Subject:	[novaroma] Vestals in Nova Roma
From:	"Marilde Goliardi Perdomo" <gmarilde@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 26 May 2002 23:12:17 -0300

Salvete,

Some days ago I had the idea of writing to you about this and since that
moment I started to fear your reactions. But the seriousness of the topic is
stronger than my timidity.
You are extremely cultured people, you know and you love Rome, it's
fascinating to see the grade of attachment you have to the Eternal City.
Nevertheless I believe that you should not try to imitate all the aspects of
the roman religious organization. Because I modestly think that you are not
prepared.
Of course you know that the six Vestal Virgins were chosen by the Pontifex
maximus among the children of the Patricians and that those little girls
(between 6 and 10 years old) had the obligation to remain virgins for thirty
years: ten for the initiation in the misteries and sacrifices to the
Goddess, other ten for the sacrifices and the last for teaching. And then
they could get married.
This is what I meant for "not prepared". I can't believe that you,
New Romans, are capable of reproducing this entire system of life.
Let me explain, to be virgin it's not enough. The girl must have been
dedicated to the Goddess and initiated at that early age.
Please, don't get angry with me. If some day you have your own land and you
want to pay respects to Vesta in the correct way that will be wonderful.
Those gods were powerful and maybe they still are.
And those ancient women deserve our respect too.
I suggest that you should wait to see if it's possible to have Vestals or
not. The waiting can take long decades, but it's better than any
improvisation.
That is all I feared to say to you. I didn't want to criticize, I want Nova
Roma to have Vestals NOW but I know that it's almost imposible.
If you Pontifices et Censores think I have been insolent and you want me to
leave Nova Roma I will understand.
Please, notice that I never judged your love for Rome.

Multas gratias,
Valeria Constantinia Iuliana.

_________________________________________________________________
Descargue GRATUITAMENTE MSN Explorer en
http://explorer.yupimsn.com/intl.asp.

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Voting has begun
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 09:25:16 -0700

Ave,

The link is not on the website, when will it be available?

Vale,

Sulla

Matt Haase wrote:

>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Please go and cast your votes for Quaestor and for the proposed laws
> in the Comitia Populi Tributa and Comitia Centuriata.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT


>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Vestals in Nova Roma
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 13:20:19 EDT

In a message on 5/27/2002 Valeria Constantinia Iuliana writes:

Some days ago I had the idea of writing to you about this and since that
moment I started to fear your reactions. But the seriousness of the topic is
stronger than my timidity.

Cassius respondit:
My apologies for any negative responses that may come from your post. It is
clear that you are sincere in what you are saying, so it is better that you
have spoken rather than be silent.

Valeria Constantinia:
You are extremely cultured people, you know and you love Rome, it's
fascinating to see the grade of attachment you have to the Eternal City.
Nevertheless I believe that you should not try to imitate all the aspects of
the roman religious organization. Because I modestly think that you are not
prepared.

Cassius:
Perhaps you are right. But it seems more likely that if we were to wait until
we *are* 'prepared', we would never be able to gather enough people or
infrastructure to even begin. We prefer to do what may be done than take the
risk of nothing being done. Faulty first steps may be corrected in time -
but one cannot correct steps that are never taken at all.

Valeria Constantinia:
Of course you know that the six Vestal Virgins were chosen by the Pontifex
maximus among the children of the Patricians and that those little girls
(between 6 and 10 years old) had the obligation to remain virgins for thirty
years: ten for the initiation in the misteries and sacrifices to the
Goddess, other ten for the sacrifices and the last for teaching. And then
they could get married.

Cassius:
This is certainly true. Yet this is not an isolated aspect of Roman life. ALL
positions in Roman society were taught by years of immersion in tradition.
Vestals were not the only ones with years of training. The training of
Senators, orators, lawyers, soldiers, and all the other priesthood was also
begun early.

Valeria Constantinia:
This is what I meant for "not prepared". I can't believe that you,
New Romans, are capable of reproducing this entire system of life.
Let me explain, to be virgin it's not enough. The girl must have been
dedicated to the Goddess and initiated at that early age.
Please, don't get angry with me. If some day you have your own land and you
want to pay respects to Vesta in the correct way that will be wonderful.
Those gods were powerful and maybe they still are.
And those ancient women deserve our respect too.
I suggest that you should wait to see if it's possible to have Vestals or
not. The waiting can take long decades, but it's better than any
improvisation.

Cassius:
But of course, it would be the same for ALL OTHER priesthood as well. Early
training was not exclusive to the Vestals. One would train from youth as a
Camillus or Camilla before having enough experience in the Religio to attain
almost any priesthood. Does that mean that it is therefore impossible to
reestablish Roman priesthoods? In my opinion, no. It simply means that we
must do as best we may until tradition can support itself and be 'tradition'
again.

Valeria Constantinia:
That is all I feared to say to you. I didn't want to criticize, I want Nova
Roma to have Vestals NOW but I know that it's almost imposible.
If you Pontifices et Censores think I have been insolent and you want me to
leave Nova Roma I will understand.
Please, notice that I never judged your love for Rome.

Cassius:
I myself welcome your concerns, and invite you to stay among us even if you
should hold a different opinion or find us at fault. You are obviously
motivated by a love for Rome, and that is more valuable than the side one
takes in any debate.

Please do understand that we have been just as concerned with these questions
since the founding of Nova Roma as you are now. It is a delicate balance
between what is 'right', what is 'possible', and 'what may be done in the
modern world'.

We occasionally hear from people that say that some, or ALL of what we are
doing cannot be done. If we listen to them and stop, then they are *surely*
correct. Yet if we continue to do our best and succeed, we do it not to
disprove the views of anyone else. We do it because it is a worthy and
meaningful task in and of itself, larger than personal opinions on any side.


Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] RE: [ReligioRomana] Re: Vestals in Nova Roma
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <antonio.grilo@inov.pt>
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 18:39:27 +0100

Salve Valeria Constantinia

Adding to the answer of the Pontifex Maximus...

> Valeria Constantinia:
> You are extremely cultured people, you know and you love Rome, it's
> fascinating to see the grade of attachment you have to the Eternal City.
> Nevertheless I believe that you should not try to imitate all the aspects
of
> the roman religious organization. Because I modestly think that you are
not
> prepared.
> Of course you know that the six Vestal Virgins were chosen by the
Pontifex
> maximus among the children of the Patricians and that those little girls
> (between 6 and 10 years old) had the obligation to remain virgins for
thirty
> years: ten for the initiation in the misteries and sacrifices to the
> Goddess, other ten for the sacrifices and the last for teaching. And then
> they could get married.
Yes, we know it.

> Valeria Constantinia:
> This is what I meant for "not prepared". I can't believe that you,
> New Romans, are capable of reproducing this entire system of life.
> Let me explain, to be virgin it's not enough. The girl must have been
> dedicated to the Goddess and initiated at that early age.
> Please, don't get angry with me. If some day you have your own land and
you
> want to pay respects to Vesta in the correct way that will be wonderful.
> Those gods were powerful and maybe they still are.
> And those ancient women deserve our respect too.
> I suggest that you should wait to see if it's possible to have Vestals or
> not. The waiting can take long decades, but it's better than any
> improvisation.
We agree completely. That is why we have no Vestal Virgins for now. As an
alternative, in order to keep Vesta attended as good as possible we have
elected a Sacerdos Vestae. What is a "sacerdos vestae"? It's just a
"priestess of Vesta" who will try to keep Vesta as happy as possible taking
into account the reality of Nova Roma and the preparation work that has
still to be done.
We know from inscriptions that Flamen posts are sometimes indicated as
"sacerdotes" and several scholars say that a most probable reason was that
imperial Flamines had a statute very similar to the Flamen of Iuppiter in
Rome, which means that his selection was subject to strict conditions and
his life was subject to many many rules. As candidates for these posts were
difficult to find, a "sacerdos" would be a good replacement while no
candidates could be found. A similar approach was followed on the selection
of the "sacerdos Vestae". It's just a solution of compromise.

Vale bene
Graecus
(Pontifex)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] New citizen
From:	"flaccusnero" <corvus@centrum.sk>
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 13:48:59 -0000

Salvete,

I'm Oppius Constantinus Flaccus Nero, new member of honorable Gens
Constantina.


Valete

Oppius Constantinus Flaccus Nero

Subject:	[novaroma] Re
From:	klconley@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 13:56:24 -0400 (EDT)

Salve:
I have just applied for membership in Nova Roma through Gens Octavia.
I have aways had a very special love for Rome. When I was 13 years of
age, I learned of Rome for the first time when my school class began
studing ancient history. I fell in love with Rome and decided then to
become a Roman. I gave myself the Roman name of Antonia Octavia and
decorated my room as much as possible like a Roman bedroom. I read
books on Roman history and philosophy at the age of 13. I had ideas
and plans way back then for something like Nova Roma but this was in
the 60s', so for course, there was no Nova Roma. The few people that I
spoke with about my ideas thought I was nuts. I stayed Roman for
nearly 10 years, at least until my early 20s. After marriage, job
and household duties kicked in, I had no more thoughts of Rome but
after finding your wonderful website, I am again very much interested
in Rome. I am hoping to hear soon about my membership in Nova Roma.
Antonia Octavia

Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN [ReligioRomana]: ante diem VI Kalendas Iunias (May 27th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <antonio.grilo@inov.pt>
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 21:11:17 +0100

ANTONIVS GRYLLVS GRAECVS PONTIFEX OMNIBVS CIVIBVS SALVTEM

This is a dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens can vote on
political or criminal matters.

Today is the first day of the anual feast of Dea Dia. This feast is moveable
and takes place on 17, 19 and 20 May if the year (counting AUC) is even and
27, 29 and 30 May if the year is odd. The present year corresponds to 2755
AUC and hence the feast of Dea Dia starts on 27 May.
The Collegium of priests responsible for the feast is that of the Fratres
Arvales (Arval Brothers) whose College, probably extinct by the late
Republic, was restored by Emperor Augustus. We have quite accurate
information about their liturgy because it is described in detail in the
surviving Act of the college (Acta Fratrum Arvalium).
The feast of Dea Dia was celebrated in the sacred wood of La Magliana (9 km
from Rome following the Via Campana). The feast honoured Dea Dia in first
place, but also Mars, the Lares and their mother Mater Larum, the Semones
who watch the seeds on Earth.
In the first day, the sacrifice took place at dawn at the home of the
President of the Fratres Arvales. The Fratres wore the toga praetexta, and a
bands around the head. Firstly, the President touched cereals (both green
and dry) and pieces of bread enveloped in laurel, and then he perfumed Dea
Dia.
Then, each of the other Arvales sacrificed wine and incense to Dea Dia,
touched the cereals with the pieces of bread enveloped in laurel, and then
perfumed the goddess. Then, they sat on chairs and each received a
"sportula" of 10 denarii.
After midday, after bathing and dressing white clothes, the President
reclined and shared a banquet with the goddess (this rite is called a
'lectisternium'). A few children, sons and daughters of Senators whose
parents were still both alive, assisted the lectisternium. After the
banquet, the President washed his hands and sacrificed wine and incense to
Dea Dia. The children, dressing the toga pretexta, and public slaves
assisted the sacrificer, carrying the offerings to the altar of Dea Dia.
Crowned with laurel, the President ate the dessert.

Di vos bene ament

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Praefectus Britannia
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 16:14:42 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I am very pleased to announce the newest member of the Sodalitas
Eggressus Senior Staff. Acting-Praefectus for Provincia Britannia, Gaius
Lanius Falco.


Mr. Falco has been encouraged to recruit an assistant Praefectus (Senior
Scriba) who is a resident from the Provincia Britannia to assist him in
this effort. Roman Britain was and is to this day an extremely
important and very well documented part of the Roman Empire.

Past problems in Provincia Britainnia have effectively placed this
Sodalitas and it's efforts there under something of a shadow**, and
until this "shadow" may effectively be erased, it is my feeling that
this research should be pursued by anyone with a real interest in the
subject. Acting-Praefectus Falco seems to me to be one such. I have
been engaged in such research for some time now, and will continue to do
so, and now Master Falco will actively assist me. My sincere thanks for
his acceptance of this offer.

Please welcome Master Falco to the Sodalitas as a member of the Senor
Staff.

Anyone desiring to learn more about or to join the Sodalitas Egessus can
get the information by reviewing the Egressus Web-site or by contacting
myself or Beneficarius Strabo with your questions. Sodalitas Egressus
is devoted to a many-faceted outreach program designed to make the
outside world aware of us, and to make Nova Romans more aware of the
ancient Roman Republic and Empire. We currently have several Praefecti
and Acting-Praefecti working in (among other provinces) Italy, Eastern
Europe, North Africa, Western Europe, Thule and areas of the U.S. If
anyone is interested in our efforts as stated above, please be welcome
to message our web-list, review our web-site, or contact those mentioned
above.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Praefectus Fabrum -- Sodalitas Egressus -- Nova Roma

** In the past the Praefectus Fabrum has been accused of disruption of
Provincia Britannia resulting in the resignation of some highly placed
Provincial Officers. The accusation was untrue, but those who were
active members at that time chose to believe otherwise. In my view, a
"shadow" still remains, to some degree, over Egressus because of it.

MMA

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Praefectus Britannia
From:	"mcserapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 20:59:59 -0000

AVETE OMNES

My congratulations to acting Praefectus for Britain Gaius Lanius
Falco. I am sure he will do an excellent job within the Sodalitas
Egressus and his collaboration concerning Britain will be very useful!

Welcome!

VALETE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Dominus Praefectus - Sodalitas Egressus

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Praefectus Britannia
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@telia.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 23:17:03 +0200

Salvete Honorable Gaius Lanius Falco!

I congratulate You to your appointment as Acting Praefectus for
Britain! I am sure that You will be a very good addition to the
Senior Staff of the Sodalitas Egressus. Good Luck!
--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor of Thule
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an official opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: New citizen (Oppius Constantinus)
From:	"mcserapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Mon, 27 May 2002 21:56:11 -0000

AVE OPPI CONSTANTINE FLACCE NERO

I welcome you to Nova Roma! As probably our Pater Familias already
told you, I would be pleased of communicating with you.
I will soon create an english version of our Gens' Website, and
will put your name in the member list.

Please, contact me if you are interested in collaborating with me.
I have several projects you could be interested in.

VALE BENE, FRATER
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Dominus Praefectus Italiae Europaeque Orientalis
Sodalitas Egressus
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Italiae
-----------------------------------------
Gens Constantinia: http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/constantinia
My Page: http://italia.novaroma.org/serapio
Provincia Italia: http://italia.novaroma.org