Subject:	[Nova-Roma] [Fwd: Unable to deliver your message]
From:	Joanne Shaver <merlinia@comcast.net>
Date:	Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:07:29 -0400

Well, I finally figured it out. Read on...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Fundraising idea
From:	"Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa" <vipsaniusagrippa@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:13:41 -0600

Salvete

One idea for fundraising would be to join MBNA's Affinity Mastercard
program. I'm not exactly sure how the program works but I know of lots of
other non-profit organisations (Ducks Unlimited, Alberta Rugby, University
of Alberta Alumni Society, for example) that use this system. I believe
that a certain percentage of your spending on the card goes to the group. I
see these cards at work quite often. It helps raise money as well as
awareness of the cause.

Just a thought,

C. Vipsanius Agrippa


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:21:31 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: Michel Loos
To: NovaRoma
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes


On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 17:01, L. Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> <SNIP>
>
> >
> > I believe that, yes, the tax rate should be adapted to the various
> > macronational economic situations. I do not believe that the average NR
> > cive - who a) owns a computer and b) has the leisure time to put toward
> > what is essentially a hobby - would find it truly difficult to come up
> > with US$12, no matter where they live. That's just too much of a stretch
> > for me. Yes, there are going to be exceptional circumstances, but the
> > point is that they *are* exceptions rather than the norm.
> >
>
> One misconception here: internet access is in no way equivalent to
> having a home computer. Most use the computers at work/school for no
> cost (during lunch time etc.).
>
> In countries with a smaller number of computers, they are shared, the
> number of internet users here is much larger than the total number of
> computers and not all computers have internet access, far from that.
>
> Sulla: You are saying that most as in more than 50% correct? Can you please site your sources that more than 50% of Nova Roman citizens are students who only have use of a computer at work?
>

I don't know about NR citizens.

I was speaking of brazilian access to internet, and not specifically
about students. Even the clean-persons have access e-mails and access to
the internet on "corporative" computers.

For example here in the Chemical Institute of the USP, all employes (not
only the professors/researchers) have access to computer, many of them
earn some US$100/month and have no computer at home. The same is true
for some farmaceutical corporation I collabore with.

Sulla: So you have absolutely no documentation to back up what your saying with regards to Nova Roma. Thank you for admitting that.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 01:35:10 -0000

Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "miguelkelly15" <mjk@d...> wrote:
>
> That # 7 suggestion I gave about a lottery and wager betting on my
> survival time in the streets grows more lucerative hour by hour!


Nonsense, Quintus Lanius Paulinus, debate over taxation is as old as
government itself (psst, Brutus, how many times do I have to tell
you, hide the dagger). Oh where was I? <GRIN>

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Lacus Magni Website Update
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:36:51 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,
I would like to let everyone know that the amphitheater pics have been uploaded to the Lacus Magni site. http://blobbin.hypermart.net/Roman%20Festival.htm
Also, if anyone is interested in attending, please let me know. So far I have received one e-mail letting me know that 2 citizens will not be able to attend. If anyone would be able to attend that would really help me out.

Thanks,


Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:33:13 -0700 (PDT)

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
> >
> >
> >A used computer, for e-mail only and using an
> alternate OS (i.e. Linux)
> >wouldn't have to cost more than $100.
> >
> Salve,
> You would find it hard to get a machine more than
> a couple of years old with the disk capacity to run
> Linux, even in the unlikely event of trying to use
> it without graphics. I have acquired, for pottering
> about development purposses, a 486-based machine for
> €60. This only has 200MB hard disk. Linux won't look
> at less than 600, 850 with graphics. Even if you
> don't want half of its facilities, parts of it do so
> you get them anyway or it won't run. If you wanted
> on the cheap, I suppose DOS with or without Windows
> 3 or 95 would be the best.
> Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
>
>
Salve,
Here's a list of links for Mini Linux Distros That
will fit on your box.
http://www.elinux.com/articles/distros/min_flop.jsp


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	28 Aug 2002 03:08:42 -0300

Em Ter, 2002-08-27 às 17:33, me-in-@disguise.co.uk escreveu:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
> >
> >
> >A used computer, for e-mail only and using an alternate OS (i.e. Linux)
> >wouldn't have to cost more than $100.
> >
> Salve,
> You would find it hard to get a machine more than a couple of years old with the disk capacity to run Linux, even in the unlikely event of trying to use it without graphics. I have acquired, for pottering about development purposses, a 486-based machine for €60. This only has 200MB hard disk. Linux won't look at less than 600, 850 with graphics. Even if you don't want half of its facilities, parts of it do so you get them anyway or it won't run. If you wanted on the cheap, I suppose DOS with or without Windows 3 or 95 would be the best.
> Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
>

I am running linux on 486DX2 with a 300MB disk without any problem.
A full instalation requires some 80MB (without docs, but with X and
fvwm), and there are many mini-distros that run from a floppy.

Manius Villius Limitanus

>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:58:35 -0400

On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 01:17:57PM -0400, Paul Kershaw wrote:
> In different posts, Caius Minucius Scaevola, you wrote:
> "For that matter, you could pick up a discarded 386, put FreeDOS
> and the Crynwar TCP/IP stack on it, and have it cost you $0. What point
> are you trying to make?" and
> "In the original post, the implication was that the
> writer had a choice between paying the NR tax or eating for a week... I
> would say that anyone in _that_ tight a set of financial circumstances
> should certainly sell their computer."
>
> You may wish to go back and re-read the point of this thread. You're
> making numerous suggestions that are irrelevant to the original point.

You may wish to go back and review my statements in this thread as a
complete body rather than fragments quoted out of context for your own
purposes. You might also consider wrapping your text at less than 80
columns; this is considered polite behavior in email and newsgroup
exchanges (see IETF RFC-822, "STANDARD FOR THE FORMAT OF ARPA INTERNET
TEXT MESSAGES".)

> The original point was this:
>
> "People in countries such as Brazil, where income is significantly
> lower than it is here in the United States, find $15/year to be much
> more of a financial hardship than Americans do. For this reason, NR
> should consider a sliding-scale tax base, such as one where people in
> poorer countries can receive membership for $5/year, while American
> may have to pay $25/year for the same level of acknowledgement."

Erm, no. The original statement contained nothing more than a series of
rhetorical devices: strongly emotive language, anecdotal evidence,
appeal to pity, card stacking, and so on. This is not intended to
disparage L. Arminius Faustus in any way, but that is what the original
statement looked like to me.

At this point, I will probably hear something like "the above is really
what was meant!" from both yourself and the original poster. However,
that's not what was said, and *that* - the words that are posted here -
is the only thing that any of us have to go by.

I don't know if this will help - I have stated my position before, in
what I believe to be the clearest terms, and it doesn't seem to be
getting through - but I will try restating it just once more:

========================================================================
Based on the fact that the average cive in NR owns a computer and has
enough leisure to pursue what is essentially a hobby, I consider US$12
to be a trivial amount in this venue.
========================================================================

Separate from my point but tangent to the discussion at hand, I also
believe that a sliding scale, based on something like the CIA Worldbook
numbers, would be more equitable than the current flat rate.

> This is why, when you began talking about computer prices, the
> response was (basically), "Well, yeah, but not everybody has a new
> computer." For that matter, many *Americans* who have a presence
> on-line don't own a computer: Some of them live in houses with others
> who do, especially college-age adults, while others use public
> libraries. Your thread about the price of computers is only tangential
> to the issue.

Of course. It was intended to illustrate my point; since it is not a
central concept, it must be a tangential one. As the kids might say,
"DUH!"

> I agree with you if your point is that people who own brand-new
> computers have little call, anywhere in the world, in complaining
> about US$25/year. I just don't think that all the people who *are*
> complaining about US$25/year, in this thread, have brand-spanking-new
> computers.

Your distortions of fact will not become true no matter how many times
you repeat them. You have not shown anything that counters my statement
concerning the cost of an average computer/monitor/peripherals/etc.; all
you have done is repeat wrong information.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nam et ipsa scientia potestas es.
Knowledge is power.
-- Sir Francis Bacon

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] taking a deep breath
From:	Nurmi Husa <polymath@pacifier.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:42:41 -0700

SALVETE, AMICI CARI

There's nothing like the subject of taxation to get
people to arguing like a school of piranha with low
blood sugar. (Thank the Gods we've been spared the
subjects of sewer assessments and whether pot-bellied
pigs can be raised as pets within city limits!)

Excellent points have been made ALL around - but as
usual, we each of us argue from our own *particular*
place in the universe. It is helpful, from time to
time, to try to argue from another's point of view.
Especially if that someone is from far away, either in
life experience, financial worth or geography.

I am confident that everyone MEANS well, but MEANING
WELL often results in blood on the kitchen floor and a
desperate search for a plausible alibi.

My 0.02 USD worth.

VALETE

-gn-



=====
-------------------------------------------
gn. mallius occho saturninus (pending)
-------------------------------------------
nurmi husa
mailto:polymath@pacifier.com
http://www.pacifier.com/~polymath
-------------------------------------------

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:34:20 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date : 28 August 2002 07:08:42
>
>I am running linux on 486DX2 with a 300MB disk without any problem.
>A full instalation requires some 80MB (without docs, but with X and
>fvwm), and there are many mini-distros that run from a floppy.
>
Salve,
I'm pleased to hear it. With X you say? My problem must be that knowing nothing about it, someone offered me a Suse set of CDs (6) and then I found Red Hat 7.1 (3) in the library. I prefer the RH because it adds in what it needs where Suse just warns what is necessary but both seem rather extravagant about what they assume is necessary and I really don't know enough about it to mix&match my own. What I want on it more than anything is a decent C++ compiler and an Algol68 one because that is what I know, C++ what I need to know.
I'm not a great GUI fan but command line can be worse for simple things. Ideal would be a menu based selection with ability to type additions. It's my hope in about 15 months to get back into 'real' computer work doing something scientific or engineering in Unix - as far from E-Commerce, Web Design and MuckySoft as I can get!
Ex ira Vibii Ambrosii Caesariensis.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:36:11 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date : 28 August 2002 07:08:42
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes
Em Ter, 2002-08-27 ýs 17:33, me-in-@disguise.co.uk escreveu:
>
>I am running linux on 486DX2 with a 300MB disk without any problem.
>A full instalation requires some 80MB (without docs, but with X and
>fvwm), and there are many mini-distros that run from a floppy.
>
Post Scriptum: you wouldn't care to Zip the system down the mail would you?
Vib. Amb. Caes.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Forum Message Board
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:44:32 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

Just a quick note to let the powers that be that the message board in
Forum Romanum is out since yesterday.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Forum Message Board
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:57:32 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Quinte Lani,

> Just a quick note to let the powers that be that the message board in
> Forum Romanum is out since yesterday.

beseen.com, which provided that service and also our old chat system,
shut down permanently a few days ago.

I'll try to find and install a replacement this weekend.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Forum Message Board
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:14:31 -0000

>Salve Senator Octavi,

Thank you for the info.Looks like your web work is cut out for you.
Have a great weekend anyway.

Regards

Quintus
> I'll try to find and install a replacement this weekend.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Re: Ideas - taxes
From:	Ira Adams <iadams@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:31:19 -0500

Salve

This oft-repeated argument attributing affluence to anyone using a
computer is simply not realistic. Some of our citizens interact with us
through access at their places of employment, using computers to which
they don't own. One of our most distinguished citizens relies on a WebTV
terminal than can be purchased for under $100 at Wal-Mart.

Even in the USA, owning a computer of your own is no indication of
affluence. I know several families living below the poverty level who
have computers that were donated for the use of their children. The world
is becoming awash in discarded computers. As newer models are released
monthly, the older models are sold or, in many cases, put out in the
dumpster for the garbage man.

A good basic computer in the USA can be purchased for $25. I know this
because I accidently bought one for just that price a couple of years
ago. Of course it doesn't have a color display and won't run Doom! or
Tomb Raider, so nobody wants it, but it would do just fine to communicate
with Nova Roma. I have sold several powerful computer systems for under
$200. I have also given some away. I am a member of some computer mailing
lists where European members have often posted about finding perfectly
functional computers, printers, etc., being discarded by schools and
businesses.

Don't assume that everyone from whom you receive email is using a $1200
G4 Power Macintosh or a $2000 WindowsXP machine. Some people here may
have to choose between necessities for their children and taxes for Nova
Roma, and that can apply to citizens who live in the United States as
well as in central Europe.

I'm not certain there can be any "fair" or equitable system of taxes for
us, but I hope we keep struggling toward one which doesn't cost us the
participation of any present or potential citizens anywhere. A tax system
that assumes that $12 is a "trivial amount" for anyone located in the USA
won't meet that test. Life ain't that simple.

Vale,

L. Sergius Australicus


On 8/27/02 2:59 PM Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com (Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com)
wrote:

>On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 07:28:18PM -0000, lafaustus wrote:
>
>Salve, L. Arminius Faustus -
>
>> Please, I am not complaining to anyone, but I must comment!
>>
>> Quirites! What are we hearing?! In the name of Penia, the Poverty,
>> the goddess that spread her infausti influence over the whole world,
>> the sole Empress of our unfair civilization! US$ 12 is too low???
>> Only in the USA! Put the awful exchange rates on it and it will be
>> killing for all others countries, specially on the Third World! US$12
>> is R$36 for me, my bill of the market for three weeks! Who would pay
>> more to afford a cultural non-profit organization?
>>
>> US$ 12 is too much! We must fight to LOWER the tax rate of Nova Roma,
>> the main cause of capite censi citizens, our MAJOR problem...
>>
>> Remember the exchange rates...
>
>I must say, you've got my curiosity involved. A fairly basic computer
>(CPU, monitor, etc.) in the US costs about $1k; I _know_ that there's
>not very much profit built into that, either, meaning that the cost
>isn't going to vary much (except maybe _upward_) in other places. From
>what you're saying, then, the cost of a _basic_ computer where you live
>is around 5 *YEARS* worth of groceries... is that correct? This means
>that two top-end PCs would buy you groceries for your entire *life*.
>
>I contend that your numbers are somewhat skewed (the "cost of living"
>web page for Brazil certainly implies it), _and_ that US$12 is a trivial
>amount to a person who can afford a computer.
>
>
>(Please note that nowhere have I expressed my opinion on the fairness of
>the tax burden; here, I'm speaking only of the economic factors which I
>believe to be misrepresented.)
>
>
>Vale,
>Caius Minucius Scaevola

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] LUDI ROMANI CULTURAL AWARD -3 days
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:02:59 +0200

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

I remember you that the deadline for the LUDI ROMANI CULTURAL AWARD is
coming, it's at 1st September 2002. Hurry up!

The LRCA is one of the many events organized during the next Ludi Romani by
the Cohors Aedilis Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus. It's the
cultural award to celebrate the glory of Rome and Nova Roma.
Each candidate can send a poetry or novel, or tragedy, or commedy, or poem,
etc. about:
- ancient roman victories
- roman wars
- ancient and modern great heroes
- links by the glory of Rome and Nova Roma
- our roman origins
- and other great accomplishments.

The work must be in English and with a maximum of 500 words.

Each text must have the following facts about the participant(s): Nova Roman
name, real name, Nova Roman Provinceage, e-mail address. The deadline to
send own work is 1st September, 2002 (2755 a.u.c.), by e-mail to
sacro_barese_impero@libero.it [Franciscus Apulus Caesar] with the subject
"LRCA.".

Let's go, Nova Romans, let your poetry come up ... hurry up, partecipate to
the LUDI ROMANI CULTURAL AWARD!

Informations:
- Cohors Aedilis - Section Ludi:
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/romani/cultural_award.htm
- Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus: tjalens.h@telia.com
- Quaestor Franciscus Apulus Caesar: sacro_barese_impero@libero.it

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Taxes, old discussions and EU
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:09:31 +0200

Salvete Omnes!

The discussions about taxes have been interesting, but as Illustra
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo indicated, we have had this discussion before
and I haven't seen many new ideas here this time. Still a few good
ideas have been stated once again, for example:

1. that we should let the Governors collect the taxes. and
2. that the Provinces should keep their shareof the taxes and not
send them to the Central treasury.

Many of the old citizens have not participated in these discussions
maybe because they have heard some of it before. That is a pity as I
think that it is good for new citizens to get the input of the old.

Among the old citizens there are of course also some lack of
information, someone suggested that the citizens in Thule should
collect their money and then send the money in a lump to the
Treausury. But there is a very distinct problem, the European Union
isn't at all like USA.

We _have_ researched the possibilities and found that it is not
possible to send money from Finland to Sweden (both members of EU) in
any cheap and secure way. We even checked with a bank that have
offices in both countries, even they can't help us. Then we went
further and tried going by Paypal with a VISA card, but if You are
under 30 and is a male You can't get a VISA card in Finland (which
You can in Sweden). The problem is that my very competent and active
Legatus in Regio Finnica because of this can't get a VISA card. At
last we have heard that it may be possible to get a Paypal account
using your bank account, but this may not be true. If not, the only
chance is to change Euro into Sweden (with the cost for exchange) and
then send the money by the un-secure snail mail from Finland to
Sweden (this was the way we handled it this year). I won't even
mention the problems with Norway, which isn't a member of EU.

I hope that I have been able to clear out some misunderstanding about
the difficulties of transfereing money in EU and Thule. I think that
it is safe to assume that those involved are those who best know the
problems of their own region.
--
Valete

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"

************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes, old discussions and EU
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:01:36 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes!
>
>> 1. that we should let the Governors collect the taxes. and
> 2. that the Provinces should keep their shareof the taxes and not
> send them to the Central treasury.
>
> Salve Senator Fabi,

Does Nova Roma have the position called Procurator? I believe that in
ancient times he was a representative from Rome who assisted the
provincial governors with the tax collecting and all finances as well
as directly reporting any financial related problems or anomalies to
Rome. It would be better to have an experienced assistant(eg.
bookeeper) like that for NR provincial governors if they are
collecting taxes. In that way a governor would be well protected from
possible future false accusations of mismanagement etc. along with
decent bookeeping.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




> The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
> ************************************************
> The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
> http://thule.novaroma.org/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes, old discussions and EU
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:52:36 +0200

Salve Honorable Quintus Lanius Paulinus!

I appreciate your ideas. Still I think that this kind of double power
would not be good, the Governors have Imperium in their Provincia and
there is no higher authority. I think it is good to have _one_
magistrate appointed by the Senate that is responsible for the
activities in each Provincia. The best way to handle the legal issues
is to in the future register each Provincia with the "local"
government as a non-profit organisation. The old Republic had a
rather decentralized administrative system. I think that we should be
true to our model, Roma Antiqua.

>--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
><christer.edling@t...> wrote:
>> Salvete Omnes!
>>
>>> 1. that we should let the Governors collect the taxes. and
>> 2. that the Provinces should keep their shareof the taxes and not
>> send them to the Central treasury.
>>
>> Salve Senator Fabi,
>
>Does Nova Roma have the position called Procurator? I believe that in
>ancient times he was a representative from Rome who assisted the
>provincial governors with the tax collecting and all finances as well
>as directly reporting any financial related problems or anomalies to
>Rome. It would be better to have an experienced assistant(eg.
>bookeeper) like that for NR provincial governors if they are
>collecting taxes. In that way a governor would be well protected from
>possible future false accusations of mismanagement etc. along with
>decent bookeeping.
>
>Yours respectfully,
>
>Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>> The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
>> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
>> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
>> ************************************************
>> The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
>> http://thule.novaroma.org/
>> ************************************************
>> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
>> "I'll either find a way or make one"
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"

************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] pigs in rome
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:04:24 EDT

In a message dated 8/28/02 4:41:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
polymath@pacifier.com writes:


> and whether pot-bellied
> pigs can be raised as pets within city limits!)
>

Salvete

We cannot raise pot bellied pigs with in Rome? Aediles, see that this
changed at once.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus who loves his pigs.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes, old discussions and EU
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:11:34 EDT

In a message dated 8/28/02 12:04:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mjk@datanet.ab.ca writes:


> Does Nova Roma have the position called Procurator? I believe that in
> ancient times he was a representative from Rome who assisted the
> provincial governors with the tax collecting and all finances as well
> as directly reporting any financial related problems or anomalies to
> Rome.

A Procurator was an Imperial position held by a freeman responsible to the
Imperator, and I like the spin you put on it, "assisted" governors in tax
problems. That's like saying the Plague "helped" Europe with its population
problem.
Funny man. But your point is taken. How many CPAs are here on the mainlist?
One? Two?
I do not think it is feasible at this time.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman hydraulic engineering
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:14:26 EDT

Salvete.
Those interested in hydraulic engineering of the Roman aqueduct might look at
this source:
http://www.uq.edu.au/~e2hchans/rom_aq.html
(Click PROCEED when arriving to the UQ Web Resources / Staff Web Page)

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes, old discussions and EU
From:	"lafaustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:21:47 -0000

Salve, honorable Fabius Quintilianus,

´... to in the future register each Provincia with the "local"
government as a non-profit organisation...´

I agree entirely! This is the solution for many legal problems! And
by the estatute, the local NR (provincial government) will be
bounded to the main NR (central administration).


L. Arminius Faustus



--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salve Honorable Quintus Lanius Paulinus!
>
> I appreciate your ideas. Still I think that this kind of double
power
> would not be good, the Governors have Imperium in their Provincia
and
> there is no higher authority. I think it is good to have _one_
> magistrate appointed by the Senate that is responsible for the
> activities in each Provincia. The best way to handle the legal
issues
> is to in the future register each Provincia with the "local"
> government as a non-profit organisation. The old Republic had a
> rather decentralized administrative system. I think that we should
be
> true to our model, Roma Antiqua.
>
> >--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> ><christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> >> Salvete Omnes!
> >>
> >>> 1. that we should let the Governors collect the taxes. and
> >> 2. that the Provinces should keep their shareof the taxes and
not
> >> send them to the Central treasury.
> >>
> >> Salve Senator Fabi,
> >
> >Does Nova Roma have the position called Procurator? I believe that
in
> >ancient times he was a representative from Rome who assisted the
> >provincial governors with the tax collecting and all finances as
well
> >as directly reporting any financial related problems or anomalies
to
> >Rome. It would be better to have an experienced assistant(eg.
> >bookeeper) like that for NR provincial governors if they are
> >collecting taxes. In that way a governor would be well protected
from
> >possible future false accusations of mismanagement etc. along with
> >decent bookeeping.
> >
> >Yours respectfully,
> >
> >Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
> >> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
> >> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
> >> ************************************************
> >> The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
> >> http://thule.novaroma.org/
> >> ************************************************
> >> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> >> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
> Propraetor Thules
> AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
> Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
> "Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
>
> ************************************************
> The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
> ************************************************
> The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
> http://thule.novaroma.org/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] pigs in rome
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:28:07 +0200

Salve Illustris Q. Fabius Maximus et Omnes!

Illustris Q. Fabius Maximus You have been upset without cause.

Hereby I publicly declare that Nurmi Husa has correctly understood
the policy of the Aediles. This is a correct quote of what Nurmi Husa
said: "Thank the Gods we've been spared the subjects of sewer
assessments and whether pot-bellied pigs can be raised as pets within
city limits!"

It is also correct that these issues are not subject of any
discussion or legal action, at least not from the Aediles, as far I
know. Illustris Q. Fabius Maximus You can continue to love pigs. ;-)

>In a message dated 8/28/02 4:41:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>polymath@pacifier.com writes:
>
>
>> and whether pot-bellied
>> pigs can be raised as pets within city limits!)
>>
>
>Salvete
>
>We cannot raise pot bellied pigs with in Rome? Aediles, see that this
>changed at once.
>Valete
>Q. Fabius Maximus who loves his pigs.

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"

************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes, old discussions and EU
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:44:51 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:

Salve Senator Fabi,

Thank you for your response. I could see how power sharing might
create problems as you suggest. As we all live under different levels
of taxation and rules throughout the world the registration of each
province as a non profit organization with its local government is a
good idea. Who knows, it may be even possible to get grants from our
local governments some day. Our Mexican cultural association here in
Alberta, Canada just got one for example. The only problem I would
hate to see history repeating itself. For example if one of the
provinces got wealthy, fancy with more patricipation than others then
there would be a chance that the future leaders could become cockier,
more brazen and wish to break away and form another Nova Roma for not
having their way on different issues. Hopefully Senators and Consuls
will put in some safe guards to prevent this from happening.
Certainly not at our stage now but as Cassius622 said on a message
last week that NR could have 10,000 souls within 10 years given our
growth rate so you would have to expect some revolutionaries out of
that number.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus




> Salve Honorable Quintus Lanius Paulinus!
>
> I appreciate your ideas. Still I think that this kind of double
power
> would not be good, the Governors have Imperium in their Provincia
and
> there is no higher authority. I think it is good to have _one_
> magistrate appointed by the Senate that is responsible for the
> activities in each Provincia. The best way to handle the legal
issues
> is to in the future register each Provincia with the "local"
> government as a non-profit organisation. The old Republic had a
> rather decentralized administrative system. I think that we should
be
> true to our model, Roma Antiqua.
>
> >--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> ><christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> >> Salvete Omnes!
> >>
> >>> 1. that we should let the Governors collect the taxes. and
> >> 2. that the Provinces should keep their shareof the taxes and
not
> >> send them to the Central treasury.
> >>
> >> Salve Senator Fabi,
> >
> >Does Nova Roma have the position called Procurator? I believe that
in
> >ancient times he was a representative from Rome who assisted the
> >provincial governors with the tax collecting and all finances as
well
> >as directly reporting any financial related problems or anomalies
to
> >Rome. It would be better to have an experienced assistant(eg.
> >bookeeper) like that for NR provincial governors if they are
> >collecting taxes. In that way a governor would be well protected
from
> >possible future false accusations of mismanagement etc. along with
> >decent bookeeping.
> >
> >Yours respectfully,
> >
> >Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
> >> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
> >> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
> >> ************************************************
> >> The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
> >> http://thule.novaroma.org/
> >> ************************************************
> >> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> >> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
> Propraetor Thules
> AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
> Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
> "Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
>
> ************************************************
> The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
> ************************************************
> The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
> http://thule.novaroma.org/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes, old discussions and EU
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:04:13 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 8/28/02 12:04:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Salve Fabi,
Thank you for better defining the role of the Procurator. I'll hit
the books and read up about the conflicts they had with governors,
should be interesting. I see your point as well and confess that I do
have a warped sense of humor.

Take Care,

Quintus.
>>
> A Procurator was an Imperial position held by a freeman responsible
to the
> Imperator, and I like the spin you put on it, "assisted" governors
in tax
> problems. That's like saying the Plague "helped" Europe with its
population
> problem.
> Funny man. But your point is taken. How many CPAs are here on the
mainlist?
> One? Two?
> I do not think it is feasible at this time.
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:39:02 EDT

In a message dated 8/27/02 6:36:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
richmal@attbi.com writes:


> psst, Brutus, how many times do I have to tell
> you, hide the dagger)

I thought we banished Brutus last week?

QFM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Latin Tax
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:43:04 +0000

Salvete omnes:

I have something to say about this tax issue, and will make it short.

Since the $25 dollars, the proposed tax rate, is equivalent to 4 hours
work at the minimum wage of $6.25, the just rate for the Latin American
countries should be $2.00 dollars, the minimum wage there being at $0.50
cents, unless you want to price out the latinos, and keep NR as an
exclusively anglo group. Anything over $2.00 is unjust. And let them carry
their own administrative weight. That shouldn't be a problem. I see the
Brazilians already translated the whole system. That would have been worth
hundreds of dollars, if not thousands.

Just think what would be like to have the tax rate at $300.00. And that
is what a $25.00 dollars is worth in Latin America.

I am not being facitious about this. In Latin America for $25.00 you
can get boarding for a whole month, and that is exactly what you would get
here for its equivalent of $300.00 dollars. Double that amount to $50.00
dollars and you could rent a house, and again you get the same thing here
for a $600.00 dollars.

Then the idea of letting them pay less but with no right to vote.
Please, don't do that. You will be defranchising teachers, professors, and
professionals who excell in their field.

Think again, you vote if you pay $300.00 dollars, and no vote if you pay
$25.00. How would you feel?

Valete

G. Galerius Peregrinator.





_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Request for help
From:	"Liz Baker" <viator753@hailmail.net>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:20:09 UT

Salvete, omnes!

I am seeking information about people or organizations that are
researching ancient Greek and Roman technology, especially those
interested in trying to reconstruct ancient machines to see how well
they work. I am a recently graduated classics major who is very
interested in this field and would like to work in it, but I have not
had much luck in finding such groups (or, having found mention of them,
I have been unable to find a mailing or email address). Any help or
leads that you can give would be greatly appreciated; please send
replies to viator753@hailmail.net.

Gratias vobis ago!

Aurelia Ambrosia Viatrix
--
Liz Baker
viator753@hailmail.net

--
http://fastmail.fm - Click it, you'll feel better

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fundraising idea
From:	"Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:00:29 -0400

Pro. Postumius Nero C. Vipsanio Agrippae S.P.D.

Salve,

"One idea for fundraising would be to join MBNA's Affinity Mastercard program. I'm not exactly sure how the program works but I know of lots of other non-profit organisations (Ducks Unlimited, Alberta Rugby, University of Alberta Alumni Society, for example) that use this system. I believe that a certain percentage of your spending on the card goes to the group. I see these cards at work quite often. It helps raise money as well as awareness of the cause."

A good idea, but do you know the specifics of how it would work? As I once told the Senator Quintillianus, I am one whom would be at one of my happiest points when I can walk onto a plot of land and say "Now I'm in Nova Roma," so I'm all over getting funds into the Land Project, which, for those whom don't know, is over at http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/NRLandProject. So if you could get me more information I'll definantly look into it and propose it to whom I may.

Ave et Vale,

Pro. Postumius Nero

"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" -- Q. Horati Flacci


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] That Pigs Might Fly...
From:	Nurmi Husa <polymath@pacifier.com>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:03:30 -0700

...like little erotes to cheer us all!



AVE, AMICI CARI


>Salvete
>
>We cannot raise pot bellied pigs with in Rome? Aediles, see that this
>changed at once.
>Valete
>Q. Fabius Maximus who loves his pigs.

Aaaiiieeee!!! I have brought this down upon myself for mentioning the
dear little creatures!!!

I was speaking rhetorically, and now I've created another causus belli.

To misquote Guillemus Pilum-Tremens, "First thing we do, let's kill
all the rhetors."

Ahem.


VALETE

-gn-



-------------------------------------------
gn. mallius occho saturninus (pending)
-------------------------------------------
nurmi husa
mailto:polymath@pacifier.com
http://www.pacifier.com/~polymath
-------------------------------------------
--


******************************************

"No matter how cynical you get,
it's almost impossible to keep up."
- Lilly Tomlin

N U R M I H U S A
6503 Louisiana Drive
Vancouver, WA 98661 USA
phone 360 694 3641 fax 360 737 3715
http://www.pacifier.com/~polymath
polymath@pacifier.com

******************************************

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] pigs in rome
From:	"Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:10:15 -0400

>> and whether pot-bellied
>> pigs can be raised as pets within city limits!)
>>
>
>Salvete
>
>We cannot raise pot bellied pigs with in Rome? Aediles, see that this
>changed at once.
>Valete
>Q. Fabius Maximus who loves his pigs.

Salvete Omnes Amici Mei,

Very much agreed. And be sure I can keep my ducks in the City! Either they stay or I go!

Valete,

Proculus Postumius Nero, angry at the prospect of losing my household zoo.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Re: Ideas - taxes
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:39:06 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Ira Adams <iadams@earthlink.net>
Date : 28 August 2002 17:31:19
>
>
>have computers that were donated for the use of their children. The world
>is becoming awash in discarded computers. As newer models are released
>monthly, the older models are sold or, in many cases, put out in the
>dumpster for the garbage man.
>
There is a minor mystery here. Internet cafes in particluar must be as quick to upgrade as hire car firms and I'm getting 'bin it' remarks for raising questions about a 200MHz Pentium 2 I've borrowed. BUT there is no flood of excellent year or two old computers being given, or even sold, away. I understand that some companies give them to countries where the electricity supply is so poor I can think of more important things for the locals to have but what is for sale is usually a small number of home machines overpriced because of pretending to be HiFi or TV installations - ie they quote the speaker size and games additions before the disk capacity. So where are the rest of them? Is there a vast EC silicon mountain adding to the Alps?
Ibi Magnum Mysterium se tenet...
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes, old discussions and EU
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:43:27 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date : 28 August 2002 21:11:34
>
>
>A Procurator was an Imperial position held by a freeman responsible to the
>Imperator, and I like the spin you put on it, “assisted“ governors in tax
>problems. That's like saying the Plague “helped“ Europe with its population
>problem.

True but the Republican system, like everything else in Rome, was privatised and I don't think /that/ is an institution desirable to restore! Id Est, you contract to raise the taxes and then raise whatever taxes you like above what needs to go back to Rome. The Imperial system, coming under paid professionals (like Pontius Pilate) was a definite improvement. (Though I don't believe he was).
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes (Hardware thread)
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:13:32 +0200

me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> So where are the rest of them? Is there
> a vast EC silicon mountain adding to the
> Alps?

Salve, Vibi Ambrosi Caesariensis.

Here's an excerpt from an e-mail I received today:

-------

Bortskänkes:

SCSI HDD 540MB Conner CFA540S, SCSI-2, 5400 RPM
Nån slags thrusmaster joystick mojäng (som man kopplar till
tangentbordet)

Skum ATA-33 "removable hard drive tray"
CD-ROM Philips 12X
DIMM 16MB 16MB PC66 SDRAM
Moderkort 486 OPTi 82C495XLC med:
486 DX40 (tror jag)
8MB minne
Multifunktionskort Grafik+IO, VL-BUS Cirrus Logic 5426, Promise
PDC20230
EIDE

Dator Mac Mac IIsi med:
Apple Ethernet
SCSI HDD 120MB Quantum ProDrive LPS
Mac->PC skärm adapter

Ring mig om ni vill ha nåt att mecka med... annars är det sopberget
nästa...

--------

Okies, swedish, but most of it is probably understandable. This is a
classmate of mine giving away some computer hardware to anyone who wants
it. If nobody wants it, it's "off to the garbage heap".

Admittedly, this isn't a year or two old computers. These parts are
maybe five or six years old, at least. Still, they're probably adequate
for someone out of cash in need of a home computer for e-mail, or
whatever. The existence of such is the point the "opposition" is trying
to make, I believe.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] NR Tax Rate
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:24:38 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Omnes--

---Peregrinator wrote:---
Since the $25 dollars, the proposed tax rate, is
equivalent to 4 hours work at the minimum wage of
$6.25, the just rate for the Latin American countries
should be $2.00 dollars, the minimum wage there being
at $0.50 cents...(snipped)

Renata: This sounds like a fair and equitable
solution to the problem that should work for all
concerned. I've kept quiet on the issue until now,
but I would definitely support the above.

I do have a question, though--How do other
organizations with international memberships--for
example, international medical societies and so
forth--charge their dues?
---
Renata Corva
Scriba Praetoris

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ideas - taxes (Hardware thread)
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 23:20:27 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date : 28 August 2002 23:13:32
>
>Admittedly, this isn't a year or two old computers. These parts are
>maybe five or six years old, at least. Still, they're probably adequate
>for someone out of cash in need of a home computer for e-mail, or
>whatever. The existence of such is the point the “opposition“ is trying
>to make, I believe.
>
Which is quite adequate for a lot of purposses. They don't seem to be doing it in Ireland though! I'm looking for a disk and it's all up in the 40G range. Maybe drives wear out too fast.
Vib. Amb. Caes.

"If I am not for myself, who will be? But if I am only for myself, what am I?" - The Rabbi Hillel



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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: NR Tax Rate
From:	"miguelkelly15" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 28 Aug 2002 23:41:16 -0000

> I do have a question, though--How do other
> organizations with international memberships--for
> example, international medical societies and so
> forth--charge their dues?
> ---
> Renata Corva
> Scriba Praetoris
>
Salve Renata,

In my experience if the societies or organizations are from North
America or Western Europe they had a fixed fee of membership for
everyone. There was no mention of international wage or annual income
differences. They probably felt that there are still wealthy
privilaged people in many of the poorer countries (especially if they
have a medical or engineering or law degree from abroad) and that
those without means would not be from that strata and be able to
apply anyway;2)It seems most international things and prices are
based out of the west; for example in Latin America if you went to
international hotel chains, tourist areas, restaurants you pay 10 -
25.00 Canadian dinner and 4.00 for a beer like here. Go a few miles,
mix with the native people you get a meal for less than 5.00 and a
beer for 1.00. Just for fun look at some of the mail-order-bride
agencies out of South America and Russia. They set their prices to
international levels too. Although a doctor might make 200.00 US a
month in Russia for example these agencies do not expect the
Westerners to pay 2.00 for services. They are charging 50.00 US or
more quite often. Terrible for their own guys.

Therfore, from my experience, Nova Roma is quite unique in what
it is planning to do about fees vs international income. I am sure if
I wrote to discuss this problem with the clubs and agencies that I
belonged to, they would tell me that their operating costs are mainly
out of North America and Europe and they would go belly up quickly
for charging artificially low rates. Still, it looks like Nova Roma
would be able to swing this so I am sure that the gods of Rome and
god will bless NR for its effort.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
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