Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Bestowing a Further Honor;
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 20:42:10 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I approach you this evening to complete a promise made to a good friend
some months ago. There were people to see and things to do before this
moment could properly come, but the details have been taken care of.

The title of "Beneficarius" is one which means literaly in Latin (as I
have been led to believe) "Benefitted One". These titles were bestowed
during the extent of the Roman Empire for those Romans who were trusted
by a specific Magistrate or Officer, and who carried a staff with
certain markings to show thier authority and position. A Beneficarius
delivering a message was considered to be speaking with voice of whom he
represented. During my tenure in Nova Roma, I have found it to be
advantageous to name only one such Citizen of Nova Roma to that; for me
very personal bestored honor; until the present time, and that was
Praetor and Senator Pompeia Cornelia Strabo. She is a good lomg-term
friend, but even further, I trust her with my words and my messages, as
I would my own family. We have not always agreed, and agreement is not
always necessary for a trust between individuals, to my mind, and I have
never regretted my action in this appointment.

Now it is time for me to make another such appointment, to another good
long-time friend, whom I trust, as I have said more than once with my
"wallet, my dog and my wife (not necessarily in that order!!)."

As Praefectus Fabrum of the Sodalitas Egressus, I hereby appoint Aedile
and Senator Caeso Fabius Quintillianus to the position of my
Beneficarius to serve with Beneficarius Strabo in the Sodalitas Egressus
as my joint Assistants in the management of this Sodalitas. My previous
second in command Senator Gaius Marius Merrulus, has agreed, because of
his reduction in involvement with the Sodalitas Egressus, to a certain
degree, to serve as an Sodalitas Advisor to the Senior Staff, therein.
Dominus Praefectus Serapio and the other appointed Praefecti with thier
appointed Scribae will continue to serve in thier respective positions.
They have all done a very excellent job in the efforts that they have
undertaken, and I am extremely proud of each of them and thier
achievments in the Sodalitas Egressus.

I am both pleased and honored to make this appointment, and to be able
to complete a promise made in Norway, when I was able to meet with
Senator Quintillianus face to face, and discuss our many mutual ideas,
and those aspects of our different cultures and backgrounds which was
for me intensely interesting.

While it is true that both Senator Quintillianus and I are friends, I
have many friends here in Nova Roma. However, his close association in
our many discussions regarding a variety of topics, his support of me
and my support of him, and our to-date very close agreements on a wide
variety of subjects has determined me that the time is right for this
appointment. This is not to say that we agree on everything, but in
very similar ways with my other Beneficarius, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo,
we can agree on occasion to disagree, and get along with the things that
need to be done.

I am further pleased to say that appointments such as I have made
previously and today, are not in any way political in nature. I am not
a very good politician, as I have said here many times before. I tend
to say what I think, I tend to be stubborn and opinionated, and I have
on occasion been difficult to deal with. Further, I tend, I suppose (as
many have said) to wear my heart upon my sleeve. Both of these Ctizens,
above named, have not only dealt generously and sympathetically with me
on many occasions, but have been patient with me in my many faults, and
have my complete trust, and although we may not always agree, we can
always be assured to concur on our agreement to disagree and then
efficiently to carry on with our respective and agreed upon commitments,
without letting our disagreements interfere with our mutual admiration.

My thanks to you Honored Beneficarius Caseo Fabius Quintillianus, for
your very kind support and friendship, and may this appointment bring
you a certain satisfaction. My additional thanks to the Honorable
Beneficarius Pompeia Cornelia Stabo for her past friendship and her
tireless services to both the Sodalitas Militarium and the Sodalitas
Egressus.

Respectfully, and With the Utmost Gratitude to Both of These Good
Friends;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Praefectus Fabrum -- Sodalitas Egressus -- Nova Roma


Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Bestowing a Further Honor;
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:56:19 -0700 (PDT)

Marcus Minucius Audens writes:

[...]
> As Praefectus Fabrum of the Sodalitas Egressus, I
> hereby appoint Aedile and Senator Caeso Fabius
> Quintillianus to the position of my Beneficarius
> to serve with Beneficarius Strabo in the Sodalitas
> Egressus as my joint Assistants in the management
> of this Sodalitas.

Congratulations to Caeso Fabius Quintilianus! I hope
this will be the beginning of even greater things
for the Sodalitas Egressus.


=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Subscribe MLC
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 01:51:03 -0000

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Gaio Galerio Peregrinator S.P.D.

Please, read this part of the official regulations:

4) How the races will be?
4.1. ACCIDENTS.
Before doing the calculations of a race, the editor determine who has
an accident. For it, he roll one dice 0-100 for every chariot. The
resultant number will be its percentage of accident.
- The drivers with tactics 1 will have 0 to 15 percentage of accident
always. 0 to 25 if there are one or more drivers with tactics 4 or 5.
- The drivers with tactics 2 will have 0 to 20 percentage of accident
always. 0 to 35 if there are one or more drivers with tactics 4 or 5.
- The drivers with tactics 3 will have 0 to 10 percentage always.
- The drivers with tactics 4 will have 0 to 15 percentage always. 0
to 25 if there are other drivers with tactics 4.
- The drivers with tactics 5 will have 0 to 15 always. 0 to 25 if
there are other drivers with tactics 5.
- The drivers with tactics 6 will have 0 to 5 percentage always. 0 to
20 if there are other drivers with tactics 4 or 5.

4.2) CALCULATION OF THE RACES.
After determining which chariots (if any) have been eliminated from a
race due to an accident, the editor must calculate the order in which
the remaining teams finished the race.
The editor will roll one dice 0-10 for every player. This will be the
Value of Race (VR) of every car.
To know the final position of a chariot in the race the VR of every
player is divided by the sum of all the VR and the result is
multiplied by 50. This way we have its Chance to Win (CW).
For example, if there is a race with 4 chariots with these VR:
6,5,4,2 then the first chariot, with the VR 6, would have the
following Chance to to Win: 6/17 (17 is the sum of 6+5+4+2) x 50 =
17.6 (rounding, 18). The CW of the first chariot will be 18 points.
The second chariot, with VR 5, would have 5/17x50 = 14.7 (rounding,
15), therefore its CW is 15 points.

The tactics modify the CW of the following way:
Tactics 1) +6 points.
Tactics 2) +8 points.
Tactics 3) No points. The tactics 4 and 5 do not affect it.
Tactics 4) +2 points. The tactics 5 do not affect it.
Tactics 5) +2 points. The tactics 4 do not affect it.
Tactics 6) +4 points.

Assign each team a specific range of numbers out of a series of 100
that is equal to the team's Chance to Win. Assign these team ranges
consecutively. In our sample race, for example, Chariot 1's range
(with tactics 2) would be 01 through 25 (18+7). Chariot 2's range
(with tactics 4) would be 26 through 40.

The final step for the Editor is to roll a dice 0-100 to determine
the order of finish. The chariot within whose range the first dice 0-
100 roll falls is the team that finishes the race in first place. The
chariot within whose range the second dice 0-100 roll falls is the
team that finishes the race in second place. The chariot within whose
range the third D100 roll falls is the chariot that finishes the race
in third place. And so on. Once a chariot's position has been
determined, ignore subsequent rolls that fall within its range and
roll again.
In our sample race, the first die roll result is 25. This makes
chariot 2 (Range 26-40) the first place winner.
..............
As you can read, our Ludi Circenses are not a real place and not
a "bingo". When you give us a tactic for the race you have a specific
percentage to win. Of course, you need a very good luck, but the Luck
hasn't everything about.

Sorry, my english is very bad, but if I understand you had problems
to subscribe and partecipe to the Ludi. Don't worry, it's very easy
and you'll can log in during the next races (I hope with me as Curule
Aedile ;-).
If you have other doubts or questions, please contact me or Illustrus
Gnaeus Salix Galaicus (creator and written of the virtual races).

Vale
FAC


> A question about the ludi: Is there a place where things go on
really,
> or is it some kind of bingo ball being announced by somebody
everytime
> there is a winner. I've never been able to log into any games,
just winners
> and loosers lists.
>
> Galerius Peregrinator.
>
>
> >From: "Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@y...
> >To: <NovaRoma-Announce@y...>,<Nova-Roma@y...>
> >CC:
>
><Cohors_Aedilis_C_Fabius_Q@y...>,<Egressus@y...>,<NovaRomaWebSites@y.
..>,<NRHispania@y...>,<NR_Italia@y...>,<novaroma_europe@y...>
> >Subject: [Nova-Roma] Subscribe MLC
> >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:01:32 +0200
> >
> >Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.
> >
> >You are in the "best_16_players" of Ludi Circenses?
> >Do you want became the BEST CHARIOTEER OF THE 2755???
> >
> >So, subscribe the coming soon MAXIMI LUDI CIRCENSES sending an e-
mail to
> >sacro_barese_impero@l... within your tactics!
> >You can leave your name in the Nova Roman history of sport being
applauded
> >by the Circus as an hero.
> >
> >Hurry up, people, tomorrow is the deadline!
> >
> >Read the rules at
> >http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/mlc.htm
> >
> >This players are invited to subscribe:
> >
> > T. Arminius Hyacinthus
> > M. Minucius Rufus
> > C. Flavius Diocletianus
> > M. Villus Limitanus
> > G. Cornelius Ahenobarbus
> > A. Solaris Draco
> > T. Labienus Fortunatus
> > M. S. Curio Britannicus
> >
> >The following players too are invited to subscribe it :
> > Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> > Appius Arminius Claudianus
> > Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
> > Marcus Arminius Maior
> >
> >They could run if there will not all the 16 best players.
> >
> >HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP !
> >HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP !
> >HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP !
> >HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP !
> >HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
HURRY UP !
> >HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP ! HURRY UP !
> >
> >Valete
> >Franciscus Apulus Caesar
> >-------------------------------------------
> >Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
> >Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
> >Scriba Curatoris Araneum
> >-------------------------------------------
> >Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
> >Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
> >Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
> >http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
> >Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
> >Yahoo Messanger: fapulus
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] CALL "PLAYERS" IN THE MAXIMI LUDI CIRCENSES (MLC)
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 03:08:49 +0100

Salve Quirites!

Are You among the "best_16_players" of this years Ludi Circenses? Do
you want became the BEST CHARIOTEER OF THE 2755???


I will write to those that I have private address to and hope that
the others read the main list. ;-)

You can leave your name in the "History Books" of Nova Roman sport
being hailed in the Circus as an hero!

Hurry up, citizens, tomorrow is the deadline!

Please also remember your tactics!

Read the rules at
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/victoria/mlc.htm

These players are invited to subscribe:

T. Arminius Hyacinthus
M. Minucius Rufus
C. Flavius Diocletianus
M. Villus Limitanus
G. Cornelius Ahenobarbus
A. Solaris Draco
T. Labienus Fortunatus
M. S. Curio Britannicus

The following players also are invited to subscribe, they may only
run if not all the 16 best players.subscribe
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Appius Arminius Claudianus
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Marcus Arminius Maior

Please, subscribe to the MAXIMI LUDI CIRCENSES if You are one of the
above players, by sending an e-mail to sacro_barese_impero@libero.it
AND Salixgalaicus@hotmail.com with your tactics added!

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Suggestion for Richard Harris Tribute
From:	"M. Flavius Aurelius" <marcus.flavius@bigpond.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:01:10 +1100

Fellow citizens (and others),

It is pleasant to read accounts of those of you who have been fortunate enough to meet one of my favourite actors. I had no such privilege.
Last evening, in memory of Richard Harris, my wife (Aurelia Flavia) and I sat and watched him as Emperor Marcus Aurelius in Gladiator. I recommend it to all other citizens as a way of honoring this son of Rome - for in playing one of the great emperors, he truly became one of us.

Hail Marcus Aurelius! May you prosper in the next world.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: On religious beliefs (was: Constantinus et
From:	"Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@usa.net>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:22:25 -0400

Yes, I think that in a thousand years, the warriors of Rasta will be the
makers of Empire the global republic.

TAS
> -----Original Message-----
> From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk [mailto:me-in-@disguise.co.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, 26 October, 2002 16:40
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: On religious beliefs (was: Constantinus et
> Teodosius)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From : g_valerius_taurinus <g_valerius_taurinus@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >The early christians were not persecuted and killed for their
> >religious beliefs; they were killed for breaking the law. They
> >categorically refused to make offerings of incense to the Genius of
> >the Emperor- which was a civic duty that all Romans were expected to
> >carry out, and to fail to do so was an offence tantamount to treason.
> >
> I pointed out earlier I believe, that there is a very close
> parallel between Christianity then and Rastafarianism now.
> Neither is respectable, the god-man is recognised as symbolic by
> the more intelligent but not by the slum majority to whom the
> cult appeals, and of course practice of the feaatures central to
> the cult are against the law of themselves, not because the cult
> is itself banned. Who is to say what, centuries hence when the
> world's centre is Brazil and few can tell the difference between
> the British and American Empires of old, that world might say of
> its Rasta martyrs?
> Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.
>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Arianism and religion in the late Empire
From:	"Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@usa.net>
Date:	Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:22:22 -0400

Maybe so.. but I think it is little more subtle than that. Formal Arianism
was allied
with Gnosticism which had an extensive ranking of the heavenly beings. I
think this maybe
was more allied with the popular beliefs in a multitude of gods and demons
ruling the
visible & invisible worlds.

The biggest problem the Orthodox bishops had with Arianism was the idea that
Christ had
an unequal "dignity" and importance to the Father. From my readings of Paul,
I think
he did place a very high emphasis on Christ. Of course, the Christians of
three centuries
after Paul had developed a myriad of different interpretations.

Well we have gotten onto a tangent far from Roma antiqua, haven't we? To
bring it back
to Rome, let's look at why Arianism was so popular, and nearly became the
orthodox
form of Christianity. I think that the Arian position, that of a hierarchy,
with a
distinct relationship of superiority/inferiority reflected the ancient
belief in the
paterfamilias and his power over his children. So Arianism was naturally
attractive to
the Romans as it reminded them of their ancient traditions. Also, because
Jesus was
a historical person, and as the son of (a) god, in the Greco-Roman world,
would be
considered a "demigod", of course, was not superior to his father, just as
Heracles
was not equal to Zeus. Then the move towards the belief in the Son as equal
to the
Father truly represented a paradigm shift, as Christ did not overthrow his
father,
as the old gods did the Titans, but became one with his Father, a very
different, and
much more metaphysical concept.

I am not sure why the orthodox bishops ultimately rejected Arianism and so
vehemently
repressed it. Of course, the two ideas of the nature of Christ are very
different and
incompatible. Perhaps you have some enlightenment. I am quite enjoying this
discourse.

Tiberius Ambrosius Silvus

> -----Original Message-----
> From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk [mailto:me-in-@disguise.co.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, 26 October, 2002 16:32
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Constantinus et Teodosius
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From : “Christopher L. Wood“ <xwood@usa.net>
>
> >
> >From this moment [The Second General Council, 1134 AUC],
> Arianism in all its
> >forms lost its place within the Empire. Its developments among the
> >barbarians were political rather than doctrinal. Ulphilas (311-388), who
> >
> If you read what of St. Paul is not considered to be later
> putting of words into his mouth, his position is very much the
> Arian one. Though the modern church takes them as synonymous, the
> fact that he distinguishes use of his Lord or Christ from his God
> shows that he does not regard them as identical. Closest of the
> known Western sects to Arianism is probably the Jehovah's
> Witnesses, though they appear to have reinvented it for
> themselves and do not represent any underground tradition re-emergent.
> Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.
>
>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Suggestion for Richard Harris Tribute
From:	"lithia_cassia" <mscommunication@attbi.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 03:06:49 -0000

quote:
Last evening, in memory of Richard Harris, my wife (Aurelia Flavia)
and I sat and watched him as Emperor Marcus Aurelius in Gladiator.

**Favorite quote from a behind the scenes thing about that
movie "Nothing says evil like a toga and a lisp." Bwahahaha!

Seriously though, RIP Richard Harris. ---`--@ (that is a rose, for
those who can't decipher really badly done ascii)

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Bestowing a Further Honor;
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 09:47:04 +0100

Salvete Omnes,

> Marcus Minucius Audens writes:
> > > As Praefectus Fabrum of the Sodalitas Egressus, I
> > hereby appoint Aedile and Senator Caeso Fabius
> > Quintillianus to the position of my Beneficarius
> > to serve with Beneficarius Strabo in the Sodalitas
> > Egressus as my joint Assistants in the management
> > of this Sodalitas.

I met Aedile and Senator Caeso Fabius Quintillianus during the rally in
Tongeren. This appointment is much deserved as this man has always shown Roman
virtues as his principles of life. An exemple that we all should follow.

Valete,

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through MailService.MS -> http://www.MailService.ms

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Suggestion for Richard Harris Tribute
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 08:47:26 -0000

Salvete omnes,

Yesterday on the Canadian history channel they showed Richard Harris
in Cromwell. Though some critics may disagree, I thought Cromwell was
one of his best preformances. He had a huge part with terrific
dialogue and rhetoric through the movie. Any thoughts. Have some of
our younger NR's seen this movie made about 1970?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
-

- In Nova-Roma@y..., "lithia_cassia" <mscommunication@a...> wrote:
> quote:
> Last evening, in memory of Richard Harris, my wife (Aurelia Flavia)
> and I sat and watched him as Emperor Marcus Aurelius in Gladiator.
>
> **Favorite quote from a behind the scenes thing about that
> movie "Nothing says evil like a toga and a lisp." Bwahahaha!
>
> Seriously though, RIP Richard Harris. ---`--@ (that is a rose, for
> those who can't decipher really badly done ascii)

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman Mket. Days--AAR -"Maximus" Mecurius Minucius Gladius -- Part
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 05:53:49 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I beg your leave to bring to you the second part of the subject
offering:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-------At about 9:45 A.M. , about one-quarter hour prior to the
admission gates opening, your "Summa Pilus" was in the gladiator camp's
changing quarters, donning his equipment and looking to his impression.
I overheard one of our founding members of the Gladiator School, "Lupus
Brittanicus" the -- Wolf Of Britain -- (aka: Michael Catellier), being
vigorously questioned by someone on the subject of provincial
ampitheatres.

The Ludus Magnus had, as always, set it's "period impression" as that of
a provincial Imperial gladitorial school, set in the remote bordering
provinces, and attached directly to an occupying legion, in this case
Legion XXIV. I peerd out of the tent, almost completely geared up for
the day, and to my utter amazement, beheld almost 5-100 spectators
beginning to logger in early.

These enthusiastic new-Romans would not be denied access to the Market
Day events, and like the mobs of yestereyear, were not prepared to
observe mere formalities such as time schedules. They wanted
information and gratification in the form of entertainment and food, but
above all, they wanted ACTION!!!!

When I had fully emerged from the dressig tent, I saw L. Britannicus
(hereinafter the "Wolf") working our two new slave aquisitions to the
Ludus, "Aolus of Antioch" (aka - Albert Barbato) and "Gaius of
Macedonia" (aka - James Massimilo) at the "palus" or straw-man posts.
Since winning his rudius (and hence his freedom), earlier this year this
formerly crude and unmanagable barbarian has benifitted well from his
elevation in status and award of better conditions, and has impressed
your Summa Palus with his expertise and ability.

While the barbarian still apparently simmers with rage about his
acquisition by the L. Magnus, the barbarian displaying a remarkabl
penchant for self-preservation and advancement, has sublimented that
rage, turning it into a marketable skill in the ampitheatres. The Wolf
has now been elevated to the rank of "Palus Primus" or "first-class"
gladiator, the rank previously occupied by your "Summa Palus", and
"Maximus" Mecurius Minucius Gladius (hereinafter "Maximus") has been
elevated to the position of the HIGHEST ranked or "top" gladiator. in my
capacity of part-ower and Lanistae ("trainer") in the school.
The Wolf will now be able to train the new recruits ("tirones" or
"tyros")in the various gladitorial styles, and will be responsible for
training of newly arrived slave gladators, those most-reluctant students
of the dark skills taught by the ludus. The Wolf will receve all the
status and pivileges of a top-ranked gladiator, as "Palus Primus", a
position that he has earned in demonstration of skill, attitude and
service to the Empire, in addition to mintaining his innate barbarian
ferocity. This service has been sanctified by the blood of Wolf's many
victims in arena bouts, and his service is well-noted and recognized.

(To be continued)

Respectfully submitted by Marcus Minucius Audens for "Summa Palus --
Maximus" Mecurius Minucius Gladius;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Land Pt 1.
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 02:56:26 -0800 (PST)

Hail Nova Roma
Ok look here Q. Fabius Maximus Your killing me.Where is part 2 to the story, I want to know what happen.So far it's great and I think it would fly.

Brutis









qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com wrote:Citizens.
For several days now I have followed this discussion on land, getting some
for our beloved republic. I thought I'd tell you of my experience.
When I first came here five years ago, (Gods has it been that long already?),
I felt we had to have a goal and a plan if NR was to succeed. However, not
being a member of the power elite, I decided to attempt my own design and
plans, and when it was ready, present it to the Senate and the People. Back
in the ‘90s we had crazy people investing in everything. So why not use this
fact to secure investment in NR?
I know a lot of well off people in the entertainment industry, and I figured
I'd partner up with one them. Instead I ended up with a rich VP of a certain
nameless software company who collects Roman antiquities. He was fascinated
by the idea, and because I was credible, as was NR, requested a plan.

My plan was simple. I wanted to take no chances with macro nations and their
ability to seize what we built, so we needed our own controlled nation. So
it had to be an island. And NR had to own it outright.

You can buy islands in the Caribbean, you can buy islands in Fuji, and you
can buy an oil platform in the North Sea. I settled on an island in the
Caribbean, 4 miles in diameter, far off the usual hurricane tracks,
reasonable private, yet reachable by seaplane and boat.
Asking price? 25 mill.

What we envisioned was basically what Walt Disney company envisioned for the
Haymarket area, a theme park. We planned a low tech Roman historical park,
but without all the urban blight.
Such a place would be the seat of our government, the home of our religio,
and a constant living historical event. I planned a library were we could
keep copies of all original documents from the period of roman history as
well as all the books on Rome we could acquire, in print, or out.
People could come and visit for a fee, Roman citizens could live there if
they wanted to invest in land, build villas or come on holiday.

Next the outline would be to built the Triad of temples, Vesta's house, The
Senate house all around the forum, and dwellings.
With the fact that we were to build classical buildings and limestone, brick
and marble are a trifle expensive, being that it would all shipped in, with
the main sewer drainage and water supply brought in as well. Then the VP
thought it would be cool to have a hill, he first wanted seven, that we could
erect our temples on it.
The whole rough estimate to do this? 350 mill including the feasibility
study.
We'd have to buy a seaplane...15 mil, the reason why would be that the augurs
would have to find a site, the hill built, then the college was to set up the
temple boundaries. So there would a rather large block of time between the
two events, because a hill had to be constructed and seaplanes serviced these
islands once every two weeks. So we needed a way to come and go.
I had interested Bob Rankin of Discovery Channel, in giving us money for in
return he could produce a series of shows about the creation of NR. I had
the history channel interested covering the living history as well. We
invested 50K in marketing. The result? The Hiatt was interested in putting
up a Roman style hotel. Caesar's Palace wanted to put up a mini casino. It
was all coming together. Then it all went wrong.

Part II tomorrow
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Land Pt 1.
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 03:09:58 -0800 (PST)

Hail Nova Roma
Yes Sextus it is a good idea and with it being on the beach this would help to bring in large numbers of visitor from all over the world.Cruise lines would make a alot of money for investor and NR.This is a great idea and we would be fools to pass up.Also with the money made we could start up smaller city states in other places that would help to draw more people to NR.Lets keep ideas like this alive.
G.Brutis Porticus
But Scipio call me Brutis


Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms> wrote: Salvete Illustrious Q. Fabius Maximus and Omnes,

I am really pleased to see how much this project is attracting citizens and I
am as well gladly surprised that this happens all of sudden!!
I am directly concerned to this project, so if you may, Illustrious Q. Fabius
Maximus, I would like to give my comments to your interesting post. I think
that the more we share our experiences, and the more this project will take
shape.

> I know a lot of well off people in the entertainment industry, and I figured
> I'd partner up with one them. Instead I ended up with a rich VP of a certain
> nameless software company who collects Roman antiquities. He was fascinated
> by the idea, and because I was credible, as was NR, requested a plan.

This kind of person is always good to have around. I am pleased that you know
some of them (I do too, but more from the financial world), so we should keep
them interested and fascinated by our goals.

> My plan was simple. I wanted to take no chances with macro nations and their
> ability to seize what we built, so we needed our own controlled nation. So
> it had to be an island. And NR had to own it outright.

It is true that macro nations have a bad habbit to seize what they can.
However, I am afraid that whatever we buy will be part of a macro nation, could
it be an island or not. This is an important point that should be discussed. I
am afraid that we will always have to deal with a macro nation. Therefore, and
to avoid a seizure of our Land or whatever other action, we need to know
exactly what are the regulations in the given macro nation. My office is
working on this but unfortunately this kind of task needs time. I will keep you
and the citizens in touch about the advances of our work.

> You can buy islands in the Caribbean, you can buy islands in Fuji, and you
> can buy an oil platform in the North Sea. I settled on an island in the
> Caribbean, 4 miles in diameter, far off the usual hurricane tracks,
> reasonable private, yet reachable by seaplane and boat.
> Asking price? 25 mill.
> What we envisioned was basically what Walt Disney company envisioned for the
> Haymarket area, a theme park. We planned a low tech Roman historical park,
> but without all the urban blight.

The theme park is a wonderful idea. Surely one of the best way to make money
and being Roman at the same time!! Here, I have got some points on which I
would like to get your opinion:
You surely know that a lot of Roman Theme Parks already exist, as for exemple:
- Terra Mitica in Spain
- Port El Kantoui in Tunisia
- Le Puy du Fou in France
- Xanten in Germany...

There is unfortunately a lot of them, and it is so true that some roman theme
ideas have got copyright or trademark, as for exemple RomaFair TM, that we can
find at: http://www.visioneering.com/park.html
My concern here is that, with the amount of money involved in that kind of
theme parks (your figures are realistic), we might have serious problems if we
do not check all those trademarks, copyrights and international laws before
doing anything. As well, some citizens, depending in which country they live,
might be legally liable to any losses suffered by Nova Roma. I do not want to
pour cold water on our citizens, but they have the right to know what kind of
risk they might take in such an investment. Therefore, I strongly suggest that
legal and financial research must be done prior anything else.


--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through MailService.MS -> http://www.MailService.ms

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] PROUD TO BE A ROMAN "PAGAN!"
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 06:13:22 EST

In a message dated 10/26/02 2:24:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ivlianvs309@yahoo.com writes:


> And I firmly believe
> that what made Roma great was not only our Roman
> virtues, BUT THE OLD REPUBLICAN FORM OF THE RELIGIO
> and the CVLTVS DEORVM and devotion to the MOS
> MAIORVM!!! VALETE! FRATER GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, PGI.
>

We in the College of Pontiffs mostly concur with that statement. Only the
Religio can light our comeback...

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Land Pt 1.
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 06:17:02 EST

In a message dated 10/27/02 2:57:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
celtic4usa@yahoo.com writes:


> Ok look here Q. Fabius Maximus Your killing me.Where is part 2 to the
> story, I want to know what happen.So far it's great and I think it would
> fly.
>

I'm sorry. I'm getting ready for trial. I beg the people's indulgence.
Soon.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] PayPal
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 05:41:47 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites,
PayPal seems to have some problems. The most recent
one that I have run across is a group that is working
on a free word processor, abiword, had thier donation
account hacked by someone to buy a digital camera.
http://www.abisource.com/mailinglists/abiword-dev/02/Oct/0422.html

Paypal has a history of questionable activities of
freezing the accounts of PayPal users leaving them
with no way to access thier funds for months at a time
while "illegal" activities were "investigated". The
Person who has thier account frozen is not allowed to
see any documentation relating to the investigation,
nor are they allowed to offer any documentation to
support the legality of thier account.

PayPal is not a bank, so they are not liable for any
funds that are lost. They refuse to provide a contact
number to make it easier for a person who has suffered
a loss to attempt to find out what the problem is.

see http://www.paypalsucks.com/

I Have looked into alternitives to PayPal. One of
these is c2it. It is run by Citybank, a real bank,
under US Banking regulations, so funds in a c2it
account are insured by the FDIC. The down side to a
c2it account is the high cost of international
transfers. US to US transfers are free, but there is a
US$ 10.00 fee for international transfers.
https://www.c2it.com/C2IT/Login

Another alternitive is AnyPay.
AnyPay is a German company. They aren't a bank and I
am not familiar with German law regarding a company
offering money transactions. AnyPay is set up for
international transfers and the fees are lower than
PayPal. US transfers are a flat fee of .25 Dollars and
transfers from the EU are .25 Euros. Unlike PayPal
these funds are deposited directly into Nova Roma's
bank account instead of into an insecure PayPal
account. The very low fee for international transfers
would be a big help for citizens who reside outside
the USA, and the lower fees will mean that Nova Roma
will recieve a larger portion of the Taxes paid by all
citizens.
http://www.anypay.com/site/ml/eng/htm/home/home.htm

DISCLAIMER: I Work for a company who's core bussiness
is funds transfers. I Am not aware of any relationship
between these organizations and the company I work
for, but one may exist. My company does own the most
well known and oldest company that does money
transfers, Western Union. We are convient but our fees
are, IMHO, too high to meet Nova Roma's needs.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Bestowing a Further Honor;
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:55:19 +0100

Salve Illustris Marcus Minucius Audens et Salvete Quirites


>I approach you this evening to complete a promise made to a good friend
>some months ago. There were people to see and things to do before this
>moment could properly come, but the details have been taken care of.
>
>The title of "Beneficarius" is one which means literaly in Latin (as I
>have been led to believe) "Benefitted One". These titles were bestowed
>during the extent of the Roman Empire for those Romans who were trusted
>by a specific Magistrate or Officer, and who carried a staff with
>certain markings to show thier authority and position. A Beneficarius
>delivering a message was considered to be speaking with voice of whom he
>represented. During my tenure in Nova Roma, I have found it to be
>advantageous to name only one such Citizen of Nova Roma to that; for me
>very personal bestored honor; until the present time, and that was
>Praetor and Senator Pompeia Cornelia Strabo. She is a good lomg-term
>friend, but even further, I trust her with my words and my messages, as
>I would my own family. We have not always agreed, and agreement is not
>always necessary for a trust between individuals, to my mind, and I have
>never regretted my action in this appointment.
>
>Now it is time for me to make another such appointment, to another good
>long-time friend, whom I trust, as I have said more than once with my
>"wallet, my dog and my wife (not necessarily in that order!!)."
>
>As Praefectus Fabrum of the Sodalitas Egressus, I hereby appoint Aedile
>and Senator Caeso Fabius Quintillianus to the position of my
>Beneficarius to serve with Beneficarius Strabo in the Sodalitas Egressus
>as my joint Assistants in the management of this Sodalitas.

I am very honored and quite speachless to have the pleasure to
recieve such a important and responsible position from the hands of
the famous Senator and Consularis Illustrus Marcus Minucius Audens.
To serve together with him and Senator and Praetor Illustra Pompeia
Cornelia Strabo will be a real delight to me. I do hope that I will
be able to rise to a level of contribution that corresponds to the
honor that has been bestowed upon me. I hereby promise to do my best
tocontinue to contribute to the development of Egressus!

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:55:50 +0000

Salve Cornelia:

I am very sorry to have to disagree with your conclusion. I think you
were referring to Ambrosius post in which he was critical of religious
fundamentalism. He didn't seem, to me, to be picking on anybody. He did
not single out any group. He condemned them all equally. And if it seems a
bit harsh, he comes from a country where the flames of fundamentalism has
been raging for decades, and it is easier to hear about it than to have to
live with it.

It is true that the christian side seem to be taking lots of criticism
in this forum. But that is because everybody in this forum loves Rome,
including you. Since the christians undermined and eventually destroyed
Rome and the classical world which we are trying to revive, that should be
understood. Having said that, the pagans have been taking abuse, too. It
only doesn't seem to be so by those who do it.

At the end nobody is trying to insult anybody. The basis for a free
forum is free discourse. People will disagree. One side will win the
argument, and both enrich with understanding.

There are some in this forum who are, absolutely, intolerant of any kind
of criticism, and I think your intervention is to appease their concern, and
for those I say, this is not the place to be. Only personal attacks should
not be tolerated. Differences of opinions abound in this forum, but all are
united in the love for Rome.

Why, if we put limitations on topics, what else will be there to talk
about. I got a hundred post about french fries filling my box, and I don't
even like french fries. And for those who eat too much of it, watch out for
all that carbo, fat, and sugar. It isn't healthy for you, really.

Valete omnes

Galerius Peregrinator.






>From: "Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:18:34 +0000
>
>
>Salvete Omnes Nova Roma Forum:
>
>To date the prevailing discussion on the religious influences of Roman
>antiquita, how Rome fell, and opinions on certain religious beliefs in
>contrast to one's own has been handled very well by all posters.
>
>However, when we delve into the perceived religious influences of
>macronational politics, and making stereotypical, referenceless statements
>about 'fundamentalists' and groups of macronational churches, this sort of
>thing wanes in its academic usefulness, and its constructive properties
>with
>respect to Nova Roma.
>
>For every faith, Christian, Muslim, Judaism, Paganism, there are
>fundamentalists. Nothing we can do about that.
>
>I would venture to say, however, that there are 'few' true 'fundies' here
>in
>Nova Roma, as the essence of fundamentalism is 'it's my way or the
>highway'.......or.......'you actually believe that? Man, are you
>stunned!".
> How could we work as closely as we do, carrying this type of attitude?
>
>So comments about macronational fundamentalist influences really are not
>much on topic any more, nor is 'venting' about another's religion in the
>absence of any academic/historical/cultural application to either Nova Roma
>or Roma Antiquita.
>
>I think posts which express dissention with another's religious belief
>system should be taken elsewhere, either in private, or on the religio
>list,
>where the topic is more 'religion centered', but common courtesy and a
>certain degree of referencing is required there also.
>
>This forum is the window through which the public views us. There are many
>here of various faiths, who practise humbly and contribute to the growth of
>Nova Roma, respect the religio, and the like. Not everyone is going to
>agree on every element of even their own professed religion anyway. I have
>seen rather powerful arguments on pagan-centered religious list, and
>Christian lists, respectively.
>
>Great discussion...but let us keep our discussion fact-oriented and topic
>oriented, SVP.
>
>Pompeia......
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN!
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>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN!
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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Bestowing a Further Honor;
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:03:36 +0100

Salvete!

Having had the pleasure of working in the Cohors Aedilis with Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus to organize the frist ever NR Rally in Europe, I would also
like to congratulate him on receiving this new honor ! It is well deserved
and I am am positive that he will do justice to the position of
Beneficarius!

>This appointment is much deserved as this man has always shown Roman
>virtues as his principles of life. An exemple that we all should follow.
Well said Sextus Apollonius Scipio!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: PayPal
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 12:10:14 EST

L. Sicinius Drusus writes:

Salvete Quirites,
PayPal seems to have some problems.
see <A HREF="http://www.paypalsucks.com/">http://www.paypalsucks.com/</A>


Salvete,

In spite of the cited case of 'account theft' and the link above, Pay Pal
continues to be both a popular and well regarded resource. ALL of the
complaints together at the website above come to only a tiny fraction of the
transactions that PayPal handles in a single *day*. True, they're not a
bank... but since my local bank tends to make an error in my personal account
or with deposits every couple of months or so, maybe that's a *good* thing.
;)

Most of the complaints about 'frozen PayPal accounts' come from Ebay sellers
who have had complaints pressed against them. There are a *lot* of scam
artists in the online auction business... from people who mis-represent
items, to people who don't ship items at all. PayPal is protecting buyers by
ensuring seller integrity... with is pretty much what one wants to see when
participating in online sales/auctions.

Nova Roma has been using PayPal for a couple of years now without a single
hitch. And... we use PayPal for money *collection* only. We do not have a
fund account with PayPal as some users do.

If we can find another service with equal or *lower* rates, all well and
good. Otherwise it makes little sense to pay another company higher
transaction rates 'just because they're not PayPal'.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: PayPal
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 09:40:46 -0800 (PST)

Salvete,
just because we haven't had a problem with PayPal yet
dosen't mean that we won't have a problem in the
future, though it dosen't mean we won't have a problem
with AnyPay either.

AnyPay does have lower rates than PayPal however. If I
pay my taxes with PayPal the fee is 2.2% + 30 cents.
2.2% of $12.00 is 24.24 cents whoch rounds off to 24
cents. add the 30 cent fee and PayPal retains 54 cents
of the taxes giving Nova Roma $11.44

AnyPay charges a flat fee of 25 cents, less than half
of what PayPal charges. Nova Roma would get $11.75 if
I Paid my taxes via AnyPay instead of PayPal.

AnyPay does not require a credit card. They are set up
for direct pay from a bank account giving citizens
without a credit card an easy means of paying taxes.

AnyPay's international fees are low. I Have heard
complaints from European Citizens that it costs them
allmost as much in fees to transfer taxes to the US as
the ammount of the taxes. AnyPay only charges .25
Euros or about the same 25 cents to transfer the money
from Europe, and they don't charge above the standard
exchange rates.

>From what I've seen AnyPay will be a little cheaper
(29 cents) for US based tax payments and far cheaper
for payments originating outside the USA.

This is not something that we should dismiss lightly
without checking into AnyPay to see if they meet our
needs better than PayPal.

--- cassius622@aol.com wrote:
> L. Sicinius Drusus writes:
>
> Salvete Quirites,
> PayPal seems to have some problems.
> see <A
>
HREF="http://www.paypalsucks.com/">http://www.paypalsucks.com/</A>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> In spite of the cited case of 'account theft' and
> the link above, Pay Pal
> continues to be both a popular and well regarded
> resource. ALL of the
> complaints together at the website above come to
> only a tiny fraction of the
> transactions that PayPal handles in a single *day*.
> True, they're not a
> bank... but since my local bank tends to make an
> error in my personal account
> or with deposits every couple of months or so, maybe
> that's a *good* thing.
> ;)
>
> Most of the complaints about 'frozen PayPal
> accounts' come from Ebay sellers
> who have had complaints pressed against them. There
> are a *lot* of scam
> artists in the online auction business... from
> people who mis-represent
> items, to people who don't ship items at all. PayPal
> is protecting buyers by
> ensuring seller integrity... with is pretty much
> what one wants to see when
> participating in online sales/auctions.
>
> Nova Roma has been using PayPal for a couple of
> years now without a single
> hitch. And... we use PayPal for money *collection*
> only. We do not have a
> fund account with PayPal as some users do.
>
> If we can find another service with equal or *lower*
> rates, all well and
> good. Otherwise it makes little sense to pay another
> company higher
> transaction rates 'just because they're not
> PayPal'.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Senator
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: PayPal
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 11:48:40 -0600 (CST)

Salve Luci Sicini,

> just because we haven't had a problem with PayPal yet
> dosen't mean that we won't have a problem in the
> future, though it dosen't mean we won't have a problem
> with AnyPay either.

Certainly true, and we should take measures to protect
ourselves against both.

Last year, when we collected the annual fees via paypal,
they were deposited in our account on Paypal. About once
every week or two, or whenever there was more than some
small amount there, Quaestor G. Popilius Laenas would
transfer the money from that account into our real bank
account - which would make it much more difficult for
them to freeze our money, as they're no longer in direct
control of it.

> AnyPay charges a flat fee of 25 cents, less than half
> of what PayPal charges. Nova Roma would get $11.75 if
> I Paid my taxes via AnyPay instead of PayPal.

This sounds like something we should certainly be using.
Paypal does have the convenience advantage, though, as
more citizens will have used it before and will already
have accounts there. I think we should allow payment
either way, placing the buttons for both on our payment
page, and having some text explaining which method works
better for each particular country.

Vale, O.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On religious beliefs
From:	"Circe Aeaea" <osculum@bigpond.com.au>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:37:01 +1100

Salve,

Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis said....
>>Every religion has a Messiah figure and most are still waiting for Him.<<

I must disagree. Not every religion has a messiah. I do think people _like_
messiahs, putting people on pedestals, but not every religion has 'official'
(or even unofficial) messiahs.

Vale

Tullia.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:16:08 -0000

---Salve Gai Galeri:


In Nova-Roma@y..., "Gaius Galerius Peregrinator"
<gaiusgalerius@h...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Salve Cornelia:
>
> I am very sorry to have to disagree with your conclusion. I
think you
> were referring to Ambrosius post in which he was critical of
religious
> fundamentalism. He didn't seem, to me, to be picking on anybody.
He did
> not single out any group. He condemned them all equally. And if
it seems a
> bit harsh, he comes from a country where the flames of
fundamentalism has
> been raging for decades, and it is easier to hear about it than to
have to
> live with it.

Pompeia: Based on the above analysis, what does this have to do with
Nova Roma, and Roma Antiquita, The Christians or Pagans "here" in
Nova Roma or Roma Antiquita. Although this situation has my
sympathies, it is soley macronational.
>
> It is true that the christian side seem to be taking lots of
criticism
> in this forum. But that is because everybody in this forum loves
Rome,
> including you. Since the christians undermined and eventually
destroyed
> Rome and the classical world which we are trying to revive, that
should be
> understood. Having said that, the pagans have been taking abuse,
too. It
> only doesn't seem to be so by those who do it.

Pompeia: I haven't seen a whole pile of abuse from either side,
really. Frankly, it's been a great discussion, and I would like to
keep it that way. Involving macronational stuff is not the way to go.
>
> At the end nobody is trying to insult anybody. The basis for a
free
> forum is free discourse. People will disagree. One side will win
the
> argument, and both enrich with understanding.
>
> There are some in this forum who are, absolutely, intolerant of
any kind
> of criticism, and I think your intervention is to appease their
concern, and
> for those I say, this is not the place to be. Only personal
attacks should
> not be tolerated. Differences of opinions abound in this forum,
but all are
> united in the love for Rome.

Pompeia: You are perfectly free to disagree with my comments, and
you question my motives also, which is fine too.

It is a great discussion, but let's stick within the parameters of
Roma antiquita, Nova Roma, and stuff pertinent to such. The
fundamentalist influence projected on macronational politics and
macronational countries is really not 'on topic'......otherwise, talk
away.

Did I say anything else?


>
> Why, if we put limitations on topics, what else will be there
to talk
> about. I got a hundred post about french fries filling my box, and
I don't
> even like french fries. And for those who eat too much of it,
watch out for
> all that carbo, fat, and sugar. It isn't healthy for you, really.

Pompeia: ......and if you had read, there were actually ties from
that threat to Roma antiquita too :)

You know, our Yahoo Group Use policies actually states that we stay
on topic? So it is not just *I* who puts a rope around what is
acceptable to say or not say, it is them. Is macronational religion
and politics, and our respective difficulties with them "on topic" in
your estimation, Gai Galeri?

Please do not jump to conclusions here......
>
> Valete omnes
>
> Galerius Peregrinator.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@h...>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@y...
> >To: Nova-Roma@y...
> >Subject: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
> >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:18:34 +0000
> >
> >
> >Salvete Omnes Nova Roma Forum:
> >
> >To date the prevailing discussion on the religious influences of
Roman
> >antiquita, how Rome fell, and opinions on certain religious
beliefs in
> >contrast to one's own has been handled very well by all posters.
> >
> >However, when we delve into the perceived religious influences of
> >macronational politics, and making stereotypical, referenceless
statements
> >about 'fundamentalists' and groups of macronational churches, this
sort of
> >thing wanes in its academic usefulness, and its constructive
properties
> >with
> >respect to Nova Roma.
> >
> >For every faith, Christian, Muslim, Judaism, Paganism, there are
> >fundamentalists. Nothing we can do about that.
> >
> >I would venture to say, however, that there are 'few'
true 'fundies' here
> >in
> >Nova Roma, as the essence of fundamentalism is 'it's my way or the
> >highway'.......or.......'you actually believe that? Man, are you
> >stunned!".
> > How could we work as closely as we do, carrying this type of
attitude?
> >
> >So comments about macronational fundamentalist influences really
are not
> >much on topic any more, nor is 'venting' about another's religion
in the
> >absence of any academic/historical/cultural application to either
Nova Roma
> >or Roma Antiquita.
> >
> >I think posts which express dissention with another's religious
belief
> >system should be taken elsewhere, either in private, or on the
religio
> >list,
> >where the topic is more 'religion centered', but common courtesy
and a
> >certain degree of referencing is required there also.
> >
> >This forum is the window through which the public views us. There
are many
> >here of various faiths, who practise humbly and contribute to the
growth of
> >Nova Roma, respect the religio, and the like. Not everyone is
going to
> >agree on every element of even their own professed religion
anyway. I have
> >seen rather powerful arguments on pagan-centered religious list,
and
> >Christian lists, respectively.
> >
> >Great discussion...but let us keep our discussion fact-oriented
and topic
> >oriented, SVP.
> >
> >Pompeia......
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN!
> >http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN!
> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:16:46 -0000

"...the pagans have been taking abuse too."

I have seen no abuse whatsoever of the pagans here. Could you point
out the abuse in question, in the event that I missed it?

Nerva

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Bestowing a Further Honor
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:40:49 -0000

Salvete Marcus Minucius Audens, Praefectus et Senator et alii:

Sir, I thank you once again for your kind appraisal, and I too, join
you and others in applauding and contratulating Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus in your appointment of him as Benefacarius of Sodalitas
Egressus.

The entire page could not be sufficient to cite why he is deserving
of this position.

I wish Caeso Fabius well in all his future endeavors.

Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia
Praetor

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Plans for a Temple
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:47:48 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites,
It's not a Roman Temple or even a Pagan Temple, but it
is an effort to rebuild an ancient Temple. The Temple
Institute in Jerusalem is planning for the rebuilding
of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.

They face a far worse obsticle than we do. They have a
nation with soverignity over the land, but the only
site on Earth where thier temple can be rebuilt has
had shrines from another faith built on it. Any
attempt to rebuild the Jewish Temple will likely
result in Islamic nations attacking Isreal in an
attempt to prevent the rebuilding. At least we don't
face the prospect of a dozen or more Macronations
launching a fullscale war to prevent us from building
a temple.

Despite the threat of war the Temple Institute is
gathering support, collecting funds, creating the
vestments of the high priest, and recreating the
implements used in worship and sacrifices for a
rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem.

http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.html

Allthough we lack the land and the funds to begain the
reconstruction of Iupiter Optimus Maximus' Temple,
there is no reason that we can't start planning for
our Temple like the Temple Institute is planning for
Reconstruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Hirtius=20Helveticus?=" <hirtius75ch@yahoo.de>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:10:01 +0100 (CET)

Salve Gaie, salvete omnes

--- Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
<gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Since the christians undermined and
> eventually destroyed
> Rome and the classical world which we are trying to
> revive, that should be
> understood.

I disagree. The system (i.e. the Empire) destroyed
itself, in the end. Christianity on the other hand
managed to preserve some Romanitas, which then evolved
into our modern western civilisation.

I do understand a certain amount of
*christian-bashing* here, and frankly, I don't mind.
But please be careful with statements like "christians
undermined [...] Rome", because it sounds a bit like
the "jewish and freemasonic conspiracy" etc. pp...

Valete bene,

=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
------------------------------
paterfamilias gentis Hirtiarum
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
------------------------------
Yahoo!/AIM/MSN: hirtius75ch
icq: 155762490

__________________________________________________________________

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Plans for a Temple
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:23:44 -0000

Salve Drusus,

These people have been planning their temple rebuilding project for
at least several years, and I think I first heard of it in the early
1990s. I think this is a very hopeful ultra-Orthodox group, and that
their plan will likely fail.

Now I would LOVE to see that damn Dome of the Rock come down and
send in the archeologists to find what lies underneath. Sadly, the
Palestinians have already done considerable damage to archeology with
a big bulldozer.

Nerva




--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
> It's not a Roman Temple or even a Pagan Temple, but it
> is an effort to rebuild an ancient Temple. The Temple
> Institute in Jerusalem is planning for the rebuilding
> of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
>
> They face a far worse obsticle than we do. They have a
> nation with soverignity over the land, but the only
> site on Earth where thier temple can be rebuilt has
> had shrines from another faith built on it. Any
> attempt to rebuild the Jewish Temple will likely
> result in Islamic nations attacking Isreal in an
> attempt to prevent the rebuilding. At least we don't
> face the prospect of a dozen or more Macronations
> launching a fullscale war to prevent us from building
> a temple.
>
> Despite the threat of war the Temple Institute is
> gathering support, collecting funds, creating the
> vestments of the high priest, and recreating the
> implements used in worship and sacrifices for a
> rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem.
>
> http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.html
>
> Allthough we lack the land and the funds to begain the
> reconstruction of Iupiter Optimus Maximus' Temple,
> there is no reason that we can't start planning for
> our Temple like the Temple Institute is planning for
> Reconstruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
> (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
> Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] On the subject of Temples..
From:	"lithia_cassia" <mscommunication@attbi.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:02:58 -0000

Does anyone have any layouts or descriptions of the inside of the
average temple they could share? I'd be very interested in seeing
one. Thanks.

Lithia

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Plans for a Temple
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 12:07:34 -0800 (PST)

The Institute has indeed been at it for years. In the
Early '90s they did a poll and found that 27% of
Isrealis supported them. A Poll last year showed that
support for a new Temple had risen to 58% of Isrealis.

As far as the Islamic Shrines on the site, yes they
have done a lot of damage in an effort to destroy
evidance that a Jewish Temple ever existed on the
site, and claim that NO Temple was ever built on the
Temple Mount. They are good at whinning that thier
shrines should be respected by other faiths (which
Isreal has done) but show little or no respect for the
sacred sites of other faiths, be it the remains of the
Jewish Temple or the Bhuddas and other sites that were
destroyed by the Taliban in Afghanistan.

If the Crusaders had taken Mecca 1000 years ago, and
built a Cathredal on the site of the Kaaba, and Mecca
was retaken by Muslam armies in 1967 CE (As Jerusalem
was by Isreal) does anyone think that the Cathedral
would still be standing some 35 years later?

The Muslams had no qualms about building on a site
that they knew was sacred to the Jews. They had no
qualms about turning the largest Church built by
Christians (Haigia Sophia) into a mosque when they
conqured Constanople. They had no problems with
destroying the Zaroastorian Temples in Iran or the
Hindu Temples in what is now Pakistan. One of the
goals of the Muslam extreamists in Egypt is the
destruction of the "Idols" there, the priceless relics
of ancient Egypt that are the common heiratage of all
western civilazation. I Have no doubt that if they
could get thier hands on them they would dynamite the
surriving ruins of Roman Temples.

Considering the complete lack of respect that Muslams
have for other faiths and thier sacred sites, I see no
reason why others should show any respect for Islam or
it's sites.

--- gcassiusnerva <gcassiusnerva@cs.com> wrote:
> Salve Drusus,
>
> These people have been planning their temple
> rebuilding project for
> at least several years, and I think I first heard of
> it in the early
> 1990s. I think this is a very hopeful
> ultra-Orthodox group, and that
> their plan will likely fail.
>
> Now I would LOVE to see that damn Dome of the
> Rock come down and
> send in the archeologists to find what lies
> underneath. Sadly, the
> Palestinians have already done considerable damage
> to archeology with
> a big bulldozer.
>
> Nerva
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus"
> <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites,
> > It's not a Roman Temple or even a Pagan Temple,
> but it
> > is an effort to rebuild an ancient Temple. The
> Temple
> > Institute in Jerusalem is planning for the
> rebuilding
> > of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
> >
> > They face a far worse obsticle than we do. They
> have a
> > nation with soverignity over the land, but the
> only
> > site on Earth where thier temple can be rebuilt
> has
> > had shrines from another faith built on it. Any
> > attempt to rebuild the Jewish Temple will likely
> > result in Islamic nations attacking Isreal in an
> > attempt to prevent the rebuilding. At least we
> don't
> > face the prospect of a dozen or more Macronations
> > launching a fullscale war to prevent us from
> building
> > a temple.
> >
> > Despite the threat of war the Temple Institute is
> > gathering support, collecting funds, creating the
> > vestments of the high priest, and recreating the
> > implements used in worship and sacrifices for a
> > rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem.
> >
> > http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.html
> >
> > Allthough we lack the land and the funds to begain
> the
> > reconstruction of Iupiter Optimus Maximus' Temple,
> > there is no reason that we can't start planning
> for
> > our Temple like the Temple Institute is planning
> for
> > Reconstruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
> >
> >
> > =====
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> > "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis
> telum est."
> > (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the
> killer's hand.)
> > Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] On the subject of Temples..
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 12:39:26 -0800 (PST)

Lithia Cassia asked:

> Does anyone have any layouts or descriptions of the
> inside of the average temple they could share?

I don't know if there is such a thing as an average
temple. But a very fine example of a temple exists.

http://www.nashville.gov/parthenon/index.htm

If you'll look around that website, you'll see a
lot of the detail of the full scale reproduction
of the Parthenon which stands in Centennial Park,
in Nashville Tennessee. This is a reproduction of
a Greek temple, and a Roman temple would have had
some differences, but it'll give you a good idea
of what was inside of one.

-- Marinus

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] On religious beliefs
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:55:23 +0100

Roman BriefpapierSalvete,

> I would say that Christianity did evolve. The coming of the Messiah
> was predicted throughout the old testament,

Yes, but when Jesus was presented as the 'Son of God', it was a rather
trendy title 2000 years ago. Before Jesus, Alexander the Great was a son of
a God and I believe Buddha as well.

Many of the current beliefs of the Christians only came about years and
years after the death of Jesus. For example, the idea of Immaculate
conception wasn't a new one 2000 years ago and it wasn't applied to Mary
while she was alive. Women did not have souls and later that was changed.
Now it is only animals that fit into this soulless category, making it easy
for us to exploit them without guilt.

Most people did not convert to Christianity of their own free will. For
example, I think that Sweden (or Denmark) was converted by pulling out the
eyeballs of the mayor in the village square. The Christian soldiers then
asked who else didn't want to convert.

Another (very smart) tactic of the Christians to convert people was by
renaming Pagan holidays into Christian ones. For example, most Christmas
traditions are Pagan in origin: Dec 25 is Mithras' birthday and the Yule
tree is from the Northern Tradition. Easter was put in place instead of
Ostara, which is a time of year when the land becomes fertile again, where
the fertility symbols of eggs and bunnies are obvious. Of course there is
All Saints Day which is a spin off of Samhain, which is the day where pagans
remember there loved ones who have passed on. There are other examples, but
I think that you get my point.

Basically, if you give the people the same feast days, they'll let the
government call it what they want. In modern times, we've seen this happen
as well. About 15 years ago, Americans used to have a day off for George
Washington and one for Abraham Lincoln. When we heard that one of them would
be taken away, we were all angry. Then the news came that we would get a day
off for Martin Luther King instead and we were all happy. We couldn't care
less if they called it MLKing day or Lincoln, as long as we had a day off!

Christianity is the perfect tool for an oppressive government. The bible
says that the more one suffers on this earth, the greater the reward will be
in heaven. This is a very defeatist belief, which is a great way of keeping
people repressed and down. If the poor oppressed common folk believe that,
then they'll never revolt.

Pagans take personal responsibility for their actions. We are good people
because we know that is the correct way to behave in life. We are not
'coerced' into being good people by thoughts of eternal damnation in Hell.
Many christians carry this fear with them throughout their entire life. And
a part of Christianity that has always amazed me is that if a mass murderer
converts to Christianity on his deathbed, then he will go to Heaven. And
yet, I as a pagan will burn in Hell. Doesn't seem fair somehow!

I have the utmost respect for Christians that go to church and read the
Bible and so forth. But as a Public Pagan, I often am verbally attacked by
people who have never read the bible, have not stepped in a church for years
and only pray when a close relative is extremely ill. These types call us
Satan worshippers and other bad names. I really have to laugh because those
types have not studied their own religion and yet they presume to know mine.
And Pagans are actively religious people. We study our chosen paths and our
learning process never stops. Our Gods are a part of our everyday lives. We
invoke them regularly and not only just once every 10 years when a relative
is in a hospital.

Vale!

Diana Moravia Aventina







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] PROUD TO BE A ROMAN "PAGAN!"
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:04:47 +0100

Salvete!

> SALVETE OMNES! The main reason I joined Nova Roma was
> because of the RELIGIO ROMANA!!! And I firmly believe
> that what made Roma great was not only our Roman
> virtues, BUT THE OLD REPUBLICAN FORM OF THE RELIGIO
> and the CVLTVS DEORVM and devotion to the MOS
> MAIORVM!!! VALETE! FRATER GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, PGI.

>>I agree with you 100%! The Religio Romana was the main reason I joined
>>the Republic.G. Modius Athanasius

Me three!! I agree with G. Modius Athanasius and Gaius Julius Julianus.
I also found Nova Roma in my search for others who followed the Religio
Romana.
Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: French Fries
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 12:25:39 -0500

On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 10:27:58PM -0000, Quintus Lanius Paulinus wrote:

Salve, Quintus Lanius Paulinus:

> Though Canadian, my wife is Mexican and makes a powerful multipepper
> sauce hot enough to burn Beelzebub's rear end. I like to dip my fries
> in that quite often and it warms up the body on a cold day!

<aghast> You like to dip your fries in Beelzebub's rear end? Or is the
English language being slippery with those referents again? :)


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
(currently visiting Toronto and looking forward to trying the various
food perversions recently mentioned here...)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Illi robur et aes triplex circa pectus erat, qui fragilem truci commisit pelago
ratem primus.
As hard as oak and three times bronze was the heart of him who first committed a
fragile vessel to the keeping of wild waves.
-- Horace, "Carmina"

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: On religious beliefs (was: Constantinus etTeodosius)
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:40:26 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : “Christopher L. Wood“ <xwood@usa.net>

Yes, I think that in a thousand years, the warriors of Rasta will be the
>makers of Empire the global republic.
>
Hey man, I hope not! Pass de Bong to help with the shock!
Vib. Mabr. Caes.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Arianism and religion in the late Empire
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:52:10 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : “Christopher L. Wood“ <xwood@usa.net>

Maybe so.. but I think it is little more subtle than that. Formal Arianism
>was allied
>with Gnosticism which had an extensive ranking of the heavenly beings. I
>think this maybe
>was more allied with the popular beliefs in a multitude of gods and demons
>ruling the
>visible & invisible worlds.
>
The big trouble with Gnosticism is that by definition it is both taught and personally experiential, therefore excludes the majority and can become either mere obedience to dogma or the kind of instant guru-claims that we've been seeing since the 60s.

>I think
>he did place a very high emphasis on Christ. Of course, the Christians of
>three centuries
>after Paul had developed a myriad of different interpretations.
>
You get into deep water as to whether Christ is Jesus or a pre-existent divinne spirit which expressed itself through the man Jesus and whether that is synonymous with God. I follow Gnostic lines that we are all divine did we but know it ('Elohiym created Man in their own image, Male and Female created they them'), so the Saviour saves only in the sense of providing an example. Other interpretations make us helpless. This was used by the Ebionite sect to deny the divinity of Jesus, using the rather odd argument that the Spirit is Feminine (In Aramaic) therefore feminine cannot impregnate feminine and since Jesus spoke of his 'Father in Heaven' implies another Father on Earth.

>to Rome, let's look at why Arianism was so popular, and nearly became the
>orthodox
>form of Christianity. I think that the Arian position, that of a hierarchy,
>with a
>distinct relationship of superiority/inferiority reflected the ancient

For the West it was in practice the orthodoxy. Only Rome and Milan and perhaps Lyon really thought otherwise. I think it's simpler, that it appealed to Germans who did not have a sophisticated religion and could understand a very human godman much like Thor and possibly a sense of Something beyond knowable gods but were utterly lost when it came to nitpicking linguistic algebra in Greek over the exact nature of Jesus. I reckon he would have had some choice words to say about most of it too!
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Bestowing a Further Honor
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:44:50 +0100

Salve Illustra Pompeia Cornelia Strabo!

>Sir, I thank you once again for your kind appraisal, and I too, join
>you and others in applauding and contratulating Caeso Fabius
>Quintilianus in your appointment of him as Benefacarius of Sodalitas
>Egressus.

I thank You very much and look forward to work with You even more in
the future.

>The entire page could not be sufficient to cite why he is deserving
>of this position.

I am very honored by such praise. ,You are not so bad You either. (joke!) ;-)

>I wish Caeso Fabius well in all his future endeavors.

I wish You the same and I promise You that the whole Res Publiica
will continue to see me working for the development and strengthening
of Nova Roma in many fields!

>Bene valete,
>Pompeia Cornelia

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:06:51 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : odsod@devilsadvocate.co.uk
To : nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Date : 27 October 2002 22:02:14
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
-----Original Message-----
>From : Gaius Galerius Peregrinator <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
>>
>> I am very sorry to have to disagree with your conclusion. I think you
>>were referring to Ambrosius post in which he was critical of religious
>>fundamentalism. He didn't seem, to me, to be picking on anybody.
>
>Fundamentalists of *all* persuasions have far more in common, though they of course hate to admit it, than they do with anyone else. Christians just happen to have had a long run and somewhat more murderous internal wars than others. This is in part because Christian scripture is not considered mostly the dictated Law of God, Who therefore knows (and intends) every interpretation that can be put upon it, each as good as another; the intention must be derived and only one derivation can be correct. Presumably none of them is since all Christian churches have at some time excommunicated or anathametized each other.
> The sad irony is of course that the one thing all fundamentalists lack is any comprehension of the fundamental ethics in their religions or the context in which things long ago occurred. It is far easier to worship the 'finger pointing at the moon' and to condemn others than to make the effort to understand what the finger is pointing at.
>Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.



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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Welcome Honorable Gallus Minucius Iovinus
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:38:47 +0100

Salve Honorable Gallus Minucius Iovinus, Amice!

Welcome as a citizen of Nova Roma and Provincia Thule. As You live
close to your cousin and Legatus Regionis Suecicae Honorable Vibius
Minucius Falco You could probably get some information from him too.
Please also look at the Thule website at: http://thule.novaroma.org/

I do hope that You both be able to help the barbarian who wants to
become Gaius Minucius Lynx to become a citizen. ;-)

Please send my best regards to your Paterfamilias Illustrus Marcus
Minucius Audens!

Good Luck to You as a new citizen of the micronation of Nova Roma! I
think that You will find it an experience that will enlarge your
life. ;-)
--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Religious Beliefs
From:	"mjk" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:50:08 -0700

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...> wrote:

> Roman BriefpapierSalvete,

>

> > I would say that Christianity did evolve. The coming of the Messiah

> > was predicted throughout the old testament,

>

> Yes, but when Jesus was presented as the 'Son of God', it was a rather

> trendy title 2000 years ago. Before Jesus, Alexander the Great was a son of

> a God and I believe Buddha as well.

>



Salve Diana et omnes,



Lets turn to some Pagan testimony about the coming of this particular messiah. Tacitus who was speaking for the ancient Romans said "People were generally persuaded in the faith of the ancient prophecies, that the East was to prevail and from Judea was to come the master and ruler of the world." Seutonius, in his account of the life of Vespasian recounts the Roman tradition thus: "It was an old and constant belief throughout the East that by indubitibly certain phrophecies, the Jews were to attain the highest power."



China had the same expectations but was on the other side of the world. It believed that the great wiseman would be born in the west. The writings of the Celestial empire say: " In the 24th year of Tchoa Wang of the Dynasty Tcheous,on the 8th day of the 4th moon, a light appeared in the South West which illuminated the King's palace. The monarch, struck by its splendor, interrogated the sages. They showed him books in which the prodigy signified the appearence of the great saint of the West whose religion was to be introduced to their country.



It is thought that the Greeks expected him. Aschylus in his Prometheus 6 centuries before wrote - Look not for any end, morover to this course until God appears, to accept upon his head the pangs of thine own sins vicarious."



Now how did the Magi know of his coming? Probably through the many prophecies circulated through the world by the Jews and also of the prophecies made to the gentiles by the Prophet Daniel before the Messiah's birth.



Cicero after recounting the sayings of ancient oracles and the Syblius about " a king whom we must recognize to be saved" asked in expectation " To what man and to what period of time do these predictions point?" The 4th Ecologue of Virgil recounted the same ancient tradition and spoke of a chaste woman smiling on her infant boy, with whom the iron age will pass away.



Seutonius quoted a a contemporary author to the effect that the Romans were so fearful of a King who would rule the world that they ordered all children born that year to be killed - that order was of course never fufilled - until King Herod.



Plato and Socrates also spoke of the Logos and universal wiseman to come.Confucius spoke of a Saint; the Sybylis - a Universal King; the Greek dramatist - of a Savior and redeemer to unloose man " from the primal eldist curse. All these points were on the side of the Pagan gentile side of the expectation. Again, the Christians believe that what separates this Messiah Christ from all the others is that he was expected and that fact does separate him from the others.





In previous arguments, I was trying to point out that Christianity was not the
reason for the fall of Rome. Like I said , the Republic fell 90 years before
Christ and after 100 years of civil war. I f you study the New Testament you
will find that Christ said " Render to Caesar what is Caesar's. A Roman
Centurion asked Jesus to heal his servent. Christ said that never have I
seen so much faith in all my time. We still quote the Centurion's response
at communion " Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, only say the word and I
shall be healed". Paul repeatedly instructs Christians to honor the state,
obey Caesar and his laws as well as (yak) paying your taxes. This does not
seem to be subversive.

Please also remember, starting with Nero that the Christians were used as
scapegoats to take attention away from his excesses and overspending. Nero's
own people toppled him, not the Christians. Other emperors blamed the
Christians when their own gods seemed to fail them as well. Even as Gaius
Nerva told me in a letter, in the big Jewish revolt in 60 ad the Christians
stayed the heck out of that.

The Eastern Christian Roman Empire or Byzantium did last another 1000 years
until the Moslems (Ottomans) subdued her with cannon. That point has not been
overlooked in our conversations.

Also remember that
Pagan Rome trounced on some of the other Pagan religions as well because of their practices of human sacrifice. No Roman historian ever mentioned that a Christian was actually
caught cannibalizing. There is ample evidence for the Carthaginians -
of sacrificed children's coffins displayed in Tunis (formally
Carthage) and bodies from the well preserved sacrificed bog people in
England and Europe. My worthy opponent in this debate did disagree with me on that saying the Romans exaggerated that but then again how can we believe anything else then. If they lied about the Pagans then it would follow that they probably lied about the Christians as well. The words of liars have no credibility for any argument. Anyway I could also list thousands of atrocities committed by non - Christian and Pagan societies but too numerous to put in this posting.



I agree Christianity has integrated much pagan ritual into its ceremonies. Not only for Rome but my Mexican wife and I put on The Day of The Dead ceremony which is All Souls day in Mexico incorporating both Aztec and Catholic traditions, costumes and displays.



No religion has a monopoly on be hijacked be evil people, hypocrisy etc. In the past I would not liked to have been la pagan living under Theodosis, or having my eyes gouged out like in Sweden. Similarly I would not like to have been a Christian living on the coasts of Great Britain
Christian when the pagan Vikings paid a visit or have been a poor East Indian traveler when the Thugee cult was around 150 years ago.



Even today I have friends who are both Christian, Muslim, and Pagan (particularly Wicca). We respect each other's beliefs and get along fine practicing religion as we see fit. Still, all of us have slipped and fallen into poorer human, jealousy, greed, selfishness, uncaring etc - and yes my Pagan friends as well believe it or not.



Historical Source - Life Of Christ By Fulton J. Sheen - Cambridge University Press - 1961



Yours respectfully,



Quintus Lanius Paulinus



Scriba Praefecti

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA




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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] MLC: subscribtions closed
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Mon, 28 Oct 2002 00:28:48 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

The subscriptions for the MAXIMI LUDI CIRCENSES, the last virtual races
organized by Illustrus Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, are
closed.
This Ludi appoint the BEST CHARIOTEER OF 2755 between the best players which
have parteciped in the past editions.

We have 12 players: 4 Greens, 4 Reds, 3 Whites and 1 brave Blue!
Tomorrow Caeso Fabius Quintilianus will announce the Opening of teh Quarters
and Illustrus Gnaeus Salix Galaicus will tell you the stories in the
evening.

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] On the subject of Temples..
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:35:28 EST

In a message dated 10/27/02 11:28:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mscommunication@attbi.com writes:


> Does anyone have any layouts or descriptions of the inside of the
> average temple they could share? I'd be very interested in seeing
> one. Thanks.
>
>

I have Hellenistic ones. Romans were similar.

Q. Fabius Maximus


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Disagreement with system failure in Rome's "fall."
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:40:10 EST

In a message dated 10/27/02 11:59:00 AM Pacific Standard Time,
hirtius75ch@yahoo.de writes:


> The system (i.e. the Empire) destroyed
> itself, in the end. Christianity on the other hand
> managed to preserve some Romanitas, which then evolved
> into our modern western civilisation

And I disagree. There were four main reasons why the Dominate fell, and two
of those can be traced back to Principate with had nothing to do with the
system. Remember only half the Dominate fell, so the system still worked.
Valete
Q. Fabius


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On the subject of Temples..
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:55:58 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 10/27/02 11:28:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> mscommunication@a... writes:
>
>
> > Does anyone have any layouts or descriptions of the inside of the
> > average temple they could share? I'd be very interested in seeing
> > one. Thanks.
> >
> >
>
> I have Hellenistic ones. Romans were similar.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
> Salve Fabi Maxime,

Ah, a welcome change to the relgion debate. I'm getting writer's
cramp and need a change. Please check out this impressive website I
found with instructions on how to build a Roman temple. Its a model
but one should be able to apply the ideas to the real thing as
architects do.
If I won a lottery I'd love to have this in my yard.


http://www.hirstarts.com/temple/temple.html





Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome Honorable Gallus Minucius Iovinus
From:	"H Minucia Caesar" <theladysabine@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:56:27 -0000

Salve, brother! Welcome to the Gens Minucia. :)

Horatia Minucia Caesar
Nova Britannia