Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Online Store Set-up Site
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:16:29 EDT

Salvete,

Cafe Press has been looked into a couple of times over the last four years.
Frankly, I think they're a rip off.

They charge an above average price for printing stock with your custom logo
when a customer orders. ($21.00 for a T-shirt that ought to sell for around
$12.95 at most, shipping extra!) Their commissions paid are abysmally low.
(Nova Roma would get about $1.25 in 'commission' for each $21.00 T-shirt
sold, the other $19.95, plus extra profit from a "handling fee" would go to
Cafe Press.)

If we do that sort of thing ourselves, the treasury gets real money. As an
example, we've produced shirts for sale at Roman Days in MD, and Roman Market
Day in Maine, USA. The cost for a t-shirt made at a silkscreen place was
about $6.00, the sale price was $12.95. The Nova Roma treasury made $6.95 per
shirt!

If we were to make products available online through Cafe Press we'd be
giving away far too much profit, and would be glutting the market so that
more lucrative products would be in less demand. It really doesn't seem in
our best interest to sell out to these folks just for the instant
convenience.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

In a message dated 10/3/02 6:12:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cotta@spamcop.net writes:

> Salvete Omnes,
> I just saw a story on Call For Help on Tech TV about a
> site that help and host a Online Store. It is called Cafe
> Press. Here is it's address:
>
> http://www.cafepress.com
>
> Here is a quote from their about page:
>
> > By using our service, companies, as well as individuals and groups,
> > can sell a wide variety of merchandise profitably without the typical
> > hassles and overhead of doing business online. CafePress.com manages
> > every aspect of doing business online, including online storefront
> > development and management, product manufacturing and sourcing,
> > fulfillment, and customer service. By using our services,
> > organizations are able to generate new streams of bottom-line revenue
> > and build community through creative merchandising with no upfront
> > cost.
>
> It look's like good way to set-up a small online store to promote NR
> with T-Shirt's, Mugs, Mousepads, Bags and such.
>
>
>
> Sextus Cornelius Cotta
>
>
> --
> Propraetor
> America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
> Nova Roma
>
> iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: [Egressus] Re: Online Store Set-up Site
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:24:03 -0500

Salvete,
Thanks for the info. Tech TV had it as a Site of the Day
and were recommending it. But, if we have looked in to it
before and were not impressed I guess we won't think about
it then. I just thought it might work.

Vale,
Sextus Cornelius Cotta


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: [Egressus] Re: Online Store Set-up Site
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:49:06 EDT

Salve,

Sorry, but I do know the feeling, believe me! Flavius Vedius Germanicus found
Cafe Press the same year NR was founded... we spent an evening on the phone
to each other all excited over the easy profits to be made! Took a couple
days of research to figure out they were charging way too much and giving
almost nothing in commission. With their 'handling charge', I expect they're
making about $15.50 pure profit per T-shirt AFTER they've paid their costs
and given an organization it's pittance. Really unimpressive numbers. :(

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

In a message dated 10/3/02 9:25:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cotta@spamcop.net writes:

> Salvete,
> Thanks for the info. Tech TV had it as a Site of the Day
> and were recommending it. But, if we have looked in to it
> before and were not impressed I guess we won't think about
> it then. I just thought it might work.
>
> Vale,
> Sextus Cornelius Cotta
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Impressed?
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Fri, 04 Oct 2002 02:35:07 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "R. Jason Boss" <bigbrother@j...> wrote:

SNIP

My interest in American politics for a long time soured because of
> personal attacks (rarely as subtle as even the rather obvious to me
ones
> here) and mudslinging, I certainly don't want to see the same thing
here.
>
> Valete.
> ][asonus
> Marcus Velius Iasonus
> bigbrother@j...

Salve Marce Veli!

I fear you will not enjoy the Saturnalia this year if you indeed do
follow the Mainlist discussions before our elections in December!
They certainly include some mudslinging, misspellings and big, big
misunderstandings (if history is any guide on this ;-) ).

One thing I would like to point out to you, however, in order to
lessen your frustration, is that this is the FORUM of Nova Roma, a
place where we all meet, where political and academic discussions
(and infights, as you can see), negotiations, news, et cetera, et
cetera happen. It is a place where all citizens may speak freely
without fear of state interference and where everyone is equally free
to ignore threads he/she considers uninteresting or childish (this
is, I guess, the only improvement we made on the original Forum in
Rome itself where you might have reasonably expected your head to be
put on top of a spike after a hot row ;-) ).

It is NOT a special interest e-mail group e.g. about Roman cooking,
where you may reasonably expect not to be bothered by such unpleasant
things as political debates or backhanded compliments between, let us
say, not exactly friends.

I hope you will not take this post as another reason to leave Nova
Roma but more as a sign of how alive and worth participating this
community actually is. I once thought it was unbearable, but have
changed my mind since.

However, I will NOT step back from handing back compliments to people
insulting me publicly with lies, be they office holders, magistrates
or whatever. If you say I play dirty tricks I am at least entitled to
point out that it is actually you, not me, who plays dirty. (Just
think how easily e.g. you could misunderstand this last sentence).

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Impressed?
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:58:19 EDT

Marcus Velius Iasonus writes:

Well, after a week or two on this list it seems I've learned something
new after all - if the Romans were masters of sarcasm and increasingly
veiled insults and backhanded compliments, truly they are being emulated
here.

Cassius respondit:
Not to defend the list, which *can* be unpleasant at times, but the ancient
Romans *were* often known to be 'masters of sarcasm, veiled insults and
backhanded compliments'. I believe it was called 'rhetoric', and was one of
the cornerstones of ancient oratory. ;)

It is unfortunate that we Nova Romans don't always agree on every issue. It
is also unfortunate that when people are struggling over an issue they often
try to speak in a way which will gain advantage. That's human nature, even if
it IS always best to remember that courtesy is usually the most effective
weapon!

Some Citizens have always been 'turned off' by some of the discussion on the
NR main list. I expect that will never change. Why? Because arguments and
petty stuff happens on ALL large lists. The problems you see here are just
what happens when you get a few hundred people of differing opinions
together, trying to communicate through a medium that really can't accurately
show emotions, voice inflection, etc.

Our problems here are indeed very common ones. Please do check out:
http://list-etiquette.com/ which is a list resource that attempts to deal
with issues of this type. I'm subscribed to their mailing list, and the
problems that members bring up are exactly the sort of problems that occur
here. People are people no matter what the topic.

The NR main list is actually MUCH better now than it used to be. There was a
time when the list was unmoderated, and 'anything and everything' went. The
insults and bad behavior you reference here used to be the NR list on a GOOD
day! Now, such posts are very much in the minority, and the squabbles pass in
only a day or so. Our moderator does an excellent job of keeping things
rational, and our community as a whole really has learned a lot about getting
along.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Inappropriate discussion.
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:58:40 -0400

On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 02:00:25PM -0000, pompeia_cornelia wrote:

Salvete, Pompeia Cornelia et omnes:

> ---Salve Deci Iuni:
>
> Indeed, I must give you a 'me too' on this one. I am a nurse, circa
> 14 years, and uttering statements publically, and even privately for
> the wrong reasons,with respect to other's medical histories is a
> violaton of my oath as a nurse, and is conduct for which I could
> receive legal retributions and/or a preprimand from the Colleges
> which hold my nursing licensure.
>
> In Nova-Roma@y..., Decimus Iunius Silanus <danedwardsuk@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete,
> >
> > As one who has worked within a medical profession for
> > nearly ten years, I must state that I most strongly
> > object to the very public discussion of an individuals
> > medical history, if without the individuals concerned
> > expressed consent. It is inappropriate and
> > unnecessary.

<dryly> Lest this become an overblown drama - and in my opinion, with
all this bandying about of oaths taken and great offense, etc., it is on
the immediate verge - Senator Audens was simply restating something that
had been previously made public. He is neither a medical professional
violating an oath - which is something that I would find as abhorrent as
many others - nor is he violating a private confidence.

On the other hand, I *do* get greatly offended by calumny and gratuitous
casting of aspersions. Shall we trade in offendedness here? Or shall we
stick with the existing coin of the realm - e.g., courtesy by default?

Everyone *knows* that Al Gore claimed to invent the Internet (he
didn't), and Dan White's lawyer claimed that eating Twinkies had caused
him to commit murder (he didn't). I would prefer not to see Senator
Audens added to that list of "everybody knows."

Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Non omne quod licet honestum est.
Not everything that is permitted is honest.
-- Corpus Iuris Civilis: Digesta


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Impressed? Not in the Least !!!
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:01:20 -0400

On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 06:15:40PM -0400, Legion XXIV wrote:

Salvete, Gallio Velius Marsallas et omnes:

> I turned-off the NovaRoma Main List some time ago for this reason, as
> it was filling my mailbox with petty, on-going, and at times,
> non-relevant and non-productive personal diatribes and arguments. I
> returned at some urging and because Legion XXIV is a sponsored unit of
> NR and should be staying apprised of what NR is doing and planning.
>
> But I find that the same problems still persist. I have been told by
> some prospective NovaRoma applicants that they have not joined NR
> because of their displeasure at what they have seen on the Main List.
>
> We need to correct this. The "List" is a "Window" on NovaRoma!
> Prospective Members look through that window to "view" NovaRoma. We
> are not presenting a good view through "That Window"!!

<irony>Better yet, perhaps we should have a "Main List" that is all
sweetness and light, 100% politically correct, and guaranteed to please
even the pickiest prospective citizen. (I suppose I could write a
program that will generate something like that...) The _real_ list,
where we living, breathing, *opinionated* and *real* human beings
discuss what seem to us to be important issues, should be a deep secret,
available only to those who have sworn on raw earth, fresh blood, and
the three-fold cord.</irony>

Maybe not.

Presenting a false face to the outside world is _not_ consistent with
any code of virtues that I know of; certainly not with my personal one.
In my opinion, anyone who can't handle real discussion, the kind that is
prompted by dealing with important issues, would have a far better time
in news://alt.cuddle than in NovaRoma.

> The veto issue is Stale!

Here, we agree.

> Give It a Bone! and move on and or Take It
> Off the List!!!

But NOT here. The issue will peter out when it it resolved in the minds
of the people concerned with it. "This is unpleasant to me" does not
equate to "this is wrong for everyone"; looking for a Big Gun in the
form of official interference when you dislike something is, in my
opinion, highly inappropriate behavior. Please remember: you can
_always_ deal with things that you find offensive by hitting your
computer's "delete" key. You do _not_ have the right to touch anyone
else's.

> Because - Frankly Sir / My Dear - Most of Us, Most
> of the Time - Don't Give a Damn about your petty piques and quarrels.

<rolling eyes> And _this,_ I presume, is representative of the list
behavior you'd like to see?

> It is about time we cleaned-up and improved that "View" of NovaRoma
> visible through the "List Window".

Yahoo has promised to have that "Mind Control" feature enabled Real Soon
Now. *THEN* everyone on this list will behave right, you betcha!

(Oh-oh... who gets to define what "right" means?)

Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homo homini lupus.
Man is a wolf to man.
-- Plautus, "Asinaria"


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Chat room right now busy!
From:	caiustarquitius@gmx.de
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 03:39:24 +0200 (MEST)

That's it. Join us....

--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. G�nstige DSL- & Modem/ISDN-Tarife!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:06:43 -0700

Ave Quintus Lanius,

I researched and located peoples were settled in Israel by the Assyrians. According to II Kings 17:24 it states: "Then the king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Ava, Hamath and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the Children of Israel." It was the intermingling of these immigrants and the remaining Jews who were not deported that fathered the Samaritans.

I hope that this information also assists you. If you would like to continue this discussion further please feel free to subscribe yourself to the NR_Jewish_Sod@yahoogroups.com or email me privately and I can add you to that list.

Very Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language

Salve Senator Corneli,

That answers all my questions. Again thanks a lot. That ties
everything together now. I'll hit the books and try to learn more
about these times also.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave Quintus,
>
> The Samaritans would have, according to the books of Ezra and
Nemeiah, a tendency to mix the worship of G-d with the beliefs of
their native beliefs. I believe that this contributed (but was not
the only factor) to the conflict between Samaritan and Jew once the
Jews returned after the takeover of Babylon by Persia.
>
> I would need to research a bit but according to those books they
state the nationalities of the new immigrants to the region.
>
> I hope this information answers your inquiry.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:10 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
>
>
> Salve Senator Corneli,
>
> So then the Samaritans or partial Isrealites as you say would not
> have worshiped Yaweh or would there relgion have been a mixture
of
> Judeaism and pagan beliefs something analagous the indigenous
people
> of South America that mixed old paganism with Catholicism today?
>
> Yours respectfully,
>
> Quintus
>
>
> > Avete Q. Lanius,
> >
> > Just a slight correction, the Samaritans were not Jews. They
were
> Israelites who mingled and intermarried with the populace that
was
> transported by the Assyrians.
> >
> > The Israelites split with the Jews at the Death of Solomon.
The
> Northern Kingdom (Israel) was similar but a separate political
entity
> from the State of Judah.
> >
> > Most Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> > To: Nova-Roma@y...
> > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:28 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
> >
> >Snip to condense
>
>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Chat room right now busy!
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:08:19 -0700

Yep it sure was. It was a pleasure to chat with everyone in attendance today. I hope to be in again tomorrow.

Til we meet again,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: caiustarquitius@gmx.de
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 6:39 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Chat room right now busy!

That's it. Join us....

--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. G�nstige DSL- & Modem/ISDN-Tarife!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New Exciting Website
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:38:17 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I am pleased to be able to introduce to you a new website and a new
effort on the part of Sodalitas Egressus to reach out to the rest of the
world to announce Nova Roma to those who may not know of us as yet. It
is a effort that Dominus Praefectus Serapio and Praefectus Scipio of the
"Egressus" have been working hard on for some time, and I am most
appreciative of thier efforts in this aspect. These gentlemen, both, go
far beyond the "suggestion" aspect of doing something concrete for Nova
Roma, and have created a website which will be both useful as well as
entertaining to those people outside of Nova Roma.

Not only is there a website which is very creative, but there are in my
archives a number of treatises provided by Dominus Praefctus Serapio,
which I shall, when the reenactment season is over, or when I can find a
Scriba willing to do the work, be pleased to review, correct for English
pronunciation and issue both for the edification of Nova Romans
everywhere, and have placed on this new website as a further appeal to
those who do not yet know of our Republic.

It is my extreme pleasure as the Praefectus Fabrum of the Sodalitas
Egressus to recognize the labors of these two very hardworking gentlemen
and introduce to you the new website:

"Africa Septentrionalis"

http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

This effort is the beginning of a new area in outreach for the Sodalitas
Egressus , and I am most pleased to call your attention to the work and
efforts of both of these excellent citizens and appointed officers
within Egressus. They truly boh represent the purpose for which
Egressus was first established, and thier efforts go far to establish
Egressus as a strong advocate for Nova Noma Republic.

Dominus Praefectus Serapio and Praefectus Scipio I give you the
traditional U.S. Navy / Sodalitas Egressus -----"Well Done!!!!!!!"

Respectfully, and With Great Appreciation For Your Excellent Efforts;

Marcus Minucius Audens;

Praefectus Fabrum -- Sodalitas Egressus -- Nova Roma

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] E-mail adress
From:	"Sextus Apollonius Scipio" <scipio_apollonius@fr-novaroma.com>
Date:	Fri, 04 Oct 2002 07:59:36 -0700

Salvete Omnes,

the nice IT guys at my office cancelled all internet connection to any
Webmail. I cannot read my E-mail from the Yahoo platform anymore.
Please note that my E-mail adress will now be:

scipio_apollonius@fr-novaroma.com

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta - Roman News and Archeology
From:	"Sextus Apollonius Scipio" <scipio_apollonius@fr-novaroma.com>
Date:	Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:09:36 -0700

Salvete Omnes,

the latest news at: (one of them has adult contents)

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The Main List
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:44:08 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

Your comments regarding the Main List and what is appropriate here
differes with each of you, and with what you "want" and what is
"necessary" for Nova Roma.

Some time ago, I asked the List Moderator to ask the members of the Main
List to vote on moving political discussions to a second list, and that
consideration was soundly defeated as I have indicated by the,
apparently, "Verbal Minority" over the "Silent Majority," comment of a
previous message. Where were your words of support then for a Main List
to be free of political activity??

We are about to enter the "Silly Season" again for the Nova Roma
elections loom ever larger upon the horizon each day. Nova Roma will
begin two months of political discussion, and pointing out shortcomings
and extolling virtues of the Candidates around the 1st of November or
so, and rankly, considering the historical aspect of our Republic, and
the procedures that we involve ourselves in for the selection of those
officers of the Republic, I do not see how else such an election
campaign can be conducted.

However, I am willing to listen to new ideas for this puzzle. For those
of you who think that there is a better way to conduct elections and or
political discussions, please give some specific thought to the
following aspects of such a change:----

--Practicality --(our treasury is small and it follows that free
elections are a far better way to go than to have a dictator, by
whatever other name!!);

--History --(Roman Republic);

--Necessity --(Nova Roma Citizens must vote for who they believe to be
the best Officers for the cming year);

--Accessability --(To all Citizens and "would-be" Citizens who wish to
take part).

When you have considered these items carefully and in the vein of not
only your own narrow view , but with a broader view of other's needs and
desires, I should very much like to have your ideas and suggestions on
how we can better this list.

Commander Gallio:----

It was I who asked you to again "tune in" to the Main List, as I thought
perhaps the Commander of a sponsored legion of Nova Roma, might perhaps
be interested in what the Republic was doing, particularly as we enter
another election campaign. It may well be that you are not interested
in such, and if not I apologize for bringing the subject to your
attenion. However, your views are aired here on this list, along with
the others, and are given the attention of all such messages, such is
the value of the list as it stands. If you do not wish to participate
here, such is of course your right. When you do participate, you are
accorded the freedom of your views. As my mlitary commander, I
respectfully would ask you to consider a review the above aspects of a
better way to do things, and give me your ideas. I am sure that the
military aspects of your considerations will provide some very unique
views into the problem.

To those who have complained about this list and it's contents, I would
again, as a Senator and representative of the people ask the List
Moderators (Praetors) to provide a suitable questionaire about what
steps should be taken to improve this list. The previous question asked
was a simple one:

"Should the political discussions be moved to a second list, so
designated?"

The response from the Citizens of Nova Roma to my question was a
resounding NO!!!!!!

So I leave it to the List Moderator to determine perhaps a better
question or set of questions to determine the feelings of those on this
list.

In regard to the verbalization on this list, I choose not to use what I
consider to be foul language on this list and related lists. Others
tend to do so, on occasion, but I do not. Such is excused under the
nome "colorful Roman rhetoric. I do not agree. While I am not a prude
and am no stranger to such language after 40 years in the U.S. Navy and
Shipbuilding trades, I do not believe there is a place for such here on
this internet. Such a consideration requires a careful use of the
English language to get across my ideas. Since I am not an expert in
this area, often I sound like I am being insulting, but then so do many
of you, so sound, so this pretty much limits my criticisms to definate
actions and antics which I consider appropriate, and of interest to the
citizen.

Our U.S. President and Vice-President have for some time been closely
monitored regarding thier medical problems and there is probably not a
school-age child in America that does not know that our V.P. has a heart
condition. Just as in American Politics, Nova Roman citizens have the
right to know about the medical concerns of thier Senior Magistrates,
particularly if that information has been previously imparted by said
magistrates. I would agree that a person's medical history is private
until exposed to public view when it then enters the public domain, and
is not forbidden of usage by law. That my comments disturb you, is
certainly your right to comment. That you disagree with me is your
privaledge. Just as my right to disagree with you is my privaledge

I again call your attention to the above challenge of finding a better
way, and providing an answer to that question or question set regarding
the Main List. Remember that it is the vote of the individual citizen
that makes that person stronger than any Magistrate. If you, as an
individual, turn aside from that responsibility and opportunity to
register your desire, then you have little to complain about when the
votes are counted. Remember what happened last time when this question
was asked, and I hope you will remember who asked the question then, and
who has repeated it now.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] The Main List
From:	Jenny Harris <J.Harris@awgais.com>
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:59:27 -0600

Salvete,

Senator Audens, your challenge it seems or to me at least can bear fruition.
If a think-tank is formed on this situation, consider me a definite
volunteer.

Bene Valete,
R. Cornelia Aeternia

-----Original Message-----
From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net
[mailto:jmath669642reng@webtv.net]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:44 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Main List

Citizens of Nova Roma;

Your comments regarding the Main List and what is
appropriate here
differes with each of you, and with what you "want" and what
is
"necessary" for Nova Roma.

Some time ago, I asked the List Moderator to ask the members
of the Main
List to vote on moving political discussions to a second
list, and that
consideration was soundly defeated as I have indicated by
the,
apparently, "Verbal Minority" over the "Silent Majority,"
comment of a
previous message. Where were your words of support then for
a Main List
to be free of political activity??

We are about to enter the "Silly Season" again for the Nova
Roma
elections loom ever larger upon the horizon each day. Nova
Roma will
begin two months of political discussion, and pointing out
shortcomings
and extolling virtues of the Candidates around the 1st of
November or
so, and rankly, considering the historical aspect of our
Republic, and
the procedures that we involve ourselves in for the
selection of those
officers of the Republic, I do not see how else such an
election
campaign can be conducted.

However, I am willing to listen to new ideas for this
puzzle. For those
of you who think that there is a better way to conduct
elections and or
political discussions, please give some specific thought to
the
following aspects of such a change:----

--Practicality --(our treasury is small and it follows that
free
elections are a far better way to go than to have a
dictator, by
whatever other name!!);

--History --(Roman Republic);

--Necessity --(Nova Roma Citizens must vote for who they
believe to be
the best Officers for the cming year);

--Accessability --(To all Citizens and "would-be" Citizens
who wish to
take part).

When you have considered these items carefully and in the
vein of not
only your own narrow view , but with a broader view of
other's needs and
desires, I should very much like to have your ideas and
suggestions on
how we can better this list.

Commander Gallio:----

It was I who asked you to again "tune in" to the Main List,
as I thought
perhaps the Commander of a sponsored legion of Nova Roma,
might perhaps
be interested in what the Republic was doing, particularly
as we enter
another election campaign. It may well be that you are not
interested
in such, and if not I apologize for bringing the subject to
your
attenion. However, your views are aired here on this list,
along with
the others, and are given the attention of all such
messages, such is
the value of the list as it stands. If you do not wish to
participate
here, such is of course your right. When you do
participate, you are
accorded the freedom of your views. As my mlitary
commander, I
respectfully would ask you to consider a review the above
aspects of a
better way to do things, and give me your ideas. I am sure
that the
military aspects of your considerations will provide some
very unique
views into the problem.

To those who have complained about this list and it's
contents, I would
again, as a Senator and representative of the people ask the
List
Moderators (Praetors) to provide a suitable questionaire
about what
steps should be taken to improve this list. The previous
question asked
was a simple one:

"Should the political discussions be moved to a second list,
so
designated?"

The response from the Citizens of Nova Roma to my question
was a
resounding NO!!!!!!

So I leave it to the List Moderator to determine perhaps a
better
question or set of questions to determine the feelings of
those on this
list.

In regard to the verbalization on this list, I choose not to
use what I
consider to be foul language on this list and related lists.
Others
tend to do so, on occasion, but I do not. Such is excused
under the
nome "colorful Roman rhetoric. I do not agree. While I am
not a prude
and am no stranger to such language after 40 years in the
U.S. Navy and
Shipbuilding trades, I do not believe there is a place for
such here on
this internet. Such a consideration requires a careful use
of the
English language to get across my ideas. Since I am not an
expert in
this area, often I sound like I am being insulting, but then
so do many
of you, so sound, so this pretty much limits my criticisms
to definate
actions and antics which I consider appropriate, and of
interest to the
citizen.

Our U.S. President and Vice-President have for some time
been closely
monitored regarding thier medical problems and there is
probably not a
school-age child in America that does not know that our V.P.
has a heart
condition. Just as in American Politics, Nova Roman
citizens have the
right to know about the medical concerns of thier Senior
Magistrates,
particularly if that information has been previously
imparted by said
magistrates. I would agree that a person's medical history
is private
until exposed to public view when it then enters the public
domain, and
is not forbidden of usage by law. That my comments disturb
you, is
certainly your right to comment. That you disagree with me
is your
privaledge. Just as my right to disagree with you is my
privaledge

I again call your attention to the above challenge of
finding a better
way, and providing an answer to that question or question
set regarding
the Main List. Remember that it is the vote of the
individual citizen
that makes that person stronger than any Magistrate. If
you, as an
individual, turn aside from that responsibility and
opportunity to
register your desire, then you have little to complain about
when the
votes are counted. Remember what happened last time when
this question
was asked, and I hope you will remember who asked the
question then, and
who has repeated it now.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Copyrights
From:	MVariusPM@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:11:40 EDT

Salve,

There are a wide variety of sub-topics regarding copyright laws. Part of
the law deals with the medium in question (i.e., written, electronic,
software, hardware, processes - glass, art, furniture, - visual, etc.). In
all areas there is a segment of information which is considered "public
domain." Usually this applies to material for which the copyright has expired
or for material that was never copyrighted. Sometimes, if the original author
- in the case of written material or music - is deceased the copyright
expires. In other cases the copyright becomes the property of the
beneficiaries of the estate.

There is also the subject of not using information for profit therefore not
having to get permission for use. Footnotes or bibliographies are recommended
when using quotes for written documents to be published or distributed for
research or scholarship. However, quotes and a "by line" in the body of the
text are perfectly acceptable for material which is still under copyright.

Another way to avoid problems is to alter the material and/or object in
such a way that it becomes uniquely "yours." This can be done with clothing
patterns and other manufactured goods that may be the "invention" of someone
else (patents are another area that is similar to copyright law). I doubt
that there would be any problems reconstructing... say, an amphora and
getting into trouble for duplicating the work of a historic potter from circa
60 B.C.E. Same goes for seige machinery. Things like that may be discussed in
books and papers which are copyrighted, but the objects themselves could not
be due to their age and an inability to claim rights of invention.

Duplicating something from one of Leonardo da Vinci's drawings would be
slightly different, since the inventor could be identified. However, once
again, the age of the object and the documentation would preclude conflicts
and eliminate the risk of violating da Vinci's decendants (which there don't
happen to be direct decendants) rights.

Period recipes given in modern books themselves cannot be copyrighted. The
entire work of the book (i.e. research, writing, commentary, opinions, etc.)
is copyrighted to the author. However, the recipes themselves would be
considered public domain and therefore available for duplication by anyone
who wanted to use them. In fact, if someone wanted to use the recipes, I
would suggest going back to the original source. For the simple reason the
author may have missed something. The original source material would probably
not be copyrighted due to age.

Valate,
Marcus Varius Pullus
(who has returned from being out of town)

In a message dated 9/30/02 2:24:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com writes:

> Actually this depends on how much material is "fair use." This means as
> long
> as the authors and publications are credited, and we are not selling
> information, (dues do not count towards this) we are all right.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Reducing political compaigning: a suggestion
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:16:52 +0100 (BST)

In response to Senator Audens' invitation for suggestions to reduce the volume of political correspondence during election season:
I have known groups and societies governed by elected officers to enact rules limiting the campaigning of candidates to a set number of manifestos of limited size per candidate, to be published in certain specified fora, and in addition one or more public hustings (a meeting at which all the candidates are present and answer questions from the public under the supervision of a chairman), sometimes with limitations also imposed on content of campaigning statements, for instance forbidding the mention of other candidates. It is also sometimes forbidden for others to canvass on behalf of candidates.
Such a policy would be inexpensive and practical, but has to my mind two main drawbacks:
First, it is quite contrary to Roman practice and tradition, according to which all manner of campaigning and manipulation of the electorate short of bribery and violence were allowed and expected. In this respect the current level of political discussion on the main list is not only perfectly in keeping but in fact comparatively mild.
Second, it is naturally desirable for the public to have the freedom to discuss, debate and criticize the campaigning statements of candidates' own opportunities to do so are restricted. This measure would therefore offer no absolute guarantee that political debate would be reduced, or that it would be less heated, though to my mind it probably would have some effect in this direction. Also, if others are free to criticize candidates and the candidates are prohibited from responding in public (though private discussion would naturally be unfettered), this could place tremendous strain on candidates who felt themselves to be receiving unfair criticism or personal defamation, resulting in their breaking the restrictions or nursing grudges they are unable to air.
So there's a possible solution, and two arguments against it. Personally I don't feel it necessary, as I'm quite content that the current level of debate is traditional, acceptable, ignorable and by and large reasonably dignified, but I thought I'd offer it nonetheless.
Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New Exciting Website
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:23:22 -0000

AVETE OMNES

While I can not do anything but thank Senator Marcus Minucius
Audens for his very kind words, I also would like to thank my Scriba
Quintus Lanius Paulinus who collaborated with me (and still do it!)
with a huge amount of very useful information.

As Audens already did, I also thank Praefectus Sextus Apollonius
Scipio for his effort with the french version of the Africa
Septentrionalis website, and with him I also thank Marcus Darius
Firmitus who is just now starting his collaboration in this project.

We hope you will enjoy the Africa Septentrionalis website, and also
hope it will draw new citizens from this essential area of the Roman
world!

OPTIME VALETE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressus
---------------------------
AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Praetor's Comment/Warning
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:10:22 -0000

Salvete Senator M. Minucius Audens et Populesque:

Issued without prejudice......(Well, *some* people will believe me)

Topic: Medical Histories of Citizens and Magistrates is Now a
Private Discussion

I have read the posts regarding the 'opinions' expressed by Senator
M. Minucius Audens with respect to the consul L. Cornelius Sulla.

The fact that one's medical history, if made public before by the
person who owns the history, may be freely spoken of here, in the
eyes of macronational law, is not in dispute by me.

I have no "legal" problem with that, if it is within the context of
discussion of magisterial policy. To be appropriately done, a
complaint/petition should be filed with the Praetors who could take
the situation from there, rather than openly complaining in front of
people who do not know the entire situation, nor all the facts.

However, where I think the macronational legalities are challenged,
not to mention the list guidelines, is that the complete truth was
not conveyed with respect to the past statements of the Consuls'
history, medical or otherwise, for which I hold no opinion, one way
or the other. A half-truth, or an incompletely stated truth, is not
the lawful truth, and should not be conveyed as such. So, although I
did not issue the statements, I question how 'legal' the truth
presented in a half-truth fashion, truly is.

When one is on trial, the number of past offences, or subjective
feelings are not usually a factors in the determination of innocence
or guilt during the trial, unless it has a bearing on the likelihood
of opportunity, motive etc. in the given issue for which a person is
tried. Such factors, in the absence of the afforementioned, are
usually, atleast in Canadian Law, are entertained by a judge in a
presentence report. In this instance, one has not had a trial, and
therefore should not be declared guilty.

What makes me a bit edgy, as a member of the Board of Directors of
the corporation of Nova Roma, is that, unchecked assertions of a
sensitive nature such as these, could lead to potential litigation,
not only for the poster, but for us as a corporation.

I remember moderating a person a few months back for a post which
projected the Consuls of Nova Roma, both of them, as a couple of
rangling incompetant fools, based on 'historical half-truths'.

Senator, with due respect, you have attempted to do the same, in
ridiculing one of the consuls over the misreporting of medical
information. I find this no more appropriate.

Since we have moved on to the subject of list moderation, while still
inserting that we can state whatever we like, however we like, this
topic has veered well past being 'on topic' and of any practical use
to the mainlist.

Please do not use other topics as a window dressing, from which you
can continue to justify and disregard the list guidelines, and
incomplete representation of information, and rather inappropriate
protocols in the challenging of one's competency.

You have justified your disregard for the guidelines edictum by the
Praetors. You have ignored the gentle warning of the Senior Consul,
and the general counsel on this of other prominent citizens. I
understand my colleague was going to write you.

In fact, as I have stated, I worry about legalities, as well as
unvirtuous communication. So I am officially throwing a 'bone' to any
further discussion about medical histories of anyone.

This is an official warning.

If you want to challenge the competance of a magistrate, or another
citizen for whatever reason, please use the Senate or Praetor's
Court. Request an investigation, which is what would be done in
Polybius' time, do not shout tidbits in the streets.

Let us speak no more of it Sir, in this forum.

So allow me to state to you and to all others who continue to indulge
in this sort of communication with respect to the topic, take it in
private or I shall have you moderated for a period of not less than
30 days.

Enough.

P. Cornelia
Praetor


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Copyrights
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:32:54 -0000

Salve Marce,

Thank you so much for the information. That is useful and helpful. I
like passing on recepies from the many books I have on mediterranean
ans ancient cooking to the people of Nova Roma. I cook the recepies
myself, recommend needed adjustments but I always quote my sources.
As you know most ancient recepies I have are from Apicius. I can
understand his recepies in Latin but he often leaves out things like
how to present the meal or which way to cut the meats etc. The more
modern translations of his works try to adjust for this.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Snip to save space
> Period recipes given in modern books themselves cannot be
copyrighted. The
> entire work of the book (i.e. research, writing, commentary,
opinions, etc.)
> is copyrighted to the author. However, the recipes themselves would
be
> considered public domain and therefore available for duplication by
anyone
> who wanted to use them. In fact, if someone wanted to use the
recipes, I
> would suggest going back to the original source. For the simple
reason the
> author may have missed something. The original source material
would probably
> not be copyrighted due to age.
>
> Valate,
> Marcus Varius Pullus
> (who has returned from being out of town)
>
> In a message dated 9/30/02 2:24:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
> qfabiusmaxmi@a... writes:
>
>
> > Actually this depends on how much material is "fair use." This
means as
> > long
> > as the authors and publications are credited, and we are not
selling
> > information, (dues do not count towards this) we are all right.
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: New Exciting Website
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:55:13 -0700

Avete Manius Constantinus, Q. Lanius et Omnes,

A very nice website, I look forward to seeing it continue to grow and evolve.

Maybe you should have our webmaster add it to the NR website so that it wont have any pop up windows and such?

If you need any assistance with links, research, or anything I can pass on the library of links that I have collected and you can add them if you think they will be of assistance.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Manius Constantinus Serapio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:23 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: New Exciting Website

AVETE OMNES

While I can not do anything but thank Senator Marcus Minucius
Audens for his very kind words, I also would like to thank my Scriba
Quintus Lanius Paulinus who collaborated with me (and still do it!)
with a huge amount of very useful information.

As Audens already did, I also thank Praefectus Sextus Apollonius
Scipio for his effort with the french version of the Africa
Septentrionalis website, and with him I also thank Marcus Darius
Firmitus who is just now starting his collaboration in this project.

We hope you will enjoy the Africa Septentrionalis website, and also
hope it will draw new citizens from this essential area of the Roman
world!

OPTIME VALETE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressus
---------------------------
AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:12:59 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>
>
>I believe that Coptic is a seperate language than Aramaic and that
>Coptic came as a result of the Egyptians coming in contact with the
>Greeks and the subsequent �cultural contamination� where the old
>Egyptian heiroglyphic writing was replaced by the more easy to write
>(though in contrast to the heiroglyphs less artistic in my opinion)
>Greek alphabet. I might be wrong since I'm relying on memory.
>
As I understand it, Coptic is to Ancient Egyptian as English to Anglo-Saxon. That is, a partial derivitive with a lot of contamination. One Egyptian author though has identified well over 100 Egyptian survivals as translated expressions in their Arabic. For those with a Biblical interest, Ahmed Osman explains the misidentification of Moses being found by Pharoah's daughter as one of these. In Egypt, it was and is customary politeness to refer to a man's wife as his House, as in dynasty. (This raises an interesting thought as Per-'Oah itself means Great House). In Hebrew, House is Bet[h], Daughter Bat[h] and until the 7th century CE vowels were not written. It would make no sense to a Hebrew scribe that Pharoah's House went for a dip so he added the mark for Daughter and thus has it remained. The inference is that Moses was a potential Pharoah. (This is in fact Osman's thesis: he believes Moses was AkhnAton and the original Jesus/Joshua TutAnkhAten/Amun).
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Apolgies re: my last message
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:06:09 +0100 (BST)

I see my last message showed up with the paragraph breaks improperly formatted, for which I apologize to any who found it difficult to read as a result.

Also I should perhaps re-introduce myself briefly, having not posted to this list for some time: I'm a third-year student at Oxford University (UK) studying Ancient & Modern History, and my application for citizenship is currently being processed by the Censors.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: New Exciting Website
From:	MLCRASSVS@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:33:43 EDT

MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS MANIO CONSTANTINO SERAPIO S.P.D.

AVE,

Let me congratulate you on a most excellent website id est 'NOVA ROMA ,
AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS' I am delighted to see that the issue of Roman Africa
is being addressed. You and your able colleagues do yourselves much credit
in this noble endeavour.

Africa was indeed an integral and vital part of ROMA ANTIQVA, in particular
AFRICA PROCONSVLARIS, producing Emperor's such as SEPTIMIVS SEVERVS and some
of the finest colour mosiacs anywhere in the Empire. Today, some of the
finest and well preserved Roman archaeological sites anywhere are to be found
in north Africa, places like Dougga, Timgad, El Djem (THYDRVS), BVLLA REGIA,
LEPCIS MAGNA ET CETERA.

As one with a particular interest in LEGIO III AVGVSTA, might I suggest that
you and your colleagus include on your links page, material on the Legion and
indeed other legions stationed in Africa as in the Province of Egypt. Two
good websites that might be considered for inclusion on LEG III AVG are:-

http://members.tripod.com/~HAuburn/LegIII.htm

http://www.livius.org/le-lh/legio/iii_augusta

Again, may I say that you honour the gods, the greater glory of Rome and
yourselves with this project in your capacity as Dominvs Praefectvs
Sodalitatis Egressus.

VALE

M. CALIDIVS GRACCVS
CIVIS NOVAE ROMAE

TVVS IN SODOLICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:43:12 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
>
>done to teach his followers who your neigbour really is and clearly
>shows that racism, intolerance and such is not compatible with
>Christianity(even though some of us seem to overlook this).
>
I wonder? Or does it show that internal divisions matter less than sticking together against the heathen conqueror?

>by the rest of the Judean populace. Now if this is so, I am amazed
>that Aramaic was spoken by Christ and much of the Jewish population
>in that area. Was the Amaraic spoken by your every day working guy

After 600 years? The �lite might have used Hebrew among themselves but I imagine the linguistic situation more like English except that the two languages are far closer than old English and French. For several centuries there was linguistic apartheidt but it has gone by Shakespear's time. Or southern Europe, replacing Celtic with Latin, or here, replacing Irish, or the Channel Islands, French, with English in only two or three generations.
However, the case against the Samaritans appears less than convincing to me: the Jews really became Jews in Babylon (and that famous exile in fact lasted a mere 60 years) and finalised the Bible there determined to isolate themselves as much as possible from their neighbours. On their return they sneered at the stay-at-homes as too unholy to rebuild their precious Temple - so those went off to build their own in Shomron. Who is more likely to have kept the true traditions: those who stayed put or those with an agenda to distance themselves and their culture from all around them? The Bible is a litany of complaint against country practices - 'high places', worship of Yahweh's wife Ashera and their son Ba'al (Lord) and daughter (Tanith?). It is also notweworthy that the only religion not denounced in the Bible is Parsee and the Dead Sea Scrolls contain a great many expressions and images identical to Parsee tradition. Since the one gave birth to Christianity (and later Islam) and the other to C's great rival Mithraism, perhaps the similarities between the two are more than poaching and parallellisms.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:49:53 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
>
>According to one of my classmates, a Samaritan, they confirm to the

Huh? According to websites there are some 500 Samaritans left living in Shomron and that is IT! (or them). You are not in Palestine-Israel are you? The mountain was Gerizim or Gezirim. There are actually quite a number of Samaritans in the gospels if you look for them and Shomron lies between Galilee and Jerusalem. There is also said to be a lot of similarity between the Dead Sea Qumran Scrolls and Samaritan magic. Simon the Magus was a Samaritan and in his day far better known 'world'-wide than Jesus the Nazorene. There is a lot more to the gospels than 'gospel truth' (a true oxymoron!) and I'm in a couple of groups related to looking for it.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:02:11 -0700

Avete Omnes,
----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language

<Snip>

>by the rest of the Judean populace. Now if this is so, I am amazed
>that Aramaic was spoken by Christ and much of the Jewish population
>in that area. Was the Amaraic spoken by your every day working guy

After 600 years? The �lite might have used Hebrew among themselves but I imagine the linguistic situation more like English except that the two languages are far closer than old English and French.

Sulla: I agree, I have been to some websites and read some books regarding Hebrew's closeness with other languages in the region. There seems to be concensus with that conclusion from the information I have come across.

For several centuries there was linguistic apartheidt but it has gone by Shakespear's time. Or southern Europe, replacing Celtic with Latin, or here, replacing Irish, or the Channel Islands, French, with English in only two or three generations.
However, the case against the Samaritans appears less than convincing to me: the Jews really became Jews in Babylon (and that famous exile in fact lasted a mere 60 years)

Sulla: In this I would respectfully disagree. I believe the concept of being a Jew developed during the Divided Kingdom when the 10 Tribes went their own separate way. Residents of Judah and Benjamin (and those people who immigrated to Judah's territory) were called Jew. Those of the northern tribes continued to be called Israelites.

and finalised the Bible there determined to isolate themselves as much as possible from their neighbours.

Sulla: I believe this happened before the exile. During the reign of Josiah Priests found a copy of Deutornomy and read it aloud to the People, this is stated in II Chronicles, iirc.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Aramaic, Samaritan, language
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:06:16 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : me-in-@disguise.co.uk
>>
While on the subject of ancient languages, does anybody have suggestions for how the letter Z was pronounced in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin? I have seen that it classes as a double letter along with Xi and Psi but was never used in Greek where a Ts would be appropriate (Xi is used - question: was Xi pronounced as Ts in these cases?) and this is its later Latin value and remains so in Italian and German. In Icelandic it has become S but replaces a Ts and likewise in French it replaces Ts and has become voiced (Assez=Ad Satis, Voyez=Videtis). The references refer to it as 'Sd', a difficult combination and maybe Ds were more appropriate but then the Romans would have written Ds for it as Ps for Psi. Given that it often occurs in agricultural words having Y elswhere: Zygon=Iugum=Yogah and that Y=>J (dzh) in Italian and French maybe it was closer to English J? In which case, was this its original Semitic sound as well? Certainly where it is used in the English Bible, there is confusion between ancient Z=Tsaddi and the rarer Z=Zain. (So Zionists are actually Tsionists)
>Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.
>

"If I am not for myself, who will be? But if I am only for myself, what am I?" - The Rabbi Hillel

--
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Fwd: Resignation
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:17:21 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

The Censors, Consuls and Praetores received the following yesterday:

From: Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@bconnex.net>
Subject: Resignation
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:47:02 -0400

Salvete,

I Amulius Claudius Petrus (Kenneth VanDewark) hereby resign my offices of
Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis, and
Reatrius Officium Canada Orentalis. I apologise for complications this
resignation will cause. I wish I didn't have to make this decision. Yet,
due to personal reasons I have had to make this choice.

Valete,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus

According to the Constitution,

V.D Should a magistrate's office become vacant during the course of his
term, the Senate may appoint a replacement to serve out the remainder of the
term should there be less than three months remaining therein.

Those seeking the office of Curule Aedile for the remainder of the year
should send a statement of qualifications to the Senate.

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New Exciting Website
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Fri, 04 Oct 2002 22:56:40 -0000

AVE OPTIME MARCE CALIDI GRACCHE

Your very kind words flatter me and my colleagues.

You made very interesting suggestions that I will surely take in
strong consideration.

In addition, given the interest you show in this matter, I would ask
you if you would be willing to collaborate in this project. Your
statements as to the mosaics and the Legio III Augusta are much
interesting, and I am sure this web site could gain some very good
points.

Think about it and let me know! ;-)

BENE VALE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New Exciting Website
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Fri, 04 Oct 2002 22:57:21 -0000


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New Exciting Website
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:24:24 -0000

AVE SVLLA CONSVL

> A very nice website, I look forward to seeing it continue to grow
and evolve.

Your kind words are very appreciated.
I also look forward to see NovaRoman population in North Africa grow
and evolve!

> Maybe you should have our webmaster add it to the NR website so
that it wont have any pop up windows and such?

Unfortunately I am not a real webmaster, so the only way for me to
work on websites is to use geocities, which involves also pop up
windows... I am sorry.
I hope in the future the webmaster of this website will be a North
African citizen. He probably will be able to work on it even when
added to the NR website.

> If you need any assistance with links, research, or anything I can
pass on the library of links that I have collected and you can add
them if you think they will be of assistance.

Thank you very much. We obviously look for and accept any material
concerning Roman Africa!
However, I will be very glad when a *North African* citizen will
provide us with this material.
Unfortunately, I actually have no means to know if/when North African
citizens join Nova Roma.

Respectfully,

BENE VALE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs
Legatvs Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Plebis Cicatricis
--------------------------
AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html
--------------------------
PROVINCIA ITALIA
http://italia.novaroma.org
--------------------------
ADMINISTRATIO AEDILIS PLEBIS CICATRICIS
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/aediliscicatrix.html


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Freedom of Speech
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:31:25 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites,

I See those who have a problem with others exercising
thier freedom of speech are making the usual
complaints about too much politics on the main list.

I would like to remind you of Section II B 4 0f Nova
Roma's constitution.

"The right to participate in all public forums and
discussions, and the right to reasonably expect such
forums to be supported by the State. Such
communications, regardless of their content, may not
be restricted by the State, except where they
represent an imminent and clear danger to the
Republic. Such officially sponsored forums may be
expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests
of maintaining order and civility"

So any plans you might have to limit what others post
here should start with your proposed admendment to the
Constitution stripping the clause regarding freedom of
speech out.

We are a fairly diverse group with different intrests
in Roma. Some of do find the political posts
intresting, while others don't. The same could be said
for any other topic that surfaces here from time to
time. One of my main intrests is the Religio, however
I'm sure that there are some on this list that would
rather see that "Pagan Nonsense" limited to the
Religio list. I have little intrest in the Legios, and
could care less about the Aramaic discussion that is
currently going on, but I'm not making posts sugesting
that the Aramaic thread and discussion of the Legios
be dropped. I Guess the apolitical citizens are the
only ones who are egotistical enough to think that the
list should be structured to meet thier tastes.

The Apolitical citizens may wish to try these ideas
instead of ignoring the Constitution and making yet
another attempt to place limits on speech they don't
like.

Go to this URL and start another list.

http://groups.yahoo.com/start

It'll be your very own group, so you can place
whatever limits you wish on it.

Then there is this E-Mail address

Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Where you can unsubscribe from this list if you don't
want to recive posts from citizens exercising thier
freedom of speech. The price of freedom is tolaration
of other's freedom. Other citizens don't have a duty
to meet your standards. You have the right not to read
posts that don't meet your standards, but do NOT have
the right to prevent others from making them.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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