Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Alternate Histories Of Rome
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:56:59 -0700

On Sat, Jul 13, 2002 at 01:24:37AM -0000, miguelkelly15 wrote:
> Salvete Omnes et Sexti Corneli Cottae,
>
> Those alternate history novels can be fun to read. I can recommend a
> few more!
>
> 1) The Far Arena by Richard Ben Sapir - a story about finding a
> frozen Roman soldier in the far North and reviving him in modern times
>
> 2) Procurator by Kurt Mitchel - Pilate releases Jesus, Christianity
> fizzles out but the Roman Empire lasts 2000 years more; trouble with
> the Germanic barbarians reviving witchcraft and spiritualism which
> clashes with Roman technology.
>
> 3)The New Barbarians by Kurt Mitchel - Rome then expands its Empire
> into America and clashes with the growing Aztec Empire.
>
> 4)The Casca Series by Sgt. Saddler (who sang The Green Berets) -
> Casca is a Roman soldier who slaps Jesus' face in the passion and
> Jesus condems him to walk the earth for a few thousand years as a
> mercenary (something like highlander).
>
> 5)One more to mention that is not alternate history but shouldn't be
> ignored. Raptor by Gary Jennings - This is the story of a
> hermaphrodite who takes off from a monestary at the end of the 5th
> century and travels all over the Western and Eastern Roman Empire a
> year or two before Rome falls. Fascinating, 900 pages brilliantly
> written. The only warning for some is that Gary Jennings gets quite
> sexually and violently graphic in parts of the book but you can skim
> over that if necessary. He also wrote Aztec.

Also, take a look at David Drake's "Foreign Legions" (science fiction.)
I recently became acquainted with it, and it is... simply the greatest
triumph for Rome that can be imagined, and a highly logical outcome
given the basic premise. I don't want to spoil the story, and can't
think of anything to say that would not give it away - so I'll just say
that I recommend as an excellent read (I'm a fan of David Drake anyway.)

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Audentes fortuna iuvat.
Fortune favours the brave.
-- Vergil, "Aenis"


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: LUDI VENATORII: FINALE!!!!
From:	"artabrus" <piteas@inicia.es>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:55:07 -0000

> ASTACIUS VICTOR! On to more combats in the future!!
>
> Salix Galaicus!! Are those sestertii signs in your eyes, O civie?

Yeah, I love the sestertii!
Astacius has done a good work. I will pay him a wild night in the
Ludus ;-)

Salix Galaicus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Alternate Histories Of Rome
From:	"grizzlybear19602002" <larrythebear@askmamafreeman.com>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:00:36 -0000

Salve! Yes I agree Caius Minucius Scaevola, Those are some very
interesting books. I personally have read the Mitchel books but will
get the others as I can. Thanks for bringing up this topic.
Vale!
Larenicus Flavius Magus.

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Caius Minucius Scaevola
<pectus_roboreus1@y...> wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2002 at 01:24:37AM -0000, miguelkelly15 wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes et Sexti Corneli Cottae,
> >
> > Those alternate history novels can be fun to read. I can
recommend a
> > few more!
> >
> > 1) The Far Arena by Richard Ben Sapir - a story about finding a
> > frozen Roman soldier in the far North and reviving him in modern
times
> >
> > 2) Procurator by Kurt Mitchel - Pilate releases Jesus,
Christianity
> > fizzles out but the Roman Empire lasts 2000 years more; trouble
with
> > the Germanic barbarians reviving witchcraft and spiritualism
which
> > clashes with Roman technology.
> >
> > 3)The New Barbarians by Kurt Mitchel - Rome then expands its
Empire
> > into America and clashes with the growing Aztec Empire.
> >
> > 4)The Casca Series by Sgt. Saddler (who sang The Green Berets) -
> > Casca is a Roman soldier who slaps Jesus' face in the passion and
> > Jesus condems him to walk the earth for a few thousand years as a
> > mercenary (something like highlander).
> >
> > 5)One more to mention that is not alternate history but shouldn't
be
> > ignored. Raptor by Gary Jennings - This is the story of a
> > hermaphrodite who takes off from a monestary at the end of the
5th
> > century and travels all over the Western and Eastern Roman Empire
a
> > year or two before Rome falls. Fascinating, 900 pages brilliantly
> > written. The only warning for some is that Gary Jennings gets
quite
> > sexually and violently graphic in parts of the book but you can
skim
> > over that if necessary. He also wrote Aztec.
>
> Also, take a look at David Drake's "Foreign Legions" (science
fiction.)
> I recently became acquainted with it, and it is... simply the
greatest
> triumph for Rome that can be imagined, and a highly logical outcome
> given the basic premise. I don't want to spoil the story, and can't
> think of anything to say that would not give it away - so I'll just
say
> that I recommend as an excellent read (I'm a fan of David Drake
anyway.)
>
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-
> Audentes fortuna iuvat.
> Fortune favours the brave.
> -- Vergil, "Aenis"


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman chalices
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:15:40 -0000

Salvete omnes,
I was wondering if anyone knows where I could order some
Roman drinking chalices (replicas) or wine cups like you see being
used in the I Claudius and other Roman movies. I've been looking
around in china stores for years and never have come close to seeing
one.

Regards - Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nova Roma Freemasons?
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:46:50 -0000

Are there any Nova Romans out there who are members of a Masonic Lodge?
Please email me with your thoughts.

Tonight two representatives from the local blue lodge are coming to my
apartment to visit, since I am exploring the possibility of joining
the Masons.

Nerva


Subject:	Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] R: Help! Looking for SPQR flag
From:	<pyates@avgvstvs15.freeserve.co.uk>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 6:33:21 +0000

Salve
Thankyou for that information and I sincerely hope that all goes well with his wifes recovery
Vale
>
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
> Date: Sun 14/Jul/2002 23:14 GMT
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] R: Help! Looking for SPQR flag
>
>

_______________________________________________________________________
Freeserve AnyTime, only Ł13.99 per month with one month's FREE trial!
For more information visit http://www.freeserve.com/time/ or call free on 0800 970 8890


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Hello.
From:	"grizzlybear19602002" <larrythebear@askmamafreeman.com>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:50:30 -0000

Salve! everyone, I have recently joined Nova Roma. Just wish to say
hello, and that I'm very glad to be here. Have always been interested
in the glory and might of Roma. And I wish to learn how things are
done here, and also wish to participate as much as possible, in chats
and on-line discussions with you all. Well I must go now, Vale!
Laurenicus Falvius Magus.


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Dianas
From:	"Shaun" <shaun@iseum.org.uk>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:44:15 -0000

Salve Diana,

I won't go on at length either, for I fear the tribunes are looking at us
and muttering to the guards.
I've nothing against Wicca, if it works for people that's fine, I'm just a
little concerned about
modern "myths" being presented as factual accounts of history. It's much
the same problem that
I have with the Gallileans, some of them expect their mythical background to
be accepted as fact,
despite clear evidence to the contrary. Members of particular religions
sometimes mistake the
"truths" of the faith for historical truth, though hopefully the Wiccans
will not be quite so
fanatical as the Gallileans in enforcing their ideas ;)

Vale

C. Iulius Claudianus

<< I agree with you 100%.
I will keep this quick because I am wondering if
maybe this entire conversation is off-topic and I
don't want to get into trouble with the list
moderators :-)

<SNIP>

On the positive side, if their religion works for
them, that's great!
No offence was intended to anyone. If so, my
apologies.

Diana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Dianas
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:51:06 -0000

---

Salvete Omnes:

In my view, and from some measure of personal
experience: "Fundamentalism", "Fanatacism" transcends all religious
beliefs. There are those who are 'ideal' seekers and those who go by
the letter of the law, so to speak, while wondering why on earth
everyone else is not doing so too.

I have met 'fundamentalists' from Christian, Pagan, Wiccan, and
Islamic persuasions. I think we must tread carefully if we label any
one sect as being collectively fanatical...such is not always the
case. But this is my appraisal.

At any rate, you are quite correct in that we are veering off
topic...we are really no longer applying much of this discussion to
Ancient Rome or Nova Roma, and such discourses are best taken up in
private discussion.

One of the leading preachers said on television (although I am
hesistent to endorse telepreachers of any description or persuasion)
something which struck me as having a morsel of truth:

"There is no such thing as the perfect church (He used church) The
minute you join this perfect church, it becomes imperfect"

Without Prejudice,
P. Cornelia
List Moderator et Praetor

In Nova-Roma@y..., "Shaun" <shaun@i...> wrote:
> Salve Diana,
>
> I won't go on at length either, for I fear the tribunes are looking
at us
> and muttering to the guards.
> I've nothing against Wicca, if it works for people that's fine, I'm
just a
> little concerned about
> modern "myths" being presented as factual accounts of history.
It's much
> the same problem that
> I have with the Gallileans, some of them expect their mythical
background to
> be accepted as fact,
> despite clear evidence to the contrary. Members of particular
religions
> sometimes mistake the
> "truths" of the faith for historical truth, though hopefully the
Wiccans
> will not be quite so
> fanatical as the Gallileans in enforcing their ideas ;)
>
> Vale
>
> C. Iulius Claudianus
>
>
> << I agree with you 100%.
> I will keep this quick because I am wondering if
> maybe this entire conversation is off-topic and I
> don't want to get into trouble with the list
> moderators :-)
>
> <SNIP>
>
> On the positive side, if their religion works for
> them, that's great!
> No offence was intended to anyone. If so, my
> apologies.
>
> Diana
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] VENATIONES PRIZE GIVING!!!
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:57:07 -0300 (ART)

Salvete,

On his tray ther is only
one pouch! It means that it contains all 50,000 sestertii offered by
the Ludus Tauriscum! He stops in front of the one winner of this
gymnasium, Aquinca.
- Lucius Arminius Faustus is very lucky, and after the combat of
Aquinca, now owns S 50,500! (wow!)

Almight gods! I´m really a faustus vir!

What will I do with so many money? I´d buy grain and wheat to the people, but I may be accused to be a new Spurius Maelius?! I will build a shrine to the Victoria and Fortuna in my office of Scriba of Brasilia province. Well, I will remodel my office! Thanks to Cicatrix, Serapio and Pompeia, it was a very funny game!

Valete,

L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae

Verdades vou dizer, ficçăo lhes chames, Se os numes aos mortais năo cręs visíveis!

Um deus referve em nós, assomos de estro Baixam da etérea mente ŕ mente humana,

Quem, quem pode vedar-me o ver deidades, Sendo eu vate, eu cantor dos sacrifícios?

Ovídio, Faustus, poema VI

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Encontros - O lugar certo para encontrar a sua alma gęmea.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Roma Freemasons?
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:35:56 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@c...> wrote:
> Are there any Nova Romans out there who are members of a Masonic
Lodge?
> Please email me with your thoughts.
>
> Tonight two representatives from the local blue lodge are coming to
my
> apartment to visit, since I am exploring the possibility of joining
> the Masons.
>
> Nerva

Salve Nervae,

Good luck with your new endeavour with the Freemasons. I have a few
friends that belong to the organization. The only thing is that
Freemasonary was started more or less in the 1500's and would not
have anything in common with Rome. If you wish please write to my
email address at mjk@datanet.ab.ca and I would be happy to tell you
of my experience with them.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Re: Dianas
From:	Cinnabari <darkelf@ecentral.com>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:03:47 -0600

Salve:

>
> Oh, and "wicca" comes from the Old English word for "witch." It has been
>given the presentation that it means "wise one." In Anglo Saxon, "wic" meant
>"dwelling" and a "wicca" was a "woman's house" (sans men, presumably). In Old
>High German "wih" (pronounced like "wic") meant "holy." As with many words
>from old languages, the variation of meaning becomes somewhat difficult to
>discern from the modern viewpoint.
>

Wicca is a modern religion... however it might like to cast itself with
mytho-historical roots. There's no 'wicca' in Anglo-Saxon. Gardner
coined the word, however its definition has evolved/devolved over the
years since.

>
>
> Most certainly, a majority of the poor people burned by the Catholic Church
>and secular authorities in the Middle Ages were not "practitioners of the
>black arts." Most of them were simple folk who used traditional remedies and
>customs handed down to them for generations (i.e., pouring milk on the field
>before sowing to ensure a fertile harvest, for example).
>
I am not so sure. Medieval church records are exhaustive things. There
weren't nearly so many people burned as the propaganda machine would
have one believe. The secular courts were rougher on supposed witches
than ANY church court. The folk practices cited above were not enough
to get one harrassed for witchcraft, nor were beliefs in the
supernatural. Heresy could (Joan of Arc, anyone), as could just
offending a neighbor by being more lucky. This looks rather like Wiccan
press-release fare from Llewellyn.

Vale,

Cinnabari


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Two proposed leges for voting this month
From:	Matt Haase <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:20:51 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete Quirites,

Within the next few days, I intend to summon the Comitia Populi Tributa
and the Comitia Centuriata, two vote on two laws and one Rogator.
(We have three candidates for Rogator).

We still have no candidates for Curator Differium; interested persons
should contact the Consuls immediately. This position is as a
newsletter editor, so candidates should have publishing experience.

At the request of my colleague, I have added a third paragraph to
the proposed LEX SECUNDA OCTAVIA DE CENTURIATA that will explicitly
specify the proportions of the various classes. These proportions
are the same as they currently are, within 1%, thus leaving the
relative size of the classes unchanged.

LEX SECUNDA OCTAVIA DE CENTURIATA:

This Lex is hereby enacted to set the number of centuries as required
by Paragraph II.E.2 of the Constitution of Nova Roma, as amended
by the Lex Octavia de Centuriata. In the event that the amendment does
not pass, this lex shall be ineffective.

I. The number of centuries shall be determined by dividing the number
of Assidui citizens by eight, rounding down. This calculation shall take
place every time that a reallocation of centuries is performed by the
Censores. If this calculation results in a number greater than 193, then
there shall be only 193 centuries. If this calculation results in a
number less than 51, there shall be exactly 51 centuries.

II. The Censores may determine the number of centuries in each class
by edict, as previously established by the Lex Iunia Centuriata. If
the Censores choose not to do so, then the same proportions already
in effect from the previous allocation shall be adhered to as
closely as possible, in order to preserve the relative sizes of
the classes. For purposes of this calculation, the century
containing the Capite Censi shall be considered outside of
any class.

III. The relative sizes of each class shall be initially set
as follows:

Class I: Twenty-Nine percent of the Assidui centuries.
Class II: Twenty-Four percent of the Assidui centuries.
Class III: Twenty percent of the Assidui centuries.
Class IV: Sixteen percent of the Assidui centuries.
Class V: Eleven percent of the Assidui centuries, plus one
century reserved for the Capite Censi only.

The other proposal is the LEX OCTAVIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS:

The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby amended to include
the following:

Patresfamilias and Matresfamilias shall have access to the
email addresses of all members of their gentes and applicants to
their gentes. They may obtain this information from the
web site, when a tool for viewing this is available, or from
the Censores.

(This item is unchanged from its original posting on July 6th).

Valete, M. Octavius Germanicus, Consul.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Myths
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:25:44 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

I would like to point out that there are some myths that can often be
based on truths and should not be overlooked. Take for example the
legend of Romulus and Reamus, the founders of Rome. You all remember
that they were cased into the Tiber by a jealous brother of the King
but survived and were adopted by a wolf. Many would say that is far
fetched but in fact that situation has been documented a few times in
India in our 20th century. These children were discovered living with
wolf packs and nurtured by the mother wolf. When discovered they
snarled and snapped and seemed more animalistic than human. When
eventually they were integrated into society it was discovered that
they were never able to speak a language because those skills have to
be imbedded in the brain from 1 - 3 years of age.

My next example is werewolves. They were mentioned by the
Romans and their myth has lasted 2000 years. In ancient and medieval
times people were somtimes bitten by rabid wolves. Hydrophobia or
rabies is 100% fatal if not treated within 6 weeks by a vaccine not
invented until the 1890's. The victim goes crazy insane, takes off,
runs in the forests often attacking anyone. A month or 2 in those
conditions would make anyone look and behave like a monster.

In the middle ages in Europe, especially Gaul ( France) the
dark wheat growing there was often infected with a type of fungus
that caused severe hallucinations when digested mostly by the
peasants. There were many people (perhaps like Joan of Arc) who were
affected by this and they would have seen God, witches, vampires,
dragons etc. and really not be lying. Now one point I would like to
make that is out of Rome's time but important. Although many innocent
people died in the dark, middle and later ages falsely accused of
witch craft or devil worship, there were some instances where evil
practices did occur and were justifiably destroyed. A classic example
was the Star Chamber set up by Louis XV1 in France to investigate
some of the nobility involved in sacrifice, murder etc, a century
later the Hellfires club in England.

Remember the Greek myth of the Minotaur? Well they found part of
a Labyrinth in Crete. I am sure the minotaur could have been some
sort of huge gladiator dressed up with the head of a bull to frighten
victims. He would have been just as lethal with a club or sharp
sword! The scary thing here is that human - animal hybrids will be a
possibility in the future. They are talking about crossing people
with partial genes of fish, amphibians etc, etc, etc. to adapt to
harsh conditions on other worlds. Not really Sci - Fi. In Germany
last year the crossed a pig's genes with human genes. Fortunately
they destroyed the embryo after 32 cell divisions. Now a system
called parthenogenesis occurs somtimes in nature, especially with
bees. This is where a germ cell (female) replicates itself without
fertilization. The chance of this happening is more than 1 / billion
in humans but it can happen. Perhaps the virgin birth Christians
believe in could really have happened.

Well sorry to be long winded but I wanted to throw in some
thoughts answering some of the discussions over the last few days. I
am scientifically trained and skeptical in nature but it is
impossible for me to dismiss all myths and theology. I welcome any
thoughts or critiques you have on my point of view! Who knows, in a
few hindred years we may have real centuars, minotaurs, griffins etc.
fighting in the arenas.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Hello.
From:	MVariusPM@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:36:58 EDT

Salve,

Greetings and welcome, Laurenicus Falvius Magus. I, too, am new and having
a wonderful time exchanging ideas and information.

Valate,
Marcus Varius Pullus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] ACADEMIA: Basic Course about Nova Roma (2nd Edition)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:55:02 +0100 (BST)

Gnaeus Salix Astur Populo Novo Romano S.P.D.

It is my pleasure to announce the opening of the inscription period
for the latest course of the Academia Thules: a second edition of the
much cherished Basic Course about Nova Roma, imparted by our never too
exalted senator Titus Labienus Fortunatus.

About Titus Labienus Fortunatus little can be said that is not
already known by the general public. He is extremely respected by his
common sense and kindness, and the previous edition of his Basic
Course about Nova Roma was a complete success.

The Basic Course about Nova Roma, which is especially aimed towards
citizens, both new and old, who want to get a concise and general
vision of what all this fuss is about :-), will accept new
subscriptions until August 15th. The course will begin on August
19th, and will last for 8 weeks.

If you subscribe to this course, you will recieve further
instructions a few days before the beginning of the course.

So if you are interested in knowing a little more about Nova Roma in
general, I invite you to subscribe today at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Name change
From:	"Tib. Equitius Germanicus" <tyrael_equitius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:52:42 -0500

Omnibus salutem multam dicit Tib. Equitius Germanicus
I would like to publicly anounce that I have officially changed my praenomen from Amulius to Tiberius. Thus, I am no longer Amulius Equitius Germanicus, I am now Tiberius Equitius Germanicus.
DI VOS INCOLVMES CVSTODIANT

PRAEFECTVS ET SCRIBA MAIOR TERRITORIORVM
SODALIS SODALITATIS EGGRESI
GENTILIS PATRICIAE GENTIS EQVITIAE
CIVIS NOVAE ROMAE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]