Subject:	Re: [novaroma] second anniversary as novaroman citizen
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:03:14 -0300 (ART)

Salvete

Salve Lucius Pompeius; happy "novaroman" birthday...
:)

--- luciuspompeius <danielovi@yahoo.com> escreveu: >
Salvete omnes cives novaromani
> Yesterday was my second anniversary as novaroman
> citizen. During this
> time I've found many friends here and also many kind
> people who
> offered me their help at this hard time. I want to
> express my most
> sincere gratitude to all of them.
> I'll finish this message by saying that I do feel
> very glad for
> belonging to this wonderful micronation.
> Maximas gratias omnibus ago
> Habeatis fortunam optimam
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Propraetor provincialis Argentinæ

Valete
M Arminius

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	02 Apr 2002 21:15:48 -0300

Salve,

<snipped already answered part>

> I have tried to look at his side of the argument, but there does not
> seem to be any attempt to return the effort. In addition, he has called
> into question my culture and my nation which is beyond my ability to
> ignore.

A Roman in Rome should ignore the opinions of a local city citizen about
its own local city when both are in fact talking about Rome.
I called in question the influence of your city on our common nation,
I am severely doubting anything your city does to any other city because
of the aspiration of your city to hegemony over the world. I have
absolutely no opinions about your inner politics, it is not of my
concern.

Is NovaRoma a nation or is it an organization of your city ?
I thought we were a nation and every time somebody tries to reduce us
to a local organization that accepts meteques from other cities, I must
stand up a make my voice heard. In fact as should do every Roman.

> He has begun the tired diatribe of Fascist, Tyranny, and
> Oligarchy, which as he well knows has very bad connotations both in Nova
> Roma, because of previous demogogues who sought to reshape Nova Roma in
> thier own image, and in the world at large. If he does not know, then I
> refer him to the not too far distant archives

The fascist subject was started by Q. Fabius, not by me.
I said absolutely nothing about oligarchy and tyranny in a pejorative
way: read my mail.

Read what we (Q.Fabius and myself) wrote using those words: it was a
discussion about terminology and categories, nothing directly related to
NR.

Senator, you refused one after the other the two ways of describing our
mixed constitution (Polybius). You both refuse the terms aristocracy and
oligarchy for the senate. What are we supposed to use for desiogning the
"governement by a few" which is the ONLY sense of oligarchy.
And this is an integral part of the roman form of government (the
senate) both ancient and new.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that: it is the form of
government we try to reproduce, without the oligarchic _part_ it would
not be a new Rome.

Nor would it be a new Rome without the democratic part symbolized by the
free speach on the forum and the vote of _ALL_ people of our laws.
Our (and ancient Rome's) democracy if of the geometric type (Thales)
were the effectivity of the vote of each is proportional to something
(Property in AR, involvement with the state in NR). This is different
from a modern democracy, or a "pure" democracy like 5-4th century Athens
which pratize arithmetic democracy (Thales again). But this is totally
fine since we are in Nova _Roma_ and not in any other Nova something.

Tyranny/Autarchy (Monarchy has another sense today) was also a part of
ancient Rome through the absolute power given to the consuls, including
the power of death or life through their lictors.
We reduced this power in its harshest part, this is fine for me.

If what I wanted was a "pure" democracy (everything decided by the
assembly of the people) I would have joined Nova Athens, I did not.
If what I wanted was a "pure" tyranny or oligarchy, I would have joined
some other micronation which use this type of government, I did not.

There is absolutely nothing pejorative in the words oligarchy or tyranny
when someone speaks of forms of government: Those are just the correct
words to be used to describe a Roman (Ancient or New) government.

> I am not concerned with
> his personal views of myself, but I am very concerned with his apparent
> accusations against the government of Nova Roma, the Senate of Nova
> Roma, and the collective Magistrates of Nova Roma, as well as the doubt
> that such words cast on the judgement of Nova Roman Citizens for whom I
> have a very great respect, as theirs is the hardest task of all-----to
> select effective Magistrates Annually having only unsupported words and
> previous deeds from which to judge.
>
> Many people have attempted to explain the obvious to him, but he has
> rejected all such, and has chosen steadily to widen the argument, rather
> than to seek a way to come to some determination or way around the
> problem of a more immediate nature. For my part, I would think that if
> such an organization were founded in Spain, let us say, and it was
> intended that it be a world-wide organization that the decision would
> still be to use English since it is the most widely spoken language in
> the world (with Spanish a close second) not just because it is my
> language. I suspect also that were such a decision made by the Spanish,
> Danish, or Chekoslovakians, or in fact any other nation, the argumnt
> would not be in any way, so contentious. I hve exhausted my arguments
> and my alternatives, and would certainly appreciate any fresh or new
> ideas, beyond "my way or no way!!!"

Someone on this list gave the example of the Zionist movement which
decided to use a dead language which was only culturally related to them
instead of both the language of the nation they were citizens of and the
two international languages they spoke. They finally got their land.

This resumes again to the same question: are we a nation? are we a
movement aspiring to become a nation? Or are we simply an international
organization ?
I thought we were the first or at least the second.
SVR definitively is the 3rd.

>
> The other aspect is that when we have in the past, allowed various
> languages used without translations on the Main List, there have been
> those who have taken advantage of that situation to E-Mail foul
> language, and insults to the Main List in a language which was not
> translated. He has complained bitterly about moderation, but during
> mine and Q. Fabius Maximus' consulship the attempt was made to leave the
> Main List unmoderated, until finally the appeal from the Citizens of
> Nova Roma to bring moderation back again grew so great, that the Consuls
> were required to bow to thier wishes.

Moderation is not previous censorship. The debates between candidates in
our democracies are usually moderated, but this does not mean that one
passes his peach to the moderator who has to approve it.

Previous censorship is very different, and again if some internet list
use previous censorship, no even slightly democratic nation uses
previous censorship, and many lists do not use it at all.

Previous censorship is usually a corollary of martial law.
And the argument that our people is childish and need some extra
"protection" is the exact argument used by dictatures all around the
world for several centuries.
Again this does not mean that you or anybody else
in the government are dictators, just that dictatorial (or martial law)
ways are used.

> Some of the comments from this
> gentleman, has indeed indicated the continued need for that moderation.
>
> My purpose in this long post is to bring some sort of sense out of this
> argument, with some accomodation to the needs of both sides of the
> argument, both in the long and short term, without widening the argument
> into insulting the cultures, religions, nations, and purpose of Nova
> Roma or her citizens. I am willing to consider such even at this late
> date, but for the reasons previously mentioned I am not willing to give
> up those responsibilities placed upon me by the Citizens of Nova Roma,
> nor would I suppose any Magistrate, Senator, ProConsul, or Propraetor
> would be so inclined in his or her turn to do so.
>
> Respectfully,


Vale,

Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Peace!
From:	"Martins-Esteves" <esteves@compuland.com.br>
Date:	Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:57:10 -0300

Salvete Quirites
Salve M. Minuci!


You are a great person and I never stop learning from your noble attitudes. Thanks for making this public!

I shall offer Concordia a small sacrifice, so that more and more Romans can reach an agreement.

Valete in pace deorum

Titus Horatius Atticus


-----Mensagem original-----
De: jmath669642reng@webtv.net <jmath669642reng@webtv.net>
Para: novaroma@yahoogroups.com <novaroma@yahoogroups.com>
Data: Terça-feira, 2 de Abril de 2002 19:26
Assunto: [novaroma] Peace!


Honored Consuls, Magistrates, Senators and Citizens of Nova Roma;

As some of you may have been aware, The Honored Junior Consul Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix and I have had a slight disagreement for some
time. I am pleased to announce that we have jointly decided to end that
diagreement suddenly and finally, since it really serves no great
purpose, and together to embark on a closer and more understanding
basis.

We got together and cussed each other out for a couple of messages, and
then settled down to our real base problems. We have exchanged
assurances which were mutually agreeable, and have agreed to begin again
with clean slates, and nothing left over from before.

For myself, I am pleased to be able to make this announcement, as it
frees me of a nagging thought which has come to the fore more and more
often of late that I was not being completely fair. We have agreed that
our political views are owr own, but that our Dignity and Honor belong
to Nova Roma as long as we wear the Toga of a Magisrate, or sit on a
marble bench in the Senate.

Further we have pledged to each other that everyone makes mistakes,
everyone is on the road to getting better, and all that is needed for
friendship is honesty and straightforward speech.

I am very pleased to make this anouncement and I pledge to the Honored
Consul my best assurances, as he has to me.

Very Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[novaroma] I Have Returned
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 01:17:57 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

I trust you are all well.

I have returned to the res Publica after a brief absence dealing with
a family matter, and I am ready to assume my duties here in Nova Roma
I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience my absence has caused.

I would, at this time, like to thank Senator Patricia Cassia for
tending to list moderation matters in my absence.

Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia

Subject:	[novaroma] Houses of Roman Britain;
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:20:15 -0500 (EST)

In an attempt to broaden the subjects of the Mail List, I offer this
article. Normally, material of this type would be logged within the
Sodalitas Militarium List, but there are those apparently in Nova Roma,
who do not realize that the Sodalitas' can be a depository for a wide
variety of material not normally found on the ML.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

---------------------------------------------------------------
As the Roman culture moved into the provinces farther and farther from
Rome, they tended to take on more and more of the shape and external
dimensions of native homes. One very good reason for this was the
significantly different climate encountered in these provinces.

If the houses of Roman Britain differed a good deal in plan from the
houses of Pompeii, the internal fittings were definately classical.
There was the same painted wall plaster the same mosaic floors, the same
hypocausts and bathrooms as found in Italy. The wall paintings and
mosaics may have been poorer in Britain, the hypocausts more numerous;
but the things themselves were those of the South. For instance a head
of Mercury against a background of red, which was a fragment of
wall-plaster that once adorned a husein Roman London (1). Despite a
certain crudeness of execution, it was a vigorous piece of drawing. But
that it should be a Roman and not a Celtic god that is represented, is
eminently characteristic.

This piece shows the head of Mercury with long reddish brown hair ending
in slight curls arund the face and neck. The highlights of the hair is
done in pinkis red. Small brown wings, crudely executed, spring from
each side of the upper head with a light greyish outline of the
wing-bones just barely showing. The eyes are slightly unbalanced and
the shadow of the eye depressions are a light brown. The chin is too
full resemblng a cartoon and the neck ppears to have a swelling which
appears to be lumpish and detracts somewhat from the otherwisestrong
features. The nose, eyebrows and cheekbones are well executed. Only a
small part of the tunic is seen, close by the throat, and there is what
appears to be a white lanyard or ribbon around the neck. The tunic is a
light grass green.

The mosaics, as well reflect the Roman art forms. No mosaic, I believe,
has come to light in the whole of Roman Britain which represents any
local subject or contains any unclassical feature. The usual
ornamentaton consists either of mythological scenes, such as Orpheus
charming the animals, or Appollo chasing Daphne, or Bacchus ridng on a
Panther (2). or of geometrical designs like the so-called Asiatic
Shields which are of classical origin. (3)

The mosaic of Bacchus shows the god of wne and enjoyment relaxing, at
his ease, on the back of a panther. This scene is a small round mosaic,
about life sized, in the center of a much larger square mosaic, perhaps
that of a large square room. There are three concentric rings of mosaic
around the centerpiece, each of a very different and strident, though
beautiful design, light on the interior half, dark on the exterior half
making two distinctly different patterns of the same style. The first is
an endless stylized ocean wave, the second is a water wheel, and the
third is an endless sine-wave pattern in alternating dark and light
colors. Outside the outer circle is a square with two bells in opposite
corners and two styalized blossoms in opposite corners. Beyond this
square, are four more square borders each larger than the next. Two of
them are thin borders which serve to divide the two larger borders and
to finally surround the whole. Of the two heavier borders, the interior
one is a complicated many colored basket design, and the outer one is a
very lovely stylized set of shallow diamonds enhanced with what appear
to be tw0-armed jellyfish on each long axis diamond point. Four
stylized vegetable knives reside in each corner. with the handles
pointing to the center. I have only a black and white copy, of the
mosaic described above, to hand, but the work and the clarity of the
mosaic is quite phenominal. A colored picture of such, must be
riveting!

It must be carefully considered that we of the modern age have been made
aware of many different ideas from many different cultures, so that a
Frenchman will not feel ill at ease necessarily in a Portuguese house.
However,
if an Italian had strayed into a Romano--British house, he would have
found hardly anything so strange, so alien from his native art, as the
Oriental rugs with which modern Europeans deck thier floors. Custom has
made those rugs familiar to us; really they show how cosmopolitan are
our tastes in art. The Roman was not cosmopolitan; wherever he went, he
was Roman and Italian.

(1) Roach Smith, "Illustrations of Roman London", Plate XIV, 3;

(2) Roach Smith. "Illustrations of Roman London", Plate XII; This
mosaic was found in leadenhall Street in December, 1803.

(2) "Romanization of Roman Britain", British Acad. Proc., ii, pp.
185--217 .

Reference:

"The Roman Occupation of Britain" Being Six Ford Lectures, F.
Haverfield, Eds. George MacDonald, Oxford at The Clarendon Press, 1924,
page 210.

Repectfully Submitted;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	[novaroma] Peace
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 01:25:25 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

Well, my Paterfamilias told me there would be a surprise on the list
for me. Undoubtedly, this is it.

It is difficult to see two people you care about so much
perpetually "afeudin". I can't think of the two men whom I am more
close to here in Nova Roma (no disrespect to anyone else), and whom I
have spent more time with celebrating our common interests in Rome.

I am pleased to see that an effort has been reached from both sides
to seek a 'common ground'. I am proud of both of you (you see
I 'know' these two well too (grin); I know this took effort on both
your parts, and you should be proud that you both think enough of the
Republic and Roman virtue both, that you strive to make peace.

I love you both very much.

Pompeia

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:42:38 -0500 (EST)

Mannius Limitanus;

Well, I have read your responses and then I read them again to make sure
that I had missed nothing. I will be pleased to admit my mistake in
that you did invite me to join a Latin organization of some kind, after
I clearly indicated that I would not feel comfortable doing so for some
time. In that area I was mistaken and apologize for that mistake.
However, it also means that in fact it is you who do not read the posts
sent to you, not the other way around.

As for the rest, your penchant for lecturing me, is no different
whatsoever from a previous disatisfied gentleman, your views will
apparently not be modified in the least, regardless of what any one
else's views may be, and your views seem to be based on the old "do it
right now my way, and we will look into your problems much later" style
of problem solving. I leave you to it, my friend, for if you think my
thinking is strange to you, you have mine totally tangled. It will take
me awhile to unravel this mess!!!!

M. M. Audens

Subject:	[novaroma] Peace
From:	"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 03:24:52 -0000

Salvete Honored Consul Sulla et Senator Audens,

Indeed a pleasure to see concordia restored between you two.

Roma Victor!

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Houses of Roman Britain;
From:	lanius117@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:30:57 EST

Salve, Senator et Proconsul Marcus Minucius Audens

Thank you for posting the article about houses in Roman Britain. I enjoyed
reading it very much.

Vale,

Gaius Lanius Falco


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Easter camp in New Zealand
From:	"Devry, Mark (Packaging House Auckland)"
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:18:42 +1200

Salvete All,

This Easter saw members of Legion II Augusta (NZ) travel from our base in
Auckland to Pihangina valley, just outside of Palmerston North for the
annual Easter re-enactment camp hosted by the Red Ravens Mercenary Club.
Seven members of the Legion and several associate members made the journey,
those coming from Auckland on the Friday braving long delays due to a
serious accident on the main route south.
The weather during the camp was showers - but fortunately it wasn't too cold
until the last night when the weather took a wintery turn.
Two members of Nova Roma where in attendance, Decima Cornelia Salviana and
myself, and we enjoyed ourselves immensly mixing and battling with
re-enactors from the Medieval and Ancient periods. Unfortunately while
aiding two friends of mine hang their club banner, I slipped off a chair and
broke my finger before combat even started, which made it near impossible to
fight with gladius and scuta as well as provided great amusement to everyone
else.
To fight, I took on an earlier period persona, a triarius from the early
republican army with 9 foot hasta which allowed my to keep my finger out of
the way - the only problem was I didn't have an appropriate helmet in my
kit, so this triarius had a strangly gaullic looking hemet.
Our training has certainly served us well this year - the Romans showed
their worth in all the set peice battles - especially the bridge battle and
the battle for the Lupin fields were the forces of good (us) triumphed ...
just, I was the only person left standing on either side!
We did suffer in the looser, individual contests where our heavier armour
was negated by the speed of lightly armoured oponents, but even so two
Romans were in the final four contestants in the individual circle of combat
on the last day of the camp.
The camp gave us an excellent time to demonstrate the skills and tactics we
have been working on, even if they didn't always work out as planned, and to
learn of other groups and individuals, as well as compare equipment and
costume, exagerate about our battlefield exploits and drink and eat to our
hearts content.
Sadly this was my last camp in NZ for some time, I leave in two months for
Europe were I will be stationed for a couple of years, but I certainly
enjoyed it!

As an aside, the Legion has been challanged by another Auckland club to
assault their fort near Warkworth, and we have happily accepted. This is
happening on Saturday the 27th of April. If anyone in NZ wishes to come and
watch, please feel free to contact me and I can supply you with all the
details.

Cheers,
Marcus Sentius Accipiter

Subject:	[novaroma] Latin Lessons
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 00:08:53 -0500 (EST)

Ladies and Gentlemen;

Herein begins my Latin Lessons. The book that I will be studying from
is a primer. so some things will be simplistic for those of you who are
primary source scholars, however, the following material documents the
life of a real person and his family, and I hope this lesson wll
generate some interest--Read On;
--------------------------------------------------------------

"Caecilius lived in Italy during the first century A.D. in the town of
Pompeii. The town had a population of about 20,000 and was situated at
the foot of Mt. Vesuvius on the coast of the Bay of Naples. Caecilius
was a wealthy Pompeian Banker. His business accounts, which were
discovered when his house was dug up, tell us that he was also an
auctioneer, tax-collector, farmer and money-lender.

He inherited some of his money from his father, Lucius Caecilius Felix,
but he probably obtained most of it through his own shrewd and energetic
busines activities. He dealt in slaves, cloth, timber, and property.
He also carried on a cleaning and dyeing business, grazed herds of sheep
and catle on pastureland outside of town, and he sometimes won the
contract for collecting the local taxes. He may have owned a few stores
as well, and probably lent money to local shipping companies wishing to
trade with countries over seas. The profit on such trde was often very
large.

We can discover more about Caecilius by studying his full ame, which was
Lucius Caecilius Iucundus. As a Roman citizen, Caecilius not only had
the right to vote in elections, but was also fully protected by the law
against unjust treatment.

Caecilius' firrs name was Lucius. This was a personal name of Caecilius
himself, raher like a modern first name. His second name was Caecilius
and this shows that he was a member of the "clan" of Caecilii. Clans or
family groups were very important, and strong feelings of loyalty
existed within them. Caecilius third name , Iucundus is the name of his
own family and close relatives. The word "iucundus" means --pleasant--,
just as in English we find surnames like Merry or Jolly. Whether
Caecilis was really a pleasant charcter, you will find out from the
stories that you read about him."

The house of Caecilius was located along a street in Pompeii. Almost
directly in fornt of the front door of the houe were stepping stones
across the roadway. Three large stepping stone almost the hieght of the
curb were placed so that wagons in the street could pass over the center
stone. The purpose of the stones were to provde a pedestrian a way to
croos the street witout stepping into water,mud or other material /
debris in the roadway. The front door opened directly onto the walkway
(sidewalk) beside the road or street. The house appears to be a large
one showing a stone or brick front approximately two stories high and
probably 50ft. long. There are two window openings on each side of the
door, but about 7 or 8 feet above the sidewalk. The door has a heavy
lintel stone over it, and there are four windows along the side of the
house that are visible. This side appears to flank a garden perhaps or
some kind of open space. Perhaps we will discuss the home further as we
go through the book.

Reference:
"Cambridge Latin Course--Unit 1--1988

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	[novaroma] Latin Lesson 1---Part 1
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 00:45:36 -0500 (EST)

My Frends;

So begins Latin Lesson 1---Part 1:

--------------------------------------------------------------

Caecilius est pater-----Caecilus is father;

Metela est mater----Metela is mother;

Quintus est filius--Quintus is son;

Clemens est servus---Clemens est servant;

Grumio est coquus--Grumio is cook;

Cerberus est canis--Cerberus is dog;

Caecilius est in tablino--Caeciliusis in the study;

Metela est in atrio---Metels is in the reception hall;

Quintus est in triclinio--Quintus is in the dining room;

Clemens est in horto-- Clemens is in the garden;

Grumio est in culina--Grumio is in the kitchen;

Cerberus est in via--Cerberus is in the street;

Pater est in tablino, Pater in tablino scribit.===

Father is in the study. Father in the study is writing.

Mater est in atrio. Mater in atrio sedet.===

Mother is in the reception hall. Mother in the reception hall is
sitting.

Filius est in triclinio. Filus in triclinio bibit.===

Son is in the dining room. Son in the dining room is drinking.

Servus est in horto. Servus in horto laborat==

Servus is in the garden. Servus in the garden is working.

Coquus est in culina. Coquus in culina laorat==

Cook is in the kitchen. Cquus in the kitchen is working.

Canis est in via. Canis in via dormit.===

Dog is in the street. Dog in the street is sleeping.

Words and Phrases---

--est-----is;

--pater----father;

--mater----mother;

--filius----son;

--servus----servant;

--coquus----cook;

--canis----dog;

--in tablino----in the study;

--in atrio----in the reception hall;

--in triclinio----in the dining room;

--in horto----in the garden;

--in culina----in the kitchen;

--in via----in the street;

--scribit----is writing;

--sedet----is sitting;

--bibit----is drinking;

--laborat----is working;

--dormit----is sleeping.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Reference:
Cambridge Latin Course---Unit 1---1988;

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Feelings Nova Roma has Against SVR
From:	Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@inwave.com>
Date:	Tue, 02 Apr 2002 23:30:41 -0600

Avete Omnes,

If I may offer a reprise of a poem I wrote upon the "exodus" last year?

Please look at it with the current Nova Roma vs. SVR discussion in mind?


Written in response to several friends resigning from Nova Roma
over some basic disagreements with the governance therein.


Faring Away - Venator scripsit, in Amicitia
2 Ides March 2253 AUC

I say, fare well, to friends unmet
On placid seas, through stormy swells
Our ships have paced, each other's paths
But now the time, for parting comes

My course remains, take ship to Rome
Your path is too, by other routes
Our dreams at base, are so alike
A dream of Her, whose Spirit calls

But different, too much, somehow
And crew tempers, have flared and sparked
Too many times, set sails alight
With bitter words, beyond recall

So travel safe, upon your way
I ask your words, of blessing too
And send a note, from time to time
Your health I'll drink, and wish you luck

For journey's worth, is not all mine
The treasured goal, is Romans' all
And at the end, of voyage long
I think we'll see, we're all at home

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Civis Nova Romana et Paterfamilias

Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html

"In Romae viae omniae terminant"

Subject:	AW: [novaroma] Feelings Nova Roma has Against SVR
From:	<3s@hsk-net.de>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 01:15:19 -0600 (CST)

Salvete Quirites,

I see the SVR with mixed feelings.

The SVR is an organization which offers an alternative to Nova Roma. In the past it collected disappointed citizens from Nova Roma, to offer another political system. But they do not declare themselves as a micronation.

As long as Nova Roma is not a "territorial" micronation, with own territory and recognized souvereignty, we will have to deal with organizations like the SVR from time to time. As Consul Sulla remarked, there were several roman micronations besides NR, NR survived it all. Despite all internal conflicts.

Our citizens are free to join any further roman organization they like. That is not a problem until the SVR would be officialy declared as an enemy to NR. The problem are elected or appointed magistrates who are SVR members. Magistrates are required to swear an oath of office, the are required and expected to give their loyality to NR and work for the titles, the powers and honours given to them. To hold offices in both NR and SVR can bring them into difficult situation. Means: If somebody wants to serve, he should decide for only one organization.

This is the real problem I see: Engaged people interested in roman things wants to serve, and they possibly serve in NR and SVR. This does not necessarily mean that they are NR citizens with "mixed feelings" or that they are even hostile to NR. But they can found themselves in difficult situations. Noone can serve two masters with same loyality. And the SVR is in fact another "master" besides NR, micronation or not.

True friendly coexistence would be indeed helpful, and I truly wish that we could create such a coexistence, let aside cooperation. But I see this as quite fictive, since the SVR has strong dissidents from NR within it´s ranks and files. My wishes to our magistrates who are holding offices in the SVR are that they might have the chances, the powers and the will to reach a friendly coexistence, and that they might see their double positions as an obligation to work towards this.

Bene Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Censor, Senator
Propraetor Germaniae

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Feelings Nova Roma has Against SVR
From:	"gaiuscoriolanus" <jozef.duhacek@siemens.sk>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 07:40:35 -0000

Qurites,

excuse my ignorance, maybe I haven't watched this thread very
carefully. What is SVR? What this abreviation mean and can I see its
website?

Coriolanus



--- In novaroma@y..., <3s@h...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I see the SVR with mixed feelings.
>
> The SVR is an organization which offers an alternative to Nova
Roma. In the past it collected disappointed citizens from Nova Roma,
to offer another political system. But they do not declare themselves
as a micronation.
>
> As long as Nova Roma is not a "territorial" micronation, with own
territory and recognized souvereignty, we will have to deal with
organizations like the SVR from time to time. As Consul Sulla
remarked, there were several roman micronations besides NR, NR
survived it all. Despite all internal conflicts.
>
> Our citizens are free to join any further roman organization they
like. That is not a problem until the SVR would be officialy declared
as an enemy to NR. The problem are elected or appointed magistrates
who are SVR members. Magistrates are required to swear an oath of
office, the are required and expected to give their loyality to NR
and work for the titles, the powers and honours given to them. To
hold offices in both NR and SVR can bring them into difficult
situation. Means: If somebody wants to serve, he should decide for
only one organization.
>
> This is the real problem I see: Engaged people interested in roman
things wants to serve, and they possibly serve in NR and SVR. This
does not necessarily mean that they are NR citizens with "mixed
feelings" or that they are even hostile to NR. But they can found
themselves in difficult situations. Noone can serve two masters with
same loyality. And the SVR is in fact another "master" besides NR,
micronation or not.
>
> True friendly coexistence would be indeed helpful, and I truly wish
that we could create such a coexistence, let aside cooperation. But I
see this as quite fictive, since the SVR has strong dissidents from
NR within it´s ranks and files. My wishes to our magistrates who are
holding offices in the SVR are that they might have the chances, the
powers and the will to reach a friendly coexistence, and that they
might see their double positions as an obligation to work towards
this.
>
> Bene Valete
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
> Censor, Senator
> Propraetor Germaniae

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Feelings Nova Roma has Against SVR
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:37:05 +0100 (BST)

Salve

SVR stands for Societas Via Romana, The Society Of The
Roman Way. "Dedicated to experiencing, learning and
communicating about Ancient Roman civilisation" (from
the website).

http://www.societasviaromana.yucom.be


--- gaiuscoriolanus <jozef.duhacek@siemens.sk> wrote:
> Qurites,
>
> excuse my ignorance, maybe I haven't watched this
> thread very
> carefully. What is SVR? What this abreviation mean
> and can I see its
> website?
>
> Coriolanus
>
--snipped--


Vale bene

=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Aedilis Plebis
Coryphaeus Sodalitatis Musarum
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
civis Novae Romae

***HORUM OMNIUM FORTISSIME SUNT BELGAE***

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Subject:	[novaroma] My kind of Factionism!
From:	"Gaius Cornelius Ahenobarbus" <ahenobarbus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:47:58 -0800

Awright, with all the other discord I've seen on this list, what about
something that those of Antiqua would approve of? Like a Circus Riot? I'm
sponsoring a chariot for the Blues for the Ludi Circenses.
Any other Blues out there? Let's give those Greens what for!

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List Moderation}
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:49:33 -0500

Salve,

On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 09:15:48PM -0300, Michel Loos wrote:
>
> I called in question the influence of your city on our common nation,
> I am severely doubting anything your city does to any other city because
> of the aspiration of your city to hegemony over the world.

I recall a story that may be apropos here; an amusing tale, rather in the
tradition of Plautus, that I consider to be in the "if it's not true, it
should be" category.

- * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -
A large, arrogant man was walking a French poodle down a street. The
poodle, in the way of animals who resemble their masters, was a nasty,
uncontrolled little beast; it barked at everything and everyone, even tried
to nip a few people, while its master stared around haughtily, with an
expression that said "it's *my* dog, and it will do just what it wants to."
However... walking _up_ that same street came a man with a Saint Bernard,
both of them calm and phlegmatic (I suppose that some masters resemble
their animals after a long association.) The poodle, seeing this new
target, came up and started barking at it... but neither the Saint Bernard
nor its owner paid it any attention. Now angry, the poodle jumped right in
front of the much larger dog, yapping at the top of its lungs... when
suddenly, the Saint Bernard reached down and clamped its huge jaws *around
the poodle's head*.

The poodle was clearly still alive; everyone could hear its terrified
screaming (muffled, of course). Its owner, however, had instantly lost his
arrogance as well as a few shades of color.

-- "Oh my God! He's going to bite my dog's head off!"
-- "Nope... don't think so, anyway. Might drown him in slobber, though.
All right, Rex... we might as well get going. Let him out, please."

The Saint Bernard opened his jaws, the poodle (whose pretty grooming had
become a soggy mess), still yiping in terror, ran and hid shivering behind
his master - and Rex and his owner continued down the street as if nothing
happened.
- * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -

Manius Villius Limitanus, I invite you to consider the fate of small dogs
who bark at lions (or their local equivalents). The lion's dignity will -
usually - cause him to ignore the yipping creature; however, the public
perception of the little pest is usually that of disgust and loathing.
Its barking from behind a screen of protection afforded by the majesty of
its target gains it no respect.

I would also advise you to give some careful thought to the opinions that
you express - or more correctly, since they are far from new or original,
espouse - in public. If you should be challenged to provide substance for
your claim about the aspirations of the United States, you would have to
quickly change the subject; there's little down that road other than
ignominy. To quote Daniel Webster on a strongly relevant subject,

"It was a charge, of which there was not only no proof or probability,
but which was in itself wholly impossible to be true. No man of common
information ever believed a syllable of it. Yet it was of that class of
falsehoods, which, by continued repetition, through all the organs of
detraction and abuse, are capable of misleading those who are already far
misled, and of further fanning passion already kindling into flame.
Doubtless it served in its day, and in greater or less degree, the end
designed by it. Having done that, it has sunk into the general mass of
stale and loathed calumnies. It is the very cast-off slough of a polluted
and shameless press. Incapable of further mischief, it lies in the sewer,
lifeless and despised. It is not now, Sir, in the power of the honorable
member to give it dignity or decency, by attempting to elevate it, and to
introduce it into the Senate. He cannot change it from what it is, an
object of general disgust and scorn. On the contrary, the contact, if he
choose to touch it, is more likely to drag him down, down, to the place
where it lies itself."

That is very shaky ground indeed. I recommend backing away... the pollution
by association is likely to take hold at any moment.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quousque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?
-- Cicero, "In Catilinam"

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] In deffense of Limitanus
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 04:23:22 -0500

Salvete, Senator Claudius Salix Davianus:

On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 08:49:25PM -0600, Cl. Salix Davianus wrote:
>
> <<Just because you disagree with Limitanus' views on secession and
> resignation is no means to suggest that he should leave.>>
>
> Limitanus is an extremely valuable member of NR. And his comments both
> about Roman related topics and Nova Roma actual situation are very
> interesting. I think about his roman related questions ans answers nobody
> has nothing to oppose.

I will agree that what little I have seen him post with regard to Ancient
Rome has been valuable; however, I invite you to consider that being
knowledgeable in one field does not prevent a man from being ignorant in
another - nor does it prevent him from being offensive, insulting, or
destructive to society. None of those are mutually exclusive. Even
brilliance is no guarantee of quality; as John Randolph of Roanoake said of
Henry Clay, ""A being so brilliant yet so corrupt, which, like a rotten
mackerel by moonlight, shines and stinks." Note that I claim neither
brilliance nor mackerelhood for the person under discussion.

> About his perceptions of Nova Roma, his opions are very argumented, every
> citizen may to be accord with the views of Limitanus or to be in
> disaccord these views. But I think it is exagerated to judge the hapiness
> or unhapiness of a person within NR, Nerva.

Personally, I agree with this argument on general grounds. "Nova Roma -
Love It Or Leave It" sounds as false and trite as it would in any other
context, and the original suggestion was, in my opinion, improper. However,
I believe the issue has been addressed.

> I think it is dangereous to
> make no distinction between criticism to the actual situation of NR and
> to be a perfidious traitor to the ideals of this honored Republic.

Could you please give an example which would fit the second description?
I'm curious to see how you would differentiate one from the other. Given
that no Brutus of ours can find a Caesar to stab, nor can we slip poison
into each other's amethyst cups, treachery and perfidy either have somewhat
different meanings or are not applicable in this context (personally, I
believe the former.)

In order to have perfidy, you must establish /fides/; much the same applies
to betrayal or treachery. Establishing trust relationships without personal
contact is difficult (I'm not willing to say impossible; I know better.)
Without faith as a base, what is perfidious treason? And is it even possible
for a private citizen to commit it?


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magna vis veritatis quae facile se per se ipsa defendat.
-- N/A

Subject:	[novaroma] Why not join? (Was: RE: Feeleings Nova Roma has against SVR)
From:	"sceptia" <sceptia@yahoo.es>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:35:16 -0000

Salve, amici.

An idea came to me reading all the posts against/for SVR from NR. Did
de old roman felt something similar to their "enemies"/competitors?.
Yes.
Greek world, (culture and language, religion) had a vast influence in
the known world. Romans itself said to be descendants from this world.
It means that they were the same? No.
Politically, the "different" view is always watched suspiciously, when
not in anger. A politician before getting power is always criticising
it. After getting it, he defends that.
Is the eternal struggle of "me" against "she/he". And it doesn't means
that "me" is the good and "she/he" evil. Just different points of
view. Some of them a bit more fixed and correct but different points
of view.
A simple argument as mine can be seen with malice. "ANY point of view
is correct?" would say someone. No. I don't want to remember those who
were real evil ideas.
I know little of SVR, but in its pages I have found interesting ideas,
projects and people. I do not encourage people to take part in
choosing neither NR nor SVR. I do encourage citizens of NR to think,
as a project of wide range, as a good idea for the future, what can be
offered to us in a possible union with SVR and any other "competence"
that can merge in future. I do encourage citizens, especially those
elected to represent our interest in Nova Roma, to wisely measure the
benefits of UNION, not the problems of a eternal fight against those
"he/she" I mentioned.
Roma conquered the Mediterranean countries and improved itself as a
major Empire. Prosperity came always joining, not destroying.
I would not like to hear those stupid words referred to Carthago:
"SVR delenda est."
Think about. Politicians are for agreements, not for wars. That's my
point of view.

Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius.
Citizen.

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Secession from NR?
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 05:15:30 -0500

Salve,

On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 07:14:31AM -0000, darkling_crawler wrote:
>
> Indeed, such a person would be moderated. The key difference is, that
> NR presents itself as both an organisation and a micronation. From
> organisational point of view, it's normal to disallow disruption that
> can harm the organisation. From national point of view: look at many
> modern countries in the west; protest and defamatory attacks on its
> leadership are usual business and go by unpunished (as they should).
> In that aspect, I think NR might have a decision to make here,
> whether they want to be more like an organisation, or more like a
> nation.

I believe that you're ignoring a number of key factors, size among them. A
country with a population in the millions can afford to have not only
diverse political opinions but even those that skirt close to direct
opposition to its ideals. During their formative periods, however,
especially when the population numbered only in the thousands, any dissent
would most likely have been considered equal to treason: times of change
are hard, and even a small slip could destroy a new idea - which is, after
all, what a new nation is. There's a point in cultural development when a
group changes from a command culture (such as an army, or a new colony) to
an exchange culture (what we normally think of as a country). At some point
after that transition, dissent is not only possible but healthy; before
that point, it is neither.

Here in NR we are fortunate that most of those considerations don't apply
to us; we do not have to fight for land, food, or personal survival (at
least not in the context of our micronation), nor was a command structure
required or possible. Given that, though, I do not believe that past
considerations ("we have to choose between X and Y, because X and Y were
the choices for nations in the past") are very applicable. I believe that
what is needed primarily is an understanding of how on-line cultures work,
followed by a perception of how the unique influence that is NR modifies
that context. For now, we rely on standard, time-tested mechanisms such as
mailing lists and moderation; later on, we can expand, adjust, test,
experiment...

As an aside, for those who have problems handling specific personalities or
topics on the list, I recommend yet another mechanism of on-line cultures:
the kill file
<http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/kill-file.html>. A useful
tool indeed... <grin>


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dubitando ad veritatem venimus.
-- Pierre Abelard, "Sic et non?"

Subject:	[novaroma] on SVR - what it is and what it isn't
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <hendrik.meuleman@pi.be>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:26:33 +0200

Salvete Quirites,

I never thought I'd put this list back on "daily messages", but now I did it anyway. O tempora, o mores... :o).

Anyway, I'd like to clear out a few things here. Forgive me for randomly snipping, cutting and pasting from other messages, I hope everyone can follow me, and will read this.


Amulius Claudius scripsit:
<< SVR should not count on a kind response from the majority of our citizens if they are advertising about a "better" organisation called SVR. We all must face the reality that SVR is a competing organisation with Nova Roma. Sure, SVR may not be out to create a new nation, but the same basic ideas and ideals are still shared. It is no secret where the inspiration for the idea of SVR came from. The only major difference between SVR and Nova Roma is that it is run by people with slightly different political perspectives. Although, just because these two organisations are competitive does not mean we cannot have friendly relations. >>

Solaris respondet:
SVR as a whole doesn't officially say it is better than NR. But, deep down, everyone who is involved with either organisation will think his preferred organisation is better - that's fairly natural, I think. And, aside from the micronational and leadership aspect, there are more differences in how we do things. If we were just another NR with different people in it, we would have dried up and fossilised just like the other "splinter groups".

Amulius Claudius scripsit:
<< Still, we must remember that many of the leaders of SVR are discontent past Nova Roma citizens. Some of these past citizens have flamed and publicly insulted our most prestigious magistrates. You cannot expect anything else from some of our leaders than cold feelings towards SVR, if just for this one reason. >>

Solaris respondet:
Agreed. But, to borrow an expression Fortunatus once used, it takes two to tango. No one is innocent here.

(snipped)

***

Lucius Cornelius scripsit:
<< Personally I do not have a problem of a citizen holding both citizenships. However my view tends to change when we have magistrates who are holding offices in both the SVR and Nova Roma. Its a conflict of interest, in my personal opinion. >>

Solaris respondet:
It may be just a slip of the tongue, so to speak, but again: SVR does not have citizenship, but membership. As far as your last point goes, I more or less agree. But it should be up to the individual to decide.

Lucius Cornelius scripsit:
<< Since Nova Roma has been around there have been at least 4 other Roman type micronations. All of them have shutdown. They have all learned how difficult it is to keep a micronation together. The SVR has earned some respect from me for being able to stay around as long as it has. They say that the best compliement one can receive is imitation and that is how I view the SVR. >>

Solaris respondet:
Well, thank you for the compliment. However, while the source of some of our ideas was clearly born here, to say SVR is an imitation would be far-fetched.

***

(snipped)

Gaius Cassius scripsit:
<< I said SVR is a good thing, and this is why. Now that SVR is in existence, there is *no reason* for the chronically discontent to
remain here and sow further discord. Those who advocate secession and those who perpetually gripe about "repression", and non
existent "censorship" and "oligarchy" have a place they can go, founded by like-minded individuals. >>

Solaris respondet:
Partially, yes, although I must add that I'm not particulary fond of negative motivations.

In closing, I have a small thing to say. SVR's chatroom has recently been plagued by an imposter who uses the handle AeliusEricius. What he's doing is fairly innocent, but we suspect that the one who's doing it is from NR (who else would know the real Ericius?). We would appreciate if this person would have a normal chat with us and identify himself, or go home.

Valete bene,
Solaris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Feelings Nova Roma has Against SVR
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <hendrik.meuleman@pi.be>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:48:24 +0200

Salve Gai Marci,

> excuse my ignorance, maybe I haven't watched this thread very
> carefully. What is SVR? What this abreviation mean and can I see its
> website?
>

Okay, I'll try to answer this question as objectively as possible, without
trying to sound like a commercial :o).

SVR stands for Societas Via Romana or "Roman Way" Society. Its website is
www.societasviaromana.yucom.be . Without going into opinions rather than
facts, the main differences are that SVR is (1) no micronation (and as such,
has no citizens, no taxes and no imperium) and (2) while having a study
group for it, does not try to recreate the Religio Romana with all its
priesthoods.

Should you (or anyone else) have more questions, they are free to mail me
privately, as I believe that this doesn't really belong on NR's main list.

Vale bene!
M. Octavius Solaris

Subject:	[novaroma] Comic Relief--Other Micronations
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:13:15 -0000

Salvete,

There have been a few other Roman "micronations" out there and they
are worth mentioning for the sake of comic relief.

ANTONINIA, formerly known as the IMPERIUM ROMANUM NOVUM went
defunct, which means it's emperor and sole citizen is now unemployed.

However, it is now revived under the leadership of Princeps Greg
Pellam. Pellam, a former NR of the Cornelii and self-designated
communist activist, apparently convinced the founder of ANTONINIA to
let him have the web site and name. Under the able leadership of
Princeps Greg {formerly known as Drusus Cornelius Claudius} the group
has undergone a massive 200% membership growth---they have three
citizens now!

Greg has been quite active in the micronation dept. He is also
the 'Emperor' of Solaria, which is also as active as a dead fly, and
was a founder of a third rate Nova Roma imitation which seems
inactive as they never finished their website over the last year.

I guess two failed micronations not being enough, ol Claw is now
trying yet again.

Now ain't you glad you joined the Res Publica?

Gaius Cassius Nerva

Subject:	[novaroma] Application as a translator for German language
From:	tiberius.ann@bluemail.ch
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:28:56 +0200

Salvete omnes, salve Luci Corneli Sulla,

>Why not ... apply to be a translator?

>Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>Consul


As you might have heard once or twice allready, I regularly translated messages
from English into German during the time I am with NR. Therefore I would
like to aplly formaly for the position of translator for the German language.
Some time ago, somebody even told me, that I was allready set for that position,
but since I have never heard anything about it again, I am now wondering,
if I can call myself interpres linguae Germanicae or not.

Yours respectfully, Tiberius Annaeus Otho

Lictor curiatus
paterfamilias Gentis Annaearum
praefectus scribarum Germaniae Superioris
civis Novae Romae

Subject:	[novaroma] Factionism!
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:36:18 -0500 (EST)

Green==Green==Green==Green==Green

Arise Greens!!!! Carry Forward the Honor of Nova Roma!!!! Greens Carry
the Banner of the Right!!!!!!! Greens Forever!!!!

[Blues]-----Bah!!!!! They who represent the night and dark places, like
Trolls under a Bridge!!!

It is the Greens who will carry the day, and will show away the [blues]
to the depths of thier unwholesome places of dark mystery.

Greens Unite!!!!!! Show all the color of victory, of natural beauty,
and above all of bravery, strength, skill, and the Roman Way!!!!!

Greens Forever!!!!!!!

Marcus Minucius Audens====""Banner Green / Chariot Green / Victory
Green!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!""

Green==Green==Green==Green==Green

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: My kind of Factionism!
From:	"g_popillius_laenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:07:40 -0000

Ave fellow Blue!

Look for my charioteer, Cruelicus Maximus, to crush all competition!

Veneta Victor!!!

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

Subject:	[novaroma] More Factionism!
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@telia.com>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 18:07:46 +0200

Salvete Quirites!

I love this kind of fierce conflicts! Are all Nova Romans chickens?
Were are all real men and amazons?

Do You want to join either the Blue, Green, Red or White? Do You have
the courage?

Every player have to send our subscription to piteas@jazzfiesta.com
[Gnaeus Salix Galaicus] or sacro_barese_impero@libero.it [Franciscus
Apulus Caesar] with the subject "Ludi Circensis", within the
following informations:

His/her name in Nova Roma
The name of his/her driver
The name of his/her chariot
His/her tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals (see point 2)
His/her tactics for the Finals (see point 2)
The name of his/her "factio" or team (green, red, blue or white)
1.2) The subscriptions must be sent before April 5, h. 8:00 PM (time of Rome).
1.3) Every player only will send one chariot.

More information can be found at:
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/megalesia/chariotraces.htm

>Green==Green==Green==Green==Green
>
>Arise Greens!!!! Carry Forward the Honor of Nova Roma!!!! Greens Carry
>the Banner of the Right!!!!!!! Greens Forever!!!!
>
>[Blues]-----Bah!!!!! They who represent the night and dark places, like
>Trolls under a Bridge!!!
>
>It is the Greens who will carry the day, and will show away the [blues]
>to the depths of thier unwholesome places of dark mystery.
>
>Greens Unite!!!!!! Show all the color of victory, of natural beauty,
>and above all of bravery, strength, skill, and the Roman Way!!!!!
>
>Greens Forever!!!!!!!
>
>Marcus Minucius Audens====""Banner Green / Chariot Green / Victory
>Green!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!""
>
>Green==Green==Green==Green==Green
>
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Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor of Thule
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an official opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10

Subject:	[novaroma] Comitia Plebis is convened
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:46:05 -0300 (ART)

Tribuni Plebis Cn. Salix Astur, M. Arminius Maior et
Cl. Salix Davianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Ex Officio Tribunorum Plebis.

Run off election for two remaining positions of
Tribunus Plebis

We are hereby officially calling the Comitia Plebis
Tributa to fill the two vacant positions of Tribune of
the Plebs.

The planned Contio will extend from 03 to 08 Aprilis,
and the votation is planned to extend from 08 to 17
Apr.

The present schedule is:
03 Apr. -> Contio begins
08 Apr. -> Voting starts
17 Apr. -> Voting ends

At the start of the Contio, the ballot of candidates
will be published.
Since this is an run off election, to complement the
one of february, no new candidate for Tribunus Plebis
will be accepted in the ballott.

=====
Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Factionism!
From:	labienus@texas.net
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:53:13 US/Central

PRASINA! PRASINA! PRASINA!
(GREEN! GREEN! GREEN!)

They were good enough for Caligula, and they're good enough for me!

We'll bleed the Reds, bruise the Blues, and soil the Whites!

PRASINA! PRASINA! PRASINA!

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Factionism!
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 19:21:24 +0200

labienus@texas.net wrote:
> They were good enough for Caligula, and they're good enough for me!
>
> We'll bleed the Reds, bruise the Blues, and soil the Whites!

Ok, I've been quiet so far...but when you start claiming a dominance
over us whites you will never achieve, my pride speaks for me. The
colour of the first chariot to cross the finish line in the finals WILL
be white!

So don't try to say differently.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

--

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: second anniversary as novaroman citizen
From:	"radams36" <radams40@juno.com>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:30:14 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., "luciuspompeius" <danielovi@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes cives novaromani
> Yesterday was my second anniversary as novaroman citizen. During
this
> time I've found many friends here and also many kind people who
> offered me their help at this hard time. I want to express my most
> sincere gratitude to all of them.
> I'll finish this message by saying that I do feel very glad for
> belonging to this wonderful micronation.
> Maximas gratias omnibus ago
> Habeatis fortunam optimam
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Propraetor provincialis Argentinæ

Congratulations, Pompeius! It's good to have you here! I know things
in Argentina are still not back to normal, but I'm sure I'm joined by
many other cives in hoping for the best for you and your countrymen.
Meanwhile, I hope your friends in Nova Roma afford you some comfort
and solace in difficult times!

Vale bene,

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: second anniversary as novaroman citizen
From:	"radams36" <radams40@juno.com>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:31:51 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., "luciuspompeius" <danielovi@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes cives novaromani
> Yesterday was my second anniversary as novaroman citizen. During
this
> time I've found many friends here and also many kind people who
> offered me their help at this hard time. I want to express my most
> sincere gratitude to all of them.
> I'll finish this message by saying that I do feel very glad for
> belonging to this wonderful micronation.
> Maximas gratias omnibus ago
> Habeatis fortunam optimam
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Propraetor provincialis Argentinæ

Congratulations, Pompeius! It's good to have you here! I know things
in Argentina are still not back to normal, but I'm sure I'm joined by
many other cives in hoping for the best for you and your countrymen.
Meanwhile, I hope your friends in Nova Roma afford you some comfort
and solace in difficult times!

Vale bene,

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Peace!
From:	"radams36" <radams40@juno.com>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:36:45 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Honored Consuls, Magistrates, Senators and Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> As some of you may have been aware, The Honored Junior Consul Lucius
> Cornelius Sulla Felix and I have had a slight disagreement for some
> time. I am pleased to announce that we have jointly decided to end
that
> diagreement suddenly and finally, since it really serves no great
> purpose, and together to embark on a closer and more understanding
> basis.
>
> We got together and cussed each other out for a couple of messages,
and
> then settled down to our real base problems. We have exchanged
> assurances which were mutually agreeable, and have agreed to begin
again
> with clean slates, and nothing left over from before.
>
<SNIP>

> I am very pleased to make this anouncement and I pledge to the
Honored
> Consul my best assurances, as he has to me.
>
> Very Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
Salvete, amice!

Good to hear it, my friend! We all may have our points of
disagreement or contention, but I have always counted yourself and
our good Consul Sulla as among my particularly valued friends here in
Nova Roma - I enjoy both your contributions and healthily respect you
both. Your willingness to work past your differences does you both
great credit (but then, that hardly surprises me). A hearty "Vale
Bene" to you both!

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The fate of famed artifacts...
From:	"deciusiunius" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:52:41 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., "C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@s...> wrote:
> Salve!

Salve,

> Thank you for the quick and quite detailed reply!! I myself would
like
> to think that option 2 was the case, and perhaps one day the altar
will
> be discovered and unearthed from under some Italian farmhouse. The
> recent discoveries at Herculaneum certainly give us some hope that
such
> a thing could be possible!

Salve,

Yes, we can always hope it will be found. It is one of my greatest
hopes.

The pic referred to is of another Altar of Victory. Though we have
descriptions of *the* Altar of Victory, as I recall the only images
we have are from coins. Though there would have been other Altars to
Victory, generally the Altar that comes to mind is *the* Altar of
Victory put into the senate house by Augustus to commemorate his
victory at Actium. During the 4th century this became a symbol of the
conflict between the ascending Christian power and the fading power
of ancient pagan Rome.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius,
Senator Consularis

>
> Vale,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: deciusiunius [mailto:bcatfd@t...]
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 11:39 PM
> To: novaroma@y...
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: The fate of famed artifacts...
>
> --- In novaroma@y..., "C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@s...>
wrote:
> > Salvete,
>
> Salve,
>
>
> > I am curious is there any information regarding the fate of the
> >Altar of Victory, the Palladium or the Sibylline Books? Were they
> >lost or destroyed?
>
> The fate of the first two is unknown though one can speculate, the
> last was mostly destroyed, though fragments have survived into the
> present day.
>
> In the 4th Century the Altar of Victory was removed from and put
back
> into the Senate several times until its likely final removal in 394
> during the reign of Theodosius. What happened to it after that is a
> mystery from what I have been able to determine. At first it was
> probably put into storage in or near the senate curia. Likely it
> remained there for a number of years, even decades until it
appeared
> certain it was not going to be returned to its place of honor in
the
> senate. I have 3 theories as to what happened to it at that point:
1.
> it may have been destroyed at the instigation of some overzealous
> Christian senators or officials, since the Ara Victoriae
represented,
> more than any other item, pagan Rome personified; 2. It may have
> been moved to the private residence of one of remaining members of
> the pagan senatorial aristocracy or a sympathetic Christian senator
> who wished to save it for the future and love of art and history.
> >From there it may have been buried for posterity, fell into ruin
> through years of neglect or turned into building material by the
> family's descendants who did not appreciate what was in their
> possession ; 3. Or it may have stayed in senate storage until being
> taken out and broken into pieces for building material for a wall
or
> new structure, as many ancient artifacts and buildings were that
were
> no longer wanted.
>
> Which scenario is most likely? Least likely I think is option 1.
The
> Christians of Rome did not display the destructiveness of those
> elsewhere, such as in Alexandria. Neglect and barbarians did more
> damage than religious zealots. Still, it is a possibiltity. I am
a
> romantic and like to think option two is what happened, that some
> pagan or Christian senatorial family saved the Ara Victoriae on
their
> property and that eventually it was buried to preserve it or
protect
> it. I am optimistic and hope that it will be found intact. However,
> realistically I am just as inclined to go with option 3, that it
was
> taken out and used for building material for a new structure, or
even
> for road material. If this is the case then it is possible that the
> pieces will be found through archelogical excavation and pieced
> together, as has happened with some artifacts. This is all
> speculation, however.
>
> I am less versed as to what happened to the Palladium. Due to its
> size it could easily have been destroyed or overlooked. I have
heard
> that possibly Constantine had it moved to Constantinople when he
> founded that city. If it was moved there and if it survived the
> iconoclasm of the 7th and 8th centuries, it is not likely to have
> survived the destructiveness of the Turks in 1453.
>
>
> As for the Sibylline books, the books consulted in Rome, stored in
a
> temple on the Palatine as I recall, were destroyed in the late
> 4th/early 5th century. Some 14 books of Sibylline prediction
survive,
> mixed with Christian interpretations, predictions and additions.
> Christian and older pagan material is mixed together in these
books.
> Hopefully someone else can shed more light on these for you as I am
> not as familair with them.
>
> Vale,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladius,
> Senator Consularis
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject:	[novaroma] Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List Moderation}
From:	"radams36" <radams40@juno.com>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:59:10 -0000

--- In novaroma@y..., Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@y...>
wrote:
> Salve,
(SNIP)
> Manius Villius Limitanus, I invite you to consider the fate of
small dogs
> who bark at lions (or their local equivalents). The lion's dignity
will -
> usually - cause him to ignore the yipping creature; however, the
public
> perception of the little pest is usually that of disgust and
loathing.
> Its barking from behind a screen of protection afforded by the
majesty of
> its target gains it no respect.
>
> I would also advise you to give some careful thought to the
opinions that
> you express - or more correctly, since they are far from new or
original,
> espouse - in public. If you should be challenged to provide
substance for
> your claim about the aspirations of the United States, you would
have to
> quickly change the subject; there's little down that road other than
> ignominy. To quote Daniel Webster on a strongly relevant subject,
>
> "It was a charge, of which there was not only no proof or
probability,
> but which was in itself wholly impossible to be true. No man of
common
> information ever believed a syllable of it. Yet it was of that
class of
> falsehoods, which, by continued repetition, through all the
organs of
> detraction and abuse, are capable of misleading those who are
already far
> misled, and of further fanning passion already kindling into
flame.
> Doubtless it served in its day, and in greater or less degree,
the end
> designed by it. Having done that, it has sunk into the general
mass of
> stale and loathed calumnies. It is the very cast-off slough of a
polluted
> and shameless press. Incapable of further mischief, it lies in
the sewer,
> lifeless and despised. It is not now, Sir, in the power of the
honorable
> member to give it dignity or decency, by attempting to elevate
it, and to
> introduce it into the Senate. He cannot change it from what it
is, an
> object of general disgust and scorn. On the contrary, the
contact, if he
> choose to touch it, is more likely to drag him down, down, to the
place
> where it lies itself."
>
> That is very shaky ground indeed. I recommend backing away... the
pollution
> by association is likely to take hold at any moment.
>
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-

Salve, Caius Minucius,

SUBLIMELY well put, indeed (and the poodle story was both relevant
and amusing). I couldn't have put it better - I admired your logic,
appropriate quotations, and very moderate and reasonable tone. It's
posts like this one that make a visit to the ML a true joy.

Vale Bene!

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: on SVR - what it is and what it isn't
From:	"l_equitius" <vze23hw7@verizon.net>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 18:35:18 -0000

Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Omnibus SPD

--- In novaroma@y..., "M. Octavius Solaris" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I never thought I'd put this list back on "daily messages", but now
I did it anyway. O tempora, o mores... :o).

<SNIP>
>
> In closing, I have a small thing to say. SVR's chatroom has
recently been plagued by an imposter who uses the handle
AeliusEricius. What he's doing is fairly innocent, but we suspect
that the one who's doing it is from NR (who else would know the real
Ericius?). We would appreciate if this person would have a normal
chat with us and identify himself, or go home.
>
> Valete bene,
> Solaris

L EQUITIUS: "AeliusEricius", That most likely would be Caius Aelius
Ericius, a former citizen of Nova Roma who was also a Pontifex,
Augur, Senator, Paterfamilias gens Aelii, and is also my friend. If
the one who is in your chatroom is being difficult it would be an
impostor, as Ericius is not one to cause trouble or stay around when
trouble is about. Of course, one persons trouble may not be another's
view of the situation.

Valete

Subject:	[novaroma] Megalesia Cultural Award, closing of accepting subscriptions
From:	Caius Curius Saturninus <insulaumbra@fiasco.fi>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 22:24:52 +0300

Salvete omnes!

The time for taking part to Megalesia Cultural Award competition has
now ended. The number of prticipants in the competition is three, not
too much, but all three submitted works are most finest writings in
quality and our work in the Jury will be though.

The following works has been accepted into competition:
DE BELLO NOVA ROMANO by Marcus Octavius Solaris
ON THE MEGALESIA by Vopisca Iulia Cocceia
A TRAGIC TALE by Marcus Minucius Audens

The jury consists following citizens:
- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (Senior Curule Aedile)
- Marcus Octavius Germanicus (Senior Consul)
- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (Junior Consul)
- Amulius Claudius Petrus (Junior Curule Aedile)
- Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix (Coryphaeus of Sodalitas Musarum,
Senior Aedile Plebis)
- Caius Curius Saturninus (Procurator Academia Thules)
- Marcus Octavius Solaris (the former Coryphaeus of Sodalitas Musarum)

The schedule for Jury work and announcement of the winner is:
April 3 : Deadline to send in works
April 5 : Jury starts to value the works
April 8 : Jury completes the judgement and decide the winner
April 9 : Announcement of the winner

All this and other information about the Megalesia Cultural Award can
be found at:
<http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/megalesia/mca.htm>http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/megalesia/mca.htm

And lastly, as a member of Jury I believe I speak for all the Jury
members when I am thanking all the participants for their work!

Valete,
--
Caius Curius Saturninus

Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Scriba Aedilis (Caeso Fabius Q.) Concursus

e-mail: c.curius@welho.com
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: chariot race
From:	Caius Curius Saturninus <insulaumbra@fiasco.fi>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 22:38:40 +0300

Salve,

To most honourable Propraetor Quintilianus (and why not to everyone else):

Hey-hey-hey... it is so plainly to see, that why even bother to argue
about it? Of course it will be the GREEN one that will win!!!

Vale,


Caeso Fabius wrote:

>Salve Amici!
snip
>Long live the Reds!!!
snip

--
Caius Curius Saturninus

Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Scriba Aedilis (Caeso Fabius Q.) Concursus

e-mail: c.curius@welho.com
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] What'alll the fuss about?
From:	serenusnova@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:57:51 EST

I went to visit the SVR site and read a bit of their archives : I found there
no sign of antagonism, rather a bunch of people who have organised themselves
to share each other knowlegde in different fields.

I do not understand why we are trying to put them down or that some of us
feel threatened...

The truth is that SVR has peace and We have a debate!

Optime valete

A. Octavius Serenus

Subject:	[novaroma] Formation of auxiliary unit
From:	Terry Wilson <pudens656@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:38:59 -0800 (PST)

Avete Omnes,

I am very pleased to announce the organization of Cohors II Italica Civium Romanorum. As was the case with our namesake, we will patrol a savage and remote outer region of the Roman World (Iowa, USA).

It currently is my initial goal to recruit, organize, and equip seven others to form a single contubernium. Anyone, particularly family members, wishing to portray civilians, both Roman and provincial, will be more than welcome.

Developing an accurate portrayal of life in the provincial auxilia will be the paramount object of the group. However, I hope to use it as well to encourage citizenship in Nova Roma. Currently there are not enough citizens in Iowa to form even half a contubernium. It is our hope that Cohors II Italica will be a useful tool in enlarging the population of the Republic.

Any advice, encouragement, questions, or constructive criticism is invited. Of course, recruits are always welcome.

Valete,

Gaius Cornelius Pudens



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: AW: [novaroma] Feelings Nova Roma has Against SVR
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	03 Apr 2002 11:13:52 -0300

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 04:11, 3s@hsk-net.de wrote:
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I see the SVR with mixed feelings.
>
> The SVR is an organization which offers an alternative to Nova Roma. In the past it collected disappointed citizens from Nova Roma, to offer another political system. But they do not declare themselves as a micronation.
>
> As long as Nova Roma is not a "territorial" micronation, with own territory and recognized souvereignty, we will have to deal with organizations like the SVR from time to time. As Consul Sulla remarked, there were several roman micronations besides NR, NR survived it all. Despite all internal conflicts.
>
> Our citizens are free to join any further roman organization they like. That is not a problem until the SVR would be officialy declared as an enemy to NR. The problem are elected or appointed magistrates who are SVR members. Magistrates are required to swear an oath of office, the are required and expected to give their loyality to NR and work for the titles, the powers and honours given to them. To hold offices in both NR and SVR can bring them into difficult situation. Means: If somebody wants to serve, he should decide for only one organization.
>
> This is the real problem I see: Engaged people interested in roman things wants to serve, and they possibly serve in NR and SVR. This does not necessarily mean that they are NR citizens with "mixed feelings" or that they are even hostile to NR. But they can found themselves in difficult situations. Noone can serve two masters with same loyality. And the SVR is in fact another "master" besides NR, micronation or not.
>

This is not necessarely a problem: the master is neither NR nor SVR, the
master is Rome and Romanitas.

Manius Villius Limitanus

> True friendly coexistence would be indeed helpful, and I truly wish that we could create such a coexistence, let aside cooperation. But I see this as quite fictive, since the SVR has strong dissidents from NR within it´s ranks and files. My wishes to our magistrates who are holding offices in the SVR are that they might have the chances, the powers and the will to reach a friendly coexistence, and that they might see their double positions as an obligation to work towards this.
>
> Bene Valete
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
> Censor, Senator
> Propraetor Germaniae
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] What'alll the fuss about?
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:04:17 -0800

Avete Omnes,

You have to read the archieves of both lists. Granted those in the SVR (for the most part) have different names than they did here in NR. But, there is a history.

I will go out on a leap, and say most of us do not feel threatened with the SVR, once again just is that past that needs to be gotten over by both sides. Beyond that, Nova Roma has been around for 4+ years. We have many active citizens, throughout the world and we have been given recognition by many newspapers and other modes of communication throughout the world.

As for debate, there is nothing wrong with debate at all. Its the one thing that is so very Roman! <g> Everyone is able to express their opinions and people can respond to each opinion expressed. How Roman!

Valete Omnes,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma
----- Original Message -----
From: serenusnova@aol.com
To: novaroma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:57 AM
Subject: [novaroma] What'alll the fuss about?


I went to visit the SVR site and read a bit of their archives : I found there
no sign of antagonism, rather a bunch of people who have organised themselves
to share each other knowlegde in different fields.

I do not understand why we are trying to put them down or that some of us
feel threatened...

The truth is that SVR has peace and We have a debate!

Optime valete

A. Octavius Serenus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Factionism!
From:	"Gaius Cornelius Ahenobarbus" <ahenobarbus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:00:05 -0800

Bah! You Greens and Whites talk a lot. But once the flag drops, you'll
race... straight for the vomitoria! And what about the Reds? The color of
blood, Mars and passion? They're passionately hiding out!
Keep your eyes open for Jaculator in his quadriga Phaeton. You'll just see
a blur of Blue!

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: on SVR - what it is and what it isn't
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <hendrik.meuleman@pi.be>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 22:56:18 +0200

Salve Luci Equiti!

> L EQUITIUS: "AeliusEricius", That most likely would be Caius Aelius
> Ericius, a former citizen of Nova Roma who was also a Pontifex,
> Augur, Senator, Paterfamilias gens Aelii, and is also my friend. If
> the one who is in your chatroom is being difficult it would be an
> impostor, as Ericius is not one to cause trouble or stay around when
> trouble is about. Of course, one persons trouble may not be another's
> view of the situation.

It's not Caius Aelius himself; it was him who reported his name being used.
Thanks for trying to help anyway.

Vale optime,
Solaris

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Factionism!
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <hendrik.meuleman@pi.be>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 23:01:11 +0200

Salvete!

The whites will win the race
Moving at the fastest pace
The whites are very keen
On defeating slowest green
But not until the racers from red
Have been gone and dead
And then there's blue
The whites will kill'em too!

Solaris

Subject:	[novaroma] Nation or organisation? (was Secession)
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <hendrik.meuleman@pi.be>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 23:07:11 +0200

Salve Cai Minuci,

> I believe that you're ignoring a number of key factors, size among them. A
> country with a population in the millions can afford to have not only
> diverse political opinions but even those that skirt close to direct
> opposition to its ideals. During their formative periods, however,
> especially when the population numbered only in the thousands, any dissent
> would most likely have been considered equal to treason: times of change
> are hard, and even a small slip could destroy a new idea - which is, after
> all, what a new nation is. There's a point in cultural development when a
> group changes from a command culture (such as an army, or a new colony) to
> an exchange culture (what we normally think of as a country). At some
point
> after that transition, dissent is not only possible but healthy; before
> that point, it is neither.
>

Exactly. That is why I think this nation idea is so half-heartedly. Some
(news)groups have draconic rules, and that's no problem. But when a nation
adopts draconic rules, it gets an entirely different dimension. There's
another possible problem as well. Say that by mutal agreement, the
leadership installs a comamnd culture for the first couple of years. But, as
I have borrowed from Orwell so often, power tends to corrupt... And some
people will try to keep this "command culture". Perhaps not in the current
leadership, but there will always be such invididuals.

> Here in NR we are fortunate that most of those considerations don't apply
> to us; we do not have to fight for land, food, or personal survival (at
> least not in the context of our micronation), nor was a command structure
> required or possible. Given that, though, I do not believe that past
> considerations ("we have to choose between X and Y, because X and Y were
> the choices for nations in the past") are very applicable. I believe that
> what is needed primarily is an understanding of how on-line cultures work,
> followed by a perception of how the unique influence that is NR modifies
> that context. For now, we rely on standard, time-tested mechanisms such as
> mailing lists and moderation; later on, we can expand, adjust, test,
> experiment...
>

I agree.

> As an aside, for those who have problems handling specific personalities
or
> topics on the list, I recommend yet another mechanism of on-line cultures:
> the kill file
> <http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/kill-file.html>. A useful
> tool indeed... <grin>

Vale bene,
Solaris

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Feelings Nova Roma has Against SVR
From:	"Cl. Sl. Davianus" <davius_sanctex@terra.es>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 23:59:19 -0600

Salvete,

>>excuse my ignorance, maybe I haven't watched this thread very carefully. What is SVR? What this abreviation mean and can I see its website?<<

SVR website is:
http://www.societasviaromana.yucom.be/


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Subject:	[novaroma] Fight in chariot races!
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Thu, 4 Apr 2002 00:14:49 +0200

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

I'll partecipate to the Megalesia Ludi Circenses with my chariot Italica and
my Driver "Equus Erectus" as rapresentant of the big Provincia Italia.
If you are real romans, take your chariot and fight! ;-)

Please, ho to
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/megalesia/chariotraces.htm

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre

Subject:	[novaroma] The Chariot Races!
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:51:26 -0500

Salvete Omnes!

I am proud to proclaim the mighty Scorpus of the Blues shall be
defending the honor of Nova Britannia in his swift quadrigae Turbio!
Name sake of the mighty Scopus of Roma Antiquita who won 2,048 races in
his illustrious career, Scorpus shall leave his opponents as so many
naufragia tossed upon a rocky shore. Ave Scopus! Ave Caeruleus!

"I am Scorpus, the glory of the noisy Circus,
the much-applauded and short-lived darling of Rome.
Envious Fate, counting my victories instead of my years,
and so believing me old,
carried me off in my twenty-sixth year."

-Martial, Epigrams 10.53

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Quaestor
Lictor Curiatus
Legate of Massachusetts
Scriba Propraetoris, Nova Britannia


ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius



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