Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Venator, the ebook!
From:	Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@inwave.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:44:28 -0600

Health and Luck All!

The Digital Dwarf online store ebook section is open!
Unfinished Skaldstone - Book the First is now available!

http://www.midhnottsol.org/dd/ebooks002.html

This is the first of what I hope will be many collections of poems from my hand.

Now, to join the Macellum!

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis, may the Gods see you!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives et Vates


Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Census
From:	Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:18:19 -0800 (PST)

Fellow Citizens. I think it is time we start cutting
away the dead weight, and begin rebuilding Nova Roma
into what it has the potential to become.

What good is 900 citizens, when only 100 do anything?
Why in my own provincia, I have six citizens listed,
and absolutly no way of contacting them! Effective
February 1, I will be conducting a Provincial Census.
The goal of this is to see who is actually still a
citizen, and how active they wish to be. Everyone
will be given two months to comply with this census,
and then I will request the the Censors remove all
non-active citizens. I think it is time that persons
such as myself (and other governors), members of the
Senate, and the many elected magistrates, start
working towards making Nova Roma more known, having
more gatherings on a local level, and bringing in new
blood to help us grow. Every citizen I have spoken to
in my provincia supports this idea, and I now
challenge other governors, and our Honorable Senate to
follow this lead, and begin a campaign to become more
proactive. And to those like Pompea Cornelia and
Marcus Audens who are already working towards this
same goal, myself and the citizens of my provincia
want you to know that you are not alone.

In Service to the Dream,
Marcus Scipio Africanus
Propraetor of Lacus Magni

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Census
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:30:46 -0800

Ave,

Legislation pertaining to this is being drafted currently and I hope
that the People of Nova Roma see the wisdom in passing this legislation.

Very Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma

Shane Evans wrote:

> Fellow Citizens. I think it is time we start cutting
> away the dead weight, and begin rebuilding Nova Roma
> into what it has the potential to become.
>
> What good is 900 citizens, when only 100 do anything?
> Why in my own provincia, I have six citizens listed,
> and absolutly no way of contacting them! Effective
> February 1, I will be conducting a Provincial Census.
> The goal of this is to see who is actually still a
> citizen, and how active they wish to be. Everyone
> will be given two months to comply with this census,
> and then I will request the the Censors remove all
> non-active citizens. I think it is time that persons
> such as myself (and other governors), members of the
> Senate, and the many elected magistrates, start
> working towards making Nova Roma more known, having
> more gatherings on a local level, and bringing in new
> blood to help us grow. Every citizen I have spoken to
> in my provincia supports this idea, and I now
> challenge other governors, and our Honorable Senate to
> follow this lead, and begin a campaign to become more
> proactive. And to those like Pompea Cornelia and
> Marcus Audens who are already working towards this
> same goal, myself and the citizens of my provincia
> want you to know that you are not alone.
>
> In Service to the Dream,
> Marcus Scipio Africanus
> Propraetor of Lacus Magni
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
[Image]

>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Census (think)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@yahoo.com.au>
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 22:23:10 +1100 (EST)

Salvete omnes,

I think legislation of this sort can only end in
hurting Nova Roma. While there are those who are
genuinely dead wood, there are those who will be
labelled as such even when they are not. I can give
certain examples of this: Lucius Sergius was
unavailable for great periods of time during his
tribunate, and yet he still wished and I beleive still
wishes to be an active citizen. Then there is also
Marcus Traianus, who was inactive for a very long time
and eventually resurfaced and began posting to the
main list. I feel that legislation like this can
damage our society. Some people join Nova Roma for the
love of being Roman, or their admiration for the
Romans, without wanting to complicate things by being
mired in some of the lists' beauraucratic matters. Are
we to become truly non-human, and instead become a
utilitarian society where people should only exist if
they have importance? Even the Roman civilization,
through republic and empire, kept its citizens and
even occasionaly fed them (at state expense) even if
they contributed nothing beyond children. What is to
come next? Should we dispense with poor people just
because they contribute nothing to society?

I myself beleive that something should be done, but it
is doubtful that anything can be done effectively. If
we 'expel' every non-contributing citizen, then
eventually we may have to stop any new members from
joining...well, who knows, they may not contribute
anything to our society, and we wouldn't want to run
that sort of risk, now would we?;-)

Valete bene omnes,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
<alexious@earthlink.net> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
Ave, 
 
Legislation pertaining to this is being drafted
currently and I hope 
that the People of Nova Roma see the wisdom in passing
this legislation. 
 
Very Respectfully, 
 
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix 
Consul of Nova Roma 
 
Shane Evans wrote: 
 
> Fellow Citizens. I think it is time
we start cutting 
> away the dead weight, and begin rebuilding Nova
Roma 
> into what it has the potential to become. 
> 
> What good is 900 citizens, when only 100 do
anything? 
> Why in my own provincia, I have six citizens
listed, 
> and absolutly no way of contacting them!
Effective 
> February 1, I will be conducting a Provincial
Census. 
> The goal of this is to see who is actually still
a 
> citizen, and how active they wish to be.
Everyone 
> will be given two months to comply with this
census, 
> and then I will request the the Censors remove
all 
> non-active citizens. I think it is time
that persons 
> such as myself (and other governors), members of
the 
> Senate, and the many elected magistrates,
start 
> working towards making Nova Roma more known,
having 
> more gatherings on a local level, and bringing in
new 
> blood to help us grow. Every citizen I have
spoken to 
> in my provincia supports this idea, and I now 
> challenge other governors, and our Honorable
Senate to 
> follow this lead, and begin a campaign to become
more 
> proactive. And to those like Pompea
Cornelia and 
> Marcus Audens who are already working towards
this 
> same goal, myself and the citizens of my
provincia 
> want you to know that you are not alone. 
> 
> In Service to the Dream, 
> Marcus Scipio Africanus 
> Propraetor of Lacus Magni 
> 
>
__________________________________________________ 
> Do You Yahoo!? 
> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo!
Auctions! 
> <a
href="http://auctions.yahoo.com">http://auctions.yahoo.com</a> 
> 
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Help wanted on best sources
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@yahoo.com.au>
Date:	Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:17:59 +1100 (EST)

Salvete omnes,

I was wondering if anyone out there would be able to
give me the names of any ancient authors which might
be of some help in researching Julian the Apostate?
Any help would be appreciated.

Also, in Procopius's Secret History, when he talks of
a pagan force being defeated along with their leader,
is that Julian the Apostate, or just another usurper,
as Procopius seems to suggest he died in a skirmish
elsewhere than against the Persians. Anyone know?

Thanks in advance,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo!
- It's My Yahoo! Get your own!


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Census (deadweight)
From:	mark zona <pitdog2002@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:56:57 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites,

I concur with Gaius Sentius on this issue of a census.
Although I am new, I too am a citizen of Rome, and
wish to speak on this issue.
Marcus Scipio states, "What good is 900 citizens, when
only 100 do anything?" Perhaps they are doing no good
for Nova Roma, but I do not believe they are causing
harm either.
A question that immediately springs to mind is that of
dead weight. What is meant by dead weight? Allegedly,
8 out of 9 of us here in Nova Roma are dead weight. Is
someone who spends no time on this list, but much time
at their lararium dead weight? How about someone who
has no interest in an official office of NR and is not
interested in assuming a leadership role but wants to
participate as a citizen of Rome, is that dead weight?
How about someone who subscribes to this list but does
not feel they have anything to contribute, is this
dead weight?
The assertian that 8 out of 9 of us here are dead
weight is disturbing because a greater number than 2
out of 9 subscribe to this list. Therefore, there is
an assertian that many of us on this list are dead
weight. One need only do the math.
I do understand that some of us want every Roman to be
a good Roman, contributing fully to the rebuilding of
Rome. But in our zeal to throw out the dead weight,
what if we throw out some that are good and
well-intentioned? Why would we want to do that?

And I hope that it is not done to me.

Valete,

Marcus Antonius Zeno

--- Craig Stevenson <gaiussentius@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I think legislation of this sort can only end in
> hurting Nova Roma. While there are those who are
> genuinely dead wood, there are those who will be
> labelled as such even when they are not. I can give
> certain examples of this: Lucius Sergius was
> unavailable for great periods of time during his
> tribunate, and yet he still wished and I beleive
> still
> wishes to be an active citizen. Then there is also
> Marcus Traianus, who was inactive for a very long
> time
> and eventually resurfaced and began posting to the
> main list. I feel that legislation like this can
> damage our society. Some people join Nova Roma for
> the
> love of being Roman, or their admiration for the
> Romans, without wanting to complicate things by
> being
> mired in some of the lists' beauraucratic matters.
> Are
> we to become truly non-human, and instead become a
> utilitarian society where people should only exist
> if
> they have importance? Even the Roman civilization,
> through republic and empire, kept its citizens and
> even occasionaly fed them (at state expense) even if
> they contributed nothing beyond children. What is to
> come next? Should we dispense with poor people just
> because they contribute nothing to society?
>
> I myself beleive that something should be done, but
> it
> is doubtful that anything can be done effectively.
> If
> we 'expel' every non-contributing citizen, then
> eventually we may have to stop any new members from
> joining...well, who knows, they may not contribute
> anything to our society, and we wouldn't want to run
> that sort of risk, now would we?;-)
>
> Valete bene omnes,
>
> Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
>
>
> --- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> <alexious@earthlink.net> wrote:
> <HR>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Ave, 
> 
> Legislation pertaining to this is being drafted
> currently and I hope 
> that the People of Nova Roma see the wisdom in
> passing
> this legislation. 
> 
> Very Respectfully, 
> 
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix 
> Consul of Nova Roma 
> 
> Shane Evans wrote: 
> 
> > Fellow Citizens. I think it is time
> we start cutting 
> > away the dead weight, and begin rebuilding Nova
> Roma 
> > into what it has the potential to become. 
> > 
> > What good is 900 citizens, when only 100 do
> anything? 
> > Why in my own provincia, I have six citizens
> listed, 
> > and absolutly no way of contacting them!
> Effective 
> > February 1, I will be conducting a Provincial
> Census. 
> > The goal of this is to see who is actually
> still
> a 
> > citizen, and how active they wish to be.
> Everyone 
> > will be given two months to comply with this
> census, 
> > and then I will request the the Censors remove
> all 
> > non-active citizens. I think it is time
> that persons 
> > such as myself (and other governors), members
> of
> the 
> > Senate, and the many elected magistrates,
> start 
> > working towards making Nova Roma more known,
> having 
> > more gatherings on a local level, and bringing
> in
> new 
> > blood to help us grow. Every citizen I
> have
> spoken to 
> > in my provincia supports this idea, and I
> now 
> > challenge other governors, and our Honorable
> Senate to 
> > follow this lead, and begin a campaign to
> become
> more 
> > proactive. And to those like Pompea
> Cornelia and 
> > Marcus Audens who are already working towards
> this 
> > same goal, myself and the citizens of my
> provincia 
> > want you to know that you are not alone. 
> > 
> > In Service to the Dream, 
> > Marcus Scipio Africanus 
> > Propraetor of Lacus Magni 
> > 
> >
>
__________________________________________________ 
> > Do You Yahoo!? 
> > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo!
> Auctions! 
> > <a
>
href="http://auctions.yahoo.com">http://auctions.yahoo.com</a> 
> > 
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>

> ADVERTISEMENT 
>

> [Image] 
> 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed] 
> 
> </tt>
>
> 
>
> 
>
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>
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>

__________________________________________________
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http://auctions.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Census
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:03:01 -0300 (ART)

Salvete Quirites

--- Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@yahoo.com> escreveu:
> Fellow Citizens. I think it is time we start
> cutting
> away the dead weight, and begin rebuilding Nova Roma
> into what it has the potential to become.
>
> What good is 900 citizens, when only 100 do
> anything?

MAIOR: Currently, we have 1192 names in the Album
Civium; around 500 are in the main-list (including
non-citizens), but less than 300 voted in the great
election of december, and even fewer voted in the last
run-off election.

> Why in my own provincia, I have six citizens listed,
> and absolutly no way of contacting them! Effective
> February 1, I will be conducting a Provincial
> Census.
> The goal of this is to see who is actually still a
> citizen, and how active they wish to be. Everyone
> will be given two months to comply with this census,
> and then I will request the the Censors remove all
> non-active citizens.

MAIOR: According to our Constitution, the only way
that a citizen can be expelled from Nova Roma, is by a
voting in one of the Comitiae; the Censores, solely,
cannot exclude someone from citizenship.

> I think it is time that
> persons
> such as myself (and other governors), members of the
> Senate, and the many elected magistrates, start
> working towards making Nova Roma more known, having
> more gatherings on a local level, and bringing in
new
> blood to help us grow. Every citizen I have spoken
to
> in my provincia supports this idea, and I now
> challenge other governors, and our Honorable Senate
to
> follow this lead, and begin a campaign to become
more proactive.

MAIOR: In my provincia, there are people that are
completely inactive for various years; but one of our
current rogators, T Horatius, was inactive for 2
years, and now became active again. My suggestion is
to only start to think in expel citizens who are
inactive for at least 5 years, or the ones that we
lost any possibility of contact (lack of adress,
invalid email).

> And to those like Pompea Cornelia and
> Marcus Audens who are already working towards this
> same goal, myself and the citizens of my provincia
> want you to know that you are not alone.
>
> In Service to the Dream,
> Marcus Scipio Africanus
> Propraetor of Lacus Magni

Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis
Propraetor Brasiliae

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! GeoCities
Tenha seu lugar na Web. Construa hoje mesmo sua home page no Yahoo! GeoCities. � f�cil e gr�tis!
http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Census
From:	"otto_von_sitter" <otto_von_sitter@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:35:11 -0000

While it looks like a lot of people don't like the idea of kicking
inactives out, I still like the idea of doing more to get more public
awarness. I have been trying to get more people interested in Nova
Roma, but only on a person to person basis. I haven't really had
time to do what I really want, like post that pamphlet in the files
folder in this list in the newpaper here. Or at the very least post
the main points of what Nova Roma is about as it is stated in the
pamphlet.

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

--- In novaroma@y..., M Arminius Maior <marminius@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites
>
> --- Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@y...> escreveu:
> > Fellow Citizens. I think it is time we start
> > cutting
> > away the dead weight, and begin rebuilding Nova Roma
> > into what it has the potential to become.
> >
> > What good is 900 citizens, when only 100 do
> > anything?
>
> MAIOR: Currently, we have 1192 names in the Album
> Civium; around 500 are in the main-list (including
> non-citizens), but less than 300 voted in the great
> election of december, and even fewer voted in the last
> run-off election.
>
> > Why in my own provincia, I have six citizens listed,
> > and absolutly no way of contacting them! Effective
> > February 1, I will be conducting a Provincial
> > Census.
> > The goal of this is to see who is actually still a
> > citizen, and how active they wish to be. Everyone
> > will be given two months to comply with this census,
> > and then I will request the the Censors remove all
> > non-active citizens.
>
> MAIOR: According to our Constitution, the only way
> that a citizen can be expelled from Nova Roma, is by a
> voting in one of the Comitiae; the Censores, solely,
> cannot exclude someone from citizenship.
>
> > I think it is time that
> > persons
> > such as myself (and other governors), members of the
> > Senate, and the many elected magistrates, start
> > working towards making Nova Roma more known, having
> > more gatherings on a local level, and bringing in
> new
> > blood to help us grow. Every citizen I have spoken
> to
> > in my provincia supports this idea, and I now
> > challenge other governors, and our Honorable Senate
> to
> > follow this lead, and begin a campaign to become
> more proactive.
>
> MAIOR: In my provincia, there are people that are
> completely inactive for various years; but one of our
> current rogators, T Horatius, was inactive for 2
> years, and now became active again. My suggestion is
> to only start to think in expel citizens who are
> inactive for at least 5 years, or the ones that we
> lost any possibility of contact (lack of adress,
> invalid email).
>
> > And to those like Pompea Cornelia and
> > Marcus Audens who are already working towards this
> > same goal, myself and the citizens of my provincia
> > want you to know that you are not alone.
> >
> > In Service to the Dream,
> > Marcus Scipio Africanus
> > Propraetor of Lacus Magni
>
> Valete
> Marcus Arminius Maior
> Tribunus Plebis
> Propraetor Brasiliae
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
_________________________
> Yahoo! GeoCities
> Tenha seu lugar na Web. Construa hoje mesmo sua home page no Yahoo!
GeoCities. � f�cil e gr�tis!
> http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Census
From:	labienus@texas.net
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:56:56 US/Central

Salvete omnes

> While it looks like a lot of people don't like the idea of kicking
> inactives out, I still like the idea of doing more to get more public
> awarness.

This seems to me to be a much better use of time. The reason behind a census
ought not to be throwing out "dead wood", but rather taking stock of Nova Roma
and ensuring that those cives who have a position of authority, i.e. the patres
matresque familias, are available and willing to fulfill the responsibilities
that such authority brings. Inactive patres et matres are, unfortunately, a
big problem. Cives who choose to remain quiet really aren't.

> I have been trying to get more people interested in Nova Roma, but
> only on a person to person basis.

Excellent! Do keep up the good work.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Help wanted on best sources
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:53:11 EST

In a message dated 1/28/02 5:21:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
gaiussentius@yahoo.com.au writes:

> I was wondering if anyone out there would be able to
> give me the names of any ancient authors which might
> be of some help in researching Julian the Apostate?
> Any help would be appreciated.

Salvete
Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus, The Christian theologian Gregory
Nazianzen, pagan writer Libanius of Antioch, Byzantine historian Zosimus.
He is indirectly mentioned in the church histories by both Socrates, and
Rufinus &
Sulpicus Severus.
>
> Also, in Procopius's Secret History, when he talks of
> a pagan force being defeated along with their leader,
> is that Julian the Apostate, or just another usurper,
> as Procopius seems to suggest he died in a skirmish
> elsewhere than against the Persians. Anyone know?
>

Your guess is as good as mine. I'll read "Secret History" in the next couple
of days and let you know.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Renuntiatio de Senatu
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:33:04 +0000 (GMT)

Gnaeus Salix Astur et Marcus Arminius Maior, tribuni plebis, Quiritibus
Novae Romae S.P.D.

Ex Officio Tribunorum Plebis

The Senate has finished its latest session, and the votes have been
tallied.

The following 16 Senatores cast votes. They are referred to below by
their initials, and are listed in alphabetical order by nomen:
Patricia Cassia (PC)
Marcus Cassius Julianus (MCJ)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (LCSF)
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo (PCS)
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus (LEC)
Quintus Fabius Maximus (QFM)
Caius Flavius Diocletianus (CFD)
Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonius (AICPM)
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus (DIPI)
Marcus Iunius Iulianus (MII)
Titus Labienus Fortunatus (TLF)
Gaius Marius Merullus (CMM)
Marcus Minucius Audens (MMA)
Marcus Octavius Germanicus (MOG)
Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus (LSAO)
Flavius Vedius Germanicus (FVG)

The following Senatores did not vote:
Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Gaius Tullius Triumphius Cicero

Senator Antonius Gryllus Graecus cast his votes after the end of voting
session, and so they are not included in the results

One item needs 2/3 majority vote to be approved. With 16 Senatores
voting, this 2/3 majority will be reached with at least 11 senatores
voting UTI ROGAS (yes).

"UTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item, "ANTIQUO" or "NEGAT"
is a vote against, and "ABSTINEO" is an abstention.

The items for consideration are as follows:

-----

ITEM I: Feriae Latinae
By the recommendation of Pontifex A. Gryllus Graecus, the date of the
Feriae Latinae for this year is set as April 28th. April 29th and 30th
shall be dies religiosi.

*PASSED* Unanimously. YES, 16; NO, 0; ABSTENTION, 0.

PC UTI ROGAS.
MCJ UTI ROGAS.
Pontiff Graecus has done a fine job in setting this date accurately.
LCSF UTI ROGAS.
PCS UTI ROGAS.
LEC UTI ROGAS.
QFM UTI ROGAS.
CFD UTI ROGAS.
AICPM UTI ROGAS.
DIPI UTI ROGAS.
MII UTI ROGAS.
TLF UTI ROGAS.
CMM UTI ROGAS.
I vote to set the date according to the recommendation
of A Gryllus Graecus Pontifex.
MMA UTI ROGAS.
MOG UTI ROGAS.
LSAO UTI ROGAS.
FVG UTI ROGAS.

-----

ITEM II: Budget
Approval of the budget for MMDCCLV as posted by Patricia Cassia in the
Aerarium Saturni, and modified by G. Popillius Laenas. (This
modification reserves one half of tax income for provincial use).
http://www.novaroma.org/aerarium_saturni/budget2755.html

*PASSED*. YES, 14; NO, 0; ABSTENTION, 2.

PC UTI ROGAS.
I also encourage this year's Consuls and Quaestores to do better than
we did last year, and to approve the budget before Janus opens the door
to 2003.
MCJ UTI ROGAS.
LCSF UTI ROGAS.
PCS UTI ROGAS.
LEC UTI ROGAS.
QFM UTI ROGAS.
CFD UTI ROGAS.
AICPM UTI ROGAS.
DIPI ABSTINEO.
I still have reservations about a specific amount of money being
reserved to the provinces in absence of specific projects. I think
money should be allocated by need to specific provinces, not a flat
rate to them all.
MII ABSTINEO.
TLF UTI ROGAS.
CMM UTI ROGAS.
MMA UTI ROGAS.
MOG UTI ROGAS.
Although the budget doesn't specify exactly how provincial money is to
be spent, I believe there is no point in attempting to determine that
now -- we don't yet know how much income there will be, or which
provinces it will come from. As required, we will be reserving half of
the tax income for provincial use; so this budget satisfies that law.
LSAO UTI ROGAS.
FVG UTI ROGAS.

-----

Item III: Century Reduction
That the proposed amendment to the Constitution, allowing for fewer
than 193 centuries, should be sent to the Comitia Centuriata for
voting. This item constitutes a preliminary approval and not a final
ratification.

*PASSED* YES, 12; NO, 4; ABSTENTION, 0.

PC UTI ROGAS.
MCJ UTI ROGAS.
The passage of this measure will help to streamline our comitiae
elections and voting. It should eliminate the need for runoff voting as
happened this last election.
LCSF UTI ROGAS.
PCS UTI ROGAS.
LEC ANTIQUO.
I plan on voting no to this if it is brought to the citizens. I do not
believe that it is wise to alter the voting system every time it is
inconvenient. I understand the wish for this proposal, but I believe
that we should just 'tough it out' until there are enough voting
citizens to make such gerrymandering unnecessary. This proposal
actually isn't necessary now, it's mostly the fault of uninterested
'citizen' who don't vote for whatever reason. Also, I am
wondering how such a change to the constitution could be abused in the
future. This is just the opinion of one stodgy Republican.
QFM ANTIQUO.
I feel it sets a dangerous precedent to change our voting system every
time we run into a problem. That wasn't the way ancient Rome operated,
and it is not the way we should react to every dilemma we face here.
CFD ANTIQUO.
AICPM UTI ROGAS.
DIPI UTI ROGAS.
Palladius: Uti Rogas. Since it has been clarified that this is not a
ratification presented out of order but merely a preliminary
recommendation, I vote in favor of this.
MII UTI ROGAS.
TLF UTI ROGAS.
CMM UTI ROGAS.
I recommend that such a proposal, calling for no change except a
numerical reduction in the centuries, to no fewer than 30, go before
the centuries. Amendments to the constitution and revision of
electoral process should be avoided, but so too should multiple run-off
elections. It is really to eliminate such elections that I support this
reduction.
MMA UTI ROGAS.
MOG UTI ROGAS. Hopefully this will reduce the number of "run-off"
elections.
LSAO UTI ROGAS.
FVG ANTIQUO.

-----

Item IV: Patres Patriae
In recognition of their service as the founders of the Republic, F.
Vedius Germanicus and M. Cassius Iulianus are each to be awarded the
honorific "Pater Patriae".

*PASSED*. YES, 14; NO, 0; ABSTENTION, 2.

PC UTI ROGAS.
MCJ ABSTINEO.
LCSF UTI ROGAS.
PCS UTI ROGAS.
LEC UTI ROGAS.
QFM UTI ROGAS.
And well deserved. Without these two's vision, none of this we do
today would have come forth.
CFD UTI ROGAS.
AICPM UTI ROGAS.
DIPI UTI ROGAS. This is an honor that is well deserved.
MII UTI ROGAS.
TLF UTI ROGAS.
CMM UTI ROGAS.
MMA UTI ROGAS.
MOG UTI ROGAS.
LSAO UTI ROGAS.
In recognition of their service as the founders of the Republic, F.
Vedius Germanicus and M. Cassius Iulianus are each to be awarded the
honorific "Pater Patriae".
FVG ABSTINEO.

-----

Item V: Senator Removal
The Senate issues its advice on the criteria and procedures for removal
of inactive Senators. The full text of this item is:

= = = = = = = = = = =
Senatus Consultum on the Removal of Inactive Senators.

I. Senatorship in Nova Roma shall be for life, so long as a Senator
maintains a minimum level of activity, as defined herein.

II. Level of Activity Required.

A. A Senator is required to cast votes in at least one third of the
sessions of the Senate during any calendar year. Should he or she fail
to do so, he or she may be removed at the option of the Censores.

B. Voting by proxy shall be considered acceptable for satisfying
these requirements, if and only if the right of proxy is granted
during the discussion period of the session for which proxy is granted.

III. Removal of a Senator.

A. The Censores are empowered to use their judgement when considering
the removal of a Senator who has failed to maintain the minimum level
of activity, and to either retain or remove that Senator at their
option. The Censores should consider whether a valid excuse for failing
to remain active has been offered.

B. The Senator to be removed has sixty days to appeal his or her
removal to any magistrate capable of convening the Senate.
A 2/3rds supermajority of the Senate, excluding the Censores, is
required to override the Censores and halt the removal.

C. An ex-Senator who has been removed may be later restored to the
Senate by the Censores.

IV. Exemptions.

A. Censores, Consuls, and Praetores are exempt during their year in
office, regardless of their participation level the previous year. Any
Senator appointed less than six months before the end of the preceding
year is exempt.

B. In recognition of their service to the Republic, any Senator who
has completed a full term as Consul or Censor may be removed from the
Senate if and only if he or she fails the test described in Section II
for four consecutive years.

C. Any Senator who has served in the Senate for ten years is
forever after exempt from removal for reason of inactivity.

V. This Senatus Consultum is the advice of the Senate to the
Censores. A law based upon this Senatus Consultum, if passed by the
Comitia, shall go into effect on the Kalends of Ianuarius MMDCCLVI auc
(01 January 2003).
= = = = = = = = = = =

*PASSED* YES, 11; NO, 4; ABSTENTION, 1.

PC UTI ROGAS.
I believe this is a necessary step forward.
MCJ UTI ROGAS.
The passage of this measure will help to ensure Senate participation
and effectiveness. I hope to adopt a similar measure in the Collegium
Pontificum shortly.
LCSF ABSTINEO.
PCS UTI ROGAS.
Uti Rogas: I am satisfied with the final amendments made to this
consultum. I do not feel that it comprehensively expresses all the
criteria in question in the assessment of Senatorial Conduct, but that
in itself doesn't make this consultum incorrect or undesirable, as it
reads. These additional ideas of which I speak can be addressed in
future at a more ameniable time.
LEC UTI ROGAS.
In addition to meeting standards for obtaining inclusion into the
Senate there ought to be objective standards for maintaining membership
therein. Relatively active citizenship and participation within Nova
Roma shouldn't be too much to ask, in addition to being a positive
example of the Virtutes Romani.
QFM ANTIQUO.
Not only is it against our mos maiorum, but I feel sets a dangerous
bias. You were rewarded for your work in the government by a seat in
the Curia house.
Now by removing the word "for life" you completely change the original
idea and replace it with a conditional one. And there are no safe
guards. What is current today might be changed tomorrow. Antiqvo
1,000 times, Antiqvo!
CFD UTI ROGAS.
AICPM UTI ROGAS.
DIPI ANTIQUO.
As you know, I have spoken forcefully against this. It is against the
Mos Maiorum and is a response to a non-existent problem. Its provisions
would affect one senator only, thus this has the appearance of
something that is meant to fix a problem that when looked at doesn't
exist. I oppose this on principle.
It is against the mos maiorum and is detrimental to the long term
welfare of the senate and the state.
Senators are supposed to be as free as possible from political
pressure, which is why it's a lifetime position. If we open the door to
"lifetime except under this circumstance" then we are setting a
precedent to add other conditions and yet others until before you know
it we will be politicians thinking of our careers and possible dangers
to ourselves, rather than statesmen looking at the long-term dangers to
Nova Roma and her long-term needs and goals.
MII ANTIQUO.
TLF UTI ROGAS.
I do not see that this proposal goes against the mos maiorum, as it
seems quite appropriate to our version of the ancient measure of
worth--i.e. service in place of wealth. It also establishes reasonable
guidelines and goes a long way toward forestalling future arguments
over whether the censores need an "enabling law" in order to use the
powers allotted to them by the constitution.
CMM UTI ROGAS.
I vote to adopt this policy. The minimum participation requirement is
very reasonable and fair, and it acts to narrow and define somewhat one
power of the censores.
MMA UTI ROGAS.
MOG UTI ROGAS.
LSAO UTI ROGAS.
FVG ANTIQUO.

-----

Item VI: Age Exemption
Exemption to the Lex Iunia de Magisterium Aetate for M. Scribonius
Curio Britannicus.

[A 2/3 supermajority is required to pass this measure.]

*NOT PASSED* YES, 2; NO, 14; ABSTENTION, 0.

PC UTI ROGAS.
MCJ ANTIQUO.
While M. Scribonius Curio Britannicus has so far done very well in the
positions he has filled, I must concur that this sort of exemption
should be done only in special circumstances. Hopefully Britannicus
will
consider other positions that he is able to fill legally now.
LCSF ANTIQUO.
PCS ANTIQUO.
With the greatest respect to Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus: After
carefully weighing his political activity, political participation
within the past 7-8 months, to wit, expression of personal position
with
respect to plebian items presented in the Forum, or other associate
lists, I am not convinced that it is appropriate for me as a Senator
and Praetor, who is keenly interested in the proper advocacy of plebian
interests, to grant an age exemption to one whom I do not see as
politically experienced or active enough for this important role. Not
at this time. This in no way negates my recognition and appreciation of
his service in other areas of Nova Roma, at which he has done well.
LEC ANTIQUO.
However, as Censor I will observe the will of the Senate in this case.
The law states that, "VI. An exemption to this law may be granted to a
person by the approval of *both censor(e)s* and a senatus consultum
approved by a two thirds majority vote." If the Senate grants this
petition a 2/3 majority I will not block it.
QFM ANTIQUO.
I much as I like Scribonius Curio we have age limits due to the fact
that a young man has little life experience. I do believe as
Scribonius Curio continues to work in Rome his seasoning will grow, and
he will make a fine magistrate one day. Just not yet.
I have heard the arguments pro, and I blame the internet. Youth of
today want things now, spoiled by the internet's "instant access"
There is no instant access in Nova Roma, except through hard work with
dignatis and that is the way it should stay.
CFD ANTIQUO.
AICPM ANTIQUO.
DIPI ANTIQUO.
Exceptions to this law should be rare and be made only for
extraordinary individuals who stand out above their peers in their age
group. While M. Scribonius has served ably he does not stand out above
his peers to the extent that he should be jumped ahead of them.
MII UTI ROGAS.
TLF ANTIQUO.
With reluctance, for the same reason as that stated by D Iunius.
CMM ANTIQUO.
I vote against exempting M. Scribonius Curio Britannicus from Lex Iunia
de Magistratuum Aetate.
Exemption should be granted only rarely and where an urgent, convincing
case is made for it.
MMA ANTIQUO.
The Senate has passed the Age Law for good reason, as we have seen in
the past. While the exemption rule is a way around the law for those
candidates below the age requirement for the position requested, it is
my belief that such an exemption must be earned by special
consideration by exceptional effort, or some other indication that the
applicant is indeed special in some way that sets his or her age
limitations in a secondary consideration. I have neither seen nor read
of any such special considerations for this applicant.
MOG UTI ROGAS.
LSAO ANTIQUO.
Reluctantly. Marcus Scribonius has evidently served Nova Roma well as a
Rogator. However, the position of Tribune can be a powerful and
influential one. I would prefer that he first gain the additional years
required by the law, and therefore I cannot support this exemption.
FVG ANTIQUO.

Dabam a.d. V Kal. Feb. MMDCCLV a.V.C.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Lictor Curiatus.

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Subject:	[novaroma] "dead weight"
From:	"Caius Cornelius Puteanus" <puteanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 22:06:29 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

I just wanted to note that it is true that Illustrous Fortunatus' view is
very valuable. There is not a single nation in the world that declares his
citizens outlaws for not voting or never placing a public statement. It is
very important that we all, and I mean all, do our best to contact those
within our familia that have failed to manifest themselves for a certain
period of time. They may have specific reasons, which are unknown to us and
can only be heard when we talk to them privately.

But there is one important remark to all this, being that the inactive cives
may not become a handicap for those who are active. The recently approved
reform of the voting process is a big step in the right direction. The
senatus itself is being reformed in such a way as we have read. I have
utmost confidence in both our Honored Consules that the legislation they
will propose to the populus romanus will be both wise and moderate.

A census could also mean bringing the activities in a graphic or a global
picture in order to organize ourselves better, and does not necessarily have
to mean the removal of "dead weight".

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Cornelius Puteanus
www.geocities.com/puteanus
www.geocities.com/germania_inferior

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] "dead weight"
From:	Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:32:54 -0800 (PST)

I appologize fellow citizens for not better clarifying
what I consider dead weight. In my provincia, I have
99 citizens. Of these, six citizens have no email, or
any other means of contact listed. In addition, out
of the first 20 census letters I sent out, 2 have
already come back invalid email addresses. These are
the citizens I refer to as dead weight.

Having served a great part of my life in the military,
I understand things arize that take us away from our
normal lives for a given ammount of time. But I
strongly think that if there is no method of
contacting a citizen, it is safe to assume they have
moved on in life. I do however think that a grace
period should be given in the event of a citizen who
had an email on file with the censors and then had it
suddenly come up invalid.

M. Scipio Africanus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] "dead weight"
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:50:35 -0800

Ave,

This conversation is a bit premature...as my staff and I are currently revising a Census lex that will be proposed to the Senate and People around April of this year.

However, the Pater/Mater registration will be proposed to the People in February to ratify as a lex. I am confident that by the end of this year we will have made substantial progress in an effort to get our paters/maters more involved in NR. I am also confident that we will have begun the process of contact our citizens (via various modes of communication) to see who are still in NR (regardless if they are active or just observing) and who have totally forgotten about NR.

The issue about dead wood should not be about removing inactive citizens. But getting citizens who might have forgotten about NR back into the fold via a proactive effort. If they decide that they do not want to be apart of NR, that is their decision. However, during my tenure as Censor there were many people I have contacted who forgot they were members of NR or even worse do not remember they signed up to NR. This needs to be fixed.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul
----- Original Message -----
From: Shane Evans
To: novaroma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] "dead weight"

I appologize fellow citizens for not better clarifying
what I consider dead weight. In my provincia, I have
99 citizens. Of these, six citizens have no email, or
any other means of contact listed. In addition, out
of the first 20 census letters I sent out, 2 have
already come back invalid email addresses. These are
the citizens I refer to as dead weight.

Having served a great part of my life in the military,
I understand things arize that take us away from our
normal lives for a given ammount of time. But I
strongly think that if there is no method of
contacting a citizen, it is safe to assume they have
moved on in life. I do however think that a grace
period should be given in the event of a citizen who
had an email on file with the censors and then had it
suddenly come up invalid.

M. Scipio Africanus

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