Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: What about Nova Roma "colleges"?
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:27:18 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Avete Omnes,
>
> The Academy is not a College. None of the people who teach there
are professionals or academics. Maybe one day in the future that can
be included. But at the current juncture the better place to learn
about the ancients is from an accredited college.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Avete omnes,

Please let me express my firm opinion here that the right honourable
Lucius Cornelius Sulla is quite mistaken in his views.

Just as the original Academia was a public garden where Plato taught
to those inclined to listen to his instructions, our Academia is also
a place open to those who want to learn more about the ancients from
those inside our community who have acquired a certain degree of
knowledge about Roma antiqua and Roma nova and who are willing to
share it.

It seems strange to me that a sitting Consul would dismiss so easily
the hard work of many accomplished citizens who have begun to create
something which obviously fills a desire of both new and old
citizens. Should we really be barred from learning from each other in
an organized and well researched way (this is what we do in the
Academia)?

Why should we throw away the one advantage we have over "accredited
colleges", our society that brings together Rome loving individuals?
No one says that you should not go to macronational colleges in order
to learn about "the ancients", quite the opposite! But why should we
not do it here as well? And why should we not do it now? Just go and
see for yourself: http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/

Avete et Valete

Marcus Marcius Rex
Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Magister et Doctor iuris
Vertragsassistent a.D. University of Vienna/Austria (founded 1365 AD)

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: THE START-LINE OF THE FINAL OF THE LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSES!
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:56:14 -0000

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

WOW, after the champion Essedum, other two chariots from Provincia
Italia .... I'm proud!!! :-)
[we italic have the speedy in the blood ...]

RUSSATA RA RA RA ....
RUSSATA RA RA RA ....
RUSSATA RA RA RA ....
RUSSATA RA RA RA ....

GO RUSSATA GO!!!

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> This is the start-line of the Final of the Ludi Victoria Circenses:
>
> Let everyone support their Factio!
>
> FINAL
>
> Italica
> driver: Equus Erectus
> by Franciscus Apulus Caesar
> Race tactic: (6)
>
> Hyacintha Magna
> driver: Theodorus Citius
> by Tiberius Arminius Hyacinthus
> Race tactic: (5)
>
> Crux Australis
> driver: Victor Hispanicus
> by Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Race tactic: (6)
>
> Fvror Tevtonicvs
> driver: Scissor Obscurvs Northmannvs
> by Alexander Solaris Draco
> Race tactic: (2)
> --
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
> Propraetor Thules
> AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
> Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
> "Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
> ************************************************
> The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
> ************************************************
> The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
> http://thule.novaroma.org/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE FINAL OF THE LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSES
From:	"Alejandro Carneiro" <piteas@inicia.es>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:16:58 -0000

It is the great day of the Ludi Victoria!!!
The Circus is replete of public and the red color is the most
abundant. Though the blue, for the first time, shows its presence in
the steps, where several hundreds of blue fans wave placards and
flags with the name "Crus Australis" in big letters. Some white fans
have joined them to encourage to the blue chariot in its crusade
against the Red Armada, but we do not see any green fan, a group so
numerously in before ludi and now missed each one in his/her home.
It´s a damned day for them. The first time that no green chariots
come to the final.
Because of it, the red fans are happy, it is the time of the
victorious revenge for them. Italica, Hyacintha Magna and the
terrible Furor Teutonicus are ready on the track. All their fans
shout of joy on the steps asking that they destroy to the blue
chariot. It is curious to see that Scissor, driver of the terrible
Furor Teutonicus, is insulted even for his own factio. His hard
character of bastard son of roman general and his continuous brawls
with the whole world have not created a good social image. But he
laughs on his chariot and comments that the sin is of the society,
which hates him, a nice and sensitive person (if he isn´t drunk or
drogged).

These are the great chariots for the final:

Italica
driver: Equus Erectus
by Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Race tactic: (6)
Factio: Russata

Hyacintha Magna
driver: Theodorus Citius
by Tiberius Arminius Hyacinthus
Race tactic: (5)
Factio: Russata

Crux Australis
driver: Victor Hispanicus
by Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Race tactic: (6)
Factio: Veneta

Fvror Tevtonicvs
driver: Scissor Obscurvs Northmannvs
by Alexander Solaris Draco
Race tactic: (2)
Factio: Russata


The aedilis curulis, good accommodated among the persian cushions of
his circus box, throws his scarf on the sand for beginning the race.

The chariots runs for the victory and the public ruge of passion!!!

The first two laps are not so violent as it was waited. Crus
Australis resists well the Hyacintha Magna's assaults, which is
trying to push it on the wall. Behind, Furor Teutonicus is apathetic
and Italic accelerates only in the straight lines, losing time in the
curves due to the fact that Furor Teutonicus does not leave it to
approach the spina.
In the third lap, it is clear that only two chariots were fighting
for the victory: Hyacintha Magna, obsessed in crush Crus Australis on
the wall, and the same Crus Australis. Because behind, Furor
Teutonicus goes slowly, stopping to Italica and receiving wild
critiques from the steps: Scissor, wakes up! Attack whom you have to
attack! Idiot barbarian! Open the eyes, bastard!
When he heard the word bastard, Scissor's face suffered a
transformation. His cheeks were injected of blood and his teeth
seemed to increase of size. He got the reins furiously and directed
his chariot against the sector of the steps where he had heard the
damn word. Italica had to turn sharply to avoid the collision but
overturned on the track while Scissor crashed his chariot on the wall
and jumped to the steps for beginning a waterfall of blows on dozens
of spectators of his own factio.
The blue fans roared as lions, celebrating the pathetic spectacle
that his red rivals were doing on the track and on the steps. They
thought that the Goddess Victoria was flying on their chariot and
that they would win the race with the unstoppable Crus Australis,
which had managed to escape of Haycintha Magna.
But any misfortune has a limit. When it seemed that the Red Armada
was going to lose another Ludi, an unexpected change arose on the
sand. Scissor, held by twenty pretorians, slipped and fell down with
them on the track, before Crus Australis. The blue chariot had to
stop and turn, losing a lot of time in the last curve. Besides, the
terrible Scissor bit to a horse when the chariot was going on to his
side. All that caused that Hyacintha Magna took advantage in the last
straight line and it winned the race for delirium of the red fans and
maximum desperation of the blue ones.

The reds win!!

The Russata win!!

THE CHAMPION IS HYACINTHA MAGNA!!!


Final Results

Winner: Hyacintha Magna
2nd: Crux Australis
3th: Fvror Tevtonicvs (Accident)
4th: Italica (Accident)


TIBERIUS ARMINIUS HYACINTHUS is the winning citizen of the Ludi
Victoria. All the members of the factio Russata congratulate him,
asking that the Republic should raise a statue in his honor. Red
globes raise on the novoroman sky while a choir of civil young women
and men sings hyms in praise of the virtues of the red chariots and
their fans.

Last news: Scissor has been imprisoned up to the next Ludi. His
companion of cell is a such Hannibal, but not the carthaginian. This
is another with a bit strange culinary taste. Good luck, Scissor.


Thanks and see you in the next Ludi!!!


Salix Galaicus
scriba cursus equorum aedilis curulis

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: What about Nova Roma "colleges"?
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:12:27 -0400

Very well said.

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 10/21/2002 8:27:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, RexMarcius writes:

>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > The Academy is not a College. None of the people who teach there
> are professionals or academics. Maybe one day in the future that can
> be included. But at the current juncture the better place to learn
> about the ancients is from an accredited college.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> Avete omnes,
>
> Please let me express my firm opinion here that the right honourable
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla is quite mistaken in his views.
>
> Just as the original Academia was a public garden where Plato taught
> to those inclined to listen to his instructions, our Academia is also
> a place open to those who want to learn more about the ancients from
> those inside our community who have acquired a certain degree of
> knowledge about Roma antiqua and Roma nova and who are willing to
> share it.
>
> It seems strange to me that a sitting Consul would dismiss so easily
> the hard work of many accomplished citizens who have begun to create
> something which obviously fills a desire of both new and old
> citizens. Should we really be barred from learning from each other in
> an organized and well researched way (this is what we do in the
> Academia)?
>
> Why should we throw away the one advantage we have over "accredited
> colleges", our society that brings together Rome loving individuals?
> No one says that you should not go to macronational colleges in order
> to learn about "the ancients", quite the opposite! But why should we
> not do it here as well? And why should we not do it now? Just go and
> see for yourself: http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
>
> Avete et Valete
>
> Marcus Marcius Rex
> Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> Magister et Doctor iuris
> Vertragsassistent a.D. University of Vienna/Austria (founded 1365 AD)

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 216
From:	Caius Curius Saturninus <c.curius@welho.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:01:47 +0300

>Message: 24
> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:51:02 -0700
> From: "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: What about Nova Roma "colleges"?
>
>Avete Omnes,
>
>The Academy is not a College. None of the people who teach there
>are professionals or academics. Maybe one day in the future that
>can be included. But at the current juncture the better place to
>learn about the ancients is from an accredited college.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Salvete,

Our Latin teacher, honoured Claudius Salix Davianus, lectures also at
the University of Barcelona about Latin and our leader for Roman Law
studies, honoured Marcus Marcius Rex has been responsible for the
same post at Vienna University. Our other teachers have experience on
teaching at lower level schools.

Valete,
--
Caius Curius Saturninus

Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Scriba Aedilis (Caeso Fabius Q.) Concursus

e-mail: c.curius@welho.com
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: To all members in the U. S. state of Georgia...or those close by
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:29:43 -0700 (PDT)

The Statue was presented to Rome Georgia by Rome Italy
in 1929 CE, after an Italian Company invested in a
silk mill in Rome Georgia. The Plaque on the base
reads "ROMAE NOVAE AUSPICIUM PROSPERITATIS ET GLORIAE
LUPAM CAPITOLINAM SIGNUM ROMA AETERNA CONSULE BENITO
MUSSOLINI MISIT ANNO MCMXXIX" which translates to
"This statue of the Capitoline Wolf, as a forecast of
prosperity and glory, has been sent from Ancient Rome
to New Rome, during the consulship of Benito
Mussolini, in the year 1929"

After Italy declared war on the United States in
December 1941, there were numerous threats to blow the
statue up. The "Consul" Benito Mussolini wasn't very
popular in Rome Georgia during the Second World War.
In 1942 the Statue was placed into storage until 1952
when it was returned to it's place in front of Rome's
Municipal Building.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Avete Cn. Iulius,
>
> You should email Propraetor Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> he resides in Georgia, and told me a similar story.
> Something about another gift being given by the
> Dictator Mussolini as well. I do not know if it is
> the same.
>
> He will have infomration for you.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Lancaster
> To: 'Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com'
> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 11:52 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: To all members in the U.
> S. state of Georgia...or those close by
>
>
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> I live in Los Angeles, Calif, and was born and
> raised out here. But my late
> mother was born and raised in Rome, Georgia (1924)
> and she told me, among
> many curious and possibly apocryphal tales, that
> around the turn of the
> century Rome, Italy sent statues of the Lupa with
> the feeding twins to all
> her sister cities in the U.S. The rural
> small-town government of Rome, GA
> apparently sent a nice thank-you note and promptly
> put the vaguely obscene
> statue in storage. Perhaps someone in this or
> another U.S. Rome could
> confirm or deny the statuary ...
>
> Valete!
>
> CN. IVLIVS STRABO
>
>
> >It seems like we are getting an increasing number
> of cives in Georgia.
> Perhaps we should all gather in the spring in
> Rome, Georgia. That would be
> cool - Roman days in Rome. I hope that you hear
> back from the censors soon.
> What roman name will you take? We could probably
> go for a few more Titinia.
> Caius Titinius Varus<
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Academy Thules
From:	"mjk" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:25:30 -0600

Salvete Omnes,

I think we are off to a good start with the academy here. Only problem is that if you run it as an accredited university now, with everyone at the PHD level then you'll have to start charging about 800.00 a course or similarily go and pay that amount our Canadian universities or even higher as in other countries. Given that having a tax over 12.00 was not palatable to quite a few, try and imagine what charging regular university rates would be like. Also universities require tests, mid terms and exams as well as good attendence. Some of us have our jobs and careers now and more often than not these courses are not compatible with our work hours. As I'm away a lot in the field I would get big fat F,s under those circumstances.

Let's just keep working along, participating in these free and greatly appreciated courses. Every bit of knowledge helps and one can learn from the interaction and guidance with one another. In time I am sure things will evolve more and more as Prof. Marcius suggests. As a representative said to me from the Academy a few weeks ago, relations are being organized with other academic institutions. The main thing is the Academy Thules would keep Nova Romans interested, well informed and continually evolving so they will not lose interest, fade away or not be able to defend NR from lack of knowledge when we are rediculed as some big joke or cult of frustrated Saturday Afternoon "Ancient" Commandos.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Scriba Praefecti

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:17:23 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites,

The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
intresting, However given our current finicial status
even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of land
to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
taxes on the land and would have to have insurance to
protect ourselves from liability if someone was
injured on the land. Until the treasury is far fuller
than it is today land will remain a dream. If you want
land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
treasury.

I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
point of actually buying the land. There are going to
be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
find that a large portion of the Taxes they have paid
in the past and will be paying in the future will go
for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No matter
what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
happy about it.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Taxes
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:32:53 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites,

I Was pleased to see that my idea for indexing taxes
by National income will be considered by the Senate,
but there are still problems with the plan.

As long as there was a flat rate for all nations there
might have been an excuse for a 12 US$ tax rate, but
if we are going to index taxes by national income,
then the rates should be higher. I Can't even take my
wife to a decent movie for $12.00, and I certainly
hope that most of our citizens value a year in Nova
Roma more than a couple of hours watching a movie. If
we want to progress beyond an internet group we will
need money, and it will take a painfully long time for
our funds to build up if we limit ourselves to 12
Dollars or less per citizen per year.

The Rate should at least provide the treasury with 25
US$ per year for each citizen in the USA, or a
comprable ammount after indexing for citizens residing
outside the USA.

In Antiquita when taxes were acessed it was based on a
citizens Census wealth. As your Census wealth rose
your taxes rose along with your Class. We would be
following the ancient example if we charged citizens
in the higher classes a higher tax to go along with
thier greater voting power in the Centuries.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:36:28 -0400

Salve,

Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when we talk about the land project. People live in cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO CITIZENS!!!!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
To: Nova Roma
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salvete Quirites,

The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
intresting, However given our current finicial status
even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of land
to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
taxes on the land and would have to have insurance to
protect ourselves from liability if someone was
injured on the land. Until the treasury is far fuller
than it is today land will remain a dream. If you want
land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
treasury.

I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
point of actually buying the land. There are going to
be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
find that a large portion of the Taxes they have paid
in the past and will be paying in the future will go
for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No matter
what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
happy about it.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Vesta
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:52:58 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites,

In 1148 AUC (396 CE) Vesta's hearth grew cold. 14
years later Roma was sacked by Barbarians. A Second
sack by Barbarians followed in 1207 AUC (455 CE) and a
third Barbarian army conqured the city in 1228 AUC
(476 CE) overthrowing the Emperor and placing the City
under the Rule of a Barbarian King.

Within 80 years of Veta's fire going out a city that
hadn't had a foriegn army in 800 years had three armys
conquerer it, the last ending self rule by the Romans.

We are now attempting to reestablish the civilization
that was snuffed out by the Barbarians in the 13th
Century AUC, but do we have any more hope of
prospering without the protection of Vesta than our
ancesters did 800 years ago?

If we want Nova Roma to prosper Vesta's hearth has to
be relit, and kept burning.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Academy Thules
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:01:36 -0700

Avete Omnes,

I agree we are off to a good start with the Academia, however, it is just a start. Eventually I would like to see a full blown Academic Library with accredited and published professors lecturing. This is something that has been available through a post that Propraetor C. Cassius Nerva pointed on a lecture by Audio series. I am also aware there are telecourses available taught by eminent professors who have been published as well. Even at the university I attended, California Baptist College implemented an Oxford type classics reading degree based on classic works in western civilization.

The problem I have with the Academia is that the vast majority of lectures are "men on the street." With little or possibly no educational background, and no publishing experience.

When Nova Roma expands and gets more academics join, I hope they will spread the knowledge they have gotten via either the Academia or some other venue in Nova Roma. If that means that eventually a fee will be necessary, I do not have a problem with that. Sometimes Quality costs. I understand that, and if I know I am getting a good product I would be willing to pay.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: mjk
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 8:25 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Academy Thules


Salvete Omnes,

I think we are off to a good start with the academy here. Only problem is that if you run it as an accredited university now, with everyone at the PHD level then you'll have to start charging about 800.00 a course or similarily go and pay that amount our Canadian universities or even higher as in other countries. Given that having a tax over 12.00 was not palatable to quite a few, try and imagine what charging regular university rates would be like. Also universities require tests, mid terms and exams as well as good attendence. Some of us have our jobs and careers now and more often than not these courses are not compatible with our work hours. As I'm away a lot in the field I would get big fat F,s under those circumstances.

Let's just keep working along, participating in these free and greatly appreciated courses. Every bit of knowledge helps and one can learn from the interaction and guidance with one another. In time I am sure things will evolve more and more as Prof. Marcius suggests. As a representative said to me from the Academy a few weeks ago, relations are being organized with other academic institutions. The main thing is the Academy Thules would keep Nova Romans interested, well informed and continually evolving so they will not lose interest, fade away or not be able to defend NR from lack of knowledge when we are rediculed as some big joke or cult of frustrated Saturday Afternoon "Ancient" Commandos.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Scriba Praefecti

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:16:01 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,
Build it with what?
Words won't aquire us a single square foot of land.
Wishes won't sastify the tax collecter from whatever
Macronation the land is located in. Insurance
companies won't accept our hopes as payment for a
policy. Building Supply Warehouses won't accept our
dreams as payment for materials.

There are few people in Nova Roma that want land worse
than I do, but simply wanting land, dreaming of land,
talking about land, wishing for land and dreaming
about land isn't enough. It will take cold hard cash
to make our dreams a reality, lots of it.

We have to aquire money before we can aquire land, and
that will mean higher taxes, it will mean fundraising,
it will mean making donations to a land fund.

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn.com> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND
> THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when
> we talk about the land project. People live in
> cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO
> CITIZENS!!!!!
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: L. Sicinius Drusus
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
> To: Nova Roma
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
> intresting, However given our current finicial
> status
> even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of
> land
> to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
> involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
> taxes on the land and would have to have insurance
> to
> protect ourselves from liability if someone was
> injured on the land. Until the treasury is far
> fuller
> than it is today land will remain a dream. If you
> want
> land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
> treasury.
>
> I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
> provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
> point of actually buying the land. There are going
> to
> be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
> find that a large portion of the Taxes they have
> paid
> in the past and will be paying in the future will go
> for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
> have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No
> matter
> what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
> ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
> happy about it.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis
> telum est."
> (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the
> killer's hand.)
> Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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> Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 216
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:15:27 -0700

Avete Omnes,

Claudius Salix Davianus is a professor of Latin? Where did he get his degree? If he is, then he is exactly what we need. Has he published any works.

As for M. Marcius I know he is an attorney, and heard rumors he is a law professor. I would like to know more about what he taught and am interested in seeing his curriculum vitae. And I would also like to know if he teaches in NR the basic subjects he specializes in.

Because experience in a lower level of teaching is not the only point I have tried to make. But one should teach in the realm of one's specialty.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Curius Saturninus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 216


>Message: 24
> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:51:02 -0700
> From: "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: What about Nova Roma "colleges"?
>
>Avete Omnes,
>
>The Academy is not a College. None of the people who teach there
>are professionals or academics. Maybe one day in the future that
>can be included. But at the current juncture the better place to
>learn about the ancients is from an accredited college.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Salvete,

Our Latin teacher, honoured Claudius Salix Davianus, lectures also at
the University of Barcelona about Latin and our leader for Roman Law
studies, honoured Marcus Marcius Rex has been responsible for the
same post at Vienna University. Our other teachers have experience on
teaching at lower level schools.

Valete,
--
Caius Curius Saturninus

Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Scriba Aedilis (Caeso Fabius Q.) Concursus

e-mail: c.curius@welho.com
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:16:53 -0700

Avete Tiberius Galerius,

I truly enjoy hearing the posts of new citizens. Its wonderful that we have such unjaded opinions in NR. But, I also think that many of our newer citizens should review some of the archieves to see just how hostile Nova Roma over other issues. The land debate has the potential to be extremely devisive.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land


Salve,

Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when we talk about the land project. People live in cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO CITIZENS!!!!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
To: Nova Roma
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salvete Quirites,

The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
intresting, However given our current finicial status
even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of land
to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
taxes on the land and would have to have insurance to
protect ourselves from liability if someone was
injured on the land. Until the treasury is far fuller
than it is today land will remain a dream. If you want
land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
treasury.

I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
point of actually buying the land. There are going to
be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
find that a large portion of the Taxes they have paid
in the past and will be paying in the future will go
for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No matter
what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
happy about it.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE CHAMPION OF THE FINAL OF THE LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSES!...
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:22:12 +0200

Salve Quirites!

THE CHAMPION IN THE LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSIS IS HYACINTHA MAGNA!!!

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE OWNER Honorable Tiberius Arminius Hyacinthus
AND HIS DRIVER Theodorus Citius!

FACTO RUSSATA HAS WON THE LAST OF THE ORDINARIE LUDI CIRCENSES!

WILL THE OTHER FACTIONES GET BACK AT THE RUSSATA DURING THE MAXIMI
LUDI CIRCENSES?

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:42:15 -0400

Salve,

I know that MONEY will be need to buy land on which we can build. I stated as much in the earlier discussions about the land project. We keep saying not now. But what is the game plan? What is the business plan ?That is all most of us are asking and making suggestions on what might be need to include in the plans if we want to build in twenty or so years. Will New Rome be a modern Roman city or a copy of the ancient City. What if anything will we be taking from the modern world with us? If tomorrow one of us won the Lottery or we found a rich patron (Does anybody know Bill Gates?, just a little joke) would we be any nearer to knowing what we wanted in a city?

Vale,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:16 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salve,
Build it with what?
Words won't aquire us a single square foot of land.
Wishes won't sastify the tax collecter from whatever
Macronation the land is located in. Insurance
companies won't accept our hopes as payment for a
policy. Building Supply Warehouses won't accept our
dreams as payment for materials.

There are few people in Nova Roma that want land worse
than I do, but simply wanting land, dreaming of land,
talking about land, wishing for land and dreaming
about land isn't enough. It will take cold hard cash
to make our dreams a reality, lots of it.

We have to aquire money before we can aquire land, and
that will mean higher taxes, it will mean fundraising,
it will mean making donations to a land fund.

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn.com> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND
> THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when
> we talk about the land project. People live in
> cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO
> CITIZENS!!!!!
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: L. Sicinius Drusus
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
> To: Nova Roma
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
> intresting, However given our current finicial
> status
> even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of
> land
> to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
> involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
> taxes on the land and would have to have insurance
> to
> protect ourselves from liability if someone was
> injured on the land. Until the treasury is far
> fuller
> than it is today land will remain a dream. If you
> want
> land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
> treasury.
>
> I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
> provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
> point of actually buying the land. There are going
> to
> be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
> find that a large portion of the Taxes they have
> paid
> in the past and will be paying in the future will go
> for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
> have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No
> matter
> what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
> ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
> happy about it.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis
> telum est."
> (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the
> killer's hand.)
> Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 216
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:00:49 -0000

>
> As for M. Marcius I know he is an attorney, and heard rumors he is
a law professor. I would like to know more about what he taught and
am interested in seeing his curriculum vitae. And I would also like
to know if he teaches in NR the basic subjects he specializes in.
>
> Because experience in a lower level of teaching is not the only
point I have tried to make. But one should teach in the realm of
one's specialty.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Ave et Vale:

Just for the record:

I taught Criminal Law at the University of Vienna for three years in
a position equivalent to Assistant Professor in the American system
(that means it was contract based and involved both teaching and
(pubblished) research). I was also during my time as faculty member a
member of the Historical Law society, which mainly dealt with Roman
and ancient German Law issues. I feel qualified enough to direct a
Roman law study including the review of lessons by praeceptores
before they are published. I left university mainly because I got an
offer outside I could not refuse.

Apart from my academic career at university and my military service I
have pursued a public service career, including: a court clerkship
involving criminal prosecutorial work; public policy work on matters
such as State subsidies and public research and development support;
board memberships; diplomatic postings overseas.

I am both a specialist in European Law (where I have won the biggest
Europe-wide public competition in Luxemburg) and International Law as
regards International Financial Institutions.

Including my academic degrees I can back all of that up with
documentation, if there ever were a real need to do it. I will not do
so publicly for the obvious reasons stated in the mainlist policy.
For any request by you, Luci Corneli Sulla I would, however, charge
an approximate market rate of 300 Dollars per hour for any
preparation work necessary. BTW what is your specialty?

Ave et vale

Marcus Marcius Rex

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 216
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:09:09 -0700

Avete M. Marcius et Omnes,

I thank you for your post.

I have posted my educational background about two weeks ago in response to a citizen talent pool thread. Please feel free to go back to the achieves and review it.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: rexmarciusnr
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 11:00 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 216



>
> As for M. Marcius I know he is an attorney, and heard rumors he is
a law professor. I would like to know more about what he taught and
am interested in seeing his curriculum vitae. And I would also like
to know if he teaches in NR the basic subjects he specializes in.
>
> Because experience in a lower level of teaching is not the only
point I have tried to make. But one should teach in the realm of
one's specialty.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Ave et Vale:

Just for the record:

I taught Criminal Law at the University of Vienna for three years in
a position equivalent to Assistant Professor in the American system
(that means it was contract based and involved both teaching and
(pubblished) research). I was also during my time as faculty member a
member of the Historical Law society, which mainly dealt with Roman
and ancient German Law issues. I feel qualified enough to direct a
Roman law study including the review of lessons by praeceptores
before they are published. I left university mainly because I got an
offer outside I could not refuse.

Apart from my academic career at university and my military service I
have pursued a public service career, including: a court clerkship
involving criminal prosecutorial work; public policy work on matters
such as State subsidies and public research and development support;
board memberships; diplomatic postings overseas.

I am both a specialist in European Law (where I have won the biggest
Europe-wide public competition in Luxemburg) and International Law as
regards International Financial Institutions.

Including my academic degrees I can back all of that up with
documentation, if there ever were a real need to do it. I will not do
so publicly for the obvious reasons stated in the mainlist policy.
For any request by you, Luci Corneli Sulla I would, however, charge
an approximate market rate of 300 Dollars per hour for any
preparation work necessary. BTW what is your specialty?

Ave et vale

Marcus Marcius Rex

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:16:15 -0700

Avete Omnes,
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land


Salve,

I know that MONEY will be need to buy land on which we can build. I stated as much in the earlier discussions about the land project. We keep saying not now. But what is the game plan?

Sulla: Right now there is no game plan. Because it is not feasible. We have a land fund that we can donate money into but I do not think it has anything beyond a couple of hundred dollars.

What is the business plan ?

Sulla: Ah a business plan. Well, we do not have one. It would not be very sensible to draft a plan when only 14% of our total population is willing to pay $12.00 American.

That is all most of us are asking and making suggestions on what might be need to include in the plans if we want to build in twenty or so years.

Sulla: I would be very surprised if we got land in 20 years. Nova Roma has already been in existence for 5 years and I just posted our current participation precentage in our first tax year. Our financial balance is currently: BALANCE: $2076.85 based on this website: http://www.novaroma.org/aerarium_saturni/qua01111101.html

Sulla: So if we were going to develop a business plan, something I can do (I have experience in drafting business plans and doing financial statements) any forecast that would be done would have to be done based on current figures and trends. (to be done according to GAAP [Generally Accepted Accounting Principles]). And while I think it would be useful to have it might discourage many of our citizens to see on paper how long it will be til we raise substantial funds necessary. With this type of finacial statement we can do a forecast and predict how long it will take us to get to a certain amount of money (say $500,000.)

Will New Rome be a modern Roman city or a copy of the ancient City.

Sulla: Thats way too soon to tell.

What if anything will we be taking from the modern world with us?

Sulla: Urban planning is something that will need to be discussed and debated once we get land.

If tomorrow one of us won the Lottery or we found a rich patron (Does anybody know Bill Gates?, just a little joke) would we be any nearer to knowing what we wanted in a city?

Sulla: I am certain that if we got someone like Bill Gates who was willing to donate funds for a Not for profit corporation (this would then raise a question about the microantional aspect for us) that this process would be substantially easier. But that likelyhood is slim and we should look to ourselves for our own funding.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Vale,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:16 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salve,
Build it with what?
Words won't aquire us a single square foot of land.
Wishes won't sastify the tax collecter from whatever
Macronation the land is located in. Insurance
companies won't accept our hopes as payment for a
policy. Building Supply Warehouses won't accept our
dreams as payment for materials.

There are few people in Nova Roma that want land worse
than I do, but simply wanting land, dreaming of land,
talking about land, wishing for land and dreaming
about land isn't enough. It will take cold hard cash
to make our dreams a reality, lots of it.

We have to aquire money before we can aquire land, and
that will mean higher taxes, it will mean fundraising,
it will mean making donations to a land fund.

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn.com> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND
> THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when
> we talk about the land project. People live in
> cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO
> CITIZENS!!!!!
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: L. Sicinius Drusus
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
> To: Nova Roma
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
> intresting, However given our current finicial
> status
> even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of
> land
> to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
> involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
> taxes on the land and would have to have insurance
> to
> protect ourselves from liability if someone was
> injured on the land. Until the treasury is far
> fuller
> than it is today land will remain a dream. If you
> want
> land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
> treasury.
>
> I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
> provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
> point of actually buying the land. There are going
> to
> be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
> find that a large portion of the Taxes they have
> paid
> in the past and will be paying in the future will go
> for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
> have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No
> matter
> what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
> ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
> happy about it.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis
> telum est."
> (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the
> killer's hand.)
> Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: What about Nova Roma "colleges"?
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:43:21 +0200

Salvete,

the Academia is one of the greatest achievements of Nova Roma so far. It might
not be "academic" yet, but we do not need to be in an so called "accredited
college" to learn. Fortunately...

Valete,

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator


> Very well said.
>
> G. Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 10/21/2002 8:27:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, RexMarcius
> writes:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > > Avete Omnes,
> > >
> > > The Academy is not a College. None of the people who teach there
> > are professionals or academics. Maybe one day in the future that can
> > be included. But at the current juncture the better place to learn
> > about the ancients is from an accredited college.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
> > Avete omnes,
> >
> > Please let me express my firm opinion here that the right honourable
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla is quite mistaken in his views.
> >
> > Just as the original Academia was a public garden where Plato taught
> > to those inclined to listen to his instructions, our Academia is also
> > a place open to those who want to learn more about the ancients from
> > those inside our community who have acquired a certain degree of
> > knowledge about Roma antiqua and Roma nova and who are willing to
> > share it.
> >
> > It seems strange to me that a sitting Consul would dismiss so easily
> > the hard work of many accomplished citizens who have begun to create
> > something which obviously fills a desire of both new and old
> > citizens. Should we really be barred from learning from each other in
> > an organized and well researched way (this is what we do in the
> > Academia)?
> >
> > Why should we throw away the one advantage we have over "accredited
> > colleges", our society that brings together Rome loving individuals?
> > No one says that you should not go to macronational colleges in order
> > to learn about "the ancients", quite the opposite! But why should we
> > not do it here as well? And why should we not do it now? Just go and
> > see for yourself: http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
> >
> > Avete et Valete
> >
> > Marcus Marcius Rex
> > Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> > Magister et Doctor iuris
> > Vertragsassistent a.D. University of Vienna/Austria (founded 1365 AD)
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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>
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>
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>




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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:56:26 +0200

Salvete Omnes,

I am very pleased to read how much the citizens of Nova Roma are getting
involved in the NRLandProject. It is a goal worth the effort and everybody
hopes that we will achieve it.
However, it is preferable to check the opportunities at first in terms of
fiscality, land taxes, insurances ... This prior work that will be done by my
office will definitely limit our choices. We can safely guess that when all
sorts of international legislations will be checked, only a few possibilities
will emerge. This task will take a very long time..
Of course, we can always talk about what we will build on the purchased land!!

Valete,

> I know that MONEY will be need to buy land on which we can build. I stated
> as much in the earlier discussions about the land project. We keep saying not
> now. But what is the game plan? What is the business plan ?That is all most
> of us are asking and making suggestions on what might be need to include in
> the plans if we want to build in twenty or so years. Will New Rome be a
> modern Roman city or a copy of the ancient City. What if anything will we be
> taking from the modern world with us? If tomorrow one of us won the Lottery
> or we found a rich patron (Does anybody know Bill Gates?, just a little joke)
> would we be any nearer to knowing what we wanted in a city?


--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

-------------------------------------------------
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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Archives
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:12:03 +0200

Salve Gnaeus Octavius Noricus,
Thank you for the link. I ended up finding it about 2 minutes after I sent
that email. I should have checked the website first, before I posted!

But thank you anyway!
Vale,
Diana


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] What about Nova Roma "colleges"?
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:34:09 +0200

Salvete,

Although this wouldn't be a Roman topic, how about a course 'English as a
second language'? Although it is not my current occupation, I studied to be
a teacher of English Creative Writing. I would be willing to teach the
course. Plus since I have had to learn 3 foreign languages, I think that I
have a good idea on how to teach a language course to-native speakers. And
late 2003, early 2004 would be good timing for me.

When I first found Nova Roma in the Spring of 1999, there was literally only
a handful of non-US Nova Romans. Now, I am thrilled to death to say that
there is an active group of Nova Romans in Europe and in the rest of the
world. I am just wondering if perhaps the people who need to have there
posts translated may want to learn English, but not have the financial means
to pay for lessons (or maybe even live too far away to attend English
classes).

Just a thought,
Diana Moravia (but still officially Apollonia) Aventina
(sorry if I am getting everyone confused!)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Vesta
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 04:55:29 EDT

In a message dated 10/21/02 9:56:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
lsicinius@yahoo.com writes:


> If we want Nova Roma to prosper Vesta's hearth has to
> be relit, and kept burning.

Here Here!!

Q. Fabius Maximus.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:23:12 +0100 (BST)

Salve Luci Corneli, Consul.

>Our financial balance is currently: BALANCE:
>$2076.85 based on this website: <a
>href="http://www.novaroma.org/aerarium_saturni/qua0111>1101.html"

The last financial report detailed was back in
November 2754 and the last budget posted was December
2753 - a year and two years ago respectively. Why is
this?

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:43:50 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,
The goal of owning land was set in the Declaration of
Nova Roma that established our nation. the Declaration
states

"We recognize the modern political realities which
make the restoration of such ancient lands to us
impossible. Therefore we limit our active territorial
claim to an amount of land at least equal to that held
by the sovereign state of Vatican City; 108 contiguous
acres. On this land a world capital for the
admistration of our culture will be founded in the
form of a Forum Romanum. The exact site for this New
Roman governmental and spiritual capital is to be
determined."

So the plan is to aquire at least 108 acres of land
for the administration of Nova Roma. This will be our
forum. It will be Public land, not land for some of
our citizens to live on. I Have no doubt that some of
our citizens will desire to aquire land adjacent to,
or near the forum to live on. This private land near
the forum is outside the topic of our Public forum,
and a matter best left up to citizens who wish to
aquire that land.

For the Forum, we shall need at a minnium a Temple
dedicated to Iupiter Optimus Maximus, and a site for
Vesta's hearth. It would be wonderful if we could also
have indiviual Temples dedicated to the other Roman
Gods, but I'm afraid we shall have to start with a
Pantheion for the other Gods. That means we shall need
to set aside land for at least three buildings to meet
the needs of the Religio. We may also want to insure
that some vacant land is availble so that future
generations can establish Temples to other Gods.

We will need a site for the Senate house (Which also
will be a Temple). We need a Rostra with open space
for the comitiae to meet. We also will need a Basilica
for other public meetings. We also will need some kind
of Arena where games can be held.

At First these Buildings will have to be modest, but
the sites for them have to be large enough so that
future generations will have room to expand them.

As far as style goes, I feel that all buildings in our
Forum should be built in the classic style. The
Architecture of private homes near our Forum should be
entirely up to the citizens who wished to live in
them.

Because of the nature of Nova Roma, we will have to
make one concession to the modern world. Internet
access will have to be avaible at the Public Buildings
so that citizens who aren't living near the Forum can
keep in touch with events in the Forum.

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn.com> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I know that MONEY will be need to buy land on which
> we can build. I stated as much in the earlier
> discussions about the land project. We keep saying
> not now. But what is the game plan? What is the
> business plan ?That is all most of us are asking and
> making suggestions on what might be need to include
> in the plans if we want to build in twenty or so
> years. Will New Rome be a modern Roman city or a
> copy of the ancient City. What if anything will we
> be taking from the modern world with us? If
> tomorrow one of us won the Lottery or we found a
> rich patron (Does anybody know Bill Gates?, just a
> little joke) would we be any nearer to knowing what
> we wanted in a city?
>
> Vale,
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: L. Sicinius Drusus
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:16 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
> Salve,
> Build it with what?
> Words won't aquire us a single square foot of land.
> Wishes won't sastify the tax collecter from whatever
> Macronation the land is located in. Insurance
> companies won't accept our hopes as payment for a
> policy. Building Supply Warehouses won't accept our
> dreams as payment for materials.
>
> There are few people in Nova Roma that want land
> worse
> than I do, but simply wanting land, dreaming of
> land,
> talking about land, wishing for land and dreaming
> about land isn't enough. It will take cold hard cash
> to make our dreams a reality, lots of it.
>
> We have to aquire money before we can aquire land,
> and
> that will mean higher taxes, it will mean
> fundraising,
> it will mean making donations to a land fund.
>
> --- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn.com> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND
> > THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when
> > we talk about the land project. People live in
> > cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO
> > CITIZENS!!!!!
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: L. Sicinius Drusus
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
> > To: Nova Roma
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land
> >
> > Salvete Quirites,
> >
> > The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
> > intresting, However given our current finicial
> > status
> > even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of
> > land
> > to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the
> costs
> > involved in owning the land. We would be liable
> for
> > taxes on the land and would have to have insurance
> > to
> > protect ourselves from liability if someone was
> > injured on the land. Until the treasury is far
> > fuller
> > than it is today land will remain a dream. If you
> > want
> > land the first step is finding a means to enrich
> the
> > treasury.
> >
> > I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
> > provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to
> the
> > point of actually buying the land. There are going
> > to
> > be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when
> they
> > find that a large portion of the Taxes they have
> > paid
> > in the past and will be paying in the future will
> go
> > for a plot of land that is so distant that they
> will
> > have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No
> > matter
> > what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
> > ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not
> be
> > happy about it.
> >
> >
> > =====
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> > "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis
> > telum est."
> > (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the
> > killer's hand.)
> > Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis
> telum est."
> (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the
> killer's hand.)
> Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 216
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:49:25 EDT

In a message dated 10/22/2002 1:19:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
alexious@earthlink.net writes:


> Claudius Salix Davianus is a professor of Latin? Where did he get his
> degree? If he is, then he is exactly what we need. Has he published any
> works.

I really don't care if he has published works. What I care about, is can the
man teach me how to read and write in Latin.

G. Modius Athanasius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: To all members in the U. S. state of Georgia...or those c...
From:	caiustarquitius@gmx.de
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:34:33 +0200 (MEST)

In fact the statue was a present to Rome GA by Benito Mussolini.

--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: [ComitiaCuriata] The Comitia Curiata is Called to Order (fwd)
From:	"Thomas Gangale"<marcus@martiana.org>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:27:59 -0700

Salvete,

As Lictor of the Comitia Curiata, I hereby acknowledge and confirm the
following new flamines and priests.

Quintus Volcatius Romanus - Flamen Volcanalis
Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius - Flamen Furinalis
Ambrosius Silvanius Virbius - Epulones Priest
Gaius Modius Athanasius - Flamen Pomonalis
Iulia Vopisca Cocceia - Sacerdotes Palatua
Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus - Flamen Cerealis

May the Gods of Roma smile upon them and guide them in their duties.

Valete,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius, Lictor

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Academia Thules
From:	"Circe Aeaea" <osculum@bigpond.com.au>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:03:15 +1000

Salve...

I can't seem to get this page to work. None of the buttons do anything. Does
one need some sort of 'modern' computer? Mine is made of stone and string -
well, not quite, but I've only got Windows 95.

http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/

Vale

Tullia (the Luddite).

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@usa.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:48:11 -0400

How about instead of a fund to buy land, a fund to preserve
and protect real Roman archaeological sites? Nova Roma could
help restore the Colosseum or the Roman Forum or help protect
newly discovered sites. That would increase the prestige and
visibility of Nova Roma and help us grow.

TAS

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: I too am new
From:	"Circe Aeaea" <osculum@bigpond.com.au>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:53:27 +1000

Salve Publius Tarquitius Rufus

>>If you are interested in Roman daily life and Roman food, I HIGHLY
recommend contacting Caius Tarquitius Saturninus. I had the honor of
speaking to him "live" last night, and he has OVER 550 reciepes of
Roman dishes! :-)
Maybe we could get him to publish us a cookbood we could purchase!<<

Now that sounds like a good idea.

>>I have always found frescoes beautiful, and most difficult. I would
love to learn how they did it...oh! I just had an idea....read the
board! :-) (TRhanks for the awesome idea!)<<

Having recently gone through 3 books which show wall paintings from Pompeii,
Herculaneum and Stabiae (I think that was it), I'm not sure that I was
correct in calling them 'frescoes' and not just 'domestic wall paintings'
however they do _look_ like frescoes and Gods do I just love them. I really
like the painting style, obviously they've probably faded over the
centuries. What about the strange 'Trompe L'eoil' (I think thats how you
spell it), illusory-style, painted images on domestic walls (in Pompeii
anyway) of architecture or interiors with masks and shelves with things on
them also, all painted very realistically. I think they look extremely
lovely... Ah well I am an artist myself of mural-sized tapestries
(www.victapestry.com.au) But I don't think I could hope to re-capture this
sort of 'fresco' work. Mosaics, yes.

>>I have been reading the boards here just around a week. There are
some truly brilliant people here, and I'm POSITIVE you will find a
wonderful friend (or several) here!
Vale,
Publius Tarquitius Rufus<<

Umm, call me a computer illiterate, but whats a board exactly?


And Salve to Galerius Peregrinator who said...

>> We're happy you joined us. As to the magic Hecate is one of our deities.
Welcome to Novaroma.
Galerius Peregrinator.<<

I am curently reading a fascinating book called "Hekate in Ancient Greek
Religion" by Robert Von Rudloff (yes I know its Greek and not Roman) and he
traces her form and function _before_ she was a Witches' Goddess which
apparently was more of a phenomena of Roman literature... though she was
associated with ghosts etc by Classical (I think it was) times. I plan to
follow this book with "Hekate Soteira" by Sarah Iles Johnston about the role
of Hekate in the Chaldean Oracles, and then "The Rotting Goddess" by Jacob
Rabonowitz which apparently traces the 'form' of the Witch from
antiquity.... It sure broadens one's horizon from the rather erroneous
neo-pagan idea that Hekate was a 'crone' goddess.


Salve also C. Minucius Hadrianus

You said...
>>If you are interested in magic, you should get a copy of Arcana Mundi:
Magic and the Occult in the Greek and Roman World by Prof. Geog Luck.
Excellent book!<<

Yes I've just bought it actually. Looks fab. Georg Luck also wrote a chapter
for the Athlone History of Witchcraft and Magic: Ancient Greece and Rome".


Salve Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

You said,
>>Welcome to Nova Roma, Tullia Sentia.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix<<

Thank you.

All this typing has got me rather exhausted..

Vale

Tullia.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New citizen, late mail
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?Q?Cristi=E1n_I.S.?=" <cristian_isj@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:10:31 -0300

Salvete!
I introduce myself, my name is Gaius Marius Verus, and I'm not so new, well,
a month ago, I think. This is my first mail in this list although I just
wrote to the list of
Religio Romana.
I'm trying to be updated with all the matters that happens, and all the
things I have to
learn!!
Valete!

C. Marius Verus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Claudians?
From:	Navarra Reid <sacerdos@shaw.ca>
Date:	Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:47:59 -0600

Savete Omnes:

Could any persons belonging to the gens Claudia that are still active in
NovaRome please contact me at e-mail address:

sacerdos@shaw.ca

Vale,

Appia Claudia I.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Vesta is not a problem...
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:10:01 -0300 (ART)

Salve,

I agree entirely that we must have the sacred fire of Vesta and the Penates.

So I gladly will let the pontifices flare the fire on the backyard on my brazilian house. The fire of Vesta can have ´asilum´ and protection there. I will let the piece of my backyard to the use of the gods and religion, it is not a donation, unfortunatly I ´still´ need my house, but It will be a honor having such a sacred presence there. As we see in the Aeneid, the penates can have asilum on particular houses of citizens and friends. And all the NR friends fell welcome at my house!

So, Vesta can have a home there!

But someone will say: "South America is too far!" - And I will say: ´North America is too far as well !' . It is funny see people fighting for the land project most interested to have the NR Roman Disney on the very doorstep of the own neighborhood.

We do not need to buy land to have a true ´pietas´. Is everyone doing its ´homework´? Does everyone have a lararium? (No?) Is everyone participating of the games? (No?) Is everyone engaged on a solidalitas? (No?) Is everyone writing on NR lists? (No?) Is everyone paying the taxes? (No?) Is everyone desiring a magistracy? (No?) Is everyone helping the upload of NR site, our virtual land? (No?) Is every new citizens NOT disappearing of NR months after? (No?) So... we neither have milk neither flour neither oven and there is people already discussing the position of the cherries on the chantilly at the top of the cake!

First things first!

I really think that internet discussions disgusting, and we do have to measure cautiously all the words. Land project is put fire on the gunpowder anytime.

Let´s be good citizens FIRST. I´m sure the gods will please and help us to buy land. This colossal project is for our grandsons taste. As the might of Roma was not for the time of Romulus...



Vale bene in pacem deorum...



L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.

Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html



Se de ócio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,

Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...

Satira Quarta, Horácio



---------------------------------
Yahoo! GeoCities
Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas fáceis de usar, espaço de sobra e acessórios.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Academia Thules
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:36:58 -0700

Avete Tullia,

It should work. I have viewed most of NR's sites from various computers at Earthlink. From Windows 3.1 to Unix they all should come up. What error are you getting? When are you getting it?

Please feel free to email me privately if you wish.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Circe Aeaea
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 4:03 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Academia Thules


Salve...

I can't seem to get this page to work. None of the buttons do anything. Does
one need some sort of 'modern' computer? Mine is made of stone and string -
well, not quite, but I've only got Windows 95.

http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/

Vale

Tullia (the Luddite).

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:44:53 -0700

Avete Omnes,

It is my understanding that most macronations have laws in place to protect
Roman Archaeological centers.

In the past Nova Roma has contributed to the Hadrian's Wall expedition as
well. This is something Nova Roma should do in the future once measures
have been taken to protect and solidify our own foundation.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@usa.net>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Land


> How about instead of a fund to buy land, a fund to preserve
> and protect real Roman archaeological sites? Nova Roma could
> help restore the Colosseum or the Roman Forum or help protect
> newly discovered sites. That would increase the prestige and
> visibility of Nova Roma and help us grow.
>
> TAS
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Land Project -- Vesta
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:53:16 +0200

Salve L. Arminius Faustus et Omnes,

>we neither have milk neither flour neither oven and there
> is people already discussing the position of the cherries on the chantilly at
> the top of the cake!

this is partly true. The NRLandProject has always been said to be in the very
beginning. We are so far only preparing to check all sort of legislations in
order to be ready when time will come. This process is very long (much longer
than a translation task ;O) ) and it will take years before we gather all the
needed information.
It is impossible so far to know what and where to buy. But people get very
enthousiast over this project!! I hope they will keep this energy to the end.
There is much to do, and people that want to help can email me for further
information.

Valete,

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

-------------------------------------------------
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] MAXIMI LUDI CIRCENSES
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:06:06 +0200

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

Well, after the Victoriae Ludi Circenses, the last open ludi organized by C.
Fabius Quintilianus, this is the hit-list of the best charioteers of the
year 2755.

The first 16 will run in MAXIMI LUDI CIRCENSES, the final race appointing
the BEST CHARRIOT OF 2755.
They are invited to confirm own partecipation sending an e-mail to
sacro_barese_impero@libero.it. The e-mail must to contain the subject "MLC"
and the usual informations about the partecipation.
If there will something don't run, we'll invite the players following the
16th place.
Please read the regulations at
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/mvc.htm

...................................................................
|||||||||||||||||||||||| HIT LIST 2755 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
...................................................................
Legend:
place / points / chariot / factio / owner
[a] : Albata
[p] : Praesina
[r] : Russata
[v] : Veneta
..................................................................
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||

I - (20 points) - ESSEDUM [p]
M. Constantinus Serapio
..................................................................
II - (17) - INEXPUGNABILIS [p]
C. Curius Saturninus
..................................................................
III - (16) - HYACINTHA MAGNA [r]
T. Arminius Hyacinthus
..................................................................
IV - (13) - AQUILIFER [r]
M. Minucius Rufus
..................................................................
V - (11) - FLAVIA FERRATA [p]
C. Flavius Diocletianus
..................................................................
VI - (10) - ITALICA [r]
F. Apulus Caesar
..................................................................
VII - (7) - FULMEN VIRIDIS [p]
M. Villus Limitanus
..................................................................
VIII - (6)
DELECTA MEA [p]
J. Sempronia Magna
PHAETON [v]
G. Cornelius Ahenobarbus
CRUX AUSTRALIS [v]
L. Pompeius Octavianus
GLADIUS ALBUS [a]
M- Octavius Solaris
..................................................................
XII - (5)
FUROR TEUTONICUS [r]
A. Solaris Draco
MASSILIA [r]
S. Apollonius Draco
VOLATILIS [p]
T. Labienus Fortunatus
..................................................................
XV - (4)
AENGLISH WILDFIRE [v]
M. S. Curio Britannicus
B.S.D. LIBER [a]
M. Octavius Germanicus
..................................................................

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|||||||
..................................................................
XV bis - (4)
IUS SANGUINIS [r]
APOLLO VICTOR [r]
PROLIAETOR [r]
ATTIA CLUSIA [r]
BASILEA [p]
IMPACTUS INFRENATUS [a]
..................................................................
3 points:
POLLUX [v]
BROKEN SKODERUS [v]
..................................................................
2 points:
SQUALIDUS [r]
FULMINATORA [r]
APOLLO'S CAR [p]
APOLUS [p]
LEO [p]
INCITATUS [p]
TURBIO [v]
INVICTA [a]
..................................................................
1 points:
SAGITTA RUSSATA [r]
METELLA MAXIMA [r]
NIQUELA CUPRO-COBALTOSA [r]
FASTBEEP [v]
ROSA AESTAS [a]
..................................................................
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Land Project -- Vesta
From:	"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:11:49 -0000

SALVE OPTIME APOLLONI!


> The NRLandProject has always been said to be in the very
> beginning. We are so far only preparing to check all sort of
legislations in
> order to be ready when time will come. This process is very long
(much longer
> than a translation task ;O) ) and it will take years before we
gather all the
> needed information.


But we are doing, we are doing! The 13th work of Hercules, the Babel
Tower, is very advanced, thing undreamed just six months ago! This
´work of ants´ that brings faith on the Res Publica and group
initiative.

I have pretty confidence that the Land Project will happen, when I
don´t guess. If NR haven´t spred throught all the world, the would
not have a so fine multilanguage site. So, NR being stronger on
citizens has made the Translation Project a reality. On the same way,
NR stronger and stronger and stronger will made the Land Project a
reality. Making a paralelism to nuclear physics, we must have enough
´critical mass´ of citizens to start the land reaction...

L. Arminius Faustus
Interpreter et scriba

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Academy Thules
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:58:45 -0000

MANIVS CONSTANTINVS SERAPIO OPTIMO LVCIO CORNELIO SVLLAE CONSVLI
S.P.D.

>If that means that eventually a fee will be necessary, I do not have
>a problem with that. Sometimes Quality costs. I understand that,
>and if I know I am getting a good product I would be willing to
>pay.

Perhaps you are not completely wrong. Your statement should make us
thinking.
Nova Roma has now about 1500 citizens. At the beginning of the year
we had about 1400 citizens (please, correct me if I am wrong), and no
more than 200 people (maybe I am exagerating) paid taxes.
I am sure they all reasoned like you, and perhaps about 1300 people
didn't pay because they didn't consider our Res Publica a "good
product".
That is sad to admit, I know; and you, that have held the highest
office of Nova Roma for more than once, you will surely be much more
sad than everyone here.

However, perhaps things are not going as I am saying. We all know
that Nova Roma *is* a good product. We *do* offer quality. Probably
people didn't pay taxes because Nova Roma is still growing, just like
the Academia Thules.

Very respectfully,

MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Legatvs Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Plebis Cicatricis
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs
----------------------------
AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html
----------------------------
PROVINCIA ITALIA
http://italia.novaroma.org

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Academy Thules
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:26:09 -0700

Avete Manius Constantinus,

Actually I predicted that about 15% of our total citizens would pay the tax.

Maybe in time when Nova Roma can successfully provide more services, like the Eagle and have more provincial events and such participation will increase.

I promulgated the Census law to find out our "true" number of citizens. I am aware from our Tribune Salix, that he knows there are citizens who hold more than one citizenship. I know there are many citizens who have grown disgusted with NR and left without resigning. I also know that there are citizens who are out of contact for one reason or another and might or might not come back to NR. I also know there are citizens who just filled out the application form and then forgot about NR (because when I was Censor I called and spoke to them).

So, at this point I don't even view the 1500 citizens as a true and accurate number. I view the 14% of paid their tax as a true and accurate number that reflects the true population of Nova Roma.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Manius Constantinus Serapio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 7:58 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Academy Thules


MANIVS CONSTANTINVS SERAPIO OPTIMO LVCIO CORNELIO SVLLAE CONSVLI
S.P.D.

>If that means that eventually a fee will be necessary, I do not have
>a problem with that. Sometimes Quality costs. I understand that,
>and if I know I am getting a good product I would be willing to
>pay.

Perhaps you are not completely wrong. Your statement should make us
thinking.
Nova Roma has now about 1500 citizens. At the beginning of the year
we had about 1400 citizens (please, correct me if I am wrong), and no
more than 200 people (maybe I am exagerating) paid taxes.
I am sure they all reasoned like you, and perhaps about 1300 people
didn't pay because they didn't consider our Res Publica a "good
product".
That is sad to admit, I know; and you, that have held the highest
office of Nova Roma for more than once, you will surely be much more
sad than everyone here.

However, perhaps things are not going as I am saying. We all know
that Nova Roma *is* a good product. We *do* offer quality. Probably
people didn't pay taxes because Nova Roma is still growing, just like
the Academia Thules.

Very respectfully,

MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Legatvs Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Plebis Cicatricis
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs
----------------------------
AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html
----------------------------
PROVINCIA ITALIA
http://italia.novaroma.org

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:20:25 -0400

Salve, Honored Consul

I have been doing just as you have suggested and for the past month or two I have been reading posts that are in the archives, including the proceedings of the Senate. Very interesting to say the least. I have noticed that citizens take the postings very seriously.

However If we can not discuss any item of interest to the Citizens of Nova Roma on these pages, without starting a fight over the internet, how can we expect to BUILD A CITY ON A HILL (or seven) and expect it to last?

You can answer a couple of questions though. I have noticed that a citizen can be striped of their citizenship by a vote of the Senate (2/3?) is this correct? In my macro nation (USA ) any naturally born Citizen can commit the worst crimes and even be put to death but can not have their citizenship taken away. Naturalized citizens ,if the lied on the application can have it revoked, but a naturally born citizen has to renounce their citizenship, the government can not strip them of it. Should we not make our citizenship more permanent and protected from the whims of a temporary majority? My second question is about the Oath of Office. If one does not adhere to the Roman Religion can they affirm or modify the Oath so as not to offend their religion? Thank you for taking the time to write.

Vale,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus



----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:19 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Avete Tiberius Galerius,

I truly enjoy hearing the posts of new citizens. Its wonderful that we have such unjaded opinions in NR. But, I also think that many of our newer citizens should review some of the archieves to see just how hostile Nova Roma over other issues. The land debate has the potential to be extremely devisive.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land


Salve,

Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when we talk about the land project. People live in cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO CITIZENS!!!!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
To: Nova Roma
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salvete Quirites,

The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
intresting, However given our current finicial status
even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of land
to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
taxes on the land and would have to have insurance to
protect ourselves from liability if someone was
injured on the land. Until the treasury is far fuller
than it is today land will remain a dream. If you want
land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
treasury.

I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
point of actually buying the land. There are going to
be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
find that a large portion of the Taxes they have paid
in the past and will be paying in the future will go
for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No matter
what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
happy about it.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:01:46 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land


Salve, Honored Consul

Ave Tiberius Galerius,
I have been doing just as you have suggested and for the past month or two I have been reading posts that are in the archives, including the proceedings of the Senate. Very interesting to say the least. I have noticed that citizens take the postings very seriously.

Sulla: I am sure some of it is interesting. :)
However If we can not discuss any item of interest to the Citizens of Nova Roma on these pages, without starting a fight over the internet, how can we expect to BUILD A CITY ON A HILL (or seven) and expect it to last?

Sulla: I don't see a fight currently brewing on the ML. And as for fighting over the net, it is to be expected, there is simply no way to avoid it. Many people in NR have strong feelings and emotions, and I am one of them. <g>

You can answer a couple of questions though.

Sulla: Sure I will do my best.

I have noticed that a citizen can be striped of their citizenship by a vote of the Senate (2/3?) is this correct?

Sulla: No that is not correct Section V in the Constitution states the powers of the Senate, you can view that link here: http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/constitution.html,

Sulla: To be stripped of citizenship one must be tried. That can only happen in the Comitias. And then a person has the ability to invoke a provactio and that is an appeal to the People.

In my macro nation (USA ) any naturally born Citizen can commit the worst crimes and even be put to death but can not have their citizenship taken away.

Sulla: You can lose your right to vote and other protections such as the right to bear arms in the United States, if you are convicted with a crime. So, think of losing your citizenship in Nova Roma as a form of exile, which happened in ancient Rome.

Naturalized citizens ,if the lied on the application can have it revoked, but a naturally born citizen has to renounce their citizenship, the government can not strip them of it. Should we not make our citizenship more permanent and protected from the whims of a temporary majority?

Sulla: I think someone would have to do some very serious offence to have the People remove their citizenship. There are a few things that I think would warrant such an action would be when a governor embezzeled funds from Nova Roma (which has happened). That would warrant the sentence of exile. Lying on your citizenship application would be another (this has happend too). Personally I think that if you have more than one citizenship that also should be considered an offense that would warrant expulsion, this this is just my personal opinion. But, here is a delimma we are facing in NR. Any punishment beyond list moderation and exile is impossible because of the Constitution of Nova Roma. There is a clause there called the Soverignty clause. It prevents any other punishment that would impose restrictions that would impact any persons soverignty. Therefore any other punishment would be illegal and this will be a problem once we do get land. Because there will be no way to really enforce your laws other than list moderation (a non-issue when we have land) and exile.

Sulla: Recently a Senator libelled another Senator on the ML and if that libel affected that individual outside of NR we could have been in a serious situation. Because, there is no system of jurisprudence in Nova Roma to deal with such a cause of action, nor is there a way to enforce any judgement that might have been rendered. The only way something like this can get resolved would be to go to the macronational level. But, to do so would jeopardize the very not for profit corporation we are in. Without a means to enforce judgements and create a system of jurisprudence we will be at the very mercy of our macronations.

My second question is about the Oath of Office. If one does not adhere to the Roman Religion can they affirm or modify the Oath so as not to offend their religion?

Sulla: Many people have asked me this question. Let me state that I am Jewish (learning and observing Orthodox Judiasm) and I have had no problem taking the Oath of Office. I respect everyones right to practice their own faith. If you decide in the future to run for office and if you are not a Pagan, please ask yourself if you can respect the Religio and those people who practice it. If you can, you should have no problem at all. If you cannot, then you might want to reconsider running for office.

Thank you for taking the time to write.

Sulla: Sure it was no problem, I hope my reply answered some of your concerns.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Vale,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus



----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:19 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Avete Tiberius Galerius,

I truly enjoy hearing the posts of new citizens. Its wonderful that we have such unjaded opinions in NR. But, I also think that many of our newer citizens should review some of the archieves to see just how hostile Nova Roma over other issues. The land debate has the potential to be extremely devisive.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land


Salve,

Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when we talk about the land project. People live in cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO CITIZENS!!!!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
To: Nova Roma
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salvete Quirites,

The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
intresting, However given our current finicial status
even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of land
to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
taxes on the land and would have to have insurance to
protect ourselves from liability if someone was
injured on the land. Until the treasury is far fuller
than it is today land will remain a dream. If you want
land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
treasury.

I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
point of actually buying the land. There are going to
be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
find that a large portion of the Taxes they have paid
in the past and will be paying in the future will go
for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No matter
what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
happy about it.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	Matt Haase <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:27:34 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Tiberi Galeri,

> You can answer a couple of questions though. I have noticed that a
> citizen can be striped of their citizenship by a vote of the
> Senate (2/3?) is this correct? In my macro nation (USA ) any naturally
> born Citizen can commit the worst crimes and even be put to death but
> can not have their citizenship taken away.

Here, we must use banishment as punishment because that's all we have.
We cannot compel payment of a fine; we cannot imprison an evildoer,
or kill him. For a community that primarly exists on a communications
network, the only possible punishment is to shun a wrongdoer - through
temporary loss of speaking priviliges, or permanent exclusion in the
form of loss of citizenship.

This is a historical solution, as well - banishment was used by the
ancients as a punishment for crimes.

> My second question is about the Oath of Office. If one does not adhere
> to the Roman Religion can they affirm or modify the Oath so as not to
> offend their religion?

Our law does not allow for changes to the Oath. It was written in
such a way as to require that the magistrate honor our gods, and not
endanger the Religio Romana, even if not a believer or practitioner.
You need swear only to "honor" our Gods - not to believe in them.
We've had Christian and Jewish magistrates, including Consuls,
Censores, and Praetores, who took this oath willingly.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:32:45 -0400

Salve, Thank you

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:01 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land


----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land


Salve, Honored Consul

Ave Tiberius Galerius,
I have been doing just as you have suggested and for the past month or two I have been reading posts that are in the archives, including the proceedings of the Senate. Very interesting to say the least. I have noticed that citizens take the postings very seriously.

Sulla: I am sure some of it is interesting. :)
However If we can not discuss any item of interest to the Citizens of Nova Roma on these pages, without starting a fight over the internet, how can we expect to BUILD A CITY ON A HILL (or seven) and expect it to last?

Sulla: I don't see a fight currently brewing on the ML. And as for fighting over the net, it is to be expected, there is simply no way to avoid it. Many people in NR have strong feelings and emotions, and I am one of them. <g>

You can answer a couple of questions though.

Sulla: Sure I will do my best.

I have noticed that a citizen can be striped of their citizenship by a vote of the Senate (2/3?) is this correct?

Sulla: No that is not correct Section V in the Constitution states the powers of the Senate, you can view that link here: http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/constitution.html,

Sulla: To be stripped of citizenship one must be tried. That can only happen in the Comitias. And then a person has the ability to invoke a provactio and that is an appeal to the People.

In my macro nation (USA ) any naturally born Citizen can commit the worst crimes and even be put to death but can not have their citizenship taken away.

Sulla: You can lose your right to vote and other protections such as the right to bear arms in the United States, if you are convicted with a crime. So, think of losing your citizenship in Nova Roma as a form of exile, which happened in ancient Rome.

Naturalized citizens ,if the lied on the application can have it revoked, but a naturally born citizen has to renounce their citizenship, the government can not strip them of it. Should we not make our citizenship more permanent and protected from the whims of a temporary majority?

Sulla: I think someone would have to do some very serious offence to have the People remove their citizenship. There are a few things that I think would warrant such an action would be when a governor embezzeled funds from Nova Roma (which has happened). That would warrant the sentence of exile. Lying on your citizenship application would be another (this has happend too). Personally I think that if you have more than one citizenship that also should be considered an offense that would warrant expulsion, this this is just my personal opinion. But, here is a delimma we are facing in NR. Any punishment beyond list moderation and exile is impossible because of the Constitution of Nova Roma. There is a clause there called the Soverignty clause. It prevents any other punishment that would impose restrictions that would impact any persons soverignty. Therefore any other punishment would be illegal and this will be a problem once we do get land. Because there will be no way to really enforce your laws other than list moderation (a non-issue when we have land) and exile.

Sulla: Recently a Senator libelled another Senator on the ML and if that libel affected that individual outside of NR we could have been in a serious situation. Because, there is no system of jurisprudence in Nova Roma to deal with such a cause of action, nor is there a way to enforce any judgement that might have been rendered. The only way something like this can get resolved would be to go to the macronational level. But, to do so would jeopardize the very not for profit corporation we are in. Without a means to enforce judgements and create a system of jurisprudence we will be at the very mercy of our macronations.

My second question is about the Oath of Office. If one does not adhere to the Roman Religion can they affirm or modify the Oath so as not to offend their religion?

Sulla: Many people have asked me this question. Let me state that I am Jewish (learning and observing Orthodox Judiasm) and I have had no problem taking the Oath of Office. I respect everyones right to practice their own faith. If you decide in the future to run for office and if you are not a Pagan, please ask yourself if you can respect the Religio and those people who practice it. If you can, you should have no problem at all. If you cannot, then you might want to reconsider running for office.

Thank you for taking the time to write.

Sulla: Sure it was no problem, I hope my reply answered some of your concerns.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Vale,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus



----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:19 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Avete Tiberius Galerius,

I truly enjoy hearing the posts of new citizens. Its wonderful that we have such unjaded opinions in NR. But, I also think that many of our newer citizens should review some of the archieves to see just how hostile Nova Roma over other issues. The land debate has the potential to be extremely devisive.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land


Salve,

Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when we talk about the land project. People live in cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO CITIZENS!!!!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
To: Nova Roma
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salvete Quirites,

The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
intresting, However given our current finicial status
even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of land
to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
taxes on the land and would have to have insurance to
protect ourselves from liability if someone was
injured on the land. Until the treasury is far fuller
than it is today land will remain a dream. If you want
land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
treasury.

I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
point of actually buying the land. There are going to
be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
find that a large portion of the Taxes they have paid
in the past and will be paying in the future will go
for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No matter
what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
happy about it.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:57:39 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Tiberi Galeri,

> You can answer a couple of questions though. I have noticed that a
> citizen can be striped of their citizenship by a vote of the
> Senate (2/3?) is this correct? In my macro nation (USA ) any naturally
> born Citizen can commit the worst crimes and even be put to death but
> can not have their citizenship taken away.

Here, we must use banishment as punishment because that's all we have.
We cannot compel payment of a fine; we cannot imprison an evildoer,
or kill him. For a community that primarly exists on a communications
network, the only possible punishment is to shun a wrongdoer - through
temporary loss of speaking priviliges, or permanent exclusion in the
form of loss of citizenship.

This is a historical solution, as well - banishment was used by the
ancients as a punishment for crimes.

> My second question is about the Oath of Office. If one does not adhere
> to the Roman Religion can they affirm or modify the Oath so as not to
> offend their religion?

Our law does not allow for changes to the Oath. It was written in
such a way as to require that the magistrate honor our gods, and not
endanger the Religio Romana, even if not a believer or practitioner.
You need swear only to "honor" our Gods - not to believe in them.
We've had Christian and Jewish magistrates, including Consuls,
Censores, and Praetores, who took this oath willingly.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Citizenship / religious oath
From:	"mjk" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:10:26 -0600

Salve Tiberi,

In Canada it is possible to lose your naturally born citizenship if you serve in a foreign army that is not allied with this country. One of my father's friends was an officer in the Canadian navy in world war 11. After the war he went and joined the Isreali armed forces to help them in the 1947 war. Our government found out, raked him over the coals so to speak and almost had him stripped of his citizenship. He did get out of it fortunately. Their reasoning was that although many of our sympathies were with Isreal, Canada still had good relations with the Arab countries involved in the conflict and it is extremely embarrassing to have our soldiers show up fighting against them. Anway this situation of stripping citizenship is extremely rare but I believe it is still in the books. Of course you would not be deported by you would never get a passport again or be able to vote. As in the US, non born citizens can be stripped of their citizenship and deported for lying about their backgrounds eg. war criminals etc.

With regards to Religio Romano, I thought about the oath for a while. It only asks you to respect and as a magistrate, defend the right of the religion to exist. It does not force you to convert and worship the gods. To me it is more of a freedom to worship the gods clause that shall not be infringed upon. In my opinion the word "honour" means to have respect for the Roman religion and its worshipers; not having to worship the gods yourself. If you check the history of NR, this oath was brought in to protect the religion against intolerance and possibly being wiped out. So if I were to become Proconsul or dictator some day and say ah, I am Christian and I think NR should be adjusted to the post Constantine era, paganism should be erradicated etc it would be impossible for me to do this. Most of our Western governments though Christian also protect the rights ot other one god or many gods to exist.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Scriba Praefecti

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA


> You can answer a couple of questions though. I have noticed that a citizen can be striped of their citizenship by a vote of the Senate (2/3?) is this correct? In my macro nation (USA ) any naturally born Citizen can commit the worst crimes and even be put to death but can not have their citizenship taken away. Naturalized citizens ,if the lied on the application can have it revoked, but a naturally born citizen has to renounce their citizenship, the government can not strip them of it. Should we not make our citizenship more permanent and protected from the whims of a temporary majority? My second question is about the Oath of Office. If one does not adhere to the Roman Religion can they affirm or modify the Oath so as not to offend their religion? Thank you for taking the time to write.
>
> Vale,
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: L. Cornelius Sulla
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:19 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
>
>

Scriba Praefecti

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: the new Sacerdotes Novae Romae
From:	Piparskeggr Ullarsson <piparskegg@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:42:48 -0700 (PDT)

Avete - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator scripsit:

Am catching up here from 3 weeks of entertaining my parents and beginning a new
job. Hopefully I've caught the name corrections properly.

#################################################

As a Lictor of Nova Roma, sitting upon the Comitiae Curiatae, I hereby witness
and acknowledge the new Sacerdotes Novae Romae.

Quintus Volcatius Romanus - Flamen Volcanalis

Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius - Flamen Furinalis

Ambrosius Silvanius Virbius - Epulones Priest

Gaius Modius Athanasius - Flamen Pomonalis

Iulia Vopisca Cocceia  - Sacerdotes Palatua

Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus - Flamen Cerealis

In amicus sub fidelis - P Ullerius Venator
- Lictor et Cives Nova Roma

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Confirmation of Lictors
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:03:50 -0700

Salvete Omnes,

As Lictor of the Comitia Curiata, I hereby acknowledge and confirm the
following new flamines and priests.

Quintus Volcatius Romanus - Flamen Volcanalis

Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius - Flamen Furinalis

Ambrosius Silvanius Virbius - Epulones Priest

Gaius Modius Athanasius - Flamen Pomonalis

Iulia Vopisca Cocceia - Sacerdotes Palatua

Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus - Flamen Cerealis

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:46:59 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Consul,

> But, here is a delimma we are facing in NR. Any punishment beyond list
> moderation and exile is impossible because of the Constitution of Nova Roma.
> There is a clause there called the Soverignty clause. It prevents any
> other punishment that would impose restrictions that would impact any
> persons soverignty. Therefore any other punishment would be illegal
> and this will be a problem once we do get land.

Here is the relevant clause:

The right to remain sovereign and secure within one's own home,
person, and property;

Let us consider the punishments that we can impose:

- Loss of citizenship - explicitly allowed by the Constitution.
- Censors' Nota - explicitly allowed by the Constitution.
- Mailing List Censorship.
Only those communications threatening the state, or threatening
"order and stability", may be censored. Reasonable messages
from anyone would still be allowed; thus this is not an effective
punishment for anything other than list disruption.
- Fines.
When a fine has been imposed, the money can no longer be considered
the property of the citizen who must pay the fine; it is the property
of the government, and is a debt like any other. Unless an appeal
is made to a higher authority, the citizen must pay the fine, or face
stricter measures (that should include banishment).
- Imprisonment.
This would be against our Constitution, as the prisoner would
no longer be "secure within one's home home [and] person"...
but it will be many years before we will need to consider this
option, and it may never occur.

Thus, with the ever-present ability to banish scofflaws, our system
is adequate for our needs for the foreseeable future - without having
to dispense with personal sovereignity, which would cause many more
problems than it would solve.

> Sulla: Recently a Senator libelled another Senator on the ML

Your opinion - it was never proven libelous. Libel must be both
untrue and damaging, and no competent authority has judged any
recent words here as such.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Citizenship / religious oath
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:29:09 -0400

Salve, Thank you. In the USA you can lose it but it needs to an avert act before the government can act.

----- Original Message -----
From: mjk
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:16 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Citizenship / religious oath

Salve Tiberi,

In Canada it is possible to lose your naturally born citizenship if you serve in a foreign army that is not allied with this country. One of my father's friends was an officer in the Canadian navy in world war 11. After the war he went and joined the Isreali armed forces to help them in the 1947 war. Our government found out, raked him over the coals so to speak and almost had him stripped of his citizenship. He did get out of it fortunately. Their reasoning was that although many of our sympathies were with Isreal, Canada still had good relations with the Arab countries involved in the conflict and it is extremely embarrassing to have our soldiers show up fighting against them. Anway this situation of stripping citizenship is extremely rare but I believe it is still in the books. Of course you would not be deported by you would never get a passport again or be able to vote. As in the US, non born citizens can be stripped of their citizenship and deported for lying about their backgrounds eg. war criminals etc.

With regards to Religio Romano, I thought about the oath for a while. It only asks you to respect and as a magistrate, defend the right of the religion to exist. It does not force you to convert and worship the gods. To me it is more of a freedom to worship the gods clause that shall not be infringed upon. In my opinion the word "honour" means to have respect for the Roman religion and its worshipers; not having to worship the gods yourself. If you check the history of NR, this oath was brought in to protect the religion against intolerance and possibly being wiped out. So if I were to become Proconsul or dictator some day and say ah, I am Christian and I think NR should be adjusted to the post Constantine era, paganism should be erradicated etc it would be impossible for me to do this. Most of our Western governments though Christian also protect the rights ot other one god or many gods to exist.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Scriba Praefecti

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA


> You can answer a couple of questions though. I have noticed that a citizen can be striped of their citizenship by a vote of the Senate (2/3?) is this correct? In my macro nation (USA ) any naturally born Citizen can commit the worst crimes and even be put to death but can not have their citizenship taken away. Naturalized citizens ,if the lied on the application can have it revoked, but a naturally born citizen has to renounce their citizenship, the government can not strip them of it. Should we not make our citizenship more permanent and protected from the whims of a temporary majority? My second question is about the Oath of Office. If one does not adhere to the Roman Religion can they affirm or modify the Oath so as not to offend their religion? Thank you for taking the time to write.
>
> Vale,
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: L. Cornelius Sulla
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:19 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
>
>

Scriba Praefecti

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:58:12 -0700

Avete Consul et Omnes,
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land


Salve Consul,

> But, here is a delimma we are facing in NR. Any punishment beyond list
> moderation and exile is impossible because of the Constitution of Nova Roma.
> There is a clause there called the Soverignty clause. It prevents any
> other punishment that would impose restrictions that would impact any
> persons soverignty. Therefore any other punishment would be illegal
> and this will be a problem once we do get land.

Here is the relevant clause:

The right to remain sovereign and secure within one's own home,
person, and property;

Let us consider the punishments that we can impose:

- Loss of citizenship - explicitly allowed by the Constitution.
- Censors' Nota - explicitly allowed by the Constitution.
- Mailing List Censorship.
Only those communications threatening the state, or threatening
"order and stability", may be censored. Reasonable messages
from anyone would still be allowed; thus this is not an effective
punishment for anything other than list disruption.
- Fines.
When a fine has been imposed, the money can no longer be considered
the property of the citizen who must pay the fine; it is the property
of the government, and is a debt like any other. Unless an appeal
is made to a higher authority, the citizen must pay the fine, or face
stricter measures (that should include banishment).
Sulla: Where do you get this reasoning from? It certainly is not the legal norm. If that was the case you would not have many many business dealing with enforcing judgements. Then you have bankruptcy, which is a valid way to get out of paying fines and judgements. Your view on this is not accurate given the trend in the legal field. And, in my statement I am not just talking about fines that go to the state. I am also referring to judgements that would be awarded to a plaintiff.

- Imprisonment.
This would be against our Constitution, as the prisoner would
no longer be "secure within one's home home [and] person"...
but it will be many years before we will need to consider this
option, and it may never occur.

Sulla: True and when we get land, this will have to be something that will have to be considered to be changed, because we all realize we are not creating a Utopia here. There will be crime and we will need law enforcement and a system of justice to deal with it.

Thus, with the ever-present ability to banish scofflaws, our system
is adequate for our needs for the foreseeable future - without having
to dispense with personal sovereignity, which would cause many more
problems than it would solve.

Sulla: Execpt with the fines I agree with you.


> Sulla: Recently a Senator libelled another Senator on the ML

Your opinion - it was never proven libelous. Libel must be both
untrue and damaging, and no competent authority has judged any
recent words here as such.

Sulla: It is libel. According to my resarch and my attorney the burden of proof is on the defendent. I know it is libel.
Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Comitia Curiata Acknowledgement and Confirmation
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:58:41 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

As Lictor of the Comitia Curiata, I hereby acknowledge and confirm the
following new flamines and priests;

Quintus Volcatius Romanus - Flamen Volcanalis Caius Iulius Barcinus
Ciconius - Flamen Furinalis Ambrosius Silvanus Urbius (Virbius) -
Epulones Priest Gaius Modius Ahanasius - Flamen Pomonalis Vopisca Iulia
(Iulia Vopsica) Cocceia - Sacerdotes Palatua Hadrianus Rutilius
Bardicus (Bardulus) - Flamen Cerealis

May their Gods smile upon them and guide them in thier duties.

Additionally and personnally they all have my congratulations and my
Best Wishes for thier future endeavors.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: What about Nova Roma "colleges"? ESL/ESOL
From:	"Numerius Cassius Niger" <menippus@attbi.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:04:10 -0000

Salvete,
I have taught English as a Second/Other language and I am currently
1/2 a course away from being state certified in that subject. I
would be most happy to co-teach the course with you D. Moravia
Aventina, if you would like. I am also currently interested in
teaching a course in rhetoric. I believe I am qualifed to teach that
subject and, of course, would model it after the progymnasmata.
- N. Cassius Niger

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Although this wouldn't be a Roman topic, how about a
course 'English as a
> second language'? Although it is not my current occupation, I
studied to be
> a teacher of English Creative Writing. I would be willing to teach
the
> course. Plus since I have had to learn 3 foreign languages, I
think that I
> have a good idea on how to teach a language course to-native
speakers. And
> late 2003, early 2004 would be good timing for me.
>
> When I first found Nova Roma in the Spring of 1999, there was
literally only
> a handful of non-US Nova Romans. Now, I am thrilled to death to
say that
> there is an active group of Nova Romans in Europe and in the rest
of the
> world. I am just wondering if perhaps the people who need to have
there
> posts translated may want to learn English, but not have the
financial means
> to pay for lessons (or maybe even live too far away to attend
English
> classes).
>
> Just a thought,
> Diana Moravia (but still officially Apollonia) Aventina
> (sorry if I am getting everyone confused!)
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 216
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:00:26 -0000

Marcus Rex,

Would you be willing to recommend some reading material and a few
pointers for reading material for at least an initial "class" on
Roman government? I personally feel we need to develop a "Leadership
Training Course" for our government. This will assist us in being
considered "legitimate" in the near to far future. By us learning
what has made us great, we can look to our future, with footing more
secure.

Let me make myself clear to ALL: I KNOW my idea of a "Nova Roman
College System" is a LONG term project, as well as certification
systems for our future leaders will be a long term project. I tossed
an idea out there, for all to see. We have some truly BRILLIANT
people here (See below for two of them)! WHY do some feel the need to
ATTACK? WHY?!?

Personally, I see the idea of developing "colleges" as a GRAND
OPPORTUNITY to highlight our fellow Roman's writings and skills! We
have people who are researching their PHD's, have completed their
PHD's, master's ect. For now, all I hoped to do was to begin the
dialog of planning, taking our best, develop ideas for curriculum,
and begin the slow process of deciding what we want to include, based
on NOVA ROMAN NEEDS! Then, after we can decide on a solid outline,
then flesh it our with suggested readings, and sllowly, add lecture
notes, then tests, ect.

Let us ADD to each other's knowledge! Let us BEGIN fresh! NO ONE here
is trying to take over someone's place in Nova Roma (at least I know
I am not)! No one is trying to harm anyone!

Have we not learned ANYTHING about human nature in 1,500 years? Let
us not quabble over items of no import! Let us begin to flesh out
ideas, let us look to our future! SO WHAT if it takes us 2, 3, 5, 10
years to develop ACTUAL courses and certifications!

Let us begin a FREINDLY process! When we get CLOSE to FINALIZING our
curriculum, selecting actual instructors, THEN let us argue over
qualifications and certificates! For all I care, if "Joe Banana" from
the deepest parts of the Amazon has a 1940 text book on Roman
building techniques-and wants to provide the source materials (copies
probibly), and suggestions on what to include, that's great!

Friend Romans, I beseech thee...let's FOCUS our energies outward, for
growth, for prosperity, for brotherhood. We have good leaders who
have been here a while, and I thank them for their efforts...for
without them, we would not be here.

Does anyone have web space available where we could begin the process
of adding reference books (Remember...this is an
INITIAL, "brainstorming" event here....no fighting over what to
include!)? This would give us a place where newbies like me who love
Rome, and have a teeny-tiney smatering of knowledge of Rome a good
place where we can find the titles and authors of books we can
acquire. And if you have an outline of what you have seen from an old
class you have taught or been in, drop it on a website too...it too
is a AWESOME oportunity to learn and grow for ALL of us!

In utter Humility,

Publius. T. Rufus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@a...> wrote:
>
> >
> > As for M. Marcius I know he is an attorney, and heard rumors he
is a law professor. I would like to know more about what he taught
and am interested in seeing his curriculum vitae. And I would also
like to know if he teaches in NR the basic subjects he specializes
in.
> >
> > Because experience in a lower level of teaching is not the only
> point I have tried to make. But one should teach in the realm of
> one's specialty.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> Ave et Vale:
>
> Just for the record:
>
> I taught Criminal Law at the University of Vienna for three years
in a position equivalent to Assistant Professor in the American
system (that means it was contract based and involved both teaching
and (pubblished) research). I was also during my time as faculty
member a member of the Historical Law society, which mainly dealt
with Roman and ancient German Law issues. I feel qualified enough to
direct a Roman law study including the review of lessons by
praeceptores before they are published. I left university mainly
because I got an offer outside I could not refuse.
>
> Apart from my academic career at university and my military service
I have pursued a public service career, including: a court clerkship
> involving criminal prosecutorial work; public policy work on
matters such as State subsidies and public research and development
support; board memberships; diplomatic postings overseas.
>
> I am both a specialist in European Law (where I have won the
biggest Europe-wide public competition in Luxemburg) and
International Law as regards International Financial Institutions.
>
> Including my academic degrees I can back all of that up with
> documentation, if there ever were a real need to do it. I will not
do so publicly for the obvious reasons stated in the mainlist policy.
> For any request by you, Luci Corneli Sulla I would, however, charge
> an approximate market rate of 300 Dollars per hour for any
> preparation work necessary. BTW what is your specialty?
>
> Ave et vale
>
> Marcus Marcius Rex

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Introduction & Taxation Question
From:	"Diotima Mortifera Plutona" <diotima@veilofnight.org>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:45:33 -0400

Greetings,

I am a new (as yet unconfirmed) citizen. I just applied yesterday. I am greatly looking forward to being a part of Nova Roma.

I am a Priestess of Hades, and a minister in the Church of Spiritual Humanism. I started formally learning Latin when I was 12, though several years without practice has made me rather rusty. I studied classics in college with almost exclusive emphasis on the Roman Empire, with brief respite to study the Greek Empire.

I have a question regarding the taxation mentioned in a missive today. Because I am new I may not have read the information regarding taxes yet (though I combed the web site quite thoroughly before applying). If that is the case I apologise in advance for asking a question for which the answer is obvious elsewhere.

But while it's fresh on my mind: how does one pay taxes, and what is the rate? I take it that it's not mandatory? When I am more established I would happily give back something to the community (though I also sell Greco-Roman pagan items such as ritual & spellcraft items dedicated to Greco-Roman gods, so I thought perhaps in the future I might be able to apply for the Ordo Equester and thereby give something back to the treasury, as well!).

Amorte!
Diotima Mortifera Plutona


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Land
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:05:56 -0000

L. Sicinius Drusus, VERY well "spoken"! Here here!

P. T. Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> Salve,
> The goal of owning land was set in the Declaration of
> Nova Roma that established our nation. the Declaration
> states
>
> "We recognize the modern political realities which
> make the restoration of such ancient lands to us
> impossible. Therefore we limit our active territorial
> claim to an amount of land at least equal to that held
> by the sovereign state of Vatican City; 108 contiguous
> acres. On this land a world capital for the
> admistration of our culture will be founded in the
> form of a Forum Romanum. The exact site for this New
> Roman governmental and spiritual capital is to be
> determined."
>
> So the plan is to aquire at least 108 acres of land
> for the administration of Nova Roma. This will be our
> forum. It will be Public land, not land for some of
> our citizens to live on. I Have no doubt that some of
> our citizens will desire to aquire land adjacent to,
> or near the forum to live on. This private land near
> the forum is outside the topic of our Public forum,
> and a matter best left up to citizens who wish to
> aquire that land.
>
> For the Forum, we shall need at a minnium a Temple
> dedicated to Iupiter Optimus Maximus, and a site for
> Vesta's hearth. It would be wonderful if we could also
> have indiviual Temples dedicated to the other Roman
> Gods, but I'm afraid we shall have to start with a
> Pantheion for the other Gods. That means we shall need
> to set aside land for at least three buildings to meet
> the needs of the Religio. We may also want to insure
> that some vacant land is availble so that future
> generations can establish Temples to other Gods.
>
> We will need a site for the Senate house (Which also
> will be a Temple). We need a Rostra with open space
> for the comitiae to meet. We also will need a Basilica
> for other public meetings. We also will need some kind
> of Arena where games can be held.
>
> At First these Buildings will have to be modest, but
> the sites for them have to be large enough so that
> future generations will have room to expand them.
>
> As far as style goes, I feel that all buildings in our
> Forum should be built in the classic style. The
> Architecture of private homes near our Forum should be
> entirely up to the citizens who wished to live in
> them.
>
> Because of the nature of Nova Roma, we will have to
> make one concession to the modern world. Internet
> access will have to be avaible at the Public Buildings
> so that citizens who aren't living near the Forum can
> keep in touch with events in the Forum.
>
> --- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@m...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > I know that MONEY will be need to buy land on which
> > we can build. I stated as much in the earlier
> > discussions about the land project. We keep saying
> > not now. But what is the game plan? What is the
> > business plan ?That is all most of us are asking and
> > making suggestions on what might be need to include
> > in the plans if we want to build in twenty or so
> > years. Will New Rome be a modern Roman city or a
> > copy of the ancient City. What if anything will we
> > be taking from the modern world with us? If
> > tomorrow one of us won the Lottery or we found a
> > rich patron (Does anybody know Bill Gates?, just a
> > little joke) would we be any nearer to knowing what
> > we wanted in a city?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Fortuna Favet Fortibus
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: L. Sicinius Drusus
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:16 AM
> > To: Nova-Roma@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
> >
> > Salve,
> > Build it with what?
> > Words won't aquire us a single square foot of land.
> > Wishes won't sastify the tax collecter from whatever
> > Macronation the land is located in. Insurance
> > companies won't accept our hopes as payment for a
> > policy. Building Supply Warehouses won't accept our
> > dreams as payment for materials.
> >
> > There are few people in Nova Roma that want land
> > worse
> > than I do, but simply wanting land, dreaming of
> > land,
> > talking about land, wishing for land and dreaming
> > about land isn't enough. It will take cold hard cash
> > to make our dreams a reality, lots of it.
> >
> > We have to aquire money before we can aquire land,
> > and
> > that will mean higher taxes, it will mean
> > fundraising,
> > it will mean making donations to a land fund.
> >
> > --- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@m...> wrote:
> > > Salve,
> > >
> > > Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND
> > > THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when
> > > we talk about the land project. People live in
> > > cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO
> > > CITIZENS!!!!!
> > >
> > > Vale
> > >
> > > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > > Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
> > > To: Nova Roma
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land
> > >
> > > Salvete Quirites,
> > >
> > > The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
> > > intresting, However given our current finicial
> > > status
> > > even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of
> > > land
> > > to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the
> > costs
> > > involved in owning the land. We would be liable
> > for
> > > taxes on the land and would have to have insurance
> > > to
> > > protect ourselves from liability if someone was
> > > injured on the land. Until the treasury is far
> > > fuller
> > > than it is today land will remain a dream. If you
> > > want
> > > land the first step is finding a means to enrich
> > the
> > > treasury.
> > >
> > > I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
> > > provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to
> > the
> > > point of actually buying the land. There are going
> > > to
> > > be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when
> > they
> > > find that a large portion of the Taxes they have
> > > paid
> > > in the past and will be paying in the future will
> > go
> > > for a plot of land that is so distant that they
> > will
> > > have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No
> > > matter
> > > what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
> > > ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not
> > be
> > > happy about it.
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > >
> > > "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis
> > > telum est."
> > > (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the
> > > killer's hand.)
> > > Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > > Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> > "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis
> > telum est."
> > (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the
> > killer's hand.)
> > Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
> (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
> Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:26:14 -0400

Salve, Thank you for your timely response.
Vale
TGP
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:07 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salve Tiberi Galeri,

> You can answer a couple of questions though. I have noticed that a
> citizen can be striped of their citizenship by a vote of the
> Senate (2/3?) is this correct? In my macro nation (USA ) any naturally
> born Citizen can commit the worst crimes and even be put to death but
> can not have their citizenship taken away.

Here, we must use banishment as punishment because that's all we have.
We cannot compel payment of a fine; we cannot imprison an evildoer,
or kill him. For a community that primarly exists on a communications
network, the only possible punishment is to shun a wrongdoer - through
temporary loss of speaking priviliges, or permanent exclusion in the
form of loss of citizenship.

This is a historical solution, as well - banishment was used by the
ancients as a punishment for crimes.

> My second question is about the Oath of Office. If one does not adhere
> to the Roman Religion can they affirm or modify the Oath so as not to
> offend their religion?

Our law does not allow for changes to the Oath. It was written in
such a way as to require that the magistrate honor our gods, and not
endanger the Religio Romana, even if not a believer or practitioner.
You need swear only to "honor" our Gods - not to believe in them.
We've had Christian and Jewish magistrates, including Consuls,
Censores, and Praetores, who took this oath willingly.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Recommended Reading for Roman Govt. 101
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:00:29 -0700 (PDT)

William Rogers <wlr107@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Would you be willing to recommend some reading
> material and a few pointers for reading material
> for at least an initial "class" on Roman
government?

http://classics.mit.edu

It has a wonderful selection of works by classic
authors, and should get you well grounded in the
basics of Roman government. It also has the advantage
of being free and available online.



=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Introduction & Taxation Question
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:16:12 +0200

Salve Diotima,

Welcome to Nova Roma! Nice to have another religiously inclined female
around. You should alos subscribe to the Religio list.

And don't I know you from another list? If not, then she is one of your
colleagues (also a Priestess of Hades and active in the Church of Spiritual
Humanism).
Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Diotima Mortifera Plutona [mailto:diotima@veilofnight.org]
Verzonden: dinsdag 22 oktober 2002 17:46
Aan: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [Nova-Roma] Introduction & Taxation Question


Greetings,

I am a new (as yet unconfirmed) citizen. I just applied yesterday. I am
greatly looking forward to being a part of Nova Roma.

I am a Priestess of Hades, and a minister in the Church of Spiritual
Humanism. I started formally learning Latin when I was 12, though several
years without practice has made me rather rusty. I studied classics in
college with almost exclusive emphasis on the Roman Empire, with brief
respite to study the Greek Empire.

I have a question regarding the taxation mentioned in a missive today.
Because I am new I may not have read the information regarding taxes yet
(though I combed the web site quite thoroughly before applying). If that is
the case I apologise in advance for asking a question for which the answer
is obvious elsewhere.

But while it's fresh on my mind: how does one pay taxes, and what is the
rate? I take it that it's not mandatory? When I am more established I would
happily give back something to the community (though I also sell Greco-Roman
pagan items such as ritual & spellcraft items dedicated to Greco-Roman gods,
so I thought perhaps in the future I might be able to apply for the Ordo
Equester and thereby give something back to the treasury, as well!).

Amorte!
Diotima Mortifera Plutona


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:53:55 -0700 (PDT)

Re the possibility that people who live nowhere near
the eventual landed site of Nova Roma will resent
paying taxes to support such a site

My feeling is that, when you donate money or goods to
an international charity or non-profit organization,
you don't know who your donation will benefit or where
those people live. But you give because it's the
right thing to do, and because that is the condition
of associating yourself with the charity.

So, for me, it doesn't matter where Nova Roma's land
is located or if I will ever be able to travel there.
I knew when I joined Nova Roma that the goal was to
own land and accept the obligations of land ownership.
Those were the conditions under which I joined. For
me (or anyone) to resent that, just because we might
never be able to go there, would be wrong.

I hope people would have the sense not to resent such
a thing.

Personally, with the taxes in mind, I think it might
be a wise idea to strongly consider purchasing land
outside the United States, where it might be less
expensive to buy and the taxes less of a burden to NR
citizens who are not easily able to afford them.

---
Renata Corva

=====
Chantal
http://www.4dw.net/aerden/theran/theranweyr.html

"Yesterday, it worked.
Today, it is not working.
Windows is like that."



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Introduction & Taxation Question
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:54:32 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Diotima Mortifera,

> I am a new (as yet unconfirmed) citizen. I just applied yesterday.
> I am greatly looking forward to being a part of Nova Roma.

Interesting name! By any chance, are you an admirer of graveyards?
(see www.graveyards.com)

> But while it's fresh on my mind: how does one pay taxes, and what
> is the rate?

As a new citizen, you're classed as "Assidui" right now. The Consuls
of next year will call for payment sometime early next year, with a
payment deadline of the end of February (unless the Senate chooses
to extend it).

Currently, the amount is $12.00 anywhere in the world, but we
expect to reduce this for most countries - citizens of rich
countries like those of North America and Western Europe will
pay an amount near $12.00, while citizens of other countries
will pay much less.

> I take it that it's not mandatory?

Correct; if you choose not to pay, you can remain a citizen, but your
vote will be much weaker.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Gens Pompeia
From:	"Daniel" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:09:08 -0000

Salvete omnes et novissimi cives gentis Pompeiæ.
I´m very glad that our gens Pompeia is growing!. We are 8!!!.
Welcome!!!
Habeatis fortunam optimam!!
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Final of the Ludi Victoria Circenses
From:	"Daniel" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:08:10 -0000

Salvete omnes.
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed very much the recent Ludi
Victoria Circenses.
The final was very emotionally and anxiously intense :-) for me! .
Congratulations Hyacinta Magna and Factio Russata!. You´ve done an
excellent job!.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Factio Veneta
Crux Australis

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Introduction & Taxation Question
From:	"Diotima Mortifera Plutona" <diotima@veilofnight.org>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:36:50 -0400

Salve Marcus, and thank you for your reply!

I am more than an admirer of graveyards, but in a word, yes! :-) I am the New Jersey State Coordinator of "Saving Graves," an organisation dedicated to cemetery preservation. (www.spiritsojourn.com/nj) As a Priestess of Hades burial ground is utterly sacred to me.

re: my name, Diotima is to me not just a reference to The Symposium, though it is certainly that. It's a nickname I espoused some time ago, inspired by the "Diotima film" cryptic, but thrilling result of life-after-death experimentation (www.psisci.force9.co.uk)

Mortifera & Plutona were easy choices, since I am so fond of all things pertaining to my Lord (Hades-Pluto) and his realm! ;-)

Thanks for the response re: taxes as well--$12 / yr certainly seems reasonable to me! Though I can understand the decision to reduce it for certain geographical areas / income demographics.

And Diana, I just realised I replied to your missive from an alternate e-mail out of force of habit, and it therefore may not go through. I simply stated I am the Priestess of Hades to which you refer on the other list. I get around! Nice to see you here as well :-)

Amorte!
Diotima Mortifera Plutona, known to some formally as Rev. Dina Ely ni Sen Nwa Lespir, CSH


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE CHAMPION OF THE FINAL OF THE LUDI VICTORIA CIRCENSES!...
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 00:28:48 +0200

Salve Quirites!

This is the winner of Ludi Victoria Cultural Award. It is a very good
story, sadly enough there were no competitors. So "Bedtime story"
wins on "walk over".

Congratulations Illustrus Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix! You continue
to be a supreme fighter for Culture in Nova Roma! Thank You for this
good story!

This story will soon be found on the Cohors Aedilis CFQ site:
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/cultural_award.htm


> BEDTIME STORY.
>
> Once upon a time there was a small city next to a
> river in ancient Italy. This town was Rome. It was a
> calm and peaceful town until their neighbours came and
> tried to conquer them. But the mighty Romans resisted.
> They fought many harsh battles, against Aequi and
> Volsci, Etruscans, Latins and Samnites. One day though
> those Romans got into war with a strong adversary:
> Carthage. The Phoenician warlike generals were feared
> in Rome, and the greatest among them was the brilliant
> Hannibal Barca. He led his armies over land through
> Spain and the south of France, over the river Rhône,
> and on an epic march over the Alps into Italy. Roman
> consular armies were sent out, but they failed to stop
> him. He invaded Italy and devastated the countryside.
> Luckily he hesitated to attack the Eternal City, Rome.
> And when trouble came to his own city Carthage, he was
> ordered to return home. But a strong and powerful
> Roman army followed him, commanded by the smart and
> legendary general Publius Cornelius Scipio, from a
> famous family in Roman nobility.
>
> The Roman legions and the Carthaginian army met near
> the town Zama, in Northern Africa not far from
> Carthage. On the Carthaginian side, 40000 men stood
> against 40000 Romans, who were supported by the
> magnificent Numidian cavalry led by their king
> Masinissa. The two generals built their battle line:
> Hannibal set up his infantry in three lines, and the
> elephants in front of them, with his cavalry on both
> wings. The Roman general Scipio abandoned the regular
> legion formation and put his infantry into columns, to
> let the elephants pass in between. On the right he put
> Masinissa and his Numidian cavalry, on the left the
> Italian cavalry commanded by Laelius.
>
> Then the trumpets were blown and the armies both
> screamed their war cries. The opposed Numidian cavalry
> fought some skirmishes, and then Hannibal ordered his
> feared elephants to move forward. Scipio answered this
> attack with a marvellous plan: he ordered all his
> trumpets and horns along the line to give a blast as
> loud as possible. The elephants panicked, turned
> around and crashed back into their own Numidian
> cavalry! And the elephants who did not turn around
> passed through the gaps in the Roman battle line, just
> like Scipio had in mind. The Roman cavalry, superior
> and more numerous, drove away the Carthaginian cavalry
> on both wings and pursued them. Hereafter the two
> infantry lines advanced. They encountered each other
> with a mighty clash! The ground shook when they met.
> After a while many corpses were shattered along the
> battlefield, and the earth coloured red with blood.
>
> And then the Romans drove back the first and second
> Carthaginian line, and those fled to the flanks.
> Hannibal's third line, the Italian veterans, levelled
> their spears and awaited the strong Roman battle line.
> Scipio reformed his troops and then they attacked. The
> two lines charged each other with the greatest fire
> and fury. Being nearly equal in numbers, spirit,
> courage and arms, the battle was for a long time
> undecided, the men in their obstinate valour falling
> dead without giving way a step. But then the Roman
> cavalry returned, and Laelius and Masinissa attacked
> the Carthaginian infantry in the rear. The greater
> part of Hannibal's men were cut down in their ranks,
> while of those who attempted to flee, very few escaped
> with their life.
>
> Thus ended the battle at Zama, won by one of the
> greatest and most brilliant Roman generals, Publius
> Cornelius Scipio, now called 'Africanus'. His superb
> tactics had won from Hannibal's mastery.
>
> ----------
>
> Vale bene!
>
> =====
> Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
> ----------
> Aedilis Plebis
> Coryphaeus Sodalitatis Musarum
> Dominus Factionis Russatae
> Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> ***HORUM OMNIUM FORTISSIME SUNT BELGAE***

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Nova-Roma]_Vesta?=
From:	"=?utf-8?Q?sa-mann@libero.it?=" <sa-mann@libero.it>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 00:52:21 +0200

> Salvete Quirites,
>
> In 1148 AUC (396 CE) Vesta's hearth grew cold. 14
> years later Roma was sacked by Barbarians. A Second
> sack by Barbarians followed in 1207 AUC (455 CE) and a
> third Barbarian army conqured the city in 1228 AUC
> (476 CE) overthrowing the Emperor and placing the City
> under the Rule of a Barbarian King.
>
> Within 80 years of Veta's fire going out a city that
> hadn't had a foriegn army in 800 years had three armys
> conquerer it, the last ending self rule by the Romans.
>
> We are now attempting to reestablish the civilization
> that was snuffed out by the Barbarians in the 13th
> Century AUC, but do we have any more hope of
> prospering without the protection of Vesta than our
> ancesters did 800 years ago?
>
> If we want Nova Roma to prosper Vesta's hearth has to
> be relit, and kept burning.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
Spectatus Sicinius Drusus

No, this is not possible at all.
We must keep in mind that Roman cults were of two precise kinds. There
were the private rituals and the ones of the State.
The fire of Vesta has been estinguished in 382 ad after Emperor
Gratianus abolished the State's religion and rituals. From this moment
Rome as a state ceased to exist, and it doesn't now. Nonsense would be
to light again Vesta's fire; and, who would know how to do it?
Nova Roma is not a state based in Rome, for the moment we must be
contented with private rituals.The Gods will not avoid helping us. For
the rest we must wait for the State to be built again. In Rome.

Reverenter

Gallus Solaris Alexander

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] re: Name & Graves
From:	"Diotima Mortifera Plutona" <diotima@veilofnight.org>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:40:43 -0400

Salve Marcus Octavius, and thank you for your reply!

I am more than an admirer of graveyards, but in a word, yes! :-) I am the New Jersey State Coordinator of "Saving Graves," an organisation dedicated to cemetery preservation. (www.spiritsojourn.com/nj) As a Priestess of Hades burial ground is utterly sacred to me. Thank you for providing the link to graveyards.com--looks like a fascinating book. I read another book by Ursula Bielski, I believe--about Chicago Haunts. I will be sure to pick this one up as well!! Though I'm in the NYC area, the haunted history of the Windy City has always fascinated me.

re: my name, Diotima is to me not just a reference to The Symposium, though it is certainly that. It's a nickname I espoused some time ago, inspired by the "Diotima film" cryptic, but thrilling result of life-after-death experimentation (www.psisci.force9.co.uk)

Mortifera & Plutona were easy choices, since I am so fond of all things pertaining to my Lord (Hades-Pluto) and his realm! ;-)

Thanks for the response re: taxes as well--$12 / yr certainly seems reasonable to me! Though I can understand the decision to reduce it for certain geographical areas / income demographics.

And Diana, I just realised I replied to your missive from an alternate e-mail out of force of habit, and it therefore may not go through. I simply stated I am the Priestess of Hades (on the other list) to which you refer. I get around! Hades leads me, pokes and prods a bit, and I follow. I feel every discovery I make in cyberspace is destined! Nice to see you here as well :-)

Amorte!
Diotima Mortifera Plutona, known to some formally as Rev. Dina Ely ni Sen Nwa Lespir, CSH


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Oops!
From:	"Diotima Mortifera Plutona" <diotima@veilofnight.org>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:42:06 -0400

Terribly sorry for recent doubles on my Names & Graves e-mail--blame it on Outlook ;-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Recommended Reading for Roman Govt. 101
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:52:54 -0000

thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou!!!!!!!



THANK YOU! :-) NICE website! Whoo hoo! :-)

Publius T. Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<equitius_marinus@y...> wrote:
> William Rogers <wlr107@y...> wrote:
>
> > Would you be willing to recommend some reading
> > material and a few pointers for reading material
> > for at least an initial "class" on Roman
> government?
>
> http://classics.mit.edu
>
> It has a wonderful selection of works by classic
> authors, and should get you well grounded in the
> basics of Roman government. It also has the advantage
> of being free and available online.
>
>
>
> =====
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
>
> Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso
Fabius Quintilianus
>
> The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/