Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A Little Nova Roma History
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:37:14 -0500 (EST)

Senator Cincinnatus;

My thanks for your mention of that piece of history, and the reminder of
your notebook. I remember it from our first meeting. It has always
been a matter of pride to me, that the Gens Minucia was raised to
Patrician Status based on service to NR, rather than the date on which
which I was brought into Nova Roma. The service, of course, compared to
yours at the time, was negligible, but I was then and still am very
appreciative of your encouragements of me at that time, and your
allowance and attention to my ideas as your Accensus, those years ago.

My thanks for the information, for the memories, and for the
encouragement that finally led me to follow you into the Consulship and
beyond.

Respectfully, and With Appreciation;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Action and Responsibility
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:41:09 -0500

Jamie writes

> I'm prepared to wade through as much muck as I need to

Please don't. We've had enough muck. You seem capable of stating your
views in a dignified fashion, and contributing to the information and
furtherance of this community, and I encourage you to continue doing so.

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re-Appointment of Praetorial Scriba and Call For Volunteers
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@novaroma.org>
Date:	Fri, 01 Nov 2002 18:58:24 -0600

T Labienus Fortunatus Praetor Quiritibus SPD

The resignation of my collega, Pompeia Cornelia, effectively ends the
tenure of her scribae. Therefore, I hereby appoint Renata Corva as my
scriba. Her duties shall remain the same as they were while she worked
for my collega; namely, she shall continue to moderate the main list.

Additionally, as my current work situation will not allow me to be as
attentive to the main list as I would like until the end of this month,
I wish to appoint an additional three scribae to share the burden with
Renata Corva and myself. Any civis wishing to perform this important
duty for the remainder of my term in office is invited to contact me at
labienus@texas.net .

Valete

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Welcome!!!
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 20:32:38 -0500 (EST)

Mistress Amamentia Moravia Aurelia;

I welcome you to Nova Roma, and to the Gens Moravia. This Gens and it's
Materfamilius has a significant history here in Nova Roma. You are most
fortunate in your Materfamilius as she is a clever, determined, and
caring individual, and had you requested such of me, I could not have
made a better recommendation for your Gens consideration. If I may be
of any assistance to you here in Nova Roma, I shall be pleased to assist
as I may.

To those other new citizens here in Nova Roma for whom I have been
negligent in providing a welcome, I greet you with great pleasure and
wish you all my very best here in Nova Roma.

Nova Roma is a unique place in which many people have gathered to
experience the ideas and ideals of Ancient Rome. We have experts here
on various aspects of the Roman World, Military, Religious, Political,
The Arts, Law, Latin, Land, The Virtues, and other areas of interest and
endeavor.

There are a variety of Sodalitas' which are organizations similar to
clubs or brotherhoods (sisterhoods) in which people gather together to
discuss elements of the Sodalitas and programs within the Sodalitas
which are undertaken with the consent of the membership.

There is a non-accredited Academia which offers education opportunities
in Nova Roma and in some of the areas of endeavor and interest within
Nova Roma. There is a College of Pontiffs which is deeply involved in
the pagan Religio Romano. There is a Macellum when items are sold. I
invite and urge you to read through the NR website, investigate the
offerings and members of Nova Roma and what they are doing and what they
are interested in. Get involved as you desire to do so and as you may.

Remember too, as you are involved in Nova Roma, that you are involved
with others, who like yourself, are interested in Roman Antiquity.
However, each person here has thier own view of the time that they have
to spend here, the degree of interest that they will find here, as well
as, the seriousness of thier individual views of together with those
views and beliefs of other Citizens. Be welcome here and have fun.
Tell a story, write a poem, enter a game or contest, but as you continue
here I beg that you will remember that there are others here as well, of
differing backgrounds and principles. Be cautious in your approach to
these others, until they are familiar to you, and have a care not to
cause discomfort or disappointment in others when you are expressing
yourself. As you become more involved, you will get to know better this
wide selection of Roman students , experts and visitors, and as you do
so, you will find more and more scope for your ideas, comments, and
discussions. So be well my new friends, enjoy yourself here, and be
welcome!!! If there is anything that I can do to make your stay here
more enjoyable, I will be glad to assist as I may!!!

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens;

Senator -- Nova Roma

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome!!!
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 01:53:05 -0000

Salve Armentia,

Amen to that! Sorry, sometimes my wife thinks the computer is my
other mistress and I got pulled away from Nova Roma part of the day.
You are indeed in a great gens with a materfamilias who really cares
about her people as Senator Audens says. I share his sentiments and
have a great time with us!

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Mistress Amamentia Moravia Aurelia;
>
> I welcome you to Nova Roma, and to the Gens Moravia. This Gens and
it's
> Materfamilius has a significant history here in Nova Roma. You are
most
> fortunate in your Materfamilius as she is a clever, determined, and
> caring individual, and had you requested such of me, I could not
have
> made a better recommendation for your Gens consideration. If I may
be
> of any assistance to you here in Nova Roma, I shall be pleased to
assist
> as I may.
>
> To those other new citizens here in Nova Roma for whom I have been
> negligent in providing a welcome, I greet you with great pleasure
and
> wish you all my very best here in Nova Roma.
>
> Nova Roma is a unique place in which many people have gathered to
> experience the ideas and ideals of Ancient Rome. We have experts
here
> on various aspects of the Roman World, Military, Religious,
Political,
> The Arts, Law, Latin, Land, The Virtues, and other areas of
interest and
> endeavor.
>
> There are a variety of Sodalitas' which are organizations similar to
> clubs or brotherhoods (sisterhoods) in which people gather together
to
> discuss elements of the Sodalitas and programs within the Sodalitas
> which are undertaken with the consent of the membership.
>
> There is a non-accredited Academia which offers education
opportunities
> in Nova Roma and in some of the areas of endeavor and interest
within
> Nova Roma. There is a College of Pontiffs which is deeply involved
in
> the pagan Religio Romano. There is a Macellum when items are
sold. I
> invite and urge you to read through the NR website, investigate the
> offerings and members of Nova Roma and what they are doing and what
they
> are interested in. Get involved as you desire to do so and as you
may.
>
> Remember too, as you are involved in Nova Roma, that you are
involved
> with others, who like yourself, are interested in Roman Antiquity.
> However, each person here has thier own view of the time that they
have
> to spend here, the degree of interest that they will find here, as
well
> as, the seriousness of thier individual views of together with those
> views and beliefs of other Citizens. Be welcome here and have fun.
> Tell a story, write a poem, enter a game or contest, but as you
continue
> here I beg that you will remember that there are others here as
well, of
> differing backgrounds and principles. Be cautious in your approach
to
> these others, until they are familiar to you, and have a care not to
> cause discomfort or disappointment in others when you are expressing
> yourself. As you become more involved, you will get to know better
this
> wide selection of Roman students , experts and visitors, and as you
do
> so, you will find more and more scope for your ideas, comments, and
> discussions. So be well my new friends, enjoy yourself here, and be
> welcome!!! If there is anything that I can do to make your stay
here
> more enjoyable, I will be glad to assist as I may!!!
>
> Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens;
>
> Senator -- Nova Roma
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Thanks for a Good time and a Lot of Fun!!!
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:05:44 -0500 (EST)

Senator and Aedile Qintillianus;

I should like to take this opportunity to thank you and tour Cohors, for
an excellent annual Program of Entertainment.. In my view, the Program
was very well planned, as well as staffed. You seem to have a most
enviable ability to draw good people to your banner!!

I have some small idea of difficulties in this area, and why I am aware
that not everything has gone totally your way last year, I applaud your
variety, and the appeal of your program to a wide selection on Nova Roma
Citizens.

I thank you specifically, as a participant in your program, as a Judge
in your program, and as one who has ben made aware of a program carried
out successfully to entertain the Citizens of Nova Roma!

I am pleased to notify you of my congratulations in this way, and to
extend to you my personal appreciation for an interesting and
stimilating set of activities. Your efforts will certainly be used as a
mark to come up to in the coming years.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Candidate for Tribunus Plebis
From:	"Daniel" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 03:29:48 -0000

Salvete omnes quirites novaromani.
I do hereby state my candidacy for the office of Tribunus Plebis.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinæ



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:08:17 -0800 (PST)

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
> To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >Funny,
> >Someone showed my post to Pompeia Cornelia, and she
> >relayed word to me that my interpatation was
> EXACTLY
> >what she was refering to in her last post.
> >
> It may well be what *she* was refering to. Just
> happens that her inference was paranoid.
> Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
>
Any Person who does not regard the state's power with
a degree of paranoia is a fool.

Pompeia Cornelia found herself faced with the worst
type of law, a nonobjective law that leaves it's
interpatation entierly up to the magistrate who
happens to be in power. Even worse the law contains no
statue of limitations, meaning that Pompeia Cornelia
is not only placing herself at the mercy of this years
magistrates but she also would be under the threat of
prosacution at the whim of any future magistrate who
may have a very different outlook on what is and isn't
Blasphemy than the magistrates serving now.

Also rember that Monotheists aren't the only ones
threatened by this vauge law. 20 years from now, some
future magistrates and pontifs could decide that my
calls for sacrafices were blasphemy and prosacute me.
Anyone who has spoken out about the Religio at any
time, is subject to charges if some one in power 20
years from now has a different view of the Religio
than the view that we accept today.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
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HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] CALL FOR CANDIDATES Q. FABIUS MAXIMUS STANDS FOR CONSUL
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:11:48 EST

Romans!

I am here before you today to stand for my second Consulship. Two years ago
with the death of my father, the injury to my sister, and the failure to
retain Rogators, I was unable to complete my tasks to my satisfaction and
that of my colleagues. I therefore ask that I be given the chance to
complete such.
We must fix the constitution once and for all so that Romans believe that
they have a stake in our success, or the gods forbid, our failure. Right now
it is a simple thing. If we are ever to succeed in our long term endeavors,
and I say long term, because it is going to just be that, Roman citizens must
accept the authority of the magistrates. Because of this the constitution
must be reworded.
Next we must make sure that no threats of law suits to the Senate (the BoD of
Nova Roma) or the treasury are viable. Again this means several changes to
the constitution, that should be carried out as soon as possible.
Last week we saw again that people wish to impress their religious views on
other people.
This must cease. Nova Roma is a tolerant nation. I will work closely with
the College of Pontiffs to insure that the constitution reflects this. Even
though I support healthily debate and espouse the use of rhetoric to
entertain and educate, it is very Roman, when someone says enough, it should
be enough.
The Roman Religio is one of the greatest reasons for this recreation of the
republic. It should be foremost in the hearts of all Romans to reestablish
the pact between we and the Gods. But those Romans who follow other paths to
religious fulfillment should not be mocked or harassed in public. He is
already protected in private. A man comes to his religion because it is a
matter of satisfying his faith. The state religion remains the Religio Roma,
but privately anyone can believe what they wish, and are guaranteed that
right under the Nova Roma constitution. And that right will be defended.
The Senate of Nova Roma is composed of the men and women who have sacrificed
much of their time and wealth for this republic. Yet most of the citizens do
not understand its function nor its mechanics. I plan to revive the ancient
practice of having the Senate meet twice a year under the gaze of the public,
so that the citizens may have a better appreciation
of what the Senate undergoes to maintain the high standards of this republic.
Finally the question of the Gens. Before the Senate spends time and debate
about how to do this, no one ever has asked the people, if indeed, they want
to go through such an upheaval.
That will be my first priority. You will speak, and we the Senate will
listen. Then and only then will we continue forward.
I will work with the Praetors in completing our civil and criminal law
programs, to revise the forum moderation and set up the courts. Most of this
work has been completed already, 9-11-01 interrupted it, but it is ready to
proceed. All I need is the mandate from you, the people, and it will be
done.
Thank you for listening
The Gods Preserve our Republic!

Salvete
Quintus Fabius Maximus
Proconsul
Former Praetor Urbanus
Senator
Pontiff
Former Curule Aedile
Quaestor
Paterfamilias
Roman reconstructionist.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] SERAPIO STANDS FOR QUAESTOR
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:14:03 -0000

Citizens of Nova Roma!

A few days ago the Senate of our Republic officially gave me the
opportunity of going in a new direction, which is the way of a most
Honorable office of Quaestor.

In reality, it is not a completely a new direction. Many of you
remember when several months ago, I presented my candidacy to replace
a Quaestor who resigned his citizenship. You nearly choose me but I
discovered I was breaking a law by running for that office at the age
of 20 (the minimum age is 21) and immediately withdrew the candidacy.

That Quaestor position would have been assigned to Plebeian Aedile,
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix. That is why before withdrawing my
candidacy I presented a list of engagements related to his office but
I withdrew my candidacy. However, given that you had nearly chosen me
as your Quaestor, I felt the obligation to Nova Romans of pursuing
those targets just the same.

Do you remember past Ludi Apollinares? Had not I promised to offer
you the Venationes, the combats between gladiators and wild animals?
I am sure you still remember them as they were very successful and
you will see them again during next Ludi for sure!
You also visited the website which was created by me for the Ludi
Apollinares which will still be used for next Ludi. You can find it
at:

http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/aediliscicatrix.html

I am collaborating with Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix for the
organization of the Ludi Plebei, with other Venationes and new games!

Well, that concerned the first part of my purposes as Quaestor before
withdrawing my candidacy. I also had a second purpose, which was more
related to the real historical role of Quaestors in ancient Rome.
They had to deal with financial matters. Our Constitution says that
the Quaestors "shall have the power and obligation to administer
those funds that shall be allocated to them ( to the magistrates they
are assigned ) by the Senate in its annual budget. As you know our
magistrates have no funds yet so our Quaestors (except those assigned
to the Consuls who deal with the budget) have no way of administering
them.
They would, however, definitely have the opportunity of dealing with
financial matters. Perhaps in the future Nova Roma will regularly
allocate funds to her magistrates and then our Quaestors will
administer them. Until that day they must work to create the right
conditions.

During this period I worked with several citizens within Provincia
Italia on an innovative project, that is an Aerarium and type of
Macellum on a provincial basis.We discussed much on this issue and
found solutions to a series of problems. We finally managed to create
the following new elements: In a nutshell, Provincia Italia will
start a series of commercial and financial activities. The bulk of
the incomes will be used to finance provincial projects such as
meetings, advertisements, etc. while a percentage will be sent to the
central Aerarium of Nova Roma. This could be considered as a trial
for our Republic. Should this model bare fruit, I am sure it will be
adopted by other provinces.

Now I believe our Quaestors should deal with these kinds of matters.
They should study and elaborate, thus enabling new ways of managing
the financial policies for Nova Roma.
We could and should have Quaestors dealing with a specific area of
finance. Here I mean taxes. Our consular Quaestors already have done
an amazing job on this issue and we all should thank them more than
we do. You probably remember that they discussed this matter with me
in this Forum. We all knew (and still know) that there is nothing
that cannot be improved and their aim, my aim and our aims are to
make tax payments easier, faster, and less expensive for everyone. I
am not speaking of paying fewer taxes since that is not a Quaestor's
task but rather of paying lower commission fees.

Citizens of Nova Roma, in ancient Rome Quaestors wore a toga with the
famous purple strip. It meant that their office is not easy to hold
at all. Our Republic needs people who are competent (like Sextus
Apollonius Scipio, whose candidacy for Quaestorship is fully
supported by me) and are determined to honor Her with their time,
efforts and loyalty.
I offer you my varied experience within and outside Nova Roma,
swearing to dedicate myself to the office of Quaestor with the same
fervor I have given to my Gens in Provincia Italia, Sodalitas
Egressus, the North Africa Project, the Nova Roma Land Project, the
Academia Thules, the Plebeian Aedile's staff as well as many other
areas of our Republic.

OPTIME OMNES VALETOTE IN PACE DEORVM

MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
*****Candidate for Quaestor*****
Legatvs Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs
(Italiae Evropaeqve Orientalis atqve Africae Septentrionalis)
Scriba Aedilis Plebis Ti.Apo.Cicatricis
Scriba Translationvm Primvs Academiae Thvles
Rector Academiae Italicae
----------------------------------------
>>AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html
>>PROVINCIA ITALIA
http://italia.novaroma.org
>>LVDI PLEBEI
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/plebei.html
>>GENS CONSTANTINIA
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/constantinia-en.html

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] SERAPIO - forQUAESTOR WEBSITE
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:22:57 -0000

AVETE CIVES REI PUBLICAE NOVAE ROMAE

You read my candidacy speech.
Now I humbly invite you to visit my website, where you can find more
information about myself and my activities in Nova Roma

http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/Serapio_for_Quaestor.html

Enjoy the visit!

OPTIME VALETE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
*****Candidate for Quaestor*****
Legatus Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs
Scriba Aedilis Plebis (Ti.Apo.Cicatrix)
Scriba Translationvm Primvs Academiae Thvles
Rector Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------
AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html
LVDI PLEBEI
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/plebei.html
PROVINCIA ITALIA
http://italia.novaroma.org
GENS CONSTANTINIA
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/constantinia-en.html

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY TO RUN FOR QUAESTOR FOR THE YEAR 2756 AUC
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:27:48 +0100

Citizens of Nova Roma,

I hereby humbly declare my candidacy for the position of Quaestor.
As Illustrious Manius Constantinius Serapio had so wisely said, this office is
very difficult to hold and needs dedication and determination. All of our
Quaestores had shown these two qualities, and even much more, and I would like
to solemnly thank them for the incredible work they have accomplished. They
have definitely deserved the honor to wear the white and purple toga.
Today, I would like to continue their efforts, there is still much to do. I
have a precise idea about what could be done. You will find my program at:

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Quaestorship/

I am very supportive to Illustrious Manius Constantinius Serapio in his bid for
Quaestorship, as this noble man has proven so much to Nova Roma.

Thank you for your attention.

Respectfully,

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] End of the Ludi Victoria
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:33:59 -0500

So ends the Ludi Victoria! I approach the altar of Victory, head
covered:

Victoria, noble goddess, because it is good and right to honor you, and
to make public our reverence for you, so have we offered you these
Games. We ask your blessing especially on those who have worked so hard
to make them a success; may their hard work and merit be known! We ask
also your special blessing upon our nation, that it may grow and
prosper, and upon those of our citizens who serve in the military
service of their macronations.

Victoria, if anything in these Games or in my offerings to you be
displeasing, I now offer this wine in atonement.

Illicet! So be it!

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] R: THE END OF THE LUDI VICTORIA!
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:58:39 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caeso Fabio Quintiliano S.P.D.

I want to thank my Illustrus Curule Aedile and great friend Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus. He have given me the possibility to make a wonderful job, to
learn more about the Magistracy, to be a politician and a good citizen in
Nova Roma.
Amice, thank you very much for your support and help in the bader moments of
the year, I'll not forgot the chance you have given me.
I'm very happy and proud to have worked with the man which have changed the
concept about the Magistracy and have organized the most exciting Ludi Nova
Roma have seen (IMHO).

Thank very much to all the members of the Cohors Aedilis, you all are
fantastic and I'm very proud to have worked togheter and followed a common
aim. I hope our dream, a Nova Roma closer to the daily life and able to
offer interesting services, could continue.

At the end I hope to continue the work of Quintilianus in the next year and
try to emulate him.
Thank you again, my most beutiful year in Nova Roma!!!

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus

Salvete Quirites!

I HEREBY DECLARE THE END OF THE LUDI VICTORIA!

I also thank my wonderful Cohors Aedilis, they have become my
personal friends and I admire and love them very much!

I once again thank the Populus of Nova Roma for their enthusiasm and
interest. I thank each citizen who have participated in the events
organised by the Cohors now and before. I once again congratulate all
the winners! Please go and look at my website
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ to see their names and
their accomplishments.

I especially thank the four Domini Factionum and our fantastic
Factiones; Praesina, Russata, Veneta and Albata!

I thank all the Magistrati who have served as Judges, with all the
work that means! I especially thank Illustrus Antonius Gryllus
Graecus and Illustra Patricia Cassia! who have served as active
priests for my four Ludi!

Here is the Cohors Aedilis (CFQ)

Quaestor Illustrus Franciscus Apulus Caesar, Scriba Aedilis Concursus
Primus Honorable Caius Curius Saturninus, Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis
Primus Honorable Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, Scriba Aedilis Aranei
Honorable Emilia Curia Finnica, Scriba Aedilis Cursus Equorum
Honorable Gnaeus Salix Galaicus, Scriba Aedilis Historica Honorable
Gaia Fabia Livia, Scriba Aedilis Investigator Primus et Artificium
Honorable Caius Cornelius Ahenobarbus and Scriba Aedilis Concursus
Secunda Honorable Diana Apollonia Aventina

I am honored to work with You. My term isn't over and You are _not_
released yet.;-) But we have done most of the work now. Thank You
very much, my friends!

--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:02:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Subject: Re: Blasphemy

-----Original Message-----
>From : "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>>
>Funny,
>Someone showed my post to Pompeia Cornelia, and she
>relayed word to me that my interpatation was EXACTLY
>what she was refering to in her last post.
>
It may well be what *she* was refering to. Just happens that her inference
was paranoid.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis


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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:19:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Subject: Re: Action & Responsibility

-----Original Message-----
>From : Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
>
>Surely, then, your own inaction in not committing every single second of
>your life to fighting for world peace makes you responsible for all the
>deaths that would not have occurred otherwise? In, say, fifty years of
>concerted effort, surely you would have saved at least one life, and
>very likely more. Shouldn't your inaction count legally as the action of
>murder?
>
And of course there are neurotics, if not paranoiacs, who feel exactly that
the world's horrors are their personal responsibility. I think it is a
matter of what lies within one's authority. Can I make a difference?
Politicians would say certainly when they want me to vote their way. So of
course would some church people and urban clean-up campaigners. To an extent
they are right. To the same extent, political campaigners are right but
unless they go in for direct action, a thing which can excuse worse than it
opposes, in a sense legitimising fascist behaviour, they can at best present
a show of oppposition for to hope to persuade politicos their way.
This was in effect the context where Chomsky said it. It was in respect of
the USA bleating (as alll states do and always have done) about the
atrocities committed by its enemies it could do nothing about while keeping
very quiet about equal atrocities committed by its friends that it could do
something about. Marcus Aurelius says very much the same though in the
personal context (or was it, given he may have been intending his homilies
as How to be a Good Emperor?) "Why fly from another's evil you can do
nothing about instead of flying from your own that you can do something
about".

>patriotic thing to do; everyone knew the story of Pavlik Morozov
><http://www.cyberussr.com/rus/pavlik-play-e.html>, "The Hero of the
>Pioneers", who turned in his own father. In my opinion, this kind of
>result is the eventually inevitable consequence of accepting the
>"responsibility for inaction" idea.
>
Not in mine: that is an example of 'responsibility for inaction' being used
to cover a thoroughly pernicious law. Most countries in fact do have laws of
this sort, particularly some American states: if you go along with a crime
that turns into murder, you may be charged with murder even though you did
not wield the weapon. On this basis, women have been found guilty of rape in
New York and in Germany. Up to a point, I approve of it but only up to a
point. It merges into the legal opinion that 'obeying orders' is not a
legitimate defence against war crimes. Maybe not but if the choice is (as
spelt out in Cptn Corelli's Mandolin) "You shoot those Italians or I shoot
you and then somebody else shoots them anyway", what would anyone but an
ineffective Buddha do?
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.



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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:50:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Subject: Re: (In)Action & Responsibility

-----Original Message-----

actions. I hadn't thought about the application to euthenasia, but I see it
is very relevant. Of course, legally it can be rather harder to prove
>
This has been in connection with British compromises accepting "Thou shalt
not kill but needst not strive officiously to keep alive" which was
originally part of a satirical poem. It is of course extremely relevent to
doctors faced with this sort of choice about 'living vegetables'. (Then
again I stopped being a vegetarian after reading Supernature about all the
electrical responses veggies make when killed - 'Tis a crual world even for
a carrot!)

not choosing is also a choice. Some also try to avoid responsibility for
their choices by surrendering their choice to be made by someone else, but
of course that doesn't work, because it is itself a choice.
>
This sort of thing can go into ethical melt-down of course. I tend to think
of Aleister Crowley's "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law".
Firstly, he included the time factor: what thou Wilt is not necessarily what
you want right now. For instance, I might will to be a graduate but I want
to spend the time getting drunk: what I Will must make a commitment
overriding what I want at any specific time. Something of the sort applies
here (if maybe dishonestly), sign up to command services and you sign not
your rights as much as your independence of action away and with it
responsibility. The doctrine of 'War Crimes' (absurd: either war is about
winning at all costs or war is in itself an ethical crime) has ameliorated
that legally but not in practice. A common soldier may not be in a practical
situation to make such a choice and a superior may be held guilty (has in
fact) of atrocities he could not know about merely because he *should* have
known.

So, he said, this former student knew exactly what advice he would get from
Satre, and that was why he had come to hear it. The advice was that the
student must make his own choice.
>
Sartre was quite capable of rationalising himself into and out of any
situation he wanted to! Timeo Philosophos et Gallois fumantes!
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

"You are responsible for the predictable consequences of your own actions.
You are not responsible for the predictable consequences of somebody else's
actions." Prof. Noam Chomsky



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Message: 25
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:21:16 +0100
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Subject: DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY TO RUN FOR CONSUL OF NOVA ROMA FOR THE
YEAR 2756 A.U.C.

Salvete Quirites!

I stand here before You at the Rostra in my white toga candida as I
hereby declare that I will run for Consul for the year 2756 A.U.C.

Since Nova Roma means a lot to me, I would like to see it grow and
prosper. In light of this, I have decided to run for Consul.

As a Consul, I would like to establish a clearer set of rules for our
relations with the world outside Nova Roma. I would like to start a
campaign to get Nova Roma known to the world. To be able to do this
Nova Roma needs money. The money is out there, but we will have to
learn how to acquire it. For example, the EU has funds available to
support the basic cultures of Europe, the Roman culture being the
most important one of Europe.

I want to establish Nova Roma as a presence in many of the
macronational states. I envision houses and camps which would be
centers for Nova Roman activity throughout the world. Furthermore, I
have a well developed financial plan to accomplish these things,
which I intend to bring before the Senate.

We need to have a Census, though as our current Census law is
written, it will cost too much both in money and in contacts.
Therefore I would like to reform the Census law.

I would like to find a way to make a better connection between the
Senate and Populus, within the guidance of the Mos Maiorum. I want to
work for the Res Publica to change as the challenges change, holding
to my personal integrity while listening to the Populus.

This brings me to a promise I will make to you all: I will not leave
my post of my own free will before my term has ended. Furthermore, I
will work to find a way for our main list to be a place where free
speach is welcome, but also a place for respect and dignity.

This could also be stated more shortly, as in my Platform:

1. Establish Diplomatic standards
2. Promote NovaRoman presence in the macronational states
3. Revise the Census Law
4. Reform communication between the Senate and People

Please take a look at my Financial Plan for Nova Roma. You will find
a link at my Campaign Platform page.
............................................................................
....
Here is my election campaign site, please feel free to visit:

http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
==================================
If you'd like to write to me, please email

caeso_for_consul@fr-novaroma.com
(Please do not write to me at my regular Nova Roma address).

All emails will be answered in the order that they are received. I
thank you in advance for your patience.


--
Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The Campaign-site of "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Consul 2756"
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Integrity, Accountability, Reform"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas and Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


________________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman Films, Teaching Tools Though Innacurate
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 15:26:34 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

Besides working for Nova Roma by computer I also feel it is important
to educate people within your family, cities or communities about
Rome and her possible revival. The way I do this is to invite a group
of 5 - 20 people over to my house, make some snacks (Roman if
possible) as well as drinks. We then watch a good Roman movie. This
week it is going to be Gladiator. I convinced my friends that it was
a tough world in the arena. As a program on Tv a few years ago said,
the rules are simple - You Lose - You die! Gladiators had many
problems - old age wasn't one of them! Ha, it was much harder to
become a Diego Maradonna or Wayne Gretsky then. I am sure that their
yearly activities were cherishing their lives every day; not worrying
about 10 million dollar vs 20 million dollar contracts. I have faith
with the general public. People are actually giving up NHL hockey
tonight to concentrate on Rome! Following the Roman evening, some
will be going to a Roman exhibit courtesy of the Italian Cultural
Ministry.

Now when taking my approach, you have to always explain the
historical accuracies or innacuracies of the films. There are many in
this film but I am cocentrating on the innacuracies of Roman Africa.
I found the following article, only a page long to read :

http://www.waac.org/amazigh/editorials/general/gladiator_false_history
.html
Scriba Praefecti

I am concentrating on N. Africa because I learned a lot about it as a
help work on the website under Manius Constantine Serapio's wing.
Please take a look at the article. I did not paste the text to our
lists in case of copywrite problems. I also made a print of the
article to read to my friends this evening. I hope some of you try
this approach. I know Gaius Lanius Falco does. It is not, of course
an academic or scholarly approach but I am sure I shall win more
converts among average non - academics than you would with a long
techinical university style lecture.

Vale bene

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: [Egressus] Resignation
From:	Joanne Shaver <merlinia@comcast.net>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 11:01:51 -0500

To Pompeia, From Merlinia
Well, you know what you're doing. I like you and trust your judgment.
Maybe now you'll have time to get to Roman Days again, and I'll bring a
bottle of Mead.
As for now, I'd suggest a glass of sherry, a piece of dark chocolate,
some good music, and a hot bath.
Love and luck to you!
-M.

jmath669642reng@webtv.net wrote:
>
> Beneficarius / Tribunus Militum Laticlavius Pompeia Cornelia Strabo.
>
> I arrived back in town this afternoon from a midweek school
> reenactment
> / history lesson, to find that a part of my world has been seriously
> affected.
>
> No, I will not ask you to return to Nova Roma, because I would ask
> no-one to put thier faith, honor or valued beliefs again into an area
> where it can be attacked, by foolish and irresponsible people. You
> well
> know my feelings in this regard from some time ago, so I will not
> burden
> you with them again. You best know your own heart and mind, and while
> I
> grieve for your decision, I honor it fully.
>
> In answer to your question regarding continuing with the Sodalitas
> Militarium, as you well know there is a facility for maintaining non-
> NR
> Citizens with the Militarium, and you are as welcome to register there
> as you have ever been in the Militarium as an NR Citizen. In regard
> to
> the honors that I have seen fit to set upon you, I do not give with
> one
> hand and take away with another. You, Mistress Strabo are Beneficarius
> (Benefiited One) to me. You have additionally earned your honor as
> Tribunus Militum Laticlavius, through your consistant and diligent
> work
> in the Militarium, and through your qualification as a Nova Roman
> Senator. Since that is where the honors are centered, that is where
> the
> honors will remain. Those honors are mine to assign and mine to
> remove
> for cause. However, I do assure you, that I see no cause that has,
> does
> or will persuade me to change my mind in that course of action.
>
> I am honored that you choose to label me friend, and I am disheartened
> and insulted by the words of those who have driven you to this point
> in
> your life. Cultural History can be a facinating topic, but as anyone
> with even a portion of thier faculties functioning well knows, even
> the
> most learned scholars cannot know truly what went on in the streets,
> temples and bazaars of the Roman Republic and Empire. What we know is
> what has passed down to us through fragments of writing and the
> results
> of selected archaelogical findings. Any archaeologist is taught in
> thier first years that unexplained unearthed phenomena are generally
> attributed to religious views or beliefs, so we can never really be
> sure
> of our detailed historical facts as these texts are being rewritten
> all
> the time. Religious beliefs and ideas among groups of people and
> among
> individuals alike are as varied as those groups and individuals
> themselves.
>
> Religion is a matter of personal belief. It is not a matter to be
> discussed in detail among those of a mixed company precisely for the
> reasons that have been given here. A person's religion is his or her
> own, and cannot, be discussed impersonnally, over any period of time
> without hurting someone's feelings. I am a Christain, and that is my
> business and no-one else's. I have in the past, do now, and
> foreseeably
> will in the future honor the gods of Rome, the Yahweh, of the Jewish
> Religion, Allah of the Islamic people, Bhudda, and the other myriad of
> religious beliefs found in this old world, together with the rituals
> found in the carrying out of those religions. Until those religions
> or
> cults begin to hurt me or mine, I give them all the honor and distance
> as they wish. However, I have little time for those who attack
> another's beliefs. For the past several days I have vigorously
> exercised the "delete" button when I have read "Religious Discussion"
> in
> any NR message title that pertained to such, because from experience I
> knew what would happen. It always does.
>
> Now, a valuable person's feelings are seriously hurt and she feels the
> necessity to depart Nova Roma. She knows what she is doing, and she
> has
> the intelligence to make her own decisions, and I for one do not hold
> mysef in such great esteem, as I believe that I can change her mind.
> Should she do so, I should certainly thank my God for his
> intersession,
> but otherwise I must most regretfully let my Friend, My Beneficarius,
> and my Valued Colleague go her own selected way.
>
> The very best that I can do, is to offer her a place in the Militarium
> which she has said that she loves, and hold firm to my pledge on my
> trust and friendship as I have stated it to all on this list. This I
> now do, with my invitation to Pompeia Cornelia Strabo to join the
> Militarium "Socci", and to know that as she wishes, she may retain
> those
> honors that have been placed at her door, all this with my heartfelt
> welcome, and extended helping hand.
>
> Respectfully, and With the Greatest of Regrets;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens -- Praefectus Castorum -- Sodalitas Militarium
> --
> Nova Roma
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> [Image] [Image]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Egressus-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Html error
From:	"mjk" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 09:41:39 -0700

Salvete omnes,

Just reposting html address. Won't open on my first posting.

http://www.amazighonline.com/News/Articles/Editorials/general/gladiator_false_history.html

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Scriba Praefecti

AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

PAX ROMANA




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Html error
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 17:09:43 -0000

Salvete Omnes!

Bloody @#!^%$#*&%#@! (censored)

For some reason the previous hmtl I posted still won't open. It works
if you will go to

nr_africa_septentrionalis@yahoogroups.com

Look at html error posting and it will open there. Sorry for the
inconvienence.

Quintus



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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date:	2 Nov 2002 19:56:05 -0000

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Nova-Roma group:

IDEALLY, should Nova Roma be open to
those of all religions, or should it be
a pagan-only organization? {Vote your
conscience. The voter identity will
remain unknown.

o Yes. Nova Roma should be open to all. The prohibitions against blasphemy and disrespect should be extended to all religions, without jeapordizing the Religio Romana as the official religion.
o Yes, it should be open to all. But there is no need for extending the prohibitions against blasphemy and disrespect. Leave things as they are. If monotheists cannot deal with it, they can leave.
o No. Nova Roma really should be for pagans only. There are other societies for all regardless of religion. This is the only one for Pagans.


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/surveys?id=10956828

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 20:21:46 -0000

Is it my imagination or do I hear a can of worms being opened?

Q. Cassius Calvus


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Nova-Roma@y... wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> Nova-Roma group:
>
> IDEALLY, should Nova Roma be open to
> those of all religions, or should it be
> a pagan-only organization? {Vote your
> conscience. The voter identity will
> remain unknown.



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:25:53 -0600

I don't see the point of including religions that are exclusive, intolerant, and would, and have, banned and outlawed the Gods. We can have respect for, and tolerance for, other religions, while keeping them at arm's length. Tolerance doesn't equal acceptance.







The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 1:56 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma



Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Nova-Roma group:

IDEALLY, should Nova Roma be open to
those of all religions, or should it be
a pagan-only organization? {Vote your
conscience. The voter identity will
remain unknown.

o Yes. Nova Roma should be open to all. The prohibitions against blasphemy and disrespect should be extended to all religions, without jeapordizing the Religio Romana as the official religion.
o Yes, it should be open to all. But there is no need for extending the prohibitions against blasphemy and disrespect. Leave things as they are. If monotheists cannot deal with it, they can leave.
o No. Nova Roma really should be for pagans only. There are other societies for all regardless of religion. This is the only one for Pagans.


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/surveys?id=10956828

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:58:30 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
>>
>Any Person who does not regard the state's power with
>a degree of paranoia is a fool.
>
Depends how much they think they control the State as their servant or regard it as their master out of control.

>magistrates but she also would be under the threat of
>prosacution at the whim of any future magistrate who
>may have a very different outlook on what is and isn't
>Blasphemy than the magistrates serving now.
>
I think there is a clear definition of Blasphemy as the religious equivalent to libel. Both may be debatable. That is why they expect to be debated in court.

Vubius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 21:11:25 -0000

I will not vote in this poll because it does not include a
statement I can support. First, let's look at the introduction...

> IDEALLY, should Nova Roma be open to
> those of all religions, or should it be
> a pagan-only organization? {Vote your
> conscience. The voter identity will
> remain unknown.

Now, if the poll actually *ASKED* the question in the introduction,
I'd simply say that Yes, Nova Roma should be open to those of all
religions. But that's not what it asks.

> o Yes. Nova Roma should be open to all. The prohibitions
> against blasphemy and disrespect should be extended to all
> religions, without jeapordizing the Religio Romana as the
> official religion.

I couldn't vote for that, because right now I'm working with other
interested parties to limit the language concerning blasphemy.
I can not imagine any way that we could reasonably attempt to
enforce a law concerning the possible blaspheming of any god
whose followers might someday join NR. On the other hand, I think
it's at least tractable to consider a law which gives the magistrates
a clear mandate to tell people when they're "going over the line"
in an acrimonious discussion.

So while I do favor acceptance of all faiths in NovaRoma, I could
not vote for the first choice.

> o Yes, it should be open to all. But there is no need for
> extending the prohibitions against blasphemy and disrespect.
> Leave things as they are. If monotheists cannot deal with it,
> they can leave.

Again, I could not select this choice because it rules out the
need to make a careful, nuanced change to the existing law.

> o No. Nova Roma really should be for pagans only. There are
> other societies for all regardless of religion. This is the
> only one for Pagans.

And obviously I would not vote for this choice.

I don't know who put this ill-considered poll together, but I'd
advise them to withdraw it and create a better one.

-- Gn. Equitius Marinus


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:11:43 -0800 (PST)

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >Any Person who does not regard the state's power
> with
> >a degree of paranoia is a fool.
> >
> Depends how much they think they control the State
> as their servant or regard it as their master out of
> control.

If you aren't a dictator and you think the state is
your servant, you are a fool.

The Powers of the state are always subject to being
abused.
>
> >magistrates but she also would be under the threat
> of
> >prosacution at the whim of any future magistrate
> who
> >may have a very different outlook on what is and
> isn't
> >Blasphemy than the magistrates serving now.
> >
> I think there is a clear definition of Blasphemy as
> the religious equivalent to libel. Both may be
> debatable. That is why they expect to be debated in
> court.
>
>From Websters.
Main Entry: blas·phe·my
Pronunciation: 'blas-f&-mE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -mies
Date: 13th century
1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack
of reverence for God b : the act of claiming the
attributes of deity
2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or
inviolable

I Don't see any mention of Libel. "lack of reverance"
and "irreverence" are terms that open to an abuse of
power by a magistrate, current or future.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:22:48 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date : 02 November 2002 20:25:53
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma

>I don't see the point of including religions that are exclusive, intolerant, and would, and have, banned and outlawed the Gods. We can have

It is not the religions: it is the people. That is what some people seem unable to recognise. It is exactly the same mentality that sees all Muslims as Taliban terrorists while even Iranian clerics were denouncing the Taliban. I don't trust Christians but nor do I think most of them responsible for or likely to repeat the atrocities committed in the Christian name, as often against other Christians as pagans. Even the current Catholic-Protestant sub-civil war and the Catholic-Orthodox Balkan wars are about national identity of which sectarianism is only one part. Many Orthodox priests are intensely nationalistic and support Slav fascism. Ironically they trace this to Constantine. That does not mean all Orthodox believers necessarily go 100% any more than all Calvinists are puritanical Amish.
What does sadden me is the failure of many Christians to realise that it works in reverse too: they would undoubtely have been persecuted just as much by ancient Christians whose beliefs and practices they would not even recognise as Christian. They are identifying with a name that was used in ways quite alien to them. In many cases, Christian violence was caused by sects declared heretical in their own day and put down by State Christian violence. The real issue is the fanaticism, not the particular religion it arose from. The last thing 'fundamentalists' ever are is fundamental to the spirit and original sense in context of their scriptures. They pick and choose at random from a corpus of self-contradictory texts ignorant of the relationship between them [or lack of any] seemingly oblivious to when one scriptural author is quoting earlier scripture. That is their problem. It is not necessarily a problem fundamental to the religion.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:30:19 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
>
>If you aren't a dictator and you think the state is
>your servant, you are a fool.
>
If you aren't a dictator and you expect the State to be your master your Fascist master it is.

>>
>From Websters.
>Main Entry: blasýpheýmy
>Pronunciation: 'blas-f&-mE
>Function: noun
>Inflected Form(s): plural -mies
>Date: 13th century
>1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack
>of reverence for God b : the act of claiming the
>attributes of deity
>2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or
>inviolable
>
>I Don't see any mention of Libel. “lack of reverance“
>and “irreverence“ are terms that open to an abuse of
>power by a magistrate, current or future.
>
I consider 'act of insulting or showing contempt' equivalent to 'act of insulting or showing contempt' to a human individual. The human may hit back literally. It is likely to be a long wait for a god to do so! 'Irreverence' might be a trickier matter since it is hard to define 'reverence'.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:31:49 -0800 (PST)

Salve,
I Agree with Gnaeus Equitius.
Whomever posted tis poll consider my lack of a vote as
a vote against all the proposals.

The imposilility of a blasphemy law protecting all
religions can be summed up easily.

To Some Muslams a claim that Jesus is God is
Blasphemy.
To Some Christians a denial that Jesus is God is
Blasphemy.

How do you reconcile these two outlooks?
By Banning any mention of Jesus?

An attempt to ban "Blasphemy" directed at any Religion
may be a feelgood choice, but it would also make
anything but shallow posts with no real content
illegal, and lessen freedom of speech rather than
promoting it.

--- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<equitius_marinus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I will not vote in this poll because it does not
> include a
> statement I can support. First, let's look at the
> introduction...
>
> > IDEALLY, should Nova Roma be open to
> > those of all religions, or should it be
> > a pagan-only organization? {Vote your
> > conscience. The voter identity will
> > remain unknown.
>
> Now, if the poll actually *ASKED* the question in
> the introduction,
> I'd simply say that Yes, Nova Roma should be open to
> those of all
> religions. But that's not what it asks.
>
> > o Yes. Nova Roma should be open to all. The
> prohibitions
> > against blasphemy and disrespect should be
> extended to all
> > religions, without jeapordizing the Religio Romana
> as the
> > official religion.
>
> I couldn't vote for that, because right now I'm
> working with other
> interested parties to limit the language concerning
> blasphemy.
> I can not imagine any way that we could reasonably
> attempt to
> enforce a law concerning the possible blaspheming of
> any god
> whose followers might someday join NR. On the other
> hand, I think
> it's at least tractable to consider a law which
> gives the magistrates
> a clear mandate to tell people when they're "going
> over the line"
> in an acrimonious discussion.
>
> So while I do favor acceptance of all faiths in
> NovaRoma, I could
> not vote for the first choice.
>
> > o Yes, it should be open to all. But there is
> no need for
> > extending the prohibitions against blasphemy and
> disrespect.
> > Leave things as they are. If monotheists cannot
> deal with it,
> > they can leave.
>
> Again, I could not select this choice because it
> rules out the
> need to make a careful, nuanced change to the
> existing law.
>
> > o No. Nova Roma really should be for pagans
> only. There are
> > other societies for all regardless of religion.
> This is the
> > only one for Pagans.
>
> And obviously I would not vote for this choice.
>
> I don't know who put this ill-considered poll
> together, but I'd
> advise them to withdraw it and create a better one.
>
> -- Gn. Equitius Marinus
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:38:35 -0800 (PST)

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
> >
> >If you aren't a dictator and you think the state is
> >your servant, you are a fool.
> >
> If you aren't a dictator and you expect the State to
> be your master your Fascist master it is.

"Facism" is a term that has lost any real meaning
since assorted Leftists have watered it down by using
it as a generalized attack against any who disagree
with them.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:45:32 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
>
>“Facism“ is a term that has lost any real meaning
>since assorted Leftists have watered it down by using
>it as a generalized attack against any who disagree
>with them.
>
In the sense of theory that the Citizen exists to be servant of the State, not the State to be servant of the Citizen. For instance, Charles de Gaulle's statement that he would "Sacrifice every Frenchman to preserve France". What was France then, if not Frenchmen?
There is of course a Fascism of the Left and it is amusing to see how easily the Kremlin Old Guard have identified with Russian nationalism and to hear them described as the 'old Right Wing' - which they are of course.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Fascism
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:21:04 -0000

Salvete omnes -

Fascism - A system of government characterized by dictatorship,
centralized control of private enterprise, repression of opposition
and extreme nationalism. (Lexical definition)

I agree the word has been greatly overused. I remember in our history
class in University in the early 70's our proff threatened to give
anyone a fat 'f' who used the word "fascist pig" around his class
because it showed a lack of knowledge of the real system.

As you all know the fasces was a bundle of rods with an axe
protruding carried by the magistrates of ancient Rome. Will Nova Roma
bar this parliamentary - like mace in future because of it name and
association?

Vale bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fascism
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:38:17 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
>
>As you all know the fasces was a bundle of rods with an axe
>protruding carried by the magistrates of ancient Rome. Will Nova Roma
>bar this parliamentary - like mace in future because of it name and
>association?
>
Well this is the origin of course. Since Rightist extremes tend to be nationistic they differ more than Leftist ones claiming adherence to international class basis. Strictly speaking only Mussolini's Fascisti bear the right to the name and he was imagining some sort of Roman Empire reborn. In theory, anyone could be a Fascist as long as they adhered to his ideas of building the New Italy, while the defining feature of Nazism is that Germans are *already* the Master Race and only need to clean their inferiors out. In that respect, the likes of Jean-Marie le Pen are more Fascist and the Russians and English more Nazi.
It is a fascinating execrcise in self-contradiction because the most obvious thing about a Master Race is its Mastery, therefore has no need to fear any 'inferiors'. Nazi posturing is as if human beings were to embark on a campaign of extermination against the threat of rats. It reveals its own sense of inferiority towards its victims and if there never was a conspiracy is sure to create one. Of course certain types of Communist (particularly Che Guevara) and American rhetoric (such as Joe MacCarthy) tend in the same direction of creating their own monsters to justify their fears and in the process disempowering themselves. In more modern times, so do certain types of racists and feminists.
Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Blasphemy
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:39:25 -0800 (PST)

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
> >
> >“Facism“ is a term that has lost any real meaning
> >since assorted Leftists have watered it down by
> using
> >it as a generalized attack against any who disagree
> >with them.
> >
> In the sense of theory that the Citizen exists to be
> servant of the State, not the State to be servant of
> the Citizen. For instance, Charles de Gaulle's
> statement that he would "Sacrifice every Frenchman
> to preserve France". What was France then, if not
> Frenchmen?

The State exists to protect the rights of the
citizens. Once you get into the "servant" mentality it
is only a matter of time until until one group of
citizens use thier "servant" to make themselves the
masters of the rest of the citizens.

> There is of course a Fascism of the Left and it is
> amusing to see how easily the Kremlin Old Guard have
> identified with Russian nationalism and to hear them
> described as the 'old Right Wing' - which they are
> of course.

"Fascism of the Left" is the only kind that has ever
existed. The Movement was founded by one of the
leaders of the Italian Socalist Party, Mussalini, who
was important enough in the party to be the editor of
the offical Socalist Party newspaper.

The hatred that exists between Facists and other
Socalists is typical. True Beleavers have allways
hated the Heretic more than the atheist.

It's amusing to watch leftists demanding that controls
be placed on private companies, which is the Economic
theory of the facist movement, and branding those who
oppose the impostion of economic facism as facists.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fascism
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:50:43 -0800 (PST)

--- Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> wrote:
> Salvete omnes -
>
> Fascism - A system of government characterized by
> dictatorship,
> centralized control of private enterprise,
> repression of opposition
> and extreme nationalism. (Lexical definition)
>
> I agree the word has been greatly overused. I
> remember in our history
> class in University in the early 70's our proff
> threatened to give
> anyone a fat 'f' who used the word "fascist pig"
> around his class
> because it showed a lack of knowledge of the real
> system.
>
> As you all know the fasces was a bundle of rods with
> an axe
> protruding carried by the magistrates of ancient
> Rome. Will Nova Roma
> bar this parliamentary - like mace in future because
> of it name and
> association?
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
I Hope we follow the lead of the USA Congress which
had Fasces displayed prior to the advent of the
"facist" movement, and which still retains them.

Of course there are some opponants of the United
States who consider the US Congress to be a "Facist"
organization. ;-)



=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Fascism
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:02:45 -0000

> >
> I Hope we follow the lead of the USA Congress which
> had Fasces displayed prior to the advent of the
> "facist" movement, and which still retains them.
>
> Of course there are some opponants of the United
> States who consider the US Congress to be a "Facist"
> organization. ;-)

Salve,

True L. Sicini Druse, but the necessary criteria of an actual
dictator and centralized control over private enterprise (except
taxes) don't seem to be there and congress does have divisions
between left and right thinking in terms of extreme nationalism.

Quintus
>
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
> (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
> Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
>
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Night All
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:26:33 -0000

Savete Gentlemen -

It was good to talk to you again. I'm off now to prepare dinner,
drinks and the Gladiator movie to educate some of my friends and see
if I can get them interested in Nova Roma.

Good night!

Quintus


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Blasphemy
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:34:31 -0000

Salve,


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> The hatred that exists between Facists and other
> Socalists is typical. True Beleavers have allways
> hated the Heretic more than the atheist.


Please forgive me my interruption. Fascist/Socialist are really just
two sides of the same coin of authoritarianism. The only real
difference between the two is that the Socialist will kill you, take
your cow in order that the government distribute the milk (usually
resulting in no milk), the Fascist will kill you and your cow and
then complain there is no milk. Perhaps that is a bit extreme an
example, but both sides view people as resources to be exploited.

Anyway back to the subject of Blasphemy. This is my own personal
opinion and everyone one knows what opinions are like... but here it
goes.

It would be impossible in Nova Roma to extend the crime to include
all religions for two reasons:

The first is a practical reason; one person's "blasphemy" can be
another person's sincerely held religious beliefs. The second is a
bit more legalistic in that Blasphemy as a civil crime can exist as a
civil crime if the act is against the official state religion. Nova
Roma's official state religion is the Religio, thusly the civil
charge of Blasphemy can only be applied to actions and words against
the Religio.

To my knowledge, and I have it on pretty solid word from our Pontifex
Maximus, no one in the history of Nova Roma has ever been charged
with blasphemy. This tells me that given human nature to date Nova
Roma's magistrates have done more than a decent job of balancing the
Constitutional demands of both religious tolerance and having a State
Religion. I agree with Drusus that in order to continue this
tradition that the charge of Blasphemy needs to be narrowly and
clearly defined, preferably through Constitutional Amendment rather
than Lex as a Lex can be changed more easily than a Constitutional
Amendment. For that matter so should the section of the
Constitution that deals with Censorial Nota's be rewritten to more
clearly define what constitutes what as currently the Censors can
issue a Nota based on subjective opinion of what defines "public
morality and honor." My idea of what constitutes an offense
against "public morality and honor" may greatly differ from someone
elses.

There should be a statute of limitations for not just blasphemy but
all civil crimes. After all who wants to be hauled up before some
future magistrate 20 years down the road for some "crime" long
forgotten?

With this I see I am straying from the subject into other areas and
will return you to the regularly scheduled program of the "silly
season" <G>

Vale,

Quintus Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ludi Plebeii - epigram contest
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:37:30 +0000 (GMT)

Salvete!!

During the Ludi Plebeii (November 4-17), organised by
both aediles plebis, an epigram contest will be held!


Show us your poetic skills and write an epigram!


To participate in this contest you have to write an
epigram, composed of two or four verses, with the
following scheme:

A: 13-15 syllables
B: 11-15 syllables
B must be shorter than A
An epigram with four verses should consist of ABAB

Some examples:

MARTIALIS:
“Aspicis incomptis illum, Deciane, capillis,
cuius et ipse times triste supercilium,
qui loquitur Curios adsertoresque Camillos?
Nolito fronti credere: nupsit heri.”

SAMUEL TAYLOR COLERIDGE:
“What is an epigram? A dwarfish whole;
Its body brevity, and wit its soul.”

PRESTON:
“No humorist laughs at his own wheeze:
A snuff-box has no right to sneeze.”

“The alienist is not a joke;
He finds you cracked and leaves you broke.”

HILAIRE BELLOC:
“Of old when folk lay sick and sorely tried,
The doctors gave them physic, and they died.”

“But here's a happier age; for now we know
Both how to make men sick and keep them so.
The Devil, having nothing else to do,
Went off to tempt My Lady Poltagrue.”

“My Lady, tempted by a private whim,
To his extreme annoyance, tempted him.
When I am dead, I hope it may be said:
His sins were scarlet, but his books were read.”


The jury of this contest:
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
(Pompeia Cornelia Strabo)
Manius Constantinus Serapio

Following categories will be used in judging:
Roman theme – 10 points
Content: humour, cleverness, … - 10 points
Scheme – 5 points
Language – 5 points

To participate, send an email (with your epigram and
Nova Roma name) to consulromanus@y..., with
“EPIGRAM” in the subject line. Last day to submit an
epigram is November 10th.

Participate in this contest! A wonderful prize will be
granted to the winner:

The winner of this contest will receive this nice book
(from Amazon):
“A Garden of Roman Verse” (J Paul Getty Museum Pubns);
1998; Hardcover; 80 pages


We hope to see many people participating in this
wonderful contest!!

Valete bene


=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
----------
Aedilis Plebis
Coryphaeus Sodalitatis Musarum
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
***HORUM OMNIUM FORTISSIME SUNT BELGAE***

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi Plebeii - epigram contest
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:41:13 -0000

Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
<consulromanus@y...> wrote:
> Salvete!!
>
> During the Ludi Plebeii (November 4-17), organised by
> both aediles plebis, an epigram contest will be held!
>
>
> Show us your poetic skills and write an epigram!

A quick question, since this is the Ludi Plebeii, is this contest
open to Patricians?

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus