Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: I too am new
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:09:56 -0500

"Maybe we could get him to publish us a cookbood we could purchase!"

maybe we could help him publish the cookbook, and then he could donate some of the proceeds to Nova Roma!!!!!!

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Circe Aeaea
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:53 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: I too am new

Salve Publius Tarquitius Rufus

>>If you are interested in Roman daily life and Roman food, I HIGHLY
recommend contacting Caius Tarquitius Saturninus. I had the honor of
speaking to him "live" last night, and he has OVER 550 reciepes of
Roman dishes! :-)
Maybe we could get him to publish us a cookbood we could purchase!<<

Now that sounds like a good idea.

>>I have always found frescoes beautiful, and most difficult. I would
love to learn how they did it...oh! I just had an idea....read the
board! :-) (TRhanks for the awesome idea!)<<

Having recently gone through 3 books which show wall paintings from Pompeii,
Herculaneum and Stabiae (I think that was it), I'm not sure that I was
correct in calling them 'frescoes' and not just 'domestic wall paintings'
however they do _look_ like frescoes and Gods do I just love them. I really
like the painting style, obviously they've probably faded over the
centuries. What about the strange 'Trompe L'eoil' (I think thats how you
spell it), illusory-style, painted images on domestic walls (in Pompeii
anyway) of architecture or interiors with masks and shelves with things on
them also, all painted very realistically. I think they look extremely
lovely... Ah well I am an artist myself of mural-sized tapestries
(www.victapestry.com.au) But I don't think I could hope to re-capture this
sort of 'fresco' work. Mosaics, yes.

>>I have been reading the boards here just around a week. There are
some truly brilliant people here, and I'm POSITIVE you will find a
wonderful friend (or several) here!
Vale,
Publius Tarquitius Rufus<<

Umm, call me a computer illiterate, but whats a board exactly?

And Salve to Galerius Peregrinator who said...

>> We're happy you joined us. As to the magic Hecate is one of our deities.
Welcome to Novaroma.
Galerius Peregrinator.<<

I am curently reading a fascinating book called "Hekate in Ancient Greek
Religion" by Robert Von Rudloff (yes I know its Greek and not Roman) and he
traces her form and function _before_ she was a Witches' Goddess which
apparently was more of a phenomena of Roman literature... though she was
associated with ghosts etc by Classical (I think it was) times. I plan to
follow this book with "Hekate Soteira" by Sarah Iles Johnston about the role
of Hekate in the Chaldean Oracles, and then "The Rotting Goddess" by Jacob
Rabonowitz which apparently traces the 'form' of the Witch from
antiquity.... It sure broadens one's horizon from the rather erroneous
neo-pagan idea that Hekate was a 'crone' goddess.

Salve also C. Minucius Hadrianus

You said...
>>If you are interested in magic, you should get a copy of Arcana Mundi:
Magic and the Occult in the Greek and Roman World by Prof. Geog Luck.
Excellent book!<<

Yes I've just bought it actually. Looks fab. Georg Luck also wrote a chapter
for the Athlone History of Witchcraft and Magic: Ancient Greece and Rome".

Salve Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

You said,
>>Welcome to Nova Roma, Tullia Sentia.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix<<

Thank you.

All this typing has got me rather exhausted..

Vale

Tullia.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:04:39 -0500

Salve

Actually, in America, if you receive a felony conviction, you lose your right to vote, to own a weapon, to sit on juries, and to run for office. You can still pay taxes, however. You essentially become a second class useless non citizen, and might as well be banished.

Vale

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salve, Honored Consul

I have been doing just as you have suggested and for the past month or two I have been reading posts that are in the archives, including the proceedings of the Senate. Very interesting to say the least. I have noticed that citizens take the postings very seriously.

However If we can not discuss any item of interest to the Citizens of Nova Roma on these pages, without starting a fight over the internet, how can we expect to BUILD A CITY ON A HILL (or seven) and expect it to last?

You can answer a couple of questions though. I have noticed that a citizen can be striped of their citizenship by a vote of the Senate (2/3?) is this correct? In my macro nation (USA ) any naturally born Citizen can commit the worst crimes and even be put to death but can not have their citizenship taken away. Naturalized citizens ,if the lied on the application can have it revoked, but a naturally born citizen has to renounce their citizenship, the government can not strip them of it. Should we not make our citizenship more permanent and protected from the whims of a temporary majority? My second question is about the Oath of Office. If one does not adhere to the Roman Religion can they affirm or modify the Oath so as not to offend their religion? Thank you for taking the time to write.

Vale,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:19 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Avete Tiberius Galerius,

I truly enjoy hearing the posts of new citizens. Its wonderful that we have such unjaded opinions in NR. But, I also think that many of our newer citizens should review some of the archieves to see just how hostile Nova Roma over other issues. The land debate has the potential to be extremely devisive.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salve,

Has any body ever heard the saying " BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME" maybe we should think of this when we talk about the land project. People live in cities because they are there. NO CITY, NO CITIZENS!!!!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:30 AM
To: Nova Roma
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salvete Quirites,

The recent discussions on aquiring land have been
intresting, However given our current finicial status
even if someone was willing to donate a parcel of land
to Nova Roma we wouldn't be able to afford the costs
involved in owning the land. We would be liable for
taxes on the land and would have to have insurance to
protect ourselves from liability if someone was
injured on the land. Until the treasury is far fuller
than it is today land will remain a dream. If you want
land the first step is finding a means to enrich the
treasury.

I Also fear that the actual purchase of land will
provoke a very nasty Forum battle once we get to the
point of actually buying the land. There are going to
be some very unhappy citizens in Nova Roma when they
find that a large portion of the Taxes they have paid
in the past and will be paying in the future will go
for a plot of land that is so distant that they will
have little if any hope of ever visiting it. No matter
what site is selected, it will involve crossing an
ocean for many of our citizens, and they will not be
happy about it.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:50:03 -0500

Salve Citizens

"My feeling is that, when you donate money or goods to
an international charity or non-profit organization,
you don't know who your donation will benefit or where
those people live. But you give because it's the
right thing to do, and because that is the condition
of associating yourself with the charity."

I could not disagree more. Charities that help people unseen are one thing. But we are supposed to be recreating the greatest civilization on Earth. One of the functions of our land project, I hope, is to generate more revenue, and interest in our society, once it is built. Plus, more citizens can enjoy it. The best way to do that is to place our land and structure closest to where most of the citizens live.

Therefore, I ask this question again, where do most of us Romans live? Thats where we should build.

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chantal G. Whittington
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:53 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land

Re the possibility that people who live nowhere near
the eventual landed site of Nova Roma will resent
paying taxes to support such a site

My feeling is that, when you donate money or goods to
an international charity or non-profit organization,
you don't know who your donation will benefit or where
those people live. But you give because it's the
right thing to do, and because that is the condition
of associating yourself with the charity.

So, for me, it doesn't matter where Nova Roma's land
is located or if I will ever be able to travel there.
I knew when I joined Nova Roma that the goal was to
own land and accept the obligations of land ownership.
Those were the conditions under which I joined. For
me (or anyone) to resent that, just because we might
never be able to go there, would be wrong.

I hope people would have the sense not to resent such
a thing.

Personally, with the taxes in mind, I think it might
be a wise idea to strongly consider purchasing land
outside the United States, where it might be less
expensive to buy and the taxes less of a burden to NR
citizens who are not easily able to afford them.

---
Renata Corva

=====
Chantal
http://www.4dw.net/aerden/theran/theranweyr.html

"Yesterday, it worked.
Today, it is not working.
Windows is like that."

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Land
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 01:20:10 -0000

Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@k...>
wrote:
> Salve
>
> Actually, in America, if you receive a felony conviction, you lose
your right to vote, to own a weapon, to sit on juries, and to run
for office. You can still pay taxes, however. You essentially become
a second class useless non citizen, and might as well be banished.
>

Actually that varies from State to State. But one thing I know for
certain is that in no matter the state, one never loses their "right
to be taxed" whether a citizen or resident alien.

Vale,

Quintus Cassius Calvus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Citizenship / religious oath
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 01:26:06 -0000

Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> wrote:
> Salve, Thank you. In the USA you can lose it but it needs to an
>avert act before the government can act.

>From what I understand, since the subject came up in the news in
relation to the "American Taliban" case, if one is a "natural born
citizen" one has to formally renounce ones US citizenship through a
tedious legal process. Though in Roman antiquity stripping a person
of their Roman citizenship and banishment from having fire within
(insert the number of miles here) from Rome was considered a more
disgraceful punishment than being executed.

Vale,

Quintus Cassius Calvus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:25:41 -0500

I think Canada is out, since only Canadian citizens can own Canadian land. Therefore, true ownership would lie with whatever citizen of Canada that fronted the purchase. That just won't do. Plus, Canadians put gravy on their french fries.

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salvete Omnes,

I am very pleased to read how much the citizens of Nova Roma are getting
involved in the NRLandProject. It is a goal worth the effort and everybody
hopes that we will achieve it.
However, it is preferable to check the opportunities at first in terms of
fiscality, land taxes, insurances ... This prior work that will be done by my
office will definitely limit our choices. We can safely guess that when all
sorts of international legislations will be checked, only a few possibilities
will emerge. This task will take a very long time..
Of course, we can always talk about what we will build on the purchased land!!

Valete,

> I know that MONEY will be need to buy land on which we can build. I stated
> as much in the earlier discussions about the land project. We keep saying not
> now. But what is the game plan? What is the business plan ?That is all most
> of us are asking and making suggestions on what might be need to include in
> the plans if we want to build in twenty or so years. Will New Rome be a
> modern Roman city or a copy of the ancient City. What if anything will we be
> taking from the modern world with us? If tomorrow one of us won the Lottery
> or we found a rich patron (Does anybody know Bill Gates?, just a little joke)
> would we be any nearer to knowing what we wanted in a city?

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through MailService.MS -> http://www.MailService.ms


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:31:20 -0500

$12 is ridiculously low

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova Roma
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 11:32 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Taxes

Salvete Quirites,

I Was pleased to see that my idea for indexing taxes
by National income will be considered by the Senate,
but there are still problems with the plan.

As long as there was a flat rate for all nations there
might have been an excuse for a 12 US$ tax rate, but
if we are going to index taxes by national income,
then the rates should be higher. I Can't even take my
wife to a decent movie for $12.00, and I certainly
hope that most of our citizens value a year in Nova
Roma more than a couple of hours watching a movie. If
we want to progress beyond an internet group we will
need money, and it will take a painfully long time for
our funds to build up if we limit ourselves to 12
Dollars or less per citizen per year.

The Rate should at least provide the treasury with 25
US$ per year for each citizen in the USA, or a
comprable ammount after indexing for citizens residing
outside the USA.

In Antiquita when taxes were acessed it was based on a
citizens Census wealth. As your Census wealth rose
your taxes rose along with your Class. We would be
following the ancient example if we charged citizens
in the higher classes a higher tax to go along with
thier greater voting power in the Centuries.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Circenses Factiones
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 03:41:38 +0200

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

The website of our loved Factione sare all updated within the latest news,
the winners, the hit-parade and the list of the new players.
Write a message in the forum at
http://pub41.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=3454257464&cpv=1
and visit the following websites at:

ALBATA: http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/factio/albata/
PRAESINA: http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/factio/praesina/
RUSSATA: http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/factio/russata/
VENETA: http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/factio/veneta/

I remember you that the subscription for the Maximi Ludi Circenses are open.
The following players are invited to send their own subscriptions to
sacro_barese_impero@libero.it:

T. Arminius Hyacinthus
M. Minucius Rufus
C. Flavius Diocletianus
M. Villus Limitanus
J. Sempronia Magna
G. Cornelius Ahenobarbus
L. Pompeius Octavianus
M. Octavius Solaris
A. Solaris Draco
S. Apollonius Draco
T. Labienus Fortunatus
M. S. Curio Britannicus

Read the regulations at
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/mvc.htm

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:40:10 -0500 (CDT)

> I think Canada is out, since only Canadian citizens can own Canadian
> land. Therefore, true ownership would lie with whatever citizen of
> Canada that fronted the purchase. That just won't do. Plus,
> Canadians put gravy on their french fries.

But gravy on french fries is *good*.

mmm, poutine...

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New Member!
From:	caiustarquitius@gmx.de
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:03:11 +0200 (MEST)

I am proud to have a new member in my Family!
Welcome, Publius Tarquitius Rufus!
Roma Eterna!

Caius Tarquitius Saturninus.
Paterfamilias.

--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f�r 1 ct/ Min. surfen!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re:_[Nova-Roma]_Vesta
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:26:10 -0700 (PDT)

--- "sa-mann@libero.it" <sa-mann@libero.it> wrote:

>
> No, this is not possible at all.
> We must keep in mind that Roman cults were of two
> precise kinds. There
> were the private rituals and the ones of the State.
> The fire of Vesta has been estinguished in 382 ad
> after Emperor
> Gratianus abolished the State's religion and
> rituals. From this moment
> Rome as a state ceased to exist, and it doesn't now.

DRUSUS: The Nation of Nova Roma exists, and has
existed for 5 years.

> Nonsense would be
> to light again Vesta's fire; and, who would know how
> to do it?

DRUSUS: Vesta's fire was relit each year on the
Kalends of March. According to Plutarch's life of Numa
the fire was lit with a convex mirror capturing the
rays of the Sun.

> Nova Roma is not a state based in Rome, for the
> moment we must be
> contented with private rituals.The Gods will not
> avoid helping us. For
> the rest we must wait for the State to be built
> again. In Rome.

I Can think of few things that would please me more
than to see the Forum Romana restored to it's ancient
form, and to have Vesta's fire relit at her ancient
hearth, but I am a realist, and see no chance of this
happening in my lifetime or even the lifetime of my
grandchildren.

Our goal is to have a Nova Roman Forum as the center
of a new Roma. It would be wonderful if we could
locate our forum somewhere in Roma, however the cost
of buying 108 acres in Roma or any other major city
will remain beyond our means for generations.

We Shall have to emulate Romulus and found the City of
Nova Roma in an unsettled location.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Land
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 04:41:45 -0000

Salve Gai,

Just a few points. You can certainly own land in Canada as a
foreigner. Half of the South shore, a resort area in Nova Scotia
where I grew up is owned by Americans and Europeans. Much realestate
in British Columbian Vancouver area is owned by people from Hong Kong
and the Pacific Rim. There are no problems of buying land that I know
of. Summers here are warm to hot. Just the Winters are cold but no
worse than the American North East or north west which gets more snow
than we do. Still only the more stoic Marcus Aurelius type of Nova
Romans would best survive here. In Mexico you can own land as a
foreigner but no more than a condo nowadays if you live within 60 km
of the coasts. Beyond that you are ok. I thought of North America
since it is cheaper than Europe; still love to see some land in the
Mediterranean area since it is the cradle of our civilization.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

-- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@k...>
wrote:
> I think Canada is out, since only Canadian citizens can own
Canadian land. Therefore, true ownership would lie with whatever
citizen of Canada that fronted the purchase. That just won't do.
Plus, Canadians put gravy on their french fries.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
> 417 East 13th Street
> Kansas City, Missouri 64106
> (816).471.2111
> (816).510.0072(cell)
> (816).471.8412(Fax)
> The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney
privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of
the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to
deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact
information in the "reply to" field above and return the original
message to the sender. Thank you.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I am very pleased to read how much the citizens of Nova Roma are
getting
> involved in the NRLandProject. It is a goal worth the effort and
everybody
> hopes that we will achieve it.
> However, it is preferable to check the opportunities at first in
terms of
> fiscality, land taxes, insurances ... This prior work that will
be done by my
> office will definitely limit our choices. We can safely guess
that when all
> sorts of international legislations will be checked, only a few
possibilities
> will emerge. This task will take a very long time..
> Of course, we can always talk about what we will build on the
purchased land!!
>
> Valete,
>
> > I know that MONEY will be need to buy land on which we can
build. I stated
> > as much in the earlier discussions about the land project. We
keep saying not
> > now. But what is the game plan? What is the business plan ?
That is all most
> > of us are asking and making suggestions on what might be need
to include in
> > the plans if we want to build in twenty or so years. Will New
Rome be a
> > modern Roman city or a copy of the ancient City. What if
anything will we be
> > taking from the modern world with us? If tomorrow one of us
won the Lottery
> > or we found a rich patron (Does anybody know Bill Gates?, just
a little joke)
> > would we be any nearer to knowing what we wanted in a city?
>
>
> --
> Sextus Apollonius Scipio
>
> Propraetor Galliae
> Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
> Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
> Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
> NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
> French Translator
>
> -------------------------------------------------
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http://www.MailService.ms
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Confirmation of New Flamines and Priests
From:	"deciusiunius" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:40:01 -0000

Salvete

As Lictor of the Comitia Curiata, I hereby acknowledge and confirm the
following new flamines and priests.

Quintus Volcatius Romanus - Flamen Volcanalis
Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius - Flamen Furinalis
Ambrosius Silvanius Urbius - Epulones Priest
Gaius Modius Athanasius - Flamen Pomonalis
Vopisca Iulia Cocceia - Sacerdotes Palatua
Hadrianus Rutilius Bardicus - Flamen Cerealis

In Service to Rome,

Decius Iunius Palladius,
Lictor, Senator


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Vesta
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:45:31 EDT

In a message dated 10/22/02 3:55:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
sa-mann@libero.it writes:

> Nonsense would be
> to light again Vesta's fire; and, who would know how to do it?
> Nova Roma is not a state based in Rome, for the moment we must be
> contented with private rituals.

Actually Ovidius tells of the ritual, in one of his works. And we once had a
sacred flame being tended by our first Virgo Maxima but alas she let the
flame die out. I believe our civil war started right after that.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Land
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 02:49:47 -0700 (PDT)

--- Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> wrote:

> Summers here are warm to hot. Just the Winters
> are cold but no
> worse than the American North East or north west
> which gets more snow
> than we do. Still only the more stoic Marcus
> Aurelius type of Nova
> Romans would best survive here.

Climate is something that would have to be considered
when we get around to purchasing land. In many parts
of North America and Europe it simply isn't possible
to wear a Toga outside during a considerable portion
of the year.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The Academia: Sulla's comments
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:50:58 -0000

Salvete quirites; specialiter consul Sulla.

I have just read your first message about the Academia Thules, in
which you state that the praeceptores (teachers) of the Academia are
not professional teachers.

I just wanted to point out a few facts:

* Praeceptor Latini: Claudius Salix Davianus; university professor.
* Praeceptor Historiae: Gnaeus Salix Galaicus; professional historian.
* Praeceptor Militaris: Marcus Minucius Audens; experience as
military instructor.
* Praeceptor Legis: Marcus Marcius Rex; he has spoken for himself.

As you can see, about an 80% of the teachers of the Academia *do*
have experience in professional teaching. So I would say that your
statement was incorrect.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 01:51:28 +0100 (BST)

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

>The goal of owning land was set in the Declaration of
> Nova Roma that established our nation. the Declaration
> states
>
> "We recognize the modern political realities which
> make the restoration of such ancient lands to us
> impossible. Therefore we limit our active territorial
> claim to an amount of land at least equal to that held
> by the sovereign state of Vatican City; 108 contiguous
> acres. On this land a world capital for the
> admistration of our culture will be founded in the
> form of a Forum Romanum. The exact site for this New
> Roman governmental and spiritual capital is to be
> determined."

If I may be forgiven for saying so, and I must stress that I in no way wish to criticize the Declaration, but does anyone else feel that 108 acres would make an unusually large forum by Roman standards? Trajan's Forum, the largest forum the Romans ever built, was 185 metres by 310 metres (about 202 yards by 339 yards), or about 14 acres. 108 acres could surely accommodate a city, not just a forum.

Or have I misunderstood the Declaration? Is the word 'forum' here being used to mean something other than what the Romans meant by it, i.e. a public / market square? Or perhaps when it says the capital will be 'in the form of a Forum Romanum' it isn't referring to the type of space at all, but simply stating that the area will be called the Forum Romanum?

I'd be grateful if someone better-placed than I to interpret state documents like this could ease my confusion.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	tekwkp@attbi.com
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 01:12:25 +0000

Salve,

It seems North America, or that's what I gather. A
difficult 'call', land wise. Sort of off the point, but
being an amateur archaelogist, having visited pre-
Columbian sites in Mexico and south to Peru, I am sorry
at least one ancient Roman site was not reclaimed by
jungle. Terrain was not an option. Wanton destruction
by 'conquering' nations was another matter in European
countries, etc. The ancient civilzations in Meso America
are for us, a visual feast to behold. A visitor can't
help but feel in awe, even knowing those civilzations
were very much into ritual sacrifices. This, that, the
other. So many sites yet to be discovered in the
Yucatan, Belize, etc. "Amazing".

Valete,

L. Corenlius Drusus
> Salve Citizens
>
> "My feeling is that, when you donate money or goods to
> an international charity or non-profit organization,
> you don't know who your donation will benefit or where
> those people live. But you give because it's the
> right thing to do, and because that is the condition
> of associating yourself with the charity."
>
> I could not disagree more. Charities that help people unseen are one thing. But
> we are supposed to be recreating the greatest civilization on Earth. One of the
> functions of our land project, I hope, is to generate more revenue, and interest
> in our society, once it is built. Plus, more citizens can enjoy it. The best way
> to do that is to place our land and structure closest to where most of the
> citizens live.
>
> Therefore, I ask this question again, where do most of us Romans live? Thats
> where we should build.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
> 417 East 13th Street
> Kansas City, Missouri 64106
> (816).471.2111
> (816).510.0072(cell)
> (816).471.8412(Fax)
> The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and
> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity
> named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the
> employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
> in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information
> in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender.
> Thank you.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chantal G. Whittington
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:53 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
>
> Re the possibility that people who live nowhere near
> the eventual landed site of Nova Roma will resent
> paying taxes to support such a site
>
> My feeling is that, when you donate money or goods to
> an international charity or non-profit organization,
> you don't know who your donation will benefit or where
> those people live. But you give because it's the
> right thing to do, and because that is the condition
> of associating yourself with the charity.
>
> So, for me, it doesn't matter where Nova Roma's land
> is located or if I will ever be able to travel there.
> I knew when I joined Nova Roma that the goal was to
> own land and accept the obligations of land ownership.
> Those were the conditions under which I joined. For
> me (or anyone) to resent that, just because we might
> never be able to go there, would be wrong.
>
> I hope people would have the sense not to resent such
> a thing.
>
> Personally, with the taxes in mind, I think it might
> be a wise idea to strongly consider purchasing land
> outside the United States, where it might be less
> expensive to buy and the taxes less of a burden to NR
> citizens who are not easily able to afford them.
>
> ---
> Renata Corva
>
> =====
> Chantal
> http://www.4dw.net/aerden/theran/theranweyr.html
>
> "Yesterday, it worked.
> Today, it is not working.
> Windows is like that."
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Open letter to Praetors
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 02:44:23 +0100 (BST)

An open letter to the Praetors:

Greetings,

Only with considerable reluctance am I bringing up the nasty issue of potentially libellous statements made on the main list. It is not the content of any allegedly or actually libellous statement that concerns me, nor have I any wish to state an opinion on the accuracy of anything that anyone has said, as I have no knowledge of such things. My concern is this: recently, when the subject was last aired, a Praetor pronounced the following ruling:

> One is 'not' free to make suggestive remarks about the
> competance of
> another's policies, character, etc. based on 'incomplete
> truths', no
> written evidence, or other halfspinnings which obscure the > past with
> the present, rendering said written offering a subject of
> potential libel,previously published or not. Legally, a
> false statement has
> been publically asserted, adversely affecting someone
> else.

This ruling was, I believe, made in order to protect members of the list from offence and to protect the Nova Roma organization from potential legal difficulties, as it is therefore important that it be adhered to, if it is to be a useful policy. I believe that at least one individual has been censured for infringing this policy, though I don't assert this as fact.

To specifics: a list member recently posted a message containing the following statement: "Recently a Senator libelled another Senator on the ML". Shortly thereafter another statement was made, in response to the question of whether this statement was justified: "It is libel. According to my resarch and my attorney the burden of
proof is on the defendent. I know it is libel."

I do not know, nor do I greatly care, whether these statements are true or not. However, there is clearly disagreement over whether they are true, and it is also quite possible that they would be damaging to the standing of the person against whom the accusation is made. A statement which is untrue and damaging to a person's standing is generally held to be libellous, and therefore a statement which may be untrue and which may damage a person's standing is presumably to be defined as a potentially libellous statement, and therefore to fall under the ruling quoted above, where it refers to "a subject of potential libel".

Therefore I argue that the two statements, "Recently a Senator libelled another Senator on the ML" and "It is libel... I know it is libel.", should be considered to fall under the heading "a subject of potential libel", and I consequently request that the Praetors rule these statements out of order.

I should like to state once more that I make this request out of no animosity to anyone, and from a position of some neutrality, as I have corresponded briefly and entirely amicably with both the person who made these remarks and the person to whom I believe the remarks refer. I act out of a desire that the rules laid down by magistrates should be seen to bind everyone equally and fairly, and that the Nova Roma organization be protected against legal action. I write this as an open letter for the first of those two reasons.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Name & Graves
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:19:48 -0000

Salve Diotima,

>I get around!
Me too:-)
But Nova Roma and my Pagan Federation work is where my heart is :-)

> Mortifera & Plutona were easy choices,
I like your name too. Kind of depressing sounding and romantic at the
same time (I'm weird, I know...) but I didn't think that we had a
Gens Mortifera.

Vale!
Diana Moravia Aventina
(officially back to my original Gens of 1999 :-))))


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Moderation of List
From:	"M. Flavius Aurelius" <marcus.flavius@bigpond.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:30:48 +1000

Is this list moderated or not?

I have found that some of my comments, when posted in relation to a recent
comment, do not appear for days, making it difficult to seek answers for
queries related to specific things raised in email messages.

If some are moderated and some not, then can I ask for clarification as to
what the criteria are?

Thankyou

Marcus Flavius Aurelius
Durovernium, Australia Orientalis Superior
marcus.flavius@bigpond.com
ICQ: 4895187

Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New Member!
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:19:45 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., caiustarquitius@g... wrote:
> I am proud to have a new member in my Family!
> Welcome, Publius Tarquitius Rufus!
> Roma Eterna!
>
> Caius Tarquitius Saturninus.
> Paterfamilias.
>
> --
> +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
> NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f�r 1 ct/ Min. surfen!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caius Tarquitius Saturninus,

I humbly thank you for accepting me into your Gens. I am SO very
fortunate to have my pater so close....even to be able to out to
dinner! And folks...he can cook in the Roman style! Whoo Hoo! :-)
SSSSOOOOO....I personally recommend joining us Tarquiti - our pater
can cook! AWESOME! :-)

I'm just thankful he's so close, and so knowledgeable about Rome, and
doesn't mind lots of questions! :-)

Please take care, and I shall see you on Friday!

Publius Tarquitius Rufus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Land
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:28:21 -0000

Quintus, et all,

I was speaking with Caius Tarquitius last night, and he made a very
good point; in many areas of Italy, Albania, Greece, and other
southern european macronations there is good land at a very low
price. He explained a good way to generate income utilizing (at least
initially) a "Roman" style "bed and breakfast/resort" concept to
generate cashflow, and purchase more land.

While we all agree we will not get land soon (unless someone knows
someone who will donate!), it IS good to look at varying ideas,
plans, concerns...it will keep us idealists (like me) focused on some
of the realities! :-)

While not very knowledgeable n ancient Roman religions (I am a former
Mormon, now Roman Catholic), If we can find reliable information on
the ceremonies, I honestly believe the Leader of the Nova-Roma
religions should make the call on the flame....this person knows what
is possible, not me! Maybe it's time to allow our priests to show
more outward signs of ther duties, if at all possible. Just a humble
opinion.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@d...> wrote:
>
> > Summers here are warm to hot. Just the Winters
> > are cold but no
> > worse than the American North East or north west
> > which gets more snow
> > than we do. Still only the more stoic Marcus
> > Aurelius type of Nova
> > Romans would best survive here.
>
> Climate is something that would have to be considered
> when we get around to purchasing land. In many parts
> of North America and Europe it simply isn't possible
> to wear a Toga outside during a considerable portion
> of the year.
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
> (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
> Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:52:40 -0000

---P. Cornelia Praetor Jamie Johnston S.P.D.

Please produce me the post you are referring to so I can examine it.

I see where you have quoted my statements, but I need to see
the 'whole' post containing the statements you are having difficulty
with.

There was considerable discussion on this subject, some of it very
theoretical in nature, and I cannot humanly remember all that was
said and by whom during this debate.

Gratias

In Nova-Roma@y..., Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@y...> wrote:
>
> An open letter to the Praetors:
>
> Greetings,
>
> Only with considerable reluctance am I bringing up the nasty issue
of potentially libellous statements made on the main list. It is not
the content of any allegedly or actually libellous statement that
concerns me, nor have I any wish to state an opinion on the accuracy
of anything that anyone has said, as I have no knowledge of such
things. My concern is this: recently, when the subject was last
aired, a Praetor pronounced the following ruling:
>
> > One is 'not' free to make suggestive remarks about the
> > competance of
> > another's policies, character, etc. based on 'incomplete
> > truths', no
> > written evidence, or other halfspinnings which obscure the > past
with
> > the present, rendering said written offering a subject of
> > potential libel,previously published or not. Legally, a
> > false statement has
> > been publically asserted, adversely affecting someone
> > else.
>
> This ruling was, I believe, made in order to protect members of the
list from offence and to protect the Nova Roma organization from
potential legal difficulties, as it is therefore important that it be
adhered to, if it is to be a useful policy. I believe that at least
one individual has been censured for infringing this policy, though I
don't assert this as fact.
>
> To specifics: a list member recently posted a message containing
the following statement: "Recently a Senator libelled another Senator
on the ML". Shortly thereafter another statement was made, in
response to the question of whether this statement was justified: "It
is libel. According to my resarch and my attorney the burden of
> proof is on the defendent. I know it is libel."
>
> I do not know, nor do I greatly care, whether these statements are
true or not. However, there is clearly disagreement over whether they
are true, and it is also quite possible that they would be damaging
to the standing of the person against whom the accusation is made. A
statement which is untrue and damaging to a person's standing is
generally held to be libellous, and therefore a statement which may
be untrue and which may damage a person's standing is presumably to
be defined as a potentially libellous statement, and therefore to
fall under the ruling quoted above, where it refers to "a subject of
potential libel".
>
> Therefore I argue that the two statements, "Recently a Senator
libelled another Senator on the ML" and "It is libel... I know it is
libel.", should be considered to fall under the heading "a subject of
potential libel", and I consequently request that the Praetors rule
these statements out of order.
>
> I should like to state once more that I make this request out of no
animosity to anyone, and from a position of some neutrality, as I
have corresponded briefly and entirely amicably with both the person
who made these remarks and the person to whom I believe the remarks
refer. I act out of a desire that the rules laid down by magistrates
should be seen to bind everyone equally and fairly, and that the Nova
Roma organization be protected against legal action. I write this as
an open letter for the first of those two reasons.
>
> Jamie
>
>
>
>
> www.strategikon.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:58:47 -0700

Avete Omnes,

Right now, Americans make the most of Nova Roma. But in 10 years that demographic might change to Europe. In 20 years it might shift again to South America. And, when we are able to purchase and maintain the land then we should debate this. Not now when it is an impossibility.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Salve Citizens

"My feeling is that, when you donate money or goods to
an international charity or non-profit organization,
you don't know who your donation will benefit or where
those people live. But you give because it's the
right thing to do, and because that is the condition
of associating yourself with the charity."

I could not disagree more. Charities that help people unseen are one thing. But we are supposed to be recreating the greatest civilization on Earth. One of the functions of our land project, I hope, is to generate more revenue, and interest in our society, once it is built. Plus, more citizens can enjoy it. The best way to do that is to place our land and structure closest to where most of the citizens live.

Therefore, I ask this question again, where do most of us Romans live? Thats where we should build.

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chantal G. Whittington
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:53 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Land

Re the possibility that people who live nowhere near
the eventual landed site of Nova Roma will resent
paying taxes to support such a site

My feeling is that, when you donate money or goods to
an international charity or non-profit organization,
you don't know who your donation will benefit or where
those people live. But you give because it's the
right thing to do, and because that is the condition
of associating yourself with the charity.

So, for me, it doesn't matter where Nova Roma's land
is located or if I will ever be able to travel there.
I knew when I joined Nova Roma that the goal was to
own land and accept the obligations of land ownership.
Those were the conditions under which I joined. For
me (or anyone) to resent that, just because we might
never be able to go there, would be wrong.

I hope people would have the sense not to resent such
a thing.

Personally, with the taxes in mind, I think it might
be a wise idea to strongly consider purchasing land
outside the United States, where it might be less
expensive to buy and the taxes less of a burden to NR
citizens who are not easily able to afford them.

---
Renata Corva

=====
Chantal
http://www.4dw.net/aerden/theran/theranweyr.html

"Yesterday, it worked.
Today, it is not working.
Windows is like that."

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:01:02 -0700

Ave Gaius Basilicatus,

I agree, but for the average citizen it seems to be the accepted amount. Please keep in mind there is absolutely nothing to prevent you, or any Nova Roman to contribute above that amount.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes

$12 is ridiculously low

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova Roma
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 11:32 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Taxes

Salvete Quirites,

I Was pleased to see that my idea for indexing taxes
by National income will be considered by the Senate,
but there are still problems with the plan.

As long as there was a flat rate for all nations there
might have been an excuse for a 12 US$ tax rate, but
if we are going to index taxes by national income,
then the rates should be higher. I Can't even take my
wife to a decent movie for $12.00, and I certainly
hope that most of our citizens value a year in Nova
Roma more than a couple of hours watching a movie. If
we want to progress beyond an internet group we will
need money, and it will take a painfully long time for
our funds to build up if we limit ourselves to 12
Dollars or less per citizen per year.

The Rate should at least provide the treasury with 25
US$ per year for each citizen in the USA, or a
comprable ammount after indexing for citizens residing
outside the USA.

In Antiquita when taxes were acessed it was based on a
citizens Census wealth. As your Census wealth rose
your taxes rose along with your Class. We would be
following the ancient example if we charged citizens
in the higher classes a higher tax to go along with
thier greater voting power in the Centuries.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Academia: Sulla's comments
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:13:40 -0700

Ave Tribune,

You have missed the main focus of my point. While Claudius Salix is a Latin professor, and Gnaeus Salix might be a professional historian . What works has he published I would be interested to know his focus of study. I enjoy reading history books. And, M. Rex has spoken to his legal experience.

The issue I have is the same issue that is affecting many schools in California and that is teachers teaching subjects that they are not specialized in. Because when that happens it is MUCH easier for inaccurate information to get passed on to students. That, and the fact that there might be issues that can affect us since the Academia Thules is trying to pass itself off as an online university (www.novaroma.org/main.html). Which it is not. It is simply a collection of classes taught by individuals.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:50 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Academia: Sulla's comments

Salvete quirites; specialiter consul Sulla.

I have just read your first message about the Academia Thules, in
which you state that the praeceptores (teachers) of the Academia are
not professional teachers.

I just wanted to point out a few facts:

* Praeceptor Latini: Claudius Salix Davianus; university professor.
* Praeceptor Historiae: Gnaeus Salix Galaicus; professional historian.
* Praeceptor Militaris: Marcus Minucius Audens; experience as
military instructor.
* Praeceptor Legis: Marcus Marcius Rex; he has spoken for himself.

As you can see, about an 80% of the teachers of the Academia *do*
have experience in professional teaching. So I would say that your
statement was incorrect.


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Moderation of List
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:00:41 -0000

---Salvete M. Flavi Aureli et Omnes:

Flavius, with due respect, I do 'not' hold moderated posts
for 'days', and I can prove this by moderator activity which appears
at our Yahoo Nova-Roma site.

When the list was changed from the old to the new, and if you change
your email address, unsub and resub, you end up on moderated status,
just as you would if you are a new citizen. I correct this as
quickly as possible, as I can, and as I see it. You don't post often,
and I am sorry that I didn't take you off moderated sooner.

But it does not matter...even on moderated status your post does not
linger for days.....the fault here is not ours in either case. I have
an assistant, Renata Corva and the Pontifex Maximus and Consuls
approve posts when and if they see them in pending messages.

The most, absolute 'most' anyone has waiting for approval of messages
is maybe overnight...when we go to bed, and you happen to post.

You are from OZ...your day is my night (Canada), meaning that
you 'might' wait a night's sleep worth of hours, and no more.

If anyone else, by the way, has problems getting messages to the
list, please let me know

Bene valete,
Pompeia
Praetor et List Moderator

In Nova-Roma@y..., "M. Flavius Aurelius" <marcus.flavius@b...> wrote:
> Is this list moderated or not?
>
> I have found that some of my comments, when posted in relation to a
recent
> comment, do not appear for days, making it difficult to seek
answers for
> queries related to specific things raised in email messages.
>
> If some are moderated and some not, then can I ask for
clarification as to
> what the criteria are?
>
> Thankyou
>
> Marcus Flavius Aurelius
> Durovernium, Australia Orientalis Superior
> marcus.flavius@b...
> ICQ: 4895187
>
> Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:13:50 -0700 (PDT)

The land would have other uses as well
Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

>The goal of owning land was set in the Declaration of
> Nova Roma that established our nation. the Declaration
> states
>
> "We recognize the modern political realities which
> make the restoration of such ancient lands to us
> impossible. Therefore we limit our active territorial
> claim to an amount of land at least equal to that held
> by the sovereign state of Vatican City; 108 contiguous
> acres. On this land a world capital for the
> admistration of our culture will be founded in the
> form of a Forum Romanum. The exact site for this New
> Roman governmental and spiritual capital is to be
> determined."

If I may be forgiven for saying so, and I must stress that I in no way wish to criticize the Declaration, but does anyone else feel that 108 acres would make an unusually large forum by Roman standards? Trajan's Forum, the largest forum the Romans ever built, was 185 metres by 310 metres (about 202 yards by 339 yards), or about 14 acres. 108 acres could surely accommodate a city, not just a forum.

Or have I misunderstood the Declaration? Is the word 'forum' here being used to mean something other than what the Romans meant by it, i.e. a public / market square? Or perhaps when it says the capital will be 'in the form of a Forum Romanum' it isn't referring to the type of space at all, but simply stating that the area will be called the Forum Romanum?

I'd be grateful if someone better-placed than I to interpret state documents like this could ease my confusion.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 07:39:20 -0700

Ave,

And dont forget all that COLD weather.

I sure do enjoy living in Sunny Southern California. <g>

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: T. Cornelius Crispus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

Don't forget that Canadians put catsup on their mashed potatoes. What a
mixed up country!
T. Cornelius Crispus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Octavius Germanicus" <haase@konoko.net>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

>
>
> > I think Canada is out, since only Canadian citizens can own Canadian
> > land. Therefore, true ownership would lie with whatever citizen of
> > Canada that fronted the purchase. That just won't do. Plus,
> > Canadians put gravy on their french fries.
>
> But gravy on french fries is *good*.
>
> mmm, poutine...
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:50:04 +0000

I read it and it was all theoretical.

Galerius Peregrinator.

>From: "pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors
>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:52:40 -0000
>
>---P. Cornelia Praetor Jamie Johnston S.P.D.
>
>Please produce me the post you are referring to so I can examine it.
>
>I see where you have quoted my statements, but I need to see
>the 'whole' post containing the statements you are having difficulty
>with.
>
>There was considerable discussion on this subject, some of it very
>theoretical in nature, and I cannot humanly remember all that was
>said and by whom during this debate.
>
>Gratias
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@y..., Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@y...> wrote:
> >
> > An open letter to the Praetors:
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Only with considerable reluctance am I bringing up the nasty issue
>of potentially libellous statements made on the main list. It is not
>the content of any allegedly or actually libellous statement that
>concerns me, nor have I any wish to state an opinion on the accuracy
>of anything that anyone has said, as I have no knowledge of such
>things. My concern is this: recently, when the subject was last
>aired, a Praetor pronounced the following ruling:
> >
> > > One is 'not' free to make suggestive remarks about the
> > > competance of
> > > another's policies, character, etc. based on 'incomplete
> > > truths', no
> > > written evidence, or other halfspinnings which obscure the > past
>with
> > > the present, rendering said written offering a subject of
> > > potential libel,previously published or not. Legally, a
> > > false statement has
> > > been publically asserted, adversely affecting someone
> > > else.
> >
> > This ruling was, I believe, made in order to protect members of the
>list from offence and to protect the Nova Roma organization from
>potential legal difficulties, as it is therefore important that it be
>adhered to, if it is to be a useful policy. I believe that at least
>one individual has been censured for infringing this policy, though I
>don't assert this as fact.
> >
> > To specifics: a list member recently posted a message containing
>the following statement: "Recently a Senator libelled another Senator
>on the ML". Shortly thereafter another statement was made, in
>response to the question of whether this statement was justified: "It
>is libel. According to my resarch and my attorney the burden of
> > proof is on the defendent. I know it is libel."
> >
> > I do not know, nor do I greatly care, whether these statements are
>true or not. However, there is clearly disagreement over whether they
>are true, and it is also quite possible that they would be damaging
>to the standing of the person against whom the accusation is made. A
>statement which is untrue and damaging to a person's standing is
>generally held to be libellous, and therefore a statement which may
>be untrue and which may damage a person's standing is presumably to
>be defined as a potentially libellous statement, and therefore to
>fall under the ruling quoted above, where it refers to "a subject of
>potential libel".
> >
> > Therefore I argue that the two statements, "Recently a Senator
>libelled another Senator on the ML" and "It is libel... I know it is
>libel.", should be considered to fall under the heading "a subject of
>potential libel", and I consequently request that the Praetors rule
>these statements out of order.
> >
> > I should like to state once more that I make this request out of no
>animosity to anyone, and from a position of some neutrality, as I
>have corresponded briefly and entirely amicably with both the person
>who made these remarks and the person to whom I believe the remarks
>refer. I act out of a desire that the rules laid down by magistrates
>should be seen to bind everyone equally and fairly, and that the Nova
>Roma organization be protected against legal action. I write this as
>an open letter for the first of those two reasons.
> >
> > Jamie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.strategikon.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!� Try MSN.
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Academia: Sulla's comments
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:38:24 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, consul Sulla.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> escribi�:
> Ave Tribune,
>
> You have missed the main focus of my point. While Claudius Salix is
> a Latin professor, and Gnaeus Salix might be a professional historian
> . What works has he published I would be interested to know his
> focus of study. I enjoy reading history books. And, M. Rex has
> spoken to his legal experience.

I guess that they will be the ones that must speak for themselves. As
far as I know, those two particular gentlemen you have mentioned are
linked to important public universities in Spain; that is enough for
me.

> The issue I have is the same issue that is affecting many schools in
> California and that is teachers teaching subjects that they are not
> specialized in. Because when that happens it is MUCH easier for
> inaccurate information to get passed on to students. That, and the
> fact that there might be issues that can affect us since the Academia
> Thules is trying to pass itself off as an online university
> (www.novaroma.org/main.html). Which it is not. It is simply a
> collection of classes taught by individuals.

Even the best Californian universities issue degrees that are not
officially recognized by the Spanish governemnt. That means that,
according to your line of reasoning, no Californian university can
boast in its web site that it is, in fact, a university. In Spain, none
is. They are, in fact, a collection of classes taught by individuals,
from the Spanish point of view.

Perhaps we will come to a day when Academia lessons are recognized by
macronational institutions. Certainly, for that day to come, we need
all the help we can get. Your attitude against Nova Roma's main
educational project is not helping Nova Roma at all, consul.

As for the quality of teaching in the Academia, I can assure you that
it is one of our main concerns. But all in all, I think that the
Academia is, at least, a worthy project. We have worked for several
months, and we have worked pretty hard. We are interested in getting
all the collaboration we can get. So if any of you, Quirites, is
interested in imparting a course in the Academia, please let us know.

Together we can build much more than separate.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

_______________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger
Nueva versi�n: Webcam, voz, y mucho m�s �Gratis!
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	"T. Cornelius Crispus" <centuriocornelius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:37:05 -0500

Don't forget that Canadians put catsup on their mashed potatoes. What a
mixed up country!
T. Cornelius Crispus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Octavius Germanicus" <haase@konoko.net>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land

>
>
> > I think Canada is out, since only Canadian citizens can own Canadian
> > land. Therefore, true ownership would lie with whatever citizen of
> > Canada that fronted the purchase. That just won't do. Plus,
> > Canadians put gravy on their french fries.
>
> But gravy on french fries is *good*.
>
> mmm, poutine...
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:53:08 -0700 (PDT)

pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ---P. Cornelia Praetor Jamie Johnston S.P.D.
>
> Please produce me the post you are referring to so I
> can examine it.

While I'm sure that Mr. Johnston is entirely capable
of locating those posts, I will endeavor to find them
and forward them as well. The Curule Aedile's office
has a role in law enforcement, and in my capacity as
legal scribe to the Senior Curule Aedile I will
endeavor to assist the Praetor's office in this
matter.

Praetor Cornelia, you may expect the requested posts
in your e-mail within the next few hours.

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Land
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:50:36 -0700 (PDT)

Publius Tarquitius Rufus writes:

> ...in many areas of Italy, Albania, Greece, and
other
> southern european macronations there is good land at
> a very low price. He explained a good way to
> generate income utilizing (at least initially) a
> "Roman" style "bed and breakfast/resort" concept

Interestingly, I have been discussing a similar idea
with the Senior Curule Aedile and some of the Aedelien
Cohors recently. In our most recent discussions,
we've
been considering both homes (Domus Novae Romae) and
camps (Campus Novae Romae) that could give Nova Roma
a physical presence many places throughout the world.

These would, of course, be separate from the eventual
108+ acre land site for a Nova Roman forum. But they
could serve as consulates for NR as well as providing
a low-cost lodging location for travelling citizens of
NR and a place for non-citizens to stay with Nova
Romans for a bit, so they can see that we're really
just nice ordinary people and not dreadful Internet
Axe Murderers.

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Land
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:21:55 -0000

While the temperature IS good there, just make sure you live INSIDE
the San Adreas fault! glub...glub...glub!

P. T. Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> And dont forget all that COLD weather.
>
> I sure do enjoy living in Sunny Southern California. <g>
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: T. Cornelius Crispus
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 7:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
>
> Don't forget that Canadians put catsup on their mashed potatoes.
What a
> mixed up country!
> T. Cornelius Crispus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marcus Octavius Germanicus" <haase@c...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@y...>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
>
>
> >
> >
> > > I think Canada is out, since only Canadian citizens can own
Canadian
> > > land. Therefore, true ownership would lie with whatever
citizen of
> > > Canada that fronted the purchase. That just won't do. Plus,
> > > Canadians put gravy on their french fries.
> >
> > But gravy on french fries is *good*.
> >
> > mmm, poutine...
> >
> > --
> > Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> > Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> > Curator Araneum et Senator
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Academia: Sulla's comments
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:51:06 EDT

In a message dated 10/23/02 2:51:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
salixastur@yahoo.es writes:

> * Praeceptor Latini: Claudius Salix Davianus; university professor.
> * Praeceptor Historiae: Gnaeus Salix Galaicus; professional historian.
> * Praeceptor Militaris: Marcus Minucius Audens; experience as
> military instructor.
> * Praeceptor Legis: Marcus Marcius Rex; he has spoken for himself.
>
> As you can see, about an 80% of the teachers of the Academia *do*
> have experience in professional teaching. So I would say that your
> statement was incorrect.
>
>

Honored Tribune.
L. Cornelius Sulla statement is more inexact rather then incorrect.

I as you know am a professional historian. In otherwords I get paid for
writing books, articles, consulting, designing et al about history ,
specifically Roman and Byzantine periods.
I am also paid for my expertise on the American Civil War. This makes me a
professional by any standards.

I taught in a community college 1986-88. To do so I had to be accredited by
the state of CA.
This accreditation expires and has to renewed. I did not renew mine. So I
can say I was a former Professor.
Now we have a collection of classes to teach interested citizens about Rome
and Roman life.
That is great. And we give ourselves a fancy name.
But we are a micro-nation. We are not affiliated with learning institutions
Spain or Austria, or France.
So we cannot say we are a university, a higher place of learning.
What we have is a group of former and current professors who, while are well
meaning and rather talented, are not accredited by our standards. They can't
be. We don't have any standards.
Since we don't have any recognized criteria, what we have is a collection of
classes being taught gratis by a group of former and current professors in
various subjects to do with Rome.
Call it "The Academy" if you wish. But please do not call it a university.
I remind you that in antiquity a lecturer and his students were a common
sight in all the cities throughout the Hellenistic world.
Why can't we just be this, and not have us open to potential law suits by
misleading information and the resulting high expectations?

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Land
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:12:17 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<equitius_marinus@y...> wrote:
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus writes:
>
> > ...in many areas of Italy, Albania, Greece, and
> other
> > southern european macronations there is good land at
> > a very low price. He explained a good way to
> > generate income utilizing (at least initially) a
> > "Roman" style "bed and breakfast/resort" concept
>
> Interestingly, I have been discussing a similar idea
> with the Senior Curule Aedile and some of the Aedelien
> Cohors recently. In our most recent discussions,
> we've
> been considering both homes (Domus Novae Romae) and
> camps (Campus Novae Romae) that could give Nova Roma
> a physical presence many places throughout the world.
>
> These would, of course, be separate from the eventual
> 108+ acre land site for a Nova Roman forum. But they
> could serve as consulates for NR as well as providing
> a low-cost lodging location for travelling citizens of
> NR and a place for non-citizens to stay with Nova
> Romans for a bit, so they can see that we're really
> just nice ordinary people and not dreadful Internet
> Axe Murderers.
>
>
>
> =====
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
>
That is a good idea! It would give people in a district a "local"
home in which to business, hold meetings and gatherings, as well as
allowing people within and from without Nova Roma to learn about
ancient Rome! :-)

Once again, superior Roman thinking! :-)

I realize this is (would be) a long term project, it would be
interesting to design one I think, and see what comes up.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:55:19 -0700

Avete Omnes,

I have already forwarded them to her.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors

pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ---P. Cornelia Praetor Jamie Johnston S.P.D.
>
> Please produce me the post you are referring to so I
> can examine it.

While I'm sure that Mr. Johnston is entirely capable
of locating those posts, I will endeavor to find them
and forward them as well. The Curule Aedile's office
has a role in law enforcement, and in my capacity as
legal scribe to the Senior Curule Aedile I will
endeavor to assist the Praetor's office in this
matter.

Praetor Cornelia, you may expect the requested posts
in your e-mail within the next few hours.

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
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Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Canadian land ownership (was Land)
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:34:33 -0700 (PDT)

Quintus Lanius Paulinus writes:

> Just a few points. You can certainly own land in
> Canada as a foreigner.

The legal position of the Canadian government is, I
think, that ultimately all Canadian land ownership
lies with the Crown. Canadian citizens and landed
immigrants who purchase land do so at the pleasure
of the monarch (currently Queen Elizabeth) and with
the express understanding that the Crown holds the
ultimate title to all Canadian lands.

That said, Quintus Lanius is certainly correct in his
statement that many non-citizens hold title to
Canadian properties. Especially vacation properties.

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Land Project and French Fries
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:56:34 +0200

>> That just won't do. Plus,
> > Canadians put gravy on their french fries.

> Marcus Octavius Germanicus said :But gravy on french fries is *good*.

[Diana says:]
You haven't lived until you've eaten french fries with Mayonnaise :-) By the
way, they are really Flemish Fries (an invention of Marc Van den Frie in the
year 1302). The French stole the idea and do to a more effective propaganda
machine, convinced the world that Flemish Fries were invented in France by a
man names Pierre D'Patate-frites, thus the misnomer stuck: French Fries. ;-)

So, if the Land Project's location will be based on the tastiest sliced
potatoes deep-fried in oil, it should be in Belgium:-)

Vale!
Diana Moravia Aventina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Name & Graves
From:	"Diotima Mortifera Plutona" <diotima@veilofnight.org>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:43:22 -0400

re: my gens. I created the gens. I understood that was do-able? I filled out all the forms for gens creation.

Amorte!
Diotima Mortifera Plutona

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors: References
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:17:03 +0100 (BST)

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo wrote:

> Please produce me the post you are referring to so I can examine it.
>
> I see where you have quoted my statements, but I need to see
> the 'whole' post containing the statements you are having difficulty
> with.
>
> There was considerable discussion on this subject, some of it very
> theoretical in nature, and I cannot humanly remember all that was
> said and by whom during this debate.

Certainly - apologies for not providing these references in my first message.

The two statements I requested to be ruled out of order were made in posts numbered 3469 and 3477 in the archive, posted on Tuesday 22nd October at 5.01pm and 5.58pm respectively. They are, I believe, near the end of each post. I don't think it's disputable that these are intended to be statements of fact rather than of opinion, and should be read as such.

Your post from which I quoted your ruling on potentially libellous statements is number 2922 in the archive, posted on Saturday 5th of October at 10.59pm.

It seems clear to me from the tone and the content of that post that the passage I quoted was not a statement of opinion but a statement of fact concerning what one is and is not permitted to say on the main list, and I can only presume that any statement of fact by a main list moderator about what is permitted on the main list must be a statement of policy, or, to use another phrase, a ruling.

Moreover, I believe that even if this were not the original intention, the statement was taken to be a statement of policy by others, for instance in posts numbered 2975 and 2987 in the archive (Monday 7th October at 8.30am and 3.12pm respectively), and no attempt was made by either Praetor to assert that this reading was incorrect.

Finally, it has been reported to me by two independent people in private correspondence that at least one list member has been ruled out of order for making potentially libellous statements. If this is so, then it must presumably have been under the provision of the ruling made in post 2922, as I know of no other ruling by any authority under whose provision such a censure could have been pronounced.

I hope this makes things clearer.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:16:26 -0700 (PDT)

L. Cornelius Sulla writes:

> I have already forwarded them to her.

Thank you consul. She should have (at least) two
copies of each now.

For those in our studio audience playing along at
home,
[1] the relevant posts may be found on the web at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/3469
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/3476
and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/3477

The Yahoo search engine seems to be working well
today.

[1] A whimsical reference to American TV game shows.

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors: References
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:15:29 -0000

it seems we have a lawyer here....hhhmmmmm where's my water gun! :-)
Just kidding. In reality, I would think that at some point (hopefully
soon too), this wold move to either private e-mail, or to a judicial
actions board.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@y...> wrote:
>
> Pompeia Cornelia Strabo wrote:
>
> > Please produce me the post you are referring to so I can examine
it.
> >
> > I see where you have quoted my statements, but I need to see
> > the 'whole' post containing the statements you are having
difficulty with.
> >
> > There was considerable discussion on this subject, some of it
very theoretical in nature, and I cannot humanly remember all that
was said and by whom during this debate.
>
> Certainly - apologies for not providing these references in my
first message.
>
> The two statements I requested to be ruled out of order were made
in posts numbered 3469 and 3477 in the archive, posted on Tuesday
22nd October at 5.01pm and 5.58pm respectively. They are, I believe,
near the end of each post. I don't think it's disputable that these
are intended to be statements of fact rather than of opinion, and
should be read as such.
>
> Your post from which I quoted your ruling on potentially libellous
statements is number 2922 in the archive, posted on Saturday 5th of
October at 10.59pm.
>
> It seems clear to me from the tone and the content of that post
that the passage I quoted was not a statement of opinion but a
statement of fact concerning what one is and is not permitted to say
on the main list, and I can only presume that any statement of fact
by a main list moderator about what is permitted on the main list
must be a statement of policy, or, to use another phrase, a ruling.
>
> Moreover, I believe that even if this were not the original
intention, the statement was taken to be a statement of policy by
others, for instance in posts numbered 2975 and 2987 in the archive
(Monday 7th October at 8.30am and 3.12pm respectively), and no
attempt was made by either Praetor to assert that this reading was
incorrect.
>
> Finally, it has been reported to me by two independent people in
private correspondence that at least one list member has been ruled
out of order for making potentially libellous statements. If this is
so, then it must presumably have been under the provision of the
ruling made in post 2922, as I know of no other ruling by any
authority under whose provision such a censure could have been
pronounced.
>
> I hope this makes things clearer.
>
> Jamie
>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 216
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:21:09 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
>
>I really don't care if he has published works. What I care about, is can the
>man teach me how to read and write in Latin.
>
No: only you can do that. And you will never do it well because they could not do it well. Classical Latin was a stilted literary language written for slow decipherment outloud. It was looked on as something of a marvel that Julius Caesar could read and write his despatches silently in one go.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Citizenship / religious oath
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:33:07 +0200

Salve Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis ,

< and say ah, I am Christian and I think NR should be adjusted to the post
Constantine era, paganism should be erradicated etc

The fact that Nova Roma honors the Pagan Gods is what attracts many people
to it. Many Nova Romans honor the Roman Pantheon in their macronational life
as well as in their micronational. And there are many many pagans out there.
My macronational Pagan organization alone has 6000 paying members in the
London area (at 20? a head per year). It won't be so easy to get rid of us
:-)

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
(http://www.be.paganfederation.org)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Citizenship / religious oath
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:01:27 -0000

Salve Diana,

I think a point I made a day or to ago has been taken out of context.
Please read from message 3470. Here is that content pasted from there:

With regards to Religio Romano, I thought about the oath for a while.
It only
asks you to respect and as a magistrate, defend the right of the
religion to
exist. It does not force you to convert and worship the gods. To me
it is more
of a freedom to worship the gods clause that shall not be infringed
upon. In my
opinion the word "honour" means to have respect for the Roman
religion and its
worshipers; not having to worship the gods yourself. If you check the
history
of NR, this oath was brought in to protect the religion against
intolerance and
possibly being wiped out. So if I were to become Proconsul or
dictator some day
and say ah, I am Christian and I think NR should be adjusted to the
post
Constantine era, paganism should be erradicated etc it would be
impossible for
me to do this. Most of our Western governments though Christian also
protect
the rights ot other one god or many gods to exist.

It makes things difficult when only parts of a message are taken and
spread over a dozen emails. No one has any intention of eliminating
paganism, especially from NR.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Scriba Praefecti

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Citizenship / religious oath
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:51:36 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : mjk <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>

and say ah, I am Christian and I think NR should be adjusted to the post Constantine era, paganism should be erradicated etc it would be impossible for me to do this. Most of our Western governments though Christian also protect the rights ot other one god or many gods to exist.
>
Pity it didn't prove impossible for Constantine to do it!
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Oracle open for Ludi Victoria
From:	Caius Curius Saturninus <c.curius@welho.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:28:36 +0300

Salvete omnes,

It is my pleasure to announce the opening of the Sibyllian Oracle
today for the Ludi Victoria.

http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/oracle.htm

Valete,
--
Caius Curius Saturninus

Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Scriba Aedilis (Caeso Fabius Q.) Concursus

e-mail: c.curius@welho.com
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Academia: Sulla's comments
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:09:00 -0700 (PDT)

Quintus Fabius Maximus writes:

> Call it "The Academy" if you wish. But please do
> not call it a university.

I agree with this request. As another academic
(I hold an adjunct professorship in the University
of Maryland system) I know just how jealous and
petty some university systems can be. Our generous
teachers in the Academy might have their own
future opportunities endangered were they to be
associated with a "rogue University" which had not
been accredited by any "recognized academic agency."

> I remind you that in antiquity a lecturer and his
> students were a common sight in all the cities
> throughout the Hellenistic world. Why can't we
> just be this, and not have us open to potential
> law suits by misleading information and the
> resulting high expectations?

I could not have said it better.

On a separate note, and apropos to your earlier note,
are your books about Rome and the ancient world
available for sale somewhere, Quintus Fabius?

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Oracle open for Ludi Victoria
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:48:34 +0200

Salvete Saturninus & Franciscus,

I loved the Oracle! It is really a lot of fun. It is wonderful to see all of
the hard work that you have put in to this just to give us a laugh!

Expect a lot of hits: I am going to tell all of my Pagan friends to visit.

Valete!
Diana Moravia Aventina
Scriba Aedilis Concursus Secunda Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Citizenship / religious oath
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:56:42 -0700

Avete Vibius Ambrosius et Omnes,

I dont think you mean Constantine but Theodosius I, who reigned from 379-395. He was the one who made Christianity the Official Religion of the Empire and if I recall correctly began passing laws prohibiting the practice of the Religio in the Empire.

Here is an exerpt from this website about his life:

Religious Policy
Theodosius was Catholic and received baptism at the hands of bishop Acholius of Thessalonica during the autumn of 380 when serious illness threatened his life.[[42]] Two days after his first arrival in Constantinople on 24 November 380, Theodosius expelled the "Arian" bishop Demophilus of Constantinople from the churches of that city and surrendered them to Gregory of Naziaznus who happened to be the leader of the small Catholic or "Nicene" community there at the time. This was greatly resented and may even have resulted in an attempt to assassinate the emperor.[[43]] He also called a synod of 150 Catholic bishops who assembled at Constantinople in May 381. An early meeting of this synod, when all the bishops had not yet arrived, elected Gregory of Nazianzus as the new Bishop of Constantinople, but he was quickly forced to resign. The synod then elected the senator Nectarius, who obviously enjoyed the strong backing of the emperor himself, in his stead. Theodosius' early reign witnessed the gradual expulsion of all heretical bishops from the towns and cities of the East and the transfer of all church buildings and property to their Catholic rivals. The depth of resentment which such policies caused can best be judged by the fact that in 388 "Arian" mobs at Constantinople rioted and caused widespread damage in reponse to the false rumour that Magnus Maximus had inflicted a severe defeat upon Theodosius.[[44]]

Theodosius continued to tolerate the traditional pagan practices and rituals which had enjoyed toleration from successive Christian emperors throughout the fourth century, i.e., almost anything which did not include blood-sacrifice or did not smack of treason against the emperor, until 391 at least. He then issued a series of laws which seemed effectively to prohibit all pagan worship by forbidding visits to pagan sites of worship or even the adornment in any manner of the images of the gods.[[45]] This apparent change of policy on his part has often been credited to the increased influence of bishop Ambrose of Milan.[[46]] For in 390 Ambrose had excommunicated Theodosius because he had ordered the execution of several thousand of the inhabitants of Thessalonica in response to the murder there of his "general" Butherichus. Theodosius accepted his excommunication and even performed several months of public penance, so it is all too easy too imagine how he might have taken the time to review his other "failings" also, including his continued toleration of paganism.[[47]] However, the importance of these laws has been greatly exaggerated.[[48]] They were limited in scope, specific measures in response to various petitions and accusations and tell us less about Theodosius than the private agenda of many of the increasingly militant Christians who could be found throughout his administration. Although he had voiced his support earlier for the preservation of temples or pagan statues as useful public buildings or as works of art, in 391 he officially sanctioned the destruction of the most famous of the temples in the East, the Serapeum at Alexandria.[[49]] Bands of monks and Christian officials had long been accustomed to take the law into their own hands and destroy various centres of pagan worship, but the destruction of the Serapeum seemed to confirm that such actions had often enjoyed the emperor's tacit approval at least, and served to encourage such action in the future also. Again, however, Theodosius had been effectively manipulated into sanctioning the destruction of the Serapeum by local officials who had essentially engineered the crisis there for this very purpose.

If you are interested here is the link: http://salve5.salve.edu/~romanemp/theo1.htm

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Citizenship / religious oath

-----Original Message-----
From : mjk <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>

and say ah, I am Christian and I think NR should be adjusted to the post Constantine era, paganism should be erradicated etc it would be impossible for me to do this. Most of our Western governments though Christian also protect the rights ot other one god or many gods to exist.
>
Pity it didn't prove impossible for Constantine to do it!
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Priesthood was: Land
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:59:29 -0400

I can agree with this statement. I think the Priesthood within Nova Roma should be much more than simply, "become a Priest to God X and put up a website in their honor." We have awesome websites in Nova Roma, be we need our priests to be awesome priests -- not simply good researchers and web designers.

[of course I am not pointing fingers at anyone, this is simply my opinion, and how I feel.]

The priesthood of today will have to adapt, we are NEW Romans...not simply Anachronistic Romans (I would have joined the SCA if I wanted to be an anachronistic).

Blessings;

Gaius Modius Athanasius
Flamen Pomonalis

In a message dated 10/23/2002 6:28:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, wlr107@yahoo.com writes:

> While not very knowledgeable n ancient Roman religions (I am a former
> Mormon, now Roman Catholic), If we can find reliable information on
> the ceremonies, I honestly believe the Leader of the Nova-Roma
> religions should make the call on the flame....this person knows what
> is possible, not me! Maybe it's time to allow our priests to show
> more outward signs of ther duties, if at all possible. Just a humble
> opinion.
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Academy Thules
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:14:43 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, consul Sulla.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> escribi�:
> Avete Omnes,
>
> Shouldn't one of our Pontiffs teach the course?
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

I would *love* to have one of our pontifices as a teacher in the
Religio course. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to convince any of
them to work countless hours for no money and (so it seems) no
recognition from Nova Roma's highest magistrates. Strange, uhn? ;-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

_______________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger
Nueva versi�n: Webcam, voz, y mucho m�s �Gratis!
Desc�rgalo ya desde http://messenger.yahoo.es


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: The Academia: Sulla's comments
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:21:26 -0000

It was not intending to step on any academic toes here with my
initial letter. I was hoping we could discuss fleshing out several
areas of interest, maybe develop an online ciricullum, assignments,
ect. There was not any desire to cause any interference with
someone's life.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<equitius_marinus@y...> wrote:
> Quintus Fabius Maximus writes:
>
> > Call it "The Academy" if you wish. But please do
> > not call it a university.
>
> I agree with this request. As another academic
> (I hold an adjunct professorship in the University
> of Maryland system) I know just how jealous and
> petty some university systems can be. Our generous
> teachers in the Academy might have their own
> future opportunities endangered were they to be
> associated with a "rogue University" which had not
> been accredited by any "recognized academic agency."
>
> > I remind you that in antiquity a lecturer and his
> > students were a common sight in all the cities
> > throughout the Hellenistic world. Why can't we
> > just be this, and not have us open to potential
> > law suits by misleading information and the
> > resulting high expectations?
>
> I could not have said it better.
>
> On a separate note, and apropos to your earlier note,
> are your books about Rome and the ancient world
> available for sale somewhere, Quintus Fabius?
>
>
>
> =====
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
>
> Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso
Fabius Quintilianus
>
> The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
> http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] French Fries
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:59:21 +0200

Dear Festus,

You caught me :-) I made the French Fry story up, but I knew that the
Belgians created them, since every time I say French Frie in this country, I
am corrected by a proud Belgian Flemish Fry Eater. In 1302, the Flemish
defeated the French in a great battle. It was a big celbration this year
(700 year anniversary).

>FRENCH FRIES ARE ROMAN. =) *beg*
I won't argue with that:-) But the Romans ate them with the rotten fish
sauce.
PS- the Flemish THINK that THEY invented the Sicilian zepoles (spelling?)
and call them 'smaltebolletjes'.
Vale!
Diana

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Paul Kershaw [mailto:brighn@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 22:05
Aan: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Nova-Roma] Land Project and French Fries

Salve Diana:

I'm not sure if you meant this as a joke or picked it up as Urban Folklore
somewhere, but according to
http://www.belgianfries.com/index.cfm?Module=histor1, the Belgians did
invent French fries, but nowhere near as far back as 1302. French fry stands
were known in both France and Belgium by the mid-19th C., with the earliest
known record of such stands in Belgium (according to the site) giving a date
of 1862. Meanwhile, U.S. President Jefferson was known to be fan of
French-cut fried potatoes, writing of them as a treat he discovered
overseas, in the late 1700s (which suggests a French source of the fries,
after all).

They're not called "French fries" because the method of cooking them is from
France. The name comes from the style of cutting the potatoes, also called
"Julienne." And since the ultimate root of Julienne would be related (in
some shape or form) to our erstwhile Caesar, the truth can finally be known:

Vale,
Festus

[Diana says:]
You haven't lived until you've eaten french fries with Mayonnaise :-) By the
way, they are really Flemish Fries (an invention of Marc Van den Frie in the
year 1302). The French stole the idea and do to a more effective propaganda
machine, convinced the world that Flemish Fries were invented in France by a
man names Pierre D'Patate-frites, thus the misnomer stuck: French Fries. ;-)

So, if the Land Project's location will be based on the tastiest sliced
potatoes deep-fried in oil, it should be in Belgium:-)

Vale!
Diana Moravia Aventina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Open letter to Praetors: Thanks
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:22:47 +0100 (BST)

My thanks to Cn. Equitius Marinus and to L. Cornelius Sulla, for your help with these references. Before I read your posts I had also posted a message containing the same references, so the Praetor should now have them firmly triangulated. I also included a couple of others pertaining to the matter.

Thanks again,

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The Academy Thules
From:	"L. Didius Geminus Sceptius $E-mail$" <sceptia@yahoo.es>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:44:20 +0200

Salvete omnes.

I don't share the point of view about the Academy as a simple collection of
particulars giving lectures as they wish. Much more than that, and maybe now
nearer to a Clasical lecture like that you could find in Athens than to a
modern University.
But I consider that honorable Sulla wanted to expose the Academy's
amateurish side of our teachers which is absolutely a mistake. Not expose,
honorable Sulla, but recogn that what Gn. Salix Astur has said is what makes
the Academy a strong projecto for our future. Teachers in it ARE
professionals and have a real control on the subjects they manage. Their
competence is far beyond any doubt.
Although a "stand-by" teacher I consider myself quite prepared for giving
lessons at Philosophy. And I know that the 80% mentioned by Astur is equally
or much more prepared.
As Gn. Salix Astur said, work to join, not to rift. Is the highest duty for
an upper magistrate as you are. :-)

Valete,

L. Didius Geminus Sceptius
��
Hispania.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:49:16 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Matt Haase <haase@konoko.net>
>
>This is a historical solution, as well - banishment was used by the
>ancients as a punishment for crimes.
>
This is and was to some extent a serious problem in any living community. For all we know about Christians and wild beasts, the fact remains that Rome had only fines and banishment for its *citizens*. Since there was no regular prison and the death penalty allowed a day to order affairs it in reality amounted to banishment. As far as I know, only sacrilege, which includes incest and parricide, allowed an immediate death sentence.
On the face of it, it is close to the American ideal of 'Freedom' but in reality that comes close to freedom only for the powerful and for those who can afford the law (as in fact the American ideal has often become) since the magistrates were of the same economic group as those able to pay a reasonable fine and might find themselves accused as vendetta next year. The other side is that the poor would not see much point in bringing a case where magistrates would be lenient to their own and impose financial penalties impossible for the poor. This must have led to a great deal of unofficial law enforced either by appeal to local gangsters or for the gangsters' own benefit: a situation still evident where police are seen as a common (or even an uncommon) enemy. I venture that ancient cities were not safe places even in daylight. We know that it was usual to take or hire bodyguards at night. That would also account for much of the apparant restriction on women and as much is implied by a 'rogues gallery' published during the Pelopenesian War when Athens and Peireious were overcrowded with refugees. I've heard it is still true in parts of Marseilles; that and Naples haven't changed much in their existence!
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

--
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] My Take on the Academia
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:53:34 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

(((Pompeia gets out of her nursing stola and dons her Senatrix Stola))

With respect to the conception of Academia, its purpose, and its
collegiae:

For all the fine work all those involved with the Academia have done,
and continue to do, my many, many thanks. You have my admiration.

As one who could teach a bit perhaps on the medicines of antiquita,
the medical management, etc., that is about all I honestly
feel 'qualified' to do. I am an abashed 'armchair historian', but I
do not feel qualified as some people are.

It is good to see academia collegia here with University degrees,
Graduate status, language proficiencies, religio expertise engaged in
sharing their knowledge with those who are eager to learn.

Life, real living is 'learning', and learning and doing are what help
Nova Roma grow, and make for happy, informed citizens.

With respect to names, credentials and titles:

My thanks to Senator Fabius Maximus et Legatus Militarium Gnaeus
Equitius, both with teaching experience in higher learning
institutions, for clarifying a few things I was unsure of regarding
university credentials et al.

Here is what I think: I question if the idea behind naming Academia
Thule a "University" on the main website was a plan to present it as
equivalent to a macronational university. I wonder if perhaps, this
was the only name suitable the founders felt they could find, in the
English Language, which they felt people would understand. The
Academia was started by those who know English as a second language.
Perhaps this could be expanded upon by one of the founders.

Even "Egressus" for the Outreach Sodalitas is a term which lends
itself to controversy from time to time. It is hard to find
the 'right name' sometimes.

But.........

I agree, however, that naming it a university is, with respect,
misleading. It gives the impression (even if this is not the
intention) to the macronational academic world, to those 'shopping'
our website, that we "are" housing a macronationally accredited
university.

How about Collegium Academia Thule, or Collegium Academia Nova
Roma...a 'collegiate of academics'??? This would save giving the
wrong impression.

I drew up a short piece for new subscribers/citizens before all this
discussion, as people were asking about Academics and Sodalitates.
In talking about the Academia, I called it Nova Roma's Institution
for Higher Learning. I was actually hesitant to call it a University
for reasons expressed above.

But this does not mean that the whole thing should be jettisoned :)!!!

......any more than I think a person should stop singing because they
don't sound like Celine Dion :)

And my 'only' suggestion, and it is just a suggestion, with respect
to the teaching material....I don't think it would be a bad idea to
show the Religio Course Syllabus to the Collegium Pontificium, just
to get it checked for ommissions or errors.....but you have likely
thought of this already.

I apologize for any redundance in expressing an opinion which may
have already been stated.

My two sestertii,
Pompeia
Praetor


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Land Project and French Fries
From:	"Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:04:39 -0400

Salve Diana:

I'm not sure if you meant this as a joke or picked it up as Urban Folklore somewhere, but according to http://www.belgianfries.com/index.cfm?Module=histor1, the Belgians did invent French fries, but nowhere near as far back as 1302. French fry stands were known in both France and Belgium by the mid-19th C., with the earliest known record of such stands in Belgium (according to the site) giving a date of 1862. Meanwhile, U.S. President Jefferson was known to be fan of French-cut fried potatoes, writing of them as a treat he discovered overseas, in the late 1700s (which suggests a French source of the fries, after all).

They're not called "French fries" because the method of cooking them is from France. The name comes from the style of cutting the potatoes, also called "Julienne." And since the ultimate root of Julienne would be related (in some shape or form) to our erstwhile Caesar, the truth can finally be known:

FRENCH FRIES ARE ROMAN. =) *beg*

Vale,
Festus

[Diana says:]
You haven't lived until you've eaten french fries with Mayonnaise :-) By the
way, they are really Flemish Fries (an invention of Marc Van den Frie in the
year 1302). The French stole the idea and do to a more effective propaganda
machine, convinced the world that Flemish Fries were invented in France by a
man names Pierre D'Patate-frites, thus the misnomer stuck: French Fries. ;-)

So, if the Land Project's location will be based on the tastiest sliced
potatoes deep-fried in oil, it should be in Belgium:-)

Vale!
Diana Moravia Aventina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Academy Thules
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:57:35 -0700

Avete Omnes,

Shouldn't one of our Pontiffs teach the course?

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] The Academy Thules

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Diana Moravia Aventina.

--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@pandora.be> escribi�:
> Salvete gentlemen,
>
> No matter what the credentials are of anyone teaching at the Academia
> (and their credentials seem good enough to me) I think that it was an

> excellent initiative and I look forward to the Religio course which
> should start any moment now. And the Academia can only get better and
> better.
>
> Valete!
> Diana Moravia Aventina

Thank you for your kind words, Diana.

As for the Religio course, we are still working on it :-). We seem to
have some difficulties in finding a professional teacher to do the job
(anyone?), but at least a *basic* Religio course is under preparation.
It might take a few longer, but we will impart it.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

_______________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma]Roman cops
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:39:29 EDT

In a message dated 10/23/02 1:50:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
me-in-@disguise.co.uk writes:

Salvete
> Since there was no regular prison and the death penalty allowed a day to
> order affairs it in reality amounted to banishment.

There was prisons, such as the mammertime but they were holding cells.
Prison was not a punishment.

As far as I know, only sacrilege, which includes incest and parricide,
allowed an
> immediate death sentence.

Actually no. However if you were to kill the transgressor you'd likely get
off with a light fine.

> On the face of it, it is close to the American ideal of 'Freedom' but in
> reality that comes close to freedom only for the powerful and for those who
> can afford the law (as in fact the American ideal has often become) since
> the magistrates were of the same economic group as those able to pay a
> reasonable fine and might find themselves accused as vendetta next year.

This was the largest problem IMO with the Roman justice system. The fines
might be unrealistic, or the accused be turned over to the Paterfamilias for
punishment. Having a Iudice assigning such things with no guidelines was the
biggest problem. One of the things that Justinian established were
reasonable guidelines for sentencing.

The other side is that the poor would not see much point in bringing a case
where
> magistrates would be lenient to their own and impose financial penalties
> impossible for the poor. This must have led to a great deal of unofficial
> law enforced either by appeal to local gangsters or for the gangsters' own
> benefit: a situation still evident where police are seen as a common (or
> even an uncommon) enemy. I venture that ancient cities were not safe places
> even in daylight.

It depended where you were. I wouldn't take valuables into the slums or
dockyards on the Tiber in Rome. Good way to lose them.

While I was in Naples, I was warned not go into certain quarter of the city
as an American (read rich American). I went anyway. I have 12 years of
Hopakido under my belt, and I spent my first three years out of school as
photojournalist so I wasn't too worried. I was not bothered. So I wonder
was I just lucky, or I appeared as someone you wouldn't want to mess with.

Ancient cities usually tried to protect the rich or nobility. Much had to do
their importance in the city life. The poor was left to fend for
themselves. Many crossroad associations formed posses to protect their own
from brigands.

Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Academia: Sulla's comments
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:25:08 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Tarquiti Rufe.

--- William Rogers <wlr107@yahoo.com> escribi�:
> It was not intending to step on any academic toes here with my
> initial letter. I was hoping we could discuss fleshing out several
> areas of interest, maybe develop an online ciricullum, assignments,
> ect. There was not any desire to cause any interference with
> someone's life.
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus

No problem at all, Rufe. Knowledge can sometimes only be achieved
through questions ;-).

Besides, if you are still interested in working in an educational
project for Nova Roma, please contact me privately at
salixastur@yahoo.es .
I am very interested in your ideas and suggestions, and I am sure that
the Academia staff will be more than happy to help you in the actual
implementation of those projects, either within the Academia or on your
own. As someone said: "Strength lies in union" :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

_______________________________________________________________
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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] The Academy Thules
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:03:44 +0200

Salvete gentlemen,

No matter what the credentials are of anyone teaching at the Academia (and
their credentials seem good enough to me) I think that it was an excellent
initiative and I look forward to the Religio course which should start any
moment now. And the Academia can only get better and better.

Valete!
Diana Moravia Aventina
Scriba Aedilis Concursus Secunda Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Academia: Sulla's comments
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:12:24 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, senator Maxime.

--- qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com escribi�:

<<snipped>>

> I taught in a community college 1986-88. To do so I had to be
> accredited by the state of CA.
> This accreditation expires and has to renewed. I did not renew mine.
> So I can say I was a former Professor.
> Now we have a collection of classes to teach interested citizens
> about Rome and Roman life.
> That is great. And we give ourselves a fancy name.
> But we are a micro-nation. We are not affiliated with learning
> institutions Spain or Austria, or France.
>
> So we cannot say we are a university, a higher place of learning.
> What we have is a group of former and current professors who, while
> are well meaning and rather talented, are not accredited by our
> standards.
> They can't be. We don't have any standards.

Perhaps it's time to create those standards, then. The Academia has
been working *exactly* towards that goal; to create a serious
educational organisation for Nova Roma.

Obviously, you can't expect to have everything built in one day. But
step by step, the Academia is working to achieve that goal.

And if that is the Will of the Gods, we might even get to be recognised
in Spain, Austria or France. Having a couple of university teachers in
our staff is certainly guiding us in the right direction.

> Since we don't have any recognized criteria, what we have is a
> collection of classes being taught gratis by a group of former and
> current professors in various subjects to do with Rome.
> Call it "The Academy" if you wish. But please do not call it a
> university.
>
> I remind you that in antiquity a lecturer and his students were a
> common sight in all the cities throughout the Hellenistic world.
> Why can't we just be this, and not have us open to potential law
> suits by misleading information and the resulting high expectations?

No claims about official recognition are made on the Academia web site
or anywhere else. I suspect that any law suits against the Academia
would be dismissed by the Finnish judicial system (the only one that
has any jurisdiction over the Academia).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] French Fries
From:	"Paul Kershaw" <brighn@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:59:28 -0400

Oh, and this is different from the Brits eating them with rotten grape juice HOW? ;)

"I won't argue with that:-) But the Romans ate them with the rotten fish
sauce.
Vale!
Diana"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Priesthood
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:43:40 EDT

In a message dated 10/23/02 2:58:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com writes:

> Romans (I would have joined the SCA if I wanted to be an anachronistic).
>

The SCA doesn't recreate religions. We are reconstructing a religion that
has been dormant for 1800 years. We are not a new age experiment.

Valete
Q fabius Maximus
Pontiff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Land Project and French Fries
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:28:22 -0000

I can't believe this....

> [Diana says:]
> You haven't lived until you've eaten french fries with Mayonnaise :-

MAYONNAISE!!!!! ACK! *Faints* ACK!!! *Runs for bathroom* :-)

And I thought the people in CANADA were whacked! :-) I figured they
were just too cold or something....but the BELGAINS should KNOW
BETTER! *shakes head in shame for Belgains)

) By the way, they are really Flemish Fries (an invention of Marc Van
den Frie in the year 1302). The French stole the idea and do to a
more effective propaganda machine, convinced the world that Flemish
Fries were invented in France by a man names Pierre D'Patate-frites,
thus the misnomer stuck: French Fries. ;-)

******Those sneaky Frenchmen! :-)

> So, if the Land Project's location will be based on the tastiest
sliced potatoes deep-fried in oil, it should be in Belgium:-)
*****Actually....I may have to agree with her on this....well, they
might not be the VERY best (because EVERYONE knows the best people
who fry something is Americans in the "Southern" states...and that's
because we fry just about everything! :-)

Diana Moravia,

PLEASE know I AM just joking...okay? :-)

BUT MAYO!?! UGH! BLECH! *faints again*

Publius Tarquitius Rufus :-)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Academia: Sulla's comments
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:13:23 -0400

I feel that I have to agree with Gnaeus Salix Astur. I feel that the Consul's attitude towards the Academia are arrogant, and destructive in an open forum.

I seek knowledge and wisdom in life. If I can learn from someone I will. A person doesn't have to be a PhD, and several times published, to garner my respect and admiration. As a matter of fact. I would rather learn about Roman Religion, for example, from someone who has faith in it (and believes) vs. someone who has book knowledge but is in reality a Christian and who thinks my Gods are myths/fabrications.

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:38:24 +0200 (CEST), salixastur@yahoo.es writes:

> Even the best Californian universities issue degrees that are not
> officially recognized by the Spanish governemnt. That means that,
> according to your line of reasoning, no Californian university can
> boast in its web site that it is, in fact, a university. In Spain, none
> is. They are, in fact, a collection of classes taught by individuals,
> from the Spanish point of view.
>
> Perhaps we will come to a day when Academia lessons are recognized by
> macronational institutions. Certainly, for that day to come, we need
> all the help we can get. Your attitude against Nova Roma's main
> educational project is not helping Nova Roma at all, consul.
>
> As for the quality of teaching in the Academia, I can assure you that
> it is one of our main concerns. But all in all, I think that the
> Academia is, at least, a worthy project. We have worked for several
> months, and we have worked pretty hard. We are interested in getting
> all the collaboration we can get. So if any of you, Quirites, is
> interested in imparting a course in the Academia, please let us know.
>
> Together we can build much more than separate.
>
> =====
> Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Tribunus Plebis
> Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
> Triumvir Academiae Thules
> Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
> Lictor Curiatus.


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] The Academy Thules
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:55:49 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Diana Moravia Aventina.

--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@pandora.be> escribi�:
> Salvete gentlemen,
>
> No matter what the credentials are of anyone teaching at the Academia
> (and their credentials seem good enough to me) I think that it was an

> excellent initiative and I look forward to the Religio course which
> should start any moment now. And the Academia can only get better and
> better.
>
> Valete!
> Diana Moravia Aventina

Thank you for your kind words, Diana.

As for the Religio course, we are still working on it :-). We seem to
have some difficulties in finding a professional teacher to do the job
(anyone?), but at least a *basic* Religio course is under preparation.
It might take a few longer, but we will impart it.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

_______________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger
Nueva versi�n: Webcam, voz, y mucho m�s �Gratis!
Desc�rgalo ya desde http://messenger.yahoo.es