Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Lacus Magni Event this Saturday
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:59:59 -0700 (PDT)

Just a final reminder, this Saturday the 28th is the Lacus Magni Event in Columbus, Ohio. If there is still anyone interested in attending, you can e-mail me your confirmation.

If you have any questions, just check out the website or e-mail me.

http://blobbin.hypermart.net/Roman%20Festival.htm

Thanks,

Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni

---------------------------------
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Noviodunus {WAS Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire}
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:33:17 -0000

G. Noviodunus has never set foot in the United States. But his
suggestion that we call him "Nostradamus" is apt; Nostradomus didn't
know what the hell he was talking about either.

Gaius Cassius Nerva


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Asterix et Obelix
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:12:15 -0000

---Salve Merlinia:

We were having a discussion about that at Fort Malden this year. Our
Legatus of Nova Gallia Canada Orientalis, Marcus Darius Firmitus has
seen the animations. They are priceless. Now he lives in Ottawa,
very close to Quebec City. Now I don't know if he can access tapes
of these or if he sees them on syndicated TV. I believe he has seen
the movie too.

I have never seen them, myself.

I will drop a note to him and see if maybe some films are available
in VHS or DVD in Quebec. I would imagine they might be English
subtitles, but I get the impression most of the hilarity is in the
animations.

I'll let you know who I make out. Maybe we can see some of them at
our next Provincia gathering.

For those who just 'tuned in', "Asterex" centers around a very
small,but tenacious part of Gaul that Caesar can't get his hand on,
and they fight somewhat metaphysically.

Thanks for bringing this up, Merlinia. I hope you are keeping well.
And you always bring up very interesting threads.

Bene vale,
Pompeia

In Nova-Roma@y..., Joanne Shaver <merlinia@c...> wrote:
> Salvete, All! Merlinia Ambrosia sends Greetings!
> 2 years ago, when I was in England, I saw the 'Asterex'live action
> movie starring Gerard Depardieu. It was great.
> As an Anniversary present, Carl found me the next one,
called 'Asterix
> & Obelix take on Caesar'. Having the chance to see it a few times, I
> think they got a lot of the details done right. Of course, the
people
> (esp. Christmas Bonus and Caesar)look uncannily like the cartoon
> characters, And the Romans wear Red, but it looks like they used re
> enactors. They go into 3 testudoes beautifully (then the Celts make
them
> fly in the air...) The Pilae are Nice! there's all kinds of armor!
> The Celts look Great!
> Too bad they were never released in the U.S.! My husband has been
> looking on Amazon for a tape/CD from Canada all this time.
> Those of you who live where it is available, Lucky you!
> Valete for now!
> -M.


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Noviodunus {WAS Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire}
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:36:43 -0000

Salvete Gai et omnes,

I agree about Nostradamus. As we say hind sight is 20/20. His
predictions were hazy and many people over the last hundred years
force fit later historical occurances into his verses in my opinion.
Predictions are at best very vague and general, not specific; not one
prophet or Pyschic predicted the destruction of specific buildings on
9-11 for example as has been pointed out. Now let me show you my
prophetic skills so all shall be in awe. I predict some more sucide
bombings in Isreal in the next 3 months, I see a major plane crash
happening in Europe within the next year, an earthquake in the Pacfic
rim, military turmoil in Africa,a change of government in Iraq within
the next 1 - 5 years and a big divorce of a hollywood celebrity in
the next few months.

Regards

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Desperate for a greek song's lyrics
From:	"Marilde Goliardi Perdomo" <gmarilde@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:34:34 -0300

Salvete Romani:

Does anybody know the ode "Mikro Kostantinos" that is sang in the
Anastenaria, the fire-walking ritual? I'm terribly curious about it.
Evidently it refers to the Emperor Constantine the Great because
the Anastenarides believe that his spirit comes to possess them during
the mystic crossing. And they carry holy icons with his image. The strange
thing is that "mikro". I'd love to know if it's based on a legend of
Constantine's childhood.

Thank you very much!!!

Valeria Constantinia Iuliana.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Fotos: la forma más fácil de compartir e imprimir fotos.
http://photos.msn.es/support/worldwide.aspx


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Back up
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 02:03:52 -0000

Salvete Gai et omnes,

Here is one site to visit about Nostradamus that better enchances my
point of view.

http://skepdic.com/nostrada.html


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Asterix et Obelix
From:	"Marilde Goliardi Perdomo" <gmarilde@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:01:56 -0300

Pious Iuppiter!!! I have always felt that those adventures of Asterix and
Obelix are insulting. As a Roman I can't stand this kind of mockery.
Uhhh...had to say that.

Valeria Constantinia Iuliana.

>From: Joanne Shaver <merlinia@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Ben Redditt <wohali@erols.com>, Bheithir Mailing list
><clan@bheithir.org>, Caius Fabius <SPQR_HQ@hotmail.com>, Cassius Bradford
><Cassius622@aol.com>, Correus <correus@yahoo.com>, Guidianus Tasitus
>Adamantus <troy@asan.com>, "mediatlanticaprovincia@yahoogroups.com"
><mediatlanticaprovincia@yahoogroups.com>, "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com"
><Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>, Quintus Darius Macro <mamt@lrcm.usuhs.mil>,
>Rory Murray <laxboy100@aol.com>, Sara <sarazaza@hotmail.com>, Sibylla
>Ambrosia Fulvia <jrsibley@snet.net>, "Silvanious Ambr.Silvanious"
><shamrock@cros.net>, STEVEN PEFFLEY <fir_bolg54@hotmail.com>, "Vivianna
>Ambr." <RavenMoonMyste@aol.com>
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Asterix et Obelix
>Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:08:11 -0400
>
>Salvete, All! Merlinia Ambrosia sends Greetings!
> 2 years ago, when I was in England, I saw the 'Asterex'live action
>movie starring Gerard Depardieu. It was great.
> As an Anniversary present, Carl found me the next one, called 'Asterix
>& Obelix take on Caesar'. Having the chance to see it a few times, I
>think they got a lot of the details done right. Of course, the people
>(esp. Christmas Bonus and Caesar)look uncannily like the cartoon
>characters, And the Romans wear Red, but it looks like they used re
>enactors. They go into 3 testudoes beautifully (then the Celts make them
>fly in the air...) The Pilae are Nice! there's all kinds of armor!
>The Celts look Great!
> Too bad they were never released in the U.S.! My husband has been
>looking on Amazon for a tape/CD from Canada all this time.
> Those of you who live where it is available, Lucky you!
>Valete for now!
> -M.

_________________________________________________________________
Charle con sus amigos online usando MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:12:53 -0500

"Two words I do not understand at all, at least in context: "American + Culture"?"

How much more more of this hackeneyed inane vomit must I suffer? Maybe you don't understand because:

1. You don't want to;
2. You're too busy watching reruns of "Two Fat Ladies", "Nigella Bites", and "Absolutely Fabulous" to care;
3. You're incapable of understanding, i.e. just-plain-stupid.

Explain English culture to me, hmm? Is it your great wines? Your great chefs? Your liberal, fun, free wheeling, open culture that brought us the Jallianwala Bagh tragedy, WWI, WWII, Neville Chamberlain, and Tony Blair?

Please, pop in a Benny Hill tape, gorge yourself on some kidney pie or other grotesque organ meat dish, while you let your government strip you of your rights as your country becomes a bunch of complacent Utopian socialist cattle.

Chim Chim cheroo

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire

-----Original Message-----
From : Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
>
>I'm not searching for differences. I LUV Europe. But I will not tolerate or stand silent while my beloved country is incessantly and unfairly insulted. And its seems as if we're all in on the joke, like its understood that America sucks, ha ha wink wink. American Culture is one of our greatest exports, and is a true melting pot of some of the worlds best cultures. So enough already.
>
Now there's a huge difference to start with: about the only Europeans who'd admit to a phrase like 'beloved country' beloong to the kind of political parties everybody'd like to ban before they get power and ban everybody else! Two words I do not understand at all, at least in context: "American + Culture"?
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Mmmm!!!
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:14:37 -0500

http://www.pierecipe.com/AZ/SteakandKidneyPie.asp

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:39:53 -0500

Ave:

Well, we seem to have an expert on America in our midsts, here. I feel so lucky! Spanish is about to become the majority language?!?! Oh God, please don't let it happen!!

Then again, when the Hispanic population is 31 million in a country of 284 million or so (31 million people or 11.5% of the total population), the British defintiton of "majority" must be some kind of different. Man, do I feel like an ignorant ugly American!

"When immigrants were taught English and the self-image was landed English gentry, other communities (Yiddish, Black, Irish...) seem to have flourished with a much greater certainty as all equally secure because none could occupy that top place."

What? What kind of babbling gibberish is this? This has got to be a joke. Please tell me this is all some joke. Is this stuff funny in the UK?

Check out what the American ambassador to Engalnd's daughter had to say:

"Despite their "sexy" accents, British boys just do not make the grade compared with their American counterparts. That is the considered verdict of Mary-Catherine Lader, the 15-year-old daughter of the US ambassador to London. Miss Lader made her opinions known in an article which appeared in Tatler magazine. She said that in the three years she has been in London she has come to the conclusion "British boys really suck". " For more insight into the future of Britain, read: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/873862.stm

Now that, my fair lady, is funny.

By the way, so this e-mail is not a total waste, my father, Flavius Basilicatus Furius, and I, have website near completion called http://ancientartillery.com/" showing some of the onagers and ballistae we've made.
Yo, check it out!

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire

-----Original Message-----
From : "G. Noviodunus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@iseli.org>
>
>Not knowing the other languages, not knowing other cultures, this is
>going to be the fall of the US empire. Call me Nostradamus, but you'll
>see that language and culture is much stronger than bombs and money.
>
There is a horrid inevitability about that which is different from the British ignoranc of other languages. In their case it was true imperialism. For Americans it appears to include a fear because they are already a multicultural empire imagining themselves much more homogeneous, perilously close in fact to Spanish being the majority language. To accept the validity of other ways overseas would validate the possibility of those ways at home as well. One of the ironies of not having a defined unassailably superior culture is that every cultural position may feel threatened by every other and try to avoid it. When immigrants were taught English and the self-image was landed English gentry, other communities (Yiddish, Black, Irish...) seem to have flourished with a much greater certainty as all equally secure because none could occupy that top place.
Likewise of course Rome-Greece.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

"If I am not for myself, who will be? But if I am only for myself, what am I?" - The Rabbi Hillel

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:41:57 -0700 (PDT)

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
SNIP
> Two words I do not
> understand at all, at least in context: "American +
> Culture"?
> Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.
>

Yes we do have a major problem to overcome as far as
culture goes. We started out as a British Colony which
left us at a distinct disadvantage compared to French,
Spanish, Belgian, and other European Colonies. At
least we have surpassed the Mother Country's Culture
(Though that feat isn't exactly worth bragging about)

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Languages
From:	"Numerius Cassius Niger" <menippus@attbi.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:41:53 -0000

Salve M. Minuci Audens!

You make an excellent point about language and the acquisition of
them. I am a teacher of English and ESL, and everyday I face
challenges with students of all ability levels. Educators are
finally coming to accept that every person learns differently and is
possessed of multiple abilities and intelligences. It is an
educator's responsibility to identify a student's learning style and
teach to it.
However, I take exception that folly of cookie-cutter education is
unique to the young. I am only 25, but I have known the truth you
speak of almost all my life. In fact, I would say it is my older
colleagues who tend to be the most intolerant when it comes to
things such as learning disabilities (which are, in reality, only
learning style differences). I, myself, have both dyscalculia and
dysgraphia. In turn, my mental difficulties with math (dyscalculia)
are perhaps the cause of my very accelerated level of language
acquisition. Your cooperation and collaboration with your wife is a
beautiful example of my steadfast belief in the benefits of
collaborative education.
You state that you have problems learning Latin due to the rote
memorization. Anyone who deals with languages can tell you that rote
memorization is perhaps the worst way to learn a language.
Unfortunately, many Classics educators refuse to adapt their
pedagogy to what we now understand as the most efficient ways to
acquire language proficiency. Adding to this problem is the fact
that much of the sociolinguistic context needed for quick and
complete language acquisition is just not possible with "moribund"
languages like Latin or Sanskrit. I refer you to
<http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/LatinBackground/SilentReadin
g.html>, an article that states the situation more succinctly than I
can. I will spare you more of my ramblings on pedagogy and say only
this, while I feel that Latin is important to Nova Roma; it is the
attempt to learn Latin that is important, not one's success in the
endeavor. For it is through the attempt that one turns his Genius
(in the original sense of the word) towards the beliefs and the
patterns of cognition of the Romans. (Some might take exception to
my belief in linguistic determinism; I humbly suggest that further
discussion of that topic be carried out in Sod. Latinitas.) It is
through the dedication of our Genii that we honor our ancestors.

Vale,
N. Cassius Niger


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire
From:	Kassandra Velez <kvelez@iris.nyit.edu>
Date:	Wed Sep 25 01:00:01 2002

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola wrote in response to Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis:
>"Two words I do not understand at all, at least in context: "American + Culture"?"
>
>How much more more of this hackeneyed inane vomit must I suffer? Maybe you don't understand because:
>
>1. You don't want to;
>2. You're too busy watching reruns of "Two Fat Ladies", "Nigella Bites", and "Absolutely Fabulous" to care;
>3. You're incapable of understanding, i.e. just-plain-stupid.
>
>Explain English culture to me, hmm? Is it your great wines? Your great chefs? Your liberal, fun, free wheeling, open culture that brought us the Jallianwala Bagh tragedy, WWI, WWII, Neville Chamberlain, and Tony Blair?
>
>Please, pop in a Benny Hill tape, gorge yourself on some kidney pie or other grotesque organ meat dish, while you let your government strip you of your rights as your country becomes a bunch of complacent Utopian socialist cattle.

Whoa! Calm down, please, both of you. As a native of New York, I don't like people basically saying I am an inferior being and/or have no right to live because of the country I happen to be born in any more than the next US resident/native does. That said, I don't like to watch insult-flinging sessions, either, even in defense of a point with which I partially or fully agree.

In any case, I suppose what I'm trying to say is this: Debate the relative merits of your countries/cultures all you like, but would you mind keeping it to a reasonably civil discussion of the issues at hand?

--Lucia Galeria Drusilla


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Culture-Bashing
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 04:26:28 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes:

<rant>
Just to inform anyone who is on moderated status--I
will NOT forward to this list any message whose
primary content is culture-bashing.

If you don't like some form of a culture's popular
entertainment or its politics, keep it to yourself or
express it in private email. It has no place on the
mainlist.

The purpose of this list is to discuss ancient Roman
culture and the logistics behind forming a
micronation--in a constructive and hopefully courteous
manner. We are not here to insult others.
</rant>

Sorry, folks, but the first message I read this
morning really pissed me off.

---
Renata Corva
Scriba Praetoris

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] All Rightee Now!!!!!
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:11:52 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

You sure know how to give a girl a rude awakening!

Regarding this latest thread on Bush, the Roman Empire, Nostradomis,
and the who nine yards.

Let me give you the story on this one...

When I saw the intitial post which began this thread, on pending
message I thought, hmmm. I know it is meant as funny but how many
people will take it as such? I am not American.

So I deferred to the good judgement of Marcus Octavius, the Senior
Consul, who thought, it was not all that offensive, being American
himself.

I know as a Canadian, that if you don't want to be the subject of
several comedy shows, you don't run for politics! :0

So, we were wrong, and I see that several are offended and are in
strong contention over this issue. I am sure that I can speak for the
Consul as well as myself that we did not mean to aide and abet a feud!
We can only use the best judgement we can, and I guess we blew it
this time.

Initially this had a morsel of Roman connection. It has none.

I therefore am requesting that those engaged in this discussion take
this up in private please.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia
Praetor


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Culture-Bashing
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:41:41 -0500

Ave

I apologize for any "culture bashing" I may have participated in. All those British TV shows I made fun of, I actually watch regularly.

However, I'd like to see the same response from group members whenever any country is "bashed" in here. It angers me beyond words when I'm reading through the messages from Nova Roma, truly enjoying the discourse, and someone slips in some snide remark about the U.S., or any other country. Why is this tolerated at all?

In any event, I pledge never to respond to this type of non-Nova Roma "stuff" again. Perhaps silence is the best response to this type of baiting.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chantal G. Whittington
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:26 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Culture-Bashing

Salvete omnes:

<rant>
Just to inform anyone who is on moderated status--I
will NOT forward to this list any message whose
primary content is culture-bashing.

If you don't like some form of a culture's popular
entertainment or its politics, keep it to yourself or
express it in private email. It has no place on the
mainlist.

The purpose of this list is to discuss ancient Roman
culture and the logistics behind forming a
micronation--in a constructive and hopefully courteous
manner. We are not here to insult others.
</rant>

Sorry, folks, but the first message I read this
morning really pissed me off.

---
Renata Corva
Scriba Praetoris

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Culture-Bashing
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:53:27 -0000

---Salve Gai Basilicate:

We put it through because initially, the thread had a morsel of Roman
content. Perhaps it was myself et al who didn't utilize the best
judgement.

We are trying not to be overly stringent in the moderation of this
list, but in our quest to do this, we sometimes can't predict the
outcomes.

There is no need to apologize. The thread was allowed, but it's
being 86'd, so to speak, not because of any one person, just the
combination of the reaction and the nonRoman direction it has taken.

Hey....God Bless America .....and I've seen Benny Hill myself a few
times....love the one where he ............

Oh never mind...I'll tell you in private :)

Pompeia

In Nova-Roma@y..., "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@k...>
wrote:
> Ave
>
> I apologize for any "culture bashing" I may have participated in.
All those British TV shows I made fun of, I actually watch regularly.
>
> However, I'd like to see the same response from group members
whenever any country is "bashed" in here. It angers me beyond words
when I'm reading through the messages from Nova Roma, truly enjoying
the discourse, and someone slips in some snide remark about the U.S.,
or any other country. Why is this tolerated at all?
>
> In any event, I pledge never to respond to this type of non-Nova
Roma "stuff" again. Perhaps silence is the best response to this type
of baiting.
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
> 417 East 13th Street
> Kansas City, Missouri 64106
> (816).471.2111
> (816).510.0072(cell)
> (816).471.8412(Fax)
> The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney
privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of
the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to
deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact
information in the "reply to" field above and return the original
message to the sender. Thank you.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chantal G. Whittington
> To: nova-roma@y...
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:26 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Culture-Bashing
>
>
> Salvete omnes:
>
> <rant>
> Just to inform anyone who is on moderated status--I
> will NOT forward to this list any message whose
> primary content is culture-bashing.
>
> If you don't like some form of a culture's popular
> entertainment or its politics, keep it to yourself or
> express it in private email. It has no place on the
> mainlist.
>
> The purpose of this list is to discuss ancient Roman
> culture and the logistics behind forming a
> micronation--in a constructive and hopefully courteous
> manner. We are not here to insult others.
> </rant>
>
> Sorry, folks, but the first message I read this
> morning really pissed me off.
>
> ---
> Renata Corva
> Scriba Praetoris
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Culture-Bashing
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:30:05 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Gai Basilicate,

> It angers me beyond words when I'm reading through the messages from
> Nova Roma, truly enjoying the discourse, and someone slips in some
> snide remark about the U.S., or any other country. Why is this
> tolerated at all?

Our Constitution guarantees free speech here: "Such communications,
regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the State,
except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the Republic".

I believe the best response to an opinion you do not like is to refute
it, or, if that has proven ineffective, to ignore the speaker. Silencing
him should not be an option.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman/ Bush Post
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 06:30:07 -0700 (PDT)

Sorry about that. I was the one who forwarded the story to the list in the first place. I thought it was interesting because it showed some parallels between current policy here in America and the Roman World. I did not intend for it to become a bickering contest, just an item to think about.

I seem to have a track record for causing unrest on the main list, first with my posting of the Roman Roads/NASA shuttle posting that caused much anger and then this.

I think we should move on to happy Roman topics that will fill everyone with joy. Lets talk about pets like kittens and if Caesar owned any.

Take care,

Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman/ Bush Post
From:	"Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:03:35 -0400

Salve Marcus Bianchius Antonius,

I saw the original post, agreed with it (as a fellow American), and then
ignored the bickering responses. Now that you mention it again, I find it
interesting that a post that equates American imperialism with Roman
imperialism becomes a discussion of "Quit bashing America!" on a list that
celebrates Roman culture.

I feel it's true that America is the new Rome. While I disagree with its
current Caesar, the former Caesar, Clinton, was about as imperialist, but
not as annoying about it. I also think that America's cultural strengths are
similar to Rome's: The imperialist comparison shouldn't (and doesn't) just
run to the negative. I'm reminded of the scene in "Monty Python's Life of
Brian," which begins, "What have the Romans ever given us?" The modern
"third world" might very well ask the same question, and get similar
answers: America, as a Cultural (if not Political) Empire, has bestowed its
gifts among many throughout the world, but those gifts have also come at a
price. I can praise America for its gifts and condemn it for the tariffs it
exacts, at once. And certainly, some regions have received more gifts, while
others have received more costs, and the ethics of whether it should be
America's role to dole out the good and the bad to other countries is always
open for debate.

In short: As an American, I do feel other countries have a right to complain
about how the US treats them, just as a feel that some Roman provinces had a
right to complain about Rome; I empathize with them. I also feel that some
of the countries which *have* been bettered through their relationship with
America haven't really been fair in their treatment of America ("What have
the Romans ever given us?").

Vale bene,
Festus

---- Original Message -----
From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:30 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Roman/ Bush Post

Sorry about that. I was the one who forwarded the story to the list in the
first place. I thought it was interesting because it showed some parallels
between current policy here in America and the Roman World. I did not intend
for it to become a bickering contest, just an item to think about.

I seem to have a track record for causing unrest on the main list, first
with my posting of the Roman Roads/NASA shuttle posting that caused much
anger and then this.

I think we should move on to happy Roman topics that will fill everyone with
joy. Lets talk about pets like kittens and if Caesar owned any.

Take care,

Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Romans and cats
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:06:24 -0000

Salvete Marce et omnes,

Good idea.I found an article here which talks about Cats and Rome.
Interestingly enough a Roman was lynched by an angry mob in
Alexandria for accidently killing a cat which had always carried the
death penalty in Egypt. The mob was not apparently afraid of Roman
reprisals. Also I read domestic cats were brought to England by the
Romans. Anyway see the sight below.

http://www.oznvoo.com/catfacts.html

Regards

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Centurion M Bianchius Antonius I think we
should move on to happy Roman topics that will fill everyone with
joy. Lets talk about pets like kittens and if Caesar owned any.
>
> Take care,
>
>
>
>
> Marcus Bianchius Antonius
> Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Rome/America
From:	"Javier Augusto Gil-Ruiz Gil-Esparza" <javier_gil_ruiz@yahoo.es>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:11:33 -0000

Salvete omnes cives. Et pax, hominem

I have read the Guardian's article with interest, and seen sadly that
the potentially interesting discussion turn in to cultural bashing.

It is sad, because the matter *is* interesting. On the whole I don't
think the article is on the point, but it is food for thought anyway.

I will point out some weak argumentations:

> The most obvious similarity is overwhelming military strength. Rome
was the superpower of its
> day, boasting an army with the best training, biggest budgets and
finest equipment the world had
> seen. No-one else came close.

This, I think, is not exact. Rome was able to conquer many lands, and
went on to wage a war of defence across its borders against several
powers. Some of these powers, like the parthians, were quite able to
face Rome successfully in battle. The details of this statement are
better left to the Sodalitas Militarum group list, but I think we can
all convene in something: That waging a war to defend its own
territory from being conquered, or losing a war at all is quite a far
away possibility for America today.

> these US military bases are today's version of the imperial
colonies of old. Washington may refer
> to them as "forward deployment", says Johnson, but colonies are
what they are

I think this statement is quite exaggerated too. Yes, the military
bases give the United States more power, for sure. But their use in
one or the other occasion must still be approved by local
authorities, something out of the question in a colony. The existence
of these bases doesn't stop local authorities from having their own
armies either, as free and powerful as they are able to afford. And
in non military matters like economy or political power the American
bases aren't of such a great consequence.

The control of Rome over its colonies was total, leaving power to the
locals at township level at best. The control of America over other
countries deemed as "colonies" by the said article is in comparison
non existent.

The said article states that gladiatorial combats were propaganda "to
show the world how hard they were". My personal opinion is that this
statement is ludicrous, and gives a bad impression for the rest of
the article.

Comparisons between technologies of so different ages are also
disregardable. Any great power in history has had some kind of
technology that was relatively advanced. Information highways and
roman viae have little in common but the name.

The cultural attraction is also a common factor in all those empires
not created solely by pure military force (like the Mongol empire).
More on that later

To conclude: While I think that there are inevitable similarities
between Rome and the present America, I think it is more what
differentiates both than what makes them similar. Many of these
dissimilarities leave the United States in a better light than Rome
actually (like Human Rights). Others less so (no America bashing
here).

But while Americans are not really much more like Romans than many
other peoples, I perceive (personal opinion here) that *wanting* to
be like Romans is a distinct tendency between Americans, which is
less to be found in other countries.

Rome has been a concept generally admired by American politics, even
before the war of Independence. The Constitution of the United States
integrates and adapts many aspects which its shapers believed to be
Roman in some way. The admiration for Rome is popular in the American
army too, whose members are (my personal impression again) more keen
on seeing parallelisms with other moments of history than those of
other countries. For example, the strategic idea behind the now
famous book "Breaking the phalanx" is not more similar to the
strategies of the legions than to those of, say, Renaissance
Galleons. But the author was obviously fascinated by Rome and wanted
to draw a parallelism between the Roman and the American army. This
would probably not have happened to a military theorician of another
country.

My personal opinion is that the present United States is surprisingly
comparable to an empire of the past. Not to Rome but to Philipean
Spain and Portugal.

Militarily, the power level is similar (if you take the moment before
the Netherlands uprising). The trend in outer politics is also
similar, as it is prone to more "hawkish" solutions in both cases.

One particular parallelism is how the empires are perceived outside
of them. Both cases have propaganda machines largely ineffectual in
making the empire loved away from its borders. In both cases there is
(was) a certain "black legend", based on the exaggeration of
unpopular facts (Of gravities that are not comparable, of course!!
The Inquisition was unique in that aspect) that systematically drew
the hate of foreigners.

This didn't preclude their cultural expressions from being popular at
all! Portraits from Elizabethan England and Phillipean Spain can be
dated easily from the garments, as what was fashionable in the
Spanish court in one year was automatically fashionable in the
English court the two years after. The image of the Islamic integrist
wearing a Coca-Cola t-shirt comes to mind.

This lack of conciliation stemmed in the case of Spain from the
population having a different ideology and outlook on life. Spaniards
of that age were not allowed to study abroad (except in the Bologna
U.), and religious differences drew an insurmountable gap between the
Spanish Empire and other countries. Travels were also more infrequent
than today, so Spain was generally alien to the ideas that were
boiling in Europe at the time. Of course, today's Americans are much
more acquainted with foreign ideas, but it is quite obvious that
today's differences in political views between countries have roots
that lie in the ideology and culture.

Valete bene

Marcus Salix Saverius

P.S.:The discussion about "which culture is better" is, IMO,
senseless. American culture cannot be understood without its European
influences, and the opposite case is also true. Germany's pacifism of
today has its roots in the cultural evolution that came after the
American-led entnazifizierung, for example. There is also a lot of
exaggeration on both sides. Calling the American cultureless is about
as false as dubbing Europeans antisemites.


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Asterix et Obelix
From:	Jenny Harris <J.Harris@awgais.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:11:14 -0600

Salve,

Wow, I had no clue that there were live action movies based on the adorable
animated movies. Thank you so much, will have to look into
Purchasing them.

Vale,
Aeternia

-----Original Message-----
From: Joanne Shaver [mailto:merlinia@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 5:08 PM
To: Ben Redditt; Bheithir Mailing list; Caius Fabius;
Cassius Bradford; Correus; Guidianus Tasitus Adamantus;
mediatlanticaprovincia@yahoogroups.com; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; Quintus
Darius Macro; Rory Murray; Sara; Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia; Silvanious
Ambr.Silvanious; STEVEN PEFFLEY; Vivianna Ambr.
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Asterix et Obelix

Salvete, All! Merlinia Ambrosia sends Greetings!
2 years ago, when I was in England, I saw the 'Asterex'live
action
movie starring Gerard Depardieu. It was great.
As an Anniversary present, Carl found me the next one,
called 'Asterix
& Obelix take on Caesar'. Having the chance to see it a few
times, I
think they got a lot of the details done right. Of course,
the people
(esp. Christmas Bonus and Caesar)look uncannily like the
cartoon
characters, And the Romans wear Red, but it looks like they
used re
enactors. They go into 3 testudoes beautifully (then the
Celts make them
fly in the air...) The Pilae are Nice! there's all kinds of
armor!
The Celts look Great!
Too bad they were never released in the U.S.! My husband
has been
looking on Amazon for a tape/CD from Canada all this time.
Those of you who live where it is available, Lucky you!
Valete for now!
-M.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Rome/America
From:	"Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:25:21 -0400

Salve Marcus Salix Saverius,

You commented:
"Waging a war to defend its own territory from being conquered, or losing a
war at all is quite a far away possibility for America today."

I disagree. It is frequently said that the United States lost Vietnam;
something similar could be said about our war against al-Qaeda since, though
we've toppled the allied Taliban from power, we've failed to accomplish the
initial goal of bringing significant numbers of al-Qaeda VIPs to justice.
And our agression against al-Qaeda and the Taliban is in direct response to
the former's attempt to psychologically conquer us by destroying the World
Trade Center. Certainly, I agree the day that Canada or Mexico musters their
own forces, or lets in foreign forces, with the goal of invading America is
a long way off.

I agree with you, though, that there are certainly many differences between
Imperial Rome and modern America. Further, some similarities are either
stretches at best (comparing Roman slavery to American exploitation of Third
World labor, for instance), and others are inevitabilities of being the
singularly powerful country in the known world (an attitude of maintaining
military control at the fringes of your borders, or even outside of them).

Vale bene,
Festus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:13:59 -0700

On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 10:43:19PM +0100, me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:

> Now there's a huge difference to start with: about the only Europeans
> who'd admit to a phrase like 'beloved country' beloong to the kind of
> political parties everybody'd like to ban before they get power and
> ban everybody else! Two words I do not understand at all, at least in
> context: "American + Culture"?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
American: of or relating to the United States of America or its people
or language or culture
Culture: the knowledge and values shared by a society
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In what way does your understanding of the above terms fail to match the
dictionary definitions? I'm perfectly willing to either fill in a
knowledge gap or stomp on yet another snide remark about the US; feel
free to elucidate your meaning.

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Concordia parvae res crescunt, discordia maximae dilabuntur.
Through unity the small thing grows, through disunity the largest thing crumbles.
-- Sallust, "Jugurtha"


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman/ Bush Post
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:15:26 -0700

On Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:30:07AM -0700, Centurion M Bianchius Antonius wrote:

Salve, Marcus Bianchius Antonius -

> Sorry about that. I was the one who forwarded the story to the list in
> the first place. I thought it was interesting because it showed some
> parallels between current policy here in America and the Roman World.
> I did not intend for it to become a bickering contest, just an item to
> think about.

I don't believe that you have anything to apologize for; the fact that
someone has used your post as a springboard for their own hate-filled
agenda is not your responsibility.

I do quarrel with logic that says, `Stupid people are associated with
X, therefore X is stupid.' Stupid people are associated with everything.
-- Larry Wall

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Grammatici certant, et adhuc sub iudice lis est.
The scholars quarrel, and the case lies still undecided in the hands of the judge.
-- Horace, "Ars poetica"


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] American-bashing
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:01:36 -0700

On Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 01:20:57PM +0000, Kassandra Velez wrote:
>
> In any case, I suppose what I'm trying to say is this: Debate the
> relative merits of your countries/cultures all you like, but would you
> mind keeping it to a reasonably civil discussion of the issues at
> hand?

I'm afraid that what you ask for is not possible.

A person who begins the discussion by insulting your country has
*already* taken the discourse far beyond the level of civility.
Responding to insults in a civil fashion does nothing more than show the
offender that they may proceed as they have, without punishment.

I, personally, stand ready to stomp - with whatever amount of force I
can bring to bear - on any American-bashers here. As I see it, that
behavior has *no* place on this list, and I will make sure that the
person engaging in it understands the absolute inappropriateness of this
as hard as possible. Please note that my _initial_ response is a fairly
mild one, information-gathering more than an all-out attack - I will
double-check to make sure that I'm certain of the writer's intent,
first. However, that initial warning - and I belive that I make clear
that it *is* a warning - is all the offender gets. After that, let him
look well to his resources.

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes.
It is foolish to fear what you cannot avoid.
-- Cicero, "De officiis"


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Cultural bashing, what for?
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:25:57 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Omnes,

the "cultural war of words" betwen American and European has IMHO no ground at
all. Simply put, there is no cultural difference at all!! A cultural difference
is not about food, drinks etc... but is all about the principles that we follow
in life: freedom, raising children, healthcare etc.. On this point, all the
western world follows the same principles. Our Constitutions are basically the
same and have their roots in the XVIII century.
For those that still believe that there is still a difference and that one
culture is bigger, greater or stronger that the other one, let me give you some
examples:
Most of the wineries in France (Bordeaux and Champagne), one of the prides of
Europe, are owned by American people (and some Japanese...)
Universal Studio, one of the prides of the US (and big "US culture" exporter)
is owned by Vivendi Universal, a French company...
The US army, by all means the stronger in the World, would never go far or long
without the European financing.
And I could go on with the same kind of examples.
All of this to explain that we should forget about those "war of words" and
realize that we live in the same world, the same culture and that we face the
same problems...and that we have the same Roman cultural heritage!!

Valete,

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] When nobody answers (was: Desperate for a greek song's lyrics)
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:39:31 -0000

AVE SOROR VALERIA CONSTANTINA IVLIANA

After reading your message, I am very interested in these lyrics
too.
Unfortunately I have no information on this matter, but I hope that
somebody can help us.

I also would like to tell you something that could even be useful for
other citizens (in particular the new ones).

People often post here some question asking for Roman related
information (or even "barbarian" information sometimes).
In this Forum they often receive an answer, sometimes they even
receive so many answers that it would be possible for them to publish
a book!

Unfortunately, they sometimes don't get any response: they post their
question (or even simple comments) and nobody replies. Don't worry.
Do not feel offended. They are not ignoring your message.
We are a lot of people, with a lot of different knowledges, but there
will always be something that nobody among us knows.
In such cases, nobody knows the right answer, and that is way you
don't see a reply on this Mailing List.

However, perhaps you could do something: I for one am absolutely
ignorant about the Anastenaria, this fire-walking ritual, and the
Anastarides. Why are they connected to Emperor Constantine? I would
be very interested in knowing more about it, and maybe you could post
here a message with some information.

I am sure that many other citizens would appreciate such a post, and
it could even induce them to make a stronger research as to the
information you actually need!

OPTIME VALE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Legatvs Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs
Scriba Aedilis Plebis Cicatricis

> Does anybody know the ode "Mikro Kostantinos" that is sang in the
> Anastenaria, the fire-walking ritual? I'm terribly curious about
it.
> Evidently it refers to the Emperor Constantine the Great because
> the Anastenarides believe that his spirit comes to possess them
during
> the mystic crossing. And they carry holy icons with his image. The
strange
> thing is that "mikro". I'd love to know if it's based on a legend
of
> Constantine's childhood.
>
> Thank you very much!!!
>
> Valeria Constantinia Iuliana.
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Fotos: la forma más fácil de compartir e imprimir fotos.
> http://photos.msn.es/support/worldwide.aspx


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Rome Compared to Others
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:10:01 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

Other than internal government structures and the architecture in
Washington I really do not see a very strong comparison between
modern day US and Rome. As I mentioned in a pervious posting, the
British Empire was much closer to Rome. First she had many colonies
in very strange lands all over the world. Like the Romans the
British , to protect their trading interests would send in military
advisors and weapons to sure up some leader that was having internal
problems with warring factions in his territory. If the threats to
British interests were not subdued or contained modern legions
(British troops) were sent in to help quell the problems. Like the
Romans, when the British saw the people could not govern themselves
they sent a governor and set up a system of British common law in
those countries as well as a civil service. One could see some
similarities in the gradual Roman take over of Judea and the British
take over of India. Though more symbolic than Ancient Rome, Queen
Victoria did have the title, Emperess Of India, Ireland, etc. There
was a Pax Britannia in that the British often kept warring factions
(as we see in former colonies today) from each other's throats. For
example some of my East Indian (Sikh, Hindu) and Islamic friends
often told me (after several beer) that other than national pride and
self respect thing, life was often more fair and peaceful for all
groups under the British Empire. I know many would argue on that
point, there were many abuses, betryals, deciets etc. but there are
probably some truths to it.

The main difference with Britain was their decolonization. Unlike
Rome they realized when they were really not wanted anymore and it
would cost more to keep the colony than extract from it, they left on
the crest of the wave without much violence as compared to other
colonies in the world. I guess the exsistance of the Commonwealth
today shows this point. Not too many hard feelings.

For the reasons above I say the comparison of Rome to Britain is far
more closer than America to Rome. Any thoughts on this matter?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: When nobody answers (was: Desperate for a greek song's lyrics)
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:30:48 -0000

Salvete Mani et Valeria,

I for one, saw your posting late last night. I spent an hour checking
the websites about the Greek fire dances. I found two explaining the
history of the icons in the burning church, St. Helena, Constantine
etc, even a picture with Quick Time music of the dance. Your question
though is where to find the words for the dancing song "Miklo
Constantine". So far I have not been able to find them anywhere yet
and cannot give you that data now. I even checked out Greek music
CD's; nothing yet.I'll keep my eyes open for you as others are
probably doing. I am working as scribe for Manius Constantinus now so
you can be sure I am getting lots of practice surfing the net and
researching things.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@y...>
wrote:
> > I am sure that many other citizens would appreciate such a post,
and
> it could even induce them to make a stronger research as to the
> information you actually need!
>
> OPTIME VALE
> MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
> Legatvs Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
> Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs
> Scriba Aedilis Plebis Cicatricis
>
>
>
> > Does anybody know the ode "Mikro Kostantinos" that is sang in the
> > Anastenaria, the fire-walking ritual? I'm terribly curious about
> it.
> > Evidently it refers to the Emperor Constantine the Great because
> > the Anastenarides believe that his spirit comes to possess them
> during
> > the mystic crossing. And they carry holy icons with his image.
The
> strange
> > thing is that "mikro". I'd love to know if it's based on a legend
> of
> > Constantine's childhood.
> >
> > Thank you very much!!!
> >
> > Valeria Constantinia Iuliana.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Fotos: la forma más fácil de compartir e imprimir fotos.
> > http://photos.msn.es/support/worldwide.aspx


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asterix et Obelix
From:	tekwkp@attbi.com
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:45:47 +0000

Salve,

Try this database: www//:

imdb.com

Iyt is a comprehensive database for movies,
documentaries, cienma, television, et al. Through it,
I've found several 'things' that have been unavailable,
or thought to be lost.

Vale,

L. Cornelius Drusus
> ---Salve Merlinia:
>
> We were having a discussion about that at Fort Malden this year. Our
> Legatus of Nova Gallia Canada Orientalis, Marcus Darius Firmitus has
> seen the animations. They are priceless. Now he lives in Ottawa,
> very close to Quebec City. Now I don't know if he can access tapes
> of these or if he sees them on syndicated TV. I believe he has seen
> the movie too.
>
> I have never seen them, myself.
>
> I will drop a note to him and see if maybe some films are available
> in VHS or DVD in Quebec. I would imagine they might be English
> subtitles, but I get the impression most of the hilarity is in the
> animations.
>
> I'll let you know who I make out. Maybe we can see some of them at
> our next Provincia gathering.
>
> For those who just 'tuned in', "Asterex" centers around a very
> small,but tenacious part of Gaul that Caesar can't get his hand on,
> and they fight somewhat metaphysically.
>
> Thanks for bringing this up, Merlinia. I hope you are keeping well.
> And you always bring up very interesting threads.
>
> Bene vale,
> Pompeia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@y..., Joanne Shaver <merlinia@c...> wrote:
> > Salvete, All! Merlinia Ambrosia sends Greetings!
> > 2 years ago, when I was in England, I saw the 'Asterex'live action
> > movie starring Gerard Depardieu. It was great.
> > As an Anniversary present, Carl found me the next one,
> called 'Asterix
> > & Obelix take on Caesar'. Having the chance to see it a few times, I
> > think they got a lot of the details done right. Of course, the
> people
> > (esp. Christmas Bonus and Caesar)look uncannily like the cartoon
> > characters, And the Romans wear Red, but it looks like they used re
> > enactors. They go into 3 testudoes beautifully (then the Celts make
> them
> > fly in the air...) The Pilae are Nice! there's all kinds of armor!
> > The Celts look Great!
> > Too bad they were never released in the U.S.! My husband has been
> > looking on Amazon for a tape/CD from Canada all this time.
> > Those of you who live where it is available, Lucky you!
> > Valete for now!
> > -M.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asterix et Obelix
From:	"Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:52:31 -0400

Salvete omnibus,

IMDB indicates that Asterix and Obelix vs. Caesar is only available on DVD in French and German (http://us.imdb.com/DVD?0133385), while Asterix and Obelix: The Cleopatra Mission isn't available at all.

Vale bene,
Festus

----- Original Message -----
From: tekwkp@attbi.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asterix et Obelix

Salve,

Try this database: www//:

imdb.com

Iyt is a comprehensive database for movies,
documentaries, cienma, television, et al. Through it,
I've found several 'things' that have been unavailable,
or thought to be lost.

Vale,

L. Cornelius Drusus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asterix et Obelix
From:	"Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:52:31 -0400


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Rome Compared to Others
From:	labienus@texas.net
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:16:00 US/Central

Salve Quinte Lani omnesque

> First she had many colonies in very strange lands all over the
> world.

Agreed. The US was far behind the curve during the colonial period, for
obvious reasons.

> Like the Romans the British , to protect their trading interests would
> send in military advisors and weapons to sure up some leader that was
> having internal problems with warring factions in his territory.

This is as the US has done, and in many cases is doing, in Nicaragua, El
Salvador, Colombia, Panama, Iraq, Turkey, Egypt, Israel, Iran, Afghanistan,
Indonesia, and others.

> If the threats to British interests were not subdued or contained
> modern legions (British troops) were sent in to help quell the
> problems.

This is in part what US Special Forces are for. It is what is happening in
Indonesia with joint exercises against Abu Sayyaf and other indigenous rebel
groups right now. There are plenty of US servicemen and women operating in
Colombia right now.

I do agree that these operations fall far short of a full-fledged military
invasion, but they are essentially what you describe in the quoted sentence
above.

> Like the Romans, when the British saw the people could not govern
> themselves they sent a governor and set up a system of British common
> law in those countries as well as a civil service.

And here is what I see as the primary difference between the modern US and
ancient Rome (as well as the British Empire): the US limits itself to economic,
political, and mostly covert military pressure to protect and promote its
interests in the world. While the US does its best to promote regimes that are
friendly to it and remove regimes which are not (e.g. the possible US
involvement in the last Venezuelan coup attempt), the US does not resort to
imposing an overt US presence in the form of a governing body in those few
countries which it actually conquers. Instead, it prefers to oversee the
creation of an indigenous authority which is based upon Western principles of
democratic (I use that word in its loosest sense here) rule, primarily because
it can then claim to have followed the will of the conquered people.

All that aside, while I do think that the US today is headed toward empire, I
do not think that the comparison with Rome is terribly apt. It's obviously
used because the idea of the Roman Empire is fairly universal and resonant, and
because it allows the author in question to illustrate fairly complex points
via the shorthand of shared historical icons. Also, because the Roman Empire
is generally seen as having been paternalistic and conservative, it allows
authors to obliquely promote or decry paternalistic conservatism in the US when
they write their articles.

> For the reasons above I say the comparison of Rome to Britain is far
> more closer than America to Rome. Any thoughts on this matter?

I certainly agree that the Roman and British Empires were closer than the Roman
and US Empires are ever likely to be, assuming that the US is capable of
maintaining both an empire and a reasonably open republican form of
government. I also generally agree that the term empire is not necessarily the
best word to apply to worldwide US influence at the moment.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] culture bashing
From:	Arnamentia Aurelia <arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:45:47 -0700 (PDT)

Aren't we all drawn together by this list out of a
commong interest in Roman culture? Let's get back to
that, and cut out all these mean spirited, insulting
rants. This community is better than that.

Please.

Arnamentia Aurelia

Original Message: 16
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:12:53 -0500
From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola"
<jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman
empire

"Two words I do not understand at all, at least in
context: "American +
Culture"?"

How much more more of this hackeneyed inane vomit must
I suffer? Maybe
you don't understand because:

1. You don't want to;
2. You're too busy watching reruns of "Two Fat
Ladies", "Nigella
Bites", and "Absolutely Fabulous" to care;
3. You're incapable of understanding, i.e.
just-plain-stupid.

Explain English culture to me, hmm? Is it your great
wines? Your great
chefs? Your liberal, fun, free wheeling, open culture
that brought us
the Jallianwala Bagh tragedy, WWI, WWII, Neville
Chamberlain, and Tony
Blair?

Please, pop in a Benny Hill tape, gorge yourself on
some kidney pie or
other grotesque organ meat dish, while you let your
government strip
you of your rights as your country becomes a bunch of
complacent Utopian
socialist cattle.

Chim Chim cheroo

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New Citizen
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:27:32 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I would like to introduce you to the newest member of the Gens Minucia:

Horatia Minucia Caesar

who has just been made a citizen of Nova Roma. Please welcome her into
Nova Roma, and extend to her all of the warmth and encouragement at your
command.

I am very impressed by the swift and decisive action of the Censors in
this case. I recieved the application of this lady only a day or so
ago, and I, of course, responded to her request immediately, asking to
know something of her background. She responded to my inquiry and the
same day I approved her entrance into the Gens Minucia, and this moning
I recieved a message that she has been confirmed as a citizen.

So, I say to the Censors of Nova Roma ----- Well Done!!!!! In my
estimation, a wait of less than two days from reciept of application to
the Gens Leader, until confirmation of citizenship in Nova Roma is an
excellent response, indicating much thought and work behind the scenes
to effect such efficient results.

As Paterfamilius of the Gens Minucia, I thank you for your prompt and
well administered actions.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Resignation
From:	"Gary E. McGrath" <gary65@optonline.net>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:02:40 -0000

Fellow Senators and Citizens of Nova Roma:

I will keep this short and to the point.
I have come to a point in my life where I have begun to look
critically into what may be called my "life stance/philosophy of
life" and have come to the simple conclusion that, as blunt as some
of you may think this sounds, there is no "God", nor "Gods"
and/or "Goddesses' ", "demons" et cetera. Quite frankly in my humble
opinion, religion, of any ilk, is the "bane" of man's existence.
More to the point as regards NR and my position as Senator, I
can no longer, in good conscience, support paragraph VI. a. of the NR
Constitution. To even give tacit approval of any religion, as
is "required" in the NR Constitution, i.e.- "All . . . Senators, as
officers of the State, shall be required to publicly show respect for
the Religio Romana. . . Senators and citizens need not be
practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any
activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods. . .", is
no longer in keeping with my philosophy of life.
Therefore, effective immediately, I hereby resign as Senator
and Citizen of Nova Roma.

Respectfully,
Gary E. McGrath
formerly -- Marcus Iunius Iulianus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Noviodunus {WAS Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire}
From:	"radams36" <radams36@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:23:15 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salvete Gai et omnes,
>
> I agree about Nostradamus. As we say hind sight is 20/20. His
> predictions were hazy and many people over the last hundred years
> force fit later historical occurances into his verses in my
opinion.
> Predictions are at best very vague and general, not specific; not
one
> prophet or Pyschic predicted the destruction of specific buildings
on
> 9-11 for example as has been pointed out. Now let me show you my
> prophetic skills so all shall be in awe. I predict some more
sucide
> bombings in Isreal in the next 3 months, I see a major plane crash
> happening in Europe within the next year, an earthquake in the
Pacfic
> rim, military turmoil in Africa,a change of government in Iraq
within
> the next 1 - 5 years and a big divorce of a hollywood celebrity in
> the next few months.
>
> Regards
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Look out, Jeanne Dixon, Kreskin, and Criswell! Well-made points,
Paulinus.

Vale,

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New Citizen
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:33:48 -0000

---Ave Minucia!

Welcome to the republic. I am working on getting you subscribed to
the Militarium and Egressus lists.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

A former tribune of Nova Roma once said: The only silly question is
the one that is not asked', so don't ever feel that you are
asking 'something you should know' :)

Bene vale, and again, a warm welcome.

Pompeia Cornelia
Praetor

In Nova-Roma@y..., jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> I would like to introduce you to the newest member of the Gens
Minucia:
>
> Horatia Minucia Caesar
>
> who has just been made a citizen of Nova Roma. Please welcome her
into
> Nova Roma, and extend to her all of the warmth and encouragement at
your
> command.
>
> I am very impressed by the swift and decisive action of the Censors
in
> this case. I recieved the application of this lady only a day or so
> ago, and I, of course, responded to her request immediately, asking
to
> know something of her background. She responded to my inquiry and
the
> same day I approved her entrance into the Gens Minucia, and this
moning
> I recieved a message that she has been confirmed as a citizen.
>
> So, I say to the Censors of Nova Roma ----- Well Done!!!!! In my
> estimation, a wait of less than two days from reciept of
application to
> the Gens Leader, until confirmation of citizenship in Nova Roma is
an
> excellent response, indicating much thought and work behind the
scenes
> to effect such efficient results.
>
> As Paterfamilius of the Gens Minucia, I thank you for your prompt
and
> well administered actions.
>
> Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:35:50 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Marce Iuni,

> Quite frankly in my humble opinion, religion, of any ilk, is the
> "bane" of man's existence.

Large-scale organized religion is a bane, I'd agree; but, practiced
as individuals, any religion can bring hope and guide persons to
virtuous behaviour.

> Therefore, effective immediately, I hereby resign as Senator
> and Citizen of Nova Roma.

It is always sad to see any citizen leave, particularly a Senator
and magistrate who has been with us for years.

I wish you well in your future endeavours.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:58:18 -0000

Salve Marce,

Are you positive you really need to do this? You know better than I
that your own beliefs are your personal business in Nova Roma. There
are many religions and fringe groups of people that I do not believe
in or even dislike to a point but I have no problem protecting their
rights to exsist and not go out of my way to trounce on them or be
offensive. Even some of them would fight for my rights and beliefs if
necessary. Its a long climb here to becoming a senator and as Senator
Marcus Octavius Germanicus pointed out its a sad day for all of us
when someone with your background leaves. We all lose. Please
consider my points before resigning but no matter you decide I wish
you the best and thank you for helping to contribute to the growth of
Nova Roma.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus (relatively new citizen)
Scriba Praefecti Africa Septentrionalis

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Gary E. McGrath" <gary65@o...> wrote:
> Fellow Senators and Citizens of Nova Roma:
>
> .
> Therefore, effective immediately, I hereby resign as Senator
> and Citizen of Nova Roma.
>
>
> Respectfully,
> Gary E. McGrath
> formerly -- Marcus Iunius Iulianus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:27:33 +0200

Fellow Senator!

It is with sadnesss I read about your resignation!

Of course I respect your point of view! But I would like to
(theoretically) point out to You that as far as I understand there
were quite a number of Romans in Roma Antiqua that were atheists and
they managed to be magistrates and live a public life. If they could
do it maybe those who don't like the rules about the oath in Nova
Roma could do it? This is just a theoretical question and in no way
meant as a "advise".

I have heard other good citizens leave Nova Roma just because of the
oath. Maybe we should create a new oath or an alternative one? Still
I am aware that we can't please everybody, but it would be nice if we
could keep those who really love Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua in
principle, but have a problem with details.

> I will keep this short and to the point.
> I have come to a point in my life where I have begun to look
>critically into what may be called my "life stance/philosophy of
>life" and have come to the simple conclusion that, as blunt as some
>of you may think this sounds, there is no "God", nor "Gods"
>and/or "Goddesses' ", "demons" et cetera. Quite frankly in my humble
>opinion, religion, of any ilk, is the "bane" of man's existence.
> More to the point as regards NR and my position as Senator, I
>can no longer, in good conscience, support paragraph VI. a. of the NR
>Constitution. To even give tacit approval of any religion, as
>is "required" in the NR Constitution, i.e.- "All . . . Senators, as
>officers of the State, shall be required to publicly show respect for
>the Religio Romana. . . Senators and citizens need not be
>practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any
>activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods. . .", is
>no longer in keeping with my philosophy of life.
> Therefore, effective immediately, I hereby resign as Senator
>and Citizen of Nova Roma.
>
>
>Respectfully,
>Gary E. McGrath
>formerly -- Marcus Iunius Iulianus
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"

************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Rome/America
From:	"radams36" <radams36@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:49:39 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Javier Augusto Gil-Ruiz Gil-Esparza"
<javier_gil_ruiz@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes cives. Et pax, hominem
(SNIP)
> One particular parallelism is how the empires are perceived
outside
> of them. Both cases have propaganda machines largely ineffectual
in
> making the empire loved away from its borders. In both cases there
is
> (was) a certain "black legend", based on the exaggeration of
> unpopular facts (Of gravities that are not comparable, of course!!
> The Inquisition was unique in that aspect) that systematically
drew
> the hate of foreigners.
>
> This didn't preclude their cultural expressions from being popular
at
> all! Portraits from Elizabethan England and Phillipean Spain can
be
> dated easily from the garments, as what was fashionable in the
> Spanish court in one year was automatically fashionable in the
> English court the two years after. The image of the Islamic
integrist
> wearing a Coca-Cola t-shirt comes to mind.
>
> This lack of conciliation stemmed in the case of Spain from the
> population having a different ideology and outlook on life.
Spaniards
> of that age were not allowed to study abroad (except in the
Bologna
> U.), and religious differences drew an insurmountable gap between
the
> Spanish Empire and other countries. Travels were also more
infrequent
> than today, so Spain was generally alien to the ideas that were
> boiling in Europe at the time. Of course, today's Americans are
much
> more acquainted with foreign ideas, but it is quite obvious that
> today's differences in political views between countries have
roots
> that lie in the ideology and culture.
>
> Valete bene
>
> Marcus Salix Saverius
>
>
> P.S.:The discussion about "which culture is better" is, IMO,
> senseless. American culture cannot be understood without its
European
> influences, and the opposite case is also true. Germany's pacifism
of
> today has its roots in the cultural evolution that came after the
> American-led entnazifizierung, for example. There is also a lot of
> exaggeration on both sides. Calling the American cultureless is
about
> as false as dubbing Europeans antisemites.

Salve, amice!

Once more, I am impressed and pleased by thoughtful, intelligent
posts such as yours and that of my friend, Marcus Minucius Audens.
Your essay was well thought out and very, very well written. Your
eloquent rebuttal and reflections could hardly be added on to by
myself, and stand in stark contrast to some of the earlier posts.

While I empathize with anyone reacting to posts that are offensive
because they insult one's nation, or are snide and unctious in tone,
I have learned the hard way that it's best to grit your teeth
and 'ignore the troll'. Trolls are notoriously quick to get bored if
they can't get a rise, aren't they?

Vale bene!

Rufus Iulius Paleologus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
From:	MLCRASSVS@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:52:00 EDT

MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS SENATORI MARCO IULIO IULIANO S.P.D.

AVE,

I am moved to break a self-imposed silence (ahead of my citizenship approval)
and would just like to echo the sentiments of QVINTVS LANIVS PAVLINVS and
sincerely ask you to reconsider your decision.

Your view of religion PER SE is, of course, a deeply personal conviction
which you are perfectly entitled to hold, and I do not doubt that you have
come to your view sincerely. While I salute your integrity, you do not need
me to tell you that Rome in antiquity was big enough to accomodate citizens
of all religions and none - that was part of the greatness of Rome and still
is. I have no doubt that New Rome is the same.

What should be sufficient is to love Rome and work to see her grow once more
into that which inspired the world.

To have traversed the CVRSVS HONORVM and reach Senator is an achievement not
to be thrown away lightly. Rome certainly needs her Senators, cives and you.

I appreciate you do not know me but propective citizens rely on the
experience of the City Fathers - I urge you to please think again.

TVVS IN SODOLICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] ROMAN CITIZENSHIP APPROVED!!
From:	"MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS" <MLCRASSVS@aol.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:25:05 -0000

MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS QUIRITIBVS S.P.D.

AVETE PATRES CONSRIPTI ET CIVES AB ROMA

Conscript Fathers, citizens of Rome it is with the utmost pleasure,
joy and pride that I report my citizenship and formal acceptance into
this august company, this day a.d. VII Kal. Oct. MMDLV ab urbe
condita. May the gods favour me and honour you. My thanks go to our
venerable Consul, MARCVS OCTAVIVS GERMANICVS and illustrious
CENSORES LUCIVS EQVITIVS CINCINNATVS ET CAIVS FLAVIUS DIOCLETIANVS
for their help and encouragement.

For my part I swear to uphold the LEGES REI PVBLICAE ROMANAE and
shall try to be a model Roman citizen and follow the VIA ROMANA,
cultivating the virtues of DIGNITAS, VERITAS, FIDELITAS ET LIBERTAS.

I also assume the not inconsiderable mantle of Paterfamilias for the
Gens. CALIDIA and will sincerely discharge my responsibilities in
this regard. The revival of this Gens. is especially apposite since
it was a NOMEN which featured in Roma Antiqua particularly during the
Republican period, with my namesake serving as Praetor in 697 auc (57
BCE). It is my fervent desire that this gens shall grow and flourish
and I call upon great IUPPITER to oversee this noble endeavour.

To finish, I hope all future participation shall be as fruitful,
enjoyable and happy as today.

VALETE

M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS
PATERFAMILIAS
CIVIS NOVAE ROMAE

TVVS IN SODILICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE

"MORIBVS ANTIQVIS RES STAT ROMANA VIRISQVE"

VERITAS LVX MEA

ANNO CONSVLATVS MARCI OCTAVII GERMANICII ET LUCI CORNELII SULLAE
FELICI (II)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Back up
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:56:16 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
>
>Here is one site to visit about Nostradamus that better enchances my
>point of view.
>
>
There was an excellent book on Nostradamus by one of a rare breed who do not interest themselves in him enough: a mediaeval French history specialist. Her version reads that (1) He was writing for a mindset almost opposite to ours: magic was credible, common sense if it defied common belief dangerous (Compare Stalin's reaction to being told that Hitler had invaded); (2) Even if he'd known about it, he didn't give one little damn about the Center of The World across the Atlantic: his world was French, he cared about France and even more so about Provence, which was then in practice a separate nation; (3) Some things cannot be said, such as 'The Turks have better organisation and weapons and unless Christians stop bickering they'll wipe the floor with us, East first, west to come". East they did, West not quite as succesfull.
So this is her version of Michel de Nostre Dame: he is a a genius of the age, he writes to other geniusses throughout Christendom and beyond. Being a magician, he has total scepticism toward the 'supernatural'; it is merely the 'superknown' controllable by him. He therefore also does not believe that God being on Our Side will help a lot against better organisation on Their Side. The Inquisition would not like that. (Note, Provence was the centre of Knights Templars, Cathari and various other mystic 'heresies' all put down very bloodily in an effort to exert Parisian control over it).
As prophecy (which he may have believed it was) he draws up quatrains coded for the next Kings of Provence and France, mainly warning of events in the East of which he knows more than most because (1) he has equally intelligent sceptical contacts throughout the Mediterranean (including on the Muslim side) (2) he is now bnlinded by religious faith.
Her findings were that apart from certain far future but very conventional quatrains, all his predictions did occur within 100 years. For the most part they are forgotten battles of little interest even to Anglo-American historians because they were extremely significant at that time in that place, to Provençals and French and to nobody else.
He lived during the Turkish conquest of Constantinople. In one sense that means nothing to the West. In another, it is psychologically everything: there was the pretence of an Emperor even if his church was excommunicated and nobody paid him attention. There had always been an Emperor for nearly 1500 years. Now there wasn't. The Renaissance was exploding and nation states exploding with it, big ones like France and Spain centralising, little ones like Savoy and Piedmont establishing themselves - Provence lay between most of them.
I believe she got it right: prediction was a practical art, not something for generations far to come. He would use *all* intelligence, in the military, common and (today) disbelieved sense to forecast a likely future where success might reward his relatives if not himself. He would not be rewarded for telling the King what might happen in 500 years' time to somebody else.
So I take it there is code but it is code to hide the unaccepted rational as the acceptable irrational and it all happened so long ago that it's been forgotten. Just as Isaiah's 'prophesy' about his King's pregnant new wife and the Assyrian threat was forgotten and reworked to any Messiah you like.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:07:48 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>Explain English culture to me, hmm? Is it your great wines? Your great chefs? Your liberal, fun, free wheeling, open culture that brought us the Jallianwala Bagh tragedy, WWI, WWII, Neville Chamberlain, and Tony Blair?
>
I think Hitler, a favourite of 'freedom-loving' Americans like Henry Ford and William Hearst had something to do with WW2 and the Kaiser with WW1.
Actually, I live in Ireland, where England is generally regarded as teetering on the Fascist right. Some people actually consider helping each other instead of doing each other down a positive thing. Though virtually banned as sexist, I quite enjoy laughing at Benny Hill as typifying a certain English mixture of prudery and prurience. However, my British passport belies a French geographical origin. I will accept that America has contributed somewhat to world cuisine: Vichysoisse, Gumbo, Grilled Red Snapper: excellent. One might count Naom Chomsky among the world's leading intellects as well.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

"If I am not for myself, who will be? But if I am only for myself, what am I?" - The Rabbi Hillel

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Asterix et Obelix
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:59:09 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Marilde Goliardi Perdomo <gmarilde@hotmail.com>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date : 25 September 2002 02:01:56
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Asterix et Obelix

>Pious Iuppiter!!! I have always felt that those adventures of Asterix and
>Obelix are insulting. As a Roman I can't stand this kind of mockery.
>Uhhh...had to say that.
>
>Valeria Constantinia Iuliana.
>
Merciful gods! Though Romans were not noted for a sense of humour. Does anyone agree that according to the map, Asterix lives in St. Malo, 'La cité corsaire', still robbing all who pass near or through in defiance of any law known to France or Europe?
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:14:47 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
>“Despite their “sexy“ accents, British boys just do not make the grade compared with their American counterparts. That is the considered verdict of Mary-Catherine Lader, the 15-year-old daughter of the US ambassador to London. Miss Lader made her opinions known in an article which appeared in Tatler magazine. She said that in the three years she has been in London she has come to the conclusion “British boys really suck“. “ For more insight into the future of Britain, read: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/873862.stm

I don't put a lot of store on teenage opinion. However, if it must get to that level, the opinion of young Irish women on working in New York is that they have to be prostitutes. They found friendliness between the sexes impossible and frowned upon, a drink and flirtation with men reduced to a formal 'date' where he proudly displays the bulge in his pants - the wallet that is - and where she is regarded as some sort of slut if she cares about any human emotional or sexual relationship instead of taking him for as much money as she can against the suggested offer of sex, but please no personal involvement. Their opinion was that the liberation of the last ten Irish years and since the 60s elsewhere had just collapsed back to guys & dolls. And they didn't like being treated like dolls.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:44:38 -0400

I hate to see anyone leave any organization. However, I feel that - as a nation - it is paramount for the identity (as well as spiritual wellbeing) to maintain an interwoven and conjoined relationship with the Nova Roma Pontifical/Augur College. I acknowledge that there are Christians and Athiests within Nova Roma, and I personally do not have a problem with your participation, and activity, however, I feel that the clause in the Oath for the Gods of Rome is of dire importance and should not be eliminated.

Additionally, I am sure there were atheists active within ancient Rome -- I don't question that. However, they surely took oaths of office. If they did not take thier oath seriously, then they will have had to answer to that. I have respect for Gary for admitting that he cannot live by the oath, and respect his need to leave.

He said he could not live up to his oath. Then it is time for him to move on. Oaths are important. I have seen too many people NOT take oaths seriously, its nice to see someone take one seriously - and acknowledge when they cannot live up to its standards.

These are just my thoughts.

G. Cassius Athanasius
(Athanasios)

In a message dated Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:27:33 +0200, christer.edling@telia.com writes:

>
>
>
> Fellow Senator!
>
> It is with sadnesss I read about your resignation!
>
> Of course I respect your point of view! But I would like to
> (theoretically) point out to You that as far as I understand there
> were quite a number of Romans in Roma Antiqua that were atheists and
> they managed to be magistrates and live a public life. If they could
> do it maybe those who don't like the rules about the oath in Nova
> Roma could do it? This is just a theoretical question and in no way
> meant as a "advise".
>
> I have heard other good citizens leave Nova Roma just because of the
> oath. Maybe we should create a new oath or an alternative one? Still
> I am aware that we can't please everybody, but it would be nice if we
> could keep those who really love Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua in
> principle, but have a problem with details.
>
> > I will keep this short and to the point.
> > I have come to a point in my life where I have begun to look
> >critically into what may be called my "life stance/philosophy of
> >life" and have come to the simple conclusion that, as blunt as some
> >of you may think this sounds, there is no "God", nor "Gods"
> >and/or "Goddesses' ", "demons" et cetera. Quite frankly in my humble
> >opinion, religion, of any ilk, is the "bane" of man's existence.
> > More to the point as regards NR and my position as Senator, I
> >can no longer, in good conscience, support paragraph VI. a. of the NR
> >Constitution. To even give tacit approval of any religion, as
> >is "required" in the NR Constitution, i.e.- "All . . . Senators, as
> >officers of the State, shall be required to publicly show respect for
> >the Religio Romana. . . Senators and citizens need not be
> >practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any
> >activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods. . .", is
> >no longer in keeping with my philosophy of life.
> > Therefore, effective immediately, I hereby resign as Senator
> >and Citizen of Nova Roma.
> >
> >
> >Respectfully,
> >Gary E. McGrath
> >formerly -- Marcus Iunius Iulianus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Senate results
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:26:51 -0300 (ART)

Salvete Omnes

Senate voting results, 25 sept 2755.

The Senate has finished its latest session, and the
votes have been tallied, as below.
The following 15 Senatores cast votes. They are
referred to below by their initials, and are listed in
alphabetical order by nomen:

Marcus Arminius Maior (MAM)
Marcus Cassius Julianus (MCJ)
Patricia Cassia (PC)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (LCSF)
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo (PCS)
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus (LEC)
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (CFQ)
Quintus Fabius Maximus (QFM)
Caius Flavius Diocletianus (CFD)
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus (DIPI)
Titus Labienus Fortunatus (TLF)
Gaius Marius Merullus (GMM)
Marcus Minucius Audens (MMA)
Marcus Octavius Germanicus (MOG)
Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus (LSAO)

Senator Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonius
(AICPM) forwarded his proxy to Senator Marcus Minucius
Audens.

The following senators did not vote:

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Marcus Iunius Iulianus
Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
Gaius Tullius Triumphius Cicero

"UTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item,
"ANTIQUO" or "NEGAT" is a vote against, and "ABSTINEO"
is an abstention.

The items for consideration are as follows:

-----

ITEM I. Appointment of Aurelia Iulia Pulchra as
Italian translator.
PASSED Unanimously: Uti Rogas, 16; Negat, 0; Abstineo,
0.

MAM: UTI ROGAS.
MCJ: UTI ROGAS. I feel that Aurelia Iulia Pulchra has
shown herself to be both skilled and dedicated, and I
believe she will do a fine job as Italian Translator.
PC: UTI ROGAS.
LCSF: UTI ROGAS.
PCS: UTI ROGAS.
LEC: UTI ROGAS.
CFQ: Uti Rogas. I am happy that we still get people
willing to hard and "dirty" work
for Nova Roma.
QFM: UTI ROGAS.
CFD: UTI ROGAS.
AICPM: UTI ROGAS.
DIPI: UTI ROGAS.
TLF: UTI ROGAS.
GMM: UTI ROGAS.
MMA: UTI ROGAS.
MOG: UTI ROGAS.
LSAO: UTI ROGAS.

- Citizen Aurelia Iulia Pulchra is now the official
Italian Interpreter (Translator).

ITEM II. Preliminary approval to take Cassius/Labienus
gens reform proposal to Comitia Centuriata.
VETOED by Consul L. Cornelius Sulla, voting
prohibited.

MCJ: It is unfortunate that this veto has been
interposed. This issue has been a periodic problem for
over two years now, and must be decided. We cannot
ignore this issue forever.

LEC: Too bad we can't vote now. Most of the Senate
wants a vote, and the outcome would be unclear. Gens
reform needs to be addressed if Nova Roma is to
experience continued healthy growth. Right now we are
being stunted by the inability of the Censores to
approve those applications to gens whose
"Paterfamilias" has either closed their gens or
refuse/neglect to respond to pending application. The
constitution needs to be adjusted to allow prospective
citizens the same chance to have the nomen they desire
as those who happened to find Nova Roma somewhat
earlier.

QFM: I still feel this is a premature action do be
done at the end of a Consulship. We have not even
carried out the Census yet. I believe once that is
done, we will be in a better position to carry out the
Gens dissolution.

MMA: It is unfortunate that the Jr. Consul has taken
upon himself to decide for the entire Senate, what
they shall vote upon and what they shall not. The
whole question of Gens Reform should be one which is
discussed openly, and be available to all for thier
determinations and
thier vote. Unfortunate indeed, when a Consul Veto is
used to defeat such!!

ITEM III. Restructure annual membership fees to be
proportional to national per capita GDP.
[ As the author of Item III, I now recommend you vote
AGAINST it; we can put forth a slightly adjusted
version with better numbers later. Cos. M. Octavius
Germanicus. ]
NOT PASSED: Uti Rogas, 0; Negat, 16; Abstineo, 0.

MAM: UTI ROGAS.
MCJ: ANTIQVO, as per the authors wishes. I expect that
this item will be adjusted and presented again in the
next Senate vote.
PC: ANTIQUO.
LCSF: ANTIQUO.
PCS: NEGAT. As has been revealed...the current
proposal as read is not quite as equitable as one
might think on first view. I am hoping that this can
be adjusted by the end of the year.
LEC: ANTIQUO.
CFQ: ANTIQUO. I would have liked to see the proposal
withdrawn, but as it is now I will vote against
QFM: ANTIQUO. The proposal needs more work. To vote
now, would mean fixing it again later.
CFD: ANTIQUO. As wished by our Senior Consul. I´m
looking forward to his proposal, and I see this point
as a very important one for our res publica and our
citizens.
AICPM: ANTIQUO.
DIPI: ANTIQUO.
TLF: ANTIQUO.
GMM: ANTIQUO. I vote against adopting this tax measure
in its presented form but recognize good elements in
the proposal and look forward to seeing them re-worked
into a better form.
MMA: ANTIQUO.
MOG: ANTIQUO. A good plan in general, but the numbers
need adjusting, and I hope to introduce something
similar in a month or two.
LSAO: ANTIQUO.

ITEM IV. Approval of candidacy for Quaestor of Manius
Constantinus Serapio.
PASSED: Uti Rogas, 14; Negat, 2; Abstineo, 0.

MAM: UTI ROGAS.
MCJ: UTI ROGAS. I believe that Manius Constantinus
Serapio fully meets all qualifications under which the
Senate should approve such a candidacy.
PC: UTI ROGAS. This gentleman has been with us for a
considerable time, has shown dedication and is not far
off from the legal age for candidacy.
LCSF: ANTIQUO. My vote has nothing to do with the
worthiness of Manius Constantinus, my vote has to do
with the law and its careful consideration. I am
certain that once Manius Constantinus is of age he
will be an asset to Nova Roma.
PCS: UTI ROGAS.
LEC: UTI ROGAS.
CFQ: UTI ROGAS. I supported the right of Honorable
Manius Constantinus Serapio earlier this year. Now I
have had the honor to meet him in person in Belgium at
the Nova Roman Rally of 2755, there the impression he
made earlier of being a very honorable, hard-working
and capable citizen grew even stronger. I will
continue to support this citizen as I think that he is
that kind of person we need among the magistrates of
the Res Publica. I say grant Honorable Manius
Constantinus Serapio the exemption in order to run for
the position of Quaestor during the next elections.
QFM: ANTIQUO. Manius Constantinus is a fine young man,
but the Law is the Law. If we do not have the
requisite number of Quaestors, I will reconsider my
position, but we do not even know who is standing yet.
CFD: UTI ROGAS.
AICPM: UTI ROGAS.
DIPI: UTI ROGAS.
TLF: UTI ROGAS.
GMM: VTI ROGAS. I think that age requirements can be
waived for this entry-level office, when candidates
demonstrate good faith. I vote to waive them in this
case.
MMA: UTI ROGAS. Yes the law is the law, but the right
to decide over and above the law is given to the
Senators of Nova Roma, in this instance, to decide as
the specifics of the candidacy of the applicants shall
indicate. This allowance is provided so that various
valued elements may be considered and evaluated by men
and women of honor, in the Senate, who have the best
interests of Nova Roma in thier heart. If such were
not so, the allowance would not be permitted. Serapio
has
proven himself many times over, and I will respond to
one Senator that Master Serapio will not be a valued
Citizen in the future, because he has been a very very
valued citizen in NR for some time.
MOG: UTI ROGAS. He's done an exceptional amount of
work already, is well-suited for the office; let us
not deny it to him just for being born four weeks
late!
LSAO: UTI ROGAS.

- Citizen Manius Constantius Serapio can present their
candidature to the elections of this year.

ITEM V. Policy on the surrender of elected/appointed
offices upon resignation of citizenship and subsequent
retraction of resignation.
PASSED: Uti Rogas, 14; Negat, 2; Abstineo, 0.

MAM: UTI ROGAS.
MCJ: UTI ROGAS. I feel that this is a good item - it
allows office holders a chance to reconsider a hasty
decision... but only once. The 'one time' rule ensures
that this opportunity will not be continually abused
for political ends.
PC: UTI ROGAS.
LCSF: UTI ROGAS. I wish this law is binding on every
magistrate in Nova Roma, however it is not. There is
no way that this is binding on the Plebs unless the
Tribunes take the initiative and promulgate this. I
would be very happy to bring this endorsed SC to the
People in my upcoming term as Consul (in the Comitia
Populi and Comitia Centuriata), and I hope that our
Tribunes will also promulgate this in the Comitia
Plebis.
PCS: UTI ROGAS.
LEC: UTI ROGAS, though I really think that the
resignation should be effective immediately this is
better than no policy, or allowing things to be held
in limbo for longer.
CFQ: UTI ROGAS. This seems more than fair even better
that the old Edictum.
QFM: VTI ROGAS. I really believe resignations should
be immediate, in order to make them important
decisions rather then whims. However this is
satisfactory.
CFD: UTI ROGAS.
AICPM: ANTIQUO.
DIPI: UTI ROGAS This is a fair policy and well thought
out.
TLF: UTI ROGAS.
GMM: UTI ROGAS.
MMA: ANTIQUO. I oppose this as I believe it to be
simply a sop to any who cannot make up thier mind to
conduct elected / appointed offices in NR in
accordance with thier Oath.
MOG: UTI ROGAS.
LSAO: UTI ROGAS.

ITEM VI. Appointment of G. Cassius Nerva as Propraetor
for Mediatlantica.
PASSED Unanimously: Uti Rogas, 16; Negat, 0; Abstineo,
0.

MAM: UTI ROGAS.
MCJ: UTI ROGAS. I believe that Nerva cares deeply
about getting Mediatlantica Provincia more active, and
will do excellent work toward that end.
PC: Uti rogas (yes). Nerva has shown dedication to NR
and to learning. This province has many members and
needs a focal point to coordinate greater activity. I
wish him and Mediatlantica good fortune.
LCSF: UTI ROGAS. I have always been a friend and
support of Nerva. I am glad he has volunteerd to help
his provincia.
PCS: UTI ROGAS.
LEC: UTI ROGAS, I've meet Nerva a few times and I
think he'll do a fine job as he is a man who takes his
responsibilities seriously. I don't think people
understand his posts concerning "extremist views",
Nerva never held those views to my observation.
CFQ: UTI ROGAS. As I have said before, I have seen
this citizen develop and hopefully change. I do hope
that this is for ever. I am not sure however, but I do
accept that he gets a chance. I will act very fast if
I get the impression that he still holds on to his old
extremist views. But, as I said before, I love to give
people new chances, so I vote ...UTI ROGAS
QFM: VTI ROGAS. I've meet G. Cassius and spent three
hours with him in drives to Mediatlantica. Cassius
like to play the devil's advocate which as Festus a
role he enjoyed. But he never really believed his own
rhetoric, only using it to point out others foibles.
Because he is a military man he'll do a superior job
as he takes his duties most seriously.
CFD: UTI ROGAS. Not an easy decision for me. I
remember some doubtful posts by him, and a longer time
I considered to vote against him. But I also do not
deny many reasonable posts. I don´t want to base my
decision on things in the past, and I´m sure that he´s
able and dedicated for the office of governor.
AICPM: UTI ROGAS.
DIPI: UTI ROGAS. Having met this Nova Roman and been
quite impressed with him.
TLF: UTI ROGAS.
GMM: UTI ROGAS.
MMA: UTI ROGAS. G.C.Nerva has served me well as an
advisor when I was a Consul, and further he has
rendered service on the staff of the Province of Nova
Britannia even though he lives in another province. I
have met him on several occasions and I believe that
he has the best interests of Nova Roma and his
Provincia at heart. He has generated excellent ideas
in the past and I believe will do so in the future.
MOG: UTI ROGAS.
LSAO: UTI ROGAS.

- Citizen Gaius Cassius Nerva is the Propraetor of
Provincia Mediatlantica.

ITEM VII. Sponsorship of Legio XIV G.M.V. Cohort I of
Wisconsin.
PASSED: Uti Rogas, 15; Negat, 0; Abstineo, 1.

MAM: ABSTINEO.
MCJ: UTI ROGAS. It is great to see another Legion
interested in sponsorship. The Legions make an
excellent 'nucleus' for any public Roman gathering -
they please the crowds and do fine work toward
historical education. I would very much like to see at
least one active Legio in every Provincie someday - if
not more!
PC: UTI ROGAS. I am pleased with what I have read of
this group and hope our relationship may be of mutual
benefit.
LCSF: UTI ROGAS.
PCS: UTI ROGAS.
LEC: UTI ROGAS.
CFQ: UTI ROGAS. As I have said before: Anything
supported by Sodalitas Militarium is good enough for
me.
QFM: UTI ROGAS.
CFD: UTI ROGAS.
AICPM: UTI ROGAS.
DIPI: UTI ROGAS.
TLF: UTI ROGAS.
GMM: UTI ROGAS.
MMA: UTI ROGAS.
MOG: UTI ROGAS.
LSAO: UTI ROGAS.

- Legio XIV is now sponsored by Nova Roma.

-----

Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fwd: Headline - Hail Bush: A new Roman empire
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:45:31 -0700 (PDT)

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
SNIP
> One might count Naom
> Chomsky among the world's leading intellects as
> well.

ROFL,
Naom Chomsky?
That explains your confused ideas about the United
States.
Sorry Chomsky's "Libatarian Socalism" Is an oxynoron
dreamed up by a addled crackpot attempting to
reconcile two opposing philosophical views. A
Libertarian Socalist makes as little sense as a
"Religous Fanatic Athesist", though logic dosen't seem
to be one of Chomsky's strong points.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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