Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Agenda item - Title needed - Macellum law
From:	"germanicus_nr" <germanicus@novaroma.org>
Date:	Thu, 07 Feb 2002 04:35:45 -0000

Salvete,

I see only one problem with this proposal. (The other portions seem
merely to be changes in capitalization, rather than anything
substantive.)

--- In novaroma@y..., Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@e...>
wrote:
>
> My second item that I would bring to a vote to both the Senate and
> People of Nova Roma would be a constitutional change. This means
that
> it will need to get 2/3 approval from the Senate of Nova Roma as
well
> pass the Comitia Centuriata.

Just as a procedural note, I trust it will be passed by the Comitia
Centuriata _before_ being brought to a vote in the Senate. There
seems to be some confusion about this.

>
> A new section will be added under the job description of the Curule
> Aediles:

<snip>

> 5. To maintain the Macellum and the Ordo Equaestor. This will
include
> supervising all aspects of the Macellum. In addition to this, it
is the
> responsibility of the Curule Aediles to report any changes of the
Ordo
> Equaestor to the Censors.

Do you not think it would be prudent to make some mention of the role
of the Curator Araneum? After all, the Macellum is merely a section
of the website. This passage, as written, leaves the relationship
between the Curule Aediles and the Curator Araneum completely
ambiguous.

Indeed, the term "Macellum" is nowhere even defined, here or
elsewhere (the only thing close is "reasonable support for their
enterprises", which expectation the Macellum on the website is
intended to fulfill, but it is by no means intended to be the only
means of doing so), and I am unsure it is wise to limit ourselves by
doing so.

Such a change to the Constitution, I think, needs to be both more
specific and more broad in its wording. Specific, in that terms such
as Macellum need to be defined (rather than merely relying on "well
we know what it means", since what it means today may very well
change tomorrow). Broad-based, in that the nature of such things is
to change; is the Macellum always to be part of the "main" website?
Is it always to be Internet-based? What provisions are there for real-
world commerce (such as when members of the Ordo Equester hauk their
wares at face-to-face events).

I submit this item needs something of a rewrite.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Pater Patriae

Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN [Religio Romana]: ante diem VII Idus Februarias (February 7th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@cris.inesc.pt>
Date:	Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:51:09 -0000

ANTONIVS GRYLLVS GRAECVS PONTIFEX OMNIBVS QVIRITIBVS SALVTEM

Today is a "dies nefastus" (N), a day when legal action cannot take place.

Today (1) is the beginning of Spring according to the agricultural calendar.
It is around this time that Favonius (west wind, equated to the Greek
Zephyrus [Aulus Gellius, Noctes Atticae, II.22]) starts to blow, and the
second phase of the agricultural year starts [Varro, De Re Rustica, 1.28].

Di vos incolumes custodiant



(1) The posting for the Nones on February 5th erroneously announced the
beginning of spring. I humbly beg your pardon for the mistake.

Subject:	[novaroma] face 2 face meeting
From:	"Caius Cornelius Puteanus" <puteanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:38:43 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

Yesterday evening, my wife Claudia and I had the pleasure to meet Illustrous
Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus face to face in Germania Inferior. Alex was
in Brussels for business, and of course it was an opportunity we could not
let pass. We have discussed many things Roman over a drink and dinner. We
have discussed some major political items in Nova Roma, the situation in
Pannonia (of which Alex is Propraetor), the Germania Inferior project,
interests in Roman issues from the imperial history, the works of Gibbon,
Byzantine history, numismatics (which is a passion we share both) and many
more.

I want to thank Alexander publicly for a very enriching evening, and want to
encourage all Nova Romans to have face 2 face meetings whenever they can.
You can put things in perspective than, and our nation becomes much more
real than it is via email and the internet.

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Cornelius Puteanus
www.geocities.com/puteanus
www.geocities.com/germania_inferior


_________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] I believe I need a glossary
From:	C Williams <rio1@riorondo.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:47:20 -0600

Is there somewhere I can be referred to, in order to better understand
both the terms and cultural concepts of pater/materfamilias, gens,
gentes, gentiles etc.?

I am barely familiar with these terms that are being discussed regarding
the census, and I am unsure of what they mean in regards to Roman
Culture at present. (I'm merely a humble barbarian a long ways from Rome).

--rio

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] I believe I need a glossary
From:	labienus@texas.net
Date:	Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:20:40 US/Central

Salve Rio

> Is there somewhere I can be referred to, in order to better understand
> both the terms and cultural concepts of pater/materfamilias, gens,
> gentes, gentiles etc.?

The only references I know that treat the subject in any detail are either
expensive or somewhat involved, or both. Smith's Dictionary of Greek and Roman
Antiquities is mostly online at:
http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/S
MIGRA*/home*.html
(a very long URL, be sure to use the whole thing)

While Smith's dictionary is a little out of date in many places and somewhat
difficult to read due to an assumption of prior knowledge on the part of some
of its writers, it does contain a wealth of good information. And, the price
can't be beaten.

The Oxford Classical Dictionary also has some good information in it, and
should be available from most libraries. Smith's and the OCD are the only two
that come leaping to mind. If I have time (doubtful) tonight, I'll try to give
you a better list. Q Fabius can probably give you a more comprehensive
bibliography than I can, though.

To give you a starting point, I'll gloss a few of the main terms. Note that
I'm being rather eliptical in these definitions, and some of the points I make
are not necessarily as uncontroversial as they might seem. History, after all,
is primarily an extended debate over the meaning of fragmentary evidence.

Gens (pl. Gentes) - a clan, comprised of a collection of families that shared
the same nomen. Gaius Claudius and Titus Claudius Maxentius would both be from
Gens Claudia, though not necessarily the same family.

Gentilis (pl. Gentiles) - a member of a gens.

Familia (pl. Familiae) - an extended family, including the paterfamilias' wife
and children, along with his male children's wives and children, and so on. It
also included any slaves owned by the familia's members. Familiae were
differentiated from each other by cognomina. Therefore, C Claudius and T
Claudius Maxentius very well might be from different familiae (Familia Claudia
and Familia Claudia Maxentia). In Nova Roma, familiae have no legal existence,
but some gentes do include them.

Pater Familias (pl. Patres Familias) - the eldest male within a given familia.
The paterfamilias owned all of the property of the familia and possessed the
power of life and death over members of his family who were below the age of
majority (14 yrs old). In Nova Roma, the paterfamilias (fem. materfamilias) is
the leader of a gens, as opposed to a familia, and his only legally recognized
powers are to decide who enters his gens and who shall be expelled from it.

Patria Potestas - the power held by the paterfamilias. It was the expression
of his authority over all members of his familia and, to a lesser degree, freed
slaves that used to belong to his familia and the descendants of such freed
slaves. The article on patria potestas in Smith's Dictionary is here:
http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/S
MIGRA*/Patria_Potestas.html
(watch for wrap, and be ready for some relatively dense reading.)
Currently, the subject of patria potestas is a matter of some debate in Nova
Roma.

> I am barely familiar with these terms that are being discussed regarding
> the census, and I am unsure of what they mean in regards to Roman
> Culture at present. (I'm merely a humble barbarian a long ways from Rome).

I hope my brief explanation helps.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] I believe I need a glossary
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:37:48 -0500 (EST)

Senator Fortunatus;

Thank you for the well - worded explanations. I too have been somewhat
confused by these words particularly when used in explanations of
further situations by itizens who sometimes forget that all do not have
thier ability with latin, and some of the less-often understood usages
by students such as myself.

Again my thanks and appreciation;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	[novaroma] Lex Labiena de Intercessione - First Draft
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:32:18 +0000 (GMT)

Tribuni Plebis Gnaeus Salix Astur et Marcus Arminius Maior Quiritibus
S.P.D.

Ex Officio Tribunorum Plebis.

This is the first draft of a lex that will be proposed to the Comitia
Plebis Tributa at the same time as the votation for new Tribuni and
Aedilis begins. I am posting it right now to recieve some feedback from
you citizens. This draft was initially prepared by the ex-tribunus (and
current praetor) T. Labienus Fortunatus, and thus we have thought it
should bear his name.

The schedule for this proposal will be:

11 Feb. -> Contio begins
16 Feb. -> Voting starts
24 Feb. -> Voting ends

------------------------------------------------------------------

I. Pursuant to fulfill what is ruled in Paragraph IV.A.7.a.3 of the
Constitution, this lex is enacted to define the process by which
tribuni plebis may use their power of intercessio.

II. A tribunus plebis may use intercessio by making an official
announcement to at least one of Nova Roma’s main communications fora
(as defined by the Constitution) within 72 hours of the announcement of
the item or action to be vetoed. The items and actions which tribuni
plebis may use intercessio against are defined in paragraph IV.A.7.a.1
of the Constitution.

III. The issuance of intercessio shall place the item or action on
hold, preventing it from being in any way effective, for 72 hours from
the time at which the intercessio is announced.

IV. During this 72 hour period, other tribuni plebis may officially
announce their agreement or disagreement with the particular use of
intercessio.
IV.A. Such announcements shall be made to at least one of Nova
Roma’s main communications fora, and shall be made to the forum in
which the original announcement of intercessio occurred.
IV.B. A tribunus plebis who chooses not to state his agreement or
disagreement with the use of intercessio shall be assumed to have
abstained, and his abstention shall be counted neither for nor against
the use of intercessio.
IV.C. The initial use of intercessio shall be assumed to be a
statement of agreement with itself. Therefore, the tribunus plebis who
initially issued the intercessio in question need not state his
agreement with his own action.

V. Should more tribuni plebis agree than disagree with the use of
intercessio in question, it shall stand, and the action which
was vetoed shall be void.
Otherwise, the action which was vetoed shall be allowed to take
effect starting immediately at the end of the period allotted for
tribuni plebis to state their agreement or disagreement.



=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] My Return
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:39:10 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I am returned, it appears, to Nova Roma by the efforts of my particular
friends, Senator, Strabo and both Censors. I was presumed "unsubbed"
from the list and lost to Nova Roma several days ago by some undetected
mischief caused by the recent virus which has attacked Nova Roma.
Through the efforts of those mentioned above, I have been restored to
most of the lists where I was before, and things move along more
normally now. My particular thanks to those who have assisted me in
this; unfortunately we do not know the complete reason for my deletion,
but the restoration seems to be nearly complete.

As you will see from my new Web-name above, I am communicating from a
different base now, even though my previous web-names:

jmath669642reng@webtv.net;

and

adjutant42@webtv.net

still recieve mesages from sources outside of Nova Roma affiliates.
This factor is perhaps the most puzzling of the whole problem. At any
rate I am pleased to have been returned with a minimum of delay. My
special thanks to Senator Strabo who first detected my "involuntary
unsubbing" and notfied the others. Thanks Senator, a big buss, from
"Big Brother"--I owe ya one!!!! (Actually, probably more than one
(Grin!!!!!!!!).

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	[novaroma] message to the senate failed.
From:	"luciuspompeius" <danielovi@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Feb 2002 23:47:15 -0000

Salvete omnes.
I just sent a message to the senate, but it returned failed. So I
rewrite it again and post it here. Here it is :


Lucius Pompeius Octavianus omnibus senatoribus S.P.D.

I write this message because after listening to some advices I
received from
excellent people and magistrates of Nova Roma I decided to change my
mind, and
wish to continue my propraetorship of provincia Argentina. Their
words are
really worthy to me and helped me very much at these difficult times.
I was
feeling down when I posted at the main list, but thanks to them, they
made me
think another way.

Secondly, I wish to ask for an extension for provincia Argentina of
the
deadline for the taxes. This is due to the uncertain and unstable
times we are
going through. Besides, it would be prohibited for us to send money
abroad for
three months and would be restricted afterwards (to be confirmed).
And the
currency exchange going upwards and unstable.

Valete bene et habeatis fortunam optimam


Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus