Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Citizenship Dates
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:42:40 -0000

Salvere,

>>I can see that I have officially been a civis since the first of
July, 1998 CE.<<

Only my friend the noble T. Labienus Fortunatus would feel it
necessary to add "C.E." to the above date lest anyone mistakenly
conclude he had been a civis since 1,998 years before the reign of
Tiberius!

Valete,
G. Popillius Laenas


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legio XIV Cohors II of Ohio
From:	"corvus_cassius_taurusis" <corvus_cassius_taurusis@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:57:54 -0000

It is my extreme pleasure to announce the formation of a second cohors
to Legio XIV in the state of Ohio.
Its commanding member can be reached at warhammerpriest@hotmail.com
He's a veteran re-enactor, so is experienced and can train others in
the skills/art/hobby of re-enacting.

It is very exciting to have a brother legion forming here in the
midwest! He has the bare begining of their web page at
http://devoted.to/XIV

Please give a show of support to this new undertaking. We all know
how hard it is to begin a new unit, much less on the ground floor as
we in the midwest are in the roman era!

To Legio XIV Cohors II of Ohio AVATTE!!!

Corvus Cassius Taurusis
Optio of Legio XIV Cohors I of Wisconsin


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Flavius Aetius
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@yahoo.com.au>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:23:50 +1000 (EST)

Salve,

I get the feeling that Aetius was born probably about
the same time as Gaiseric, as he was sent to the Goths
around 402AD as a hostage, and he was claimed to have
been a youth then. Anyone have any firmer dates or
deductions than this?

Vale bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

--- qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
In a message dated 6/15/02 5:06:49 PM Pacific Daylight
Time, 
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com writes: 
 
 
> A popular account of the life of Flavius Aetius
can be found in MEDIEVAL 
> WARLORDS by Tim Newark 
 
I have this scanned for Adobe. 
 
Q. Fabius Maximus 
 
 
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed] 
 
</tt>

 
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] On the Lex Cornelia Senatoria
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <hendrik.meuleman@pi.be>
Date:	Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:55:30 +0200

Salve Quinte Fabi et salvete Quirites,

> I have returned to find rioting in the streets of Rome! And for what
> purpose? Because of a proposed law that the Illustrious Cornelius Sulla
> wishes to put forth to the people. Mark that well now, a proposed law.
Not
> an edict. It would be something the people would decide, presumably after
> the Senate issued their comments on the subject.
>
> So, for those who wish to watch Roman law making in action, here is your
> chance. Because you have seen two of our most powerful leaders calling
each
> other names, and flinging dung at each other. Shocking? Not really.
This
> was the constant state of affairs in the late Republic, Consuls Cornelius
> Sulla and Octavius, represent the worst in historical Roman leadership,
> unless of course, you like dictatorships. And like their namesakes our
two
> consuls are locked in a collusion course. I on the other hand hail from
the
> middle republic. A much saner time.

MOS: It was as insane as any other time. Only was it a little more stable I
guess. And if you're really hailing from the middle republic, I congratulate
you on your extremely high age, my friend. The Res Publica from earlier
times is dead, and Nova Roma is something vastly different in my opinion.

> So what is this all about, you may ask?
> Simply stated, it is about power. Who will have it, and who will lose it.
A
> great man once said "When we are in doubt in how Nova Roma shall conduct
> itself, we will look to ancient Rome for our answers." The problem here,
is
> because the unwritten Roman constitution changed through out its history
we
> cannot look to ancient Rome for answers. Because the answers themselves
> contradict.
> In our early inception of our republic, we have back engineered offices of
> the republic, that corresponds with the greatest glory of the republic,
the
> middle. After the post Punic wars, Rome was on a period of conquest, and
> self discovery. Empires fell before the legiones, the Macedonian,
Seleucids,
> Ptolmaics, Illyrians, even Greece. Rome became rich. Based on its slave
> economy, and plunder Rome reached its pinnacle. Some of the greatest
figures
> of the republic lived during this time or would be born.

MOS: Such as?

> Alas, our dictator for whatever his reason, me thinks lack of research
> frankly, saddled these offices with an office from the late republic, one
> that was so corrupt that Augustus Caesar himself ordered its abolishment.
I
> speak about the Censorship.
>
> The censorship of course was not only in the late republic, it was in the
> earlier as well, but in its early days it checked financial considerations
> for employment of the legiones, wealth determined the Roman citizen's
place
> in the ranks, and most important, wealth determined the two highest
classes
> of citizens, the Senators, and the Knights. It was up to the censors to
> ascertain this. This was done through the census. The censor would sit
on
> his platform, in the campus and citizens would come forth one by one, and
> give their assests. Based on this info, the censor would assign the
citizen
> his place in the levy and determine his tributum (property tax) to the
state.
> This was done every two years, and as Rome increased in size, every five
> years.
> Now the original Senators were political appointees of the Rex, as his
> advisers, and when the kingship was abolished this same practice continued
> with the Consuls. It would appear that a "spoils system" was in place, as
> Consuls rewarded their friends with seats on the marble benches.
> Consider the upheaval, Romans, as Senators came and went, loyal to the
consul
> of the moment.

MOS: Also consider this upheaval: up until this day, no new Consul has ever
come from outside the Senate.

> This changed in mid 300s, as the censors who up to now had been patricians
> only, could now be plebeians in the office. This meant that pelebians
could
> be allowed entry to the senate. The lex told the censors to pick the best
> qualified, but a Senator, patrician or plebe, now had to have a certain
sum
> of money to be a senator. While this seemed harsh, it makes sense. The
> Senate was often involved in long deliberations, and unless the members
were
> independently wealthy, they could not take part, being forced to work to
> survive.
> By Polybios time (150s) the censors are not even mentioned in regards to
his
> brilliant work of comparison of the governments of the Romans and Greeks.
> They are included within the Senate. He makes it very clear, the Senate
> chose its members, and dismissed them. Presumably, the censors checked on
> the qualifications. But if nominees passed they were in the senate.
>
> Which brings us to the Nova Roman censors. Our censors determine who our
new
> senators will be. They can accept input from the consuls and the Senate,
but
> they make the final determination, with no set guidelines, and worse, they
> are under no timetable to do ANYTHING!
>
> We saw this appallingly manifested recently. The Senate had put forth its
> nomineees, even issued a Consultum and clearly demonstrated they wished
these
> persons to be confirmed. In a powerplay, I know no other way to describe
it,
> the censors defied the wishes of the senate, its consuls, picked its own
> candidates, which is NOT what the constitution says. They must accept
input
> from the consuls and the senate.

MOS: The reasoning applied here could easily be reversed: the proponents of
Sulla's ideas are simply against the Censors' choices and try to find a way
out of it. Oh, who said again that this was about power? Mind you, though, I
agree not only on historical basis, but also on ideological basis, that new
Senate members should best be appointed without that heavy an influence from
the Censors.

> By doing this, the censors for all intents became "kingmakers" something
that
> only happened in the late Republic, where a bribe to a censor could get
one
> on the Senate.
> This PROPOSED law, not an edict, not a deceleration, will limit the power
of
> the censors, get them to respond to the senate's request in a timely
matter,
> something that the constitution does not FORCE them to do, and set forth
> qualifications of Senators, something else that does not exist right now
in
> the constitution. And it will reward Provincial Praetors for their hard
work
> for Rome's benefit.

MOS: After three years. If they are lucky, when the Senate feels inclusive.

> So you see Romans, you may now watch our mighty republic as it redefines
its
> constitution, something that you all will take part. But instead of just
> voting for a lex, you will watch as it becomes law.
> Since it is only a proposal, not even debated in the senate yet, as a
> Advocate of Roman law,
> I have to say the Illustrious Consul Octavius' veto of his colleagues
> proposal was premature and illegal. Had Cornelius Sulla attempted to make
> this PROPOSED lex a edictum, Consul Octavius would be within his right
under
> the imperium granted by the college, to impose his intercessio on said
> edictum. Had it been voted into law, which it clearly has not, he could
also
> attempt a veto, but more correctly this would be done by the Tribunes, if
> they felt the spirit of the Nova Roman constitution had been violated by
said
> lex.
> Thank you for listening, Romans. Fortuna preserve our republic!

MOS: Yes, and Fortuna changeth the name of the law, for it is wrong. I think
it should be "Lex Cornelia de Senatu" or "Lex Cornelia de Senatoribus".

Valete bene,
M. Octavius Solaris


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia Senatoria
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <hendrik.meuleman@pi.be>
Date:	Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:11:33 +0200

Salve Luci Corneli,

(snipped)

> Right, the Senate not the Main List under public scrutiny. The removal
> of a Senator is something that should be handled in public where our
> citizens can see exactly why it is being done. Instead all debate
> occurred in a list where 99% of our citizens were unable to see the near
> chaos it caused, until Flavius Vedius breached Senatorial
> Confidentiality. This is entirely wrong and I request our Tribunes to
> draft an Open Governmental Act, in order to prevent our magistrates from
> acting in secret especially when it comes to the removal of Board
> members who have a direct say in the policies of Nova Roma!

MOS: Especially if they have nothing to say at all. I recall being
acquainted with some (ex-)Senatores here who spoke of "zombie Senatores" who
did nothing at all. I wonder what is so wrong in removing members of a BOD
who don't do *anything whatsoever*. What is this? A battle over corpses and
cadavres?

(snipped)

> And I am
> disappointed in your maintaining your position that Censors have the
> right to treat citizens with utter disrespect,

MOS: I recall a certain group of ex-citizens saying the same when you were
Censor. Peculiar how things can change!

> I disagree, the Censores have the potential to cause more damage to the
> respectability of Nova Roma because they can act unilaterally at their
> whim. We are bound to present laws to the Comitia and thus must seek
> the approval of the People of Nova Roma. Censors have the ability to
> file Secret Nota's on anyone for any reason PERIOD. Censores have the
> ability to remove a Senator from the Album Senatorium in secret for any
> reason and what's worse is that they have tried to do so already! So
> respectfully, colleague, I believe the Censors can be a more dangerous
> office than that of Consul. Remember if Flavius Vedius did not breech
> Senatorial confidentiality even today the Public would have NO knowledge
> that our Censores tried to remove two Senators.

MOS: Is this "confidentiality" legislated, actually?

Vale bene!
M. Octavius Solaris


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] After Action Report -- Roman Days -- 2002
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:14:59 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete Cives,

Roman Days photos are now available at:

http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/rd2002/index.html

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: After Action Report -- Roman Days -- 2002
From:	"cassius622" <cassius622@aol.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:08:03 -0000

Salve,

WOW! Excellent work, not only with taking the photos, but arranging
them so well on the site. This small photo journal really makes the
event come alive. AVE Consul Octavius, for your fine effort! :)

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@c...> wrote:
> Salvete Cives,
>
> Roman Days photos are now available at:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/rd2002/index.html
>
> Valete, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Cornelia Senatoria
From:	"cassius622" <cassius622@aol.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:25:08 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "M. Octavius Solaris" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:

> MOS: Especially if they have nothing to say at all. I recall being
acquainted with some (ex-)Senatores here who spoke of "zombie
Senatores" who did nothing at all. I wonder what is so wrong in
removing members of a BOD who don't do *anything whatsoever*. What is
this? A battle over corpses and cadavres?

Salvete,

I'm afraid this particular complaint is inaccurate. Those ex-Senators
you've been talking with must be having a fun time exaggerating the
truth... out 21 Senators at present only TWO have been inactive due
to work and computer issues. The Senate is hardly rife with people
sitting around doing nothing.

Also, there is now a Law in place which gives a legal procedure for
the removal of any Nova Roman Senator who does not participate. This
will ensure that any Senator who does not do their job over the
course of a year will be removed at the end of that year. The Senate
in fact agrees that members of the BOD who are inactive should lose
their position to other Citizens who *will* be active. The two
Senators mentioned may well lose their position by the end of this
year if they are unable/unwilling to do the duties they were chosen
for.

Anyway, the discussion over the "Lex Cornelia Senatoria" simply
should have started in the Senate first. That way major problems can
be ironed out in a smaller forum, before being presented to the
larger forum of the main list.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Master James McArthur
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:37:43 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes,

a warm welcome to James McArthur.
BTW, what is the SCA? (excuse my ignorance...)

Valete,

--- radams36 <radams36@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Ladies and Gentlemen;
> >
> > I am pleased to introduce to you a friend of long
> standing, Master
> James
> > McArthur. He is, as he has indicated, been long
> involved with SCA,
> and
> > is also a member of the SCA Nautical List, an
> organization to which
> I
> > was appointed Diplomatic Legate some time ago. He
> is to my mind an
> > intelligent gentleman who does excellent research,
> and has been
> helpful
> > to me in the past on the above list in several
> different venues.
> >
> > I am pleased to welcome him to the Nova Roma List,
> and very pleased
> to
> > be able to sponsor his request for Citizenship. I
> have invited him
> to
> > join Militarium, due to his naval interest, and I
> present him to
> you as
> > a swordsman of the first class. He may not be
> immediately familar
> with
> > the gladius, but his other skills I am sure will
> "take up the
> slack," as
> > the saying goes. Please welcome to Nova Roma, the
> application of
> James
> > McArthur for Citizenship in our micrnation.
> >
> > Respectfully;
> >
> > Marcus Minucius Audens
> >
> > Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
> >
>
> Any friend of Marcus Minucius Audens can consider
> himself a friend of
> mine! Salvete, amice!
>
> Rufus Iulius Palaeologus
>
>

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Acting Praefectus for France, Sodalitatis Egressus

Terrarum dea gentiumque, Roma
Cui par est nihil et nihil secundum.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	AW: Re: [Nova-Roma] Flavius Aetius
From:	<3s@hsk-net.de>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:47:20 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete,

afaik, the date of birth of Aetius was around 390 CEin Durostorum (near modern Silistra). Even the Encyclopedia Britannica sets no date of birth, so the exact date is not recorded (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?idxref=142039).

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Censor

-- Original Nachricht--
Von: Craig Stevenson <gaiussentius@yahoo.com.au>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Senden: 17.06.2002
Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Flavius Aetius

Salve,

I get the feeling that Aetius was born probably about
the same time as Gaiseric, as he was sent to the Goths
around 402AD as a hostage, and he was claimed to have
been a youth then. Anyone have any firmer dates or
deductions than this?

Vale bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

--- qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
In a message dated 6/15/02 5:06:49 PM Pacific Daylight
Time, 
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
writes: 
 
 
> A popular account of the life of Flavius Aetius
can be found in MEDIEVAL 
> WARLORDS by Tim Newark 
 
I have this scanned for Adobe. 
 
Q. Fabius Maximus 
 
 
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed] 
 
</tt>

 
<tt>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com 
 
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Master James McArthur
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:52:55 +0200

Sextus Apollonius Scipio wrote:
> a warm welcome to James McArthur.
> BTW, what is the SCA? (excuse my ignorance...)

Salve, Sexte Apolloni Scipio.

Society for/of Creative Anachronism, i.e. people who try to bring the
past alive in different ways, sometimes from dressing like they did in
the past, sometimes cooking food like they did in the past, sometimes
just studying to better know how things worked in the past. I'm not a
member, so I might be mistaken...but there are some of them even here in
the remote corners of Sweden. Here, for instance, they train/study
medieval ways of fighting, while wearing heavy protection constructed to
resemble armour from those days. It looks fun, but tends to be a bit
noisy, so I'll steer clear until further notice. :)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Master James McArthur
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:18:27 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,

thank you for your explanation.

Vale.

--- Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net> wrote:
> Sextus Apollonius Scipio wrote:
> > a warm welcome to James McArthur.
> > BTW, what is the SCA? (excuse my ignorance...)
>
> Salve, Sexte Apolloni Scipio.
>
> Society for/of Creative Anachronism, i.e. people who
> try to bring the
> past alive in different ways, sometimes from
> dressing like they did in
> the past, sometimes cooking food like they did in
> the past, sometimes
> just studying to better know how things worked in
> the past. I'm not a
> member, so I might be mistaken...but there are some
> of them even here in
> the remote corners of Sweden. Here, for instance,
> they train/study
> medieval ways of fighting, while wearing heavy
> protection constructed to
> resemble armour from those days. It looks fun, but
> tends to be a bit
> noisy, so I'll steer clear until further notice. :)
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Acting Praefectus for France, Sodalitatis Egressus

Terrarum dea gentiumque, Roma
Cui par est nihil et nihil secundum.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] On my non-exemption
From:	"mcserapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:58:21 -0000

AVETE OMNES ET AVE SENATOR QVINTE FABI MAXIME

I didn't reach the 2/3rds votes of the Senate in favour of my
exemption, even though the majority cast a "yes" vote.
I am sad for not having the opportunity of running for the office
of Quaestor. However, as I am still doing now, I will offer my
collaboration to Aedilis Plebis Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix and I
will maintain my interest in financial matters, and if anybody want
it, I will be happy of offering him/her too my collaboration.

As I said in one of my previous messages, I haven't the least
intention of criticizing Senate's decision about this issue.On the
contrary, I thank all those who cast a "yes" vote for my exemption
and, in general, all those who considered my case to express their
choice, regardless their final decision.

However, I must tell that I didn't understand so much the comment
that Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus added to his "no" vote: "The Law
is the Law!"
Honourable Senator, I agree with this sentence, and I must tell you
that I am not criticizing you vote, but rather your explanation.
I would have never done anything illegal and, if you will excuse me
saying so, the Law states:

"An exemption to this law may be granted to a person by the approval
of both censors and a senatus consultum approved by a two thirds
majority vote. Such an exemption must be sought prior to the official
start of the election in question, and must be granted in order to
participate as a formal candidate in the election process. A failure
to act on the question of an exemption shall not constitute a tacit
approval of the exemption." (Lex Vedia de Magistratum Aetate,
paragraph VI)

Being 21 years old is quite a good assurance about one's honesty and
reliability. But you will agree with me if I say that people are not
equal, and, as one could be a bad magistrate at the age of 22,
another one could be a good magistrate at the age of 20.
To my way of thinking, this is the spirit of the Lex de Magistratum
Aetate, allowing the Senate to judge whether a person is mature
enough for such a responsability.
So why did you write "the Law is the Law", if I exactly did what the
Law allowed me to do?

BENE VALETE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Legatus Externis Rebus - Provincia Italia
Dominus Praefectus - Sodalitas Egressus
-------------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Gens Constantinia: http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/constantinia-
en.html


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] E-mail adress change
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:17:40 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes,

please note that my new E-mail adress will be:

scipio_apollonius@fr-novaroma.com

Thank you for your time.

Respectfully,

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Acting Praefectus for France, Sodalitatis Egressus

Terrarum dea gentiumque, Roma
Cui par est nihil et nihil secundum.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia Senatoria
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@telia.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:19:57 +0200

Salve Amice!

I have been a Senator for a very short time, but I must tell You that
as far as I have seen the debates at the Senate floor are lively and
inspiring. The Senate seem to be just that responsible body of
experienced advisors that I think Nova Roma need.

But, yes there are two Senators that not seem to have done anything
for at least a couple of years (they were appointed by the Dictator
Vedius, not any Censor as far as I understand). Sadly enough they are
our youngest Senators, as I think that there is some good in having a
few unexperienced but devoted and intelligent Senators. Even though
the discussion in the Senate about removing Senators was about them,
they have never bothered or maybe haven't been able to activate
themselves even in that debate. When I was new I was very unsure
about how to handle this issue, but time has proven, at least to me,
that these two citizens doesn't seem to belong in the Senate, at
least not now. I have to admit that the Censors seem to have been
right, at least in principle, when they wanted to legally remove
these two Senators, maybe they could have handled it with a bit more
"consideration" though.

I agree with You that there is nothing wrong in removing Senators who
don't do *anything whatsoever*. But the overwhelming majority of the
Senators seem to be very active in the Senate, so to talk about "a
battle over corpses and cadavers" doesn't really seem fair.

Still there are citizens and have always been citizens who chose to
prioritize a certain period of the Republic. Sometimes because of
historical considerations and sometimes out of modern Nova Roma
political reasons. I see no wrong in this, but when some use
historical facts just to further their own modern political agenda,
then I get sick and tired. The project of Nova Roma is a very
_serious_ project and I for one will sit down and study our
forefathers and try to learn by their mistakes and successes. Thereby
I hope to find one or more possible solutions to our modern Nova Roma
"problems".

As You know I hope to see You back in politics in Nova Roma, You are
one of the most promising and capable young citizens in Nova Roma and
I am sure that we need You, as I also am sure that Nova Roma bears
the future within itself. I guess that You don't agree with me, but I
still hope that the history will prove me to be right! ;-)

> > Right, the Senate not the Main List under public scrutiny. The removal
>> of a Senator is something that should be handled in public where our
>> citizens can see exactly why it is being done. Instead all debate
>> occurred in a list where 99% of our citizens were unable to see the near
>> chaos it caused, until Flavius Vedius breached Senatorial
>> Confidentiality. This is entirely wrong and I request our Tribunes to
>> draft an Open Governmental Act, in order to prevent our magistrates from
>> acting in secret especially when it comes to the removal of Board
>> members who have a direct say in the policies of Nova Roma!
>
>MOS: Especially if they have nothing to say at all. I recall being
>acquainted with some (ex-)Senatores here who spoke of "zombie Senatores" who
>did nothing at all. I wonder what is so wrong in removing members of a BOD
>who don't do *anything whatsoever*. What is this? A battle over corpses and
>cadavres?

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor of Thule
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an official opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Leges missing
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:37:20 -0300 (ART)

Salve omnes quirites,

I was in the Tabularium doing a study on our leges and those are missing and have a broken link:

Lex Cornelia de Linguis Publicis 27 Feb 2755Lex Cornelia Iunia de Temporum Defintone Magistratuum 27 Feb 2755Lex Octavia de Senatoribus 27 Feb 2755

Please, I need the text of them. On these times of lex discution, we need to study them carefully. It's URGENT

Thanks,

L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae

Verdades vou dizer, fic��o lhes chames, Se os numes aos mortais n�o cr�s vis�veis!

Um deus referve em n�s, assomos de estro Baixam da et�rea mente � mente humana,

Quem, quem pode vedar-me o ver deidades, Sendo eu vate, eu cantor dos sacrif�cios?

Ov�dio, Faustus, poema VI

---------------------------------
Copa 2002
Yahoo! - Patrocinador oficial da Copa do Mundo da FIFA 2002

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] LUDI APOLLINARES !!!
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:30:58 +0100 (BST)

Salvete!

In three weeks, on July 6, the Ludi Apollinares will
begin, for the first time in Nova Roma.

These Ludi are organised by:

Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix � aedilis plebes
Manius Constantinus Serapio
Ianus Minicius Sparsus
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo � praetrix
Titus Labienus Fortunatus � praetor

I am proud to announce some wonderful events /
contests for this year�s Ludi Apollinares:

Literary contest � in honour of Apollo and the Muses!
Venationes � pick your fighter and battle against the
beasts!
Rhetorics contest � show us your eloquence!

Separate emails about each of these contests will be
sent to this list, and all information is also
available on our website:

http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/aediliscicatrix.html

We hope to see many participants in these Ludi!

Compete and see who is the best!!

ENJOY THE LUDI APOLLINARES!!!

Valete bene

=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Aedilis Plebis
Coryphaeus Sodalitatis Musarum
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
civis Novae Romae

***HORUM OMNIUM FORTISSIME SUNT BELGAE***

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Literary contest (Ludi Apollinares)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:37:47 +0100 (BST)

Salvete!

During the Ludi Apollinares (July 6-13) different
contests will be held (see our website, the address is
at the bottom of this mail).

One of them is a literary contest, where Nova Romans
may compete by writing a text, prose, poetry or drama,
about a Roman-related subject (ancient and Nova Roma).

Here are the rules of this contest:

LITERARY CONTEST

1) This literary contest is organized by aedilis
plebis Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix, with the support
of his two assistents and the praetores. The contest
is open to all citizens of Nova Roma. To participate,
one has to write a text (drama, poetry or prose) about
a Roman subject (this covers a very wide range of
possible subjects!).

2) Each participant can participate with just one
work. The contributed work must be in English, with a
maximum of 5 pages (standard A4 format). MS Word
format is preferred.

3) The deadline to send your work is July 5, 2002
(2755 AUC), by e-mail to Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
(consulromanus@yahoo.com), and in the subject line
"LC". Don�t forget to include your Nova Roma name and
email address!

4) The texts will judged by a jury (from July 6-11)
following this table of judgement:
- language style (linguistic qualities) (10 points)
- content (Roman references) (10 points)
- lay-out of the work (5 points)
- artistic value (very general) (5 points)

5) The jury will be composed as follows:
- Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix, aedilis plebis
- Manius Constantinus Serapio,
- Titus Labienus Fortunatus, praetor
- Pompeia Cornelia Strabo, praetrix
- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, aedilis curulis

6) The participating texts will appear on the Ludi
website. The participants thus grant the copyrights of
their text to the organization accepting this
regulation. This Regulation is accepted by taking part
in the contest.

7) The winner shall be announced on the Main List and
on the website on July 13. He/She will receive a prize
from praetrix Pompeia Cornelia Strabo.

Information:
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/aediliscicatrix.html
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix: consulromanus@yahoo.com

I really hope to see many participants in this
contest!!

Valete bene

=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Aedilis Plebis
Coryphaeus Sodalitatis Musarum
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
civis Novae Romae

***HORUM OMNIUM FORTISSIME SUNT BELGAE***

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] LVDI APOLLINARES - VENATIONES
From:	"mcserapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:13:19 -0000

Citizens of Nova Roma,

it is with most pleasure that, after the official message by the
Aedilis Plebis Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix, I, as organizer of this
part of the Ludi Apollinares, invite you to take part to the first
Venationes of Nova Roma!

Pick your fighter and make him/her battle in the arena against the
beasts!

Visit the web site of the Ludi Apollinares at
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/aediliscicatrix.html
Enter the Venationes section and read the regulation.
Here you will find out that to take part to the Venationes you have
to join the Venationes list (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/venationes ) and send there a message
whose subject shall be: "JOIN-[your roman name]"

As you join the Venationes Programme, you will be considered as
possessing 10,000 Sestertii.
In the Forum Boarium you will find a number of Venatores (fighters)
with different features and... prices!
You have to choose a Venator and the Ludus (gymnasium) you want
he/she trains in (there are 4 Ludi with, again, different
characteristics and costs). To do it, send to the Venationes list a
message whose subject shall be: "BUY-[name of the venator]-[your
roman name]".
Be careful! If the name of a Venator already appears in a previous
subject, it means that he/she has already been bought by somebody
else!
Be quick! Only the first 24 "buyers" will see their Venatores
fighting, so start now!

They will obviously combat against those animals our ancestors used
to: lions, tigers, panthers, bulls, elephants, buffalos,
hippopotamuses, bears, rhinoceroses...

The Ludi Apollinares, as you know, will go on for 8 days (august 6th-
13th). There will be 3 combats a day, and their results and
narrations will be gradually sent on the Main List.

If your Venator will win, the Ludus he trains in will award you with
an amount of Sestertii that you can spend to improve your Venator's
abilities or, in the future, to buy other Venatores.
However, your Venator could also give up or be killed. In this case
you obviously will not be awarded!

If you reach a certain amount of Sestertii, you could even have the
opportunity of offering a Venatio to Nova Roma yourself! For
instance, you could desire to celebrate a particular occasion, your
election/appointment, or you could want to support your candidacy for
an office, just like in ancient Rome.
You just have to collect enough Sestertii, and your desire will be
granted!

The Venationes can take place in the Circus Flaminius. If they take
place in the Circus Maximus they will be more important and sumptuous
(your award also will be greater). But the best Venationes, the most
magnificent, those for the most important events, will take place in
the wonderful Amphiteatrum Flavium, the Colosseum!
And it is in this very place that these first novaroman Venationes
have been organized. It also means that the winners will get very
considerable awards!!!

Cover your name with glory!
Show that your Venator is the best one thank to your abilities in
making the right choices!
Do it now! Visit our web site at
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/aediliscicatrix.html !!!

And the Gods be with you and your fighters...!

OPTIME VALETE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Legatus Externis Rebus - Provincia Italia
Dominus Praefectus - Sodalitas Egressus
------------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Gens Constantinia: http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/constantinia-en


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Leges missing
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:19:21 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Luci Armini,

I'll try to work on this tonight.

I've sent you a temporary URL where these leges might be found in their raw,
unformatted form.

Vale, Octavius.

>
> Salve omnes quirites,
>
> I was in the Tabularium doing a study on our leges and those are missing and have a broken link:
>
> Lex Cornelia de Linguis Publicis 27 Feb 2755Lex Cornelia Iunia de Temporum Defintone Magistratuum 27 Feb 2755Lex Octavia de Senatoribus 27 Feb 2755
>
> Please, I need the text of them. On these times of lex discution, we need to study them carefully. It's URGENT
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> L. Arminius Faustus
>
> Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae
>
> Verdades vou dizer, fic��o lhes chames, Se os numes aos mortais n�o cr�s vis�veis!
>
> Um deus referve em n�s, assomos de estro Baixam da et�rea mente � mente humana,
>
> Quem, quem pode vedar-me o ver deidades, Sendo eu vate, eu cantor dos sacrif�cios?
>
> Ov�dio, Faustus, poema VI
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Copa 2002
> Yahoo! - Patrocinador oficial da Copa do Mundo da FIFA 2002
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] On my non-exemption
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:28:10 EDT

In a message dated 6/18/02 1:58:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mcserapio@yahoo.it writes:
However, I must tell that I didn't understand so much the comment
that Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus added to his "no" vote: "The Law
is the Law!"
Honourable Senator, I agree with this sentence, and I must tell you
that I am not criticizing you vote, but rather your explanation.

Salvete.
Since you ask in the forum, I answer in the forum. As I prefaced in my
statement my decision had nothing to do with the candidate's qualifications,
which my fellow colleagues indicated were exemplary, but with our Roman law.
We set 21 for the majority as a benchmark, nothing more. A citizen at 21 in
most countries has entered manhood. I'm quite sure I could have been a Roman
magistrate at 20 and been a fine one, but I would not expect the Senate to
grant me an exception. Why? Because that law exists only to keep our
government from becoming too rigid. If we had only two Consular
Magistrates, and there were many citizens who wanted to stand for offices but
were under the majority then I'd vote for the exemption. It would be for
Rome's survival.
However, that was not the case. In this case we had enough candidates, and
people in office. There was no extant emergency, and the consulship is 50%
completed for this year. No exemption was needed. So I voted against to
maintain the status quo.
If one studies Roman law one is struck by the importance of precedent. To
establish a precedent is to "open a door" in overturning a lex. As Praetor
Urbanus last year, I argued successfully to retain a citizen's offices who
had resigned his offices, then changed his mind. Though he should have lost
his offices, I pointed out that another senior magistrate had once resigned
then changed his mind. And he kept his offices.
How could we act one way for one circumstance and another way for another?
One can easily do it if you do not have law. Law is one of the greatest
levelers of emotional experience. It replaces emotion. The citizen in
question was not well liked in Rome by that current government. Yet, that
became immaterial when held to the bright light of fairness. You can't have
it one way, then an other. The senior magistrates agreed, and the citizen's
offices reinstated.

I would have never done anything illegal and, if you will excuse me
saying so, the Law states:
"An exemption to this law may be granted to a person by the approval
of both censors and a senatus consultum approved by a two thirds
majority vote. Such an exemption must be sought prior to the official
start of the election in question, and must be granted in order to
participate as a formal candidate in the election process. A failure
to act on the question of an exemption shall not constitute a tacit
approval of the exemption." (Lex Vedia de Magistratum Aetate,
paragraph VI)

Of course you would do nothing illegal. I see you not as a Catilius or a
Saturanius.
But that wasn't the question. The question was should we overturn a lex, in
order to allow a promising candidate to stand for office. The facts told me
no. I weighed the effect of the exemption with the contributions of a gifted
magistrate. Since the year was half over, I saw more harm then good coming
out of it. That is what I saw, and that is why I made my decision.
Now if you quit on Rome because of the Senate's decision then you were poor
magistrate material in the first place. However, based on the reports I have
seen, I believe this setback will only make you more determined to enter the
cursus honorum.

Being 21 years old is quite a good assurance about one's honesty and
reliability. But you will agree with me if I say that people are not
equal, and, as one could be a bad magistrate at the age of 22,
another one could be a good magistrate at the age of 20.
To my way of thinking, this is the spirit of the Lex de Magistratum
Aetate, allowing the Senate to judge whether a person is mature
enough for such a responsibility.
So why did you write "the Law is the Law", if I exactly did what the
Law allowed me to do?

I believe I answered that question above, but I'll reiterate.
If we let you in, we have to let any other equally qualified candidate in
when he requests as well. Why? Because we established the precedent. Since
this is not an emergency situation, why establish a precedent when one is not
needed?
If you understand this and accept it, you will make a fine magistrate one
day.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On my non-exemption
From:	"mcserapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 18:26:13 -0000

AVE OPTIME SENATOR QVINTE FABI MAXIME

Sorry for writing on the Main List: I simply thought the results of
Senate's voting would have been published here.

I thank you very much for your exhaustive answer. As I said before,
I had no intention of criticizing your vote. I simply didn't
understand the explanation you gave for it. Now I understand it, even
though I don't agree with you on all the points.
Anyway, I see your reasons, as I see those af several other Senators.
I know that I have the opportunity of learning a lot from the way of
working of many people in Nova Roma.
Now, as you said, I just will be more determined to enter the Cursus
Honorum and, above all, to do a good job for my Res Publica.

Thank you again.

BENE VALE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Italiae
Dominus Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressus
-----------------------------------------
Ludi Apollinares: http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/aediliscicatrix
Provincia Italia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Gens Constantinia: http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/constantinia-en


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Chainquiz X
From:	"curiobritannicus" <Marcusaemiliusscaurus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:48:53 -0000

Salvete omnes,

It's time for the next question!

Many people were able to answer yesterday's question, but the first
was Raina Cornelia Aeternia, who knew that Cinna was Caesar's
father-in-law.

She asks: What is the name of the festival celebrated in the
Honor of Bacchus?

If you know the answer, please e-mail me at
marcusscribonius@hotmail.com with your answer, your Roman name, and
the question you would like to ask.

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Master James McArthur
From:	"Julilla" <curatrix@villaivlilla.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:01:01 -0000

Salve, James, and welcome from a fellow SCAdian!

<snipped> Here, for instance, they train/study
> medieval ways of fighting, while wearing heavy protection
constructed to resemble armour from those days. It looks fun, but
tends to be a bit noisy, so I'll steer clear until further notice. :)
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Tite, it IS noisy, but can be fun. I've been active recently to help
promote Nova Roma (there are a few die-hard Romans in the ranks) and
it's been enjoyable... except when the off-key bardics keep my son
from falling asleep! ;-)

Again, James, welcome!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| Rogatrix, MMDCCLV
Scriba, Nova Roma Curator Araneae
Curatrix Araneae,
America Boreoccidentalis
http://ambor.konoko.net


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Leges missing
From:	"Julilla" <curatrix@villaivlilla.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:05:10 -0000

Me paenitet, both to our consul Marcus Octavius Germanicus and to L.
Arminius Faustus. I usually make a point of adding new leges to the
tabularium directly upon passage.... except when I don't, and the two
leges cited are an example. Unfortate recent events make it
impossible to backtrack to their original posting, which further
points out the wisdom of ensuring the tabularium's updated regularly.

My apologies for the inconvenience and trouble!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| Rogatrix, MMDCCLV
Scriba, Nova Roma Curator Araneae
Curatrix Araneae,
America Boreoccidentalis
http://ambor.konoko.net


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Appointment of Legate Major for Regio Silvestris, AMS Province
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:36:48 -0500

Salvete Omnes,

It is with great pleasure I announce the appointment of Drusus Aeneas
Apollonius Cygnus as Legate Major for the Regio Silvestris(IA, MN, ND and SD)
of AMS Province.
Drusus Aeneas Apollonius Cygnus is the Paterfamilias of Gens Aenea
Apollonia and is also the Webmaster of the AMS Provincial Website.

Sextus Cornelius Cotta
Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legate Major Positions
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:44:41 -0500

Salve,

I still have two open Legate Major positions open and I am seeking serious
volunteers. I need a Legate Major for Regio Campus(KS, MO and NE) and Regio
Montanus(MT and WY). If you are interested contact me off list and tell me what
you can do for the Regio and the Province.

Vale,

Sextus Cornelius Cotta
Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma
--

Sextus Cornelius Cotta

--
Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma
AIM: Cotta Two
JabberIM: cotta@myjabber.net