Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Away
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:03:40 -0500 (EST)

Ladies and Gentlemen;

I shall be away in Asbury Park, NJ on Friday and Saturday of this
weekend, returning on Sunday. If anyone in New Jersey would like to
meet with me I will be somewhere around General Grant's tent on the open
park down by the Beach Theatre and boardwalk. This is in the same
immediate vicinity as the Berkley-Carteret Beach Hotel. I am serving on
Gen. Grants' staff as his Engineer this weekend., and will be staying in
the hotel Friday Night.

For those who may be interested, don't forget the Gladitorial School
appearance with the XXIVth Legio in Philadelphia. See the XXIVth Legion
Newsletter in the Main List archives, for exact time and place as well
as directions.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

(aka; Jim Mathews)

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] LUDI MAXIMI CIRCENSES: The Final
From:	"Alejandro Carneiro" <piteas@inicia.es>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 00:14:47 -0000

Avete, citizens!

It is the great moment of the Ludi of the champions! Four chariots
will run for the glory of being the best one of the year. Four
chariots chosen for an only and historical chance: To be the first
champion annual of Nova Roma's History.

These are the lucky participants of the final race:

FINAL
--------------------------------------------------------------

Gladius Albus
driver: Damnator
by Marcus Octavius Solaris
Race tactic: (4)
Factio: Albata

Inexpugnabilis
driver: Ignis
by Caius Curius Saturninus
Race tactic: (1)
Factio: Praesina

Crux Australis
driver: Victor Hispanicus
by Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Race tactic: (6)
Factio: Veneta

Essedum
driver: Italicus
by Manius Constantinus Serapio
Race tactic: (1)
Factio: Praesina

We see a white chariot, another blue and two ones. The red color has
disappeared of the steps. The famous coloured Armada is suffering a
moment of crisis after her victory in the Ludi Victoria. Maybe it is
because of the hangover of the victory, but her absence is shameful.
Many red fans have preferred to be in their homes sleeping a
distressing siesta or to play to the playing cards in the most
nearby "caupona". Nobody with red heart wants to hear anything about
the final.
Nevertheless, the white, blue and especially green fans fill the
steps with their flags, placards and songs of war. The hustle is
deafening and the emotion is breathed in the environment. But all
four drivers are very concentrated in the sign of "go!", the
undulating scarf of the Aedilis Curulis.
The silence invades the circus when the aedilis gets up, shows his
scarf and throws it on the sand.

The race begins!!!

The wicked Damnator of Gladius Albus tries to assault with his whip
to Ignis de Inexpugnabilis. It is his typical tactics of destroying
the rivals lashing them up to the final victory. But Ignis leaves him
behind thanks to the speed of his horses. The green fans applaud
their champion while Damnator directs now his ire against Crus
Australis. The blue chariot isn´t slow either and it overtakes to
Damnator's chariot as an arrow. The blue fans are now who applaud
because of the happiness. Damnator and the white fans are furious.
Their chariot is not so fast as the rivals, the defeat is sure, but
before the honor that to be humiliated like the Russata factio:
Damnator leads his chariot in a suicidal assault against the veteran
Essedum.
Italicus of Essedum tries to avoid to the white chariot but he can
not do anything against a maddened rival. Gladius Albus and Essedum
hits in the middle of the track while Damnator shouts his famous
phrase "If you can not win, destroy them!". The crash is brutal and
both drivers are thrown on the steps, in the white sector. The
gravely injured, shocked and evil Damnator is walked on shoulders by
his fans while the honest Italicus suffers an attempt of "albata"
lynching, but finally the pretorians saved him from a sure death.
Now only two chariots stay in the race!
The blue Crus Australis and the green Inexpugnabilis fight for the
victory without using either violent tactics or dirty tricks. Both
trust in the speed of their horses, the lightness of their chariots
and their own skills. The green and blue fans outcry, howl, jump,
push and kick out on the steps. The tension is maximum. A group of
radical red fans enters the circus with a great placard: "Gods, hear
us, Praesina NOT, NOT, NOT... please!"
But the Gods didn´t listen to their request. In the last meters,
Inexpugnabilis galloped more quickly and won for a few centimeters of
advantage. The howling victory of thousands of green throats came up
to the moon.

Inexpugnabilis win!!!

The Praesina win!!

Results
1st: Inexpugnabilis
2th: Crux Australis
3th: Italica (accident)
4th: Gladius Albus (accident)

THE BEST CHARIOT OF THE 2755 IS INEXPUGNABILIS

Caius Curius Saturninus, owner of Inexpugnabilis, receives on the
middle of the sand the praises, congratulations and regards of his
companions of factio while his chariot does the triumphal lap covered
with flamboyant green flags. It is a great day for him, the first
champion annual citizen of the chariot races in Nova Roma.
The factio Praesina has demonstrated this year that she doesn´t have
rivals. Her victories are abundant and numerous. When the reds,
whites or blues will defy successfully the green power? Who knows,
but at the present time the circus has only one color: The one of
the factio Praesina.

Bona Fortuna!

Salix Galaicus
scriba cursus equorum aedilis curulis
(scribe of the races)


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On Cornelia's resignation: flexible views
From:	"g_agorius_taurinus" <g_agorius_taurinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:22:24 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:

> I honestly believe that the man is entitled to his opinion. When I
attempted
> to point out what the College was doing, I saw that his views were
> inflexible, and I withdrew.

Q. Fabius:

I hope you aren't meaning to state that my views are inflexible.
Nothing could be further from the truth. My views are quite flexible.
And if my views seem to be otherwise, I would ask this:
how "flexible" are the views of the people who argued against me, and
then who tried to ban and prohibit me? This situation has more than
one side.

G. Agorius Taurinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] ENC: Iuramenta/Juramento/Oath (Temple of Concordia)
From:	"Titus Arminius Genialis" <tagenialis@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:23:38 -0200

IVRAMENTA

Ego, Titus Arminius Genialis hoc ipso facto
sollemniter IVRO Novae Romae decus defendere et semper pro
Novae Romae Populo atque Senatu agere.

Ut Novae Romae magistratus ego Titus Arminius Genialis Romae
deos deasquecolere IVRO in omnibus publicae vitae temporibus
atque Romanas virtutes et publica et privata vita persequi.

Ego Titus Arminius Genialis Romanam religionem favere et
defendere IVRO ut Novae Romae Reipublicae religionem et
numquam agere ita ut eius status publicae religionis aliquid
detrimenti capiat.

Praeterea ego Titus Arminius Genialis IVRO quam
optime fungi officium muneris apparitoris templi Concordiae.

Meo Novae Romae civis honore et coram Populi Romani deis atque
deabus eteorum voluntate et favore, munus apparitoris templi
Concordiae ACCIPIO una cum iuribus, privilegiis. munera atque
officia quae meum munus comportat.

In Brasiliae Provincia, Pridie Novembras, MMDCCLV A.V.C.

JURAMENTO

Eu, Titus Arminius Genialis, por meio deste solenemente juro
guardar a honra de Nova Roma, e trabalhar sempre para os melhores
interesses do Senado e povo de Nova Roma.

Como um magistrado de Nova Roma, Eu, Titus Arminius Genialis, juro
honrar os Deuses e Deusas de Roma nas minhas atividades públicas,
bem como almejar as virtudes públicas romanas na minha vida pública
e privada.

Eu, Titus Arminius Genialis, juro sustentar e defender a Religio
Romana como a Religião Estatal de Nova Roma e juro nunca agir de forma
que vá ameaçar sua posição como religião oficial.

Eu,Titus Arminius Genialis, juro proteger e defender a constituição de
Nova Roma.

Eu, Titus Arminius Genialis, no mais juro cumprir as obrigações e
responsabilidades do cargo de apparitor templi Concordia no melhor de
minhas habilidades.

Pela minha honra como cidadão de Nova Roma, na presença dos Deuses e
Deusas do Povo Romano, pelas suas mercês e favores, aceito a magistratura
de apparitor templi Concordiae bem como todos seus direitos, privilégios,
obrigações e responsabilidades decorrentes de agora em diante.

Provincia Brasilia, Pridie Novembras, MMDCCLV A.V.C.

OATH

I, Titus Arminius Genialis do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the
honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the
people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Titus Arminius Genialis swear to
honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to
pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Titus Arminius Genialis swear to uphold and defend the Religio
Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in
a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Titus Arminius Genialis swear to protect and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Titus Arminius Genialis further swear to fulfill the obligations
and responsibilities of the office of apparitor templi Concordiae to
the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of apparitor templi Concordiae and all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Provincia Brasilia, Pridie Novembras, MMDCCLV A.V.C.

Titus Arminius Genialis.
tagenialis@yahoo.com.br
ICQ 75873373

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Mensagem enviada está livre de vírus.
Enviada por GNBS através do MSO2K.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 19/9/2002

_______________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Encontros
O lugar certo para encontrar a sua alma gêmea.
http://br.encontros.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Beauty!
From:	Pan144@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:58:53 EST

Thank you very much for that website, > Quintus Lanius Paulinus. The pictures
are truly breathtaking and wonderful!
Apicius Faunius Commisator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:59:36 -0800 (PST)

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
>
> >> says, but then it says that those who say
> anything
> >> about the Religio or its
> >> practitioners, even those who are obviously very
> >> fundamentalist, who promote
> >> religious prejudice, are subject to being called
> >> 'blasphemers'
> >
> >This refers to section VI a. of Nova Roma's
> >constitution the key phrase being
> >
> >“Magistrates, Senators, and citizens need not be
> >practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not
> >engage in any activity that intentionally
> blasphemes
> >or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its
> >practitioners.“
> >
> This says nothing of the sort. It says that activity
> intended to offend or insult is subject to
> stricture. That has nothing to do with 'anything
> about the Religio'. It is no more than laws against
> deliberate slander or insult applied to the Symbols
> of the common ethos. To make the equation made here
> is equivalent to pretending that prohibition against
> personal insult and attack prevents talk about a
> person's activities.
> VIbius AMbrosius Caesariensis.
>
Funny,
Someone showed my post to Pompeia Cornelia, and she
relayed word to me that my interpatation was EXACTLY
what she was refering to in her last post.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Your attention please
From:	Tribunus Darius <legioqc@yahoo.ca>
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:52:14 -0500 (EST)

Quintus

Salve,

I thank you for the suggestion about the various
settings. I will certainly look into it. Perhaps
others could consider the same. I do agree that the
Main List is important and that is why I felt I needed
to inetervene.

Vale

M Darius

--- Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
wrote: > Salve M. Dari
>
> With respect, this forum is the main communication
> with Nova Roma. It
> is the door to all the other departments of NR. The
> forum chatline is
> usually ad dead as a doornail as you know. If you
> are swamped with
> too many emails like my friend Galerius Peregrinator
> why not change
> your settings in yahoo to "don't send mail. I'll
> read the message
> board later."
>
> I belong to all the sodalistas and only recieve mail
> from the most
> important ones that need my contribution but have
> little traffic.
> Besides, without this very active list I am sure
> much interest in NR
> would fade if we only had a few postings a day.
>
> Yours respectfully,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., Tribunus Darius
> <legioqc@y...> wrote:
> > Velete civites,
> >
> > I agree this forum is often like a chat room.
> Please
> > use proper NR means of communication available to
> all.
> > A similar situation occured last year at the same
> time
> > due to the post September 11th events. More
> monitring
> > may be required for now until this tool of
> > communication is utilized properly.
> >
> > Valete Bene
> >
> > M Darius
> >
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, this forum is not a chat
> room. I
> > > come home and my
> > > box is
> > > > full, with but 2 maybe 3 posts worth the time
> to
> > > read. NR has a
> > > chat room.
> > > > Please use it.
> > > >
> > > > Valete
> > > >
> > > > Galerius Peregrinator.
> > > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Marcus Darius Firmitus, Tribunus Militum
> Angusticlavus
> > Legio XII Fvlminatae Cohors II
> > Regio Nova Gallia
> > http://cf.geocities.com/legioqc
> http://www.novaroma.org
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
>
> > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

=====
Marcus Darius Firmitus, Tribunus Militum Angusticlavus
Legio XII Fvlminatae Cohors II
Regio Nova Gallia
http://cf.geocities.com/legioqc http://www.novaroma.org

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] *******PRAESINA!!!!!!******
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 01:58:51 -0000

AVETE OMNES!!!!!!!

PRAESINA WON!!!!!!!
MAY SATURNINUS GET GLORY FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE!!!!!

GREEN GREEN GREEN GREEN !!!!!

This message is especially directed to the fans of the Russata! ;-)

Congratulations Saturnine! You honoured our colour!
MAY THE GODS KEEP SMILING ON THE PRAESINA!!!!!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Owner of "Essedum" (Praesina!!!!)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: SCA sword Jocks
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:00:25 -0800 (PST)

Ambrosius Silvanius Virbius Epulones writes:

[about the SCA rapier marshall Giovanni di Fiamma]

> I have heard of him thru some of the Middle kingdom
> fencers.

He does get around. These days he lives in
Trimeris, though he was in the West when I first
met him. His rapier school is expanding beyond the
Society, in some respects, as he seeks a more
realistic representation of the art. I last saw
him in July, in Nashville.

> Have you fought rapier at the Pennsic War?

No, I have never been to Pennsic. The nature of my
work (space based astronomy) prevents me from taking
that much time away from the spacecraft. Perhaps
someday I'll retire and have more time for the fun
things like Pennsic and Roman Days.

> I fought for the Middle Kingdom
> champions at the last war I was at in 95.

An honor worth claiming!

> I really enjoyed fencing
> the Eastern fighters as they were all very good.

Yes, the Carolingians in particular are legendary.

I'm in Atlantia, in the barrony of Lochmere, though
I have not been active this past year. Too much
other stuff going on.

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:28:13 -0800 (PST)

L. Sicinius Drusus writes:

> Someone showed my post to Pompeia Cornelia, and she
> relayed word to me that my interpatation was EXACTLY
> what she was refering to in her last post.

I suspected as much. Thank you for posting this
information Drusus. It gives us a better
understanding
of the situation.

May I invite you to discuss your proposed changes to
the Constitution with me and other interested parties
over in NovaRomaLaws? I agree that something should
be done, and I think your insights would be valuable.

=====
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus to Senior Curule Aedile Caeso Fabius Quintilianus

The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] concerning the Princeps Senatus
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:35:00 EST

In a message dated 10/31/02 1:53:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
from@darkeye.net writes:

> it is easy to see that Marcus Minucius Audens
> joined Nova Roma and founded his patrician gens of Minucia the 1st of
> July 1998, one month before you joined and founded gens Fabia.
>
>

Interesting. Thanks for the information.

Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] SCA sword Jocks
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:39:08 EST

In a message dated 10/31/02 1:58:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
equitius_marinus@yahoo.com writes:

> I have the honor to claim some
> training under Giovanni di Fiamma. Perhaps you've
> heard of him?
>

Oh yes. Raiper? I was on the Sabre team at UCSD. Different schools of
attack.
Sinister, yes, that was the latin word I was trying to remember, thank you
Equitius Marinus

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Action & Responsibility
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:45:08 -0500

On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 09:38:59PM +0000, me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:

Salve, Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis -

> >> ?You are responsible for the predictable consequences of your own actions. You
> >> are not responsible for the predictable consequences of somebody else's actions.?
> >
> debate: should we not add to this couplet the statement, 'You are
> responsible for the predictable consequences of your own *inactions*'?

No, we shouldn't. You can't really "add" to someone else's quote,
any more than you can "add" to Shakespeare. You can always play with the
ideas, though. :)

> I think we could include inaction as a kind of action. This is one
> that surfaces occasionally on both sides of the 'right to die' debate:
> surely the inaction of not passing a pill to someone dying for lack of
> it counts legally as the action of murder? Ayn

Surely, then, your own inaction in not committing every single second of
your life to fighting for world peace makes you responsible for all the
deaths that would not have occurred otherwise? In, say, fifty years of
concerted effort, surely you would have saved at least one life, and
very likely more. Shouldn't your inaction count legally as the action of
murder?

Assigning responsibility for inaction is a *very* dangerous thing to do,
particularly because of the inherent ease of misuse by those doing the
assigning. As an example, the old Soviet Union had a law which punished
inaction (e.g., not reporting your father/mother/etc. if they spoke
against the government) with a sentence equal to that for the crime
itself. Children were also taught in schools that reporting was the
patriotic thing to do; everyone knew the story of Pavlik Morozov
<http://www.cyberussr.com/rus/pavlik-play-e.html>, "The Hero of the
Pioneers", who turned in his own father. In my opinion, this kind of
result is the eventually inevitable consequence of accepting the
"responsibility for inaction" idea.

I suggest putting on heavy gloves before digging any further into this
topic, and thorough disinfection afterwards. It smells to high heaven.

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Inventas vitam iuvat excoluisse per artes.
Let us improve life through science and art.
-- Inscription on the Nobel Prize winner medals (from Vergil)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: On Cornelia's resignation: flexible views
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:55:54 EST

In a message dated 10/31/02 4:21:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
g_agorius_taurinus@yahoo.com writes:

> And if my views seem to be otherwise, I would ask this:
> how "flexible" are the views of the people who argued against me, and
> then who tried to ban and prohibit me? This situation has more than
> one side.
>

And I ask you, why do take this so personally? I believe everybody's views
here in this discussion were inflexible and that is why it became so heated.
And that's why I withdrew...
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Princeps Senatus
From:	"deciusiunius" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 03:02:03 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@a...>
wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete,

Salve Cassi,

> Cassius:
> Yes, the honor is quite historical. It in fact IS an honorific
>rather than a grant of some sort of official powers.

The position itself was historical, I think people are just trying to
insure that the PROPOSED position will be historical. I don't think
it will be difficult to insure it is with preparation.

> Cassius:
> Yes, it is legal. Germanicus actually left specific provision for
>the office when Nova Roma was created... and he intended to fill it.
> Early on he spent some time trying to gain support for his being
> nominated for the office.

Just to clarify the historical record, this is not true. Germanicus
had given NO thought to the position prior to the founding of Nova
Roma, though he was open to consider it when it was suggested to him.
Just to smooth any future doubts about the position I tried to get
him to add the position to the final draft of the Constitution a few
weeks before we went public with Nova Roma. He decided it was not
important at the time. (The clause that would have been added to the
Constitution has been forwarded to our current consuls.) Germanicus
thought all that would be needed to create the position in the future
would be a Senatus Consultum, especially as the position is only a
honorific. He was right, though it would have gone more smoothly in
the current situation if the position had been created and ironed out
before making a public nomination of an individual to hold the post.
I understand the timing of the announcement, however.

I actually do not recall Germanicus bucking for the position; early
on he could just as easily have appointed himself to the position or
had us vote him the honor but that did not happen.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius,
Senator

>
> >
> > I Have no problems with the concept of the office, or
> > with the person nominated. What I don't like is the
> > prospect that we may be creating new problems in a
> > rush to create this office, nor do I care forthe fact
> > that bestowing this honor on a Christian does nothing
> > to address the unfair postion he and other non Roman
> > Pagans are in due our vauge Blasphmy Laws.
>
> Cassius:
> I have raised the issue of this 'blasphemy clause' in the Collegium
> Pontificum. We're discussing exactly what sort of changes would be
> best.
>
> That situation has nothing to do with proposing an honorific for
the
> most respected Senator in the Senate. The proposal is *not* a rush,
> either... Octavius brought up the issue quietly to a few folks a
> couple of months ago, to see if there was support for it. There IS
> support - but the proposal got overshadowed by Gens discussion,
> Consular vetoes, etc.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 22:10:05 -0500 (EST)

L. Drusus and Marinus;

In my discussion with Pompeia about the Militarium, she mentioned this
aspect, and I in turn mentioned the remarks that Drusus had made. We
were talking on the phone so I didn't pass along the actual message, but
Pompeia immediately indicated that she thought that the idea that Drusus
was formulating and trying to ake the citizens aware of was absolutely
on the button.

So if it means anything to you, -- You have my attention as well!!!!

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Surgery request
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 03:42:00 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Piparskeggr Ullarsson <piparskegg@y...> wrote:
>
> This is very important, as Yahoo has imposed size limits on list
archives. If
> one goes to the Nova Roma list page and clicks to the messages
archive, one
> will see in the upper right hand corner a little tally of the
archive memory
> size. As of the writing of this message it read: Using 14.6 of 32
MB (45%)

Salvete omnes!

I have wondered about this myself recently. One of the more hurting
aspects of the sacking of Rome by the Gauls in 387 BC (from the view
of a historian) was the destruction of almost all written records
that existed then about Roma antiqua. A main reason, one supposes,
why we have so little exact information of what truly happened before
that time.

Our Archives are the backbone of our history. They should survive the
people that leave Nova Roma and they almost did not survive after
Priscilla Vedia shut down the old official list (I wonder whether
Consul Germanicus and others were given enough credit for the saving
of the list archives when this happened).

Is there any way to buy additional archive memory from Yahoo? Yahoo
offers a few services I dearly miss even now that the old Vedian
archive is put on our website. If there is a way to pay for it, I
humbly suggest that the Consuls think about putting it into the
upcoming budget. Good infrastructure is definitely something I would
like to see my Tax Euro paying for.

Apart from that, trimming is a good practice potentially helping the
State save some money and thankfully keeping our mailboxes from
overflowing.

Avete et Valete

Marcus Marcius Rex


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] P. Cornelia's Resignation
From:	"aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 04:08:53 -0000

I am very saddened to see Pompeia resign. I enjoyed working with her
and hope we'll be able to find someone who can fill her shoes.

---
Renata Corva
Scriba Praetoris


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Salvete from Las Vegas
From:	"tojackso" <tojackso@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 04:00:13 -0000

Salvete and Xairete,

I'm an Hellenion member who now lives in Las Vegas. I am in the
service of Apollo. One of my roommates is also a Hellene. I wonder if
there are any Romans the Vegas area who also worship the Deathless
Ones (I understand that not all of you do). If so, I would love to
get in touch with you!

Hie Paian!

Todd Jackson


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] *******PRAESINA!!!!!!******
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2002 22:50:36 -0600

I know it's not Latin but, Hip Hip Hooray!!! for Praesina.
Sextus Cornelius Cotta

--
A Green Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma

iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
YahooMsgr: iguard2


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: PROUD TO BE A ROMAN "PAGAN!"
From:	Larry Freeman <larrythebear@askmamafreeman.com>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 00:47:55 -0500

Salvete Quintus Lanius Paulinius,
Please excuse the delay in this reply to your request for clarification on
my statement. What I mean was. That in the days of the RES PUBLICA, was
that there was to a certain degree religious freedom, basically, as long as
you did not bother anyone you were pretty much free to worship as you
pleased, what ever deity that you pleased. After all with all the various
people's that the Republic and later the Empire conquered there were people
from a lot of places and a lot of different religions represented in the
Roman world. And there were different religions accepted in the Republic,
and later in the Empire. The freedom that these people had to worship these
different deities, was what made both Roma and the Religio great. Because
basically that freedom was not given to very many conquered people in
area's that were conquered by anyone else. With a lot of conquering people,
when they took over, that was it. They ran the show, in just about every
aspect.
The jest of what I meant was, the freedom to worship peacefully, and
lawfully was what made the RES PUBLICA and ROMA herself great. That's all
I meant. Thank you for your request, and if this has not been clear enough
please feel free to write again.
Valete En Pace.
Laurenicus Flavius Magus.
ROMA VICTOR SEMPER EST.

At 04:57 AM 10/28/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Salve Laurenici,
>
>All Nova Romans share, especially myself share your sentiment that
>Religio Romano is
>a foundation of the Res Republica along with its important virtues
>and is a vital contribution to the Res Republica. Again, the
>religion will not be infringed upon as many of us have sworn in the
>oath of office.
>What I would like to know is what this "emotional appeal" has to do
>with the discussion of the good or evil of Judeo- Christianity that
>we have been posting over the last few days. Some of the pagan sects
>that I mentioned had some problems were the Celtic ones as well as
>the Thugee cults in India that demanded human sacrifice, a situation
>that Religio Romano did not tolerate in its empire. Nothing bad has
>been expressed by anyone on Religo Romano. Would you please clarify
>your position a little more.
>
>Yours respectfully,
>
>Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Larry Freeman <larrythebear@a...> wrote:
> > Salvete!!!
> > That is also the main reason that I joined NOVA ROMA was because of
>the
> > RELIGIO ROMANA. For without it there can be no revival of the
>RESPUBLICA.
> > For the RELIGIO was what made ROMA truely great.
> > HAIL ROMA.
> > ROMA VICTOR SEMPER EST.
> > Valete!!!
> > Laurenicus Flavius Magus.
> >
> > At 10:04 PM 10/27/02 +0100, you wrote:
> > >Salvete!
> > >
> > > > SALVETE OMNES! The main reason I joined Nova Roma was
> > > > because of the RELIGIO ROMANA!!! And I firmly believe
> > > > that what made Roma great was not only our Roman
> > > > virtues, BUT THE OLD REPUBLICAN FORM OF THE RELIGIO
> > > > and the CVLTVS DEORVM and devotion to the MOS
> > > > MAIORVM!!! VALETE! FRATER GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, PGI.
> > >
> > > >>I agree with you 100%! The Religio Romana was the main reason
>I joined
> > > >>the Republic.G. Modius Athanasius
> > >
> > >Me three!! I agree with G. Modius Athanasius and Gaius Julius
>Julianus.
> > >I also found Nova Roma in my search for others who followed the
>Religio
> > >Romana.
> > >Valete,
> > >Diana Moravia Aventina
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 250
From:	Caius Curius Saturninus <c.curius@welho.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:01:27 +0200

Salvete,

This victory is not just a victory for my great chariot and it's
great driver, most of all this is victory for the GREENS!

We will be strong next year as well, so all the GREEN ones there,
keep up the fighting spirit and train your horses well during the
winter break!

And any new GREENS, please join to the Factio Praesina mailing list
and let us old ones to get you into the world of chariot racing in NR.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina/

Valete

>But the Gods didn´t listen to their request. In the last meters,
>Inexpugnabilis galloped more quickly and won for a few centimeters of
>advantage. The howling victory of thousands of green throats came up
>to the moon.
>
>Inexpugnabilis win!!!
>
>The Praesina win!!
>
>
>Results
>1st: Inexpugnabilis
>2th: Crux Australis
>3th: Italica (accident)
>4th: Gladius Albus (accident)
>
>THE BEST CHARIOT OF THE 2755 IS INEXPUGNABILIS
>
> Caius Curius Saturninus, owner of Inexpugnabilis, receives on the
>middle of the sand the praises, congratulations and regards of his
>companions of factio while his chariot does the triumphal lap covered
>with flamboyant green flags. It is a great day for him, the first
>champion annual citizen of the chariot races in Nova Roma.
> The factio Praesina has demonstrated this year that she doesn´t have
>rivals. Her victories are abundant and numerous. When the reds,
>whites or blues will defy successfully the green power? Who knows,
>but at the present time the circus has only one color: The one of
>the factio Praesina.

--
Caius Curius Saturninus

Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Scriba Aedilis (Caeso Fabius Q.) Concursus

e-mail: c.curius@welho.com
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: PROUD TO BE A ROMAN "PAGAN!"
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 06:40:12 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Larry Freeman <larrythebear@a...> wrote:
> Salvete Quintus Lanius Paulinius,
> Please excuse the delay in this reply to your request for
clarification on
> my statement. What I mean was. That in the days of the RES
PUBLICA, was
> that there was to a certain degree religious freedom, basically, as
long as

Snip for space

Salve Sir,

Thanks for your reply. Sounds fair enough to me. I weened off this
religious discussion on the list over the last day because I said all
I can (and know) so anything else would be repetative and productive
no more. Would you or anyone else write to my email if you want to
continue the old heated discussion and I'll be happy to reply in a
private setting.

Yours Respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 02:39:37 -0800 (PST)

You know I've been gone for awhile and when I returned to the E-mails I've been getting about Christ I found my self sick.You have showed me or my people no respect when you down on my believes.I thought NR was better than that!!!! What do I find, a ton of anti-Christian letters.What a load of CRAP! I thought NR brought in everybody no-mater whom they believed in.{Or is it come in but you better change or we just weed you out} You've only shown that NR is going to be religiously intolerant and push away those that don't belive in your gods.This makes me want to Reich! I'm hoping that there is a very good reason for your grossly poor e-mails becase this is no way to grow a peaceful nation
BRUCE PORTER aka G.Porticus Brutis

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 02:40:16 -0800 (PST)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 02:42:34 -0800 (PST)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: On religious beliefs
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 02:52:46 -0800 (PST)

Thank you G.Cassius Nerva and shalom
gcassiusnerva <gcassiusnerva@cs.com> wrote:--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...> wrote:
> Roman BriefpapierSalvete,
>...when Jesus was presented as the 'Son of God', it was a rather
trendy title 2000 years ago. Before Jesus, Alexander the Great was a
son of a God and I believe Buddha as well.

NERVA responds: Diana, before Alexander, and before Buddha, Israelite
Kings were enthroned with Psalms which in effect called him the Son Of
God. The phrase did develop in meaning of course, and originally
meant no more that God had "adopted" the reigning King. But the
origin of it in Christian circles was not derived from Alexander or
from Buddha, but from Judaic texts. {You are my son. Today I have
become a father to you}

<<Women did not have souls and later that was changed.>>

NERVA: That is incorrect. Nestorius, a Bishop did indeed teach women
had no souls---and he and his teaching were both condemned at an
ecumenical council.

<<Now it is only animals that fit into this soulless category, making
it easy for us to exploit them without guilt.>>

NERVA: Christianity never had animal sacrifice. Pagans did.
Christianity did not endanger wildlife through an insatiable appetite
for bestiariis to honor the shades of the dead. Roman paganism did.
I hope you are not trying to imply that classical paganism was somehow
"animal friendly".

<<Another (very smart) tactic of the Christians to convert people was
by renaming Pagan holidays into Christian ones.>>

NERVA: There is a myth popular among pagans that some alien race
called "The Christians" somehow entered Rome and proceded to "steal"
the holidays of other people.

The truth is that these Christians in Rome *were Romans* and all they
did was reapply their own holidays {which were already theirs by
culture they were raised in} to the religion they adopted. There was
no "stealing". Since they were born, lived, breathed, worked, and died
within the Roman world, they had as much right to their own accustomed
celebrations as any would-be "reconstructionist" or "neo-pagan" has
today.

<<Christianity is the perfect tool for an oppressive government. The
bible says that the more one suffers on this earth, the greater the
reward will be in heaven. This is a very defeatist belief, which is a
great way of keeping people repressed and down. If the poor oppressed
common folk believe that,then they'll never revolt.>>

NERVA: Actually, if you believe in something beyond this life, it is
not defeatist at all, because them the teaching means that your
suffering is not the end of the story. After all, did not Socrates
deem his execution as a possible good, if in the afterlife he would be
in pleasant conversation with the Greek heros of the past? Now if the
teaching is used out of it's context {which is plain to one who
actually studies the literature} as an excuse for inflicting hardship,
then is that the fault of the teaching, or the one misusing it?

<<Pagans take personal responsibility for their actions.>>

A very common feature of classical paganism was the belief in FATE.
Handy doctrine, isn't it? Screw up, or find yourself in a heap of
trouble, don't worry. It was your destiny. I believe the Stoics also
believed in fate. It makes the idea of personal responsibility a bit
hard to reconcile, when things are fated.

<<We are good people because we know that is the correct way to behave
in life. We are not 'coerced' into being good people by thoughts of
eternal damnation in Hell.>>

NERVA: Diana, I like you very much, so please do not take this as
anything more than a slight bit of irritability on my part, ok? But
come on now! {Wollops your head with a pillow}

The truth is you pagans have a couple of "behavioral motivators" of
your own, which are supposed to influence behavior through fear. One
such belief popular among pagans now is KARMA. "If you do something
naughty, it will come back to you!" Another related notion which
seems to be popular among pagan and "alternate" religions is
Reincarnation. "If you do badly or fail to attain a sufficient level
of spirituality, you may be re-born as something you do not want to be!"

So you pagans act so nobly simply because it is right? Well, maybe
you do yourself...but others do so either to avoid karma,
reincarnation, the wrath of the gods, all out of fear. And others do
so not to be good in and of itself, but to get GOOD KARMA, avoid
reincarnation {or at least get a good birth} and get the favor of the
gods. In this case, it is not goodness which motivates them, but the
hope of profit.

Getting back to supernatural terrors. This is the same tactic the
Pagan Numa Pompilious is supposed to have used when he, "judging it no
slight undertaking to mollify and bend to peace the presumptions and
stubborn spirits of this people...began to operate on them with the
sanctions of religion. At times also, he filled their imaginations
with religious terrors, professing that strange apparitions had been
seen, and dreadful voices heard; thus subduing and humbling their
minds by a sense of supernatural feats." {Plutarch, Life of Numa
Pompilius} And didn't the Etruscans have a nasty afterlife for the
wicked as well? The Egyptians certainly did...and those pagans even
had a spell to bribe the judges so even if you were wicked, you could
avoid getting devoured. As for the Romans, they also had a notion of
the dead going into the underworld to be judged by Eita and his wife
Proserpine. In the Roman conception of Hell, demons tortured souls by
throwing them into lakes of boiling gold, freezing lead, and iron
shards. Plato too discusses Hell as a punishment. I think it is in
The Republic. But maybe it was in another book.

And if you meant to imply that Christianity does not teach individual
responsibility, you are again quite mistaken. I have read the New
Testament texts more than once. Those books are full of exhortations
and warnings against a lazy, lax attitude, and one of the most blunt
statements is, "If a man will not work, then let him not eat".
It is not only in Christianity. Look at the Jewish texts also. For
example, in Deuteronomy when the deity tells the Israelites, "The law
I am giving you today is not too hard for you. It is not out of your
reach, that one must ask Who will go up to get it for us?" {I am
trying to quote from memory, so those may not be the most exact words.}

Diana, if you want to castigate those who "do not know their own
religion by try to inform me about mine", well and good. But I have
not seen from you or from the others much knowledge of the religions
you hate either. I am not a Christian, and I am not a pagan. But at
least I know the Christian and Jewish religious texts. Well, at least
I know them pretty well for a layman. And I have been exposed to both
Roman and non-Roman paganism, so I think I have at least a working
knowledge of their basic worldviews, though no expertise. To be
blunt, I have seen mo superiority in the pagans, moral or otherwise.
When I attended some Druid rituals as a guest, I saw people who were
just as sickly, just as screwed up i the head, stuck in destrcutive
relationships...in short, people no better than anyone else.

G. Cassius Nerva


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 02:57:43 -0800 (PST)

Salve,
Nova Roma is NOT represented by the viewpoint of a
single citizen, or a group of citizens no matter how
many posts they make. Do not make the error of
mistaking the views of a Nova Roman for the views of
the nation of Nova Roma.

--- "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> You know I've been gone for awhile and when I
> returned to the E-mails I've been getting about
> Christ I found my self sick.You have showed me or my
> people no respect when you down on my believes.I
> thought NR was better than that!!!! What do I find,
> a ton of anti-Christian letters.What a load of CRAP!
> I thought NR brought in everybody no-mater whom they
> believed in.{Or is it come in but you better change
> or we just weed you out} You've only shown that NR
> is going to be religiously intolerant and push away
> those that don't belive in your gods.This makes me
> want to Reich! I'm hoping that there is a very good
> reason for your grossly poor e-mails becase this is
> no way to grow a peaceful nation
> BRUCE PORTER aka G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Can we please lay this to rest. Was:Relgious Beliefs: Note from Praetor
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:47:33 EST

Brutis et al;

The religious debate came, and it went. I think it would be most prudent to
end the discussion. I think everyone came to the consensus that both
Christians and Pagans are welcome in Nova Roma, there is no need to further
add to the fuel of strife.

In Fellowship:

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 11/1/2002 5:43:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
celtic4usa@yahoo.com writes:

> You know I've been gone for awhile and when I returned to the E-mails I've
> been getting about Christ I found my self sick.You have showed me or my
> people no respect when you down on my believes.I thought NR was better than
> that!!!! What do I find, a ton of anti-Christian letters.What a load of
> CRAP! I thought NR brought in everybody no-mater whom they believed in.{Or
> is it come in but you better change or we just weed you out} You've only
> shown that NR is going to be religiously intolerant and push away those
> that don't belive in your gods.This makes me want to Reich! I'm hoping that
> there is a very good reason for your grossly poor e-mails becase this is no
> way to grow a peaceful nation
> BRUCE PORTER aka G.Porticus Brutis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE LAST LUDI CIRCENSES, LUDI MAXIMI CIRCENSES IS OVER
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:54:28 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

Ludi Maximi Circenses is over. The Champion of the year is Honorable
Caius Curius Saturninus! His chariot Inexpugnabilis with its driver
Ignis won the last race at the Circus for Factio: Praesina. The honor
and the glory belongs to Honorable Caius Curius Saturninus and
Factio: Praesina. Congratulations!

This was the last event in the last Ludi Crcenses. Now the Populus
will have to wait until the next year for this kind of excitement!
Thank You all who have participated in these games or who have
supported those who have run.

Here I also want thank my fantastic team which have been working with
all the Ludi Circenses during this year, Quaestor Illustrus
Franciscus Apulus Caesar, Scriba Aedilis Cursus Equorum Honorable
Gnaeus Salix Galaicus and Honorable Caius Curius Saturninus who
assisted them. I thank You from the bottom of my heart!!!

Soon the Ludi Victoria will be ended!
--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] ELECTION MMDCCLV: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:40:42 -0600 (CST)

Kal. November MMDCCLV

Civibus Novae Romae M. Octavius Germanicus Consul S.P.D.

I hereby announce the start of the political campaign season of MMDCCLV.
Citizens who wish to hold office in MMDCCLVI (2756) may declare their
candidacies, beginning now, by posting to the mailing lists
nova-roma@yahoogroups.com or novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com.
The deadline for declaring candidacy is 12.01 AM, Roman Time,
Tuesday November 12th.

Declarations of candidacy will be saved and made available at the
following location for the duration of the campaign and election:

http://www.novaroma.org/election/2755/

The following magistrates will be elected by the Comitia Centuriata:

CENSOR - 1 position available.

CONSUL - 2 positions available.

PRAETOR - 2 positions available.

Candidates for Censor, Consul, or Praetor must have previously served
six months as an elected magistrate or provincial governor, and must
have been born on or before 1 January 1976 (for Praetor, 1 January 1978).

The following magistrates will be elected by the Comitia Populi Tributa:

CURULE AEDILE - 2 positions available.

QUAESTOR - 8 positions available.

CURATOR ARANEI (webmaster) - 1 position available.

CURATOR DIFFERIUM (publisher) - 1 position available.

ROGATOR - 4 positions available.

Candidates for any of these positions must have been a citizen of Nova Roma
for six full months before 1 January 2003, and must have been born on or
before 1 January 1982.

The election will take place from the 17th to the 23rd of November.

May fortune favor the deserving.

Valete,
M. Octavius Germanicus,
Senior Consul.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Salvete from Las Vegas
From:	"H Minucia Caesar" <theladysabine@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:45:12 -0000

Salve Amice!

Hahahahaa! Just when I leave town, the interesting people show up! I
live in Boston now for college but am from La$ Vega$ and will be
returning in January to see my friends and (foster) family. Do a
little bit of digging around and I bet you will find plenty of
persons in La$ Vega$ who do 'follow the Sun' as you do...It's usually
the Mecca for a different kind of Sun Worshipper, I'm afraid, but
that town has so much to offer you'll just be amazed...

Vale,
Horatia Minucia Caesar
Nova Britannia


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] THE LAST LUDI CIRCENSES, LUDI MAXIMI CIRCENSES IS OVER
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:57:25 +0100

Salvete,

> Here I also want thank my fantastic team which have been working with
> all the Ludi Circenses during this year, Quaestor Illustrus
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar, Scriba Aedilis Cursus Equorum Honorable
> Gnaeus Salix Galaicus and Honorable Caius Curius Saturninus who
> assisted them. I thank You from the bottom of my heart!!!

Thank you very much for those wonderful Ludi you and your team has given to
Nova Roma for the all year. I wish for the next team to do at least the same!!

Valete,

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through MailService.MS -> http://www.MailService.ms


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] ELECTION MMDCCLV: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:19:45 +0000 (GMT)

>I hereby announce the start of the political campaign
>season of MMDCCLV.

Hooray, the campaigning season has officially begun!
For those who consider this list too political, it is
probably for the best is you retire to your country
villa in Cumae for the next month or so ;-)

Fortunately, I love it and will be seen daily in the
Forum Romanum! Guess I'll see some of you there....

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta -- Weekly Roman News and Archeology
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:39:23 +0100

Salvete Omnes,

keep in touch with the latest Roman news at:

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/

Enjoy!!

Vale,

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through MailService.MS -> http://www.MailService.ms


Subject:	thank you.Re: [Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta -- Weekly Roman News and Archeology
From:	asseri@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:16:55 EST

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	thank you Re: [Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta -- Weekly Roman News and Archeology
From:	asseri@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:25:58 EST

Salvette,
Good morning! I just want to say that this a wonderful service. In my mind
one of the best NR has to off the populus. This is a great educational tool
as well.
I was suprised to see my City (Fort Wayne, IN) in one of the them.

We have an Elementary magnet school with a focused Living Latin curriculum.
As well has many of our local high schools have very successful Latin
Programs. This made my day.

thanks so much

Prima Fabia Drusila
(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: thank you Re: [Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta -- Weekly Roman News and Archeology
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:36:45 +0100

Salve Prima Fabia Drusila,

thank you for your kind words. And there is much to come!! ;O)

Vale,

> Salvette,
> Good morning! I just want to say that this a wonderful service. In my mind
> one of the best NR has to off the populus. This is a great educational tool
> as well.

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through MailService.MS -> http://www.MailService.ms


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Attention Propraetores: Provincial Budgets Requested
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:28:45 -0600 (CST)

Salvete Propraetores,

A Senatus Consultum from last year requires propraetores who wish
to be prorogued to send a budget for their provinces for the
following year to the Senate:

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2001-03-11-iv.html

This Senatus Consultum states that the budgets should be received
by November 1st, which is today. However, it also allows for
requests for prorogation to be made in February, even if the
budget statement was late. Please try to get them to us by the
end of this month.

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] new citizen
From:	Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia <arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:30:32 -0800 (PST)

I am very pleased and honored to announce that I have
been adopted into the gens Moravia. Thank you to Diana
Moravia Aventina for such a warm welcome.

Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Princeps Senatus: Clarification of my last message
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:38:42 +0000 (GMT)

It has come to my attention that a paragraph of my last message on this subject might have been taken, due to my unclear language, could easily be misinterpreted. I quote the paragraph below. It could be thought that it's a description of a procedure which is going to take place or at least be put in motion. I must make it clear that this is not at all the case: it is pure hypothesis on my part as to a procedure which could be followed. I am not privy to decision-making procedures in this republic except insofar as they are posted on the main list, and I don't know how things are usually done here. My comments were nothing more than a suggestion and a speculation, intended to demonstrate that the procedure *could* be done in a legal and historical manner without any problems.

Sincere apologies to anyone I have unduly confused or misled.

Jamie

> To return briefly to the point that the award of the title was made
> by the censors: this does not cause a conflict with the Consul's
> intention to propose that the Senate vote on the matter. First, under
> the current constitution of Nova Roma the internal functions and
> procedures of the Senate are determined by that body, and this would
> surely fall under such a heading, since who speaks first is a matter
> of internal procedure. Second, it would not be incomatible with
> historical practice, as the Senate of the ancient republic could pass
> resolutions (senatus consulta) advising any magistrate to perform
> whatever action they thought appropriate, and a Consul had the power
> to ask the Senate to give its advice. So the procedure that could be
> followed in order for this grant to be in accord with both current
> constitutional law and historical practice would be this: The Consul
> asks the Senate to advise the Censors to appoint the nominee, in this
> case Minucius Audens, Princeps Senatus; the Senate votes on the
> resolution; if it passes, the Senate advises the Censors to do this,
> and the Censors may then at their discretion (which would usually
> follow the will of the Senate in such matters, I imagine) make the
> appointment.

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: new citizen
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <curatrix@villaivlilla.com>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:38:04 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
<arnamentia_aurelia@y...> wrote:
> I am very pleased and honored to announce that I have
> been adopted into the gens Moravia. Thank you to Diana
> Moravia Aventina for such a warm welcome.
>
> Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia

My dear Arnamentia, let me be the first to welcome you as a full
citizen to Nova Roma! Our correspondance has been most satisfying,
and I know you have much to contribute.

Again, welcome!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| Rogatrix, MMDCCLV
Scriba, Nova Roma Curator Araneae
Curatrix Araneae,
America Boreoccidentalis
http://ambor.konoko.net


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A little Nova Roma History
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@starpower.net>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:48:45 -0500

Ex offico Censor Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus Quiritiibus SPD

Early in the history of NOVA ROMA I decided to make 'hard copies' of the website.
This was not too difficult *then* and I was able to compile everything in a three ring binder.
I brought the binder to the first Roman Days where Marcus and Patricia Cassii used it at their display. If you look at the picture of the Cassii at their tent you will see a light blue binder in the foreground in front of the T-shirts. I still have this binder. http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/rd1998.html

One of the things that I have kept is a list of the Original Gens that was then kept in chronological order.

On the 21 of April (the birthday of Roma)1998 @ 10:54 AM the order was thus:
1, Gens Vedia
2, Gens Cassia
3, Gens Iunia
4, Gens Maria
5, Gens Anatonia
6, Gens Octavia
7, Gens Nigeria
8, Gens Iulia
9, Gens Equitia
10, Gens Aelia
11, Gens Silvania
12, Gens Cornelia
13, Gens Vellia
14, Gens Hadriania
15, Gens Cordia
16, Gens Planincola
17, Gens Drusus
18, Gens Germanica
19, Gens Maternia
20, Gens Aurelia
21, Gens Terentia
22, Gens Gladia
23, Gens Luciana
24, Gens Titia
25, Gens Poppaea
26, Gens Leonina
27, Gens Ambrosia
28, Gens Flavia
29, Gens Claudia
30, Gens Caecilia Metella *The original plebian gens*
31, Gens Portia

These were the original Patrician Gens, of course some of them were one person gens that became extinct when the "paterfamilias" resigned. They were replaced as time went along. Thus we now have Africana Secunda, Annaea, Antonia, Fabia, Grylla, Minucia, Nigra, Tullia, Ulleria as Patrician Gens.

Although I cannot prove it Gens Minucia/M Min Audens was proposed by me to the Senate, as was the procedure at that time*, when I was Senior Consul. This was confirmed by the Senate. Thus, M Minucius Audens was the first Plebian to be elevated to the Patrician order.

Additionally, I was the first non founder co-opted into the Senate (Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:47:43 EDT) http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/98091001.html

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/constitution_old.html
* Article VII: Gentes (Families) 9. Should the Censors determine that a given Patrician gens is extinct, they may recommend to the Senate that a given Plebian family be elevated to the rank of Patrician. The Senate may then confirm the recommendation by majority vote.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta -- Weekly Roman News and Archeology
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:46:43 -0500

Salve,

This is fantastic! What a great idea. I especially enjoyed the article
on Rome and Scotland - it gives me more ammo to sling at my Celtic recon
friends *grin*.

Thank you for your hard work!

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio [mailto:scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms]

Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 8:39 AM
To: Nova Roma Omnes
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta -- Weekly Roman News and Archeology

Salvete Omnes,

keep in touch with the latest Roman news at:

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/

Enjoy!!

Vale,

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through MailService.MS -> http://www.MailService.ms

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Some reflections on the resignation of Cornelia Strabo
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:40:58 +0000 (GMT)

Cn. Equitius Marinus wrote:

> I didn't offer it as Revealed Truth, but as a bit
> of clarification based on years of association with
> the woman. Furthermore, I offered my clarification
> of her *stated* rationale for resigning, not for
> all the other reasons she may have had as well.

This is understood, and I do not wish to say that Cornelia Strabo was under no other pressures, nor to say that her decision was the wrong one for her personally, nor to deny her the right to make whatever decision she pleases. I merely intended to suggest that the decision was inappropriate for a magistrate, and I think on this we more or less agree.

When you say, however, that you were trying to clarify her rationale, I respectfully suggest that your interpretation does not make her decision seem to me any more logical, and I thought that this was what you intended. If not, fair enough. I don't know whether your intepretation (which was, I think, and please correct me if I'm wrong, essentially that she resigned from her offices and from the main list in order to remedy a situation in which she didn't feel at liberty to state her personal views and defend them) is correct or not, and I do not know whether it would be more charitable to the former Praetor to accept it or not: if I believe your interpretation, then I must believe that she acted in a self-defeating and irrational manner, denying herself precisely the liberty she sought to gain.

It is hard for me not to accept it, however, since, as you say, you speak from a long association with Cornelia Strabo and are better placed than I to make such an assessment. You see, then, that in order to take a charitable view of her I must assume that you are wrong, and contrarywise that to accept your ideas I must consider her actions irrational. Initially I was inclined to the former, but now I am merely bemused.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] On Cornelia's resignation
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:53:59 +0000 (GMT)

I wrote:

> It seems to me there is a third and very important choice: if you do not
> support the riot, do what is in your power to prevent it.

To which Q. Fabius Maximus responded:

> Actually that is correct, but since we are in a virtual forum this makes it
> hard to carry out. The few citizens who attempted to "restrain" the
> disagreement, simply helped escalate it.
> I honestly believe that the man is entitled to his opinion. When I attempted
> to point out what the College was doing, I saw that his views were
> inflexible, and I withdrew.

I agree that everyone is entitled to their say, and indeed my personal feeling is that it's a shame the list needs to be moderated at all, but I have been told that an unmoderated list was found to be unworkable, and I accept that. So indeed, I would probably not have supported an attempt by Cornelia Strabo to limit the debate, or any one person's part in it.

What I am talking about, however, is the ethical question of what one ought to do if something occurs to which one strongly objects. I did not strongly object, consequently I did not act to put a stop to it, and this I would guess was your position too, and that of many others. The former Praetor, however, clearly did strongly object, and in my view was obliged therefore to take action.

Your other point, that it's not always easy to do this, is quite true, but in her particular case of course she did have the power to intervene with great ease, and moreover the obligation to do so. Presumably her election as Praetor means that the majority (or at least the crucial part of the electorate, since simple majority is not how this system works) approved her moral views and wanted them to guide her in her moderation of the list. In this case, she had a mandate from the electorate to moderate the list according to her conscience and guidelines. So I would suggest that in this particular case, the moral agent in question had not only the power but a doubly strong obligation (first as an individual and secondly as a mandated official) to use it.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Senatus Consulta (WAS: Princeps Senatus)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:08:02 +0000 (GMT)

I wrote:

> Incidentally, on a side-note for those interested in constitutional
> practice, the decrees of the Senate (senatus consulta) in the ancient
> republic did not, unlike those under our constitution, have any force of
> law at all. However, there was a convention (and it should be remembered
> that in the ancient republic, as in the current constitution of the U.K.
> and to a lesser extent of many other liberal democracies, conventions were
> very important) that when the Senate passed a sentus consultum a magistrate
> with the authority to issue edicts would transcribe the resolution directly
> into a decree and issue it, thereby giving it legal force.

To which Q. Fabius Maximus responded:

> Actually Jamie, we know this. Have you read all our constitution?
> Vedius tried to follow the old Roman ways as close as possible. That was
> what attracted
> me to NR. He recruited me personally at a convention. As a Roman historian
> I liked what he was doing. So here I am. You sound like a classics student.
> Are you?

I have read the constitution, and am well-acquainted with it: my copy is well-thumbed. Though I confess I read the section on religion infrequently, as this is not my main area of interest.

I am aware that it is close to ancient republican practice in many ways, and it looks as though it has been thoroughly researched: indeed I have noticed that some passages seem quite close to an authoritative book which I greatly admire, Finer's 'History of Government', and I've sometimes speculated that this book might have been on of those used in its drafting. Certainly the constitution is very much closer to authenticity than the original version.

Nonetheless, there are a number of things which I think are unhistorical about it, and a few years down the line I look forward to helping to tweak it in those parts. I would be interested to know, if indeed Vedius Germanicus explained his thinking to anyone at the time, why the status of senatus consulta is different here from that of the ancient republic, since you say (and I readily believe) it is not through lack of understanding of the ancient constitution.

Yes, I am a student, not exactly of Classics but of Ancient & Modern History, at the University of Oxford (U.K.). The Ancient History part of the course is taught by the Classics faculty, though, so I suppose I could be regarded as half a Classics student. :)

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] (In)Action & Responsibility
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:21:27 +0000 (GMT)

me-in-@disguise.co.uk (Sorry, I can't recall your name and you didn't sign your message) wrote:

> I think we could include inaction as a kind of action. This is one that surfaces
> occasionally on both sides of the 'right to die' debate: surely the inaction of not
> passing a pill to someone dying for lack of it counts legally as the action of
> murder? Ayn Rand would not agree. Then again, Ayn Rand was not an agreeable
> character!

I'm inclined to agree with you on this point, and I do think that people should be held responsible for their inactions as much as for their actions. I hadn't thought about the application to euthenasia, but I see it is very relevant. Of course, legally it can be rather harder to prove anything concerning inaction than concerning action, because one can fail to act without being aware of it, if you see what I mean.

This of course is closely related to the question of choice, which is for me a very important one: people often try to disclaim responsibility on the grounds that they have no choice in some matter, and this claim can be supported if one regards inaction as entirely negative, merely an absence of action. But inaction is, of course, a choice, and indeed not choosing is also a choice. Some also try to avoid responsibility for their choices by surrendering their choice to be made by someone else, but of course that doesn't work, because it is itself a choice.

Satre told a story to illustrate this sort of idea, about a former student of his who had to decide whether or not to abandon his sick mother to fight in the resistance. He came to Satre for advice, and Satre pointed out to him that if you go to someone for advice, you are effectively advising yourself, because you know what advice they will probably give you, and you then choose whether to ask for it or not. So, he said, this former student knew exactly what advice he would get from Satre, and that was why he had come to hear it. The advice was that the student must make his own choice.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Princeps Senatus
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:38:48 -0600 (CST)

Salve Quinte Fabi,

> Actually, I suggested the title for a deserving senator the first month I was
> Consul. Check the achieves. It was voted down.

Unfortunately, the Senate archives don't go back that far; all that I have
is the main list archives, which don't contain much information on this
nomination.

Tribune L. Sergius wrote (1/25/2000):
> Item seven is the first I've heard of a separate Website for the Senate. <br>
> I note that in Roma Antiqua, the title of "Princeps Senatus" (First in <br>
> the Senate) was given to the most respected senior senator. I don't think <br>
> that should be used for a webmaster in our own Senate. Probably <br>
> Germanicus or Palladius deserve the title and honors.

>From the little information here, it seems that there was some protest
against giving this title to a Senator with specific duties related to
a web site, and instead there was a movement to reserve it for the
"most respected senior senator" -- which is exactly what I'm trying to
do right now.

The next day, Consul M. Minucius Audens wrote:
> Further, for the reasons stated above, I believe that the "Princeps
> Senatus" should be, as Senator Ericius has mentioned, chosen under the
> old attributes of honor, dignity and accomplishment, and I would be most
> pleased to nominate any one of the above named three colleagues, or all
> of them, to a selection by the Senate for that singular honor.

Apparently, Senator Audens was also being considered for the position at that
time, but declined - which was a proper thing to do, as he was only a month
into his consulship, and had not yet established the reputation he has today.
That is no longer applicable, for his dignitas has grown tremendously in the
intervening years, and he is now the ideal candidate.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Action & Responsibility
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:00:28 +0000 (GMT)

C. Minucius Scaevola wrote:

> Surely, then, your own inaction in not committing every single second of
> your life to fighting for world peace makes you responsible for all the
> deaths that would not have occurred otherwise? In, say, fifty years of
> concerted effort, surely you would have saved at least one life, and
> very likely more. Shouldn't your inaction count legally as the action of
> murder?

Well, there are three issues here that I can see at first glance. One is whether inaction counts as action. The second is whether consequently responsibility can be assigned for the results of inaction. Thirdly, whether failing to prevent something carries the same degree of moral culpability as causing the thing to occur. You also raise the equivalent question of legal culpability, but I hope you will permit me simply to state that I don't consider the purpose of law to be to enforce morality, and therefore I'm content to let that particular issue lie outside my contribution to this discussion.

On the first issue, as I've made clear, I think that inaction is action, and choosing not to act is a choice, and choosing not to choose is the same as choosing not to act.

On the second issue, I have a less fully formed view, but I feel inclined to accept the implication of Prof. Chomsky's quotation (the one that started this discussion) that one is responsible for the predictable consequences of one's inaction. However, if actions can (and often do) have unpredictable consequences, certainly inactions must almost necessarily have a huge array of consequences which no one could reasonably be expected to foresee. Thus, for instance, I would not hold anyone responsible for failing to prevent the death of someone they didn't know was in danger of death. I would, however, hold them to some extent responsible for the death of someone they knew was likely to die if they did not act.

But how responsible should they be held? Well, this is the third issue. In the case of murder, which you raise, I would be inclined to say that there is a (reasonably) clear hierarchy of responsibility. The person most reponsible is the person who is or brings about the immediate medical cause of death, in most cases. But to determine how responsible someone is for the death of another person, I would suggest that one would assess two things: first, how easily could the person have prevented the death, and second, how far could the person be expected to know (or perhaps simply how far did the person know) the answer to the first part? Therefore in answer to your suggestion that one is responsible for every death that occurs in the world, I would say that this is not so. One is, however, to some extent responsible for any death which meets these two criteria, 1 - that one was able to prevent it, and 2 - that one knew one was able to prevent it. One is more responsible for a death which one could easily have prevented and which one knew one could easily have prevented than for a death which one knew about but could not prevent, or could have prevented but did not know that one could prevent.

To apply this to a few hypothetical cases: for the murder of a person I didn't know was being attacked but could have prevented, I am not responsible. For the death from illness of a person who I knew was dying of illness but whose death I did not have the medical competence to prevent, I am not responsible. For the execution of a prisoner on death row in the United States whose case I had read about, I am to a very slight degree responsible, because I was aware of it, and I could have prevented it; but the responsibility is only very slight, because I would have had to either mount a successful appeal, which would be extremely difficult and unlikely to succeed as I am not a lawyer, I live in the U.K., I cannot readily afford to travel to the States, and it would in any case probably be too short notice for an appeal, or else I could travel to the States (see above difficulties) and attempt to illegally free the prisoner from jail and help him or her escape to somewhere whence he or she could not be extradited. Assuming the prison to have reasonable security, this too I would find very difficult. Moreover, if I supported the death penalty (which I do not) and believed the person guilty, then I might be willing to accept that small amount of responsibility as the price for seeing the sentence carried out.

I shan't carry on with more examples, as I'm sure these are clear enough. I hope I haven't bored you.

> I suggest putting on heavy gloves before digging any further into this
> topic, and thorough disinfection afterwards. It smells to high heaven.

As you can see, my gloves are well strapped on, and I'm prepared to wade through as much muck as I need to to have this interesting and important debate.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

---------------------------------
Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: ELECTION MMDCCLV: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
From:	"Daniel" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:26:11 -0000

Salvete omnes.
I see that the position of Tribunus Plebis is not in the list. So the
Comitia Plebis is lacking too. Am I right ?
Respectfully
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@c...> wrote:
> Kal. November MMDCCLV
>
> Civibus Novae Romae M. Octavius Germanicus Consul S.P.D.
>
> I hereby announce the start of the political campaign season of
MMDCCLV.
> Citizens who wish to hold office in MMDCCLVI (2756) may declare
their
> candidacies, beginning now, by posting to the mailing lists
> nova-roma@y... or novaroma-announce@y...
> The deadline for declaring candidacy is 12.01 AM, Roman Time,
> Tuesday November 12th.
>
> Declarations of candidacy will be saved and made available at the
> following location for the duration of the campaign and election:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/election/2755/
>
> The following magistrates will be elected by the Comitia Centuriata:
>
> CENSOR - 1 position available.
>
> CONSUL - 2 positions available.
>
> PRAETOR - 2 positions available.
>
> Candidates for Censor, Consul, or Praetor must have previously
served
> six months as an elected magistrate or provincial governor, and must
> have been born on or before 1 January 1976 (for Praetor, 1 January
1978).
>
> The following magistrates will be elected by the Comitia Populi
Tributa:
>
> CURULE AEDILE - 2 positions available.
>
> QUAESTOR - 8 positions available.
>
> CURATOR ARANEI (webmaster) - 1 position available.
>
> CURATOR DIFFERIUM (publisher) - 1 position available.
>
> ROGATOR - 4 positions available.
>
> Candidates for any of these positions must have been a citizen of
Nova Roma
> for six full months before 1 January 2003, and must have been born
on or
> before 1 January 1982.
>
> The election will take place from the 17th to the 23rd of November.
>
> May fortune favor the deserving.
>
> Valete,
> M. Octavius Germanicus,
> Senior Consul.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
> Curator Araneum et Senator

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: ELECTION MMDCCLV: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:29:09 -0600 (CST)

Salve Luci Pompei,

> Salvete omnes.
> I see that the position of Tribunus Plebis is not in the list. So the
> Comitia Plebis is lacking too. Am I right ?

The Tribunes will convene the Comitia Plebis separately, to vote for
Tribune and Plebeian Aedile. I'm not legally empowered to do so myself.

I recommend that they use the same voting schedule as the other Comitia,
to keep management of the election simple.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Consul of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Curator Araneum et Senator

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Translators?
From:	"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:31:24 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@y...> wrote:
> Where can I find a list of Nova Roma's translators?

Salve,

Here I am.

You will find all here, in the magistrate page:
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/magistrates

MEMBERS OF THE DECURIA OF INTERPRETERS
French - Sextus Apollonius Scipio - scipio_apollonius@fr-novaroma.com
German - Tiberius Annaeus Otho - thomas.h@bluemail.ch
Portuguese - Lucius Arminius Faustus - lafaustus@yahoo.com.br
Spanish and Latin - Claudius Salix Davianus - davius_sanctex@terra.es
Italian - Aurelia Iulia Pulcra - GIULYQ@email.it
They have also many friends and volunteers helping.

The mail-list of Interpreters and uploaders:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma-decuria_interpreters/

The Law ruling it:
Lex Cornelia de Linguis Publicis
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-02-27-ii.html

Vale bene in pacem deorum,

L. Arminius Faustus

Interpreter, scriba tribuni plebis, scriba propraetoris Brasiliae
(http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html)

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Beauty!
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:29:17 -0000

Salve Apici,

Your welcome. I'm glad you enjoyed them.

Quintus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Pan144@a... wrote:
> Thank you very much for that website, > Quintus Lanius Paulinus.
The pictures
> are truly breathtaking and wonderful!
> Apicius Faunius Commisator
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Translators?
From:	"aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:16:37 -0000

Where can I find a list of Nova Roma's translators?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE END OF THE LUDI VICTORIA!
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:56:48 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

I HEREBY DECLARE THE END OF THE LUDI VICTORIA!

I also thank my wonderful Cohors Aedilis, they have become my
personal friends and I admire and love them very much!

I once again thank the Populus of Nova Roma for their enthusiasm and
interest. I thank each citizen who have participated in the events
organised by the Cohors now and before. I once again congratulate all
the winners! Please go and look at my website
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ to see their names and
their accomplishments.

I especially thank the four Domini Factionum and our fantastic
Factiones; Praesina, Russata, Veneta and Albata!

I thank all the Magistrati who have served as Judges, with all the
work that means! I especially thank Illustrus Antonius Gryllus
Graecus and Illustra Patricia Cassia! who have served as active
priests for my four Ludi!

Here is the Cohors Aedilis (CFQ)

Quaestor Illustrus Franciscus Apulus Caesar, Scriba Aedilis Concursus
Primus Honorable Caius Curius Saturninus, Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis
Primus Honorable Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, Scriba Aedilis Aranei
Honorable Emilia Curia Finnica, Scriba Aedilis Cursus Equorum
Honorable Gnaeus Salix Galaicus, Scriba Aedilis Historica Honorable
Gaia Fabia Livia, Scriba Aedilis Investigator Primus et Artificium
Honorable Caius Cornelius Ahenobarbus and Scriba Aedilis Concursus
Secunda Honorable Diana Apollonia Aventina

I am honored to work with You. My term isn't over and You are _not_
released yet.;-) But we have done most of the work now. Thank You
very much, my friends!

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:02:53 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>>
>Funny,
>Someone showed my post to Pompeia Cornelia, and she
>relayed word to me that my interpatation was EXACTLY
>what she was refering to in her last post.
>
It may well be what *she* was refering to. Just happens that her inference was paranoid.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Action & Responsibility
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:19:20 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
>
>Surely, then, your own inaction in not committing every single second of
>your life to fighting for world peace makes you responsible for all the
>deaths that would not have occurred otherwise? In, say, fifty years of
>concerted effort, surely you would have saved at least one life, and
>very likely more. Shouldn't your inaction count legally as the action of
>murder?
>
And of course there are neurotics, if not paranoiacs, who feel exactly that the world's horrors are their personal responsibility. I think it is a matter of what lies within one's authority. Can I make a difference? Politicians would say certainly when they want me to vote their way. So of course would some church people and urban clean-up campaigners. To an extent they are right. To the same extent, political campaigners are right but unless they go in for direct action, a thing which can excuse worse than it opposes, in a sense legitimising fascist behaviour, they can at best present a show of oppposition for to hope to persuade politicos their way.
This was in effect the context where Chomsky said it. It was in respect of the USA bleating (as alll states do and always have done) about the atrocities committed by its enemies it could do nothing about while keeping very quiet about equal atrocities committed by its friends that it could do something about. Marcus Aurelius says very much the same though in the personal context (or was it, given he may have been intending his homilies as How to be a Good Emperor?) "Why fly from another's evil you can do nothing about instead of flying from your own that you can do something about".

>patriotic thing to do; everyone knew the story of Pavlik Morozov
><http://www.cyberussr.com/rus/pavlik-play-e.html>, “The Hero of the
>Pioneers“, who turned in his own father. In my opinion, this kind of
>result is the eventually inevitable consequence of accepting the
>“responsibility for inaction“ idea.
>
Not in mine: that is an example of 'responsibility for inaction' being used to cover a thoroughly pernicious law. Most countries in fact do have laws of this sort, particularly some American states: if you go along with a crime that turns into murder, you may be charged with murder even though you did not wield the weapon. On this basis, women have been found guilty of rape in New York and in Germany. Up to a point, I approve of it but only up to a point. It merges into the legal opinion that 'obeying orders' is not a legitimate defence against war crimes. Maybe not but if the choice is (as spelt out in Cptn Corelli's Mandolin) "You shoot those Italians or I shoot you and then somebody else shoots them anyway", what would anyone but an ineffective Buddha do?
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] (In)Action & Responsibility
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:50:26 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----

actions. I hadn't thought about the application to euthenasia, but I see it is very relevant. Of course, legally it can be rather harder to prove
>
This has been in connection with British compromises accepting "Thou shalt not kill but needst not strive officiously to keep alive" which was originally part of a satirical poem. It is of course extremely relevent to doctors faced with this sort of choice about 'living vegetables'. (Then again I stopped being a vegetarian after reading Supernature about all the electrical responses veggies make when killed - 'Tis a crual world even for a carrot!)

not choosing is also a choice. Some also try to avoid responsibility for their choices by surrendering their choice to be made by someone else, but of course that doesn't work, because it is itself a choice.
>
This sort of thing can go into ethical melt-down of course. I tend to think of Aleister Crowley's "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". Firstly, he included the time factor: what thou Wilt is not necessarily what you want right now. For instance, I might will to be a graduate but I want to spend the time getting drunk: what I Will must make a commitment overriding what I want at any specific time. Something of the sort applies here (if maybe dishonestly), sign up to command services and you sign not your rights as much as your independence of action away and with it responsibility. The doctrine of 'War Crimes' (absurd: either war is about winning at all costs or war is in itself an ethical crime) has ameliorated that legally but not in practice. A common soldier may not be in a practical situation to make such a choice and a superior may be held guilty (has in fact) of atrocities he could not know about merely because he *should* have known.

So, he said, this former student knew exactly what advice he would get from Satre, and that was why he had come to hear it. The advice was that the student must make his own choice.
>
Sartre was quite capable of rationalising himself into and out of any situation he wanted to! Timeo Philosophos et Gallois fumantes!
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

"You are responsible for the predictable consequences of your own actions. You are not responsible for the predictable consequences of somebody else's actions." Prof. Noam Chomsky

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY TO RUN FOR CONSUL OF NOVA ROMA FOR THE
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:21:16 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

I stand here before You at the Rostra in my white toga candida as I
hereby declare that I will run for Consul for the year 2756 A.U.C.

Since Nova Roma means a lot to me, I would like to see it grow and
prosper. In light of this, I have decided to run for Consul.

As a Consul, I would like to establish a clearer set of rules for our
relations with the world outside Nova Roma. I would like to start a
campaign to get Nova Roma known to the world. To be able to do this
Nova Roma needs money. The money is out there, but we will have to
learn how to acquire it. For example, the EU has funds available to
support the basic cultures of Europe, the Roman culture being the
most important one of Europe.

I want to establish Nova Roma as a presence in many of the
macronational states. I envision houses and camps which would be
centers for Nova Roman activity throughout the world. Furthermore, I
have a well developed financial plan to accomplish these things,
which I intend to bring before the Senate.

We need to have a Census, though as our current Census law is
written, it will cost too much both in money and in contacts.
Therefore I would like to reform the Census law.

I would like to find a way to make a better connection between the
Senate and Populus, within the guidance of the Mos Maiorum. I want to
work for the Res Publica to change as the challenges change, holding
to my personal integrity while listening to the Populus.

This brings me to a promise I will make to you all: I will not leave
my post of my own free will before my term has ended. Furthermore, I
will work to find a way for our main list to be a place where free
speach is welcome, but also a place for respect and dignity.

This could also be stated more shortly, as in my Platform:

1. Establish Diplomatic standards
2. Promote NovaRoman presence in the macronational states
3. Revise the Census Law
4. Reform communication between the Senate and People

Please take a look at my Financial Plan for Nova Roma. You will find
a link at my Campaign Platform page.
................................................................................
Here is my election campaign site, please feel free to visit:

http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
==================================
If you'd like to write to me, please email

caeso_for_consul@fr-novaroma.com
(Please do not write to me at my regular Nova Roma address).

All emails will be answered in the order that they are received. I
thank you in advance for your patience.

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The Campaign-site of "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Consul 2756"
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Integrity, Accountability, Reform"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] CALL FOR CANDIDATES FOR PLEBEIAN MAGISTRACIES
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:26:31 -0300 (ART)

Elections of MMDCCLVI in the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Kal. Novembras MMDCCLV

Civibus Novae Romae Marcus Arminius Maior Tribunus
Plebis S.P.D.

I am hereby officially requesting interested cives to
declare themselves as candidates for the open
positions of Tribunus Plebis and Aedilis Plebeius.

Citizens who wish to hold office in MMDCCLVI (2756) in
the Comitia Plebis Tributa may declare their
candidacies, beginning now, by posting to the mailing
lists:
nova-roma@yahoogroups.com or
novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com

The deadline for declaring candidacy is 12.01 AM,
Roman Time,
Tuesday November 12th.

The following magistrates will be elected by the
Comitia Plebis Tributa:

TRIBUNUS PLEBIS - 5 positions available.

AEDILIS PLEBEIUS - 2 positions available.

Candidates for Tribunus Plebis must be of the Ordo
Plebeius, must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for
six full months before 01 January 2003, and must have
been born on or before 01 January 1978.

Candidates for Aedilis Plebeius must be of the Ordo
Plebeius, must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for
six full months before 01 January 2003, and must have
been born on or before 01 January 1982.

The election will take place from the 17th to the 23rd
of November.

Valete, et bonam Fortunam
Marcus Arminius Maior

--

Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Senator, Propraetor Brasiliae

_______________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! GeoCities
Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas fáceis de usar, espaço de sobra e acessórios.
http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A little Nova Roma History
From:	"deciusiunius" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 23:05:38 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Lucius Equitius" <vergil@s...> wrote:
> Ex offico Censor Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus Quiritiibus SPD

Salve Censor L. Equiti Cincinnate,

> Early in the history of NOVA ROMA I decided to make 'hard copies'
>of the website.
> This was not too difficult *then* and I was able to compile
>everything in a three ring binder.
> I brought the binder to the first Roman Days where Marcus and
>Patricia Cassii used it at their display. If you look at the picture
>of the Cassii at their tent you will see a light blue binder in the
>foreground in front of the T-shirts. I still have this binder.
>http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/rd1998.html
>
> One of the things that I have kept is a list of the Original Gens
that was then kept in chronological order.

It is great you did this! I always meant to save those pages and
didn't, then Vedius put everything in alphabetical order and the
chronological order was lost. Thank you for keeping this!

> Although I cannot prove it Gens Minucia/M Min Audens was proposed
>by me to the Senate, as was the procedure at that time*, when I was
>Senior Consul. This was confirmed by the Senate. Thus, M Minucius
>Audens was the first Plebian to be elevated to the Patrician order.

You are right that that Audens was the first to be raised to the
patrician order. However, looking over my records I find that Audens'
patrician status is even older. He was raised to Patrician status in
December of 1998, while you and I were in the last days of our terms
as praetores urbanii. Cassius and I as censors nominated Audens,
Cassius as consul presented the nomination to the senate. Audens sent
a letter to the senate Dec. 24, 1998 thanking us for our "unanimous
approval in raising my Gens Minucia to Patrician Level."

Unfortunately our record keeping was spoty in those days. Fortunately
I keep practically everything in the way of correspondence. :)

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Translators?
From:	"H Minucia Caesar" <theladysabine@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 23:35:06 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@y...> wrote:
> Where can I find a list of Nova Roma's translators?

Whatcha translatin'?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Declaration of Candidacy for Rogator
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 23:39:33 -0000

Salvete Quirites!

After careful consideration, I don the toga candida and declare my
intentions to run for Rogator for the year 2576 AUC. I pledge to
you, my fellow Nova Romans, these three things:

1) I will not leave my post of my own will
2) Unbiased adherence to Nova Roma's election laws
3) Do all that is in my power to ensure every vote is counted
and that every vote counts. There will not be any "Florida Fiascos"
on my watch.

I thank you for your time and humbly ask your consideration at the
polls.

Vale,

Quintus Cassius Calvus