| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Ugly Nova Romans, please read |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:34:23 -0700 (PDT) |
|
I have tried, however the cameras break every time I
attempt to take a self portrait! I also attempted to
scan a hand drawn portrait, which resulted in a fire
that destroyed my artwork and the scanner.
I Guess it's for the best, because having my likeness
reproduced on the NR site would result in a dramatic
dropoff in new citizen applications, and mass
resignations. ;-)
L. Sicinius Drusus
--- gcassiusnerva <gcassiusnerva@cs.com> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I have just explored a bit in the album on the
> Nova Roma web site.
> And I am dismayed by what I see!
>
> Ok...I am dismayed by what I do not see. I do not
> see my fellow
> citizens. Well, not very many of them anyway. For
> example, the Gens
> Cassia page has only two pictures there. Cassius
> and Patricia.
>
> I am going to do my part by sending a picture of
> myself, which I can
> somewhat tolerate and does not make me gag too
> violently when I look
> at it.
>
> But fellow citizens---there has to be someone out
> there who is uglier
> than me! Please do not condemn me to being the
> ugliest Nova Roman in
> the album! After all, what have I done to you?
>
> So, if you are ugly, do you think you could scan a
> picture and send it
> in?
>
> If you are NOT ugly, but one of the bold and
> beautiful, you should
> also consider adding your picture, even though to do
> so would only be
> shameless bragging on your part, and we already
> jealously hate you
> enough as it is.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Ugly Nova Romans, please read |
| From: |
"augustus_julius_corius" <augustus_julius_corius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:10:52 -0000 |
|
THIS MAN Speaks like a politician!! Take lessonsa hahaha. Make him
Tribune....
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@c...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I have just explored a bit in the album on the Nova Roma web
site.
> And I am dismayed by what I see!
>
> Ok...I am dismayed by what I do not see. I do not see my fellow
> citizens. Well, not very many of them anyway. For example, the
Gens
> Cassia page has only two pictures there. Cassius and Patricia.
>
> I am going to do my part by sending a picture of myself, which I can
> somewhat tolerate and does not make me gag too violently when I look
> at it.
>
> But fellow citizens---there has to be someone out there who is
uglier
> than me! Please do not condemn me to being the ugliest Nova Roman
in
> the album! After all, what have I done to you?
>
> So, if you are ugly, do you think you could scan a picture and send
it
> in?
>
> If you are NOT ugly, but one of the bold and beautiful, you should
> also consider adding your picture, even though to do so would only
be
> shameless bragging on your part, and we already jealously hate you
> enough as it is.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Excepting the Emporers AND the Republicans |
| From: |
"augustus_julius_corius" <augustus_julius_corius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:24:05 -0000 |
|
The borders of the Roman empire in 395CE were borders that were
established after centuries upon centuries of bloodshed (as well as
422 years after the fall of the Republic itself!!!)... directly
contrary to the very Declaration we speak of, which preaches peaceful
aquisition of land... yet we aspire to those same borders that were
forecfully seized by war and atrocity! Indeed if we follow the same
letter of law throughout the Constitution and Declaration, our
property will only ever be the size of the Sevens Hills!
If on the question of the Edicts, Hadrian does not satisfy you...
Julius Caesar (WELL within the time of the Republic) resigned his
post os Questor in Spain in order to pursue an Aedile-ship, contrary
to custom. [Seutonius, Div. Cae., 7]
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@c...> wrote:
> "...our very own Declarion of Sovereignty states that
> our purpose is to regain our sovereign borders dating back to the
> time of 395 CE"
>
> The declaration actually lays claim to the borders of the empire,
but
> then immediately admits this is impossible and unrealistic, and so
> drastically limits territorial claims to a forum about the size of
the
> Vatican and that all places where Nova ROman events are held are
under
> a "dual sovereignity" for the duration of the event. Nova Roma is
> certainly NOT trying to restore the borders of the Empire.
>
> As for the Emperor Hadrian, while anyone is free to consider him
> divine, I do not believe Nova Roma accepts the deifications of
> Emperors as binding upon itself or upon the citizenry, and not as a
> matter of policy. I point this out because your use of all caps
{THE
> DIVINE EMPEROR....} seems to be implying that the fact that the
Roman
> senate deified him, this somehow makes him an authority for Nova
Roma.
>
> If I have misread or misunderstood your post, I will apologise in
advance.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] re: G. Cassius Nerva |
| From: |
"augustus_julius_corius" <augustus_julius_corius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:27:41 -0000 |
|
And No.... I did not imply that any of Haridrian's acts were binding
upon us. I simply capitolised him name to honor the spirit of man
much greater than myself....
And if it is a question of law: Our charter DOES state the time of
395 CE as our model... much LATER than Harian. This is an excellant
question you raise
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
socraticquestion@netscape.net |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:35:03 -0400 |
|
Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus Senatui Populoque Romano Novo S.P.D.
Quirites et Senatores et Magistratus Augusti
I have been an admirer of Nova Roma for nearly two years, in silence, watching Her from afar, admiring her accomplishments, hoping to learn from her errors and mistakes, but above all, wishing that She may be, as She has onto me, positively affected by whatever virtues I may have, and that she may make positive the multitude of vices it is known of me to have. However, in my supreme admiration, I have taken it upon myself to educate myself on the legislation of Nova Roma, dine so by reading incessantly the Tabularium, in which is the Lex Vedia de Magistratuum Aetate, which specifically states that one may not hold a Quaestorship, Aedileship, Tribunate of the Plebeians, nor any office of the Vigintisexviri, nor a Rogatorship prior to reaching the age of twenty-one. I do not disagree that this piece of legislation is of Roman tradition, in that our ancestors set age regulations on the attainment of offices, however, I do disagree that age restrictions should be put on the holding of office.
As is currently required by law, if one were to campaign for office as one of the Vigintisexviri and were only nineteen years of age, said one would have to first obtain the permission of both censors at the time of campaigning, and win a Senatus Consultum of at least two-thirds majority in said one's favor. Again, I do not disagree that the Senate would, by all means, know which members of the citizenry are and are not capable of performing the job functions entailed by whichever one may desire election to, however I would be the last to agree that it is feasible for one of the common people the attain a Senatus Consultum of such a magnitudinal vote as needed, without having first proving oneself worthy to the Senate. For some, you may say, this may be no hard task; for others though, it must be said, performing the duties and responsibilities of the office for which they wish to campaign is the only feasible way to show their value to the Republic. I would quite honestly compare mysel f to this one, in that the only feasible way for me to prove myself worthy of the Quaestorship for which I so painfully wish to be elected to, would to be to win such Quaestorship of the People, and to perform my duties to the best of my ability.
I would most readily agree that in its greatness, there are many people worthy and qualified for all our august magistracies, however, as a man of our great Nova Roma in my heart, I must also admit that some are more qualified than others. However, it should be said, that it is the People's contention which chooses the magistrates, should it not be the People's contention, then, which chooses who is and is not fit for an office? That is my question to you, august citizens: Should not the People choose who is qualified for an office, regardless to age? After all, age truly is just a number.
Semper Pro Patria. Semper Pro Populo.
--
Semper Sapiens et Cogitans, ut Cras Meliores Omnes Simus
Pro. Postumius Nero, Not yet a Citizen
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Ugly Nova Romans, please read |
| From: |
Marcus Vitellius Ligus <mvitelliusligus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 05:07:47 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve,
As you indicated, there are few photographs within the album. I will rectify this for myself, and appeal to all other citizens to do the same.
Unfortunately I will be unable to have traditional garb available, as I don't have anything yet. Much of my material is still in manufacture in the garage/armory. I will re-post a new photo as soon as I can get it completed.
Vale,
gcassiusnerva <gcassiusnerva@cs.com> wrote: Salvete Omnes,
I have just explored a bit in the album on the Nova Roma web site.
And I am dismayed by what I see!
Ok...I am dismayed by what I do not see. I do not see my fellow
citizens. Well, not very many of them anyway. For example, the Gens
Cassia page has only two pictures there. Cassius and Patricia.
I am going to do my part by sending a picture of myself, which I can
somewhat tolerate and does not make me gag too violently when I look
at it.
But fellow citizens---there has to be someone out there who is uglier
than me! Please do not condemn me to being the ugliest Nova Roman in
the album! After all, what have I done to you?
So, if you are ugly, do you think you could scan a picture and send it
in?
If you are NOT ugly, but one of the bold and beautiful, you should
also consider adding your picture, even though to do so would only be
shameless bragging on your part, and we already jealously hate you
enough as it is.
Gaius Cassius Nerva
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
"mcserapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:07:51 -0000 |
|
AVE POSTVMI NERO
I remind you that the Lex de Magistratum Aetate has been voted and
approved by the citizens themselves; so the citizens themselves chose
to set the minimum-age-requirement according any exemption to our
Censor's and our Senate's decision.
(Please, consider that I am still 20 years old, and for this reason I
had to withdraw my candidacy as Quaestor a few time ago)
VALE BENE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Italiae
Dominus Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressus
--------------
PROVINCIA ITALIA
http://italia.novaroma.org
--------------
ADMINISTRATIO AEDILIS PLEBIS CICATRIX
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/aediliscicatrix.html
--------------
GENS CONSTANTINIA
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/constantinia-en.html
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., socraticquestion@n... wrote:
> Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus Senatui Populoque Romano
Novo S.P.D.
>
> Quirites et Senatores et Magistratus Augusti
>
> I have been an admirer of Nova Roma for nearly two years, in
silence, watching Her from afar, admiring her accomplishments, hoping
to learn from her errors and mistakes, but above all, wishing that
She may be, as She has onto me, positively affected by whatever
virtues I may have, and that she may make positive the multitude of
vices it is known of me to have. However, in my supreme admiration, I
have taken it upon myself to educate myself on the legislation of
Nova Roma, dine so by reading incessantly the Tabularium, in which is
the Lex Vedia de Magistratuum Aetate, which specifically states that
one may not hold a Quaestorship, Aedileship, Tribunate of the
Plebeians, nor any office of the Vigintisexviri, nor a Rogatorship
prior to reaching the age of twenty-one. I do not disagree that this
piece of legislation is of Roman tradition, in that our ancestors set
age regulations on the attainment of offices, however, I do disagree
that age restrictions should be put on the holding of office.
>
> As is currently required by law, if one were to campaign for office
as one of the Vigintisexviri and were only nineteen years of age,
said one would have to first obtain the permission of both censors at
the time of campaigning, and win a Senatus Consultum of at least two-
thirds majority in said one's favor. Again, I do not disagree that
the Senate would, by all means, know which members of the citizenry
are and are not capable of performing the job functions entailed by
whichever one may desire election to, however I would be the last to
agree that it is feasible for one of the common people the attain a
Senatus Consultum of such a magnitudinal vote as needed, without
having first proving oneself worthy to the Senate. For some, you may
say, this may be no hard task; for others though, it must be said,
performing the duties and responsibilities of the office for which
they wish to campaign is the only feasible way to show their value to
the Republic. I would quite honestly compare mysel f to this one, in
that the only feasible way for me to prove myself worthy of the
Quaestorship for which I so painfully wish to be elected to, would to
be to win such Quaestorship of the People, and to perform my duties
to the best of my ability.
>
> I would most readily agree that in its greatness, there are many
people worthy and qualified for all our august magistracies, however,
as a man of our great Nova Roma in my heart, I must also admit that
some are more qualified than others. However, it should be said, that
it is the People's contention which chooses the magistrates, should
it not be the People's contention, then, which chooses who is and is
not fit for an office? That is my question to you, august citizens:
Should not the People choose who is qualified for an office,
regardless to age? After all, age truly is just a number.
>
> Semper Pro Patria. Semper Pro Populo.
>
> --
> Semper Sapiens et Cogitans, ut Cras Meliores Omnes Simus
>
> Pro. Postumius Nero, Not yet a Citizen
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
http://shopnow.netscape.com/
>
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
http://webmail.netscape.com/
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:34:03 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., socraticquestion@n... wrote:
> Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus Senatui Populoque Romano
Novo S.P.D.
>
> Quirites et Senatores et Magistratus Augusti
>
> I have been an admirer of Nova Roma for nearly two years, in
silence, watching Her from afar, admiring her accomplishments, hoping
to learn from her errors and mistakes, but above all, wishing that
She may be, as She has onto me, positively affected by whatever
virtues I may have, and that she may make positive the multitude of
vices it is known of me to have. However, in my supreme admiration, I
have taken it upon myself to educate myself on the legislation of
Nova Roma, dine so by reading incessantly the Tabularium, in which is
the Lex Vedia de Magistratuum Aetate, which specifically states that
one may not hold a Quaestorship, Aedileship, Tribunate of the
Plebeians, nor any office of the Vigintisexviri, nor a Rogatorship
prior to reaching the age of twenty-one. I do not disagree that this
piece of legislation is of Roman tradition, in that our ancestors set
age regulations on the attainment of offices, however, I do disagree
that age restrictions should be put on the holding of office.
Salve,
The age restrictions in the Lex Iunia de Magistratum Aetate were
approved by the citizens themselves. Some of which were most likely
under the age limits as Constitutionally anyone over 18 may vote.
In reality compared to the old Republic, Nova Roma's age
restrictions are quite liberal (if I may dare use the "L" word). In
the old Republic one had to be at least 28 to run for Quaestor while
in Nove Roma 21 will suffice. The youngest age for a Praetor was 31,
and 34 was the bare minimum for Consul. Since traditionally Censors
were of proconsular status and the 2 year minimum between terms of
office the youngest a Censor could be is 37. Considering the
historical age office the ages of 21, 25, and 27 are quite liberal
and would no doubt shock the ancients that we Nova Romans would
entrust our offices to such youth, but (gasp) women as well!
Beyond the political there is a practical reason for this as well.
Nova Roma is in addition to being a micronation it is also a legal
corporation. Those elected offices are officers of the corporation
and are required to be of age of majority in the macro-national
jurisdiction in which they live. Nova Roma being a international
organization and the age of majority varies from jurisdiction to
jurisdication. I am sure if there is a macronational jurisdiction
where the age of majority is greater than 21 I will be informed
quickly, but in general the oldest age of majority is 21 years. I'm
not sure, as I was not a citizen of Nova Roma at the time the Lex
Iunia de Magistratum Aetate was enacted, whether this practical
consideration was the reason for introducing this lex to the people
or not, but it makes sense from a legal corporate prospective.
Pax,
Quintus Cassius Calvus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Sodalitas Musarum still functioning? |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:50:18 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@c...> wrote:
> I think it is also worth mentioning that the people involved in the
> Sodalitas Musarum are artisitic geniuses. Works of brilliance and
> genius cannot be rushed or produced on a regular schedule. This may
> give the illusion that the sodalitas is inactive...but the reality
> certainly is that the people there are busy creating works of
> greatness whcih will appear in due time.
>
Salve G.C. Nerva,
That I can understand. There are times where I feel a Muse sitting
on my shoulder whispering into my ear, but usually she has to give me
a good swift kick in the backside before I start to work.
Photography with "digital re-mastering" is my prefer medium.
Pax,
Quintus Cassius Calvus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
"Amanda Bowen" <reason_prevails@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:49:50 -0500 |
|
>historical age office the ages of 21, 25, and 27 are quite liberal
>and would no doubt shock the ancients that we Nova Romans would
>entrust our offices to such youth, but (gasp) women as well!
Which leaves an ambitious and intelligent (if I may brag) 16 year old with
nowhere to go. Oh well :) I shall serve in other ways as best I may in the
meantime.
I've also not introduced myself. I hope to do so at a later point, perhaps
this evening. Do please excuse my sticking my nose in this matter.
(someday soon) Drusilla Cornelia Crispina Orbiana
(for now) Amanda Bowen
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Ugly Nova Romans, please read |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:18:35 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@c...> wrote:
> citizens. Well, not very many of them anyway. For example, the
Gens
> Cassia page has only two pictures there. Cassius and Patricia.
>
> I am going to do my part by sending a picture of myself, which I can
> somewhat tolerate and does not make me gag too violently when I look
> at it.
>
Salve Gaius Cassius Nerva
I will send a picture in after the Rogator election. I don't wish to
scare away what few supporters I may have <G>
Pax,
Quintus Cassius Calvus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Sovereignty |
| From: |
"Gerold Reimondo" <grj@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:56:06 -0500 |
|
Salvete omnes,
I am new to Nova Roma and have been mostly lurking here, so maybe I should
not speak on this subject - especially since I am not a citizen. However,
having read the Declaration of Sovereignty recently I was struck by a
several points.
1.) The document lays claim to HISTORICAL RIGHTS in the old Empire.
Historical rights can be different from territorial sovereignty. Example:
Native Americans, by treaty, retain historical rights to certain lands and
sites in the United States. These lands and sites still remain under the
territorial sovereignty of the United States government.
2.) The document makes quite plain that Nova Roma citizens live under a
dual sovereignty, living under the civil jurisdiction of the host nation and
under the cultural and spiritual jurisdiction of Nova Roma.
3.) The document makes territorial claims only over a site to establish a
central administration for the culture.
It seems to me that the above makes quite clear that Nova Roma aspires to be
a beneficial CULTURAL influence in the world, a cultural republic and empire
and not a territorial empire. This would be consistent with Nova Roma's
stated goal of restoring the best of the Roman civilization to the world
today, claiming only the minimum sovereignty necessary to accomplish that
goal. This is, incidentally, a goal I fully support since I believe the
world is in dire need of what Nova Roma has to offer.
The point of all this is that Nova Roma does not aspire (in my understanding
anyway) to the territorial acquisition of the lands of the old empire, but
to a nobler goal: the cultural / spiritual influence and authority of the
Roman Republic at its best. Compared to such a goal, territorial
acquisition seems to me a petty and unworthy endeavor.
Valete bene,
Gerold
< Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:24:05 -0000
<Subject: Excepting the Emporers AND the Republicans
<The borders of the Roman empire in 395CE were borders that were
<established after centuries upon centuries of bloodshed (as well as
<422 years after the fall of the Republic itself!!!)... directly
<contrary to the very Declaration we speak of, which preaches peaceful
<aquisition of land... yet we aspire to those same borders that were
<forecfully seized by war and atrocity! Indeed if we follow the same
<letter of law throughout the Constitution and Declaration, our
<property will only ever be the size of the Sevens Hills!
<If on the question of the Edicts, Hadrian does not satisfy you...
<Julius Caesar (WELL within the time of the Republic) resigned his
<post os Questor in Spain in order to pursue an Aedile-ship, contrary
<to custom. [Seutonius, Div. Cae.,
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
"pro_postumius_nero" <socraticquestion@netscape.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:49:20 -0000 |
|
Pro. Postmius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus Drusillae Corneliae Crispinae
Orbianae S.P.D.
Salve,
I can entirely agree with you. Noting your statement on your age, I'm
in the exactly same boat. Ambitious sixteen year old who can't do
anything, yet. Oh well, when my wait for citizenship finally ends,
maybe I can do something about my inability to stir things up around
here.
Bene Vale,
Pro. Postumius Nero, Not Yet A Citizen
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:09:00 -0700 |
|
Salvete!
These remarkable young people should be commended for their devotion to the
Res Publica. I have made numerous calls on our provincial list for
volunteers for various projects and met with little or no success at times.
Here are two cives begging to serve. If no one else has work for you, email
me privately (address at bottom), I'll find work for you!
Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Tribunus Plebis
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@attbi.com
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious
Nam ex parente meo et ex aliis sanctis viris ita accepi munditias mulieribus
laborem viris convenire omnibusque bonis oportere plus gloriae quam
divitiarum esse.
I have learned from my father and other holy men that women are suited to
elegance, while men to work; and that all good people should have more glory
than wealth.
Sallustius Crispus quoting Marius
----- Original Message -----
From: "pro_postumius_nero" <socraticquestion@netscape.net>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 10:49 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem
> Pro. Postmius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus Drusillae Corneliae Crispinae
> Orbianae S.P.D.
>
> Salve,
>
> I can entirely agree with you. Noting your statement on your age, I'm
> in the exactly same boat. Ambitious sixteen year old who can't do
> anything, yet. Oh well, when my wait for citizenship finally ends,
> maybe I can do something about my inability to stir things up around
> here.
>
> Bene Vale,
>
> Pro. Postumius Nero, Not Yet A Citizen
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: resignation |
| From: |
Ira Adams <iadams@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:29:11 -0500 |
|
Salve A. Hirtius
This is my first post in this Forum in quite a while, but I must correct
this error that seems to be repeated endlessly here. A Tribunus Plebis is
a magistrate of Nova Roma and a primary guardian of the Constitution of
Nova Roma. The contention that the office of Tribune is one which
concerns only the plebian class is in error. Don't confuse the traditions
of Roma Antiqva with the realities of Nova Roma. There are distinct
differences between the two.
The responsibilities of a Nova Roman Tribune extend beyond the interests
of the plebian class and thus the office holder and his/her actions are
matters of legitimate concern for everyone. In fact, the plebian class is
a fiction. The class distinction is an artificial one, created only for
cosmetic purposes in imitation of Roma Antiqva. Many have questioned
whether we should continue to maintain it, and the only real
justification for doing so has been that otherwise we couldn't have a
plebian Comitia and elect Tribuni Plebii. The down side of maintaining
the classes is that it is so artificial it supports impressions that we
are just a "let's pretend" role-playing group.
For my part, I have been becoming increasingly ambivalent about the class
distinction, but it is well on the way to becoming a Nova Roman tradition
(Ye gads! Someone on public radio is now prattling about "old Roman
tradition" as I type this - synchronicity strikes again!).
Vale,
Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
Senator and former Tribunus Plebis
On 7/19/02 10:32 PM Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com (Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com)
wrote:
>Honoured Senator
>I agree completely with your posting - you are right.
>Nevertheless, I want to point out again, that neither
>the resignation nor any action taken by a tribunus
>plebis is any other's business than plebeian. This has
>well been pointed out already. Of course, any comments
>or hints of those who have by far a bigger knowledge
>and experience within NR (than, f.ex., me) are
>extremely welcome.
>
>Valete bene in pacem deorum,
>
>
>
>=====
>A. Hirtius Helveticus
Alassea nan Elda
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:56:28 -0700 |
|
Ave Pro Postimus et Omnes,
Your assessment is not correct, and what is more is that you know it is not correct. Earlier this month you posted this same inquiry on the Nova Roma Laws list and I have spoken to you privately on IM and explained that there are quite a variety of functions you can serve and gain experience outside of the central government. Either you have forgotten the conversation or you have ignored it. So, for the benefit of our other younger citizens let me restate just some of the opportunites that are available.
1. You can serve your local provincia, just email your propraetor or Proconsul and inform him or her that you want to help. I am certain that most governors would be willing for extra assistance.
2. You can volunteer in a sodalitas, many of our sodalitas probably need assistance in a variety of ways from websites to administrative work.
3. You can email a central government magistrate to see if they need administrative assistance. Many of them probably need assistance in research, doing special projects or a variety of other tasks.
I hope you will see that there are still ample venues that you can find a way to serve NR.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma
----- Original Message -----
From: pro_postumius_nero
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 10:49 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem
Pro. Postmius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus Drusillae Corneliae Crispinae
Orbianae S.P.D.
Salve,
I can entirely agree with you. Noting your statement on your age, I'm
in the exactly same boat. Ambitious sixteen year old who can't do
anything, yet. Oh well, when my wait for citizenship finally ends,
maybe I can do something about my inability to stir things up around
here.
Bene Vale,
Pro. Postumius Nero, Not Yet A Citizen
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
"pro_postumius_nero" <socraticquestion@netscape.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:55:11 -0000 |
|
Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus Q. Cassio Calvo S.P.D.
Salve,
Agreed, there probably is some practical reason behind the Lex Vedia
de Magistratuum Aetate, however, I still disagree with it in that I'm
certain that a twenty-three year old could do the job of the American
President better than some of the ones whom have been elected, but
can't even campaign for it because of age. And in that I see a
problem. But, to make things short (I'm long-winded, if you haven't
noticed), I just have a problem with age being the determining factor
in so many things in life. And I know that most people disagree with
me on that, but that's just my opinion. I just wanted everyone who
cared to listen to know what I had to say about it.
Bene Vale,
Pro. Postumius Nero, Still Not A Citizen
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
"pro_postumius_nero" <socraticquestion@netscape.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:01:32 -0000 |
|
Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus M'. Constantino Serapione
S.P.D.
Salve,
I can understand that position, in that although you're closer to the
age requirement, were my citizenship applied for and approved before
the Ides of Iunius, I would be petitioning now the Censors and the
Senate to allow me to campaign for a Quaestorship. But, it is past
the Ides of Iunius, and my citizenship is still not approved, so that
said, I wouldn't be permitted to campaign for any office due to the
fact that I can't meet the six month requirement before elections, to
my dismay. Very well then, life goes on. I'll just have to try next
year, if I'm a citizen at that point.
Bene Vale Amice,
Pro. Postumius Nero, Depressingly Not A Citizen
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Sovereignty |
| From: |
"James LaSalle, Esq." <jlasalle@kc.rr.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:04:27 -0500 |
|
Xairete!
I agree with what you're saying. However, I see no problem with citizens donating land to the Empire, as a corporate enitity, if one exists. I myself plan on donating significant land to Nova Roma, if they ever approve my citizenship application.
kai errosqai,
James LaSalle
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerold Reimondo
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 10:56 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Sovereignty
Salvete omnes,
I am new to Nova Roma and have been mostly lurking here, so maybe I should
not speak on this subject - especially since I am not a citizen. However,
having read the Declaration of Sovereignty recently I was struck by a
several points.
1.) The document lays claim to HISTORICAL RIGHTS in the old Empire.
Historical rights can be different from territorial sovereignty. Example:
Native Americans, by treaty, retain historical rights to certain lands and
sites in the United States. These lands and sites still remain under the
territorial sovereignty of the United States government.
2.) The document makes quite plain that Nova Roma citizens live under a
dual sovereignty, living under the civil jurisdiction of the host nation and
under the cultural and spiritual jurisdiction of Nova Roma.
3.) The document makes territorial claims only over a site to establish a
central administration for the culture.
It seems to me that the above makes quite clear that Nova Roma aspires to be
a beneficial CULTURAL influence in the world, a cultural republic and empire
and not a territorial empire. This would be consistent with Nova Roma's
stated goal of restoring the best of the Roman civilization to the world
today, claiming only the minimum sovereignty necessary to accomplish that
goal. This is, incidentally, a goal I fully support since I believe the
world is in dire need of what Nova Roma has to offer.
The point of all this is that Nova Roma does not aspire (in my understanding
anyway) to the territorial acquisition of the lands of the old empire, but
to a nobler goal: the cultural / spiritual influence and authority of the
Roman Republic at its best. Compared to such a goal, territorial
acquisition seems to me a petty and unworthy endeavor.
Valete bene,
Gerold
< Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:24:05 -0000
<Subject: Excepting the Emporers AND the Republicans
<The borders of the Roman empire in 395CE were borders that were
<established after centuries upon centuries of bloodshed (as well as
<422 years after the fall of the Republic itself!!!)... directly
<contrary to the very Declaration we speak of, which preaches peaceful
<aquisition of land... yet we aspire to those same borders that were
<forecfully seized by war and atrocity! Indeed if we follow the same
<letter of law throughout the Constitution and Declaration, our
<property will only ever be the size of the Sevens Hills!
<If on the question of the Edicts, Hadrian does not satisfy you...
<Julius Caesar (WELL within the time of the Republic) resigned his
<post os Questor in Spain in order to pursue an Aedile-ship, contrary
<to custom. [Seutonius, Div. Cae.,
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] In Magistratuum Aetatem |
| From: |
"T. Cornelius Crispus" <centuriocornelius@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:38:27 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
About the age restrictions for holding office. I believe that in the
original post of this thread, a comment was made about age not really
mattering. I would beg to differ. I must agree that I have known some very
intelligent, even wise, sixteen year olds. My wife for one, when she was
that age. But I have to say that in the fifteen years plus since that time
she has become much more then intelligent, she has become wise.
There is a reason that age restrictions are placed for office in Nova Roma.
As has been stated previously there are legal reasons. I remember being
sixteen, and feeling looked down upon. But now I know that I was not ready
for more responsibility then I had. Enthusiasm is no substitute for
experience. But enough of sage wisdom.
There are things that a person can do in Nova Roma before the age of
Twenty-one. There is the newly forming Sodalitas Iuventutis Romanae. This
club for Nova Roma Youth will be for ages 9 - 21, and will be at least in
part governed by the membership. It will be devoted to teaching the youth of
Nova Roma about ancient Rome, as well as Nova Roma. An office in SIR will
certainly look good on your record when the time comes to run for an office
in Nova Roma government. There are young people in Nova Roma. My four kids,
aged 4 - 10 are all citizens. My six-year-old daughter, Helena, is
endeavoring, enthusiastically, to learn Latin with me. (Roman she calls it)
What I am trying to say is Drusilla Cornelia Crispina Orbiana et Pro.
Postumius Nero, don't sit on the outside looking in. Encourage your parents
to allow you to join Nova Roma. And then find something to do. Correspond on
the mail lists, nobody will frown on that input, continue to learn all you
can about government and law, become active in SIR. When your time comes to
be eligible to run for office you will be able to say, "Look at what I have
already done in and for Nova Roma. A vote for me is a vote for someone who
knows the job, and can do it." I know I would vote for someone like that!"
Vale,
T. Cornelius Crispus
PS
Crispina,
When you join Nova Roma you will be joining a most remarkable Gens, which
will welcome you with open arms. I know that for sure.
----- Original Message -----
From: <socraticquestion@netscape.net>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 10:35 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] In Magistratuum Aetatem
> Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus Senatui Populoque Romano Novo
S.P.D.
>
> Quirites et Senatores et Magistratus Augusti
>
> I have been an admirer of Nova Roma for nearly two years, in silence,
watching Her from afar, admiring her accomplishments, hoping to learn from
her errors and mistakes, but above all, wishing that She may be, as She has
onto me, positively affected by whatever virtues I may have, and that she
may make positive the multitude of vices it is known of me to have. However,
in my supreme admiration, I have taken it upon myself to educate myself on
the legislation of Nova Roma, dine so by reading incessantly the Tabularium,
in which is the Lex Vedia de Magistratuum Aetate, which specifically states
that one may not hold a Quaestorship, Aedileship, Tribunate of the
Plebeians, nor any office of the Vigintisexviri, nor a Rogatorship prior to
reaching the age of twenty-one. I do not disagree that this piece of
legislation is of Roman tradition, in that our ancestors set age regulations
on the attainment of offices, however, I do disagree that age restrictions
should be put on the holding of office.
>
> As is currently required by law, if one were to campaign for office as one
of the Vigintisexviri and were only nineteen years of age, said one would
have to first obtain the permission of both censors at the time of
campaigning, and win a Senatus Consultum of at least two-thirds majority in
said one's favor. Again, I do not disagree that the Senate would, by all
means, know which members of the citizenry are and are not capable of
performing the job functions entailed by whichever one may desire election
to, however I would be the last to agree that it is feasible for one of the
common people the attain a Senatus Consultum of such a magnitudinal vote as
needed, without having first proving oneself worthy to the Senate. For some,
you may say, this may be no hard task; for others though, it must be said,
performing the duties and responsibilities of the office for which they wish
to campaign is the only feasible way to show their value to the Republic. I
would quite honestly compare mysel f to this one, in that the only feasible
way for me to prove myself worthy of the Quaestorship for which I so
painfully wish to be elected to, would to be to win such Quaestorship of the
People, and to perform my duties to the best of my ability.
>
> I would most readily agree that in its greatness, there are many people
worthy and qualified for all our august magistracies, however, as a man of
our great Nova Roma in my heart, I must also admit that some are more
qualified than others. However, it should be said, that it is the People's
contention which chooses the magistrates, should it not be the People's
contention, then, which chooses who is and is not fit for an office? That is
my question to you, august citizens: Should not the People choose who is
qualified for an office, regardless to age? After all, age truly is just a
number.
>
> Semper Pro Patria. Semper Pro Populo.
>
> --
> Semper Sapiens et Cogitans, ut Cras Meliores Omnes Simus
>
> Pro. Postumius Nero, Not yet a Citizen
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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>
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] To The Senate and the People of Nova Roma |
| From: |
socraticquestion@netscape.net |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:47:51 -0400 |
|
Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus Senatui Populoque Romano Novo S.P.D.
Salvete Quirites Augusti,
I have, for some time, been considering my actions thus far with regard to my activities within Nova Roma. At the head of my thoughts, I have been most considering that I am not a citizen, nor have I ever been, of Nova Roma. That said, I would like to respectfully state that I must ,from now until such time as my citizenship is approved, minimize my activities with Nova Roma. It is my contention that I have, being that I am not yet a citizen, been involving myself unjustly and without right in the operations and other activities of Nova Roma. Therefore, until such time as I am a citizen, whenever that may be, I will be minimally active. I will continue my workings with those who request my assistance and otherwise, but I cannot and will not act as a citizen of Nova Roma, but as a foreigner. Should my assistance or anything else be requested, I would be most honored to help with anything in any way I can, but I cannot act in the interest of Nova Roma in the ways I have before. Also, until such time as I earn my citizenship, I, regretfully, must ask that I be referred to by my legal American name. Again, I regret this action, but I cannot justly and rightfully do otherwise.
Most Sorrowfully and Respectfully Submitted,
c/ENS Lester A. Jones,
Assistant Operations Officer,
Northwest High School, Cincinnati, OH
USNJROTC
__________________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Young Nova Romans |
| From: |
Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org> |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:47:00 -0400 |
|
I would like to suggest an additional way in which those too young to
serve in magistracies may serve Nova Roma. Our Web site includes
information on a variety of aspects of ancient Rome, but we would
welcome well-researched, well-written articles to supplement the
information already available. Choose an aspect of Roman life that
interests you and tell us about it! There are many knowledgeable Nova
Romans who might be happy to suggest resources for your research, and
the result would be a benefit both to NR and to the world.
Most of you who are under age are also students, and such research
projects may, under the right circumstances, also be applicable to your
studies. In addition, doing such work will help to enhance your
dignitas, so that when you are able to run for office, you will be more
likely to find fellow Citizens eager to support you.
May Minerva bless you!
-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org
|
