Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Survey of Citizen Talents PROPOSAL
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 02:22:00 +0000

>From: "Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Survey of Citizen Talents PROPOSAL
>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:41:28 -0000

Have my words been interpreted as racists???

>I am obviously speaking of demographic and statistic matters!!!

Salve Constantine Serapione:

I read the post, and it was very clear to me. I saw absolutely nothing
there implying any kind of racism, and I think it is safe to say that nobody
did either.

Bene vale

Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	"Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 04:27:35 -0000

Salve,

I am posting this to the main list as there are 366 citizens on the
main list (out of 1554 which is another question for later) and less
that 40 on the land project site.

Is it possible for the person/s who maintain the main Nova Roma web
site to have catogories added to the paypal so that when we send in
our taxes in January( or before) we can check a space that tells the
powers that be this is for taxes? If catogories are possible can one
be added for the land project?

Making a leap of faith that this can be done here is my modest
proposal for the land project. Starting with January 1 2756 A.U.C.
Citizens can (when they can) post through paypal( or mail) a donation
of $1000.00 U.S. Dollars. If all 1554 Citzens donate the full
$1000.00 we can collect for the Land project

1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. yes that was

1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. !!!

No I don't have extra money gathering dust but, if we send in the
money over ONE year it amounts to $84 per month or $21.00 per week or
$2.976 per day. If you can't sent the $21.00 one week you can send
more another week as long as we send in $1000.00 by the end of one
year. If the Citizens of Nova Roma can not part with less that $3.
per day to help the land fund we have bigger problems that the level
of discourse on the main list. So here is my modest proposal, what do
you think?

Vale,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortes fortuna iuvat ( Fortune helps the brave)


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Survey of Citizen Talents PROPOSAL
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 04:59:19 -0000

---Salve Gallerius Amice:

In reading all of the posts, there were a 'minority' of posts,
implying that race/nationality etc. was all that was being sought,
with statements to the effect that we are all Romans et al.

Natually the majority are not thinking along these lines, but I
thought for the benefit of those who misunderstood Serapio and his
ideas, I thought I would clear the air, plus add some comments of my
own.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia

In Nova-Roma@y..., "Gaius Galerius Peregrinator"
<gaiusgalerius@h...> wrote:
>
>
>
> >From: "Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@y...>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@y...
> >To: Nova-Roma@y...
> >Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Survey of Citizen Talents PROPOSAL
> >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:41:28 -0000
>
> Have my words been interpreted as racists???
>
> >I am obviously speaking of demographic and statistic matters!!!
>
> Salve Constantine Serapione:
>
> I read the post, and it was very clear to me. I saw absolutely
nothing
> there implying any kind of racism, and I think it is safe to say
that nobody
> did either.
>
> Bene vale
>
> Galerius Peregrinator.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSES
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:53:54 +0200

Salve Amice!

The Ludi Victoria Circenses are beginning soon please please read
this and enroll:

So, this is the last opportunity in 2755 to run in our virtual Circus with
your auriga and to qualify for the final race appinting the BEST CHARIOTEER
2755.
Hurry up, this time we want minimum 32 players and we would like to see mor
chariots coloured of blue and white. Your enemy is the strong Praesina, only
you can stop the "Invincible Factio"!!!

Read the regulations at
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/vlc.htm

---------------
Regulations Ludi Victoria Circenses

Nova Roma organize "Victoria Ludi Circenses", chariot races during the Ludi
Victoria October 16 - 1st November, 2002, in recollection of the roman
customs of amusement and entertainment. In these games only there take part
the citizens registered in Nova Roma who want to do it according to the
following rules exposed below.

1) How to take part?
1.1) Every player have to send our subscription to salixgalaicus@hotmail.com
[Gnaeus Salix Galaicus] with the subject "Ludi Circensis", within the
following informations:

His/her name in Nova Roma
The name of his/her driver
The name of his/her chariot
His/her tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals (see point 2)
His/her tactics for the Finals (see point 2)
The name of his/her "factio" or team (green, red, blue or white)
1.2) The subscriptions must be sent before October 15, 2002 (time of Rome).
1.3) Every player only will send one chariot.

2) Tactics
Six (6) race tactics are possible:

To hurry in the last laps
To pass the curves closely the "spina" of the circus.
To support a constant pace
To lash the rivals
To push the rivals to the wall of the circus
To hurry in the straight lines

2.1) Each player have the possibility to change his/her tactics if he/she
runs in the Final. He/she can send a tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals
and a tactics for the Final race.

3) Dirty actions
A citizen can try the assassination of the driver of a rival factio or the
sabotage of his/her chariot.

3.1) Assassination of the driver of a rival factio
The player must say to what factio he attacks. The chance is 30 %. If the
attempt is uncovered, the killer player is fined but his/her chariot can
take part in the race. If the attempt has success, the player with the
murdered driver can not take part in the race. Of course, the killer isn´t
uncovered.

3.2) Sabotage of a chariot
The player must say to what factio he attacks. The chance is 45 %. If the
attempt is uncovered, the killer player is fined and his/her chariot can´t
take part in the race. If the attemp t has success, the player with the
broken chariot WILL SUFFER AN ACCIDENT in the race. Of course, the saboteur
isn´t uncovered. If a player reaches three fines. He/she will be reminded
publicly in the forum and he/she will not take part in the following Ludi.

3) How it will be the competition?
The competition is for elimination (quarter, semi-finals and final). Every
race will take 4 participants.
In the Quarter there is one player as every factio, the first two players
continue running, the last two are eliminated.
In the Semifinals there are the winners of the Quarter, the first players
run to the Final.
In the Final the 4 best players runs, the first is the Winner.
This is the schedule:

QUARTER, 32 players
Run in Semifinal the firs two aurigae SEMIFINAL, 16 players
Run in Final the firs aurigae FINAL, 4 players
Win the first

4) How the races will be?
4.1. ACCIDENTS.
Before doing the calculations of a race, the editor determine who has an
accident. For it, he roll one dice 0-100 for every chariot. The resultant
number will be its percentage of accident.
- The drivers with tactics 1 will have 0 to 15 percentage of accident
always. 0 to 25 if there are one or more drivers with tactics 4 or 5.
- The drivers with tactics 2 will have 0 to 20 percentage of accident
always. 0 to 35 if there are one or more drivers with tactics 4 or 5.
- The drivers with tactics 3 will have 0 to 10 percentage always.
- The drivers with tactics 4 will have 0 to 15 percentage always. 0 to 25 if
there are other drivers with tactics 4.
- The drivers with tactics 5 will have 0 to 15 always. 0 to 25 if there are
other drivers with tactics 5.
- The drivers with tactics 6 will have 0 to 5 percentage always. 0 to 20 if
there are other drivers with tactics 4 or 5.

4.2) CALCULATION OF THE RACES.
After determining which chariots (if any) have been eliminated from a race
due to an accident, the editor must calculate the order in which the
remaining teams finished the race.
The editor will roll one dice 0-10 for every player. This will be the Value
of Race (VR) of every car.
To know the final position of a chariot in the race the VR of every player
is divided by the sum of all the VR and the result is multiplied by 50. This
way we have its Chance to Win (CW).
For example, if there is a race with 4 chariots with these VR: 6,5,4,2 then
the first chariot, with the VR 6, would have the following Chance to to Win:
6/17 (17 is the sum of 6+5+4+2) x 50 = 17.6 (rounding, 18). The CW of the
first chariot will be 18 points. The second chariot, with VR 5, would have
5/17x50 = 14.7 (rounding, 15), therefore its CW is 15 points.

The tactics modify the CW of the following way:
Tactics 1) +6 points.
Tactics 2) +8 points.
Tactics 3) No points. The tactics 4 and 5 do not affect it.
Tactics 4) +2 points. The tactics 5 do not affect it.
Tactics 5) +2 points. The tactics 4 do not affect it.
Tactics 6) +4 points.

Assign each team a specific range of numbers out of a series of 100 that is
equal to the team's Chance to Win. Assign these team ranges consecutively.
In our sample race, for example, Chariot 1's range (with tactics 2) would be
01 through 25 (18+7). Chariot 2's range (with tactics 4) would be 26 through
40.

The final step for the Editor is to roll a dice 0-100 to determine the order
of finish. The chariot within whose range the first dice 0-100 roll falls is
the team that finishes the race in first place. The chariot within whose
range the second dice 0-100 roll falls is the team that finishes the race in
second place. The chariot within whose range the third D100 roll falls is
the chariot that finishes the race in third place. And so on. Once a
chariot's position has been determined, ignore subsequent rolls that fall
within its range and roll again.
In our sample race, the first die roll result is 25. This makes chariot 2
(Range 26-40) the first place winner.

5) Time schedule
*October 5, 2002: Announcement of the races' instructions and opening of the
inscriptions (a maximum of 32 players)
* October 15: Deadline for the inscriptions
* October 17:
h. 7:00 PM (time of Rome): Announcement by C.Fabius Quintilianus and start
of the first turn of races.
h. 8:30 PM: Announcement of the winners of the first turn and summary of the
races.
* October 19: Start Semifinals
h. 8:30 PM: Announcement of the winners of the semifinals and summary of the
races.
* October 21: Start Final
h. 8:30 PM: Announcement of the winner history of the race.

6) Winners
The Winner of the Final will be the Winner of the 4th Ludi Circensis and
will publish on the Ludi Romani Website
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/vitoriae and in the Main
Mailing List of Nova Roma at October 21 , 2002.
There will other races during the Ludi of the 2755. The best 4 runners of
the year will run in the Final Chariot Race MAXIMI LUDI CIRCENSES.

Informations:
- Cohors Aedilis Website - Section Ludi:
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoriae
- Scriba Aedilis Cursus Equorum Curulis Aedilis Gnaeus Salix Galaicus:
piteas@jazzfiesta.com
- Quaestor Franciscus Apulus Caesar: sacro_barese_impero@libero.it

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Justica, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	"Rachel" <theladysabine@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 11:24:22 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> wrote:
>If the Citizens of Nova Roma can not part with less that $3.
> per day to help the land fund we have bigger problems that the
level
> of discourse on the main list.

It sounds like a lovely idea, but being a college student with three
and a half more years of taking out loans ahead of her, I don't think
I can say goodbye to $3 a day for the Land Project right now.

Those Citizens who don't make even minorly stellar paychecks might
find it a little bit difficult too. I will make if I am lucky $400
this month, and my rent is three times that.

I think we should try to develop and disseminate some type of *brief*
census to see a quick demographic mock-up of Nova Roman citizenry so
we can all see how much money we would have for the Land Project if
all the citizens who were most likely capable of donating donated. I
don't think anyone 20 and under is going to be able to rise to the
occasion.

Mi dispiace :(

Horatia Minucia Caesar


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	"Sextus Apollonius Scipio" <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:04:24 -0000

Salvete,

it is indeed already difficult to raise 13 USD per year per
citizen!!
We have to get the money where it is located that is from
governments, grantors or commercial events.

Vale,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Rachel" <theladysabine@h...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:
> >If the Citizens of Nova Roma can not part with less that
$3.
> > per day to help the land fund we have bigger problems
that the
> level
> > of discourse on the main list.
>
> It sounds like a lovely idea, but being a college student
with three
> and a half more years of taking out loans ahead of her, I
don't think
> I can say goodbye to $3 a day for the Land Project right
now.
>
> Those Citizens who don't make even minorly stellar
paychecks might
> find it a little bit difficult too. I will make if I am lucky $400
> this month, and my rent is three times that.
>
> I think we should try to develop and disseminate some
type of *brief*
> census to see a quick demographic mock-up of Nova Roman
citizenry so
> we can all see how much money we would have for the
Land Project if
> all the citizens who were most likely capable of donating
donated. I
> don't think anyone 20 and under is going to be able to rise
to the
> occasion.
>
> Mi dispiace :(
>
> Horatia Minucia Caesar


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:04:52 -0000

Salvete omnes,

Forgive me if this has already been addressed but something we should
look at is getting a tax deduction number something like the charity
and other non- profit organizations do. In this way people who could,
would be more likely to donate something like the 1000.00 mentioned.
The only problem I see is that Nova Roma is incorporated and based
out of the good old USA. Unfortunately, Revenue Canada (like your
IRS) rules that any donations to charities or non - profit
organizations are only detuctable to those that are based or work
within Canada. This could be the same situation with the Europeans. I
learned that the hard way when I donated 1000.00 to a charity in
India. If I rememember correctly, the Senate talking about having NR
registred in different states and countries. Any comments or thoughts
on this?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I am posting this to the main list as there are 366 citizens on the
> main list (out of 1554 which is another question for later) and
less
> that 40 on the land project site.
>
> Is it possible for the person/s who maintain the main Nova Roma web
> site to have catogories added to the paypal so that when we send in
> our taxes in January( or before) we can check a space that tells
the
> powers that be this is for taxes? If catogories are possible can
one
> be added for the land project?
>
> Making a leap of faith that this can be done here is my modest
> proposal for the land project. Starting with January 1 2756 A.U.C.
> Citizens can (when they can) post through paypal( or mail) a
donation
> of $1000.00 U.S. Dollars. If all 1554 Citzens donate the full
> $1000.00 we can collect for the Land project
>
> 1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. yes that was
>
> 1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. !!!
>
> No I don't have extra money gathering dust but, if we send in the
> money over ONE year it amounts to $84 per month or $21.00 per week
or
> $2.976 per day. If you can't sent the $21.00 one week you can send
> more another week as long as we send in $1000.00 by the end of one
> year. If the Citizens of Nova Roma can not part with less that $3.
> per day to help the land fund we have bigger problems that the
level
> of discourse on the main list. So here is my modest proposal, what
do
> you think?
>
> Vale,
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortes fortuna iuvat ( Fortune helps the brave)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 07:12:03 -0700 (PDT)

I think we need to work on getting it allowed in the US first for tax dedections if it is not yet then work on the other countries since that is where NR is incorporated at
Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> wrote:Salvete omnes,

Forgive me if this has already been addressed but something we should
look at is getting a tax deduction number something like the charity
and other non- profit organizations do. In this way people who could,
would be more likely to donate something like the 1000.00 mentioned.
The only problem I see is that Nova Roma is incorporated and based
out of the good old USA. Unfortunately, Revenue Canada (like your
IRS) rules that any donations to charities or non - profit
organizations are only detuctable to those that are based or work
within Canada. This could be the same situation with the Europeans. I
learned that the hard way when I donated 1000.00 to a charity in
India. If I rememember correctly, the Senate talking about having NR
registred in different states and countries. Any comments or thoughts
on this?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I am posting this to the main list as there are 366 citizens on the
> main list (out of 1554 which is another question for later) and
less
> that 40 on the land project site.
>
> Is it possible for the person/s who maintain the main Nova Roma web
> site to have catogories added to the paypal so that when we send in
> our taxes in January( or before) we can check a space that tells
the
> powers that be this is for taxes? If catogories are possible can
one
> be added for the land project?
>
> Making a leap of faith that this can be done here is my modest
> proposal for the land project. Starting with January 1 2756 A.U.C.
> Citizens can (when they can) post through paypal( or mail) a
donation
> of $1000.00 U.S. Dollars. If all 1554 Citzens donate the full
> $1000.00 we can collect for the Land project
>
> 1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. yes that was
>
> 1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. !!!
>
> No I don't have extra money gathering dust but, if we send in the
> money over ONE year it amounts to $84 per month or $21.00 per week
or
> $2.976 per day. If you can't sent the $21.00 one week you can send
> more another week as long as we send in $1000.00 by the end of one
> year. If the Citizens of Nova Roma can not part with less that $3.
> per day to help the land fund we have bigger problems that the
level
> of discourse on the main list. So here is my modest proposal, what
do
> you think?
>
> Vale,
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortes fortuna iuvat ( Fortune helps the brave)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Impressed? Not in the Least !!!
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 04:09:56 -0700 (PDT)

Hail Nova Roma
To C.Minucius Scaevola
I know it's late to respond to your letter but I just can't stop laughing.This should be the right postings on NR.Thank you for the good laugh!
G.Porticus Brutis
Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com> wrote: On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 06:15:40PM -0400, Legion XXIV wrote:

Salvete, Gallio Velius Marsallas et omnes:

> I turned-off the NovaRoma Main List some time ago for this reason, as
> it was filling my mailbox with petty, on-going, and at times,
> non-relevant and non-productive personal diatribes and arguments. I
> returned at some urging and because Legion XXIV is a sponsored unit of
> NR and should be staying apprised of what NR is doing and planning.
>
> But I find that the same problems still persist. I have been told by
> some prospective NovaRoma applicants that they have not joined NR
> because of their displeasure at what they have seen on the Main List.
>
> We need to correct this. The "List" is a "Window" on NovaRoma!
> Prospective Members look through that window to "view" NovaRoma. We
> are not presenting a good view through "That Window"!!

<irony>Better yet, perhaps we should have a "Main List" that is all
sweetness and light, 100% politically correct, and guaranteed to please
even the pickiest prospective citizen. (I suppose I could write a
program that will generate something like that...) The _real_ list,
where we living, breathing, *opinionated* and *real* human beings
discuss what seem to us to be important issues, should be a deep secret,
available only to those who have sworn on raw earth, fresh blood, and
the three-fold cord.</irony>

Maybe not.

Presenting a false face to the outside world is _not_ consistent with
any code of virtues that I know of; certainly not with my personal one.
In my opinion, anyone who can't handle real discussion, the kind that is
prompted by dealing with important issues, would have a far better time
in news://alt.cuddle than in NovaRoma.

> The veto issue is Stale!

Here, we agree.

> Give It a Bone!

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 03:51:21 -0700 (PDT)

Hail Nova Roma
I do belive this would work,if you can get others to work it out.We all know how much we could be giving.The ?'s that should be asked is why we should not give.I know I'm still very new to NR but it's up to us to make people understand that NR must meet its goal if we are to be looked at as a true state.Not just a state of mind.Let us set the bar high and if some can't reach it than don't look down them for not trying,but rather the one's that don't care.We whom can give $1000.00us should and be the standard for others to see and follow.If one publicly shows he's given then others well do as he's done[or she sorry ].As I've said I'm new and I don't know if there's dues for joining or what money should be given.I hope to give to the NR land but didn't know if there is set in place rules to giving or if your reqierd to pay dues?if you can help me with the rules to NR about dues I'd thank you for it.

G.Porticus Brutis

---------------------------------
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Apolgies re: my last message
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 04:38:43 -0700 (PDT)

Hi jamie and welcome to the group.Hope you will love it here and have fun meeting other like minded people.What is your new name that we should call you?
G.Porticus Brutis
Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I see my last message showed up with the paragraph breaks improperly formatted, for which I apologize to any who found it difficult to read as a result.

Also I should perhaps re-introduce myself briefly, having not posted to this list for some time: I'm a third-year student at Oxford University (UK) studying Ancient & Modern History, and my application for citizenship is currently being processed by the Censors.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Impressed? Not in the least.
From:	"aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:50:56 -0000

Salve, G. Porticus Brutus (or whoever I am quoting
below) If the attribution is wrong, I apologize; it
is difficult for me to tell who is quoting whom,
sometimes, in these list messages.

GPB: Presenting a false face to the outside world is
_not_ consistent with any code of virtues that I know
of; certainly not with my personal one. In my opinion,
anyone who can't handle real discussion, the kind that
is prompted by dealing with important issues, would
have a far better time in news://alt.cuddle than in
NovaRoma.

Renata: While I agree that it is better to present an
honest, though ugly, view into NR's community than a
falsely pretty one, let me describe what I see through
the window:

I see Nova Romans who sometimes engage in very
interesting discussions of Roman religion, culture,
history, and archaeological discoveries. It is only
because of those discussions that I stay.

Through that same window, I ALSO see a Nova Roma that
often acts more like a domestic disturbance than it does
like people who are interested in working toward any
sort of common goal other than mutually assured
vivisection. I frequently ask myself why I stick
around, when I see NR folks acting like that.

I ask you, if you went to visit someone you didn't know
well, only to arrive and discover that they are
screaming at each other and throwing things, do you
stay and wait for them to calm down and serve you
coffee and cake?

Or do you decide that you really don't care to know
those people, after all, and that you would rather spend
your limited spare time with people who know how to
resolve their differences with consideration and
courtesy toward each other?

It is a truism--How people in a group treat each other
is how they will treat YOU.

To me, it is no wonder at all, that some people decline
to join Nova Roma after a peek through our 'window.'

---
Renata Corva


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Survey of Citizen Talents PROPOSAL
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:53:02 +0000

>From: "pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Survey of Citizen Talents PROPOSAL
>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 04:59:19 -0000
>
>---Salve Gallerius Amice:
>
>In reading all of the posts, there were a 'minority' of posts,
>implying that race/nationality etc. was all that was being sought,
>with statements to the effect that we are all Romans et al.
>
>Natually the majority are not thinking along these lines, but I
>thought for the benefit of those who misunderstood Serapio and his
>ideas, I thought I would clear the air, plus add some comments of my
>own.
>
>Bene vale,
>Pompeia Cornelia
>

That was well said and proper.

Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A CHALLANGE ABOUT THE LUDI VICTOIRIA CULTURAL AWARD
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:57:29 +0200

Salvete Ouirites!

Where are Illustris Marcus Minucius Audens, Illustris Tiberius
Apollonius Cicatrix, Illustris Gaius Cassius Nerva, Illustra Vopisca
Iulia Cocceia, Honorable Quintus Classius Clavus, Honorable Manius
Constantinus Serapio, Honorable Tiberius Annaeus Otho, Honorable
Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili, Honorable Caius Annaeus Lucanus
Otho, Honorable Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus and Honorable Marcus
Octavius Solaris? We know that You are wonderful authors and still no
texts from You to the Ludi Victoria Cultural Award?

All others!

It is time to show the citizens above that there are others that can
write! Send us your texts to the glory of Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua!

===============
Below comes everything You need to know:

The exciting Ludi by Caeso Fabius Quintilianus come back and they are the
last of the 2755. So they'll be the more wonderful and rich of the year with
2 Awards, music, theatre, races, religion, etc.

The first event of this long big program of events see the first, the LUDI
VICTORIAE CULTURAL AWARD (LVCA).

http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/cultural_award.htm

**** Regulations ****

1) The literary award, "The Ludi Victoriae Cultural Award" (LVCA) is
supported by Nova Roma and organized by the Cohors Aedilis of Senior Curule
Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus. It is open to all the citizens of Nova
Roma. The task of the contest is to write a text (poetry or novel or text)
about the most imposrtant military and political victories of Roma. The
theme will be:

- ancient roman military victories
- political victories
- roman wars
- roman great heroes

2) The Award is open to single participants or to groups composed of a
maximum of 5 citizens. Each participant or group of participants can
participate with just _one_ work. It isn't allowed to be a member of a group
and participate as a individual at the same time. The contributed work must
be in English, with a maximum of 500 words. These kinds of works are
accepted: novel, poem, drama, tragedy, comedy.

3) Each text must have the following facts about the participant(s): Nova
Roman name, real name, Nova Roman Provinceage, e-mail address.

4) The deadline to send own work is October 18, 2002 (2755 a.u.c.), by
e-mail to sacro_barese_impero@libero.it [Franciscus Apulus Caesar] with the
subject "LVCA".

5) The texts will judged by a Jury composed by the four highest Magistrati
with Imperium (and thereby with the ancient right to lead armies) of our
beloved Res Publica

Each judge in the jury shall value each work following this table of
judgement:
- Contents (0-10 points)
- Roman historical references (0-10 points)
- Language (0-5 points)
- Poetry and dramatization (0-5 points)
- Specific references to roman victories (0-10 points)

5 a) The points from all judges are summarized and this sum will decide who
will win.
5 b) The judgements of the jury are un-impugnable.

6) The winner of the Victoriae Cultural Award will be published at the
Cohors Aedilis Website - Section Ludi and at the Main Mailing List of Nova
Roma and as a virtual Diploma.

7) The texts will be archived by the Ludi organization. The participants
give the copyrights of their text to Nova Roma accepting this regulation.
This Regulation is accepted by taking part of the "the Ludi Victoriae
Cultural Award" (LVCA).

8) The winner shall be announced on the Cohors Aedilis Website - Section
Ludi and at the Nova Roman Main Mailing List at October 22, 2002.
-----------------
Informations:
- Victoriae c/o Cohors Aedilis - Section Ludi:
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoriae/
- Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus: christer.edling@telia.com
- Quaestor Franciscus Apulus Caesar: sacro_barese_impero@libero.it
--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Justica, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A CHALLANGE ABOUT THE LUDI VICTOIRIA CULTURAL AWARD
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:11:39 +0200

Salvete Miles!

Officers of the Roman armies, it is time that You rise to the
challenge - it is time to beat the Carthagians!!!

I hope that You don't want to see quirites doing your job?

Salvete Ouirites!

It is time to show all these so called vir militaris that You are
better than they are in their own field! Give the Carthagians what
they deserve!
===============
Avete, Quirites, during the next Ludi Victoriae you could show your military
skills.
Please, imagine to be an importan ancient Roman captain driving your brave
Army against the terrible Punian Army of Hannibal....
What you should do? How you attack Carthago's Army and how you defense your
lines?
In this new Contest by Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus you could
change the final of the famous lost battle in Canne at 216 B.C.

Keep attenction, this is an experimental Award and we are happy to recive
suggestions and opinion to improve it.
The rules are published too at
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/military_award.htm .
Here you can see and download the map pf the field.

REGULATION

1) The "Ludi Victoriae Military Award" (LMCA) is a military tactics contest
supported by Nova Roma and organized by the Cohors Aedilis of Senior Curule
Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus. It is open to all the citizens of Nova
Roma. The task of the contest is to organize the defense of Rome in the
famous battle of Canne against the Army of Carthago (216 b.C.).
We know how finish this famous battle: the Consuls Terentius Varrone and
Emilius Paulus lost because taken by the "funnel" of Carthago. It was our
greatest defeat ... !
Now you have the possibility to change the history and show your skills as
soldier.

2) This is the situation on the field in the start of the battle. As we can
see, there is in the bottom of the picture the enemy's army, the soldiers of
Carthago and african alleated. On the top there is the Roman Army.
You have 6 miltary units with different Speed and Power:

- 1 line of Velites [Speed 3 - Power 2 = 5]
- 1 Roman Cavalry [S4 - P2 = 6]
- 1 Allied Cavalry [S5 - P3 = 7]
- 1 Roman Legion [S1 - P5 = 6]
- 2 Allied Alae Sociorum [S1 - P3 = 4] x 2 = 8

... againt 6 units of the Carthago's Army:

- 1 line of light infantry [Speed 3 - Power 1 = 4]
- 2 African Phalanx [S1 - P4 = 5] = 10
- 1 Numidian Cavalry [S5 - P3 = 8]
- 1 Celtic-Iberian Cavalry [S3 - P3 = 6]
- 1 Celtic-Iberian Infantry [S1 - P3 = 4]

[map 1]

In the following two pictures there is the tactic used by Hannibal against
the roman Consuls. As you can see the african Army moved the Phalanxs back
the cavalry and after create a funnel with the Infantry. The two Cavalries
had the function to push the enemy's units in this funnel.

[map 2 and 3]

3) What is your target? Each player of this Award must to create a new
tactic for the Roman Army using some of every units [Cavalry (roman and
allied), the legiones and the line of Maniples]. The partecipant have to
projecting useful mouvements for the units thinking about the power ans
speed of each unit. Each player can take these images to complete the
battle's schedule.

4) The Award is open to single participants or to groups composed of a
maximum of 5 citizens. Each participant or group of participants can
participate with just _one_ work. It isn't allowed to be a member of a group
and participate as a individual at the same time. The contributed work must
be in English, with a maximum of 500 words, also within pictures and/or
movies.

5) The text can be sended in this formats: .html, .doc, .txt. The images can
be jpgs, gifs, tifs or bmps. The movies can be developed in Flash,
Shockwave, Director or Mpeg.

6) Each text must have the following facts about the participant(s): Nova
Roman name, real name, Nova Roman Province, e-mail address.

7) The deadline to send own work is October 16, 2002 (2755 a.u.c.), by
e-mail to sacro_barese_impero@libero.it [Franciscus Apulus Caesar] with the
subject "LMCA".

8) The texts will judged by a Jury composed by the four higher Nova Roman
experts of military arts.
Each judge in the jury shall value each work following this table of
judgement:
- Tactic (0-10 points)
- How many units have been used (0-5 points: 5 if using only one unit, 4 if
using 2 units, etc....)
- Efficacy of the units (Power+Speed)
- Military Language (0-5 points)
- Hypothetic result (0-5 points)

8 a) The points from all judges are summarized and this sum will decide who
will win.
8 b) The judgements of the jury are un-impugnable.

9) The tactic winner of the Victoriae Military Award will be published at
the Cohors Aedilis Website - Section Ludi and at the Main Mailing List of
Nova Roma and as a virtual Diploma.

10) The texts and all the materials will be archived by the Ludi
organization. The participants give the copyrights of their text to Nova
Roma accepting this regulation. This Regulation is accepted by taking part
of the "the Ludi Victoriae Military Award" (LMCA).

11) The winner shall be announced on the Cohors Aedilis Website - Section
Ludi and at the Nova Roman Main Mailing List at October 20, 2002.

Informations:
- Victoriae c/o Cohors Aedilis - Section Ludi:
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoriae/
- Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus: christer.edling@telia.com
- Quaestor Franciscus Apulus Caesar: sacro_barese_impero@libero.it
--
Valete

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Justica, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A CHALLANGE ABOUT THE LUDI VICTOIRIA MILITARY AWARD (Sorry now I
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:17:13 +0200


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Impressed? Not in the least.
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:21:04 -0700

Avete Omnes,

We treat each other in Nova Roma pretty much exactly the same as the ancients treated themselves. We have recreated a society that is volitile, fluid and of differing views. This is why scholars have been viewing us for a number of years because we paint a picture of how ancient Rome truly was. Full of politcs, conflict, and pettyiness. But that is only part of the picture on the other side you have the culture, the closeness of the gentes, the genuine attempt to build (and maintain) our community. Both sides are essential to learning about how the ancients were.

When you read Livy, Plutarch or Tacitus you can at one hand see the very best of Rome and its flaws. Nova Roma has and is always trying to achieve that. With human nature the way it is, it just is easier for us to view the negative first because at times it is more prominent.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: aerdensrw
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 7:50 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Impressed? Not in the least.

Salve, G. Porticus Brutus (or whoever I am quoting
below) If the attribution is wrong, I apologize; it
is difficult for me to tell who is quoting whom,
sometimes, in these list messages.

GPB: Presenting a false face to the outside world is
_not_ consistent with any code of virtues that I know
of; certainly not with my personal one. In my opinion,
anyone who can't handle real discussion, the kind that
is prompted by dealing with important issues, would
have a far better time in news://alt.cuddle than in
NovaRoma.

Renata: While I agree that it is better to present an
honest, though ugly, view into NR's community than a
falsely pretty one, let me describe what I see through
the window:

I see Nova Romans who sometimes engage in very
interesting discussions of Roman religion, culture,
history, and archaeological discoveries. It is only
because of those discussions that I stay.

Through that same window, I ALSO see a Nova Roma that
often acts more like a domestic disturbance than it does
like people who are interested in working toward any
sort of common goal other than mutually assured
vivisection. I frequently ask myself why I stick
around, when I see NR folks acting like that.

I ask you, if you went to visit someone you didn't know
well, only to arrive and discover that they are
screaming at each other and throwing things, do you
stay and wait for them to calm down and serve you
coffee and cake?

Or do you decide that you really don't care to know
those people, after all, and that you would rather spend
your limited spare time with people who know how to
resolve their differences with consideration and
courtesy toward each other?

It is a truism--How people in a group treat each other
is how they will treat YOU.

To me, it is no wonder at all, that some people decline
to join Nova Roma after a peek through our 'window.'

---
Renata Corva


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Edictum Propraetoricium LXIII about the dismissal of two Scribae
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:29:56 +0200

Ex Officio Propraetoris Thules

Edictum Propraetoricium LXIII about the dismissal of two Scribae.

It is with the greatest regret and sadness that I feel forced to
dismiss the following two ladies. Claudia Maxima Dea have been
contacted many times during more than a year, she has done very
little to fullfil her missions and she hasn't answered mail about her
tasks. Alexandria Iulia Agrippa have since I told her of this edictum
sent me some explanation, which is the way I prefer. Still no one of
these ladies has asked to be relieved in the way I would prefer.

I and my assistants are overloaded with work and don't have any more
time to give these ladies any new chances. They must go!

I. I hereby _dismiss_ Claudia Maxima Dea as Procuratrix Informatoria
Thules et Praeses et Decemvir Conventus Informatoria Thules

II. I hereby _dismiss_ Alexandria Iulia Agrippa and thank her for her
interest as Scriba Exploratrix Secunda Academia Thules

III. This edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given October the 12th, in the year of the consulship of Marcus
Octavius Germanicus and Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix 2755 AUC.

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Propraetor Thules
--
--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Justica, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:34:57 -0500

Ave

If we are a nation, we need to tax. Citizenship should absolutely carry fiscal responsibility with it. If we have 2,000 members, and each member must pay $100.00 a year in taxes, thats $200,000 a year. Then we can make our dreams a reality. A $100.00 in the big scheme of things is nothing. The question here is are we a Roman Dungeons and Dragons, or are we a real micro-nation. Fund raising is a pain in the ass, its inconsistent, and few of us have the time to do it. As a Mason in my macro nation, we run HOSPITALS FOR CHILDREN based on dues alone, and many of our members are people of limited means, but are committed to the cause.

An initiation fee plus yearly taxes. Money is what its all about in a macronation, in ancient Rome, and it should be no different here. When it comes to making things happen, it takes money. End of story. I got no time for cheapskates and jaw flapping when it comes to this issue. If we don't tax or collect dues, its all just talk., we are relegated to the dustbin of geeky shut-ins punching away on our computers wearing togas.

Vale

Gavis Basilicatvs Agricola

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: G.Porticus Brutis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A Modest Proposal and the landproject

Hail Nova Roma
I do belive this would work,if you can get others to work it out.We all know how much we could be giving.The ?'s that should be asked is why we should not give.I know I'm still very new to NR but it's up to us to make people understand that NR must meet its goal if we are to be looked at as a true state.Not just a state of mind.Let us set the bar high and if some can't reach it than don't look down them for not trying,but rather the one's that don't care.We whom can give $1000.00us should and be the standard for others to see and follow.If one publicly shows he's given then others well do as he's done[or she sorry ].As I've said I'm new and I don't know if there's dues for joining or what money should be given.I hope to give to the NR land but didn't know if there is set in place rules to giving or if your reqierd to pay dues?if you can help me with the rules to NR about dues I'd thank you for it.

G.Porticus Brutis

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:36:10 -0500

Are we not a 501(3)C organization!?!?!

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Modest Proposal and the landproject

Salvete omnes,

Forgive me if this has already been addressed but something we should
look at is getting a tax deduction number something like the charity
and other non- profit organizations do. In this way people who could,
would be more likely to donate something like the 1000.00 mentioned.
The only problem I see is that Nova Roma is incorporated and based
out of the good old USA. Unfortunately, Revenue Canada (like your
IRS) rules that any donations to charities or non - profit
organizations are only detuctable to those that are based or work
within Canada. This could be the same situation with the Europeans. I
learned that the hard way when I donated 1000.00 to a charity in
India. If I rememember correctly, the Senate talking about having NR
registred in different states and countries. Any comments or thoughts
on this?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I am posting this to the main list as there are 366 citizens on the
> main list (out of 1554 which is another question for later) and
less
> that 40 on the land project site.
>
> Is it possible for the person/s who maintain the main Nova Roma web
> site to have catogories added to the paypal so that when we send in
> our taxes in January( or before) we can check a space that tells
the
> powers that be this is for taxes? If catogories are possible can
one
> be added for the land project?
>
> Making a leap of faith that this can be done here is my modest
> proposal for the land project. Starting with January 1 2756 A.U.C.
> Citizens can (when they can) post through paypal( or mail) a
donation
> of $1000.00 U.S. Dollars. If all 1554 Citzens donate the full
> $1000.00 we can collect for the Land project
>
> 1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. yes that was
>
> 1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. !!!
>
> No I don't have extra money gathering dust but, if we send in the
> money over ONE year it amounts to $84 per month or $21.00 per week
or
> $2.976 per day. If you can't sent the $21.00 one week you can send
> more another week as long as we send in $1000.00 by the end of one
> year. If the Citizens of Nova Roma can not part with less that $3.
> per day to help the land fund we have bigger problems that the
level
> of discourse on the main list. So here is my modest proposal, what
do
> you think?
>
> Vale,
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortes fortuna iuvat ( Fortune helps the brave)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Impressed? Not in the least.
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:45:45 -0500

Agreed, Sulla.

This isn't some hippy, crystal stroking, love circle, bunny loving endeavor. We want to recreate the best of what was Rome. And one of the best things about it was spirited debate. I hate bi-partisianship. Its an insane concept. I want no part of some Socialist Utopian experiment. I want the best ideas to rise to the top in the vortex of disagreement.

Vale
Giavs Basilicatvs Agricola

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Impressed? Not in the least.

Avete Omnes,

We treat each other in Nova Roma pretty much exactly the same as the ancients treated themselves. We have recreated a society that is volitile, fluid and of differing views. This is why scholars have been viewing us for a number of years because we paint a picture of how ancient Rome truly was. Full of politcs, conflict, and pettyiness. But that is only part of the picture on the other side you have the culture, the closeness of the gentes, the genuine attempt to build (and maintain) our community. Both sides are essential to learning about how the ancients were.

When you read Livy, Plutarch or Tacitus you can at one hand see the very best of Rome and its flaws. Nova Roma has and is always trying to achieve that. With human nature the way it is, it just is easier for us to view the negative first because at times it is more prominent.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: aerdensrw
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 7:50 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Impressed? Not in the least.

Salve, G. Porticus Brutus (or whoever I am quoting
below) If the attribution is wrong, I apologize; it
is difficult for me to tell who is quoting whom,
sometimes, in these list messages.

GPB: Presenting a false face to the outside world is
_not_ consistent with any code of virtues that I know
of; certainly not with my personal one. In my opinion,
anyone who can't handle real discussion, the kind that
is prompted by dealing with important issues, would
have a far better time in news://alt.cuddle than in
NovaRoma.

Renata: While I agree that it is better to present an
honest, though ugly, view into NR's community than a
falsely pretty one, let me describe what I see through
the window:

I see Nova Romans who sometimes engage in very
interesting discussions of Roman religion, culture,
history, and archaeological discoveries. It is only
because of those discussions that I stay.

Through that same window, I ALSO see a Nova Roma that
often acts more like a domestic disturbance than it does
like people who are interested in working toward any
sort of common goal other than mutually assured
vivisection. I frequently ask myself why I stick
around, when I see NR folks acting like that.

I ask you, if you went to visit someone you didn't know
well, only to arrive and discover that they are
screaming at each other and throwing things, do you
stay and wait for them to calm down and serve you
coffee and cake?

Or do you decide that you really don't care to know
those people, after all, and that you would rather spend
your limited spare time with people who know how to
resolve their differences with consideration and
courtesy toward each other?

It is a truism--How people in a group treat each other
is how they will treat YOU.

To me, it is no wonder at all, that some people decline
to join Nova Roma after a peek through our 'window.'

---
Renata Corva


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Mithraism
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 11:00:56 -0700 (PDT)

All--I found an interesting article on Mithraism, if
anyone wishes to look at it:

http://www.ku.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Gazetteer/Periods/Roman/Topics/Religion/Mithraism/David_
Fingrut**.html

---
Renata Corva

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:59:57 -0700

Ave,

We are a 501 (C)(3) Not for profit Corporation.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Modest Proposal and the landproject

Are we not a 501(3)C organization!?!?!

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Modest Proposal and the landproject

Salvete omnes,

Forgive me if this has already been addressed but something we should
look at is getting a tax deduction number something like the charity
and other non- profit organizations do. In this way people who could,
would be more likely to donate something like the 1000.00 mentioned.
The only problem I see is that Nova Roma is incorporated and based
out of the good old USA. Unfortunately, Revenue Canada (like your
IRS) rules that any donations to charities or non - profit
organizations are only detuctable to those that are based or work
within Canada. This could be the same situation with the Europeans. I
learned that the hard way when I donated 1000.00 to a charity in
India. If I rememember correctly, the Senate talking about having NR
registred in different states and countries. Any comments or thoughts
on this?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I am posting this to the main list as there are 366 citizens on the
> main list (out of 1554 which is another question for later) and
less
> that 40 on the land project site.
>
> Is it possible for the person/s who maintain the main Nova Roma web
> site to have catogories added to the paypal so that when we send in
> our taxes in January( or before) we can check a space that tells
the
> powers that be this is for taxes? If catogories are possible can
one
> be added for the land project?
>
> Making a leap of faith that this can be done here is my modest
> proposal for the land project. Starting with January 1 2756 A.U.C.
> Citizens can (when they can) post through paypal( or mail) a
donation
> of $1000.00 U.S. Dollars. If all 1554 Citzens donate the full
> $1000.00 we can collect for the Land project
>
> 1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. yes that was
>
> 1 million 500 hundred and 54 thousand dollars U.S. !!!
>
> No I don't have extra money gathering dust but, if we send in the
> money over ONE year it amounts to $84 per month or $21.00 per week
or
> $2.976 per day. If you can't sent the $21.00 one week you can send
> more another week as long as we send in $1000.00 by the end of one
> year. If the Citizens of Nova Roma can not part with less that $3.
> per day to help the land fund we have bigger problems that the
level
> of discourse on the main list. So here is my modest proposal, what
do
> you think?
>
> Vale,
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortes fortuna iuvat ( Fortune helps the brave)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSES
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:30:03 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Aedilis Curulis Caeso Fabi,

These will be excellent Ludi. I am particularly impressed by the
faction web sites set up by you and your Quaestor,
Franciscus Apulus Caesar.

To support this effort, and add a bit of fun, I've added a feature
to the main site. Now, any citizen can declare support for one
of the four actions on their Album Civium page; a large colored
band with the name of their chosen faction will appear above
the personal information.

Citizens, to choose your faction (as it will be shown on your
Album Civium page), visit this URL:

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/prefs

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Apolgies re: my last message
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 20:24:49 +0100 (BST)

C. Porticus Brutis wrote:
> Hi jamie and welcome to the group.Hope you will love it here and have fun meeting > other like minded people.What is your new name that we should call you?

Thanks for your welcome. My citizenship application is being processed, so I haven't any Roman name yet. If my application is approved, I'll be Aulus Cremutius Cordus (after a bit-player in Tacitus' Annals).

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSES
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:54:07 +0200

Salve Senior Consul Illustrus Marcus Octavius Germanicus!

Thank You for your kind words and support!

>Salve Aedilis Curulis Caeso Fabi,
>
>These will be excellent Ludi. I am particularly impressed by the
>faction web sites set up by you and your Quaestor,
>Franciscus Apulus Caesar.
>
>To support this effort, and add a bit of fun, I've added a feature
>to the main site. Now, any citizen can declare support for one
>of the four actions on their Album Civium page; a large colored
>band with the name of their chosen faction will appear above
>the personal information.
>
>Citizens, to choose your faction (as it will be shown on your
>Album Civium page), visit this URL:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/bin/prefs
>
>Vale, Octavius.
>
>
>--
>Marcus Octavius Germanicus
>Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
>Curator Araneum et Senator

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Justica, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 13:18:46 -0700 (PDT)

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola scripsit:

> If we are a nation, we need to tax.

I think that much has been agreed already. We have
a modest tax, one which was instituted after much
discussion and debate, and which is still considered
burdensome by some of our citizens.

> Citizenship should absolutely carry fiscal
> responsibility with it.

While I agree, and I think many others do too, I'll
point out that the citizenship many Nova Romani
obtained carried no such obligation. Nor has it
always been clear that taxes were required of our
citizens when they joined Nova Roma. Since
citizenship includes no requirement to read this
mailing list, it is better to leave the questions
of increasing taxes to the Senate and the elected
magistrates, I think.

> If we have 2,000 members,

We don't.

> and each member must pay $100.00 a year in taxes,

They don't.

> thats $200,000 a year. Then we can make our
> dreams a reality.

Some of them perhaps. Some would cost far more.

> A $100.00 in the big scheme of things is nothing.

To you, perhaps. To other of our citizens, it is.

> The question here is are we a Roman Dungeons
> and Dragons, or are we a real micro-nation.

I think that casting the issue in those terms serves
no good purpose, and angers those who have opposed
increasing taxes on many grounds.

> As a Mason in my macro nation, we
> run HOSPITALS FOR CHILDREN based on dues alone,

How nice for you.

I have the greatest appreciation for the Masonic
hospitals, but I think you're being quite unrealistic
if you think you can coerce the citizens of Nova Roma
into taxing themselves more heavily by this
comparison. Nova Roma is not a masonic lodge.
Trying to compare the two is like comparing apples
and bananas.

> and many of our members are people of limited
> means, but are committed to the cause.

There are different levels of commitment. Let
us not dismiss the commitment of those citizens
who give little, lest we find them giving nothing.

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scribus Legitimus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:21:18 -0400

Gavis Basilicatvs Agricola;

In order for people to feel compelled to be freely taxed they need to realize a return on their investment.

I cannot see an inititiation fee within Nova Roma (unlike the Masons) since NR is not an initiatory institution. However, I would like to see Provinces conducting fundraising projects.

In Fellowship:

G. Cassivs Athanasivs

In a message dated 10/12/2002 12:34:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlasalle@kc.rr.com writes:

>
>
> Ave
>
> If we are a nation, we need to tax. Citizenship should absolutely carry fiscal responsibility with it. If we have 2,000 members, and each member must pay $100.00 a year in taxes, thats $200,000 a year. Then we can make our dreams a reality. A $100.00 in the big scheme of things is nothing. The question here is are we a Roman Dungeons and Dragons, or are we a real micro-nation. Fund raising is a pain in the ass, its inconsistent, and few of us have the time to do it. As a Mason in my macro nation, we run HOSPITALS FOR CHILDREN based on dues alone, and many of our members are people of limited means, but are committed to the cause.
>
> An initiation fee plus yearly taxes. Money is what its all about in a macronation, in ancient Rome, and it should be no different here. When it comes to making things happen, it takes money. End of story. I got no time for cheapskates and jaw flapping when it comes to this issue. If we don't tax or collect dues, its all just talk., we are relegated to the dustbin of geeky shut-ins punching away on our computers wearing togas.
>
> Vale
>
> Gavis Basilicatvs Agricola


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:44:25 -0500

"it is better to leave the questions
of increasing taxes to the Senate and the elected
magistrates, I think"

I think its better to let the citizens to discuss it as they wish. As a Roman citizen, and a lifelong student of Roman history, the above statement is almost laughable.

"I think that casting the issue in those terms serves
no good purpose, and angers those who have opposed
increasing taxes on many grounds."

Why would it anger them? Truth sometimes makes folks angry.

"How nice for you."

You need to put a lid on your little priggish snipes. It is "nice" for the thousands of children whose lives we saved.

"I have the greatest appreciation for the Masonic
hospitals, but I think you're being quite unrealistic
if you think you can coerce the citizens of Nova Roma
into taxing themselves more heavily by this
comparison. Nova Roma is not a masonic lodge.
Trying to compare the two is like comparing apples
and bananas."

I wish to "coerce" no one. Its an idea I'm throwing out there. Don't worry, your wallet is still intact. The comparison is purely fiscal. They raise lots of money easily, quickly, and eficiently thru dues. The use of those funds certainly changes from organization to organization. You know what I meant. You're trying to cloud the issue with inanities.

"There are different levels of commitment. Let
us not dismiss the commitment of those citizens
who give little, lest we find them giving nothing."

Don't put words in my mouth. I dismissed the commitment of no one. Different levels of commitment, however, could define different levels of citizenship. Not an unheard of concept.

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A Modest Proposal and the landproject

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola scripsit:

> If we are a nation, we need to tax.

I think that much has been agreed already. We have
a modest tax, one which was instituted after much
discussion and debate, and which is still considered
burdensome by some of our citizens.

> Citizenship should absolutely carry fiscal
> responsibility with it.

While I agree, and I think many others do too, I'll
point out that the citizenship many Nova Romani
obtained carried no such obligation. Nor has it
always been clear that taxes were required of our
citizens when they joined Nova Roma. Since
citizenship includes no requirement to read this
mailing list, it is better to leave the questions
of increasing taxes to the Senate and the elected
magistrates, I think.

> If we have 2,000 members,

We don't.

> and each member must pay $100.00 a year in taxes,

They don't.

> thats $200,000 a year. Then we can make our
> dreams a reality.

Some of them perhaps. Some would cost far more.

> A $100.00 in the big scheme of things is nothing.

To you, perhaps. To other of our citizens, it is.

> The question here is are we a Roman Dungeons
> and Dragons, or are we a real micro-nation.

I think that casting the issue in those terms serves
no good purpose, and angers those who have opposed
increasing taxes on many grounds.

> As a Mason in my macro nation, we
> run HOSPITALS FOR CHILDREN based on dues alone,

How nice for you.

I have the greatest appreciation for the Masonic
hospitals, but I think you're being quite unrealistic
if you think you can coerce the citizens of Nova Roma
into taxing themselves more heavily by this
comparison. Nova Roma is not a masonic lodge.
Trying to compare the two is like comparing apples
and bananas.

> and many of our members are people of limited
> means, but are committed to the cause.

There are different levels of commitment. Let
us not dismiss the commitment of those citizens
who give little, lest we find them giving nothing.

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scribus Legitimus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Modest Proposal and the landproject
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:53:17 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Gai Basilicate,

> "it is better to leave the questions of increasing taxes to the
> Senate and the elected magistrates, I think"
>
> I think its better to let the citizens to discuss it as they wish. As
> a Roman citizen, and a lifelong student of Roman history, the above
> statement is almost laughable.

Both perspectives are correct, really... the Constitution explicitly
grants the rights to set the tax rates to the Senate - but citizens
should be able to discuss the issue, and influence Senators. Senators
who wish to run for political office in the future would do well to
take the views of citizens into consideration.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Survey of CitizenTalents
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:34:19 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: Timothy P. Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 7:04 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Survey of CitizenTalents

Savle,

I know that the land project is on going and it might be some time
before we have a place to call Rome, but have the Censors ( or any
one else) ever done a survey of what the citizens of Nova Roma do in
the Macro world?

Do we have any urban planners? Do we have any architects? Do we have
citizens who can design and build a water system. Do we have people
who could start a culinary school in New Rome? Yes we can hire people
to do these thing but what talents do our citizens have. I for one am
a school teacher are there others? Just someting to get a discussion
going.

Avete Omnes,

I apologize for posting this late, but late is better than never. <g>

I have public administration experience working for the Registrar of Voters (as an employee at a polling site and as a supervisor at a polling location), city planning experience by volunteering with the City of Riverside Planning Commission and by completing various governmental courses within my Bachelors Degree. My bachelors degree was a major in Political Science with an emphasis in Public Administration.

I also have a Paralegals degree which focused on everyday law (contracts, bankruptcy, credit, criminal law, torts, legal procedure, probate and other fields.)

I have a Masters Degree in Business Administration and am currently in the financial department of Earthlink. Having been promoted from Technical Support. I deal with the financial records of Earthlink including access to the company's General Ledger. My primary focus is with Earthlink's largest business accounts (Sprint, Charter Communications, etc), both of which are bill monthly over a million dollars each. I have worked on special projects that deal with reconciliation of billing records dealing with the entire spectrum of accounts from High dollar accounts to individual accounts. Unfortunately this wont have allot of impact regarding the development of NR till we hire contractors and need to deal with A/R (Accounts Receivable)and A/P (Accounts Payable).

It is my desire in the next couple of years to obtain my law degree and specialize in contracts and contract management.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]