Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 00:08:55 -0000

Salve Senator Audens,

Aramaic, or more specifically, "Imperial Aramaic" was the official
language of the Persian Empire. The Israelites would have started to
gradually use Aramaic during the Babylonian Exile, and then even more
during the Persian Period. {The book of Ezra preserves Persian
Decrees in Aramaic} Hebrew began to fall out of use, which explains
why the Targums were produced.
Greek of course spread after the conquest of Alexander and the
subsequent Hellenistic Period.
It is reasonable to conjecture that Jesus of Nazareth knew and used
both Aramaic and a common form of Greek. Nazareth was no backwater,
but was situated along the ancient trade routes, and was only 7 miles
from a major Greek city, Sephoris. People living there would likely
had to know both, or at least to be able to speak them if not read or
write in them.

Nerva

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., MarcusAudens@w... wrote:
> In regard to the above topic, I believe the Coptic Monks speak and teach
> this language. I know thatbcertain of them as Master Nerva has
> indicated research extensively in existing archives which are written in
> this language.
>
> It is a supposition that such is the language that Jesus of Nazereth
> spoke in to his followers, and to his close associates and his family.
> Considering the numerous languages which were extent in this period and
> in this region, such a supposition is not entirely impossible.
>
> Respectfully;
>
> M. Minucius Audens
>
> A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
> white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
> gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
> flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
> Seas!!!


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New Citizen
From:	"Marcus Africanus Secundus" <markginjax@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 02 Oct 2002 20:43:09 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@a...>
wrote:
>
> Welcome to Nova Roma, Marcus Africanus Secundus. We all
have our
> strengths and weaknesses. I promise to not ask you to spell if
you
> promise to never ask me to demonstrate my dancing ability (or
rather
> the lack) <GRIN>.
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
Thank you so very much.
Speaking of dancing did the ancient romans dance, I had heard
they did not like actors much, but were there roman dances?

Marcus Africanus Secundus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic
From:	"Marcus Africanus Secundus" <markginjax@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 02 Oct 2002 20:50:21 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., MarcusAudens@w... wrote:
> In regard to the above topic, I believe the Coptic Monks speak
and teach
> this language. I know thatbcertain of them as Master Nerva
has
> indicated research extensively in existing archives which are
written in
> this language.

I had thought also about the coptic monks but also do not some
East Orthodox churches use aramaic in there services? I think I
read about the Syrian Orthodox Church in regards to this.

Marcus Africanus Secundus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: New Citizen, Women
From:	MLCRASSVS@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:05:26 EDT

MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS GNAEO IVILIO STRABO S.P.D.

AVE,

Welcome brother Roman!

May I convey my warmest congratulations to you on the formal conferral of
Roman citizenship to you - welcome to Nova Roma! As a new citizen myself, I
am sure this is a proud and exciting moment - one to be savoured.

May I thank you for a most informative post - I see you already have a
knowledge of antiquity, no bad thing since it means you can 'hit the ground
running' as it were. I'm sure that you are keen to become part of Rome and
you will find, as many have said before me, that here in Nova Roma there are
many ways you can do that just peruse the main web site. Main thing is not
to be afraid to ask or join in.

You have just helped Rome grow a little stronger - congratulations again!

VALE

M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS
CIVIS NOVAE ROMAE

TVVS IN SODOLICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE
(Yours in the solidarity of the Roman Republic)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 01:18:19 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Marcus Africanus Secundus" <markginjax@y...>
wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., MarcusAudens@w... wrote:
> > In regard to the above topic, I believe the Coptic Monks speak
> and teach
> > this language. I know thatbcertain of them as Master Nerva
> has
> > indicated research extensively in existing archives which are
> written in
> > this language.
>
> I had thought also about the coptic monks but also do not some
> East Orthodox churches use aramaic in there services? I think I
> read about the Syrian Orthodox Church in regards to this.
>
> Marcus Africanus Secundus

Salve,

I'm not 100% sure about the Syrian Orthodox Church, but I suspect
you're correct as the Aramiac, Syrian, and Malankarese Rites within
the Catholic Church use Aramiac as their Liturgical Language. The
two other Syrian Rites with in the Catholic Church (Chaldean and Syro-
Malabarese) primarily use Arabic and Syriac as their Liturgical
Language.

I believe that Coptic is a seperate language than Aramaic and that
Coptic came as a result of the Egyptians coming in contact with the
Greeks and the subsequent "cultural contamination" where the old
Egyptian heiroglyphic writing was replaced by the more easy to write
(though in contrast to the heiroglyphs less artistic in my opinion)
Greek alphabet. I might be wrong since I'm relying on memory.

Vale,

Q, Cassius Calvus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Statement of LCS
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 01:18:04 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> >
> Anyone is more than welcome to look over my earlier
> postings. You'll find that the only person I developed
> a personal dislike for was Formosanus.
>
> My feelings about Senator Audens are largely neutral,
> though I do consider him to be an honest man who would
> never make a mockary of his duties as a Paterfamilis
> and a Senator by engaging in skulldugary, like
> refusing to cast a vote in the Senate supporting a
> member of his Gens in order to create a pretext for a
> staged mass resignation.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>

Salve Druse!

My feelings about Senator Audens are quite different to yours as I
both like and respect him. He is - as you say - an honest man, who
has indeed never made a mockery of his duties in - and I presume -
also outside Nova Roma. Formosanus, well, is and was a difficult man
with strong convictions.

Your insinuations regarding myself are however completeley unfounded.
But it is nonetheless good to know you believe it that way, because
it gives me a chance to set the record straight (as I have done btw
many times before).

FYI I never voted in this fabled Senate vote for my then daughter
Marcia Livia, only because I was in Luxemburg at the time in
connection with a European Court of Justice case and could not get
Internet access during the weekend. It had nothing to do with the
Ides of March resignations. Those were not staged before the vote but
developed AFTER it was over and in a very hurried fashion. I also did
not break any oath as I had resigned from my post as governor before
that (an intention long made public before the vote). Please ask your
good friends in the Senate, whether that is an honest answer.

Oh and btw do you use the word "skulldugary" often? I did not know it
and had to look it up in a dictionary (it is spelled skullduggery
there). It gives me great relief that you are more familiar with it
than I am.

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Chatroom
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:50:08 -0700

Avete Omnes,

I just wanted to invite everyone and anyone to please visit the Nova Roma chatroom. This evening I had a very pleasant chat with Senator Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus. Hopefully, tomorrow evening I will be back and it would be a pleasure to chat with anyone.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Inappropriate discussion.
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:06:38 +0100 (BST)

Salvete,

As one who has worked within a medical profession for
nearly ten years, I must state that I most strongly
object to the very public discussion of an individuals
medical history, if without the individuals concerned
expressed consent. It is inappropriate and
unnecessary.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

__________________________________________________
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Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] De Absentia L. Armini Fausti
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 02:30:01 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Amice,

I am pleased to hear that you have found a new job!! Good luck!!

Vale,

--- Lucius Arminius Faustus <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
>
> Salvete cives,
>
>
>
> <ENGLISH>
>
> De Absentia L. Armini Fausti
>
> Due to very good professional changes (new job, YEAH!!! Queen Minerva smiled
> me this week!), I will be a little bit away of NR lists this month ahead, but
> be not worried, I�m still alive and expect to serve the Res Publica on the
> best of my (now very small... snif) time!
>
> But when I pass the �adaptation period� I sure will get back to the hard
> work!
>
>
>
> <PORTUGU�S>
>
>
>
> Da Ausencia de L. Arminius Faustus
>
> Devido a mudan�as profissionais muito boas (um novo emprego, A Rainha Minerva
> me sorriu esta semana!) eu estarei um pouco de fora das listas de NR este
> pr�ximo m�s - mas n�o se preocupem, ainda estou vivo e espero servir a
> Republica no melhor do meu (agora pouco) tempo!
>
> Mas quando passar o �per�odo de adapta��o� tenho certeza que voltarei ao
> trabalho duro. Ali�s, s� para os brasileiros, d�em uma olhada no rascunho de
> nossa nova p�gina provincial em:
> http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/nrbrasil/index.html e tamb�m visitem e
> prestigiem nosso Templo Virtual em
> http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/aedes/aedes.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Vale bene in pacem deorum,
>
>
>
> L. Arminius Faustus
>
> Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.
>
> Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)
>
> Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html
>
>
>
> Se de �cio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,
>
> Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...
>
> Satira Quarta, Hor�cio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! GeoCities
> Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas f�ceis de usar, espa�o de sobra e
> acess�rios.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Inappropriate discussion.
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:00:25 -0000

---Salve Deci Iuni:

Indeed, I must give you a 'me too' on this one. I am a nurse, circa
14 years, and uttering statements publically, and even privately for
the wrong reasons,with respect to other's medical histories is a
violaton of my oath as a nurse, and is conduct for which I could
receive legal retributions and/or a preprimand from the Colleges
which hold my nursing licensure.

P. Cornelia R.N. Michigan et Ontario

In Nova-Roma@y..., Decimus Iunius Silanus <danedwardsuk@y...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> As one who has worked within a medical profession for
> nearly ten years, I must state that I most strongly
> object to the very public discussion of an individuals
> medical history, if without the individuals concerned
> expressed consent. It is inappropriate and
> unnecessary.
>
> Valete
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Inappropriate discussion.
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:08:03 +0200

pompeia_cornelia wrote:
> Indeed, I must give you a 'me too' on this one. I am a nurse, circa
> 14 years, and uttering statements publically, and even privately for
> the wrong reasons,with respect to other's medical histories is a
> violaton of my oath as a nurse, and is conduct for which I could
> receive legal retributions and/or a preprimand from the Colleges
> which hold my nursing licensure.

In Nova-Roma@y..., Decimus Iunius Silanus <danedwardsuk@y...> wrote:
> As one who has worked within a medical profession for
> nearly ten years, I must state that I most strongly
> object to the very public discussion of an individuals
> medical history, if without the individuals concerned
> expressed consent. It is inappropriate and
> unnecessary.

Salvete, omnes.

Just as a gentle reminder...in this discussion, this point was raised by
the opponents of Sulla. In the last one, it was raised by his defenders,
and that was where I first heard about it. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't
have been raised here at all unless "his side" had chosen to bring it up
as an excuse earlier. This as I'm very confident in the dignitas of the
citizens who brought it up this time.

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 183
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@starpower.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:12:55 -0400

Salvete,

Of course the fact that the subject of the discussion made the facts public
first has nothing to do with whether or not medical treatment should be
discussed?
Truly health care professionals have ethical concerns, but for the rest of
us it is only a matter of dignity.

Valete, Lucius Equitius
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 25
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:06:38 +0100 (BST)
From: Decimus Iunius Silanus <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Inappropriate discussion.

Salvete,

As one who has worked within a medical profession for
nearly ten years, I must state that I most strongly
object to the very public discussion of an individuals
medical history, if without the individuals concerned
expressed consent. It is inappropriate and
unnecessary.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Inappropriate discussion.
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:15:26 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Praetrix Pompeia Cornelia,

> Indeed, I must give you a 'me too' on this one.

Unexpected as this may come, I must agree with you. Let us
put an end to this undignified subject.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Apology
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:49:50 -0400 (EDT)

Master Nero;

As I have said many times here on this net, everyone is certainly free
to disagree with me, as I am to disagree with them.

I do not agree with your views, since I probably have a greater insight
into Junior Consul Sulla than many people, for a variety of reasons,
even though we have not met.

However, at your request I have reviewed both of my posts, one regarding
Junior Consul Sulla, and the post regarding friendship. After a careful
re-reading of both, I cannot agree with your premise, as the Junior
Consul himself gave as an excuse for his outburst on the internet
(resignation and riducule of Nova Roma), his involvement with drugs for
his illness. To my mind when that information is released publicly, it
is then in the public domain.

I am somewhat surprised, with your obvious intelligence and perception,
at your defense of the Junior Consul, and his antics, but then everyone
has thier own standards and principles, and far be it from me to
question those of another citizen, unless, in my view, such harms the
Republic.

Should you wish to pursue this thread further, I would recommend that
you take it off-list, as I have nothing further to say regarding this
topic in the public forum.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic
From:	"Numerius Cassius Niger" <menippus@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:31:53 -0000

I find it interesting that I speak a little Aramaic every Friday
night when I recite the Kaddish at synagogue. I find that the
suffixes and plurals that differ from Hebrew give the prayer
a "quaint" feeling. (Of course, the Kaddish was composed in Aramaic
because that was the vernacular language of the time. I have never
come across any attempt to recite the prayer in a modern-day
vernacular, strangely enough.)Considering the word "Amen" is
Aramaic, it could be argued that many, many Christian denominations
use some Aramaic in their services. :)

And you are correct, Cassius Calvus, Coptic is a mostly Egyptian
language written with a modified Greek alphabet to accommodate the
Hamito-Semitic phonemes (such as the letters Kabba, Hory, Tsheema,
and Fay).

N. Cassius Niger


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Apology
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:55:55 +0100 (BST)

Salvete

Again I must protest. If an individual wishes to make
it publically known that he or she has suffered from,
or is currently suffering from, an illness of any
kind, this does not automatically make it the business
of others.Further, the Junior Consul has made it
perfectly cl ear that he feels that the decision to
veto was correct and consequently stands by that
decision. No reference to illness of any kind was made
by the Consul with regards to that decision. It is
therefore inappropriate for anyone else to do so. It
has absolutely no relation to the topic at hand.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

>However, at your request I have reviewed both of my
>posts, one regarding
>Junior Consul Sulla, and the post regarding
>friendship.After a careful
>re-reading of both, I cannot agree with your premise,
>as the Junior
>Consul himself gave as an excuse for his outburst on
>the internet
>(resignation and riducule of Nova Roma), his
>involvement with drugs for
>his illness.To my mind when that information
>is released publicly, it
>is then in the public domain.

__________________________________________________
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Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Impressed?
From:	"R. Jason Boss" <bigbrother@jrboss.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:09:56 -0400

Salvete.

Well, after a week or two on this list it seems I've learned something
new after all - if the Romans were masters of sarcasm and increasingly
veiled insults and backhanded compliments, truly they are being emulated
here.
In one particularly impressively jarring post, we see nestled among a
number of welcomes to the list in which a new member is exhorted to not be
concerned with his trouble spelling an insult to another list member based
on a misspelling. This is not meant to offend or single out any one person,
it just came of reading all this in digest mode and seeing the threads
interweave.
I'm hardly shocked, as every organization has its interpersonal
dysfunction, but I am surprised at some of the otherwise eloquent and
clearly intelligent individuals present for being so quick to not only make
assumptions about other citizens or office-holders, but also to resort to
insults that I find essentially childish. Just because sarcasm or complex
language is used in an insult does not make the one doing the insulting any
less at fault. If communication and mutual understanding is sought, while
passion for issues at hand is of course desirable, perhaps moderation in
speech would be welcome?
I'm referring to a minority of postings, I realize, but from my
perspective - that of a new citizen who has been interested in Nova Roma for
a number of years - it is a significant number. Research in the field of
election campaigning suggests, I might add, that insults and negative
language traded between those in or seeking political office tend to turn
away citizens from their desire to participate in a system. NR is still
small, but this is something of which we should be aware.
As a novice poster hear I do not expect my posting to be taken well, if
taken at all, but I would be remiss in my civic duty if I did not speak my
mind. My interest in American politics for a long time soured because of
personal attacks (rarely as subtle as even the rather obvious to me ones
here) and mudslinging, I certainly don't want to see the same thing here.

Valete.
][asonus
Marcus Velius Iasonus
bigbrother@jrboss.net


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:28:21 -0000

Salve Numeri Cassi Niger et omnes,

In the Christian New Testament, Jesus gave the story of a poor man
left beaten on the road and passed by by everyone. Finally a
Samaritan came buy, bound his wounds, looked after him etc. This was
done to teach his followers who your neigbour really is and clearly
shows that racism, intolerance and such is not compatible with
Christianity(even though some of us seem to overlook this).

I did some reading about the Samaritans and found out that they were
Judeans or Jewish people that had intermarried with the Assyrians
whilst under their domination. Therefore they were seen as old
collaberators or dirty laundry; they were therefore looked down upon
by the rest of the Judean populace. Now if this is so, I am amazed
that Aramaic was spoken by Christ and much of the Jewish population
in that area. Was the Amaraic spoken by your every day working guy
while Hebrew was only for the more educated elite and temple area or
were the 2 languages inseperable after many years of Assyrian
domination? In the markets and everday business was the language
Greek? When Pontius Pilate and other Romans dealt with the Jewish
authorities, was the language probably Greek?

This question is of course to all but I greatly respect Numeri
knowledge in this area. He is a good start.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Numerius Cassius Niger" <menippus@a...> wrote:
> I find it interesting that I speak a little Aramaic every Friday
> night when I recite the Kaddish at synagogue. I find that the
> suffixes and plurals that differ from Hebrew give the prayer
> a "quaint" feeling. (Of course, the Kaddish was composed in Aramaic
> because that was the vernacular language of the time. I have never
> come across any attempt to recite the prayer in a modern-day
> vernacular, strangely enough.)Considering the word "Amen" is
> Aramaic, it could be argued that many, many Christian denominations
> use some Aramaic in their services. :)
>
> And you are correct, Cassius Calvus, Coptic is a mostly Egyptian
> language written with a modified Greek alphabet to accommodate the
> Hamito-Semitic phonemes (such as the letters Kabba, Hory, Tsheema,
> and Fay).
>
> N. Cassius Niger


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Impressed?
From:	"Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:30:03 -0400

Salve Iasonus:

To a certain extent, you echo a frustration I've been having, and I do wonder if others have been feeling it as well. If we sit idle and watch the non-productive posts, we run the risk of being accused of complacency and, through that, complicity. If we comment on them, we run the risk of adding yet more fuel to a fire; for example, I've seen more meta-discussion on the topic of discussing illnesses than I recall seeing about the original illness -- and now this stands, I suppose, as meta-meta-discussion. Enjoy your raw onion. ;) Most of this, I suppose, is a feature of e-lists, and the best tack is usually to ignore the meta-discussion as much as possible; another factor perhaps particular to this group is the presence of many intelligent, strongly opinionated people, which is both a good and a dangerous thing. =)

Vale,
Festus

Salvete.

Well, after a week or two on this list it seems I've learned something
new after all - if the Romans were masters of sarcasm and increasingly
veiled insults and backhanded compliments, truly they are being emulated
here. Valete.
][asonus
Marcus Velius Iasonus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:34:30 -0700

Avete Q. Lanius,

Just a slight correction, the Samaritans were not Jews. They were Israelites who mingled and intermarried with the populace that was transported by the Assyrians.

The Israelites split with the Jews at the Death of Solomon. The Northern Kingdom (Israel) was similar but a separate political entity from the State of Judah.

Most Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language

Salve Numeri Cassi Niger et omnes,

In the Christian New Testament, Jesus gave the story of a poor man
left beaten on the road and passed by by everyone. Finally a
Samaritan came buy, bound his wounds, looked after him etc. This was
done to teach his followers who your neigbour really is and clearly
shows that racism, intolerance and such is not compatible with
Christianity(even though some of us seem to overlook this).

I did some reading about the Samaritans and found out that they were
Judeans or Jewish people that had intermarried with the Assyrians
whilst under their domination. Therefore they were seen as old
collaberators or dirty laundry; they were therefore looked down upon
by the rest of the Judean populace. Now if this is so, I am amazed
that Aramaic was spoken by Christ and much of the Jewish population
in that area. Was the Amaraic spoken by your every day working guy
while Hebrew was only for the more educated elite and temple area or
were the 2 languages inseperable after many years of Assyrian
domination? In the markets and everday business was the language
Greek? When Pontius Pilate and other Romans dealt with the Jewish
authorities, was the language probably Greek?

This question is of course to all but I greatly respect Numeri
knowledge in this area. He is a good start.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Numerius Cassius Niger" <menippus@a...> wrote:
> I find it interesting that I speak a little Aramaic every Friday
> night when I recite the Kaddish at synagogue. I find that the
> suffixes and plurals that differ from Hebrew give the prayer
> a "quaint" feeling. (Of course, the Kaddish was composed in Aramaic
> because that was the vernacular language of the time. I have never
> come across any attempt to recite the prayer in a modern-day
> vernacular, strangely enough.)Considering the word "Amen" is
> Aramaic, it could be argued that many, many Christian denominations
> use some Aramaic in their services. :)
>
> And you are correct, Cassius Calvus, Coptic is a mostly Egyptian
> language written with a modified Greek alphabet to accommodate the
> Hamito-Semitic phonemes (such as the letters Kabba, Hory, Tsheema,
> and Fay).
>
> N. Cassius Niger


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:49:06 -0700

Ave, Q. Lanius et Omnes,

I apologize for not answering your question in my previous post. I hope my answers assist you.

Was the Amaraic spoken by your every day working guy
while Hebrew was only for the more educated elite and temple area or
were the 2 languages inseperable after many years of Assyrian
domination?

In my opinion, the answer is yes, Aramaic was spoken by your everyday Judah Ben Hur. Hebrew, espeically by the time of the Roman Occupation was a ceremonial language utilized at religious ceremonies at the Temple and probably at the local synogague level and at such events as Bris and Bar Mitzvah's (sp.).

In the markets and everday business was the language
Greek?

It is my opinion, that it would be both Greek and Aramaic. In Jerusalem, which was quite a Metropolis, you would certainly find many more people who spoke Greek than say if you were in Beer Sheba or Arad (near the Dead Sea).

When Pontius Pilate and other Romans dealt with the Jewish
authorities, was the language probably Greek?

I believe it would have been Greek. Greek influence in Palestine became very prominent after Alexander the Great acquired the region during his conquest of the Persian Empire. Once Alexander died, the Ptolemy's gained the region and there was, according to my research, good relations between the Ptolemies and the Jewish population.

This question is of course to all but I greatly respect Numeri
knowledge in this area. He is a good start.

I hope this helps you.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Numerius Cassius Niger" <menippus@a...> wrote:
> I find it interesting that I speak a little Aramaic every Friday
> night when I recite the Kaddish at synagogue. I find that the
> suffixes and plurals that differ from Hebrew give the prayer
> a "quaint" feeling. (Of course, the Kaddish was composed in Aramaic
> because that was the vernacular language of the time. I have never
> come across any attempt to recite the prayer in a modern-day
> vernacular, strangely enough.)Considering the word "Amen" is
> Aramaic, it could be argued that many, many Christian denominations
> use some Aramaic in their services. :)
>
> And you are correct, Cassius Calvus, Coptic is a mostly Egyptian
> language written with a modified Greek alphabet to accommodate the
> Hamito-Semitic phonemes (such as the letters Kabba, Hory, Tsheema,
> and Fay).
>
> N. Cassius Niger


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Impressed?
From:	Jenny Harris <J.Harris@awgais.com>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:01:50 -0600

Salve Iasonus,

Your concerns are indeed valid, after being here for four years and finally
realizing that this list will always be
Politcally motivated no matter what. I've learned also that there is a need
for a humorous/sarcastic side. Think about
It, this particular forum without any levity of humor at all I shudder to
think of the possibilities. But you are also
Correct it should not be to the point of insulting. Finding the commongroud
of communication where everything
Can be taken with a grain of salt, or at least not be afraid to comment
without harsh disagreement. I feel, and it is
Also my humble opinion, will be a long way off.

Bene Vale,
Aeternia
-----Original Message-----
From: R. Jason Boss [mailto:bigbrother@jrboss.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:10 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Impressed?

Salvete.

Well, after a week or two on this list it seems I've
learned something
new after all - if the Romans were masters of sarcasm and
increasingly
veiled insults and backhanded compliments, truly they are
being emulated
here.
In one particularly impressively jarring post, we see
nestled among a
number of welcomes to the list in which a new member is
exhorted to not be
concerned with his trouble spelling an insult to another
list member based
on a misspelling. This is not meant to offend or single out
any one person,
it just came of reading all this in digest mode and seeing
the threads
interweave.
I'm hardly shocked, as every organization has its
interpersonal
dysfunction, but I am surprised at some of the otherwise
eloquent and
clearly intelligent individuals present for being so quick
to not only make
assumptions about other citizens or office-holders, but also
to resort to
insults that I find essentially childish. Just because
sarcasm or complex
language is used in an insult does not make the one doing
the insulting any
less at fault. If communication and mutual understanding is
sought, while
passion for issues at hand is of course desirable, perhaps
moderation in
speech would be welcome?
I'm referring to a minority of postings, I realize, but
from my
perspective - that of a new citizen who has been interested
in Nova Roma for
a number of years - it is a significant number. Research in
the field of
election campaigning suggests, I might add, that insults and
negative
language traded between those in or seeking political office
tend to turn
away citizens from their desire to participate in a system.
NR is still
small, but this is something of which we should be aware.
As a novice poster hear I do not expect my posting to be
taken well, if
taken at all, but I would be remiss in my civic duty if I
did not speak my
mind. My interest in American politics for a long time
soured because of
personal attacks (rarely as subtle as even the rather
obvious to me ones
here) and mudslinging, I certainly don't want to see the
same thing here.

Valete.
][asonus
Marcus Velius Iasonus
bigbrother@jrboss.net


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 17:16:03 -0000

Salve Senator Cornelius,

Thank you for your answers. They sure help. I'll try and get on chat
this evening. We should all be utilizing it more.

Yours respectfully, Quintus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave, Q. Lanius et Omnes,
>
> I apologize for not answering your question in my previous post. I
hope my answers assist you.
>
> Was the Amaraic spoken by your every day working guy
> while Hebrew was only for the more educated elite and temple area
or
> were the 2 languages inseperable after many years of Assyrian
> domination?
>
> In my opinion, the answer is yes, Aramaic was spoken by your
everyday Judah Ben Hur. Hebrew, espeically by the time of the Roman
Occupation was a ceremonial language utilized at religious ceremonies
at the Temple and probably at the local synogague level and at such
events as Bris and Bar Mitzvah's (sp.).
>
> In the markets and everday business was the language
> Greek?
>
> It is my opinion, that it would be both Greek and Aramaic. In
Jerusalem, which was quite a Metropolis, you would certainly find
many more people who spoke Greek than say if you were in Beer Sheba
or Arad (near the Dead Sea).
>
> When Pontius Pilate and other Romans dealt with the Jewish
> authorities, was the language probably Greek?
>
> I believe it would have been Greek. Greek influence in Palestine
became very prominent after Alexander the Great acquired the region
during his conquest of the Persian Empire. Once Alexander died, the
Ptolemy's gained the region and there was, according to my research,
good relations between the Ptolemies and the Jewish population.
>
> This question is of course to all but I greatly respect Numeri
> knowledge in this area. He is a good start.
>
> I hope this helps you.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Numerius Cassius Niger" <menippus@a...>
wrote:
> > I find it interesting that I speak a little Aramaic every Friday
> > night when I recite the Kaddish at synagogue. I find that the
> > suffixes and plurals that differ from Hebrew give the prayer
> > a "quaint" feeling. (Of course, the Kaddish was composed in
Aramaic
> > because that was the vernacular language of the time. I have
never
> > come across any attempt to recite the prayer in a modern-day
> > vernacular, strangely enough.)Considering the word "Amen" is
> > Aramaic, it could be argued that many, many Christian
denominations
> > use some Aramaic in their services. :)
> >
> > And you are correct, Cassius Calvus, Coptic is a mostly Egyptian
> > language written with a modified Greek alphabet to accommodate
the
> > Hamito-Semitic phonemes (such as the letters Kabba, Hory,
Tsheema,
> > and Fay).
> >
> > N. Cassius Niger
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] question
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:35:31 EDT

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus to his cousin G. Galerius Peregrinator. Salve.

I shall check with my local library to get the author for you. There is some
useful information on the toga, himation, and pallium in Volume 1 of Herbert
Norris' HISTORY OF COSTUME. I have worn both the mid-Republic toga and the
4th century toga and found these to be the easiest to handle. La Wren's Nest
has a combo deal on a tunica and toga but I find their price a bit much.
Peter Conelly's books have some good diagrams of the Imperial toga. Vale.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:07:48 EDT

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus concerning the current thread. Salve.

According to one of my classmates, a Samaritan, they confirm to the greater
body of the Jewish faith & law except in two important regards. One, a
single annual sacrifice of a lamb in the ancient fashion found in Genesis
Two, they believe that Mt. Sinai is not the sacred mountain. Now I thought
that this was a simplistic explanation back in 1980 but have never really
looked into it very much. In regards, to the Aramaic language, it is still
used today in various liturgies including the Assyrian rite of the Nestorian
Church and it was the language of Herod the Great. His family were not of
the 12 Tribes but came from outside to rule Judea in the first century B.C.
after the Maccabees had been eliminated. Of course, Herod the
Great was a fantastic politician and diplomat who managed to maintain his
independence under Pompey, Caesar, Antony & Cleopatra, and Augustus. He also
had some fantastic archaeological sites credited to him--Masada, Caesarea
Maritima, Samaria.
It is always a good idea to remember that while Old Rome is our central
focus, there were a number of advanced cultures that remained independent
during its height--Axum, Yemen, Judea (until Augustus), Dacia (until Trajan),
Parthian Persia.
Just a few quick thoughts during lunch.

Vale.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 18:10:22 -0000

Salve Senator Corneli,

So then the Samaritans or partial Isrealites as you say would not
have worshiped Yaweh or would there relgion have been a mixture of
Judeaism and pagan beliefs something analagous the indigenous people
of South America that mixed old paganism with Catholicism today?

Yours respectfully,

Quintus

> Avete Q. Lanius,
>
> Just a slight correction, the Samaritans were not Jews. They were
Israelites who mingled and intermarried with the populace that was
transported by the Assyrians.
>
> The Israelites split with the Jews at the Death of Solomon. The
Northern Kingdom (Israel) was similar but a separate political entity
from the State of Judah.
>
> Most Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:28 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
>
>Snip to condense


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:02:44 -0700

Ave Quintus,

The Samaritans would have, according to the books of Ezra and Nemeiah, a tendency to mix the worship of G-d with the beliefs of their native beliefs. I believe that this contributed (but was not the only factor) to the conflict between Samaritan and Jew once the Jews returned after the takeover of Babylon by Persia.

I would need to research a bit but according to those books they state the nationalities of the new immigrants to the region.

I hope this information answers your inquiry.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:10 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language

Salve Senator Corneli,

So then the Samaritans or partial Isrealites as you say would not
have worshiped Yaweh or would there relgion have been a mixture of
Judeaism and pagan beliefs something analagous the indigenous people
of South America that mixed old paganism with Catholicism today?

Yours respectfully,

Quintus

> Avete Q. Lanius,
>
> Just a slight correction, the Samaritans were not Jews. They were
Israelites who mingled and intermarried with the populace that was
transported by the Assyrians.
>
> The Israelites split with the Jews at the Death of Solomon. The
Northern Kingdom (Israel) was similar but a separate political entity
from the State of Judah.
>
> Most Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:28 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
>
>Snip to condense


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:24:57 -0000

Salve Senator Corneli,

That answers all my questions. Again thanks a lot. That ties
everything together now. I'll hit the books and try to learn more
about these times also.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave Quintus,
>
> The Samaritans would have, according to the books of Ezra and
Nemeiah, a tendency to mix the worship of G-d with the beliefs of
their native beliefs. I believe that this contributed (but was not
the only factor) to the conflict between Samaritan and Jew once the
Jews returned after the takeover of Babylon by Persia.
>
> I would need to research a bit but according to those books they
state the nationalities of the new immigrants to the region.
>
> I hope this information answers your inquiry.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:10 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
>
>
> Salve Senator Corneli,
>
> So then the Samaritans or partial Isrealites as you say would not
> have worshiped Yaweh or would there relgion have been a mixture
of
> Judeaism and pagan beliefs something analagous the indigenous
people
> of South America that mixed old paganism with Catholicism today?
>
> Yours respectfully,
>
> Quintus
>
>
> > Avete Q. Lanius,
> >
> > Just a slight correction, the Samaritans were not Jews. They
were
> Israelites who mingled and intermarried with the populace that
was
> transported by the Assyrians.
> >
> > The Israelites split with the Jews at the Death of Solomon.
The
> Northern Kingdom (Israel) was similar but a separate political
entity
> from the State of Judah.
> >
> > Most Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> > To: Nova-Roma@y...
> > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:28 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
> >
> >Snip to condense
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
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Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Online Store Set-up Site
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 17:09:55 -0500

Salvete Omnes,
I just saw a story on Call For Help on Tech TV about a
site that help and host a Online Store. It is called Cafe
Press. Here is it's address:

http://www.cafepress.com

Here is a quote from their about page:

> By using our service, companies, as well as individuals and groups,
> can sell a wide variety of merchandise profitably without the typical
> hassles and overhead of doing business online. CafePress.com manages
> every aspect of doing business online, including online storefront
> development and management, product manufacturing and sourcing,
> fulfillment, and customer service. By using our services,
> organizations are able to generate new streams of bottom-line revenue
> and build community through creative merchandising with no upfront
> cost.

It look's like good way to set-up a small online store to promote NR
with T-Shirt's, Mugs, Mousepads, Bags and such.

Sextus Cornelius Cotta

--
Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma

iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Online Store Set-up Site
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:09:55 -0500


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: [Egressus] Online Store Set-up Site
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:14:29 -0500

Sorry about the double posting's.

Sextus Cornelius Cotta

--
Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma

iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Impressed? Not in the Least !!!
From:	Legion XXIV <legionxxiv@comcast.net>
Date:	Thu, 03 Oct 2002 18:15:40 -0400

I turned-off the NovaRoma Main List some time ago for this reason,
as it was filling my mailbox with petty, on-going, and at times, non-relevant
and non-productive personal diatribes and arguments.
I returned at some urging and because Legion XXIV is a sponsored unit of NR and should be staying apprised of what NR is doing and planning.

But I find that the same problems still persist. I have been told by some
prospective NovaRoma applicants that they have not joined NR because
of their displeasure at what they have seen on the Main List.

We need to correct this. The "List" is a "Window" on NovaRoma!
Prospective Members look through that window to "view" NovaRoma.
We are not presenting a good view through "That Window"!!

The veto issue is Stale! Give It a Bone! and move on and or
Take It Off the List!!! Because - Frankly Sir / My Dear - Most of Us,
Most of the Time - Don't Give a Damn about your petty piques and
quarrels.

It is about time we cleaned-up and improved that "View" of NovaRoma visible through the "List Window".

In Strength and Honor

George Metz aka Gallio Velius Marsallas, Legion XXIV

----- Orig. inal Message -----
From: Paul Kershaw
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Impressed?

Salve Iasonus:

To a certain extent, you echo a frustration I've been having, and I do wonder if others have been feeling it as well. If we sit idle and watch the non-productive posts, we run the risk of being accused of complacency and, through that, complicity. If we comment on them, we run the risk of adding yet more fuel to a fire; for example, I've seen more meta-discussion on the topic of discussing illnesses than I recall seeing about the original illness -- and now this stands, I suppose, as meta-meta-discussion. Enjoy your raw onion. ;) Most of this, I suppose, is a feature of e-lists, and the best tack is usually to ignore the meta-discussion as much as possible; another factor perhaps particular to this group is the presence of many intelligent, strongly opinionated people, which is both a good and a dangerous thing. =)

Vale,
Festus

Salvete.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]