Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Resigntation as Tribunus
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:01:36 -0300 (ART)

Avete, omnes

--- Claudius Salix Davianus <salixdavianus@terra.es>
escreveu: > Saluete Patres Conscripti, saluete cives:
>
> Due to my poorly command in the affair of the
> Collegium Pontificium
> I am not deserve, continuing being Tribune by my
> particular incompetence
> in this affair.

M. Arminius: I doesnt think that you needs to resign
from your position for this mistake. I think that if a
sacerdos or a magistrate take offense from your
actions or words, a sincere apology is enough.

> I wish express my apologies to all persons affected
> by my negligent
> words. As a romanus, my "dignitas" prevent me to
> continue acting as
> a Tribune. I expect the Senate accept my resignation
> as Tribune of this year.

M. Arminius: As a Tribunus Plebis, i veto this action.

:)
No, Claudius Salix, you showed industria, common
sense, etc here in the Collegium Tribunicium. Please
reconsider. Besides, no one can afford with one more
campaign here in the Comitia Plebis!

> Valete bene,
> Cl. Salix Davianus

Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis

_______________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Encontros
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Market Days
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Hirtius=20Helveticus?=" <hirtius75ch@yahoo.de>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:11:00 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete Quirites

I am wondering about Market Days. What time (Roman
Time preferably, since that is CET) do the chats
start? I have been to the chat room several times
(even around 2 a.m. CET), but there were any others...

Valete bene,

=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
------------------------------
paterfamilias gentis Hirtiarum
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
------------------------------
Yahoo!/AIM/MSN: hirtius75ch
icq: 155762490

__________________________________________________________________

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Market Days
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:14:23 -0500 (CDT)

Salve A. Hirti,

> I am wondering about Market Days. What time (Roman
> Time preferably, since that is CET) do the chats
> start? I have been to the chat room several times
> (even around 2 a.m. CET), but there were any others...

Generally, on those market days where I announce a chat and ask
people to join, we try to have two sessions: one at about 8pm
GMT, another at about 8pm US/Central.

Today is a market day, so all are invited to come to the chat
area now.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Resigntation as Tribunus
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:29:35 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Claudius Salix Davianus" <salixdavianus@t...>
wrote:
> Saluete Patres Conscripti, saluete cives:
>
> Due to my poorly command in the affair of the Collegium Pontificium
> I am not deserve, continuing being Tribune by my particular
incompetence
> in this affair.
>
> I wish express my apologies to all persons affected by my negligent
> words. As a romanus, my "dignitas" prevent me to continue acting as
> a Tribune. I expect the Senate accept my resignation as Tribune of
> this year.
>

Salve Cl. Salix Davianus,

In life all people make mistakes and do things they regret or would
do differently later. Some are big mistakes others are minor. This
is a minor error and hardly throws the government of Nova Roma in to
chaos. As a Tribune you received a complaint from a citizen and
responded to that complaint. That is what a Tribune (or any other
elected official) is suppose to do. Knowing now what you didn't know
when you responded I'm sure you'd do different in the future. I hate
to see anyone resign the office the voters entrusted with them over a
minor faux pas. I do ask you reconsider this resignation even though
I am not a Plebian.

Pax,

Quintus Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: PONTIFF APPLICATION - Fabius Salix Lucentinus
From:	"cassius622" <cassius622@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:44:20 -0000

Salve,

There is certainly no problem on my part. I just wanted to make it
quite clear that there has been no negligence in this matter. Our
other option was to refuse Fabius Salix Lucentinus application
entirely as it was sent two months too early. Surely that would have
been worse than holding the application until it is legal!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Claudius Salix Davianus" <salixdavianus@t...>
wrote:
> Care Cassi,
>
> My apologies to you if you considered that may previous posting was
an attack.
> By no means, I only wished to state a series of facts concerning
the application
> of a citizens. I only read the postings send by this citizens, and
the postings received
> by this citizens, and I had the impression of some negligence. But
by no means
> I pressupose bad intentions in any persons [only possibly
negligence but no more]
>
> Cl. Salix Davianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Resigntation as Tribunus
From:	"cassius622" <cassius622@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:47:08 -0000

Salvete,

Nonsense. There is no point in resigning over one post. If everyone
was to do this whenever a mistake was made there would be no one left
in Nova Roma... most especially myself! (When I think of all the
errors I've made, I guess I'd have had to resign something every
month or two.)

So far you have been an excellent tribune, and Nova Roma and the rest
of us would be far the poorer were you to resign. Please do exersize
your option to reconsider this and keep your post!

Valete ,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Claudius Salix Davianus" <salixdavianus@t...>
wrote:
> Saluete Patres Conscripti, saluete cives:
>
> Due to my poorly command in the affair of the Collegium Pontificium
> I am not deserve, continuing being Tribune by my particular
incompetence
> in this affair.
>
> I wish express my apologies to all persons affected by my negligent
> words. As a romanus, my "dignitas" prevent me to continue acting as
> a Tribune. I expect the Senate accept my resignation as Tribune of
> this year.
>
> Valete bene,
> Cl. Salix Davianus
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Resigntation as Tribunus
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:17:58 -0000

> Please do exersize
> your option to reconsider this and keep your post!
>
> Valete ,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
>
>

Just a reminder:


CONSULAR EDICTUM
ON THE RESIGNATION OF OFFICES
Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.

Pending passage of a lex and/or Senatus Consultum covering the
subject of the resignations of magistrates and other officials of
Nova Roma, this edictum is hereby issued.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

CONSULAR EDICTUM ON THE RESIGNATION OF OFFICES
I. The taking up of an office, elected or appointed, within Nova Roma
is a commitment to the Republic as a whole. It is expected that,
barring the most severe personal or political circumstances, anyone
holding such an office shall do so through the completion of its
regular term, to the best of his or her ability. Consequently, any
resignation of such an office is not a matter to be done to "make a
statement" or out of pique. Rumination of such actions should take
place before any action is taken, not after.

II. When any office-holder, whether elected or appointed to their
office, announces either in public or through whatever private
communications may be appropriate (i.e., by informing the Senate,
informing the official who appointed the person in question, etc.),
such resignations shall be considered immediately effective, with no
period of grace or reconsideration.

III. Any person resigning an office who should subsequently wish to
return to that office must go through the same process as any other
prospective candidate, and no institutional preference will be given
to such persons in the process of filling the office.

IV. This edictum is effective immediately, as of the 15th day of the
month of June, 2001 AD, and is not retroactive to any resignations
which may have taken place prior to this date. It is also not
effective in regards to any institution which may already have in
place rules regarding the regulation of resignations.

V. A resignation of Citizenship shall also be considered to be a de
facto resignation from all offices, appointed and/or elected, which
the individual may have held at the time, whether or not such
resignation from offices is explicitly made. Should an individual
rescind his or her resignation of Citizenship as allowed by law, such
an action shall not apply to their de facto resignation of office,
and the provisions of this edictum shall apply in full.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices
From:	<3s@hsk-net.de>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:15:37 -0500 (CDT)

Censores L Equitius Cincinnatus et C Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus SPD

For the information of all...
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/consul-2001-06-15-i.html

CONSULAR EDICTUM ON THE RESIGNATION OF OFFICES
I. The taking up of an office, elected or appointed, within Nova Roma is a
commitment to the Republic as a whole. It is expected that, barring the most
severe personal or political circumstances, anyone holding such an office
shall do so through the completion of its regular term, to the best of his
or her ability. Consequently, any resignation of such an office is not a
matter to be done to "make a statement" or out of pique. Rumination of such
actions should take place before any action is taken, not after.

II. When any office-holder, whether elected or appointed to their office,
announces either in public or through whatever private communications may be
appropriate (i.e., by informing the Senate, informing the official who
appointed the person in question, etc.), such resignations shall be
considered immediately effective, with no period of grace or
reconsideration.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation as Tribunus
From:	"alexprobus1" <alexprobus1@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:47:01 -0000

Salve Claudi Salix Daviane,

I would allow myself to respond to your message of resignation. I
think you have shown enough moral power to recognize and applogized
for your mistake /which I tend to believe was made in good will
without any malice/. That pretty well cleaned your reputation and the
issue is closed. On the other hand I call now on your feeling for
responsibility to continue filling your duties as Tribunus Plebis.
You have been elected and got the trust of our citizens. So, do your
job now as a man and Roman.

Bene vale

Alexander I.C. Probus


> Salue Consul Sulla,
>
> I don't resigne by some criticism. I consider I did not do well my
work.
> I only expect one thing with my resignation to pay the price by my
poor
> performance in the affair with Collegium Pontificium.
>
> I consider that a serene and undramatical resignation by my part
will
> "clean" my reputation. Other year I present my candidature for
Tribunus
> and if the people of Rome consider it convenient I will be Tribunus
other
> time ;-)
>
> Thanks for your kind-hearted words consul, I resign because dignity
not
> criticism [on the other hand the criticism is a fair one].
>
> Cl. Salix Davianus
> =================
> Solum Civis Honestus
> only a honest citizen.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: El Estudio sobre la Religion Mitraica ya lo teneis disponible
From:	tiberius.ann@bluemail.ch
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:04:46 +0200

Salvete omnes, Salve Quinte Lani Pauline,

>Salve Tiberi, I translated this message late last night but it did
>not get through I guess. I'll try again.

It did now!!!! Thank you very much for your work. As the official Translator
for the German Language, I can tell you, that I know how much work this
office brings with it!!!

>Dear friends,
>
>The study about the God Mithra and the Mitraica religion you now have
>at your disposal on the internet. You can find it in the following
>email address htpp://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/ForoDelDiosMithra. Go
>the the archive file in the website and you'll find the English
>version. I hope that you like it and look forward to hearing your
>comments.
>
>Enos Pastrana,
>Order of the God Mithra
>
>I hope that helps Tiberi,

Oh, yes, it does. Thanks again. My real and roman uncle is a follower of
Mithras and I am sure, that he will be very interested in this!!!!

Greetings from Switzerland, Tiberius Annaeus Otho

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation as Tribunus
From:	tiberius.ann@bluemail.ch
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:23:36 +0200

Salvete omnes,

As a patrician civis, I am sure, that under normal circumstances, I am not
supposed to meddle in this affair. However, I feel, that this is not a normal
circumstance, but a very desperate problem for some people.

Tribune, it is your duty, which you have sworn to do by oath of office,
to help the plebejan cives in Nova Roma. As a citizen of this State, I would
like to congratulate you on the way you do this job.

In ancient Rome, the tribuni plebis were untouchable. For no action could
they be harmed. It is my outmost believe, that this should also be so in
Nova Roma.

Therefore: I beg you on my knees to reconsider your resignation. Keep up
the good work and do not dispair!!!

Rethink it and take it back, pleeeeaaaaase!!!

Sincerely, citizen Tiberius Annaeus Otho

paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
translator linguae Germanicae
Lictor curiatus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Absentia Caii Flavii Diocletiani
From:	"cfdflaviusdio" <3s@hsk-net.de>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:16:03 -0000

Salvete,

summer vacation time arrives, so I´ll be absent from July 19 to
August 11. From August 12 I´ll be back again. It seems that I´ll be
without internet connection the whole time.

Next week I´ll be in Bratislava for a couple of days, to visit
Senator Alexander Probus. Then I´ll do some trips in Germany.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] To Tribune Salix Davianus
From:	Marcus Vitellius Ligus <mvitelliusligus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:18:32 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Pompeia Cornelia
If you have all your mistakes on a single disk, I'm impressed...I maintain a library of CD's for mine....

In a serious note, Honoured Tribune Salix Davianus, I have to agree with the rest of the civies. I'm certain that if you think this through a little firther and objectively, you will come to the exact same conculsion that a minor error does not warrant the resignation of a dedicated and well versed Tribune, and that you would fight just as hard for another Tribune doint this exact thing. Please do not beat yourself up over this and reconsider your resignation.

Vale,

pompeia_cornelia <trog99@hotmail.com> wrote: Salve Honoured Tribune Salix Davianus:

The fact that you were advocating on a civies behalf for his right to
be heard is commendable.

There was nothing wrong with what you did as Tribune....that's what
you are supposed to do.

But the list guidelines do suggest that we all make an effort to take
such matters privately.



So, you didn't.....a minor discourtesy, really. The reason I
mentioned it, is that we should not make that sort of thing habitual.

You are giving yourself a captial punishment over something
minor ...like jaywalking.

Please don't do that!!!!! Tribune Salix Davianus, I have made many
mistakes....if you like I'll download them all onto a disc for you :)

No, no....please don't quit.

Bene vale,
Pompeia

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New symbols of Provincia Italia
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:27:59 +0200

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

As you have readen in my Edictum VIII the Provincia Italia have new
wonderful symbols.

The official hymn is entitled CORMA DEIS and composed by Illustrus Manius
Constantinus Serapio. During the Comitia it's have received the 100% of
votes.
I's created for a group of 5 tubae, 1 tympanum and cymbali, however the
group can be larger.
It's represents the return of Roman Virtutes in Italy.
You can listen the hymn at http://italia.novaroma.org/inno/inno-italia.mid

The new symbol of the Provincia is entitled PENINSULA ITALICA and created by
Gaius Quirinus Longinus Minor, not a nova roman citizens but an our good
friend. It's have taken the 25% of votes.
The flag have the map of Italy in the Nova Roma's gold crown of laurel. You
can see the new flag at http://italia.novaroma.org/logo/quirinus2.jpg

At the end now the Provincia Italia have the protection of the great Dea
Roma. She have been choosen by the 46,6% of the italian citizens as known in
the italia "Altare della Patria" in Rome. Here She have a statue seeming the
Goddess Minerva and today She represents the Italy.
Each citizen of Provincia Italia is invited to honourate our Goddess.

You can see the list of symbols at
http://italia.novaroma.org/tabularium/egressus/symbols.htm . Here you can
see the statue of Dea Roma in the Altare della Patria too.

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:35:23 +0200

3s@hsk-net.de wrote:
> CONSULAR EDICTUM ON THE RESIGNATION OF OFFICES

Salvete, omnes.

I was under the impression that, as in ancient Roma, edicts had the
power of law only as long as the period of magistracy, if not the
successors prorogated it, which is not the case regarding this
particular edict. Am I mistaken?

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:53:18 EDT

Salvete,

As a Senator of Nova Roma, I must say I am not at all sure that this attempt
by Cl. Salix Davianus is covered by the spirit of this edictum. As far as I
am aware, this edict was created as a shield so that magistrates could not
use resignation as a political tactic. In the past we have had a few people
who were prone to resiging every time a vote didn't go their way, etc.

This situation, on the other hand, was directed at the person holding the
office rather than at others. I do not believe it was the intent of this
edict to treat embarassment and apology in the same way as divisive political
tactics.

I continue to hope that Salix Davianus will be able to take up his office
once again. He's done a fine job, and is obviously sincere. This was a small
error and no harm has been done. If worst comes to worst and this edict is
enforced, as the 'aggreived' party I publicly declare that there is no
problem and will formally petition the Senate to correct this situation by
Senatus Consultum.

Cl. Salix Davianus for Tribune! :)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator, Pontifex Maximus

Caius Flavius Diocletianus writes:

Censores L Equitius Cincinnatus et C Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus SPD

For the information of all...
<A HREF="http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/consul-2001-06-15-i.html">http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/consul-2001-06-15-i.html</A>

CONSULAR EDICTUM ON THE RESIGNATION OF OFFICES
I. The taking up of an office, elected or appointed, within Nova Roma is a
commitment to the Republic as a whole. It is expected that, barring the most
severe personal or political circumstances, anyone holding such an office
shall do so through the completion of its regular term, to the best of his
or her ability. Consequently, any resignation of such an office is not a
matter to be done to "make a statement" or out of pique. Rumination of such
actions should take place before any action is taken, not after.

II. When any office-holder, whether elected or appointed to their office,
announces either in public or through whatever private communications may be
appropriate (i.e., by informing the Senate, informing the official who
appointed the person in question, etc.), such resignations shall be
considered immediately effective, with no period of grace or
reconsideration.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Resigntation as Tribunus
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:55:57 -0300 (ART)

Lucius Arminius Faustus ad Claudi Salix quiritisqve

Please, do not resign, reconsider. You made everything a tribune must do. If Caius Graccus had resigned under the fury of Opimius and the optimates, what would be the Republic? And Cato, that had run for Tribune to take off pernicious candidates? And so many strong sacrosaints men that honoured the position of official plebs defenders! Mistakes are the price of living. Well, now apologize to the Pontifical College and the life goes on! Bad tribunes, that do not cry or even discuss, do not error.
I really must agree to Salix about using English as a second/third language, not sometime, but everytime you seem rash or (on the contrary) pompous. It is really a pain and I really get worried when I write on the list.



Message: 16
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:19:18 -0500
From: "Claudius Salix Davianus" <salixdavianus@terra.es>
Subject: Resigntation as Tribunus

Saluete Patres Conscripti, saluete cives:

Due to my poorly command in the affair of the Collegium Pontificium
I am not deserve, continuing being Tribune by my particular
incompetence
in this affair.

I wish express my apologies to all persons affected by my negligent
words. As a romanus, my "dignitas" prevent me to continue acting as
a Tribune. I expect the Senate accept my resignation as Tribune of
this year.

Valete bene,
Cl. Salix Davianus



Vale,




L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae

Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html



Se de ócio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,

Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...

Satira Quarta, Horácio


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Encontros - O lugar certo para encontrar a sua alma gêmea.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation as Tribunus
From:	"amrcg" <antonio.grilo@inov.pt>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:39:08 -0000

Salvete Tribune Daviane et omnes

I would like you to reconsider retaking your position as Tribunus. In
fact, maybe the error was not only your own. I have reasons to think
that your posting was also inspired on my recent complaints in the
Senate. I am sorry for having contributed to lead you to this
situation. Please return to the duty you have been fulfiling so well,
which honours so much Hispania Provincia.

Vale bene
Graecus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:43:48 -0000

---


Salve Honoured Quaestor:



I know in antiquita the Praetors edicta were applicable during his
term in office, and it was up to the next Praetor to either honour
this, or issue another one.

Edictum are not laws....they have never been ratified by the people
and have never been commented on formally by the Senate.

Edictum are very easy to amend by the magistrate currently holding
that office.

Mind you, they are subject to the same intercessio powers in place by
our system, but as I see it, but another edictum could be issued
replacing the old one.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia
Praetor



In Nova-Roma@y..., Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> 3s@h... wrote:
> > CONSULAR EDICTUM ON THE RESIGNATION OF OFFICES
>
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> I was under the impression that, as in ancient Roma, edicts had the
> power of law only as long as the period of magistracy, if not the
> successors prorogated it, which is not the case regarding this
> particular edict. Am I mistaken?
>
> Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Longevity of Edicta (was Reminder...)
From:	labienus@texas.net
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:30:09 US/Central

Salve Tite Octavi

> I was under the impression that, as in ancient Roma, edicts had the
> power of law only as long as the period of magistracy, if not the
> successors prorogated it, which is not the case regarding this
> particular edict. Am I mistaken?

Yes, you are mistaken. In Nova Roma, edicta do not have an expiration date.
Therefore, subsequent magistrates must repeal those edicta they disagree with,
rather than re-enact the ones they wish to preserve.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:30:56 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete Quirites,

Having read the Edict concerning registration, and the various
arguments, I have decided to take no action to remove
Tribune Claudius Salix. I leave the decision to accept or
reject his resignation in the hands of his fellow Tribunes.

There are four reasons for this:

First, we have the historical treatment of edicts: they were
applicable during the issuing magistrate's term of office, and
would be honored in subsequent years only at the option of those
later magistrates. Pompeia Cornelia and Titus Octavius have
already referred to this practice.

Secondly, the edict we are referring to today was, on its issue,
preceded with this statement:

"Pending passage of a lex and/or Senatus Consultum covering the
subject of the resignations of magistrates and other officials of
Nova Roma, this edictum is hereby issued."

This indicates that Consul Vedius intended that his edict be a
temporary solution. He intended to bring this issue to the Senate
or the Comitia, but this did not happen.

Now that we have this reminder, I will make an effort to put
such a rule before the Senate this year. I think a 24-hour
waiting period for resigning of offices would be an appropriate
compromise between our goals of preventing frivolous resignations
and allowing reconsideration of a hasty decision.

Next, the resignation was made, not as some calculated political
maneuver, but as a sincere apology for having insulted the
Pontifex Maximus. Marcus Cassius Pontifex Maximus has accepted
the apology, stated that "no harm was done", and that he wishes
to see Tribune Claudius Salix continue in that office. As the
offended party, his choice should be honored.

And lastly, the Tribunate is a special case. This is a magistracy
elected by the Plebeian citizens to protect their rights. His person
is sacrosanct. I do not think it right that I, a Patrician, should
interfere in a purely Plebeian manner.

Thus, I decline to enforce the edict, and leave this matter to
the Tribunes to settle amongst themselves.

M. Octavius Germanicus,
Consul.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Longevity of Edicta (was Reminder...)
From:	labienus@texas.net
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:32:01 US/Central

Salvete

It seems that I must once again offer evidence that I am only human after all.

In response to a question asked by Titus Octavius, I said, "In Nova Roma,
edicta do not have an expiration date." Having looked at our documents and
thought about the subject further, I find that I was mistaken.

Early on in our history, edicta were assumed to make permanent law, requiring
and edictum or more potent law in order to be overturned. As time went on and
we learned more about the system we are emulating, some cives mentioned that
this wasn't the case in antiquity. Still, we behaved as though edicta remained
law unless specificly repealed, and some edicta which had been issued by former
magistrates were occasionally held up as existing law. I therefore assumed
that edicta were included in the body of permanent Nova Roman law.

However, there is no support for such longevity for edicta anywhere in our
laws. The subject is simply not mentioned. Therefore, since the preamble of
our constitution heavily implies that ancient practice is to serve as our guide
when our modern laws do not address an issue, I am forced to conclude that Nova
Roman edicta do not in fact have any force of law after the issuing magistrate
leaves office. Instead, such expired edicta serve as a record of precedent for
following magistrates to follow or ignore as they see fit.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:38:25 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices



Salvete Quirites,

Avete Colleague et Omnes,

Having read the Edict concerning registration, and the various
arguments, I have decided to take no action to remove
Tribune Claudius Salix. I leave the decision to accept or
reject his resignation in the hands of his fellow Tribunes.

Sulla: I too have read the edict, I read it the moment that Tribune Salix resigned. I do not see how we can not enforce the edict. Especially with the comments of Senator T. Labienus. Let me comment below:

There are four reasons for this:

First, we have the historical treatment of edicts: they were
applicable during the issuing magistrate's term of office, and
would be honored in subsequent years only at the option of those
later magistrates. Pompeia Cornelia and Titus Octavius have
already referred to this practice.

Sulla: We do not have anything current in regards to the constitution that would comply to this stance. Especially given the legal precedence clause of the Constitution of Nova Roma there is no "expiration date" on edicta, they carry the force of law. The constitution states:
1.. Legal precedence. This Constitution shall be the highest legal authority within Nova Roma, apart from edicts issued by a legally appointed dictator. It shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by edicta issued by consuls acting under the Senatus consultum ultima, laws properly voted and passed by one of the comitia, decreta passed by the collegium pontificum, decreta passed by the collegium augurium, Senatus consulta, and magisterial edicta (in order of descending authority as described in section IV of this Constitution), in that order. Should a lower authority conflict with a higher authority, the higher authority shall take precedence. Should a law passed by one comitia contradict one passed by another or the same comitia without explicitly superceding that law, the most recent law shall take precedence.
And specifically the Constitution states that the if there is a conflict the lower authority loses. There is no conflict such conflict in this case.


Secondly, the edict we are referring to today was, on its issue,
preceded with this statement:

"Pending passage of a lex and/or Senatus Consultum covering the
subject of the resignations of magistrates and other officials of
Nova Roma, this edictum is hereby issued."

This indicates that Consul Vedius intended that his edict be a
temporary solution. He intended to bring this issue to the Senate
or the Comitia, but this did not happen.

Sulla: According to the Legal Precdence clause of the Constitution an Edict is the lowest form of law and still a binding law until revoked or challenged by higher law. This has not been done.

Now that we have this reminder, I will make an effort to put
such a rule before the Senate this year. I think a 24-hour
waiting period for resigning of offices would be an appropriate
compromise between our goals of preventing frivolous resignations
and allowing reconsideration of a hasty decision.

Sulla: Thats fine...as long as there is a check to prevent a magistrate from abuse of that clause.

Next, the resignation was made, not as some calculated political
maneuver, but as a sincere apology for having insulted the
Pontifex Maximus. Marcus Cassius Pontifex Maximus has accepted
the apology, stated that "no harm was done", and that he wishes
to see Tribune Claudius Salix continue in that office. As the
offended party, his choice should be honored.

Sulla: Intent was not part of the edict when it was promulgated. We must enforce the laws that we have. We are supposed to be a micronation of laws. I specifically emailed Claudius Salix to ask him to reconsider but legally we do not have a way to bring him back....let the Plebs vote him back in.

And lastly, the Tribunate is a special case. This is a magistracy
elected by the Plebeian citizens to protect their rights. His person
is sacrosanct. I do not think it right that I, a Patrician, should
interfere in a purely Plebeian manner.

Sulla: This part I agree with, this is something the Comitia Plebis Tributa to decide once the Plebis are summoned to elect a new Tribune.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul

Thus, I decline to enforce the edict, and leave this matter to
the Tribunes to settle amongst themselves.

M. Octavius Germanicus,
Consul.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Tribunes
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:22:56 -0700 (PDT)

Quirites,
The debate over weather the edicta issused by the
former Consul is still in effect is intresting, but in
this case maeningless. The Consuls authority does not
cover the office of the tribune of the Plebs. NO
Edictia by a past or current Consul, Praetor, or any
other magistrate can affect the Tribunes term of
office.

I'm glad to hear that a lex may be proposed to cover
the matter of resignations, however I have to point
out that no lex passed by the People or the Centuries
has any effect on the Tribunes Office. That is the
sole perogitive of the Plebs, so any law on
resignations would also have to be voted on in the
Plebian assembly before it would be binding on a
resignation of office by a Tribune.

The acceptance or rejection of the resignation of a
tribune is the perogitive of his fellow tribunes, not
of any other magistrate.

L. Sicinius Drusus

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: El Estudio sobre la Religion Mitraica ya lo teneis disponible
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:31:34 -0000

Salve Tiberi, Greetings from Canada Occidentales,

I am glad to be of some help. The Mithra forum is a nice site and
they are very friendly. Please let me know if you need any help in
Spanish translation. I'll do what I can although I'm not an official
translator as you are. Meanwhile Senator Pompeia Cornelia kindly
contacted me and said that she forwarded the translated text to the
Senate for their consideration; they are the body that takes care of
diplomatic relations.
Take care and have a good weekend in Switzerland!

Yours Respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


I> Oh, yes, it does. Thanks again. My real and roman uncle is a
follower of
> Mithras and I am sure, that he will be very interested in this!!!!
>
> Greetings from Switzerland, Tiberius Annaeus Otho

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Resigntation as Tribunus
From:	"Gaius Galerius Viator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:43:24 +0000

Dear Salix

I hope you'd reconsider your resignation. Please don't take it so hard. We
like you around here, have confidence in your abilities and intentions, and
always look forward to your comments on Latin and other matters.

You are dedicated and your absence will be terribly missed.

Gaius Galerius Viator.
>From: "Claudius Salix Davianus" <salixdavianus@terra.es>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To:
><Senatus@societasviaromana.org>,<Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>,<CollegiumTribunicium@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resigntation as Tribunus
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:19:18 -0500
>
>Saluete Patres Conscripti, saluete cives:
>
>Due to my poorly command in the affair of the Collegium Pontificium
>I am not deserve, continuing being Tribune by my particular incompetence
>in this affair.
>
>I wish express my apologies to all persons affected by my negligent
>words. As a romanus, my "dignitas" prevent me to continue acting as
>a Tribune. I expect the Senate accept my resignation as Tribune of
>this year.
>
>Valete bene,
>Cl. Salix Davianus
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] To Tribune Salix Davianus
From:	Diana Aventina <diana_aventina@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:58:14 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Honoured Tribune Salix Davianus:

I agree with Pompeia! Don't quit! An "oops sorry"
would have been good enough :-)
Diana

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Absentia Caii Flavii Diocletiani
From:	Diana Aventina <diana_aventina@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Caius Flavius Diocletianus,

The Nova Roma Europa Rally is in Tongeren,
Belgium on Aug 9, 10, 11 but some of our
colleagues will be arriving on the 8th. Why don't
you also come ? Belgium is just a quick roman
trot from Germany!

Diana


__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] ATTN [Religio Romana]: ante diem XV Kalendas Sextilias (July 18th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <antonio.grilo@inov.pt>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:51:54 +0100

PONTIFEX ANTONIVS GRYLLVS GRAECVS OMNIBVS CIVIBVS SALVTEM

This is one of the dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens can vote
on political or criminal matters.

Today is also considered a 'dies religiosus' in which it is considered wrong
('nefas') to do anything that is not absolutely necessary, namely:
- To engage in battle;
- To enlist soldiers;
- To hold Comitia;
- To start a trip;
- To marry.

Today is the Alliensis Dies, which marks a double military disaster. In this
day, the Fabii were anihilated in an ambush at Cremera. In this day too, in
390 BCE, the Romans were defeated at the Allia river by the Gauls led by
Brennus, which caused the capture and burning of Rome. From this later
disaster, the day came to be called Alliensis Dies ("Day of the Allia"). The
defeat was due to the fact that "consular tribune Sulpicius had not offered
acceptable sacrifices on July 16th (the day after the Ides), and without
having secured the good will of the Gods, the Roman army was exposed to the
enemy. Some think that it was for this reason that on the day after the Ides
in each month, all religious functions were suspended, and hence it became
the custom to observe the second and the middle days of the month in the
same way (see [Livius, A.U.C. 6.1]).
It is due to these disasters well present in the memory of the romans that
today is a "dies ater" (black day) or "dies religiosus" (ill-omened day) to
be observed through abstinence of public and private business.

The month of Quinctilis is sacred to Iuppiter. It was renamed Iulius in 44
BCE in honour of the deified C. Iulius Caesar.

Di vos bene ament

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:40:53 +0100 (BST)

Salvete Quirites.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 7:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the
> Resignation of Offices
>
>
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Avete Colleague et Omnes,
>
> Having read the Edict concerning registration, and the various
> arguments, I have decided to take no action to remove
> Tribune Claudius Salix. I leave the decision to accept or
> reject his resignation in the hands of his fellow Tribunes.
>
> Sulla: I too have read the edict, I read it the moment that
> Tribune Salix resigned. I do not see how we can not enforce the
> edict. Especially with the comments of Senator T. Labienus. Let me
> comment below:

If Tribune Salix Davianus decides to return to office, I will make use
of my magisterial powers to veto his initial resignation. In that way,
the resignation will not come into effect, and the application of this
edictum will not be necessary.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:49:11 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices


Salvete Quirites.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 7:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the
> Resignation of Offices
>
>
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Avete Colleague et Omnes,
>
> Having read the Edict concerning registration, and the various
> arguments, I have decided to take no action to remove
> Tribune Claudius Salix. I leave the decision to accept or
> reject his resignation in the hands of his fellow Tribunes.
>
> Sulla: I too have read the edict, I read it the moment that
> Tribune Salix resigned. I do not see how we can not enforce the
> edict. Especially with the comments of Senator T. Labienus. Let me
> comment below:

If Tribune Salix Davianus decides to return to office, I will make use
of my magisterial powers to veto his initial resignation. In that way,
the resignation will not come into effect, and the application of this
edictum will not be necessary.

Ave,

That works for me since I am in complete agreement with the opinion of Propraetor Lucius Sicinius Drusus. There is no way Consuls, let alone Patrician Consuls, impose laws that regulate the Tribune of the Plebs. A veto is not even necessary. It is up to Davianus to return since the Comitia Plebis has not passed any resignation law that would govern any magistrate elected in the Comitia Plebis Tributa, and probably up to the opinions of the other Tribunes if they want him to return or not, because of the absence of legislation.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reminder: Consular Edictum on the Resignation of Offices
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:58:12 +0100 (BST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, consul Sulla.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Ave,
>
> That works for me since I am in complete agreement with the opinion
> of Propraetor Lucius Sicinius Drusus. There is no way Consuls, let
> alone Patrician Consuls, impose laws that regulate the Tribune of the
> Plebs. A veto is not even necessary. It is up to Davianus to return
> since the Comitia Plebis has not passed any resignation law that
> would govern any magistrate elected in the Comitia Plebis Tributa,
> and probably up to the opinions of the other Tribunes if they want
> him to return or not, because of the absence of legislation.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

I think that what you are saying makes a lot of sense.

As for my opinion, I think that Claudius Salix Davianus has been an
excellent tribune so far, and that he has much to offer to Nova Roma.

And also, given that the opinion of the Senate and the People of Nova
Roma is for him to retain his office, I am impelled to publicly express
my consent to his reinstatement. So if the above reasonement is correct
(and I think it is), Claudius Salix Davianus should end his term of
office, unless three of my colleagues express their discomfort with his return.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Alternate Histories Of Rome
From:	Marucus Quintius Andronicus <gens_quintia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:22:19 -0700 (PDT)

I too have read Steven Saylors books and if you like a
good mystery theme with a basis in the Roman world,
then he's your guy.

Also, I have read Harry Turtledove's "Lost Legion"
Series. It tells the story (in 3 books) of one of
Caesars legions gettin pulled into another world by
magic along with a tribe of Celts whom they were
engaged in battle with. The story focuses on their
trials and adjustments in this new world.

M.Quintius Andronicus

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Longevity of Edicta (was Reminder...)
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:59:39 EDT

In a message dated 7/18/02 7:31:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
labienus@texas.net writes:


> Yes, you are mistaken. In Nova Roma, edicta do not have an expiration date.
>
> Therefore, subsequent magistrates must repeal those edicta they disagree
> with,
> rather than re-enact the ones they wish to preserve

Salvete.

Actually Praetor, you are mistaken. Edictum stand as long as the person
retains his magistracy. It is up to the replacement official to reissue the
edictum. The words "Idem in me" was mentioned on the first day of office if
the new magistrate wishes to continue the old magistrate's edictum.
Neither Octavius Germanicus or Cornelius Sulla, upheld any Cassian or Vedian
edictums to the best of my knowledge, (You may be better informed then I,
Titius Labienus about this.)
If either of the Consules wish to issue a new edictum about resignations they
are free to do so if they did not upheld the pervious edicta. Vedius'
edictum would be reinforced in such a case.
However if neither did so, the resignation edictum was vacated, and has no
bearing on the unfortunate Tribune's case.
I do remind the Consules, as a former Consul, that the edictum was issued to
prevent "example" resignations in protests. Our European members did this a
lot last year, and Vedius attempted to curb the practice.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]