| Subject: |
[novaroma] Tribal Communication |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> |
| Date: |
13 Feb 2002 17:06:55 -0200 |
|
Salvete,
reading Q. Cicero's campaingning manual. I discovered that even in the
1st century BC, tribal life was still important, since he insisted on
the intra-tribal communication.
Therefore I decided to establish a mailing-list for my tribe, you can
subscribe at the following address:
http://qt1.iq.usp.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/stellatina
If other tribes are interrested in opening a ml on my computer please
contact me.
Vale,
Manius Villius Limitanus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Language Law |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> |
| Date: |
13 Feb 2002 18:22:41 -0200 |
|
Em Qua, 2002-02-13 às 02:46, MarcusAudens@webtv.net escreveu:
> Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> In pursuing a continuing discussion regarding the subject, I have tried
> to maintain an impersonal and truthful basis for my arguments. It now
> appears that there has been some countering argments that are not based
> in fact, which a simple question to one of our elected Magistrates would
> have immediately revealed.
>
> Since my reponsibility is, as I see it, to pursue such questions as I
> may have significant comments for, and present you with (hopefully)
> facts from which you can make a determination.
> It is no part of my responsiblity, again as I see it, to necessarily win
> an argument with any individual, or to use false information in my
> efforts.
>
> Additionally, while I am not a professional historian, nor do I have any
> credentials in this area outside of being a qualified K-12 history
> educator and an interested student, -- in my 45 years of pursuing
> history relating to the United States, England, and to a lesser degree
> Europe (I have no language skills out side of English) I have never run
> across any record of any American State establishing a separate
> government because the United States refused to recognize the use of a
> language other than English. Such a statemet is particularly
> interesting since the U.S. currently and has for some time, prints
> government documents in various languages, for the use of citizens who
> have not yet become proficient in English, and many clerks, and working
> people here in the U.S. can hardly be understood, because they pursue
> thier native language so freely that they never properly learn the use
> of English in order to enable their nieghbors and friends to understand
> them clearly. Before I give any crecedence to such a surprising
> accusation, I would need a reference (referring to the incident), date,
> country (s) involved, and where / when such a decision has been
> recorded. My reason for this need is while strange things have happened
> in this country, as in other countries in the past, I find as a
> historian that an attempt to take an action out of it's time period and
> apply it to modern day standards is not only inaccurate, but foolish as
> well. Something that any educated man or woman should realize,
> particularly one who is identifed as an educator. Additionally. if such
> an action were taken by the United States, the decision will be recorded
> somewhere in our national archives which are open to all U.S. Citizens
>
Sorry looked a lot for it, could not find it. For me it is a Junior High
School lembrance, revived in several discussions with friends. It could
be a urban legend.
The story: After the liberation of spanish America by Bolivar et al.,
a congress/meeting was held in order to decide the political future of
the ex-colonies. The preferred solution was joining the USA.
But one of the exigences of the USA was the adoption of english as
official language which was refused and ended up in the creation of
several south-american nations. I would be very glad to find out what is
true about it.
Thanks,
Manius Villius Limitanus
|
| Subject: |
RE: Re: [novaroma] Re: NOVA ROMA - Annual memberships now d |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@goldenfuture.net> |
| Date: |
Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:41:22 -0500 |
|
> -----Original Message-----
> From: labienus@texas.net [mailto:labienus@texas.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:57 AM
> To: novaroma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Re: [novaroma] Re: NOVA ROMA - Annual memberships now d
>
>
> Salvete Tiberi Annaee omnesque
>
> > I am very grateful to you, for making this clear.
>
> You are quite welcome.
>
> > I am translating the leges into German since almost 2 years now
> and I have
> > always been wondering about this difference between 'shall' and
> 'will'. In my
> > English studies at the university, everybody wants you to make
> the difference
> > and therefore I was never quite sure.
>
> The uses of "shall" and "will" are different depending on which
> form of English
> one is using. In the US, "shall" is almost never used in
> everyday speech, and
> is often seen as a bit pompous. Take a look at the usage note at
> http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=shall for more information.
> And, do note
> that many of the authors of Nova Roma's laws most likely were not
> aware of such
> grammatical technicalities.
>
> > It now seems, that parts of the senatus consultum have not been
> implemented
> > and therefore the magistrates of NR should consider a delay in
> the deadline
> > of the taxpayment, until these problems are sorted out.
>
> Actually, I was only commenting on the interpretation of "shall",
> and not on
> the text of the senatusconsultum. The full text in question is:
>
> "IV. The Senate shall, with the aid and assistance of the local
> governors,
> assign Publicani (sing. Publican) to assist with the efficient and cost-
> effective collection of taxes, where it deems appropriate."
>
> Take note of the last clause of that sentence: "where it deems
> appropriate."
> This gives the Senate the freedom to exercise its discretion in
> appointing
> Publicani, including the ability not to appoint any Publicani at all.
> Therefore, while Cornelius Consul's stated reason for his
> conclusion that the
> Senate is free not to appoint Publicani was erroneous, the
> conclusion itself is
> still reasonably correct.
>
> That said, the Senate will almost certainly vote upon an
> extension of the tax
> deadline fairly soon. I, for one, will be voting in favor of it.
>
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
AW: [novaroma] Taxes et Provinciae |
| From: |
<3s@hsk-net.de> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 01:24:15 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salvete, Quirites,
salve, Gn. Popilli Quaestor.
I offered the same service to the citizens in Germania. I´ll collect the taxes there on my bank account and give them to the treasury via PayPal, when the deadline is over.
This is a reasonable and quite easy way, and I recommend this to all governors who have a PayPal account.
Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Censor, Senator
Propraetor Germaniae
-- Original Nachricht--
Von: g_popillius_laenas <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
An: novaroma@yahoogroups.com
Senden: 13.02.2002
Betreff: [novaroma] Taxes et Provinciae
Salvete Omnes,
A suggestion has been made that Provincial Governors might be able to
help with tax collection outside the USA. Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
has offered to collect taxes in her Province of Canada and to remit
them in a lump sum. Such a system would certainly save bank and
other fees for cives who cannot or do not wish to use Paypal.
If other Governors are willing and able to assist in this way, I
suggest they notify their cives. I also suggest civies who wish to
pay the tax, but who cannot find a reasonable way to do so, contact
their Governor and see if any help is available.
Not all Governors may be equipped to handle such a transaction and
each is free to decide his or her level of participation. Also,
cives should remember that the Governors have not been bonded. The
cost is simply out of line with regard to the total amount of taxes
expected to be collected (Frankly, there will be plenty of room in
the temple to store the expected tax "haul"). Although the
possibility of a defalcation by such noble magistrates over such
small amounts is, in my opinion, very remote, the issue has been
raised before.
Valete
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Consular Quaestor
payments@novaroma.org
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Candidates Without a Plan |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:41:01 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve Praetor,
> I know if I were voting I would be very interested in knowing if any
> of the candidates for Tribune are clients of another citizen, or
> particularily, another magistrate....
>
> But failure to disclose
> pertinent facts, which could even be covertly disclosed after the
> election, will, as the archives attest, disillusion people, and
> likely do little for a candidates future political career.
An excellent point.
A Tribune should be concerned, first and foremost, with defending the
Constitution and the rights of the citizens. His ability to do so is
severely compromised when he is taking orders from another magistrate
in secret.
I find it rather disturbing that none of the candidates for Tribune
have yet answered your challenge and revealed their affiliations.
I ask them directly: Candidates for Tribune, do you consider
yourselves "clients" of any citizen, magistrate or otherwise?
Have you pledged your loyalty to any magistrate?
The Plebeian Citizens have a right to know who their tribunes
are really working for.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] About languages in NovaRoma |
| From: |
"Martins-Esteves" <esteves@compuland.com.br> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 05:52:13 -0300 |
|
Salve G. Noviodune
Salvete Omnes
I fully agree with the first part of your message. And I would like to remind our native english speaking cives who are fond of sarcasm and verbal jokes, or the ones who like to win a dispute by means of verborrhage, that the cives who don't speak English as a first language very often have their ideas harmed by not being able to express them accurately. Don't forget the power you have in your hands (actually on the tip of your fingers) in terms of imposing/proposing your ideas and values: during the time I take to write a message, you could possibly write five of them. THAT is intimidating for me!
I suggest that our Curatrix sermonis should include your considerations (MUTUAL RESPECT ON THE MAINLIST) in the guidelines for the list users.
Valete!
Titus Horatius Atticus
Civis Novae Romae in Provincia Brasilia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] cives domestici |
| From: |
"Martins-Esteves" <esteves@compuland.com.br> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:21:07 -0300 |
|
Salvete Cives
Back from the Carnival festivities, I took some time to read all the messages in the period. I was surprised by the deadline for tax payment, but much more by this passage, quoted from a message from L. Cornelius Sulla, consul.
<<The Senatus Consultum has been implmented. It is your choice to decide
if you will comply with it or not too. The choice is yours. Many of
our citizens, both international and domestic have already paid. I am
certain that many more will continue to pay and help Nova Roma gain the
financial stability She deserves.>>
I assume that the domestic citizens refered are the ones from the USA, am I right? Is this an special expression used by Paypal or what?
Am I the only one to see the absurdity in the terminology?
Valete
Titus Horatius Atticus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] cives domestici |
| From: |
"Martins-Esteves" <esteves@compuland.com.br> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:26:21 -0300 |
|
Sorry, here is the whole message for reference
Vale
Atticus
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@earthlink.net>
Para: novaroma@yahoogroups.com <novaroma@yahoogroups.com>; G. Noviodunus Ferriculus <Gaius.Noviodunus@iseli.org>
Data: Terça-feira, 12 de Fevereiro de 2002 12:29
Assunto: Re: [novaroma] Re: NOVA ROMA - Annual memberships now due
"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" wrote:
> Salve L. Corneli Sulla Consul,
> Salvete Quirites
Avete Omnes,
>
>
> On 2/12/02 1:43 AM, L. Cornelius Sulla wrote:
>
> >>I simply don't understand why this decision has been taken so fast.
> >>People from outside USA have A LOT of problems with paying this fee.
>
> >>
> >
> > Because Nova Roma is growing and her expenses are also increasing.
> This has
> > been discussed many many times in the past. I suggest you go into
> the
> > archieves and read those debates
>
> I know these issues but I was not referring to them. I was referring
> to
> the over-rushed implementation of this lex, leaving not even 30 days
> to pay.
Sulla: I am certainly glad that you know those issues. Your first post
did not seem to grasp that. I still disagree with your assumption that
this was too fast. First Nova Roma has been in existence for 4 years
without having a tax. Secondly, According to the Tabularium the Senatus
Consultum was passed in July. From July to now thats what...8-9
months? The People of Nova Roma have known about this tax for 8-9
months. I do not think that is rushing things at all. Is it too much
to ask that our citizens be a bit proactive? I do not think so.
>
>
> >>1. There are a some scaring reports about abuses at Penpal. So I
> will
> >>understand anyone refusing to pay through this service
> >
> > There are? I have not seen, heard nor experience any such abuse at
> all. I
> > have used paypal extensively for purchases of a wide variety of
> products on
> > the Internet. I have used paypal at least 60 times and my fiancee,
> Prima
> > Cornelia Pulchra has used paypal at least 200+ times with no
> negative
> > results.
>
> Sure. I don't contest everything can go well. But I wouldn't like to
> be
> hit by bad luck. Since you are not aware of the abuses, check out this
>
> website. It is NOT hoax: http://www.paypalwarning.com/
>
Sulla: Thank you for the info. Yes I am not surprised I see all the
alternatives they are sponsering to that do the exact same thing. There
are sites similar to this about Earthlink, AOL, Ebay, you name it there
is a site. You will always have some customers who are not satisfied.
>
> >>2. If paying through Penpal, you must know that international
> customers
> >>have first to be confirmed, that means a delay of at least 2 month
> >
> > That is not true either. We have already received a number of
> international
> > payments.
>
> Sure, people already having an account can pay directly. But those not
>
> having an
> account yet will need to 1) register 2) pay a small amount to Paypal
> 3)
> wait for
> their Credit Card Statement to come in by snail mail (usually after
> one
> month)
> 4) Make their first payment - the small amount payed in #2 will be
> payed
> back
>
Sulla: Once again, this goes back to my first comment. Citizens of
Nova Roma have known taxes were going to be paid by the end of February.
>
> >>3. International money orders are not a solution either, since the
> >>banking taxes raise to 15 EUR for sending 13 EUR. Are you kidding?
> >
> > This is why I prefered to raise the tax initially beyond the $12.00
> however,
> > Consul Flavius Vedius decided on the lower amount. The Senate
> agreed with
> > him.
>
> What about this:
>
> IV. The Senate shall, with the aid and assistance of the local
> governors, assign Publicani (sing. Publican) to assist with the
> efficient and cost-effective collection of taxes, where it deems
> appropriate.
>
> I have not heard of a Publican in my Provincia and I would think this
> to
> be a good solution.
>
Sulla: Publicani are not a viable solution at this time due to the
costs of insuring/bonding (this was also done via a vote in December),
then there is the cost for their setup (mailboxes, bank accts, etc) It
was/is not cost effective. Also, we have tried to set up a contact
point in Europe (under Titus Octavius Pius) however even those costs in
setup would undercut any amount of tax that would have been collected.
And, when some of our International citizens were able to pay via paypal
it was recommended that paypal would be the main focal point of tax
collection.
>
> >>In the name of all citizens living outside the USA, I request:
> >>
> >>1. The deadline to be delayed by at least 2 months, that is April 30
> OR
> >>as long item #2 below is not resolved.
> >>
> >
> > I am presenting an agenda item to the Senate to delay the deadline
> for a
> > month.
> >
> >
> >>2. An acceptable solution to be found for international payments.
> >>
> >
> > This is something I intend to look into during my tenure as Consul.
> > However, I should stress that the problems with paypal have been on
> the
> > whole minimal. Many citizens outside of the US have been able to
> process
> > their payments successfully without any trouble at all.
>
> I think, as Consul you should take care that the Senatvs Consvlta be
> applied correctly. The Senatus Consultus about taxation has 4 points
> 1. What it is about
> 2. Amount of Tax
> 3. Deadline of paying tax
> 4. Publicani
>
All points execpt for number 4 have been addressed. Number 4 will not
be implemented anytime soon given the costs associated with it.
>
> As much as I can see, this Senatus consultus has only been partially
> implemented, and that's why I think you should exceptionally delay the
>
> payment UNTIL the WHOLE SenatusConsultus is implemented.
>
The Senatus Consultum has been implmented. It is your choice to decide
if you will comply with it or not too. The choice is yours. Many of
our citizens, both international and domestic have already paid. I am
certain that many more will continue to pay and help Nova Roma gain the
financial stability She deserves.
Very Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma
>
> Vale bene
>
> --
> Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
> Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
> Friburgii Helvetiorum
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: to quaestors |
| From: |
"gaiuscoriolanus" <coriolanus@centrum.sk> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:23:52 -0000 |
|
Salve Tite Octavii
well I try to ask some of my friends abroad to send the money but it
seems that I will not be able to do until deadline. If senate will
not adjust it I'll become one of "capite censi".
Vale,
Gaius Coriolanus
--- In novaroma@y..., Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> gaiuscoriolanus wrote:
> > Paypal service is not available in eastern Europe, does that mean
> > that I haven't chance to pay?
>
> Salve, Gai Marci Coriolane.
>
> First, regarding PayPal, I believe they will accept customers from
any
> countries, as long as they have a credit/debit card to register with
> them. I do, however, realise that not all european citizens neither
> possess nor desire a credit/debit card, and for those, PayPal is
not an
> alternative.
>
> Second, not being able to use PayPal is an obstacle, albeit a major
one.
> It does not completely prevent you from paying taxes, though. A
money
> order in US dollars, or (not safe nor recommended) sending actual
cash,
> to Gaius Popillius Laenas as consular quaestor is also a
possibility.
>
> I am the first one to admit that there is no really good solution
for us
> who live in countries where credit cards and money transfers are
less
> common. This is a problem, and one for which we have no solution
ready
> at hand.
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> --
>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] cives domestici |
| From: |
MarcusAudens@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:31:32 -0500 (EST) |
|
Master Titus Horatius Atticus;
No, Master Atticus, you are not the only one to see the absurdity of the
message from the Junior Consul. The passage to which you refer, was a
response from our Junior Consul to a gentleman who was asking a civil
question of concern to him. The response from a Senior Magistrate, was
as from a mounted Cossack with a whip.
It is understood that the deadline for tax payment is very short. Our
Honored Senior Consul has explained the short period in much gentler and
easier terminology, and there is a item on the Senate Agenda to extend
the payment period, to which myself and several others agree.
It is understood by the Honored Senior Consul and his assigned Quaestor,
that not all of the problems of the tax gathering system have been
eliminated, or perhaps even addressed. It is truly unfortunate that not
all in Nova Roma understand that fact, but rest assured, my friend, that
those who really matter do understand the situation.
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Senator, ProConsul, and Senior Quaestor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: to quaestors |
| From: |
MarcusAudens@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:36:11 -0500 (EST) |
|
Master Gaius Coriolanus;
Sir;
I greet you most respectfully, and in response to your message offer you
my assistance. Please explain to me more fully your problem and perhaps
I can assist.
Marcus Minucius Audens
Senator, ProConsul and Senior Quaestor
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: About languages in NovaRoma |
| From: |
"radams36" <radams40@juno.com> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:42:45 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@y..., "Martins-Esteves" <esteves@c...> wrote:
> Salve G. Noviodune
> Salvete Omnes
>
>
>
> I fully agree with the first part of your message. And I would like
to remind our native english speaking cives who are fond of sarcasm
and verbal jokes, or the ones who like to win a dispute by means of
verborrhage, that the cives who don't speak English as a first
language very often have their ideas harmed by not being able to
express them accurately. Don't forget the power you have in your
hands (actually on the tip of your fingers) in terms of
imposing/proposing your ideas and values: during the time I take to
write a message, you could possibly write five of them. THAT is
intimidating for me!
>
>
> I suggest that our Curatrix sermonis should include your
considerations (MUTUAL RESPECT ON THE MAINLIST) in the guidelines for
the list users.
>
> Valete!
>
> Titus Horatius Atticus
> Civis Novae Romae in Provincia Brasilia
>
Well said, good Titus!
It always helps to get courteous, but candid, information like this
to help us round out our own narrower viewpoints. I thank you for the
dose of perspective (and your previous revelation that some people
worldwide associate the English language with earlier oppression - a
viewpoint that I had not considered, but should have known). I have
mixed feelings on the language Lex, but your level-headed and well-
reasoned missives have given me a better perspective from which to
consider the ideas for and against it.
Vale Bene,
Rufus Iulius Palaeologus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Quaestor roles, taxes and the language of Politics |
| From: |
"oppiusflaccus" <oppiusflaccus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:49:24 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quiritibus!
It's been a while since I've commented on anything, but now is as
good a time as any. This letter is primarily in response to the
message below, recently posted by Senator Audens. As Senator Audens
and I have long since buried our hatchets on a personal level, this
is not directed as a personal attack. To make a general redress:
1-As a former Quaestor, it surprises me to learn that there are both
senior and junior Quaestors as noted in Senator Auden's signature
line. For anything I've ever learned or studied, a Quaestor is a
Quaestor, is a Quaestor, is a Quaestor. Comments?
2-Though it annoys me slightly to see language such as "mounted
Cossack with a whip" directed at mi Patrone, on another level I must
say that it's quite encouraging to read from our experienced
magistrates when they let the sparks fly a little and make some base
personal and derogatory remarks. It hearkens back to the glory days
of politics in Antiqua when politicians called their opponents all
sorts of nasty (but grammatically interesting,) names. Since the
honored Senator has deemed this now acceptable in addressing other
magistrates, my hope is that he will not be unduly offended when
others do the same.
3-It's so unfortunate to see all the bandwidth being expended on the
tax issue yet again. (Or in Latin, ad nauseaum.) Since it's all been
said before, I would simply state that any citizens who have truthful
and special circumstances that prevent them from paying taxes contact
their magistrates directly, OFF LIST and in some instances personal
arrangements could be made. Though I myself am by no means a rich,
paypal-loving Americano, I would extend the offer the Senator Audens
has made and consider sponsoring one or two Nova Romans if their
personal circumstances so warrant. If this situation might apply to
you, please contact me directly offlist. This is much more productive
and will ensure that we do our part to maintain the status
of our more productive citizens and help eliminate some of the sad
last minute posturing of those wishing to resurrect old (and quite
dead) tax debates. There are just so many productive things that can
be done no?
May this letter find you all well.
Bene valete in Pace Deorum,
-Oppius
Senator Audens wrote:
Master Titus Horatius Atticus;
No, Master Atticus, you are not the only one to see the absurdity of
the message from the Junior Consul. The passage to which you refer,
was a response from our Junior Consul to a gentleman who was asking a
civilquestion of concern to him. The response from a Senior
Magistrate, was as from a mounted Cossack with a whip.
It is understood that the deadline for tax payment is very short. Our
Honored Senior Consul has explained the short period in much gentler
and easier terminology, and there is a item on the Senate Agenda to
extend the payment period, to which myself and several others agree.
It is understood by the Honored Senior Consul and his assigned
Quaestor, that not all of the problems of the tax gathering system
have been eliminated, or perhaps even addressed. It is truly
unfortunate that not all in Nova Roma understand that fact, but rest
assured, my friend, that those who really matter do understand the
situation.
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
|
| Subject: |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=20Re=3A=20=5Bnovaroma=5D=20Re=3A=20NOVA=20ROMA=20=2D=20Annual=20memberships=20n?= |
| From: |
tiberius.ann@bluemail.ch |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:50:45 +0100 |
|
Salve, Marce Octavii Germanice,
I have a very bad habit, and that is to answer a mail before having read
everything with the same subject heading. So please don't be offenden that
I have not written an answer to you personally. Please just read what I
wrote as an answer to T Labienus Fortunatus, for it is almost identical
with what I would have answered you.
With all respect, cura ut valeas, Tiberius Annaeus Otho
Lictor
________________________________________
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| Subject: |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=20Re=3A=20=5Bnovaroma=5D=20Re=3A=20NOVA=20ROMA=20=2D=20Annual=20memberships=20n?= |
| From: |
tiberius.ann@bluemail.ch |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:47:41 +0100 |
|
Salve T Labiene Fortunate,
>The uses of "shall" and "will" are different depending on which form of
English
>
>one is using. In the US, "shall" is almost never used in everyday speech,
>and
>is often seen as a bit pompous. Take a look at the usage note at
>http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=shall for more information. And, do
note
>
>that many of the authors of Nova Roma's laws most likely were not aware
of
>such
>grammatical technicalities.
Thanks for the site, I will check up on it.
>Actually, I was only commenting on the interpretation of "shall", and not
>on
>the text of the senatusconsultum. The full text in question is:
>"IV. The Senate shall, with the aid and assistance of the local governors,
>assign Publicani (sing. Publican) to assist with the efficient and cost-
>effective collection of taxes, where it deems appropriate."
>Take note of the last clause of that sentence: "where it deems appropriate."
> This gives the Senate the freedom to exercise its discretion in appointing
>Publicani, including the ability not to appoint any Publicani at all.
>Therefore, while Cornelius Consul's stated reason for his conclusion that
>the
>Senate is free not to appoint Publicani was erroneous, the conclusion itself
>is
>still reasonably correct.
OK, I accept the fact, that the Senate has the power to decide. However,
is it not clear to most of us, that there seems to be a need for at least
some inofficial publicani, when people come forward and volunteer to collect
the money and make one huge transmission into the US, instead of letting
us all stand alone in the rain?
>That said, the Senate will almost certainly vote upon an extension of the
>tax
>deadline fairly soon. I, for one, will be voting in favor of it.
That is very comforting to hear.
Cura ut valeas, Tiberius Annaeus Otho
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| Subject: |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A=20AW=3A=20=5Bnovaroma=5D=20Taxes=20et=20Provinciae?= |
| From: |
tiberius.ann@bluemail.ch |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:56:13 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes,
Gosh, I seem to be quite behind my time here!!!!!!!! As it seems, everything
has gotten solved until I had the possibility to check my mails again. I'm
sorry for all those who have to answer my mails, which are by now outdated.
I'm grateful to my governor, for his clearance on this subject, and I hope,
that such inofficial publicani will be legally accepted by the central government
as soon as possible.
Respectfully,
Curate ut valeatis,
Tiberius Annaeus Otho
Lictor
-- Original-Nachricht --
>
>Salvete, Quirites,
>salve, Gn. Popilli Quaestor.
>
>I offered the same service to the citizens in Germania. I´ll collect the
>taxes there on my bank account and give them to the treasury via PayPal,
>when the deadline is over.
>
>This is a reasonable and quite easy way, and I recommend this to all governors
>who have a PayPal account.
>
>Valete
>Caius Flavius Diocletianus
>Censor, Senator
>Propraetor Germaniae
>
>-- Original Nachricht--
>Von: g_popillius_laenas <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
>An: novaroma@yahoogroups.com
>Senden: 13.02.2002
>Betreff: [novaroma] Taxes et Provinciae
>
>Salvete Omnes,
>
>A suggestion has been made that Provincial Governors might be able to
>help with tax collection outside the USA. Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
>has offered to collect taxes in her Province of Canada and to remit
>them in a lump sum. Such a system would certainly save bank and
>other fees for cives who cannot or do not wish to use Paypal.
>
>If other Governors are willing and able to assist in this way, I
>suggest they notify their cives. I also suggest civies who wish to
>pay the tax, but who cannot find a reasonable way to do so, contact
>their Governor and see if any help is available.
>
>Not all Governors may be equipped to handle such a transaction and
>each is free to decide his or her level of participation. Also,
>cives should remember that the Governors have not been bonded. The
>cost is simply out of line with regard to the total amount of taxes
>expected to be collected (Frankly, there will be plenty of room in
>the temple to store the expected tax "haul"). Although the
>possibility of a defalcation by such noble magistrates over such
>small amounts is, in my opinion, very remote, the issue has been
>raised before.
>
>Valete
>Gaius Popillius Laenas
>Consular Quaestor
>payments@novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Candidates Without a Plan |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> |
| Date: |
14 Feb 2002 11:54:44 -0200 |
|
On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 11:41, Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> Salve Praetor,
>
> > I know if I were voting I would be very interested in knowing if any
> > of the candidates for Tribune are clients of another citizen, or
> > particularily, another magistrate....
> >
> > But failure to disclose
> > pertinent facts, which could even be covertly disclosed after the
> > election, will, as the archives attest, disillusion people, and
> > likely do little for a candidates future political career.
>
> An excellent point.
>
> A Tribune should be concerned, first and foremost, with defending the
> Constitution and the rights of the citizens. His ability to do so is
> severely compromised when he is taking orders from another magistrate
> in secret.
>
> I find it rather disturbing that none of the candidates for Tribune
> have yet answered your challenge and revealed their affiliations.
>
> I ask them directly: Candidates for Tribune, do you consider
> yourselves "clients" of any citizen, magistrate or otherwise?
> Have you pledged your loyalty to any magistrate?
>
Salve,
For myself, I have no allegeance to any magistrate.
For the other question, I already publicly said I was also a private
in SVR (no charges at all) and an active member in various local
sport clubs.
Manius Villius Limitanus
> The Plebeian Citizens have a right to know who their tribunes
> are really working for.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Quaestor roles, taxes and the language of Politics |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:20:28 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve Oppi Flacce,
> 1-As a former Quaestor, it surprises me to learn that there are both
> senior and junior Quaestors as noted in Senator Auden's signature
> line. For anything I've ever learned or studied, a Quaestor is a
> Quaestor, is a Quaestor, is a Quaestor. Comments?
Among all those who were elected Quaestor, Senator Audens received votes
from the largest number of tribes. Therefore, he is Senior. This does
not grant him any powers above those of the other Quaestores. His ability
to deliver such excellent lines about mounted Cossacks derives from
his dignitas as a Proconsul and senior Senator.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] cives domestici |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> |
| Date: |
14 Feb 2002 13:11:00 -0200 |
|
On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 07:21, Martins-Esteves wrote:
> Salvete Cives
>
>
> Back from the Carnival festivities, I took some time to read all the messages in the period. I was surprised by the deadline for tax payment, but much more by this passage, quoted from a message from L. Cornelius Sulla, consul.
>
>
> <<The Senatus Consultum has been implmented. It is your choice to decide
> if you will comply with it or not too. The choice is yours. Many of
> our citizens, both international and domestic have already paid. I am
> certain that many more will continue to pay and help Nova Roma gain the
> financial stability She deserves.>>
>
>
> I assume that the domestic citizens refered are the ones from the USA, am I right? Is this an special expression used by Paypal or what?
>
>
> Am I the only one to see the absurdity in the terminology?
>
See the bright side of it: he didn't call us "foreign" citizens :)
Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
>
> Valete
>
> Titus Horatius Atticus
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] About languages in NovaRoma |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@goldenfuture.net> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:29:20 -0500 |
|
Salve,
>>I suggest that our Curatrix sermonis should include your considerations
(MUTUAL RESPECT ON THE MAINLIST) in the guidelines for the list users.>>
I am in 100% agreement that list members should treat each other with
respect and dignity. In fact, the guidelines for this list state:
"III.If you must criticize another's post, consider doing so in private
e-mail. If the person has made a genuine error, this allows him or her to
save face and apologize for misbehavior or correct misinformation, rather
than having misdeeds pointed out publicly."
and
"VIII.Name-calling and personal attacks are inappropriate. Expressions of
disagreement should be confined to criticizing the words or ideas of
another, rather than the person. You are always free to disagree with an
idea, but please do not turn an ideological debate into a personal fight."
There are also explicit suggestions for how to handle things in a
non-threatening manner if a disagreement should occur. All of this is set
up to facilitate mutual respect on this list.
The "fly in the ointment", however, comes via the letter of the
Constitution. Free speech is guaranteed in Nova Roma, but so is the right
of the magistrate in charge of this list to moderate it reasonably so as to
protect the members from attack and abuse. Someone may be quite irritating
or annoying, but unless they cross the line into where I, or my excellent
scriba, can take legal action, there is nothing we can do.
We always encourage respect for each other, but that is not always the
result. We have many members and all of us are human. Beyond enforcing the
laws and issuing appropriate Edicta, all we *can* do is call on each
individual list member to do their part to make this a mutually respectful
environment.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis
Lictor
"
>
> Valete!
>
> Titus Horatius Atticus
> Civis Novae Romae in Provincia Brasilia
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Quaestor roles, taxes and the language of Politics |
| From: |
MarcusAudens@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:13:41 -0500 (EST) |
|
Master Oppius;
In regard to the Quaestor role, it is my assumption that just as the
Senior and Junior Consuls are chosen for the number of votes they
recieve, this selection method may also be addressed to Quaestors. If
such offends you, or disturbs you sufficiently to make a public request
of me to cease and desist, I should be pleased to considerate it.
In regard to a Magistrate answering a civil question of a Nova Roma
Citizen, which is of concern to him or her in a blunt authoritarian
manner, very lke a Cossack with a whip, I feel such to be inappropriate.
If you ever find me doing that, in like manner, for like reason, then
you have my specific permission to use the same description, as you
will.
In regard to your Paterfamilias, I was not referring to such. I was
referring to a Senior Magistrate which had in the estimate of a second
Citizen stepped over the line in providing a courteous reply. If the
Paterfamilous and the Senior Magistrate, in this case, happen to be the
same person, you have my solicitations, but in regard to the situation
it makes little difference to me who is being boorish, with one
exception. The more senior the Magistrate the more he should cultivate
a gentle response. That is a responsibility of a Magistrate, and if one
is unwilling to follow the rules and provide a courteous response to a
Citizen, particularly regarding a situation directed by the action of
that Magistrate, which impinges or may impinge on the ability of a
citizen to complete his / her viewed responsibilty to the micronation,
then that lack is doubly onerous.
The queston asked of the Senior Magistrate, in this case, has in fact
been answered very civilly by the Honored Senior Consul, in a manner
which should have come from the Junior, in my opinion. Apparently, my
view of such was not the only one.
The above is my view, and is mine alone. Others may think similarly or
not, and it is certainly thier right to do so. However, so is my
feeling and neither the status, family relationship nor wealth, of any
Magistrate should make a difference when supporting a citizen.
It is good to hear from you again Master Oppius. I have missed you and
your comments on list. Your observations are always interesting and
intrigueing to the intellect.
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] MY ALLEGIANCE AND INTENTIONS |
| From: |
"arloro1" <antoniuscorvusseptimius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:37:04 -0000 |
|
A. CORVUS SEPTIMIUS PUBLICUS POPOLI ROMANI S.F.
My allegiance is to my gods and my culture, as presented to me
by my father.Later, my devotion grew into studying it to my present
capacity. Even to the point to where someone inquires as to my
ethnicity or culture, I reply " I am Roman ". As proud as a person
living in Roma today (unless they are a Lazio fan :) just kidding of
course).As far as my intentions... at present, I would serve as
Tribunus Plebis, as a voice for my fellow Plebians. In hopes to bring
everyone closer together. So that eventually, we have a cohesive
representation between orders.This would help in presenting our
respective Roman communities around the world.And eventually, actually
having a society outside of the internet.
I, am a client of Consul Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix. And,
have absolutely nothing to hide from anyone. As I asked before, when I
announced my candidacy. I welcome all questions.And will do me best to
answer them. The reason for my desicion (of joining his cliantage),
was that most (if not all) of my goals to help the culture grow, were
expressed by my patronus.Ive watched him discuss issues on the main
list with these goals in mind. Sadly, I did not see much of that
intent from others.All seemed content in keeping our culture in a
virtual world discussing how their version of recunstruction was
better than the other.Politically, he (my patronus) did and is still
focused on the goal of Nova Roma's mission.
Now, are we going to see results in regards to our mission
here in Nova Roma? Or shall we only discuss the latest movie trailers?
valete
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Quaestor roles, taxes and the language of Politics |
| From: |
"oppiusflaccus" <oppiusflaccus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:43:00 -0000 |
|
Salvete Senator Audens et Quiritibus,
Gratias multas for your thoughtful reply. For those keeping score
at home, Sulla is in fact *not* my paterfamilias but rather
my Patrone. (As in the client/patrone of all the nasty recent
and past debates.- I know, I know, it may *seem* that Sulla is
indeed poppa to a large portion of the citizenry, but really -I have
my own gens thanks :-) <yes, please read humor there :-)>
Secondly, I must confess that part of me actually getting a 'kick'
out of your Cossack comment and also to that of the senior Consul who
stated that it was indeed your dignitas that provided for such
comments! Honestly though, it really didn't offend me that greatly
and as stated I felt worth mentioning in the context of
a message discussing the lack of gentle language whilst letting loose
with a bit of the barbed tongue. My point was that respected
officials (of which I consider you to be,) can/do/should be plain in
their comments and expect others to do the same. If anything, my
concern is in 'keeping it fair' so to speak.
In regards to the Quaestor race, I solicited comments and if it is
the law/wish/diviniation of the respublica to denote minor offices
between senior and junior classifications, then so be it. I'll defer
to the comments of Consul Octavius on that point. If this designation
applies to this and other positions, then it would be good for some-
one to clarify the specifics.
Anyways, no need to pull punches on my account -we all need to speak
plainly from time to time. Enough said from me on these topics for
now. My best wishes to you and will look forward to futuer
discussions.
Bene valete,
-Oppius
Bene
--- In novaroma@y..., MarcusAudens@w... wrote:
> Master Oppius;
>
> In regard to the Quaestor role, it is my assumption that just as the
> Senior and Junior Consuls are chosen for the number of votes they
> recieve, this selection method may also be addressed to Quaestors.
If
> such offends you, or disturbs you sufficiently to make a public
request
> of me to cease and desist, I should be pleased to considerate it.
>
> In regard to a Magistrate answering a civil question of a Nova Roma
> Citizen, which is of concern to him or her in a blunt authoritarian
> manner, very lke a Cossack with a whip, I feel such to be
inappropriate.
> If you ever find me doing that, in like manner, for like reason,
then
> you have my specific permission to use the same description, as you
> will.
>
> In regard to your Paterfamilias, I was not referring to such. I was
> referring to a Senior Magistrate which had in the estimate of a
second
> Citizen stepped over the line in providing a courteous reply. If
the
> Paterfamilous and the Senior Magistrate, in this case, happen to be
the
> same person, you have my solicitations, but in regard to the
situation
> it makes little difference to me who is being boorish, with one
> exception. The more senior the Magistrate the more he should
cultivate
> a gentle response. That is a responsibility of a Magistrate, and
if one
> is unwilling to follow the rules and provide a courteous response
to a
> Citizen, particularly regarding a situation directed by the action
of
> that Magistrate, which impinges or may impinge on the ability of a
> citizen to complete his / her viewed responsibilty to the
micronation,
> then that lack is doubly onerous.
>
> The queston asked of the Senior Magistrate, in this case, has in
fact
> been answered very civilly by the Honored Senior Consul, in a manner
> which should have come from the Junior, in my opinion. Apparently,
my
> view of such was not the only one.
>
> The above is my view, and is mine alone. Others may think
similarly or
> not, and it is certainly thier right to do so. However, so is my
> feeling and neither the status, family relationship nor wealth, of
any
> Magistrate should make a difference when supporting a citizen.
>
> It is good to hear from you again Master Oppius. I have missed you
and
> your comments on list. Your observations are always interesting and
> intrigueing to the intellect.
>
> Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
|
