Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: LUDI VICTORIA: quarters
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:05:01 -0000

Salve Amice,

maybe it's not your driver but your Factio!
Try to change colours mix with more red and less blue ;-)

Vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., equitius_marinus@y... wrote:
> Salix Galaicus reports:
>
> > GROUP D
> [...]
> > Ars Longa
> > driver: Petronius Gnipho
> > by Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> > Factio: Albata
>
> > Results:
> [...]
> > 4th : Ars Longa
>
> [...]
> > Ars Longa reduces the good luck of his factio with a lamentable
race.
> > His driver Petronius sneezed on having turned a curve of the
track,
> > lost the control of his chariot, went out to the street and he
> > couldnīt stop his horses up to the capitolium.
>
> I'm pleased to inform the racing community that Petronius Gnipho
> has embarked on a new nautical career, and will not be seen in
> the Circus again.
>
> Fortunately, I got enough for him that my wagers were covered.
>
> Anyone have a driver to recommend? My factotum is looking...
>
>
> Valete!
>
> -- Marinus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] VICTORIAE THEATRE: A Viperous Queen
From:	"Proculus Postumius Nero" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:38:31 -0400

Salvete Omnes!

Let me at once recommend watching this great piece of work! I could not in
words express the greatness of this work, so for that you must see for
yourself. But, my fellow citizens, you should all stop in and see this. I
tell you, I've not yet seen anything that ranks anywhere near the greatness
of this, in every way known. Too, let me express my gratitude to the Aedilis
Curulis, Caeso Fabius, and his scriba and Quaestor, Franciscus Apulus, as
well as to the poet himself, Quintus Cassius. A voiciferous "Optime!" to all
of you for your maximal work on this!

I know my words are getting redundant, but I just can't find the words to
say what I'd like to. So, my fellow citizens, please stop in and look at
this. You won't be dissapointed at all.

Optime Valete in Pace Deorum,

Proculus Postumius Nero Drusus Sepulchratus,
Retiarius Lacuum Magnorum
Scriba Curatoris Araneae
Discipolus Anno Tertio Linguae Latinae
Civis Lacuum Magnorum Provinciae
Civis Patriae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima

"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" -- Q. Horati Flacci

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] ways to get new citizens
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:49:18 +0200

Salvete,

I also will be contributing more taxes than is required of me. Certainly 12
USD is not much money. I thought that the tax would be much higher :-p

I have a lot of experience organizing in a non-profit Pagan organization
with 6000 members (Pagan Federation) and I hope that my experience can be
useful here.

This list is open, but I never really thought that it should be. Some people
become citizens, gain a great deal of knowledge and experience via Nova Roma
and yet don't contribute financially to the group.
I would like to make a suggestion: I think that the taxes should be
collected when the person applies for citizenship, to be paid yearly on the
anniversary of their citizenship. I know that would make it clearly a
membership fee rather than a tax, but every organiziation needs money, even
if we consider ourselves a micronation. This would mean that we would need a
database to keep track of this and to send out renewals. This isn't too
difficult, it just takes a bit of organization. I know that this sounds
crude, but if a citizen won't contribute the proposed tax fees, which are
quite low and more than fair imho, then they don't believe in Nova Roma very
much.

What Nova Roma needs to do in order to attract more paying citizens is to
clearly state what the person gets for their 12$ tax. Right now, it APPEARS
to a newcomer that they will be paying a fee to be on an open mailing list.
Nova Roma is more than that, as I well know, but I am trying to point out
what someone that finds Nova Roma by surfing may think. I think that all of
us see the advantages of being in NR, but a newcomer might not. For example,
just the generosity of Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintillianus towards the 9 Nova
Romans present at the Nova Roma Rally in Tongeren surely would have paid my
taxes for a few years :-) In any case, even if our Honorable Caeso were not
so generous, it would have been worth paying taxes for 10 years just to
enjoy the comraderie that we all shared.

What we need to do is to offer more 'citizen's only' services so that
becoming a citizen (and paying the tax fee) will have more obvious
advantages to the uninformed. For example, closed email lists, a member's
only newsletter listing NR (or non-NR activities of Roman interest), new
archeological findings, a list of citizens in their area, citizen's only
activities, etc.

Anyway, that was just my opinion. I have been thinking a great deal lately
on ways to attract more citizens. Honestly, what I stated above worked in
the Pagan Federation. By implementing only what I wrote in the paragraph
above, I increased the membership in Belgica by 750 percent in 3 years. If
NR could did half as well, we would have a 1200 x 350% increase in
membership. I need my calculator to figure out how many citizens that would
be :-)

Valete & sleep well to the NR citizens in Europa!

Diana Moravia Aventina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] To all members in the U. S. state of Georgia...or those close by
From:	jennifer palacio <danzigskin@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:44:47 -0700 (PDT)

I too am from the Atlanta area, Alpharetta to be
exact. I'm not a citizen yet. Hopefully soon though!
--- Barry Smith <bsmith3121@msn.com> wrote:
> Welcome to Nova Roma. This is a very interesting and
> diverse group. I am certain that you will find
> something to interest you. I am in Georgia as well -
> Tucker area to be exact. Hope that you did not get
> tied up in that cattle wreck on I-75 today.
>
> Caius Titinius Varus
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Donald Hall
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:36 PM
> To: 'Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] To all members in the U. S.
> state of Georgia...or those close by!!
>
> Vale, Publius Caelius -
>
> I'm a recently confirmed citizen of Nova Roma,
> and live in Marietta
> (although I belong to the gens Caecilia Metella, of
> Germania).
>
> You should be hearing from the censors
> shortly...my application was
> approved in three days. This mailing list is a good
> place to start getting
> involved...I'm still poking around Nova Roma myself,
> trying to find message
> boards or areas of interest. My own interests are
> in Roman Politics and
> Military Strategy, so we seem to have something in
> common!
>
> I've a meeting coming up in two or three
> minutes, but will write more
> later.
>
> - Quintus Caecilius Metellus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Rogers [mailto:wlr107@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:35 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] To all members in the U. S.
> state of Georgia...or
> those close by!!
>
>
>
> Salve!
>
> I have applied to join Nova-Roma, and I await word
> from the Censors
> on the confirmation of my application.
>
> Is there anyone close to Atlanta? If so, I would be
> very pleased to
> visit with you...and maybe we can get a South
> Eastern U.S. "reunion"
> going!
>
> I would like to get active in Nova Roma, but I am
> not sure where to
> go. If Someone would like a client...let me know!
>
> I am interested in Rome's political system,
> military, and the culture
> in general.
>
> Feel free to write!
>
> Publius Caelius Rufus (Hopefully)
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service. Get more from the Web. FREE MSN
> Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] To all members in the U. S. state of Georgia...or those close by
From:	"Barry Smith" <bsmith3121@msn.com>
Date:	Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:23:22 -0400

It seems like we are getting an increasing number of cives in Georgia. Perhaps we should all gather in the spring in Rome, Georgia. That would be cool - Roman days in Rome. I hope that you hear back from the censors soon. What roman name will you take? We could probably go for a few more Titinia.

Caius Titinius Varus

----- Original Message -----
From: jennifer palacio
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:03 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] To all members in the U. S. state of Georgia...or those close by

I too am from the Atlanta area, Alpharetta to be
exact. I'm not a citizen yet. Hopefully soon though!
--- Barry Smith <bsmith3121@msn.com> wrote:
> Welcome to Nova Roma. This is a very interesting and
> diverse group. I am certain that you will find
> something to interest you. I am in Georgia as well -
> Tucker area to be exact. Hope that you did not get
> tied up in that cattle wreck on I-75 today.
>
> Caius Titinius Varus
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Donald Hall
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:36 PM
> To: 'Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] To all members in the U. S.
> state of Georgia...or those close by!!
>
> Vale, Publius Caelius -
>
> I'm a recently confirmed citizen of Nova Roma,
> and live in Marietta
> (although I belong to the gens Caecilia Metella, of
> Germania).
>
> You should be hearing from the censors
> shortly...my application was
> approved in three days. This mailing list is a good
> place to start getting
> involved...I'm still poking around Nova Roma myself,
> trying to find message
> boards or areas of interest. My own interests are
> in Roman Politics and
> Military Strategy, so we seem to have something in
> common!
>
> I've a meeting coming up in two or three
> minutes, but will write more
> later.
>
> - Quintus Caecilius Metellus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Rogers [mailto:wlr107@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:35 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] To all members in the U. S.
> state of Georgia...or
> those close by!!
>
>
>
> Salve!
>
> I have applied to join Nova-Roma, and I await word
> from the Censors
> on the confirmation of my application.
>
> Is there anyone close to Atlanta? If so, I would be
> very pleased to
> visit with you...and maybe we can get a South
> Eastern U.S. "reunion"
> going!
>
> I would like to get active in Nova Roma, but I am
> not sure where to
> go. If Someone would like a client...let me know!
>
> I am interested in Rome's political system,
> military, and the culture
> in general.
>
> Feel free to write!
>
> Publius Caelius Rufus (Hopefully)
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service. Get more from the Web. FREE MSN
> Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Subject:	R: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 210
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:36:22 +0200

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.p:D.

> For the Semis: 1 green, 2 blues, 3 whites and 10 reds!!

Hey, where is the great champions coloured of green?
Maybe the green became opaque ... ?!

RUSSATA .... ra ra ra

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] To all members in the U. S. state of Georgia...or those close by
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:55:13 -0700 (PDT)

jennifer palacio writes:

> I too am from the Atlanta area, Alpharetta to be
> exact. I'm not a citizen yet. Hopefully soon though!

Welcome to Nova Roma, Jennifer. I look forward to
addressing you by a Roman name soon.

I'm a little further north, living in the province
of Mediatlantica (just south of the Mason-Dixon line,
near where the barbarian Damnyancii live.)

Vale!


=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
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Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Land tax stuff...
From:	Al E Keller <steeldriver@juno.com>
Date:	Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:37:50 -0500

Salvete....

I have been a civis for about a week and read all the tax stuff.

I am wondering when the tax is required to be sent and if it's possible
to send it via check? I am a disabled college student living with mom
and did have "secondary" status on her credit card but when I started
buying up books for my favorite RPG online when the publisher announced
"Going out of Business" eventually she didn't make me "secondary" when
she changed the credit card...

So if I'm going to pay tax for land then check is the only way.

Vale, L Porticus Brutus

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yelbrim Skrain Bodak
Intelligence/Communications
DCS Ravek / Marnak, 7th Order

________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] To all members in the U. S. state of Georgia...or those close...
From:	StarVVreck@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:06:25 EDT

Salvete Georgians,

There is a provincial yahoogroup for America Austrorientalis, which includes
the macronational state of Georgia.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Austrorientalis/ I just switched from "No
Emails" to "Individual Emails" today.

A get together of Georgia's Nova Roma citizens would be a great idea but
while Nova Romans meeting in Georgia's Rome might be ironic, Rome is a bit
out of the way. Possibly Stone Mountain Park, Lake Lanier, or the National
Appalachian Park region near Dahlonega would be more convenient and
accommodating for a Georgia Nova Roma gathering.

I propose an open dialogue to begin a regional gathering in Georgia on the
Austrorientalis yahoo group. If enough people become involved we might even
have to rent some space and hire caterers or some sort of vendors. However
most likely everyone will just have to pitch in for some Fried Chicken and
Coca-Cola. I'll pledge to bring 2 cases of Coke and the coolers (I have 2 of
the ones so big you can't carry them while full). Anyway, everyone in
Georgia sign up for the Yahoo Group and after the final plans are made the
official announcement for the gathering can be made on the main list with at
least a couple of weeks warning. A big Nova Roma meeting in Georgia IS
possible!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Austrorientalis/

Valete,

Iulius Titinius Antonius


In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:22:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bsmith3121@msn.com writes:


> It seems like we are getting an increasing number of cives in Georgia.
> Perhaps we should all gather in the spring in Rome, Georgia. That would be
> cool - Roman days in Rome. I hope that you hear back from the censors soon.
> What roman name will you take? We could probably go for a few more Titinia.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Tax rate - an axample
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 06:27:58 +0000

Salvete Omnes:

I didn't expect so many to take this land project so seriously, at this
point in time, it being so premature, and it keeps coming back. Consul
Cornelius is one of the few people who spoke elequently and realistically
about this issue.

It is not just buying a couple of acres and putting up a nice building,
and maybe a theme park and call it a country, and for people to go to, for
vacation with the kids, dressed in a toga. I even doubt it if most of the
citizenry would want that.

The most important thing to do at this time is to consolidate Novaroma
and build up the infrastructure of the citizenry and community, learn about
history and the people who made that history, educate ourselves about being
Romans, and all those values of family, of honor, of comitas, of pietas..and
the rest. And as the good Consul pointed out; concentrate on the short term
goals: the magazine, the coins, the tax, become an information source..and
the rest. You realize that only 14% of the citizenry paid tax. AND MOST
IMPORTANT OF ALL IS TO LEARN LATIN. YOU CANNOT CALL YOURSELF A ROMAN IF YOU
DO NOT SPEAK A MODICUM OF LATIN, AT LEAST.

We are only 1,500 cives, and when we become 10,000 cives, then, maybe,
we could start thinking about the land project, and I want to emphasize the
word MAYBE.

One thing at a time. I can't even use the analogy of the horse and a
cart, because we have neither the horse nor the cart, not yet.

As to the dreaming, it is proper to do. But don't count on living that
dream. The realization of the dreams is not for us. Just like we live and
reap the dreams and works of those who came before us. They did the
dreaming and the work and we reap it. Remember the Roman saying of planting
the tree, but not living long enough to eat the fruit.

Dreams don't happen from one day to the other, and this is not
television either. This is the real world. I can see some people making
faces already. Sorry amicos! No DisneyRoma for you until you learn your
Latin first.

and valete

Galerius Peregrinator.






>From: "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tax rate - an axample
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:01:25 -0700
>
>Avete G. Porticus,
>
>I respectfully must disagree with you on this issue. We are not just a
>micronation, we are also a Not for Profit Corporation. We should take
>adequate steps to protect ourselves.
>
>Unless land is going to be donated to Nova Roma (also a tax deduction in
>the
>US). I have not been changed in my point of view that land is a Long term
>goal (if lucky I will see it in my life time).
>
>As I posted before, to build up Nova Roma's credibility both within the
>organization and outside we should focus on short-term goals that can be
>accomplished within a year. For example, reinstituting coinage each year
>with the names of the Consuls. Secondly, reinstituting the Eagle (and make
>it a more professional magazine instead of a news letter). Develop the
>resources of our website so that we would become the one-stop information
>source on ancient Rome (this will take substantially longer, I understand).
>Even public access TV shows in various areas of the country (this is
>something I am looking into). Roman Days type festivities in all parts of
>the world. Things like this help build the community. Land, on the other
>hand has the potential of being a very devisive issue. And, IMHO, we are
>just not fiscally ready.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>

_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Tax rate - an axample
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:13:04 -0700 (PDT)

I'm sorry to say this but this is just crap! How dare you build people up just to tear them down!I'm sorry if I'm over stepping me bounds but really man this is junk plan and simple. I join NR to be apart of something great, not the sca! This group has no goals but to play,learn and have fun.I'm not saying thats bad but its not what made me want to be a Nova Roman.If you brush me and others off, that feel this strongly about the land idea than you pushing away the future of NR.Your telling me that every person out here thats talked and brought ideas to the group has done this in vain.
You said "
It is not just buying a couple of acres and putting up a nice
building,
and maybe a theme park and call it a country, and for people to go to,
for
vacation with the kids, dressed in a toga. "

Ok get real man thats not what we're about,try reading all the postings left by people whom have given ideas about it.They want to make it work,and if you ask them they'll tell you just how far they will go.{like living there and building it with there bare hands,I'm looking to do just that}

here I agree "The most important thing to do at this time is to consolidate
Novaroma
and build up the infrastructure of the citizenry and community" but how are we going to consolidate and build up the community???A few years ago I did sales you know getting people to help you sale things to comp.but for every 10 people I had 8 would leave in just one day.The others just one week,and none after that.It was not the things being sold but the person pushing the idea of how to sale it.

Same here you must build the ones that just join and keep the ideas flowing to keep them here.Maybe if you would help some people around you that we would have more staying around.Just ask and see how many are active members and how many are gone.

DREAMERS ARE THE FUTURE and if you take the dream away like you have said in your post then welcome to the SCA where we can seat around and talk about old rome and speak Latin "good great fine" but your NR is just a joke then.

You said "We are only 1,500 cives, and when we become 10,000 cives, then,
maybe,
we could start thinking about the land project, and I want to emphasize
the
word MAYBE." Thank you for the maybe...Yes if we have more like 10,000 we could, I say work with what you have.IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE CART THEN BUILD IT.How many times are we willing to push others away by what we say but not the guts to try to bring them back.They most have join for some reason,and left for another.

YOU WANT TAXES TRY PUTTING IT ON THE WEB SITE WHERE PEOPLE CAN FIND IT.I've still not heard form anyone about where to send in moneys and how much we are to give.

you said"
As to the dreaming, it is proper to do. But don't count on living
that
dream.Dreams don't happen from one day to the other, and this is not
television either. This is the real world. I can see some people
making
faces already. Sorry amicos! No DisneyRoma for you until you learn
your
Latin first."

WHAT A TROLL THING TO SAY! You speak of honor and values I say you have nether.If you have honor you'd not tell others how to live there lives.Yes to learn Latin is good but to tell someone that I say your a jerk.Not because you don't think the way I do but to pick on others just because they do have a dream or because they may not speak the way you might.

I'm sorry if I may have made others mad thats not what I want to do but this post of his does nothing for NR'S greater good.

G.PORTICUS BRUTIS








Gaius Galerius Peregrinator <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com> wrote:

Salvete Omnes:

I didn't expect so many to take this land project so seriously, at this
point in time, it being so premature, and it keeps coming back. Consul
Cornelius is one of the few people who spoke elequently and realistically
about this issue.

It is not just buying a couple of acres and putting up a nice building,
and maybe a theme park and call it a country, and for people to go to, for
vacation with the kids, dressed in a toga. I even doubt it if most of the
citizenry would want that.

The most important thing to do at this time is to consolidate Novaroma
and build up the infrastructure of the citizenry and community, learn about
history and the people who made that history, educate ourselves about being
Romans, and all those values of family, of honor, of comitas, of pietas..and
the rest. And as the good Consul pointed out; concentrate on the short term
goals: the magazine, the coins, the tax, become an information source..and
the rest. You realize that only 14% of the citizenry paid tax. AND MOST
IMPORTANT OF ALL IS TO LEARN LATIN. YOU CANNOT CALL YOURSELF A ROMAN IF YOU
DO NOT SPEAK A MODICUM OF LATIN, AT LEAST.

We are only 1,500 cives, and when we become 10,000 cives, then, maybe,
we could start thinking about the land project, and I want to emphasize the
word MAYBE.

One thing at a time. I can't even use the analogy of the horse and a
cart, because we have neither the horse nor the cart, not yet.

As to the dreaming, it is proper to do. But don't count on living that
dream. The realization of the dreams is not for us. Just like we live and
reap the dreams and works of those who came before us. They did the
dreaming and the work and we reap it. Remember the Roman saying of planting
the tree, but not living long enough to eat the fruit.

Dreams don't happen from one day to the other, and this is not
television either. This is the real world. I can see some people making
faces already. Sorry amicos! No DisneyRoma for you until you learn your
Latin first.

and valete

Galerius Peregrinator.






>From: "L. Cornelius Sulla"
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tax rate - an axample
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:01:25 -0700
>
>Avete G. Porticus,
>
>I respectfully must disagree with you on this issue. We are not just a
>micronation, we are also a Not for Profit Corporation. We should take
>adequate steps to protect ourselves.
>
>Unless land is going to be donated to Nova Roma (also a tax deduction in
>the
>US). I have not been changed in my point of view that land is a Long term
>goal (if lucky I will see it in my life time).
>
>As I posted before, to build up Nova Roma's credibility both within the
>organization and outside we should focus on short-term goals that can be
>accomplished within a year. For example, reinstituting coinage each year
>with the names of the Consuls. Secondly, reinstituting the Eagle (and make
>it a more professional magazine instead of a news letter). Develop the
>resources of our website so that we would become the one-stop information
>source on ancient Rome (this will take substantially longer, I understand).
>Even public access TV shows in various areas of the country (this is
>something I am looking into). Roman Days type festivities in all parts of
>the world. Things like this help build the community. Land, on the other
>hand has the potential of being a very devisive issue. And, IMHO, we are
>just not fiscally ready.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Membership Fee (tax) rate adjustment
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:17:02 -0700 (PDT)

Hail Roma
Now this looks good M.Octavius Germanicus keep up the good work

Brutis




Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> wrote:Salve Decime Iuni,

> These figures look much more comparable
> macronationially than the current flat rate of $12,
> but will there be a proviso allowing to pay more if
> required?

Paying more is always allowed - you can have the payment credited to
someone else, or just consider it an additional donation. Many people
did this last year.

> I would guess that NR's income will drop,
> possibly quite substantially, in the first couple of
> years.

We'd be collecting less from most of Western Europe, but I think this
will be offset by substantially higher participation from Eastern
Europe and South America, who would benefit most from this adjustment.

Originally, I had planned to make the amount 1/2000 of GDP instead
of 1/3000; this would have raised the fees for the US to 18.00,
and in much of Europe it would have gone up nearly as much. But this
was not well received, several citizens expressed concern that it
was too soon after the establishment of the tax (last year) to be
raising it at all; therefore, the original proposal was withdrawn
and brought back with a smaller number.

> Would it be possible therefore (or even advisable
> perhaps??) to have a minimum rate of contribution
> based on the CIA's figures, and a recommended rate of
> contibution, with no penalty if only the minimum is
> paid.

The law should establish the minimum - but recommendations for higher
amounts can certainly be made, at the option of next year's Consuls.
The Consuls, Quaestores, and Curator Araneum will all work together
to set up a payment mechanism, and can decide on strategies for
obtaining amounts above the minimum.

For example, the payment page could have a grid format; the first
column would be the country name; the second button would be a
paypal button preset to send the minimum amount; the third column
would be a paypal button with a text field pre-populated with "$12.00"
but changeable:

USA || Minimum - $12.00 || Recommended - $12.00
|| [$12 PAYPAL BUTTON]|| [$12.00 ] [PAYPAL]
---------------------------------------------------------
UK || Minimum - $9.00 || Recommended - $12.00
|| [$9 PAYPAL BUTTON] || [$12.00 ] [PAYPAL]
---------------------------------------------------------
Brazil || Minimum - $4.00 || Recommended - $12.00
|| [$3 PAYPAL BUTTON] || [$12.00 ] [PAYPAL]

Such a setup would be fully compliant with the law, and would
encourage higher contributions.

> The recommended rate of contribution could be a
> figure if around 1.5 times the minimum figure. Thus:
> USA min $12, rec $18; UK min $7.5, rec $11.5; Brazil
> min $2, rec $3.

Easily done with the above setup (just change the values in the
text field in the rightmost paypal forms); I think this should be
an option of the Consuls of next year.

We could reward those who contribute the recommended amount with a
notation on their Album Civium page.

> >1. Proof of identity, in the form of copies of
> >macronational government-issued identification cards
>
> The wording here is pretty tight....Many countries,
> such as the UK, do not have government issued ID
> cards. Perhaps driving licence or passport details
> would be permissible?

I was thinking that driving licenses or passports would qualify as such,
as they are typically government-issued... but it would probably be
better to clarify it: it should read "government-issued identification
cards, driving licenses or passports". I'll make this change.

Thanks and Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:32:32 -0700 (PDT)

Hail Roma
Horatia Minucia Caesar Yes we should take things slow but just keep the ideas flowing in.If we where to buy land out right and something goes wrong we can sale it.Theres nothing keeping us there.If you start building than the price may go up, and if it seems like we may lose the land I belive the senate is made up of smart people whom could find away out.I don't see how that could stop us.We wouldn't buy land that we know we didn't own out right.

I don't speak for anyone but my house and my family when I say this but buy the land and I'll go to homestead on it.I'll build what I can and I'm sure others will also.

Brutis


Rachel <theladysabine@hotmail.com> wrote:--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@y...> wrote:
>
> Hail Roma
> I'd have to argue this with you.Sorry for the late reply but If we
had some place to show people we mean business then maybe people
would take us serious.If we have land and start to build on it the
news would follow this and more people would see us for whom we
are.Let us not put our heads in the ground let in turn show the world
that we're Romans.
> G.Porticus Brutis
>

Meaning business doesn't always mean being 'set in stone'...literally
or figuratively. I agree with others when they say that the land will
come in its own due time.


An Inner Monologue on Roman-imity that I Am Having Right Now:

What IS a Roman anyway? Is he your Average Joe in a toga and a small
house that vaguely resembles a Roman villa? Or is he a man who knows
Rome, her ways, a smattering of her tongue, her history, her
concerns, and her people? Is our Roman-ness only valid if tangible
and inventoried, like Hotspur's prowess in battle? If that last is
true, I am sadly no Roman by those standards. Great respect should be
given to him who builds his own shelter, but would you rather follow
a stout, full heart that lacks a roof or live in a sturdy castle void
of contentment, comraderie, family, and happiness? I came here
seeking fellow Romans and never expecting a physical homestead. The
Land Project makes me nervous because I fear we will get started and
get in over our heads, and be left holding a beautiful piece of land
upon which we don't have the funds or resources or man-and-woman-
power to build.

Ave Roma, Semper Immortalis, Senex cum Nova.
Horatia Minucia Caesar
Nova Britannia

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE OPENING OF THE SEMIFINALS OF THE LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSES!
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:35:40 +0200

Salvete Quirites!

I HEREBY OPEN THE SEMIFINALS OF THE LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSES!

These Semifinals of the Ludi Circenses will start today the 19th of
October. Please get to the Circus again and support your own
faction!!!

--
--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:37:39 -0700 (PDT)

May the Gods or God Bless you William Rogers this is the kind of people of whom I speak of.The one that are in to making NR great. Just 100 more and think of what we could do.
G.Porticus Brutis




William Rogers <wlr107@yahoo.com> wrote:Friend Sulla,

I agree with you on all these points, to be sure! We can (and with a
continued streak of good Senators, Consuls, and Censors) strive step-
by-step toward our common goal, a return of Rome on earth. Literally.

I think one of our strongest assets is our ability as Romans to work
together toward a common goal, even if we may disagree on HOW we get
there. Romans were know for the strong, determined, FOCUSED, method
in which they worked and played...I am sure that we here can pool our
combined intellect and come up with a series of long and short term
proposals/ideas/goals...and then get them done.

Maybe we can/should ask the Consuls/Senate to empanel a 7 person
commission to begin the process of selecting criteria, or something
of that nature.
P.C. Rufus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Avete G. Porticus,
>
> I respectfully must disagree with you on this issue. We are not
just a micronation, we are also a Not for Profit Corporation. We
should take adequate steps to protect ourselves.
>
> Unless land is going to be donated to Nova Roma (also a tax
deduction in the US). I have not been changed in my point of view
that land is a Long term goal (if lucky I will see it in my life
time).
>
> As I posted before, to build up Nova Roma's credibility both within
the organization and outside we should focus on short-term goals that
can be accomplished within a year. For example, reinstituting
coinage each year with the names of the Consuls. Secondly,
reinstituting the Eagle (and make it a more professional magazine
instead of a news letter). Develop the resources of our website so
that we would become the one-stop information source on ancient Rome
(this will take substantially longer, I understand).
> Even public access TV shows in various areas of the country (this is
> something I am looking into). Roman Days type festivities in all
parts of the world. Things like this help build the community.
Land, on the other hand has the potential of being a very devisive
issue. And, IMHO, we are
> just not fiscally ready.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:54:50 -0700 (PDT)

Thank you Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix For a well put Posting.Yes I agree that it will take alot of money but this does get the wheels a turning.We could get a list of people to whom may want to move there and maintain the land,and work to build up the land.This could cut off a little of the cost"just a little". It's athought!

Brutis




"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> wrote:Avete P.C. Rufus,

I agree with you that we all should strive together. But to empanel a portion of the Senate when the following factors have not been met would be a waste of resources:

1. A sustained source of revenue that would be able to pay for and maintain land. (We are talking about maybe $300k a year, around that number.)

I came up with this number thinking of the costs of maintaining the land once purchased, and insuring it. This does not count the costs for construction and zoning which can run into the millions of dollars.

2. A substantial and active population (I am thinking around 100,000 if not more)

Even if we do not have people willing to relocate there permanently, we will need citizens to pay the tax to maintain the land. Of course we will probably gain funds through tourism, but that is a variable and should not be used as a means to budget. Look at what happened after 9/11, tourism and travel industries have suffered greatly.

3. Enough funds in our coffers to purchase land (we are talking at least $500k)

This includes the amount of money we would need to purchase the land. On top of that there will obviously be other fees, and this is likely to cost substantially more if the land is barren and then you will have zoning fees as well.

None of the figures above takes into consideration the cost to build upon the land. If we take that into consideration the price tag will go up astronomically. The cost of materials, labor and planning is going to be just immense.

Even if we met one of these goals I would be more likely to support the creation of a committee in the Senate to debate on the possibility of land purchase.

In the interim, I think the best course of action for anyone in NR is to contribute in developing the cultural and provincial aspects of Nova Roma. Be this in the individual and gens level or in the sodalitas level. There is allot of work that should be done within the state we currently are in...and we should develop that before we jump into a new realm of existence. Especially when that new realm will create new areas of conflict and stress.

Most Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Rogers
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:38 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample


Friend Sulla,

I agree with you on all these points, to be sure! We can (and with a
continued streak of good Senators, Consuls, and Censors) strive step-
by-step toward our common goal, a return of Rome on earth. Literally.

I think one of our strongest assets is our ability as Romans to work
together toward a common goal, even if we may disagree on HOW we get
there. Romans were know for the strong, determined, FOCUSED, method
in which they worked and played...I am sure that we here can pool our
combined intellect and come up with a series of long and short term
proposals/ideas/goals...and then get them done.

Maybe we can/should ask the Consuls/Senate to empanel a 7 person
commission to begin the process of selecting criteria, or something
of that nature.
P.C. Rufus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Avete G. Porticus,
>
> I respectfully must disagree with you on this issue. We are not
just a micronation, we are also a Not for Profit Corporation. We
should take adequate steps to protect ourselves.
>
> Unless land is going to be donated to Nova Roma (also a tax
deduction in the US). I have not been changed in my point of view
that land is a Long term goal (if lucky I will see it in my life
time).
>
> As I posted before, to build up Nova Roma's credibility both within
the organization and outside we should focus on short-term goals that
can be accomplished within a year. For example, reinstituting
coinage each year with the names of the Consuls. Secondly,
reinstituting the Eagle (and make it a more professional magazine
instead of a news letter). Develop the resources of our website so
that we would become the one-stop information source on ancient Rome
(this will take substantially longer, I understand).
> Even public access TV shows in various areas of the country (this is
> something I am looking into). Roman Days type festivities in all
parts of the world. Things like this help build the community.
Land, on the other hand has the potential of being a very devisive
issue. And, IMHO, we are
> just not fiscally ready.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] ways to get new citizens
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:01:25 -0700 (PDT)

Hail Nova Roma
Diana has a good point and this would weed out the people that just want a cool name.I'll say good job to everyone who keeps putting out Ideas like this one.
Brutis

Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@pandora.be> wrote:Salvete,

I also will be contributing more taxes than is required of me. Certainly 12
USD is not much money. I thought that the tax would be much higher :-p

I have a lot of experience organizing in a non-profit Pagan organization
with 6000 members (Pagan Federation) and I hope that my experience can be
useful here.

This list is open, but I never really thought that it should be. Some people
become citizens, gain a great deal of knowledge and experience via Nova Roma
and yet don't contribute financially to the group.
I would like to make a suggestion: I think that the taxes should be
collected when the person applies for citizenship, to be paid yearly on the
anniversary of their citizenship. I know that would make it clearly a
membership fee rather than a tax, but every organiziation needs money, even
if we consider ourselves a micronation. This would mean that we would need a
database to keep track of this and to send out renewals. This isn't too
difficult, it just takes a bit of organization. I know that this sounds
crude, but if a citizen won't contribute the proposed tax fees, which are
quite low and more than fair imho, then they don't believe in Nova Roma very
much.

What Nova Roma needs to do in order to attract more paying citizens is to
clearly state what the person gets for their 12$ tax. Right now, it APPEARS
to a newcomer that they will be paying a fee to be on an open mailing list.
Nova Roma is more than that, as I well know, but I am trying to point out
what someone that finds Nova Roma by surfing may think. I think that all of
us see the advantages of being in NR, but a newcomer might not. For example,
just the generosity of Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintillianus towards the 9 Nova
Romans present at the Nova Roma Rally in Tongeren surely would have paid my
taxes for a few years :-) In any case, even if our Honorable Caeso were not
so generous, it would have been worth paying taxes for 10 years just to
enjoy the comraderie that we all shared.

What we need to do is to offer more 'citizen's only' services so that
becoming a citizen (and paying the tax fee) will have more obvious
advantages to the uninformed. For example, closed email lists, a member's
only newsletter listing NR (or non-NR activities of Roman interest), new
archeological findings, a list of citizens in their area, citizen's only
activities, etc.

Anyway, that was just my opinion. I have been thinking a great deal lately
on ways to attract more citizens. Honestly, what I stated above worked in
the Pagan Federation. By implementing only what I wrote in the paragraph
above, I increased the membership in Belgica by 750 percent in 3 years. If
NR could did half as well, we would have a 1200 x 350% increase in
membership. I need my calculator to figure out how many citizens that would
be :-)

Valete & sleep well to the NR citizens in Europa!

Diana Moravia Aventina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A new Roman to Welcome
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:15:16 -0700 (PDT)

Hail Nova Roma
I see that You are a man of honor L.Porticus Brutus.Thank you for showing our Gen Portica stands as one.I thank you for joining Nova Roma and the house of Portica.
Let us all here in Nova Roma welcome L. Porticus Brutus and hope that he may find friends in you all.I give my hand in friendship and brotherhood to you Brutus.May you grow in NR and learn from such a great bunch of people as is here.If you need anything or want to find out something ask and I'll try to help you.As for the tax I'm trying to find that out myself.
A brother to you a friend to me.
G.Porticus Brutis


Al E Keller <steeldriver@juno.com> wrote: Salvete....

I have been a civis for about a week and read all the tax stuff.

I am wondering when the tax is required to be sent and if it's possible
to send it via check? I am a disabled college student living with mom
and did have "secondary" status on her credit card but when I started
buying up books for my favorite RPG online when the publisher announced
"Going out of Business" eventually she didn't make me "secondary" when
she changed the credit card...

So if I'm going to pay tax for land then check is the only way.

Vale, L Porticus Brutus

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yelbrim Skrain Bodak
Intelligence/Communications
DCS Ravek / Marnak, 7th Order

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Tax rate - an axample
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 07:14:02 -0400

Very well said Galerius Peregrinator.

I think it is important that Nova Roma become MORE of a face to face community than a virtual community. Don't get me wrong. I think the NR website is one of the best updated sites of any organization that I belong to, and the e-mail lists are always interesting. But unless we are interacting with other New Romans in a face to face environment we have to ask ourselves, "what are we doing?"

I personally do not consider Nova Roma a role playing game. I know of people who are in the SCA who take on personas of people, but I am NOT Gaius Modius Athanasius an "ancient" Roman. I am Gaius Modius Athanasius a modern man living in 2002 who is a NEW Roman. I am not a persona, Modius is who I AM. Nor do I want G. Modius Athanasius to become just another "on-line" nickname. If I do not hear people saying, "hey Modius, do you want to go and get a cup of coffee," or whatever, then it is simply an on-line nickname.

Nova Roma existing as an on-line micronation/organization or whatever needs to be the exception. Every effort needs to be placed in face to face communication between citizens in their respective provinces. I know this is being done, but the fire needs a few more logs on it.

>From what I can tell, Nova Roma was built from the top down. More work needs to be done on the lower level. The Provincial, and lower level. We have Provinces, what about local working communities? Chapters?

I am very happy to be a part of Nova Roma. I have the dream...

In Fellowship;

Gaius Modius Athanasius


In a message dated Sat, 19 Oct 2002 06:27:58 +0000, gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com writes:


> Salvete Omnes:
>
> I didn't expect so many to take this land project so seriously, at this
> point in time, it being so premature, and it keeps coming back. Consul
> Cornelius is one of the few people who spoke elequently and realistically
> about this issue.
>
> It is not just buying a couple of acres and putting up a nice building,
> and maybe a theme park and call it a country, and for people to go to, for
> vacation with the kids, dressed in a toga. I even doubt it if most of the
> citizenry would want that.
>
> The most important thing to do at this time is to consolidate Novaroma
> and build up the infrastructure of the citizenry and community, learn about
> history and the people who made that history, educate ourselves about being
> Romans, and all those values of family, of honor, of comitas, of pietas..and
> the rest. And as the good Consul pointed out; concentrate on the short term
> goals: the magazine, the coins, the tax, become an information source..and
> the rest. You realize that only 14% of the citizenry paid tax. AND MOST
> IMPORTANT OF ALL IS TO LEARN LATIN. YOU CANNOT CALL YOURSELF A ROMAN IF YOU
> DO NOT SPEAK A MODICUM OF LATIN, AT LEAST.
>
> We are only 1,500 cives, and when we become 10,000 cives, then, maybe,
> we could start thinking about the land project, and I want to emphasize the
> word MAYBE.
>
> One thing at a time. I can't even use the analogy of the horse and a
> cart, because we have neither the horse nor the cart, not yet.
>
> As to the dreaming, it is proper to do. But don't count on living that
> dream. The realization of the dreams is not for us. Just like we live and
> reap the dreams and works of those who came before us. They did the
> dreaming and the work and we reap it. Remember the Roman saying of planting
> the tree, but not living long enough to eat the fruit.
>
> Dreams don't happen from one day to the other, and this is not
> television either. This is the real world. I can see some people making
> faces already. Sorry amicos! No DisneyRoma for you until you learn your
> Latin first.
>
> and valete
>
> Galerius Peregrinator.

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Tax rate - an axample
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 07:33:28 -0400

G. Porticus Brutis;

I understand your frustration, but I think what Galerius Peregrinator was trying to illustrate is the fact that for Nova Roma to actually get land, and build an actual country on it is going to be a long long process. If you want to be a part of this process you will HAVE to be a visionary and hold onto that dream for a LONG time. This will not be an instant results endeavor, but one that will require a life time of effort. Many people will get frustrated and leave, it will be those who have a sustained vision and who have the fortitude to stick with it.

I see why you feel he was putting down the whole land idea, but if you read closely I don't think that is the case. Land is important to all of us, or it should be. But "Rome was not built in a day."

I view all of us as a Roman Diaspora. The Jewish community lived, essentially, in exile of thier homeland for a long time. Why should we be so arrogant to think we can get everything overnight?

In Fellowship;

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 10/19/2002 4:13:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, celtic4usa@yahoo.com writes:


> I'm sorry to say this but this is just crap! How dare you build people up just to tear them down!I'm sorry if I'm over stepping me bounds but really man this is junk plan and simple. I join NR to be apart of something great, not the sca! This group has no goals but to play,learn and have fun.I'm not saying thats bad but its not what made me want to be a Nova Roman.If you brush me and others off, that feel this strongly about the land idea than you pushing away the future of NR.Your telling me that every person out here thats talked and brought ideas to the group has done this in vain.
> You said "
> It is not just buying a couple of acres and putting up a nice
> building,
> and maybe a theme park and call it a country, and for people to go to,
> for
> vacation with the kids, dressed in a toga. "
>
> Ok get real man thats not what we're about,try reading all the postings left by people whom have given ideas about it.They want to make it work,and if you ask them they'll tell you just how far they will go.{like living there and building it with there bare hands,I'm looking to do just that}
>
> here I agree "The most important thing to do at this time is to consolidate
> Novaroma
> and build up the infrastructure of the citizenry and community" but how are we going to consolidate and build up the community???A few years ago I did sales you know getting people to help you sale things to comp.but for every 10 people I had 8 would leave in just one day.The others just one week,and none after that.It was not the things being sold but the person pushing the idea of how to sale it.
>
> Same here you must build the ones that just join and keep the ideas flowing to keep them here.Maybe if you would help some people around you that we would have more staying around.Just ask and see how many are active members and how many are gone.
>
> DREAMERS ARE THE FUTURE and if you take the dream away like you have said in your post then welcome to the SCA where we can seat around and talk about old rome and speak Latin "good great fine" but your NR is just a joke then.
>
> You said "We are only 1,500 cives, and when we become 10,000 cives, then,
> maybe,
> we could start thinking about the land project, and I want to emphasize
> the
> word MAYBE." Thank you for the maybe...Yes if we have more like 10,000 we could, I say work with what you have.IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE CART THEN BUILD IT.How many times are we willing to push others away by what we say but not the guts to try to bring them back.They most have join for some reason,and left for another.
>
> YOU WANT TAXES TRY PUTTING IT ON THE WEB SITE WHERE PEOPLE CAN FIND IT.I've still not heard form anyone about where to send in moneys and how much we are to give.
>
> you said"
> As to the dreaming, it is proper to do. But don't count on living
> that
> dream.Dreams don't happen from one day to the other, and this is not
> television either. This is the real world. I can see some people
> making
> faces already. Sorry amicos! No DisneyRoma for you until you learn
> your
> Latin first."
>
> WHAT A TROLL THING TO SAY! You speak of honor and values I say you have nether.If you have honor you'd not tell others how to live there lives.Yes to learn Latin is good but to tell someone that I say your a jerk.Not because you don't think the way I do but to pick on others just because they do have a dream or because they may not speak the way you might.
>
> I'm sorry if I may have made others mad thats not what I want to do but this post of his does nothing for NR'S greater good.
>
> G.PORTICUS BRUTIS

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Priesthood Oath for Gaius Modius Athanasius
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 07:53:46 -0400

PRIESTHOOD OATH

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Kling) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of the Religio Romana in Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the Roman Gods, the Religio Romana, and the Senate and People of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Kling) as a member of the Priesthood, swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion. I swear to serve the Roman Gods to the best of my ability in both public and private life, and to pursue the Roman virtues as an integral part of my Priesthood.

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Kling), swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Kling) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Flamen Pomonalis to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Flamen Pomonalis and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Made this day in Springfield, Ohio in the Province of Lacus Magni, October 19th., year 2002 of present era.

In the consulship of Marcus Octavius Germanicus and Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:47:45 -0400

Salve,

It seems to me as I read the e-mails on the land question that the consciences has determined that it is a long term proposition that may be twenty years or more in the future. Ok I can agree to that but what steps should we be taking in these next twenty years to be ready for the day that we do have the money to buy the land and to build.

Should we not work to establish College scholarships for those Citizens or children of Citizens who might want to study Civil Engineering, Urban Planning, Architecture and other useful and need skills that can be called upon in the next twenty years( or so). Should we not have a design contest over this time period to choose what our first and Capital City will look like? Is the Capital city of Nova Roma going to be a reconstruction of ancient Rome or another Roman city with no modern aspects or is it going to be a modern Roman city with cars and other modern amenities like electricity and modern pluming? These are some of the questions that we need to be talking about ,if in twenty years we want to see some concrete progress on the physical manifestation of NEW ROME on Earth. Just a few thoughts to further the discussion.


Vale,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: G.Porticus Brutis
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 5:55 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample


Thank you Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix For a well put Posting.Yes I agree that it will take alot of money but this does get the wheels a turning.We could get a list of people to whom may want to move there and maintain the land,and work to build up the land.This could cut off a little of the cost"just a little". It's athought!

Brutis




"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> wrote:Avete P.C. Rufus,

I agree with you that we all should strive together. But to empanel a portion of the Senate when the following factors have not been met would be a waste of resources:

1. A sustained source of revenue that would be able to pay for and maintain land. (We are talking about maybe $300k a year, around that number.)

I came up with this number thinking of the costs of maintaining the land once purchased, and insuring it. This does not count the costs for construction and zoning which can run into the millions of dollars.

2. A substantial and active population (I am thinking around 100,000 if not more)

Even if we do not have people willing to relocate there permanently, we will need citizens to pay the tax to maintain the land. Of course we will probably gain funds through tourism, but that is a variable and should not be used as a means to budget. Look at what happened after 9/11, tourism and travel industries have suffered greatly.

3. Enough funds in our coffers to purchase land (we are talking at least $500k)

This includes the amount of money we would need to purchase the land. On top of that there will obviously be other fees, and this is likely to cost substantially more if the land is barren and then you will have zoning fees as well.

None of the figures above takes into consideration the cost to build upon the land. If we take that into consideration the price tag will go up astronomically. The cost of materials, labor and planning is going to be just immense.

Even if we met one of these goals I would be more likely to support the creation of a committee in the Senate to debate on the possibility of land purchase.

In the interim, I think the best course of action for anyone in NR is to contribute in developing the cultural and provincial aspects of Nova Roma. Be this in the individual and gens level or in the sodalitas level. There is allot of work that should be done within the state we currently are in...and we should develop that before we jump into a new realm of existence. Especially when that new realm will create new areas of conflict and stress.

Most Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Rogers
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:38 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample


Friend Sulla,

I agree with you on all these points, to be sure! We can (and with a
continued streak of good Senators, Consuls, and Censors) strive step-
by-step toward our common goal, a return of Rome on earth. Literally.

I think one of our strongest assets is our ability as Romans to work
together toward a common goal, even if we may disagree on HOW we get
there. Romans were know for the strong, determined, FOCUSED, method
in which they worked and played...I am sure that we here can pool our
combined intellect and come up with a series of long and short term
proposals/ideas/goals...and then get them done.

Maybe we can/should ask the Consuls/Senate to empanel a 7 person
commission to begin the process of selecting criteria, or something
of that nature.
P.C. Rufus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Avete G. Porticus,
>
> I respectfully must disagree with you on this issue. We are not
just a micronation, we are also a Not for Profit Corporation. We
should take adequate steps to protect ourselves.
>
> Unless land is going to be donated to Nova Roma (also a tax
deduction in the US). I have not been changed in my point of view
that land is a Long term goal (if lucky I will see it in my life
time).
>
> As I posted before, to build up Nova Roma's credibility both within
the organization and outside we should focus on short-term goals that
can be accomplished within a year. For example, reinstituting
coinage each year with the names of the Consuls. Secondly,
reinstituting the Eagle (and make it a more professional magazine
instead of a news letter). Develop the resources of our website so
that we would become the one-stop information source on ancient Rome
(this will take substantially longer, I understand).
> Even public access TV shows in various areas of the country (this is
> something I am looking into). Roman Days type festivities in all
parts of the world. Things like this help build the community.
Land, on the other hand has the potential of being a very devisive
issue. And, IMHO, we are
> just not fiscally ready.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 06:55:55 -0700 (PDT)

Hail Nova Roma
I belive your on the right track and anything to promote the land ideas will help keep it alive.Thank you for your wonderful ideas.
G.Porticus Brutis

Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn.com> wrote: Salve,

It seems to me as I read the e-mails on the land question that the consciences has determined that it is a long term proposition that may be twenty years or more in the future. Ok I can agree to that but what steps should we be taking in these next twenty years to be ready for the day that we do have the money to buy the land and to build.

Should we not work to establish College scholarships for those Citizens or children of Citizens who might want to study Civil Engineering, Urban Planning, Architecture and other useful and need skills that can be called upon in the next twenty years( or so). Should we not have a design contest over this time period to choose what our first and Capital City will look like? Is the Capital city of Nova Roma going to be a reconstruction of ancient Rome or another Roman city with no modern aspects or is it going to be a modern Roman city with cars and other modern amenities like electricity and modern pluming? These are some of the questions that we need to be talking about ,if in twenty years we want to see some concrete progress on the physical manifestation of NEW ROME on Earth. Just a few thoughts to further the discussion.


Vale,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: G.Porticus Brutis
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 5:55 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample


Thank you


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A Vision for Nova Roma
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 16:10:14 +0200

Salve Honorable Tiberius Galerius Paulinus!

"Rome wasn't built on one day." This is true, but we must keep the
flame burning! I suggest the folowing vision. Then we must build a
very real plan for how to achive this.

The possible Nova Roman cities or other places that we may build in
the future should look as Rome would and should have been looking
would the Res Publica have survived. I imagine modern constuctions
based on a Roman approach to what is positive to the enviroment and
the positive development of humanity.

I imagine a stabile and planned development of our plans for land for
Nova Roma, supported by some kind of "Roman House" or "Curia"
movement in as many cities as possible arround the world.

>Salve,
>
>It seems to me as I read the e-mails on the land question that the
>consciences has determined that it is a long term proposition that
>may be twenty years or more in the future. Ok I can agree to that
>but what steps should we be taking in these next twenty years to be
>ready for the day that we do have the money to buy the land and to
>build.
>
>Should we not work to establish College scholarships for those
>Citizens or children of Citizens who might want to study Civil
>Engineering, Urban Planning, Architecture and other useful and need
>skills that can be called upon in the next twenty years( or so).
>Should we not have a design contest over this time period to choose
>what our first and Capital City will look like? Is the Capital city
>of Nova Roma going to be a reconstruction of ancient Rome or another
>Roman city with no modern aspects or is it going to be a modern
>Roman city with cars and other modern amenities like electricity and
>modern pluming? These are some of the questions that we need to be
>talking about ,if in twenty years we want to see some concrete
>progress on the physical manifestation of NEW ROME on Earth. Just a
>few thoughts to further the discussion.
>
>
>Vale,
>
>Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: G.Porticus Brutis
>Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 5:55 AM
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
>
>
>Thank you Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix For a well put Posting.Yes I
>agree that it will take alot of money but this does get the wheels a
>turning.We could get a list of people to whom may want to move there
>and maintain the land,and work to build up the land.This could cut
>off a little of the cost"just a little". It's athought!
>
>Brutis
>
>
>
>
>"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> wrote:Avete P.C. Rufus,
>
>I agree with you that we all should strive together. But to empanel
>a portion of the Senate when the following factors have not been met
>would be a waste of resources:
>
>1. A sustained source of revenue that would be able to pay for and
>maintain land. (We are talking about maybe $300k a year, around
>that number.)
>
>I came up with this number thinking of the costs of maintaining the
>land once purchased, and insuring it. This does not count the costs
>for construction and zoning which can run into the millions of
>dollars.
>
>2. A substantial and active population (I am thinking around
>100,000 if not more)
>
>Even if we do not have people willing to relocate there permanently,
>we will need citizens to pay the tax to maintain the land. Of
>course we will probably gain funds through tourism, but that is a
>variable and should not be used as a means to budget. Look at what
>happened after 9/11, tourism and travel industries have suffered
>greatly.
>
>3. Enough funds in our coffers to purchase land (we are talking at
>least $500k)
>
>This includes the amount of money we would need to purchase the
>land. On top of that there will obviously be other fees, and this
>is likely to cost substantially more if the land is barren and then
>you will have zoning fees as well.
>
>None of the figures above takes into consideration the cost to build
>upon the land. If we take that into consideration the price tag
>will go up astronomically. The cost of materials, labor and
>planning is going to be just immense.
>
>Even if we met one of these goals I would be more likely to support
>the creation of a committee in the Senate to debate on the
>possibility of land purchase.
>
>In the interim, I think the best course of action for anyone in NR
>is to contribute in developing the cultural and provincial aspects
>of Nova Roma. Be this in the individual and gens level or in the
>sodalitas level. There is allot of work that should be done within
>the state we currently are in...and we should develop that before we
>jump into a new realm of existence. Especially when that new realm
>will create new areas of conflict and stress.
>
>Most Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: William Rogers
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:38 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
>
>
> Friend Sulla,
>
> I agree with you on all these points, to be sure! We can (and with a
> continued streak of good Senators, Consuls, and Censors) strive step-
> by-step toward our common goal, a return of Rome on earth. Literally.
>
> I think one of our strongest assets is our ability as Romans to work
> together toward a common goal, even if we may disagree on HOW we get
> there. Romans were know for the strong, determined, FOCUSED, method
> in which they worked and played...I am sure that we here can pool our
> combined intellect and come up with a series of long and short term
> proposals/ideas/goals...and then get them done.
>
> Maybe we can/should ask the Consuls/Senate to empanel a 7 person
> commission to begin the process of selecting criteria, or something
> of that nature.
> P.C. Rufus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Avete G. Porticus,
> >
> > I respectfully must disagree with you on this issue. We are not
> just a micronation, we are also a Not for Profit Corporation. We
> should take adequate steps to protect ourselves.
> >
> > Unless land is going to be donated to Nova Roma (also a tax
> deduction in the US). I have not been changed in my point of view
> that land is a Long term goal (if lucky I will see it in my life
> time).
> >
> > As I posted before, to build up Nova Roma's credibility both within
> the organization and outside we should focus on short-term goals that
> can be accomplished within a year. For example, reinstituting
> coinage each year with the names of the Consuls. Secondly,
> reinstituting the Eagle (and make it a more professional magazine
> instead of a news letter). Develop the resources of our website so
> that we would become the one-stop information source on ancient Rome
> (this will take substantially longer, I understand).
> > Even public access TV shows in various areas of the country (this is
> > something I am looking into). Roman Days type festivities in all
> parts of the world. Things like this help build the community.
> Land, on the other hand has the potential of being a very devisive
> issue. And, IMHO, we are
> > just not fiscally ready.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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>
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--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Armilustrium
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@starpower.net>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:52:09 -0400

The Armilustrium
This day (NP), is for special religious observance.
The Armilustrium is the day the army is lustrated, or purified. The army would be assembled and reviewed in the Circus Maximus, garlanded with flowers and the trumpets (tubae) would be played as part of the purification rites. This is one of the festival day and the temples would sacrifice, then prepare feasts from the animals sacrificed, and the public and poor were invited. Games, music, dancing, singing and wine-drinking would conclude the festivities.
As a military festival, this day is sacred to Mars.

19 October XIV KAL. NOV. NP Dies religiosus
ARMILUSTIUM

The beginning of the campaigning season in March had been marked by the dancing of the Salii through the streets (p. 85), the Equirria (p. 89), the Quinquatrus and the Tubilustrium (p. 92), so its end in October saw the ceremonies of the October horse and the Armilustrium when the army had to be purified from the dangerous infection that it may have incurred from contact with bloodshed and strangers. This was a festival in honour of Mars; his Salian priests probably once again danced and sang through the streets, during the sacrifices tubae were sounded, and the arma and ancillia were purified and then put away until the next year. It appears from Plutarch and Varro that the lustratio was performed on the Aventine 'ad Circum Maximum' in an open space called Armilustrium (it lay south of the church of S. Sabina), the Aventine possibly being the last point in the procession of the Salii. note 261
An entry in the Praenestine calendar seems to apply to 20 October, but it could be a note to the previous day's Armilustrium. It runs '[...] sanguinem gustare antea frequenter solebant' (they frequently used blood to taste blood before'). This presumably refers to the tasting of blood from the sacrifice, a practice which had apparently ceased by the time of Augustus when the calendar was composed.

>From 'Festivals and Ceremonies of the Roman Republic' by HH Scullard

Mars nos protegas

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Flamen Martalis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land tax stuff...
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:46:11 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Luci Portice,

> I am wondering when the tax is required to be sent and if it's possible
> to send it via check?

The due date is the end of February. You can mail a check to our P.O. Box
(the address of which is on the main page) any time prior to that; but it
would be better to wait until after January 1st, so that next year's
Quaestores will be in office and be prepared to receive it.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: VICTORIAE THEATRE: A Viperous Queen
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 12:23:21 -0000

I thourally enjoyed the poem...and the film! WELL DONE! Hail Omnibus!

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.
>
> In the 3th day of our wonderful Ludi Victoriae organized bu the
Cohors
> Aedilis Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, you can sit down in the virtual
Nova
> Roman Theatre and look the first multimedial event of this long and
exciting
> end of October.
>
> To celebrate a famous and very interesting history of the Ancient
Rome we
> have developed the poem winner of the Ludi Romani Cultural Award: "A
> VIPEROUS QUEEN" by Illustrus Quintus Cassius Clavus.
> I'ts a sad history about a Queen a beautiful as ambitious staying
and loving
> between two great roman men. Like a viper she tempted their and by
a viper
> she dead ...
>
> To see the movie visit
> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/vqueen.htm
>
> [You need Macromedia Flash Player downloading free at
www.macromedia.com]
>
> The text of the poem is the following:
>
> - VIPEROUS QUEEN -
> by Quintus Cassius Clavus (Rich Malley)
> Provincia Nova Britania - richmal@a...
>
> O, Viperous Queen,
> Poisoning the flesh,
> Corrupting the mind.
>
> Lady of the Nile,
> Eyes burning of lust,
> Ensnare the heart of Caeser.
>
> Temptress of power,
> Playing politics of fire,
> A fire that is Rome.
>
> Caeser lies dead,
> Your world is destroyed,
> Dare you yet poison another?
>
> Take another in hand,
> Working your poison
> Your foul corruption.
>
> By sea or land, Antony?
> A question of fate.
> She whispers, by sea so to escape.
>
> Destruction draws nigh
> O Viperous Queen
> How fitting a fate
>
>
> Valete bene
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar
> -------------------------------------------
> Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
> Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
> Scriba Curatoris Araneum
> -------------------------------------------
> Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
> Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
> Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
> Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
> Yahoo Messanger: fapulus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: To all members in the U. S. state of Georgia...or those close...
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 12:39:33 -0000

Great idea! I am on my way to sign up right now! This is what can
happen when we Romans get focused...we see the ROman step up and take
the lead!

Publius

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., StarVVreck@a... wrote:
> Salvete Georgians,
>
> There is a provincial yahoogroup for America Austrorientalis, which
includes
> the macronational state of Georgia.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Austrorientalis/ I just switched
from "No
> Emails" to "Individual Emails" today.
>
> A get together of Georgia's Nova Roma citizens would be a great
idea but
> while Nova Romans meeting in Georgia's Rome might be ironic, Rome
is a bit
> out of the way. Possibly Stone Mountain Park, Lake Lanier, or the
National
> Appalachian Park region near Dahlonega would be more convenient and
> accommodating for a Georgia Nova Roma gathering.
>
> I propose an open dialogue to begin a regional gathering in Georgia
on the
> Austrorientalis yahoo group. If enough people become involved we
might even
> have to rent some space and hire caterers or some sort of vendors.
However
> most likely everyone will just have to pitch in for some Fried
Chicken and
> Coca-Cola. I'll pledge to bring 2 cases of Coke and the coolers (I
have 2 of
> the ones so big you can't carry them while full). Anyway, everyone
in
> Georgia sign up for the Yahoo Group and after the final plans are
made the
> official announcement for the gathering can be made on the main
list with at
> least a couple of weeks warning. A big Nova Roma meeting in
Georgia IS
> possible!
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Austrorientalis/
>
> Valete,
>
> Iulius Titinius Antonius
>
>
> In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:22:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bsmith3121@m... writes:
>
>
> > It seems like we are getting an increasing number of cives in
Georgia.
> > Perhaps we should all gather in the spring in Rome, Georgia. That
would be
> > cool - Roman days in Rome. I hope that you hear back from the
censors soon.
> > What roman name will you take? We could probably go for a few
more Titinia.
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: To all members in the U. S. state of Georgia...or those close...
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 12:54:08 -0000

Here's what I posted on the Austorientalis site:

Salvete Georgians,

I too recommend we try to go to Stone Mountain or possibly the
National Appalachian Park region near Dahlonega would be more
convenient and accommodating for a Georgia Nova Roma gathering.

We could make this a quarterly meeting, planning a December meeting
in Rome for the holiday dinner at a restaurant. We could utilze the
november month to plan for December and maybe a feb or march get
together.

We could make this meeting social, or add some politics for our
providence too, if we so choose. We have a grand opportunity here,
let's grab it and roll on! I say we stop looking back, and let's run
forward!

I shall hereby commit to bringing a cooler also, and I shall bring a
pecan pie and a key lime pie to the gathering, as well as three
steaks! Who's up next?

Who shold we invite...I know of at least one Pater in Ga...

Ave, Friends!


I hope to see all of us in the South east/deep south join us!

Publius
=========================

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., StarVVreck@a... wrote:
> Salvete Georgians,
>
> There is a provincial yahoogroup for America Austrorientalis, which
includes
> the macronational state of Georgia.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Austrorientalis/ I just switched
from "No
> Emails" to "Individual Emails" today.
>
> A get together of Georgia's Nova Roma citizens would be a great
idea but
> while Nova Romans meeting in Georgia's Rome might be ironic, Rome
is a bit
> out of the way. Possibly Stone Mountain Park, Lake Lanier, or the
National
> Appalachian Park region near Dahlonega would be more convenient and
> accommodating for a Georgia Nova Roma gathering.
>
> I propose an open dialogue to begin a regional gathering in Georgia
on the
> Austrorientalis yahoo group. If enough people become involved we
might even
> have to rent some space and hire caterers or some sort of vendors.
However
> most likely everyone will just have to pitch in for some Fried
Chicken and
> Coca-Cola. I'll pledge to bring 2 cases of Coke and the coolers (I
have 2 of
> the ones so big you can't carry them while full). Anyway, everyone
in
> Georgia sign up for the Yahoo Group and after the final plans are
made the
> official announcement for the gathering can be made on the main
list with at
> least a couple of weeks warning. A big Nova Roma meeting in
Georgia IS
> possible!
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Austrorientalis/
>
> Valete,
>
> Iulius Titinius Antonius
>
>
> In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:22:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bsmith3121@m... writes:
>
>
> > It seems like we are getting an increasing number of cives in
Georgia.
> > Perhaps we should all gather in the spring in Rome, Georgia. That
would be
> > cool - Roman days in Rome. I hope that you hear back from the
censors soon.
> > What roman name will you take? We could probably go for a few
more Titinia.
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample = An Idea here on where to start...
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 13:13:56 -0000

Ave!

Obviously, we have some STRONG feelings about the land and taxes
issue. Let us not go far from our short/long term goal: The
REALIZATION of a home.

Let me be clear, this will NOT be an overnight thing, we all know
that!

One way we have to hopefully realize our goal will be from the
reception of gifts, financial, land, whatever. I wold like to take
this opportunity to suggest we file for a not for profit tax
exemption status from somewhere. Once we do that, someone could
donate land to us, and get a tax writeoff...and if we can become tax
exempt, that would allow us to reduce or eliminate the property tax.

While this is most definately not the end of the process, we MUST
begin to take some steps...even if they are baby steps. Let us not
fight amongst ourselves...there are QUITE ENOUGH BARBARIANS out there
for us to fight with!

If you sincerely believe that writing and/or speaking latin is that
important, I recommend putting your money where your mouth is. I say
stop quibbling, and begin to develop a lating training system that we
can get here on the internet, set up a website we can turn in
assignemtns or where we can mail them in. Select a textbook I can
purchase, or make individual lessons available from the net. Yes, I
know, this SHALL take time...but once again, FOCUS! A good Roman can
FOCUS AND MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Just in what I have read in my short time here has shown to me we
have absolutely BRILLIANT minds here! We have a wonderful woman who
has done TONS of translation work! We CAN make this happen...JUST
STOP WHIMPERING, and START! SO WHAT if we have to go back later
and "tweak" the initial work? WHO CARES?! It's not who gets the
glory, but that we ALL strive to what is best for our COMMON GOAL!

Tell me how I can help...I'll gladly devote 5 hours a week to begin
the initial work...I haven't done any website work in over 4 years,
but I can surelt buy a book oh HTML and begin step by step if I have
the text and pictures available!

I say we begin to put our minds and bodies where our mouths are!

I step up, and state clearly, Consuls, Censors, Praetors, Paters,
Flaimen, how may I assist you?

Feel free to contact me:

William Rogers
3309 Calibre Creek Parkway
Roswell, GA 30076
Work: (tues - Sat 8am to 5:30pm) 404-442-8811
Fax: 404-364-0922
Cell: 770-862-2091
Home: 770-993-5314


Who else will take up the call? HHHHUUUUMMMMM? WHO!?

Publius

======================================


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@y...> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry to say this but this is just crap! How dare you build
people up just to tear them down!I'm sorry if I'm over stepping me
bounds but really man this is junk plan and simple. I join NR to be
apart of something great, not the sca! This group has no goals but to
play,learn and have fun.I'm not saying thats bad but its not what
made me want to be a Nova Roman.If you brush me and others off, that
feel this strongly about the land idea than you pushing away the
future of NR.Your telling me that every person out here thats talked
and brought ideas to the group has done this in vain.
> You said "
> It is not just buying a couple of acres and putting up a nice
> building,
> and maybe a theme park and call it a country, and for people to go
to,
> for
> vacation with the kids, dressed in a toga. "
>
> Ok get real man thats not what we're about,try reading all the
postings left by people whom have given ideas about it.They want to
make it work,and if you ask them they'll tell you just how far they
will go.{like living there and building it with there bare hands,I'm
looking to do just that}
>
> here I agree "The most important thing to do at this time is to
consolidate
> Novaroma
> and build up the infrastructure of the citizenry and
community" but how are we going to consolidate and build up
the community???A few years ago I did sales you know getting people
to help you sale things to comp.but for every 10 people I had 8 would
leave in just one day.The others just one week,and none after that.It
was not the things being sold but the person pushing the idea of how
to sale it.
>
> Same here you must build the ones that just join and keep the ideas
flowing to keep them here.Maybe if you would help some people around
you that we would have more staying around.Just ask and see how many
are active members and how many are gone.
>
> DREAMERS ARE THE FUTURE and if you take the dream away like you
have said in your post then welcome to the SCA where we can seat
around and talk about old rome and speak Latin "good great fine" but
your NR is just a joke then.
>
> You said "We are only 1,500 cives, and when we become 10,000 cives,
then,
> maybe,
> we could start thinking about the land project, and I want to
emphasize
> the
> word MAYBE." Thank you for the maybe...Yes if we have more like
10,000 we could, I say work with what you have.IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE
CART THEN BUILD IT.How many times are we willing to push others away
by what we say but not the guts to try to bring them back.They most
have join for some reason,and left for another.
>
> YOU WANT TAXES TRY PUTTING IT ON THE WEB SITE WHERE PEOPLE CAN FIND
IT.I've still not heard form anyone about where to send in moneys and
how much we are to give.
>
> you said"
> As to the dreaming, it is proper to do. But don't count on
living
> that
> dream.Dreams don't happen from one day to the other, and this is
not
> television either. This is the real world. I can see some people
> making
> faces already. Sorry amicos! No DisneyRoma for you until you
learn
> your
> Latin first."
>
> WHAT A TROLL THING TO SAY! You speak of honor and values I say you
have nether.If you have honor you'd not tell others how to live there
lives.Yes to learn Latin is good but to tell someone that I say your
a jerk.Not because you don't think the way I do but to pick on others
just because they do have a dream or because they may not speak the
way you might.
>
> I'm sorry if I may have made others mad thats not what I want to do
but this post of his does nothing for NR'S greater good.
>
> G.PORTICUS BRUTIS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gaius Galerius Peregrinator <gaiusgalerius@h...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> I didn't expect so many to take this land project so seriously, at
this
> point in time, it being so premature, and it keeps coming back.
Consul
> Cornelius is one of the few people who spoke elequently and
realistically
> about this issue.
>
> It is not just buying a couple of acres and putting up a nice
building,
> and maybe a theme park and call it a country, and for people to go
to, for
> vacation with the kids, dressed in a toga. I even doubt it if most
of the
> citizenry would want that.
>
> The most important thing to do at this time is to consolidate
Novaroma
> and build up the infrastructure of the citizenry and community,
learn about
> history and the people who made that history, educate ourselves
about being
> Romans, and all those values of family, of honor, of comitas, of
pietas..and
> the rest. And as the good Consul pointed out; concentrate on the
short term
> goals: the magazine, the coins, the tax, become an information
source..and
> the rest. You realize that only 14% of the citizenry paid tax. AND
MOST
> IMPORTANT OF ALL IS TO LEARN LATIN. YOU CANNOT CALL YOURSELF A
ROMAN IF YOU
> DO NOT SPEAK A MODICUM OF LATIN, AT LEAST.
>
> We are only 1,500 cives, and when we become 10,000 cives, then,
maybe,
> we could start thinking about the land project, and I want to
emphasize the
> word MAYBE.
>
> One thing at a time. I can't even use the analogy of the horse and
a
> cart, because we have neither the horse nor the cart, not yet.
>
> As to the dreaming, it is proper to do. But don't count on living
that
> dream. The realization of the dreams is not for us. Just like we
live and
> reap the dreams and works of those who came before us. They did the
> dreaming and the work and we reap it. Remember the Roman saying of
planting
> the tree, but not living long enough to eat the fruit.
>
> Dreams don't happen from one day to the other, and this is not
> television either. This is the real world. I can see some people
making
> faces already. Sorry amicos! No DisneyRoma for you until you learn
your
> Latin first.
>
> and valete
>
> Galerius Peregrinator.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "L. Cornelius Sulla"
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@y...
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tax rate - an axample
> >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:01:25 -0700
> >
> >Avete G. Porticus,
> >
> >I respectfully must disagree with you on this issue. We are not
just a
> >micronation, we are also a Not for Profit Corporation. We should
take
> >adequate steps to protect ourselves.
> >
> >Unless land is going to be donated to Nova Roma (also a tax
deduction in
> >the
> >US). I have not been changed in my point of view that land is a
Long term
> >goal (if lucky I will see it in my life time).
> >
> >As I posted before, to build up Nova Roma's credibility both
within the
> >organization and outside we should focus on short-term goals that
can be
> >accomplished within a year. For example, reinstituting coinage
each year
> >with the names of the Consuls. Secondly, reinstituting the Eagle
(and make
> >it a more professional magazine instead of a news letter). Develop
the
> >resources of our website so that we would become the one-stop
information
> >source on ancient Rome (this will take substantially longer, I
understand).
> >Even public access TV shows in various areas of the country (this
is
> >something I am looking into). Roman Days type festivities in all
parts of
> >the world. Things like this help build the community. Land, on the
other
> >hand has the potential of being a very devisive issue. And, IMHO,
we are
> >just not fiscally ready.
> >
> >Respectfully,
> >
> >Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 13:18:49 -0000

Friend Brutus,

I blush at your kind words...I do not deserve them. I am like a
legionary, just point me, tell me the goal, and I will give my last
breath for Rome to make it happen.

I believe we already have the hundred! We just need to wake them up,
and go for it! I just wrote on this a second ago, and I will not do
so again (I'm sure it would bore people too much!)

With the brilliant minds we ALREADY have, I'm sure we can begin the
process.

P.C. Rufus (Hopefully)
=======================

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@y...> wrote:
>
> May the Gods or God Bless you William Rogers this is the kind of
people of whom I speak of.The one that are in to making NR great.
Just 100 more and think of what we could do.
> G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
>
>
> William Rogers <wlr107@y...> wrote:Friend Sulla,
>
> I agree with you on all these points, to be sure! We can (and with
a
> continued streak of good Senators, Consuls, and Censors) strive
step-
> by-step toward our common goal, a return of Rome on earth.
Literally.
>
> I think one of our strongest assets is our ability as Romans to
work
> together toward a common goal, even if we may disagree on HOW we
get
> there. Romans were know for the strong, determined, FOCUSED, method
> in which they worked and played...I am sure that we here can pool
our
> combined intellect and come up with a series of long and short term
> proposals/ideas/goals...and then get them done.
>
> Maybe we can/should ask the Consuls/Senate to empanel a 7 person
> commission to begin the process of selecting criteria, or something
> of that nature.
> P.C. Rufus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Avete G. Porticus,
> >
> > I respectfully must disagree with you on this issue. We are not
> just a micronation, we are also a Not for Profit Corporation. We
> should take adequate steps to protect ourselves.
> >
> > Unless land is going to be donated to Nova Roma (also a tax
> deduction in the US). I have not been changed in my point of view
> that land is a Long term goal (if lucky I will see it in my life
> time).
> >
> > As I posted before, to build up Nova Roma's credibility both
within
> the organization and outside we should focus on short-term goals
that
> can be accomplished within a year. For example, reinstituting
> coinage each year with the names of the Consuls. Secondly,
> reinstituting the Eagle (and make it a more professional magazine
> instead of a news letter). Develop the resources of our website so
> that we would become the one-stop information source on ancient
Rome
> (this will take substantially longer, I understand).
> > Even public access TV shows in various areas of the country (this
is
> > something I am looking into). Roman Days type festivities in all
> parts of the world. Things like this help build the community.
> Land, on the other hand has the potential of being a very devisive
> issue. And, IMHO, we are
> > just not fiscally ready.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 13:22:40 -0000

Gaius Modius Athanasius,

PLEASE tell me you are in Georgia or close by! :-) You are right!
Completely right! The leaders have taken the brave first steps; the
created Nova Roma. Now we must take our steps and make it grow!

P. C. Rufus (Hopefully)

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Very well said Galerius Peregrinator.
>
> I think it is important that Nova Roma become MORE of a face to
face community than a virtual community. Don't get me wrong. I
think the NR website is one of the best updated sites of any
organization that I belong to, and the e-mail lists are always
interesting. But unless we are interacting with other New Romans in
a face to face environment we have to ask ourselves, "what are we
doing?"
>
> I personally do not consider Nova Roma a role playing game. I know
of people who are in the SCA who take on personas of people, but I am
NOT Gaius Modius Athanasius an "ancient" Roman. I am Gaius Modius
Athanasius a modern man living in 2002 who is a NEW Roman. I am not
a persona, Modius is who I AM. Nor do I want G. Modius Athanasius to
become just another "on-line" nickname. If I do not hear people
saying, "hey Modius, do you want to go and get a cup of coffee," or
whatever, then it is simply an on-line nickname.
>
> Nova Roma existing as an on-line micronation/organization or
whatever needs to be the exception. Every effort needs to be placed
in face to face communication between citizens in their respective
provinces. I know this is being done, but the fire needs a few more
logs on it.
>
> From what I can tell, Nova Roma was built from the top down. More
work needs to be done on the lower level. The Provincial, and lower
level. We have Provinces, what about local working communities?
Chapters?
>
> I am very happy to be a part of Nova Roma. I have the dream...
>
> In Fellowship;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
>
> In a message dated Sat, 19 Oct 2002 06:27:58 +0000,
gaiusgalerius@h... writes:
>
>
> > Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > I didn't expect so many to take this land project so
seriously, at this
> > point in time, it being so premature, and it keeps coming
back. Consul
> > Cornelius is one of the few people who spoke elequently and
realistically
> > about this issue.
> >
> > It is not just buying a couple of acres and putting up a nice
building,
> > and maybe a theme park and call it a country, and for people to
go to, for
> > vacation with the kids, dressed in a toga. I even doubt it if
most of the
> > citizenry would want that.
> >
> > The most important thing to do at this time is to consolidate
Novaroma
> > and build up the infrastructure of the citizenry and community,
learn about
> > history and the people who made that history, educate ourselves
about being
> > Romans, and all those values of family, of honor, of comitas, of
pietas..and
> > the rest. And as the good Consul pointed out; concentrate on the
short term
> > goals: the magazine, the coins, the tax, become an information
source..and
> > the rest. You realize that only 14% of the citizenry paid tax.
AND MOST
> > IMPORTANT OF ALL IS TO LEARN LATIN. YOU CANNOT CALL YOURSELF A
ROMAN IF YOU
> > DO NOT SPEAK A MODICUM OF LATIN, AT LEAST.
> >
> > We are only 1,500 cives, and when we become 10,000 cives,
then, maybe,
> > we could start thinking about the land project, and I want to
emphasize the
> > word MAYBE.
> >
> > One thing at a time. I can't even use the analogy of the
horse and a
> > cart, because we have neither the horse nor the cart, not yet.
> >
> > As to the dreaming, it is proper to do. But don't count on
living that
> > dream. The realization of the dreams is not for us. Just like
we live and
> > reap the dreams and works of those who came before us. They did
the
> > dreaming and the work and we reap it. Remember the Roman saying
of planting
> > the tree, but not living long enough to eat the fruit.
> >
> > Dreams don't happen from one day to the other, and this is not
> > television either. This is the real world. I can see some
people making
> > faces already. Sorry amicos! No DisneyRoma for you until you
learn your
> > Latin first.
> >
> > and valete
> >
> > Galerius Peregrinator.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Land and Taxes
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 17:44:51 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

It would seem we are as close as we have ever been to a tax system
with some flexibility, which will appear fair to all provincia.

Not an easy feat! And with this, I am confident that we shall get
more individuals contributing, taxwise to Nova Roma. A few 'snags'
have been ironed out by this latest proposal, which were presented by
a few in the European community, revealing that the last language
with respect to the GNP's etc. were not as fair for everyone as we
thought. Not even entirely fair for the folks on this side of the
Atlantic.

I stress the European community in this, not because there are not
other citizens in NR:), but because they have been more subject to
receiving the 'short end of the rope' by paying more than what is
realistic within their respective macronational economies.

I fully agree that Rome wasn't build in a day! And the more we try
to 'hurry up' the more snags we encounter.

This is long term, with some short term activity, but what I would
like to see transpire is the following:

Let's give this new proposal of Marcus Octavius Consul a trial run of
next year, and iron out any problems which may occur. We can then
judge truly how well received it is, compared to last year's tax
schedule. Do we have more people paying taxes...do we have people
paying taxes who did not last year?

If this system works, perhaps the Senate and Consuls of next year
could discuss a small amount of the taxation monies devoted to a land
fund for future. We would have to discuss if this will bite into the
50% currently allotted to the provincia, or if this would be national
in nature. Either way, I think we should give what appears to be a
well-presented system a trial next year.

Also, projects within the Sodalitas Egressus and other Sodalitatas.
There are money-making projects which could be devoted to land
finance pursuits. I am not a cyber-wizard by any means, but I have
made some suggestions with respect to a calendar we could print up,
and market through a Sodalitas. Everyone can use a pocket calender,
and if we set up our own marketing, this could prove to be a steady
income we could devote toward land. Other suggestions have been
made. I know we already have some excellent things in the Macellum,
from which 10% proceeds go to the treasury.

I am investigated the cost.

How a sodalitates would fit into the macellum, as opposed to an
individual, would be something to discuss between the Censors,
Aediles and officers of the sodalitas, and presented to the Conscript
fathers via Consultum.

I applaud the many people who have stated that they would be more
than willing to donate money to the land fund. You are very generous
and virtuous indeed.

The problem today, is that the markets our down, and alot of people
are not in a financial position to donate extra monies at this point,
of appreciably large amounts. I know, everytime I receive a
statement of my financial portfolio this year, I cringe...the markets
are way down, everywhere.

At any rate, a very long-winded set of long term and short term
suggestions for accruing money for a project many would like to see
materialize, without smarting anyone's pocket book, or without moving
too quickly on something which must be, IMHO, implemented carefully,
to our maximal benefit.

Bene valete,
P. Cornelia
Praetor

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 15:15:06 -0400

In my opinion the first steps that should be taken is to ensure that Nova Roma becomes a face to face entity (primarily), and a virtual community (secondary). Once this is done, the land project will be easier to figure out. Right now we need to focus on getting people off of their computers and meeting other Nova Romans face to face.

An example. Lacus Magni had an event were everyone in the Province were invited and encouraged to attend. Only about 6 showed up. And Ohio has 53 Nova Romans. We need to support our local interests.

Until we become a tight and close group of people I do not see buying joint land a reality. We are not yet a "People," we are group of individuals.

In Fellowship;

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 10/19/2002 8:47:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, spqr753@msn.com writes:

>
>
> Salve,
>
> It seems to me as I read the e-mails on the land question that the consciences has determined that it is a long term proposition that may be twenty years or more in the future. Ok I can agree to that but what steps should we be taking in these next twenty years to be ready for the day that we do have the money to buy the land and to build.
>
> Should we not work to establish College scholarships for those Citizens or children of Citizens who might want to study Civil Engineering, Urban Planning, Architecture and other useful and need skills that can be called upon in the next twenty years( or so). Should we not have a design contest over this time period to choose what our first and Capital City will look like? Is the Capital city of Nova Roma going to be a reconstruction of ancient Rome or another Roman city with no modern aspects or is it going to be a modern Roman city with cars and other modern amenities like electricity and modern pluming? These are some of the questions that we need to be talking about ,if in twenty years we want to see some concrete progress on the physical manifestation of NEW ROME on Earth. Just a few thoughts to further the discussion.
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 15:25:36 -0400

P.C. Rufus;

Actually I live in Ohio. But I have been to Georgia, and used to live in Alabama about 10 years ago.

I think localizing Nova Roma into local units, be they Chapters or whatever, will become essential to our survival.

We are living a Roman Diaspora. We need to do what every culture living in a diaspora does...and that is to organize locally.

Also, what about establishing fraternal societies, and local religious congregations. I cannot say it loud enough...local, local, local!

In Fellowship;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 10/19/2002 8:22:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, wlr107@yahoo.com writes:


> Gaius Modius Athanasius,
>
> PLEASE tell me you are in Georgia or close by! :-) You are right!
> Completely right! The leaders have taken the brave first steps; the
> created Nova Roma. Now we must take our steps and make it grow!
>
> P. C. Rufus (Hopefully)

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Contact (Sorry for this private mail to the main list)
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Oct 2002 01:06:39 +0200

Salve Salve Honorable Gaius Modius Athanasius!

I have tried to reach You privately, but tat seems to fail. Do You
have any other e-mail address?
--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Oct 2002 18:31:19 -0500

hear hear







The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
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----- Original Message -----
From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tax rate - an axample


P.C. Rufus;

Actually I live in Ohio. But I have been to Georgia, and used to live in Alabama about 10 years ago.

I think localizing Nova Roma into local units, be they Chapters or whatever, will become essential to our survival.

We are living a Roman Diaspora. We need to do what every culture living in a diaspora does...and that is to organize locally.

Also, what about establishing fraternal societies, and local religious congregations. I cannot say it loud enough...local, local, local!

In Fellowship;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 10/19/2002 8:22:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, wlr107@yahoo.com writes:


> Gaius Modius Athanasius,
>
> PLEASE tell me you are in Georgia or close by! :-) You are right!
> Completely right! The leaders have taken the brave first steps; the
> created Nova Roma. Now we must take our steps and make it grow!
>
> P. C. Rufus (Hopefully)