Forum Romanum


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] ELECTION RESULTS
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:17:12 -0500

Salve,

>>Diocletianus is elected CENSOR.>>

My heartfelt congratulations to you! I am certain you will continue to
offer Nova Roma a very high standard of dedication and excellent work in
your new office. I sincerely believe you will do an outstanding job as
Censor and I wish you every success in the office.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	[novaroma] congrats to all newly elected
From:	"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:36:51 +0100

BlankC. Puteus Germanicus omnibus salutem!

Even though I am but a mere citizen ;-) I want to congratulate and encourage all newly elected magistrated and wish 'em good luck and prosperity for Nova Roma during the next year (or two years for Diocletianus). As rogator the outcome wasn't really surprising, but the congrats are nevertheless sincere!

P.S. I will do my best when tallying the votes for the praetores and the quaestores who aren't yet all known.

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Puteus Germanicus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations!!!
From:	"luciuspompeius" <danielovi@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:57:07 -0000

Salvete omnes!
Congratulations to the winners!!!!. No doubt they will make a
remarkable and brilliant job next year!!.
Cheers! Nova Roma will benefit a lot from all of you!! Enjoy!!
Habeatis fortunam optimam
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus


Subject:	[novaroma] Curator Sermonem and Consul
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:15:14 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Marco Octavio Germanico S.P.D.

I present you, amice and honorable Consul, my congratulations for your
elections as Consul and Curator Sermonem.
You won me with many tribus on more and I knew the results of my election.
You have the right skills to manage the official website and I'm sure you'll
make a very good work in the next year.
I hope to work with you like Scriba or assistant to help you in the design
and graphics.

I'm happy for my election as Quaestor and for the election of my friend
Gaius Quirinus Italicus: this is an important step for the Provincia Italia.
So, I give my congratulations to everybody too, and specially for my friends
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, Gnaeus Salix Astur and Amulius Claudius Petrus.

Valete, gratiam et bonam fortunam
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia
Paterfamilias Gens Apula
www.gensapula.too.it
----------------------------------------
Alme Sol ... Possis Nihil Urbe Roma Visere Maius

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Subject:	[novaroma] Gotta be short- computer's going down
From:	Joanne Shaver <merlinia@-------->
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:30:21 -0500

Salvete All! Merlinia sends Greetings of the Season!
I. My computer screen is starting to make "flatlines", and we need
another soon.

II. Comcast@home, my server, is changing to 'Highspeed' on 12/27, when
I'll have a new address, but I don't know it yet. When I know, you will,
too.

III. I cannot find a Gens member, Gaius Ambrosius Valerius. His Emails,
and now, his Snail-mail has returned. He lives in Montreal, Canada.
If anyone knows him, let him know Mommy's looking for him.

IV. The 103rd meeting of the AIA(Archaeological Institute of America)
is being held at the Philadelphia Marriott, Phil., PA., 1/3-6/02.
There are always a lot of Roman programs given- there's a lot on
Food, Feasting, and Trade routes this time (mostly on Fri.).
See more about it on their site at http://www.archaeological.org
I and my Roman cooking demo partner, Fiona, will be there Thurs. night
till sunday morning. We have a room, and if anyone is coming for a day,
you can use it as a 'base camp'.
You'll have to call me on the phone, or email before 12/27.
Valete for now!
-M.


Subject:	[novaroma] Gratulationes!
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:47:28 -0600

Salvete Quirites

Now that the elections are over (well, almost), I offer my
congratulations to all our new magistrati, plebeian and otherwise. The
collection of talent we've elected bodes very well for the coming year.

Now all we need are some praetores and our remaining quaestores. So,
don't relax quite yet. Instead, be sure to vote in the runoff election
coming up very soon. (Oh, and vote Labienus for praetor.)

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
Quicquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists...
From:	"jagatai" <jagatai@-------->
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:17:07 -0500

I agree completely with T. Labienus Fortunatus. I too see every member of my gens face to face daily, just myself and my wife. I think our gens is doing fine; I am not opposed to adopting new members, just hasn't happened yet, so I guess we'll have to fill our ranks the old-fashioned way :)

Gaius Quinctius Flamininus

Paterfamilias Gens Quinctia
----- Original Message -----
From: labienus@--------
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Citizens and lists...

Salvete Amuli Claudi et alii

I generally agree with you, mi Claudi. I just want to quibble over one point.

> Being an active mater/pater that's active within a gens is definitely
> reflected by the number of members.

I am an active pater who is quite active within his gens. Indeed, I interact
affectionately with every member of my gens on a face-to-face basis every day.
And yet, there are still only three Labieni. Quality does not ensure quantity.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Bashing of the SVR (a little long)
From:	"lsicinius" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 02:06:04 -0000

Salvete Draco Et Omnes,

I find it most intresting that Draco posted this defense of Bradius V.
Maurus Nee Formosanus.

I do recall a post from Bradius V. Maurus earlier this year voicing
his displeasure that the winning canidate for Tribune of the Plebs
failed to disclose that he was a Client of another Citizen, and Now we
find that Draco has also failed to disclose his role in founding an
alternative Roman group, something that could have had an effect on
people's desire to vote for him in the recent election.

I Also find it intresting that Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus is
listed as a member since May the first, and I wonder if he made his
membershp in this alternative organization known to the Senatus of
Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a Propraetor.

Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus seems to have spent a considerable
ammount of time on this alternative group rather than attending to the
duties of the office that he was elected to fill, and now it seems
that we have the SAME office filled by his former filis who is also a
member of this group. I certainly hope that we won't see a repeat of
this years performance.

--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites Novae Romae,
>
> Lately there has been a flood of e-mail and postings, but I would
like to
> draw your collective attention - especially that of the frequent
deleters of
> postings - to the following e-mail.
>
> Recently, my paterfamilias, the well-known Formosanus, has left Nova
Roma,
> along with my former gentiles Pica, Tacitus and 'Sokarus'. They
departed for
> an organisation which I am co-founder of, namely the Societas Via
Romana, a
> community similar to New Rome in the sense that it revolves around
the same
> theme, and shares some superficial resemblances. However, it is not a
> micronation, and while originally intended to do so, has no
aspiration to
> recreate the ancient Religio Romana. In a way, both organisations,
NR and
> SVR, can be considered siblings. I am member of both, and will hopefully
> remain so.
>
> In general, most reactions to this initiative have been neutral to
positive,
> which I am grateful for.
>
> However, there recently has been one particular posting that drew my
> attention. Its unthoughtful, disrespectful and ad hominem character
was made
> even worse by the fact that it was written by a man who is also a
> macronational politician, namely Lucius Sicinius Drusus. For the sake of
> brevity, I will only briefly adress the comments he made:

DRUSUS: Could you explain WHAT bearing my services to one of the US
Political Parties has on my choice of topics to discuss in the Back Alley?

>
> LSD:
> > > Well Formy/Florus is now a Senator, a Consul, AND the Princeps
Senatus,
> > > making our boy the bigest Patrican Ogrearch on Roman Road.
> > >
>
> SAD:
> While this sort of language is tolerable on the Back Alley list, I
do have a
> problem that it is allowed here. Of course, Drusus can not be held
guilty of
> this since he did not forward this ludicrous piece of prose to the main
> list, but it sure does testify of more than rational criticism alone. In
> respect to his being Princeps Senatus, he was that until we had 15
members.
> Afterwards, the function ceased to exist because we had formal
leadership
> under the form of Consuls. He has recently been democratically
elected as
> Consul.

DRUSUS: After ALL those posts that Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus
posted blasting the leaders of Nova Roma as Ogrearchs (as we say in
the BA) the Irony of him acheiving the same status was so funny that
it HAD to be committed on.

>
> And if I may note, he has never been an opponent of patricians.
Supporting
> the plebeian cause does not mean being opposed to patricians.
>
> LSD:
> > > The Formyland Constitution has some nice twists too!
> > >
> > > Like this little clause.
> > >
> > > (d) Membership in or public alignment with neo-fascist,
ultra-rightest,
> > > ultra-leftist, racist, anti-semitic, totalitarian or terrorist
> > > organisations is considered adequate reason for denial or
withdrawal of
> > > membership. Failure to mention such affiliation or orientation
at time
> > > of membership application is due cause for summary expulsion by both
> > > Censores acting collegially if discovered within one year of the
> > > granting of membership, without right of provocatio. Subsequent
evidence
> > > of such affiliations if discovered shall be reported to the
Praetores
> > > for investigation and possible expulsion trial, or to the
Magister Morum
> > > if one has been appointed.
> > >
> > > Isn't that Wonderful? Our Champion of openess is ready to expell
those
> > > who's Macro national politics fail to meet HIS standards!
Everyone that
> > > Formy accused of being far right raise your hand!! You are Expelled!
> > >
>
> SAD:
> (1) You cleverly forgot that the clause also mentions
"ultra-leftist", which
> people have accused him (and me) of. So if we follow your flawed
reasoning,
> he should expel himself.
> (2) Do you honestly think that fascists or totalitarianists are
allowed in
> any decent organisation?
> (3) Florus cannot expel people from SVR at his whim. He simply does
not have
> that power.

DRUSUS: I Was using Irony in my Back Alley post, but that clause is
VERY dangerous because of it's total lack of precession in it's
phrases. The Communist Party has a large following in Italy. To an
American they are extreme left wing, while I have seen many Europeans
claim that the US Republican party is Far Right. Those terms depend
too much on WHO is making the definition and this clause is a danger
to disadents in any organization.

snip
>
> SAD:
> I have come to the conclusion that not only you are making a fool out of
> yourself as a politician, you are also presenting falsehoods and
> misinterpretations to Nova Roma about the Societas Via Romana, which
does
> not exactly do you and your reputation credit. Your mail did not
expose *us*
> as malicious, but exposed *you* as sensationalist and vulgar.
>
> We have a saying over here: "last laugh, best laugh".
>
> Valete bene,
> S. Apollonius Draco

Frankly this post was intended for the Back Alley, Though I have NO
problems with it appearing on the Main List, other than the fact that
my choice of words would have been different for this more formal
forum, but the central ideas would have been the same.

That is the same theme that I posted earlier this year when I
announced my views that Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus was a totaly
untrustworthy person and not fit to hold the postion of Propraetor.

I mentioned the duplicity that he had shown up to that time as reasons
that he was unfit for an office of public trust, since that time he
has added his role in SVR, which he did NOT make plain to the citizens
of Nova Roma, and which I have to reason to think he made plain to the
Senate of Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a Propraetor.
Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus has proven that he is unfit to hold
an office of public trust by his double dealing, and SVR will rue the
day they entrusted this man.

I will also bluntly state that I am disapointed that Draco failed to
make Nova Roma aware of his actions, and that running for an office in
Nova Roma while organizing an alternitive organization and hiding
these actions behind the closed European List and the Closed SVR list
do NOT do much to inspire trust in him.

I have also noticed that SVR's rolls contain a citizen from Brazil
named Limitanus, which I doubt is mere chance, so it seems we may have
yet another canidate who has been less than honest with the voters of
Nova Roma, though in this case one who was NOT elected so we don't
have the problem of another Magistrate who is trying to serve two
masters while being less than honest with one of them.

If there are any more Canidates in the undecided races or newly
elected Magistrates, or Propraetors who are involved with SVR, I call
on them to at least have the decency to make a belated statement
detailing their dealings with SVR.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus,
Propraetor America Austrorientalis


Subject:	[novaroma] Thank you
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:05:38 -0500

Salve,

I would like to take a moment to thank all of the cives who voted for me in
this election. I am looking forward to another term of service as your
Curatrix Sermonis. I am sure the coming year will see much prosperity and
growth for our Nation and it is an honor to have the opportunity to continue
to serve you.

I would also like to thank *every* cives who voted in this election,
regardless of who they cast their ballot for. It is a sacred right and duty
for all citizens to make their wishes known and I am very grateful for all
of you who have done so.

Last, but not least, I thank every citizen who stood for office. It is
vital to our growth as a Nation that we have active interested capable
individuals willing to serve. Be proud, regardless of whether you saw
victory or not, for in simply running you have done a great service.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis
Lictor


Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations
From:	"lsicinius" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 02:22:24 -0000

Salvete,

Congratulations to our New Consuls, Censor, and the other Magistrates!!

And to the many worthy canidates who came up short, my condolances,
With the canidates in most of the races there was no way that Nova
Roma could lose in this Election, and I hope that you will try again
next year.

To the Canidates in the Runoffs My Fortuna smile apon you.

Vale,

L. Sicinius Drusus


Subject:	[novaroma] GRATIAS TIBI AGO!!!!!!
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 02:30:02 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

I am having a Budweiser.........*the Propraetrix of Beers*!!!

Despite our apparent ownership of an electorial system, whose
complications we are having some difficulty troubleshooting,
I am elated and I feel blessed......very much a victrix.

I am deeply touched by your support, your prayers, your friendship,
and your confidence that I could serve you as Urban Praetor (and I
still shall, if another election gives me this opportunity).

Seriously, this is indeed the most meaningful victory of all.......to
have so darned many friends, and mentors (not patrons!).

Victories like this stay within a person's heart...the administrative
processes......well, we can just plug away at those somemore...we will
straighten things out.

After all, aren't we Roman........hmm......?????

FOR ALL YOU DO........THIS BUD'S FOR YOU!!!

A hug to each of you!!!!!!!! :)

Love,
Po

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Subject:	[novaroma] GRATIAS TIBI AGO!!!!!!
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 02:30:12 -0000


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] HUMOR ALERT (was Congrats)
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:34:34 EST

In a message dated 12/18/01 5:56:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
labienus@-------- writes:

> Now all we need are some praetores and our remaining quaestores. So,
> don't relax quite yet. Instead, be sure to vote in the runoff election
> coming up very soon. (Oh, and vote Labienus for praetor.)
>

Humor Alert Humor Alert
Humor Alert
Oh please. (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) That is pretty self
serving isn't it? (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) Next you will be
using subliminal messages (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) to get your
campaign message (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) across. That is
some thing (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) I would never stoop to
(Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) I have dignatis!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Endorsement
From:	mark zona <pitdog2002@-------->
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:19:10 -0800 (PST)

> Salve!

For some reason I can't put my finger on, I feel
compelled to vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Preator.

Vale!

Marcus Antonius Zeno

> >
>
> Humor Alert Humor Alert
>
> Humor Alert
> Oh please. (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> That is pretty self
> serving isn't it? (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> Praetor) Next you will be
> using subliminal messages (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus
> for Praetor) to get your
> campaign message (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> Praetor) across. That is
> some thing (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> I would never stoop to
> (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) I have
> dignatis!
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] ELECTION RESULTS
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 04:25:10 +0100

cassius622@-------- wrote:
> ELECTION RESULTS:
>
> The results for the C Populi Tributa are as follows :
>
> Questores
> - Titus Octavius Pius with 20 tribus

Salvete, quirites.

I would like to thank all of you for considering me worthy of this great
honor, I was rather convinced that I would not be among those elected in
the first rounds. Your faith in me warms my heart.

Also, I want to congratulate all other elected for service to our res
publica, in particular the future consul and curator araneum Marcus
Octavius Germanicus and the future curule aedile Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus. I know all of you will do well, and I am honored to be a
part of the same government as you. I have a feeling we will achieve
great things. "Ad Astra!"

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

P.S. Wrong post for this, but...I just saw Lord of the Rings, if you
haven't seen it yet, why are you reading this? Off with you! D.S.

--

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Endorsement
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 04:30:59 +0100

mark zona wrote:
> For some reason I can't put my finger on, I feel
> compelled to vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Preator.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus wrote:
> > Oh please. (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> > That is pretty self
> > serving isn't it? (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> > Praetor) Next you will be
> > using subliminal messages (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus
> > for Praetor) to get your
> > campaign message (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> > Praetor) across. That is
> > some thing (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> > I would never stoop to
> > (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) I have
> > dignatis!

Salvete, quirites.

I write this to inform you of a grave danger. Using subliminal messages,
Quintus Fabius Maximus has conditioned Marcus Antonius Zeno into voting
for him! We must put an end to this dreadful threa(t/d), right now,
before more innocent citizens falls victims to these attacks on their
subconcious!

Incidentially, I believe I should vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
Praetor...noooo! Not me too!!!

;)

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

--

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari


Subject:	[novaroma] Bienvenida Lucilla Quinta Magia /Welcome/Maximo gaudio te accipio
From:	"luciuspompeius" <danielovi@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:41:28 -0000

Spanish / Espa�ol /Hispanice
Salve Civis novissima argentinae Lucilla Quinta Magia.
Como propraetor provincial quiero darte la m�s c�lida bienvenida a la
provincia novaromana de Argentina. Sos la primera mujer ciudadana
argentina novaromana. Felicitaciones!. Ahora somos 16!.
Un saludo cordial
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae

English / Ingl�s / Anglice
Salve Civis novissima argentinae Lucilla Quinta Magia.
As propraetor provincialis I wish to give you the most warmed welcome
to the provincia novaromana argentinae. You are the first woman
citizen argentine novaroman. Congratulations!. Now we are 16!
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae

Latin / Lat�n / Latine
Salve Civis novissima argentinae Lucilla Quinta Magia.
Maximo gaudio te accipio civis novissima novaromana argentina. Prima
femina provincialis es. Te gratulor!. Nunc sedecim sumus!
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Endorsement
From:	"lsicinius" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:42:54 -0000

Salve,

It's clear what we have to do to end the Subliminal messages,

ELECT Q. FABIUS MAXIMUS as Praetor.

(Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)

L. Sicinius Drusus
Who would never stoop to Subliminal (Vote Fabius) Messages.

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> mark zona wrote:
> > For some reason I can't put my finger on, I feel
> > compelled to vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Preator.
> >
> > Q. Fabius Maximus wrote:
> > > Oh please. (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> > > That is pretty self
> > > serving isn't it? (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> > > Praetor) Next you will be
> > > using subliminal messages (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus
> > > for Praetor) to get your
> > > campaign message (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> > > Praetor) across. That is
> > > some thing (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> > > I would never stoop to
> > > (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) I have
> > > dignatis!
>
> Salvete, quirites.
>
> I write this to inform you of a grave danger. Using subliminal messages,
> Quintus Fabius Maximus has conditioned Marcus Antonius Zeno into voting
> for him! We must put an end to this dreadful threa(t/d), right now,
> before more innocent citizens falls victims to these attacks on their
> subconcious!
>
> Incidentially, I believe I should vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> Praetor...noooo! Not me too!!!
>
> ;)
>
> Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> --
>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari


Subject:	[novaroma] Disclosure Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:34:07 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

Outside being made aware of its existance, and the fact that M.
Apollonius Formosanus is a member, and some others that I am since
aware of in conversation, I am not affilitated with the Societas Via
Romanus.

Do I hold them any ill-will? No. But I feel within my heart that my
place is here in Nova Roma. As long as I am here, I shall remain
committed to her. That is my decision.

If any particular group were actively trying to cause unfounded harm
to Nova Roma, to wit, her public dignatus and her right to exist, I
would be forced to draw the line and say, "OK, I'm mad", but merely
existing, even if it's because of a disagreement with NR, is not a
problem, as I see it. You play in *your* backyard, and we'll play in
*ours* ok, and things will be better that way. Perhaps things will be
different after a brief time out, perhaps not. But it's better than a
major "Hatfields vs. McCoy's" Environment, which benefits nobody.

No single person or one group can claim a patent on the celebration of
Romanitas or the worship/honour of the deities of Rome, any more than
one particular Christian denomination has a patent on the way of the
Galilean, to offer comparison. Nor does one Wiccan coven *own* wicca.

My only concern with co-affiliation with two groups, is whether or not
the effort will be devoted to NR, with equal measure as the devotion
to another group, as L. Sicinius alluded to. (I am speaking
theoretically, Draco, with no prejudice against you, please
understand).

Another consideration is the potential existance of conflict of
interest, be it political, social, idealogical and the like.

I for one, as an example, was morally forced to unsubscribe from a
group,in which the
moderator/head hauncho was complaining about NR and its Paganism.
This individual was also at the time a citizen of NR. That did not
sit well with me, and I told him so on his list, and unsubbed
afterward. I felt to be a part of his group was incongruent with my
oath as Propraetrix, and would present personal discord, as I do not
subscribe to the "I'm right and you're wrong" path of spirituality.

************************

To further disclose, I am nobody's client. Save the nice man who
foils, cuts and colours my hair every 2 months or so!

I have many friends in NR, from around the globe those I consider
mentors or role models, who have taught me much. For this I am very
grateful.

**********************

I am committed to a united res publica, and I am willing to do all I
can to unite us as a whole. Naturally, conflicts will occur, and
people will leave. We cannot please everyone all the time, but we can
strive to make Nova Roma as appealing as possible, with her virtues,
sodalitates, amicitia, concommitantly rendering reverence, where we
possibly and practically can, to the way of the Ancients which we are
here to embrace.

*********************

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
Nova Roma


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] What's this?
From:	Antonius Corvus Septimius <antoniuscorvusseptimius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:36:04 -0800 (PST)

Salve Drac!

> Salvete!
>
> I came across this:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Aristocracy/
>
> Could anyone explain me what kind of group this is?

SEPTIMIUS: One that you will not be involved with..
vale bene

> Valete bene,
> Draco
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Off topic - Lord of the Rings! :)
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:22:23 EST

Salvete,

Sorry, but I couldn't help but post an off topic message. Patricia Cassia and
I have just come back from a pre U.S. opening of "Lord of the Rings"...

WOW.

It's not exactly true to the books, but I can't wait to see it again! Truly
awe-inspiring stuff, and true to most of the spirit of Tolkien's work, in my
opinion.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	[novaroma] Thank you!
From:	"cfdflaviusdio" <3s@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:33:41 -0000

Caius Flavius Diocletianus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

I want to say a humble but heartful "Thank you" to all citizens who
endorsed me voted for me. I�ll do my very best to serve our res
publica well.

My special thanks to Priscilla Vedia Serena. You made a quite fair
campaign, and I�m sure that you would be a fine Censor, too. Your kind
congrats are very honourable.

To the candidates who will go to the second elections: I wish you all
the best, good luck and the bless of the gods for the upcoming votes.

To the elected magistrates: My heartful congratulations to all of you.
I wish you all a good hand for your term of office. May the gods be
with you!

Addressed to all candidates who were not elected: Your run for office
showed both honour and dedication, and I really hope that you will
show the same degree of dedication next year. Nova Roma needs you!

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] GRATIAS TIBI AGO!!!!!!
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2001 23:52:16 -0800 (PST)

Ave,
Budweiser.....twitch, twitch.....Honey Brown all
the way
Quintus Cornelius Caesar

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Bashing of the SVR (a little long)
From:	"curiobritannicus" <marcusaemiliusscaurus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:20:33 -0000

Salve Lucius Sicinius Drusus,

> I do recall a post from Bradius V. Maurus earlier this year voicing
> his displeasure that the winning canidate for Tribune of the Plebs
> failed to disclose that he was a Client of another Citizen, and Now
we
> find that Draco has also failed to disclose his role in founding an
> alternative Roman group, something that could have had an effect on
> people's desire to vote for him in the recent election.

To be a client of another civis could be important in making
political decisions. I fail to see how being involved with another
organisation could have the same impact. If so, then all ye members
of the SCA declare yourselves! And you of the re-enactment legions
too! Frankly, it just makes no difference, unless the SVR were
trying to inflict damage on NR in some way.

However, for those of you who are uneasy about someone being in more
than one organisation: I, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, am a
member of the Societas Via Romana.

> I Also find it intresting that Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus is
> listed as a member since May the first, and I wonder if he made his
> membershp in this alternative organization known to the Senatus of
> Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a Propraetor.

Why would it matter?

> I mentioned the duplicity that he had shown up to that time as
reasons
> that he was unfit for an office of public trust, since that time he
> has added his role in SVR, which he did NOT make plain to the
citizens
> of Nova Roma, and which I have to reason to think he made plain to
the
> Senate of Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a Propraetor.
> Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus has proven that he is unfit to hold
> an office of public trust by his double dealing, and SVR will rue
the
> day they entrusted this man.

I think your face may be getting a little red, mi Drusus. You're
making a great deal of fuss about the SVR, but remember one thing;
Draco was the one who told the main list of the SVR. If they were
planning some great plot to take over NR, do you really think the
best strategy would be to tell everyone of the conspirators'
existence? If we intended any harm to NR, do you think we would have
told you of SVR's existence?

> I have also noticed that SVR's rolls contain a citizen from Brazil
> named Limitanus, which I doubt is mere chance, so it seems we may
have
> yet another canidate who has been less than honest with the voters
of
> Nova Roma,

Had you decided to run for Tribune, would you have told NR of every
small organisation that you belonged to? Every charity org, every
political party, everything? No. Because they do not affect what
sort of person you are, nor what talents you have, within NR. And
nor does SVR.

Bene vale,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Bashing of the SVR (a little long)
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:17:22 -0800 (PST)

Salve,

Does the term "conflict of Intrest" mean any thing to
you? It seems to mean something to the SVA which has
the following in it's application.

"Do you belong to any other Roman, Classical, Civic,
Political, Professional, Religious, Artistic or
Charitable organisations? If so, please list, together
with any offices you may hold."

That section IS marked as required information.

One Member of the SVA is Bradius V. Maurus Nee
Formosanus. I have been informed privatly that Gian G
Reali Nee Piscinus is also a member of SVA. Limitanus
is also listed as a member. These three men have shown
a considerable level of hostility towards the
Magistrates of Nova Roma in the past.

Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus made this statement
on April 13th in the CPlT mail list.

" I am rather surprised, I must say, that you
announced your clientship to Sulla *after* the
election. It is possible that some of us would have
liked to know about this liaison with such a
controversial figure *before* voting."

Yet we see his allies holding back on disclosing a
"liaison" with at least THREE very "controversial
figures" who have repeatadly shown disdain for the
Senate and Magistrates of Nova Roma,and whom are
condicting the "liaison" in an organization that lacks
the open Forum that Nova Roma has.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- curiobritannicus
<marcusaemiliusscaurus@--------> wrote:
> Salve Lucius Sicinius Drusus,
>
> > I do recall a post from Bradius V. Maurus earlier
> this year voicing
> > his displeasure that the winning canidate for
> Tribune of the Plebs
> > failed to disclose that he was a Client of another
> Citizen, and Now
> we
> > find that Draco has also failed to disclose his
> role in founding an
> > alternative Roman group, something that could have
> had an effect on
> > people's desire to vote for him in the recent
> election.
>
> To be a client of another civis could be important
> in making
> political decisions. I fail to see how being
> involved with another
> organisation could have the same impact. If so,
> then all ye members
> of the SCA declare yourselves! And you of the
> re-enactment legions
> too! Frankly, it just makes no difference, unless
> the SVR were
> trying to inflict damage on NR in some way.
>
> However, for those of you who are uneasy about
> someone being in more
> than one organisation: I, Marcus Scribonius Curio
> Britannicus, am a
> member of the Societas Via Romana.
>
> > I Also find it intresting that Bradius V. Maurus
> Nee Formosanus is
> > listed as a member since May the first, and I
> wonder if he made his
> > membershp in this alternative organization known
> to the Senatus of
> > Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a
> Propraetor.
>
> Why would it matter?
>
> > I mentioned the duplicity that he had shown up to
> that time as
> reasons
> > that he was unfit for an office of public trust,
> since that time he
> > has added his role in SVR, which he did NOT make
> plain to the
> citizens
> > of Nova Roma, and which I have to reason to think
> he made plain to
> the
> > Senate of Nova Roma when he was attempting to
> become a Propraetor.
> > Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus has proven that
> he is unfit to hold
> > an office of public trust by his double dealing,
> and SVR will rue
> the
> > day they entrusted this man.
>
> I think your face may be getting a little red, mi
> Drusus. You're
> making a great deal of fuss about the SVR, but
> remember one thing;
> Draco was the one who told the main list of the SVR.
> If they were
> planning some great plot to take over NR, do you
> really think the
> best strategy would be to tell everyone of the
> conspirators'
> existence? If we intended any harm to NR, do you
> think we would have
> told you of SVR's existence?
>
> > I have also noticed that SVR's rolls contain a
> citizen from Brazil
> > named Limitanus, which I doubt is mere chance, so
> it seems we may
> have
> > yet another canidate who has been less than honest
> with the voters
> of
> > Nova Roma,
>
> Had you decided to run for Tribune, would you have
> told NR of every
> small organisation that you belonged to? Every
> charity org, every
> political party, everything? No. Because they do
> not affect what
> sort of person you are, nor what talents you have,
> within NR. And
> nor does SVR.
>
>
> Bene vale,
> Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
>
>

__________________________________________________
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your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com


Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations Magistrates 2755 AUC
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:52:45 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

I think Merlinia and I have the same type of computer (grin) as mine
wasn't cooperating too well last night, either.

Too many people on line, I think :)

Anyway, my heartfelt congratulations to those magistrates elected to
serve the res publica next year.

My best wishes to each of you as you undertake your duties.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo


Subject:	[novaroma] Gratias Vobis Ago
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gaius=20Quirinus=20Caesar?= <gaius_quirinus_caesar@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:46:22 +0100 (CET)

Gius Quirinus Caesar Quiritibus SPD

I will thank everybody who vote for me in the last
election: I hope I may mantain what I said in my
candidacy message.
It is a great step for me -I'm citizen only since
june- and for my Provincia: Italia has never had
central magistrates, but the next yaer we will be two
-I and franciscus Apulus-.

I will gratulate with Marcus Audens: you superated me
for just 4 tribes, you're so lucky! :)

Congratulations to all my future collegues:
Decius Cornelius, Titus Octavius Pius, Quintus Fabius
Maximus. I hope we may work together for the growing
of Nova Roma

Once again: THANK YOU!

Vale,
Gaius Quirinus Caesar

______________________________________________________________________

Iscriviti al Meglio della Settimana, la newsletter di Yahoo!
Per saperne di pi� vai alla pagina: http://buongiorno.yahoo.it


Subject:	[novaroma] New NR Group
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gaius=20Quirinus=20Caesar?= <gaius_quirinus_caesar@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:56:31 +0100 (CET)

Salvete omnes,

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nr_populares/

For *everybody* thinking NR have something wrong and
will change it.

______________________________________________________________________

Iscriviti al Meglio della Settimana, la newsletter di Yahoo!
Per saperne di pi� vai alla pagina: http://buongiorno.yahoo.it


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Bashing of the SVR (a little long)
From:	"cinnabari" <darkelf@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:46:47 -0000

Salve:

Hmm. I recall that one of the reasons Austroccidentalis lost its Propraetor was that she recommended another Roman org to
potential NR members... and ironically, her replacement as our Propraetor is a member of that same org... if not the founder
himself.

Clearly, one can serve two Roman organizations just fine.

Vale,
P. Clodia Cinnabari

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Congrats
From:	"Marcus Sentius Claudius" <msentius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:10:56 +1100

Congrats to all of the winners, especially the Consuls, who will no doubt
lead our Republic into a new era.

Marcus Sentius Claudius
----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Bashing of the SVR (a little long)

> Salve,
>
> Does the term "conflict of Intrest" mean any thing to
> you? It seems to mean something to the SVA which has
> the following in it's application.
>
> "Do you belong to any other Roman, Classical, Civic,
> Political, Professional, Religious, Artistic or
> Charitable organisations? If so, please list, together
> with any offices you may hold."
>
> That section IS marked as required information.
>
> One Member of the SVA is Bradius V. Maurus Nee
> Formosanus. I have been informed privatly that Gian G
> Reali Nee Piscinus is also a member of SVA. Limitanus
> is also listed as a member. These three men have shown
> a considerable level of hostility towards the
> Magistrates of Nova Roma in the past.
>
> Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus made this statement
> on April 13th in the CPlT mail list.
>
> " I am rather surprised, I must say, that you
> announced your clientship to Sulla *after* the
> election. It is possible that some of us would have
> liked to know about this liaison with such a
> controversial figure *before* voting."
>
> Yet we see his allies holding back on disclosing a
> "liaison" with at least THREE very "controversial
> figures" who have repeatadly shown disdain for the
> Senate and Magistrates of Nova Roma,and whom are
> condicting the "liaison" in an organization that lacks
> the open Forum that Nova Roma has.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
> --- curiobritannicus
> <marcusaemiliusscaurus@--------> wrote:
> > Salve Lucius Sicinius Drusus,
> >
> > > I do recall a post from Bradius V. Maurus earlier
> > this year voicing
> > > his displeasure that the winning canidate for
> > Tribune of the Plebs
> > > failed to disclose that he was a Client of another
> > Citizen, and Now
> > we
> > > find that Draco has also failed to disclose his
> > role in founding an
> > > alternative Roman group, something that could have
> > had an effect on
> > > people's desire to vote for him in the recent
> > election.
> >
> > To be a client of another civis could be important
> > in making
> > political decisions. I fail to see how being
> > involved with another
> > organisation could have the same impact. If so,
> > then all ye members
> > of the SCA declare yourselves! And you of the
> > re-enactment legions
> > too! Frankly, it just makes no difference, unless
> > the SVR were
> > trying to inflict damage on NR in some way.
> >
> > However, for those of you who are uneasy about
> > someone being in more
> > than one organisation: I, Marcus Scribonius Curio
> > Britannicus, am a
> > member of the Societas Via Romana.
> >
> > > I Also find it intresting that Bradius V. Maurus
> > Nee Formosanus is
> > > listed as a member since May the first, and I
> > wonder if he made his
> > > membershp in this alternative organization known
> > to the Senatus of
> > > Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a
> > Propraetor.
> >
> > Why would it matter?
> >
> > > I mentioned the duplicity that he had shown up to
> > that time as
> > reasons
> > > that he was unfit for an office of public trust,
> > since that time he
> > > has added his role in SVR, which he did NOT make
> > plain to the
> > citizens
> > > of Nova Roma, and which I have to reason to think
> > he made plain to
> > the
> > > Senate of Nova Roma when he was attempting to
> > become a Propraetor.
> > > Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus has proven that
> > he is unfit to hold
> > > an office of public trust by his double dealing,
> > and SVR will rue
> > the
> > > day they entrusted this man.
> >
> > I think your face may be getting a little red, mi
> > Drusus. You're
> > making a great deal of fuss about the SVR, but
> > remember one thing;
> > Draco was the one who told the main list of the SVR.
> > If they were
> > planning some great plot to take over NR, do you
> > really think the
> > best strategy would be to tell everyone of the
> > conspirators'
> > existence? If we intended any harm to NR, do you
> > think we would have
> > told you of SVR's existence?
> >
> > > I have also noticed that SVR's rolls contain a
> > citizen from Brazil
> > > named Limitanus, which I doubt is mere chance, so
> > it seems we may
> > have
> > > yet another canidate who has been less than honest
> > with the voters
> > of
> > > Nova Roma,
> >
> > Had you decided to run for Tribune, would you have
> > told NR of every
> > small organisation that you belonged to? Every
> > charity org, every
> > political party, everything? No. Because they do
> > not affect what
> > sort of person you are, nor what talents you have,
> > within NR. And
> > nor does SVR.
> >
> >
> > Bene vale,
> > Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Endorsement
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:52:29 US/Central

Salvete

> For some reason I can't put my finger on, I feel
> compelled to vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Preator.

Odd. I still feel compelled to vote for T Labienus Fortunatus. Perhaps it's
that stubborn Stoic mind of mine.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Thank You very much and Congratulations
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:43:41 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

I want to thank all that voted for me as Curule Aedile from the bottom of
my heart! I will do my best to live up to your expectations.

I also want to congratulate my future collegue Illustrus Honorable Amulius
Claudius Petrus to his election as Curule Aedile! We have already discussed
some cooperation and I look forward to it.

I also want to Congratulate all the other elected magistrates! Congratulations!

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
soon to be Curule Aedile of Nova Roma
still Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Endorsement
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:57:29 -0000

---

Salvete Omnes:

The cold, hard truth of the matter is that ya can't vote for any one
of us a Preator. There are no *Preators* in the Nova Roma
Magisterium. Nope, notta one, precious diddly :)

Grin :)

Pompeia

In novaroma@--------, labienus@t... wrote:
> Salvete
>
> > For some reason I can't put my finger on, I feel
> > compelled to vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Preator.
>
> Odd. I still feel compelled to vote for T Labienus Fortunatus.
Perhaps it's
> that stubborn Stoic mind of mine.
>
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations
From:	"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:07:37 -0000

To all the newly elected magistrates, and thanks to the unsuccessful
candidates for contributing.

Remember to Vote in the run offs.

And Oh yeah...Gaius Popillius Laenas for Quaestor!!!

Valete,
Popillius


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ELECTION RESULTS
From:	"alexprobus1" <alexprobus1@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:35:31 -0000

Salvete Qviriti,

My best congratulations to all of you with the newly elected
magistrates. I wish them a successful period of term in office.
I am extremly glad that some of my good friends there like Senator
Diocletianus were successful.

Bene valete

Alexander I.C. Probus


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Off topic - Lord of the Rings! :)
From:	"gaius_minucius_hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:50:51 -0000

Salvete!

I'm taking my GF to see it tonight, and I can't wait!!!! I feel like
a little kid waiting for christmas morning! I've been waiting for
this movie to come out since I was twelve! Yay!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

--- In novaroma@--------, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Sorry, but I couldn't help but post an off topic message. Patricia
Cassia and
> I have just come back from a pre U.S. opening of "Lord of the
Rings"...
>
> WOW.
>
> It's not exactly true to the books, but I can't wait to see it
again! Truly
> awe-inspiring stuff, and true to most of the spirit of Tolkien's
work, in my
> opinion.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Off topic - Lord of the Rings! :)
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:52:48 -0800

UGH I have to wait til Sunday.....Damn I wish I could see it sooner!

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: gaius_minucius_hadrianus
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:50 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Off topic - Lord of the Rings! :)

Salvete!

I'm taking my GF to see it tonight, and I can't wait!!!! I feel like
a little kid waiting for christmas morning! I've been waiting for
this movie to come out since I was twelve! Yay!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

--- In novaroma@--------, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Sorry, but I couldn't help but post an off topic message. Patricia
Cassia and
> I have just come back from a pre U.S. opening of "Lord of the
Rings"...
>
> WOW.
>
> It's not exactly true to the books, but I can't wait to see it
again! Truly
> awe-inspiring stuff, and true to most of the spirit of Tolkien's
work, in my
> opinion.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Off topic - Lord of the Rings! :)
From:	"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:11:15 -0000

IMO, one of the greatest books ever written.

Gaius Popillius Laenas


Subject:	[novaroma] Congrats & Run-off Election!
From:	"gaius_minucius_hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:15:20 -0000

Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Omnibus Civibus S.P.D.

I would just like to offer my heartfelt congratulations to our newly
elected magistrates, and wish them the best of luck during thier
upcomming terms of office! Ave!

I would also like to remind everyone that it's not over yet, and
there still are run-off elections for Praetor and Quaestor comming
up, so please keep on voting!

Finally, having said that...I would like to remind everyone that I'm
one of those canididates running for Quaestor in the run-off
election, and was hoping you would cast your vote for me...please?
Pretty please?? =)

A bit about myself for the inquiring voter:

I have been a citizen of Nova Roman since August of 2000, and
have been serving in the offices of Legatus and Scriba Propraetoris
since February 2001. In my time in those offices I have organized
three face-to-face get-togethers in Nova Britannia and completely
revamped and hosted the Provincial website (www.shinjikun.com). I am
an active member of the Sodalitas Militarium, and an officer of the
Nova Roma sponsored Legio VI Victrix. I am one of NR's newly
appointed Lictors and practicioner of the Religio Romana. I am a
veteran of the U.S. Army, with 8 years of active service in the
Infantry and Armor branches, and 3 years of service with the
Massachusetts Army National Guard. I have just recently enlisted with
the Mass. Air National Guard and will attending the U.S. Air Force's
Explosive Ordanence Disposal (EOD) school in April, which I will
hopefully complete in October with all my fingers in place. =)
I see the office of Quaestor becoming an increasingly critical office
in NR with the advent of a taxation system, and I am confident in my
ability to work together with the other magistrates to effectively
adminsister NR soon to be growing treasury. I hope you all agree!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Lictor Curiatas
Legatus of Massachusetts
Scriba Propraetoris, Nova Britannia

ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] ELECTION RESULTS
From:	Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:23:02 -0800 (PST)

I wish to congratulate my mentor, M. Octavius
Germanicus to the post of senior Consul, and the
beautiful and tallented Pompeia Cornelia to the post
of Praetor.

Also congrats to everyone else who have been recently
elected to a new position.

M. Scipio Africanus

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: ELECTION RESULTS
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:23:05 -0600 (CST)

Salvete Quirites,

I thank all citizens who have expressed their congratulations to me
and to the other successful candidates.

To those who did not succeed in attaining office, I thank you for
trying, and ask you to consider serving in appointed provincial
offices. Your services will still be needed through the next year.

We are not finished electing magistrates for 2755. The "run-off"
election begins tomorrow, 6pm Roma (Noon US/Eastern), in which we
will try once more to elect two praetores, two quaestores, and
one rogator.

Shortly thereafter, if the Lex Vedia de Tribuni is ratified by
the Senate, the Plebeian citizens shall elect three more Tribunes
of the Plebs, for a total of five. This election will be called
by Tribunes Arminius and Salix, during the new year.

When I become Consul on January 1st, I shall appoint as my
Accensi, or advisors, Senatores Antonius Gryllus Graecus and
Titus Labienus Fortunatus, who are experts on religion and law,
respectively.

I invite all citizens to come to the Nova Roma Chat Forum,
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/chat/chat on January 1st, and I invite
all newly-elected magistrates to make their opening statements
there. Transcripts will be later placed in the archives.
The starting time for this public gathering will be
1800 Rome, 1700 UK, 1200 US/Eastern, 900 US/Pacific, Tue. Jan 1 2002.

Valete, Octavius.
Senior Consul-elect, MMDCCLV

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator, Nova Roma


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ELECTION RESULTS
From:	Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:27:16 -0600

Avete Omnes!

Looks like another good set of Magistrates coming into office with the New Year.

As a long time Cives, my thanks to all the candidates.
Standing for office is a good sign of commitment to that
which we are trying to build.

My heartfelt congratulations to those who have been elected.
I look forward to another year of growth (and contention ,-)

May the runoff election run smoothly.

And,

May All That Is Holy smile upon the People and Res Publica!
Blessings of the many Holy Seasons to All!

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html

Aut mulsum aut bellum!
(either mead, or war!)

/}
��{X|:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\}


Subject:	[novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:28:44 US/Central

Salvete Quirites

Though I do not believe that any connection I might have with the SVR has any
bearing on my obligations to Nova Roma, or on my ability to perform my duties
should I be elected, it is quite possible that, as I have made no effort to
hide my tracks on the SVR list (there was, and is, no reason to), one of my
opponents will attempt to make some political hay out of the fact that I have
posted to both the SVR's main list and its list dedicated to philosophy.

I am not a member of the SVR, the SCA, the Ermine Street Guard, any legion re-
enactment unit, the classics department of any university, or any other Roman-
or history-related group aside from Nova Roma. I do occasionally engage in
conversations with members of such organizations on those topics that I find
interesting. Some of these people are ex-cives of Nova Roma. That I can
remain friendly with people who dislike some of the things that I like is both
normal and, I believe, one of my good points.

That out of the way, I urge you, O Quirites, to vote for me on my merits, and
not against me due to this non-issue. I will make an excellent praetor if
elected, and I will (and do) take the duties of that office quite seriously.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ELECTION RESULTS
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:50:39 -0000

---Ahh..........Po blushes.......:)

But, however, and notwishstanding.......

We are to have a run off election for Praetor, because, the numbers
just "won't add up" :)

Thanks anyway, Propraetor suffectus

Po

In novaroma@--------, Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@--------> wrote:
>
> I wish to congratulate my mentor, M. Octavius
> Germanicus to the post of senior Consul, and the
> beautiful and tallented Pompeia Cornelia to the post
> of Praetor.
>
> Also congrats to everyone else who have been recently
> elected to a new position.
>
> M. Scipio Africanus
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:02:56 -0800 (PST)

Ave,
You may not have a "conflict of interest" by your
association with the SVR however others might. The
reason I say this is because there are those who are
anti-NR in the SVR and then those who are either
retaining friendly communication with the members of
the SVR. However, though there maybe SOME people in
the SVR who have not taken a hard line stance there
are those who have. For those who have, their dual
citizenship presents a conflict of interest. They
have an anti-NR attitude and lets say are elected to a
political position giving them a lot of sway. They
can then undermine NR or attempt to or prove to be
honorable and do the job and not serve their own
interests or desires
Quintus Cornelius Caesar

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:17:26 US/Central

Salve Quinte Corneli aliique

> You may not have a "conflict of interest" by your
> association with the SVR however others might.

I was not speaking for anyone but myself.

A quibble:
> For those who have, their dual citizenship presents
> a conflict of interest.

The SVR is not a micronation. Its members are therefore not citizens, and it
is impossible to have "dual citizenship" with the SVR. This is much akin to
saying that one could have dual citizenship with the SCA or the Federation of
American Scientists.

This is not to say that it is impossible to have a conflict of interest, or at
least available time, between the two groups. However, it behooves one to keep
the terms straight.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Congrats!!!!
From:	"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:25:28 -0000

May I offer my congratulations to all those successful in the recent elections. This republic is going to be extremely well served this coming year (make that two years, Diocletianus!!!!).

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1764
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:51:31 -0500

Salvete, Bene Quirites

Someone please help
(Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
me!
I have this dream (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
of a Very Large bowl of Five Beans!
What (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) does this mean?

IO SATRUNALIA!!!! (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:34:34 EST
From: QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Subject: Re: HUMOR ALERT (was Congrats)

In a message dated 12/18/01 5:56:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
labienus@-------- writes:

> Now all we need are some praetores and our remaining quaestores. So,
> don't relax quite yet. Instead, be sure to vote in the runoff election
> coming up very soon. (Oh, and vote Labienus for praetor.)
>

Humor Alert Humor Alert
Humor Alert
Oh please. (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) That is pretty self
serving isn't it? (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) Next you will be
using subliminal messages (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) to get
your
campaign message (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) across. That is
some thing (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) I would never stoop to
(Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) I have dignatis!
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:19:10 -0800 (PST)
From: mark zona <pitdog2002@-------->
Subject: Endorsement

> Salve!

For some reason I can't put my finger on, I feel
compelled to vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Preator.

Vale!

Marcus Antonius Zeno
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 04:30:59 +0100
From: Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Subject: Re: Endorsement

mark zona wrote:
> For some reason I can't put my finger on, I feel
> compelled to vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Preator.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus wrote:
> > Oh please. (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> > That is pretty self
> > serving isn't it? (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> > Praetor) Next you will be
> > using subliminal messages (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus
> > for Praetor) to get your
> > campaign message (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> > Praetor) across. That is
> > some thing (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> > I would never stoop to
> > (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) I have
> > dignatis!

Salvete, quirites.

I write this to inform you of a grave danger. Using subliminal messages,
Quintus Fabius Maximus has conditioned Marcus Antonius Zeno into voting
for him! We must put an end to this dreadful threa(t/d), right now,
before more innocent citizens falls victims to these attacks on their
subconcious!

Incidentially, I believe I should vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
Praetor...noooo! Not me too!!!
;)
Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 18
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:42:54 -0000
From: "lsicinius" <lsicinius@-------->
Subject: Re: Endorsement

Salve,

It's clear what we have to do to end the Subliminal messages,

ELECT Q. FABIUS MAXIMUS as Praetor.

(Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)

L. Sicinius Drusus
Who would never stoop to Subliminal (Vote Fabius) Messages.

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> mark zona wrote:
> > For some reason I can't put my finger on, I feel
> > compelled to vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Preator.
> >
> > Q. Fabius Maximus wrote:
> > > Oh please. (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> > > That is pretty self
> > > serving isn't it? (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> > > Praetor) Next you will be
> > > using subliminal messages (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus
> > > for Praetor) to get your
> > > campaign message (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> > > Praetor) across. That is
> > > some thing (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor)
> > > I would never stoop to
> > > (Vote for Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor) I have
> > > dignatis!
>
> Salvete, quirites.
>
> I write this to inform you of a grave danger. Using subliminal messages,
> Quintus Fabius Maximus has conditioned Marcus Antonius Zeno into voting
> for him! We must put an end to this dreadful threa(t/d), right now,
> before more innocent citizens falls victims to these attacks on their
> subconcious!
>
> Incidentially, I believe I should vote for Q Fabius Maximus for
> Praetor...noooo! Not me too!!!
>
> ;)
> Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.
> --
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:14:34 -0800 (PST)

Ave,
You may indeed have been solely referring to
yourself, but you are not the only one in Nova Roma
who has "membership" with the SVR. Therefore, I was
taking what you stated and amplifying it to apply to
all who may have citizenship with Nova Roma and
"membership" with the SVR. It is neither wrong nor
improper to do so because depending on the person it
can quite possibly present a conflict of interest.
You say that one does not have citoizenship with
the SVR as they would in Nova Roma but rather that
they have "membership". I will agree with you on that
since your constitution makes no mention of members
having citizenship so it is not a micronation.
However, the SVR constitution does state:
"The Societas Via Romana is a transnational
fellowship and community dedicated to the remembrance,
reenactment, and, as far as applicable, re-creation,
of the Roman heritage of Mankind..."
However, if the SVr is re-creating/re-enacting
the Roman ways then it requires citizenship. You
cannot elect government officials without citizens.
So how can it just be limited to membership rather
than citizenship?
Your constitution is also very hypocritical in
what it says. Under the "Membership and Gentes" title
section A, you state: Any person may apply for
membership on a basis of equality, regardless of race,
sex, sexual orientation, nationality, ethnic group,
language preference or religious conviction." But then
later in section D you state: "Membership in or public
alignment with neo-fascist, ultra-rightest,
ultra-leftist, racist, anti-semitic, totalitarian or
terrorist organisations is considered adequate reason
for denial or withdrawal of membership." So inessence
you will discriminate against some but not against
others!?
"Failure to mention such affiliation or
orientation at time of membership application is due
cause for summary expulsion....Subsequent evidence of
such affiliations if discovered shall be reported to
the Praetores for investigation and possible expulsion
trial..."----Can we inavsion of ones right to privacy!
"Complete liberty of conscience and belief, and
authority over personal and household rites and
practices"---totally contradicts section D
Ah here we go the rights of "members"--"The right
to vote in elections as members of the Comitia
Generalia "---this looks like signs of citizenship to
me.
vale,
Quintus Cornelius Caesar

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:22:27 -0600 (CST)

Salve Quinte Corneli,

You wrote to Titus Labienus:

> since your constitution makes no mention of members

> Your constitution is also very hypocritical...

Labienus has already stated that he is *not* a member of SVR,
therefore your use of the phrase "your constitution" is
extremely inappropriate. It is harmful to his reputation to
attempt to connect him to something he was not responsible for.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator, Nova Roma
Senior Consul-Elect, MMDCCLV (2002)


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:28:48 US/Central

Salvete Quinte Corneli aliique

> You may indeed have been solely referring to
> yourself, but you are not the only one in Nova Roma
> who has "membership" with the SVR.

Apparently, you didn't read my original message in this thread very closely. I
am not, and never have been, a member of the SVR.

> However, if the SVr is re-creating/re-enacting
> the Roman ways then it requires citizenship. You
> cannot elect government officials without citizens.
> So how can it just be limited to membership rather
> than citizenship?

Does re-enacting in a Roman legio require citizenship? Does re-enacting in a
Confederate US Civil War regiment require one to secede from the modern US?

And, does one need to be a citizen of the National Rifle Association in order
to vote for its president? Groups--from clubs to fraternities to national
organizations--vote internally for their leadership all the time. This does
not require citizenship.

> Your constitution is also very hypocritical in
> what it says.

It is not my constitution. I neither wrote nor am bound by the constitution of
the SVR. Indeed, I have not even read it. As I said before, I am on their
list because there are people I like there, and they often talk about things
that interest me--to whit, Roman history and philosophy.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] What's this?
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:30:30 +0100

Salve!

> >
> > I came across this:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Aristocracy/
> >
> > Could anyone explain me what kind of group this is?
>
>
> SEPTIMIUS: One that you will not be involved with..

Oooh I feel soooo left out!

Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:34:18 -0800

Ave,

I agree with you, Senator. However, this is going to be an issue here, at least his affiliation with known adversaries of Nova Roma. While Senator Labienus states he is not a member, and I thank him for his honesty in disclosing his status the question remains. How easily is it going to be for them to change their "society" to a micronation? Honestly, it looks very much like the possibility. Even Sextus Apollonius said that was the original intent, in his defense.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus

Salve Quinte Corneli,

You wrote to Titus Labienus:

> since your constitution makes no mention of members

> Your constitution is also very hypocritical...

Labienus has already stated that he is *not* a member of SVR,
therefore your use of the phrase "your constitution" is
extremely inappropriate. It is harmful to his reputation to
attempt to connect him to something he was not responsible for.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator, Nova Roma
Senior Consul-Elect, MMDCCLV (2002)


Subject:	[novaroma] Replies on SVR (sorry, long)
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:34:35 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

This list is seeing a lot of traffic again lately. I honestly wonder if some
people aren't getting finger cramp from pressing "delete" all the time.

However, on to serious matters. I will try to be brief, and will try to
address all replies to my original message.

Quintus Cornelius Caesar scripsit:
> The criticism of Formosanus is bad yet you
> criticize another Nova Roma citizen and it's okay?
> (snipped)
> You accuse Lucius Sicinius Drusus of
> making a statement that was "unthoughtful,
> disrespectful and ad hominem character was made even
> worse by the fact that it was written by a man who is
> also a macronational politician." His statement was a
> criticism of another mans flaws and actions that
> opened the path to criticism. Yet you criticize
> another man for his flaws. What makes you any better
> than Lucius Sicinius Drusus.

RESPONDEO:

You be the judge. I usually don't claim moral superiority over my fellow
debater.

What I was basically doing, was defending a man who left from Nova Roma, who
is now being mocked behind is back, without a chance to reply. Lucius
Sicinius commented on a man's character he knew little about, on a
organisation he knew even less about, and finally someone else took liberty
to put his foot into Florus' recent marriage. This discussion was never
intended to be about bad guys and good guys.

Quintus Cornelius Caesar scripsit:
> In regards to the
> criticim of Formosanus you say "he has never been an
> opponent of patricians. Supporting the plebeian cause
> does not mean being opposed to patricians." Do you
> really think this what not open up a gateway to
> criticism from patricians? That's no different than
> seperatist groups (i.e. the IRA or ETA) who oppose the
> ruling governments of their lands. They are viewed as
> opposing the ruling governement. Regardless of
> whether a system is liked but just a desire for change
> in the governemnt or ruling class it is opposition and
> viewed as such whether people like it or not.

RESPONDEO:

I completely disagree. Your reference to ETA and IRA is off base, and has
nothing to do with this discussion. Furthermore, did it ever occur to you
that opposition is a healthy thing?

Quintus Cornelius Caesar scripsit:
> You
> accuse Drusus of being vulgar yet where was the
> vulgarity? From my perspective it did nothing more
> than expose the hypocrisy.

RESPONDEO:

He did not. I would suggest you read my rebuttal of these accusations again
before you continue to swing the blade of accusation again. As for
vulgarity, calling the organisation I co-founded "Formyland", and using
other such descriptions is vulgar and insulting to me. I highly suggest you
check out our site for yourself and verify Lucius Sicinius' statements.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> I do recall a post from Bradius V. Maurus earlier this year voicing
> his displeasure that the winning canidate for Tribune of the Plebs
> failed to disclose that he was a Client of another Citizen, and Now we
> find that Draco has also failed to disclose his role in founding an
> alternative Roman group, something that could have had an effect on
> people's desire to vote for him in the recent election.
>

RESPONDEO:

Why would it. Only political vultures, scandalmongers and hysterics would
make a fuss out of this. The matter of clientelism occured _within_ Nova
Roma. What I do outside of Nova Roma is not really anyone's business.

> I Also find it intresting that Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus is
> listed as a member since May the first, and I wonder if he made his
> membershp in this alternative organization known to the Senatus of
> Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a Propraetor.
>

RESPONDEO:

See above.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus seems to have spent a considerable
> ammount of time on this alternative group rather than attending to the
> duties of the office that he was elected to fill, and now it seems
> that we have the SAME office filled by his former filis who is also a
> member of this group. I certainly hope that we won't see a repeat of
> this years performance.
>

RESPONDEO:

This is untrue.

As Scriba to Marcus Arminius Maior, I repeatedly proposed ideas and plans,
and the first one to deliver his tasks, or to be on schedule, was
Formosanus. There is an insinuation in your words I can't really appreciate.
If I may remind you, except for Maior, _all of_ last year's Aediles have
been rather inactive, and the ones of the year before were even worse, yet
they were no member of any other organisation. Funny.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> After ALL those posts that Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus
> posted blasting the leaders of Nova Roma as Ogrearchs (as we say in
> the BA) the Irony of him acheiving the same status was so funny that
> it HAD to be committed on.
>

RESPONDEO:

Which I understand to an extent. But there was quite a misrepresentation in
your wording.

> I Was using Irony in my Back Alley post, but that clause is
> VERY dangerous because of it's total lack of precession in it's
> phrases. The Communist Party has a large following in Italy. To an
> American they are extreme left wing, while I have seen many Europeans
> claim that the US Republican party is Far Right. Those terms depend
> too much on WHO is making the definition and this clause is a danger
> to disadents in any organization.
>

RESPONDEO:

So much is true. However, republican Americans, or communist Italians, will
not be thrown out of SVR. As I said before, I was thinking of organisations
such as the Ku Klux Klan, revisionists, Cellule Combattante Communiste, ETA
or ALF that clearly present a danger to society or approve of those.
Communists or conservatives are not regarded as dangerous.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
(snipped)
> I mentioned the duplicity that he had shown up to that time as reasons
> that he was unfit for an office of public trust, since that time he
> has added his role in SVR, which he did NOT make plain to the citizens
> of Nova Roma, and which I have to reason to think he made plain to the
> Senate of Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a Propraetor.
> Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus has proven that he is unfit to hold
> an office of public trust by his double dealing, and SVR will rue the
> day they entrusted this man.
>

RESPONDEO:

Double dealing? Like being a member of a golf club and a soccer club? I find
that far-fetched.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> I will also bluntly state that I am disapointed that Draco failed to
> make Nova Roma aware of his actions, and that running for an office in
> Nova Roma while organizing an alternitive organization and hiding
> these actions behind the closed European List and the Closed SVR list
> do NOT do much to inspire trust in him.
>

RESPONDEO:

Luci Sicini, I am getting tired of your scandalmongering.

The European list was never a forum for SVR. The SVR list requires moderator
approval simply because we feared we might be subject to trolls. So there.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> I have also noticed that SVR's rolls contain a citizen from Brazil
> named Limitanus, which I doubt is mere chance, so it seems we may have
> yet another canidate who has been less than honest with the voters of
> Nova Roma, though in this case one who was NOT elected so we don't
> have the problem of another Magistrate who is trying to serve two
> masters while being less than honest with one of them.
>
> If there are any more Canidates in the undecided races or newly
> elected Magistrates, or Propraetors who are involved with SVR, I call
> on them to at least have the decency to make a belated statement
> detailing their dealings with SVR.
>

RESPONDEO:

Why would that be of your business? Why all this paranoia?

For the record, I co-founded the Societas Via Romana in May 2001, and have
since been active as Censor in that place. I see no reason why my position
there would hinder my position here and vice versa. This is no question
about loyalty whatsoever, as SVR is not a micronation. I have the best
interests of Nova Roma at heart, as I have the best interests of SVR at
heart. That is completely possible, and not mutually exclusive.

And, if I may note, 3/4 of SVR's membership consists of people who are not
involved with Nova Roma.

Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Replies on SVR (sorry, long)
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:36:42 -0800

Ave,

Just a correction Sextus,

When I forwaded the post to the ML I cc:d Brady Moore he is clearly aware, of the post. I

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: S. Apollonius Draco
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:34 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Replies on SVR (sorry, long)

Salvete Quirites!

This list is seeing a lot of traffic again lately. I honestly wonder if some
people aren't getting finger cramp from pressing "delete" all the time.

However, on to serious matters. I will try to be brief, and will try to
address all replies to my original message.

Quintus Cornelius Caesar scripsit:
> The criticism of Formosanus is bad yet you
> criticize another Nova Roma citizen and it's okay?
> (snipped)
> You accuse Lucius Sicinius Drusus of
> making a statement that was "unthoughtful,
> disrespectful and ad hominem character was made even
> worse by the fact that it was written by a man who is
> also a macronational politician." His statement was a
> criticism of another mans flaws and actions that
> opened the path to criticism. Yet you criticize
> another man for his flaws. What makes you any better
> than Lucius Sicinius Drusus.

RESPONDEO:

You be the judge. I usually don't claim moral superiority over my fellow
debater.

What I was basically doing, was defending a man who left from Nova Roma, who
is now being mocked behind is back, without a chance to reply. Lucius
Sicinius commented on a man's character he knew little about, on a
organisation he knew even less about, and finally someone else took liberty
to put his foot into Florus' recent marriage. This discussion was never
intended to be about bad guys and good guys.

Quintus Cornelius Caesar scripsit:
> In regards to the
> criticim of Formosanus you say "he has never been an
> opponent of patricians. Supporting the plebeian cause
> does not mean being opposed to patricians." Do you
> really think this what not open up a gateway to
> criticism from patricians? That's no different than
> seperatist groups (i.e. the IRA or ETA) who oppose the
> ruling governments of their lands. They are viewed as
> opposing the ruling governement. Regardless of
> whether a system is liked but just a desire for change
> in the governemnt or ruling class it is opposition and
> viewed as such whether people like it or not.

RESPONDEO:

I completely disagree. Your reference to ETA and IRA is off base, and has
nothing to do with this discussion. Furthermore, did it ever occur to you
that opposition is a healthy thing?

Quintus Cornelius Caesar scripsit:
> You
> accuse Drusus of being vulgar yet where was the
> vulgarity? From my perspective it did nothing more
> than expose the hypocrisy.

RESPONDEO:

He did not. I would suggest you read my rebuttal of these accusations again
before you continue to swing the blade of accusation again. As for
vulgarity, calling the organisation I co-founded "Formyland", and using
other such descriptions is vulgar and insulting to me. I highly suggest you
check out our site for yourself and verify Lucius Sicinius' statements.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> I do recall a post from Bradius V. Maurus earlier this year voicing
> his displeasure that the winning canidate for Tribune of the Plebs
> failed to disclose that he was a Client of another Citizen, and Now we
> find that Draco has also failed to disclose his role in founding an
> alternative Roman group, something that could have had an effect on
> people's desire to vote for him in the recent election.
>

RESPONDEO:

Why would it. Only political vultures, scandalmongers and hysterics would
make a fuss out of this. The matter of clientelism occured _within_ Nova
Roma. What I do outside of Nova Roma is not really anyone's business.

> I Also find it intresting that Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus is
> listed as a member since May the first, and I wonder if he made his
> membershp in this alternative organization known to the Senatus of
> Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a Propraetor.
>

RESPONDEO:

See above.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus seems to have spent a considerable
> ammount of time on this alternative group rather than attending to the
> duties of the office that he was elected to fill, and now it seems
> that we have the SAME office filled by his former filis who is also a
> member of this group. I certainly hope that we won't see a repeat of
> this years performance.
>

RESPONDEO:

This is untrue.

As Scriba to Marcus Arminius Maior, I repeatedly proposed ideas and plans,
and the first one to deliver his tasks, or to be on schedule, was
Formosanus. There is an insinuation in your words I can't really appreciate.
If I may remind you, except for Maior, _all of_ last year's Aediles have
been rather inactive, and the ones of the year before were even worse, yet
they were no member of any other organisation. Funny.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> After ALL those posts that Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus
> posted blasting the leaders of Nova Roma as Ogrearchs (as we say in
> the BA) the Irony of him acheiving the same status was so funny that
> it HAD to be committed on.
>

RESPONDEO:

Which I understand to an extent. But there was quite a misrepresentation in
your wording.

> I Was using Irony in my Back Alley post, but that clause is
> VERY dangerous because of it's total lack of precession in it's
> phrases. The Communist Party has a large following in Italy. To an
> American they are extreme left wing, while I have seen many Europeans
> claim that the US Republican party is Far Right. Those terms depend
> too much on WHO is making the definition and this clause is a danger
> to disadents in any organization.
>

RESPONDEO:

So much is true. However, republican Americans, or communist Italians, will
not be thrown out of SVR. As I said before, I was thinking of organisations
such as the Ku Klux Klan, revisionists, Cellule Combattante Communiste, ETA
or ALF that clearly present a danger to society or approve of those.
Communists or conservatives are not regarded as dangerous.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
(snipped)
> I mentioned the duplicity that he had shown up to that time as reasons
> that he was unfit for an office of public trust, since that time he
> has added his role in SVR, which he did NOT make plain to the citizens
> of Nova Roma, and which I have to reason to think he made plain to the
> Senate of Nova Roma when he was attempting to become a Propraetor.
> Bradius V. Maurus Nee Formosanus has proven that he is unfit to hold
> an office of public trust by his double dealing, and SVR will rue the
> day they entrusted this man.
>

RESPONDEO:

Double dealing? Like being a member of a golf club and a soccer club? I find
that far-fetched.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> I will also bluntly state that I am disapointed that Draco failed to
> make Nova Roma aware of his actions, and that running for an office in
> Nova Roma while organizing an alternitive organization and hiding
> these actions behind the closed European List and the Closed SVR list
> do NOT do much to inspire trust in him.
>

RESPONDEO:

Luci Sicini, I am getting tired of your scandalmongering.

The European list was never a forum for SVR. The SVR list requires moderator
approval simply because we feared we might be subject to trolls. So there.

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> I have also noticed that SVR's rolls contain a citizen from Brazil
> named Limitanus, which I doubt is mere chance, so it seems we may have
> yet another canidate who has been less than honest with the voters of
> Nova Roma, though in this case one who was NOT elected so we don't
> have the problem of another Magistrate who is trying to serve two
> masters while being less than honest with one of them.
>
> If there are any more Canidates in the undecided races or newly
> elected Magistrates, or Propraetors who are involved with SVR, I call
> on them to at least have the decency to make a belated statement
> detailing their dealings with SVR.
>

RESPONDEO:

Why would that be of your business? Why all this paranoia?

For the record, I co-founded the Societas Via Romana in May 2001, and have
since been active as Censor in that place. I see no reason why my position
there would hinder my position here and vice versa. This is no question
about loyalty whatsoever, as SVR is not a micronation. I have the best
interests of Nova Roma at heart, as I have the best interests of SVR at
heart. That is completely possible, and not mutually exclusive.

And, if I may note, 3/4 of SVR's membership consists of people who are not
involved with Nova Roma.

Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:40:16 +0100

Salve, O Censor,

>
> I agree with you, Senator. However, this is going to be an issue here, at
least his affiliation with known adversaries of Nova Roma. While Senator
Labienus states he is not a member, and I thank him for his honesty in
disclosing his status the question remains. How easily is it going to be
for them to change their "society" to a micronation? Honestly, it looks
very much like the possibility. Even Sextus Apollonius said that was the
original intent, in his defense.
>

Could you quote me on that, please? I don't think I said that.

Vale bene,
Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:43:02 -0800

Ave,

I believe I saw it in your statement, I will look it up when I am at my residence.

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: S. Apollonius Draco
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus

Salve, O Censor,

>
> I agree with you, Senator. However, this is going to be an issue here, at
least his affiliation with known adversaries of Nova Roma. While Senator
Labienus states he is not a member, and I thank him for his honesty in
disclosing his status the question remains. How easily is it going to be
for them to change their "society" to a micronation? Honestly, it looks
very much like the possibility. Even Sextus Apollonius said that was the
original intent, in his defense.
>

Could you quote me on that, please? I don't think I said that.

Vale bene,
Draco


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Replies on SVR (sorry, long)
From:	"lsicinius" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:54:24 -0000

I Would also like to add that "bvm3" is still a member of the Back
Alley where the original post was made. It was NOT made in a Forum
that he isn't a member of.

Drusus

--- In novaroma@--------, "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Just a correction Sextus,
>
> When I forwaded the post to the ML I cc:d Brady Moore he is
clearly aware, of the post. I
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Replies on SVR (sorry, long)
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:59:28 +0100

Salvete!

> I Would also like to add that "bvm3" is still a member of the Back
> Alley where the original post was made. It was NOT made in a Forum
> that he isn't a member of.
>

> > When I forwaded the post to the ML I cc:d Brady Moore he is
> clearly aware, of the post. I
> >

Okay. It still doesn't invalidate the rest I said.

Valete!
Draco

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Subject:	[novaroma] E-zine: sorry
From:	"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:12:37 +0100

Salvete omnes cives,

I'm sorry to announce you, that I'm not gonna start the e-zine project
yet, because didn't get enough feedback. I still believe that something
like that is expected, especially from those not reading the list on a
regular basis. But I need much more contributors than those who
responded to my mail.

I'm still listening and collecting all suggestions and anyone who would
like to contriubte is free to mail me privately. Or maybe someone else
is going to start this project? That would be fine too. Then I would be
the first one to offer my services.

Valete bene,
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Cives
From:	"Mia Soderquist" <ursulanumeria@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:08:44 -0500

Welcome, Clodia Maria Omega!
I, for one, did not read your original post regarding your difficulties
becoming a citizen as hostile. It seemed to me that you were looking for
answers for a legitimate complaint about the difficulties that you
encountered, and your second posting here seems to indicate that there was a
communication problem.

I've had good experiences with the censores, who promptly and efficiently
handled multiple e-mail address changes for me before that function was
added to the web site. I hope that your future encounters with Nova Roman
officials are more pleasant than this first exchange on this list.

It helps to have a thick skin and a sense of humor when reading the main
list sometimes, especially when emotions are running high. As you may
already know, there are lots of other places to interact with Nova Romans.
If you are interested in the Religio, there's a list for that, and there's a
Latinitas list if you are interested in Latin. There are actually several
more as well, but those are two that came to mind immediately.

Happy Saturnalia, and do enjoy your happy first day of citizenship!

Ursula Numeria Fortunata

>From: "Living History Australia" <Admin@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: [novaroma] New Cives
>Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:58:08 +1000

>
> So, the usual response to a new member is to dismiss what they have said
>and then hold them up to ridicule? I've no wish to start fights on my first
>day as a citizen of Nova Roma, so I'll keep my opinions of your tone to
>myself. It is, however, becoming clearer to me what the source of this
>problem might be.
>
> I was very happy and very proud to see my name finally on the list of
>cives, and I refuse to let my happiness be tainted by the rudeness of
>another.
>
> I wish everyone a happy Saturnalia.
>
> Clodia Maria Omega
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Congratulations!!!!!!!-
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:23:11 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Marce Minuci Audens.

--- jmath669642reng@-------- wrote:
> My sincerest congratulations to Cnaeus Salix Astur, Marcus Arminus
> Maior, Sextus Appolonius Draco, and Tiberius Appolonius Cicatrix.
>
> I wish you all the best in your new positions as Magistrates and
> servants of the people of Nova Roma. I expect great things from you
> as
> you have all been active on the Main List and in activities off the
> Main
> List as well. You have conducted yourselves in such a way as the
> Citizens of Nova Roma have recognized your worth, and you have won an
> election conducted in accordance with our constitution.
>
> All this is indicative of the ability that you possess and the ideas
> that you generate. Now you have the opportunity to turn those ideas
> into significant advances for Nova Roma, and I have every belief that
> you will do just that and will do it well.
>
> Well Done, Gentlemen!!!!
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens

Thank you very much, sir! Coming from you, such high expectations are
certainly a compliment.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disclosure - T Labienus Fortunatus
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:51:10 +0100

>Salve Quinte Corneli,
>
>You wrote to Titus Labienus:
>
>> since your constitution makes no mention of members
>
>> Your constitution is also very hypocritical...
>
>Labienus has already stated that he is *not* a member of SVR,
>therefore your use of the phrase "your constitution" is
>extremely inappropriate. It is harmful to his reputation to
>attempt to connect him to something he was not responsible for.
>
>Vale, Octavius.
>
>--
>Marcus Octavius Germanicus
>Curator Araneum et Senator, Nova Roma
>Senior Consul-Elect, MMDCCLV (2002)

Salvete Quirites!

This is a very serious matter. I am sure that the weight of our Senior
Consul-Elect is enough, but my conscience forces me to state the following.

The fact that Illustrus Titus Labienus Fortunatus sometimes is active at
one or two lists organised by Societas Via Romana is absolutely irrelevant
to his activities here in Nova Roma. I have the utmost trust for him and I
recommend all cives to treat him fairly as I am sure that he will continue
to be an asset to our beloved Res Publica. Remember his responsible work as
a Tribunus Plebis, where all of us who were there had nothing but
admiration for his work in the beginning of this year. I have had the
pleasure to trust him with the first Praeceptorship in Academia Thules, a
position in which I expext him to excel.

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
soon to be Curule Aedile of Nova Roma
still Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Replies on SVR (sorry, long)
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:15:20 -0500

Salve,

>>What I was basically doing, was defending a man who left from Nova Roma,
who is now being mocked behind is back, without a chance to reply.>>

Small correction here. None of those who resigned recently, Formosanus
included, have unsubscribed from the List. They are present and capable of
rebuttal if they so choose.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis
Lictor


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Replies on SVR (sorry, long)
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:27:01 -0800

Ave,

My comment below:

Lucius Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> I do recall a post from Bradius V. Maurus earlier this year voicing
> his displeasure that the winning canidate for Tribune of the Plebs
> failed to disclose that he was a Client of another Citizen, and Now we
> find that Draco has also failed to disclose his role in founding an
> alternative Roman group, something that could have had an effect on
> people's desire to vote for him in the recent election.
>

RESPONDEO:

Why would it. Only political vultures, scandalmongers and hysterics would
make a fuss out of this. The matter of clientelism occured _within_ Nova
Roma. What I do outside of Nova Roma is not really anyone's business.

Sulla: Are you actually telling everyone on the Nova Roma main list that it is not our concern as citizens of Nova Roma that you have chosen to become involved in another organization that will drain your time and resources instead of devoting your time to Nova Roma and to the People of Nova Roma who elected you? Does conflict of interest mean NOTHING to you? I say to you, Sextus Apollonius that if that is the case step down from your newly elected position and give it to someone else who will devote the time and energy necessary to the Aedileship. You, Sextus Apollonius, cannot have your cake and eat it too. You should choose what organization you want to serve and devote your time to it. If it is not Nova Roma, be man enough to admit it and move on!

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] My Thanks and Statements
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:44:26 -0500

Salvete cives et amici,

Of all the days my internet could be down, it just had to be yesterday... =)
I wish I could of made these statements earlier.

Citizens of Nova Roma I want to thank all who voted for me in this years
elections. In the new year you will receive the benefits of your decision in
the form of frequent entertainment, and cultural events hosted by me and my
fellow Aediles. I intend to make this year the most entertaining year in our
history. But our job is not limited to games. I shall strive to expand the
boarders of this office in this new year to include NovaRoma.org and also
work with the other honourable magistrates on different legal issues that
the Curules Aediles of old held.

I also want to congratulate my friend and colleague Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus. I look forward with working with Caeso as Curule Aedile and I
am honoured to have the chance to work with such a dedicated citizen. It
will be a great year indeed!

Valete,

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Aedile Curule Elect
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--

>cassius622@-------- at cassius622@-------- wrote:
>
> Curules Aediles
> - Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, elected with 34 tribus
> - Amulius Claudius Petrus, elected with 32 tribus