Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Resignation
From:	"morosbe2001" <morosbe2001@-------->
Date:	Sat, 22 Dec 2001 23:54:45 -0000

Salvete omni
I have come back to Nova Roma. I know many people don't like that i
have returned but here i'm.
I have a lot of respect for the research and work that has been done
in the area of the Religio Romana and the Sodalitas Militarium, which
deserves some praise. However, there is very little interest here in
philosophy, literature, poetry or the arts in general. I have
ceaselessly tried to promote those facets of Roman civilisation ever
since I assumed the office of leader of the Sodalitas Musarum, but to
no avail.
He's correct. The NR Humanitas is getting nowhere in the distand
future even though Caius has tried to revive it but to no avail. It
has something to do with the fact that politics domminitas Nova Roma.
Mayby thats why so many people on this list are lurkers. They don't
come out because they don't know a thing what is being said here. And
like in the Religio Romano, there are also a small group of people
who are active while the rest is inactive like four members of my
gens.
> The disproportional role politics play in Nova Roma also show that
most active people are more concerned with the organisation itself
than with actually making it reach its goal. I will not elaborate on
the whys, hows and whos of that. Most of the time, politics here are
heavy factionalised, driven by emotions or naked opportunism rather
than ideals, and show a strong leaning to the conservative side of
the political spectrum. Laws have been created that bear a silent
testimony of this regime. Did i already said this in earlier posts.
I think its clear to me that my former fratre is talking about one of
the people who i dislikes and the feeling is probaly mutual: Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix. To me and to others he has shown this face but
to others he has shown another face. I said it once in an earlier
post before i left, the characters, personalities of people is
dualistic. We have a janusface. If you remmember what i meant by this.
Valete optimi pax deorum
Tiberius Apollonius Callias


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Resignation
From:	"Caius Cornelius Puteanus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 02:58:52 +0100

Salve Tiberie Sokare!

As I already told you in private conversation, but will not hesitate telling
the entire list, there are a few things in which we disagree. But lets start
with some positive note: welcome back!

Other people wondered why there is so little attention paid to culture,
history, philosophy and the like as well. They didn't wait for the
initiative of others, they decided to do something about it. I will name a
few in which I have been invited to join: the Sodalitas Egressus is trying
to accomplish a mission of promoting Nova Roma and Romanitas all over the
world. One of the strongest people behind this Sodalitas is the Illustrous
Senator Marcus Minucius Audens, who asked me to join forces. This is the way
the website of Germania Inferior was created. It encomprises the first
results from my research about Romanitas in the Low Countries. There are a
few other people working on different regions, but there's still enough room
for many others as well.

Secondly, there is the Academia Thules ad studiorum Roma antiqua et Nova.
The Academia Team has worked hard on the website and the first courses are
about to start. What, when and how is not yet decided, but we will all be
informed very soon. I have little accomplishment in the Academia, since I
became a Scribe only recently, but I can tell you that it consists of many
hardworking, honorable and very kind people. Being relatively new around
here, I met some good friends there and the projects we set up as college
are going to be a success, thanks to the determination of the team behind
it. I am not naming any of them, since I value each and every one of them
very high and since everybody's contribution is necessary to be successful.

OK, NRHumanitas, a list I created, wasn't a great success. No problem to me:
I found a different way to help spreading the cultural, historical,
philosophical accomplishments of our forebears. When will you join us?

Just like you attacked Pater Sulla many times in private conversation, I
will answer the same thing again. I am glad that Sulla is with us, since he
is an honest, hard working individual with a lot of experience as Senator
and co-founder of Nova Roma. I don't have to make the defence of Sulla here,
since that would only overjoy you because 'I didn't shut up quietly as if
nothing happened'.

I have always defended your accomplishments in the field of Religio Romana
and Hellenic Paganism. Why don't you share some of that with us? You write
promising texts, with good overviews in it, where are they? Please stop
insulting people and add some incentive here!

I say this to you, not as a 'hostile Cornelius with patrician air and an
arrogant mouth', I say this to you as a fellow provincial and someone who
discussed this with you many times already.

Of course the invitation for joining the Academia and the Sodalitas Egressus
is meant for everybody!!!

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Cornelius Puteanus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/puteanus/

----- Original Message -----
From: "morosbe2001" <morosbe2001@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 12:54 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Resignation

> Salvete omni
> I have come back to Nova Roma. I know many people don't like that i
> have returned but here i'm.
> I have a lot of respect for the research and work that has been done
> in the area of the Religio Romana and the Sodalitas Militarium, which
> deserves some praise. However, there is very little interest here in
> philosophy, literature, poetry or the arts in general. I have
> ceaselessly tried to promote those facets of Roman civilisation ever
> since I assumed the office of leader of the Sodalitas Musarum, but to
> no avail.
> He's correct. The NR Humanitas is getting nowhere in the distand
> future even though Caius has tried to revive it but to no avail. It
> has something to do with the fact that politics domminitas Nova Roma.
> Mayby thats why so many people on this list are lurkers. They don't
> come out because they don't know a thing what is being said here. And
> like in the Religio Romano, there are also a small group of people
> who are active while the rest is inactive like four members of my
> gens.
> > The disproportional role politics play in Nova Roma also show that
> most active people are more concerned with the organisation itself
> than with actually making it reach its goal. I will not elaborate on
> the whys, hows and whos of that. Most of the time, politics here are
> heavy factionalised, driven by emotions or naked opportunism rather
> than ideals, and show a strong leaning to the conservative side of
> the political spectrum. Laws have been created that bear a silent
> testimony of this regime. Did i already said this in earlier posts.
> I think its clear to me that my former fratre is talking about one of
> the people who i dislikes and the feeling is probaly mutual: Lucius
> Cornelius Sulla Felix. To me and to others he has shown this face but
> to others he has shown another face. I said it once in an earlier
> post before i left, the characters, personalities of people is
> dualistic. We have a janusface. If you remmember what i meant by this.
> Valete optimi pax deorum
> Tiberius Apollonius Callias
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Resignation
From:	"otto_von_sitter" <otto_von_sitter@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 02:37:30 -0000

I'm sorry that some of the politics have been getting to you. I have
to agree with you though, NR is much too political for a nation that
technically does not exist yet because there is no actual place called
Nova Roma. My solution to the overzealous poloticians is a bid
different, though. Rather than try to fight with them I just ignore
them. I hope that my TRUST in the poloticians is not misplaced and
that they will work things out for the better in the end. I also hope
that New Rome doesn't end up like old Rome. I would hate to see such a
nobel cause fail.

BTW, what is the deal with people and my Pater? I've seen a few people
talk trash about him and I am frankly tired of it. Reguardless of any
wrong he may have done in the past, he has been like a big brother to
me from the time I first applied for citizenship. Things weren't
working right during the registration process and Sulla was with me
every step of the way. When I couldn't get a hold of the pater of
another gens I was trying to join, he offered to let me join his.
Being of Native American decent, I take great honor in being offered to
be adopted by another family. In almost every Native American tribe it
is a great honor to be adopted into another family. I don't know how
the Romans of old would have felt about being adopted into another
family, but no one should think little of it. This is why I give Sulla
my full support. For all those who have some qualm with my Pater, I
ask that you forgive, even if you cannot forget. Actually, I ask that
that be extended to everyone that has a problem with anyone. I am
confident that you all have good hearts and can find it within those
good hearts of yours to forgive one another for sins that have been
committed in the past. I joined Nova Roma because I respected and
believed in the cause. We are few, if we are not as one "team", I fear
that NR's goals may never be reached. Wasn't it Claudius that said
being separated would destroy the Empire? I think he may have been
speaking of separation between the Romans and the Greeks, but I believe
the same meaning can apply hear. I appologize to anyone that takes
offence to this post, but I thought it my duty as a citizen to get my
opinion out there.

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
>
>
> Quite unexpectedly perhaps, I offer you my resignation, in what will probably be my last e-mail to the main list of NR. In relinquishing my citizenship of Nova Roma, I also resign from any and all offices I hold, be they provincial, central or of some other importance to this micronation. I also waive my nine days period of reconsideration, and would like my resignation to become effective immediately.
>
> In a similar fashion to my earlier - and consequently aborted - attempt at resigning at the end of May this year, I will offer you my reasons, although a little more elaborate, perhaps. Note also that below paragraph contains general remarks, and do not refer to _everyone_ as such, or to someone _specifical_.
>
>
>
> Nova Roma was inspired by noble and great ideals. I have a lot of respect for the research and work that has been done in the area of the Religio Romana and the Sodalitas Militarium, which deserves some praise. However, there is very little interest here in philosophy, literature, poetry or the arts in general. I have ceaselessly tried to promote those facets of Roman civilisation ever since I assumed the office of leader of the Sodalitas Musarum, but to no avail. In a distant future, this situation may improve, but I cannot wait forever, toiling away in darkness. Another disappointing facet of Nova Roma is its latinity. While there are some excellent latinists, and a group of people is actively trying to learn the language, for most of the time Latin here is gruesome, and corrections are regarded as pedantic.
>
> The disproportional role politics play in Nova Roma also show that most active people are more concerned with the organisation itself than with actually making it reach its goal. I will not elaborate on the whys, hows and whos of that. Most of the time, politics here are heavy factionalised, driven by emotions or naked opportunism rather than ideals, and show a strong leaning to the conservative side of the political spectrum. Laws have been created that bear a silent testimony of this regime. Ever since I became politically active, I have tried to revert this tendency, and have been met with serious opposition, sometimes honest and serious, sometimes mean and vicious. I am not entirely innocent myself, of course. However, looking back at this one and a half year, and the countless emails I have written, the progress I have been making is too slow for what it is worth.
>
> And now, there is the case of my involvement in Societas Via Romana. Over there, as well as here, I am under fire by a small yet fervent minority, that views me as a threat or a hostile element. I realise that if I stay here, I will remain under fire for my membership in SVR forever, which may have - and is having - bad consequences for that organisation. My citizenship in Nova Roma is becoming unhealthy for me: headaches, sleeplessness and other nasty things plague me from time to time. I don't want to appear like a martyr for any cause whatsoever, but the negative sides of my involvement in NR are simply becoming too overwhelming.
>
> In this fourth paragraph, an apology is in its place. I apologise to the people that voted for me, and that I in some way let down, but I did not want to be an oath breaker. I apologise for abruptly interrupting, when the Mars novel had almost come to an end, and when I was due to attend a meeting in Germania Inferior. I also apologise to those who are still fightning to revert some injust legislation and steer Nova Roma back on course of its original goals; you might feel that I am leaving you behind. In a sense, I am, but in another way, you are well aware that there is another Roman community out there, although different in purpose, that you would probably feel more at ease in. But in short, I feel that right now, before I would be required to swear my oath of office as Aedilis Plebis, is the most appropriate time to resign, and forever disappear out of Nova Roma.
>
>
>
> As I did last time, I would like to say a few words of thanks to some people. Without those people, I would have been gone here much earlier. Inspiring examples of Romanitas for me were people such as Titus Labienus, Marcus Octavius, Alexander Probus, Pompeia Cornelia, Caeso Fabius, Domna Claudia, Gnaeus Salix and Marcus Minucius. Other praiseworthy people, like Caius Flavius, Marcus Arminius, Iasonus Serenus, Lucius Pompeius, Caius Puteus and Ianus Querius spring to mind. And there are probably a lot that I have failed to mention. To those, whom I consider my friends, I wish them good luck in their further life in this micronation, and regardless of affiliation, will continue to consider them friends.
>
> In contrast to my speech last time, I would also like to make to some time to address a few words to my opponents. To Quintus Fabius, all I can say is that he was a worthy poliitcal opponent, and I enjoyed talking to him on several occasions. Same goes for Lucius Sicinius, in spite of all our differences. You might feel some justified relief that I have departed from NR. A special word, perhaps, would go to Lucius Cornelius. While you have done some outstanding work as Censor, and are no doubt a caring paterfamilias, this is overshadowed by your arrogance, pride and bureaucratism. If about all people who have todate resigned named your name in their public statement as a reason of resigning, and you continue to deny that there is anything wrong, you are delusionary. There are also countless smaller fish, who have an immaturity of character that is unparallelled even by the majority of my peers, and I don't consider it worth mentioning their names. They will reveal themselves by ridiculing me when I am gone, by twisting my words and abusing my name, like vultures tear at the corpse of an animal they did not kill themselves.
>
>
>
> On a more positive note, I leave you with the hope that Nova Roma shall become what it was intended to, and I will peacefully retreat to Societas Via Romana. To my friends, I hope that we will be able to maintain cordial ties, and to my former opponents, I hope all of you will improve for the better and have a happy life.
>
>
>
> Valete bene,
> Sextus Apollonius Draco
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 13:55:47 +1100 (EST)

Salve mi Draco,

I will be one of the voices wishing you well on your
new path. I am saddened that Nova Roma will loose a
very bright and talented young man with as much vigour
and devotion as you have, but there is a destiny that
we all must follow and I hope that you have great
success in finding yours.

Vale bene mi amico,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

--- "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
Salvete Quirites, 
 
 
 
Quite unexpectedly perhaps, I offer you my
resignation, in what will probably be my last e-mail
to the main list of NR. In relinquishing my
citizenship of Nova Roma, I also resign from any and
all offices I hold, be they provincial, central or of
some other importance to this micronation. I also
waive my nine days period of reconsideration, and
would like my resignation to become effective
immediately. 
 
In a similar fashion to my earlier - and consequently
aborted - attempt at resigning at the end of May this
year, I will offer you my reasons, although a little
more elaborate, perhaps. Note also that below
paragraph contains general remarks, and do not refer
to _everyone_ as such, or to someone _specifical_. 
 
 
 
Nova Roma was inspired by noble and great ideals. I
have a lot of respect for the research and work that
has been done in the area of the Religio Romana and
the Sodalitas Militarium, which deserves some praise.
However, there is very little interest here in
philosophy, literature, poetry or the arts in general.
I have ceaselessly tried to promote those facets of
Roman civilisation ever since I assumed the office of
leader of the Sodalitas Musarum, but to no avail. In a
distant future, this situation may improve, but I
cannot wait forever, toiling away in darkness. Another
disappointing facet of Nova Roma is its latinity.
While there are some excellent latinists, and a group
of people is actively trying to learn the language,
for most of the time Latin here is gruesome, and
corrections are regarded as pedantic. 
 
The disproportional role politics play in Nova Roma
also show that most active people are more concerned
with the organisation itself than with actually making
it reach its goal. I will not elaborate on the whys,
hows and whos of that. Most of the time, politics here
are heavy factionalised, driven by emotions or naked
opportunism rather than ideals, and show a strong
leaning to the conservative side of the political
spectrum. Laws have been created that bear a silent
testimony of this regime. Ever since I became
politically active, I have tried to revert this
tendency, and have been met with serious opposition,
sometimes honest and serious, sometimes mean and
vicious. I am not entirely innocent myself, of course.
However, looking back at this one and a half year, and
the countless emails I have written, the progress I
have been making is too slow for what it is worth. 
 
And now, there is the case of my involvement in
Societas Via Romana. Over there, as well as here, I am
under fire by a small yet fervent minority, that views
me as a threat or a hostile element. I realise that if
I stay here, I will remain under fire for my
membership in SVR forever, which may have - and is
having - bad consequences for that organisation. My
citizenship in Nova Roma is becoming unhealthy for me:
headaches, sleeplessness and other nasty things plague
me from time to time. I don't want to appear like a
martyr for any cause whatsoever, but the negative
sides of my involvement in NR are simply becoming too
overwhelming. 
 
In this fourth paragraph, an apology is in its place.
I apologise to the people that voted for me, and that
I in some way let down, but I did not want to be an
oath breaker. I apologise for abruptly interrupting,
when the Mars novel had almost come to an end, and
when I was due to attend a meeting in Germania
Inferior. I also apologise to those who are still
fightning to revert some injust legislation and steer
Nova Roma back on course of its original goals; you
might feel that I am leaving you behind. In a sense, I
am, but in another way, you are well aware that there
is another Roman community out there, although
different in purpose, that you would probably feel
more at ease in. But in short, I feel that right now,
before I would be required to swear my oath of office
as Aedilis Plebis, is the most appropriate time to
resign, and forever disappear out of Nova Roma. 
 
 
 
As I did last time, I would like to say a few words of
thanks to some people. Without those people, I would
have been gone here much earlier. Inspiring examples
of Romanitas for me were people such as Titus
Labienus, Marcus Octavius, Alexander Probus, Pompeia
Cornelia, Caeso Fabius, Domna Claudia, Gnaeus Salix
and Marcus Minucius. Other praiseworthy people, like
Caius Flavius, Marcus Arminius, Iasonus Serenus,
Lucius Pompeius, Caius Puteus and Ianus Querius spring
to mind. And there are probably a lot that I have
failed to mention. To those, whom I consider my
friends, I wish them good luck in their further life
in this micronation, and regardless of affiliation,
will continue to consider them friends. 
 
In contrast to my speech last time, I would also like
to make to some time to address a few words to my
opponents. To Quintus Fabius, all I can say is that he
was a worthy poliitcal opponent, and I enjoyed talking
to him on several occasions. Same goes for Lucius
Sicinius, in spite of all our differences. You might
feel some justified relief that I have departed from
NR. A special word, perhaps, would go to Lucius
Cornelius. While you have done some outstanding work
as Censor, and are no doubt a caring paterfamilias,
this is overshadowed by your arrogance, pride and
bureaucratism. If about all people who have todate
resigned named your name in their public statement as
a reason of resigning, and you continue to deny that
there is anything wrong, you are delusionary. There
are also countless smaller fish, who have an
immaturity of character that is unparallelled even by
the majority of my peers, and I don't consider it
worth mentioning their names. They will reveal
themselves by ridiculing me when I am gone, by
twisting my words and abusing my name, like vultures
tear at the corpse of an animal they did not kill
themselves. 
 
 
 
On a more positive note, I leave you with the hope
that Nova Roma shall become what it was intended to,
and I will peacefully retreat to Societas Via Romana.
To my friends, I hope that we will be able to maintain
cordial ties, and to my former opponents, I hope all
of you will improve for the better and have a happy
life. 
 
 
 
Valete bene, 
Sextus Apollonius Draco 
 
 
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed] 
 
</tt>

 



<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Resignation
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Sat, 22 Dec 2001 23:17:02 -0500

Salve,

A small correction is in order.

>>I am glad that Sulla is with us, since he is an honest, hard working
individual with a lot of experience as Senator and co-founder of Nova
Roma.>>

Sulla has many fine qualities and has, indeed, accomplished much within Nova
Roma. He is not, however, one of the co-founders. Marcus Cassius Julianus
and Flavius Vedius Germanicus founded Nova Roma.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis
Lictor


Subject:	[novaroma] Focus of this List
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Sat, 22 Dec 2001 23:29:53 -0500

Salve,

Every so often List members raise the issue of too much of this or that
topic here on the Main List. It is quite true that the List tends to focus
more on some aspects of our nation than others and there is hardly a
balanced representation of our interests here. As we approach the new year,
I thought it might be wise to address this very valid issue.

The best way to see posts here on the Main List that mirror your interests
is to *post* about them. :) True, not every thread may develop into a
lengthy conversation, but that is no reason not to try. I know for a fact
that most Nova Romans, magistrates and political experts included, have a
vast array of interests here beyond that of politics and laws. There is an
immense amount of knowledge and talent here and it is *totally* appropriate
and more than welcome to have conversations about poetry, philosophy, the
religio, history, costuming, family life, the list is quite endless.

I will be candid. I would dearly love to see far more discussion and
exchange on these topics. I acknowledge that our government and its
functions are important, but there is a huge world of Roman interest beyond
just that. A number of individuals suggest joining interest-specific lists
or Sodalitas in order to post about, to use one example, the arts. I am all
in favor of having separate discussion lists and of course the various
Sodalitas are a credit to our Nation and the hard-working cives who join and
maintain them.

What concerns me, however, is the feeling that one *must* go elsewhere to
discuss these things. As Curatrix Sermonis I can tell you that Roman topics
of all sorts are welcome here and creating threads on various topics would
breathe a lovely new life into this List. For those of you who feel
defeated by the lengthy focus on politics, I would challenge <in a friendly
way LOL> you to take back this List and make it what *you* want to see it
be. If the political posts don't suit you, start a conversation that does.
I, for one, would love to see just that take place. Politics has its
rightful part to play, but it should not drown out all other interests or
drive cives off to other areas in order to feel free to discussion recipes
or the arts.

In closing, I would offer a friendly challenge to *all* List members.
Within the next month, make a conscious effort to start a thread dealing
with something of particular interest to *you*. Make a conscious effort to
reply to other posts which also strike your interest. Take the time to post
your stories, book reviews, recipes, clothing information or religio rituals
here for us all to learn from and discuss. Only in this way, by taking a
personal role in making this List be what you wish it to be, will change
take place.

I look forward to some interesting and diverse discussions in the coming
weeks!

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis
Lictor


Subject:	[novaroma] Acca Larentia
From:	"arloro1" <antoniuscorvusseptimius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:05:22 -0000

Salvete Publicus Popoli Romani,

On this day of Acca Larentia, I would like to share her
story(ies).
"Also known as Larentina, this obscure Roman goddess was
worshipped during the Larentalia festival on December 23rd. The
origins of this goddess are unclear (archaeologically speaking), but
she appears to have been connected with the founding of Roma.In one
legend, the keeper of the temple of Hercules, invited Hurcules to a
game of dice, the prize being a feast and a beautiful girl called Acca
Larentia. Hercules won, but he later gave her up and she married
Tarutius, a wealthy Etruscan. Tarutius died shortly afterward, leaving
Acca Larentia with large estates near Roma that she bequeathed to the
Roman people at her death.-- There is another legend names Acca
Larentia as the wife of Faustulus, the herdsman who found Romulus and
Remus with the Wolf. The 12 Arval priests were said to have been
founded in memory of her 12 children (not including Romulus and Remus
who she adopted) who were the first Arval priests."-- Grimal 1986. the
dictionary of classical mythology.Hammond and Scullard, the Oxford
classical dictionary.---
In respect to her memory, I will burning laurels for her.
As well as a healthy libation for her, and the end of a most beautiful
Saturnalia.I trust that everyone has had a wonderful celebration.As
for myself, it was one of the most remarkable (to date).And I wish
that feeling for all of you.

Dii te semper ament, A. Corvus Septimius


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On Sextus Apollonius Resignation
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 04:55:03 EST

To all our citizens, new and old, take heed in what Sextus Apollonus speaks:

SAD: Nova Roma was inspired by noble and great ideals. I have a lot of
respect for the research and work that has been done in the area of the
Religio Romana and the Sodalitas Militarium, which deserves some praise.
However, there is very little interest here in philosophy, literature, poetry
or the arts in general.

QFM. I do not believe that is 100% true. However, election time
historically and currently
occupies Roman life, around this time. Everything takes a back door
temporally to it. However come Kal IAN the sacrifice to Iuppiter will be
carried out by the new consuls, and life will return to normal. Normal is
what you make of it, citizens of Rome. There will be opportunities to
discuss and practice the very thing Apollonius laments is missing from NR.
But let us put things in prospective. We have declared ourselves a
micronation. Because of this certain things must be assured, before we build
culture. Granted we have Roman culture to study and review, the poems of
Ovius, the intricacies of the arch, the composition of cement, how the metal
shank of the pilum was attached to the wooden shaft, Roman sewer
construction, water pressure in aqueducts, the recipe for garum, the list
goes on.
But, because we are a micronation, we must have security, rules to protect
all, and income to further our projects. This seems to preoccupy our
leadership right now. Consider Romans, and realize, our new republic will be
four years old next march. The list above are things that sometimes take
decades to resolve. I do not believe we neglect studying culture, just that
it is low on the list of priorities facing NR right now.

SAD: I have ceaselessly tried to promote those facets of Roman civilization
ever since I assumed the office of leader of the Sodalitas Musarum, but to no
avail. In a distant future, this situation may improve, but I cannot wait
forever, toiling away in darkness.

QFM: Alas fair youth, Rome was not built in a day. When I joined NR in Sex.
the first year of its existence, I made a vow to Vesta, that I was in for the
long haul, I.E., whenever it seemed easier to bail then work through
problems, or give up and leave, I would grit my teeth and stay. In the year
of my consulship Iuppiter tested me. First my co-owner of my production
company had a heart attack, so it looked liked I'd have to leave. No, I got
through that. Next, my co-consul had to go into the hospital, so I was
forced to give up a project in order to oversee NR. Then my sister was in an
auto accident which necessitated me moving back to San Diego to look after
her, but my colleague labored mightily, and we continued on. Finally my
father died at age 86, from stress received from my sister's accident. I had
to oversee the division of his estate.
So why am I, as the Romans would say, tooting my own horn? I bore you to
illustrate the adage "do as I say and do." Roman citizenship is a privilege
not a right. We all must be dedicated and determined to make this work. If
we run away when the going gets hard we will accomplish nothing. If we check
out because it is easier to do so, then fight through it, we gain nothing.
We are all here because we believe in this thing of ours. We will have to be
strong because we must. But consider Romans, if we do accomplish our goals
how our descendants will praise us. And nothing is more important to a Roman
than continuity.

SAD Another disappointing facet of Nova Roma is its latinity. While there are
some excellent Latinists, and a group of people is actively trying to learn
the language, for most of the time Latin here is gruesome, and corrections
are regarded as pedantic.

QFM: I agree with Apollonius. And I'm just as guilty of mangling the
language. I usually translate written Latin into English not vice versa. So
I often wing it. However I see this is changing. More classically educated
people are joining NR, and consequently our Latin speaking ability will
increase. In ten years, the gods willing, NR may have a list devoted to
citizens speaking entirely in classical Latin.

SAD: The disproportional role politics play in Nova Roma also show that most
active people are more concerned with the organization itself than with
actually making it reach its goal. I will not elaborate on the whys, hows and
whos of that. Most of the time, politics here are heavy factionalised, driven
by emotions or naked opportunism rather than ideals, and show a strong
leaning to the conservative side of the political spectrum. Laws have been
created that bear a silent testimony of this regime. Ever since I became
politically active, I have tried to revert this tendency, and have been met
with serious opposition, sometimes honest and serious, sometimes mean and
vicious. I am not entirely innocent myself, of course. However, looking back
at this one and a half year, and the countless emails I have written, the
progress I have been making is too slow for what it is worth.

QFM: Again he might be correct in several of his points, but again all of the
above takes time. As for his conservative comment, Romans were just that. I
see no reason to change that ideal, for this new world. If we are going to
recreate New Rome, we must use Old Rome's example. Otherwise why do this?

SAD: In contrast to my speech last time, I would also like to make to some
time to address a few words to my opponents. To Quintus Fabius, all I can say
is that he was a worthy political opponent, and I enjoyed talking to him on
several occasions.

QFM: The same can be said of Sextus Apollonius. I had high hopes he would be
the first young citizen to work his way thru the cursus honorum.

SAD: A special word, perhaps, would go to Lucius Cornelius. While you have
done some outstanding work as Censor, and are no doubt a caring
paterfamilias, this is overshadowed by your arrogance, pride and
bureaucratism. If about all people who have to date resigned named your name
in their public statement as a reason of resigning, and you continue to deny
that there is anything wrong, you are delusionary.

QFM: I am constantly baffled by the Lucius Cornelius that these people see.
I say look at the man's record, his kindness, his concern for the citizens'
well being, for respecting our traditions, and trying to learn what he does
not know. If Lucius Cornelius is guilty of one thing it is his over
exuberance often lands him in trouble, much like a zealous charging
cavalryman, who in haste to cross swords with his enemy, out strips the
protection of his
fellows. Is he arrogant? Perhaps but no more then any other citizen here.
Proud? The Cornelii are one of the oldest and famous Gens in the republic.
He has much to be proud of.
A bureaucrat? Absolutely. There is an old saying: "The Persians invented
bureaucracy, the Greeks used it and the Romans perfected it." I'm of course,
talking about the West, in the East the Chinese raised it to its highest
level. Without bureaucrats, the Romans never get outside the Latinin Plain,
let alone Italy.
People don't like him, because they never met him. Once you meet him, you
are struck by his infectious humor, impressed by the fact he is overcoming a
life threatening aliment, and amazed by the fact if he could, he'd give you
the shirt off his back. The gender mess was not Lucius Cornelius Sulla
"pulling" rank. It was the codification of the precedent sent by every other
Censor here in Nova Roma. However, because he was the first Censor to go
public with it, he gets the blame and the infamy.
This is so unfair. After his dedication to Nova Roma, to be so pilloried is
more then one can bear. However we do not see L. Cornelius Sulla quitting,
do we, citizens?
Finally I and the Fabii wish Sextus Apollonius a safe journey to what he is
truly seeking.
May he find it to please his soul. He cannot waive his 9 days privilege,
however. We have no precedent for that.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 03:17:47 -0800

Ave Sextus Apollonius,

Let me begin with and say that I did not expect to see you go. But,
that is not the overall purpose of my post to you.

You say I'm a bureaucrat. This I must say I take as a compliment.
By now I hope you have seen the censor handbook website
(http://home.earthlink.net/~alexious). With that you will see that the
office of the Censor is purely bureaucratic. I have tried to bring
organization and cohesiveness where there really was none previously.
While my tenure in that office has not been perfect, whose tenure in
office ever is perfect? I must say that I do think I did an above
satisfactory performance, despite your opinion otherwise. So, in this
case I must thank you for the compliment since being bureaucratic was
what I was striving for in the first place.

Vale and good luck in the Roman Road,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Focus of this List
From:	"Caius Cornelius Puteanus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 12:26:42 +0100

Salve, Priscilla Vedia Honorabilia!

First of all, thanks for the clarification about Pater Sulla's co-founding
status. He may not be with us as a co-founder, he is with us from the early
beginnings of our res publica!

I wanted to take up the glove of your friendly challenge as well. As all of
you know, I am doing some research for the Academia. You can view the essays
via my homepage. There is an article about the virtutes too, which is a
topic that will interest lots of people, since they are connecting us in our
Romanitas!

You can view it at:
www.geocities.com/Caius_Puteus_Germanicus/virtus1.html

Enjoy! :-)

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Cornelius Puteanus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/puteanus/

----- Original Message -----
From: "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 5:29 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Focus of this List

> Salve,
>
> Every so often List members raise the issue of too much of this or that
> topic here on the Main List. It is quite true that the List tends to
focus
> more on some aspects of our nation than others and there is hardly a
> balanced representation of our interests here. As we approach the new
year,
> I thought it might be wise to address this very valid issue.
>
> The best way to see posts here on the Main List that mirror your interests
> is to *post* about them. :) True, not every thread may develop into a
> lengthy conversation, but that is no reason not to try. I know for a fact
> that most Nova Romans, magistrates and political experts included, have a
> vast array of interests here beyond that of politics and laws. There is
an
> immense amount of knowledge and talent here and it is *totally*
appropriate
> and more than welcome to have conversations about poetry, philosophy, the
> religio, history, costuming, family life, the list is quite endless.
>
> I will be candid. I would dearly love to see far more discussion and
> exchange on these topics. I acknowledge that our government and its
> functions are important, but there is a huge world of Roman interest
beyond
> just that. A number of individuals suggest joining interest-specific
lists
> or Sodalitas in order to post about, to use one example, the arts. I am
all
> in favor of having separate discussion lists and of course the various
> Sodalitas are a credit to our Nation and the hard-working cives who join
and
> maintain them.
>
> What concerns me, however, is the feeling that one *must* go elsewhere to
> discuss these things. As Curatrix Sermonis I can tell you that Roman
topics
> of all sorts are welcome here and creating threads on various topics would
> breathe a lovely new life into this List. For those of you who feel
> defeated by the lengthy focus on politics, I would challenge <in a
friendly
> way LOL> you to take back this List and make it what *you* want to see it
> be. If the political posts don't suit you, start a conversation that
does.
> I, for one, would love to see just that take place. Politics has its
> rightful part to play, but it should not drown out all other interests or
> drive cives off to other areas in order to feel free to discussion recipes
> or the arts.
>
> In closing, I would offer a friendly challenge to *all* List members.
> Within the next month, make a conscious effort to start a thread dealing
> with something of particular interest to *you*. Make a conscious effort
to
> reply to other posts which also strike your interest. Take the time to
post
> your stories, book reviews, recipes, clothing information or religio
rituals
> here for us all to learn from and discuss. Only in this way, by taking a
> personal role in making this List be what you wish it to be, will change
> take place.
>
> I look forward to some interesting and diverse discussions in the coming
> weeks!
>
> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
> Curatrix Sermonis
> Lictor
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 12:55:23 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

I wish You a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
soon to be Senior Curule Aedile of Nova Roma
still Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10


Subject:	[novaroma] Fw: [ThuleAcademia] Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
From:	"Caius Cornelius Puteanus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 13:34:26 +0100

Salvete omnes!

My best wishes for 2755 as well! And enjoy the Yule-festival, aka Christmas
:-)

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Cornelius Puteanus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/puteanus/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Resignation
From:	mike rasschaert <morosbe2001@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 02:56:46 -0800 (PST)

Salve Cai
> OK, NRHumanitas, a list I created, wasn't a great
> success. No problem to me:
> I found a different way to help spreading the
> cultural, historical,
> philosophical accomplishments of our forebears. When
> will you join us?
Send me the invitation. I'm more for the historical
side than of the philosophical side. Hey if i can
help. i 'll help.
> Just like you attacked Pater Sulla many times in
> private conversation, I
> will answer the same thing again. I am glad that
> Sulla is with us, since he
> is an honest, hard working individual with a lot of
> experience as Senator
> and co-founder of Nova Roma. I don't have to make
> the defence of Sulla here,
> since that would only overjoy you because 'I didn't
> shut up quietly as if
> nothing happened'.
Everybody has the right to have their own opinions.
The only reason why i post my opinions instead of
showing them to those people i have problems with is
because at one part of the conversation they forwarded
to the mainlist so its best that i start it here.
> I have always defended your accomplishments in the
> field of Religio Romana
> and Hellenic Paganism. Why don't you share some of
> that with us? You write
> promising texts, with good overviews in it, where
> are they? Please stop
> insulting people and add some incentive here!
I thank you for it to that you did this. The reason
why i don't post them is because i'm not that great at
english and i only write best in dutch. BTW where is
the freedom of expressing opinion went. Everybody has
the right to express their opinion even though nobody
agrees with it. Don't attack me on this because i
understand the irony when i say this.
> I say this to you, not as a 'hostile Cornelius with
> patrician air and an
> arrogant mouth',
I don't think of you like that at all.
Valete optimi pax deorum
Tiberius Apollonius Callias

=====
Permitto Deorum Orcus(Hades)quod Trivia(Hekate)tu beate quod contego

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	mike rasschaert <morosbe2001@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 03:56:04 -0800 (PST)


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On Sextus Apollonius Resignation
From:	"Rachel" <racheledugdale@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 11:57:23 -0000

Greetings to all.

Before I begin to respond to the topics raised here, I think I ought
probably to introduce myself. My legal name is Rachel, and my Nova Roman
name is Gaia Claudia Lucentia Livia. I am 18 years old, and will begin to
study Classics at Oxford University in October. I have been a citizen for
only six days, yet so far I find I like what I have seen of our society.

I found it surprising that someone would resign from a political post, in
Rome (most perfectly political of nations), because they felt the emphasis
was too political. I have only been studying the Classical world for a
short period, but as I understand it the Romans then were *proud* to be a
political nation. Hence their acceptance that the Greeks were superior in
culture, and their adoptions and imitations of such therefore. It strikes
me that perhaps Sextus Appolonius is really looking for New Athens, rather
than New Rome. And especially, as Q. Fabius Maximus so rightly says, around
election time, politics must take priority in Roman life. I also agree with
Q. Fabius Maximus that, as Rome was not built in a day, we cannot expect our
own society to be 'finished' in a mere four years.

However, I do not deny the importance of culture, and hope that all those
who are interested in such matters (myself included) will be free to pursue
their interests in a fully supportive community here. I cannot help feeling
that this will be the case - so long as two people of the thousand or so who
are citizens share an interest in a topic, it should be available for
discussion.

On the point of Latin, I have joined the relevant Sodalitas, and will be
embarking on formal study of the language in January. I realise that if I
try to write in Latin at the moment, I will only embarass myself, but hope
that before too long I will be able to do so with confidence. I also hope
that, when I do reach that stage, those who are more advanced than I will
correct me mercilessly.

I would also like to express, just for the record, my interest in the
Religio Romana also, and hopefully when I get home (I'm currently in London
for the holidays) I will be able to set up some kind of Lararium there. I
think the pages of information on the Religio Romana site will be of great
use there. I have also written to the two current members of the Collegium
Augurium, asking what study must be undertaken if I wish to join their
ranks.

All in all, my point is that although I am new here, I do think I shall
enjoy it, and hope that everyone else here can also put some effort in to
making Nova Roma what they want it to be, if they are currently
dissatisfied.

May the gods protect you all,

Livia.


Subject:	[novaroma] checks and balances
From:	"Caius Cornelius Puteanus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 14:50:56 +0100

Salve Tiberie!

I have to inform you ther IS a system of check and balances well in place in
both Roma antiqua and Nova Roma. It is not uncommon for a senator to be a
consul! Please check out the text of Polybius, chapter VI to see which
checks and balances are in place:
www.geocitites.com/Caius_Puteus_Germanicus/polybius.html

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Cornelius Puteanus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/puteanus/

----- Original Message -----
From: "mike rasschaert" <morosbe2001@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Resignation

> Salve Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > While my tenure in that office has not been perfect,
> > whose tenure in
> > office ever is perfect? I have to agree with you on
> this one but still you let your emotions drive you
> which is not good for a senator and consul. Personally
> i don't like that a senator can be a consul at the
> same time but the two must be separate. However, like
> in the USA there is a system of Check and Balances.
> Does Nova Roma has this to? Mayby whe should
> incorperate this into Nova Roma so that one party can
> control the other and visa versa.
> I must say that I do think
> > I did an above
> > satisfactory performance, despite your opinion
> > otherwise. So, in this
> > case I must thank you for the compliment since being
> > bureaucratic was
> > what I was striving for in the first place.
> I knew it!! Sorry i got ahead of myself here. I found
> it funny that you admit to be a bureacrat.
> Vale optimi pax deorum
> Tiberius Apollonius Callias
>
> =====
> Permitto Deorum Orcus(Hades)quod Trivia(Hekate)tu beate quod contego
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:02:12 +0100

Salve Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> While my tenure in that office has not been perfect,
> whose tenure in
> office ever is perfect? I have to agree with you on
this one but still you let your emotions drive you
which is not good for a senator and consul. Personally
i don't like that a senator can be a consul at the
same time but the two must be separate. However, like
in the USA there is a system of Check and Balances.
Does Nova Roma has this to? Mayby we should
incorperate this into Nova Roma so that one party can
control the other and visa versa.
I must say that I do think

Salve Honorable Tiberius Apollonius Callias!

I am glad to see You back, I hope that You will try to be polite this time.
Irony is OK, but there is a limit, at least for me.

Have You read the Constitution of Nova Roma and studied the Constitution of
Roma Antiqua? You should do that! Both are beautiful. Thanks founders of
Nova Roma, especially Illustrus Flavius Vedius Germanicus!

I mostly have to much to do, but I want to answer this. ALL (not screaming)
Consuls were Senator. A Roman tried to climb the Cursus Honorum (Quaestor,
Praetor and at last Consul), he was appointed to the Senate auto atically
when he became a Quaestor. So You see all Consuls were Senators. Only the
Censors could dismiss a Senator, but he would be automatically appointed to
the Senate if he had been dismissed when he was elected Consul. Futhermore
the Consuls were the Chairmen of the Senate. in Nova roma this change from
Quaestor to Praetor (Lex Vedia Senatoria (7/30/99): guidelines for censors
to appoint Senators, http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/lex99073003.html )
otherwise we would have to many Senators. So You can say that most Senators
are elected by the people.

It is the Tribuni Plebi that are the real checks against the higher
magistrates and the intercessio each magistrate had against each magistrate
at his own level and lower. A Roman also had the right of Appellatio, to
appeal to a magistrate of the same level or higher or to appeal to the
People, Provocatio. Provocatio (II.B.5.) is found in the Constitution of
Nova Roma. I think that You could say that Appellatio exists too as the
intercessio between magistrates is mentioned (IV. A.2 - IV. B.1.).

I would say that the Constitution of Roma Antiqua is superior, in some
respects, to the Constitutions of the Presidential democracies (like USA)
and the Parlamentary democracies (like Sweden). These democracies also have
weaknesses in issues that are not even to be found in Roma Antiqua, that is
the Representative democracy of many modern states. I find myself to often
wish that my own country would copy Roma Antiqua. That is one of the
reasons I am here. Of course Nova Roma has its faults, but I haven't come
here to make it a copy of Sweden. I don't need to, Sweden already exists.

I wish You luck in your endevours in Nova Roma!

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
soon to be Senior Curule Aedile of Nova Roma
still Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that doesn't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On Sextus Apollonius Resignation
From:	"Anderson de Araujo Martins Esteves" <esteves@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 13:22:36 -0200 (EDT)

Salvete Quirites

(Maximus scripsit)
> May he find it to please his soul. He cannot waive his 9 days privilege,
> however. We have no precedent for that.
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus.

I am a little confused now. Precedents in Nova Roma? I don't know how the
juridical system used in the USA and GB could possibly have something to do
with our Republic.
Could anybody clarify this for me please?

Valete

Titus Horatius Atticus


Subject:	[novaroma] Rites and Rituals
From:	mark zona <pitdog2002@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 07:41:27 -0800 (PST)

Salve!

I have a request of the Pontifaces of Rome, though it
is a fairly large request.
The Pontifaces have done a large amount of invaluable
research with regards to the Religio, and are amassing
a wealth of information. Over the coarse of time, I
would like to request that this information be
condensed into a book of Rites and Rituals of the
Religio Romana and sold to the public, so that we can
have in book form all the rituals we need to properly
perform prayers and sacrifice to the Eternal Gods.
I know this is no small matter, and would take a great
deal of time to complete. I also think the book should
be sold at a hefty price to compensate the laborers in
this task.
This in the long run may also "lighten" the work load
of the Pontiface, as the requests for specific ritual
informations should lessen as the knowledge would be
readily available in the book.
Any thoughts on this matter is appreciated :)

Vale Bene!

Marcus Antonius Zeno

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On Sextus Apollonius Resignation
From:	"Julilla" <curatrix@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:09:27 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Anderson de Araujo Martins Esteves"
<esteves@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites
>
>
> (Maximus scripsit)
> > May he find it to please his soul. He cannot waive his 9 days
privilege,
> > however. We have no precedent for that.
> > Valete
> > Q. Fabius Maximus.
>
> I am a little confused now. Precedents in Nova Roma? I don't know
how the juridical system used in the USA and GB could possibly have
something to do with our Republic.
> Could anybody clarify this for me please?
>
> Valete
>
> Titus Horatius Atticus

To clarify, "precedent" is a word in the English language (inherited
from Middle French and ultimately from Latin). The way Q. Fabius
Maximus wrote it meant 'something done or said that may serve as an
example or rule to authorize or justify a subsequent act of the same
kind, as in "a verdict that had no precedent." Precedent also means
the convention established by such a precedent or by long practice.'

Hope this helps,

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| Curatrix Araneae
America Boreoccidentalis
http://ambor.fws1.com
Rogatrix, MMDCCLV


Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma's splendid Future
From:	"Caius Cornelius Puteanus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 21:52:29 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

After all the difficult topics that have been mentionned here and that were
fought over by different cives, it is about time that Roma, our protective
goddess, shows us which splendid Future awaits our micronation!

Since I joined our res publica just a few months ago, about one hundred new
cives and prospects have shown themselves, meaning that Romanitas is
spreading all over the world. Both in the Old and the New World, our nation
is growing, as we have seen from the many good news messages from e.g.
Provincia Argentinia and Provincia Germania just recently. All these new
people bring with them a lot of hopes and potential projects, and the
projects already at stake have develloped in a favorable way. Fortuna has
been with us, and she will be in 2755 as well! We have elected a new team of
capable magistrates that will guide us, and since our numbers have grown, so
will their participation and so will - eventually - our name.

Rome is a nation of more than 2750 y.o., and it has always known both
difficult and prosperous periods. It has been growing for almost a thousand
years and today, it is growing once again! We have many marvellous examples
in Antiquity, our Western culture bears its fruits, and today we have many
capable Romans among us. You can compare the history of Rome in one way or
another with that of the Jewish people: it is the history of a strong
nation, ever growing and until now, no terror has been able to stop it. The
Jews have had no land to call their own for a very long time and have spread
all over the world. Today, they still are a universal nation, even though
there is one country that is their promised land.

We might have to wait for a long time, every one reading this message today
might already have passed away and passed the Romanitas to their children,
but Patientia will guide us until we will have some land to call our own.
And even if this land is 'conquered' tomorrow, we still wouldn't lose our
universal aspect.

Fortuna be blessed, Roma as well, since the woulf is never captured and will
keep protecting us, as long as we honor the eternal gods of Rome! This is my
good intention for 2755, and I hope that, no matter the differences their
might be, Concordia will gather us around this ambitious micronational
project!

My best wishes for the New Year, and may Ianus not fool you! ;-)

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Cornelius Puteanus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/puteanus/


Subject:	[novaroma] Absentia
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gaius=20Quirinus=20Caesar?= <gaius_quirinus_caesar@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:50:22 +0100 (CET)

Gaius Quirinus Caesar Quiritubus SPD

The year's ending and I'm going to have some rest days
with my parents, than I may not be present to the chat
of 1st January and I'm sorry about it.
I will be absent from tomorrow to 2/3 January.
I'm sorry.

Merry Christmas -if you're Christians- and -to
evrebody- happy new year!

Vale,
Gaius Quirinus

______________________________________________________________________

Iscriviti al Meglio della Settimana, la newsletter di Yahoo!
Per saperne di pi� vai alla pagina: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/buongiorno.html


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On Sextus Apollonius Resignation
From:	"radams36" <radams40@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 21:56:24 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Rachel" <racheledugdale@--------> wrote:
> Greetings to all.
>
> Before I begin to respond to the topics raised here, I think I ought
> probably to introduce myself. My legal name is Rachel, and my Nova
Roman
> name is Gaia Claudia Lucentia Livia. I am 18 years old, and will
begin to
> study Classics at Oxford University in October. I have been a
citizen for
> only six days, yet so far I find I like what I have seen of our
society.
>
> I found it surprising that someone would resign from a political
post, in
> Rome (most perfectly political of nations), because they felt the
emphasis
> was too political. I have only been studying the Classical world
for a
> short period, but as I understand it the Romans then were *proud*
to be a
> political nation. Hence their acceptance that the Greeks were
superior in
> culture, and their adoptions and imitations of such therefore. It
strikes
> me that perhaps Sextus Appolonius is really looking for New Athens,
rather
> than New Rome. And especially, as Q. Fabius Maximus so rightly
says, around
> election time, politics must take priority in Roman life. I also
agree with
> Q. Fabius Maximus that, as Rome was not built in a day, we cannot
expect our
> own society to be 'finished' in a mere four years.
>
> However, I do not deny the importance of culture, and hope that all
those
> who are interested in such matters (myself included) will be free
to pursue
> their interests in a fully supportive community here. I cannot
help feeling
> that this will be the case - so long as two people of the thousand
or so who
> are citizens share an interest in a topic, it should be available
for
> discussion.
>
> On the point of Latin, I have joined the relevant Sodalitas, and
will be
> embarking on formal study of the language in January. I realise
that if I
> try to write in Latin at the moment, I will only embarass myself,
but hope
> that before too long I will be able to do so with confidence. I
also hope
> that, when I do reach that stage, those who are more advanced than
I will
> correct me mercilessly.
>
> I would also like to express, just for the record, my interest in
the
> Religio Romana also, and hopefully when I get home (I'm currently
in London
> for the holidays) I will be able to set up some kind of Lararium
there. I
> think the pages of information on the Religio Romana site will be
of great
> use there. I have also written to the two current members of the
Collegium
> Augurium, asking what study must be undertaken if I wish to join
their
> ranks.
>
> All in all, my point is that although I am new here, I do think I
shall
> enjoy it, and hope that everyone else here can also put some effort
in to
> making Nova Roma what they want it to be, if they are currently
> dissatisfied.
>
> May the gods protect you all,
>
> Livia.

Welcome aboard, Livia, I hope you will find the society here as
stimulating and pleasurable as I have! This is certainly a lively and
active discussion group, with some very interesting discourse always
going on.

Vale!

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus


Subject:	[novaroma] New Academia Thule text on virtues
From:	"Caius Cornelius Puteanus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:02:24 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

I have had a productive weekend; here's one result of it, a new text about
the life of Agricola by Tacitus. Enjoy!

http://www.geocities.com/Caius_Puteus_Germanicus/virtus2.html

I send a copy of this message to the main list, in response to the friendly
challenge of Priscilla Vedia!
Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Cornelius Puteanus
Lictor
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/puteanus/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Academia Thule text on virtues
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 14:15:03 -0800

Ave,

Excellent I shall enjoy reading this early next week. I have enjoyed
reading your epitomes. (I believe this would be the correct word.)

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Caius Cornelius Puteanus wrote:
>
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> I have had a productive weekend; here's one result of it, a new text
> about
> the life of Agricola by Tacitus. Enjoy!
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Caius_Puteus_Germanicus/virtus2.html
>
> I send a copy of this message to the main list, in response to the
> friendly
> challenge of Priscilla Vedia!
> Vale optime in pace deorum!
>
> Caius Cornelius Puteanus
> Lictor
> Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
> Scriba Explorator Academiae Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque
> Occidentalis
> Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
> http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
> http://www.geocities.com/puteanus/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] checks and balances
From:	mike rasschaert <morosbe2001@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 06:38:40 -0800 (PST)

Salve Caius
Explain to me than how this system work for Nova Roma
and during the ancient times? Because i don't know
anything or heard anything about it about the checks
and balances during the roman empire.
Valete optimi pax deorum
Tiberius Apollonius Callias

=====
Permitto Deorum Orcus(Hades)quod Trivia(Hekate)tu beate quod contego

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] checks and balances
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	23 Dec 2001 12:56:17 -0200

On Sun, 2001-12-23 at 11:50, Caius Cornelius Puteanus wrote:
> Salve Tiberie!
>
> I have to inform you ther IS a system of check and balances well in place in
> both Roma antiqua and Nova Roma. It is not uncommon for a senator to be a
> consul! Please check out the text of Polybius, chapter VI to see which
> checks and balances are in place:
> www.geocitites.com/Caius_Puteus_Germanicus/polybius.html
>

Salve,

In fact from the IV cent. BC on, it was the rule since
the informal Path of Honours placed the Consulshup at the
end of the carrier, while holding any curule magistrature
was already the entrance to the senate.

In the I cent. BC being tribune of the plebs became also a way
to _automatically_ enter the senate.

If we have a problem in NR it is more due to our small senate then
to the fact that senators are magistrates. I feel we could have
an automatic entry for holding a charge above ... (to be determined)

For the pure check and Balance, we have the tribunes of the plebs which
can veto any decision made by a consul.

And finally remember: the Senate is not our legislative body, the
legislative power is held by the Comitiae, i.e. we the people.
The Senate is only a consultative body in legislative matter.

The only point were the Senate's prerogatives are a little over-extended
is the nomination of the Provincial Governators. This was the case for
the newer provinces (post IIIcent. BC) only, and because those were
_conquered_ places, we are all equally citizens, the border of NovaRoma
is outer space, and we should perhaps have general elections for our
governators (are alternatively local election if we think of our
provinces more as Coloniae instead of provinces)

Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Coins OVER 1 month LATE
From:	"sifurichmooney" <sifurichmooney@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:15:34 -0000

Please let me know when I am to receive them.

I received a notice 17 days ago saying they would be
sent within a week or so.

Thats was over 10 days ago......

Thanks

T T Germanicus

aka

sifurichmooney @ Yahoo.com


Subject:	[novaroma] R: Resignation
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 15:30:12 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar S. Apollonio Draco S.P.D.

Good bye, amice, I'm very dipleased for your departure. We didn't talk but I was following your projects, discussions and fights. After Formosanus, I thing Nova Roma lost another good, progressist and able citizen: this is the signal of problems and contrasts in NR and I hope the Magistrates and all we citizens could understand and improve.

Vale amice, et bonam fortunam.

Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Soon Quaestor
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia
Paterfamilias Gens Apula
www.gensapula.too.it
----------------------------------------
Alme Sol ... Possis Nihil Urbe Roma Visere Maius
----------------------------------------
Support me as Propraetor Italiae Provinciae
----- Original Message -----
From: S. Apollonius Draco
To: Nova Roma ; NR Europe
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 12:01 PM
Subject: [novaroma_europe] Resignation

Salvete Quirites,

Quite unexpectedly perhaps, I offer you my resignation, in what will probably be my last e-mail to the main list of NR. In relinquishing my citizenship of Nova Roma, I also resign from any and all offices I hold, be they provincial, central or of some other importance to this micronation. I also waive my nine days period of reconsideration, and would like my resignation to become effective immediately.

In a similar fashion to my earlier - and consequently aborted - attempt at resigning at the end of May this year, I will offer you my reasons, although a little more elaborate, perhaps. Note also that below paragraph contains general remarks, and do not refer to _everyone_ as such, or to someone _specifical_.

Nova Roma was inspired by noble and great ideals. I have a lot of respect for the research and work that has been done in the area of the Religio Romana and the Sodalitas Militarium, which deserves some praise. However, there is very little interest here in philosophy, literature, poetry or the arts in general. I have ceaselessly tried to promote those facets of Roman civilisation ever since I assumed the office of leader of the Sodalitas Musarum, but to no avail. In a distant future, this situation may improve, but I cannot wait forever, toiling away in darkness. Another disappointing facet of Nova Roma is its latinity. While there are some excellent latinists, and a group of people is actively trying to learn the language, for most of the time Latin here is gruesome, and corrections are regarded as pedantic.

The disproportional role politics play in Nova Roma also show that most active people are more concerned with the organisation itself than with actually making it reach its goal. I will not elaborate on the whys, hows and whos of that. Most of the time, politics here are heavy factionalised, driven by emotions or naked opportunism rather than ideals, and show a strong leaning to the conservative side of the political spectrum. Laws have been created that bear a silent testimony of this regime. Ever since I became politically active, I have tried to revert this tendency, and have been met with serious opposition, sometimes honest and serious, sometimes mean and vicious. I am not entirely innocent myself, of course. However, looking back at this one and a half year, and the countless emails I have written, the progress I have been making is too slow for what it is worth.

And now, there is the case of my involvement in Societas Via Romana. Over there, as well as here, I am under fire by a small yet fervent minority, that views me as a threat or a hostile element. I realise that if I stay here, I will remain under fire for my membership in SVR forever, which may have - and is having - bad consequences for that organisation. My citizenship in Nova Roma is becoming unhealthy for me: headaches, sleeplessness and other nasty things plague me from time to time. I don't want to appear like a martyr for any cause whatsoever, but the negative sides of my involvement in NR are simply becoming too overwhelming.

In this fourth paragraph, an apology is in its place. I apologise to the people that voted for me, and that I in some way let down, but I did not want to be an oath breaker. I apologise for abruptly interrupting, when the Mars novel had almost come to an end, and when I was due to attend a meeting in Germania Inferior. I also apologise to those who are still fightning to revert some injust legislation and steer Nova Roma back on course of its original goals; you might feel that I am leaving you behind. In a sense, I am, but in another way, you are well aware that there is another Roman community out there, although different in purpose, that you would probably feel more at ease in. But in short, I feel that right now, before I would be required to swear my oath of office as Aedilis Plebis, is the most appropriate time to resign, and forever disappear out of Nova Roma.

As I did last time, I would like to say a few words of thanks to some people. Without those people, I would have been gone here much earlier. Inspiring examples of Romanitas for me were people such as Titus Labienus, Marcus Octavius, Alexander Probus, Pompeia Cornelia, Caeso Fabius, Domna Claudia, Gnaeus Salix and Marcus Minucius. Other praiseworthy people, like Caius Flavius, Marcus Arminius, Iasonus Serenus, Lucius Pompeius, Caius Puteus and Ianus Querius spring to mind. And there are probably a lot that I have failed to mention. To those, whom I consider my friends, I wish them good luck in their further life in this micronation, and regardless of affiliation, will continue to consider them friends.

In contrast to my speech last time, I would also like to make to some time to address a few words to my opponents. To Quintus Fabius, all I can say is that he was a worthy poliitcal opponent, and I enjoyed talking to him on several occasions. Same goes for Lucius Sicinius, in spite of all our differences. You might feel some justified relief that I have departed from NR. A special word, perhaps, would go to Lucius Cornelius. While you have done some outstanding work as Censor, and are no doubt a caring paterfamilias, this is overshadowed by your arrogance, pride and bureaucratism. If about all people who have todate resigned named your name in their public statement as a reason of resigning, and you continue to deny that there is anything wrong, you are delusionary. There are also countless smaller fish, who have an immaturity of character that is unparallelled even by the majority of my peers, and I don't consider it worth mentioning their names. They will reveal themselves by ridiculing me when I am gone, by twisting my words and abusing my name, like vultures tear at the corpse of an animal they did not kill themselves.

On a more positive note, I leave you with the hope that Nova Roma shall become what it was intended to, and I will peacefully retreat to Societas Via Romana. To my friends, I hope that we will be able to maintain cordial ties, and to my former opponents, I hope all of you will improve for the better and have a happy life.

Valete bene,
Sextus Apollonius Draco

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Rites and Rituals
From:	Valerian75@--------
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 11:48:11 EST

Salve!

I think this is a great idea. Maybe the price could be lower for citizens
though. Or something to that nature. I have made a sort of scrapbook from
printouts. I have pasted them into my journal to refer to when rituals come
up. No one else sees it but me. I did it so that I would not have to refer
to the website all the time. I hope that it does get some consideration
atleast. I would be happy to contribute what I can if allowed to.

Vale,
Lucia Ambrosia Valeria
Valerian75@--------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------

> Salve!
>
> I have a request of the Pontifaces of Rome, though it
> is a fairly large request.
> The Pontifaces have done a large amount of invaluable
> research with regards to the Religio, and are amassing
> a wealth of information. Over the coarse of time, I
> would like to request that this information be
> condensed into a book of Rites and Rituals of the
> Religio Romana and sold to the public, so that we can
> have in book form all the rituals we need to properly
> perform prayers and sacrifice to the Eternal Gods.
> I know this is no small matter, and would take a great
> deal of time to complete. I also think the book should
> be sold at a hefty price to compensate the laborers in
> this task.
> This in the long run may also "lighten" the work load
> of the Pontiface, as the requests for specific ritual
> informations should lessen as the knowledge would be
> readily available in the book.
> Any thoughts on this matter is appreciated :)
>
> Vale Bene!
>
> Marcus Antonius Zeno
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	mike rasschaert <morosbe2001@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:20:10 -0800 (PST)

Salve Honorable Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

I didn't knew this but i will read it between studying
the roman history,etc.. Thanks for the information
Caeso, i appreciate it. My opinion about the old Roman
constitution and laws(don't scream or attack me yet)
is that we should accept it but also change it so that
it is updated(not all of them) i'm talking about the
laws that deals with social and religious matters.
Like i said, i haven't read the constitution yet but i
will do it.
Vale optimi pax deorum
Tiberius Apollonius Callias

=====
Permitto Deorum Orcus(Hades)quod Trivia(Hekate)tu beate quod contego

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com


Subject:	[novaroma] Graeco Roman religion
From:	mike rasschaert <morosbe2001@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:44:57 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites
I have a question since the official point of view on
the Gods is that they are not the Greek/Hellenic Gods
and visa versa. But when i looked at the album gentium
i see that many of the gens do worship the gods like
this like Bacchus-Dionysus, Hekate, etc..
I have no problem with it but Formusanus told me once
that he was denied application for priesthood because
he saw Minerva as the Roman aspect of Athena.
I have no problem with this. I do worship them the
same way but i find it perculiar.
Another thing that i find perculiar is some gods were
worshiped under different names like for example Mars
Ulter and Mars Invictus. Can anyone tell me the
difference between those dieties besides that sprung
from one deity.
Valete optimi pax deorum
Tiberius Apollonius Callias

=====
Permitto Deorum Orcus(Hades)quod Trivia(Hekate)tu beate quod contego

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: "censored"
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	23 Dec 2001 17:14:04 -0200

Salve Ponpeia,
On Fri, 2001-12-21 at 13:56, pompeia_cornelia wrote:
> ---Salve Mani:
>
> *If* this is not censorship? I *thought* we were innocent until
> proven guilty........
>

Well that's a right that a previous censor looses, since only he knows
what he is doing, the messages are not 'traceable' until they come back.

I intended to answer to Priscilla's mail but it seems I deleted it, so
here comes answer:

One should not generalize, my opposition to the previous censores of
this list, I always thought that Pompeia is open to discussion and
actually listens to what people are saying to her, that is not the case
for Priscilla.

That's why I included Pompeia in my list of endorsments.

Vale,

Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Coins OVER 1 month LATE
From:	"cassius622" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:07:22 -0000

Salvete,

There are about a half-dozen coin orders which are now VERY overdue,
some by over 30 days.

I've simply had no time to deal with them. My work has been extremely
busy with holiday work for the past month, and in Nova Roma I've been
responsible for the end of year votes and elections. (Those DID get
done on time!)

No Nova Roma coin or flag orders will be shipped until after Dec.
25th. The holiday rush for my day job will be over, and most of the
end of year NR work is complete as well. I'm very much looking
forward to having less official work this next year!

Anyway, my sincere apologies to anyone who's been waiting in vain for
their Nova Roma merchandise. I'll happily issue a refund of money to
anyone who's tired of waiting. Requests for refunds should be mailed
to me privately at cassius622@--------, public complaints and assaults
on my personal charachter can of course always be published here to
the main list. :P

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

--- In novaroma@--------, "sifurichmoone--------lt;sifurichmoone--------..> wrote:
> Please let me know when I am to receive them.
>
> I received a notice 17 days ago saying they would be
> sent within a week or so.
>
> Thats was over 10 days ago......
>
>
> Thanks
>
> T T Germanicus
>
> aka
>
> sifurichmooney @ Yahoo.com


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On Sextus Apollonius Resignation
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:10:01 -0000

---Salvete Omnes:

I am not sure it is a matter of precedent, necessarily, (although
precedents carry weight) it is a case of there being no *proviso* in
the established law for one to waive the 9-day period prior to a
resignation taking effect.

The way I read the law is that, although this is Draco's second time
resigning, he still has 9 days to reconsider, after which he will have
to wait a certain time, longer than in the first instance, prior to
his return.

I have had the opportunity of working closely with Draco in various
Sodalitas projects. Contrary to what a couple of people have said, he
has done a good deal for Nova Roma. It is not easy to be me, however;
I see the good in L.Cornelius Sulla, and Draco also.xxxxxxxxxxxx

As I have said before, however, my heart and convictions are with Nova
Roma.

I have written privately to Draco.

For the moment, I would like to see him take a few days to collect his
thoughts, enjoy some peace, and in the ensuing days he will be better
able to make some concrete decisions regarding his future.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
Candidate Praetor 2755 AUC

In novaroma@--------, "Anderson de Araujo Martins Esteves"
<esteves@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites
>
>
> (Maximus scripsit)
> > May he find it to please his soul. He cannot waive his 9 days
privilege,
> > however. We have no precedent for that.
> > Valete
> > Q. Fabius Maximus.
>
> I am a little confused now. Precedents in Nova Roma? I don't know
how the
> juridical system used in the USA and GB could possibly have
something to do
> with our Republic.
> Could anybody clarify this for me please?
>
> Valete
>
> Titus Horatius Atticus


Subject:	[novaroma] Spirit of the Season and Politics
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:25:25 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

I have discussed this issue, unofficially with a couple of people, and
a magistrate.

Although politics is bound to dominate the forum during the time of
the election, I wonder sometimes, if we do not make a profound error
in our timing.

When our politicals take a front seat over one of the most important
socio/religio times of the year, one wonders if this shouldn't be more
closely examined.

It is historically correct that Consuls take office January 1st . I
am all for this continuing, in keeping with the practise of the
ancients.

However.........

Would I would like to see in future is our magisterial elections held
the last week of November, so any runoff elections would hopefully
have been held prior to the Dec. 17 onset of the Festival of
Saturnalia.

Saturnalia and Politics are a poor combo.......an *odd couple*.
Political debates can get heated (acidic) sometimes, and this is to be
expected with delicate political issues. No problem. Lets just do
most of our *mudslinging* prior to Saturnalia, nonne?

Oh, we will always have politics in the forum, regardless of what
religious holidays prevail, but this is a time of year where we should
be celebrating each other as members of a community rich with talent,
virtue and blessing, and diversity.

We should be sending each other cards, reflecting on our Saturnalia
plans and traditions. Sharing poems, stories, humours. We should be
celebrating *Saturnalia*, during December, not *reenacting the riots
during the grain doles of Saturninus*......

What are your thoughts, quirites?

Pompeia Cornelia
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
Candidate Praetor 2755 AUC