Subject:	Re: [novaroma] To Pompeia Cornelia
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@bconnex.net>
Date:	Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:40:00 -0500

Salvete Cl. Salix Davianus et cives,

I have worked with Pompeia Cornelia within my provincia, and I cannot
remember a time when she lost her calm in a vicious debate or did not
display virtuous behaviour. In my eyes she is one of the role model citizens
here in the res publica. I feel very comfortable with her keeping order on
this list.

If she decides to continue to be curatrix sermonis for the rest of the term
she has my full support.

Valete,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
--

> Cl. Salix Davianus at davius_sanctex@terra.es wrote:
>
> I am very pleased that an upright person as you being the moderatrix of the
> main list!
> As all here we know Patricia Cassia was an excellent and uncontroversial
>,
> I expect you will make another good work as P. Cassia made.
>
> But what about the "novae directrices" introduced by the former curatrix,
> Priscilla Vedia, are
> you thinking in relax someone of her controversial "new rules" ... expecially
> that concerning
> strict use of languages, and other concerning censorship of certain members?

Subject:	[novaroma] Britannia Chat Room
From:	"LuciusSalixCicero" <lucius@salixcicero.fsnet.co.uk>
Date:	Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:50:37 -0000

Salvete,

A new chat room has been set up to promote communication between Nova Roma citizens of Britannia although it is mainly for Britannia all Nova Roma citizens are most welcome.
Hope to see you there soon !

http://mercury.beseen.com/chat/rooms/o/25857/Login.html

Valete

L.Salix Cicero
Legatus Britanniae


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: Language/List requirements was (Re: [novaroma] To Pompeia Cornelia)
From:	"Cl. Salix Davianus" <davius_sanctex@terra.es>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:03:23 -0000

Avete omnes et Ave tu care L. Corneli Sulla:

>>Why not be proactive, Tribune Claudius Salix, and apply to be a translator? And thus you can be apart of the solution!<<

I think this is a fair suggerence. I will apply for translation. Thanks appreciated Consul!

About Lex Cornelia, the soberaing decissions of the People of Nova Roma have all my respect. Indeed I am not against that lex ... I only was claiming against the "particular licences" that the former curatrix, Priscilla Vedia Serena [now also sodalis mea in SVR] toke unilaterally.

Respectfully,

[Fl.] Cl. Salix Davianus [Iulianus]
=======================
Tribunus Plebis Novae Romae
Legatus Internis Rebus Hispaniae
Rector Collegium Latinum
Senator Societatis Viae Romanae
Futurus(?) Praeceptor Academiae Thules
=======================

Dispense my awful English, Consul!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: Language/List requirements was (Re: [novaroma] To Pompeia
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	26 Mar 2002 22:24:25 -0300

Illustre Consul,

Em Ter, 2002-03-26 ąs 20:53, L. Cornelius Sulla escreveu:
> Avete Omnes et Tribune Claudius Salix,
>
> I saw this same post on the Senate list and refrained from posting there.
> However, you have reposted this post on the Nova Roma main list.
> Because of this I feel it necessary to respond to the People of Nova
> Roma.
>
> I am glad that Praetor Pompeia Cornelia is temporary moderator of the ML.
> She has always enjoyed my complete confidence. However, there will
> need to be an election for a new list moderator, this will most likely
>take place in April.

I am very glad to hear that, since this important postion in NR should
definitively be an elected one.

>
> As per the main list guidelines, let us not forget that the Citizens of
> Nova Roma have voted and confirmed the Lex Cornelia de Linguis
> Publicus. This law re-affirms the Senatus Consultum that was passed
> during the Consulship of Flavius Vedius et Marcus Cassius.

During the debate before that vote it was repeatedly affirmed that it
had nothing to do with list policies. Now you let us understand that it
could have something to do with it. Where lies the truth? When were we
fooled?

The outrageous language policy that reigns over this list seems to be
widely rejected among non-english speaking citizens and it this should
be a legitimate concern to every elected magistrate and it is very
estimable to see a tribune defend the people.
With every new Curator Sermonis the question must be asked again: do we
live in a free nation where freedom of speach and expression are
guaranteed or do we live in a dictatoral like nation with previous
censure and limited rights of expression for some citizens, while others
are free because they were born in another language.

I hope our highly honorouble temporary curatrix will answer in the way
of freedom.

Salve,

Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: To Pompeia Cornelia
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:34:27 -0000

---

Salvete Honoured Tribunus Salix Davianus, Manius Velius, Legatus
Amulius Claudius, et alii:

First of all, I would like to thank my Provincial Legatus and
Retarius for his kind words...although I endeavor to be virtuous, the
fact that I have never been known to get a bit heated in discussions
can be contested by a few Senators :) Suffice it to say that I do
not become inflammed easily, and generally, not without good reason.

Secondly, I am very aware of the difficulties and objections to the
current list language policies.

I very much intend to review this policy, and that is as much as I
shall commit to right now, I'm afraid. Priscilla's 9-day waiting
period is barely over, and I haven't felt at moral liberty to adjust
any policies prior to this.

Please keep in mind, that this language policy was not created in bad
faith. Perhaps, now, it can be viewed as an 'overkill' in current
form, but last year we had to tighten list policies, because of
spammers and trolls: those who would send vile messages in Latin,
those who would borderline blaspheme the Gods/Goddesses (not on the
mainlist, but on another sodalitas list). Those who would open email
addies, for purposes of ridiculing and humiliating other citizens on
this list. No matter which way you look at it, these incidents aren't
funny. And when we start allowing the printed utilization of the
deities precious to Rome for individual satirical/spiteful appetites,
it's time to pack up and give Rome back to the Vandals, no?

I stick by Priscilla's actions at the time. She did alot to avoid
mayhem. Her language policy was a bona fide attempt to keep order,
not an attempt at despotism. I can assure of that. Really.

However, perhaps myself and Vedia took out the battering ram, with
respect to list policy modifications, when just throwing a pilum or
two would have done the trick. Vita et Scientia (live and learn).

There were a couple of excellent suggestions put forth last November
during the elections by Lucius Pompeius and Manius Velius which I
think would be worth taking a look at. This may surprise you, but
these suggestions are quite compatible in spirit to the language lex
recently passed by comitia. They would allow for a more liberal, but
effectual approach to managing multilingual communications.

Again, leave this with me, please, to render more indepth, serious
thought and reflection.

I thank you for your confidence, quirites.

Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia



In novaroma@y..., Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Cl. Salix Davianus et cives,
>
> I have worked with Pompeia Cornelia within my provincia, and I
cannot
> remember a time when she lost her calm in a vicious debate or did
not
> display virtuous behaviour. In my eyes she is one of the role model
citizens
> here in the res publica. I feel very comfortable with her keeping
order on
> this list.
>
> If she decides to continue to be curatrix sermonis for the rest of
the term
> she has my full support.
>
> Valete,
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
>
> Canada Orientalis Website:
> www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
> --
>
> > Cl. Salix Davianus at davius_sanctex@t... wrote:
> >
> > I am very pleased that an upright person as you being the
moderatrix of the
> > main list!
> > As all here we know Patricia Cassia was an excellent and
uncontroversial
> >,
> > I expect you will make another good work as P. Cassia made.
> >
> > But what about the "novae directrices" introduced by the former
curatrix,
> > Priscilla Vedia, are
> > you thinking in relax someone of her controversial "new
rules" ... expecially
> > that concerning
> > strict use of languages, and other concerning censorship of
certain members?

Subject:	Re: Language/List requirements was (Re: [novaroma] To PompeiaCornelia)
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:23:00 -0800

Michel Loos wrote:

> Illustre Consul,

Ave Manius Villius et al,,

>
>
> Em Ter, 2002-03-26 ąs 20:53, L. Cornelius Sulla escreveu:
> > Avete Omnes et Tribune Claudius Salix,
> >
> > I saw this same post on the Senate list and refrained from posting
> there.
> > However, you have reposted this post on the Nova Roma main list.
> > Because of this I feel it necessary to respond to the People of Nova
>
> > Roma.
> >
> > I am glad that Praetor Pompeia Cornelia is temporary moderator of
> the ML.
> > She has always enjoyed my complete confidence. However, there will
> > need to be an election for a new list moderator, this will most
> likely
> >take place in April.
>
> I am very glad to hear that, since this important postion in NR should
>
> definitively be an elected one.

Yes, I agree.

>
>
> >
> > As per the main list guidelines, let us not forget that the Citizens
> of
> > Nova Roma have voted and confirmed the Lex Cornelia de Linguis
> > Publicus. This law re-affirms the Senatus Consultum that was passed
>
> > during the Consulship of Flavius Vedius et Marcus Cassius.
>
> During the debate before that vote it was repeatedly affirmed that it
>
> had nothing to do with list policies. Now you let us understand that
> it
> could have something to do with it. Where lies the truth? When were we
>
> fooled?
>

I am not going to respond to your hyperbole. I suggest you actually
read the law and not jump to supposition and hyperbole.

>
> The outrageous language policy that reigns over this list seems to be
> widely rejected among non-english speaking citizens and it this should
>
> be a legitimate concern to every elected magistrate and it is very
> estimable to see a tribune defend the people.

I see you are speaking for the 20% of Nova Romans now. Interesting.

<Snipped the remainder of the Manius Villius hyberbole>

Valete Omnes,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: Language/List requirements was (Re: [novaroma] To Pompeia
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:12:12 -0500 (EST)

Hmmmmmmm!!

Where lies the truth and where were we fooled? It must be a terrible
thing to be so suspicious of everyone around you that you see threats in
every person's face. I guess that I too, would be a little sensitive if
I thought everyone whom I had ever met was comtemplating some excessive
outrage against me. Such must really be very disconcerting!!!

However, I must agree with Mr. Loos' comment in regard to the
"outrageous" language policy that is dominating here in Nova Roma. It
ranks right along with those darned traffic lights at virtually every
corner nowadays, that despite how much I complain to the police and the
traffic regulating agencies of my state, still "conspire" to keep me
from going where I wish to go, when I wish to go, and how I wish to go.

Of course, there are others using the same road that I use, but thier
needs are obviously not nearly as important as mine, and besides they
are all conspiring against me as well.

I sincerely believe that we should certainly allow all the myriad of
languages in the world to post to this list, willy-nilly. It would
certainly provide the maximum amount of freedom for those who must have
frreedom at any cost, and it would certainly help me, in that those who
do not speak in my language, I won't be able to understand, and then of
course they will not be able to conspire against me, if I can't
understand what they are saying. I have a pet ostrich who thinks the
same way by burying his head in the sand when faced wih a situation that
he doesn't understand!!!! Surprising that, but very satisfying, I am
sure!!!!

Meanwhile who cares what others have to say that cannot communicate in
the languge that I have mastered. They probably don't count anyway,
since they too are conspiring against me, in all liklihood.

Mr Loos certainly has the right idea, all right and I can tell you
ladies and gentleman on this list, that from my experience in working
closely with Pompea Cornelia Strabo, she will paiently and steadfastly
give Mr. Loos comments and allegations all of the credit and
consideration that his comments deserve, in considering where this list
shall go and how this list shall be modified. However, she will only be
in temporary control of this list for a short time, and then a new List
Moderator will be elected. May I be so bold as to recommend to you, Mr.
Loos, whose idea of moderation is complete freedom for everyone, and let
those people who do not understand "his" language go to the wall. I am
pleased that those people who previously have written earthy little
coloquial notes about Nova Roma, in Latin will again be given the chance
to disrupt this list. It is only right after all, since everyone here,
with the exception of Mr. Loos is obviously conspiring against
me!!!!!!!!

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	AW: [novaroma] Roman sites in Germania
From:	<3s@hsk-net.de>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:56:47 -0600 (CST)

Salvete Omnes,
Salve, Attice.

I did not read about such a site, but there are some interesting pages about roman sites in Germania.

Perhaps this helps:

http://www.datacomm.ch/olhaenzi/roem.civ1.html
http://www.germanien.org/germanien.htm

Bene Vale
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Censor, Senator
Propraetor Germaniae

-- Original Nachricht--
Von: Martins-Esteves <esteves@compuland.com.br>
An: novaroma@yahoogroups.com
Senden: 24.03.2002
Betreff: [novaroma] Roman sites in Germania

Salvete Quirites

(Resending this message -- my first one seem to be lost...)

I don't know if this information was given here or somewhere else, but anyway I
would apreciate any help.
I remember having read about a German site which linked every Roman ruins,
villas etc inside Germany. Does anyone know about it?

Vale!

Atticus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Subject:	[novaroma] Letter from "Maximus" Mercurius Minucius Gladius
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:17:52 -0500 (EST)

Honored Censors and Citizens of Nova Roma;

This day, March 18, 2002 (2755). I returned home from vacation with my
family, and was delighted to recieve by "Snail Mail" the posting of
Friday, March 1, 2002 from the Censors@novaroma,org, and which posting
offers me congratulations and welcome as a Citizen of Nova Roma. I wish
to extend my warmest thanks to censors Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus and
Caius Flavius Diocletianus for thier efforts to see to the procesing of
my application, and I most humbly commit to reflect well in all my
endeavors upon Nova Roma, both by word and deed.

I would like to thank most abundantly my sponsor, Senator Marcus
Minucius Audens, whose tireless efforts a sponsorship and relay of
pertinent information effectuated my accetance and approval. I further
do most humbly accept installation as a Membe of the Sodalitas
Miitarium, and my appointment to the Militarium Command Staff with the
rank of "Palus Primus Gladitore," in continuing and loyal service to
Senator Audens. As co-investor and primary Lanistae in our "Ludus
Magnus Gladitore", Senator Audens' participaton and sponsorship has not
been capable of valuation, indeed his services have been both essential
and invaluable in the modest, yet very reassuring success our young
"Ludus" has realized.

I do intend to come to grips with my fear and loathing of all things
"cyber," and to overcome my admittedly irrational "cyber-apprehensions."
I shall endeavor to secure an adequate home computer set-up with an
E-Mail capacity sometime soon. However, as always, until then, I shall
communicate via Senator Audens, or I may be reached at (631) 329-2430.

What we do as citizens of New Rome will be judged by our progeny as well
as ourselves (and it is we who must remain our own harshest critics in
the interest of historical accuracy and honorable deportment), but I
firmly believe that those whom we seek to honor look down upon us in
judgement as well. I believe that they MUST be pleased with what they
see: Modern Citizens of Nova Roma, engaged in active and robust
discourse, and who through action spurred on by the very highest and
most honorable of intentions, seek to preserve, advance, and honor the
reality of Rome through the Ages, into the Present, and beyond, into the
Future. Thank you for the honor of my approval. I remain ....

Mecurius Minucius Gladius

"Palus Primus Gladitore"

Subject:	[novaroma] All packed up with nowhere to go..........
From:	"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:41:00 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

OK, so I'm all packed up my and ready to leave my current flat. In fact, my father will arrive with a van in less than an hour. Its quite a shame then that I've yet to find somewhere else to live, a situation that I'm sure will be resolved soon :-)

However, my current predicament means that I will be living from suitcases for the next couple of weeks, and as a result my online access will be rather sporadic during this period. I will nevertheless endeavour to check my post at least once a day. I just apologise in advance for any delay in replying to those who may contact me directly in the near future.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae
Scriba Censoris
Lictor.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Chat room
From:	"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:48:18 -0000

Congratulations Luci Salix in setting up this excellent chat room. I join with you in encouraging all citizens, British or otherwise, to make use of this facility so we may all get to know one another better.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] List Language Policy
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:53:04 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites,

I Shall start by stating that I don't think it's a
good idea to have the acting curator change any
policies on this list. I do not fully agree with the
current language policy of this list, but I care even
less for the idea of an apointed magistrate changing
policies set by an elected magistrate so I would have
to oppose any changes until an election is held for
curator of this list.

I Stated my basic feelings about the language isuse
last year and would like to repeat it now.

When Roma was a small town on the Tiber, the Greeks
were busy founding cities from the Pillars of Hercules
to the Black Sea. The Empire of Alexander didn't last
long, but the states that came into being when it
broke up continued the spread of Greek civilization
and the Greek language. When Roma became a great
power, she found herself in a world dominated by the
Greek language. The Romans were a very pragmatic
people, they didn't seek to impose their Latin
language on the areas they conquered, they learned to
speak Greek.

In Ancient times Greek was the international language.
Everyone who wanted to take part in a culture greater
than that of their city learned Greek as a second
language. Most Greeks, however refused to bother
learning a second language and looked down on those
who failed to learn their tongue. The Word "Barbarian"
originally meant someone who didn't know Greek, who
barked like a dog (Bar Bar). Barbarian later acquired
the meaning of "Uncivilized" because anyone who didn't
speak Greek was considered to be uncivilized.

Nova Roma finds herself in the same position as
Ancient Roma as far as language goes. We have come
upon a world that the language of an earlier power has
become the dominant international tongue. English has
the same status today that Greek had for the Ancient
Romans. Unfortuntally many of us who speak English as
their native tongue have an attitude similar to that
of the ancient Greeks. We all ready speak the
international language, why bother learning a
"barbarian" tongue?

Which brings me to the Nova Roma mail list. In a
normal mailing list or newsgroup it's considered a
violation of the rules of "nettiquite" to post to the
group in a language other than the language of the
group. It's considered allmost as bad as spamming the
list. It's looked on as very bad manners. However this
is NOT a normal mailing list. This is the place Nova
Romans receive their official news of upcoming events.
A Citizen may know enough English to get a feeling of
whats going on, but lack the skills to phrase a
question in English to get the information they need.
I see no problem in allowing these citizens to post a
reply asking for help in their native language. These
kinds of posts should be fairly infrequent. The only
time I would see a reason for moderation would be if
it developed into a conversation between two or three
citizens, addressed to each other, rather than the
group as a whole. Then it would be time for them to be
encouraged to take their private conversation to
regular e-mail instead of posting to the group (as
should be done with English threads that turn into a
private conversation).

So Much for my gut instinct.

Now I fully understand the legal problems involved in
having a fully open offical list. Because of stupid
decessions made by USA Judges Nova Roma Inc. and the
members of it's board of directors (The Senate) can be
sued for Libel if some fool posts something slanderous
on this list. The Fool should be the only one held
liable, but the USA courts don't see it that way,
hence the need for modaration of the list.

Last year I was working behind the scenes trying to
get a lex introduced that would appoint translators,
and among their duties would be assisting the Curator
of this list. the Lex would have stated that citizens
may post in any language that has an apointed
translator. Due to the fact that the last election for
modarator of this list was to an extent a referenda on
the language policy, I advised the Consul that we
shouldn't include the main list language policies in
the lex on languages. The People had voted in favor of
the current policy a short time earlier and it wasn't
proper to place it before them again.

I Still favor the idea of having the Translators
assist the Curator of this list and at least opening
it up to languages that have an apointed translator,
the Translator being responsible for translating any
posts rather than the citizen. Perhaps after the
Election the new Curator of this list will consider
this policy.

L. Sicinius Drusus

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"gaiuscoriolanus" <jozef.duhacek@siemens.sk>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:17:29 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>

Now I fully understand the legal problems involved in
> having a fully open offical list. Because of stupid
> decessions made by USA Judges Nova Roma Inc. and the
> members of it's board of directors (The Senate) can be
> sued for Libel if some fool posts something slanderous
> on this list. The Fool should be the only one held
> liable, but the USA courts don't see it that way,
> hence the need for modaration of the list.


I guess I do not understand what is this about. How can US take
legal steps against person or institution when someone maybe non US
citizen from the other side of globe say something slanderous?
It seems to me like the "abuse of majesty" . A 100 years ago my
country was a part of Austrian Empire ans such crimes were
drastically punished.

And next how can US judge, or court or police find that something
slanderous was said? Doeas that mean that US authorities are
watching our discussions in this list?

Coriolanus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 05:12:52 -0800 (PST)

--- gaiuscoriolanus <jozef.duhacek@siemens.sk> wrote:
>
> --- In novaroma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus"
> <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites,
> >
>
> Now I fully understand the legal problems involved
> in
> > having a fully open offical list. Because of
> stupid
> > decessions made by USA Judges Nova Roma Inc. and
> the
> > members of it's board of directors (The Senate)
> can be
> > sued for Libel if some fool posts something
> slanderous
> > on this list. The Fool should be the only one held
> > liable, but the USA courts don't see it that way,
> > hence the need for modaration of the list.
>
>
> I guess I do not understand what is this about. How
> can US take
> legal steps against person or institution when
> someone maybe non US
> citizen from the other side of globe say something
> slanderous?
> It seems to me like the "abuse of majesty" . A 100
> years ago my
> country was a part of Austrian Empire ans such
> crimes were
> drastically punished.
>
> And next how can US judge, or court or police find
> that something
> slanderous was said? Doeas that mean that US
> authorities are
> watching our discussions in this list?
>
> Coriolanus
>

Salvete,

US Authorities are watching the entire internet with
software like Carnivore, including email, but they are
looking for words and phrases that mean a post may be
about Terrorism, Drug smuglling or espionage. They
aren't looking for slander.

Libel is a Cival, not a criminal matter. It is up to
the person who has been slandered to bring it before
the courts.

If I were angry with a citizen and accused him of
child molesting, he would be able to (rightfully) sue
me in US courts for doing this. Under US law he could
also sue Nova Roma for having it on a list they own.
He couldn't sue Yahoo because they have common carrier
status under US law, something we don't qualify for.

In the UK it's even worse, they don't recognize common
carrier status making it even easier to sue third
parties. A UK internet company was sued over something
that an American posted on an American list and they
lost because they carried the list.

Drusus


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: To Pompeia Cornelia
From:	"Martins-Esteves" <esteves@compuland.com.br>
Date:	Mon, 25 Mar 2002 04:21:17 -0300

Salve Pompeia Cornelia
Salvete Cives


Changes in the language policies in the ML demands a radical transformation in NR. And that leads to one of the major challenges we face: how to overcome subliminal (or even conscious) idelogies and nationalisms and let NR become more Roman, more universal.

If we cannot cope with this problem know, we can solve another issue, a much more technical and neutral one: previous control in the ML. Last December I tried to raise a debate about this and asked Mrs. Bloch to suspend this control (and I insisted calling it censura) during elections. She rejected my suggestion and I appealed to a praetor, asking for an intercessio. It didn't work well because it was elections time and many factors, aside from common sense and juridical arguments, were present. Than I promissed to bring the issue again after elections period and the most favorable moment seems to be know.

So, quirites and specially Pompeia Cornelia, I invite you to think about this: previous control during elections. Bellow are transcripted two considerations from my Postulatio to praetor Diocletianus last December. They show my point.

<<II. It is now time for the debates before the elections and it is imperative that all candidates have unmoderated access to the main list. Each abuse or danger to the Constitution or the Res Publica must be sanctioned after it is done, and not before, during the elections period. This time must be the utmost democratic and uncensored, so that no missunderstanding or suspicion about the elections and the debates can damage the results of voting. It is imperative that no candidate suffer any sort of previous control of his or her messages, whatsoever.

III. The question must be solved using the Proportionality: it is much more important for Nova Roma to have a completely free debate than to control the postings of a single citizen, because one of his messages COULD be harmful to the Constitution. What IS effectively harmfull for the Constitution is previous censorship during the electoral debates.>>



Finally I would like to say that I am aware of all the cultural differences between us. And I am talking about macronarional influence. Perhaps some cultures may have less pacience or benevolence toward dissonant voices. And that isn't about Democracy, it goes deeper than that. However, I affirm that this debate is really positive and necessary to the improvement of our political system. And this is also a contribution to NR, as the incredible work by our friends in Academia Thules. So, please, quirites, lets think twice before using terms as <proactive>, <disruptive> an so on. Last time, when I raised this issue I was invited to shut up and translate some Latin...


Valete

Titus Horatius Atticus
rogator
legatus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: All packed up with nowhere to go..........
From:	"gaiuscoriolanus" <jozef.duhacek@siemens.sk>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:30:55 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., "Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@y...>
wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> OK, so I'm all packed up my and ready to leave my current flat. In
fact, my father will arrive with a van in less than an hour. Its
quite a shame then that I've yet to find somewhere else to live, a
situation that I'm sure will be resolved soon :-)
>
> However, my current predicament means that I will be living from
suitcases for the next couple of weeks, and as a result my online
access will be rather sporadic during this period. I will
nevertheless endeavour to check my post at least once a day. I just
apologise in advance for any delay in replying to those who may
contact me directly in the near future.
>
> Valete
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus
> Propraetor Britanniae
> Scriba Censoris
> Lictor.
>
>




Hmmm, it seems just like situation I had to resolve a two weeks ago.
It's pretty terrible to searching advertisments and talking with old
and moody landlords. I'm glad It is over for now. So good luck

Vale
Coriolanus




> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Trip To Europe
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:53:21 -0500

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 08:47:08PM -0500, MarcusAudens@webtv.net wrote:

Master Marcus Minucius Audens:

> Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> I have withdrawn to some degree from the Main List, as I have been
> accused of lecturing to the list, being dishonorable and generally
> insulting.

Of course, no one likes to be accused of vile behavior of that sort;
however, I hope that you revisit that decision and reconsider. One person's
opinion does not make a quorum. I, for one, have appreciated your presence
on this list as long as I have been reading it; in several cases, yours
has been one of the few voices of moderation in heated discussions,
something I believe would be sorely missed.

> Since I have no desire to lecture anyone, particularly since I don't
> have nearly enough letters behind my name to do so. I also have no
> desire to be insulting, and while I personnally believe my honor is
> intact, I have no desire to force that fact on anyone.

Given the mechanics of Internet forums, I would say that it is impossible
to lecture anyone without their consent; one of the first things that any
Internaut learns is the location of the "Delete" key. Anyone who accuses
another poster of "lecturing" is trying to sell something, and people would
be well advised to examine the pig in that particular poke. /Caveat
emptor/, for it smells of rotten fish.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu.
-- Seneca Philosophus, "Epistulae"

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Radagaisus
From:	"javier_gil_ruiz" <javier_gil_ruiz@yahoo.es>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:08:37 -0000

Salvete omnes cives

To make things even more clear, I remember that "Radegast" was
actually the name of a deity with a three faced idol of the slavic
population that dwelled around the Berlin region (Stettin, I think)
before they were conquered by the german "roman holy" empire.

The frequency of the appearance of the name suggest that it may
have been a popular name, held by several leaders, which may be the
cause of the confusion.

Linguistically the name seems to mean "tree of council" or "guest of
counsel" (highly uninformed opinion).

Valete bene

Marcus Salix Saverius



--- In novaroma@y..., Craig Stevenson <gaiussentius@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Can anyone out there tell me if Radagaisus was a
> Vandal, a Goth, an Alan or what. I've heard so many
> differing accounts of his background and origin that I
> don't know what to beleive anymore.
>
> Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> Valete bene omnes,
>
> Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!

Subject:	[novaroma] MEGALESIA AWARD -1 week
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:34:25 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

MEGALESIA CULTURAL AWARD
1st Edition
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

I remember all of you that the deadline of the Megalesia Cultural Award is
APRIL 3, 2002.

The M.C.A. is the literary Award of Nova Roman literary texts dedicated to
Magna Mater, produced by the Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
and me, Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus, Franciscus Apulus Caesar,
member of the Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus.

The topics of the works must be about Ludi Megalesia, Cybele (Magna Mater),
Dea Fortuna, agricolture and farm contents, Punic Wars and battles.
All citizens, singles or groups, of Nova Roma can participate sending their
own novel, poem, drama tragedy, comedy, etc. The contributed work must be
in English, with a maximum of 500 words.

I repeat:
- The DEADLINE (not shouting) to send your work is April 3, 2002 (2755
a.u.c.), by e-mail to me,
sacro_barese_impero@libero.it
[Franciscus Apulus Caesar]

with the subject "Megalesia C.A." and Nova Roman name(-s), real
name(-s), Nova Roman Provincia (-e), age(-s) and e-mail address(-s) of each
participant.

Please send me your works by e-mail privatly! All the works will published
in Megalesia webpages in the Cohors Aedilis website.

- INFORMATIONS -
Regulations c/o Cohors Aedilis - Section Ludi
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/megalesia/mca.htm
Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
tjalens.h@telia.com
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus, Franciscus Apulus Caesar
sacro_barese_impero@libero.it

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Valete et Bonam Fortunam

Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: To Pompeia Cornelia
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	27 Mar 2002 10:26:10 -0300

On Tue, 2002-03-26 at 23:34, pompeia_cornelia wrote:
> ---
>
> Salvete Honoured Tribunus Salix Davianus, Manius Velius, Legatus
> Amulius Claudius, et alii:
>
> First of all, I would like to thank my Provincial Legatus and
> Retarius for his kind words...although I endeavor to be virtuous, the
> fact that I have never been known to get a bit heated in discussions
> can be contested by a few Senators :) Suffice it to say that I do
> not become inflammed easily, and generally, not without good reason.
>
> Secondly, I am very aware of the difficulties and objections to the
> current list language policies.
>
> I very much intend to review this policy, and that is as much as I
> shall commit to right now, I'm afraid. Priscilla's 9-day waiting
> period is barely over, and I haven't felt at moral liberty to adjust
> any policies prior to this.
>
> Please keep in mind, that this language policy was not created in bad
> faith. Perhaps, now, it can be viewed as an 'overkill' in current
> form, but last year we had to tighten list policies, because of
> spammers and trolls: those who would send vile messages in Latin,
> those who would borderline blaspheme the Gods/Goddesses (not on the
> mainlist, but on another sodalitas list). Those who would open email
> addies, for purposes of ridiculing and humiliating other citizens on
> this list. No matter which way you look at it, these incidents aren't
> funny. And when we start allowing the printed utilization of the
> deities precious to Rome for individual satirical/spiteful appetites,
> it's time to pack up and give Rome back to the Vandals, no?
>
> I stick by Priscilla's actions at the time. She did alot to avoid
> mayhem. Her language policy was a bona fide attempt to keep order,
> not an attempt at despotism. I can assure of that. Really.
>
> However, perhaps myself and Vedia took out the battering ram, with
> respect to list policy modifications, when just throwing a pilum or
> two would have done the trick. Vita et Scientia (live and learn).
>
> There were a couple of excellent suggestions put forth last November
> during the elections by Lucius Pompeius and Manius Velius which I
> think would be worth taking a look at. This may surprise you, but
> these suggestions are quite compatible in spirit to the language lex
> recently passed by comitia. They would allow for a more liberal, but
> effectual approach to managing multilingual communications.
>
> Again, leave this with me, please, to render more indepth, serious
> thought and reflection.

Thanks Pompeia, you have my full trust to try do the best for NR.

Manius Villius Limitanus


>
> I thank you for your confidence, quirites.
>
> Bene valete,
> Pompeia Cornelia
>
>
>
> In novaroma@y..., Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Cl. Salix Davianus et cives,
> >
> > I have worked with Pompeia Cornelia within my provincia, and I
> cannot
> > remember a time when she lost her calm in a vicious debate or did
> not
> > display virtuous behaviour. In my eyes she is one of the role model
> citizens
> > here in the res publica. I feel very comfortable with her keeping
> order on
> > this list.
> >
> > If she decides to continue to be curatrix sermonis for the rest of
> the term
> > she has my full support.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > --
> > Amulius Claudius Petrus
> > Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> > Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
> > Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> > Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
> > Canada Orientalis Provincia
> >
> > Canada Orientalis Website:
> > www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
> >
> > Gens Claudia Website:
> > www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
> > --
> >
> > > Cl. Salix Davianus at davius_sanctex@t... wrote:
> > >
> > > I am very pleased that an upright person as you being the
> moderatrix of the
> > > main list!
> > > As all here we know Patricia Cassia was an excellent and
> uncontroversial
> > >,
> > > I expect you will make another good work as P. Cassia made.
> > >
> > > But what about the "novae directrices" introduced by the former
> curatrix,
> > > Priscilla Vedia, are
> > > you thinking in relax someone of her controversial "new
> rules" ... expecially
> > > that concerning
> > > strict use of languages, and other concerning censorship of
> certain members?
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"gaiuscoriolanus" <jozef.duhacek@siemens.sk>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:49:35 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- gaiuscoriolanus <jozef.duhacek@s...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In novaroma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus"
> > <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > > Salvete Quirites,
> > >
> >
> > Now I fully understand the legal problems involved
> > in
> > > having a fully open offical list. Because of
> > stupid
> > > decessions made by USA Judges Nova Roma Inc. and
> > the
> > > members of it's board of directors (The Senate)
> > can be
> > > sued for Libel if some fool posts something
> > slanderous
> > > on this list. The Fool should be the only one held
> > > liable, but the USA courts don't see it that way,
> > > hence the need for modaration of the list.
> >
> >
> > I guess I do not understand what is this about. How
> > can US take
> > legal steps against person or institution when
> > someone maybe non US
> > citizen from the other side of globe say something
> > slanderous?
> > It seems to me like the "abuse of majesty" . A 100
> > years ago my
> > country was a part of Austrian Empire ans such
> > crimes were
> > drastically punished.
> >
> > And next how can US judge, or court or police find
> > that something
> > slanderous was said? Doeas that mean that US
> > authorities are
> > watching our discussions in this list?
> >
> > Coriolanus
> >
>
> Salvete,
>
> US Authorities are watching the entire internet with
> software like Carnivore, including email, but they are
> looking for words and phrases that mean a post may be
> about Terrorism, Drug smuglling or espionage. They
> aren't looking for slander.
>
> Libel is a Cival, not a criminal matter. It is up to
> the person who has been slandered to bring it before
> the courts.
>
> If I were angry with a citizen and accused him of
> child molesting, he would be able to (rightfully) sue
> me in US courts for doing this. Under US law he could
> also sue Nova Roma for having it on a list they own.
> He couldn't sue Yahoo because they have common carrier
> status under US law, something we don't qualify for.
>
> In the UK it's even worse, they don't recognize common
> carrier status making it even easier to sue third
> parties. A UK internet company was sued over something
> that an American posted on an American list and they
> lost because they carried the list.
>
> Drusus

And where is freedom of speech? If I were angry with you and accused
you from something, I understand that you will sue me. But how does
NR or yahoo be related with it? It is censorship or mail cover or
call it anyway. So they can sue the air that had carried my voice
with false accusation, they can sue my parents that taught me to
speak.

But as I think of it it is money standing behind this law. Accused
person probably can not get exuse and satisfaction from unknown
member of yahoogroups, but yahoo is surely able to pay.

Coriolanus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Roman sites in Germania
From:	"Martins-Esteves" <esteves@compuland.com.br>
Date:	Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:09:23 -0300

Salve C.Fl. Diocletiane
Salvete


In fact the sites you provided were not the specific one I was looking for, but they are great! For the ones dreaming to build a small roman villa in the countryside, take a look at
http://www.roemischevillaborg.de/


Thanks Diocletiane.

Valete

Atticus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Radagaisus
From:	"gaiuscoriolanus" <jozef.duhacek@siemens.sk>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:22:45 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., "javier_gil_ruiz" <javier_gil_ruiz@y...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Salvete omnes cives
>
> To make things even more clear, I remember that "Radegast" was
> actually the name of a deity with a three faced idol of the slavic
> population that dwelled around the Berlin region (Stettin, I think)
> before they were conquered by the german "roman holy" empire.
>
> The frequency of the appearance of the name suggest that it may
> have been a popular name, held by several leaders, which may be the
> cause of the confusion.
>
> Linguistically the name seems to mean "tree of council" or "guest
of
> counsel" (highly uninformed opinion).
>
> Valete bene
>
> Marcus Salix Saverius

Salve

Radegast is really old slavic deity but not only around Berlin.
Worshiping of Radegast was spread in Bohemia and Great Moravia too
until this states were converted to christians.

BTW Radegast is one of the best Czech beers and therefore one of the
best beers in the world

Vale

Coriolanus

>
> --- In novaroma@y..., Craig Stevenson <gaiussentius@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Can anyone out there tell me if Radagaisus was a
> > Vandal, a Goth, an Alan or what. I've heard so many
> > differing accounts of his background and origin that I
> > don't know what to beleive anymore.
> >
> > Any help would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Valete bene omnes,
> >
> > Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
> >
> > http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> > - 1,000s of Bargains!

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:26:06 -0800 (PST)

--- gaiuscoriolanus <jozef.duhacek@siemens.sk> wrote:
SNIP
>
> And where is freedom of speech? If I were angry with
> you and accused
> you from something, I understand that you will sue
> me. But how does
> NR or yahoo be related with it? It is censorship or
> mail cover or
> call it anyway. So they can sue the air that had
> carried my voice
> with false accusation, they can sue my parents that
> taught me to
> speak.
>
> But as I think of it it is money standing behind
> this law. Accused
> person probably can not get exuse and satisfaction
> from unknown
> member of yahoogroups, but yahoo is surely able to
> pay.
>
> Coriolanus

The Laws haven't caught up with the new technology. If
I wrote a letter to a newspaper slandering someone
they would have to take an action to print it, and
courts ruled the newspaper could be sued for printing
my letter.

Idiot Judges have applied the same standard to the
internet as to newspapers, and because of these
decessions Nova Roma can be sued for having a
slanderous post on this list. It's a stupid law, but
until it's changed we have to protect ourselves by
following it.

Yahoo on the other hand can't be sued in the US
because they have common carrier status. They could be
sued in the UK however.

These are the only two Macronations that I'm familar
with the Libel laws in, but I wouldn't be surprised to
find that other Macro Nations also have idiot laws
like these on their books.

For Now it's the US law that i'm mainly worried about,
because Nova Roma is incorparated in the USA and
directly subject to it's laws.

Drusus


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	27 Mar 2002 10:33:17 -0300

On Wed, 2002-03-27 at 10:12, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> --- gaiuscoriolanus <jozef.duhacek@siemens.sk> wrote:
> >
> > --- In novaroma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus"
> > <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > > Salvete Quirites,
> > >
> >
> > Now I fully understand the legal problems involved
> > in
> > > having a fully open offical list. Because of
> > stupid
> > > decessions made by USA Judges Nova Roma Inc. and
> > the
> > > members of it's board of directors (The Senate)
> > can be
> > > sued for Libel if some fool posts something
> > slanderous
> > > on this list. The Fool should be the only one held
> > > liable, but the USA courts don't see it that way,
> > > hence the need for modaration of the list.
> >
> >
> > I guess I do not understand what is this about. How
> > can US take
> > legal steps against person or institution when
> > someone maybe non US
> > citizen from the other side of globe say something
> > slanderous?
> > It seems to me like the "abuse of majesty" . A 100
> > years ago my
> > country was a part of Austrian Empire ans such
> > crimes were
> > drastically punished.
> >
> > And next how can US judge, or court or police find
> > that something
> > slanderous was said? Doeas that mean that US
> > authorities are
> > watching our discussions in this list?
> >
> > Coriolanus
> >
>
> Salvete,
>
> US Authorities are watching the entire internet with
> software like Carnivore, including email, but they are
> looking for words and phrases that mean a post may be
> about Terrorism, Drug smuglling or espionage. They
> aren't looking for slander.
>
> Libel is a Cival, not a criminal matter. It is up to
> the person who has been slandered to bring it before
> the courts.
>
> If I were angry with a citizen and accused him of
> child molesting, he would be able to (rightfully) sue
> me in US courts for doing this. Under US law he could
> also sue Nova Roma for having it on a list they own.
> He couldn't sue Yahoo because they have common carrier
> status under US law, something we don't qualify for.
>
> In the UK it's even worse, they don't recognize common
> carrier status making it even easier to sue third
> parties. A UK internet company was sued over something
> that an American posted on an American list and they
> lost because they carried the list.
>

It seems to me that in this case we should base ourself
out of their juridiction (UK and US).
For example Debian based their files containing cryptographic
programs in the Netherlands in order not to be subjected
to the oppresive US Laws.

I am sure there are many possibilities for this, as you know I already
voluteered for free(as in beer) hosting of the list. If this is
necessary in order to have a free (as in freedom) list, we definitively
should go for it.

A foreign oppresive country should not dictate the laws of our nation,
that is what our declaration of independance is about. The USA, by their
laws should not be able to force us to disrescpect basic human rights
as freedom of speach.

Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	[novaroma] Application as a translator for German language
From:	tiberius.ann@bluemail.ch
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:41:25 +0100

Salvete omnes, salve Luci Corneli Sulla,

>Why not ... apply to be a translator?

>Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>Consul


As you might have heard once or twice allready, I regularly translated messages
from English into German during the time I am with NR. Therefore I would
like to aplly formaly for the position of translator for the German language.
Some time ago, somebody even told me, that I was allready set for that position,
but since I have never heard anything about it again, I am now wondering,
if I can call myself interpres linguae Germanicae or not.

Yours respectfully, Tiberius Annaeus Otho

Lictor curiatus
paterfamilias Gentis Annaearum
praefectus scribarum Germaniae Superioris
civis Novae Romae

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:03:47 -0800

Avete Omnes,

Manius, when are you going to understand that we are incorporated as a not-for-profit corporation in the United States? This has been pointed out a number of time by myself and others. We are bound by the laws of the United States and the Great State of Maine. We are bound by the tax laws, the applicable federal laws and the applicable state laws that affect Nova Roma. I am going to try to say this as nicely as possible, Manius, because it seems you just don't grasp this concept despite the fact it has been explained to you numerous times. This information has not been hidden from you, it has been in the Tabularium (articles of incorporation) for a very long time. If its not something you are willing to live with then you should move on. But we are not going to risk our incorporation status and our legal standing because you dont like it.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma

<Snip more of Manius's hyperbole>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] EDICT: Curatrix pro tempore
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:09:47 -0600 (CST)

The departure of the Curatrix Sermonis has left us without an
elected list moderator. The former Curatrix did, however, leave
intact the moderator powers of her Scriba, Praetrix Pompeia
Cornelia Strabo.

It is absolutely necessary that someone perform the list moderation
functions. Many subscribers were on "moderated" status when the
Curatrix left; if there were no acting Curator, these persons would
be unable to post at all (as their messages would languish in the
queue, unapproved).

Therefore, an emergency appointment is necessary. I hereby appoint
Praetrix Pompeia Cornelia Strabo as Curatrix Sermonis pro tempore,
this appointment to be effective until an election in the Comitia
Populi Tributa establishes regular elected moderators.

Details of that election will be published within the next
two days.

M. Octavius Germanicus, Consul.
ante diem VI Kal. Apriles MMDCCLV a.u.c.


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:43:09 -0000

---


Salve Drusus:

My comments below.

In novaroma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I Shall start by stating that I don't think it's a
> good idea to have the acting curator change any
> policies on this list. I do not fully agree with the
> current language policy of this list, but I care even
> less for the idea of an apointed magistrate changing
> policies set by an elected magistrate so I would have
> to oppose any changes until an election is held for
> curator of this list.

Pompeia Respondeo: Well Druse, per se, I would agree with you. But
when you take a deeper examination of things, I am not only Curatrix
pro tempore, I am also Praetor. The policies of the list are subject
to my imperium and veto.

Mind you, I have always made every effort to work in the spirit of
cooperation, before an imperium issue becomes a factor with me, but
nonetheless, I do, even currently have this imperium.

I am not allowed to change the consitution, but myself, and Titus
Labienus are both guardians of civil law, which encompasses civil
rights, a few of which are expressed in the consitution.

So, when people appeal to me as Curatrix pro tempore, that might not
mean much, but I am also Praetor, and they are appealing to me to
examine current list policies in light of current consitutional
policies on rights to public forums.

This brings me to comment on something I feel strongly about:

The position of Curatrix Sermonis is one totally without imperium.
To me, this makes about as much sense as putting someone in the New
York Police Department without a gun. She relies soley on the
Tribunes and/or Praetors to back up her policies. She operates soley
under the imperium of what senior magistrates view as
constitutionally appropriate. This makes the job one of drudgery,
and one where abuse can be quite plentiful, even if the person feels
he or she is doing what is correct.

Truly, I wouldn't wish this sordid predicament on anyone. It sets up
even the most tolerant and caring individual for dillusionment within
Nova Roma, and an unwillingness to take on other positions.

I believe that, either we give this individual some more magisterial
backup, some more imperium, or we abolish the position to begin with
and bestow it upon the Praetors, or the Praetors and Aediles.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia





>
> I Stated my basic feelings about the language isuse
> last year and would like to repeat it now.
>
> When Roma was a small town on the Tiber, the Greeks
> were busy founding cities from the Pillars of Hercules
> to the Black Sea. The Empire of Alexander didn't last
> long, but the states that came into being when it
> broke up continued the spread of Greek civilization
> and the Greek language. When Roma became a great
> power, she found herself in a world dominated by the
> Greek language. The Romans were a very pragmatic
> people, they didn't seek to impose their Latin
> language on the areas they conquered, they learned to
> speak Greek.
>
> In Ancient times Greek was the international language.
> Everyone who wanted to take part in a culture greater
> than that of their city learned Greek as a second
> language. Most Greeks, however refused to bother
> learning a second language and looked down on those
> who failed to learn their tongue. The Word "Barbarian"
> originally meant someone who didn't know Greek, who
> barked like a dog (Bar Bar). Barbarian later acquired
> the meaning of "Uncivilized" because anyone who didn't
> speak Greek was considered to be uncivilized.
>
> Nova Roma finds herself in the same position as
> Ancient Roma as far as language goes. We have come
> upon a world that the language of an earlier power has
> become the dominant international tongue. English has
> the same status today that Greek had for the Ancient
> Romans. Unfortuntally many of us who speak English as
> their native tongue have an attitude similar to that
> of the ancient Greeks. We all ready speak the
> international language, why bother learning a
> "barbarian" tongue?
>
> Which brings me to the Nova Roma mail list. In a
> normal mailing list or newsgroup it's considered a
> violation of the rules of "nettiquite" to post to the
> group in a language other than the language of the
> group. It's considered allmost as bad as spamming the
> list. It's looked on as very bad manners. However this
> is NOT a normal mailing list. This is the place Nova
> Romans receive their official news of upcoming events.
> A Citizen may know enough English to get a feeling of
> whats going on, but lack the skills to phrase a
> question in English to get the information they need.
> I see no problem in allowing these citizens to post a
> reply asking for help in their native language. These
> kinds of posts should be fairly infrequent. The only
> time I would see a reason for moderation would be if
> it developed into a conversation between two or three
> citizens, addressed to each other, rather than the
> group as a whole. Then it would be time for them to be
> encouraged to take their private conversation to
> regular e-mail instead of posting to the group (as
> should be done with English threads that turn into a
> private conversation).
>
> So Much for my gut instinct.
>
> Now I fully understand the legal problems involved in
> having a fully open offical list. Because of stupid
> decessions made by USA Judges Nova Roma Inc. and the
> members of it's board of directors (The Senate) can be
> sued for Libel if some fool posts something slanderous
> on this list. The Fool should be the only one held
> liable, but the USA courts don't see it that way,
> hence the need for modaration of the list.
>
> Last year I was working behind the scenes trying to
> get a lex introduced that would appoint translators,
> and among their duties would be assisting the Curator
> of this list. the Lex would have stated that citizens
> may post in any language that has an apointed
> translator. Due to the fact that the last election for
> modarator of this list was to an extent a referenda on
> the language policy, I advised the Consul that we
> shouldn't include the main list language policies in
> the lex on languages. The People had voted in favor of
> the current policy a short time earlier and it wasn't
> proper to place it before them again.
>
> I Still favor the idea of having the Translators
> assist the Curator of this list and at least opening
> it up to languages that have an apointed translator,
> the Translator being responsible for translating any
> posts rather than the citizen. Perhaps after the
> Election the new Curator of this list will consider
> this policy.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
> http://movies.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] MEGALESIA AWARD -1 week
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:43:24 -0500 (EST)

Honored Ceasar and Quintillianus;

I may well have been interested in entering your contest if I knew what
the contest was all about. Your extensive use of Latin in your
descriptions, while I am sure is very satisfying to those who have
mastered that language, in my humble view, blurs the purpose of the
contest, and the subjects allowed for determination, by those who do not
read Latin readily.

I do not have anyhing against either of you personnally, but without a
translation of your allowed topics, I cannot even consider entering your
contest. This grieves me substantially as The Honored Senator
Quintillianus is a good friend and colleague. I undersand that he is
trying to interest the Citizens in contributing to the Republic in some
small way. However, I would point out for those "barbarians" of us who
do not speak, write or understand either Greek or Latin the extensive
use of these languages in a description on a list which has stated that
English will be the language for the business of the Republic, is
disappointing.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:10:43 -0800 (PST)

--- pompeia_cornelia <trog99@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ---
>
>
> Salve Drusus:
>
> My comments below.
>
> In novaroma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus"
> <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites,
> >
> > I Shall start by stating that I don't think it's a
> > good idea to have the acting curator change any
> > policies on this list. I do not fully agree with
> the
> > current language policy of this list, but I care
> even
> > less for the idea of an apointed magistrate
> changing
> > policies set by an elected magistrate so I would
> have
> > to oppose any changes until an election is held
> for
> > curator of this list.
>
> Pompeia Respondeo: Well Druse, per se, I would
> agree with you. But
> when you take a deeper examination of things, I am
> not only Curatrix
> pro tempore, I am also Praetor. The policies of the
> list are subject
> to my imperium and veto.
>
> Mind you, I have always made every effort to work in
> the spirit of
> cooperation, before an imperium issue becomes a
> factor with me, but
> nonetheless, I do, even currently have this
> imperium.
>
> I am not allowed to change the consitution, but
> myself, and Titus
> Labienus are both guardians of civil law, which
> encompasses civil
> rights, a few of which are expressed in the
> consitution.
>
> So, when people appeal to me as Curatrix pro
> tempore, that might not
> mean much, but I am also Praetor, and they are
> appealing to me to
> examine current list policies in light of current
> consitutional
> policies on rights to public forums.
>
> This brings me to comment on something I feel
> strongly about:
>
> The position of Curatrix Sermonis is one totally
> without imperium.
> To me, this makes about as much sense as putting
> someone in the New
> York Police Department without a gun. She relies
> soley on the
> Tribunes and/or Praetors to back up her policies.
> She operates soley
> under the imperium of what senior magistrates view
> as
> constitutionally appropriate. This makes the job
> one of drudgery,
> and one where abuse can be quite plentiful, even if
> the person feels
> he or she is doing what is correct.
>
> Truly, I wouldn't wish this sordid predicament on
> anyone. It sets up
> even the most tolerant and caring individual for
> dillusionment within
> Nova Roma, and an unwillingness to take on other
> positions.
>
> I believe that, either we give this individual some
> more magisterial
> backup, some more imperium, or we abolish the
> position to begin with
> and bestow it upon the Praetors, or the Praetors and
> Aediles.
>
> Bene vale,
> Pompeia Cornelia
>

Salve,

Up to now all the appeals I have read were addressed
to you as the acting Curator requesting a change in
policy.

None of them asked for a legal revue regarding the
constionuality of the policy from the Praetors which
is another matter entirely, and I would welcome a
revue so that the legal status of such a list policy
is beyond doubt.

Therefore I formally request that Pompeia Cornelia and
Titus Labenius perform a legal revue on the
constionuality of the present policy requiring that
posts be made in English or accompioned by an English
translation. Did the former Curator of this list
excede her authority?

As far as giving Imperium to the Curator of this list,
I beleave this would require an admendment to the
Constitution. It does not grant Imperium to the
Curator as it does to the magistrates who have it.

L. Sicinius Drusus

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Radagaisus
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Aulus=20Hirtius=20Helveticus?= <hirtius75ch@yahoo.de>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:39:34 +0100 (CET)

salvete!

Radegast is indeed a slavonic deity, god of honour and
strength, to be exact.

for those of you who do speak german, there is a
comprehensiv dictionary of several old religions
(germanic, slavonic, finno-ugrian and others):

http://www.sagengestalten.de/

beside the beer, Radegast is also a city in
Sachsen-Anhalt/Germany and a family name.

still a note to my person: i am new to this list and i
am not yet a citizen of Nova Roma (still waiting to be
accepted), but i subscribed to the list in order to
get in touch with you people. so i hope to be accepted
soon and that i can contribute anything essential to
this list.

valete,

A. Hirtius Helveticus (if the censors approve my
choice...)


__________________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Ihre E-Mail noch individueller? - http://domains.yahoo.de

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:27:43 -0000

---Salve Drusus:

The fact that nobody has asked verbatin for my views, analyses, etc.
as Praetor, but merely Curatrix Sermonis, does not mean that I am not
chosing to entertain them from both position perspectives.

Although I am pro tempore Curatrix, I am also Praetor; it is
difficult to ignore my broader obligations as Praetor in looking at
the current list policies, and relating them to the constitution.

As I said in my last exchange to you, I am keenly aware that the
Curatrix has no imperium. There is little I can do to change that,
as Praetor. I was in no way suggesting that I try, simply that is
one avenue that we can examine, in making the job more pallatible and
more weighted.

My analysis of the list policies is already in the works, but I thank
you for your request. I shall be first taking the matter up with my
colleague. I shall have to view these delicate issues, however,
from both the Praetors's and Curatrix' perspectives, especially the
former, as my position of Praetor is an elected one, and the populus
is counting on me for fair and equal representation in the
facilitation of their rights, as deleanated by the constitution. The
curatrix, can make no such guarantees, in the absence of being
augmented by senior magistrates.

I hope I have made my position more clear to you.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia




In novaroma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- pompeia_cornelia <trog99@h...> wrote:
> > ---
> >
> >
> > Salve Drusus:
> >
> > My comments below.
> >
> > In novaroma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus"
> > <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > > Salvete Quirites,
> > >
> > > I Shall start by stating that I don't think it's a
> > > good idea to have the acting curator change any
> > > policies on this list. I do not fully agree with
> > the
> > > current language policy of this list, but I care
> > even
> > > less for the idea of an apointed magistrate
> > changing
> > > policies set by an elected magistrate so I would
> > have
> > > to oppose any changes until an election is held
> > for
> > > curator of this list.
> >
> > Pompeia Respondeo: Well Druse, per se, I would
> > agree with you. But
> > when you take a deeper examination of things, I am
> > not only Curatrix
> > pro tempore, I am also Praetor. The policies of the
> > list are subject
> > to my imperium and veto.
> >
> > Mind you, I have always made every effort to work in
> > the spirit of
> > cooperation, before an imperium issue becomes a
> > factor with me, but
> > nonetheless, I do, even currently have this
> > imperium.
> >
> > I am not allowed to change the consitution, but
> > myself, and Titus
> > Labienus are both guardians of civil law, which
> > encompasses civil
> > rights, a few of which are expressed in the
> > consitution.
> >
> > So, when people appeal to me as Curatrix pro
> > tempore, that might not
> > mean much, but I am also Praetor, and they are
> > appealing to me to
> > examine current list policies in light of current
> > consitutional
> > policies on rights to public forums.
> >
> > This brings me to comment on something I feel
> > strongly about:
> >
> > The position of Curatrix Sermonis is one totally
> > without imperium.
> > To me, this makes about as much sense as putting
> > someone in the New
> > York Police Department without a gun. She relies
> > soley on the
> > Tribunes and/or Praetors to back up her policies.
> > She operates soley
> > under the imperium of what senior magistrates view
> > as
> > constitutionally appropriate. This makes the job
> > one of drudgery,
> > and one where abuse can be quite plentiful, even if
> > the person feels
> > he or she is doing what is correct.
> >
> > Truly, I wouldn't wish this sordid predicament on
> > anyone. It sets up
> > even the most tolerant and caring individual for
> > dillusionment within
> > Nova Roma, and an unwillingness to take on other
> > positions.
> >
> > I believe that, either we give this individual some
> > more magisterial
> > backup, some more imperium, or we abolish the
> > position to begin with
> > and bestow it upon the Praetors, or the Praetors and
> > Aediles.
> >
> > Bene vale,
> > Pompeia Cornelia
> >
>
> Salve,
>
> Up to now all the appeals I have read were addressed
> to you as the acting Curator requesting a change in
> policy.
>
> None of them asked for a legal revue regarding the
> constionuality of the policy from the Praetors which
> is another matter entirely, and I would welcome a
> revue so that the legal status of such a list policy
> is beyond doubt.
>
> Therefore I formally request that Pompeia Cornelia and
> Titus Labenius perform a legal revue on the
> constionuality of the present policy requiring that
> posts be made in English or accompioned by an English
> translation. Did the former Curator of this list
> excede her authority?
>
> As far as giving Imperium to the Curator of this list,
> I beleave this would require an admendment to the
> Constitution. It does not grant Imperium to the
> Curator as it does to the magistrates who have it.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
> http://movies.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] EDICT: Curatrix pro tempore
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:25:26 -0500 (EST)

Honored Consul Germanicus;

I approve your immediate move in appointing Senator and Praetor Strabo
to the position of Acting List Moderator. As you have so wisely pointed
out the List requires Moderation, in order to protect List Members from
the excesses of those who would take advantage of an unmoderated list.
This necessity has been well proven in the past, and is just as apparent
today with the very tiresome cries of abandonment of the US / UK
involvement with NR, treachery in high places, self-serving magistrates,
and deep laid plots against the Citizens of Nova Roma.

We have heard all this drivel before from those who have left NR, and
established themselves elsewhere with even more proactive powers than we
have ever allowed here in NR.

Since my education does not extend to the degree of the Honored Junior
Consul, I am not sure that I can use the term "hyperbole" in my messages
effectively. However, my limited understanding of such usage leads me
to believe that the term may indicate "nonsence" so in that light I will
address the continuous attack on the the Senate and Magistrates of NR as
shadowy figures determined to limit the freedom of the Citizens of Nova
Roma as "nonsence." Others have tried such in much more eloquent
terminology to no pupose, and the current squawking cries of the crow,
who cannot have his immediate desire, is all too well known here in Nova
Roma.

As our Honored Junior Consul has stated, Nova Roma is established in the
U.S. legally and firmly. We are held to the laws of the U.S. and the
state of Maine. That is the current situation under the laws of Nova
Roma.

Further, since I have a great respect for those of other nations,
cultures and religion I make the greatest possible attempts not to make
determinations and accusations relating to the possible shortcomings of
any large group or the appointed authorities of these groups. I take
these very concious precautions since I am fully aware that I do not
possess either the detailed knowledge, nor the current information to
judge the actions of these groups and individuals effectively. So, I
would ask that those who criticize my country, and those appointed /
elected to administer my country, address such gently and with respect
in the manner that thier position and responsibility deserves. Terms
such as "Idiot" or the bashing of another's country without proof or
without detailed knowledge is a fool's errand and and a waste of time
and space on this lst. Further, is not only insulting to myself a a
citizen of that land, but is deliberately undermining the very delicate
relationship of a widespread oranization of people from differing
cultures, national concerns, and religious views.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	27 Mar 2002 15:36:32 -0300

On Wed, 2002-03-27 at 13:03, L. Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> Avete Omnes,
>
> Manius, when are you going to understand that we are incorporated as a
> not-for-profit corporation in the United States? This has been
> pointed out a number of time by myself and others.
> We are bound by
> the laws of the United States and the Great State of Maine. We are
> bound by the tax laws, the applicable federal laws and the applicable
> state laws that affect Nova Roma.
> I am going to try to say this as nicely as possible, Manius, because
> it seems you just don't grasp this concept despite the fact it has
> been explained to you numerous times. This information has not been
> hidden from you, it has been in the Tabularium (articles of
> incorporation) for a very long time. If its not something you are
> willing to live with then you should move on. But we are not going to
> risk our incorporation status and our legal standing because you dont
> like it.


What do we gain through this status ?

I don't see anything for NR. This status only reduces our independance
and forces us to disrespect elementary human rights. It seems that for
the NR nation it would be better to be incorparated in another country
or not at all, like Debian choosed.

Is there something in the USA that allows US citizens to deduct their NR
taxes from their IRS?

If yes this is another discrimination against non-US citizens which
should pay much reduced taxes.

If yes this is another indication of the US nature of NR opposed to the
universal aspiration it claims to have.

Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: To Pompeia Cornelia
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:30:21 -0500

Salve, Titus Horatius Atticus:

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 04:21:17AM -0300, Martins-Esteves wrote:
>
> So, quirites and specially Pompeia Cornelia, I invite you to think about
> this: previous control during elections. Bellow are transcripted two
> considerations from my Postulatio to praetor Diocletianus last December.
> They show my point.
>
> <<II. It is now time for the debates before the elections and it is
> imperative that all candidates have unmoderated access to the main list.
> Each abuse or danger to the Constitution or the Res Publica must be
> sanctioned after it is done, and not before, during the elections period.
> This time must be the utmost democratic and uncensored, so that no
> missunderstanding or suspicion about the elections and the debates can
> damage the results of voting. It is imperative that no candidate suffer
> any sort of previous control of his or her messages, whatsoever.
>
> III. The question must be solved using the Proportionality: it is much
> more important for Nova Roma to have a completely free debate than to
> control the postings of a single citizen, because one of his messages
> COULD be harmful to the Constitution. What IS effectively harmfull for
> the Constitution is previous censorship during the electoral debates.>>

Please, let's be clear about this: what you're asking for is not the
absence of censorship (note that I will even use your own term; I have no
quarrel with it) - if that was what you wanted, starting up another,
unmoderated list for the above purpose would suffice and would take no
more than a few minutes. What you're asking for is unmoderated access to
the audience on this list - and I, at least, do not believe that it should
be granted. This is a list for general NR discussion; I see the above as
nothing more than an attempt to coopt it for a specific political agenda.

> Finally I would like to say that I am aware of all the cultural
> differences between us. And I am talking about macronarional influence.
> Perhaps some cultures may have less pacience or benevolence toward
> dissonant voices. And that isn't about Democracy, it goes deeper than
> that.

Yes, I agree. Non-democracies have always been less tolerant (usually,
completely intolerant) of dissonant opinions. Were you, perhaps, trying to
imply the opposite? That contention would stand up much better for even a
tiny shred of proof, instead of a load of baseless implication.

> However, I affirm that this debate is really positive and necessary
> to the improvement of our political system. And this is also a
> contribution to NR, as the incredible work by our friends in Academia
> Thules. So, please, quirites, lets think twice before using terms as
> <proactive>, <disruptive> an so on.

To quote, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."
"Proactive" is a highly positive term, in my book; I would be interested in
seeing an instance on this list where it was used as a term of opprobrium.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Grammatici certant, et adhuc sub iudice lis est.
-- Horace, "Ars poetica"

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:03:14 -0000

---Salve Manius:

I know as Canadian, I could go through the motion of getting Nova
Roma, Canada Orientalis Provincia declared a nonprofit organization,
and we could thereby have the privilege of deducting our taxes and
donations.

Have you looked into doing the same in Brazil? You might find that
you can do the same thing.

Mani, I know you don't like the language policy, but can we refrain
from escalating this into a housekeeping bee on all the woes, faults,
policies and pet peeves about the Unites States of America?

Nova Roma had to start somewhere, and as it stands, our founders were
American citizens. Let's remember they founded Nova Roma..that's
what's most important. With respect, Mani,you are starting to steer
off course, and I think it is from a false assumption that the
language policy was an attempt at occidental imperialism....a notion
that I have tried to disspell.

We are all ROMANS in spirit and community. Let us all remember that,
please. Lets do something to sit and attempt to work out the kinks
in our system, and dispense with trying to analyze any one countries'
macronational features.



Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia


In novaroma@y..., Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-03-27 at 13:03, L. Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > Manius, when are you going to understand that we are incorporated
as a
> > not-for-profit corporation in the United States? This has been
> > pointed out a number of time by myself and others.
> > We are bound by
> > the laws of the United States and the Great State of Maine. We
are
> > bound by the tax laws, the applicable federal laws and the
applicable
> > state laws that affect Nova Roma.
> > I am going to try to say this as nicely as possible, Manius,
because
> > it seems you just don't grasp this concept despite the fact it
has
> > been explained to you numerous times. This information has not
been
> > hidden from you, it has been in the Tabularium (articles of
> > incorporation) for a very long time. If its not something you
are
> > willing to live with then you should move on. But we are not
going to
> > risk our incorporation status and our legal standing because you
dont
> > like it.
>
>
> What do we gain through this status ?
>
> I don't see anything for NR. This status only reduces our
independance
> and forces us to disrespect elementary human rights. It seems that
for
> the NR nation it would be better to be incorparated in another
country
> or not at all, like Debian choosed.
>
> Is there something in the USA that allows US citizens to deduct
their NR
> taxes from their IRS?
>
> If yes this is another discrimination against non-US citizens which
> should pay much reduced taxes.
>
> If yes this is another indication of the US nature of NR opposed to
the
> universal aspiration it claims to have.
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:15:47 -0500 (EST)

M. V. Limitanus;

What you personnally have gained through this "status" is the
micronation of Nova Roma. Your idea of universal human rights extends
to virtual anarchy, as you have blatantly ignored the past proven abuses
of such a system. Now it is clear that you wish to transfer the growing
importance of a micronation, founded in the U.S. to your own control,
for the purpose of enhancing your own importance, rather than assisting
NR to become a strong independent nation owing allegiance to no-one, but
offering mutually returned friendship to all.

You consistantly attack the U.S. for it's laws, policies, procedures and
privaledges, even though in the past, and currently you have provided
nothing, beyond your unsupported and vicious bashing of my country as
good reason and advantage of your attacks to NR.

I ask that you immediately stop such unsupported and radical abuse of
another culture and find another way to peddle your hatred of those who
endeavor in so many ways to make the world a better place. I am well
aware that the U.S. has made mistakes in the past, but I am also aware
that other country's policies have led them into an attempt at world or
continental domination, while the U.S. has throughout history,
consistantly eschewed those tactics. I am further well aware that some
country's internal policies have led to widespread depression and
financial instability. However, my detailed undersanding of these
problems is not such that I can criticize a national entity, even should
I wish to do so.

I have nothing but admiration for the citizens of Brazil whom I have met
(with the exception of yourself) thier ideas, thier skills, and the
beauty of thier cities and the majestic sweep of it's wild and beautiful
jungles and rivers, which I have been pleased to see in detail through
the eyes of my Father, whose efforts as a Maintenance Superintedent,
assisted in building a dam on one of your wild rivers, to provide flood
contol and electric power for your people.

My wife has seen and viewed extensively your lovely cities of Rio De
Janiero and Sao Paulo , and has been taken with the friendliness of your
citizens, and the delicious variety, and wholeomeness of your national
dishes, many of which we have adopted in our own home. My father's
admiration for those native Brazilians who worked with him on the dam
project was so sincere and so profound that I find that even today, and
even considering your foolish excesses here on this list, I retain a
real feeling for the Brazilan people as a whole.

My involvement with a Brazilian Merchant Captain who built his own
schooner, and sailed it into the Caribbean, to offer it as a pleasure
craft in service to those who wished to take short cruises in local
waters was the high point of my last trip into the area. I was amazed
and gratified at the depth of this gentleman's marine knowledge as well
as his ablity and willingness to share it. But more to the point of
this message, I was most gratified at his quiet and very engaging
manner. I am privaledged to have met this gentleman and still maintain
a correspondence with him which has been much to my advantage.

I can assure you, that Brazil will not in my eyes be diminshed one jot,
by your uncontrolled raving on this list, but I must wonder at what
those other citizens of Nova Roma must think of Brazil, who have only
you to measure your country's ideals and attitude by.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	27 Mar 2002 17:49:31 -0300

On Wed, 2002-03-27 at 17:15, MarcusAudens@webtv.net wrote:
> M. V. Limitanus;
>
> What you personnally have gained through this "status" is the
> micronation of Nova Roma. Your idea of universal human rights extends
> to virtual anarchy, as you have blatantly ignored the past proven abuses
> of such a system. Now it is clear that you wish to transfer the growing
> importance of a micronation, founded in the U.S. to your own control,
> for the purpose of enhancing your own importance, rather than assisting
> NR to become a strong independent nation owing allegiance to no-one, but
> offering mutually returned friendship to all.
>
> You consistantly attack the U.S. for it's laws, policies, procedures and
> privaledges, even though in the past, and currently you have provided
> nothing, beyond your unsupported and vicious bashing of my country as
> good reason and advantage of your attacks to NR.
>
> I ask that you immediately stop such unsupported and radical abuse of
> another culture and find another way to peddle your hatred of those who
> endeavor in so many ways to make the world a better place. I am well
> aware that the U.S. has made mistakes in the past, but I am also aware
> that other country's policies have led them into an attempt at world or
> continental domination, while the U.S. has throughout history,
> consistantly eschewed those tactics. I am further well aware that some
> country's internal policies have led to widespread depression and
> financial instability. However, my detailed undersanding of these
> problems is not such that I can criticize a national entity, even should
> I wish to do so.
>
> I have nothing but admiration for the citizens of Brazil whom I have met
> (with the exception of yourself) thier ideas, thier skills, and the
> beauty of thier cities and the majestic sweep of it's wild and beautiful
> jungles and rivers, which I have been pleased to see in detail through
> the eyes of my Father, whose efforts as a Maintenance Superintedent,
> assisted in building a dam on one of your wild rivers, to provide flood
> contol and electric power for your people.
>
> My wife has seen and viewed extensively your lovely cities of Rio De
> Janiero and Sao Paulo , and has been taken with the friendliness of your
> citizens, and the delicious variety, and wholeomeness of your national
> dishes, many of which we have adopted in our own home. My father's
> admiration for those native Brazilians who worked with him on the dam
> project was so sincere and so profound that I find that even today, and
> even considering your foolish excesses here on this list, I retain a
> real feeling for the Brazilan people as a whole.
>
> My involvement with a Brazilian Merchant Captain who built his own
> schooner, and sailed it into the Caribbean, to offer it as a pleasure
> craft in service to those who wished to take short cruises in local
> waters was the high point of my last trip into the area. I was amazed
> and gratified at the depth of this gentleman's marine knowledge as well
> as his ablity and willingness to share it. But more to the point of
> this message, I was most gratified at his quiet and very engaging
> manner. I am privaledged to have met this gentleman and still maintain
> a correspondence with him which has been much to my advantage.
>
> I can assure you, that Brazil will not in my eyes be diminshed one jot,
> by your uncontrolled raving on this list, but I must wonder at what
> those other citizens of Nova Roma must think of Brazil, who have only
> you to measure your country's ideals and attitude by.

Vale,

it seems you are still not aware that I am not Brazilian, but Alsatian
i.e. french nationality, german culture. I felled in love with Brasil
just as your father did and decided to settle here.

I don't care less for US laws as long as they don't affect my nation.
If the US citizens are happy with their laws keep them. But NR should
not be bond to any macronation, if the laws of a specific macronation
are limiting NR's freedom of action then this activity should be
relocated in another less limiting (on that specific point) nation.

If it's the incoporation of NR as a US non-profit organization that
represents the limitation: just drop it. If there is a macronation where
it would not limit us incorporate there, if their is none such
macronation: don't incorporate anywhere. The profit is usually only for
the citizens of that specific macronation, not for the organization.
There are many non-incorporated organization that work very well and
produce much more than NR.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	Taxes and universalism was Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	27 Mar 2002 17:33:01 -0300

On Wed, 2002-03-27 at 16:03, pompeia_cornelia wrote:
> ---Salve Manius:
>
> I know as Canadian, I could go through the motion of getting Nova
> Roma, Canada Orientalis Provincia declared a nonprofit organization,
> and we could thereby have the privilege of deducting our taxes and
> donations.
>

Even if paying directly to the USA ?

> Have you looked into doing the same in Brazil? You might find that
> you can do the same thing.
>

Perhaps if we pay taxes to the provincial treasure, not for paying to
the USA certainly not.

> Mani, I know you don't like the language policy, but can we refrain
> from escalating this into a housekeeping bee on all the woes, faults,
> policies and pet peeves about the Unites States of America?
>

It is not about the USA, and it is not about the language policy, it
seems that at least for this point we can decide whatever we want to.

It is about previous censure, which was stated to be a necessary
consequence (I still doubt it) of the existing US jurisprudence.
I really don't care if the US (or UK) laws are good or bad as long
as it does not affect my nation.

If we were incorporated in Brazil for the sole profit of the NR citizens
that are also residing in Brazil, I would say the exact same thing :
discrimination.

> Nova Roma had to start somewhere, and as it stands, our founders were
> American citizens. Let's remember they founded Nova Roma..that's
> what's most important. With respect, Mani,you are starting to steer
> off course, and I think it is from a false assumption that the
> language policy was an attempt at occidental imperialism....a notion
> that I have tried to disspell.

No it is not occidental imperialism, it is just selfishness of the
actual majority of NR.

I am very gratefull to the founders of NR and perfectly understand they
incorporated NR in the USA.
But this does not mean it could not, or should not be changed if it is
better for NR (not necessarely for the NR citizens residing in the USA)

> We are all ROMANS in spirit and community. Let us all remember that,
> please. Lets do something to sit and attempt to work out the kinks
> in our system, and dispense with trying to analyze any one countries'
> macronational features.

If it seemed I did, I must have erred somewhere. I really was analysing
NR, not the USA.
I would like to see a universal free NR, not a Roma which is
subordinated to ANY macronation.
In the free (from freedom) software world this problem was usually
solved by not being incorporated anywhere and a LOT of good work is done
like that, nobody feeling discriminated, no activities being restrained
by limiting/oppresive national laws.
This is the model I had in mind.

Salve,

Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: report
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:42:01 -0500 (EST)

Praefectus Manius Constantinius Serapio;

Thank you for your update. With your permission I will forward your
comments to the author / designer of the documents to which you refer,
under my name.

I have recieved your notebook, and was extremely impressed by it. What
a detailed and exacting amount of work!!!! I will shortly be editing it
and putting the material on the Egressus List for those who may be
interested, and in the Egressus Archives as well. With your permission,
I will also forward selected material to the Sodalitas Militarium for
it's use there.

Thank you so much for the material and the effort. I am certainly aware
that of the three persons I selected for the Praefectus Positions in
Egressus, your selection, was the best that I have currently made. You
have succeeded where others have only promised, and you have done so,
while still involved in your country's military efforts. Not only the
above but you have found a way to be of assistance to your Province as
well. I honor you for your efforts and your dedication, and I am
pleased indeed to call you both friend and colleague. As a Senator of
Nova Roma and Praefectus Fabrum of the Egressus, I am pleased to bestow
upon you the title of Dominus (master) to precede your present title of
Praefectus (Dominus Praefectus) which in the Egressus will give you
seniority over the other Praefecti appointed. This honor is little
enough that I can do--would be that I could reward you with gold for you
are worth your wieght, in such, to me!!

Respectfully, and In Appreciation for your Excellent Efforts;

Marcus Minucius Audens;

Praefectus Fabrum -- Sodalitas Egressus -- Nova Roma

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[novaroma] Latin
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:34:03 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I have recently recieved a number of very encouraging and quite frankly
flattering E-Mails. To those who were so kind, I send a most sincere
second thank you. However, your very kind messages set me to thinking,
about Nova Roma and what I could further do to forward our micronation
to her goals.

It struck me that those of us who contribute in a positive way to the
Republic, in those areas where we have given knowledge and skills help
the Republic along immensely. However, those who contribute positively
by attempting new endeavors not only forward Nova Roma, but also help
themselves as well.

With this thought, came the idea, that perhaps there was a way to help
NR, and myself at the same time. While entertaining this thought, I
came upon two books in a used book store for a pittance, the first of
which tells the story of a family in Pompeii, something of thier daily
life and some of the items of Roman culture in which they indulged. The
second book is devoted more to the stories of Rome and her history.
However, these books are a little different, in that both are primers
for the beginner in learning the Latin Language:

--Cambridge Latin Course, Unit 1, The North American Third Edition, Eds.
E. Phinney and P.E. Bell, Cambridge University Press, New York, 1992.

--Oxford Latin Course, Part 1, M. Balme and J. Morewood, Oxford
University Press, Oxford--G.B., 1994.

I have debated on this consideration for some time, due to the fact that
I am not skilled at languages, in fact they have, throughout my
schooling, been my nemisis. However, I have finally proposed to venture
on to this effort, hopefully with the assistance of the citizens of Nova
Roma.

I intend to study thoroughly each of the stages and chapters of each
text book, and then I propose to write a simple story on this list
encompassing what I have learned in the applicable stage / chapter
together with an English translation as required. This way, I hope to
strengthen the idea that the English translation is a necessary vehicle
for the present day use of a multi-cultural List, as well as perhaps
learn something new.

However, I will need the assistance of my many friends in Nova Roma to
make a success of this effort. I will need thier encouragement, and
their ideas as well as thier assistance in this endeavor, since it
encompasses a new learning effort and one in which my formal schooling
in both Spanish and German has proven to be my weak point in academic
prowess.

I hope that my idea will not discommode anyone to any extent, and will
perhaps and hopefully provide some small variation to the constant diet
of political conjecture on this list. Perhaps when I feel more
comfortable (if that time ever comes) I will even aspire to membership
in the Sodalitas Latinius. Thank you for your very kind attention to
this post and for your patience in listening to my idea.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:03:02 -0500

Salvete,

"A foreign oppresive country should not dictate the laws of our nation,
that is what our declaration of independance is about. The USA, by their
laws should not be able to force us to disrescpect basic human rights
as freedom of speach.

Manius Villius Limitanus"

Much has been said regarding the difficulty in overcoming
"macro-national" differences on this list, but I fail to see how we can
do that when individuals insist on slandering other civies nation,
especially in such an absolutely baseless fashion. It is rude,
thoughtless and unnecessary, and I'm sure better means can be found to
support an argument than hurling invective.

To Manius Villius Limitanus I would inquire where this unceasing
hostility towards the United Sates stems from. Referring to the United
States (even by implication) as "oppressive country" is utterly
ridiculous. If you chose to examine history a bit closer, you might see
that the United States was the first nation to adopt a Bill of Rights
guaranteeing freedom of speech. In fact most European nations did not
adopt similar principles until well into the 20th century. Furthermore,
libel laws, designed to protect the reputation of an individual from
slander, do not constitute a violation of free speech.

I ask you to please consider toning down your criticism of
macro-national policy and keep your arguments focused on Nova Roma.

Valete,


C. Minucius Hadrianus
Quaestor
Lictor Curiatus
Legate of Massachusetts
Scriba Propraetoris, Nova Britannia


ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List Language Policy
From:	Gnaeus Marius <gnmariusasia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:25:48 -0800 (PST)

--- Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-03-27 at 13:03, L. Cornelius Sulla
> wrote:
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > Manius, when are you going to understand that we
> are incorporated as a
> > not-for-profit corporation in the United States?
> This has been
> > pointed out a number of time by myself and others.
>
> > We are bound by
> > the laws of the United States and the Great State
> of Maine. We are
> > bound by the tax laws, the applicable federal laws
> and the applicable
> > state laws that affect Nova Roma.
> > I am going to try to say this as nicely as
> possible, Manius, because
> > it seems you just don't grasp this concept despite
> the fact it has
> > been explained to you numerous times. This
> information has not been
> > hidden from you, it has been in the Tabularium
> (articles of
> > incorporation) for a very long time. If its not
> something you are
> > willing to live with then you should move on. But
> we are not going to
> > risk our incorporation status and our legal
> standing because you dont
> > like it.
>
>
> What do we gain through this status ?
>
> I don't see anything for NR. This status only
> reduces our independance
> and forces us to disrespect elementary human rights.
> It seems that for
> the NR nation it would be better to be incorparated
> in another country
> or not at all, like Debian choosed.
>
> Is there something in the USA that allows US
> citizens to deduct their NR
> taxes from their IRS?
>
> If yes this is another discrimination against non-US
> citizens which
> should pay much reduced taxes.
>
> If yes this is another indication of the US nature
> of NR opposed to the
> universal aspiration it claims to have.
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
>>
Salve,

The 'advantage' to the status referred to above is
that NR, as a 'money-receiving' group, is allowed to
operate under protection of US law. In the event that
someone has a snit, and sues NR in a US court, we are
protected, to a certain extent, by our
'not-for-profit' status...as long as the books are
straight. Without that protection, the USG could order
NR(or at least the leadership) to 'cease and
desist'(which, admittedly, they could do anyway; but
probably won't).

As NR is not a 'charitable' organization, no
'donations' are deductable from US tax write-offs.

AFAIK, there are no real advantages to US-resident
cives vs NR being a US-registered entity.

Further, whatever restrictions the US places on
'corporate entities' here, they are generally a lot
less restrictive than elsewhere.




=====
Cn Marius Asia

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