Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Beseen closing down
From:	StarVVreck@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:19:03 EDT

<PRE>Oh no, Beseen has been around almost as long as the internet has.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Popular Latin
From:	Marcus Cornelius Gualterus Graecus <gualterus@erudition.net>
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:57:32 -0400

Salve Claudius Salix,

> SLAVIC AND GERMAN
> Nowadays possess cases but the system is much reduced that the systems we
> find in ancient germanic dialects of the Roman Times or the language known
> as Old Slavonic (9th century). In fact, most eastern IE language present
> evidences that the cases will undergo probably the same fate that the cases
> of Latin

Actually, there hasn't been as much case simplification with eastern
slavic languages as there has been with other european languages. Old
Slavonic had six main cases, with occasional use of the vocative (only
for singular masculine and feminine, otherwise the nominative was used).
Modern Ukrainian has seven cases including the vocative and modern
Russian has six cases with a nominative that can be used as vocative.

Number has been simplified with dropping the double (Old Russian still
used the double), and the declensions have changed a little, but not
significantly (still 3-4 declensions, depending on whether you count the
Ukrainian e-stem and o-stem neuters as part of separate declensions).
Ukrainian seems to preserve a slightly more primitive morphology, but
both languages have definitely not undergone as much simplification in
the declension systems as many other european languages. I suspect it's
similar for Belorussian, but I don't know enough about it.

On a side note - and perhaps you can help in evaluating this conjecture
- but I would suspect that the simplification of grammar has notably
slowed since the mid 15th century and the invention of the printing
press. Putting languages into print would seem to me to lend much
greater momentum to the current grammar and impede changes that would
otherwise more easily occur in a language that was primarily spoken and
only occasionally put down on difficult-to-produce manuscripts. And,
this effect would be exacerbated by increased literacy, so change of
grammar should be even slower now than it was five centuries ago. I
don't know the history of enough languages to know how true it is, but
it seems reasonable. What do you think?

- M. Cornelius Gualterus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Psychology of Reenacting
From:	"effc3" <shamrock@cros.net>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:10:25 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@c...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> > or older who plunk down hundreds of dollars to purchase armor,
> uniforms, weapons, and tents, and go out reenacting---what is their
> motivation?

I've always wondered the same about Nascar fans or Fishermen who buy
boats that are nothing but holes in the water to throw money into.

> Ask a reenactor at an event and he will look very serious and
tell
> you that he is a living historian who wants to know what his
forbears
> went through, or that he is honoring hallowed war dead. And he
> believes every word he is saying! He is right of course, at least
in
> part. You can't reenact well without study of the drills and
uniforms
> use of weapons. Reenactors pride themselves on authenticity.

That may be true for some, but all of my friends and I we did it
entirely for the sport. Ther is something about lacing a guy or woman
in armor that just can't be duplicated. Likewise there's something in
discribably delicious about walking off a full shot from a rattan
braodsword that will be black and blue before sunfall. You tell
yourself you will never be caught off guard again!We knew that the
armor , weapons and techniques were not real or even relatively close
to what it woul;d have been like. Also none of us ever imagined
ourselves a some ancient hero saving Troy or slaying Harold at
Hastings. We did it for the sport.

> And I submit that when a man leaves his wife
> behind for a weekend instead of mowing the grass or helping her
with
> the house cleaning, that he is really *reeacting his childhood*! >
> Now don't reenactors pretty much like the same thing, in a vastly
> more sophisitcated {and expensive} form? Leaving the wife behind
and
> going out to play with guns and swords....It's a guys dream!

Not really I 've had my a%# kicked by female fighters before and gee
they were chemists and science fiction wriers that did study the
era , but didn't have any misgivings about the seriuosness of their
fighting.My wife handles a 8 foot spear pretty handily and yet she
has seriously studied the Bayeaux tapestry in an effort to increase
her knowledge of 11th.kneedlepoint.She does not think of herself as a
male warrior soon to be winging to Valhalla , but just a woman who
likes martial arts and can learn from the same group.In fact during
any kind of reenactment ( SCA,etc) where there is full contact the
assembled crowd , whether they are members or public spectators are
awed by the drama of non choreographed combat. Its that drama that
brings people that enjoy the history of that era together. I saw the
SCA grow from 3500 in 1972 to over 50,000 worldwide now. Perhaps you
are assuming that all re enactors march around dressed like soldiers
and do nothing . But that is far from the truth and unfair to those
that really enjoy the physical contact. That is one of the things I
object to with Nova Roma. Not enough people that do , but plenty to
write on computers ;)

>
> I wouldn't mind playing myself, but I cannot afford it and sadly
do
> not have the time. To join the ranks of Roman Reenactors under the
> Eagles and run around in a dress with a sword sounds like great
fun.
> Perhaps someday.....
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva

Next spring Gens Silvanius is holding Gladitorial games that will
feature full contact combat in the different forms of gladitorial
games. The general public will be welcomed to attend and fight. I
have plenty of swords and I'm sure we can find some armour to fit
you. We'll even let you play at being a gladiator , since its just
fun and its your right! ;)

Ambrosius Silvanius Virbius


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latina sine Flexiones
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:24:29 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,
I Think there is room for both styles of Latin. Our
Constitution and Leges should be in Classical Latin,
while day to day conversations would be in a Vulgur
Latin.

If English had a "Classical English" that was used
like Classical Latin was, it might be the style that
was used in Shakespere, or the King James version of
the Bible. This style would be used in religous
services, in formal lititure, in the courts, and other
formal sittings, while modern English would be used in
newspapers, on the internet and day to day
conversation. I'm sure that our bilingual citizens can
think of examples of how other languages might have a
"Classic" form that was only used for formal
occasions.

--- Claudius Salix Davianus <salixdavianus@terra.es>
wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> My opinion is that the difficult part of use
> correctly any language is to learn massive
> vocabulary. If we try to learn Latine sine flexio or
> Classical Latin the problem is basically the same.
> The grammatical subtilities are easy learned with
> the practice indeed. If we look at the inscriptions
> of Pompeii or at the commedies of Plautus we see an
> style of Latin that easily can be understood ... I
> think that this popular Latin is the language that
> we must promotionate in NR (not the subtilities of
> the stylye of Horatius or Lucretius).
>
> Cl. Salix Davianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Announcement: New Citizen Application is Bilingual
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:19:46 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete Cives,

Today, after much effort by the Curator and Translators, the New Citizen
Application (http://www.novaroma.org/bin/apply) is now multilingual.

This is more difficult than most translation projects because this
program generates highly variable dynamic pages and retains state
between invocations (i.e., remembers what it was doing). With the
old architecture, it was not possible for internal messages (such
as error messages, or statements about whether a gens is open or closed)
to be available in multiple languages; this necessitated a complete
rewrite.

Currently, it is available in English and Portuguese; other languages
will follow within days.

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: re-enacting
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:30:20 -0400

On Wednesday, August 21, 2002, at 02:54 PM, Nerva wrote:

> Now don't reenactors pretty much like the same thing, in a vastly
> more sophisitcated {and expensive} form? Leaving the wife behind and
> going out to play with guns and swords....It's a guys dream!

I think it's more than playing, although it is fun, and it's more than a
guy thing, though it is fun for guys. I've enjoyed learning about
various aspects of Roman culture through making and wearing Roman
costume, staging Roman event (such as our wedding and Roman Market Day),
and interacting with others, both male and female, who share the same
interest. I know there are many re-enactors in Nova Roma and I for one
welcome and enjoy their presence. Many of them are serious students of
historical fabrication techniques whose practical knowledge far
surpasses that of scholars in the field.

I've also been active in the Society for Creative Anachronism, which in
my area includes more women than men!

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Psychology of Reenacting
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:51:45 EDT

I believe that the mind of the reenactor can be as complex and as simple as
you describe but there is another reason that you missed. Many of us
reenactors are also seeking to develop and achieve "the perfect moment."
This perfect moment is when you sink yourself so much into first-person and
the surroundings are just right that for a very, very brief period of time,
you feel like you are back in time.

My perfect moment came at the 140th Anniversary of the Battle of Shiloh in
April of this year. It was very late in the evening and my comrades and I
had been sitting around the fire, sipping coffee (& a little whiskey),
smoking our pipes, and singing old songs. The sky was crystal clear with
myriad stars above us and the night very cold. A reenactor who looked just
like General Sherman walked by and we rose to salute him. He returned our
salute and passed on. There were no modern sounds in our hearing and for
just one "perfect moment" it was April 5th, 1862 and I was a private soldier
in the Army of the Republic.

Valete,

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
(aka Pvt. Patrick Owen, 9th KY Volunteer Infantry, Co. B)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Reenactments
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:25:11 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

Though I have never been a part of a reenactment group, I sure
appreciate their work and efforts. They are a great learning tool for
all of us. Over the last few years I've seen history documentary
films using these groups to demonstrate ancient and modern battles;
everything from Governor and General Seutonius Paulinus quelling the
Boudiccan rebellion in Britannia to a mortar and artillery
demonstration by American civil war groups in the US. Think how
boring our educational tools would be with only drab pictures,
narration and no action scenes at all. Also the costs to the
dedicated people must be staggering - I noticed that a Roman
Legionaire's outfit with helmet, armour swords etc is over 2500.00
US. I don't know about civil war attire but their weaponry would be
very valuable, a total 15th century peak of the Knight's armour chain
mail or plated armour is equal to the down payment on a house in
North America!

Lots of people appreciate your efforts. Keep up the good work and
continue to educate all of us!

Valete bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Psychology of Reenacting
From:	tiberius.ann@bluemail.ch
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:05:11 +0200

Salve,

> Now don't reenactors pretty much like the same thing, in a vastly
>more sophisitcated {and expensive} form? Leaving the wife behind and
>going out to play with guns and swords....It's a guys dream!

I don't see why I should leave my wife behind!!! She is just as fanatic
about reenacting as I am, maybe even a bit more so!!! By the way, not all
reenactors go out to play with guns and swords!!!! I am a member of the
only reenactment group in the whole world, which is set ONLY on civilian
life!!!
(see: http://www.cives.ch.tt)

It's not just a guys dream, it's everybodys dream!!!!

Curate ut valeatis,
Tiberius Annaeus Otho

Lictor curiatus
Translator linguae Germanicae
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Came back
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:42:32 +0200

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

My holydays in Corfou are finished and now I'm here to re-start my work as
Quaestor and Propraetor remembering the sun and the sea of the Greece.

Nova Roma have been the only reason for my coming back in Italy ;-) and I'm
ready to finish the work about Romani Ludi of our Illustrus Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.

I'm very glad the European Nova Roman Metting have been a success. I'm very
displeased I couldn't be in Tongeren, as Serapio said me you had funny and
wonderful days.
I hope you like the little gift by the Provincia Italia, a mix of roman
music and the official provincial hymn.
I present officially the candidacy of Bologna (Italy) for the european
meeting 2003 !!!

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Reenactments
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 04:23:59 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "miguelkelly15" <mjk@d...> wrote:
<<Also the costs to the
dedicated people must be staggering - I noticed that a Roman
Legionaire's outfit with helmet, armour swords etc is over 2500.00
US.>>

Bingo. And my wife has decided to start looking for a townhouse!

American Civil War gear is less expensive because there are lots of CW
reenators and several companies that manufacture the stuff, so the
costs are lower. I got to visit L. Equitius Cincinnatus and the Legio
XX when they had a get-together, and they make a lot of their own
items. If you don't have metal working or woodworking skills you can
buy the items from someone who will make it for you. They also have
some "loner gear" for those who have not yet assembled a full kit.

Nerva


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Psychology of Reenacting
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 04:15:56 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> Many of us
> reenactors are also seeking to develop and achieve "the perfect
moment."
> This perfect moment is when you sink yourself so much into
first-person and
> the surroundings are just right that for a very, very brief period
of time,
> you feel like you are back in time.
>

Salve,

I know exactly what you mean! Those kind of moments are rare, but
they are great when they happen! I never had one in my reenacting
time, but I did have two in community theater productions when for a
second or two it ceased to be a stage play and seemed real. Are you
going to Antietam this fall?

Nerva


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Reenactments
From:	Marcus Vitellius Ligus <mvitelliusligus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 06:01:25 -0700 (PDT)

gcassiusnerva wrote:

If you don't have metal working or woodworking skills you can
buy the items from someone who will make it for you.

As for me...making certain items doesn't take a great deal of skill, and the skills necessary are very often self taught easily. For example, I have managed to manufacture 3 items of my own; My Balteus (actually still in work), my Tunica, and a pair of caligae. My scutum and Lorica Hamata are still in the manufacturing stages. The biggest enemy of the self manufacturer is time, second is money. I have found it is a little less expensive to manufacture yourself whatever you can, and some things are downright easy. The Tunica is probably the easiest to manufacture. Other items are much metter to purchase if you lack the aforementioned skills. Scutum Bosses, Lorica Segmentata (although I have a source for a kit that you put together), and obviously the weapons (Gladius, Pugio, Pilum, etc) My impression is a 1st century Legionairre. Perhaps in the future (time and money permitting) I'll attempt to do a late period cavalry impression. The horse if probably going to kill me though...:)

Vale,

M. Vitellius Ligus
Optio, Legio III Avgvsta
Paterfamilias, Gens Vitellia, Nova Roma
Praefectus Fabrum, America Austrorientalis, Nova Roma

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: About Chariot Races
From:	"mcserapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:35:53 -0000

AVE SENATOR QVINTE FABI MAXIME

> If you could show me the primary source(s) for this statement, I'd
appreciate
> it. And please do not use Tertullius. If you, do you have misread
his
> statements.

Sorry for answering only now: I was rather busy.
Unfortunately I can't mention the *primary* source, as that posting
was composed of several articles found by Caius Curius Saturninus and
myself.

The sentence was from the article from the vroma.org -site. In the
article it says:

"Origins: Possibly the oldest spectacular sport in Rome, chariot
racing dates back at least to the sixth century BCE. It was quite
popular among the Etruscans, an advanced civilization of non-Italic
people who for a time dominated the area around Rome and contributed
greatly to many aspects of Roman civilization. We can also see
depictions of chariot racing among the Lucanians of Sicily in the
fifth century BCE. Among these peoples, races were associated with
funeral games, and in Rome too they had religious ties, particularly
to the chariot-driving deities Sol (the sun) and Luna (the moon), and
to a god called Consus, an agricultural deity who presided over
granaries. Originally chariot races (ludi circenses) were held only
on religious festivals like the Consualia, but later they would also
be held on non-feast days when sponsored by magistrates and other
Roman dignitaries."

So from this we can read that it was amongst the Etruscans and
Lucanians with whom they were funeral rites and that the races had
the religious meaning also for the Romans.

Please, could you quote that passage by Tertullianus that one could
misread and explain which is its right interpretation? I don't know
it and, since you spoke about it, I would like to know something
more. Thank you!

VALE BENE
Manius Constantinus Serapio


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Translation - Lex Cornelia de Censo into Portuguese
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:40:06 -0300 (ART)

Salvete omnes,

This is the translation number (I don�t remember more the numer) into Portuguese, Lex Cornelia de Censo. A html version can be find on my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/trad/lexcorneliac.html

LEX CORNELIA DE CENSO

Obediente a Constitui��o de Nova Roma (II.A. 4 and IV.A.1.b) a seguinte lei � desde j� promulgada para determinar o n�mero exato de cidad�os que perfazem Nova Roma.
I. Um Censo de todos cidad�os de Nova Roma deve ser feito a cada 2 anos. Ser� de responsabilidade dos Censores.
II. O Censo de Nova Roma durar� por um per�odo de 8 semanas, e precisa ser completo nos Idos de Setembro. O come�o e fim do per�odo do censo ser� anunciado pelos censores no website de NR, listas oficiais e nos grandes foruns. As listas oficiais est�o atualmente localizadas em nova-roma@yahoogroups.com and NovaRoma-Announce@y...
A Notifica��o tamb�m dever� ser publicada no Mural de Nova Roma.
III. O Censo avaliar� o seguinte:
A. Cidad�os ativos que n�o necessitam serem contactados pelos censores para determinar se est�o a parte de Nova Roma:
1. Aqueles cidad�os que votaram na �ltima elei��o principal (em Dezembro) ser�o considerados "censi."
2. Aqueles cidad�os que pagaram impostos para o ano corrente ser�o considerados "censi".
3. Paterfamilias que responderam com sucesso ao registro anual da Lex Cornelia de Tabulis Gentium Novaromanarum Agendis dever�o ser considerados �censi�.
4. Quem tornou-se cidad�os durante o ano corrente ser� tamb�m considerado "censi".
IV. Cidad�os inativos s�o aqueles cidad�os que falharam em cumprir ao menos uma das condi��es em IV A da constitui��o. Os censores tentar�o algum procedimento para contactar os cidad�os inativos. Estes ser�o aqueles que necessitar�o serem contactados pelo Censo Nacional. Os seguintes m�todos ser�o usados pata contactar cidad�os inativos:
A. Lista de Email geral. No m�nimo duas tentativas devem ser feitas para contactar o cidad�o desta maneira.
B. Email Individual. Se o email de um cidad�o retorna como inv�lido da lista de email, os censores dever�o enviar um email individual para verificar se n�o h� problema com algum filtro.
C. Liga��es telef�nicas. Se um cidad�o est� inalcan��vel devido a um email inv�lido, o censor dever� tentar contact�-lo por fone. Isto pode ser efeito em n�vel provincial sob dire��o do censor se poss�vel.
D. Carta. Cidad�os "Inativos" que s�o inalcan��veis por email ou liga��o telef�nica dever�o receber uma carta dos censores. Isto tamb�m pode ser feito em n�vel provincial se poss�vel. A carta deve ser respondida para qualquer endere�o oficial de NR como especificado pelos censores. A resposta deve chegar aos censores antes dos Idos de Setembro.
O endere�o oficial de toda correspond�ncia novoromana �
Nova Roma
P.O. Box 1897
Wells, ME 04090
A �poca da aprova��o desta lei, o endere�o acima � o endere�o oficial, caso mudar no futuro, o novo deve ser utilizado.
E. Um �banner� e �link� tempor�rio ser� posto no 'website' principal de NR durante o censo, onde os cidad�os podem cumprir com a informa��o do Censo.
V. Todas comunica��es pertinentes ao Censo ser�o gravadas na base de dados do �Website� de Nova Roma, a URL pela qual ser� especificado pelos censores no come�o do per�odo de registro ser� especificado pelso censores. As informa��es dos cidad�os ser�o registradas nesta base pelos censores, seus assistentes apontados ou por cidad�os individuais.
VI. Nos Idos de Agosto, os Censores postar�o uma lista no forum oficial de Nova Roma dos cidad�os que falharam em responder ao censo.
VII. Se um cidad�o falha em respoder �s tentativas de contato, n�o ser� mais considerado cidad�o de Nova Roma. Seu nome ser� tirado do Album Civium e se ele/ela � um paterfamilias/materfamilias os censores ir�o realizar pela Constitui��o qualquer apontamento de paterfamilias se necess�rio. Contudo, os censores a sua discri��o podem renunciar a este direito se ambos sentiresm que h� causas leg�timas para o cidad�o permanecer incomunic�vel.
VIII. Se um cidad�o sabe que um per�odo extenso de indisponiblidade vai coincidir com o censo, ele pode contactar os censores em at� 3 meses antes do censo e come�ar a informar sobre seu status de atividade e que deseja ser contado pelo censo. Este contato ser� considerado pelos censores como tendo cumprido a obriga��o de cidad�o de responder ao censo. Procuradores n�o ser�o permitidos durante o censo.
IX. Um ex-cidad�o pode apelar ao Senado para ter sua remo��o reconsiderada. Este pedido deve ser feito aos c�nsules dentro de 90 dias depois da remo��o do cidad�o do Album Civium. Dois ter�os dos votos do Senado s�o necess�rios para ca�ar a decis�o dos censores.
X. Um relat�rio deve ser providenciado pelos censores dos custos da condu��o do censo. Estes custos ser�o inclu�dos no or�amento apenas nos anos em que houver censo. A verba que ser� destinada ser� decidida pelo Senado de Nova Roma.
XI. O primeiro censo se iniciar� no Consulado de Marcus Octavius Germanicus e Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (2755 AUC)

Aprovado pelo Com�cio das Tribos Populares em 05 de Junho de 2755, Sim: 25; N�o: 5

Valete,

L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.

Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html

Se de �cio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,

Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...

Satira Quarta, Hor�cio

---------------------------------
Yahoo! PageBuilder - O super editor para cria��o de sites: � gr�tis, f�cil e r�pido.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] REMINDER: The deadline (1st of September) and the regulations for
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:37:13 +0200

REMINDER - REMINDER - REMINDER

Salve Quirites!

Once again I announce the regulations for "the Ludi Romanii Cultural
Award" (LRCA). Please send in your contribution before the deadline
of the 1st September!

Regulations

1) The literary award, "the Ludi Romanii Cultural Award" (LRCA) is
supported by Nova Roma and organized by the Cohors Aedilis of Senior
Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus. It is open to all the
citizens of Nova Roma. The task of the contest is to write a text
(poetry or novel) about the glory of Rome or Nova Roma. The theme
will be:

- ancient roman victories
- roman wars
- ancient and modern great heroes
- links by the glory of Rome and Nova Roma
- our roman origins
- and other great accomplishments.

2) The Award is open to single participants or to groups composed of
a maximum of 5 citizens. Each participant or group of participants
can participate with just _one_ work. It isn't allowed to be a member
of a group and participate as a individual at the same time. The
contributed work must be in English, with a maximum of 500 words.
These kinds of works are accepted: novel, poem, drama, tragedy,
comedy.

3) Each text must have the following facts about the participant(s):
Nova Roman name, real name, Nova Roman Provinceage, e-mail address.

4) The deadline to send own work is 1st September, 2002 (2755
a.u.c.), by e-mail to sacro_barese_impero@libero.it [Franciscus
Apulus Caesar] with the subject "LRCA.".

5) The texts will judged by a Jury composed by the four highest
Magistrati of our beloved Res Publica, the two Consuls and the two
Censors of Nova Roma and the Procurator Academia Thules:

- Senior Consul Illustris Marcus Octavius Germanicus
- Junior Consul Illustris Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
- Senior Censor Illustris Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
- Junior Censor Illustris Caius Flavius Diocletianus
- Procurator Academiae Thules Caius Curius Saturninus

Each judge in the jury shall value each work following this table of judgement:
- Contents (0-10 points)
- Roman historical references (0-10 points)
- Language (0-5 points)
- Poetry and dramatization (0-5 points)
- Romanitas and roman values (0-10 points)

5 a) The points from all judges are summarized and this sum will
decide who will win.
5 b) The judgements of the jury are un-impugnable.

6) The winner of the Romanus Cultural Award wins the right to have
her/his/their work dramatized in the next Ludi - Ludi Victoriae, the
text will be published at the Cohors Aedilis Website - Section Ludi
and at the Main Mailing List of Nova Roma and as a virtual Diploma.

7) The texts will be archived by the Ludi organization. The
participants give the copyrights of their text to Nova Roma accepting
this regulation. This Regulation is accepted by taking part of the
"the Ludi Romanii Cultural Award" (LRCA).

8) The winner shall be announced on the Cohors Aedilis Website -
Section Ludi and at the Nova Roman Main Mailing List at September 9,
2002.

Informations:
- Ludi Romani c/o Cohors Aedilis - Section Ludi:
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi
- Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus: tjalens.h@telia.com
- Quaestor Franciscus Apulus Caesar: sacro_barese_impero@libero.it
--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"

************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
NovaRoma-Announce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"

************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New PC game
From:	"Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa" <vipsaniusagrippa@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:31:50 -0600

Salvete

I just read the new issue of PC Gamer and it appears there is going to be an
MMORPG called Imperator. It is set in an alternate future where the Roman
Empire never fell.

C.Vipsanius Agrippa

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: LETS STICK WITH CLASSIC LATIN! NO ALTERNATIVES!
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:32:57 +0000

Salvete omnes:

True, all languages have a lexicon of obscenities, but it is not
standard every day speech.

Do you realize that there are people in America who cannot put a single
sentence together without punctuating it with one or more of a string of
obscenities, such that, frankly, I feel ashamed to repeat even in quote. It
is an every day standard to many people that has prolifirated into
literature and the "arts" , and that is a degradation of culture and
language.

The reason for it is that we live in a consumer society where money
making, no matter the means, is the name of the game. And the means of
communication found out that shocking people makes money. The educational
level is so low that makes it easy to shock, but soon it is not shocking any
longer and it becomes common currency, and both currents feed on each other,
and just keep them stupid because it is good for business.

That is opposite to culture which is refinement by defenition.

Then there is the thing about freedom and liberty which are constantly
confused with free rein. To be free does not mean to do as one pleases, and
that makes the difference between a civilized human being and a brute, or as
a roman would say a barbarian.

Valete

G. Galerius Peregrinator.

>From: "Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: LETS STICK WITH CLASSIC LATIN! NO
>ALTERNATIVES!
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:25:58 -0400
>
>Salve Quintus,
>
>With no offense intended to your ancestors, the sentiment that language or
>culture is deteriorating is as old as language and culture. These things
>don't deteriorate as much as the weights given to various things shift: For
>instance, concepts of civil liberties loosen (for the better, IMHO), but
>the exchange for that is that people feel freer to use certain types of
>language -- the result being, for someone who values discreet use of
>vulgarity (if at all), things get worse, while for someone who values
>cultural liberties, things improve.
>
>For my own part, I happen to agree with you that literature today lacks the
>finesse that it had a century ago, and that people are freer than they
>should be with obscenities. But the English of a century ago still exists,
>and if you want to limit yourself to it, it's still possible to do so and
>communicate well. As another posted indicated, there's room for both a
>graceful written language and a more vulgar spoken language, if people
>choose... that model is back up not just by English, but by the other
>literate cultures I'm aware of. Furthermore, the shifts that have taken
>place in English over the last century -- such as they are -- aren't
>inevitable in spoken languages. After all, Modern English has been spoken
>since Shakespeare's time, and yet the sudden burst in swearing has only
>really occurred in the last 50 years or so. That period also saw
>significant shifts towards the proper as well as the prurient, depending on
>the time period. Living languages shift here and there, good and bad...
>otherwise they're not living.
>
>Vale,
>Festus
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: About Chariot Races
From:	tiberius.ann@bluemail.ch
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:20:08 +0200

Salve,

I don't know if this is worth anything, but it is widely known, that in
Greek culture, games were held mainly if some illustrous person died! It
is therefore very probable, that in early Roman times, this was also the
case.

Valete, Tiberius Annaeus Otho

>-- Original-Nachricht --
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>From: "mcserapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
>Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:35:53 -0000
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: About Chariot Races
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>AVE SENATOR QVINTE FABI MAXIME
>
>> If you could show me the primary source(s) for this statement, I'd
>appreciate
>> it. And please do not use Tertullius. If you, do you have misread
>his
>> statements.
>
> Sorry for answering only now: I was rather busy.
>Unfortunately I can't mention the *primary* source, as that posting
>was composed of several articles found by Caius Curius Saturninus and
>myself.
>
>The sentence was from the article from the vroma.org -site. In the
>article it says:
>
>"Origins: Possibly the oldest spectacular sport in Rome, chariot
>racing dates back at least to the sixth century BCE. It was quite
>popular among the Etruscans, an advanced civilization of non-Italic
>people who for a time dominated the area around Rome and contributed
>greatly to many aspects of Roman civilization. We can also see
>depictions of chariot racing among the Lucanians of Sicily in the
>fifth century BCE. Among these peoples, races were associated with
>funeral games, and in Rome too they had religious ties, particularly
>to the chariot-driving deities Sol (the sun) and Luna (the moon), and
>to a god called Consus, an agricultural deity who presided over
>granaries. Originally chariot races (ludi circenses) were held only
>on religious festivals like the Consualia, but later they would also
>be held on non-feast days when sponsored by magistrates and other
>Roman dignitaries."
>
>So from this we can read that it was amongst the Etruscans and
>Lucanians with whom they were funeral rites and that the races had
>the religious meaning also for the Romans.
>
>Please, could you quote that passage by Tertullianus that one could
>misread and explain which is its right interpretation? I don't know
>it and, since you spoke about it, I would like to know something
>more. Thank you!
>
>VALE BENE
>Manius Constantinus Serapio
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Tiberius Annaeus Otho

Lictor curiatus
Translator linguae Germanicae
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Using Classical Latin, a clarification on my part!
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:58:43 +0000

Salvete omnes:

Friend, don't be apologetic about it. The classical form is and should
be the standard. If not, then why not just learn French or Spanish,
instead. That it is difficult to learn is a given, but learning is work and
not play. The reward comes later.

Now, one problem about Latin is that too many people want to write, and
perhaps speak, like Cicero. Have you noticed sometimes that you cannot
understand the text even in translation? Can you imagine The New York Times
written in a Shakespeare English? And on the other extreme there are those
who transcribe their own native language sintax and form over Latin, and
that is wrong, too. Things must be put in proper context.

If a community of Latin is to come into being, the classical form will
be used , but soon a spoken latin, different from the classical , will come
about, and it will likely resemble in some aspects the Vulgar Latin of
classical times. That is, neutral gender will be discarded, and priorities
given to first and second declensions..etc..

As to borrowings; you may have noticed that whenever a new technology
comes about and they need a name for it, the look it up in Latin and Greek.
The Romans, as you know, borrowed heavily from the Greeks, too.

It is not sacrilege to borrow. It is when borrowing becomes pretentious
that is the problem. The french "weekend" and "marketing", as an example,
make no sense to me, and examples abound in other languages, too. Somebody
remarked that the Romans did not have pianos. In my view, that is a word
that makes perfect sense to borrow. I'd call it pianum, but I suspect most
would preffer pianus. However, I have seen the word clavichordium being
used, and that sounds fine, too.

Valete

G. Galerius Peregrinator.

>From: GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Using Classical Latin, a clarification on my part!
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:28:49 -0700 (PDT)
>
>SALVETE OMNES! When I stated that we should stick with
>Classical Latin language, what I was especially
>refering to was in regards to saying our prayers and
>rites in classical Latin! I would not be against an
>updated Latin if it ever became a spoken language
>again. But for speaking to the Gods in prayer, or
>whenever we perform a rite, I strongly believe it
>should be in classical Latin! VALETE! FRATER GAIVS IVLIANVS
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
>http://www.hotjobs.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: LETS STICK WITH CLASSIC LATIN! NO ALTERNATIVES!
From:	"Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:37:36 -0400

Salve G. Galerius Peregrinator

You write that the cause of widespread obscenity is a lowering of education
levels. If by this you mean the average education level has gone down, I
must heartily disagree. The percent of people who have acquired a high
school education in the United States is much higher now than it was 100 or
200 years ago. The percent of people who are literate has also increased in
that time. More people are educated, not fewer.

I'm not even sure if it's fair to see that the quality of education has gone
down in that time period. When the government first started providing public
education in this country, the purpose was not to teach knowledge, but to
make good, productive citizens and patriots. Actual education in the refined
arts took a back seat to civics, history, and government, while girls were
primarily educated in housekeeping and child-rearing.

Perhaps it's fair to see that the education level of the cultural high-end
of society has gone down -- that small percentage of the population who, two
centuries ago, would have been sent to private boarding school -- but that's
not the same thing as saying the average education level has gone down.

Also, I disagree that consumerism and shock-culture always go hand-in-hand.
On the one hand, there was a period of rapid economic growth which caused
the American Great Depression, during a time period when American culture
was very repressed. On the other hand, for example, right now I'm listening
to a CD by Jello Biafra, one of the most deliberately shocking members of
his generation, and he's far from rich. What sells is what people will buy:
In Shakespeare's time, that was bear-baiting; in Iulius Caesar's, it was
gladitorial combat; these days, it's people swearing. Of the three, I'll
choose swearing. (I don't have a problem with combat per se, it's the part
about killing combatants for amusement I could do without.)

To be free *does* mean doing what one pleases, so long as it brings no
physical harm to others. To be free means making the choice to be civilized,
rather than having civilization forced upon you. If people wish to be
barbarians, so be it... they can choose to do so, and we can choose to avoid
them.

Vale,
Festus

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: LETS STICK WITH CLASSIC LATIN! NO ALTERNATIVES!

Salvete omnes:

True, all languages have a lexicon of obscenities, but it is not
standard every day speech.

Do you realize that there are people in America who cannot put a single
sentence together without punctuating it with one or more of a string of
obscenities, such that, frankly, I feel ashamed to repeat even in quote. It
is an every day standard to many people that has prolifirated into
literature and the "arts" , and that is a degradation of culture and
language.

The reason for it is that we live in a consumer society where money
making, no matter the means, is the name of the game. And the means of
communication found out that shocking people makes money. The educational
level is so low that makes it easy to shock, but soon it is not shocking any
longer and it becomes common currency, and both currents feed on each other,
and just keep them stupid because it is good for business.

That is opposite to culture which is refinement by defenition.

Then there is the thing about freedom and liberty which are constantly
confused with free rein. To be free does not mean to do as one pleases, and
that makes the difference between a civilized human being and a brute, or as
a roman would say a barbarian.

Valete

G. Galerius Peregrinator.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Came back
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:53:50 +0200

Salve Amice!

At 10.42 +0200 02-08-22, Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:
>My holydays in Corfou are finished and now I'm here to re-start my work as
>Quaestor and Propraetor remembering the sun and the sea of the Greece.
>
>Nova Roma have been the only reason for my coming back in Italy ;-) and I'm
>ready to finish the work about Romani Ludi of our Illustrus Curule Aedile
>Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.

I am most happy to have You back at my side in Nova Roma. I know that
You have rested and am ready for new fantastic work within our
beloved Mother Provincia Italia and my Cohors Aedilis. Welcome back!

>I hope you like the little gift by the Provincia Italia, a mix of roman
>music and the official provincial hymn.

As I told You privately, we who were there were very happy to recieve
this CD. Hereby I publicly thank Prfovincia Italia on the behalf of
"the othres". ;-)

>I present officially the candidacy of Bologna (Italy) for the european
>meeting 2003 !!!

Nothing will stop me from coming as long as You don't plan it for the
last weekend in July! See You there! I also hope to see many more
than in Tongeren in Bologna. We who were in Tongeren will come, all
of us! ;-)

>Valete
>Franciscus Apulus Caesar
>-------------------------------------------
>Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
>Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
>Scriba Curatoris Araneum

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"

************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:05:34 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Omnes,

the Roman archeological news at:

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/index.html

Valete,

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, acting Praefectus for France
French Translator

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] absentia
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:10:26 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Omnes,

I will be away from tomorrow until Wednesday morning for personnal reasons.
I can be reached on my handy at: +49 1607416574.

Valete,

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, acting Praefectus for France
French Translator

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 120
From:	"william wheeler" <holyconelia@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:08:11 +0000

RE Message: 9
�� Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:19:03 EDT
�� From: StarVVreck@aol.com
Subject: Re: Beseen closing down

<PRE>Oh no, Beseen has been around almost as long as the internet has.

MCF:
no Beseen only started in the late 80's
and i was on the net in 82 the thenet is about 7 years older then that./.

Marcus Cornelius Felix PontitffLictor CuriatusLegate America
Boreoccidentalis MinoreSacerdos Primus America BoreoccidentalisGens Sacerdos
CorneliaLUX ET CORNELIA AETERNA EST

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: LETS STICK WITH CLASSIC LATIN! NO ALTERNATIVES!
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:22:56 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

Eduaction in an interesting topic. It does varie from area to area,
some schools and institutions are better than others and grading
systems are often different.

I had a discussion with my teachers of 30 years ago and two of my
sisters in their 40's and 50's who went through school in the 50's,
60's, 70's. It seems in those days there was a heavier work load and
more subjects like the 3 rs, history etc. were compulsory -
especially grammar. In (Canada) if we wanted to be in the academic
stream, we had to take a foreign language through high school as
well. My courses looked like this for example in grade 10 - 12:
English (compulsory), History (compulsory) Math (algerbra, geom, trig
etc.)(compulsory), Chemistry (compulsory), physics(strongly advised)
Biology (compulsory), Geology, French, Latin. If you failed a
compulsory course you'd have to repeat the year unless you went to
summer school. If you were slow, the teachers were free to point that
out to you in front of the class. I could get into university with
these.I was looking at my parents school records from the 20's and
30's and it was tougher than my era of the 60's and 70's. Mom got
into McGill(Montreal)on scholarships but in her day Greek and Latin
were required for University.

Now after telling me about our heavier work loads years ago, my
sisters went on to say that our generation was creatively illiterate
on average. Today they are much better at teaching the kids better
problem solving techniques.They get more psycological help in school
to cope with personal problems. When I was a kid I had my 3:30 high
noon with the school bullies. I stayed in buttering up to the nun,
helping her clean the boards desks etc. Finally she said " Thanks but
go now! What is the problem?" Oh sister, I whined, the school bullies
await me outside!" "So this is what your help is all about eh?" She
grabbed the scruff of my neck and shoved me through the door RIGHT TO
THE ARMS OF THE BULLIES. " Face your problems you sniveling
coward!" , she yelled. So much for my psych help!

It was of course tough to learn computers. You just didn't click
one on and click a window. We had to punch those paper slips, learn
languages, know 1010 = 25 or whatever. The telegraph came out in the
1830's but many people found Morris code tough and didn't
telecommunicate from home until the talk phones came out. Anyway the
only gripe I have in North America with the current educational
systems is that their seems to be a great deemphasis on History,
basic grammar and geography in the public schools. I may be a little
biased here but its sad when many kids no nothing of Rome, ancient
times, or even who Hitler was. To quote " He who is born that does
not know what happened before him is to live forever as a child." -
Cicero.

Valete bene,

Quintus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: About Chariot Races
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:33:37 EDT

In a message dated 8/22/02 6:38:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mcserapio@yahoo.it writes:

> Among these peoples, races were associated with
> funeral games, and in Rome too they had religious ties,

Thank you. The Etruscan and Volscan vaults show chariot racing, but we
cannot be sure that they are involved in the person's funeral. He might have
been a sponser of a chariot.
This would be the equivalent of us breaking into a crypt today and finding a
picture of the 1968 Green Bay Packers and assumed they played at the fan's
funeral.

Rome NEVER used chariot racing to honor the dead. In fact the munus (duty)
came from the Oscans. The Romans appreciated the novelty and introduced it
into their culture.
Gentlemen, check your sources carefully.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: About Chariot Races
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:41:14 EDT

In a message dated 8/22/02 6:38:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mcserapio@yahoo.it writes:

> Please, could you quote that passage by Tertullianus that one could
> misread and explain which is its right interpretation? I don't know
> it and, since you spoke about it, I would like to know something
> more. Thank you!

"For of old, in the belief that the souls of the dead are appeased with
human blood, they used at funerals to sacrifice captives or slaves of poor
value whom they bought. Afterwards, it seemed a good philosophy to obscure
their impiety by making it a pleasure. So they found comfort for death in
murder of many by various means, by the beasts, by the races, by
the{gladiator}contests."
{Tertullius De Spectaculis, 12}

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ancient Mirrors
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:46:19 -0300 (ART)

Salvete,

Do someone have some information about the mirrors on the ancient times? The mirrors were made of metal and glass or only polished metal?

Valete,

L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.

Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html

Se de �cio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,

Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...

Satira Quarta, Hor�cio

---------------------------------
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: LETS STICK WITH CLASSIC LATIN! NO ALTERNATIVES!
From:	"Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:34:34 -0400

Salve Quintus,

For the record, 1010 binary = 10 decimal. =}

I grew up on the cusp of the home computer (I'm 34), so most of my cohort and I know both the bad-old-days of punchcards and DOS, and the modern days of GUIs and CD-ROMs. I feel that perhaps, right now, the computer is still new enough a toy for most people that it's dominating, instead of integrating, in the school system. For instance, when I went to school, the majority of things in print were fairly reliable. Perhaps they had author bias to them, but that's inevitable; I was also taught critical reading skills, so that I could tell when somebody was not as expert as they pretended. Today, the overwhelming bulk of the information on the Internet is tripe, both linguistically and factually. I've heard educators and Reconstructionists respond to this by throwing up their hands and rejecting anything on the Internet, but I think that's a faulty reaction: Instead, I feel the schools should learn how to teach students to pull the golden needles out of the haystack of nonsense that's the World Wide Web. Incorporating those methods into the pedagogical framework would be an act of integrating, and I do think some schools are learning those methods.

Also, I will readily blame the Internet for the spread of obscenity and vulgarity in the popular mind. Before the Internet, the majority of what was "in print" was either private mail or had gone through a publication filter of some sort. Now, if you want to type something, boom, you've typed it, it's on the Internet, it's as much "in print" as the thesis that some Graduate Student spent two years researching. And the Internet has also helped vanity publishing, so anyone with $400 can get a book published.

Unlike others in this dialogue, I don't see this spread as a permanent degradation of the language, but rather a shifting of it. Languages change over time; that's inevitable. That could just be the bias of my training, though (an MA/ABD in Linguistics).

Vale,
Faustus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Reenactments
From:	"Amanda Bowen" <reason_prevails@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:45:12 -0500

>very valuable, a total 15th century peak of the Knight's armour chain
>mail or plated armour is equal to the down payment on a house in
>North America!

True, which is why you don't see a lot of fully outfitted knights. Actually,
it is easier (and a lot less hot!) to wear just a brigandine (like most 15th
century archers) or even a hauberk and gambeson than it is to wear a full
set of Milanese plate. Roman Loricas are your friend :)

I dont know about anyone else, but for me the main benefit of reenacting is
that you get an appreciation for what it was like to live. It's also a great
learning expirience. Twenty academics can come up with 3000 theories on how
a clay vessel was made, but until you actually try the methods to see which
one comes out like the original, all of it is just talk.

Crispina
(and occasionally the above mentioned 15th century archer)

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Ancient Mirrors
From:	Pan144@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:03:10 EDT

<PRE>If my memory serves me right, mirrors were usually made of highly polished
bronze from the time of 18th Dynasty Egypt (around 1350 BCE) through the end
of the Roman Empire and beyond.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Ancient Mirrors
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:17:18 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Lucius Arminius Faustus <lafaustus@y...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
>
>
> Do someone have some information about the mirrors on the ancient
times? The mirrors were made of metal and glass or only polished
metal?
>
>
>
> Valete,
>
Salve,
>
>In many ancient cultures the mirrors were made of highly polished
metals. The Romans though really went out to make great mirrors in
all sizes from hand mirrors to great hall mirrors greatly decorated.
They used mirrors from erotic to security purposes. Wall mirrors,
sliding mirrors. They were made often of semi opaque or black glass;
somtimes polished phenacite (a translucent stone).

Source: Ancient Inventions - Peter James and Nick Thorpe
>
>
>
>
> L. Arminius Faustus
>
> Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.
>
> Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)
>
> Visit my office at
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html
>
>
>
> Se de �cio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,
>
> Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...
>
> Satira Quarta, Hor�cio
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! PageBuilder - O super editor para cria��o de sites: �
gr�tis, f�cil e r�pido.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 121
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:32:59 -0400 (EDT)

Master Peregrinator;

Whether you believe it or not, there are Euopeans in every port of call
around the Mediterranean, bordering the English Channel and in the
Baltic, whose flow of obsecities make the average American appear
positively saintly. I know, I've been there. However, anyone who
classifies a country of millions of people, by the few that he has seen
or heard, is not in my view, terribly clever. I do not class Spaniards
as foul-mouthed bullies even though I have seen such, because there are
special people in NR like Triumvir Astur, who is a real gentleman.

I do not class the British people as hard-core profanity abusers just
because of few od thier Submarine sailors can cuss a blue streak 3 city
blocks long. Similar examples apply to the French, Germans, Portuguese,
Greeks , Turks, South Americans, Australians, Japanese, and Philapinos
that I know, as wel as may other countries. Most are decent people.
Some, but certainly not enough for me to class the whole country by
thier behavior, use foul language, have bad habits, don't bath often,
and have mny other problems as well. However, I am not so simple-minded
as to class the whole country or a whole continent by the behavior of a
few.

In my view, the South American, Central American, and North American
peoples deserve better from you than a careless pen, and an
over-simplified insult based on a few members of that society..

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: LETS STICK WITH CLASSIC LATIN! NO ALTERNATIVES!
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:34:12 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Paul Kershaw" <brighn@y...> wrote:
> Vale,
> Faustus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Fauste,

That is a good explaination on how computers have changed our
systems.We had critical thinking in my day too but not till grade 12
and university level. By the way, I am rusty on my math (binary).
Yes, if I die sinfull I think my punishment will be an eternity of
calculus classes with a thick accented teacher!

Thanks for your response and views

Quintus Lanius Paulinus