arguing over religion. One
argues that God is not real the other firmly believes
in God. So how do you prove God is and isn't real?
Understand why I avoid...thankfully it hasn't come up
on the ML. Yes I do agree it is good to put things on
the backburner....but its those engaged who need to do
so.
"It would be nice to if everbody could take a look at
other views before writing out long one sided
messages. To a certain extent, I think everybody
on the list does. These, long one sided messages are
simply an expression of ones view. I don't know about
other people, but when I put what is my opinion, and
my opinion alone, out on a list, I don't expect people
to bow to my will or to even agree with me, I just
want it to be known where I stand. Some of the
problem
with long messages are that when people are in a
rush, they don't read everything, and they might take
offence."
--Again there's nothing wrong with opinion I didn't
mean my statement prior to this to sound as though no
one should have an opinion. Opinions are good cause
the draw the line in the sand so to say and show where
people stand. Otherwise we would be blindly voting
for citizens for high positions within the governemnt.
"Now brother, I publicly apologize to you. I had no
intention of sounding insulting or patronizing. I was
simply expressing what I felt to be a valid point. I
am sorry in you are offended.
--(DO NOT take offense to this) Not accepted because
you neither were insulting to me nor were you
patronizing. There is no need for a public apology.
I see this as a calm discussion nothing more. I do
underst your point and it is valid but I in return
felt the need to share mine.
vale,
Quintus Cornelius Caesar
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Roman Post Cards? |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:42:34 EST |
|
Salvete,
First, many thanks to Pompeia Cornelia Strabo for her Saturnalia greeting!
Brightened my evening considerably... :)
And, it also brought an old idea back to mind. A little over a year ago I
inquired about making online postcards and a couple of "desktop themes"
available on the NR website. The idea got bounced around among a very few
individuals, but never made it to public discussion.
Would it be worthwhile to have some online Roman postcards available through
Nova Roma? There are a lot of sites that do online cards, but only one that's
Roman, (and it's humorous stuff) at:
http://www.roman-empire.net/cards/card.html
Would anyone like to see this available on the NR website? If so, why? If
not, why?
Also, is there anyone (besides our already overtaxed webmaster) who could
help work on such a thing?
My personal feeling is that online postcards might be fun, AND might help
promote Nova Roma if folks use the service. However, it would have to be done
in a tasteful manner and be added to the NR website in a way that wouldn't
distract people from our serious ideals.
Anyway, I was thinking it'd be neat to be able to send online NR Saturnalia
cards to a bunch of folks...
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo wrote:
Confidential! For Saturnalia Greetings only!
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo has created a special posty, just for you, Saturnalia
Greetings
and has sent it to you on Sun Dec 16 20:15:23 2001.
The posty will be stored for you for 3 weeks.
Be sure to pick it during these 3 weeks before it expires.
You may pick it up from
Mystic Realms
<A HREF="http://www.mysticrealms.org.uk/pcards.htm">http://www.mysticrealms.org.uk/pcards.htm</A>
Your ticket number is: 121620152324535
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Roman Post Cards? |
| From: |
Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:57:20 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave,
I think posting e-cards and computer themes on the
NR website could enhance and maybe even appeal to some
and attract more citizens.
vale
Quintus Cornelius Caesar
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Independent E-Zine |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:01:26 -0500 |
|
Salve Gaius Noviodunus,
>G. Noviodunus Ferriculus at Gaius.Noviodunus@-------- wrote:
>
> Right, the Saturnalia probably is more important than the Lictores ;-)
> But I don't think, I could already get something about the election
> results, since they are not yet available. I just considered this number
> 0 to be released on Monday 17, and that the elections only could be
> treated in the following week's issue.
I see, you should discuss the election results the following week. I am sure
people would still be interested. An interview with the winners of the
higher offices would be neat.
> A summary of the issues, that's exactly what I would like to do. But did I
> miss anything important?
>
Maybe something to do with the "independence" issue surrounding this
publication. It has come up a few times. =)
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Roman Post Cards? |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:09:43 -0500 |
|
Salve Quintus Cornelius,
This is a great idea! We could have e-cards focusing on our festivals, and
special events. If elected Aediles Curules I will definitely look into this.
My thanks for the inspiration Quintus! I will see what I can do to make this
a reality.
>Michael Loughlin at qccaesar@-------- wrote:
>
> I think posting e-cards and computer themes on the
> NR website could enhance and maybe even appeal to some
> and attract more citizens.
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's Panic |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:11:37 -0800 |
|
Ave,
I just wanted to say that I concur 100% with this post from Consul
Cassius. Its not very often I can say this. <g> So I just wanted to
note this completely.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
cassius622@-------- wrote:
>
> Dexion :
> Excuse me but in my opinion resignations like
> Formosanus' and all of the similar ones were more important than those
>
> occured because of lack of time or loss of interest etc.For they were
> all
> active cives who tried to work for NR.
>
> Cassius:
> Let's not mistake merely being 'vocal' with being active in a
> productive way.
> No offense to Formosanus, but I'm not sure he was doing all that much
> work
> for NR. The largest thing he volunteered to do was translate the Nova
> Roma
> website. He did not do this work - instead he built his new 'Societas
> Via
> Romana' website and translated *that* into ten different languages.
>
> >Some may agree or disagree with their opinions but this doesn't
> change the
> fact that they 'tried'.I'm not talking about any specific cive here
> I'm
> giving the name of this ex-cive because you named him.
>
> Cassius:
> In the specific case of Formosanus there wasn't much *anyone* could
> have
> done.
>
> Most of the Citizens of Nova Roma joined and stay here because they
> believe
> what's 'right' about Nova Roma is that we're sincerely trying to
> restore
> Roman community as accurately as possible. (We recognize it's not
> perfect,
> but we're trying.)
>
> Formosanus believed this was the single biggest thing that was *wrong*
> with
> Nova Roma. He was adamant that we should scrap all the historical
> structure
> of Roman society and politics and build a modern Utopia in accord with
> his
> own social beliefs.
>
> Those two views were about as incompatible as ideals get. Things
> really have
> turned out about as well as they could have. Formosanus didn't get
> what he
> wanted, and Nova Roma remains a sincere attempt to revive ancient Rome
> with
> only specific and important modern concessions (Women's rights,
> elimination
> of slavery, elimination of deliberately mortal gladiatorial combat,
> etc.)
>
> If Formosanus had succeeded, and Nova Roma had decided to pursue a
> modern
> focus rather than a historical one, we'd have had *many more*
> resignations.
> We'd have lost hundreds of people rather than less than five. I know I
> would
> have resigned without a thought - I'm here for "things Roman" rather
> than
> social experimentation.
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
|
| Subject: |
SURVEY Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's panic! |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:14:15 -0800 |
|
Ave,
When I was consul back in 1999 I conducted a survey of all Nova Roman
Citizens. When I take office next year I plan to do the very same
thing. However, I will state that I do not think it would be valuable
to have resigned citizens have any input. Only those citizens who are
"alive" should have a say in the development of Nova Roma.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
otto_von_sitter wrote:
>
> *Sorry not to reply with the right message*
>
> I think it would be a great idea to have some sort of a survey to
> fill out for people that resign. Then we could figure out if any
> problem they had might be fixable. Just saying we have problems and
> that we need to fix them doesn't do much good unless we know what
> problem to fix. I forget exactly suggested that idea, I swear my
> memory must be going, but again, great idea.
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:38:04 -0500 |
|
Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD
Every new citizens is *already* sent a *Introductory/Welcome* letter automatically and this has been the case for many months now, since early in my term as Censor.
Also, on the "main page"
http://www.novaroma.org/main.html
there is a link entitled 'Information for New Citizens'
http://www.novaroma.org/newcitizens/
,just below the link for the link
NEW: Interactive Calendar Upcoming events and Religious observances
Please, we shouldn't have to spoon feed adults everything.
Anything that a new or prospective citizen needs is already displayed.
Not every new citizen is going to be "Active", and that is fine.
Let people be free to choose in what manner they will contribute, even if they are just breathing they may someday find the time and desire to do something in some area. I'll be satisfied if citizens Vote, obey the laws and pay tax. Anything more is icing on the cake!
IO SATURNALIA!!!
--- In novaroma@--------, Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Pompeia Cornelia et cives,
>
> >pompeia_cornelia at trog99@-------- wrote:
> >
> > One initiative, however, that was started last year, but was never
> > brought to fruition, was an *Introductory/Welcome* letter to each > > new citizen, which would serve as a *welcome aboard*, but also as > > a means of directing new civites to what areas of the website to > > check out ie,the message board, the chatroom, religio
> > information, pertinent webpages, such as that Consul Germanicus
> > prepared.
>
> This is a great idea! I think this would solve many problems with
> citizens not being active.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Survey |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:46:31 EST |
|
Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:
>When I was consul back in 1999 I conducted a survey of all Nova Roman
Citizens. When I take office next year I plan to do the very same
thing.
Cassius:
Heh, I remember that poll. I got a form letter from an assistant of yours,
asking questions like "Are you still a Citizen of Nova Roma?" Fair enough
question to ask a Senator, Pontifex and Proconsul who was posting to the list
every singly day... ;)
Could you possibly refresh my memory as to exactly what that poll achieved,
and what things were done (and changes made) with the information gathered?
>However, I will state that I do not think it would be valuable
to have resigned citizens have any input. Only those citizens who are
"alive" should have a say in the development of Nova Roma.
The idea is not to allow ex-citizens "input", but to gather information as to
WHY they've chosen to become ex-citizens. It's about keeping records. Right
now when people leave we simply strike them from the Citizen rolls, and it's
over.
If we were to gather information as to why folks have left, and review it
overall, we might well identify specific problems to focus on.
Hopefully our Censors for the coming year can work up a very brief
"resignation questionnaire" to be sent to departing Citizens. There's no
guarantee that someone leaving would fill it out of course, but even if one
out of three did so it might be helpful to us.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Romanitas and history |
| From: |
charly gilliam <charlotte98d@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:03:04 -0800 (PST) |
|
We are all binded together because of our Roman-ness.
that's how I see it.
__________________________________________________
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your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Virtutes |
| From: |
charly gilliam <charlotte98d@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:05:45 -0800 (PST) |
|
1.Dutifulness
2.dignity
3.tenacity
but all of the Roman virtues are something we should
daily strive towards!
__________________________________________________
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your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:52:07 -0000 |
|
---Salvete Censor Lucius Equitus:
I truly apologize. I was under the impression that the Intro/welcome
letter was never implemented due to a conflicting view of the idea
prior to the onset of your term.
Bene vale, and again, my apologies,
Pompeia
In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@v...> wrote:
> Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD
>
> Every new citizens is *already* sent a *Introductory/Welcome* letter
automatically and this has been the case for many months now, since
early in my term as Censor.
>
> Also, on the "main page"
> http://www.novaroma.org/main.html
> there is a link entitled 'Information for New Citizens'
> http://www.novaroma.org/newcitizens/
> ,just below the link for the link
> NEW: Interactive Calendar Upcoming events and Religious observances
>
>
> Please, we shouldn't have to spoon feed adults everything.
> Anything that a new or prospective citizen needs is already
displayed.
>
> Not every new citizen is going to be "Active", and that is fine.
> Let people be free to choose in what manner they will contribute,
even if they are just breathing they may someday find the time and
desire to do something in some area. I'll be satisfied if citizens
Vote, obey the laws and pay tax. Anything more is icing on the cake!
>
> IO SATURNALIA!!!
>
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Pompeia Cornelia et cives,
> >
> > >pompeia_cornelia at trog99@-------- wrote:
> > >
> > > One initiative, however, that was started last year, but was
never
> > > brought to fruition, was an *Introductory/Welcome* letter to
each > > new citizen, which would serve as a *welcome aboard*, but
also as > > a means of directing new civites to what areas of the
website to > > check out ie,the message board, the chatroom, religio
> > > information, pertinent webpages, such as that Consul Germanicus
> > > prepared.
> >
> > This is a great idea! I think this would solve many problems with
> > citizens not being active.
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Io Saturnalia! |
| From: |
Sanctaluna3@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:55:25 EST |
|
Salve,
Let the merriment begin! We'll be hosting a public Saturnalia ritual at
Practical Magick bookstore in Frankfort, Illinois on Saturday, December 22 at
3:00 pm.
Please bring a dish to share for the feasting afterwards and a small gift
(wrapped) for the gift exchange.
Also, I think Roman e-cards is a GREAT idea and volunteer to help make this a
virtual reality.
Vale,
In Her Service,
Blessed Be,
Gaia Cassia Fortunata
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] E-Cards |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:41:29 -0000 |
|
Salvete Omnes:
I absolutely *love* the idea of our own E-cards.
In the meantime, if you wish to send a card greeting out, visit
www.allposters.com
They have absolutely everything under the sun in terms of artprints.
You will be greeted by Bacchus on the front page (maybe they are
Romans too??) ........then look toward the bottom right of the page
and click on Gods and Heros......Everything on the site you may send
as an e-card.
Another category: Use the search engine and type in "Greek and Roman
Art".........some of the stuff is just breathtaking,...I rather liked
the image of Apollo with the Mystical Realms.com, though, but their
selection is not as comprehensive.
We have some very talented people here in NR...I am sure this notion
of our own cards is rather doable, no? Another thing this planet is
sadly lacking is greeting cards, yunno the type you pop in the mail?
Another thought.......
Bene valete,
Pompeia
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Io Saturnalia! |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:43:47 -0000 |
|
--- Salve Cassia:
Oh, I wish you a great time!! I am sure it will be awesome.
**Practical Magic** Bookstore, eh?
I read a book some years back, entitled practical magic, by Wayne
Dyer...excellent in many ways.
Best wishes,
Pompeia
In novaroma@--------, Sanctaluna3@a... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Let the merriment begin! We'll be hosting a public Saturnalia
ritual at
> Practical Magick bookstore in Frankfort, Illinois on Saturday,
December 22 at
> 3:00 pm.
>
> Please bring a dish to share for the feasting afterwards and a small
gift
> (wrapped) for the gift exchange.
>
> Also, I think Roman e-cards is a GREAT idea and volunteer to help
make this a
> virtual reality.
>
> Vale,
> In Her Service,
> Blessed Be,
> Gaia Cassia Fortunata
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Roman Post Cards? |
| From: |
Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:47:31 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave,
If we design our own e-cards we could do so much.
For any of the Legio that maybe associated with Nova
Roma we could use pictures they have of there
Legionnaires as post cards (with their consent of
course) for the "warriors" out there, we could get
images of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome for the
religious minded, images of Rome itself, and so
on....I think we could go far and do lots with this
idea
vale,
Quintus Cornelius Caesar
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Io Saturnalia! |
| From: |
Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:06:04 -0600 |
|
Well good golly!
Sanctaluna3@-------- wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Let the merriment begin! We'll be hosting a public
> Saturnalia ritual at Practical Magick bookstore in
> Frankfort, Illinois on Saturday, December 22 at 3:00 pm.
>
> [znip]
>
> Vale,
> In Her Service,
> Blessed Be,
> Gaia Cassia Fortunata
>
Another live Nova Roman less than 2 1/2 hours from my house.
And, NOT subscribed to the Provincial mailing list!!! >8-(
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GreatLakesNovaRoma/
--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html
Stress is when you wake up screaming
and you realize you haven't fallen asleep yet.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Survey |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:15:31 -0800 |
|
cassius622@-------- wrote:
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:
>
> >When I was consul back in 1999 I conducted a survey of all Nova Roman
> Citizens. When I take office next year I plan to do the very same
> thing.
>
> Cassius:
> Heh, I remember that poll. I got a form letter from an assistant of
> yours,
> asking questions like "Are you still a Citizen of Nova Roma?" Fair
> enough
> question to ask a Senator, Pontifex and Proconsul who was posting to
> the list
> every singly day... ;)
Well its difficult to fashion an individually specific survey. :) Given
that I had to send the email out by hand to about 350 citizens.
> Could you possibly refresh my memory as to exactly what that poll
> achieved,
> and what things were done (and changes made) with the information
> gathered?
Well I am currently hunting for that information now. Because a similar
survey (with some additions) will be done again.
> >However, I will state that I do not think it would be valuable
> to have resigned citizens have any input. Only those citizens who are
> "alive" should have a say in the development of Nova Roma.
>
> The idea is not to allow ex-citizens "input", but to gather
> information as to
> WHY they've chosen to become ex-citizens. It's about keeping records.
> Right
> now when people leave we simply strike them from the Citizen rolls,
> and it's
> over.
Oh I understand that..but I think that most ex-citizens make their
feelings known with their final "send off" on the ML.
<Snip>
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] HURRAY! |
| From: |
mark zona <pitdog2002@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:16:07 -0800 (PST) |
|
IO SATVRNALIA!!!!!!!!!
That said, I'm gonna have a drink!
Vale!
Marcus Antonius Zeno
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] HURRAY! |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:18:40 -0800 |
|
Ave,
I SECOND THAT! I still got 3/4 of a Liter of Chanti from my dinner with
Oppius Flaccus....I think I should uncork that bottle for a drink as
well!
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
mark zona wrote:
>
> IO SATVRNALIA!!!!!!!!!
>
> That said, I'm gonna have a drink!
>
> Vale!
>
> Marcus Antonius Zeno
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] HURRAY! |
| From: |
mark zona <pitdog2002@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:38:09 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave,
HEY!
Thats what I'm drinking!
Vale!
Marcus Antonius Zeno
--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
<alexious@--------> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> I SECOND THAT! I still got 3/4 of a Liter of Chanti
> from my dinner with
> Oppius Flaccus....I think I should uncork that
> bottle for a drink as
> well!
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla
>
> mark zona wrote:
> >
> > IO SATVRNALIA!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > That said, I'm gonna have a drink!
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > Marcus Antonius Zeno
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for
> all of
> > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
> > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
__________________________________________________
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your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] speaking of role reversals... |
| From: |
mark zona <pitdog2002@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:40:01 -0800 (PST) |
|
Can I be Pontifex Maximus this week?
Vale Bene!
Marcus Antonius Zeno
__________________________________________________
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your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
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|
| Subject: |
Re: SURVEY Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's panic! |
| From: |
"Gaius Cornelius Publicus" <gaius-cornelius-publicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:13:57 -0800 |
|
In the Real World(tm) corporations of any size always have exit interviews.
Publicus
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
Date: Sunday, December 16, 2001 6:15 PM
Subject: SURVEY Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's panic!
>Ave,
>
>When I was consul back in 1999 I conducted a survey of all Nova Roman
>Citizens. When I take office next year I plan to do the very same
>thing. However, I will state that I do not think it would be valuable
>to have resigned citizens have any input. Only those citizens who are
>"alive" should have a say in the development of Nova Roma.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>otto_von_sitter wrote:
>>
>> *Sorry not to reply with the right message*
>>
>> I think it would be a great idea to have some sort of a survey to
>> fill out for people that resign. Then we could figure out if any
>> problem they had might be fixable. Just saying we have problems and
>> that we need to fix them doesn't do much good unless we know what
>> problem to fix. I forget exactly suggested that idea, I swear my
>> memory must be going, but again, great idea.
>>
>> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ADVERTISEMENT
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: SURVEY Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's panic! |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:15:54 -0800 |
|
Ave,
Yep. I recall that now. Thanks for pointing that out.
Vale,
Sulla
>
> In the Real World(tm) corporations of any size always have exit
> interviews.
>
> Publicus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
> To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
> Date: Sunday, December 16, 2001 6:15 PM
> Subject: SURVEY Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's panic!
>
> >Ave,
> >
> >When I was consul back in 1999 I conducted a survey of all Nova Roman
> >Citizens. When I take office next year I plan to do the very same
> >thing. However, I will state that I do not think it would be
> valuable
> >to have resigned citizens have any input. Only those citizens who
> are
> >"alive" should have a say in the development of Nova Roma.
> >
> >Respectfully,
> >
> >Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
> >otto_von_sitter wrote:
> >>
> >> *Sorry not to reply with the right message*
> >>
> >> I think it would be a great idea to have some sort of a survey to
> >> fill out for people that resign. Then we could figure out if any
> >> problem they had might be fixable. Just saying we have problems
> and
> >> that we need to fix them doesn't do much good unless we know what
> >> problem to fix. I forget exactly suggested that idea, I swear my
> >> memory must be going, but again, great idea.
> >>
> >> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >> ADVERTISEMENT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] The benefits of 'panicking' :) |
| From: |
"rapax@--------" <rapax@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:03:31 +0200 |
|
Salvete...
I want to thank to everyone who have answered my call for a 'panic'!
And since I
got these replies I can say that I've achieved what I wanted.Sometimes
the best wayto
make people talk is to make an 'alarming' statement.My next post will be
headed as
'Save yourselves...!...Roma is burning !' :))
About the resignation of Formosanus I wasn't talking about him at all.My
point is...
we should be open to opposition,different views and just because we
can't accept
someone's thoughts we shouldn't drive him away by harsh words and
sometimes by
invitations of resignation which I find as a childish approach!
The opinions of the resigned cives should be important for us if we
want to correct
our faults and the proposal of Marcus Cassius on that one is a great
step.But I don't
think it will be applied because we are more interested with gaining new
cives and less
with keeping them among us.We are still blaming the ones who have left
instead of
ourselves.Maybe it was their problem or fault...but no harm comes from a
sound
self-criticism I guess!When I see a resignation or a post from an
offended cive I ask if
we as a nation were innocent as the angels or we,too,had some faults ...
Is this a wrong question to ask?
Valete....
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
Civis Novae Romae
* Sapiens dominabitur astris ! *
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Roman Post Cards? |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:20:43 +0100 |
|
Salve Amulie Claudie!
Thank you for supporting the initiative! I think that when all the people who cheered 'hurray' till now, would cooperate, this idea is definately going to work!
And of course, for all my Roman friends, IO SATVRNALIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vale optime in pace deorum!
Caius Puteus Germanicus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/
----- Original Message -----
From: Amulius Claudius Petrus
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Roman Post Cards?
Salve Quintus Cornelius,
This is a great idea! We could have e-cards focusing on our festivals, and
special events. If elected Aediles Curules I will definitely look into this.
My thanks for the inspiration Quintus! I will see what I can do to make this
a reality.
>Michael Loughlin at qccaesar@-------- wrote:
>
> I think posting e-cards and computer themes on the
> NR website could enhance and maybe even appeal to some
> and attract more citizens.
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: speaking of role reversals... |
| From: |
"cassius622" <cassius622@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:46:10 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, mark zona <pitdog2002@--------> wrote:
> Can I be Pontifex Maximus this week?
>
> Vale Bene!
>
> Marcus Antonius Zeno
No, but I'll sell you the rest of my consulship reeeeal cheap... ;)
Vale,
Marcus Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: speaking of role reversals... |
| From: |
mark zona <pitdog2002@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:08:57 -0800 (PST) |
|
Killing myself laughing here!!!!
Vale Bene!
Marcus Antonius Zeno
--- cassius622 <cassius622@--------> wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, mark zona <pitdog2002@-------->
> wrote:
> > Can I be Pontifex Maximus this week?
> >
> > Vale Bene!
> >
> > Marcus Antonius Zeno
>
> No, but I'll sell you the rest of my consulship
> reeeeal cheap... ;)
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Julianus
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: SURVEY Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's panic! |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:37:56 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve Publice,
> In the Real World(tm) corporations of any size always have
> exit interviews.
Indeed; and I already have some things I'm planning to say at mine!
LCSF wrote:
> >When I was consul back in 1999 I conducted a survey of all Nova Roman
> >Citizens. When I take office next year I plan to do the very same
> >thing. However, I will state that I do not think it would be valuable
> >to have resigned citizens have any input.
I think we should make some effort to resolve whatever it was that
drove citizens away. "My province's propraetor is lazy and never
responded to my mail", if a cause for a citizen's departure, is
something we should definitely address.
There are citizens who depart due to a long-standing disagreement
with the leadership of Nova Roma, such as M Apollonius Formosanus.
As have most people who have left for that reason, he wrote a
lengthly statement that made his reasons quite clear.
There are citizens who leave due to a fundamental objection to the
goals of Nova Roma, and perhaps a misunderstanding of our real goals;
an example of this is the citizen who left last month because he
objected to magistrates being required to honor the Roman Gods.
Knowing this, we can avoid such situations in the future by
adding text to the web site's citizenship application making it
clear why we are here and what our goals are.
> > Only those citizens who are
> >"alive" should have a say in the development of Nova Roma.
I do not fully agree. We can change - in small ways - to make it
more likeable to those ex-citizens and future citizens like them.
Some ex-citizens would never be happy unless we completely changed
our nature (going to pure democracy, "demoting" the Gods of Rome,
etc.), and obviously we cannot accomodate them. But when the
reasons for their leaving will not result in a compromise of
our goals, we should take their opinions into consideration.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator, Nova Roma
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/consul
|
| Subject: |
Re: SURVEY Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's panic! |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:58:43 -0800 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: SURVEY Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's panic!
Salve Publice,
> In the Real World(tm) corporations of any size always have
> exit interviews.
Indeed; and I already have some things I'm planning to say at mine!
Sulla: I agree and recognize this.
LCSF wrote:
> >When I was consul back in 1999 I conducted a survey of all Nova Roman
> >Citizens. When I take office next year I plan to do the very same
> >thing. However, I will state that I do not think it would be valuable
> >to have resigned citizens have any input.
I think we should make some effort to resolve whatever it was that
drove citizens away. "My province's propraetor is lazy and never
responded to my mail", if a cause for a citizen's departure, is
something we should definitely address.
Sulla: I concur in this aspect as well. I should have clarified my statement but at the time I was only responding to the aspect of M. Apollonius and other Apollonii's resignation.
There are citizens who depart due to a long-standing disagreement
with the leadership of Nova Roma, such as M Apollonius Formosanus.
As have most people who have left for that reason, he wrote a
lengthly statement that made his reasons quite clear.
Sulla: Yeah it was me! <g>
There are citizens who leave due to a fundamental objection to the
goals of Nova Roma, and perhaps a misunderstanding of our real goals;
an example of this is the citizen who left last month because he
objected to magistrates being required to honor the Roman Gods.
Knowing this, we can avoid such situations in the future by
adding text to the web site's citizenship application making it
clear why we are here and what our goals are.
Sulla: I agree 100%!
> > Only those citizens who are
> >"alive" should have a say in the development of Nova Roma.
I do not fully agree. We can change - in small ways - to make it
more likeable to those ex-citizens and future citizens like them.
Some ex-citizens would never be happy unless we completely changed
our nature (going to pure democracy, "demoting" the Gods of Rome,
etc.), and obviously we cannot accomodate them. But when the
reasons for their leaving will not result in a compromise of
our goals, we should take their opinions into consideration.
Sulla: I agree, if they do not result in a compromise of our goals we should take reasonable measures to resolve the issues.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator, Nova Roma
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/consul
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTN [Religio Romana]: ante diem XVI Kalendas Ianuarias (December 17th) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:22:36 -0000 |
|
ANTONIVS GRYLLVS GRAECVS PONTIFEX OMNIBVS QVIRITIBVS SALVTEM
This is a dies nefastus publicus (NP), a day for special religious
observance in which no legal action can take place.
The Saturnalia, the festival of Saturnus, was perhaps one of the most
popular festivals in ancient Rome, the best of days ("optimus dierum")
according to Catullus [Catullus, Carmina, 14.15]. From the official
religious point of view it was celebrated only on December 17th, the
birthday of the temple of Saturnus in the Forum, at the foot of the Capitol,
dedicated sometime between 432 BC and 381 BC. In practice the festival
extended to as many as seven days (until December 23rd) by the time of
Cicero, as attested by Nonius ("olim exspectata veniunt septem Saturnalia")
[Nonius quoted by Macrobius, Saturnalia, 1.10.3].
Saturnus is the god of seed and sowing (and by extension of semen), and his
name may be derived from 'satus' (sprung from, or sowed). His celebration
came thus quite appropriately in the end of the last sowing of the year.
Saturnus is often considered the consort of Ops, the alimentary resource
that the Romans enjoy after the harvest of Summer. In effect the Opalia
takes place on December 19th, and Macrobius says that originally (before the
Julian calendar) the Saturnalia and the Opalia coincided [Macrobius,
Saturnalia, 1.10.18].
The temple of Saturnus contained a statue of Saturnus, wahich was filled
with oil, apparently as a preservative. The statue was bound in woolen
bonds, which were undone in the day of his festival. Macrobius explains this
as symbolizing the seed which had lain in the womb bursting into the light
in the tenth month (December, according to the old calendar whose first
month was March) [Macrobius, Saturnalia, 1.8.5]. The temple of Saturnus also
contained the state treasury ('Aerarium Saturni'). At this temple, the
Saturnalia opened with a great sacrifice, at which the senators and knights
wore their 'togae'. The sacrifices to Saturnus were performed 'Graeco Ritu'
with uncovered head ('capite aperto') [Plutarch, Roman Questions, 11]. This
may have derived from the identification of Saturnus with the greek god
Kronos, the king of the Golden Age, an aspect of Saturnus which seems to
have been important during the Saturnalia (see below). The sacrifice was
followed a banquet ('convivium publicum', 'convivium dissolutum'), which
apparently anyone could attend, and which seems to have been established in
217 BC [Macrobius, Saturnalia, 1.10.18;Livius, Ab Urbe Condita, 22.1.19].
Livy also adds that a 'lectisternium' was ordered. On this day, less formal
clothes ('synthesis') and soft caps ('pilei') were worn, and people crowded
the streets proclaiming the Saturnalia shouting "Io Saturnalia!".
The Saturnalia was a time of general jollity: shops, law-courts and schools
were shut, while gambling in public was allowed by the Aediles. In the home,
masters waited at meal-time on their servants who briefly were treated as
equals [Accius quoted by Macrobius, Saturnalia, 1.7.36]. Among the family
(including slaves) a mock king ('Saturnalicius princeps') was chosen.
Presents were given: little pottery dolls ('sigillaria') to children
(specially on the 6th and 7th days, which were in fact called Sigillaria),
and wax-candles ('cerei') to friends [Statius, Silvae, 1.6.98 seq.]. Cato
also recommended an additional ration of 3+1/2 'congii' of wine to be given
to his dependants ('vinum familiae') [Cato, De Agricultura, 57].
The month of December is sacred to Vesta.
Di vos incolumes custodiant
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Voting Results: Comitia Plebis Tributa |
| From: |
labienus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:46:17 US/Central |
|
Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD
The rogatores have finished tallying the vote in the Concilium Plebis, and have
reported the results to me. I thank them for their service to the Res Publica
and for the timely fashion in which they performed their duty. I consider the
position of rogator to be one of the most selfless of the magistracies, as it
is a position which offers little glory and demands that those who fill it put
their aspirations for higher office on hold for a year. Avete rogatores!
Multas gratias tibi ago.
CXL (140) plebeians cast votes in the Concilium Plebis, with the following
results:
In the race for tribunus plebis:
Cnaeus Salix Astur - XXXII tribus (32 tribes)
Marcus Arminius Maior - XXVII tribus (27 tribes)
Both have carried more than the minimum XVIII tribus (18 tribes) required by
the law, and therefore have been duly elected to the position. Congratulations
to our new tribuni plebis.
In the race for aedilis plebeius:
Sextus Apollonius Draco - XXVI tribus (26 tribes)
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix - XX tribus (20 tribes)
Caius Sentius Bruttius Sura - XIV tribus (14 tribes)
Sex Apollonius Draco and Ti Apollonius Cicatrix, each having received more than
the necessary XVIII tribus (18 tribes) required by law, are therefore duly
elected to the position. I offer them my congratulations. I thank you, C
Sentius, for running, and I hope you have better luck next year.
Valete
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] IO SATVRNALIA |
| From: |
QFabiusMaxmi@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:02:20 EST |
|
IO SATVRNALIA!
To all of Rome!
Q. Fabius Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: ATTN [Religio Romana]: ante diem XVI Kalendas Ianuarias (December 17th) |
| From: |
"Julilla" <curatrix@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:23:37 -0000 |
|
Io! Io Saturnalia!
In the spirit of the season, please visit the following URL to view a
Saturnalia card for all cives of Nova Roma. The crustula was made for
me by a fellow discipula Latinae, and I can't bear to eat it ;-)
http://www.villaivlilla.com/saturnalia.jpg
And a gift from all of us who live in provincia America
Boreoccidentalis, wallpaper for your PC! (jpg file size 80,094)
http://ambor.fws1.com/images/wallpaper.jpg
Saturnalibus, optimo dierum!
---
curate ut valeatis,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
||||
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let's panic! |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:40:12 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave Rutilianus<
Should we replace good manners and reason with "panic"
just to placate those with bad manners, foul language
and unsubstantiated accusations toward other citizens?
Also, what about the rights of those accused who have
worked so hard to serve NR?
I do not think it is too much to ask that citizens
practice self-control. Those who do so are much more
likely to be heard and taken seriously.
Many citizens, and I have been guilty of this, are
prone to exaggeration and overstating their positions.
If we rely on facts and remove as much of the
emotional nonsense as possble, communication,
understanding and resolution may be the result.
I say, beware of the agendas of those who come forth
with groundless, unsubstantiated accusations.
Vale bene,
Maximina Octavia
> Salvete...
> I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and
> I've seen many worthy
> citizens left for many
> different reasons.There is nothing strange with
> this.What I find
> strange is the
> messages given after their resignation saying
> that there is nothing
> wrong with Nova
> Roma,that the decision was theirs to make,that
> it was their faults that
> drove them
> away
and finally (which is the one I' ve found
> as the most disturbing)
> that there is no
> need to panic!
> If we don't panic..how can we stop these
> resignations?How can
> we correct our
> errors?Will we continue to watch and stay calm
> as many good people
> leave NR?
> So...I say, let's make a change for the
> future and.....
> Let's all 'panic' a little!
>
>
> Valete....
>
> Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
> Civis Novae Romae
>
> * Sapiens dominabitur astris ! *
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Virtutes |
| From: |
"Valerius" <traiania@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:01:10 -0800 |
|
Salvete,
Well I like any good Roman try to live up to them all, but as we all know no one is perfect. On that note here are my top three Roman Virtues:
1 - Dignitas
2 - Pietas
3 - Prudentia.
I would also like to wish all my fellow Roman's a very happy holiday season!
Marcus Traianus Valerius,
Citizen
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
To: NR
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 2:10 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Virtutes
Salvete Quirites
I'd like to sart a new thread since I've read too much about politics here in the last weeks.
I stumbled over two sentences Quintus Fabius Maximus wrote in one of his recent posts:
"How Roman is that?" and "Two things that ancient Rome had that allowed them to conquer the western world, determination and courage."
Our honoured Consul Cassius wrote in his most recent post: "I hope not as well. It would make the most sense for ALL Roman groups to work
on expanding Romanitas overall"
These sentences fitted to something I was wondering about: Which are the most important Roman virtues we should put into practice in our daily lives (NR and non-NR)? I invite you to name the three virtues that seem most important to you. Maybe it's good to check http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/virtues.html before making up one's mind.
Here are my "favourite" virtues:
1 - Pietas (fulfilling one's duties in all respects: social, religious, political (go voting :-) etc. )
2 - Firmitas (after having made up one's mind, not backing down if there arise unforeseen problems)
3 - (Not on the list) A certain willingness to learn from others, for example: The Romans got their alphabet and most of their architecture from the Etruscans and the Greek. When they met foreign cultures, they incorporated what they could need into their own; they knew they weren't perfect, so they always wanted to become better. - I don't know if there is an authentic name for this virtue.
I wish you all a nice weekend!
Valete
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:12:02 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete,
Antonia's idea is completely valid. It would be great
if the new citizen had someone to offer an orientation
period to help the them become familiar and more
comfortable with their new home.
It would be ideal if the Pater or Mater of the gens
would do this. If they are not able, it would be
appropriate to assign someone from familia to mentor
the new family member.
This could be done via live chats and regular e-mail.
It only takes a few moments to send a friendly e-mail
expressing a welcome and follow-ups to monitor the new
citizens progress. If a gens is going to accept a new
member they really should take responsibility for
their smooth incorporation until the new citizen has
time to develop new friends in specific areas that
they are interested in.
This period of courting and starting off on the right
foot may prove to be the efforts that build a solid
foundation of citizenship and it is what we would do
personally in receiving a new family member into our
own homes.
Vale bene,
Maximina Octavia
--- cassius622@-------- wrote:
> Quintus Cornelius Caesar writes:
>
> >Now my question is this: Everytime a new problem
> comes up or a string is created that some don't
> wanna
> talk about why is it they same old new solution:
> lets
> create a new list? That is doing nothing more than
> dodging the issue, throwing it on the back burner,
> or
> isolating it from everything else.
>
> Salve,
>
> Antonia Cornelia Octavia suggested a new list in
> direct response to three
> suggestions of some things we might do to help
> reduce the number of people
> leaving Nova Roma in the future:
>
> 1. Work with new Citizens to help them learn about
> Nova Roma and become used
> to the Roman community;
>
> 2. To work together to make the 'environment' of
> Nova Roma more pleasant (by
> keeping the list respectful and making sure there
> are positive things for
> Citizens to be involved in);
>
> 3. To get more information about why some people
> leave, so that common issues
> might be better addressed.
>
> The first suggestion does kind of call for more
> communication with new
> Citizens, so the suggestion wasn't out of place by
> any means. :)
>
> I'm sure there could also be other ways of getting
> to know new Citizens
> better. Perhaps the Censors could encourage new
> Citizens to introduce
> themselves on the main list, or possibly ask for
> permission to send an
> automatic message introducing them? Not all new
> Citizens are looking for a
> whole lot of contact all at once, but many are.
> There certainly should be a
> way for Citizens to know when someone has newly
> arrived among us... :)
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Fw: Welcome to Nova Roma, Gaius Equitius Gallus |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:24:18 -0500 |
|
Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD
Today 42 new Quirites were added to the Album Civium!
Anyone who is still waiting should contact the gens they have petitioned or
the Censores office.
Below is a copy of the welcome letter that is sent upon approval.
I hope to hear more good news when the election votes are tabulated.
Volo omnibus
IO SATRUNALIA!
>
> Salve et tibi Gratulari!
>
> This is to let you know that your application for Citizenship has been
> received and approved! Congratulations, you are now a new Citizen of
> the New Rome. If you haven't done so already, you might want to
> subscribe to the email mailing list:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
>
> Also, if you would rather only receive official notices, do consider
joining
> the Nova Roma Announcements list:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaAnnounce
>
> It's a terrific way for Nova Romans to keep in touch with each other
> and with what's happening in
> our society. We also have a message board
> http://venus.beseen.com/boardroom/j/17263
>
> and hold a live chat just about every week, and you might also want to
> consider subscribing to The Eagle, our monthly newsletter. Details
> for all of these can be found on the Forum Romanum page of our
> web site.
> http://www.novaroma.org/forum_romanum.html
>
> Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help you get
> started in Nova Roma. The most important aspect is the building of a
> sense of community; we're hoping to keep folks involved rather than
> have them join and then never be heard from again. We will be happy to
> answer any questions you might have, or point you to any resources you
> might be looking for.
>
> Once again welcome and we look forward to hearing from you!
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix et Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
> Censores
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:18:42 -0000 |
|
---Salvete Dominae:
I know, the ever popular *me too* posts, but I allow myself a few a
year, and I am using one of my *me too post* tickets right now!!!
Hear, Hear, Maxi et Antonia!!
Me TOO!! :)
Po
In novaroma@--------, Maximina Octavia <m--------q@--------> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Antonia's idea is completely valid. It would be great
> if the new citizen had someone to offer an orientation
> period to help the them become familiar and more
> comfortable with their new home.
>
> It would be ideal if the Pater or Mater of the gens
> would do this. If they are not able, it would be
> appropriate to assign someone from familia to mentor
> the new family member.
>
> This could be done via live chats and regular e-mail.
> It only takes a few moments to send a friendly e-mail
> expressing a welcome and follow-ups to monitor the new
> citizens progress. If a gens is going to accept a new
> member they really should take responsibility for
> their smooth incorporation until the new citizen has
> time to develop new friends in specific areas that
> they are interested in.
>
> This period of courting and starting off on the right
> foot may prove to be the efforts that build a solid
> foundation of citizenship and it is what we would do
> personally in receiving a new family member into our
> own homes.
>
> Vale bene,
> Maximina Octavia
>
>
> --- c--------us622@-------- wrote:
> > Quintus Cornelius Caesar writes:
> >
> > >Now my question is this: Everytime a new problem
> > comes up or a string is created that some don't
> > wanna
> > talk about why is it they same old new solution:
> > lets
> > create a new list? That is doing nothing more than
> > dodging the issue, throwing it on the back burner,
> > or
> > isolating it from everything else.
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Antonia Cornelia Octavia suggested a new list in
> > direct response to three
> > suggestions of some things we might do to help
> > reduce the number of people
> > leaving Nova Roma in the future:
> >
> > 1. Work with new Citizens to help them learn about
> > Nova Roma and become used
> > to the Roman community;
> >
> > 2. To work together to make the 'environment' of
> > Nova Roma more pleasant (by
> > keeping the list respectful and making sure there
> > are positive things for
> > Citizens to be involved in);
> >
> > 3. To get more information about why some people
> > leave, so that common issues
> > might be better addressed.
> >
> > The first suggestion does kind of call for more
> > communication with new
> > Citizens, so the suggestion wasn't out of place by
> > any means. :)
> >
> > I'm sure there could also be other ways of getting
> > to know new Citizens
> > better. Perhaps the Censors could encourage new
> > Citizens to introduce
> > themselves on the main list, or possibly ask for
> > permission to send an
> > automatic message introducing them? Not all new
> > Citizens are looking for a
> > whole lot of contact all at once, but many are.
> > There certainly should be a
> > way for Citizens to know when someone has newly
> > arrived among us... :)
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Marcus Cassius Julianus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] You have a posty! |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:24:17 -0800 (PST) |
|
--- scriba_forum@-------- wrote:
> Confidential! For Saturnalia Greetings only!
>
>Ave Pompeia Cornelia Strabo,
What a beautiful greeting! Thank you for your
expressions.
I hope that everyone can appreciate this gorgeous
e-card.
Here is hoping you have a wonderful and fulfilling
Holiday Season!
Vale bene,
Maximina Octavia
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Fw: Welcome to Nova Roma, Gaius Equitius Gallus |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:28:24 -0000 |
|
---Salve Censor et Senator L. Equitius Cincinnatus:
That is a wonderful letter. Very congenial and informative.
My commendments to you and Pater Sulla for this.
Pompeia Cornelia
In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@v...> wrote:
> Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD
>
> Today 42 new Quirites were added to the Album Civium!
>
> Anyone who is still waiting should contact the gens they have
petitioned or
> the Censores office.
> Below is a copy of the welcome letter that is sent upon approval.
>
> I hope to hear more good news when the election votes are tabulated.
>
> Volo omnibus
> IO SATRUNALIA!
>
>
> >
> > Salve et tibi Gratulari!
> >
> > This is to let you know that your application for Citizenship has
been
> > received and approved! Congratulations, you are now a new Citizen
of
> > the New Rome. If you haven't done so already, you might want to
> > subscribe to the email mailing list:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
> >
> > Also, if you would rather only receive official notices, do
consider
> joining
> > the Nova Roma Announcements list:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaAnnounce
> >
> > It's a terrific way for Nova Romans to keep in touch with each
other
> > and with what's happening in
> > our society. We also have a message board
> > http://venus.beseen.com/boardroom/j/17263
> >
> > and hold a live chat just about every week, and you might also
want to
> > consider subscribing to The Eagle, our monthly newsletter.
Details
> > for all of these can be found on the Forum Romanum page of our
> > web site.
> > http://www.novaroma.org/forum_romanum.html
> >
> > Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help you get
> > started in Nova Roma. The most important aspect is the building
of a
> > sense of community; we're hoping to keep folks involved rather
than
> > have them join and then never be heard from again. We will be
happy to
> > answer any questions you might have, or point you to any resources
you
> > might be looking for.
> >
> > Once again welcome and we look forward to hearing from you!
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix et Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
> > Censores
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:28:31 -0800 |
|
Avete Omnes.
----- Original Message -----
From: Maximina Octavia
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists...
Salvete,
Antonia's idea is completely valid. It would be great
if the new citizen had someone to offer an orientation
period to help the them become familiar and more
comfortable with their new home.
Sulla: I concur 100%. I also think this is an excellent idea. I wanted to start something like this over 2 years ago...but it was shot down because people were concerned that it resembled too closely the patron/client relationship. I have always favored a patron/client relationship. And, as someone who has clients, I think that this is an excellent way to help people who might not be in one's gens become more knowledgeable about NR. And, they get multiple points of view as well.
It would be ideal if the Pater or Mater of the gens
would do this. If they are not able, it would be
appropriate to assign someone from familia to mentor
the new family member.
Sulla: Once again, I cannot stress how much I concur. I think Paters/Maters should take a very proactive role. It is the duty of a pater/mater to help create and foster an enviornment of participation regardless if it is focused on NR as a whole or within the Gens. This is something I have tired to do within the Gens Cornelia. There are some Cornelians who actively post on the ML...and other lists but there are many more Cornelians who post just within the Gens list. However, let me comment on the patron client relationship. As I have noted above, I do have clients. I treat them like gens members. I try to help them when they have questions, chat with them on AIM. Given them advice when I am asked. Aid them in whatever avenue they want to travel in NR.
This could be done via live chats and regular e-mail.
It only takes a few moments to send a friendly e-mail
expressing a welcome and follow-ups to monitor the new
citizens progress. If a gens is going to accept a new
member they really should take responsibility for
their smooth incorporation until the new citizen has
time to develop new friends in specific areas that
they are interested in.
Sulla: I concur 100%. Gentes should be the focal point of activity within NR.
This period of courting and starting off on the right
foot may prove to be the efforts that build a solid
foundation of citizenship and it is what we would do
personally in receiving a new family member into our
own homes.
Sulla: Once again I concur 100% the Family is the foundation of both Ancient Rome and it should be within Nova Roma as well.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Vale bene,
Maximina Octavia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Welcome Gaius Equitius!! |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:30:26 -0000 |
|
Salve Gai Equiti:
Welcome to the res publica, and I am sure you will feel very much at
home in the illustrious gens Equitia.
Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Public Ritual Question |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:39:12 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete,
The religion that I belong to (Kemet Orthodoxy) has no
problem in conducting live rituals. We have them in
the afternoon for those on the East Coast and Europe
and about 7 in the evening on a different day for
other time zones that find it convenient. This also
gives the adherant a choice of two opportunities to
participate.
It works very well and gives the members a chance to
speak with other members live before and after the
ritual. We have never had less than 25 members at one
time the lowest it has been.
There is one person responsible for maintaining order
and calling upon members who wish to speak during a
formal meeting. Anyone with a comment or question has
only to type in an (*) and the person monitoring calls
upon them when it is their turn. Before and after the
meetings and rituals it is more informal and
spontaneous and some independent chats develop.
We use PIRCH, and it works wonderfully and good
friendships have developed by this means. I hope you
check it out.BTW, everyone is very friendly and I have
never seen any contention or discord displayed during
our chats or rituals or anytime for that matter.
Also, while the main chat is going on people can chat
privately with other members through a separate window
intiated by either party.
If my religion can manage this, so can NR. But, it
might take a little more effort on your part. Of
course, you could always delegate.
I hope you look into this and let me know what you
think.
Vale bene,
Maximina Octavia
--- cassius622@-------- wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> A few Citizens have contacted the Collegium
> Pontificum and asked for the
> Pontiffs to lead "live festivals," where the
> Pontiffs, Priesthood and
> Citizens would gather and do rituals in 'real time'
> communication.
>
> While this would certainly raise the level of
> participation in the Religio,
> I've had serious reservations about the idea.
> Getting people so separated
> geographically together at the same time is a major
> problem. Not only do we
> have various time zones to worry over, but our
> individual schedules vary.
>
> Online meetings must also be more 'prompt' than face
> to face ones. If you're
> ten minutes late to a local gathering due to traffic
> or whatever it's no big
> deal. If for some reason you leave people hanging in
> an empty Internet
> chatroom for that same amount of time, they'll
> probably go surf something
> else.
>
> I personally have a pretty busy schedule, and my
> daily 'window of
> opportunity' for public ritual is pretty brief. I'd
> be pretty usually
> available from 7-9 PM EST during the week but
> there'd be no guarantee on
> weekends at all. I'm sure others have similar
> situations. And, frankly, I've
> never been all that thrilled with the idea of
> stopping a solemn ritual
> periodically to type messages into the computer.
>
> So far, the best solution has been to post rituals
> in the hopes that people
> will do them privately on the same day when they can
> - and post about it
> afterwards. So, the question is: Would folks like to
> see something different
> done? And if so, what?
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:02:56 -0800 (PST) |
|
--- Lucius Equitius <vze23hw7@--------> wrote:
> Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD
>
> Every new citizens is *already* sent a
> *Introductory/Welcome* letter automatically and this
> has been the case for many months now, since early
> in my term as Censor.
Maximina: Yes, then the citizen is completely ignored.
>
> Also, on the "main page"
> http://www.novaroma.org/main.html
> there is a link entitled 'Information for New
> Citizens'
> http://www.novaroma.org/newcitizens/
> ,just below the link for the link
> NEW: Interactive Calendar Upcoming events and
> Religious observances
>
>
> Please, we shouldn't have to spoon feed adults
> everything.
> Anything that a new or prospective citizen needs is
> already displayed.
Maximina: Is this how you treat citizens that have
been adopted into your family? If so, I am happy that
I am not part of your Gens. Is this how you would
treat someone adopted into your real life family?
Where are your manners?
>
> Not every new citizen is going to be "Active", and
> that is fine.
Maximina; New members are active as they are made to
feel welcome. How do you welcome your new members? Do
you say "Welcome" and then forget all about them? Is
this not just selfish lip service?
> Let people be free to choose in what manner they
> will contribute, even if they are just breathing
> they may someday find the time and desire to do
> something in some area. I'll be satisfied if
> citizens Vote, obey the laws and pay tax. Anything
> more is icing on the cake!
Maximina: Who among us does not deserve the icing
too?
Do you honestly think that the ancient Romans would
have treated their family members as you suggest? I
think not. I see the Roman family as affectionate,
supportive and loving. I do not hear that in your
message at all!
These people are not just citizens, they are mine and
your family members!
Vale bene,
Maximina Octavia
>
> IO SATURNALIA!!!
>
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, Amulius Claudius Petrus
> <pkkt@--------> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Pompeia Cornelia et cives,
> >
> > >pompeia_cornelia at trog99@-------- wrote:
> > >
> > > One initiative, however, that was started last
> year, but was never
> > > brought to fruition, was an
> *Introductory/Welcome* letter to each > > new
> citizen, which would serve as a *welcome aboard*,
> but also as > > a means of directing new civites to
> what areas of the website to > > check out ie,the
> message board, the chatroom, religio
> > > information, pertinent webpages, such as that
> Consul Germanicus
> > > prepared.
> >
> > This is a great idea! I think this would solve
> many problems with
> > citizens not being active.
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
labienus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:27:11 US/Central |
|
Salvete
> Sulla: I concur 100%. I also think this is an excellent idea. I wanted
> to start something like this over 2 years ago...but it was shot down because
> people were concerned that it resembled too closely the patron/client
> relationship.
It was shot down because you described it *as* the patronus-cliens relationship.
> And, as someone who has clients...
So, you pay these people's bills and provide them with food? You've liberated
them from slavery or provide them with land to farm? Are they forced by both
custom and law to vote according to your wishes, to accompany you about the
town while you go about your business, and to support you in everything you do
rather than follow their own consciences? Can you sue them and have them sent
outside the pomoerium indefinitely if they don't do these things when you tell
them to? Must they mention you in their will and leave large portions of their
estate to you, depending on circumstances? Will their children become your
clientes, and your children's clientes, and so on?
You do *not* have clientes, Luci Corneli. You have people who are willing to
accept having that term applied to them, but they are *friends*. A cliens was
not a friend, he was a vassal. The patronus-cliens relationship was not a
mentorship, and it was not based upon friendship (though it could be a friendly
relationship, as between business partners). If we want to establish a
mentorship program and call it clientela, fine, but the actual historical
practice deserves to go the way of slavery and the subjugation of women.
> It would be ideal if the Pater or Mater of the gens
> would do this. If they are not able, it would be
> appropriate to assign someone from familia to mentor
> the new family member.
Again, I hold that incoming cives should not be allowed to found a new gens for
at least six months. In this way, all new cives will have a pater or mater
familias. Additionally, leges or censorial edicta (I've put forth suggestions
for these more than once, as have others) should be enacted to reasonably
ensure, to the degree that the state can be involved in such things, that all
patres et matres are active. Mentorship is, after all, the proper role for a
pater or mater familias (and other gentiles!) of a new civis.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:38:26 -0800 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: labienus@--------
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists...
Salvete
> Sulla: I concur 100%. I also think this is an excellent idea. I wanted
> to start something like this over 2 years ago...but it was shot down because
> people were concerned that it resembled too closely the patron/client
> relationship.
It was shot down because you described it *as* the patronus-cliens relationship.
Sulla: Right, it resembled too closely to that ancient Roman Tradition.
> And, as someone who has clients...
So, you pay these people's bills and provide them with food? You've liberated
them from slavery or provide them with land to farm? Are they forced by both
custom and law to vote according to your wishes, to accompany you about the
town while you go about your business, and to support you in everything you do
rather than follow their own consciences? Can you sue them and have them sent
outside the pomoerium indefinitely if they don't do these things when you tell
them to? Must they mention you in their will and leave large portions of their
estate to you, depending on circumstances? Will their children become your
clientes, and your children's clientes, and so on?
Sulla: Nope. But if they needed money I would do what I could to help them. If they needed information inside or outside of NR I would be there to assist them in any way I possibly could. Do I expect them to blindly follow me into the abyss, no.
You do *not* have clientes, Luci Corneli. You have people who are willing to
accept having that term applied to them, but they are *friends*. A cliens was
not a friend, he was a vassal. The patronus-cliens relationship was not a
mentorship, and it was not based upon friendship (though it could be a friendly
relationship, as between business partners). If we want to establish a
mentorship program and call it clientela, fine, but the actual historical
practice deserves to go the way of slavery and the subjugation of women.
Sulla: Senator, they are more than friends. I have many friends and acquaintances in NR. But those individuals who I have asked to become clients are people I trust, respect and rely on. However, let me state I disagree with your judgement that traditional clientship should go the way of slavery et al. I think clientship can be a valued practice if properly regulated. You can make extreme cases like the above..but they are just that. Extreme.
> It would be ideal if the Pater or Mater of the gens
> would do this. If they are not able, it would be
> appropriate to assign someone from familia to mentor
> the new family member.
Again, I hold that incoming cives should not be allowed to found a new gens for
at least six months. In this way, all new cives will have a pater or mater
familias. Additionally, leges or censorial edicta (I've put forth suggestions
for these more than once, as have others) should be enacted to reasonably
ensure, to the degree that the state can be involved in such things, that all
patres et matres are active. Mentorship is, after all, the proper role for a
pater or mater familias (and other gentiles!) of a new civis.
Sulla: As a traditionalist I am opposed to anything that would weaken the power of the paterfamilias. I do not think anyone should be allowed to switch gentes at the drop of a hat. Roma was made up of familias, Nova Roma should also keep a strong family unit as well.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Virtutes |
| From: |
"J. Meuleman" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:37:35 +0100 |
|
Salvete,
Always a returning topic, these virtues.
I frown a little at the appearent obsession with pietas and dignitas here -
although these are important, too - and notice the absence of my own
favourites, which I hereby happily add :):
1. Clementia
2. Comitas
3. Sapientia
Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:43:15 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave L. Cornelius Sulla Felix>
>
> If only all Paters and Maters were even a fraction
as involved as you, NR would be a near paradise. I am
not exaggerating here, the great number of your family
members speaks for itself. You put your family
members and NR first. Even when personal obstacles
appear and you have had many just this year, your
sense of duty to NR and private issues has not
wavered.
You are one of the most involved and active Paters.
You are the most generous with your time even though I
know you have a full time job and other
responsibilities inside and outside of NR.
IMHO, You embody all that a true Pater is. Because of
your caring and affectionate paternal nature and
rational mind, I must say that your family members are
most lucky.
I see this as the major reason that your gens nearly
has the population of a small macronation! :^)
Keep up the great work!
Vale Bene,
Maximina Octavia
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Virtutes |
| From: |
"Marcus Traianus Valerius" <traiania@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:37:54 -0800 |
|
Comitas, would be my number 4 :)
----- Original Message -----
From: J. Meuleman
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Virtutes
Salvete,
Always a returning topic, these virtues.
I frown a little at the appearent obsession with pietas and dignitas here -
although these are important, too - and notice the absence of my own
favourites, which I hereby happily add :):
1. Clementia
2. Comitas
3. Sapientia
Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
labienus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:54:56 US/Central |
|
Salvete
> Sulla: Nope. But if they needed money I would do what I could to help
> them. If they needed information inside or outside of NR I would be there
> to assist them in any way I possibly could.
As any friend should.
> Do I expect them to blindly follow me into the abyss, no.
Clientes would be forced to follow you anywhere.
> Sulla: Senator, they are more than friends. I have many friends and
> acquaintances in NR. But those individuals who I have asked to become
> clients are people I trust, respect and rely on.
That is exactly my definition of a friend.
> However, let me state I disagree with your judgement that traditional
> clientship should go the way of slavery et al. I think clientship can be
> a valued practice if properly regulated. You can make extreme cases like
> the above..but they are just that. Extreme.
No, they are not. The description I gave of the patronus-cliens relationship
was of the normal practice of the system. It was not an example of the extreme
case within that system.
TLF:
> Again, I hold that incoming cives should not be allowed to found a new gens
> for at least six months. In this way, all new cives will have a pater or
> mater familias. Additionally, leges or censorial edicta (I've put forth
> suggestions for these more than once, as have others) should be enacted to
> reasonably ensure, to the degree that the state can be involved in such
> things, that all patres et matres are active. Mentorship is, after all, the
> proper role for a pater or mater familias (and other gentiles!) of a new
> civis.
>
> Sulla: As a traditionalist I am opposed to anything that would weaken the
> power of the paterfamilias. I do not think anyone should be allowed to
> switch gentes at the drop of a hat. Roma was made up of familias, Nova Roma
> should also keep a strong family unit as well.
I've left what I said above your response here for your convenience, Luci
Corneli. Now, please tell me where I mentioned switching gentes or interfering
with the rights of patres matresque familias? Your response is a non sequitur.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:57:02 -0500 |
|
Salvete cives,
>L. Cornelius Sulla Felix at alexious@-------- wrote:
>
>> It would be ideal if the Pater or Mater of the gens
>> would do this. If they are not able, it would be
>> appropriate to assign someone from familia to mentor
>> the new family member.
>
> Sulla: Once again, I cannot stress how much I concur. I think Paters/Maters
> should take a very proactive role. It is the duty of a pater/mater to help
> create and foster an enviornment of participation regardless if it is focused
> on NR as a whole or within the Gens. This is something I have tired to do
> within the Gens Cornelia. There are some Cornelians who actively post on the
> ML...and other lists but there are many more Cornelians who post just within
> the Gens list. However, let me comment on the patron client relationship.
> As I have noted above, I do have clients. I treat them like gens members. I
> try to help them when they have questions, chat with them on AIM. Given them
> advice when I am asked. Aid them in whatever avenue they want to travel in
> NR.
I also agree. Paters, and maters should take this on as a responsibility of
leading a gens. Unfortunately in reality I think very few do. Since I
arrived in Nova Roma I have talked to my mater only a few times. I had to
learn the ropes all by myself without any aide from my gens. Being an active
mater/pater that's active within a gens is definitely reflected by the
number of members. Look at the Cornelii empire we have in this nation, a
perfect example of what an active leader can do to a gens. =)
I am not complaining about being a Claudii, I am honoured to be a member of
this gens. I just feel as if I a missing out on a part of what it is to be
Roman with having such a silent gens and mater. Oh well, I guess that's
life. =)
Valete,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
labienus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:03:37 US/Central |
|
Salvete Amuli Claudi et alii
I generally agree with you, mi Claudi. I just want to quibble over one point.
> Being an active mater/pater that's active within a gens is definitely
> reflected by the number of members.
I am an active pater who is quite active within his gens. Indeed, I interact
affectionately with every member of my gens on a face-to-face basis every day.
And yet, there are still only three Labieni. Quality does not ensure quantity.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Voting Results: Comitia Plebis Tributa |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:08:16 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
I would like to congratulate, Cnaeus Salix Astur, Marcus Arminius Maior,
Sextus Apollonius Draco, and Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix on their success
of being elected.
If all goes well, I look forward to working with our new aedilis plebeius in
the comming year. Hopefully we will be able to expand this office beyond
what it has been in the last few years.
I am sure you will all do our nation proud! Congratulations!
Valete,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
>
> CXL (140) plebeians cast votes in the Concilium Plebis, with the following
> results:
>
> In the race for tribunus plebis:
> Cnaeus Salix Astur - XXXII tribus (32 tribes)
> Marcus Arminius Maior - XXVII tribus (27 tribes)
>
> Both have carried more than the minimum XVIII tribus (18 tribes) required by
> the law, and therefore have been duly elected to the position.
> Congratulations
> to our new tribuni plebis.
>
> In the race for aedilis plebeius:
> Sextus Apollonius Draco - XXVI tribus (26 tribes)
> Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix - XX tribus (20 tribes)
> Caius Sentius Bruttius Sura - XIV tribus (14 tribes)
>
> Sex Apollonius Draco and Ti Apollonius Cicatrix, each having received more
> than
> the necessary XVIII tribus (18 tribes) required by law, are therefore duly
> elected to the position. I offer them my congratulations. I thank you, C
> Sentius, for running, and I hope you have better luck next year.
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations to S. Appollonius Draco |
| From: |
"mariuscorneliusscipio" <nramos@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:09:58 -0000 |
|
Salve mi Draco!
I congratulate you on having been returned as Senior Aedile of the
Plebs in the Comitia Plebis! May your lustrum be a joyful and
fruitful one.
Optime vale,
Marius Cornelius Scipio
Aedilis Curulis (soon to be privatus, thank the Gods!)
IO SATURNALIA!!!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:10:36 -0800 |
|
<SNIP>
TLF:
> Again, I hold that incoming cives should not be allowed to found a new gens
> for at least six months. In this way, all new cives will have a pater or
> mater familias. Additionally, leges or censorial edicta (I've put forth
> suggestions for these more than once, as have others) should be enacted to
> reasonably ensure, to the degree that the state can be involved in such
> things, that all patres et matres are active. Mentorship is, after all, the
> proper role for a pater or mater familias (and other gentiles!) of a new
> civis.
>
> Sulla: As a traditionalist I am opposed to anything that would weaken the
> power of the paterfamilias. I do not think anyone should be allowed to
> switch gentes at the drop of a hat. Roma was made up of familias, Nova Roma
> should also keep a strong family unit as well.
I've left what I said above your response here for your convenience, Luci
Corneli. Now, please tell me where I mentioned switching gentes or interfering
with the rights of patres matresque familias? Your response is a non sequitur.
Sulla: Your statement implied, at least to me that after 6 months a gens member should be allowed to leave to create their own gens. I felt that I had to reiterate my own traditionalistic opinion that paters should be the determining factor in that relationship.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Virtutes |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:19:26 -0800 |
|
Avete Omnes,
I will list some of the Roman Virtues I try to follow. I personally think that dignitas is the sum whole of ones character not exactly a virtue that one can consciously achieve. But here are my top three:
1. Industria
2. Gravitas
3. Fides.
Valete Omnes,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Traianus Valerius
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Virtutes
Comitas, would be my number 4 :)
----- Original Message -----
From: J. Meuleman
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Virtutes
Salvete,
Always a returning topic, these virtues.
I frown a little at the appearent obsession with pietas and dignitas here -
although these are important, too - and notice the absence of my own
favourites, which I hereby happily add :):
1. Clementia
2. Comitas
3. Sapientia
Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
labienus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:29:06 US/Central |
|
Salvete Censor Corneli et alii
> Sulla: Your statement implied, at least to me that after 6 months a gens
> member should be allowed to leave to create their own gens. I felt that I
> had to reiterate my own traditionalistic opinion that paters should be the
> determining factor in that relationship.
Ah. That makes more sense.
Unlike in Roma Antiqua, all cives enter a gens by adoption, rather than by
birth (children are not yet able to become cives). And, I believe that new
cives tend to fall through the cracks more often than is desirable. At least
this far, I think we agree.
Perhaps my suggested system could be reworked as a trial period in which the
new civis belongs to no gens, but is taken under the wing of a pater or mater
familias who would be willing to accept him or her as a gentile. At the end of
the trial period, the civis would then be free to either join the gens of his
or her mentor or to start his or her own gens. Would this change of
terminology (with its attendant legal ramifications) be acceptable to you. The
important thing is to provide a system for mentorship, after all.
Additionally, I would prefer a system which allows an entering civis to make an
informed decision when choosing a gens--especially if you have your way on
forcing gentiles to remain in gentes against their will, which would make the
only easy way to change gentes be to renounce one's citizenship, wait six
months, then re-join in the gens of one's choice.
(I would note that my original system [which doesn't substantially infringe
upon patres et matres' rights IMO], is more historical than the trial period
approach.)
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Lectiones linguae latinae iam incepimus in provincia Argentina |
| From: |
"luciuspompeius" <danielovi@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:31:23 -0000 |
|
Latine / Latin / Latín
Salvete omnes.
In provincia Argentina iam lectiones linguæ latinæ incepimus.
Saturni die aliquot feminæ et plures viri adfuimus. Et omnibus
Saturni diebus novissimas lectiones habebimus. Has eodem loco
eademque hora semper erunt (quattuordecim et dimidia hora). Non sunt
lectiones electronicas.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus.
Propraetor provincialis Argentinæ
Hispanice / Spanish / Español
Salvete omnes
En la provincia Argentina hemos empezado con las lecciones de latin.
El Sábado estuvimos presentes muchos hombres y algunas mujeres. Y
todos los Sábados tendremos nuevas lecciones. Estas siempre se darán
en el mismo lugar y a la misma hora (14:30). No son lecciones
electrónicas.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus.
Propraetor provincialis Argentinæ
Anglice / English / Inglés
Salvete omnes
In provincia Argentina we just begun to have latin lessons. Last
Saturday we were present many men and a few women. And every Saturday
we shall have new lessons. They will be given at the same place and
time (14:30). They are not electronic lessons.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus.
Propraetor provincialis Argentinæ
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:35:01 -0500 |
|
Salve T. Labienus,
> I generally agree with you, mi Claudi. I just want to quibble over one point.
>
>> Being an active mater/pater that's active within a gens is definitely
>> reflected by the number of members.
>
> I am an active pater who is quite active within his gens. Indeed, I interact
> affectionately with every member of my gens on a face-to-face basis every day.
> And yet, there are still only three Labieni. Quality does not ensure quantity.
Hey, I never said you had to have a massive gens like the Cornelii. You have
more members than most plebeian gens. =) I also wasn't very clear on what I
was trying to get across. I meant that those gens that consist only of a
pater, on the most part are dead. If you are an active pater I am sure your
gens will continue to grow, while the gens with inactive leaders will decay.
Having two or three active members can still reflect your dedication.
Cornelii is an extreme example... it just keeps growing, and growing... =)
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Let's panic! |
| From: |
"ulpiavictrix2000" <rapax@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:42:33 -0000 |
|
Salve
No matter how I keep misunderstood about this 'panic' issue
I'm glad that it lead us to some great ideas about the value of
every citizen be it old or new!
That was my purpose in starting a 'reasonable' panic.
Even panic can be useful as you see..And believe me ,I know the
meaning of the word!
Vale
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
>
> Ave Rutilianus<
>
> Should we replace good manners and reason with "panic"
> just to placate those with bad manners, foul language
> and unsubstantiated accusations toward other citizens?
> Also, what about the rights of those accused who have
> worked so hard to serve NR?
>
> I do not think it is too much to ask that citizens
> practice self-control. Those who do so are much more
> likely to be heard and taken seriously.
>
> Many citizens, and I have been guilty of this, are
> prone to exaggeration and overstating their positions.
>
> If we rely on facts and remove as much of the
> emotional nonsense as possble, communication,
> understanding and resolution may be the result.
>
> I say, beware of the agendas of those who come forth
> with groundless, unsubstantiated accusations.
>
> Vale bene,
> Maximina Octavia
> > Salvete...
> > I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and
> > I've seen many worthy
> > citizens left for many
> > different reasons.There is nothing strange with
> > this.What I find
> > strange is the
> > messages given after their resignation saying
> > that there is nothing
> > wrong with Nova
> > Roma,that the decision was theirs to make,that
> > it was their faults that
> > drove them
> > away
> and finally (which is the one I' ve found
> > as the most disturbing)
> > that there is no
> > need to panic!
> > If we don't panic..how can we stop these
> > resignations?How can
> > we correct our
> > errors?Will we continue to watch and stay calm
> > as many good people
> > leave NR?
> > So...I say, let's make a change for the
> > future and.....
> > Let's all 'panic' a little!
> >
> >
> > Valete....
> >
> > Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
> > Civis Novae Romae
> >
> > * Sapiens dominabitur astris ! *
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations ! |
| From: |
"ulpiavictrix2000" <rapax@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:57:36 -0000 |
|
Salvete
Congratulations to our new Tribuni Plebis and Aedilis Plebis!
May Nova Roma grow and prosper with their honest efforts!
And also,my best wishes for Saturnalia and for the coming
Christmas!
Be happy with your friends and families!After all this is what
life is for...
Valete bene
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Let's panic! |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:04:52 -0500 |
|
>Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion at rapax@-------- wrote:
>
Salve,
When I first saw this post and took a look at the title "Let's panic!" I
could not help but to smile. I mean this is a debate on if we should panic
or not. Normally panic starts without deliberation.
Hummm... to panic, or not to panic?
I can see what you are trying to say. Panic is just not what you want to
use. I think concern would be a far better word for what you are trying to
say. Chaos would not help anything. Oh, and I don't think "reasonable", or
"organised" make much sense when applied to panic. I have yet to see a true
"reasonable" panic. Then again, it depends on your point of view of what
reasonable is. =)
Vale,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
> No matter how I keep misunderstood about this 'panic' issue
> I'm glad that it lead us to some great ideas about the value of
> every citizen be it old or new!
> That was my purpose in starting a 'reasonable' panic.
> Even panic can be useful as you see..And believe me ,I know the
> meaning of the word!
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations and Cooperation between the Aediles |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:19:12 +0100 |
|
Salvete Illustrus Sextus Apollonius Draco!
I just want to congratulate You on your wins in the elections! :-)
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Responses |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:27:47 -0500 (EST) |
|
It seems that during my last few days of puttering in my basement, and
haring around the countryside with my wife in a search for donative
gifts for a coming reenactment Ball and Raffle, and just enjoying the
season in general, much has passed me by.
--I am sorry to see the exit of four members of the Appolloni, but I
must say, that I believe that they must be happy in a place that is
apparently more agreeable to their views. I had spent considerable
effort on two different extended occasions in the exchange of E-Mails
with Master Formosanus in an effort to reach some kind of understanding
of hs views and some accomodation with my own. Unfortunately, I was
completely unsuccessful. Now that failure may well be entirely my
fault, as I am not known to be an easy person to deal with, but from
another aspect. I have been much honored by the Citizens of Nova Roma in
placeing me in a position of Magistacy, the Senate, and as a ProConsul /
Govenor of a Province, so in the final analasys, I must agree with the
Honored Consul Julianus, that perhaps the Appolloni who have left us are
happier where they have gone, and his (Formosanus) views were
certainly foriegn to my own. However, I must object to the term "being
kicked out." No-one here has been "kicked out" of anything. Formosanus
and his friends left voluntarily, when in his view, he could do no more.
In fact this is the second time he has resigned his citizenship, after
being asked to return the first time by those he later chose to accuse
of plotting against him and his view of NR. I understand that some
people thought Formosanus to be a clever, insightful, and sincere
gentleman. I saw him as a gadfly, and while he brought items of concern
to the surface, his continuous demogougery and heavy demands, that only
those who were in "his corner" could deal with the problems, if indeed
problems they were or are, negated most of his value here in NR, in my
opinon. I wish to state here and now that I have nothing personal
against any Appoloni past or present, and I freely admit while I did not
see the side of Formosanus that others saw, I am not aways 100% right
either. I just wish that he could have evidenced the willingness to
work with others to reach a compromise, as most of the rest of us have
been forced on occasion to do.
--I had undertaken to contact most of those people who had resigned in
the last wave of distaste for NR, and asked them for thier reasons for
leaving. They were very open with me and I forwarded that information
to the two presently serving Consuls for thier information and use as
they saw fit. However, I would caution that the establishment of "Exit
Reports" should be done with extreme care. The reports are often very
personal, and are most times based on personality diiferences. Further,
release of that kind of information can result in further hard feelings
and further opinions being stated when only one side or the other of the
argument is known. Such, I have found in my own personal efforts at
such an idea. I still retain a very friendly correspondence with a
valued past-member whose purpose for leaving has been discussed at
length within the Senate.
--I tend to agree with Censor Cincinnatus in that Nova Roma is a
Micronation, not a Cub Scout Pack. Adults should not have to be
spoon-fed. The idea here is to contribute as you may to help the
micronation grow. It should not be up to the micronation to entertain
any citizen as though it was some kind of senseless TV Sitcom. If a new
citizen needs to be welcomed more that the welcoming letter, the
extensive and very well done Website, and the encouragement of those
very polite and warmly affectionate NR Citizens (by far the majority)
then I am not sure what else is needed.. If you don't like politics,
then share the information and interest that everyone has in the areas
of NR that suit you. Ask for references, read books, watch movies,
subscribe to archaelogical readouts and share your views. In the words
of an American President, "Ask Not what your Country can do for you, but
rather what you can do for your country!!!" Other great statesmen
around the world, such as W. Churchill, W. Brandt, C. De Gaul, and the
great Italian Hero of the 19th century Garabaldi spoke and lived those
words, and they are as true today as when those men lived. Finally, if
you are not overwhelmed with agreement and praise for your submission or
your comment, don't get mad; you are not nearly as important, as you
may at first suppose (Grin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
--In response to the "Independent E-Zine" I wish you all the success.
I would be pleased to assist as I may, if you will be so kind as to
describe in English (instead of Internet-ese) where I can send a
submission. The "Pilum" which is a Militarium Publication which is
issued quarterly has been undertaken by the Sodalitas Miltarium. A
Provincial Newsletter in the Nova Britannia Province has been undertaken
as well, and the Sodalitas Egressus has opened a website which provides
some aspects of independent research in NR. In addition, other
organizations have conducted song / poem contests, and of course the
"Eagle" which is the NR Newsletter is also available. In addition to
all this there are several people who place on the Main List articles
and stories from thier personal interest list. As Senator Sulla has
indicated, perhaps a review of past submissions would reveal a richer
deposit of such materials than is currently obvious from our "Silly
Season" Main List to new citizens.
--In the discussion of how to make things better in NR, it is absolutely
necessary to step back every so often and observe how your specific
objectons may be harming NR rather than helping her. Further, it may be
that the problem or concern that you raise, may have a better solution
than the one that you offer. I have found in the years that I have
belonged to NR, that there are those who are very interested in doing
what is right for NR, however, it may well take some time to get it done
with the tools that we have available. We are still in the period of
determining a significant amount of energy in the aspect of "tool"
development, as well as, correcting concerns. In my view if you have
generated more than three to five messages addressing the same concern
and have not brought to the Citizens of Nova Roma any new aspects of
that concern, then you are simply having an argument which helps no-one,
and can actually harm the micronation. Either that, or in my opinion,
you need some assistance in stating your case concisely and clearly that
everyone can understand. We currently have a on-going argument
regarding language. I do not understand the problem here, although I
have read both sides until I have decided to not longer bother since I
have heard nothing new in some time. Perhaps if each side of the
argument addressed the other persons arguments in a positive way, we
might see adifferent aspect of ths argument which seems not to do anyone
any service, nor produces anything but bitterness on the Main List.
--In closing, I again offer my best wishes of the season, and of the way
in which you celebrate this part of the year. I have already been
blessed with the kind attentions and generous views of both my
particular friends and those with whom I have a difference of view. To
all, I wish the very best of the Season's Joy and Happiness, and may you
extract from the ideals that you honor that strength and honor (as well
as fun and games!!!!) that will last through the coming of the New Year.
If this is the second time I have made these greetings, you must put it
down to being caught up in the generosity and goodness of my many
friends and aquaintances.
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: No, let's Not. (Was: Let's Panic!) |
| From: |
"radams36" <radams40@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:37:56 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "cassius622" <cassius622@a...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> An interesting post here motivated by the best of intention.
> Hopefully these points can be approached clearly and thoughtfully.
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "rapax@s..." <rapax@s...> wrote:
> > I'm a citizen for nearly a year..and I've seen many worthy
> > citizens left for many different reasons.
>
> Cassius:
> As have we all. However, It is important not to forget the much,
much
> larger number of people who *join* Nova Roma each month, and who
stay
> here.
>
> It is important to remember that ALL organizations have people join
> and leave on a fairly regular basis. We do better than most - our
> ratio of staying vs. leaving is better than 100 to ONE. People
> leaving is certainly not a desirable thing, but we must recognize
> that this is going to happen no matter what we do.
>
>
> Rutilianus:
> >There is nothing strange with this.What I find strange is the
> messages given after their resignation saying that there is nothing
> wrong with Nova Roma,
>
> Cassius:
> There are plenty of things 'wrong' with Nova Roma! There always
have
> been, and there always will be. We're only human, after all. I
firmly
> believe that there are far more RIGHT things with Nova Roma than
> there are wrong. I also must point out that we get more
> things 'right' all the time.
>
> Nova Roma is in almost continual growth and change. We've corrected
a
> large amount of things that were inaccurate or unworkable when Nova
> Roma was started, and that's something that will continue. We also
> continue to expand our infrastructure so that the Citizens of Nova
> Roma can have the most meaningful Roman experience possible.
>
>
> Rutilianus:
> that the decision was theirs to make,that it was their faults that
> > drove them away and finally (which is the one I' ve found as the
> most disturbing) that there is no need to panic!
>
> Cassius:
> People have chosen to leave over a *wide* variety of reasons. Some
> are simply through mistakes or unfortunate circumstances (such as
> someone taking offense at something on the main list, and choosing
to
> hold all of Nova Roma responsible for the words of one other
> Citizen.)
>
> Some folks have left us because they were indeed in error. The most
> common error has been folks joining before they've read the
website,
> and discovering that they don't really want to be part of an
> organization that includes ancient religion, or politics, or
> whatever. That's a situation Nova Roma will probably never be able
to
> eliminate completely.
>
> And, of course, sometimes Nova Roma itself has been at fault. While
> I'm happy to say that this is the *least* common reason why anyone
> has left us - it has happened. Usually the problems are "short
term"
> things that don't get repaired quickly enough - people forgetting
to
> be polite on the main list, or not taking the time to understand
> someone, or a disagreement between a magistrate and a Citizen that
> doesn't get mediated. We can certainly learn from mistakes and work
> to do better in the future... but that is something that takes good
> deliberate action - not panic. ;)
>
>
> Rutilianus:
> > If we don't panic..how can we stop these resignations?How can
> > we correct our errors?Will we continue to watch and stay calm as
> many good people leave NR?
>
> Cassius:
> We *can't* stop resignations. No organization anyone in the world
> ever has, and we won't be able to either. That doesn't mean that we
> shouldn't work to improve things of course.
>
> It seems to me there are several positive steps we might take:
>
> 1. Since we have a *lot* of New Citizens continually coming in, we
> really should treat this as one of our most valuable resources.
There
> is probably more that can be done to make new folks feel welcome,
to
> inform them of all the things NR has to offer, and to help them
solve
> any problems should they arise.
>
> 2. There may well be some improvements that can be made to the
> overall "living environment" in Nova Roma. Keeping the various
> Sodalitas groups active and public so that there are a lot of
things
> to do, working to keep our main list a pleasant place to be, and
> making sure there is a wide variety of discussion on ALL Roman
> subjects would certainly be things we all could participate in.
>
> 3. We might want to get better information on why people leave, so
> that we understand the phenomenon better. Perhaps the Censors could
> even email a short "Resignation Questionnaire" to folks who go, in
> the hopes that some might actually fill it out. Such information
> might well help us to make changes in the future.
>
> No matter what we do, we should work to do it in a positive,
> decisive, and efficient manner. Panic doesn't lend itself well to
any
> of those approaches. ;)
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Consul
Well said, Consul! I agree that Rutilianus certainly has his heart in
the right place, and that any resignation should be followed by some
sober reflection on the part of Nova Roma's administrators and
citizens.
I recommend, though, that every resignation should be viewed in its
own particular context. I would say that Formosanus, for example, had
some things to offer intellectually and was sincere in his desire to
work for Nova Roma, but he was clearly unable to compromise with
others, had his own inflexible ideas of where Nova Roma needed to go,
and constantly had a pedantic and supercilious attitude towards most
of his cives. All this is not to say, 'Good riddance', but more to
say that any discomfort Formosanus felt was largely of his own doing
and often not addressable by the micronation. Ultimately, Formosanus
did have potential that falls now by the wayside, and that's
unfortunate (regardless of who is to blame).
Sokarus? His attitude towards NR's administrators is just baffling to
me, in terms of its uncalled for level of hostility. And I forget the
name of the citizen who resigned because Sokarus could not say
exactly what he wanted, how and when he wanted, but I continue to
support the idea that the list is a place where we all should show
civility and courtesy to each other, and expect it in return. For
someone to defend Sokarus for cursing and threatening courteous
gentlemen like Sulla and Marce Minucie is impossible for me to fathom.
Ultimately, I will echo the earlier advice of Sulla to anyone who has
questions over someone's resignation - search the archive for their
name, so you can read their posts and others' posts regarding them.
Then judge for yourself if and how much their resignation lessens
Nova Roma. I understand your reaction, Rutiliane, but I think it will
be tempered considerably if you do this research. That's not to say
there's no room for improvement, and your suggestions, consul Marce,
sound to me like good ideas.
Vale!
Rufus Iulius Palaeologus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Let's panic! |
| From: |
"ulpiavictrix2000" <rapax@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:44:44 -0000 |
|
Salve Amulius Claudius
I've used the word to get attention...panic can be reasonable
if you know how to 'panic' :)
What can I say?I'm a graduate of the Faculty of English
Literature...
I love to play with words...
Vale bene
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
>
> >Publiu--------ntiu--------tilianu--------xion at rapax@-------- wrote:
> >
>
> Salve,
>
> When I first saw this post and took a look at the title "Let's
panic!" I
> could not help but to smile. I mean this is a debate on if we
should panic
> or not. Normally panic starts without deliberation.
>
> Hummm... to panic, or not to panic?
>
> I can see what you are trying to say. Panic is just not what you
want to
> use. I think concern would be a far better word for what you are
trying to
> say. Chaos would not help anything. Oh, and I don't
think "reasonable", or
> "organised" make much sense when applied to panic. I have yet to
see a true
> "reasonable" panic. Then again, it depends on your point of view of
what
> reasonable is. =)
>
>
> Vale,
>
> "Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
> "Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of
virtues"
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Candidate for Aediles Curules
> Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
>
> Please visit my campaign website at:
> http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
>
> Canada Orientalis Website:
> www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
> --
>
>
>
> > No matter how I keep misunderstood about this 'panic' issue
> > I'm glad that it lead us to some great ideas about the value of
> > every citizen be it old or new!
> > That was my purpose in starting a 'reasonable' panic.
> > Even panic can be useful as you see..And believe me ,I know the
> > meaning of the word!
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:47:22 +0100 |
|
Salve Illustrus Marcus Arminius Maior!
I just want to Congratulate You to your success in the elections! I am sure
that your term and the term of Illustrus Gnaeus Salix Astur also will be a
success! Good Luck, my friend!
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations! |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:47:38 +0100 |
|
Salve Illustrus Gnaeus Salix Astur!
I just want to Congratulate You to your success in the elections! I am sure
that your term and the term of Illustrus Marcus Arminius Maior also will be
a success! Good Luck my friend!
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations!!! |
| From: |
"luciuspompeius" <danielovi@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:49:19 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes.
I wish to express my congratulations to the new elected plebeian
magistrates. I am sure they'll do an overwhelming and excellent job
next year.
Cheers!!!.
Habeatis fortunam optimam novissimi magistratus plebeii!!
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations and Cooperation between the Aediles |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:10:20 +0100 |
|
Salve Illustrus Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix!
I just want to congratulate You on your win in the elections! :-)
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Io Saturnalia & Congrats! |
| From: |
"gaius_minucius_hadrianus" <shinjikun@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:13:33 -0000 |
|
Salvete!
I just wanted to wish everyone a wonderful Saturnalia, and happy
holiday season. It's my first, so I'm very excited! I would also like
to congratulate our newest magistrates, Cnaeus Salix Astur, Marcus
Arminius Maior, Sextus Apollonius Draco and Tiberius Apollonius
Cicatrix on thier election! Ave! Finally I would like to apologize in
advance if I am slow responding to e-mails or posts over the next 2
weeks. I'm away from home over the holidays, so I can't check my e-
mail with any kind of regularity!
Valete,
C. Minucius Hadrianus
Lictor Curiatus
Legate of Massachusetts
Scriba Propraetoris, Nova Britannia
Canidate for Quaestor
ICQ# 28924742
"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Voting Results: Comitia Plebis Tributa |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:16:43 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et save, Claudi Petre.
--- Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> I would like to congratulate, Cnaeus Salix Astur, Marcus Arminius
> Maior,
> Sextus Apollonius Draco, and Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix on their
> success
> of being elected.
Thank you very much, Petre; but I am afraid it is to be blamed on the
citizenry as a whole :-).
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Congratulations! |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:53:56 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Quintiliane.
--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> wrote:
> Salve Illustrus Gnaeus Salix Astur!
>
> I just want to Congratulate You to your success in the elections! I
> am sure
> that your term and the term of Illustrus Marcus Arminius Maior also
> will be
> a success! Good Luck my friend!
Thank you very much, amice.
I was getting worried, for you were congratulating everyone but me :-).
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Saturnalia Ritual |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:55:36 EST |
|
Salvete,
At 6:30 PM EST I have performed the public offering to Saturnus as the
opening rite of the Saturnalia.
To Ianus, Iuppiter and Iuno, wine and incense was offered. To Saturnus a
multigrain cake was offered. I said the prayers to the deities in Latin - no
errors were made during the offerings.
After the offering of grain I prayed to Saturnus in my own words. I asked
that he show favor to Nova Roma during this Saturnalia and for the coming
year, and that Nova Roma be blessed with abundance.
I am pleased to say that the Gods seemed very close during the rite. As I was
making preparations and getting out my tunic and toga I was rather in a hurry
and not particularly in a ritual mood. However, when I got to the Lararium
and lit the lucerna, I was filled with a calm and pleasant mood which made
the rest of the prayers and offering a delight to do.
My thanks to any and all who are also able to perform this offering or
similar rituals during the next week, and I wish everyone a joyous and happy
Saturnalia! :)
IO SATURNALIA!
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Clients |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:56:02 -0500 (EST) |
|
Senator Sulla;
I join with Senator Fortunatus in my disappointment at the usage of the
word "Clients." I am sure that most here are aware of who and what
clients were in Ancient Roma. I have noticed over the past years your
prediliction for using that term when applying to people whom you
describe as "your clients" whether they be Gens Members, friends,
colleages or other.
Since I have never met you, and since I have little to no idea of your
personal, political or Gens organization, I do not challenge your words
regarding your organization in any of the above areas. However, I must
notify you and any others who use the term "client", that I do NOT have
clients. I have never had any, I have none now, nor will I ever have
any. I have some few friends, I have colleagues as granted to me by the
vote of the Citizens of Nova Roma, and by the selection process of the
NR Senate. There are citizens who in different ways assist me in the
things that I wish to do in NR, and I have many people who disagree with
my views. In short, all those above are totally free to disagree with
me, go thier own way at any time, and /or work with me for the
betterment of NR, but NONE of those named above are "clients" or have
any aspect of clients that I am aware of.
I do not beleve that "clients" are necessary for the development of a
political base or structure, and I do not believe that according to our
laws we have a category of citizens called clients. The use of the term
comes from ancient history, when men were dependent upon a "master" for
food, clothing, money and position in return for complete agreement and
subjugation (often f will and spirit), and my view is that in this
modern day we have few if any who will willingly submit to the status of
"client" if they understand the true meaning of the word. Therefore, I
have no need or use of clients, but have every use for those citizens
who are willng to work with me for the good of NR, but certainly not
"for me" by any stretch of the imagination.
This message does ot seek to judge you or those who you name as "your
clients" in any way -- however, I want it clearly understood that I do
not use a "client system" in NR any more than I am an "Oligarch" or that
I am someone who is seeking to behind the scenes promise pivaledges to
newcomers in return for special favors, as myself or some of my
colleagues have been accused of in the past.
This message is simply for the purpose of identifying who I am and who I
am NOT!!!!
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"Living History Australia" <Admin@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:14:46 +1000 |
|
Greetings,
I'm a "new citizen".. still awaiting citizenship in fact, after four or more months of waiting. I'm told I will be enrolled as soon as the elections are over.
Lucius, I would suggest that there definitely needs to be a little more attention paid to prospective and new cives. During the whole time I was waiting, I didn't receive any word from the censors about what was happening. The first couple of emails I sent asking for a status report, went unanswered. Finally I got an answer, which was very friendly and courteous when it finally arrived.
I know that the "dead gens" can cause problems, and indeed, the first gens I attempted to join had an absent pater. After getting an email bounce from him, I took the initiative to seek another gens, which thankfully gave me a prompt and positive response! I wonder, if I hadn't decided to seek out a new gens, would I still be waiting?
The thing is, there was a distinct lack of communication, and I was left more or less "in the dark". I think most people would have simply given up, but I'm stubborn.
Now I know the censors are busy.. and I'm not posting this as a criticism of them at all. Perhaps what Nova Roma needs is a "newcomer greeter", someone who could check the lists of those waiting for citizenship, and sort out the "dead gens" problems.. set a time limit on how long it should take a pater to respond, and if the time elapses, email the prospective member and let them know, they can wait more, or pick another gens. Just let people know what's going on, and I think the drop-out number will drop.
Perhaps the censors need some assistants to do these tasks, and I'd be more than happy to put my hand up to help. I don't want to just complain about things, I would like to take an active role in solving the problem. But make no mistake, there is a problem.
I don't think "spoon-feeding" is necessary or advisable. The difficulties of joining Nova Roma may well serve as a useful filter - as the system stands only the most committed and stubborn and determined prospective cives would ever hang around long enough to get on the rolls.
Perhaps my case wasn't typical. I'm certainly prepared to believe the longer-standing members (which would be ANYONE on the rolls at this point) if they tell me that what happened to me is unusual. But if my experience is not atypical, it would suggest that something needs to be done.
Respectfully,
(the future)
Clodia Maria Omega
The biggest re-enactment event in the Southern Hemisphere..8th & 9th June 2002, Musgrave Park
www.brisbanemedievalfayre.com
Bringing history to life!
www.livinghistory.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Equitius
To: Nova Roma
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:38 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists...
Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD
Every new citizens is *already* sent a *Introductory/Welcome* letter automatically and this has been the case for many months now, since early in my term as Censor.
Also, on the "main page"
http://www.novaroma.org/main.html
there is a link entitled 'Information for New Citizens'
http://www.novaroma.org/newcitizens/
,just below the link for the link
NEW: Interactive Calendar Upcoming events and Religious observances
Please, we shouldn't have to spoon feed adults everything.
Anything that a new or prospective citizen needs is already displayed.
Not every new citizen is going to be "Active", and that is fine.
Let people be free to choose in what manner they will contribute, even if they are just breathing they may someday find the time and desire to do something in some area. I'll be satisfied if citizens Vote, obey the laws and pay tax. Anything more is icing on the cake!
IO SATURNALIA!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:58:55 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites.
I know that I have not been invited to this discussion, but I would
like to add a few comments.
--- labienus@-------- wrote:
<<snipped>>
> > However, let me state I disagree with your judgement that
> traditional
> > clientship should go the way of slavery et al. I think clientship
> can be
> > a valued practice if properly regulated. You can make extreme
> cases like
> > the above..but they are just that. Extreme.
>
> No, they are not. The description I gave of the patronus-cliens
> relationship
> was of the normal practice of the system. It was not an example of
> the extreme
> case within that system.
I am afraid, censor Sulla, that Fortunatus is absolutely right. To say
that clientele was not an unfair system would be like saying that
feudalism is all right, and that slaves had a pretty good time. In
fact, they are all pretty similar.
Remember one thing: "patronus" does not mean "friend", or "mentor"; it
means "master".
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
