Subject:	[novaroma] Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List Moderation}
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:54:28 -0000

It was no coincidence that your praise of secession in Nova Roma came
shortly after a real secession had already occured. Secession is by it's
very nature the rending of the state. Therefore, you have advocated the
ripping assunder of Nova Roma.

Is it 'Romanitas' to join a voluntary union such as NR, only to seek to
destroy it? Since the Constituion does allow for restriction of speech
which presents a 'clear and present danger' to the Republic, and since
advocacy of state destruction does qualify as such, I can only conclude
that you were indeed in violation of list guidelines and deserve a
moderated status. In fact, that you are even here at all is proof of Nova
Roma's benevolence to you. Far from being "censored", you have been
treated too leniently. I further suggest to you that you show
your 'Romanitas' by 'seceeding' yourself out of NR and confine yourself
to the SVR, of which I understand you are a citizen.

To the current acting list moderator, and Praetors, or Aediles, or
whomever ends up as custodian of this list, I would like to suggest that
Limitanus be kept on Moderated Status, indefinitely.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: New Ludi Section at NovaRoma.org
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <pokrock@aol.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:02:38 -0000

Salve,

--- In novaroma@y..., Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
>
> Salvete cives et amici,
>
> The aging Ludi section of NovaRoma.org has been updated and
remodelled. For
> the latest information on the comming celebrations to be hosted by
the
> aediles of Nova Roma you can now visit the new site at
> http://novaroma.org/ludi/.

Very well done. Perhaps I can come up with something to enter in the
Cerialia Art Contest. An artist I am not, but participation would be
fun.

Pax,

Quintus Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: With Sadness
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:02:47 -0000

I too wish the best for Senator Cato at this time. I remember when
my own father died. My sincerest thoghts are with his family right
now.

Gaius Cassius Nerva








--- In novaroma@y..., "otto_von_sitter" <otto_von_sitter@y...> wrote:
> My condolences are also with him. I know a small bit of what he's
> going through as not that long ago I also lost a family member. My
> thoughts are with you, Cato.
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>
> --- In novaroma@y..., "luciuspompeius" <danielovi@y...> wrote:
> > I wish to express sincerely my condolences for this very sad
moment
> > for him.
> > Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> >
> >
> > --- In novaroma@y..., "pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@h...> wrote:
> > > Salvete Omnes:
> > >
> > >
> > > I have received word from Senator Cato that his father passed
on
> > > yesterday morning at approximately 5 am EST.
> > >
> > > This situation is most certainly a rough road; when I look at
my
> > > relationship with my own father...how he has positively
> influenced
> > my
> > > life and outlook, his support, his humour, his love, I can
gather
> > > atleast a partial glimpse of how Senator Cato and family must
be
> > > feeling right now.
> > >
> > > I thought it appropriate to make the community aware of this
turn
> > of
> > > events.
> > >
> > > May our thoughts, prayers and offerings continue to be with
Cato
> > and
> > > his family during this difficult time.
> > >
> > > Bene valete,
> > > Pompeia Cornelia
> > >
> > >
> > > B

Subject:	[novaroma] Oath for my Office
From:	"Alexander Solaris Draco" <kaezar@ciaoweb.it>
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 01:23:27 +0200

AVETE!

EGO, ALEXANDER SOLARIS DRACONTEVS (ALESSANDRO A. MALATO DI S.MARGHERITA)
HOC IPSO FACTO SOLLEMNITER IVRO NOVAE ROMAE DECVS DEFENDERE ET SEMPER PRO
NOVAE ROMAE POPVLO ATQVE SENATV AGERE.
VT NOVAE ROMAE MAGISTRATVS EGO ALEXANDER SOLARIS DRACONTEVS (ALESSANDRO A.
MALATO DI S.MARGHERITA)ROMAE DEOS ET DEAS COLERE IVRO IN OMNIBVS PVBLICAE
VITAE TEMPORIBVS ATQVE ROMANAS VIRTVTES PVBLICA PRIVATAQVE VITA PERSEQVI.

EGO, ALEXANDER SOLARIS DRACONTEVS (ALESSANDRO A. MALATO DI S.MARGHERITA),
ROMANAM RELIGIONEM FAVERE ET DEFENDERE IVRO VT NOVAE ROMAE REIPVBLICAE
RELIGIONEM ET NVMQVAM AGERE ITA VT EIVS STATVS PVBLICAE RELIGIONIS ALIQVID
DETRIMENTI CAPIAT.

PRAETEREA EGO ALEXANDER SOLARIS DRACONTEVS (ALESSANDRO A. MALATO DI
S.MARGHERITA)IVRO QVAM OPTIME FVNGI OFFICIVM LEGATI MILITARIVM ET ARANAE
ITALIA PROVINCIA.

MEO NOVAE ROMAE CIVIS HONORE ET CORAM POPVLI ROMANI DEIS ATQVE DEABVS ET
EORVM VOLVNTATE ET FAVORE, MVNVSCVLVM LEGATI MILITARIVM ET ARANAE ACCIPIO
VNA CVM IVRIBVS, PRIVILEGIIS. MVNERA ATQVE OFFICIA QVAE MEVM MVNVS
COMPORTAT.
IN ITALIA PROVINCIA KAL. APR. MMDCCLV AB VRBE CONDITA.


I, Alexander Solaris Draconteus (Alessandro A. Malato di S.Margherita) do
hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in
the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
-As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Alexander Solaris Draconteus (Alessandro
A. Malato di S.Margherita) swear to honor the Gods
and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues
in my public and private life.

- I, Alexander Solaris Draconteus (Alessandro A. Malato di S.Margherita)
swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova
Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion.

- I, Alexander Solaris Draconteus (Alessandro A. Malato di
S.Margherita)swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Alexander Solaris Draconteus (Alessandro A. Malato di S.Margherita)
further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office
of Legatus Militarium et Aranae to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman People and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Legatus Militarium et Aranae and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
In ITALIA Provincia Kalendae APRILIS MMDCCLV ab Vrbe condita


Valete Omnes !


Alexander Solaris Dracontevs

Subject:	[novaroma] Tangent alert!
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <pokrock@aol.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:41:31 -0000

Salve,

Consul Marcus Octavius Germanicus has proposed a new law to remove
terminate the office of Curator Sermonis and place the moderation of
the list and other official Nova Roman communications to scriba
appointed by the Praetors. Quaestor Quintus Fabius Maximus belives
that the proper place would be under the Aediles. I prefer to have
the office remain elected but with laws enacted to safeguard against
abuse of office.

Whether the office is under the eye of the Praetors, Aediles, Senate,
Consuls, Censors, Quaestors,some poor rogator that wasn't there to
defend himself from having this duty foisted upon him, or remains
elected, is really inconsequential to me. What is important is
safeguards and recourse in face of abuse of office. If the lex that
Consul Octavius has safeguards and recourse in it I would vote in
favor regardless of the form the function of moderation takes.

Going off on a tangent about past acts isn't going to help the Consul
work on the law (I admit my own guilt on that point). He didn't
have to ask for input, he could have said, here is the law, debate
and vote. Whatever the final form of the proposed lex, will it be
perfect? No, but then utopia is never a viable option.

Pax,

Quintus Cassius Calvus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Attacks Against Nova Roma
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	31 Mar 2002 18:07:19 -0300

Em Dom, 2002-03-31 às 17:35, MarcusAudens@webtv.net escreveu:
> Have a care Limitanus!!!!
>
> I am at once a Magistrate, ProConsul, and Senator in the present
> government of Nova Roma. I have pledged my Oath to the elected
> Magistrates with this government.
>
> While I consider myself part and parcel of this Consulship, and the
> government of Nova Roma, bound by my Oath, and elected by the vote of
> the Citizens of Nova Roma, I do NOT see myself as an Oligarch,
> Tyrannist, or as a Fascist!!!!! I consider such an accusation to be a
> personal insult directed at both myself, and those who have elected me,
> or appointed me to my current positions of honor.
>

Who called you anything like that?
We were speaking about terminology and categories in Aristotles sense.
Did you read Platon or Aristotle for the definitions and Polybius for
his analysis of the Roman system ?
I feel that the tyrannic/monarchic part is absent from our constitution
since the Imperium of the consuls is very reduced. But we are very near
to the two other part of the mixed government. And I certainly am very
happy with this in our reconstruction.

> While I fully understand that one who will bash another's culture from
> without that culture, and one who will accuse without proof or even
> viable intent, the elected Magistrates of this Consulship, and rail
> against the honesty and forthrightness of the Senators elected by the
> Citizens (or appointed in some cases by extraorinary efforts for Nova
> Roma on thier part) of Nova Roma, will not appreciate honor in any other
> individual, I tell you now that I consider such unsupported accusations
> to be insults directed personnally to me, and which come under the
> meaning of my Oath to direct my efforts against, in defense of Nova
> Roma.
>
> Your agreement or disagreement with this view means little to me, in
> light of your past demogguery, and I now inform you that as a result of
> your last comments, I must by my Oath regard you as a person rising
> against Nova Roma, without proof, past effort or viable future value.
>

Please senator read the posts you are reacting to.

Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Romanitas, was Re: Secession from NR?
From:	David Braun <barbarrosa66@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:04:07 -0800 (PST)

Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@inwave.com> wrote:
Ave Venator, et Salvete Omnes,

I agree with the Venator' comments, Let not bickering and petty squabbling poison the e-waves, be of good cheer! the Ides have passed and we live! Mars calls you to strive against the foe, not one another!

Yours in Strength and Honor!

Flavius Cordius Sulla



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send greetings for Easter, Passover

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Herculaneum Lost Library Fund
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@bconnex.net>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:12:10 -0500

Salvete cives et amici,

This topic is being discussed on the Muses list, although I think this is a
fascinating topic that disserves more attention, and therefore I am
presenting this to the Main list.

In the ancient city of Herculaneum, archaeologists are exploring the remains
of a villa that once belonged to the fatherinlaw of Julius Caesar. Within
this villa, they have come across an ancient library containing about 2000
scrolls of ancient writings preserved by the eruption of Vesuvius. These
scrolls are unreadable to the naked eye due to the damage caused by the
eruption. However, computer technology developed by NASA is now being used
to make out the ink on these damaged writings making it possible to read the
contents of the scrolls.

Most of the scrolls that have been found are on Greek philosophy. What is
very exciting about this discovery is that archaeologists are rediscovering
works that have been lost for thousands of years, such as writings on
philosophy by Epicurus. If this is not wonderful enough, archaeologists have
also found the doors to a seperate room that is part of this library and
this portion is larger. Archaeologists believe it is quite likely this room
contains more scrolls, possibly even more than what was currently found
(over 2000). This means that there is a chance of more lost writings being
discovered! They believe that this portion of the villa may even contain
missing volumes of Livyıs History of Rome, or lost works by Sophocles or
Aristotle!

There is a down side to all this. The villa is being threatened by flooding.
There is also a great chance that future earthquakes and eruptions might
destroy this particular excavated villa. To save this villa would require a
very expensive excavation of $30 million. Italian authorities have refused
to fund this project, and I can't blame them. They have many other sites of
great importance to look after. International support it now being gathered,
and hopefully if all goes well, this villa and its extremely valuable
contents will be saved.

Due to the cultural importance of these scrolls, I think it would be
fantastic if Nova Roma could look into supporting the excavation. Now we
clearly cannot make a large contribution, nothing close to the $30 million
needed, although we can do something and this is important. Think how much
we could learn about our culture if a lost volume of Livyıs History of Rome
is rediscovered. If we wish to recreate Roman culture in Nova Roma and the
modern world, it only makes sense to help this project in any way we
possibly can. We owe it to Rome to set up our own small fund, perhaps
drawing from our treasury and donations, to contribute something to this
project of great cultural significance.

If I have sparked your interest you can go to the following links to learn
more:

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/index.cfm?id=332482002

http://www.discover.com/apr_01/featscrolls.html

http://www.byu.edu/news/releases/archive01/Mar/Herculaneum/photos.html

http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/classics//philodemus/philhome.htm


Valete,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
--

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tangent alert!
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@bconnex.net>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:23:05 -0500

Salve Quintus Cassius Calvus,

>Quintus Cassius Calvus at pokrock@aol.com wrote:
>
> Consul Marcus Octavius Germanicus has proposed a new law to remove
> terminate the office of Curator Sermonis and place the moderation of
> the list and other official Nova Roman communications to scriba
> appointed by the Praetors. Quaestor Quintus Fabius Maximus belives
> that the proper place would be under the Aediles. I prefer to have
> the office remain elected but with laws enacted to safeguard against
> abuse of office.
>
> Whether the office is under the eye of the Praetors, Aediles, Senate,
> Consuls, Censors, Quaestors,some poor rogator that wasn't there to
> defend himself from having this duty foisted upon him, or remains
> elected, is really inconsequential to me. What is important is
> safeguards and recourse in face of abuse of office. If the lex that
> Consul Octavius has safeguards and recourse in it I would vote in
> favor regardless of the form the function of moderation takes.

I was wary at first at the elimination of the Curator Sermonis, although the
consul convinced me of the benefits. =)

However, abuse is something Marcus Octavius' proposal does not protect
against. We will not be moving forward by just eliminating the Curator
Sermonis and placing the duties of that office on another magistrate. Abuse
is something that will take place if a lex is not created to define exactly
what official has what authority with the policies on this list.

We need to define what the limitations are for the scriba assigned to
management of this list.

We need to define a procedure to properly censor a citizen who is abusing
list policies.

We need to define the job of list management in a lex down to the last
possible detail.

To much freedom in management of this list is not going to be in the best
interests of Nova Roma. Like I have said numerous times in the past, this
list is the heart of Nova Roma, we must be **extremely** careful in
everything we choose to do regarding itıs management. A slip up could prove
quite messy for the efficient operation of our nation.

Vale,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
--

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tangent alert!
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:49:01 -0800

Avete Omnes,

I believe our Praetors will be able to define the limitations of their
own scriba via Praetor Edict. I have complete confidence in our
Praetors to be able to define the role, scope and responsibility of
their subordinates.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul

Amulius Claudius Petrus wrote:

>
> Salve Quintus Cassius Calvus,
>
> >Quintus Cassius Calvus at pokrock@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Consul Marcus Octavius Germanicus has proposed a new law to remove
> > terminate the office of Curator Sermonis and place the moderation of
>
> > the list and other official Nova Roman communications to scriba
> > appointed by the Praetors. Quaestor Quintus Fabius Maximus belives
> > that the proper place would be under the Aediles. I prefer to have
> > the office remain elected but with laws enacted to safeguard against
>
> > abuse of office.
> >
> > Whether the office is under the eye of the Praetors, Aediles,
> Senate,
> > Consuls, Censors, Quaestors,some poor rogator that wasn't there to
> > defend himself from having this duty foisted upon him, or remains
> > elected, is really inconsequential to me. What is important is
> > safeguards and recourse in face of abuse of office. If the lex that
>
> > Consul Octavius has safeguards and recourse in it I would vote in
> > favor regardless of the form the function of moderation takes.
>
> I was wary at first at the elimination of the Curator Sermonis,
> although the
> consul convinced me of the benefits. =)
>
> However, abuse is something Marcus Octavius' proposal does not protect
>
> against. We will not be moving forward by just eliminating the Curator
>
> Sermonis and placing the duties of that office on another magistrate.
> Abuse
> is something that will take place if a lex is not created to define
> exactly
> what official has what authority with the policies on this list.
>
> We need to define what the limitations are for the scriba assigned to
> management of this list.
>
> We need to define a procedure to properly censor a citizen who is
> abusing
> list policies.
>
> We need to define the job of list management in a lex down to the last
>
> possible detail.
>
> To much freedom in management of this list is not going to be in the
> best
> interests of Nova Roma. Like I have said numerous times in the past,
> this
> list is the heart of Nova Roma, we must be **extremely** careful in
> everything we choose to do regarding itıs management. A slip up could
> prove
> quite messy for the efficient operation of our nation.
>
> Vale,
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
>
> Canada Orientalis Website:
> www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT


>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Tangent alert!
From:	"pjane64" <pcassia@janeraeburn.com>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:59:40 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., "quintuscassiuscalvus" <pokrock@a...> wrote:
> What is important is
> safeguards and recourse in face of abuse of office.

Quintus Cassius speaks truly. The other important consideration for the
lex in question is doing whatever is in our power to make sure list
moderators are people of good judgment and sufficient free time to do
the job. The task of the Curator Sermonis is often not an easy one,
given the tendency of some to rehash past grievances rather than
working for a better future.

Patricia Cassia

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tangent alert!
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@texas.net>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:06:22 -0600

Salvete

First, let me say that I agree entirely that old news is quite
tangential to this particular discussion.

Second, let me point out a misconception that some seem to have.

> Whether the office is under the eye of the Praetors, Aediles, Senate,
> Consuls, Censors, Quaestors,some poor rogator that wasn't there to
> defend himself from having this duty foisted upon him, or remains
> elected,...

The praetores, aediles, consules, censores, quaestores, and rogatores
*are* elected. And, the Senate is mostly elected, albeit indirectly.
Octavius Consul's current proposal would still leave the duty of list
moderation in the hands of elected officials.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Ta i quetes Quenyanen séya vanima

Subject:	[novaroma] Festival of Venus
From:	"pjane64" <pcassia@janeraeburn.com>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:22:07 -0000

Since Graecus is unavailable, I will post a little information on this
holiday (which is also my birthday!).

Ovid declares that women make offerings to Fortuna Virilis on the
Veneralia, particularly at the baths, where men expose their manly
parts, and also offer incense so that men will not see any flaw or
blemish they might have. Confusingly enough, according to Scullard,
this was also the festival of Venus Verticordia (Venus, Changer of
Hearts), an icon of respectable matronhood with attributes of modesty
and concord. A temple was dedicated to her on this day in 114 BC, to
atone for a case of incest among the Vestals.

I'm sure you can all think of a couple of pleasant ways to celebrate
Venus in your daily life. Enjoy!

If you wish to further invite divine influence in support of the sexual
and romantic side of life, here are my suggestions:

-- Cleanse your sacred space - altars, lararium, and especially any
statue of Venus or Fortuna you may own. (The Praenestine calendar
refers to an annual cleaning of the Fortuna Virilis statue.) Redecorate
the area with fresh flowers.

-- Take special care in your bathing and dressing, and present the
world your most attractive self in honor of Venus.

-- Offer appreciation to the ones you love, not only marital or
romantic partners but friends, children and relatives, and make
offerings for their well-being.

-- Ask Venus' aid in acting with love, harmony and honor throughout the
year ahead.

Patricia Cassia
Priestess of Minerva

Subject:	[novaroma] Religio Update: Collegium Pontificum Vote
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:20:49 EST

Salvete Omnes,

I am pleased to announce that a vote will be going on this week in the
Collegium Pontificum. The voting should be completed by Tuesday, April 8, and
results will be posted then.

The items on the Agenda will be:

ITEM I - FLAMEN APPLICATION
by Paternus

ITEM II - VESTAL CANDIDATE
by Lucia Ambrosia Valeria


ITEM III - SALII CANDIDATE
by Amulius Claudius Petrus


ITEM IV - PONTIFF CANDIDATE
> by Antonia Cornelia Octavia

ITEM V - PRIESTHOOD OATH TEXT

(Proposed oaths to be taken by new Priesthood, similar to the oaths now taken
by Nova Roma magistrates.)


ITEM VI - PRIESTHOOD GUIDELINE TEXT REVISION

( Proposed text revision for website Priesthood guidelines, mostly to shorten
them and make them more 'user friendly'.)

ITEM VII - PONTIFF MINIMUM STANDARDS

(Minimum standards of participation for members of the Collegium Pontificum.)


Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Religio Update: Collegium Pontificum Vote
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@bconnex.net>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:07:45 -0500

Salvete Pontifex Maximus Marcus Cassius Julianus et cives,

>Marcus Cassius Julianus at cassius622@aol.com wrote:
>
> ITEM III - SALII CANDIDATE
> by Amulius Claudius Petrus

I am delighted to see that my application will be voted upon by the
honourable Collegium Pontificum. I shall definitely perform a sacrifice
tonight for pater Mars. Regardless of the out come of my application, I am
very happy to have had this opportunity to strengthen my knowledge and
spiritual relationship with Mars. If I am to be a Salii priest may it be by
the will of Mars and all the gods of Roma.

Valete,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
--

Subject:	[novaroma] File - NovaRomaList.txt
From:	novaroma@yahoogroups.com
Date:	1 Apr 2002 09:33:19 -0000

GUIDELINES FOR THE NOVA ROMA MAILING LIST

By Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonem (List moderator)
(with thanks to Patricia Cassia for the original text)

This list is for you, and I see my role as trying to facilitate a place where we can all share information and get to know one another. These guidelines are open to change, and to your suggestions. Today the list has more than 350 people on it. As we've grown, we have had to adjust the way we communicate so as to make electronic "rooom" for everyone. This set of guidelines represents another effort in that direction. It is not a response to any one person or posting.

I.The list is set up so that replies will automatically be sent to the entire list. Please keep this in mind when replying. If your reply is only intended for one member, consider sending the reply privately and not to the list as a whole.

II.Agreement and support for one another are always welcome. However, if you are simply saying "yes!" or "me too," without adding more information to the thread, consider doing so in private e-mail.

III.If you must criticize another's post, consider doing so in private e-mail. If the person has made a genuine error, this allows him or her to save face and apologize for misbehavior or correct misinformation, rather than having misdeeds pointed out publicly.

IV.It is entirely appropriate to disagree publicly with another's stated views, or with the actions of Nova Roma's Senate, magistrates and other officials. Nova Roma is an organization of individuals from a wide variety of nations, religions, backgrounds and political viewpoints, and it is only reasonable that our views should differ.

V.When expressing disagreement, the following steps are recommended:

* Express respect for the person and faith in his or her good intentions.

* Point out any themes or ideas with which you do agree.

* Express your own opinion pleasantly, with respect for the rights of others to believe differently from you. On the Internet, strong language does not enhance the effectiveness of your communication. It simply makes you look strident and overbearing.

* Offer factual information where possible, backed up with sources. Quiet statements of fact win respect from others following your conversation.

* Offer sources of factual information (books, web links, etc.) that might be of interest to others interested in the topic.

* Use humor when appropriate (i.e. when it helps lighten the tone of a discussion without being aimed at other list members)

VI.If a thread or posting on the list makes you angry or sad, consider not responding at all, or doing so in private e-mail. If you do decide to respond to something that has pressed your emotional buttons, do not press Send right after writing your response. Let it sit in your Out box for 24 hours. Then look at it again, and consider whether this response is the one that best enhances your own honor and advances the knowledge of your fellow list members.

VII.Remember that there are people on this list who are under 18. Profanity is unnecessary and genrally unwelcome. Sexual references should be mild at worst.

VIII.Name-calling and personal attacks are inappropriate. Expressions of disagreement should be confined to criticizing the words or ideas of another, rather than the person. You are always free to disagree with an idea, but please do not turn an ideological debate into a personal fight.

IX.During the time leading up to elections (held each December, and occasionally at other times if offices become vacant), this list is also one of the public forums through which candidates express their views and present their qualifications to the populace. All of the above strictures governing appropriate behavior remain in place and apply to all candidates and their supporters.

X.Avoid giving out your home address and/or phone number on this list. You do not know all the people on here, and while it would be pleasant to believe we are all good-hearted and sane, you cannot trust in that.

XI. All posts to the list should be accompanied by an English translation if they are written in another language. If you are unable to write in English, or uncomfortable posting in English, please let me know and I will be more than happy to facilitate your pairing with a translator who can help you to do so. Posts in multiple languages are MORE than welcome, as long as an English translation is included somewhere therein. Please note there is no penalty for violating this policy on a "first time" basis, as it is assumed that anyone doing so is simply in need of assistance and not consciously choosing to violate list policy.

XII.The topic of this list is ancient Rome and Nova Roma. Off-topic postings include:

* Discussions of macronational politics, except when they shed light on an ancient Roman subject or in some way relate to Nova Roma.

* Bashing of any religion. It is OK to discuss your own disagreements with various faiths, but not to disrespect the rights of others to believe in those faiths.

* Personal attacks of any kind. Be mindful to keep disagreements on the issues and not on personalities.

* Arguments on certain well-worn issues that are contentious in modern society (examples: abortion, gun control), except as they relate to our topic.

* Jokes that aren't related to the topic or to current discussions on the list

* Virus warnings and other urban legends.

* All commercial postings, except from members of the Macellum, Nova Roma's marketplace (and even these should be "low-key" - see below).

XIII.The best postings include those which help us better understand some aspect of Roman history, or which offer ideas and energy to the furtherance of Nova Roma's goals. On-topic postings include, but are not limited to:

* Anything related to ancient history. This is broadly interpreted to include religion, cooking, gardening, family life, politics, military, costuming, medicine and many other topics.

* Anything that has the effect of building community among list members (announcements of local events, planning get-togethers, sharing occasional personal milestones).

* Information of interest to Nova Romans (links, news, tourism information for Roman sites, updates from political or religious bodies, regional or Sodalitas projects).

* Low-key advertisements for Macellum members. A low-key advertisement might include a signature file, a single announcement of a new business, or a mention of one's business in response to a relevant thread on the list.

XIV.The Curatrix Sermonem has imperium to govern this list, but prefers to encourage positive interaction rather than punish negative behavior. In the case of a poster whose actions violate these guidelines or otherwise disrupt the peace, the Curatrix Sermonem will choose from the following list of escalating actions:

i.General note to the list, not directed at anyone personally, but mentioning the behavior in question and suggesting alternate courses of action.

ii.Private note to the individual, warning him or her to stop.

iii.Placement of the individual on "moderated" status (the individual remains a member of the list, but all posts must be filtered by the Curatrix Sermonem).

iv.In extreme cases, the offender can and will be banned from the list. Further action may be taken by the Senate, but this step represents the limit of the Curatrix Sermonem's powers.

The vast majority of cases can be dealt with via the first two steps alone, and it is the Curatrix Sermonem's hope that these guidelines will reduce the necessity even of those steps.

In the further interest of maintaining order and civility on the list, all new subscribers (this includes former members who re-subscribe) are automatically placed on moderated status for their first few posts, after which they revert to normal "unmoderated" status. As this list has an open membership, this policy allows us to avoid the occasional "spam" posts and is intended solely to prevent abuses of the list on a "hit and run" basis. This policy is not intended as, nor will it ever be used as, a form of censorship. It is an unfortunately necessary precaution based on past abuses.

XV.If you are unhappy about someone's behavior on the list, and you do not feel comfortable dealing with him/her privately, do not tell the list about it. This often has the effect of adding further strife. Likewise, if a thread has "gone too far" in your opinion, please refrain from making public statements to cease discussion. Contact me and I will assess the situation and decide upon a course of action accordingly. Instead, e-mail me at justicecmo@goldenfuture.net. I welcome all concerns, questions and ideas for more effective list administration in private e-mail.

XVI.Finally, to all of you who make the Nova Roma list a pleasant and informative place, thank you.

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: File - NovaRomaList.txt
From:	"pjane64" <pcassia@janeraeburn.com>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:36:58 -0000

While Priscilla Vedia is no longer with us, the list guidelines remain
the same. If you have concerns about their application, please inform
our acting Curatrix Sermonis, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
(scriba_forum@hotmail.com). If a situation needs immediate attention
and the Curatrix is unavailable, feel free to address your concerns to
me or to the Consuls.

Patricia Cassia
pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	[novaroma] Forwarded question...
From:	Matt Haase <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 06:40:09 -0600 (CST)

Please send replies to abraidot@bigpond.net.au.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 19:11:41 +1000
From: Augustus Braidotti <abraidot@bigpond.net.au>
To: consuls@novaroma.org
Subject: <no subject>

Hello.
I always doubted the New Testament version of Pontius Pilate's " washing his
hands " at the trial of Jesus. I thought romans washed their hands to prove
that justice was done. Does any one know if I'm right ?
grate
Augustus Braidotti

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Proposal for List Moderation: attacks against Vedius
From:	"darkling_crawler" <hendrik.meuleman@pi.be>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 08:11:34 -0000

Salve,

>
> <sigh> Repeat after me, Nova Roma is a republic. Nova Roma is not
a true
> democracy.

Is it that time again. Democracies and republics are no opposing
forms of government. Having long hair doesn't exclude it from being
curly.

Vale,
Solaris

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Herculaneum Lost Library Fund
From:	"Gaius Cornelius Ahenobarbus" <ahenobarbus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:14:48 -0800

Jove be praised. Long, long, long before I had ever heard of a Nova Roma, I
had yearned for the day that any primary research material on the ancients,
in the form of written accounts, could be recovered. In reading those
useful links you sent, I feel like there has been an answer to my prayers.
C.Cornelius Ahenobarbus


>
>http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/index.cfm?id=332482002
>
>http://www.discover.com/apr_01/featscrolls.html
>
>http://www.byu.edu/news/releases/archive01/Mar/Herculaneum/photos.html
>
>http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/classics//philodemus/philhome.htm
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Subject:	[novaroma] Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List Moderation}
From:	"darkling_crawler" <hendrik.meuleman@pi.be>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 08:17:47 -0000

Salve,

(snipped)

> In fact, that you are even here at all is proof of Nova
> Roma's benevolence to you. Far from being "censored", you have
been
> treated too leniently. I further suggest to you that you show
> your 'Romanitas' by 'seceeding' yourself out of NR and confine
yourself
> to the SVR, of which I understand you are a citizen.
>

All of us together now: SVR is not a micronation.

Vale,
Solaris

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Religio Update: Collegium Pontificum Vote
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 14:37:06 -0000

Weren't the Salian priests the ones who had to do the wild dances?

If so, I think Petrus should audition for the role! I propose a Nova Roma
get-together during which Petrus will "do the footloose" for everyone. :>

Ducking,
Gaius Cassius Nerva













--- In novaroma@y..., Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Pontifex Maximus Marcus Cassius Julianus et cives,
>
> >Marcus Cassius Julianus at cassius622@a... wrote:
> >
> > ITEM III - SALII CANDIDATE
> > by Amulius Claudius Petrus
>
> I am delighted to see that my application will be voted upon by the
> honourable Collegium Pontificum. I shall definitely perform a sacrifice
> tonight for pater Mars. Regardless of the out come of my application, I
am
> very happy to have had this opportunity to strengthen my knowledge
and
> spiritual relationship with Mars. If I am to be a Salii priest may it be by
> the will of Mars and all the gods of Roma.
>
> Valete,
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
>
> Canada Orientalis Website:
> www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
> --

Subject:	[novaroma] Tax Report
From:	"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:06:16 -0000

Salvete Quirites,

The official period for collection of taxes for the year 2,755 a.u.c.
has passed (although I expect a few payments via snail mail will
trickle in).

Those of us who have been here a while and/or preused the archives
will remember how contentious this issue has been and how long it has
taken us to get to this point (If I recall properly, taxes were first
discussed towrd the end of the first year of our Republic's
existence).

Our efforts this year were not without error. There were some
legitimate and difficult questions about how to remit funds from
outside the US. There were questions about bonding and the
associated expense, and several other issues. However, all said and
done, I believe the process this year was very successful.

We had 179 cives pay a total of $2,076 in tax. Cives from 25
different Provinciae and territories participated. We had payments
via Paypal, check, money order and cash. We had people who had an
easy way to pay in US funds do so for those who did not. Especially
in Hispania, Thule, Lacus Magni, and Brasilia we had citizens get
together and make a group payment. We also had noble cives make
donations for the payment of others' tax.

Although our 2755 budget for taxes must have been based on just "gut
feel" (since we had no history), it's gratifying to see we exceeded
that budget by 73%!

Now when worthy projects (such as the rescue of the Italian library
referenced on the list) arise, we have some means with which to
help. That, along with all the other needs the republic has which
can only be met with a little money.

Thanks to both Consuls and my colleague Quaestor Titus Octavius Pius
for all their help. We will continue to update reports as necessary.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Quaestor

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Herculaneum Lost Library Fund
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@bconnex.net>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 13:07:14 -0500

Salvete Gaius Cornelius Ahenobarbus et cives,

Gaius, judging from your message I take it you support the idea of Nova Roma
setting up a fund. =)

Yes, this has the potential to be one of the biggest discoveries for Roman
culture in history. It is vital that the scrolls be saved from destruction
caused by flooding etc.. Even if Nova Roma contributed around a hundred
dollars or so it would further the cause. Seeing how dependent Nova Roma is
on classic history that has been found in the past, I strongly believe it is
our duty as a nation to see that we contribute. These new scrolls must be
removed, read, and translated. I can hardly imagine the wealth of
information that could possibly be contained behind those carbonised doors
in Herculaneum.

If any citizen knows of a way of contacting those who are working on this
project in Italia provincia I would be very grateful if you could contact
me at pkkt@bconnex.net. I would also like to discuss this with the
Propraetor of Italia, Franciscus Apulus Caesar.

Valete,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
--


>Gaius Cornelius Ahenobarbus at ahenobarbus@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Jove be praised. Long, long, long before I had ever heard of a Nova Roma, I
> had yearned for the day that any primary research material on the ancients,
> in the form of written accounts, could be recovered. In reading those
> useful links you sent, I feel like there has been an answer to my prayers.
> C.Cornelius Ahenobarbus
>
>
>>
>> http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/index.cfm?id=332482002
>>
>> http://www.discover.com/apr_01/featscrolls.html
>>
>> http://www.byu.edu/news/releases/archive01/Mar/Herculaneum/photos.html
>>
>> http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/classics//philodemus/philhome.htm

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:25:35 -0500 (EST)

Honored Quaestor;

Thank you for your Tax Report. It seems that you have done a excellent
job!!!Previously you had published the standing of Provinces in the Tax
Collection effort and the number of citizens paying from each Province.
Since we are discussing a possible Cenus on the Magistrate's List, and
since I have indicated there, that those paying thier Taxws, are a good
indicator of active citizens in NR, I should like to have such a
standing as mentioned above. If you may be loath to send such
information via the Main List, you may of couse provide me the
infomation by private E-Mail.

In reference to the early mention of Tax consideration, I believe the
first official Tax proposal was placed before the Senate, before I was a
Senator, by Q. Fabius Maximus, the Junior Consul and myself. As I
recall, the proposal was discarded for lack of almost everything that
the Senate considered important (Grin). It being my first attempt at
such, I am, from the distance of a more expeienced time, not at al
surprised (Grin Again). I, myself, recieved a crushing message from our
former founder (Germanicus) labeling me as a traitor to Nova Roma, and
one conspiring to break up the Republic for my erratic, dangerous and
irresponsible ideas. I am pleased to see that the situation has indeed
changed.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens
ProConsul, Nova Britannia

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Hail and well met!!
From:	"davius_sanctex" <davius_sanctex@terra.es>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:36:20 -0000

Salve Honorate Consul, Germanice,

>>As a major magistrate, I suggest that you work to improve Nova Roma
rather than publically disparage it and promote our competition.<<

Indeed I'm working in NR. You can see the provincial list in which I
participe, and Sodalitas Latinitatis.
But some criticism is necessary in order to acquire conscience of
some facts. This gropus, in another time was an excellent discussion
forum of questions related to Roman World. But I think this is no
longer the actual situations (this is only an opinion).

About competition, but I think actually NR is no competence for SVR
in cultural aspects, I only made a recommendation to a citizens that
wished discuss about Rome.

>> Your behavior is shameful and unbefitting the office that you were
entrusted with.<<

Please I am not interest in political opinions, like the above one. I
will continue working to improve NR, but I am only a man ;-)

Fl. Cl. Sl. Davianus Iul.
=========================
Tribunus Plebis Novae Romae
Legatus Internis Rebus Hispaniae
Senator ac Rector Societatis Viae Romanae

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Religio Update: Collegium Pontificum Vote
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@bconnex.net>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 13:33:09 -0500

Salve Gaius Cassius Nerva,

>Gaius Cassius Nerva at gcassiusnerva@cs.com wrote:
>
> Weren't the Salian priests the ones who had to do the wild dances?

Yup, it was the Salii who kept the sacred shields of Mars, and on festival
days in March they danced through the streets of Rome. I once read somewhere
that during one of these festivals the good ol' emperor Claudius had a bit
too much to drink and actually joined the Salii in their dances. Now, I
think that would be more entertaining than a good chariot race!

>
> If so, I think Petrus should audition for the role! I propose a Nova Roma
> get-together during which Petrus will "do the footloose" for everyone. :>

I suppose that would be part of the job. I better start working on my dance
"moves". =)

Vale,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
--

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: "Dead" List--I don't think so!!!!!
From:	"davius_sanctex" <davius_sanctex@terra.es>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:50:07 -0000

Salve Honored Senator Audens:

>>and a Magistrate who does not possess the values of NR at heart, in
sufficient degree not to criticize her in a shameful and excessive
manner.<<

Precisely my criticism is a complaint about the virtual abscence of
cultural discussion here lately. The goals of NR are an excellent
ones and I always have been compromised with them.

Senator, my criticism about the lack of interesting discussion in
this Main List is an objective one! You can see the topics of the
messages!
I only have said that actually in cultural aspects the ML is dead. I
haven't said any more. I think it is an extremaly objective an
accurate assertion (if someone wish to view an objetive assertion as
a political rebelion, prefectly, I respect those that such things are
considering)

In totalitarist States criticism is viewed as traition. Senator
Audens I really apreciate your good intentions. But please, don't see
at me as an treacherous citizen (I have only made an objective
assertion about actual discussions on this list).

Respectfully,

Fl. Cl. Sl. Davianus Iul.
==========================
Tribunus Plebis Novae Romae
Legatus Internis Rebus Hispaniae
Senator ac Rector Societatis Viae Romanae

Subject:	[novaroma] Your Posts
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:51:47 -0500 (EST)

Unfortunately Limitanus I have read your posts. As difficult as they
are to stomach. I have made my point. New people awaiting citizenship
have wondered at my purpose, but as you and the others who have suffered
under your cultural insults and unsupported accusations, well know my
purpose, and in the fullness of time, or in a review of the archives. I
am sure they too will come to realize, if not agree, with my purpose.
Your ideas are your own, that is the freedom of this list, until they
begin to impinge on another, by unsupported criticism of another's
religion, culture, character, nation, or responsibility. Then they
become totally unsatisfactory.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: List topics (was Hail and well met!)
From:	"davius_sanctex" <davius_sanctex@terra.es>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:57:33 -0000

Thanks dear Patricia Cassia,
Grates do tibi, cara Patricia Casia,

You were an excellent "curatrix sermonis" and your defense of
moderation, democracy and tolerance is a great example for many of us.
I think that we all must send more messages concerning Roman related
topics, I have contributed in the past, you can see at the messages
sent in the past in this list, but it have sadden me to see that some
topics non-roman related (such as politicism) are more abundant in
this list lately.

Fl. Cl. Sl. Davianus Iul.
=========================
Tribunus Plebis Novae Romae
Legatus Internis Rebus
Senatur ac Rector SVR

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Hail and well met!!
From:	"davius_sanctex" <davius_sanctex@terra.es>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 19:01:42 -0000

Salvete cives atque salve tu Druse,

>> I Found this post to very disturbing. One of the main duties of
the Tribunes is to monitor our political ideas for their
Constitutionality, yet we have one of the Tribunes complaining that
politics are being openly discussed in the Forum.<<

Please, Druse, understand my comment. I am not saying that political
discussion must be avoided ... no! I am saying that aside from
polticial items we also must discuss another cultural or historical
topics ... both things are very interesting for us, but one og them
without the other are unconvenient for NR.

Cl. Salix Davianus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: List topics (was Hail and well met!)
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:03:50 -0800

Avete Omnes,

Tribune Claudius Salix, you cannot remove politics from the main list. Politics is just as important in Nova Roma as it was in ancient Rome. However, you complain about lack of culture but you have yet to start any thread or attempt any discussion on any subject other than politics. If you are going to complain about the state of this list, then you need to take your share of the responsibility for the criticism you have declared. Take responsibility, be proactive and try to improve things instead of just complaining about them.

Valete Omnes,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma
----- Original Message -----
From: davius_sanctex
To: novaroma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 10:57 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: List topics (was Hail and well met!)


Thanks dear Patricia Cassia,
Grates do tibi, cara Patricia Casia,

You were an excellent "curatrix sermonis" and your defense of
moderation, democracy and tolerance is a great example for many of us.
I think that we all must send more messages concerning Roman related
topics, I have contributed in the past, you can see at the messages
sent in the past in this list, but it have sadden me to see that some
topics non-roman related (such as politicism) are more abundant in
this list lately.

Fl. Cl. Sl. Davianus Iul.
=========================
Tribunus Plebis Novae Romae
Legatus Internis Rebus
Senatur ac Rector SVR

Subject:	[novaroma] Jupiters Temple
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:26:34 -0800

Salvete Omnes!

In an effort to encourage non-political discussion......

I have become interested in the Temple of Jupiter on Cedar Mountain. Primarily because I have been reading Zecharia Sitchin, and it has a prominent place in his writings. I would appreciate any information you have on this site, when and how it was used by the Romans, et cetera. It would probably be best to limit public replies to the Temple, but if anyone is interested in replying privately concerning the "Sitchinite" angle of this place, that would also be greatly welcomed.
Bene Vale!
Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@home.com
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

Nam ex parente meo et ex aliis sanctis viris ita accepi munditias mulieribus laborem viris convenire omnibusque bonis oportere plus gloriae quam divitiarum esse.
I have learned from my father and other holy men that women are suited to elegance, while men to work; and that all good people should have more glory than wealth.
Sallustius Crispus quoting Marius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Land--ownership, donation or permitted usage?
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:53:00 -0500 (EST)

Master Flavius Cordia Sulla;

Twice in the history of NR, land has been offered by Citizens to use for
the purposes abov outlined, and on both occasions this offer has been
later withdrawn, once, at least, by the owner leaving Nova Roma.
Donated Land then, has additional problems, over and above, those that I
mentioned in several earlier posts, hard and fast leasing agreements,
title to the land by donation, and special conditions possibly placed by
the donors. None of this is impossible, but it does require some
extensive time and effort. As I have indicated many times on these
lists, workers in a raitio of 3 to one, are needed over ideas.

Land which is held as taken for nonpayment of taxes is another
possibility. I have looked into ths in my immediate area, and there is
currently no land in that category. Each county seat in te West, and
Township in the East, however, would have to be investigated to make
that determination, unless there is documentation in the public domain
for such an investigation. However, the same cautions apply as in my
previous messges which can be found in the archives.

The availability of public land is questionable here in the Eastern U.S.
I am not aware of the land laws in countries other than the U.S. There
are in fact Public Lands available in the West, in states like New
Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, Idaho, Texas, etc. and one of the reasons that
they are available is that they are either unsuitable for access,
living, or they are a waterless desert or perpetual swampland. As I
have (again) indicated previously (found in the archives) land which can
be considered suitable for our uses, has also been surveyed / reviewed
by those who have funding, plans, and resources to purchase such lands
for thier own use. If they have not decided to acquire the lands, then
there is a very good chance that it would not be suitable for NR use
either, even if we had the money to pay the required taxes.

I know of several very small communities on the edge of National Forests
in the Western U.S. where land is available for very little, and the
taxes are virtually nothng. However, access to these places are over
fifty miles of National Forest gravel roadway, and at least a hundred
miles from the nearest full service airport, train depot, or bus
station.

May I strongly suggest that those NR Citizens who are interested in the
acquistion of land for Nova Roma, review the archivs of this List before
bringing forward ideas which have been discussed many times before. The
purpose of this preparation is of course two-fold, the first is that it
is immenently possible that you will fnd similar ideas and information
to "piggy-back" on your own, and the second is that you will not think
you are being ignored over an Idea, which has been aready discussed to
"rags."

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens


Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List Moderation}
From:	"curiobritannicus" <marcusaemiliusscaurus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 19:54:57 -0000

Salve Gaius Cassius Nerva et omnes,

>I further suggest to you that you show
> your 'Romanitas' by 'seceeding' yourself out of NR and confine
yourself
> to the SVR, of which I understand you are a citizen.

Is this really the answer, Nerva? Or do you think that everyone you
don't like should leave NR? Just because you disagree with
Limitanus' views on secession and resignation is no means to suggest
that he should leave.

In addition, why should the fact that you disagree with his views be
good reason for moderating him? Are we then to become a state where
talk of different ideas is good grounds for suppression? Or is it
only the ideas that you don't like that are moderated?

Narcus Minucius Audens, I congratulate you - you disagree with
Limitanus, and have told him why, and not included a single ad
hominem attack. This is how discussions should be conducted, cives.

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

Subject:	[novaroma] Taxes Paid By Province
From:	"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:05:48 -0000

Salve Senator Audens et salve quirites,

I see no reason why the numbers of cives paying per Provinciae should
no be shared. As you say, it is some indication of how many "active"
cives are in each Province and that should have some interest / value
for most of us. Accordingly, here it is:

Lacus Magni 19
California 17
America Austroccidentalis 16
America Austrorientalis 16
Mediatlantica 16
Hispania 14
Nova Britannia 14
Brasilia 11
America Boreoccidentalis 9
Canada Orientalis 7
Germaina 6
Thule 6
America Medioccidentalis Superior 5
Gallia 4
Britannia 3
Australia 2
Canada Occidentalis 2
Italia 2
Pannonia 2
Venedia 2
Argentina 1
Asia Orientalis 1
Ireland 1
Lusitania 1
New Zealand 1
Venezuela 1

179

As it turns out there were actually 26 Provinciae or territories
credited with payment vs. the 25 reported in my earlier post.

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes Paid By Province
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:02:38 -0500 (EST)

Quaestor Laenus;

Thank you for the posting. This is better than I had imagined. The
paid NR citizens are 14 in this province, and at last count I believe
the registered citizens were some 40+ in number. That is better than
1/4th of the registered population. Now if we can just get all of them
on-line and to the planned event in September that Legate and ProConsul
Marcus Cassius Julianus is putting together, perhaps we can together
begin to move closer to what a Province should be.

Marcus Minucius Audens
ProConsul, Nova Britannia

Subject:	[novaroma] Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List Moderation}
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 21:42:04 -0000

Salve Britannicus,

Britannicus, you and I have never had a quarrel, at least none
that I remember. I think most people here, you and I included, are
really, when you get right down to it, just trying to enjoy our
classical heritage. Talk of land, fundraising for lost libraries,
all this other stuff notwithstanding, we want to have fun, right?
Read my comments below in this light.

<<Is this really the answer, Nerva? Or do you think that everyone
you don't like should leave NR?>>

There are very few people now in NR whom I do not like. I could
count them on one hand with fingers left over, actually.

<<Just because you disagree with Limitanus' views on secession and
resignation is no means to suggest that he should leave.>>

His own unhappiness within NR is good reason that he leave. SVR
was founded to be an alternative for people unhappy with Nova Roma.
Limitanus is already a member there. That should be fine. He is in
a group with more like-minded people. He *should* be happy. Yet for
some reason, he is still unhappy. Unable to find happiness within
SVR, he feels it necessary to disrupt another group who wish to do
the same within their own organization. Misery indeed loves
company! Unable to be happy himself, he must attempt to sow
unhappiness here.

<<In addition, why should the fact that you disagree with his views
be good reason for moderating him?>>

Britannicus, can you please explain why any group should welcome with
open arms those who seek to wreck it? Tell me, how would SVR feel if
someone from Nova Roma joined it and then advocated it's dissolution,
accused it's elected magistrates of all sorts of unsavory things,
said rending it apart piece by piece is a good idea?

<<Are we then to become a state where talk of different ideas is good
grounds for suppression?>>

The fact that he is able to post his views is a sure sign that he
is *not* being censored or "suppressed", nor has he ever been. I
simply feel that any organization has the right to regulate, even
expel, those disruptive elements who have *openly advocated* it's
destruction, as he has done. None of us here were born into Nova
Roma. We entered because we wanted to, we stay because we are happy
here. If one is not happy here, and there is an alternative,
commonsense demands one leave the former and enjoy the latter.

<<Marcus Minucius Audens, I congratulate you - you disagree with
Limitanus, and have told him why, and not included a single ad
hominem attack.>>

Neither have I. And in fact, some of the Proconsul's remarks are
stronger than my own. But I agree with them regardless.

<<This is how discussions should be conducted, cives.>>

And that is how this one has been conducted.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

Subject:	[novaroma] Main List Politics {was List topics}
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:59:06 -0000

Salvete,

May I suggest that the reason for the preponderence of political
talk on this main list is the extistence of other lists devoted to
certain aspects of Roman culture? We have several special interest
groups devoted to Roman military, cooking, poetry and arts, etc. I
suspect that much more than politics is going on on these specialized
lists, which leaves the main list the political forum by default.

Nerva

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List Moderation}
From:	"Marcus Minicius Rufus" <xperiko@yahoo.es>
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:43:57 +0200

----- Original Message -----
From: "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
To: <novaroma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 9:54 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List Moderation}


> It was no coincidence that your praise of secession in Nova Roma came
> shortly after a real secession had already occured. Secession is by it's
> very nature the rending of the state. Therefore, you have advocated the
> ripping assunder of Nova Roma.
>
> Is it 'Romanitas' to join a voluntary union such as NR, only to seek to
> destroy it? Since the Constituion does allow for restriction of speech
> which presents a 'clear and present danger' to the Republic, and since

A simple question: Who decides what means a 'clear and present danger' to
the Republic? It seems to me that many ideas posted in recent days are not
dangerous in any way, they only show another point of view.

> advocacy of state destruction does qualify as such, I can only conclude
> that you were indeed in violation of list guidelines and deserve a
> moderated status.

If you don't want to hear it, simply don't read his messages, but they can
be interesting for some of us.

> In fact, that you are even here at all is proof of Nova
> Roma's benevolence to you. Far from being "censored", you have been
> treated too leniently.

That's a good one. He's been treated just like you, as he´s been allowed to
express his opinions.

> I further suggest to you that you show
> your 'Romanitas' by 'seceeding' yourself out of NR and confine yourself
> to the SVR, of which I understand you are a citizen.
>

and I further suggest to you that you show your 'Romanitas' by working for
the Republic, not telling anybody to go. Once more, SVR is not a
micronation.

> To the current acting list moderator, and Praetors, or Aediles, or
> whomever ends up as custodian of this list, I would like to suggest that
> Limitanus be kept on Moderated Status, indefinitely.
>

A disgracefull idea. There should not be a Moderated Status when a NR
citizen is expressing his thoughts

> Gaius Cassius Nerva
>
>

Bene Valete!!!

Marcus Minicius Rufus



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Forwarded question...
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 22:02:42 -0000

I sent a response to the address given, but thought I would share it
here as well.

Salve,

I have never heard of that meaning, but Pilate's washing his hands of
the matter makes sense in light of his record in office. From
Josephus and Philo we know of several instances of Pilate clashing
with the Jews and the Jewish authorities. In each case, complaints
were made to Rome and Rome sided with the Jews against Pilate. When
the case of Jesus came up, Pilate must have been fed up enough as it
was.

I am on deployment in Cuba, so I do not have my source material. But
you might want to check out Raymond Brown's two-volume analysis of
the passion narratives, called 'The Death Of The Messiah'. I am sure
he comments on this episode.

Gaius Cassius Nerva






--- In novaroma@y..., Matt Haase <haase@c...> wrote:
> Please send replies to abraidot@b...
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 19:11:41 +1000
> From: Augustus Braidotti <abraidot@b...>
> To: consuls@n...
> Subject: <no subject>
>
> Hello.
> I always doubted the New Testament version of Pontius Pilate's "
washing his
> hands " at the trial of Jesus. I thought romans washed their hands
to prove
> that justice was done. Does any one know if I'm right ?
> grate
> Augustus Braidotti

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes Paid By Province
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:04:39 -0800 (PST)

WooHoo!
Lacus Magni rules!

Marcus Bianchius Antonius


--- g_popillius_laenas <ksterne@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Salve Senator Audens et salve quirites,
>
> I see no reason why the numbers of cives paying per
> Provinciae should
> no be shared. As you say, it is some indication of
> how many "active"
> cives are in each Province and that should have some
> interest / value
> for most of us. Accordingly, here it is:
>
> Lacus Magni 19
> California 17
> America Austroccidentalis 16
> America Austrorientalis 16
> Mediatlantica 16
> Hispania 14
> Nova Britannia 14
> Brasilia 11
> America Boreoccidentalis 9
> Canada Orientalis 7
> Germaina 6
> Thule 6
> America Medioccidentalis Superior 5
> Gallia 4
> Britannia 3
> Australia 2
> Canada Occidentalis 2
> Italia 2
> Pannonia 2
> Venedia 2
> Argentina 1
> Asia Orientalis 1
> Ireland 1
> Lusitania 1
> New Zealand 1
> Venezuela 1
>
> 179
>
> As it turns out there were actually 26 Provinciae or
> territories
> credited with payment vs. the 25 reported in my
> earlier post.
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes Paid By Province
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:01:10 -0500 (EST)

Propraetor of Lacus Magni;

May I offer my congratulations in your signal showing of those who have
paid thier taxes. While I am fully cognizant that the various Provinces
at this point in Nova Roma history do not have equal numbers, and I am
pleased to congratulate all of the ProPraetors and ProConsuls for their
not inconsiderable efforts in this task, -- still it is nice to be at
the top of the List!!!!

Respectfully, and With My Congratulations;

Marcus Mnucius Audens;
ProConsul, Nova Britannia

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: My Father Re: With Sadness, Gratias
From:	"Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato" <a.cato@sympatico.ca>
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:35:51 -0500

Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato novaromanis S.P.D.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who have sent condolences to my family and me. A silver coin accompanied my father to his eternal rest.
There have been very many E-mails that have come in, from many part of the world. I must say that it is very touching to know that so many have been so thoughtful. Gratias maximas tibi ago my friends.
I have not had time to aknowledge everyone with a personal E-mail naturally due to time constraints. However, I would like to take this opportunity to mention a few people.
I know that I am bound to miss some, and to these, I ask forgiveness. I extend my deepest apologies to those I miss. I will try to go through everything again. But there is so much to do in the family right now.
Many private E-mails have been sent, but I would also like to extend sincerest thanks from my family to:
Senator Patricia Cassia
Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
Gaius Cassius Nerva
Senator Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Curule Aedile Amulius Claudius Petrus
Senator Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Senator Marcus Minucius Audens

These are just a few of the many I owe thanks to. I hope that everyone I haven't mentioned here has received a private E-mail from me. I hope I got everyone.
I will try to catch up on my E-mail to see if I missed anyone. With my time away, I see that we lost a citizen. Ianus Minucius Americanus. I am sorry that I missed this announcment. May our Gods and Goddesses grant his spirit many blessings. I never met him but I am sure that he was a fine Nova Roman. It would have been a pleasure to meet him, I am sure. My sincere condolences to his family, losing a loved one is never easy for anyone. Treasure the good memories and remember the happy times.

Again, ... Gratias maximas tibi ago.

Bene valete, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
Senator, Nova Roma
Procurator, Provincia Canada Orientalis
Paterfamilias, Gens Tullia



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Political / Cultural Discussion
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:40:10 -0500 (EST)

Ave Nerva;

You beat me to it!!! What perhaps Daianus does not realize is that I
took the question of thee numbers of political messages to the Moderator
some time agao, and asked that the question of limiting such be
considered on the Main List. I did this simply because, I believed that
was the proper way to deal with the question, rather than "ragging" the
list about my view of the situation. The Moderator duly put the
question to the list, in a manner so as not to reveal the person
proposing the question. The result was that, the overwhelming vote was
not to limit in any way the political content of the Main List.

It is further apparent to me that as Nerva has indicated, the various
Sodalitas Lists (Militarium. NRLandProject, and several others which I
do not belong to) are flled with comment and conjecture relating to
thier specific interests, which is why they were created. Miltarium has
added a "Socci" group who are people who do not belong to NR, but are
still interested in Military Subjects. I would not expect the honorable
Davianus to know about these lists because he is obviously not
interested in such, but niether would I expect a Magistrate to dismiss
out of hand that which he was not aware of, invite a new Citizen to seek
elsewhere outside of Nova Roma without being so aware, and then dismiss
the Senior Consul's comment as being "of no interest."

So, in response to Citizen Davianus, the content of the Main List
material appears to be what is desired by the majority of the Citizens
of Nova Roma. While I personally do not agree, with the vote, as it was
registered, I choose to honor it because it indicates a preference of
the majority. I choose not to "ragg" the list about the problem for the
same reason. For those who do not know of this situation, I have
indicated on several occasions that perhaps the archves will provide a
better understanding, before one undertakes to begin asking decisions
and making comments which are not really suitable to ones's
representation of the people. I am very concerned when I hear an
elected Magistrate say to an elected Consul, "I am not interested in
your political opinions."

Although I am not well known for my static and steadfast agreement with
all of my colleagues, I do know what respect a Consul deserves, and
whether I agree or disagree, I believe a Consul deserves the respect of
his office, particularly from a first time Magistrate. I have some
small experience with the Citizens of Nova Roma, in election efforts,
and I do not believe I have ever heard anyone of them support
discourteous behavior to a Consul, without extenuating circumstance.
Certainly in the case of our present Senior Consul, who has done so much
for Nova Roma, and whose statement, in my opinion, was right on the mark
this right of respect and courtesy applies.

Marcus Minucius Audens;
Senator et ProConsul

Subject:	[novaroma] Taxes Paid By Gentes
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@bconnex.net>
Date:	Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:54:24 -0500

Salvete cives et amici,

Out of the sake of curiosity, how many citizens per-gentes paid this years
annual tax? I know my own gens had horribly low numbers for the amount of
members we have. We are a large patrician gens with 20 members, yet we only
have two tax payers among us. One being myself, and another a citizen whom I
never seen from. Is this a common occurrence? I am also curious at how the
legendary ³Cornelii Empire² did compared to most. Provincial authorities
play a large part in getting citizens active, although do paters/maters play
a part in this process? If someone could provide a list of taxes paid by
gentes I would be very interested in seeing the results.

Valete,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
--