| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Finally! I'm a new citizen! :-) |
| From: |
"magia_sententiosa" <golanv1@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 13 Jul 2002 22:25:55 -0000 |
|
Blessings, and Salvete!
I have just been approved as a new Citizen, and am fairly bursting
with excitement about it!
Whew! It took a while, but some things are well worth the wait.
I'm looking forward to learning a lot.
Oh, small intro...
I'm an artist/illustrator and professional musican living in
Seattle, WA. I also read Tarot for a living. I've always had a
great love for Minerva, Isis, Apollo, and Diana, since early
childhood, and am interested in becoming a priestess.
I'm also interested in learning more about the Roman virtues, as I
think they are precisely what modern-day society is missing.
Enough about me... I'm actually more interested in listening and
learning... :-)
Blessings,
Magia Sententiosa
AKA Raven
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings from a newbie.. |
| From: |
"magia_sententiosa" <golanv1@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 13 Jul 2002 22:32:10 -0000 |
|
Salvete, Cl. Sl. Davianus;
Well.. talk about a faux pas.. I've just realized that I intro'd
myself twice.
Never post without that first cup of coffee...
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Cl. Salix Davianus" <salixdavianus@t...>
wrote:
> Salue Magia Sententiosa,
> [a very curious name, certainly!]
Magia is in remembrance fo my Grandmother Maggie, who died last year.
Sententiosa is the name of the Gens (?) I picked, because of (I.)
Location, and (II.) patorn dieties.
>
> Where are you from Magia?
Seattle, Wa.
Speak about your interests, please.
Art, music, the Religio Romana, the Virtues, Cooking, and Latin.
There are a
> lot of things to learn at Nova Roma. For example, at the end of
August there
> are programmed some course in the Academia Thules (a kind of Nova
Roman
> University: http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/)
I saw that. I think I'm in love. :-)
>
> Another interesting thing, at least for non-USA cives is to
contact with the
> Provincia Mailing List of his own province. Really there are at
least one
> Provincial List more active and with more postings that this
Mailing List.
Found it , and joined.
> The are are also thematic mailing lists: such Latinitas (for the
discussion
> about Latin Language) and different Sodalitates such as S.
Athletica, S.
> Militariaum, S. Musarum ....>
> Cl. Sl. Davianus
> ================================
> Legatus Internis Rebus Hispaniae
> Tribunus Plebis Novae Romae
> Praceptor Linguae Latinae Academia Thules
Actually, I'm now on about a dozen lists...
Blessings,
Magia Sententiosa
|
| Subject: |
RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Dianas |
| From: |
"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:22:47 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
It should also be pointed out that in the majority of instances where
individuals were persecuted, imprisoned or executed for “witchcraft” ,
the trial and punishment was carried out by secular authorities, as
opposed to ecclesiastical ones (although admittedly it was often with
the tacit support of the church). The inquisition took place at an
earlier time than the “witchcraft” scare, and concerned itself primarily
with Heretical Christians and Jews, not “witches” or pagans.
Valete,
C. Minucius Hadrianus
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Hirtius Helveticus [mailto:hirtius75ch@yahoo.de]
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 2:32 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Dianas
Salve Vare, salvete omnes
--- MVariusPM@aol.com wrote:
<snip>
> Most certainly, a majority of the poor people
> burned by the Catholic Church
> and secular authorities in the Middle Ages were not
> "practitioners of the
> black arts." Most of them were simple folk who used
> traditional remedies and
> customs handed down to them for generations (i.e.,
> pouring milk on the field
> before sowing to ensure a fertile harvest, for
> example). I am sure there was
> probably a segment of the group who did practice a
> handed down form of
> paganism (the Church had a tough time stamping it
> out, particularly in
> Scandinavia, Friesia, and the Basque community).
I know, that this is not the place to discuss
non-related religious matters, so I keep it short. It
wasn't only the Catholic church that burned people for
being witches or whatever (I reckon, that the people
who burned others in the US weren't Catholics at all
f.ex.). Mainly, the Inquisition was concerned with
so-called heretics and the accusation of having
practised witchcraft was *just* an easy way of getting
rid of them. I - as a Roman Catholic myself - have to
point out, that also Martin Luther and other reformers
were very clear on that subject and condemnded
witchcraft, too. It is just simply not true, that only
the Catholic church burned so-called witches and other
*non-believers*.
Actually, the Catholic church did convert a lot of
*pagan traditions* into its system of believe and
therefore preserved them in some way. That's why it
was/still is so successful.
> Fortunately, some of those
> traditions even survived that terrible time [...]
Indeed. But that *terrible time* was mostly not the
middle ages. So-called witches were mostly burned in
early modern times. It is just another stereotype view
of the middle ages.
Valete bene,
=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
------------------------------
paterfamilias gentis Hirtiarum
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
------------------------------
Yahoo!/AIM/MSN: hirtius75ch
icq: 155762490
__________________________________________________________________
Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Möchten Sie mit einem Gruß antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Finally! I'm a new citizen! :-) |
| From: |
"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:28:53 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "magia_sententiosa" <golanv1@y...> wrote:
> Blessings, and Salvete!
>
> I have just been approved as a new Citizen, and am fairly bursting
> with excitement about it!
>
> Whew! It took a while, but some things are well worth the wait.
>
> I'm looking forward to learning a lot.
>
> Oh, small intro...
>
> I'm an artist/illustrator and professional musican living in
> Seattle, WA. I also read Tarot for a living. I've always had a
> great love for Minerva, Isis, Apollo, and Diana, since early
> childhood, and am interested in becoming a priestess.
>
> I'm also interested in learning more about the Roman virtues, as I
> think they are precisely what modern-day society is missing.
>
> Enough about me... I'm actually more interested in listening and
> learning... :-)
>
> Blessings,
>
> Magia Sententiosa
> AKA Raven
Salve Magiae,
Let me be one of the first to salute your decision to become a
citizen of Nova Roma. You will find Nova Roma very interactive and a
great experience as I, a new citizen am finding out. Many of the
citizens will go out of their way to help you. Congratulations on
winning your citizenship! We all hope to hear from you as time goes
on.
Yours Respectfully,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Alternate Histories Of Rome |
| From: |
lanius117@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 06:57:13 EDT |
|
Salvete,
For those interested in anceint Roman mystery novels, I recommend the
followng authors: Lindsey Davis, John Maddox Roberts, and Steven Saylor.
They are highly entertaining and the detail they provide of ancient Rome is
truly astounding. You feel as if you are there! For a lively account of
life in Caesar's legions try The Standard Bearer by A.C. Whitehead. This is
an older book, may be out of print, but is well worth reading.
Bene vale,
Gaius Lanius Falco
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings from a newbie.. |
| From: |
lanius117@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 07:00:41 EDT |
|
Salve, Magia Sententiosa
As an Acting Praefectus for Sodalitas Egressus in Nova Roma I welcome you!
If I can be of any assistance please contact me and I will try to answer your
queries.
Bene Vale,
Gaius Lanius Falco
Acting Praefectus Provincia Britannia, Sodalitas Egressus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Literary Contest Ludi Apollinares - RESULTS |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:19:23 +0100 (BST) |
|
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix aedilis plebis omnibus
S.P.D.
The literary contest has ended, four contributions
were submitted (they could be read in yesterday's
email). The jury has decided; here are the results:
On a fourth place, with 86 points out of 120 (72%):
"The Retreat Of Hannibal" by Lucius Arminius Faustus
On a thirth place, with 94 points out of 120 (78%):
"Minerva" by Patricia Cassia
On a second place, with 96 points out of 120 (80%):
"A Roman Pilgrimage to Delphi" by Lucia Valeria
Secunda Ianuaria
AND THE WINNER IS ... WITH 98 POINTS OUT OF 120 (82%):
"THE VANDALS AND THE WESTERN ROMAN EMPIRE TO 427"
written by Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Many congratulations to our winner! And also many
thanks to the other participants!
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura, you will hear from me
soon about your prize!
Valete bene
=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Aedilis Plebis
Coryphaeus Sodalitatis Musarum
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
civis Novae Romae
***HORUM OMNIUM FORTISSIME SUNT BELGAE***
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] CLOSING THE LUDI APOLLINARES |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:41:20 +0100 (BST) |
|
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix aedilis plebis omnibus
S.P.D.
Citizens of Nova Roma, the Ludi Apollinares have come
to an end, and I would like to take this opportunity
to thank all who were involved in these Ludi.
First of all, my newly created Administratio, where I
am accompanied by Manius Constantinus Serapio and my
quaestor Ianus Minucius Sparsus.
Special thanks to Manius Constantinus Serapio for his
wonderful Venationes and the organisation of the Ludi
website.
Also thanks to Pompeia Cornelia Strabo for her help in
the Venationes and with the prize of the literary
contest.
I thank the judges of the literary contest: praetor
Titus Labienus Fortunatus, praetrix Pompeia Cornelia
Strabo and Manius Constantinus Serapio (aedilis
curulis Caeso Fabius Quintilianus was also a member of
the jury, but due to his computer problems he was of
course unable to do this properly).
Many thanks also to all participants in the Venationes
and the Literary Contest!! We could not do without you
;-)
Many congratulations to the winners of the Venationes,
and the winner of the Literary Contest.
With these games we honoured Apollo and the Muses!
An extract from Ovidius (Metamorphoses I, 441-451):
“Hunc deus arquitenens, et numquam talibus armis
ante nisi in dammis capreisque fugacibus usus,
mille gravem telis exhausta paene pharetra
perdidit effuso per vulnera nigra veneno.
Neve operis famam posset delere vetustas,
instituit sacros celebri certamine ludos,
Pythia perdomitae serpentis nomine dictos.
Hic iuvenum quicumque manu pedibusve rotave
vicerat, aesculeae capiebat frondis honorem:
nondum laurus erat, longoque decentia crine
tempora cingebat de qualibet arbore Phoebus.”
“The God
that bears the bow (a weapon used till then
only to hunt the deer and agile goat)
destroyed the monster with a myriad darts,
and almost emptied all his quiver, till
envenomed gore oozed forth from livid wounds.
Lest in a dark oblivion time should hide
the fame of this achievement, sacred sports
he instituted, from the Python called
“The Pythian Games.” In these the happy youth
who proved victorious in the chariot race,
running and boxing, with an honoured crown
of oak leaves was enwreathed. The laurel then
was not created, wherefore Phoebus, bright
and godlike, beauteous with his flowing hair,
was wont to wreathe his brows with various leaves.”
Until the next Ludi!!!
Valete bene
=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Aedilis Plebis
Coryphaeus Sodalitatis Musarum
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
civis Novae Romae
***HORUM OMNIUM FORTISSIME SUNT BELGAE***
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] COMITIA PROVINCIAE ITALIAE - deadline |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:35:48 +0200 |
|
Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.
I remember to the citizens of the Provincia Italia that tomorrow, July 15,
2002, is the last day of the COMITIA PROVINCIAE ITALIAE about the election
of the provincial symbolorum.
So, hurry up to vote!
You can do it at http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Italia/ (only for
members) in the section "Polls" or sending an e-mail to me
[sacro_barese_impero@libero.it].
The proposals are the following:
SYMBOL: http://italia.novaroma.org/logos.htm
HYMNE: http://italia.novaroma.org/inno.htm
GODS: http://italia.novaroma.org/gods.htm
Hurry up!
P.S.: Only the citizens of Provincia Italia can vote.
Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Dianas |
| From: |
Diana Aventina <diana_aventina@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 07:59:06 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve Caius Julius Claudianus,
I agree with you 100%.
I will keep this quick because I am wondering if
maybe this entire conversation is off-topic and I
don't want to get into trouble with the list
moderators :-)
I am one of the main contact people for Paganism
in Europe, so I do speak from experience...Out of
the 600 or 700 Wiccans that I personally know,
there are many many sincere well versed Wiccans
(no pointy hat, dyed black hair or Gothic
clothes). But each week for the last 5 years, I
receive at least 10 emails per week from young
people who see US tv shows and movies and then
want to do spells & that is why I made the
comments that I did. Those kids don't know and
don't care who Gerald Gardner was or whether or
not Wicca came from OTO or Charles Leland. I
always hope that these kids will grow into
religion in a more serious manner.
On the positive side, if their religion works for
them, that's great!
No offence was intended to anyone. If so, my
apologies.
Diana
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] 6 month period |
| From: |
Diana Aventina <diana_aventina@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:14:14 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Hi Lucius Arminius Faustus,
> My angry friend,
Me angry? I always have a big
toothpaste-commercial smile on my face :-)) I
wasn't at all angry, it must be my writing :-(((
> the boring six months is the
> cooking period of six month before you get
> acess to the magistracies.
Thanks for the ifo. For a minute there, I thought
that I shouldn't email to the list for 6 months.
Thanks again!
Diana
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Latin program |
| From: |
"Am. Equitius Germanicus" <tyrael_equitius@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:43:15 -0500 |
|
Omnibus salutem multam dicit Am. Equitius Germanicus
I found a usefull program for quizing a person in their latin. It test you on conjugating, declining, a little vocab(a bit faulty), and then an all out quiz. Try it out at... http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~hasenfra/wlatin.html .
DI VOS INCOLVMES CVSTODIANT
CIVIS NOVAE ROMAE
GENTILIS PATRICIAE GENTIS EQVITIAE
PRAEFECTVS ET SCRIBA MAIOR TERRITORIORVM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Marcronation problem |
| From: |
Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:39:52 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete Omnes,
I am taken in hostage by my boss...
I will not be able to be very active for the next two
weeks.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Valete,
=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Provinciae Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Acting Praefectus for France
Terrarum dea gentiumque, Roma
Cui par est nihil et nihil secundum.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] apollonia acta |
| From: |
Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:00:39 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete Omnes,
you can read the last roman archoelogy news at
http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/
Valete,
=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Provinciae Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Acting Praefectus for France
Terrarum dea gentiumque, Roma
Cui par est nihil et nihil secundum.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] R: Help! Looking for SPQR flag |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:23:19 +0200 |
|
Franciscus Apulus Caesar Julilla Sempronia Magna et Lynn Anslow S.P.D.
> May I recommend the "Macellum" section of our web site,
> www.novaroma.org?
> There you will find a very reasonably-priced Roman vexillum or flag,
> available for sale from M. Cassius Julianus. These have, I believe,
> grommets on the top of the flag (they are meant to hang vertically,
> not horizontally) but you could easily have a grommet inserted in the
> left-hand corner to fly from a conventional flag pole.
> Hope this helps you, but it may be a very tight turnaround to obtain
> them by next weekend. But it's worth asking!
I. very sorry, but I have several problems to buy our national flag.
I have contacted Illustrus M. Cassius Julianus a lot of times asking
informations about how buy it. But it seems I'm not so lucky and from the
start of June I'm waiting for a complete answer.
Simply I would like to know how many flags I can buy (I need 4-5 flags) and
how can I pay their without credit card.
I hope Illustrus M. Cassius Julianus is reading my e-mail and give me an
answer.
Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Alternate Histories Of Rome |
| From: |
"James LaSalle, Esq." <jlasalle@kc.rr.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:15:29 -0500 |
|
I thought Hannibal's Children was a great book. Without giving too much away, I thought the submarines were a little hokey. Plus, with the metal casting technology available at the time, I think they could have made them out of metal, not wood. Just a thought.
----- Original Message -----
From: lanius117@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Alternate Histories Of Rome
Salvete,
For those interested in anceint Roman mystery novels, I recommend the
followng authors: Lindsey Davis, John Maddox Roberts, and Steven Saylor.
They are highly entertaining and the detail they provide of ancient Rome is
truly astounding. You feel as if you are there! For a lively account of
life in Caesar's legions try The Standard Bearer by A.C. Whitehead. This is
an older book, may be out of print, but is well worth reading.
Bene vale,
Gaius Lanius Falco
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Dianas |
| From: |
MVariusPM@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:49:36 EDT |
|
Salve,
I thought a couple of points in my previous post might need clarification.
As I wrote earlier: " 'wicca' comes from the Old English word for 'witch.'
(according to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary). [snip] In Anglo Saxon, '
wic' meant 'dwelling' (according to Bright's Anglo Saxon Reader) and a
"wicca" was a "woman's house" (sans men, presumably). In Old High German
'wih' (pronounced like 'wic') meant 'holy.' " Old English was not the same
language as Anglo Saxon. Reference: The Cambridge Encyclopedia of The English
Language, by David Crystal.
Gardner was involved with a pre-existing group of people who were already
using rituals and alternative forms of worship (i.e., "alternative" to the
then accepted practice of Christianity in England where the State religion
was/is Christianity and other religious practices were still having
difficulty. Note: "Witchcraft" was still illegal at the time of Gardner's
involvement). He was also a member of a group that included Aleister Crowley.
It wasn't until 1949 - 1951 that Gardner was able to publish books based on
his experiences. A brief timeline can be found at: <A HREF="http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/g/gardner_gerald_b.html">Gardner, Gerald B.</A>
Gardner did not actually "invent" the practices he wrote about. He was
documenting the existing practices of the groups he was involved in. He did
other research and published his interpretation of the historical precedents
leading to the use of the rituals and practices in question.
Marija Gimbutas (now deceased) was a professor emeritus of European
archeology at UCLA. She published over twenty books, during her career and
enjoyed a great deal of respect within her field. It is true that some of her
early papers sparked controversy. She was one of the first in her field to
seriously pursue evidence of matriarchal influence during historic and
prehistoric times. Her theories were in direct conflict with those of a male
dominated hunter/warrior society upon which all historic societies are based.
There are some in the anthro-archeology field who still do not accept any
variation on the "subjugated females to males" theories and do not even read
her work. However, the evidence speaks for itself and has become an integral
part of ongoing field research all over the world. For example: <A HREF="http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/icemaidentran.shtml">BBC -
Horizon</A>, <A HREF="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2517siberian.html">NOVA Online | Transcripts | Ice Mummies: Siberian Ice Maiden</A> and <A HREF="http://emuseum.mankato.msus.edu/information/biography/pqrst/polosmak_natalia.html">
Natalia Polosmak</A>.
There is certainly no argument that secular authorities tried and condemed
people for ecclesiastical crimes during the Middle Ages (the high Middle Ages
being approximately 1100 to 1600 C.E.). And, there is certainly no argument
that "heresy" was the primary concern of the Inquisition (the actual ongoing
tribunal which was convened as required). The scope of the subject is far too
complex to go into in detail. For that reason, I used something of a
generalization regarding "witchcraft" persecutions. However, there is plenty
of trial documents that have survived from the period to give a clear view of
the manner in which "witches" were treated. Germany was an area of particular
violence regarding men and women accussed of the "crime." France had a good
share and Scotland was a rather nasty location to find oneself in, if you
were under suspicion, too. No "witches" were ever burned in America. The
victims of the Salem accusations were hanged.
It is certainly true that Protestants weren't any better at safeguarding
people from being accussed of having belief systems that did not conform to
the norm. However, the dominant power in Europe during the largest section of
persecution (approximately 1230 to 1475 C.E.) was the Catholic Church. The
infamous "Malleus Maleficarum" was written in 1486, in response to the
growing concern that "witchhunting" was not being conducted properly and
"criminals" were slipping through the fingers of the authorities (i.e. the
Inquisitor General's office, or the Jesuits who were sitting on the
ecclesiastical tribunals). Sometimes the church officials turned over the
prisoners to the secular authorities for "questioning" (i.e. torture),
sometimes they turned them over to the secular authorities for carrying out
of the sentencing. This practice changed with time and location.
There were many "sects" persecuted by the church for variant beliefs that
did not have anything to do with "witchcraft," per se, (i.e. the Cathars, for
example) that got that label "tacked on" to expidite a guilty verdict and a
death sentence. I did not mean to imply that all the victims of the
Inquisition and subsequent persecutions were described as "witches" that is
simply not the case. There were a substantial portion of them who were
labeled as such and met very unpleasant ends for little more than trying to
make herbal remedies before the advent of modern medicine. How the birth,
growth and monopoly of modern medicine played into the persecution of
midwives and herbalists is a whole other subject that I won't get into here.
Suffice to say, the medical profession has a dark side to its history as
well.
For reference material and more detailed background on the subject I offer
the following:
"Witches & Neighbors," by Robin Briggs
"Medieval Heresy," by Malcolm Lambert
"The Inquisition," by Edward Burman
"The Inquisition of the Middle Ages," by Henry Charles Le
"The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology," by Rossell Hope Robbins
"The History of Torture," by Daniel P. Mannix
and "The Medieval Underworld," by Andrew McCall
Certainly, these books only scratch the surface of the subject and do not
include all the information available. I do have other references, if anyone
is interested. I also hope no one is offended by the opinions in this post or
the subject matter topic. I certainly was not offended by anyone's alternate
opinions. I just thought a little clarification was in order, since there
seemed to be some misunderstanding about a few points.
Valate,
M. Varius
In a message dated 7/13/02 3:49:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
shaun@iseum.org.uk writes:
> Salve,
>
> No offence intended to anybody, but I have to offer an alternative
> view on this in the interest of history. There is no word in Anglo
> Saxon which is the root of "witch" (Check any Anglo Saxon
> dictionary). There was no such thing as Wicca prior to it's invention
> by Gerald Gardner, it is entirely a modern invention, (with no
> disrespect to it intended on account of that). The theories of Marija
> Gimbutas and Rhiann Eisler regarding prehistoric matriachal
> civilisations have been thoroughly discredited by the academic
> community. Most of the victims of the Inquisitions were Jews and
> heretical Christian sects.
>
> Vale
>
> C.Iulius Claudianus
>
In a message dated 7/13/02 1:34:20 AM Central Daylight Time,
hirtius75ch@yahoo.de writes:
> I know, that this is not the place to discuss
> non-related religious matters, so I keep it short. It
> wasn't only the Catholic church that burned people for
> being witches or whatever (I reckon, that the people
> who burned others in the US weren't Catholics at all
> f.ex.). Mainly, the Inquisition was concerned with
> so-called heretics and the accusation of having
> practised witchcraft was *just* an easy way of getting
> rid of them. I - as a Roman Catholic myself - have to
> point out, that also Martin Luther and other reformers
> were very clear on that subject and condemnded
> witchcraft, too. It is just simply not true, that only
> the Catholic church burned so-called witches and other
> *non-believers*.
> Actually, the Catholic church did convert a lot of
> *pagan traditions* into its system of believe and
> therefore preserved them in some way. That's why it
> was/still is so successful.
>
> > Fortunately, some of those
> > traditions even survived that terrible time [...]
>
> Indeed. But that *terrible time* was mostly not the
> middle ages. So-called witches were mostly burned in
> early modern times. It is just another stereotype view
> of the middle ages.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: R: Help! Looking for SPQR flag |
| From: |
"queenphoebe2001" <LAnslow@aol.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:17:41 -0000 |
|
I have also attempted to contact M. Cassius Julianus, with a similar
lack of response. This is why I decided to post my question to the
entire community.
Thank you for your advice. The vexillum looks ideal and I would very
much like to obtain 2 or 3 of them.
- Lynn
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar Julilla Sempronia Magna et Lynn Anslow
S.P.D.
>
> > May I recommend the "Macellum" section of our web site,
> > www.novaroma.org?
> > There you will find a very reasonably-priced Roman vexillum or
flag, available for sale from M. Cassius Julianus. These have, I
believe, grommets on the top of the flag (they are meant to hang
vertically,not horizontally) but you could easily have a grommet
inserted in the left-hand corner to fly from a conventional flag pole.
> > Hope this helps you, but it may be a very tight turnaround to
obtain them by next weekend. But it's worth asking!
>
> I. very sorry, but I have several problems to buy our national flag.
> I have contacted Illustrus M. Cassius Julianus a lot of times asking
> informations about how buy it. But it seems I'm not so lucky and
from the
> start of June I'm waiting for a complete answer.
> Simply I would like to know how many flags I can buy (I need 4-5
flags) and how can I pay their without credit card.
>
> I hope Illustrus M. Cassius Julianus is reading my e-mail and give
me an answer.
>
> Valete
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] R: Help! Looking for SPQR flag |
| From: |
"paulyates" <pyates@avgvstvs15.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:48:00 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
I too have requested information on the national flag but have yet received no response to my e-mail to M.Cassius Julianus.
Do any citizens know if the esteemed gentleman is receiving his mail ?
Valete
Gaius Velius Octavianus
----- Original Message -----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 6:23 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] R: Help! Looking for SPQR flag
Franciscus Apulus Caesar Julilla Sempronia Magna et Lynn Anslow S.P.D.
> May I recommend the "Macellum" section of our web site,
> www.novaroma.org?
> There you will find a very reasonably-priced Roman vexillum or flag,
> available for sale from M. Cassius Julianus. These have, I believe,
> grommets on the top of the flag (they are meant to hang vertically,
> not horizontally) but you could easily have a grommet inserted in the
> left-hand corner to fly from a conventional flag pole.
> Hope this helps you, but it may be a very tight turnaround to obtain
> them by next weekend. But it's worth asking!
I. very sorry, but I have several problems to buy our national flag.
I have contacted Illustrus M. Cassius Julianus a lot of times asking
informations about how buy it. But it seems I'm not so lucky and from the
start of June I'm waiting for a complete answer.
Simply I would like to know how many flags I can buy (I need 4-5 flags) and
how can I pay their without credit card.
I hope Illustrus M. Cassius Julianus is reading my e-mail and give me an
answer.
Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Dianas |
| From: |
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Hirtius=20Helveticus?=" <hirtius75ch@yahoo.de> |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:23:39 +0200 (CEST) |
|
Salve Vare, salvete quirites
--- MVariusPM@aol.com wrote:
<snip>
> There is certainly no argument that secular
> authorities tried and condemed
> people for ecclesiastical crimes during the Middle
> Ages (the high Middle Ages
> being approximately 1100 to 1600 C.E.). And, there
> is certainly no argument
> that "heresy" was the primary concern of the
> Inquisition
My point, exactly. Well, since this is not my main
subject (I studied mainly and am writing my doctoral
thesis about european social and economic history from
1600 to 1900) and my knowledge on this subject is
fairly basic, I just wanted to express some concerns
about your first posting.
<snip>
> were under suspicion, too. No "witches" were ever
> burned in America. The
> victims of the Salem accusations were hanged.
Sorry, my fault. I should have known that.
<snip>
> simply not the case. There were a substantial
> portion of them who were
> labeled as such and met very unpleasant ends for
> little more than trying to
> make herbal remedies before the advent of modern
> medicine.
Well, casting spells, false treatement of patients
etc. was/is considered a crime in many cultures and
religions. But sadly, it had been worst during the
period we are talking about here.
Also the Romans had laws against *witchcraft* etc.:
The Lex duodecim tabularum mentions 'malum carmen
invantare' in tabula VIII f.ex. (damaging or stealing
crops through spells).
Also roman criminal law has several articles against
magic etc., some with capital punishement (s. Liebs,
Detlef: Strafprozesse wegen Zauberei. Magie und
politisches Kalkül in der römischen Geschichte, in:
Große Prozesse der römischen Antike, hg. v. Ulrich
Manthe u. Jürgen von Ungern-Sternberg, München 1997,
146-158. 210-213.).
Several legal measures were also taken during the time
against soothsayers and other people (nowadays, some
would probably call them *psychic*) in Rome.
What I want to say by this is, that persecution of
witchcraft is _neither_ only a christian _nor_ a
Catholic habit/tradition - but sadly we/they were
*damn good at it*. That's all.
<snip>
> is interested. I also hope no one is offended by the
> opinions in this post or
> the subject matter topic. I certainly was not
> offended by anyone's alternate
> opinions.
No offence taken nor was my previous posting meant to
be offensive.
Valete bene,
=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
------------------------------
paterfamilias gentis Hirtiarum
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
------------------------------
Yahoo!/AIM/MSN: hirtius75ch
icq: 155762490
__________________________________________________________________
Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Möchten Sie mit einem Gruß antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] R: Help! Looking for SPQR flag |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:14:37 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve Gai Veli,
> I too have requested information on the national flag but have yet
> received no response to my e-mail to M.Cassius Julianus.
>
> Do any citizens know if the esteemed gentleman is receiving his mail ?
He is, but has been very busy lately; his wife, Patricia Cassia, has
just left the hospital. Give him some more time, and you'll get
your flag.
Vale, Octavius
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator
|
