| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] question |
| From: |
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com |
| Date: |
Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:52:43 EDT |
|
>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to his cousin G. Galerius Peregrinator.
Salve.
In regards to your question about togas, you should realize that the toga
virilis changed from the period of the Early Republic (pretty simple) to the
Late Republic (slightly complex) to the Principate & Imperium (very complex &
requiring a slave to do it right) to the Late Empire (moderately simple).
The Mid-Republic toga virilis should be what you are looking for & I
recommend the book GREEK, ROMAN, AND BYZANTINE COSTUME.
Vale.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: R: appearance in roman film |
| From: |
"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 01:23:14 -0000 |
|
Hey...while we are hoping our friend Caesar gets in the movie, I would
like to voice my opinion that Mel Gibson's film will probably not
surpass what is in my opinion the best of the 'Jesus Films'---Jesus of
Nazareth directed by Franco Zefrelli.
Another good Italian film is Passolini's "The Gospel According To St.
Matthew". What makes this movie so interesting is that Passolini did
not employ stars and professional actors. He used real Italian
peasants, including his own mother as Mary {as an old woman after
Jesus had grown}.
Gaius Cassius Nerva
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar Arnamentia Aurelia S.P.D.
>
> > Please let us know if the film succeeds in it's goal
> > to be played *only* in Latin and Aramaic. (I have a
> > hunch they may add subtitles later.)
>
> I have only articles about this movie in italian language and they
say that
> it will a innovative experiment.
> http://www.repubblica.it/online/spettacoli_e_cultura/mel/mel/mel.html
> Mel Gibson is thinging about it from 10 years and he wants to
re-create the
> same background of Giudea in 1 B.C.
> So the actors will talk only in latin and aramaic and the movie will not
> subtitled. I don't if there'll a commercial version with subtitles or
> sound-track.
> I hope he'll use local actors because the italian is the language
closer to
> latin for methric and tone. The english original version of "The
Gladiator"
> is horrible: the gladiators have a wrong latin pronunciation.
> About the location Gibson have choosen a region in South Italy very
similar
> to Israel. The city of Matera is wondeful and particular and there
is a lot
> of little ruined towns in the hinterland.
> About the actors Jesus will be Jim Caveziel and Satan Rosalinda
Celentano,
> maybe Monica Belluci as Magdalen.
>
> Vale
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar
> -------------------------------------------
> Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
> Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
> Scriba Curatoris Araneum
> -------------------------------------------
> Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
> Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
> Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
> Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Upcoming History Channel programs |
| From: |
"gaius117" <lanius117@aol.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 04:02:01 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes
Here are some programs that may be of interest on the History Channel
in the next several days. All times listed are EST.
October 1 - Rise and Fall of the Spartans, Part II 9:00 PM
October 2 - Ancient City - Found and Lost: The Story of Zeugma 11:00
PM
October 10 - Lost Legions of Varus 8:00 PM
Vale,
Gaius Lanius Falco
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman Archers |
| From: |
"T. Cornelius Crispus" <centuriocornelius@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:22:29 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
I have been interested in Roman Archers for some time and eventually plan to
put together a Archer's kit. I did a lot of archery as a teenager and sort
of fell by the wayside with it. Recently the interest was rekindled when my
son took up archery with a friend.
Since I have been with the Sodalitas Militarium there have been two threads
about Roman Archery, one in November of 2001, and one in September 2002. I
have taken snippets of the descriptions given of every part of the uniform
to try to distill the information. I do not have the books referenced, so I
only have mental images, and two pictures I found on the net. The
descriptions are below, with some comments and questions I have.
Bow:
"His bow, of a recurved composite type," (Marcus Minucius Audens)
"(A) short bow, a composite weapon made of sinew or wood with bone or horn
stiffeners fragments of which have been found at Caerleon and Bar Hill
(Roman Britain)."
"They used a composite bow, which was much smaller than the English longbow,
and was made of wood strengthened on the inside of the curve with horn and
on the outside with sinew. A pair of horn nocks to which a string was
attached reinforced each end." (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Comment: In this discussion the bow is being treated as though it was being
developed during the Roman era. It is my understanding that the bow was
being used both as a hunting tool, and a serious weapon of war more then a
millennium before the founding of the City. That the Romans used the Syrians
as archers is probably the result of their use of the bow in combat
centuries before Rome even existed. Don't forget that there was a time when
Syria was the military force to be reckoned with in the Middle East.
As to the draw weight, and length of a bow. While a shorter bow may not be
able to be drawn a far as a longer bow, a fifty to sixty inch bow that would
have been used by the Syrians can very easily be drawn the thirty inches
needed by a man of today's average height. The ability to have a longer draw
is a mote point. It isn't possible for a man to draw more than 31 or 32
inches. (at least not without the risk of loosing his ear)
I have read that the English longbow had a draw weight of 100 lbs, recently
I was talking to a native American re-enactor (Algonquin - an upstate New
York tribe) about their bows. He told me that the maximum weight was 20 lbs.
The reason was not because they didn't have the right wood available, for
the bow. The forests in that region are thick with oak, maple, ash, etc. His
stated reason was they couldn't make arrows that could stand up the force of
a stronger bow. This suggests to me that the limitations are not on the bow,
but the technology needed to make the arrow. I know that has been so for the
development of the modern compound bow. If the native American could only
manage 20 lbs, and the English had a 100 lb bow. I would assume that the
Syrians could manage to be something in-between, say forty or fifty pounds.
Someone brought up the question about the range of the Roman bow. When I was
a teenager I had an old thirty-pound recurve. We used to see how far we
could shoot an arrow. Now we never measured off the distance, but knowing
the distances of the road that ran parallel to the field I have estimated
that we regularly reached two hundred yards, probably more. Add ten to
twenty pounds draw weight. . . you do the math.
Question: It has been asserted by Vib. Ambrosius Caesariensis that the bow
was drawn to the chest, not the corner of the mouth (or ear as some state),
like Marcus Minucius Audens, I would like to know the evidence for that
assertion. Not that I am arguing the question, it just interests me because
it doesn't make sense to me from a logical standpoint.
Quiver:
"On his back is slung a quiver of arrows," (Marcus Minucius Audens)
"The quiver is carried high on the back so that the arrow can be plucked out
from over the shoulder." (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Comments: None.
Question: I believe I read on this list that the quiver would also carry the
bow. Can anyone verify that?
Helmet:
(A) conical helmet (Q. Fabius Maximus)
They have a conical helmet, very reminiscent of the Norman "sangenhelm" and
probably having an iron framework. . . (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Comments: None.
Question: Does anyone know exactly what these helmets looked like? Does any
group have one? Who would make one, if I wanted to buy on?
Knife:
On his waist belt at the right side hangs a large knife. . . . The knife
appears to be straight-backed with the blade curving upward to a point. The
handle appears to be a light colored wood or ivory, with the pommel of the
knife curving downward, the knife handles being pinned in at least two
places to a full length blade. The blade hilt is small and appears to be
oval in shape. (Marcus Minucius Audens, Robinson's reconstruction)
In this rendering the archer wears no knife or knife belt, but sports a
Gladius and scabbard on a baldric over his left shoulder and a quiver of
arrows slung over his right shoulder. (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Comments: None.
Question: The description is pretty good. Does the knife have a scabbard?
Again who would make one, if I decide to get one?
Ax:
A small axe in his right. (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Comments: Small Axe is pretty general. Is there a better description?
Question: Same as above
Tunic:
Brownish short sleeved tunic (down to the elbows) and just above the knee.
As well
as a pair of trousers coming halfway between knee and ankle. (Marcus
Minucius Audens) (A) short-sleeved long tunica, which falls down to the
feet. It may be a form of tribal dress. (Caius Flavius Diocletianus)
Comments: None.
Question: None.
Armor:
Archers wore a long scale or mail hauberk (Q. Fabius Maximus)
The mail shirt sleeves extend halfway to the elbow and the skirt reaches
down to just above the mid-thigh. (Marcus Minucius Audens)
(S)hown on Hadrian's Column wearing mail shirts which are just a longer
version of the cavalry type. . . (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Their bodies are protected by a shirt of mail made with large scales (Marcus
Minucius Audens)
(Some wore scale armor made by sewing overlapping rows of metal scale on
a linen undergarment. Scales varied from one to 5 centimeters in
length (Marcus Minucius Audens))
Comments: None.
Question: None.
Sagum:
A knee length sagum of dark red, (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Comments: None.
Question: None.
Caligae:
He is wearing legionaries' sandals (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Comments: None.
Question: None.
Balteus:
The belt appears to be decorated with brass or silver plates but does not
appear to have the crotch protection of a legionary belt. (Marcus Minucius
Audens)
Comments: None.
Question: None.
Thumb Ring: mentioned by Marcus Minucius Audens, Q. Fabius Maximus, and
Galerius Aurelianus Secundus.
(probably of metal or stone) (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Comments: None.
Question: I have seen pictures of thumb rings. How exactly were they used?
Archers origin: The Hamians were a Syrian Tribe (Marcus Minucius Audens)
Levantine archers are mentioned in "The Roman Imperial Army," Graham
Webster. "Greece and Rome At War," Peter Connelly indicates:"Archers , who
were usually of Eastern origin, are shown on Hadrian's Column. . ."
Comments: None.
Question: None.
In closing: I would not use a bow with a reworked grip for demonstration, as
someone suggested. I recently purchased a bow that matches the descriptions
(recurve, 57", 40 lb draw) with a grip that is perfect without reworking. I
am using that for now to practice with. I have also done some checking, and
found that a bow can be made with the rawhide, and bone, as the original.
For the sake of public demonstration I plan to invest in one.
If anyone has questions, comments, criticisms, I would appreciate hearing
them. I think with a little bit of study, and care, some of us can develop a
very authentic reconstruction of a Roman archer.
Vale,
T. Cornelius Crispus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Praetoral Address III: The Nature of a Veto. (Clarificat... |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 02:22:19 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/30/02 2:00:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
richmal@attbi.com writes:
> Am I to presume correctly that you are now spokesperson for Lucius
> Cornelius Sulla Felix? If that is the case I will accept your answer
> on his behalf and I sincerely thank you for publically answering my
> question concerning this matter.
>
>
You are correct in the presumption as I know what Cornelius Sulla did not
like about the Cassian proposal. As for me acting as his spokesperson I
would not go a far as to say that, only to offer an explanation to people.
The Jr. Consul would welcome the people's private correspondence to him.
Things are continuing with other members of the Senate to reach a compromise.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] question |
| From: |
"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 06:29:23 +0000 |
|
>From Galerius Peregrinator to his cousin Galerius Aurelianus.
Salve and thank you for the reference, but is there an author's name so I
could look it up. I have in mind to have a toga taylored for me.
Thank you again and vale.
>From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] question
>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:52:43 EDT
>
>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to his cousin G. Galerius
>Peregrinator.
>Salve.
>
>In regards to your question about togas, you should realize that the toga
>virilis changed from the period of the Early Republic (pretty simple) to
>the
>Late Republic (slightly complex) to the Principate & Imperium (very complex
>&
>requiring a slave to do it right) to the Late Empire (moderately simple).
>The Mid-Republic toga virilis should be what you are looking for & I
>recommend the book GREEK, ROMAN, AND BYZANTINE COSTUME.
>
>Vale.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Lacus Magni Event Last Saturday |
| From: |
AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 05:57:08 -0400 |
|
I had the pleasure of attending the Event last Saturday and I must say that our esteemed Propraetor, Marcus Bianchius Antonius, did a most excellent job of putting on a wonderful event. I have to also mention that the Roman meal prepared by Prima Fabia Drusila was some of the best cooking I have had the pleasure to enjoy.
The turn out was small, but the company that took the time out of their busy schedule to stay made the event a special one. One to be remembered. Everyone present took time out of busy schedules they keep to be a Roman community, and that is important -- at least to me.
I was especially impressed by the presence of both Marcus Octavius Germanicus and Prima Fabia Drusila. Both of them came a significant distance to participate at the event, and at some personal expense to themselves. It is this sort of solidarity that will make Nova Rome truly great.
All in all, it was a great time. I would encourage anyone in the Lacus Magni Province, and those outside the province as well, to make the effort to attend next year -- you will not regret it!
Vale;
G. Cassius Athanasius
In a message dated Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:55:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, xwood@usa.net writes:
> Ave Propraetore Bianchius:
>
> How went the gathering?
>
> Vale
> Tiberius Ambrosius
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Copyrights |
| From: |
Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:39:11 -0400 |
|
>
> "...as it is criminal to steal other people's
> ideas in my opinion."
>
> Usually, aggrieved parties must file a civil lawsuit outlining
> liability and damages.
In practice, however, this usually can be adjusted by a simple letter.
If you wish to use any substantial amount of material (more than a
couple of paragraphs) copied directly from a book, it is wise to get
permission first. This can be obtained by writing to the publisher of
the book. It usually takes a couple of months. Many publishers will OK
the use of a small amount of material for a non-profit organization,
but others will wish to charge a fee. You may then decide whether or
not it's worth it to you to republish the material.
Also, under the copyright laws of most Western nations, *you cannot
copyright an idea.* You can only copyright a specific *expression* of
that idea. For instance, I have a Web site on Roman weddings
(www.janeraeburn.com/wedding). I hold copyright in that Web site. If
you copied the text of that page and pasted it onto your own site, you
would be in violation of copyright. I do not own the idea of an ancient
Roman wedding. If you do your own research on Roman weddings, perhaps
quoting brief excerpts from my page, you would not be in violation of
my copyright.
Photographs and works of art are copyright in their entirety. If you
copied my wedding picture onto your site without permission from me,
you would be in violation of copyright. Likewise, the museums that own
ancient statues hold copyright to images of those statues.
Copyrights do expire. Laws differ by country, but in the U.S. copyright
usually lasts for the life of the author plus 70 years. So the
descendants of Cicero cannot claim copyright in his speeches. However,
the translators who convert his works into modern English hold
copyright in their translations.
-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] New Gens Galeria Web Site |
| From: |
"Quintus Galerius Britannicus" <max_vladimir@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 01:32:00 -0000 |
|
Salve,
Please check out the new Gens Galeria web site when you have a
chance. www.geocities.com/max_vladimir
Vale,
Quintus Galerius
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] not getting mail |
| From: |
asseri@aol.com |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:53:58 EDT |
|
Salvette,
I changed my settings yesterday from Digest to individual e-mail however I
have yet to get a one. Now I know you good citizens are chatting!
Im not sure who to address this to so I risk the wasted bandwidth on the main
list. Please could some one help me who knows what to do?
Valette
Prima Fabia Drusila
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Copyrights |
| From: |
"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:00:23 -0500 |
|
I was just saying its a civil issue, not criminal.
The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Patricia Cassia
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:39 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Copyrights
>
> "...as it is criminal to steal other people's
> ideas in my opinion."
>
> Usually, aggrieved parties must file a civil lawsuit outlining
> liability and damages.
In practice, however, this usually can be adjusted by a simple letter.
If you wish to use any substantial amount of material (more than a
couple of paragraphs) copied directly from a book, it is wise to get
permission first. This can be obtained by writing to the publisher of
the book. It usually takes a couple of months. Many publishers will OK
the use of a small amount of material for a non-profit organization,
but others will wish to charge a fee. You may then decide whether or
not it's worth it to you to republish the material.
Also, under the copyright laws of most Western nations, *you cannot
copyright an idea.* You can only copyright a specific *expression* of
that idea. For instance, I have a Web site on Roman weddings
(www.janeraeburn.com/wedding). I hold copyright in that Web site. If
you copied the text of that page and pasted it onto your own site, you
would be in violation of copyright. I do not own the idea of an ancient
Roman wedding. If you do your own research on Roman weddings, perhaps
quoting brief excerpts from my page, you would not be in violation of
my copyright.
Photographs and works of art are copyright in their entirety. If you
copied my wedding picture onto your site without permission from me,
you would be in violation of copyright. Likewise, the museums that own
ancient statues hold copyright to images of those statues.
Copyrights do expire. Laws differ by country, but in the U.S. copyright
usually lasts for the life of the author plus 70 years. So the
descendants of Cicero cannot claim copyright in his speeches. However,
the translators who convert his works into modern English hold
copyright in their translations.
-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Copyrights |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:16:10 -0000 |
|
Salve Patricia et omnes,
Thank you for your explanations on copyright laws. I thought that
would be a good issue for everyone to learn about since there is much
work and research being done in NR. I said "criminal in my opinion"
meaning to express my feeling that stealing an idea our source from
someone without crediting the person is like stealing a material
thing. I realize, as Gaius says that it is in law not a criminal
matter or felony as you say in the states; still though it is taken
seriously enough to get you a 0 or expulsion in some universities as
well as financial litigation.
Yours respectfully,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Patricia Cassia <pcassia@n...> wrote:
> >
> > "...as it is criminal to steal other people's
> > ideas in my opinion."
> >
> > Usually, aggrieved parties must file a civil lawsuit outlining
> > liability and damages.
>
> In practice, however, this usually can be adjusted by a simple
letter.
> If you wish to use any substantial amount of material (more than a
> couple of paragraphs) copied directly from a book, it is wise to
get
> permission first. This can be obtained by writing to the publisher
of
> the book. It usually takes a couple of months. Many publishers will
OK
> the use of a small amount of material for a non-profit
organization,
> but others will wish to charge a fee. You may then decide whether
or
> not it's worth it to you to republish the material.
>
> Also, under the copyright laws of most Western nations, *you cannot
> copyright an idea.* You can only copyright a specific *expression*
of
> that idea. For instance, I have a Web site on Roman weddings
> (www.janeraeburn.com/wedding). I hold copyright in that Web site.
If
> you copied the text of that page and pasted it onto your own site,
you
> would be in violation of copyright. I do not own the idea of an
ancient
> Roman wedding. If you do your own research on Roman weddings,
perhaps
> quoting brief excerpts from my page, you would not be in violation
of
> my copyright.
>
> Photographs and works of art are copyright in their entirety. If
you
> copied my wedding picture onto your site without permission from
me,
> you would be in violation of copyright. Likewise, the museums that
own
> ancient statues hold copyright to images of those statues.
>
> Copyrights do expire. Laws differ by country, but in the U.S.
copyright
> usually lasts for the life of the author plus 70 years. So the
> descendants of Cicero cannot claim copyright in his speeches.
However,
> the translators who convert his works into modern English hold
> copyright in their translations.
>
>
> -----
> Patricia Cassia
> Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
> Nova Roma . pcassia@n...
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Copyrights |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:18:14 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Patricia Cassia <pcassia@n...> wrote:
> >
> > "...as it is criminal to steal other people's
> > ideas in my opinion."
> >
> > Usually, aggrieved parties must file a civil lawsuit outlining
> > liability and damages.
Yours respectfully,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
> In practice, however, this usually can be adjusted by a simple
letter.
> If you wish to use any substantial amount of material (more than a
> couple of paragraphs) copied directly from a book, it is wise to
get
> permission first. This can be obtained by writing to the publisher
of
> the book. It usually takes a couple of months. Many publishers will
OK
> the use of a small amount of material for a non-profit
organization,
> but others will wish to charge a fee. You may then decide whether
or
> not it's worth it to you to republish the material.
>
> Also, under the copyright laws of most Western nations, *you cannot
> copyright an idea.* You can only copyright a specific *expression*
of
> that idea. For instance, I have a Web site on Roman weddings
> (www.janeraeburn.com/wedding). I hold copyright in that Web site.
If
> you copied the text of that page and pasted it onto your own site,
you
> would be in violation of copyright. I do not own the idea of an
ancient
> Roman wedding. If you do your own research on Roman weddings,
perhaps
> quoting brief excerpts from my page, you would not be in violation
of
> my copyright.
>
> Photographs and works of art are copyright in their entirety. If
you
> copied my wedding picture onto your site without permission from
me,
> you would be in violation of copyright. Likewise, the museums that
own
> ancient statues hold copyright to images of those statues.
>
> Copyrights do expire. Laws differ by country, but in the U.S.
copyright
> usually lasts for the life of the author plus 70 years. So the
> descendants of Cicero cannot claim copyright in his speeches.
However,
> the translators who convert his works into modern English hold
> copyright in their translations.
>
>
> -----
> Patricia Cassia
> Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
> Nova Roma . pcassia@n...
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Praetoral Address III: The Nature of a Veto. |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:23:34 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve Senator Quinte Fabi,
> Lucius Cornelius remains silent due to the propensity of his political
> enemies to twist his words to suit their means.
Who among us is *not* the victim of that?
You and I are able to respond to such twisting and still make our
positions known.
A Senator and Magistrate should not be off sulking in a corner while
more capable orators speak for him.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator
|
| Subject: |
FW: Re: [Nova-Roma] A question |
| From: |
me-in-@disguise.co.uk |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:44:15 +0100 (BST) |
|
-----Original Message-----
>From : qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
>>
>>> I mean by this social,
>>> religious political aspects of these women. Not just the upper class
>>> women, but the rest to?
>>>
>>
>>The rest would be considered baby factories. The lower class married for
>>love or even expedency. Only the upper class received an education, and this
>>was mostly religious tracts. Women had rights, though they were limited.
>>Rome being a Patriarchal Warrior society saw to that.
>>
>Our own attitudes and their secrecy bedevil Roman research to some extent. Mere legislation doesn't indicate any real situation directly save that repeated legislation can indicate a continuing situation considered undesirable. There was a number of women-only religious organisations ranging from mere clubs to 'masonic secrecy' but since they were secret and men did the writing and had a vested interest in playing them down, it's hard to tell their real significance. Since a very patriarchal society also did the translations and most familiar representations of ancient Rome, they would have been overlooked or dismissed as irrelevent even if they did have great significance.
> In a world without modern forms of politics, non-voting women probably had more clout than non-voting women where men did vote. (Indeed this was one of the female objections to gaining voting rights - one wife's influence on her legislative husband carries far more weight than one woman's vote among ten million).The religious aspects would allow for manipualtion through oracles unavailable to men and a certain degree of being above the law seems to have allowed women to get away with convenient assassination and string-pulling more safely than men. If men were expected to keep women under control, it follows that men often bore responsibility for women's actions, therefore had to cover for them or face prosecution, maybe death. Lack of formal responsibility usually means informal power free from come-back.
> For the lower classes, it is even more likely Mama was little different from the Matriarch of a modern Italian or Spanish household since Magna Mater in all her forms loomed a lot larger and less meek & mild than any simpering BVM.
>Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.
--
Personalised email by http://another.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Statement of LCS |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:10:27 -0700 |
|
Avete Omnes,
I have stated my reasons in the Senate why I vetoed the law.
So here in answer to your request is the reasons for my veto. I feel that the proposal does not have the best interest of Nova Roma at its core. This proposal would hinder the future developement of Nova Roma by breaking up gentes (families) into smaller groups of essentially blood related groups. The exception is for a single 30 day period when those in existing gentes can decide to remain in the Paterfamilias family. After these thirty days, no longer will gens members be able to be adopted by any Paterfamilias.
Not many of us have our entire families in Nova Roma, myself included.
The result of this law will be the proliferation of many families each of one person. By doing this, the proposal removes any freedom of choice. Either you join a Paterfamilias in the first thirty days as part of an extended family, or you become your own head of a family of one. You cannot change your mind, later .
I feel that this does not serve the best interest in Nova Roma considering that most of Nova Romans are not blood or marriage related and that most of our citizens are gained through accepting new members into Nova Roma. This immigration accounts for 99.9% of the growth of Nova Roma. Not the breeding of families. How many babies have been born by Nova Roman parents? Five or six children in the 5 years NR has existed? Now how many of those families have all of their members within Nova Roma? Very few. In other words, we have an influx of new citizens who have little or no understanding on what it means to be a Nova Roman, and that the Gentes (Clans) serve as a means to educate those new citizens assimilating them into the Nova Roma life stream and learn about the importance of the Virtues. This is what I do as Paterfamilias within the Gens Cornelia.
This proposal is fraught with problems. As the excellent Senator Q. Fabius pointed out, what if you have a family member (who is blood related to you) who wants to join another family to whom he is not blood related with? According to the Sovereignty Clause of the Constitution we cannot prevent him (and the recent Censorial edict reconfirms that). One of the reasons that the Cassian faction have given to justify their all out effort to get the Nova Roma Senate to accept this proposal is to limit the control of the Paterfamilias. This is entirely satisfied by this edict.
So the question remains is why are they trying to push gens reform through? And, why are they trying to break up the families into blood related groups when that is already promised by the Sovereignty Clause of the Constitution of Nova Roma?
I would not be human if I did not feel that this proposal is politically motivated to break up the Gens Cornelia. The powers appear to be afraid of the political power of the Gens Cornelia. We usually have the highest voting turnouts. This has been thoroughly discussed previously both within the Senate and on the ML about 1-2 months ago. Please feel free to browse the achieves and review these discussions for yourself.
In addition to the above mentioned, my Consular colleague knew that there was further negotiation and compromise going on concerning Gens Reform. I had already made my position quite clear. The Praetors and Senator Q. Fabius were working on some additional issues that were and continue to be sticking points. My colleague was notified that this was still in progress, before he summoned the Senate, and knew I would veto the Cassian proposal, still he chose to put it up for consideration. I can only assume he felt that the political pressure I was under in the Senate would cause me to allow the proposal to go forward.
Citizens, this is my second term as Consul, I do not intend to run for any more Nova Roman offices. I am tired of the repeated attempts to label me as a traitor (which has happened on more than one occasion), as someone who abuses the system, and as a criminal in a Not for Profit Corporation. No one deserves that label unless they are tried and convicted but in Nova Roma it is obvious that those requirements are not necessary, all one needs to do is get rumors and innuendo started and everyone believes them.
I have faithfully served as Quaestor, Praetor Urbanus, Consul (two times), Senator, Censor (first to complete a full term) and Proconsul of California and my actions speak for myself. But, I have observed that it is always easier to blame the person who acts because there will always be people who are opposed to the action one takes.
I love Nova Roma and I have given five years of my life to her.
I stand by my conviction that this proposal is not good for Nova Roma, will cause perhaps irreparable damage to her and needs to be revised before I will lift my veto.
Contrary what my enemies say and believe, I am not power mad, nor am I a petty dictator in disguise. I want the best for Nova Roma. This proposal as written is not the best. It can be much better.
Thank you for listening to my view.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Statement of LCS |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:05:31 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve Colleague,
> This proposal would hinder the future developement of Nova Roma by breaking
> up gentes (families) into smaller groups of essentially blood related
> groups.
I notice that you use the word "families" while talking about a collection
of people who chose the same gens name on the application form, yet you
avoid the word, instead using "blood related groups", when the subject
is actual, real-world families. Curious.
This breaking up of gentes would do no more than remove the unhistorical
practice of a single person making the decisions for an entire gens, as
if he was actually head of all of those households.
Would it prevent you from running a gens mailing list? No. Would it
prevent you from giving a warm welcome to new members of a gens? No.
Would it prevent you from having conversations with people in your gens,
in person or by phone? No.
The effect of Cassius's proposal on the idea of a gens as community
are negligible. All that it would do would be to remove the "overlord",
and let multiple patresfamilias (true patresfamilias) deal with the
others in their gens as equals.
> The exception is for a single 30 day period when those in existing
> gentes can decide to remain in the Paterfamilias family. After these
> thirty days, no longer will gens members be able to be adopted by any
> Paterfamilias.
Only if such an adoption occurs in real life. To adopt a person involves
taking him into your household, financially supporting that person,
and being a true father or mother. The misuse of the word to describe
a role-playing situation, where one "adopts" strangers thousands of
miles away, makes a mockery of our system.
> The result of this law will be the proliferation of many families each
> of one person. By doing this, the proposal removes any freedom of choice.
Each person has the freedom of choice to call their friends "fratres"
or "pater" or whatever they like. What we are removing is the
recognition of such role-playing relationships in our legal system.
> In other words, we have an influx of new citizens who have little or no
> understanding on what it means to be a Nova Roman, and that the Gentes
> (Clans) serve as a means to educate those new citizens assimilating
> them into the Nova Roma life stream and learn about the importance of
> the Virtues. This is what I do as Paterfamilias within the Gens Cornelia.
And that need not change at all with the new system. In the new system,
when a new Cornelius applies for citizenship, you can invite them to
your mailing list, talk to them on AIM or on the main list, and provide
exactly the same advice and education you do now. I can easily alter
the citizenship application program so that *all* registered patresfamilias
in a gens are informed when a new citizen selects that gens - nothing
in the proposed law prohibits that, and I think it would do much to
keep gens-as-community alive.
> This proposal is fraught with problems. As the excellent Senator
> Q. Fabius pointed out, what if you have a family member (who is
> blood related to you) who wants to join another family to whom he is
> not blood related with?
With the proposed changes, such a person would become the progenitor
of an independent family, possibly in the same gens as their real-life
family member, possibly another. I see no problems with this.
> So the question remains is why are they trying to push gens reform
> through?
We began by trying to address a specific problem, dealing with a situation
that has occurred in the past, the keeping of persons within a gens
where they do not wish to be. You were just as much against that
reform as you are against the current proposal; the current proposal
came about only because you and your allies said that we were
"unhistorical"; that provided the impetus to move towards a more
historically accurate solution. It is only because you asked for
something more historical that the Lex Octavia Salicia was
temporarily withdrawn, and the Cassius reform proposal formulated.
> And, why are they trying to break up the families into blood related
> groups
There you go again, avoiding use of the word families where appropriate.
We are not breaking up "families". We are acknowledging real families
that exist within non-blood-related groups.
> I would not be human if I did not feel that this proposal is
> politically motivated to break up the Gens Cornelia.
How so? Will the members of your gens be less likely to vote for you,
or listen to you, after this passes? Will there be a mass defection
from your private mailing list after the reorganization?
I don't think your relationships with them are so flimsy.
There will be no "break up". All that will change is that several of
(probably most of the members of the gens) will be called "paterfamilias"
or "materfamilias", and will legally be on equal standing with you.
Why would this be a break up? If they're still your friends - and I
see no reason why that would change - they'll still maintain those
relations.
> In addition to the above mentioned, my Consular colleague knew that
> there was further negotiation and compromise going on concerning
> Gens Reform.
No, there wasn't. You had refused to accept anything we did without
changes that would render the reform completely pointless. I placed
it on the agenda after it was clear that the attempts at compromise
had failed.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] not getting mail |
| From: |
Legion XXIV <legionxxiv@comcast.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:13:01 -0400 |
|
And in reverse, I went from individual e-mails to digest
and I am still getting individual postings.
Is there problem here or with Yahoo?
Gallio Marsallas
www.legionxxiv.org
----- Original Message -----
From: asseri@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:53 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] not getting mail
Salvette,
I changed my settings yesterday from Digest to individual e-mail however I
have yet to get a one. Now I know you good citizens are chatting!
Im not sure who to address this to so I risk the wasted bandwidth on the main
list. Please could some one help me who knows what to do?
Valette
Prima Fabia Drusila
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: not getting mail |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:00:11 -0000 |
|
Salve Gallio,
Just sending a test message, see if you get this ok as well as the
board posting.
Quintus
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Legion XXIV <legionxxiv@c...> wrote:
>
> And in reverse, I went from individual e-mails to digest
> and I am still getting individual postings.
>
> Is there problem here or with Yahoo?
>
> Gallio Marsallas
> www.legionxxiv.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: asseri@a...
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:53 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] not getting mail
>
>
> Salvette,
>
> I changed my settings yesterday from Digest to individual e-mail
however I
> have yet to get a one. Now I know you good citizens are chatting!
>
> Im not sure who to address this to so I risk the wasted bandwidth
on the main
> list. Please could some one help me who knows what to do?
>
>
> Valette
> Prima Fabia Drusila
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Your Own Ideas |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:38:36 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Senator / Praetor Pompeia Cornelia Strabo;
It seems that I have not made myself clear once again. Others seem to
understand the thrust of my messages and even compliment me on them and
write thier own messages referencing them. However, with given people,
I seem to come across in ways where I am misunderstood. How very
distressing!!
I was complimenting both yourself and Senator Maximus in covering well a
"hard road to travel." The term "heavy-hitters" was meant as a specific
compliment, since your posts and those of Senator Maximus are ones which
I eagerly read whenever they appear, in contrast to others on this list,
who do not interest me at all.
I think that you do an excellent job in your Magistrate's position, and
as a Senator and Provincial Govenor. I have been fulsome in my praise
of you in those areas and others in which you have served recently and
during past years.
However, I may not always agree with you, and if I do not, then I shall
say so as I feel the need, just as you have done on many occasions.
Just as Senator Maximus has developed an alternate proposal, so have
you, as well. In this respect, you appear to be on one side of the
question, while I appear to be on the opposite side, regardless of what
you would have me say to be politically correct in your view, such is
how it appears to me. I think that your working closely with Senator
Maximus in this effort is demonstrative of your good sense in choosing
someone with whom you can work closely and who shares your views and
values. As the proposals come closer and closer together. "feeling"
thier way toward some kind of concurrence, I have sought in my
"heavy-handed" way to compliment you both on a hard task well done.
Certainly, your combined efforts are better orchestrated, and better
accomplished for the good of Nova Roma, than merely Vetoing a Proposal
and going off to pout until others meet one's rather selfish desires.
That is behavior that I niether understand nor appreciate. However,
everyone knows that I may be a tad judgemental in regard to Nova Roma
and what is best for her.
However, apparently I have offended you yet again, and for that I am
sorry. I will not be so bold as to compliment you further in the
future!!
Respectfully and Regretfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Magnus laci event -My report |
| From: |
asseri@aol.com |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:51:49 EDT |
|
Salvete,
Unto the good Citizens of Nova Roma I send my greetings and admiration,
My adventure for our event started a few weeks earlier with food planing and
purchasing. The one thing I learned is that Rabbit is impossible to find this
time of year. We estimated food for 15 . Then the purchasing started. Real
fun getting to explore all your communities groceries nooks and crannies.
Not to brag too much I took vacation time off to cook all day the Thursday
before.Truely the smartest things I could have done. I spend for 7:30 to 4:
30 making a wide range of foods. I wanted to create a good solid taste of
Roman variety! I also was reacquainted why a good kitchen had an army of
slaves and drudges as well. Praise the gods above for the creation of a food
processor!
we served a wondrous array if I may say so (a cooks pride you know)
Roman Lunch
Black olives
Green olives
Herbed green olives
Carrot slices celery
Some with marinated some not
Hard cooked eggs
feta cheese
Marinated cucumber slices
Savory herbed cream cheeses
Sweet herbed ricotta cheese
Pate’
Bread
Barley soup
Fava bean and leeks
Isiciao mentata- meat patties
Sardines in egg sauce
Marinated beef
Honeyed mushrooms
Roasted fowl/Cornish game hens
Ham in pastry
Glob w/honey (Fried bread and honey
Honey fried dates
fresh grapes
OK the first serious on site challenge was the lack of a stove. It did
however have a microwave, so reheating this like the soup was not so bad. I
had to scraped the ham in pastry and simple pierced the ham inserted wine
pumped figs and wrapped its plastic to heat in the microwave.
We had thought the site had one. A gas hibachi came to the rescue but the
Cornish game hen was cut up and marinated in a little olive oil and pepper r
right before being tossed on the grill. The fire was hot and really crisped
the bird. this created a menu change and glorious high flames. Propraetor,
Marcus Bianchius Antonius said they could see the reflection on the walls
when the oil and greases sent the flame shooting. But I never set off the
smoke alarm! I made a date and fig sauce for the chicken!
Since I had made so much before hand that was the only meat that had to be
cooked on site. Thank the gods, is all I can say. I was able to heat oil to
fry the globi and do the honey fried dates. On a breath of inspiration I
seared some of the bread with olive oil and garlic for a great taste.
after a lovey and heartflelt dinner blessing said by G. Cassius Athanasius I
set everything out explained what it was and let them have their fill .
Barley soup was bland to say the least and i did kinda like the sardines.
and I really like the seared bread and cream cheese.
I think I was givnen a very good gift of that day. I was able to get very
close to the Romans of old as I improvised and rose above the challenges. In
fact I learned quite a lot. I want to thank Crispiana our Propraetor's sweet
lady who was a tireless aid to me. She is to be honored for her sacrifice!
What I did learn for next year. If I am allowed to help I would suggest a
light cold lunch of say-hard cooked eggs hard cheese bread maybe cold ground
meat patties and vegetable and grapes.
Stay on site for a simple dinner. Say a soup roasted cold bird with a couple
of sauces, Gobi honey fried dates, and a few other new items yet to be
tested. A t the cost of about $7.00 per person.
after the food game games! I had a great time winning the backgammon
tournament. I have never rolled so many doubles in my life well over 10 over
the course of three games!
Senator Marcus Octavius Germanicus gently said at my dismay , "That the gods
were looking at me kindly for my hard work ." Perhaps he was right.
the pleasure of the oratory contest in the park was a great idea and a great
place for pictures! that is always worth the trip alone
All in all I had a grand time and loved feeding you all. And Please come next
year and stay for the day and see what good things come of it!
Valete
Prima Fabia Drusila
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Praetoral Address III: The Nature of a Veto. (Clarificat... |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 20:36:24 -0000 |
|
Salve Q Fabius Maximus,
Again I thank you and as the Jr. Consul's address today, while longer
and more detailed, echoed your answer. I know you spoke truthfully in
your answer and wish all parties the best in reaching an acceptable
compromise.
Vale,
Q. Cassius Calvus
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/30/02 2:00:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> You are correct in the presumption as I know what Cornelius Sulla
did not
> like about the Cassian proposal. As for me acting as his
spokesperson I
> would not go a far as to say that, only to offer an explanation to
people.
> The Jr. Consul would welcome the people's private correspondence to
him.
> Things are continuing with other members of the Senate to reach a
compromise.
>
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Academic Approach: Comments |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:39:36 +0100 (BST) |
|
Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus et Q. Lanio Paulino S.P.D.
I would like to add a few comments to the late messages on this mailing
list about Nova Roma's academic efforts.
First of all, I would like to thank Quintus Lanius Paulinus for showing
his interest in improving Nova Roma's academic value. This kind of
attitude is, in my humble opinion, a very valuable asset for Nova Roma.
Secondly, I would like to say again that there is already a pretty
serious effort to improve Nova Roma's commitment to academic
excellence. It is called the Academia Thules, and we have already
imparted a series of pretty successful courses (more courses are being
prepared). If there are citizens interested in working in the
improvement of Nova Roma's academic side, we at the Academia would be
very interested in hearing of them. We are open to any kind of ideas,
projects and dreams (perhaps because we have so many projects and
dreams of our own :-) ); and we would love to cooperate or help you in
any possible way.
Thirdly, and as for the improvement of Nova Roma's academic recognition
in the macronational world, the Academia is already planning a group of
projects that involve European universities and the government of the
European Union itself. Those are extremely ambitious projects, and
their precise explanation is better left for the time when things are
closer to become a reality; but I do think that we are on the way to
really improve Nova Roma's academic connections with the outside world.
I hope to hear from you soon. We have common goals, and we can strive
together to attain them.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Statement of LCS |
| From: |
"Proculus Postumius Nero" <postumius@gmx.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:44:04 -0400 |
|
Pro. Postumius Nero Quiritibus Novae Romae S.P.D.
Salvete,
I would first like to thank the consul Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix for
entering the public once more and asserting his position to his constituents
and those whom it is his ultimate duty to protect and defend. I feel his
courage in doing so is greatly approved of, and even moreso wanted, and yet
still magnitudinally worthy of honor, thus I bestow upon him, as a citizen,
the honor thus necessitated in his action there.
Second, I would like to speak, as I may, about the consul's statements to
the public, of which I am a part, in the capacity of a citizen and
constituent and nothing more, myself not being either senator, which I
aspire to eventually be, nor magistrate, which too I aspire to be.
(For the sake of the saving of space, I do not repeat the consul's words,
though they may be found by a searching of the archives.) In the second
paragraph of the consul's reply, as pointed out by his colleague Germanicus,
he states himself to feel the proposal not to have the best interest of Nova
Roma at it's core. I only refute this in that I would be beyond the reaches
of my interred ashes and that of even Pluto himself, before I were to state
the Pater Patriae Marcus Cassius Iulianus, Proconsular Senator and Pontifex
Maximus, to place anything within the grasp of the Senate that is not in the
best interests of Nova Roma. I feel that both Iulianus and the praetor
Fortunatus had the best interests of Nova Roma at heart, and perhaps the
proposal was not of the quality or context or what have you, that the Consul
desired, or, alternatively, it just may not have been what the Consul felt
to be in the best interests of Nova Roma, which is what I feel is how the
honored Sulla feels on the issue, however I do not speak for him.
In his third paragraph, one sentence in length, the Consul states that few
of us have our entire families as citizens of Nova Roma, and the Consul also
goes so far as to include himself in the majority of the population that
does not. However, this may be true, it should also be said that some of us
feel that we Nova Romans are a family of our own, myself included in that. I
would even go so far as to assert that, though he knows this, I often refer
to my paterfamilias, Quintus Postumius Albinus Maius, to be more of an uncle
to me than a man I have no knowledge of. It is, thus, my contention that we
are all a family who, at times, disputes with one another, sometimes with
desired ends, and other times with undesirable ends. And to that end, I
would also claim my paterfamilias, beyond that of the gens Postumia, of
which I would like to see more members, the honored Marcus Cassius Iulianus,
who, not to at all call old or greatly aged, I consider to be more of a
grandfather of some sort. But I have digressed too much on this now.
In his next paragraph, the Consul states that this proposal, should it be
ratified as a lex by the people and the Senate, would augment the familial
system within the Patria into families each of one person. And this is true,
to an extent. With the thirty day period of choosing at the ratificiation of
this lex, should it have ever became thus, you could either become part of a
familia by extention, or become of your won family of one, yourself being
the paterfamilias (or materfamilias). And with this, I agree. However, I do
feel that it should also be stated that in Antique Rome, families of one
rarely existed because there were so many citizens, and that, at birth, most
persons, as far as I know, became part of a familia and, also by extention,
a citizen, therefore removing the problem we are now faced with.
The Consul also goes to say that one couldn't change contention later and
choose to become part of another familia by means of extention. I contend
this only in that, as the Praetor Strabo stated, there should have been a
provision for adoptio and/or adrogatio in the proposal, which I would assume
to have came about by the proposers, had they thought of it at the time,
which they did not and cannot be faulted for. And in this, had I been
consul, I too would have vetoed the proposal, with the statement that my
veto would be lifted as soon as the proposal included a provision for
adoptio and adrogatio, and thus would have clearly and voiceferously stated
such.
Further, the consul states that citizens use Gentes to educate themselves
into the ways and morals et al. of Nova Roma. I would go so far as to say
that this is a great statement, and that it could be possible, even with a
new citizen being the Paterfamilias of a familia of their own, to consult
the Paterfamilias of the Gens for such education, therefore preserving both
the aspects of the Gens and the Familia within one another.
With regard to what the Consul said about a blood relative wishing to be
adopted into a family of which there is no blood relation, I would again
refer this to a provision for adoptio or adrogatio, however this may be
handled.
It would not become of me to speak on his feelings of the political
motivation behind the proposal. I don't feel that this is the case, but I do
not know the Senate as well as I'd like, also I do not know what is in the
minds of the Senators, and thus cannot comment on this. However, my above
contention remains the same, as I respect the integrity demanded of a Nova
Roman senator.
As well, I cannot comment on the paragraph following the one just previously
mentioned, for obvious reasons. On both topics, this and the one prior, I
would rather the spoken of and involved parties to speak for themselves.
Finally, in closing, I would like to dictate (which, for those of you who
think this means what it, to an extend, does, I use this to mean what it's
Latin root would state it to mean, lit. "to speak") my views on the Consul's
final three paragraphs. It is a matter of public record what Sulla has and
has not been, and so he does not need to re-state it. And I do not
appreciate the statement regarding that rumors and innuendo control the
workings of Nova Roma. I take great offense at that, though I would not
assume the consul to care what it is the people feel on the matter. My
comment continues to the next paragraph of his oratory. As for his final
statment, I feel that he has served faithfully, and do not dispute that. I
do, however, feel that he reads farther into what is said, and assumes what
is not true about what his opponents believe. I too feel that the proposal
could be better, however, there are some working on it, and I feel that the
Consul should have stated that he would rather see the proposal resubmitted
with amendments earlier rather than waiting as he has to state his
contentions. Thus is my opinion.
Optime Valete in Pace Sui Aeterna,
Pro. Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus
--
Retiarius Lacuum Magnorum
Scriba Curatoris Araneae
Discipolus Anno Tertio Linguae Latinae
Civis Lacuum Magnorum Provinciae
Civis Patriae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" -- Q. Horati Flacci
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Statement of LCS |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 20:51:56 -0000 |
|
Salve L. Cornelius Sulla,
--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Avete Omnes,
>
>
>
> I have stated my reasons in the Senate why I vetoed the law.
>
>
>
> So here in answer to your request is the reasons for my veto.
I wish to publically thank you for your concise and publically
stating of the reasons for your veto. I greatly appreciate your
addressing this matter. I wish all parties the best in reaching an
agreement.
Vale,
Q. Cassius Calvus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] OCTOBER KALENDAE GREETINGS! |
| From: |
GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:29:23 -0700 (PDT) |
|
SALVETE OMNES! Speak words of good omens today for it
is the KALENDAE! May IVNO REGINA AS IVNO SOROR be ever
propitious to us all! BONAM MENTVM, BONAM SALVTEM!
VALETE! FRATER GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, PGI.
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: not getting mail |
| From: |
"jamiekjohnston" <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:13:52 -0000 |
|
Jamie Johnston to the members of the Nova-Roma e-mail list, greetings.
Until a few days ago I was on 'no email' setting. I changed
to 'individual emails' with no effect, and then to 'digest', with no
effect.
It looks as though yahoogroups is simply not putting into effect any
changes in members' settings. I have filled in a feedback form on the
site to ask them for help, but have had no reply yet. When I receive
one I'll pass it on to the group, but in the mean time they might act
more quickly if others also reported the problem.
Jamie
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: New Citizen, Women |
| From: |
Jim Lancaster <jlancaster@foxcable.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:17:23 -0700 |
|
Salvete Quirites!
I am happy to announce that as of a.d. VII Kal. Oct. I am now properly a
citizen of Nova Roma, adopted into Gens Iulia by our gracious materfamilias
Iulia Vopisca. I've also paid my taxes. I send greetings to all on this
Kalends in honor of the Fides Publica and Mars, and in commemoration of the
tigillum sororium and the birthday in 961 a.u.c. (208 CE) of poor, tender,
doomed little Alexander Severus. As a sidenote to the discussion of the
status of women, I'd like to note that Alexander's great aunt, Julia Domna,
openly ran the business side of the empire after the death of her husband L.
Septimius Severus and murder, in her arms, of her younger son Geta, during
the reign of her erratic older son Bassianus, renamed Antoninus, and
nicknamed by historians Caracalla (though the nickname was occasionally used
at the time).
Alexander's grandmother, Julia Maesa, reclaimed the Imperium from the
equestrian usurper Macrinus, and was the first woman admitted to the senate
for debates. Maesa explicitly ran the empire during the even more erratic
(yet less bloody and more amusing) reign of Alexander's cousin Varius,
renamed Antoninus, nicknamed entirely by later historians Ela- or
Heliogabalus, and at the beginning of the Alexander's reign as well. After
Maesa died (of natural causes), Alexander's mother, Julia Mamaea, ran the
empire as a regent, though not with senatorial privileges like her mother.
Still, it was as a "mama's boy" that Alexander was murdered by his soldiers
on the Rhine frontier, along with Mamaea. How much "trickle-down" effect
these forceful "Syrian Princesses" (in Gibbon's phrase) had on women in
general is debatable, as the anarchy of the next half-century made simple
living difficult, at best.
But it is unlikely that, even having powerful and well-loved personalities,
Juliae Domna, Maesa & Mamaea would have gained the acceptance they did were
it not for some general loosening of gender roles and "places" by the
middle-empire period. At least in my humble Monday-morning
armchair-historian's opinion.
Valete omnes,
GNAEVS IVLIVS STRABO
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Statement of LCS |
| From: |
MarcusAudens@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:43:35 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Citizens of Nova Roma;
Excellent Senator Maximus indeed!! Both he and Senator Strabo and
others have stayed the course to propose new ideas, to move ever more
surely towards concurrence, while the Jr. Consul who is supposed to be
directing these efforts has set upon this idea his Veto, and then sought
refuge because he is afraid that his own words my be used against him.
Hmmmmmm!!! seems as if from the Main List this is clearly understood
even by those who do not have the wide and far-reaching experience
claimed by Junior Consul Sulla.
When such claims are made unasked, justifying one' actions, my mind
turns to a Navy Colleague who once said of a Chief Petty Officer who
claimed the experience and wisdom of 20 years of service, to which the
Chief Warrant Officer replied. "Correction Chief, you demonstrate the
experience of one year 20 times!"
The times that one holds a Magistry is of little consequence if what one
learns about compromise is to Veto a proposal that does not meet his
individual desires, and then isolates himself from criticism for so
doing!
No-one asked for a sob story, and certainly no-one asked for a review of
the Junior Consul's election history. What was asked for was statement
of the reasons for the Veto that he has applied. The response that I
read simply says, " didn't want to take the trouble to find a common
ground, so I vetoed the idea, and went off to feel sorry for myself."
That probably would work in Kindergarten, but will not work in an adult
world.
In my experience here in Nova Roma, I have found that there are very few
citizens that I cannot deal with effectively. While some have more
views in opposition to mine than others that is only to be expected.
However, I find that one of the easiest and most agreeable persons that
I have had the privaledge to work with is the Senior Consul Octavius.
Do we always agree -- No; but we have never not been able too reach a
concurrence pof ideas. When I served as Consul my colleague was Q.
Fabius Maximus, and there were many times when we did not agree,
however, we always managed to reach concurrence on the matters before
us, even if it took a phone call across this country. It was never even
close to necessary to exercise a Veto against the other's action. I
suppose one reason was, because while we sometimes disagree, we still
respect the other's views. My views are often (more often than not) in
concurrence with the majority of those in Nova Roma, for whom I have a
healthy respect. I suppose because most of those people have very
similar standards and principals to mine. However, I cannot remember
the last time that the Junior Consul and I agreed on anything. Now
perhaps that is me and my strange views, but somehow, I don't think so.
So, in the final analysis the Junior Consul has exercised his Veto, and
retreated from the possible criticism of his own words, by those
Citizens who have elected him to the position for which he reminds us
all that he has served two terms. In reviewing the Magistrate's Oath,
that action does not seem to be there. However, what is there is the
suggestion that a Consul should stay on the job, and work at the
problem, until some kind of concurrence is reached to any given problem.
Several Senators have done so, why not an elected Consul?? Junior
Consul Sulla has said that it is the Senior Consul's fault, and the
Senior Consul says that it is not. Considering past problems of this
sort, in whom do you place your trust???
Further, the Junior Consul's attempt to accuse people of being critical
of the Gens Cornelia is not only wrong but insulting. The Gens Cornelia
is a healthy, honorable Gens and one in which I have several good
friends. The Gens Cornelia, citizens, has never been the target of
anything save admiration, at least on my part, and on the part of those
with whom I am pleased to stand. The unerring, unwavering and deserved
target has been Junior Consul Sulla, and for many very good reasons.
The Junior Consul is of the opinion that just because no-one ca prove
wrongdoing, that everyone must forget it. It doesn't work that way!!!!!
There is a little thing like integrity, which is built from a great many
small building blocks along the way, having their beginnings in the
Roman Virtues, and for those not in admiration of these, the other
cultural standards of the various regions of the world which define
honor, dignity, and integrity. These will never in my world include
lying, unstable declarations against one's institution, and deliberate
destruction of the ability of those who have placed him in a position of
authority to work out a method of concurrence for a given problem or
situation.
Perhaps Junior Consul Sulla was correct after all to seek to hide from
criticism. His words of explanation reveal to all a preference to halt
all possible avenues of conjecture, and then "Let George Do It" when the
responsibility was most definately his to take carge of.
Respectfully;
M. Minucius Audens
A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: not getting mail |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:04:29 -0000 |
|
---Salvete Praefectus M. Gallio Marcallas et Omnes:
I have had a few complaints about the service, following a chance of
mail delivery requested, and following unsubscriptions.
I do know that it can take up to two days for things to be executed
by Yahoo.
I think maybe they are going through a busy time of it...when you
consider the number of groups, subscribers, I can see where there
would be a lag.
Things 'usually' end up being done.
My suggestion would be to: Try again, to adjust your settings, and
if there are still no results, I will be happy to proceed in trying
to find out what is happening, for you, and I believe another
gentleman wrote in today 'not' receiving mail.
I hope this helps.
Bene vale,
P. Cornelia
List Moderator et Praetor
In Nova-Roma@y..., Legion XXIV <legionxxiv@c...> wrote:
>
> And in reverse, I went from individual e-mails to digest
> and I am still getting individual postings.
>
> Is there problem here or with Yahoo?
>
> Gallio Marsallas
> www.legionxxiv.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: asseri@a...
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:53 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] not getting mail
>
>
> Salvette,
>
> I changed my settings yesterday from Digest to individual e-mail
however I
> have yet to get a one. Now I know you good citizens are chatting!
>
> Im not sure who to address this to so I risk the wasted bandwidth
on the main
> list. Please could some one help me who knows what to do?
>
>
> Valette
> Prima Fabia Drusila
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] R: appearance in roman film |
| From: |
me-in-@disguise.co.uk |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:42:24 +0100 (BST) |
|
-----Original Message-----
>From : Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
>
>> Please let us know if the film succeeds in it's goal
>> to be played *only* in Latin and Aramaic. (I have a
>> hunch they may add subtitles later.)
>
A little ironic as Latin was probably used only in formal military orders. The one language everybody would have known is Greek - and that is the one not included. It is a thought though that like many modern Europeans, the ancients were frequently trilingual and more. Greek and Latin and it is on record that because the languages were quite similar, many Romans addressed their Gallic slaves in their native tongue.
Derek Jarman made Sebastian in Latin. About the only thing to make it watchable. But that is true of all Jarman's films except for Jubilee.
I recall oldsters who would lapse into 'kitchen Hindi' and some white boys at my school happy to jabber away in kiSwahili if anyone was listening. For that matter, I once walked into the family of one of my brother's friends, father Spanish, to hear at full blast: Radio in French, TV in English, argument between children in English, between husband and wife in Norman-French, cursing in Spanish! Much of the Empire must have been similar.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
"If I am not for myself, who will be? But if I am only for myself, what am I?" - The Rabbi Hillel
--
Personalised email by http://another.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Testing a new address |
| From: |
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:06:25 -0700 (PDT) |
|
I've created this Yahoo account for use with the NR
lists. I'm also still reachable at my usual e-mail
address ( gawne at cesmail dot net ). This is simply
a test to see if this post is accepted by whatever
Powers that lurk within the bowels of Yahoo.
-- Gn. Equitius Marinus
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] LUDI VICTORIA: Ludi Victoriae Cultural Award (LVCA) |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:15:33 +0200 |
|
Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.
The exciting Ludi by Caeso Fabius Quintilianus come back and they are the
last of the 2755. So they'll be the more wonderful and rich of the year with
2 Awards, music, theatre, races, religion, etc.
The first event of this long big program of events see the first, the LUDI
VICTORIAE CULTURAL AWARD (LVCA).
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/cultural_award.htm
**** Regulations ****
1) The literary award, "The Ludi Victoriae Cultural Award" (LVCA) is
supported by Nova Roma and organized by the Cohors Aedilis of Senior Curule
Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus. It is open to all the citizens of Nova
Roma. The task of the contest is to write a text (poetry or novel or text)
about the most imposrtant military and political victories of Roma. The
theme will be:
- ancient roman military victories
- political victories
- roman wars
- roman great heroes
2) The Award is open to single participants or to groups composed of a
maximum of 5 citizens. Each participant or group of participants can
participate with just _one_ work. It isn't allowed to be a member of a group
and participate as a individual at the same time. The contributed work must
be in English, with a maximum of 500 words. These kinds of works are
accepted: novel, poem, drama, tragedy, comedy.
3) Each text must have the following facts about the participant(s): Nova
Roman name, real name, Nova Roman Provinceage, e-mail address.
4) The deadline to send own work is October 18, 2002 (2755 a.u.c.), by
e-mail to sacro_barese_impero@libero.it [Franciscus Apulus Caesar] with the
subject "LVCA".
5) The texts will judged by a Jury composed by the four highest Magistrati
with Imperium (and thereby with the ancient right to lead armies) of our
beloved Res Publica
Each judge in the jury shall value each work following this table of
judgement:
- Contents (0-10 points)
- Roman historical references (0-10 points)
- Language (0-5 points)
- Poetry and dramatization (0-5 points)
- Specific references to roman victories (0-10 points)
5 a) The points from all judges are summarized and this sum will decide who
will win.
5 b) The judgements of the jury are un-impugnable.
6) The winner of the Victoriae Cultural Award will be published at the
Cohors Aedilis Website - Section Ludi and at the Main Mailing List of Nova
Roma and as a virtual Diploma.
7) The texts will be archived by the Ludi organization. The participants
give the copyrights of their text to Nova Roma accepting this regulation.
This Regulation is accepted by taking part of the "the Ludi Victoriae
Cultural Award" (LVCA).
8) The winner shall be announced on the Cohors Aedilis Website - Section
Ludi and at the Nova Roman Main Mailing List at October 22, 2002.
-----------------
Informations:
- Victoriae c/o Cohors Aedilis - Section Ludi:
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoriae/
- Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus: tjalens.h@telia.com
- Quaestor Franciscus Apulus Caesar: sacro_barese_impero@libero.it
-----------------
Please, take it, this is the last opportunity to show your literary skilss.
.... Maybe our sons remember you as a famous latin writer!!! ;-)
Valete bene
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Web Nova Roman Experiments - http://lab.novaroma.org/wnre
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Land Project Lists |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 01 Oct 2002 22:25:17 -0000 |
|
AVETE OMNES
As Research Officer of the Egressus/Land Project Department I had
the task of checking the archives of the NRLand Project mailing list
and of the "old" NR Main List, in order to write a list composed of
the proposals that have been made up to now about purchasing land for
our Res Publica.
Following Illustris Marcus Minucius Audens' suggestion, I wrote a
list composed of three parts: a "Must have" part, a "Should have"
part, and a "Nice to have" part.
In this way we should have a clearer idea of what we are looking for.
The second one id the "Land Purchasing List", composed of proposals,
suggestions or considerations as to where the land should be settled
and which features should/could have.
The third one is the "Financial Proposals List", composed of
proposals, suggestions or considerations about fund rising.
You can find these three list into the file section of the Sodalitas
Egressus Mailing List.
To be a member of the Sodalitas Egressus you just need to send a
message to Beneficarius Strabo at Egressus_Romanus@yahoo.ca
including your Novaroman name, your Provincia and your e-mail address.
OPTIME VALETE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Legatvs Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs
Scriba Aedilis Plebis Cicatricis
-----------------------
PROVINCIA ITALIA
http://italia.novaroma.org
-----------------------
ADMINISTRATIO AEDILIS PLEBIS CICATRICIS
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/aediliscicatrix.html
|
