Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Religious Challenge {was Constantinus et Teodosius}
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 00:44:17 -0000

G. VALERIUS TAURINUS: "By rejecting the ancestors' Gods and ideas
regarding cosmology...one is in effect saying that the ancestors were
wrong; they were decieved; they were ignorant of the "true" state of
the universe and its powers..."

NERVA RESPONDS: Good. We have a better cosmology than they did. We
have better mathematics, better biology, better physics, better
astronomy, better medicine. And would you seriously have us assume
that on matters of religion, the 'ancestors' must be absolutely right
on target?

G. VALERIUS TAURINUS: "...and what person can do such a thing?"

NERVA: A freethinking person, perhaps?

G. VALERIUS TAURINUS: "What kind of irrational, prideful person could
be so disrespectful?"

NERVA: What kind of irrational, thoughtless person could bury his
head in the sand and blindly believe something, for no other reason
than 'the ancestors' believed it?

G. VALERIUS TAURINUS: "I can assure you that the ancestors were not
ignorant of the inner workings of creation".

NERVA: Thank you for your personal assurances, but they do not assure
anything.

G. VALERIUS TAURINUS: "...the Gods are real"

NERVA: Can you please prove that?

G. VALERIUS TAURINUS: "...there is not just one God
named Jehova who controls the destinies of all things."

NERVA: Alright...prove not only a *god* exists, but that *many* gods
exist.

G. VALERIUS TAURINUS: "There is not
just one religion that is proper or "right", contrasted with scores
that are demonic imitations or deceits, or simple manifestations of
ignorance."

NERVA: Perhaps. It is also at least possible that all religious
beliefs {including yours} are 'simple manifestations of ignorance."


Vale,

Gaius Cassius Nerva

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Paganism & Christianity
From:	"Circe Aeaea" <osculum@bigpond.com.au>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:29:08 +1000

Salve,

I am also finding this discussion (debate) about the differences and virtues
or lack of them between Roman Paganism and Christianity rather interesting.

Its nice to read the opinions of people who are at least rather learned on
the subjects - it makes a pleasant change from the uneducated 'hot-headed'
and 'knee-jerk' opinions of the general 'neo pagan' masses that I am
accustomed to on several other lists.

Vale

Tullia Sentia Silvana.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Citizenship
From:	mscommunication@attbi.com
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 00:59:34 +0000

Well, after almost a month of waiting, I have still not
heard back from the censors about creating my own gens,
Astria, nor have I heard from the paterfamilias of
Viridia, the gens I had applied for originally, as to
whether or not I was accepted. I can only assume, then,
that the Viridia family does not accept my application,
nor do the censors accept my application to create a new
gens. Therefore, I wish Nova Roma the best of luck with
the creation of this new nation, and I will go back to
being just a plain old US Citizen (the OTHER nova roma).


~The former Lithia Viridia (and hopeful Astria)

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Mac OSX iCal made Roman Calenders
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:58:05 -0500

Salve,
Has anyone got Mac 10.2.1 and thought about making Roman
calendars with the new iCal(makes Calendars). I am starting
to make one for Oct., Nov., and Dec. now. If you are let me know,
please.
Info on iCal can be found here: http://www.apple.com/ical



Sextus Cornelius Cotta

--
Mac OSX iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
YahooMsgr: iguard2

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Bienvenido Gaius Quintus Paulus
From:	"Daniel" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 02:00:46 -0000

Salve Gai Quinte Paule
Como propraetor provincial de Argentina te doy la más cálida
bienvenida novísimo ciudadano novaromano de provincia novaromana de
Argentina!. Sos el primer novaromano de la patagonia argentina!!.
Para tu información la dirección de la lista de correo de la
provincia novaromana de Argentina es :
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina/
y la dirección de la página provincial es :
http://argentina.novaroma.org
Vale bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Proprætor provincialis Argentinæ


Salve Gai Quinte Paule
As provincial propraetor of Argentina I give you the warmest welcome
Oh newest civis novaromanus argentinus!. You are the first novaroman
from the argentine Patagonia!.!
For your information the provincial mailing list is located at:
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina/
and the URL of proovincial page is :
http://argentina.novaroma.org
Vale bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Proprætor provincialis Argentinæ

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Citizenship
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 02:33:32 -0000

Salve Astria,

The matter of gens heads not answering Email is an on going problem
at Nova Roma. I have written about in on several occasions and got
good response from the senate. I applied to 1 gens, Britannica and
did not even get an answer after waiting 7 weeks. Eventually I put an
announcement up as you did but on the chat line and even got offers
of acceptance into some Patrician families. Apparently there are
rules now that say you can get the gens name without approval of the
paterfamilias if they do not respond to a censor's call within a 30
day period. Please contact the censors or Pompeia Cornelia
(trogg99@yahoogroups who brought in the edict. Also the gens are
eventually struck of the active list if they are out of contact too
long. To start a new gens takes a little more time because the name
has to be studied and approved. Actually, my gens Lania is such a
gens and named after a small hunting bird; bird watching is the
hobbie of my paterfamilias. Just try and do a convincing sales job.
Good luck, please be patient and I am sure everything will fall into
place. We could also use a new member in the Lania family and would
be glad to have you.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., mscommunication@a... wrote:
> Well, after almost a month of waiting, I have still not
> heard back from the censors about creating my own gens,
> Astria, nor have I heard from the paterfamilias of
> Viridia, the gens I had applied for originally, as to
> whether or not I was accepted. I can only assume, then,
> that the Viridia family does not accept my application,
> nor do the censors accept my application to create a new
> gens. Therefore, I wish Nova Roma the best of luck with
> the creation of this new nation, and I will go back to
> being just a plain old US Citizen (the OTHER nova roma).
>
>
> ~The former Lithia Viridia (and hopeful Astria)

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Mac OSX iCal made Roman Calenders
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 03:12:48 -0000

--

Salve Frater Corneli:

We were discussing this very idea of a calendar for Egressus :)

I'll check this one out....thanks!

Pompeia

- In Nova-Roma@y..., Charlie Collins <cotta@s...> wrote:
> Salve,
> Has anyone got Mac 10.2.1 and thought about making Roman
> calendars with the new iCal(makes Calendars). I am starting
> to make one for Oct., Nov., and Dec. now. If you are let me know,
> please.
> Info on iCal can be found here: http://www.apple.com/ical
>
>
>
> Sextus Cornelius Cotta
>
> --
> Mac OSX iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
> YahooMsgr: iguard2

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Citizenship
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 03:18:35 -0000

---


Salve Quinte Lani et Lithia:

My edictum would not carry any weight unless this situation exceeded
90 days.

I would certainly not hesitate to contact the Censors first
Censors@novaroma.org regarding your application regarding forming
your own gens. I am sure there is a reasonable explanation...one
could be that they have had an 'explosion' of applicants, which I am
sure happens, but it could be something else, too.

I would check with them first, before assuming anything. It would be
a shame to lose you :(

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia
Praetor


In Nova-Roma@y..., "Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salve Astria,
>
> The matter of gens heads not answering Email is an on going problem
> at Nova Roma. I have written about in on several occasions and got
> good response from the senate. I applied to 1 gens, Britannica and
> did not even get an answer after waiting 7 weeks. Eventually I put
an
> announcement up as you did but on the chat line and even got offers
> of acceptance into some Patrician families. Apparently there are
> rules now that say you can get the gens name without approval of
the
> paterfamilias if they do not respond to a censor's call within a 30
> day period. Please contact the censors or Pompeia Cornelia
> (trogg99@yahoogroups who brought in the edict. Also the gens are
> eventually struck of the active list if they are out of contact too
> long. To start a new gens takes a little more time because the name
> has to be studied and approved. Actually, my gens Lania is such a
> gens and named after a small hunting bird; bird watching is the
> hobbie of my paterfamilias. Just try and do a convincing sales job.
> Good luck, please be patient and I am sure everything will fall
into
> place. We could also use a new member in the Lania family and would
> be glad to have you.
>
> Yours respectfully,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., mscommunication@a... wrote:
> > Well, after almost a month of waiting, I have still not
> > heard back from the censors about creating my own gens,
> > Astria, nor have I heard from the paterfamilias of
> > Viridia, the gens I had applied for originally, as to
> > whether or not I was accepted. I can only assume, then,
> > that the Viridia family does not accept my application,
> > nor do the censors accept my application to create a new
> > gens. Therefore, I wish Nova Roma the best of luck with
> > the creation of this new nation, and I will go back to
> > being just a plain old US Citizen (the OTHER nova roma).
> >
> >
> > ~The former Lithia Viridia (and hopeful Astria)

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Constantinus et Teodosius
From:	"Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@usa.net>
Date:	Fri, 25 Oct 2002 23:49:21 -0400

You are exactly right, the Romans at the time of the "fall" had no idea
the Empire had "fallen." The Emperor had been deposed and perhaps they
assumed that eventually someone would take up that title. Things in Rome
probably ran pretty much the same, as the Senate and elected magistrates
ran the city. And you are quite right about the "feudal" (a slippery term,
but I believe it applies here to the sort of personal vassalage relationship
that later emperors maintained with various kings and princes) relationship
of Byzantium. In fact, when Odoacer sent the imperial regalia to Zeno in
Constantinople as "unnecessary," he assured the Emperor that he would rule
Italy as his viceroy. It is interesting to note that Odoacer did not make
himself Emperor, because as a German, he could not legally hold that post -
thus the "barbarians" so respected Roman law!

erratum- I mistakenly said in an earlier post that Belisarius reconquered
Italy for Teodosio - it was under Justinian that Belisarius reconquered
Italy.

TAS

> -----Original Message-----
> From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk [mailto:me-in-@disguise.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, 25 October, 2002 18:25
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Constantinus et Teodosius
>
>
> I question to what extent they considered that the Empire /had/
> 'fallen. All that happened was that there was one Emperor again
> instead of two except that he now ruled from Constantinople and
> his rule was indirect. But then the East too moved towards a more
> feudal kind of indirect rule, if not as far. When Charlemagne is
> crowned Western Emperor, it is not viewed as a replacement but as
> restoring continuity, particularly as the loathsome Eirene
> intended to marry him.
> I suspect that Anglophones are biassed because the Anglo-Saxons
> were genuine pagan barbarians wanting nothing whatever to do with
> their predecessors and the Empire had imploded far worse in
> Britain and probably over a longer period going back to the
> 'Little Caesars' than it ever did elsewhere. If nothing else,
> that is evident from the failure of Latin language or
> institutions to survive in any of the Celtic successors.
> Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.
>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Mac OSX iCal made Roman Calenders
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 25 Oct 2002 23:15:52 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Sexte Corneli,

> Has anyone got Mac 10.2.1 and thought about making Roman
> calendars with the new iCal(makes Calendars). I am starting
> to make one for Oct., Nov., and Dec. now. If you are let me know,
> please.

Don't forget, we do have a shared Roman calendar:

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calendar/cal

...which indicates the type of each day (fastus, nefastus, etc.), as well
as its date in Latin and whatever events citizens have chosen to list there.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Richard Harris
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:27:57 +0200

Salvete,

That's a shame that Richard Harris died. I met him quite by accident in 1994
or 1995 in Tenerife, while he was making Abraham in Morrocco (I think). He
was a very nice man. I used to own a cocktail bar at at hotel swimming pool,
and he just walked in, sat down and started drinking Foster's. He spent
about a week at my bar chatting with me about his life.
I didn't know who he was at first, but there were women following him
around. I asked him if he had been to Tenerife before because he looked
familiar. I then said that he reminded me of Sean Connery :-p because he had
nice eyes, a very pleasant voice, and spoke beautiful English. He laughed
and said that he was also an actor and his name was Richard and maybe that
is why he looked familiar to me. He was verrrrrry chatty and a very open
person. Surely, he was someone whose stardom didn't go to his head. What a
shame that he died.

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:haase@konoko.net]
Verzonden: vrijdag 25 oktober 2002 23:09
Aan: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [Nova-Roma] Richard Harris



Salvete Omnes,

This Just In: Actor Richard Harris has died at 72.

He played the emperor Marcus Aurelius in "Gladiator", and the
dictator Lucius Cornelius Sulla in an upcoming TV miniseries.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On religious beliefs (was: Constantinus et Teodosius)
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:50:39 -0000

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am new to Nova Roma, but not to this discussion. Let us remember
one key item here. Nove Roma does NOT sanction ANY choice of
religious views one over the other. Nova Roma allows ALL to be
represented, and NOT a view over another, but ALL ARE TREATED AS
EQUALS!!

Each and every choice a religion has made in the past (as well as the
present and the future choices) SHALL have an impact on the world at
large. There is no way it cannot happen.

But note this as you rant and rave about this: You know why ALL
religions fail? HHHMMM? DO YOU? I will tell you why. It is actually
VERY simple:


All religions have one thing in common;




















They are developed and controlled by MEN AND WOMEN! Human have egos,
humans have emotions, humans make mistakes! Get over it people! There
is NO reason why this heated, hurtful, and disgusting discussion need
to take place on this board! Take it to a diffrent board! Take it
somewhere else so that those who want to see it can, and this board
will be focused on important issues such as revenue growth,
membership growth, sharing of ROMAN values, and other items that show
a POSITIVE strength to what we ALL are here for: The birth of a new
Rome. Take the religious babble elsewhere, please!

I do NOT say you should feel as you do. You should have those views.
But please tear at some else's soul elsewhere, not here.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Citizenship
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:08:06 -0000

I am sure you join me in my Gens, Tarquitia. I just hoined last week,
and I was approved monday. Also, the thing may have gotten lost
somewhere...Please stay and join us in the gens Tarquitia!.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., mscommunication@a... wrote:
> Well, after almost a month of waiting, I have still not
> heard back from the censors about creating my own gens,
> Astria, nor have I heard from the paterfamilias of
> Viridia, the gens I had applied for originally, as to
> whether or not I was accepted. I can only assume, then,
> that the Viridia family does not accept my application,
> nor do the censors accept my application to create a new
> gens. Therefore, I wish Nova Roma the best of luck with
> the creation of this new nation, and I will go back to
> being just a plain old US Citizen (the OTHER nova roma).
>
>
> ~The former Lithia Viridia (and hopeful Astria)

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Constantinus et Teodosius
From:	Larry Freeman <larrythebear@askmamafreeman.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 03:08:44 -0400

Salvete!!
I will second the statement, about the Gods working in peoples lives. As
Galus Valerius put it. I will say that My Gods have also worked in my life.
And have appeared to me as well.
I'm not trying to start a tat-for-tat here. Just pointing out as G.
Valerius was, that you don't have to belive in a supposed Hellenized
Hebraic man to have a active religious life, and have your deities work in
your life.
Alvete!!!
Laurenicus Flavius Magus.


At 03:48 AM 10/25/02 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > Salve G. Taurini,
> >
>
>
>Salve Quintus...
>
>
>
> > Thank you for your interesting and informative response regarding
>the
> > pagan religion of Rome. I appreciate your time and thought in
> > anwering my point. I would acknowledge that Judeo - Christianity
> > actually or naturally evolved from the more older religions that
>had
> > many gods.
>
>
>I would respond that christianity did not. Judaism may have; but
>christianity comes from no ancient source, only the supposed sayings
>and teachings of a semi-historical hellenized jewish man who was
>executed in the first century of the common era.
>
>
> > One of the main problems with Christianity is that it has never
>been
> > properly tried.
>
>
>I wonder what you mean by "properly tried". I'd say that 2000 years
>is enough time to try something out- and if the supposed "pure and
>good" teachings of this doubtful christ are supposedly layered under
>the evil manipulations of politics, and they still haven't been
>seperated out and actualized in two millenia, chances are, they never
>will be.
>
>Teaching people to be kind and generous, respectful and merciful is
>nothing new; pagans had similar virtues. Why should they need to put
>aside traditional pagan religion and try this new focus on virtue
>under the banner of another religion like christianity? A virtuous
>person is a virtuous person, regardless of religion; christianity is
>not now, nor was it ever a pre-requisite to being a good person.
>
>
> > Also my name is Quintus, not Jesus or
> > God so I have no right to say you are all wrong and will be
>condemned
> > if you do not wish to follow monotheism.
>
>
>
>Congratulations! You have managed to keep a perspective that many
>other christians throughout history have been unable to see or
>maintain.
>
>
>
> > Sometimes if I warn a person
> > about following something I consider wrong my approach is always a
> > word of caution, no more -
>
>
>Do you mean that you sometimes "warn" people about Polytheism or
>other non-christian religions?
>
>
> > Besides, no Ancient Gods have ever appeared to me, neither Jesus,
> > Mohammed or Marian apparitions. We all base our beliefs on more or
> > less blind faith in realms that are not at all material and
>visible.
>
>
>Well, you speak from your experience, and I speak from mine- My Gods
>HAVE appeared to me; they have worked in my life; I have felt their
>power, and I have a faith based on experience, not a faith based on
>hope or non-experience.
>
>
>
>
> > Therefore, never being sure in a scientific - like sense,
>
>
>
>Nor does a person need to use the slide-ruler of science for any kind
>of certainty- science can explain things, but it cannot find meaning;
>and it has no power to find Truth- truth to science is nothing more
>than the smallest margin of error. Science is a poor tool by which to
>be "sure" of anything by.
>
>
>My Regards,
>
>
>Galus Valerius
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Land Ownership/French (or is it Flemish?) Fries
From:	"Kaeso Cassius Oceanus" <sountendo@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:20:19 -0000

Salvete!

I am a new citizen, and I decided to jump in with both podae. I
thought I would just join both major threads.

I have been interested in knowing how I would go about donating 150
acres of land I may soon be coming into to Nova Roma. The land is
located in the Oregon wilderness, about 10-15 miles East of Portland.

In the postscript in a message in relation to this, I saw Vibius
Ambrosius Caseariensis make the following statement, which I would
like to respond to:

> I am surprised that any part of Canada runs so far South (but I
>only
>discovered yesterday it is a bare 165 years old - I thought it was
>much
>older than the USA). Isn't the 48th parallel the border?
>Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

Actually, the border is the forty-eighth only in the West. In the
East, the border is, variably, the St. Laurence River and the Great
Lakes. (And a tiny jag in the Manitoba-Minnesota border that I have
never understood the reason for the existance of....)

In the matter of the fries, I don't understand why anyone would use
mayonaisse on fries! Of course, I use haggis as my fry sauce, so my
opinion on the subject may be somewhat, shall we say, abnormal? ;-)

Valete!

Kaeso Cassius Oceanus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma]Roman cops
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 05:41:32 -0700 (PDT)

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:

> Well of course it was the rich who ran the show but
> also who were honour-bound to return something to
> the community which had allowed them to get and
> protected their wealth - a far cry from most of
> today's wealthy.
>
The modern "community" has allready taken it apon
themselves to "return" something to themselves through
absurd rates of taxiation. Why would the wealthy want
to "return" the remainder of the wealth they created
to a greedy community with the morals of a bandit
gang, that siezies wealth simply because they have the
power to do so?

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Citizenship
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 05:52:10 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Lithia Viridia Et Censores,

I Am the Paterfamilis of Sicinia.
Please consider this post preapproval of the
application of this prespective citizen if she chooses
to reapply with membership in the Gens Sicinia.

--- mscommunication@attbi.com wrote:
> Well, after almost a month of waiting, I have still
> not
> heard back from the censors about creating my own
> gens,
> Astria, nor have I heard from the paterfamilias of
> Viridia, the gens I had applied for originally, as
> to
> whether or not I was accepted. I can only assume,
> then,
> that the Viridia family does not accept my
> application,
> nor do the censors accept my application to create a
> new
> gens. Therefore, I wish Nova Roma the best of luck
> with
> the creation of this new nation, and I will go back
> to
> being just a plain old US Citizen (the OTHER nova
> roma).
>
>
> ~The former Lithia Viridia (and hopeful Astria)
>
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma]Roman cops
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:54:25 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,
During the Republican period there were no offical
"police" in Roma. Magistrates could order thier
Lictors to "arrest" a citizen or to summon him to
appear before him, and this was as close as Republican
Roma came to modern Police. Divus Augustus reorganized
the city with the Cohortium Vigilum assuming the roles
of modern Police and Fire fighters. Divus Augustus
divided Roma into 14 regions. a Cohort of 1000 men led
by a tribune was responsible for two of the regions
giving Roma a "police" force (which doubled as the
firemen) of 7000 men.

--- Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net> wrote:
> I asked this question a good while ago, but I
> thought I would ask
> again. What was the equivalent of today's Police
> and/or Security Guards in Rome(or did they)?
>
>
> Sextus Cornelius Cotta
>
> --
> Mac OSX iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
> YahooMsgr: iguard2
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
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Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Subscribe MLC
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:01:32 +0200

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

You are in the "best_16_players" of Ludi Circenses?
Do you want became the BEST CHARIOTEER OF THE 2755???

So, subscribe the coming soon MAXIMI LUDI CIRCENSES sending an e-mail to
sacro_barese_impero@libero.it within your tactics!
You can leave your name in the Nova Roman history of sport being applauded
by the Circus as an hero.

Hurry up, people, tomorrow is the deadline!

Read the rules at
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/mlc.htm

This players are invited to subscribe:

T. Arminius Hyacinthus
M. Minucius Rufus
C. Flavius Diocletianus
M. Villus Limitanus
G. Cornelius Ahenobarbus
A. Solaris Draco
T. Labienus Fortunatus
M. S. Curio Britannicus

The following players too are invited to subscribe it :
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Appius Arminius Claudianus
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Marcus Arminius Maior

They could run if there will not all the 16 best players.

HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Subscribe MLC
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 14:17:34 +0000

Salvete:

A question about the ludi: Is there a place where things go on really,
or is it some kind of bingo ball being announced by somebody everytime
there is a winner. I've never been able to log into any games, just winners
and loosers lists.

Galerius Peregrinator.


>From: "Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com>,<Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>CC:
><Cohors_Aedilis_C_Fabius_Q@yahoogroups.com>,<Egressus@yahoogroups.com>,<NovaRomaWebSites@yahoogroups.com>,<NRHispania@yahoogroups.com>,<NR_Italia@yahoogroups.com>,<novaroma_europe@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Subscribe MLC
>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:01:32 +0200
>
>Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.
>
>You are in the "best_16_players" of Ludi Circenses?
>Do you want became the BEST CHARIOTEER OF THE 2755???
>
>So, subscribe the coming soon MAXIMI LUDI CIRCENSES sending an e-mail to
>sacro_barese_impero@libero.it within your tactics!
>You can leave your name in the Nova Roman history of sport being applauded
>by the Circus as an hero.
>
>Hurry up, people, tomorrow is the deadline!
>
>Read the rules at
>http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/mlc.htm
>
>This players are invited to subscribe:
>
> T. Arminius Hyacinthus
> M. Minucius Rufus
> C. Flavius Diocletianus
> M. Villus Limitanus
> G. Cornelius Ahenobarbus
> A. Solaris Draco
> T. Labienus Fortunatus
> M. S. Curio Britannicus
>
>The following players too are invited to subscribe it :
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Appius Arminius Claudianus
> Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
> Marcus Arminius Maior
>
>They could run if there will not all the 16 best players.
>
>HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
>HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
>HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
>HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
>HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
>HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
>
>Valete
>Franciscus Apulus Caesar
>-------------------------------------------
>Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
>Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
>Scriba Curatoris Araneum
>-------------------------------------------
>Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
>Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
>Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
>http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
>Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
>Yahoo Messanger: fapulus
>
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Richard Harris
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:16:34 -0000

Salvete omnes,

Some of my classmated vacationing in St. John's Newfoundland met
Richard Harris there in the mid 70's when they were shooting the film
Orca. They also said that he was a very nice guy, down to earth and
actually bought rounds for the patrons all evening. He was a kind of
cornerstone actor to many of us baby boomers and the movies he played
in were always pretty good to excellent. When I heard he was getting
cancer treatments a few weeks ago, the news said he was doing ok. It
is sad things took a turn for the worst. I am sure he will be missed
by everyone.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> That's a shame that Richard Harris died. I met him quite by
accident in 1994
> or 1995 in Tenerife, while he was making Abraham in Morrocco (I
think). He
> was a very nice man. I used to own a cocktail bar at at hotel
swimming pool,
> and he just walked in, sat down and started drinking Foster's. He
spent
> about a week at my bar chatting with me about his life.
> I didn't know who he was at first, but there were women following
him
> around. I asked him if he had been to Tenerife before because he
looked
> familiar. I then said that he reminded me of Sean Connery :-p
because he had
> nice eyes, a very pleasant voice, and spoke beautiful English. He
laughed
> and said that he was also an actor and his name was Richard and
maybe that
> is why he looked familiar to me. He was verrrrrry chatty and a very
open
> person. Surely, he was someone whose stardom didn't go to his head.
What a
> shame that he died.
>
> Valete,
> Diana Moravia Aventina
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:haase@c...]
> Verzonden: vrijdag 25 oktober 2002 23:09
> Aan: Nova-Roma@y...
> Onderwerp: [Nova-Roma] Richard Harris
>
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> This Just In: Actor Richard Harris has died at 72.
>
> He played the emperor Marcus Aurelius in "Gladiator", and the
> dictator Lucius Cornelius Sulla in an upcoming TV miniseries.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On religious beliefs
From:	"Circe Aeaea" <osculum@bigpond.com.au>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:18:42 +1000

Salve,

Publius Tarquitius Rufus said...
>>There
is NO reason why this heated, hurtful, and disgusting discussion need
to take place on this board! Take it to a diffrent board! Take it
somewhere else so that those who want to see it can, and this board
will be focused on important issues such as revenue growth,
membership growth, sharing of ROMAN values, and other items that show
a POSITIVE strength to what we ALL are here for: The birth of a new
Rome. Take the religious babble elsewhere, please!<<

I don't really think this religious discussion is as negative or heated as
it _could_ be. Sure, perhaps it should move to the Religio Romana list, but
I'm finding it quite interesting. But then discussion of religion is one of
my main interests. And of course, speaking to each other through email
(which is frequently inadequate for good discussion as opposed to
face-to-face) often seems to result in anger, huffiness and hurt feelings -
I guess thats why people use emoticons - not that I've seen any in this
discussion (haven't really been looking). Perhaps this discussion is not as
negative as it seems in email 'text'?

I thought that what Taurinus wrote below was very clear, unemotional and
useful information... It cleared things up a bit for me in this
department...

>>The early christians were not persecuted and killed for their
religious beliefs; they were killed for breaking the law. They
categorically refused to make offerings of incense to the Genius of
the Emperor- which was a civic duty that all Romans were expected to
carry out, and to fail to do so was an offence tantamount to treason.

Judges in Rome told the christians that were brought before them that
they would be executed if they did not make the token sacrifice- in
fact, sometimes those judges gave them many chances to do this. The
judges were in no hurry to kill christians.

By not burning incense or making offerings to the Genuis of the Royal
Family, the chrisitans were striking at the heart and soul of Roman
order. Also, very outspoken christians like Justin were abusive
towards the Emperor and towards venerable pagan customs- calling them
demonic and ignorant. Christians would attend public State religious
festivals and be openly mocking- these are the reasons why they
were "persecuted"- because they were breaking the law. Marcus
Aurelius accuses them (rightly) of public "histrionics" and of a
desire to make a spectacle of themselves and achieve noteriety by
getting themselves killed.

All over the classical world, from the time of Greece onward, a
person was allowed to believe as they wanted, so long as they did not
publically offend the State or city Gods- because such an act was
believed to be dangerous, as it could draw the wrath of that God down
on the city or nation. Christians were doing this. It was against the
laws of that day.


And there was one more thing- aside from being scornful of
traditional religious practises and Gods, and aside from treasonously
not making the pious and expected sacrifices required of all loyal
citizens, the christian cult was originally a type of "mystery" cult-
and it refused to allow public scrutiny into its religious rites- and
at the time of several emperors, for instance, Marcus Aurelius- it
was illegal for more than a given amount of people to gather in
private for any reason, without special permission. This was to
discourage revolutions and treasonous plotting. Christians DID gather
in secret, without permission- another violation of the law that
could cost you your life. Finally, they also had young children with
them behind these closed doors, and they refused to say what they
were doing with them. This struck the government as strange and
potentially scandalous.


I just wanted to place my three cents in here, in regards to
the "persecution" of christians- it didn't begin as a matter of Rome
simply being intolerant of another religion- it began with christians
making spectacles of themselves and basically committing suicide by
breaking the law publically and then refusing to do as their judges
asked them and recant and just burn a token amount of incense.

Later on, after they had made good villains out of themselves by
openly mocking everything that the Roman Empire held holy, and
calling it's Gods demons, they would be used as convienient
scapegoats and targets by the government- a fate that they
effectively brought on themselves, and to be clear, they loved it- it
gave them the chance of "holy martyrdom" that most of them were
obssesed with achieving.

Rome would have put to death the followers of ANY religion that had
acted as the early christians acted.

Taurinus<<

Hope no one was annoyed that I didn't snip that, I thought it was
interesting enough to include all...

Vale

Tullia Sentia Silvana.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Revenue Growth and religion
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:12:37 -0000

Salve Publi et omnes,

If you would go back on the list over the last 2 months you will see
that revenue growth, land purchasing and so called "positive" things
also evolved into heated discussions. There is no escaping good
debate and heated discussion on any subject brought up; just don't
get personal and nasty in my opinion.

Regards - Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "William Rogers" <wlr107@y...> wrote:
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
> I am new to Nova Roma, but not to this discussion. Let us remember
> one key item here. Nove Roma does NOT sanction ANY choice of
> religious views one over the other. Nova Roma allows ALL to be
> represented, and NOT a view over another, but ALL ARE TREATED AS
> EQUALS!!
>
> Each and every choice a religion has made in the past (as well as
the
> present and the future choices) SHALL have an impact on the world
at
> large. There is no way it cannot happen.
>
> But note this as you rant and rave about this: You know why ALL
> religions fail? HHHMMM? DO YOU? I will tell you why. It is actually
> VERY simple:
>
>
> All religions have one thing in common;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> They are developed and controlled by MEN AND WOMEN! Human have
egos,
> humans have emotions, humans make mistakes! Get over it people!
There
> is NO reason why this heated, hurtful, and disgusting discussion
need
> to take place on this board! Take it to a diffrent board! Take it
> somewhere else so that those who want to see it can, and this board
> will be focused on important issues such as revenue growth,
> membership growth, sharing of ROMAN values, and other items that
show
> a POSITIVE strength to what we ALL are here for: The birth of a new
> Rome. Take the religious babble elsewhere, please!
>
> I do NOT say you should feel as you do. You should have those
views.
> But please tear at some else's soul elsewhere, not here.
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Genuis
From:	Larry Freeman <larrythebear@askmamafreeman.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 14:45:33 -0400

Salvete!!!!
TIBI GRATIAS AGO, Pompiea, I wil check it out. May the DEIUS ROMANUM smile
upon you.
Valete!!!
Laureinicus Flavius Magus.



At 12:43 AM 10/25/02 +0000, you wrote:
>---Salvete Flavius et Omnes:
>
>Indeed I can assist:
>
>Please visit www.novaroma.org and visit the Album Gentium section.
>Those gentes with their own webpages will have them displayed on
>their respective pages.
>
>A few civities have webpages of their own too.
>
>Happy surfing,
>Pompeia
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@y..., "Lawrence D. Freeman" <larrythebear@a...> wrote:
> > Salvete!!
> > Can anyone tell me about how to login to the different Gens'
> > webpages. I've heard that the different families have sites of
>their
> > own. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
> > Avete!!!
> > Laurenicus Flavius Magus.
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] citizenship
From:	Arnamentia Aurelia <arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:50:51 -0700 (PDT)

I also have not heard back about my citizenship, and
it has been nearly two months since I submitted an
application. I do still enjoy the discussions on the
list, but I think that a prompt response from Nova
Roma to the applicant is necessary to maintain the
applicant's interest and enthusiasm in the nation. It
is very discouraging to be on the waiting end of such
an interaction.

Respectfully,
Arnamentia Aurelia

______________________________________________________

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 00:59:34 +0000
From: mscommunication@attbi.com
Subject: Citizenship

Well, after almost a month of waiting, I have still
not heard back from the censors about creating my own
gens, Astria, nor have I heard from the paterfamilias
of Viridia, the gens I had applied for originally, as
to whether or not I was accepted. I can only assume,
then, that the Viridia family does not accept my
application, nor do the censors accept my application
to create a new gens. Therefore, I wish Nova Roma the
best of luck with the creation of this new nation, and
I will go back to being just a plain old US Citizen
(the OTHER nova roma).

~The former Lithia Viridia (and hopeful Astria)


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Genuis
From:	Larry Freeman <larrythebear@askmamafreeman.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:08:01 -0400

Salvete!!! Pompiea, I must admitt a typo. It should have bee GRATIAS TIBI
AGO. My appologies.
Valete!!! Laurenicus Flavius Magus.


At 02:45 PM 10/26/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Salvete!!!!
>TIBI GRATIAS AGO, Pompiea, I wil check it out. May the DEIUS ROMANUM smile
>upon you.
>Valete!!!
>Laureinicus Flavius Magus.
>
>
>
>At 12:43 AM 10/25/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >---Salvete Flavius et Omnes:
> >
> >Indeed I can assist:
> >
> >Please visit www.novaroma.org and visit the Album Gentium section.
> >Those gentes with their own webpages will have them displayed on
> >their respective pages.
> >
> >A few civities have webpages of their own too.
> >
> >Happy surfing,
> >Pompeia
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@y..., "Lawrence D. Freeman" <larrythebear@a...> wrote:
> > > Salvete!!
> > > Can anyone tell me about how to login to the different Gens'
> > > webpages. I've heard that the different families have sites of
> >their
> > > own. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
> > > Avete!!!
> > > Laurenicus Flavius Magus.
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] citizenship
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 13:05:29 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,
I Invite you to reapply to join as a member of Gens
Sicinia. My policy is to reply to the Censors within
24 hours of recieving an aplication.

--- Arnamentia Aurelia <arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> I also have not heard back about my citizenship, and
> it has been nearly two months since I submitted an
> application. I do still enjoy the discussions on the
> list, but I think that a prompt response from Nova
> Roma to the applicant is necessary to maintain the
> applicant's interest and enthusiasm in the nation.
> It
> is very discouraging to be on the waiting end of
> such
> an interaction.
>
> Respectfully,
> Arnamentia Aurelia
>
>
______________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 00:59:34 +0000
> From: mscommunication@attbi.com
> Subject: Citizenship
>
> Well, after almost a month of waiting, I have still
> not heard back from the censors about creating my
> own
> gens, Astria, nor have I heard from the
> paterfamilias
> of Viridia, the gens I had applied for originally,
> as
> to whether or not I was accepted. I can only
> assume,
> then, that the Viridia family does not accept my
> application, nor do the censors accept my
> application
> to create a new gens. Therefore, I wish Nova Roma
> the
> best of luck with the creation of this new nation,
> and
> I will go back to being just a plain old US Citizen
> (the OTHER nova roma).
>
> ~The former Lithia Viridia (and hopeful Astria)
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Constantinus et Teodosius
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:31:54 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : “Christopher L. Wood“ <xwood@usa.net>

>
>From this moment [The Second General Council, 1134 AUC], Arianism in all its
>forms lost its place within the Empire. Its developments among the
>barbarians were political rather than doctrinal. Ulphilas (311-388), who
>
If you read what of St. Paul is not considered to be later putting of words into his mouth, his position is very much the Arian one. Though the modern church takes them as synonymous, the fact that he distinguishes use of his Lord or Christ from his God shows that he does not regard them as identical. Closest of the known Western sects to Arianism is probably the Jehovah's Witnesses, though they appear to have reinvented it for themselves and do not represent any underground tradition re-emergent.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: On religious beliefs (was: Constantinus et Teodosius)
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:39:30 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : g_valerius_taurinus <g_valerius_taurinus@yahoo.com>
>
>
>The early christians were not persecuted and killed for their
>religious beliefs; they were killed for breaking the law. They
>categorically refused to make offerings of incense to the Genius of
>the Emperor- which was a civic duty that all Romans were expected to
>carry out, and to fail to do so was an offence tantamount to treason.
>
I pointed out earlier I believe, that there is a very close parallel between Christianity then and Rastafarianism now. Neither is respectable, the god-man is recognised as symbolic by the more intelligent but not by the slum majority to whom the cult appeals, and of course practice of the feaatures central to the cult are against the law of themselves, not because the cult is itself banned. Who is to say what, centuries hence when the world's centre is Brazil and few can tell the difference between the British and American Empires of old, that world might say of its Rasta martyrs?
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: On religious beliefs (was: Constantinus et Teodosius)
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:53:29 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : g_valerius_taurinus <g_valerius_taurinus@yahoo.com>
>
they
>needed a messiah, but the vast majority of the rest of the world had
>and still has religions that teach them to work and do things for
>themselves, and not to expect some god to come and do everything

Every religion has a Messiah figure and most are still waiting for Him. Pretty obvious really: of course we want some great Power to put everything right for us; so much easier than having to do it for ourselves! And that is the first great danger of Messiahs: why bother when He will fix it? The second is worse and at present time positively dangerous, as 'fundamentalists' - more like ignorant literalists - of all 3 Biblical faiths accept the End to be very Nigh and the Messiah ready to arrive following Armageddon. Therefore, no Armageddon, no Messiah, Peace in Palestine-Israel = opposition to the Divine Plan for God's Kingdom on Earth. There is no necessity to cite the number of Christian fundies buzzing round Bush who have been since Reagan's time, or fundy influence in the Knesset and on Hizb'ullah: they all need the same thing and that is Armageddon.

for
>you. Pagan religion was about responsibility and duty, not
>scapegoating blame and guilt off onto a messiah and expecting him to
>suffer for your mistakes and then come back one day to make the

Local churches are running a campaign under the slogan "Jesus gives you the Power to Change". I consider this offensively patronising twice over: One, who the hell are they to decide whether I need to change? Two: If Jesus gives that Power, I must be powerless to do damn-all for myself. Maybe I am, but I want to discover that for myself. Were they to phrase it "God is the Power to Change" I should agree wholeheartedly, accepting that God is a term for some 'force' even more fundamental to existence than quantum foam and that that 'thing' exists within me could I but know how to align with it.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma]Roman cops
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:59:56 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>

>again. What was the equivalent of today's Police
>and/or Security Guards in Rome(or did they)?
>
>
the Praetorian Guard had republican origins in a city fire and emergency watch and there was a similar organisation later, again mainly concerned with fire. With so much timber construction, inadequate water supply, none of it pressurised, and jerry-built construction, fire and collapse were serious threats. As for police, that all appears to have been a matter for local vigilantes. Rome is the original privatised society with as little as possible done by the State and that includes public order.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] French Fries
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 22:07:04 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : “Brighn (Paul Kershaw)“ <brighn@yahoo.com>

Yes, call me an ethnocentric Yankee, but I now realize the error of my ways. It's rotten malt, not rotten grape juice. >=)
>
At least on this side of the Atlantic we make them from potatoes. As far as I can ascertain from MacDonald's you mash or grind the potatos first and then reconstitute them into fried potato sponge!
Vibius Ambrosius.


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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Constantinus et Teodosius
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:44:37 +0200

Salve G Valerius Taurinus,

I was about to write a similar email to yours, but I have to admit, you said
everything I had to say in a more elequent manner than I ever could. Your
email expressed what many Pagans feel in our hearts.
In other words: hear hear!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: g_valerius_taurinus [mailto:g_valerius_taurinus@yahoo.com]


Taurinus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Citizenship
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:24:13 +0200

Salve,

I hope

My apologies to anyone who has applied to gens Moravia in the last year and
not received a reply. Our Paterfamilias has not replied to any emails in
about a year.

Since last week, I am now the Materfamilias of Gens Moravia (by default!). I
logged in to the website area where the Pater/Materfamilas can approve
applications, and found 2 pending applications that have been there for 7
months. I emailed the applicants, but the emails bounced. Again, my
apologies on behalf of Gens Moravia. This will not happen again!

The table is quite empty at mealtimes, the villa is echoeing, and the
bedrooms are all empty, since I am the only one left in my Gens :-) So
anyone wishing to apply to my Gens is more than welcome and will get a fast
response.

Requirements needed of applicants to Gens Moravia: the applicant must laugh
at the Materfamilias' bad jokes, at least be Pagan-friendly (I don't want
you kids trying to burn me at the stake in the macronation), & willing to
accept Venus as our Patron Goddess.

That's it!

Salve!
Diana Moravia Aventina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] PROUD TO BE A ROMAN "PAGAN!"
From:	GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:09:41 -0700 (PDT)

SALVETE OMNES! The main reason I joined Nova Roma was
because of the RELIGIO ROMANA!!! And I firmly believe
that what made Roma great was not only our Roman
virtues, BUT THE OLD REPUBLICAN FORM OF THE RELIGIO
and the CVLTVS DEORVM and devotion to the MOS
MAIORVM!!! VALETE! FRATER GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, PGI.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] PROUD TO BE A ROMAN "PAGAN!"
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:56:29 -0400

I agree with you 100%! The Religio Romana was the main reason I joined the Republic.

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 10/26/2002 5:09:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, ivlianvs309@yahoo.com writes:

>
>
> SALVETE OMNES! The main reason I joined Nova Roma was
> because of the RELIGIO ROMANA!!! And I firmly believe
> that what made Roma great was not only our Roman
> virtues, BUT THE OLD REPUBLICAN FORM OF THE RELIGIO
> and the CVLTVS DEORVM and devotion to the MOS
> MAIORVM!!! VALETE! FRATER GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, PGI.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: PROUD TO BE A ROMAN "PAGAN!"
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:01:54 -0000

Salve Gai,

I do not know how far back on the emails some of you have read. No
one here wants to run down or cause problems for Religio Romano. The
whole argument started with strong criticisms against the Christian
sects. It is the Christians and single God believers who are
criticized and put on the defensive in this debate, not the pagans.
Also paganism has many other religions world wide besides the Roman
religion and some of those other world religions do not have perfect
track records or all the answers either.

As magistrates (junior in my case) we took an oath to protect and
honour religio Romano. This oath will be always honored and
respected. If we threw some of the condemnations, criticisms and
comments similar to the ones against Religio Romano we would be
breaking our oaths and rightly lose our office. This situation
certainly puts the non - pagan element at a bad disadvantage in
debates like these. Also,in some of the arguments I begin to sense
the same lack of respect and sensitivity that you are accusing the
Christians, Jews and Muslims of.
Please take these thoughts into consideration in further discussion
or logically speaking you'll be shooting yourselves in the foot.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@y...> wrote:
> SALVETE OMNES! The main reason I joined Nova Roma was
> because of the RELIGIO ROMANA!!! And I firmly believe
> that what made Roma great was not only our Roman
> virtues, BUT THE OLD REPUBLICAN FORM OF THE RELIGIO
> and the CVLTVS DEORVM and devotion to the MOS
> MAIORVM!!! VALETE! FRATER GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, PGI.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:18:34 +0000

Salvete Omnes Nova Roma Forum:

To date the prevailing discussion on the religious influences of Roman
antiquita, how Rome fell, and opinions on certain religious beliefs in
contrast to one's own has been handled very well by all posters.

However, when we delve into the perceived religious influences of
macronational politics, and making stereotypical, referenceless statements
about 'fundamentalists' and groups of macronational churches, this sort of
thing wanes in its academic usefulness, and its constructive properties with
respect to Nova Roma.

For every faith, Christian, Muslim, Judaism, Paganism, there are
fundamentalists. Nothing we can do about that.

I would venture to say, however, that there are 'few' true 'fundies' here in
Nova Roma, as the essence of fundamentalism is 'it's my way or the
highway'.......or.......'you actually believe that? Man, are you stunned!".
How could we work as closely as we do, carrying this type of attitude?

So comments about macronational fundamentalist influences really are not
much on topic any more, nor is 'venting' about another's religion in the
absence of any academic/historical/cultural application to either Nova Roma
or Roma Antiquita.

I think posts which express dissention with another's religious belief
system should be taken elsewhere, either in private, or on the religio list,
where the topic is more 'religion centered', but common courtesy and a
certain degree of referencing is required there also.

This forum is the window through which the public views us. There are many
here of various faiths, who practise humbly and contribute to the growth of
Nova Roma, respect the religio, and the like. Not everyone is going to
agree on every element of even their own professed religion anyway. I have
seen rather powerful arguments on pagan-centered religious list, and
Christian lists, respectively.

Great discussion...but let us keep our discussion fact-oriented and topic
oriented, SVP.

Pompeia......




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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: citizenship
From:	"lithia_cassia" <mscommunication@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:16:43 -0000

Wow! Thank you all for your offers and support. Before checking the
boards today, I had received an email from pater Cassius offering a
place in his gens, and I accepted the offer. I am now officially a
Nova Roman citizen! Woo!

Anyway, thanks again, and I really hope that this problem is resolved
for future applicants.

Vale,

Lithia Cassia

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: citizenship
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:38:59 -0000

Salve Lithia!

We are all glad and honored to have you join us. The more, the
merrier I say. I'm off to a big Halloween party tonight and will have
a few drinks in your honour.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "lithia_cassia" <mscommunication@a...> wrote:
> Wow! Thank you all for your offers and support. Before checking the
> boards today, I had received an email from pater Cassius offering a
> place in his gens, and I accepted the offer. I am now officially a
> Nova Roman citizen! Woo!
>
> Anyway, thanks again, and I really hope that this problem is
resolved
> for future applicants.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lithia Cassia