| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Clients |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:01:50 -0800 |
|
Ave Senator M. Municius,
That is certainly your right and priviledge to believe the way you desire, I have no desire to impose my way of thinking or beliefs on you. If you do not have clients then that is perfectly fine for you. However, let me clarify, fellow Cornelians are NOT clients. They are family. I just wanted to make certain you are aware of the distinction.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: jmath669642reng@--------
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:56 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Clients
Senator Sulla;
I join with Senator Fortunatus in my disappointment at the usage of the
word "Clients." I am sure that most here are aware of who and what
clients were in Ancient Roma. I have noticed over the past years your
prediliction for using that term when applying to people whom you
describe as "your clients" whether they be Gens Members, friends,
colleages or other.
Since I have never met you, and since I have little to no idea of your
personal, political or Gens organization, I do not challenge your words
regarding your organization in any of the above areas. However, I must
notify you and any others who use the term "client", that I do NOT have
clients. I have never had any, I have none now, nor will I ever have
any. I have some few friends, I have colleagues as granted to me by the
vote of the Citizens of Nova Roma, and by the selection process of the
NR Senate. There are citizens who in different ways assist me in the
things that I wish to do in NR, and I have many people who disagree with
my views. In short, all those above are totally free to disagree with
me, go thier own way at any time, and /or work with me for the
betterment of NR, but NONE of those named above are "clients" or have
any aspect of clients that I am aware of.
I do not beleve that "clients" are necessary for the development of a
political base or structure, and I do not believe that according to our
laws we have a category of citizens called clients. The use of the term
comes from ancient history, when men were dependent upon a "master" for
food, clothing, money and position in return for complete agreement and
subjugation (often f will and spirit), and my view is that in this
modern day we have few if any who will willingly submit to the status of
"client" if they understand the true meaning of the word. Therefore, I
have no need or use of clients, but have every use for those citizens
who are willng to work with me for the good of NR, but certainly not
"for me" by any stretch of the imagination.
This message does ot seek to judge you or those who you name as "your
clients" in any way -- however, I want it clearly understood that I do
not use a "client system" in NR any more than I am an "Oligarch" or that
I am someone who is seeking to behind the scenes promise pivaledges to
newcomers in return for special favors, as myself or some of my
colleagues have been accused of in the past.
This message is simply for the purpose of identifying who I am and who I
am NOT!!!!
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:12:38 -0800 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists...
Salvete Quirites.
I know that I have not been invited to this discussion, but I would
like to add a few comments.
--- labienus@-------- wrote:
<<snipped>>
> > However, let me state I disagree with your judgement that
> traditional
> > clientship should go the way of slavery et al. I think clientship
> can be
> > a valued practice if properly regulated. You can make extreme
> cases like
> > the above..but they are just that. Extreme.
>
> No, they are not. The description I gave of the patronus-cliens
> relationship
> was of the normal practice of the system. It was not an example of
> the extreme
> case within that system.
I am afraid, censor Sulla, that Fortunatus is absolutely right.
SULLA: I am glad you think that Fortunatus is right. I have never tried to say my view is more correct over anyone's elses. I just have my point of view Fortuantus has his view. I try to be more traditionalistic.
To say
that clientele was not an unfair system would be like saying that
feudalism is all right, and that slaves had a pretty good time. In
fact, they are all pretty similar.
Sulla: Seriously, I think there are extremes and then there are moderates. I think we all can recognize that if we implemented the extreme clientship...we would have the abuses. However, I am not advocating that. Senator Labienus knows from past conversations my view of the patron client relationship is a mentoring relationship. Heck, I am pretty damned certain most of those individuals who are my clients probably make more money than me. Yet we are tied together because of common goals, ideals, and direction.
Remember one thing: "patronus" does not mean "friend", or "mentor"; it
means "master".
Sulla: But there is NO reason that a patron cannot be all of those things.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:20:15 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, censor Sulla.
--- "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
> To: novaroma@--------
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists...
>
> <<snipped>>
>
> I am afraid, censor Sulla, that Fortunatus is absolutely right.
>
> SULLA: I am glad you think that Fortunatus is right. I have never
> tried to say my view is more correct over anyone's elses. I just
> have my point of view Fortuantus has his view. I try to be more
> traditionalistic.
It is not a question of being traditionalistic or not. It is a question
of using proper terms. What you are talking about should not be called
"clientele", as it should not be called "slavery". If you want, you can
call it "mentorship". I am afraid it is not a question of opinion.
"Clientele" was what Fortunatus and Audens have said it was. Nothing
else.
> To say
> that clientele was not an unfair system would be like saying that
> feudalism is all right, and that slaves had a pretty good time. In
> fact, they are all pretty similar.
>
> Sulla: Seriously, I think there are extremes and then there are
> moderates. I think we all can recognize that if we implemented the
> extreme clientship...we would have the abuses. However, I am not
> advocating that. Senator Labienus knows from past conversations my
> view of the patron client relationship is a mentoring relationship.
> Heck, I am pretty damned certain most of those individuals who are my
> clients probably make more money than me. Yet we are tied together
> because of common goals, ideals, and direction.
I understand that you are not talking about clientele. You are talking
about mentorship. I think you should try to stick to precise terms,
censor; there is too much confusion already floating around.
> Remember one thing: "patronus" does not mean "friend", or "mentor";
> it
> means "master".
>
> Sulla: But there is NO reason that a patron cannot be all of those
> things.
A "master"? Like in "Uncle Tom's Cabin"? Are you sure?
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Congratulations! |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:24:23 +0100 |
|
>Salvete Quirites; et salve, Quintiliane.
>
>--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> wrote:
>> Salve Illustrus Gnaeus Salix Astur!
>>
>> I just want to Congratulate You to your success in the elections! I
>> am sure
>> that your term and the term of Illustrus Marcus Arminius Maior also
>> will be
>> a success! Good Luck my friend!
>
>Thank you very much, amice.
>
>I was getting worried, for you were congratulating everyone but me :-).
>
>
>=====
>Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
>Gnaeus Salix Astur.
>Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
>Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
>Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
>Lictor Curiatus.
Salve Amice!
There should not be any secret that I hold You as a very special personal
friend and that I am proud of it! :-)
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:25:48 -0800 |
|
Ave,
I am really enjoying this conversation. This is pretty cool. I am glad we can have this dialogue.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists...
Salvete Quirites; et salve, censor Sulla.
--- "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
> To: novaroma@--------
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists...
>
> <<snipped>>
>
> I am afraid, censor Sulla, that Fortunatus is absolutely right.
>
> SULLA: I am glad you think that Fortunatus is right. I have never
> tried to say my view is more correct over anyone's elses. I just
> have my point of view Fortuantus has his view. I try to be more
> traditionalistic.
It is not a question of being traditionalistic or not. It is a question
of using proper terms. What you are talking about should not be called
"clientele", as it should not be called "slavery". If you want, you can
call it "mentorship". I am afraid it is not a question of opinion.
"Clientele" was what Fortunatus and Audens have said it was. Nothing
else.
Sulla: I think its a matter of both. I think mentorship and clientship are kind of blended. One obvsiously is the Mentor (the Patron). And one obviously is the student (the Client). I have not mentioned slavery at all. It was you, Senator Audens and Senator Labienus.
> To say
> that clientele was not an unfair system would be like saying that
> feudalism is all right, and that slaves had a pretty good time. In
> fact, they are all pretty similar.
>
> Sulla: Seriously, I think there are extremes and then there are
> moderates. I think we all can recognize that if we implemented the
> extreme clientship...we would have the abuses. However, I am not
> advocating that. Senator Labienus knows from past conversations my
> view of the patron client relationship is a mentoring relationship.
> Heck, I am pretty damned certain most of those individuals who are my
> clients probably make more money than me. Yet we are tied together
> because of common goals, ideals, and direction.
I understand that you are not talking about clientele. You are talking
about mentorship. I think you should try to stick to precise terms,
censor; there is too much confusion already floating around.
Sulla: The problem is I have not deviated from my term and usage. Senator Labienus ADDED to it. Please go back and check.
> Remember one thing: "patronus" does not mean "friend", or "mentor";
> it
> means "master".
>
> Sulla: But there is NO reason that a patron cannot be all of those
> things.
A "master"? Like in "Uncle Tom's Cabin"? Are you sure?
Sulla: Sorry I have not read Uncle Toms Cabin since I was 16 years old. I am using the word master as in the word Teacher, guide, advisor.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Congratulations! |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:31:32 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, amice Caeso.
--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> wrote:
> Salve Amice!
>
> There should not be any secret that I hold You as a very special
> personal
> friend and that I am proud of it! :-)
Thank you, amice. It was just supposed to be a joke :-).
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:39:47 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, censor Sulla.
--- "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> I am really enjoying this conversation. This is pretty cool. I am
> glad we can have this dialogue.
I am happy to know that. And I also hope we all learn something new
today :-).
<<snipped>>
> It is not a question of being traditionalistic or not. It is a
> question
> of using proper terms. What you are talking about should not be
> called
> "clientele", as it should not be called "slavery". If you want, you
> can
> call it "mentorship". I am afraid it is not a question of opinion.
> "Clientele" was what Fortunatus and Audens have said it was.
> Nothing
> else.
>
> Sulla: I think its a matter of both. I think mentorship and
> clientship are kind of blended. One obvsiously is the Mentor (the
> Patron). And one obviously is the student (the Client). I have not
> mentioned slavery at all. It was you, Senator Audens and Senator
> Labienus.
You have not mentioned slavery. You have mentioned clientele, which is
a pretty close thing. Words have a certain meaning.
> I understand that you are not talking about clientele. You are
> talking
> about mentorship. I think you should try to stick to precise terms,
> censor; there is too much confusion already floating around.
>
> Sulla: The problem is I have not deviated from my term and usage.
> Senator Labienus ADDED to it. Please go back and check.
But your term and usage is, I am afraid to say, *incorrect*. It is like
if I insisted in calling you a "rapist", which by my personal term and
usage could mean "a pretty nice fellow". However, I think you would
object :-).
> > Remember one thing: "patronus" does not mean "friend", or
> "mentor";
> > it
> > means "master".
> >
> > Sulla: But there is NO reason that a patron cannot be all of
> those
> > things.
>
> A "master"? Like in "Uncle Tom's Cabin"? Are you sure?
>
> Sulla: Sorry I have not read Uncle Toms Cabin since I was 16 years
> old. I am using the word master as in the word Teacher, guide,
> advisor.
Perhaps you should think of a different English word that can translate
"patronus" (same meaning, mind you): "owner".
That is, in fact, what "patronus" has become in modern romance
languages.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Congratulations! |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:41:31 +0100 |
|
>Salvete Quirites; et salve, amice Caeso.
>
>--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> wrote:
>> Salve Amice!
>>
>> There should not be any secret that I hold You as a very special
>> personal
>> friend and that I am proud of it! :-)
>
>Thank you, amice. It was just supposed to be a joke :-).
>
>
>=====
>Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
>Gnaeus Salix Astur.
>Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
>Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
>Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
>Lictor Curiatus.
Salve Amice!
I know! ;-)
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:13:08 -0600 |
|
Salvete Censor Corneli omnesque
> Sulla: I think its a matter of both. I think mentorship and clientship are kind
> of blended. One obvsiously is the Mentor (the Patron). And one obviously is the
> student (the Client). I have not mentioned slavery at all. It was you, Senator
> Audens and Senator Labienus.
Here, you are defining clientela to be other than it was. You are not
being either conservative or traditional. Instead, you are trying to
rewrite the dictionary. The relationship between a teacher and a
student is not the relationship a cliens had with a patronus.
If you are going to choose to call a mentorship program clientela, then
it behooves you to admit, up front, that what you are doing is *not* the
ancient practice. And, you must do this often so that people new to
Nova Roma are aware that you are not trying to impose the unfair system
that was clientela on other cives. It is one thing to say, "I am
mentoring a large number of cives." It is quite another to say, "I have
many clientes."
> Sulla: The problem is I have not deviated from my term and usage. Senator
> Labienus ADDED to it. Please go back and check.
This is ridiculous, mi Sulla. Our conversation so far has been quite
similar to:
LCSF: I have many jet airplanes in which I like to ride around the city.
TLF: Jet airplanes? You mean those things with powerful jet engines and
wings?
LCSF: No, no. Those things with two wheels, a two-stroke engine, and
handlebars.
TLF: What you are talking about are motorcycles. A jet airplane is not
a motorcycle.
LCSF: It is, too! They both have engines, wheels, seats, and methods
for steering them. They're pretty much the same.
CnSA: No, TLF is correct. A jet airplane is not a motorcycle.
LCSF: No, I have been consistent in my assertion that jet airplanes are
motorcycles. TLF ADDED to my concept of jet airplanes.
Mi Sulla, whatever your concept of clientela--the one you keep pushing
for in the name of historicity and conservatism--may be, the system of
clientela practiced by the ancients was as I describe it.
> Sulla: Sorry I have not read Uncle Toms Cabin since I was 16 years old.
> I am using the word master as in the word Teacher, guide, advisor.
That is not the definition that applies, however. It means master, as
in master and servant. The cliens served the patronus. A student does
not serve a teacher, and a mentee does not serve a mentor.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
Quicquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Virtutes |
| From: |
Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:22:42 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave,
For myself I'd have to say the three virtues
which I hold the highest are:
1.)"Dignitas"
2.)"Honestas"
3.)"Comitas"--though I may not always show this
maybe I'd even throw in their "virtus"
vale,
Quintus Cornelius Caesar
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:28:31 -0500 |
|
Salvete Clodia Maria et cives,
>Clodia Maria Omega at Admin@-------- wrote:
>
> I know that the "dead gens" can cause problems, and indeed, the first gens I
> attempted to join had an absent pater. After getting an email bounce from him,
> I took the initiative to seek another gens, which thankfully gave me a prompt
> and positive response! I wonder, if I hadn't decided to seek out a new gens,
> would I still be waiting?
This is just further proof that "dead" gentes need to be dealt with. I don't
understand why this has not happened yet. This is obviously a major obstacle
many new citizens must over come. I question how many citizens we are
loosing by giving them a bad first impression...
This is one of those classic discussions that take place every three months
or so. It is amazing nothing much has happened yet. We need to identify
those gentes that have no pater and either find a new one or close the gens.
I know dozens of proposals of how to do this have been discussed over the
last few months. I don't want to get into any of my own complicated
solutions. I just think that this new citizen and many others like her
should not experience these silly obstacles in order to receive Nova Roman
citizenship. This should be looked at as a issue that should be at the
forefront of our agenda as a nation. Sooner is much better than later, every
month we don't correct this problem we lose potential citizens.
Valete,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:30:10 -0800 |
|
Ave,
I have the final edict of that ready to publish. I just need to get the final OK from my colleague..with his changes inputted. Once he approves it...either him or I will publish the Gentes Registration on the Nova Roma main list.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Amulius Claudius Petrus
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists...
Salvete Clodia Maria et cives,
>Clodia Maria Omega at Admin@-------- wrote:
>
> I know that the "dead gens" can cause problems, and indeed, the first gens I
> attempted to join had an absent pater. After getting an email bounce from him,
> I took the initiative to seek another gens, which thankfully gave me a prompt
> and positive response! I wonder, if I hadn't decided to seek out a new gens,
> would I still be waiting?
This is just further proof that "dead" gentes need to be dealt with. I don't
understand why this has not happened yet. This is obviously a major obstacle
many new citizens must over come. I question how many citizens we are
loosing by giving them a bad first impression...
This is one of those classic discussions that take place every three months
or so. It is amazing nothing much has happened yet. We need to identify
those gentes that have no pater and either find a new one or close the gens.
I know dozens of proposals of how to do this have been discussed over the
last few months. I don't want to get into any of my own complicated
solutions. I just think that this new citizen and many others like her
should not experience these silly obstacles in order to receive Nova Roman
citizenship. This should be looked at as a issue that should be at the
forefront of our agenda as a nation. Sooner is much better than later, every
month we don't correct this problem we lose potential citizens.
Valete,
"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] A quick thank you |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus" <pokrock@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:05:25 -0000 |
|
Salve,
Just a quick thank you to Censores Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix et
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus for their quick enrollment of myself as a
citizen of Nova Roma. I had not expected such a quick response right
after an election.
Also wish to thank Marcus Cassius Julianus for "adopting" me into
Gens Cassia.
Vale,
Quintus Cassius Calvus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] HURRAY! |
| From: |
"jagatai" <jagatai@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:15:57 -0500 |
|
Me and mine drank mead and ale, but the sentiment is the same. My brother gave me I Claudius on DVD too.
Gaius Quincius Flamininus
Paterfamilias Gens Quinctia
----- Original Message -----
From: mark zona
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] HURRAY!
Ave,
HEY!
Thats what I'm drinking!
Vale!
Marcus Antonius Zeno
--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
<alexious@--------> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> I SECOND THAT! I still got 3/4 of a Liter of Chanti
> from my dinner with
> Oppius Flaccus....I think I should uncork that
> bottle for a drink as
> well!
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla
>
> mark zona wrote:
> >
> > IO SATVRNALIA!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > That said, I'm gonna have a drink!
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > Marcus Antonius Zeno
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for
> all of
> > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
> > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> >
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] HURRAY! |
| From: |
mark zona <pitdog2002@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:16:59 -0800 (PST) |
|
I just switched to beer, sentiment and all :)
And I Claudius is one of my favorites!
IO SATVRNALIA!
Marcus Antonius Zeno
--- jagatai <jagatai@--------> wrote:
> Me and mine drank mead and ale, but the sentiment is
> the same. My brother gave me I Claudius on DVD too.
>
>
> Gaius Quincius Flamininus
>
> Paterfamilias Gens Quinctia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mark zona
> To: novaroma@--------
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] HURRAY!
>
>
> Ave,
>
> HEY!
>
> Thats what I'm drinking!
>
> Vale!
>
> Marcus Antonius Zeno
>
> --- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> <alexious@--------> wrote:
> > Ave,
> >
> > I SECOND THAT! I still got 3/4 of a Liter of
> Chanti
> > from my dinner with
> > Oppius Flaccus....I think I should uncork that
> > bottle for a drink as
> > well!
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla
> >
> > mark zona wrote:
> > >
> > > IO SATVRNALIA!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > That said, I'm gonna have a drink!
> > >
> > > Vale!
> > >
> > > Marcus Antonius Zeno
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions
> for
> > all of
> > > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
> > http://shopping.yahoo.com
> > > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo!
> > Terms of Service.
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Fw: [BackAlley] The ARCH Ogrearch. |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:26:31 -0800 |
|
Sorry I have to forward this to the ML....and to FORMY himself. Just could
not resist..and he was afraid of little old me! <g>
Vale,
Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dobbins" <john@-------->
To: <BackAlley@-------->
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:25 PM
Subject: [BackAlley] The ARCH Ogrearch.
> Well I've been looking over the new Formyland AKA SOCIETAS VIA ROMANA ,
> and it's a laugh a minute!
>
> Remember all those diatribes about the EVIL Patricians from Formy? Well
> now he's Lucius Silvanius Florus, a Patrican.
>
> Oh and we can't forget how bad OGREARCH are!
>
> Well Formy/Florus is now a Senator, a Consul, AND the Princeps Senatus,
> making our boy the bigest Patrican Ogrearch on Roman Road.
>
> The Formyland Constitution has some nice twists too!
>
> Like this little clause.
>
> (d) Membership in or public alignment with neo-fascist, ultra-rightest,
> ultra-leftist, racist, anti-semitic, totalitarian or terrorist
> organisations is considered adequate reason for denial or withdrawal of
> membership. Failure to mention such affiliation or orientation at time
> of membership application is due cause for summary expulsion by both
> Censores acting collegially if discovered within one year of the
> granting of membership, without right of provocatio. Subsequent evidence
> of such affiliations if discovered shall be reported to the Praetores
> for investigation and possible expulsion trial, or to the Magister Morum
> if one has been appointed.
>
> Isn't that Wonderful? Our Champion of openess is ready to expell those
> who's Macro national politics fail to meet HIS standards! Everyone that
> Formy accused of being far right raise your hand!! You are Expelled!
>
> Here's another Gem for those who remember all the Personal Insults Formy
> heaped on his political foes, and that poison pen resignation letter.
>
> (g) The right to recourse before the Praetores for slander, libel,
> demeaning ridicule or injurious insult taking place under the immediate
> jurisdiction of the Societas, or for misbehaviour of magistratus in an
> official capacity, including provincial and collegial officals, towards
> an individual member or towards a collegium or provincia.
>
> Now who remembers his tirades about Clients?
>
> (h) The right as a new member to select or be appointed by the Censores
> a praeceptor (mentor) from among the more informed and responsible
> members of the Societas to provide personal guidance in learning the
> rules, rights, customs and procedures of the Societas, learning to take
> advantage of the educational, cultural and social opportunities
> available, and in finding concrete ways of making a specific
> contribution to the work of the Societas. This relationship of
> praeceptor/discipulus shall terminate at the end of six months, leaving
> no obligation on either side.
>
> Yep he has Clients in the Constitution, though he uses a different name!
>
> Another goody from the fierce opponent of Taxes!
>
> (b) Ordo Equester (Equestrian Order). The Equestrian Order shall consist
> of members who pay in any given calendar year a donation to the Societas
> equal to three times the normal annual dues owed by them or in the
> absence of decreta assessing dues applicable to them, a sum of not less
> than 100 Euros or other sum determined by decretum of the Comitia
> Generalia. This may include expenses paid for the work of the Societas
> directly by the member, provided that it is documented in a manner
> satisfactory to any relevant decreta, the Quaestores, and the Censores.
> For candidacy purposes the Equestrians stand for office in their
> original order, whether Patrician or Plebeian. An Equestrian for ten
> consecutive years shall become an Equestrian for life regardless of
> future contributions in excess of normal dues, if assessed.
>
> Lets see it's inhumane to ask for a lousy 12 Bucks a year in taxes
> (which ARE allowed by his Constitution) but No problem with selling off
> membership in the Ordo Equester at 100 Euros a year!
>
> Now we can't forget how important is was to have VERY active Tribunes to
> fight those evil OGREARCHS, so now that Formy is a Patrican OGREARCH
> what do we see?
>
> 9. Tribuni Curules (Curule Tribunes). Two tribunes shall be elected by
> the Comitia Generalia to serve a term lasting one year. They must both
> be of the Patrician Order, and shall have the following powers and
> obligations:
>
> (1) To protect the rights of the Patricians;
>
> Now we all remember how important it was to have the Tribunes of the
> Plebs promulgate in the Plebian assembly where those EVIL Patricians
> can't vote, do we see this in Formyland?
>
> Nope they have ONE assembly where Patricians (Like Formy/Florus) can
> vote down Pleblacita proposed by the Tribunes of the Plebs.
>
> All Hail Formy!! Patrician Senator, Consul, Princeps Senatus AND Rex of
> Hypocrits, the biggest Ogrearch of them all.
>
> LSD
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BackAlley-unsubscribe@--------
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Public Ritual Question |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <c_marius_m@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:28:52 -0500 |
|
Salvete Pontifex Marce Cassi et alii
I have long thought that real-time rituals over the internet were worth a
try.
Valete
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Fw: [BackAlley] The ARCH Ogrearch. |
| From: |
mark zona <pitdog2002@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:32:15 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salve!
Thank you Sulla!
I needed a good, hard laugh!
Now that I have recovered, perhaps this is his idea of
Saturnalia role reversal?
Vale!
Marcus Antonius Zeno
--- "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix"
<alexious@--------> wrote:
> Sorry I have to forward this to the ML....and to
> FORMY himself. Just could
> not resist..and he was afraid of little old me! <g>
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
SNIP!
__________________________________________________
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Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Fw: [BackAlley] The ARCH Ogrearch. |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:38:15 -0800 |
|
Oh good....I hope your laughing as much as I am over here....wow this has just been a wonderful day! I must say a nice debate, a much better job....and this! I think it has to be his idea of a Saturnalia role reversal....because its just too funny to be true! Here he has been calling most of the Senators in Nova Roma OgreArchs..and LOOK what he becomes...can we all say hypocrite....I knew we could! <g>
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
<Seriously ROFLMAO>
----- Original Message -----
From: mark zona
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fw: [BackAlley] The ARCH Ogrearch.
Salve!
Thank you Sulla!
I needed a good, hard laugh!
Now that I have recovered, perhaps this is his idea of
Saturnalia role reversal?
Vale!
Marcus Antonius Zeno
--- "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix"
<alexious@--------> wrote:
> Sorry I have to forward this to the ML....and to
> FORMY himself. Just could
> not resist..and he was afraid of little old me! <g>
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
SNIP!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Merry Meet and Merry Part... |
| From: |
Sanctaluna3@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:35:50 EST |
|
Salve,
I wish my name to be removed from the Nova Roma citizenship list. I have
decided, after careful consideration, that Nova Roma is not the "way" for me.
The reasons are as follows:
1. I've joined the Societas Via Romana, and I do not want this to cause any
"conflict
of interest" with either organization. As my dear mother once said,
"Ya can't ride
two horses with one ass!"
2. I simply don't feel comfortable in a group that endorses the Asatru Folk
Assembly,
(they are on your link page, so I presume that you endorse them) as they
are a "racialist" reconstructionist group. Why you do not
endorse the Asatru Troth Ring, which is "universalist", raises serious
concerns for me.
3. After participating, as a new citizen, on the NR list, I wonder who's
doing the
moderating. Not only did I have to deal with rude questions, but also
rude
responses from some members in the NR. The most disturbing factor was
that the only person to address this rudeness was a "mere citizen"! (thanks
to you---Maxima Octavia!) When officials ignore such putdowns and "pissing
contests" it encourages offensive behavior to continue.
4. During the resignations of the past week, there was a reference made to
harrassment of a person with an alternative sexual lifestyle because
they wanted a name change. My spiritual philosophy, together with my
role as a member of the Wiccan clergy means that I will not stay in any group
that would --even by "defacto action"---abuse anyone on the basis of ethnic
background, age, sex, or sexual lifestyle/orientation/preference. "Carrying
out orders" indicates that ethics may be a secondary consideration when it
comes to the "Roman Way" of conducting business. (Which was standard
operating proceedure then, and if NR
wants to "reconstruct" that part Rome's "glory", that's fine for those
that feel
comfortable with it.)
5. Above all, Sulla and Cassius are 100% right. Those that see NR worth
building
shall stay and continue to construct that vision. Those that wish to
create
a Romana based on humanism and universalism shall do so as
well--elsewhere.
There are enough Roman heritage groups around for us to freely join and
build. If there were just one or two, it would be one-dimensional
Romana indeed!
I would like to thank Cassius for his time and attention in helping me
along as a new citizen. I also thank Maxima Octavia for her friendship and
support, may that continue!
NovaRoma has much to be proud of---your membership is large and actively
involved, and you have a beautiful website. The only thing I would
suggest-as I did a few weeks ago- would be to site your primary and secondary
resources at the bottom of each ritual or article that you put on your
official website.
In Wicca, we have a saying, "Merry Meet and Merry Part--and Merry Meet
Again!"
Vale,
In Her Service,
Blessed Be,
Gaia Cassia Fortunata
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
AntoniaCorneliaOctavia <europamoon7@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:37:29 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave Sulli,
Congratulations on helping bring about a resolution
to this apparently ongoing problem. I was, as some
others in Nova Roma were, in the unfortunate situation
of initially contacting a dead gens and only through
perserverence on my part finally able to attain
citizenship. I had hoped that no other civis would
experience this and I now rest assured that the
magistrates have the situation well in hand.
Vale,
Antonia Cornelia Octavia
Scriba Propraetoris di California
--- "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix"
<alexious@--------> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> I have the final edict of that ready to publish. I
> just need to get the final OK from my
> colleague..with his changes inputted. Once he
> approves it...either him or I will publish the
> Gentes Registration on the Nova Roma main list.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Amulius Claudius Petrus
> To: novaroma@--------
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: New Citizens and
> lists...
>
>
>
> Salvete Clodia Maria et cives,
>
> >Clodia Maria Omega at Admin@--------
> wrote:
> >
> > I know that the "dead gens" can cause problems,
> and indeed, the first gens I
> > attempted to join had an absent pater. After
> getting an email bounce from him,
> > I took the initiative to seek another gens,
> which thankfully gave me a prompt
> > and positive response! I wonder, if I hadn't
> decided to seek out a new gens,
> > would I still be waiting?
>
> This is just further proof that "dead" gentes need
> to be dealt with. I don't
> understand why this has not happened yet. This is
> obviously a major obstacle
> many new citizens must over come. I question how
> many citizens we are
> loosing by giving them a bad first impression...
>
> This is one of those classic discussions that take
> place every three months
> or so. It is amazing nothing much has happened
> yet. We need to identify
> those gentes that have no pater and either find a
> new one or close the gens.
> I know dozens of proposals of how to do this have
> been discussed over the
> last few months. I don't want to get into any of
> my own complicated
> solutions. I just think that this new citizen and
> many others like her
> should not experience these silly obstacles in
> order to receive Nova Roman
> citizenship. This should be looked at as a issue
> that should be at the
> forefront of our agenda as a nation. Sooner is
> much better than later, every
> month we don't correct this problem we lose
> potential citizens.
>
> Valete,
>
> "Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est
> mater virtutum"
> "Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is
> often the mother of virtues"
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Candidate for Aediles Curules
> Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
>
> Please visit my campaign website at:
> http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm
>
> Canada Orientalis Website:
> www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
> --
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations Plebian Magistrates 2755 |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:20:23 -0000 |
|
Salvete Omnes:
I would like to join in the congratulations of our newly elected
Tribunii et Aediles Plebius.
You guys will be great. No worries about proper representation for
the Plebian interests, and certainly no worries about having lots of
neat festival celebrations next year!!!
Ave et bene valete!!!
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
NOVA ROMA
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Merry Meet and Merry Part... |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:21:59 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve,
> 2. I simply don't feel comfortable in a group that endorses the
> Asatru Folk Assembly, (they are on your link page, so I presume
> that you endorse them)
You presume wrongly. Any "endorsing" of any group would have to be
done by an act of the Senate, and that has not been done. Linking
to a site is not an "endorsement". It is merely an indication
that a site exists that may be of interest to the reader; nothing
more.
> as they are a "racialist" reconstructionist group.
I'm sure some of our Asatru here will soon attempt to educate
you on this matter.
> Why you do not endorse the Asatru Troth Ring, which is
> "universalist", raises serious concerns for me.
Nova Roma does not "endorse".
> 4. During the resignations of the past week, there was a reference made to
> harrassment of a person with an alternative sexual lifestyle because
> they wanted a name change.
Are you therefore quitting based on hearsay, based upon reading a vile
slander posted by an embittered enemy of Nova Roma, without having done
any research to verify the truth?
Can you actually cite any examples of this "harassment"? Have you read
the mailing list archives from the time this alleged harassment occurred,
or are you basing this solely on whispers in a chat room?
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator, Nova Roma
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/consul
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1760 |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:05:40 -0500 |
|
Salvete Omnibus
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:14:46 +1000
> From: "Living History Australia" <Admin@-------->
> Subject: Re: Re: New Citizens and lists...
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm a "new citizen".. still awaiting citizenship in fact, after four or
more months of waiting. I'm told I will be enrolled as soon as the elections
are over.
Umm, you applied 28 Sept (two and a half months, not "after four or more
months of waiting") to Gens Arcadia, whose Paterfamilias was on some remote
archaeology project in Australia. Much of this time was also due to you
search for an another gens and back to back voting periods.
> Lucius, I would suggest that there definitely needs to be a little more
attention paid to prospective and new cives. During the whole time I was
waiting, I didn't receive any word from the censors about what was
happening.
That's because we were waiting for Paterfamilias approval, or to find out
what *you* were going to do. We didn't have anything to report.
>The first couple of emails I sent asking for a status report, went
unanswered. Finally I got an answer, which was very friendly and courteous
when it finally arrived.
Let me get this right, Omega, You were told you would be enrolled after the
elections or you didn't receive any word from the Censores.... Well, which
is it?
Then you receive an answer that is 'very friendly and courteous' but you
seem to be complaining.
OH, I get it now!! I'm going to go have a few cold ones....
IO SATURNALIA!!!! :-D
IO SATURNALIA!!!
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Merry Meet and Merry Part... |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:00:32 -0000 |
|
---Merry Meet:
Cassi, I wish to question you more specifically on how you feel that
list moderators did not do right by you?
We have close to 500 subscribers, from all walks of life, globally.
There are bound to be differences of opinion, and the like.
Of the many messages, I do not remember an instance where I felt I had
to discipline anyone due to their discussions with you.
Sometimes certain people come across less cordially than others, but
this often has to do with written communication skills, so unless they
are calling you names, accusing you of something false, defaming you
in other means, we do not moderate.
The List Guidelines, contrary to what some people might tell you, are
a bona fide projection of the spirit of public forums as outlined in
the constitution.
Another consideration, is that good old email does not allow us to see
body language, hear voice inflections and the like; keep this in mind,
even in your communications with other members of your new group.
Cassi, if you had any problem with the way anyone treated you on the
list, you could have approached us with your complaint. You never
did.
Priscilla and I post quite regularily,identifying ourselves as
Curatrix and Scriba, respectively, so our addresses were quite
available to you.
I even questioned your remarks about the Asatru. I would have asked
you to clarify your interpretation of this group, had not many today
suggested the viability of asking people why they are leaving, *exit
interviews* and the like. I let it go, but if you were staying with
us, I would likely have asked you to reword it, as I don't think
people of alternate religions should be subject to negative, unfounded
comments about their faith. Tit for Tat, so to speak.
I am sorry that you are leaving, but the help was available to you, in
black and white. The difficulty, as I see it in your case, is that
you failed to ask for it.
Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia
Scriba Curatrix Sermonis
P. VEDIA SERENA
Nova Roma
In novaroma@--------, Sanctaluna3@a... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I wish my name to be removed from the Nova Roma citizenship list. I
have
> decided, after careful consideration, that Nova Roma is not the
"way" for me.
> The reasons are as follows:
>
> 1. I've joined the Societas Via Romana, and I do not want this to
cause any
> "conflict
> of interest" with either organization. As my dear mother
once said,
> "Ya can't ride
> two horses with one ass!"
>
> 2. I simply don't feel comfortable in a group that endorses the
Asatru Folk
> Assembly,
> (they are on your link page, so I presume that you endorse
them) as they
> are a "racialist" reconstructionist group. Why you do
not
> endorse the Asatru Troth Ring, which is "universalist", raises
serious
> concerns for me.
>
> 3. After participating, as a new citizen, on the NR list, I wonder
who's
> doing the
> moderating. Not only did I have to deal with rude questions,
but also
> rude
> responses from some members in the NR. The most disturbing
factor was
> that the only person to address this rudeness was a "mere citizen"!
(thanks
> to you---Maxima Octavia!) When officials ignore such putdowns and
"pissing
> contests" it encourages offensive behavior to continue.
>
> 4. During the resignations of the past week, there was a reference
made to
> harrassment of a person with an alternative sexual lifestyle
because
> they wanted a name change. My spiritual philosophy, together
with my
> role as a member of the Wiccan clergy means that I will not stay in
any group
> that would --even by "defacto action"---abuse anyone on the basis
of ethnic
> background, age, sex, or sexual lifestyle/orientation/preference.
"Carrying
> out orders" indicates that ethics may be a secondary consideration
when it
> comes to the "Roman Way" of conducting business. (Which was standard
> operating proceedure then, and if NR
> wants to "reconstruct" that part Rome's "glory", that's fine for
those
> that feel
> comfortable with it.)
>
> 5. Above all, Sulla and Cassius are 100% right. Those that see NR
worth
> building
> shall stay and continue to construct that vision. Those that
wish to
> create
> a Romana based on humanism and universalism shall do so as
> well--elsewhere.
> There are enough Roman heritage groups around for us to
freely join and
> build. If there were just one or two, it would be
one-dimensional
> Romana indeed!
>
> I would like to thank Cassius for his time and attention in
helping me
> along as a new citizen. I also thank Maxima Octavia for her
friendship and
> support, may that continue!
> NovaRoma has much to be proud of---your membership is large and
actively
> involved, and you have a beautiful website. The only thing I would
> suggest-as I did a few weeks ago- would be to site your primary and
secondary
> resources at the bottom of each ritual or article that you put on
your
> official website.
>
> In Wicca, we have a saying, "Merry Meet and Merry Part--and
Merry Meet
> Again!"
>
> Vale,
> In Her Service,
> Blessed Be,
> Gaia Cassia Fortunata
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Merry Meet and Merry Part... |
| From: |
Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:58:24 -0600 |
|
Avete Omnes,
Long time Citizen Venator scripsit:
Okey Dokey!
Very little Latin in this post. Prepare, one and all, for rudeness, offense and discomfort.
Firstly, the subject line is, in this case, manure. Merriness, does, not, contain, an attack...
Howz about adhering to the Rede, "Sacred Moon?" "An it harm none, Blessed Be," remember that?
I do. I spent quite some time in my religious - philosophic journeys in "Wicca." I do not
adhere to such now, Heathenry is not a Faithway for pacifists.
Yes, my Roman Friends and Acquaintances, I am uncharacteristically and openly angry.
Sanctaluna3@-------- wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I wish my name to be removed [snip]
Venii: One can unsubscribe from the list quite easily with no fanfare at the Yahoo! front
page. One can likewise resign from our dear, New City easily by a private email to the Censors.
> 1. I've joined the Societas Via Romana, [snip]
Venii: Big whoop. Vale in bona fortuna.
> 2. I simply don't feel comfortable in a group...
Venii: Life isn't comfortable, save by our efforts, under the kind regard of the Holy Ones. If
your feelings are so easily hurt, the New Rome (or an unsheltered life outside a convent for
that matter) isn't the place for you.
> ...that endorses the Asatru Folk Assembly, (they are on your link page, so I presume that you endorse them)...
Venii: Being presumptuous is a character flaw I find very strongly in under educated, "feeling"
beings of this type. I have many Thinking Liberals as friends; this person, just acts as a "bur
under the blanket." (The sort of Liberal which embarasses my friends.)
> ...as they are a "racialist" reconstructionist group. Why you do not endorse the Asatru Troth Ring, which is "universalist", raises serious concerns for me.
Venii: To quote a man I quite admire (who is politically to the right of Atilla, and me ,-) -
"Tolerance is not acceptance." A listing of a URL is not an endorsement, except to a feeble
intellect. (Yes, I mean to be insulting. I am getting very tired of putting out these fires,
time and again. No apology will EVER be offered.)
I have no idea who this person ("Sacred Moon") is, but I have been a member of the Asatru Folk
Assembly for many years (as well as other "Folkish" or "Tribalist" organizations). In fact, I
am a member of the AFA's national advisory council (Witan). The founder of the AFA is Steven
McNallen, who has been consciously Heathen since the late 1960's (I have been such, since a
"Shamanic" experience of one of the Norse Gods in July 1989). The AFA (and Steve, and me) are
proud of our northern European Heritage and seek to rediscover the ways and ethics of those
ancestors. But, Pride does not mean hate (see my sigline, please). Do we believe that those of
predominantly Germanic or Nordic or Celtic or Slavic or Baltic or Other Northern Heritage will
"hear" the Call of the Northern Holy Ones most strongly? Sure. Do we believe that ALL tribal
peoples have their own heritages in which to take pride? Yes!!! And, one should look to one's
ancestors, first.
This is labeled as "racialist" (code word for "ray-cyst") by some. The AFA and like groups are
no more Ray-Cyst then my Uncle John. He was a full-blood Mohawk who told me I would never be a
Mohawk, no matter how hard I tried. He pointed me in the direction of re-discovering my
European Heritage. I am a better man because he told me NO.
I have known Steve McNallen, and others in the AFA (and like minded groups), for over a decade.
I spent 5 days conversing with Steve McNallen in August at an encampment. This man emphasizes
his Euro-Heritage (literacy, as well as pride, therein), but if he is a Ray Cyst, I am the most
naive and unobservant "schmuck" on the face of this planet.
The organization which the former Gaia Cassia seeks to offer as a paragon of Universalism
(which, personally, I see as a facet of the Abrahamic religions, All men are my brothers, and so
forth), is *the Troth*, formerly known as *the Ring of Troth* (not "the Asatru Troth Ring"),
members of which, I do claim as good friends, including High Rede (their national council)
members Emeriti. They are not, a "re-constructionist" group per se, as is the AFA, as is Nova
Roma, as are any number of other groups which take Cultural Heritage, Lines of Familial Descent
and/or Literate Knowledge into account. They (the Troth) are, on face, a group founded on good
scholarship and a (mainly) non-"blood quanta" heritage view of Heathen Religious practice. I do
respect their work.
The Curator Araneum may want to consider adding them as an informative link:
http://thetroth.org/
Anybody looking for information on Germanic-Nordic Heathen groups, write me. I have a broad
range of contacts and friends: right, left and center.
Universalism is, I believe, a danger to the dignity and true freedom of the individual, for when
we are all the same: what is there to celebrate, or be excited over, or to be interested in...?
> 3. After participating, as a new citizen, on the NR list, I wonder who's doing the moderating.
Venii: Priscilla Vedia and Pompeia Cornelia, and a fine job they do.
> Not only did I have to deal with rude questions, but also rude responses from some members in the NR.
Venii: My hearts bleeds for thee. (Feel better?) Well, not really bleeds. I don't recall you
EVER posting to the list before. You must not be a memorable human.
> The most disturbing factor was that the only person to address this rudeness was a "mere citizen"! (thanks to you---Maxima Octavia!) When officials ignore such putdowns and "pissing contests" it encourages offensive behavior to continue.
Venii: May the Gods help us be amused at and pity those who can not comfortably live in a world
which contains rude or offensive behavior.
> 4. During the resignations of the past week, there was a reference made to harrassment of a person [snip]
Venii: Tell ya what! I consider the person in question to be a friendly acquaintance (and upon
whose personal mailing list I am). I do not give a hoot over her/his gender identity, some
things are more complicated than appearance sake tells. I know that said person is a Christian
who adheres to an elder way of that Faith, did you? (I have many Christian Friends and
Acquaintances.) She/he left Nova Roma, in part, because the "founder" of the Societas Via
Romana would not let the matter drop after the affected individual stated they were not looking
to hurt Nova Rome over the matter. I also think that she/he does adhere to a Roman way of life,
just as she/he served the US proudly and honestly in military service.
> "Carrying out orders" indicates that ethics may be a secondary consideration when it comes to the "Roman Way" of conducting business. (Which was standard operating proceedure then, and if NR wants to "reconstruct" that part Rome's "glory", that's fine for those that feel comfortable with it.)
Venii: How in the Name of That Which Is Holy do you come to this conclusion??? Are you
insinuating that Nova Romans who do not see the same "Nazis in the shadows" that do you and your
comrades are likewise "fellow travelers?" This is a growing Micronation of over 1000
INDIVIDUALS. Trying to get Nova Romans to be in total agreement is like trying to herd cats, a
job only a God or Goddess could successfully complete.
Just following orders, pfaw!!
> 5. Above all, Sulla and Cassius are 100% right. Those that see NR worth building shall stay and continue to construct that vision. Those that wish to create a Romana based on humanism and universalism shall do so as well--elsewhere.
Venii: Ain't no human 100%. Though, Sulla and Cassius are really good men. They are correct in
stating that those who are ready to perform the hard work of building a real successor to Roma
Antiqua will stay and not run away to their own little fantasy land of modern ideology wrapped
up in a Roman facade.
A Rome based on Modernisms is not Rome, it is Berkeley (California, USA) disguised as Rome. It
is a sham and a falsehood.
> There are enough Roman heritage groups around for us to freely join and build. If there were just one or two, it would be one-dimensional Romana indeed!
Venii: Name 3 others, who are Historically based, and exist without Modernisms, such as
Universalism.
> I would like [snip appreciation to Cassius and M. Octavia, two very fine folk]
> NovaRoma has much to be proud of---your membership is large and actively involved, and you have a beautiful website. The only thing I would suggest-as I did a few weeks ago- would be to site your primary and secondary resources at the bottom of each ritual or article that you put on your official website.
Venii: As you cited your sources, for your innuendo and insult?
> In Wicca, we have a saying, "Merry Meet and Merry Part--and Merry Meet Again!"
>
> Vale,
> In Her Service,
> Blessed Be,
> Gaia Cassia Fortunata
>
In Asatru we have a saying: better be thought a fool, than open your mouth and prove it.
--
=========================================
In Frith under Troth, may the Gods see you!
- Piparskeggr skjaldberi Ullar
AFA - AA - ORV - MSR
Builder for the Future and Traveler along the Folkway
River Wood Samfélag - Vinlandisc Folkvegr
Ældorman and Steward
http://www.river-wood-samfelag.org
Pride is not hate.
You can't tell the difference, we can't help you.
alias
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html
and known as
- Steven P. Robinson
Son of Many Tribes and a Damn, New England Yankee by Birth and Temperament!!!
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations |
| From: |
"cfdflaviusdio" <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:29:08 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quirites,
salvete, plebeian Magistrates!
My heartful congratulations for our newly elected plebeian
magistrates:
Tribuni Plebis Cnaeus Salix Astur and Marcus Arminius Maior
Aedilis Plebis Sextus Apollonius Draco and Tiberius Apollonius
Cicatrix
Iīm sure that your work will give good benefits to our Res Publica.
All the best for you and your work.
Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations |
| From: |
"dianama_2754" <dhartig@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:49:28 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
I would like to extend my congratulations and best wishes to our
newly elected Aediles Plebis Sextus Apollonius Draco and Tiberius
Apollonius Cicatrix as well as the Tribuni Plebis Cnaeus Salix Astur
and Marcus Arminius Maior.
Your efforts will surely be a boon to Nova Roma. Good luck to you all.
Bene valete,
Diana Meridia Aurelia
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists... |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:25:54 +0100 |
|
Ave Lucie Cornelie Sulla, ave Tite Labiene Fortunate et avete omnes!
After reading this thread, I have to make a few remarks. First of all, if people join existing gentes, it is clear that the Claudii, Cornelii Julii and other well known names will attract more than e.g. the Labieni or Putei. This has little to do with what people know of the respective gentes, with where they are located, what patron deities they have or whether the Pater or Mater is very active.
Nevertheless, I am with senator Sulla here when he says that the familia needs to be the basis for NR. There are - I suppose - enough gentes by now, so that the creation of new ones should be discouraged. But please remember that the above criteria of having a well known name still apply. I am quite sure that no matter the engagement Senator Fortunatus may have for his gentiles, his gens is unlikely to grow at very high speed. Can't we have the subscription form - and here I turn my eyes to Marcus Octavius - something like this:
Praenomen: - free to choose -
Nomen gentilis - suggested: gens Cassia -
Cognomen: - free to choose -
The suggested nomen is chosen automatically, out of all the gentes accepting new members, so that all gentes can grow likewise and thus that the mentorship will be a duty for all the patres and matrones.
If the suggested nomen is not accepted, then a list appears with all the available gentes. When the prospect still doesn't want to choose one of them, there is a special button he can press in order to fill out a special form in which he or she can specify the reasons for the creation of a new gens.
Of course it is important to find out which gentes are 'dead', i.e. have no active pater or mater anymore. This can simply be done, everyone who has voted this elections is considered 'active'. Every pater or mater who is not yet a civis for six months is excluded from accepting members (hey this includes me!) because their experience in our republic is too little to adequately answer the new member's questions.
I hope these thoughts will help a bit!
Vale optime in pace deorum!
Caius Puteus Germanicus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla Felix
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists...
<SNIP>
TLF:
> Again, I hold that incoming cives should not be allowed to found a new gens
> for at least six months. In this way, all new cives will have a pater or
> mater familias. Additionally, leges or censorial edicta (I've put forth
> suggestions for these more than once, as have others) should be enacted to
> reasonably ensure, to the degree that the state can be involved in such
> things, that all patres et matres are active. Mentorship is, after all, the
> proper role for a pater or mater familias (and other gentiles!) of a new
> civis.
>
> Sulla: As a traditionalist I am opposed to anything that would weaken the
> power of the paterfamilias. I do not think anyone should be allowed to
> switch gentes at the drop of a hat. Roma was made up of familias, Nova Roma
> should also keep a strong family unit as well.
I've left what I said above your response here for your convenience, Luci
Corneli. Now, please tell me where I mentioned switching gentes or interfering
with the rights of patres matresque familias? Your response is a non sequitur.
Sulla: Your statement implied, at least to me that after 6 months a gens member should be allowed to leave to create their own gens. I felt that I had to reiterate my own traditionalistic opinion that paters should be the determining factor in that relationship.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Merry Meet and Merry Part... |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:41:43 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salve,
Since she shares Formosanus's belief that you should
depart with a Parthian Shot, she deserves to belong to
the group founded by the Patrician Senator, Consul,
Princeps who is a dedicated foe of Ogrearchs.
L. Sicinius Drusus
--- Piparskeggr - Venator
<catamount_grange@--------> wrote:
> Avete Omnes,
>
> Long time Citizen Venator scripsit:
>
> Okey Dokey!
>
> Very little Latin in this post. Prepare, one and
> all, for rudeness, offense and discomfort.
>
> Firstly, the subject line is, in this case, manure.
> Merriness, does, not, contain, an attack...
>
> Howz about adhering to the Rede, "Sacred Moon?" "An
> it harm none, Blessed Be," remember that?
> I do. I spent quite some time in my religious -
> philosophic journeys in "Wicca." I do not
> adhere to such now, Heathenry is not a Faithway for
> pacifists.
>
> Yes, my Roman Friends and Acquaintances, I am
> uncharacteristically and openly angry.
>
> Sanctaluna3@-------- wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > I wish my name to be removed [snip]
>
> Venii: One can unsubscribe from the list quite
> easily with no fanfare at the Yahoo! front
> page. One can likewise resign from our dear, New
> City easily by a private email to the Censors.
>
> > 1. I've joined the Societas Via Romana, [snip]
>
> Venii: Big whoop. Vale in bona fortuna.
>
> > 2. I simply don't feel comfortable in a group...
>
> Venii: Life isn't comfortable, save by our efforts,
> under the kind regard of the Holy Ones. If
> your feelings are so easily hurt, the New Rome (or
> an unsheltered life outside a convent for
> that matter) isn't the place for you.
>
> > ...that endorses the Asatru Folk Assembly, (they
> are on your link page, so I presume that you endorse
> them)...
>
> Venii: Being presumptuous is a character flaw I
> find very strongly in under educated, "feeling"
> beings of this type. I have many Thinking Liberals
> as friends; this person, just acts as a "bur
> under the blanket." (The sort of Liberal which
> embarasses my friends.)
>
> > ...as they are a "racialist" reconstructionist
> group. Why you do not endorse the Asatru Troth
> Ring, which is "universalist", raises serious
> concerns for me.
>
> Venii: To quote a man I quite admire (who is
> politically to the right of Atilla, and me ,-) -
> "Tolerance is not acceptance." A listing of a URL
> is not an endorsement, except to a feeble
> intellect. (Yes, I mean to be insulting. I am
> getting very tired of putting out these fires,
> time and again. No apology will EVER be offered.)
>
> I have no idea who this person ("Sacred Moon") is,
> but I have been a member of the Asatru Folk
> Assembly for many years (as well as other "Folkish"
> or "Tribalist" organizations). In fact, I
> am a member of the AFA's national advisory council
> (Witan). The founder of the AFA is Steven
> McNallen, who has been consciously Heathen since the
> late 1960's (I have been such, since a
> "Shamanic" experience of one of the Norse Gods in
> July 1989). The AFA (and Steve, and me) are
> proud of our northern European Heritage and seek to
> rediscover the ways and ethics of those
> ancestors. But, Pride does not mean hate (see my
> sigline, please). Do we believe that those of
> predominantly Germanic or Nordic or Celtic or Slavic
> or Baltic or Other Northern Heritage will
> "hear" the Call of the Northern Holy Ones most
> strongly? Sure. Do we believe that ALL tribal
> peoples have their own heritages in which to take
> pride? Yes!!! And, one should look to one's
> ancestors, first.
>
> This is labeled as "racialist" (code word for
> "ray-cyst") by some. The AFA and like groups are
> no more Ray-Cyst then my Uncle John. He was a
> full-blood Mohawk who told me I would never be a
> Mohawk, no matter how hard I tried. He pointed me
> in the direction of re-discovering my
> European Heritage. I am a better man because he
> told me NO.
>
> I have known Steve McNallen, and others in the AFA
> (and like minded groups), for over a decade.
> I spent 5 days conversing with Steve McNallen in
> August at an encampment. This man emphasizes
> his Euro-Heritage (literacy, as well as pride,
> therein), but if he is a Ray Cyst, I am the most
> naive and unobservant "schmuck" on the face of this
> planet.
>
> The organization which the former Gaia Cassia seeks
> to offer as a paragon of Universalism
> (which, personally, I see as a facet of the
> Abrahamic religions, All men are my brothers, and so
> forth), is *the Troth*, formerly known as *the Ring
> of Troth* (not "the Asatru Troth Ring"),
> members of which, I do claim as good friends,
> including High Rede (their national council)
> members Emeriti. They are not, a
> "re-constructionist" group per se, as is the AFA, as
> is Nova
> Roma, as are any number of other groups which take
> Cultural Heritage, Lines of Familial Descent
> and/or Literate Knowledge into account. They (the
> Troth) are, on face, a group founded on good
> scholarship and a (mainly) non-"blood quanta"
> heritage view of Heathen Religious practice. I do
> respect their work.
>
> The Curator Araneum may want to consider adding them
> as an informative link:
> http://thetroth.org/
>
> Anybody looking for information on Germanic-Nordic
> Heathen groups, write me. I have a broad
> range of contacts and friends: right, left and
> center.
>
> Universalism is, I believe, a danger to the dignity
> and true freedom of the individual, for when
> we are all the same: what is there to celebrate, or
> be excited over, or to be interested in...?
>
> > 3. After participating, as a new citizen, on the
> NR list, I wonder who's doing the moderating.
>
> Venii: Priscilla Vedia and Pompeia Cornelia, and a
> fine job they do.
>
> > Not only did I have to deal with rude questions,
> but also rude responses from some members in the NR.
>
> Venii: My hearts bleeds for thee. (Feel better?)
> Well, not really bleeds. I don't recall you
> EVER posting to the list before. You must not be a
> memorable human.
>
> > The most disturbing factor was that the only
> person to address this rudeness was a "mere
> citizen"! (thanks to you---Maxima Octavia!) When
> officials ignore such putdowns and "pissing
> contests" it encourages offensive behavior to
> continue.
>
> Venii: May the Gods help us be amused at and pity
> those who can not comfortably live in a world
> which contains rude or offensive behavior.
>
> > 4. During the resignations of the past week,
> there was a reference made to harrassment of a
> person [snip]
>
> Venii: Tell ya what! I consider the person in
> question to be a friendly acquaintance (and upon
> whose personal mailing list I am). I do not give a
> hoot over her/his gender identity, some
> things are more complicated than appearance sake
> tells. I know that said person is a Christian
> who adheres to an elder way of that Faith, did you?
> (I have many Christian Friends and
> Acquaintances.) She/he left Nova Roma, in part,
> because the "founder" of the Societas Via
> Romana would not let the matter drop after the
> affected individual stated they were not looking
> to hurt Nova Rome over the matter. I also think
> that she/he does adhere to a Roman way of life,
> just as she/he served the US proudly and honestly in
> military service.
>
> > "Carrying out orders" indicates that ethics may be
> a secondary consideration when it comes to the
> "Roman Way" of conducting business. (Which was
> standard operating proceedure then, and if NR wants
> to "reconstruct" that part Rome's "glory", that's
> fine for those that feel comfortable with it.)
>
> Venii: How in the Name of That Which Is Holy do you
> come to this conclusion??? Are you
> insinuating that Nova Romans who do not see the same
> "Nazis in the shadows" that do you and your
> comrades are likewise "fellow travelers?" This is a
> growing Micronation of over 1000
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Universalism |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:23:07 +0100 |
|
BlankSalve piperbarbe Honorabile!
I was shocked, like you, by Sacred Moon's attacks on Asatru.
I understand your point on universalism from the point of view of a folkish asatruar. I will clear that point out for those to whom this is not clear: folkish asatruar (or folkish adherents of any other religion) believe that their faith is destined by blood and by cultural heritage, not by an individual choice. This concretely means that only people with Germanic roots can worship the Aesir and Vanir, the gods of the North.
To me, I can understand that Asatru is more against universalism, since the germanic people who have conquered the world had a different vision of ruling it than e.g. the Roman 'devide et impera'. This vision is not worse or better, it is just an historical fact. Once it came to integration, their religion and specifical cultural habits disappeared gradually (e.g. the Vandals in Spain/ Andalusia). But this is not the forum to talk about that.
What worries me is that you name universalism a product of modernism. As you undoubtedly know, stoicism was Rome's practical philosophy. Stoicism is universalist by nature. What makes you think that it would be an error to expect NR to have some universalist aspects in it too?
Note that this is not intended to be a defence of those who are leaving, nor an attack to those who are defending our City. It is just a thought...
Vale optime in pace deorum! Heilsa!
Caius Puteus Germanicus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Nuptual Congratulations! |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:53:37 EST |
|
Salvete,
Although Nova Roma has no formal ties with the "Societas Via Romana" as yet,
I would like to post my, um, congratulations to Formosanus, (a man of 50) who
seems to (really!) have gotten married to Pica, a girl of but 19 years who is
a Citizen of his Societas.
It is both interesting to see such an ancient custom being revived, and
satisfying indeed to see that Patrician, Senator, Consul, and Princeps
Senatus Formosanus is not using his new egalitarian group for any sort of
personal gain or self aggrandisement.
Here's the URL:
http://www.svr.unitron.com.pl/Viaromana/Collegium_Religionis/nuptiae_transcrip
t.htm
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] New Cives |
| From: |
"Living History Australia" <Admin@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:58:08 +1000 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Equitius
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1760
Salvete Omnibus
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:14:46 +1000
> From: "Living History Australia" <Admin@-------->
> Subject: Re: Re: New Citizens and lists...
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm a "new citizen".. still awaiting citizenship in fact, after four or
more months of waiting. I'm told I will be enrolled as soon as the elections
are over.
>Umm, you applied 28 Sept (two and a half months, not "after four or more
months of waiting") to Gens Arcadia, whose Paterfamilias was on some remote
archaeology project in Australia. Much of this time was also due to you
search for an another gens and back to back voting periods.
That was the second application I sent, the first one apparently lost in cyberspace. If that's the first record you have of my application, I'm prepared to take your word for it.
> Lucius, I would suggest that there definitely needs to be a little more
attention paid to prospective and new cives. During the whole time I was
waiting, I didn't receive any word from the censors about what was
happening.
>That's because we were waiting for Paterfamilias approval, or to find out
what *you* were going to do. We didn't have anything to report.
You could have reported to me that you were waiting on Pater approval. I had no idea. I sent away my application and got no answer.. not even a "we got it, here's the process, please be patient" email, which would be a nice thing for prospective members to recieve. Just an idea. The news that applications were at an "all-halt" for elections would have been useful information, too. I would have been happy to recieve an email that said "SHUT UP AND WAIT, YOU IMPATIENT COW!!" - I was relieved to recieve an answer at all by this point! :-)
As for waiting for what "I" would do - I only found out what to do by talking to other Nova Romans in the chat room - they suggested I seek out a new gens, and email the pater before talking to the censors about it, all sensible suggestions - and ones that it would be useful for all new members to find out about from the censors, in reponse to me emailing you more than once asking "what can I do to speed things up??"
>The first couple of emails I sent asking for a status report, went
unanswered. Finally I got an answer, which was very friendly and courteous
when it finally arrived.
Let me get this right, Omega, You were told you would be enrolled after the
elections or you didn't receive any word from the Censores.... Well, which
is it?
Perhaps you should read what I've posted again. I sent a couple of emails, no answer. After repeating my requests more than once, I did get an answer - but not the first time I asked for one, and not in any sort of timely fashion. I'm sure there are perfectly good reasons for this, I'm sure that you are busy. I'm not trying to point the finger here, it's a shame that you are choosing to be so defensive.
>Then you receive an answer that is 'very friendly and courteous' but you
seem to be complaining.
Certianly it was more friendly and courteous than the tone you appear to be adopting now. I hope, that my post won't be read as a foundless complaint, and I hope that those who read it understand that I bring the matter up so that a solution can be found. The news that the dead gens are going to be sorted out is very welcome, and may well solve 99% of the problem.
>OH, I get it now!! I'm going to go have a few cold ones....
IO SATURNALIA!!!! :-D
IO SATURNALIA!!!
So, the usual response to a new member is to dismiss what they have said and then hold them up to ridicule? I've no wish to start fights on my first day as a citizen of Nova Roma, so I'll keep my opinions of your tone to myself. It is, however, becoming clearer to me what the source of this problem might be.
I was very happy and very proud to see my name finally on the list of cives, and I refuse to let my happiness be tainted by the rudeness of another.
I wish everyone a happy Saturnalia.
Clodia Maria Omega
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] The Name Thing |
| From: |
"Marcus Sentius Claudius" <msentius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:01:14 +1100 |
|
Must be election time, same hissy fits and resignations. I accnot see why
some people bother to get involved in the first place.
Marcus Sentius Claudius
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] EDICTVM DE IVRERANDO PROVINCIALE |
| From: |
"salix" <salice@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:31:55 -0000 |
|
EDICTVM DE IVRERANDO PROVINCIALE
Ex Officio Propraetoris Hispaniae
I. El texto que sigue, realizado por el ciudadano Titus Minicius
Marianus, es declarado el juramento oficial de los cargos de la
provincia de Hispania, tanto nombrados como electos. Este texto debe
ser acompaņado por una versión en castellano cuando juren en la lista
provincial y por otra en inglés cuando juren en la lista principal de
Nova Roma.
II. El texto del juramento es el que sigue:
Ego, (praenomen, nomen, cognomen et nomen barbarum) hoc ipso facto
sollemniter IVRO Novae Romae decus defendere et semper pro Novae
Romae
Populo atque Senatu agere. Ut Novae Romae magistratus
ego............... Romae deos deasque colere IVRO in omnibus publicae
vitae temporibus atque Romanas virtutes et publica et privata vita
persequi.
Ego......... Romanam religionem favere et defendere IVRO ut Novae
Romae Reipublicae religionem et numquam agere ita ut eius status
publicae religionis aliquid detrimenti capiat. Praeterea
ego.......... IVRO quam optime fungi officium muneris (el cargo en
genitivo).
Meo Novae Romae civis honore et coram Populi Romani deis atque deabus
et eorum voluntate et favore, munus (cargo en genitivo) ACCIPIO una
cum
iuribus, privilegiis. munera atque officia quae meum munus comportat.
In Hispania Provincia (fecha y aņo romano) ab Vrbe condita.
III. Este edictum se hace efectivo inmediatamente.
Dado el <fecha concreta> del aņo MMDCCLIV a.V.C., en el segundo
consulado de Flavius Vedius Germanicus y Marcus Cassius Julianus
--------------------------------------------
EDICTVM DE IVRERANDO PROVINCIALE
Ex Officio Propraetoris Hispaniae
I. The following text, written by citizen Titus Minicius Marianus, is
declared the official oath for the officers of the province of
Hispania, nominated as well as elected. This text will have to be
accompained with a Spanish translation when swearing on the provincial
list and by an English translation when swearing on the Nova Roma main
list.
II. The oath's text follows:
Ego, (praenomen, nomen, cognomen et nomen barbarum) hoc ipso facto
sollemniter IVRO Novae Romae decus defendere et semper pro Novae
Romae
Populo atque Senatu agere. Ut Novae Romae magistratus
ego............... Romae deos deasque colere IVRO in omnibus publicae
vitae temporibus atque Romanas virtutes et publica et privata vita
persequi.
Ego......... Romanam religionem favere et defendere IVRO ut Novae
Romae Reipublicae religionem et numquam agere ita ut eius status
publicae religionis aliquid detrimenti capiat. Praeterea
ego.......... IVRO quam optime fungi officium muneris (the office in
genitive).
Meo Novae Romae civis honore et coram Populi Romani deis atque deabus
et eorum voluntate et favore, munus (office in genitive) ACCIPIO una
cum
iuribus, privilegiis. munera atque officia quae meum munus comportat.
In Hispania Provincia (Roman date and year) ab Vrbe condita.
III. This edictum becomes effective immediately.
Given on the XV kal. Ian. of the year MMDCCLV a.V.C., during the
second consulship of Flavius Vedius Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Julianus.
Marcus Salix Vigilius, propraetor Hispaniae.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM DE INDEPENDENTIA CVRIAE |
| From: |
"salix" <salice@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:31:57 -0000 |
|
EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM DE INDEPENDENTIA CVRIAE
Ex Officio Propraetoris Hispaniae
I. El texto del Edictum Propraetoricium de Regula Provinciae
Hispaniae es enmendado en los puntos siguientes:
1. El punto II.C.3. deberá leerse como:
"La Curia estará compuesta por aquellos ciudadanos nombrados por la
Curia a través de los mecanismos que la propia Curia establezca y en
base a lo méritos que puedan aportar al servicio de la Provincia y de
la Res Publica."
2. El punto II.C.6. deberá leerse como:
"Los asuntos de la Curia tendrán lugar en la lista oficial de
Hispania y a través de cualquier otro medio de comunicación que la
propia Curia determine."
III. Este edicto se hace efectivo inmediatamente.
Dado el <fecha concreta> del aņo MMDCCLIV a.V.C., durante el segundo
consulado de Flavius Vedius Germanicus y Marcus Cassius Iulianus.
Marcus Salix Vigilius, propraetor Hispaniae.
---------------------------------------------
EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM DE INDEPENDENTIA CVRIAE
Ex Officio Propraetoris Hispaniae
I. The text of the Edictum Propraetoricium de Regula Provinciae
Hispaniae is ammended to read as follows:
1. Paragraph II.C.3. should read:
"The Curia will be composed by those citizens appointed by the Curia
through the mechanisms that the Curia itself shall establish and
according to their future and past services to the Provincia and to the
Res Publica."
2. Paragraph II.C.6. should read:
"The affairs of the Curia will take place in the official mailing list
of Hispania and through any other means of communication established by
the Curia itself."
III. This edictum becomes effective immediately.
Given the XV kal. Ian. of the year MMDCCLV a.V.C., during the
second consulship of Flavius Vedius Germanicus and Marcus Cassius
Iulianus.
Marcus Salix Vigilius, propraetor Hispaniae.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Annual report of Q.Quinctilius Varus Galili Legatus Regionis Germaniae |
| From: |
"varus_galili" <quinctilius.varus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:09:28 -0000 |
|
E DOMO LEGATI GERMANIAE SUPERIORIS
Jahresrapport des Legaten der Regio Germaniae Superioris für das Jahr
2001 (2754 a.u.c.)
Annual report of Q.Quinctilius Varus Galili Legatus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris for the year 2754 a.u.c / 2001 p.C.n. Flavio Vedio
Germanico
Marco Cassio Juliano consulibus.
De rebus anno MMDCCLIV a.u.c. vel DDI p.C.n. Flavio Vedio Germanico M.
Cassio Juliano consulibus gestis commentaria.
24.03.2001
Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili wird vom Senator und Propraetor
Provincia Germania, Caius Flavius Diocletianus, zum Legatus der
Regionis Germaniae Superioris ernannt.
03/24/2001
Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili appointed Legatus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris by C. Flavius Diocletianus Praetor Senator Propraetor
Provinciae Germaniae.
A.d.IX Kal.Apr. Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili a C. Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor Senator Propraetor Provinciae Germaniae Legatus Regionis
Germaniae Superioris factus est.
26.03.2001
Der neue Legatus von Germania Superior ernennt zu Mitgliedern seiner
Regierung:
- Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho zum Praefectus Vicarius
- Tiberius Annaeus Otho zum Praefectus Scribarum
- Roscia Annaea Pia zur Procuratrix
03/26/2001
The new Legatus Germaniae Superioris appoints the following persons to
members of his regional cabinet:
- C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho as Scriba Praefectus Vicarius
- Ti. Annaeus Otho as Scriba Praefaectus Scribarum
- Roscia Annaea Pia as Scriba Procuratrix
A.d.VII Kal.Apr.
Legatus novis Germaniae Superioris advocat in consilium regionis
- C. Annaeum Lucanum Othonem Scribam Praefectum Vicarium
- Ti. Annaeum Othonem Scribam Praefaectum Scribarum
- Rosciam Annaeam Piam Scribam Procuratricem
27.03.2001
Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria Lucullina, die Gattin des Legaten, wird
Bürgerin von Novaroma Regio Germania Superior.
03/27/2001
Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria Lucullina, the Legatus' wife, is declared
Civis NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris.
A.d.VI Kal. Apr. Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria Lucullina Legati uxor
civis
NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris facta est.
28.03.2001
Publius Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus, der Sohn des Legaten, wird
Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania Superior.
03/28/2001
P. Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus, the Legatus' son, is declared Civis
NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae Superioris.
a.d.IV Kal. Apr.
P. Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus Legati filius civis NovaRomanus
Regionis Germaniae Superioris factus est.
12.04.2001
Gaius Novidunus Ferriculus wird Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania
Superior.
Servilius Munatius Plancus wird Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania
Superior.
Tamaris Quinctilia Vara, Tochter des Legaten, wird Bürgerin von
Novaroma Regio Germania Superior.
04/12/2001
C. Noviodunus Ferriculus is declared Civis NovaRomanus Regionis
Germaniae Superioris.
Servilius Munatius Plancus is declared Civis NovaRomanus Regionis
Germaniae Superioris.
Tamaris Quinctilia Vara, the Legatus' daughter, is declared civis
NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris.
a.d.IV Id.Apr.
C. Noviodunus Ferriculus civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris
factus est.
Servilius Munatius Plancus civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris factus est.
Tamaris Quinctilia Vara Legati filia Germaniae Superioris civis
NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris facta est.
13.04.2001
Marcus Reatinus Valerius wird Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania
Superior.
04/13/2001
C. Noviodunus Ferriculus civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris
factus est.
A.d.III Id.Apri.
M.. Reatinus Valerius civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae Superioris
factus est.
08.06.2001
Per Edikt wurde die Colonia Augusta Raurica gegründet:
I. Duumvir ist Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho
II. Duumvir ist Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili
06/08/2001
By edict the Colonia Augusta Raurica is founded.
Senior Duumvir of the Colonia is C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho,
junior Duumvir Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili.
A.d.VI Id.Sext. (Aug.)
Edicto edito Colonia Augusta Raurica condita est,
C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho Duumvir senior,
Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili Duumvir juniorem Coloniae facti sunt.
9./10.06.2001
CUT/Xanten: An den Römertagen in CUT treffen Quintus Quinctilius Varus
Galili und Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho den Senator und Propraetor Caius
Flavius Diocletianus, die Quästrix Lucilla Cornelia Cinna und den
Spieler Quintus Gorgius Facilis Aleator.
06/09/2001 and 06/10/2001
Colonia Ulpia Traiana (CUT, Xanten): During the Roman Days Q.
Quinctilius Varus Galili and C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho met C. Flavius
Diocletianus Praetor Senator Propraetor Provinciae and Lucilla
Cornelia
Cinna Quaetrix and Q. Gorgius Facilis Aleator Mercator and his family.
A.d.V Id.Iun. et proximo
Diebus Romanis in Colonia Ulpia Traiana gestis Q. Quinctilius Varus
Galili et C.Annaeus Lucanus Otho C. Flavium Diocletianum Praetorem
Senatorem Propraetorem omnis Provinciae et Lucillam Corneliam Cinnam
Quaetricem et Q. Gorgium Facilem Aleatorem Mercatorem eiusque familiam
convenerunt.
13.07.2001
Per Edikt wurde Augusta Raurica zur Hauptstadt und zum Regierungssitz
der Regio Germaniae Superioris erklärt.
07/13/2001
By edict the Colonia Augusta Raurica is declared Caput Regionis and
seat
of the regional administration of the Regio Germania Superior.
A.d.III Id.Quinct.(Iul.)
Q. Quinctilius Varus Coloniam edictum edens Augustam Rauricam caput
Regionis Germaniae Superioris sedemque consilii regionis fecit.
30.07.2001
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis, die Nichte des Legaten, wird Bürgerin
von Novaroma Regio Germania Superior.
07/30/2001
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis, the Legatus' niece, is declared civis
NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris.
A.d.II Kal.Iul./Quinct.
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis Legati neptis civis NovaRomana Regionis
Germaniae Superioris facta est.
22.08.2001
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi wird zu einem Scriba Procurator im
regionalen Kabinett ernannt.
08/22/2001
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi is appointed to Scriba Procurator in the
Legatus' regional counsil.
A.d.XI Kal.Sept.
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi Scriba Procurator factus est atque in
consilium Legati vocatus.
25.08.2001
Georgius Durmius Silesius wird Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania
Superior.
08/25/2001
Georgius Durmius Silesius is declared civis NovaRomanus Regionis
Germaniae Superioris.
A.d.VIII Kal.Sept.
Georgius Durmius Silesius civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris factus est.
26.08.2001
Römerfest in unserer Hauptstadt Augusta Raurica. Caius Annaeus Lucanus
Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili, Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria
Lucullina, Tamaris Quinctilia Vara, Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis,
Publius Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus, Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Roscia
Annaea Pia und Quintus Gorgius Facilis Aleator nehmen aktiv am Fest
teil. Sie treffen Georgius Durmius Silesius.
08/26/2001
Roman festival in our capital Colonia Augusta Raurica. C. Annaeus
Lucanus Otho, Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili, Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria
Lucullina, Tamaris Quinctilia Vara, Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis, P.
Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus, Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Roscia Annaea
Pia
and Quintus Gorgius Facilis Aleator take part in the festival. The
meet
Georgius Durmius Silesius.
A.d.VII Kal.Sept.
Diebus festis in Colonia Augusta Ruarica capite nostro peractis C.
Annaeus Lucanus Otho Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili Susanna Quinctilia
Fornaria Lucullina Tamaris Quinctilia Vara Caesonia Quinctilia Cella
Isis P. Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus Ti. Annaeus Otho Roscia Annaea
Pia Quintus Gorgius Facilis Aleator participes Georgium Durmium
Silesium
convenerunt.
07.09.2001
Museumseinweihung in Hauterive bei Neuchâtel. Caius Annaeus Lucanus
Otho, Tiberius Annaea Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili und
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis sind dabei.
Grosse Ehre für Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili und Tiberius Annaeus
Otho. Sie dürfen die Ehrengarde für die schweizerische Landesmutter,
Frau Bundesrätin Ruth Dreifuss stellen.
09/07/2001
Opening ceremony of the Museum in Hauterive near Neuchâtel. C. Annaeus
Lucanus Otho, Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili and
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis take part.
Great honor conferred to C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho and Q. Quinctilius
Varus Galili, who serve as Guard of Honor for the matrone of
Switzerland, Ms. Ruth Dreifuss, member of the Swiss Bundesrat.
Non.Iul.
C. Annaeo Lucano Othone Tib. Annaeo Othone Q. Quinctilio Varo Galili
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Iside participibus musaeum in Alta Ripa
prope
Castellum Novum sita dedicatum est.
Magna honore affecti C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho Q. Quinctilius Varus
Galili
custodiam honoris prosecuti sunt Ruth Dreifuss matrem patriae
principem
consilii Confoederationis Helveticae.
21.08.2001
Museumseröffnung in Badenweiler. Mit dabei sind Caius Annaeus Lucanus
Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili, Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Tamaris
Quinctilia Vara und Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis.
08/21/2001
Opening ceremony of the Museum in Badenweiler. C. Annaeus Lucanus
Otho,
Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili, Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Tamaris Quinctilia
Vara and Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis take part.
A.d.XII Kal.Sept.
C. Annaeo Lucano Othone Q. Quinctilio Varo Galili Ti. Annaeo Othone
Tamaris Quinctilia Vara Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Iside participibus
musaeum in Vico Badense dedicatum est.
26.09.2001
Procurator Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi meldet die Geburt seiner
jüngsten Tochter Lucilla Titanica Catirova.
09/26/2001
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi announces the birth of his youngest
daughter Lucilla Titanica Catirova.
A.d.VI Kal.Oct.
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi Lucillam Titanicam Catirovam novissimam
filiam natam esse nuntiavit.
06.10.2001
ROMEC. Römertage im Römermuseum Brugg-Windisch. Es nehmen aktiv teil
Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili, Susanna
Quinctilia Fornaria Lucullina und Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis.
10/06/2001
Roman Days in the Roman Museum Brugg-Windisch. Caius Annaeus Lucanus
Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili, Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria
Lucullina and Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis take part.
Pridie Non.Oct.
Diebus Romanis in musaeo in Vindonissa sito peractis C.
Annaeus Lucanus Otho Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili Susanna Quinctilia
Fornaria Lucullina Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis participes fuerunt.
27.11.2001
Diana Media Aurelia, Scriba Praetoria Germania und Bürgerin der Regio
Germaniae Superioris, wird vom Senator und Propraetor Provincia
Germania, Caius Flavius Diocletianus, zur Procuratrix im Range eines
Legaten ernannt.
11/27/2001
Diana Meridia Aurelia Scriba Praetoria and civis NovaRomana Regionis
Germaniae Superioris is appointed Legata Procuratrix by C. Flavius
Diocletianus Praetor Senator Propraetor.
A.d.V Kal.Dec.
Diana Meridia Aurelia Scriba Praetoria civis NovaRomana in Regione
Germania Superiore habitans Legata Procuratrix facta est a C. Flavio
Diocletiano Praetore Senatore Propraetore omnis Provinciae.
Bevölkerungswachstum im Berichtsjahr seit meinem Amtsantritt am
24.03.2001: 8 Bürger/Innen
Increase of population during the reported year since I assumed office
03/24/2001: 8 Cives
Civitas Regionis me legato VIII civibus augebatur.
Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili
Legatus Germaniae Superioris, unter der erfolgreichen Herrschaft des
verehrten Caius Flavius Diocletianus, Praetor, Propraetor und Senator
der Provincia Germania und II. Duumvir der Colonia Augusta Raurica, im
Kabinett des hochgeachteten I. Duumvirs der Colonia Augusta Raurica,
Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho
Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili
Legatus Regionis Germaniae Superioris under the successful reign of
the
venerable C. Flavius Dicletianus Praetor Senator Propraetor Provinciae
Germaniae
junior Duumvir of the Colonia Augusta Rausica in the cabinet of the
venerable C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho, Senior Duumvir.
Legatus Regionis Germaniae Superioris C. Flavio Diocletiano venerando
Praetore Senatore Propraetore Provinciae Germaniae
Duumvir junior Coloniae Augustae Rauricae in consilio C.
Annaei Lucani venerandi Duumviri senioris
ante diem XV kalendas januaris anno MMDCCLIV ab urbe condita
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Salvete ! |
| From: |
"kaesoqvintvs" <kaesoqvintvs@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:21:03 -0000 |
|
Salvete Qvirites Omnes, I have arrived to this Forum
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Annual report of Q.Quinctilius Varus Galili, Legatus GerSup |
| From: |
"varus_galili" <quinctilius.varus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:41:07 -0000 |
|
E DOMO LEGATI GERMANIAE SUPERIORIS
Jahresrapport des Legaten der Regio Germaniae Superioris für das
Jahr
2001 (2754 a.u.c.)
Annual report of Q.Quinctilius Varus Galili Legatus Regionis
Germaniae
Superioris for the year 2754 a.u.c / 2001 p.C.n. Flavio Vedio
Germanico
Marco Cassio Juliano consulibus.
De rebus anno MMDCCLIV a.u.c. vel DDI p.C.n. Flavio Vedio Germanico
M.
Cassio Juliano consulibus gestis commentaria.
24.03.2001
Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili wird vom Senator und Propraetor
Provincia Germania, Caius Flavius Diocletianus, zum Legatus der
Regionis Germaniae Superioris ernannt.
03/24/2001
Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili appointed Legatus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris by C. Flavius Diocletianus Praetor Senator Propraetor
Provinciae Germaniae.
A.d.IX Kal.Apr. Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili a C. Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor Senator Propraetor Provinciae Germaniae Legatus Regionis
Germaniae Superioris factus est.
26.03.2001
Der neue Legatus von Germania Superior ernennt zu Mitgliedern seiner
Regierung:
- Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho zum Praefectus Vicarius
- Tiberius Annaeus Otho zum Praefectus Scribarum
- Roscia Annaea Pia zur Procuratrix
03/26/2001
The new Legatus Germaniae Superioris appoints the following persons
to
members of his regional cabinet:
- C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho as Scriba Praefectus Vicarius
- Ti. Annaeus Otho as Scriba Praefaectus Scribarum
- Roscia Annaea Pia as Scriba Procuratrix
A.d.VII Kal.Apr.
Legatus novis Germaniae Superioris advocat in consilium regionis
- C. Annaeum Lucanum Othonem Scribam Praefectum Vicarium
- Ti. Annaeum Othonem Scribam Praefaectum Scribarum
- Rosciam Annaeam Piam Scribam Procuratricem
27.03.2001
Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria Lucullina, die Gattin des Legaten, wird
Bürgerin von Novaroma Regio Germania Superior.
03/27/2001
Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria Lucullina, the Legatus' wife, is declared
Civis NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris.
A.d.VI Kal. Apr. Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria Lucullina Legati uxor
civis
NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris facta est.
28.03.2001
Publius Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus, der Sohn des Legaten, wird
Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania Superior.
03/28/2001
P. Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus, the Legatus' son, is declared
Civis
NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae Superioris.
a.d.IV Kal. Apr.
P. Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus Legati filius civis NovaRomanus
Regionis Germaniae Superioris factus est.
12.04.2001
Gaius Novidunus Ferriculus wird Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania
Superior.
Servilius Munatius Plancus wird Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania
Superior.
Tamaris Quinctilia Vara, Tochter des Legaten, wird Bürgerin von
Novaroma Regio Germania Superior.
04/12/2001
C. Noviodunus Ferriculus is declared Civis NovaRomanus Regionis
Germaniae Superioris.
Servilius Munatius Plancus is declared Civis NovaRomanus Regionis
Germaniae Superioris.
Tamaris Quinctilia Vara, the Legatus' daughter, is declared civis
NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris.
a.d.IV Id.Apr.
C. Noviodunus Ferriculus civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris
factus est.
Servilius Munatius Plancus civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris factus est.
Tamaris Quinctilia Vara Legati filia Germaniae Superioris civis
NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris facta est.
13.04.2001
Marcus Reatinus Valerius wird Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania
Superior.
04/13/2001
C. Noviodunus Ferriculus civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris
factus est.
A.d.III Id.Apri.
M.. Reatinus Valerius civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae Superioris
factus est.
08.06.2001
Per Edikt wurde die Colonia Augusta Raurica gegründet:
I. Duumvir ist Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho
II. Duumvir ist Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili
06/08/2001
By edict the Colonia Augusta Raurica is founded.
Senior Duumvir of the Colonia is C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho,
junior Duumvir Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili.
A.d.VI Id.Sext. (Aug.)
Edicto edito Colonia Augusta Raurica condita est,
C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho Duumvir senior,
Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili Duumvir juniorem Coloniae facti sunt.
9./10.06.2001
CUT/Xanten: An den Römertagen in CUT treffen Quintus Quinctilius
Varus
Galili und Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho den Senator und Propraetor
Caius
Flavius Diocletianus, die Quästrix Lucilla Cornelia Cinna und den
Spieler Quintus Gorgius Facilis Aleator.
06/09/2001 and 06/10/2001
Colonia Ulpia Traiana (CUT, Xanten): During the Roman Days Q.
Quinctilius Varus Galili and C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho met C. Flavius
Diocletianus Praetor Senator Propraetor Provinciae and Lucilla
Cornelia
Cinna Quaetrix and Q. Gorgius Facilis Aleator Mercator and his family.
A.d.V Id.Iun. et proximo
Diebus Romanis in Colonia Ulpia Traiana gestis Q. Quinctilius Varus
Galili et C.Annaeus Lucanus Otho C. Flavium Diocletianum Praetorem
Senatorem Propraetorem omnis Provinciae et Lucillam Corneliam Cinnam
Quaetricem et Q. Gorgium Facilem Aleatorem Mercatorem eiusque
familiam
convenerunt.
13.07.2001
Per Edikt wurde Augusta Raurica zur Hauptstadt und zum Regierungssitz
der Regio Germaniae Superioris erklärt.
07/13/2001
By edict the Colonia Augusta Raurica is declared Caput Regionis and
seat
of the regional administration of the Regio Germania Superior.
A.d.III Id.Quinct.(Iul.)
Q. Quinctilius Varus Coloniam edictum edens Augustam Rauricam caput
Regionis Germaniae Superioris sedemque consilii regionis fecit.
30.07.2001
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis, die Nichte des Legaten, wird
Bürgerin
von Novaroma Regio Germania Superior.
07/30/2001
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis, the Legatus' niece, is declared civis
NovaRomana Regionis Germaniae Superioris.
A.d.II Kal.Iul./Quinct.
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis Legati neptis civis NovaRomana
Regionis
Germaniae Superioris facta est.
22.08.2001
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi wird zu einem Scriba Procurator im
regionalen Kabinett ernannt.
08/22/2001
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi is appointed to Scriba Procurator in
the
Legatus' regional counsil.
A.d.XI Kal.Sept.
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi Scriba Procurator factus est atque in
consilium Legati vocatus.
25.08.2001
Georgius Durmius Silesius wird Bürger von Novaroma Regio Germania
Superior.
08/25/2001
Georgius Durmius Silesius is declared civis NovaRomanus Regionis
Germaniae Superioris.
A.d.VIII Kal.Sept.
Georgius Durmius Silesius civis NovaRomanus Regionis Germaniae
Superioris factus est.
26.08.2001
Römerfest in unserer Hauptstadt Augusta Raurica. Caius Annaeus
Lucanus
Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili, Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria
Lucullina, Tamaris Quinctilia Vara, Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis,
Publius Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus, Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Roscia
Annaea Pia und Quintus Gorgius Facilis Aleator nehmen aktiv am Fest
teil. Sie treffen Georgius Durmius Silesius.
08/26/2001
Roman festival in our capital Colonia Augusta Raurica. C. Annaeus
Lucanus Otho, Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili, Susanna Quinctilia
Fornaria
Lucullina, Tamaris Quinctilia Vara, Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis,
P.
Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus, Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Roscia Annaea
Pia
and Quintus Gorgius Facilis Aleator take part in the festival. The
meet
Georgius Durmius Silesius.
A.d.VII Kal.Sept.
Diebus festis in Colonia Augusta Ruarica capite nostro peractis C.
Annaeus Lucanus Otho Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili Susanna Quinctilia
Fornaria Lucullina Tamaris Quinctilia Vara Caesonia Quinctilia Cella
Isis P. Quinctilius Varus Phlegmaticus Ti. Annaeus Otho Roscia Annaea
Pia Quintus Gorgius Facilis Aleator participes Georgium Durmium
Silesium
convenerunt.
07.09.2001
Museumseinweihung in Hauterive bei Neuchâtel. Caius Annaeus
Lucanus
Otho, Tiberius Annaea Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili und
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis sind dabei.
Grosse Ehre für Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili und Tiberius
Annaeus
Otho. Sie dürfen die Ehrengarde für die schweizerische
Landesmutter,
Frau Bundesrätin Ruth Dreifuss stellen.
09/07/2001
Opening ceremony of the Museum in Hauterive near Neuchâtel. C.
Annaeus
Lucanus Otho, Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili and
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis take part.
Great honor conferred to C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho and Q. Quinctilius
Varus Galili, who serve as Guard of Honor for the matrone of
Switzerland, Ms. Ruth Dreifuss, member of the Swiss Bundesrat.
Non.Iul.
C. Annaeo Lucano Othone Tib. Annaeo Othone Q. Quinctilio Varo Galili
Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Iside participibus musaeum in Alta Ripa
prope
Castellum Novum sita dedicatum est.
Magna honore affecti C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho Q. Quinctilius Varus
Galili
custodiam honoris prosecuti sunt Ruth Dreifuss matrem patriae
principem
consilii Confoederationis Helveticae.
21.08.2001
Museumseröffnung in Badenweiler. Mit dabei sind Caius Annaeus
Lucanus
Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili, Tiberius Annaeus Otho,
Tamaris
Quinctilia Vara und Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis.
08/21/2001
Opening ceremony of the Museum in Badenweiler. C. Annaeus Lucanus
Otho,
Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili, Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Tamaris
Quinctilia
Vara and Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis take part.
A.d.XII Kal.Sept.
C. Annaeo Lucano Othone Q. Quinctilio Varo Galili Ti. Annaeo Othone
Tamaris Quinctilia Vara Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Iside participibus
musaeum in Vico Badense dedicatum est.
26.09.2001
Procurator Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi meldet die Geburt seiner
jüngsten Tochter Lucilla Titanica Catirova.
09/26/2001
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi announces the birth of his youngest
daughter Lucilla Titanica Catirova.
A.d.VI Kal.Oct.
Kaeso Titanicus Blasius Seibi Lucillam Titanicam Catirovam novissimam
filiam natam esse nuntiavit.
06.10.2001
ROMEC. Römertage im Römermuseum Brugg-Windisch. Es nehmen aktiv
teil
Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili, Susanna
Quinctilia Fornaria Lucullina und Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis.
10/06/2001
Roman Days in the Roman Museum Brugg-Windisch. Caius Annaeus Lucanus
Otho, Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili, Susanna Quinctilia Fornaria
Lucullina and Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis take part.
Pridie Non.Oct.
Diebus Romanis in musaeo in Vindonissa sito peractis C.
Annaeus Lucanus Otho Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili Susanna Quinctilia
Fornaria Lucullina Caesonia Quinctilia Cella Isis participes fuerunt.
27.11.2001
Diana Media Aurelia, Scriba Praetoria Germania und Bürgerin der
Regio
Germaniae Superioris, wird vom Senator und Propraetor Provincia
Germania, Caius Flavius Diocletianus, zur Procuratrix im Range eines
Legaten ernannt.
11/27/2001
Diana Meridia Aurelia Scriba Praetoria and civis NovaRomana Regionis
Germaniae Superioris is appointed Legata Procuratrix by C. Flavius
Diocletianus Praetor Senator Propraetor.
A.d.V Kal.Dec.
Diana Meridia Aurelia Scriba Praetoria civis NovaRomana in Regione
Germania Superiore habitans Legata Procuratrix facta est a C. Flavio
Diocletiano Praetore Senatore Propraetore omnis Provinciae.
Bevölkerungswachstum im Berichtsjahr seit meinem Amtsantritt am
24.03.2001: 8 Bürger/Innen
Increase of population during the reported year since I assumed
office
03/24/2001: 8 Cives
Civitas Regionis me legato VIII civibus augebatur.
Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili
Legatus Germaniae Superioris, unter der erfolgreichen Herrschaft des
verehrten Caius Flavius Diocletianus, Praetor, Propraetor und Senator
der Provincia Germania und II. Duumvir der Colonia Augusta Raurica,
im
Kabinett des hochgeachteten I. Duumvirs der Colonia Augusta Raurica,
Caius Annaeus Lucanus Otho
Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili
Legatus Regionis Germaniae Superioris under the successful reign of
the
venerable C. Flavius Dicletianus Praetor Senator Propraetor
Provinciae
Germaniae
junior Duumvir of the Colonia Augusta Rausica in the cabinet of the
venerable C. Annaeus Lucanus Otho, Senior Duumvir.
Legatus Regionis Germaniae Superioris C. Flavio Diocletiano venerando
Praetore Senatore Propraetore Provinciae Germaniae
Duumvir junior Coloniae Augustae Rauricae in consilio C.
Annaei Lucani venerandi Duumviri senioris
ante diem XV kalendas januaris anno MMDCCLIV ab urbe condita
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] New Cives |
| From: |
"Living History Australia" <Admin@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:08:05 +1000 |
|
Ave,
My reply below:
> I'm a "new citizen".. still awaiting citizenship in fact, after four or
more months of waiting. I'm told I will be enrolled as soon as the elections
are over.
>Umm, you applied 28 Sept (two and a half months, not "after four or more
months of waiting") to Gens Arcadia, whose Paterfamilias was on some remote
archaeology project in Australia. Much of this time was also due to you
search for an another gens and back to back voting periods.
That was the second application I sent, the first one apparently lost in
cyberspace. If that's the first record you have of my application, I'm
prepared to take your word for it.
> Lucius, I would suggest that there definitely needs to be a little more
attention paid to prospective and new cives. During the whole time I was
waiting, I didn't receive any word from the censors about what was
happening.
>That's because we were waiting for Paterfamilias approval, or to find out
what *you* were going to do. We didn't have anything to report.
You could have reported to me that you were waiting on Pater approval. I had
no idea. I sent away my application and got no answer.. not even a "we got
it, here's the process, please be patient" email, which would be a nice
thing for prospective members to receive. Just an idea. The news that
applications were at an "all-halt" for elections would have been useful
information, too. I would have been happy to receive an email that said
"SHUT UP AND WAIT, YOU IMPATIENT COW!!" - I was relieved to receive an
answer at all by this point! :-)
As for waiting for what "I" would do - I only found out what to do by
talking to other Nova Romans in the chat room - they suggested I seek out a
new gens, and email the pater before talking to the censors about it, all
sensible suggestions - and ones that it would be useful for all new members
to find out about from the censors, in response to me emailing you more than
once asking "what can I do to speed things up??"
>The first couple of emails I sent asking for a status report, went
unanswered. Finally I got an answer, which was very friendly and courteous
when it finally arrived.
Let me get this right, Omega, You were told you would be enrolled after the
elections or you didn't receive any word from the Censores.... Well, which
is it?
Perhaps you should read what I've posted again. I sent a couple of emails,
no answer. After repeating my requests more than once, I did get an answer -
but not the first time I asked for one, and not in any sort of timely
fashion. I'm sure there are perfectly good reasons for this, I'm sure that
you are busy. I'm not trying to point the finger here, it's a shame that you
are choosing to be so defensive.
>Then you receive an answer that is 'very friendly and courteous' but you
seem to be complaining.
Certainly it was more friendly and courteous than the tone you appear to be
adopting now. I hope, that my post won't be read as a foundless complaint,
and I hope that those who read it understand that I bring the matter up so
that a solution can be found. The news that the dead gens are going to be
sorted out is very welcome, and may well solve 99% of the problem.
>OH, I get it now!! I'm going to go have a few cold ones....
IO SATURNALIA!!!! :-D
IO SATURNALIA!!!
So, the usual response to a new member is to dismiss what they have said and
then hold them up to ridicule? I've no wish to start fights on my first day
as a citizen of Nova Roma, so I'll keep my opinions of your tone to myself.
It is, however, becoming clearer to me what the source of this problem might
be.
I was very happy and very proud to see my name finally on the list of cives,
and I refuse to let my happiness be tainted by the rudeness of another.
I wish everyone a happy Saturnalia.
Clodia Maria Omega
The biggest re-enactment event in the Southern Hemisphere..8th & 9th June
2002, Musgrave Park
www.brisbanemedievalfayre.com
Bringing history to life!
www.livinghistory.com.au
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Nuptual Congratulations! |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:35:15 -0000 |
|
---Yep!!!
He sure did, the rascal!
I wish Formosanus and Pica many years of happiness as well.
Pompeia
In novaroma@--------, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Although Nova Roma has no formal ties with the "Societas Via Romana"
as yet,
> I would like to post my, um, congratulations to Formosanus, (a man
of 50) who
> seems to (really!) have gotten married to Pica, a girl of but 19
years who is
> a Citizen of his Societas.
>
> It is both interesting to see such an ancient custom being revived,
and
> satisfying indeed to see that Patrician, Senator, Consul, and
Princeps
> Senatus Formosanus is not using his new egalitarian group for any
sort of
> personal gain or self aggrandisement.
>
> Here's the URL:
>
http://www.svr.unitron.com.pl/Viaromana/Collegium_Religionis/nuptiae_t
ranscrip
>
> t.htm
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Cives |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:37:49 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve Clodia Maria,
> You could have reported to me that you were waiting on Pater
> approval. I had no idea. I sent away my application and got no answer..
> not even a "we got it, here's the process, please be patient" email,
> which would be a nice thing for prospective members to recieve.
Good idea; we'll work on that. I can, without much difficulty, set up
a weekly scheduled job that would scan the database for those prospective
citizens awaiting approval (identified by "status=10" or "status=11").
It could send mail to those prospective citizens, informing them of their
current status, reminding them to contact the paterfamilias if they have
not already done so, and that the Censores will process their application
(after elections, if necessary).
If the Censores are agreeable to this, and will provide the text of the
mailing, I'll try to get it set up this weekend.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator, Nova Roma
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/consul
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Congratulations Plebian Magistrates 2755 |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:37:58 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Pompeia.
--- pompeia_cornelia <trog99@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> I would like to join in the congratulations of our newly elected
> Tribunii et Aediles Plebius.
Thank you very much, Pompeia.
> You guys will be great. No worries about proper representation for
> the Plebian interests, and certainly no worries about having lots of
> neat festival celebrations next year!!!
Let's hope that next year will be a fruitful one for Nova Roma :-).
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Congratulations |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:41:24 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Diocletiane.
--- cfdflaviusdio <3s@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
> salvete, plebeian Magistrates!
>
> My heartful congratulations for our newly elected plebeian
> magistrates:
>
> Tribuni Plebis Cnaeus Salix Astur and Marcus Arminius Maior
> Aedilis Plebis Sextus Apollonius Draco and Tiberius Apollonius
> Cicatrix
>
> Iīm sure that your work will give good benefits to our Res Publica.
> All the best for you and your work.
Thank you very much, Diocletiane. I look forward to work with you
during next year's term.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Merry Meet and Merry Part... |
| From: |
"Marcus Ursus" <Floreus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:44:29 -0600 |
|
Salve,
Actually... as one who is Asatru... I'll not attempt to educate in this
public forum at all. If contacted privately, I'll have no problems doing
such... but I don't feel it proper to educate in this Nova Roman forum.
Besides... the statements made lead me to believe that the individual making
those remarks is a tad to close-minded to *want* to listen.
Marcus Floreus Ursus
>Salve,
>
> > as they are a "racialist" reconstructionist group.
>
>I'm sure some of our Asatru here will soon attempt to educate
>you on this matter.
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Merry Meet and Merry Part... |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:41:04 EST |
|
Fortunata wrote:
I wish my name to be removed from the Nova Roma citizenship list. I have
decided, after careful consideration, that Nova Roma is not the "way" for me.
Cassius respondit:
I am more than happy to have the Censors do so. Gens Cassia is an open gens,
and people are allowed to come and go freely. You are allowed to go freely a
little more so than most - it's been years since I've received such a poison
pen letter from someone who has been treated only with kindness and respect.
Fortunata:
The reasons are as follows:
1. I've joined the Societas Via Romana, and I do not want this to cause any
"conflict of interest" with either organization. As my dear mother once said,
"Ya can't ride two horses with one ass!"
Cassius:
I definitely agree that they deserve you more than Nova Roma did.
Fortunata:
2. I simply don't feel comfortable in a group that endorses the Asatru Folk
Assembly, (they are on your link page, so I presume that you endorse them) as
they
are a "racialist" reconstructionist group. Why you do not
endorse the Asatru Troth Ring, which is "universalist", raises serious
concerns for me.
Cassius:
Listing information on a website does not constitute 'endorsement.' Very
early on, our first webmaster tried to make a listing of ALL 'historical
reconstructionist' groups out there. This listing is just one of several.
(However, there may be something useful in this. Perhaps we should put up a
small disclaimer with such listings that Nova Roma lists groups for
information only, and is not necessarily endorsing them by doing so. Might as
well eliminate this sort of confusion from happening in the future.)
Fortunata:
3. After participating, as a new citizen, on the NR list, I wonder who's
doing the moderating. Not only did I have to deal with rude questions, but
also
rude responses from some members in the NR. The most disturbing factor was
that the only person to address this rudeness was a "mere citizen"! (thanks
to you---Maxima Octavia!) When officials ignore such putdowns and "pissing
contests" it encourages offensive behavior to continue.
Cassius:
It's true, Nova Roma even allows posts as snide and bitter as yours to come
before the Citizens. It's a little something called 'free speech.' Moderating
a list as large as the NR main list is an extremely difficult task - and our
moderators have done an outstanding job in balancing free speech vs. orderly
speech.
I've never seen an Internet list where some arguing didn't happen. It's
something that's almost impossible to control - except by keeping *everyone*
on moderation and going through the content of each individual post before
allowing it through. I'm sure you'll see the same sort of thing in the
"Societas Via Romana" list as it grows (unless they clamp down on the very
freedoms they seemed to think were lacking here.)
Fortunata:
>4. During the resignations of the past week, there was a reference made to
harrassment of a person with an alternative sexual lifestyle because
they wanted a name change. My spiritual philosophy, together with my
role as a member of the Wiccan clergy means that I will not stay in any group
that would --even by "defacto action"---abuse anyone on the basis of ethnic
background, age, sex, or sexual lifestyle/orientation/preference. "Carrying
out orders" indicates that ethics may be a secondary consideration when it
comes to the "Roman Way" of conducting business. (Which was standard
operating proceedure then, and if NR wants to "reconstruct" that part Rome's
"glory", that's fine for those that feel comfortable with it.)
Cassius:
It's amazing that you have such strong words over a situation you clearly
know nothing about. You don't know the person in question, you don't know the
details of the controversy, and you *certainly* don't know the outcome. The
person you're speaking about had a huge disagreement with Formosanus and
ended up leaving Nova Roma because of his abusing her gender situation for
his own ends. You're going to join the very folks who did not respect her
privacy or situation.
Fortunata:
5. Above all, Sulla and Cassius are 100% right. Those that see NR worth
building shall stay and continue to construct that vision. Those that wish to
create a Romana based on humanism and universalism shall do so as
well--elsewhere. There are enough Roman heritage groups around for us to
freely join and build. If there were just one or two, it would be
one-dimensional
Romana indeed!
Cassius:
I certainly imagine you'll have an interesting time in the "Societas Via
Romana".
Fortunata:
>I would like to thank Cassius for his time and attention in helping me
along as a new citizen.
Cassius:
Effort that clearly went to naught, and was rewarded by what amounts to an
"F-U" letter posted to the main list.
Fortunata:
> I also thank Maxima Octavia for her friendship and
support, may that continue!
Cassius:
And may her efforts of friendship and support bear better fruit than mine
did!
Fortunata:
NovaRoma has much to be proud of---your membership is large and actively
involved, and you have a beautiful website. The only thing I would
suggest-as I did a few weeks ago- would be to site your primary and secondary
resources at the bottom of each ritual or article that you put on your
official website.
Cassius:
I personally never received any such suggestion from you weeks ago, so I'll
be happy to answer it here. Primary sources are indeed cited in the various
rituals. We try to keep the footnotes to a minimum so that the online
material is easier to work with than a dry textbook. If anyone has questions
on ANY information in the "Pantheon" section of the NR website it's easy
enough to ask the Pontiffs, or post to the Religio Romana list.
Fortunata:
In Wicca, we have a saying, "Merry Meet and Merry Part--and Merry Meet
Again!"
Cassius:
There was nothing merry in this parting of yours, and I'll happily pass on
the meeting again.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Clients |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:02:29 -0500 (EST) |
|
Reference:
"Handbook To Life In Ancient Rome", Adkins and Adkins---
--"Slaves became freedmen (liberti, libertini) or freedwomen (libertae)
by being granted manumission (freedom) by thier owner, or they could buy
thier freedom if they were able to raise sufficient money. Formal
manumission (before a magistrate) granted both freedom and Roman
citizenship,when the master let the slave go (manumisit).
--Clients were freemen who owed legally binding services to a patron,
and freedmen automatically became clients of thier former owners (now
thier patrons). They owed them obligations and sometime even continued
working for them. --
Although they gained citizenship, freedmen were not eligible for public
office. Any children subsequently born to them became free citizens and
were eligible for public office. Informal manumission (before friends)
did not grant citizenship; these freedmen were known as Junian Latins
(Latini Iuniani) and at their death thier property reverted to thier
former owners. Manumissions were fairly frequent, and the prospect of
freedom was probably one of the main incentives to efficient labor."
Respectfully Submitted
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations!!!!!!!- |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:14:48 -0500 (EST) |
|
My sincerest congratulations to Cnaeus Salix Astur, Marcus Arminus
Maior, Sextus Appolonius Draco, and Tiberius Appolonius Cicatrix.
I wish you all the best in your new positions as Magistrates and
servants of the people of Nova Roma. I expect great things from you as
you have all been active on the Main List and in activities off the Main
List as well. You have conducted yourselves in such a way as the
Citizens of Nova Roma have recognized your worth, and you have won an
election conducted in accordance with our constitution.
All this is indicative of the ability that you possess and the ideas
that you generate. Now you have the opportunity to turn those ideas
into significant advances for Nova Roma, and I have every belief that
you will do just that and will do it well.
Well Done, Gentlemen!!!!
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Cato / Brutus |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:24:16 +0100 |
|
BlankAve!
Is there anybody still having the text of Cato (perhaps via offline working in history)? I just finished the essay of Brutus on my website, but by error destroyed the page of Cato. It takes a lot of work to rewrite it, so please if anyone can help me...
Anyway, the life of Brutus is ready and can be viewed at:
http://www.geocities.com/Caius_Puteus_Germanicus/brutus.html
Vale optime in pace deorum!
Caius Puteus Germanicus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Clients |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:48:13 -0800 (PST) |
|
Referance:
Plutarch's life of Marius Paragraph V.
"Cassius Sabaco's servant, who was observed within the
rails among those who voted, chiefly occasioned the
suspicion, as Sabaco was an intimate friend of Marius;
but on being called to appear before the judges, he
alleged, that being thirsty by reason of the heat, he
called for cold water, and that his servant brought
him a cup, and as soon as he had drunk, departed; he
was, however, excluded from the senate by the
succeeding censors, and not undeservedly either, as
was thought, whether it might be for his false
evidence, or his want of temperance. Caius Herennius
was also cited to appear as evidence, but pleaded that
it was not customary for a patron (the Roman word for
protector) to witness against his clients, and that
the law excused them from that harsh duty; and both
Marius and his parents had always been clients to the
family of Herennii. And when the judges would have
accepted of this plea, Marius himself opposed it, and
told Herennius, that when he was first created
magistrate he ceased to be his client; which was not
altogether true. For it is not every office that frees
clients and their posterity from the observance due to
their patrons, but only those to which the law has
assigned a curule chair. Notwithstanding, though at
the beginning of the suit it went somewhat hard with
Marius, and he found the judges no way favourable to
him, yet at last, their voices being equal, contrary
to all expectation, he was acquitted."
>From this paragraph we see that Giaus Marius was the
Client of Caius Herennius. Marius was elected Tribune
of the Plebs, Praetor and Consul 7 times.
We also see that the Romans had a lex that freed a man
of his cliental obligations apon being elected to a
Curile Magistry, a very unlikely event for a slave or
a person of low social status. It was unheard of for a
person who was not only a member of the first class,
but also a Senator to be elected to a Curile office,
so this lex shows the existance of Clients in the
first Class and the Senate.
L. Sicinius Drusus
--- jmath669642reng@-------- wrote:
> Reference:
>
> "Handbook To Life In Ancient Rome", Adkins and
> Adkins---
>
> --"Slaves became freedmen (liberti, libertini) or
> freedwomen (libertae)
> by being granted manumission (freedom) by thier
> owner, or they could buy
> thier freedom if they were able to raise sufficient
> money. Formal
> manumission (before a magistrate) granted both
> freedom and Roman
> citizenship,when the master let the slave go
> (manumisit).
>
> --Clients were freemen who owed legally binding
> services to a patron,
> and freedmen automatically became clients of thier
> former owners (now
> thier patrons). They owed them obligations and
> sometime even continued
> working for them. --
>
> Although they gained citizenship, freedmen were not
> eligible for public
> office. Any children subsequently born to them
> became free citizens and
> were eligible for public office. Informal
> manumission (before friends)
> did not grant citizenship; these freedmen were known
> as Junian Latins
> (Latini Iuniani) and at their death thier property
> reverted to thier
> former owners. Manumissions were fairly frequent,
> and the prospect of
> freedom was probably one of the main incentives to
> efficient labor."
>
> Respectfully Submitted
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
>
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Gens restriction and suggestion |
| From: |
"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:15:57 -0000 |
|
Salve Caius Puteus
>Nevertheless, I am with senator Sulla here when he says that the familia needs to be the >basis for NR. There are - I suppose - enough gentes by now, so that the creation of new ones >should be discouraged.
Can I ask why you think that we now have enough gentes? As long as the creation of a new gentes is along historical lines and the name is 'roman'esque, I see no reason why the number of should be restricted to what we now have. After all, it's only very recently that we have witnessed the birth of the gens Putea isn't it ;-)
>Can't we have the subscription form - and here I turn my eyes to Marcus Octavius - something >like this:
>
>Praenomen: - free to choose -
>Nomen gentilis - suggested: gens Cassia -
>Cognomen: - free to choose -
>
>The suggested nomen is chosen automatically, out of all the gentes accepting new members, so >that all gentes can grow likewise and thus that the mentorship will be a duty for all the >patres and matrones.
I see what you are trying to achieve, but to my mind the choosing of ones gens is of fundamental importance to many Nova Romans. I'm sure that many are proud to call themselves Cassians, Cornelians or whatever. Heck, I know I'm certainly proud to be a Iunian. I don't forsee how suggesting to applicants what gens they should belong to will provide any benefit.
>If the suggested nomen is not accepted, then a list appears with all the available gentes. >When the prospect still doesn't want to choose one of them, there is a special button he can >press in order to fill out a special form in which he or she can specify the reasons for the >creation of a new gens.
So why suggest a gens in the first place? Especially as the creation of a new gens must still be justified now to the censors. IMO you will end up alienating those who have serious aspirations for NR.
You are right when you say that the issue of 'dead' paters/maters must be addressed. I think we all agree with that. The difficulties that the current situation creates amongst new applicants is intolerable. This is one of those topics that does its regular three monthly cycle and it's hopefully one that's going to be addressed by the incoming magistrates. However, I don't see how restricting appropriate gens creation and suggesting a gens to new applicants would help.
Vale
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congrautlations |
| From: |
"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:21:11 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
My congratulations and best wishes to all those recently elected by
the Concilium Plebis!
Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] New Magistrates |
| From: |
"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:22:07 -0000 |
|
Congratulations to all newly elected plebeian magistrates. I'm confident that our beloved res publica will be well served in the coming year.
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Gens restriction and suggestion |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:46:11 +0100 |
|
Salve Decime!
I will respond very briefly to your message, since it is knocking down the entirity of the proposal. I stress that this was just a thought. Answering to all the arguments I think is useless, since both positions are defendable (yours and mine). This would end in a very unproductive conversation, I suppose. Anyway, I don't mean this as an offense, I clearly say that both positions are possible!
Just a few remarks:
1. Indeed, it is very recently that I founded the gens Putea. I did this since this is the exact translation of my macronational name. I tried to join an existing gens but received no answer from the pater until two months later. It is not a question of defending my own name, nor yours of course.
2. My statement that there are enough gentes now. I say this since very few gentes have more members than one. Being a member of a bigger gens usually implies that there is a better infrastructure for new members, with a specific forum (list) for the gentiles. This usually also implies that there is a website with extra information and that there is a natural relationship between existing members and new ones once the Collis Capitolinus is mounted for the first time. Tell me honestly, what's the use of having 2000 members next year, and having 1000 gentes???
3. The value of the individual name. I agree with you 100 %, mi Decime, that the name you are called is a very important element in joining NR. But did you choose your own name when you were born? Did the Romans choose it? Nope... The SUGGESTED name is but a suggestion. When it is pos to alter the suggestion in something else, where's the problem then? I think it is important to inform prospects that by chosing to join a gens, there will be some sort of 'welcoming comittee'.
But I maintain that both positions are pos!!
Vale optime in pace deorum!
Caius Puteus Germanicus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/
----- Original Message -----
From: Decimus Iunius Silanus
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:15 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Gens restriction and suggestion
Salve Caius Puteus
>Nevertheless, I am with senator Sulla here when he says that the familia needs to be the >basis for NR. There are - I suppose - enough gentes by now, so that the creation of new ones >should be discouraged.
Can I ask why you think that we now have enough gentes? As long as the creation of a new gentes is along historical lines and the name is 'roman'esque, I see no reason why the number of should be restricted to what we now have. After all, it's only very recently that we have witnessed the birth of the gens Putea isn't it ;-)
>Can't we have the subscription form - and here I turn my eyes to Marcus Octavius - something >like this:
>
>Praenomen: - free to choose -
>Nomen gentilis - suggested: gens Cassia -
>Cognomen: - free to choose -
>
>The suggested nomen is chosen automatically, out of all the gentes accepting new members, so >that all gentes can grow likewise and thus that the mentorship will be a duty for all the >patres and matrones.
I see what you are trying to achieve, but to my mind the choosing of ones gens is of fundamental importance to many Nova Romans. I'm sure that many are proud to call themselves Cassians, Cornelians or whatever. Heck, I know I'm certainly proud to be a Iunian. I don't forsee how suggesting to applicants what gens they should belong to will provide any benefit.
>If the suggested nomen is not accepted, then a list appears with all the available gentes. >When the prospect still doesn't want to choose one of them, there is a special button he can >press in order to fill out a special form in which he or she can specify the reasons for the >creation of a new gens.
So why suggest a gens in the first place? Especially as the creation of a new gens must still be justified now to the censors. IMO you will end up alienating those who have serious aspirations for NR.
You are right when you say that the issue of 'dead' paters/maters must be addressed. I think we all agree with that. The difficulties that the current situation creates amongst new applicants is intolerable. This is one of those topics that does its regular three monthly cycle and it's hopefully one that's going to be addressed by the incoming magistrates. However, I don't see how restricting appropriate gens creation and suggesting a gens to new applicants would help.
Vale
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Cato restored! |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:10:59 +0100 |
|
BlankAvete omnes!
After my cry for help earlier today, I started back from scratch and the second edition of Cato's Life in summary is a fact!
You can view all the essays via:
http://www.geocities.com/Caius_Puteus_Germanicus/essays.html
and the text on Cato via:
http://www.geocities.com/Caius_Puteus_Germanicus/cato.html
and of course the one on Brutus (also new) via:
http://www.geocities.com/Caius_Puteus_Germanicus/brutus.html
I humbly beg Fortuna to preserve my website from further trouble, be it my own error or an unknow disaster making geocities crash. This would be about the fifth computer crash I survive this year, anybody know who is the god of informatics??? I definately have to start worshipping him/her!!! :-)
Vale optime in pace deorum!
Caius Puteus Germanicus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Gens restriction and suggestion |
| From: |
"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:40:24 -0000 |
|
Salve Cai Pute
>I will respond very briefly to your message, since it is knocking down the entirity of the >proposal.
Not at all - I just questioned some specifics and asked what you thought the benefits are.
>I stress that this was just a thought. Answering to all the arguments I think is useless, >since both positions are defendable (yours and mine).
To be honest, I don't think that there are two positions. We both agree that the inactivity of paters needs to be addressed. Again, it's just a matter of specifics.
>1. Indeed, it is very recently that I founded the gens Putea. I did this since this is the >exact translation of my macronational name. I tried to join an existing gens but received no >answer from the pater until two months later. It is not a question of defending my own name, >nor yours of course.
I hope you thought I was not being critical in any way. I was just making the point that you yourself took advantage of the ability to create your own gens - to the benefit of NR I hasten to add. Why deny other committed citizens the same.
>2. My statement that there are enough gentes now. I say this since very few gentes have more >members than one. Being a member of a bigger gens usually implies that there is a better >infrastructure for new members, with a specific forum (list) for the gentiles. This usually >also implies that there is a website with extra information and that there is a natural >relationship between existing members and new ones once the Collis Capitolinus is mounted >for the first time. Tell me honestly, what's the use of having 2000 members next year, and >having 1000 gentes???
I just don't see a problem as long as the gens are historical or romanesque. The roman state of antiquita did not have leges dictating the number of names that were allowed. If individuals want to belong to a big family - thats fine. If they want to go it alone, that should be fine too.
>3. The value of the individual name. I agree with you 100 %, mi Decime, that the name you >are called is a very important element in joining NR. But did you choose your own name when >you were born? Did the Romans choose it? Nope... The SUGGESTED name is but a suggestion. >When it is pos to alter the suggestion in something else, where's the problem then? I think >it is important to inform prospects that by chosing to join a gens, there will be some sort >of 'welcoming comittee'.
If the suggestion is just a suggestion and you are allowed to change it, whats the point of having it in the first place? As it is, the censors can and do give more than enough guidance to those who can't find an active pater or who simply don't care what they are called. To those who do care what their roman name is, suggesting to them that they should become a Cassii (for example - no offence to all the Cassii out there), may appear somewhat amateurish.
Vale
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Gratias vobis ago! I thank you! |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:55:42 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes Quirites,
I would like to thank all citizens who have voted for me publicly. I hope I will not let you down, and will try my best to keep my word. I would also like to thank all those who have congratulated me on my victory. It is heart-warming to see so many people giving me their best wishes.
I wish to congratulate my frater Tiberius on his election as well, and extend my best wishes to our new Tribuni, Gnaeus Salix and Marcus Arminius. You are both men of virtue and moderation, and I respect you very much.
Lastly, I would like to thank Gaius Sentius for running as Aedilis Plebis, and I am genuinely sorry to see that one of us had to come third. However, I trust that one day you will make it to the position you deserve, which is that of a magistrate of Nova Roma!
Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Bashing of the SVR (a little long) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:25:00 +0100 |
|
Salvete Quirites Novae Romae,
Lately there has been a flood of e-mail and postings, but I would like to
draw your collective attention - especially that of the frequent deleters of
postings - to the following e-mail.
Recently, my paterfamilias, the well-known Formosanus, has left Nova Roma,
along with my former gentiles Pica, Tacitus and 'Sokarus'. They departed for
an organisation which I am co-founder of, namely the Societas Via Romana, a
community similar to New Rome in the sense that it revolves around the same
theme, and shares some superficial resemblances. However, it is not a
micronation, and while originally intended to do so, has no aspiration to
recreate the ancient Religio Romana. In a way, both organisations, NR and
SVR, can be considered siblings. I am member of both, and will hopefully
remain so.
In general, most reactions to this initiative have been neutral to positive,
which I am grateful for.
However, there recently has been one particular posting that drew my
attention. Its unthoughtful, disrespectful and ad hominem character was made
even worse by the fact that it was written by a man who is also a
macronational politician, namely Lucius Sicinius Drusus. For the sake of
brevity, I will only briefly adress the comments he made:
LSD:
> > Well Formy/Florus is now a Senator, a Consul, AND the Princeps Senatus,
> > making our boy the bigest Patrican Ogrearch on Roman Road.
> >
SAD:
While this sort of language is tolerable on the Back Alley list, I do have a
problem that it is allowed here. Of course, Drusus can not be held guilty of
this since he did not forward this ludicrous piece of prose to the main
list, but it sure does testify of more than rational criticism alone. In
respect to his being Princeps Senatus, he was that until we had 15 members.
Afterwards, the function ceased to exist because we had formal leadership
under the form of Consuls. He has recently been democratically elected as
Consul.
And if I may note, he has never been an opponent of patricians. Supporting
the plebeian cause does not mean being opposed to patricians.
LSD:
> > The Formyland Constitution has some nice twists too!
> >
> > Like this little clause.
> >
> > (d) Membership in or public alignment with neo-fascist, ultra-rightest,
> > ultra-leftist, racist, anti-semitic, totalitarian or terrorist
> > organisations is considered adequate reason for denial or withdrawal of
> > membership. Failure to mention such affiliation or orientation at time
> > of membership application is due cause for summary expulsion by both
> > Censores acting collegially if discovered within one year of the
> > granting of membership, without right of provocatio. Subsequent evidence
> > of such affiliations if discovered shall be reported to the Praetores
> > for investigation and possible expulsion trial, or to the Magister Morum
> > if one has been appointed.
> >
> > Isn't that Wonderful? Our Champion of openess is ready to expell those
> > who's Macro national politics fail to meet HIS standards! Everyone that
> > Formy accused of being far right raise your hand!! You are Expelled!
> >
SAD:
(1) You cleverly forgot that the clause also mentions "ultra-leftist", which
people have accused him (and me) of. So if we follow your flawed reasoning,
he should expel himself.
(2) Do you honestly think that fascists or totalitarianists are allowed in
any decent organisation?
(3) Florus cannot expel people from SVR at his whim. He simply does not have
that power.
(snipped)
LSD:
> > Now who remembers his tirades about Clients?
> >
> > (h) The right as a new member to select or be appointed by the Censores
> > a praeceptor (mentor) from among the more informed and responsible
> > members of the Societas to provide personal guidance in learning the
> > rules, rights, customs and procedures of the Societas, learning to take
> > advantage of the educational, cultural and social opportunities
> > available, and in finding concrete ways of making a specific
> > contribution to the work of the Societas. This relationship of
> > praeceptor/discipulus shall terminate at the end of six months, leaving
> > no obligation on either side.
> >
> > Yep he has Clients in the Constitution, though he uses a different name!
> >
SAD:
(1) If we say "without obligation" we do mean "without obligation". You
appear to read selectively.
(2) We have a Regula Fundamentalis, which is not a Constitution. SVR is not
a micronation.
LSD:
> > Another goody from the fierce opponent of Taxes!
> >
SAD:
Florus/Formosanus was never opposed to taxes. He was opposed to the way in
which the plan would be carried out.
LSD:
> > (b) Ordo Equester (Equestrian Order). The Equestrian Order shall consist
> > of members who pay in any given calendar year a donation to the Societas
> > equal to three times the normal annual dues owed by them or in the
> > absence of decreta assessing dues applicable to them, a sum of not less
> > than 100 Euros or other sum determined by decretum of the Comitia
> > Generalia. This may include expenses paid for the work of the Societas
> > directly by the member, provided that it is documented in a manner
> > satisfactory to any relevant decreta, the Quaestores, and the Censores.
> > For candidacy purposes the Equestrians stand for office in their
> > original order, whether Patrician or Plebeian. An Equestrian for ten
> > consecutive years shall become an Equestrian for life regardless of
> > future contributions in excess of normal dues, if assessed.
> >
> > Lets see it's inhumane to ask for a lousy 12 Bucks a year in taxes
> > (which ARE allowed by his Constitution) but No problem with selling off
> > membership in the Ordo Equester at 100 Euros a year!
> >
SAD:
Membership to the Ordo Equester has no gain, other than prestige.
LSD:
> > Now we can't forget how important is was to have VERY active Tribunes to
> > fight those evil OGREARCHS, so now that Formy is a Patrican OGREARCH
> > what do we see?
> >
> > 9. Tribuni Curules (Curule Tribunes). Two tribunes shall be elected by
> > the Comitia Generalia to serve a term lasting one year. They must both
> > be of the Patrician Order, and shall have the following powers and
> > obligations:
> >
> > (1) To protect the rights of the Patricians;
> >
> > Now we all remember how important it was to have the Tribunes of the
> > Plebs promulgate in the Plebian assembly where those EVIL Patricians
> > can't vote, do we see this in Formyland?
> >
> > Nope they have ONE assembly where Patricians (Like Formy/Florus) can
> > vote down Pleblacita proposed by the Tribunes of the Plebs.
> >
SAD:
(1) We have Tribuni Plebis, too, which is in our Regula you claim to have
read.
(2) The percentage of patricians cannot be larger than 50%, which is also in
our Regula you claim to have read.
(3) "Tribuni Curules" which did not exist in old Rome, were my idea, not
his. I co-authored this Regula.
LSD:
> > All Hail Formy!! Patrician Senator, Consul, Princeps Senatus AND Rex of
> > Hypocrits, the biggest Ogrearch of them all.
SAD:
I have come to the conclusion that not only you are making a fool out of
yourself as a politician, you are also presenting falsehoods and
misinterpretations to Nova Roma about the Societas Via Romana, which does
not exactly do you and your reputation credit. Your mail did not expose *us*
as malicious, but exposed *you* as sensationalist and vulgar.
We have a saying over here: "last laugh, best laugh".
Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] What's this? |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:45:13 +0100 |
|
Salvete!
I came across this: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Aristocracy/
Could anyone explain me what kind of group this is?
Valete bene,
Draco
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: What's this? |
| From: |
"cassius622" <cassius622@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:01:43 -0000 |
|
Salve,
I have no clue myself. Anyone else have any idea? I don't know who is
in this list, (I believe one would have to be a member to see, and
I'm not a member) but it would certainly be amusing to find out.
The whole premise seems a little silly - if such a list were serious
I can't imagine it would be run as a public group on Yahoo. ;)
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
> Salvete!
>
> I came across this: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Aristocracy/
>
> Could anyone explain me what kind of group this is?
>
> Valete bene,
> Draco
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Rudeness and hate messages on this list |
| From: |
"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:03:39 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes,
You can often hear people leaving telling they have been unhappy with
the atmosphere here, that they cannot stand rude e-mail messages and so
on. Often also, the answer is: they deserved that.
I don't want to educate anyone (I'm too young for claiming this) nor do
I want to hurt anyone in special. I just feel the necessity to speak out
my opinion, because reading all this hate makes me feel uncomfortable.
Because I believe in a world of peace and respect.
Maybe I am an idealist, but I think that:
- even if you don't have the same opinions like somebody else, there's
no reason to be rude
- even if you have been offended by the other person, there's no reason
to offend him or her in the same way
- if there really is a big fight between 2 people, better they should
fight together and not involve a whole community.
Through the mean of e-mail, some people forget the social dimension of a
discussion or argumentation. Just imagine in the real world gathering
500 persons (the subscribed persons to this list) and imagine that all
you write you speak it with loudspeakers to the whole assembly. Would
you really do this? Do you really do that in real life?
Ok, here some examples to illustrate my view. Since they are out of
context, I don't even want to mention who told this or that. And
whatever you may think, I'm not taking position for the one and against
the other. I just hope that you understand that even though the message
was meant to offend just one person, it offended me as well. Because I
read it. And this violence definitely doesn't fit into my pattern.
Example 1:
"A listing of a URL is not an endorsement, except to a feeble intellect.
(Yes, I mean to be insulting. I am getting very tired of putting out
these fires, time and again. No apology will EVER be offered.)"
Why? why? why? Was it really necessary to talk like that in public?
Someone who doesn't know the antecedents and just reads this will not
understand this strong reaction, be it justified or not.
Example 2:
A- "Not only did I have to deal with rude questions, but also rude
responses from some members in the NR."
B- "I don't recall you EVER posting to the list before. You must not be
a memorable human."
A didn't say he/she posted something to the list. A said there were rude
questions and rude answers to deal with (reading something = to deal
with). So I really don't understand the message of hate proferred by B.
The first sentence could be OK, but the second one is a useless
addition. And if the person really posted something? Can one really
claim to remember all messages posted here? there are thousands of
messages in the archives. Wow good memory one must have to remember
every single person.
Example 3:
A- "Ya can't ride two horses with one ass!" [about having to choose
between NR and something else]
B- "I definitely agree that they deserve you more than Nova Roma did."
A said something I understand to be funny. One has to respect the choice
someone else did. B's comment feels to me like respectless and therefore
immature.
***
There would be plenty of other examples, but I'll stop here. Once again,
I want to make my point clear: These examples are not meant to hurt or
offend anybody. They are meant as examples how a person can feel
uncomfortable in this list and as an explanation why people leave
invoking this reason.
Probably you will tell me this:
"May the Gods help us be amused at and pity those who can not
comfortably live in a world which contains rude or offensive behavior."
And my answer to that is: There is already enough rudeness and offensive
behavior by uneducated and uncivilized people. So I'm expecting more
politeness and friendliness from educated and civilized ones. I also
never had any problems up to now by using this very easy rule: make
friends with people who are friendly and ignore those who are rude.
I will answer all posts, provided they are not offending.
Valete bene,
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] What's this? |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Gaius=20Quirinus=20Caesar?= <gaius_quirinus_caesar@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:02:49 +0100 (CET) |
|
Salvete omnes,
I will only know who's the founder of this group,
where we can read:
"A Mailing list where Nova Roma's *elite* can discuss
the *future* of the Res Publica".
Why have you created a list where only the "elite" of
NR may discuss? Why I, or everybody else, may not
partecipate? Who are you to decide who could be a
member of this "Nova Roma elite"?
Vale,
Gaius Quirinus
______________________________________________________________________
Iscriviti al Meglio della Settimana, la newsletter di Yahoo!
Per saperne di pių vai alla pagina: http://buongiorno.yahoo.it
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: What's this? |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:57:35 +0100 |
|
Salve!
>
> I have no clue myself. Anyone else have any idea? I don't know who is
> in this list, (I believe one would have to be a member to see, and
> I'm not a member) but it would certainly be amusing to find out.
>
> The whole premise seems a little silly - if such a list were serious
> I can't imagine it would be run as a public group on Yahoo. ;)
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
LOL! This is supposed to be for the elite, and one of the founders isn't
even on the list. They must be °really° elitist then!
Vale bene,
Draco
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Foriegn Language Moderation |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:03:13 -0500 (EST) |
|
Citizens of Nova Roma;
I know that you are probably sick to death of this topic, but I was
speaking to a Senate Colleague tonight and in our discussion I was
explaining that I did not understand the argument over the topic
subject, and I explained my reasoning. After listening to my
explanation he has askd me to put my reasoning on the Main List to
insure that everyone understands where I am coming from.
First let me say that I do not object to anyone posting to the NR Main
List in thier native language. My problem is that the only real
difference that I see in the two views here is in the immediacy of the
English translation. The current rules require a translation up front,
the other side of the street would have the translation come later, if
at all after the fact, by a volunteer.
The problem here is that as a Magistrate and a Senator, I have been
elected to the position of a Magistrate and Senator by the people whom I
represent. This means to me that the people of Nova Roma have appointed
me to be their eyes and ears, and on occasion thier mouth where all
cannot go. As their representative they expect me to make decisions
based on thier ideas, concerns, comments, and complaints. To do that I
must read he Main List Mail, and I must have the information in that
mail immediately in order to do the job that the Citizens have taken the
trouble to appoint me to do. I believe that this is my task in Nova
Roma, and my belief is strongly supported by being returned to office in
four consecutive elections by the people of Nova Roma.
It is well known that I am an American, and is also well known that I
have traveled the world over, and whereever I go, I have endeavored to
try to speak the native language, at least a little bit / a few words.
It should also be realized by most Nova Romans who have an interest in
such hings that my ability in learning new languages is very poor, and
so in order to do the job that the Citizens of Nova Roma have voted for
me to do repeatedly, I must have the Main List information in English
from which to make the decisions, formulate the plans, and make the
suggestions, that my position given to me by the Nova Roma people
demands. Such is my feeling that this is my responsibility, and that
feeling is strongly supported by the people of NR in turn each year.
Now, if any individual does not believe that a Senator and Magistrate
has that responsibility, I refer you to the Magistrate's Oath and the
NR Constitution. If anyone thinks that I speak foolish words, or words
that are untrue , insincere, or just plain false, I can but refer you to
the people who have elected me, and have continued to elect me in the
past elections, and in addition, I refer you to my colleagues who are
both Magistrates and Senators, even those with whom I have not always
agreed.
In order to do what you have honored me with the responsibility of
doing, I must know up front what is being said on the NR Main List, in
English. Such is my task, such is my belief, and such is the call of
the Citizens of Nova Roma in my belief.
My apologies for my late declaration of this, but I thought my past
posts had made such quite clear. My colleague however thught that it
necessary that I should spell it out even more plainly, and at his
request I have done so.
Respectfully Submitted;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Rudeness and hate messages on this list |
| From: |
"radams36" <radams40@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 23:05:16 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "G. Noviodunus Ferriculus"
<Ga--------Nov--------nus@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> You can often hear people leaving telling they have been unhappy
with
> the atmosphere here, that they cannot stand rude e-mail messages
and so
> on. Often also, the answer is: they deserved that.
>
> I don't want to educate anyone (I'm too young for claiming this)
nor do
> I want to hurt anyone in special. I just feel the necessity to
speak out
> my opinion, because reading all this hate makes me feel
uncomfortable.
> Because I believe in a world of peace and respect.
>
> Maybe I am an idealist, but I think that:
> - even if you don't have the same opinions like somebody else,
there's
> no reason to be rude
> - even if you have been offended by the other person, there's no
reason
> to offend him or her in the same way
> - if there really is a big fight between 2 people, better they
should
> fight together and not involve a whole community.
>
> Through the mean of e-mail, some people forget the social dimension
of a
> discussion or argumentation. Just imagine in the real world
gathering
> 500 persons (the subscribed persons to this list) and imagine that
all
> you write you speak it with loudspeakers to the whole assembly.
Would
> you really do this? Do you really do that in real life?
>
SNIP!
>
> Once again,
> I want to make my point clear: These examples are not meant to hurt
or
> offend anybody. They are meant as examples how a person can feel
> uncomfortable in this list and as an explanation why people leave
> invoking this reason.
>
> Probably you will tell me this:
> "May the Gods help us be amused at and pity those who can not
> comfortably live in a world which contains rude or offensive
behavior."
>
> And my answer to that is: There is already enough rudeness and
offensive
> behavior by uneducated and uncivilized people. So I'm expecting
more
> politeness and friendliness from educated and civilized ones. I
also
> never had any problems up to now by using this very easy rule: make
> friends with people who are friendly and ignore those who are rude.
>
> I will answer all posts, provided they are not offending.
>
> Valete bene,
> --
> Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
> Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
> Friburgii Helvetiorum
Salve, Gaie!
A courteous and thoughtful post. You have made your point clearly,
yet politely, avoiding both condescension and pedantry - well done!
I would only advise, though, while acknowledging that you have a good
point: when you see one of these posts that seems to you to be
reactionary or unnecessarily rude, take a moment to search the last
few posts with the individual's name in them. Sometimes that
clarifies things. I won't make excuses for anyone, myself included,
who may seem to you to overreact or to take too harsh a tone. I only
submit that context does matter, and it's relatively easy and quick
to put the conversation in context, in most cases.
Still and all, your points are certainly very worthy of consideration
and thought, in any case. A high degree of freedom of speech is a
positive aspect of this forum, and should remain so. It should be up
to us all as mature individuals to remember the ideals of courtesy
and of orderly debate.
Thanks for a fine, thought-provoking post!
Salve,
Rufus Iulius Palaeologus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Cives |
| From: |
"Living History Australia" <Admin@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:43:40 +1000 |
|
Ave Marcus,
That's brilliant! Keeping the prospective cives informed is really important, and if they know what's going on with their application, they are more likely to hang around long enough to get onto the rolls.
It's nice to see someone coming up with solutions instead of just trying to shoot down other cives. Thank-you!
Clodia Maria Omega
The biggest re-enactment event in the Southern Hemisphere..8th & 9th June 2002, Musgrave Park
www.brisbanemedievalfayre.com
Bringing history to life!
www.livinghistory.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Cives
Salve Clodia Maria,
> You could have reported to me that you were waiting on Pater
> approval. I had no idea. I sent away my application and got no answer..
> not even a "we got it, here's the process, please be patient" email,
> which would be a nice thing for prospective members to recieve.
Good idea; we'll work on that. I can, without much difficulty, set up
a weekly scheduled job that would scan the database for those prospective
citizens awaiting approval (identified by "status=10" or "status=11").
It could send mail to those prospective citizens, informing them of their
current status, reminding them to contact the paterfamilias if they have
not already done so, and that the Censores will process their application
(after elections, if necessary).
If the Censores are agreeable to this, and will provide the text of the
mailing, I'll try to get it set up this weekend.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator, Nova Roma
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/consul
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Bashing of the SVR (a little long) |
| From: |
Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:30:15 -0800 (PST) |
|
Ave,
The criticism of Formosanus is bad yet you
criticize another Nova Roma citizen and it's okay?
Now I do not know all the facts of the situation
surrounding Formosanus's departure from Nova Roma, but
I do know enough (based on what I read) to respond to
your statement. You accuse Lucius Sicinius Drusus of
making a statement that was "unthoughtful,
disrespectful and ad hominem character was made even
worse by the fact that it was written by a man who is
also a macronational politician." His statement was a
criticism of another mans flaws and actions that
opened the path to criticism. Yet you criticize
another man for his flaws. What makes you any better
than Lucius Sicinius Drusus. In regards to the
criticim of Formosanus you say "he has never been an
opponent of patricians. Supporting the plebeian cause
does not mean being opposed to patricians." Do you
really think this what not open up a gateway to
criticism from patricians? That's no different than
seperatist groups (i.e. the IRA or ETA) who oppose the
ruling governments of their lands. They are viewed as
opposing the ruling governement. Regardless of
whether a system is liked but just a desire for change
in the governemnt or ruling class it is opposition and
viewed as such whether people like it or not. You
accuse Drusus of being vulgar yet where was the
vulgarity? From my perspective it did nothing more
than expose the hypocrisy.
vale
Quintus Cornelius Caesar
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] ELECTION RESULTS |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:46:26 EST |
|
Salvete Omnes,
The rogators have sent me the final results of the elections. I wish to thank
them for their hard work - the position of Rogator is a 'behind the scenes'
job which indeed gets too little mention.
I also wish to publicly congratulate our newly elected magistrates!
-Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
ELECTION RESULTS:
C Centuriata
Censor
Diocletianus 84
Vedia 46
Tied votes, decided upon by the gods:
Dio: wins 16 votes extra
Vedia wins 10 votes extra
This brings the total to: Diocletianus 100 and Vedia 56
>> Diocletianus is elected CENSOR.
Consul:
M. Octavius Germanicus 97
L. Cornelius Sulla 94
>> Both are elected, M. Octavius is senior.
Praetor: new elections necessary, but the results of these elections are:
Pompeia 76 (not a mater familias, Fortunatus and Fabius are both PF)
Fortunatus 62 + 2
Fabius 47 + 2
The tied centuries were decided upon by the gods.
Gaius Geminius Germanus 1
Necessary Centuries to win: half of the voting centuries +1. 158 centuries
voted, 80 centuries needed to win.
>> No candidate has sufficient votes, so a second election will be needed.
Lex Vedia de Tribuni
Yes 128
No (including Abstineo) 23
Lex Vedia de Liberus Civium
Yes 136
No (including Abstineo) 16
The results for the C Populi Tributa are as follows :
Curules Aediles
- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, elected with 34 tribus
- Amulius Claudius Petrus, elected with 32 tribus
Questores
- Marcus Minucius Audens with 26 tribus
- G. Quirinus Italicus Caesar with 22 tribus
- Decius Cornelius with 21 tribus
- Titus Octavius Pius with 20 tribus
- Quintus Fabius Maximus with 20 tribus
- Franciscus Apulius Caesar with 20 tribus
Laenas and Hadrianus are not elected with resp. 14 and 11 tribus, so a second
election will be needed (you need half of the 35 tribus + 1 to win)
write-in candidates:
G. Geminius Germanus 1
G. Africanus Secundus 1
C. Puteus Germanicus 1
Curator Araneum
- Marcus Octavius Germanicus elected with 30 tribus (29 + 1 decided by the
gods i.e. by lot)
- Franciscus Apulius Caesar is not elected with 5 tribus (1 + 4 decided by
the gods i.e. by lot)
Curator differium
- M. Scipiadus Scipio Africanus elected with 35 tribus
Curator Sermonis
- P. Vedia Serena elected with 20 tribus
- M. Villius Limitanus lost with 15 tribus (11 directly + 4 tied ones, since
he is a pater familias)
Rogatores
- Julilla Sempronia Magna elected with 34 tribus
- Titus Horatius Atticus with 22
- M. Scipiadus Scipio Africanus with 21
- P. Domitianus (12) and M. Bianchius Antonius (8) are not elected and will
need a second election (see remark at quaestores)
Leges
- Lex Vedia de Quaestores is not accepted with 25 tribus (No-votes including
Abstineo) and 10 tribus voting yes
- Lex Vedia de Oratorio is not accepted with 22 tribus (No-votes including
Abstineo) and 13 tribus voting yes
- Lex Vedia de Magisterium Aetate is accepted with 33 tribus and 2 voting
against
For the decision of the gods concerning the throwing of lot for the position
of Curator Araneum, I thrust my collegue Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
in his message to the rogatores.
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Announcement of Runoff Elections |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:52:25 EST |
|
Salvete Omnes,
By the tally of the Rogators, there are two races which will require runoff
elections; the contest for Praetor, and the election of our last two needed
Quaestors. The dates of these have been scheduled by magisterial edictum
already, and are scheduled to be held from Dec. 20th to Dec. 28th. I ask that
this information be publicly posted on the website, and urge our Citizens to
vote in this runoff election so that our end-of-year business may be finished
responsibly. :)
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Runoff elections:
Praetor: new elections necessary, but the results of these elections are:
Pompeia 76 (not a mater familias, Fortunatus and Fabius are both PF)
Fortunatus 62 + 2
Fabius 47 + 2
The tied centuries were decided upon by the gods.
Gaius Geminius Germanus 1
Necessary Centuries to win: half of the voting centuries +1. 158 centuries
voted, 80 centuries needed to win.
>> No candidate has sufficient votes, so a second election will be needed.
Laenas and Hadrianus are not elected with resp. 14 and 11 tribus, so a second
election will be needed (you need half of the 35 tribus + 1 to win)
write-in candidates:
G. Geminius Germanus 1
G. Africanus Secundus 1
C. Puteus Germanicus 1
|
