Subject:	Re: [novaroma] WARNING!
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 00:21:03 -0400

On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 02:46:53PM +0200, J. Meuleman wrote:
> Ave Cai Minuci,
>
> Well, I don't use the address described for NR communication, so that
> wouldn't be a problem.
>
> However, thank you for the tips!

Ave,

My pleasure, M. Octavius. In my security classes, I'm always amazed by
the number of people who are shocked - and these are usually experienced
system administrators and other computer professionals - by how easy it
is to crack security via social engineering. It's something of which
most people are totally unaware...

Incidentally, an amusing thought - something that came to me while I was
writing this: between e-mail, Usenet, and the Web,

"All Internet is divided into three parts, one of which the Surfers
inhabit, the Posters another..." <grin>


Vale bene,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Epistula non erubescit.
-- Cicero, "Epistulae ad familiares"

Subject:	[novaroma] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Supporting=20MANIVS=20CONSTANTINVS=20SERAPIO=20as=20a=20Queastor?=
From:	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Marcus=20Iulius=20?= <m_iulius@virgilio.it>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 08:07:40 +0000

MARCVS IVLIVS PERVSIANVS QVIRITIBVS SPD

Cives,
I'm here to support MANIVS CONSTANTINVS SERAPIO as a Quaestor. He is, together
with Propraetor Italia and the other members of Curia Italica, the protagonist
of the reformation of our Province. It's thanks to person like him that
I found such an enthusiasm in NR, avoiding me not to follow many other people
that left our organization before me.

So I say: MANIVS CONSTANTINVS SERAPIO for Queastor!

Vale


Marcus Iulius Perusianus
-------------------------
Scriba ad historia Provinciae Italiae
http://italia.novaroma.org
http://www.geocities.com/milko_anselmi/Roma/georom.htm
-------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Staples
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 00:22:11 -0400

On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 03:05:18PM +0300, rapax@superonline.com wrote:
>
> Salvete....
> Couple of days ago I was watching the History Channel and saw that
> in the legions they were using big staples to heal large wounds.The
> stitching threads made of sinew of the animals often caused infection so
> they invented staples which were I think more practical and
> ...healthy.Though it is not a pretty sight to imagine as those huge metal
> staples driven into your flesh.
> Do you know any such interesting ways of treatment used in the
> legions?

Salve, Hypatia:

I find myself rather doubtful of the validity of that portrayal. Before
the appearance of stainless steel (or passivated titanium, or monel),
poking metal into your flesh and leaving it there was simply a fancy way
to commit suicide: once in contact with blood, ferrous metals would rust
and cause septicemia and tetanus in very short order. The non-ferrous
metals, such as copper, lead, etc. are fairly poisonous in and of
themselves. By the way, correct staple placement is supposed to have
minimal-to-no skin penetration (they are used as a mechanical closure,
rather like a more precise version of clips).

The few references I've been able to find on wound closure in AR have
spoken of sutures and clips (Celsus, ~30AD) and silk/catgut (Galen,
~150AD). Avicenna also mentions suturing with monofilament (pig
bristles).

Adhesive tapes, which were pretty much the first advance after these
techniques, did not come about until the 1500s, in France. On the other
hand, if you're interested in odd techniques, a number of ancient
physicians experimented with ant pincers (mouth parts) for the purpose!


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dictum, factum.
-- Terence, "Heautontimorumenos"

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Curiosity
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 00:27:16 -0400

On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 05:18:17PM -0000, pompeia_cornelia wrote:
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> I received word this morning that somehow the person writing me
> received a 'return mail', or a mailer deamon type message saying that
> their mail *to* Pompeia_Cornelia@yahoo.com was returned. Further, he
> claims he did not send anything to me via this address.

If he got that kind of a message, it means he did. <shrug> It's easy to
mistype an address, especially when it's something like "yahoo.com".

A "mailer-daemon" is only a program that handles mail; in this case, it
was simply rejecting a non-existent address.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Honores mutant mores.

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Staples
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 09:00:23 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Cai Minuci,

> I find myself rather doubtful of the validity of that portrayal. Before
> the appearance of stainless steel (or passivated titanium, or monel),
> poking metal into your flesh and leaving it there was simply a fancy way
> to commit suicide:

I saw this documentary a few months ago; the staples were silver, and the
narrator stated that silver was "hypoallergenic". Being neither a
metallurgist nor a medical professional, I do not know how much truth
there is to that claim.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Staples
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 11:43:23 -0700 (PDT)

Avete Omnes,
I believe silver is bacteroistatic and antigermicidal. At what point Silver nitrate was used in history I am not sure, however it was used as a caustic and antiinfective. As for Silver protein- silver is made colloidal when mixed with protein and then acts as a "germicide, with a local irritant and astringent effect." (Ref. Dorland's Medical Dictionary)
Therefore, it could have very likely been used successfully in staples I believe.
Valete, Maximina Octavia
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> wrote: Salve Cai Minuci,

> I find myself rather doubtful of the validity of that portrayal. Before
> the appearance of stainless steel (or passivated titanium, or monel),
> poking metal into your flesh and leaving it there was simply a fancy way
> to commit suicide:

I saw this documentary a few months ago; the staples were silver, and the
narrator stated that silver was "hypoallergenic". Being neither a
metallurgist nor a medical professional, I do not know how much truth
there is to that claim.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[novaroma] Availabilty of certian Roman Texts?
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 17:36:28 -0400

Salvete,

I was curious if anyone could tell me if the following works survived
and are available in an English translation:

Divine and Human Antiquities by Marcus Terentius Varro

On The Gods by Nigidius Figulus

On Forms of Address by Granius Flaccus

Thanks!


Valete.

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Quaestor
Lictor Curiatus
Legate of Massachusetts
Scriba Propraetoris, Nova Britannia


ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Quaestor Candidacy of C. Serapio
From:	"Cl. Salix Davianus" <davius_sanctex@terra.es>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 23:28:58 -0500

Ave Tiber Apolloni:

I want to congratulate you for your confidence in a man of exceptional character
as is Ianus Minicius Sparsus! I can speak very favourably about him! His contributions,
al least in our province, have been impresive!

[Also my best wishes to the others candidates for quaestor]

----- Original Message -----
From: Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
To: novaroma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Quaestor Candidacy of C. Serapio


Salvete!

This is indeed a splendid idea, Ianus Minicius
Sparcus! If you are both willing to work with me, I
shall certainly use this opportunity to have two such
wonderful assistants.

BTW, I have read your ideas in your last email, and
now I am convinced both of you will do an outstanding
job, no matter who will be elected as quaestor! I wish
both of you all the best in the upcoming quaestor
elections!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Staples
From:	"Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@usa.net>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 12:18:49 -0400

Salve Scaevola et omnes,

I must disagree with you on a point - you say that iron "would rust and
cause septicemia and tetanus in very short order," but this is only if the
metal were contaminated with tetanus or staph bacteria. Rust in and of
itself does not cause septicemia or tetanus. The perception that "rusty
nails cause tetanus" originated from the fact that a rusty nail laying
around outside most likely also has lots of germs on it, so if one steps on
it, it very likely would cause a nasty infection.

Rust itself is non-toxic, and in fact, the red color of our blood comes from
the iron oxide (contained in hemoglobin) which transports oxygen to the
body. Blood does not cause iron to rust because it naturally grabs oxygen,
which is required to rust iron. Also, the iron typically used by the Romans
would not rust as readily as mild steel with which we are most familiar
today. Although copper and lead are toxic, there are many shooting victims
who have survived with lead or copper-jacketed bullets embedded in their
bodies with few ill effects.

The Romans, although ignorant of bacteria, were aware of the benefits of
sterilization, and if they used such a suturing system, probably would have
cleaned the staples in boiling water or flame before use. Of course, if the
skin were not properly cleaned, driving metal staples through it would
certainly have introduced bacteria into the flesh and caused infection. But
if the options were either bleeding to death through a huge gaping wound, or
risking infection by closing it with metal staples, but having a chance to
survive, which would you take? As you pointed out, the proper use of such
staples may not have been to puncture the skin, but to hold it together like
binder clips, which would have reduced the chances of infection.

Of course, this is just my conjecture based on the current discussion (I did
not see the original program). Hopefully new evidence will turn up in the
future will clarify the matter.

Valete,
Tiberius Ambrosius Silvus
-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:fuzzybear@pocketmail.com]On Behalf Of
Caius Minucius Scaevola
Sent: Friday, 10 May, 2002 00:22
To: novaroma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Staples


On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 03:05:18PM +0300, rapax@superonline.com wrote:
>
> Salvete....
> Couple of days ago I was watching the History Channel and saw
that
> in the legions they were using big staples to heal large wounds.The
> stitching threads made of sinew of the animals often caused infection
so
> they invented staples which were I think more practical and
> ...healthy.Though it is not a pretty sight to imagine as those huge
metal
> staples driven into your flesh.
> Do you know any such interesting ways of treatment used in the
> legions?

Salve, Hypatia:

I find myself rather doubtful of the validity of that portrayal. Before
the appearance of stainless steel (or passivated titanium, or monel),
poking metal into your flesh and leaving it there was simply a fancy way
to commit suicide: once in contact with blood, ferrous metals would rust
and cause septicemia and tetanus in very short order. The non-ferrous
metals, such as copper, lead, etc. are fairly poisonous in and of
themselves. By the way, correct staple placement is supposed to have
minimal-to-no skin penetration (they are used as a mechanical closure,
rather like a more precise version of clips).

The few references I've been able to find on wound closure in AR have
spoken of sutures and clips (Celsus, ~30AD) and silk/catgut (Galen,
~150AD). Avicenna also mentions suturing with monofilament (pig
bristles).

Adhesive tapes, which were pretty much the first advance after these
techniques, did not come about until the 1500s, in France. On the other
hand, if you're interested in odd techniques, a number of ancient
physicians experimented with ant pincers (mouth parts) for the purpose!


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dictum, factum.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] SUPPORTING MANIVS CONSTANTINVS SERAPIO AS QUAESTOR !!
From:	"secundus_quirinus_vitus" <samuele_v@yahoo.it>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 21:11:30 -0000

SECUNDUS QUIRINUS VITUS QUIRITIBUS S.P.D.

Salvete Cives of Nova Roma!
I write to You for supporting the Augustus Manius Constantinus
Serapio as Quaestor in Nova Roma!
He works really hard for our Provincia Italica and the results are
sensationals! Thanks to him,a lot of new cives have joined the
Provincia Italica and our Mailing List. He works seriously for us and
I'm sure that You will not regret to have his working capacity at
your service.
Thanks for your attention and vote Manius Constantinus Serapio for
Quaestor,you will thanks us!!

VALETE!

Secundus Quirinus Vitus
Scriba Militarium et Gladiatoriae Provincia Italica
Decurione Curia Italica
http://italia.novaroma.org

Subject:	[novaroma] Quaestor Candidacy of I. Minicius Sparsus
From:	"Ianus Minicius Sparsus" <jfernandez50@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 20:04:20 +0200

Salve Quirites,

Please... don't forget it!. :-).

I. Minicius Sparsus
Scriba Propraetoris Hispaniae
- Candidate for Quaestor -


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Staples
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 May 2002 14:02:52 -0400

On Fri, May 10, 2002 at 09:00:23AM -0500, Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> Salve Cai Minuci,
>
> > I find myself rather doubtful of the validity of that portrayal. Before
> > the appearance of stainless steel (or passivated titanium, or monel),
> > poking metal into your flesh and leaving it there was simply a fancy way
> > to commit suicide:
>
> I saw this documentary a few months ago; the staples were silver, and the
> narrator stated that silver was "hypoallergenic". Being neither a
> metallurgist nor a medical professional, I do not know how much truth
> there is to that claim.

Salve, M. Octavius,

Silver is indeed hypoallergenic; however, allergies are not the problem
- septicemia and tetanus (the chance of this last, however, would be
decreased due to the non-ferrous nature of silver) are. As well, the
precision instruments needed to clamp the staple while maintaining good
edge alignment, the knowledge that debridement (excision of damaged
tissue) is necessary to create those even edges, the anesthetics and the
coagulants needed for _that_ procedure, etc. - none of these existed
either. I.e., it's possible, but highly unlikely.

A caveat: IANAD (I Am Not A Doctor), although I was a medic while in the
Army. The above knowledge comes simply from the little bits of medical
info that I have come across, and not any formalized system of learning.


Vale bene,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Aquila non captat muscas.