Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Hirtius=20Helveticus?=" <hirtius75ch@yahoo.de>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:00:20 +0200 (CEST)

Salve Caie Minuci
Salvete omnes

--- Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
<snip>
> in official terms, or tried to reverse the decision
> by using his
> senatorial power or anything like that; his posting
> seems to me to be
> advice to a friend or a respected associate, and no

I did understand that. As I pointed out, I agree
completely with the honoured senator!

> Implying that it is not his _personal_ business
> would be nothing less
> than rudeness on your part, and I sincerely hope
> that this impression is
> a false one.

It is a false one. Maybe it wasn't very clear, but my
posting wasn't meant to accuse nor insult M. Minucius.
I just wanted to point out, that some did - in fact -
try to meddle with plebeian matters (not M. Minucius,
indeed).

Valete bene,

=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
------------------------------
paterfamilias gentis Hirtiarum
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
------------------------------
Yahoo!/AIM/MSN: hirtius75ch
icq: 155762490

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Dignitas; Edicts; Resignations
From:	"augustus_julius_corius" <augustus_julius_corius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 04:55:10 -0000

Romans... Forgive my brashness, and my ignorance on some of these
events (I have only read a small portion of these message boards).
However... Whether a man is a Tribune of the PLebs, sworn to protect
the lives and rights of the Plebians, or if he is an en-Nobled
Patrician, he is still a ROMAN. No man has the right or authority to
call any other rude by any standard (real or imagined). No Patrician
would dare to violate the sanctity of the Tribune either. Noone has
attempted to usurp any others authority, and no one has purposely
insulted any other person here. Is this not true? Let us leave this
matter now to the the Tribune in question, his people, and the Gods.

On the question of edicts: despite alot of rhetoric about Platoesque
republican ideals, our very own Declarion of Sovereignty states that
our purpose is to regain our sovereign borders dating back to the
time of 395 CE, WELL into the imperial timeline... in which the
DIVINE IMPERATOR HADRIANUS ordered the scholar,

"Salvius Julianus to draw up a permenant edict (edictum perpetuum),
binding upon all present and future praetors WITHOUT ALTERATION or
ADDITION UNLESS AUTHORIZED by the Emporer or by DECREE ot the
SENATE..." [-- History of the Roman People. Ward. Heichelheim & Yeo
1999].

Though there is no express mention of Consuls, Questors, or Tribunes,
I for one am more than willing to surmise that it can be inferred
that this EDICTA PERPETUUM would extend to these offices.

Consuls, Tribunes, Plebians and Patricians we are ROMANS first.
Remember this...

Augustus Julius Corius

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nationhood and RECOGNITION
From:	"augustus_julius_corius" <augustus_julius_corius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 06:14:10 -0000

This is a word for word copy of an e-mail I sent to the Consuls of
Nova Roma:

"I am Augustus Julius Corius. I am curious as to what exactly is
being done at this time to secure our recognition by other
nations,and organizations (such as United Nations, NATO, etc). Do
any of the member nations of the United Nations recognise our
sovereignty? If not, perhaps a committee should be formed to address
these issues."

I for one would be honored to be on such a committee, however in
reality I am far from truly qualified. (I am a 23 year old
undergraduate student of Anthropology, Law, Philosphy, and Politics
at Northern Arizona University). I call upon any attorneys, and or
citizens with experience in ACTUAL diplomatic law and or
international relations to act upon this matter.

I beleive that the question of our recognition by other nations
should the FIRST, and MOST IMPORTANT of all issues before any other
is taken up from this point forward. I call upon our Magistrates and
the Senate to do so also.

AVGVSTVS JVLIVS CORIVS
from within the United States of America; Arizona

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] What's up with the list?
From:	"eudocia_bianchia" <katheryn@terra.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:53:39 -0000

Eudocia Bianchia Catilina Omnibus S.P.D.

Why has the list not been available in the wee hours of the morning
(at least in the Pacific time zone) these past two days? Is there
some sort of maintenance going on? Other (non-Nova Roma) Yahoo groups
lists to which I subscribe are accessible at all hours. I hope that
someone responsible can offer an explanation :-)

Gratias Vobis ago!

Bene Valete en pace Deo!

Eudocia Bianchia Catilina
Angelopolitana
Civis Provinciæ Novaromanæ Californiæ

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] What's up with the list?
From:	"eudocia_bianchia" <katheryn@terra.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:54:32 -0000

Eudocia Bianchia Catilina Omnibus S.P.D.

Why has the list not been available in the wee hours of the morning
(at least in the Pacific time zone) these past two days? Is there
some sort of maintenance going on? Other (non-Nova Roma) Yahoo groups
lists to which I subscribe are accessible at all hours. I hope that
someone responsible can offer an explanation :-)

Gratias Vobis ago!

Bene Valete in Pace Deo!

Eudocia Bianchia Catilina
Angelopolitana
Civis Provinciæ Novaromanæ Californiæ

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] List Availability
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:25:43 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

The List is available at all times. However, if you are fairly new
to Nova Roma as a subscriber, you are automatically placed on
moderated status until we know you are indeed a sincere subscriber
and not someone who is here to cause trouble (trolls), advertise
wares we would rather now hear about here and the like.

As it turns out, the Praetor and most of those who are moderators
live about three hours ahead of you and are sleeping. So, I am sorry
for any inconvenience in this regard.

As a result, your message is delayed a bit...it appears, but it is
delayed. Often Yahoo delays messages as well, when they get bogged
down or have server difficulties (how I justify my pay :))



We have had major problems in the past and that is why it is this why
we do things this way.

I take folks off moderated regularily and I usually do a few a day,
by going through the list and converting those I am aware to be
subscribed for bona fide reasons.

However, if you feel that you are still on moderated and have posted
for a bit, simply write me, and I will attend to the matter a little
faster.

I apologize for any inconvenience in this regard.

Another Solution: Is there anyone from the western regions of the
U.S. or Canada who would like to volunteer as a scriba to the Praetor
for purposes of list moderation. I would entertain applications from
those who have been a citizen atleast six months.

???????



Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia
Praetor et List Moderator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] What's up with the list?
From:	"eudocia_bianchia" <katheryn@terra.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:56:22 -0000

Eudocia Bianchia Catilina Omnibus S.P.D.

Why has the list not been available in the wee hours of the morning
(at least in the Pacific time zone) these past two days? Is there
some sort of maintenance going on? Other (non-Nova Roma) Yahoo groups
lists to which I subscribe are accessible at all hours. I hope that
someone responsible can offer an explanation :-)

Gratias Vobis ago!

Bene Valete in Pace Deo!

Eudocia Bianchia Catilina
Angelopolitana
Civis Provinciæ Novaromanæ Californiæ

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] What's up with the list?
From:	Katheryn Gallant <katheryn@terra.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:02:04 +0100

Eudocia Bianchia Catilina Omnibus S.P.D.

If this message is a duplicate, please forgive me: I have attempted to send
this twice from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/post to no
(apparent) avail.

Why has the list not been available in the wee hours of the morning (at
least in the Pacific time zone) these past two days? Is there some sort of
maintenance going on? Other (non-Nova Roma) Yahoo groups lists to which I
subscribe are accessible at all hours. I hope that someone responsible can
offer an explanation :-)

Gratias Vobis ago!

Bene Valete in Pace Deo!

Eudocia Bianchia Catilina
Angelopolitana
Civis Provinciæ Novaromanæ Californiæ
--
Crie o seu email gratuito no mail.pt
http://www.mail.pt

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Tribune's Resignation
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:49:50 -0400 (EDT)

Citizen's of Nova Roma;

As a Patrician I am not overly concerned with the deliberations of the
Plebian class, and from what I have read on this list, they, in turn, do
not wish me to be.

However, as a Senator, I am concerned with actions which seriously
affect Nova Roma, and on a personal basis concerns which effect changes
in younger citizens, which I think perhaps may be of serious future
concern. I have nothing whatsoever against the former Tribune Davianus.
He has apologized to the Pontifex Maximus, and the matter regarding his
Gens Member has been clarified. The political situation has been
discussed and actions taken by those to whom Imperium has been assigned
by the Citizens of Nova Roma, and I am content with such.

My message to the former Tribune was a message of experience and of
compasson, although many will not recognize it as such. In such cases,
I do not recognize the difference between Plebian and Patrician, but
rather only recognize the status of friend. I do not need anyone to
point out to me what is "my business" and what is not. I am quite
capable of making that decision for myself.

As I said in my former message, Davianus' action is his decision. In
his place (which I am not) I would not have resigned, simply because
resignation proves nothing as Senator and Censor Cinncinatus and others
have indicated.

======================================

In relation to Davianus' message to the Pontifex Maximus, I respond
thusly"

Master Davianus, if you have some doubts regarding your action, then it
is likely that your action was the result of anger or frustration and
perhaps should be rethought in the light of the support that you have
recieved. Some time ago, I did the same as yourself, and resigned in
blind anger. Good friends urged me to return, and I did, glad of the
support and friendship thus offered. The Dictator of that time
indicated that I had never left, since the laws of that time were
different than they are now, and I was a Quaestor and not a Tribune.
However, my Magistrry was taken from me by Dictortorial action, and
approved by the Citizens of Nova Roma, and thus I began the long climb
back to the position that I had once held, by service and work for the
Republic. I am not proud of what I did, and there are those in Nova
Roma whose friendship is still cool because of it. But the Citizens
vindicated my impulsive action, in my view, by supporting my candidacy
for office, not once but many times.

My friend, you stand at a crossroads, and your decision and yours alone
will determine your footsteps. You have read the support that you have
recieved, and you have recieved more advice than you probably want. I
would call you friend, be you Plebian or Patrician, and would welcome
your continued stay with us. But it is in the final stage for you to
make the decision as to where you will go and what you will do, and only
you can decide.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ugly Nova Romans, please read
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:04:16 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

I have just explored a bit in the album on the Nova Roma web site.
And I am dismayed by what I see!

Ok...I am dismayed by what I do not see. I do not see my fellow
citizens. Well, not very many of them anyway. For example, the Gens
Cassia page has only two pictures there. Cassius and Patricia.

I am going to do my part by sending a picture of myself, which I can
somewhat tolerate and does not make me gag too violently when I look
at it.

But fellow citizens---there has to be someone out there who is uglier
than me! Please do not condemn me to being the ugliest Nova Roman in
the album! After all, what have I done to you?

So, if you are ugly, do you think you could scan a picture and send it
in?

If you are NOT ugly, but one of the bold and beautiful, you should
also consider adding your picture, even though to do so would only be
shameless bragging on your part, and we already jealously hate you
enough as it is.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] no one's business
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:56:07 -0000

Salvete omnes.

I respectfully disagree with some of the comments about the
resignation of public officials being the official's business only.
In all walks of life people's resignations affect many of the people
around them both in morale and finances. As an analogy, I had a few
disagreeable arguments with friends of mine who entered and did a
year or two of medical and law school. They had top marks, talked
their way in, gave good sale pitches to the Deans of Admission, aced
the entrance exams etc. Because of a change of heart, loss of
interest or a sudden lucerative job opportunity they just up and
quit! I was also told that was not my business. Said I, nonsense
because 1) Other potentially good doctors or lawyers with slightly
lower grade point averages who may have been better at the job were
eliminated at your expense; you robbed someone elses place; 2) At
that time it costed $150,000 to turn out a doctor or dentist of which
the student payed $15,000. The rest was subsidized by the
intsitution and TAX PAYER.
Similarily I have the same opinion in politics. Many
officials are elected a great expense and get into office only by
the hard work of the campaigners, party mebers and generous
donations. They got their positions at the expense of other
candidates who may actually have done a better job. Their decisions
to suddenly leave GREATLY AFFECT us all so I cannot see how their
affairs are not our business. In my point I do not, of course include
a personal dibilitating illness or family tradgedies. Thank you for
considering my point of view.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Apology2
From:	Diana Moravia Aventina <diana_aventina@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:39:43 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Audens,

Please accept my public apology if I offended you
when I wrote that you sounded as if you were
"pissed off" in your email with the subject
"Pontifex Maximis". Please substitute the word
"annoyed" in my email below.

Volgende keer, zal ik in mijn eigen taal
schrijven, dus zullen er in de toekomst geen
misverstanden meer plaatsvinden.

Mooie Winden & Kalme Zee!

Diana

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Diana Aventina
<diana_aventina@y...> wrote:
Dear Audens,

>I didn't think that the email that you are
>referring to was very rude at all & I really
>didn't see it as an attack on our esteemed
>Pontifex Maximus. It just seemed like an inquiry
>to me about what happened to someone's
>application.

>Sometimes, when people are writing or reading an
>email (especially if English is their second or
>third language)things may seem abrupt or rude
>when the person didn't mean it at all that way.
>Like I am sure that you didn't mean to come
>across as really pissed off, but you did :-)

>Ave,
>Diana

--- James Mathews <jmath669642reng@webtv.net>
wrote:
> From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net (James Mathews)
> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:51:25 -0400 (EDT)
> To: diana_aventina@yahoo.com
> Subject: Resignation
>
> Diana Aventina;
>
> Your choice to use gutter language in a message
> to me is unacceptable
> and insulting. You obviously do not have the
> ability to properly use
> the English language, and must resort to such
> epithets in desperation to
> get your shallow ideas across.
>
> You will in the future refrain from addressing
> further E-Mail messages
> to me, until either you apologize for your
> gutter language, or learn to
> use the language without such flth.
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens








__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Sodalitas Musarum still functioning?
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:02:38 -0000

I think it is also worth mentioning that the people involved in the
Sodalitas Musarum are artisitic geniuses. Works of brilliance and
genius cannot be rushed or produced on a regular schedule. This may
give the illusion that the sodalitas is inactive...but the reality
certainly is that the people there are busy creating works of
greatness whcih will appear in due time.

G.C. Nerva

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Ugly Nova Romans, please read
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:59:58 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@c...> wrote:
>> If you are NOT ugly, but one of the bold and beautiful, you should
> also consider adding your picture, even though to do so would only
be
> shameless bragging on your part, and we already jealously hate you
> enough as it is.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva

Salve Gai Cassi Nerva!

I am one of those Nova Romans who has fear of sending in my beautiful
portrait! There are not enough priests in Nova Roma to stand behind
me in my chariot or sit in my car to constantly tap my shoulder and
whisper - "Remember Quintus, thou art mortal!" Sorry Gai, pardon my
warped sense of humor! Don't I wish! Anyway I sent my sorry photo in
a few days ago to be posted. It may take the webmasters a little time
to get in done. I agree with your idea because it is nice to put a
face to those you communicate with. Have a good weekend.

Salve bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Dignitas; Edicts; Resignations
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:56:50 -0000

"...our very own Declarion of Sovereignty states that
our purpose is to regain our sovereign borders dating back to the
time of 395 CE"

The declaration actually lays claim to the borders of the empire, but
then immediately admits this is impossible and unrealistic, and so
drastically limits territorial claims to a forum about the size of the
Vatican and that all places where Nova ROman events are held are under
a "dual sovereignity" for the duration of the event. Nova Roma is
certainly NOT trying to restore the borders of the Empire.

As for the Emperor Hadrian, while anyone is free to consider him
divine, I do not believe Nova Roma accepts the deifications of
Emperors as binding upon itself or upon the citizenry, and not as a
matter of policy. I point this out because your use of all caps {THE
DIVINE EMPEROR....} seems to be implying that the fact that the Roman
senate deified him, this somehow makes him an authority for Nova Roma.

If I have misread or misunderstood your post, I will apologise in advance.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ugly Nova Romans, please read
From:	Diana Moravia Aventina <diana_aventina@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:02:48 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Caius Cassius Nerva!

I enjoy the photos on the website too! It is so
nice to see the photos of people that you
regularly correspond with and that become a part
of our lives (even if it is via the internet).

Since I look like the a modern creation of the
Goddess Venus herself ;-) I have already sent in
my photo.

Greetings,
Diana

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Ugly Nova Romans, please read
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 20:10:15 -0000

---

LOL!!!

A most entertaining post mi Nerva, with a very good idea :)

Po

In Nova-Roma@y..., "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@c...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I have just explored a bit in the album on the Nova Roma web
site.
> And I am dismayed by what I see!
>
> Ok...I am dismayed by what I do not see. I do not see my fellow
> citizens. Well, not very many of them anyway. For example, the
Gens
> Cassia page has only two pictures there. Cassius and Patricia.
>
> I am going to do my part by sending a picture of myself, which I can
> somewhat tolerate and does not make me gag too violently when I look
> at it.
>
> But fellow citizens---there has to be someone out there who is
uglier
> than me! Please do not condemn me to being the ugliest Nova Roman
in
> the album! After all, what have I done to you?
>
> So, if you are ugly, do you think you could scan a picture and send
it
> in?
>
> If you are NOT ugly, but one of the bold and beautiful, you should
> also consider adding your picture, even though to do so would only
be
> shameless bragging on your part, and we already jealously hate you
> enough as it is.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Ugly Nova Romans, please read
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:29:21 EDT

In a message dated 7/20/2002 2:15:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gcassiusnerva@cs.com writes:


> If you are NOT ugly, but one of the bold and beautiful, you should
> also consider adding your picture, even though to do so would only be
> shameless bragging on your part, and we already jealously hate you
> enough as it is.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva

What needs to be done to add a picture? I would be happy to upload a photo
of myself.

Gaius Cassius Athanasius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Ugly Nova Romans, please read
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:27:16 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Gai Cassi,

> What needs to be done to add a picture? I would be happy to upload a photo
> of myself.

You can mail it to "webmaster@novaroma.org". The Curator or a scriba
will then ensure that it is appropriate, crop to the appropriate size,
and post it to the site.

(This usually doesn't happen right away - it's easier to do a large
number of the photos at once, so it may be a few weeks.)

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE COMITIA ARE CONVENED
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:30:03 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

The Comitia Centuriata and Comitia Populi Tributa are hereby convened.
The auguries have been taken and found favorable.

Voting shall occur from July 27th, 12:00 AM Roman Time (6.00pm US/Eastern,
July 26th) and end on August 1st, 12:00 am Roman Time (6.00 US/Eastern,
July 31st).

In the Comitia Populi Tributa:

Item I: Election of one Rogator

The candidates are:

Gn. Salix Galaicus - citizen since Kal. Ian. MMDCCLIV
P. Caelius Orestes - citizen since XIX a. d. Apr. MMDCCLIV
Q. Cassius Calvus - citizen since XVI a. d. Kal. Ian. MMDCCLV

Item II: LEX OCTAVIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS:

The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby amended to include
the following:

Patresfamilias and Matresfamilias shall have access to the
email addresses of all members of their gentes and applicants to
their gentes. They may obtain this information from the
web site, when a tool for viewing this is available, or from
the Censores.


In the Comitia Centuriata:

Item I: LEX SECUNDA OCTAVIA DE CENTURIATA:

This Lex is hereby enacted to set the number of centuries as required
by Paragraph II.E.2 of the Constitution of Nova Roma, as amended
by the Lex Octavia de Centuriata. In the event that the amendment is
not approved, this lex shall be ineffective.

I. The number of centuries shall be determined by dividing the number
of Assidui citizens by eight, rounding down. This calculation shall take
place every time that a reallocation of centuries is performed by the
Censores. If this calculation results in a number greater than 193, then
there shall be only 193 centuries. If this calculation results in a
number less than 51, there shall be exactly 51 centuries.

II. The Censores may determine the number of centuries in each class
by edict, as previously established by the Lex Iunia Centuriata. If
the Censores choose not to do so, then the same proportions already
in effect from the previous allocation shall be adhered to as
closely as possible, in order to preserve the relative sizes of
the classes. For purposes of this calculation, the century
containing the Capite Censi shall be considered outside of
any class.

III. The relative sizes of each class shall be initially set
as follows:

Class I: Twenty-Nine percent of the Assidui centuries.
Class II: Twenty-Four percent of the Assidui centuries.
Class III: Twenty percent of the Assidui centuries.
Class IV: Sixteen percent of the Assidui centuries.
Class V: Eleven percent of the Assidui centuries, plus one
century reserved for the Capite Censi only.

Valete,
M. Octavius Germanicus, Consul.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator