Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:12:12 EST

In a message dated 11/6/2002 3:06:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
alexious@earthlink.net writes:

> I created this poll because I am torn as to what would be the best course of
> action. So the decision of this poll will be included in the draft of the
> upcoming law I intend to promulgate it. Please take 2 minutes to sign into
> Yahoogroups and state your preference. I am certainly going to listen and
> follow through with the response.

It is my opinion that this poll lacks enough options. I will not vote in the
poll as I see it as incomplete.

G. Modius Athanasius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Nerva's post #4549
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:17:25 -0800 (PST)

We have public morality here? (Offense Alert) I think you should go back a week and read 4,869 posts about how much everyone hates everyone else' god or gods or sacred trees. We go daft over everthing here.
And now I will wait for my trial and punishment...as soon as we get those trial laws going.
I can save the time by just asking to be moderated, resign, argue amoungst myself for a few posts, then go off spitting mad. Finally, I will make amends with myself and return where I will find 30 people tell me how rude I was and 30 people defend me and opt not to pay taxes for the next 6 years.......ahhhhh, I feel much better.
Someone let me know when we start talking about Roman things again.
MBAIn a message dated 11/6/02 11:40:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
equitius_marinus@yahoo.com writes:

> I charge Gaius Cassius Nerva with an offense against the public
> morality, for the subject line in his post 4549 to this Nova-Roma
> mailing list. He has, of his own free will, chosen to post words
> which are disrespectful in their deportment of a former magistrate and
> well known public person

You willing to put up money for your sponso?

Q. Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:17:32 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

Please stop and think a little! OK, there may be duplicate
citizenships. But the question is; how many? Is it really worth all
this activity?

If this really is a problem then I would like to say the following:

>In recent posts we have been discussing
>ways to prevent duplicate citizenships.
>What I would like to know is what sort
>of check would you prefer? (Poll will
>be open for 10 days)
>
> o The implementation of the $3.00 application fee.

This will stop Europeans from joining easily. It is hard to send the
taxes already and this will mean that a new European citizen must be
very convinced to try to pay this fee. I am dead against it!

> o Banning all freebie type email addresses (Yahoo, Hotmail,
>Swrivemail, Lycos, etc)

I have seen enough arguments why this will close the door to many
citizens, among them many young ones. I am against this too.

> o Phone contact (paid for by the central treasury)

If this really is a problem, this is the only solution that not will
hurt Nova Roma. The two above systems will probably hurt us, more or
less! I support Honorable G. Modius Athanasius proposal that this
should be handled by the Governors and their legates. This would
probably be possible to organise through the personal networks that
all the governor and his legati in the specific country has. I am
sure that even this system will mean some problems, but I feel it may
have some chance of fixing the problem "without destoying the eggs".
I don't think that this should be paid by the treasury. I am sure
that the Governor will pay at this stage. When citizens start flowing
in I am sure that a lot of our routines must change.

> o None of these, the system works well enough now.

The copy of the ID system is also "less bad" then the first two
systems, but I think it will mean that I lot of people without easy
access to a copy-machine will skip becoming a citizen.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The Campaign-site of "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Consul 2756"
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Integrity, Accountability, Reform"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The End of the Debate
From:	"g_agorius_taurinus" <g_agorius_taurinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:32:57 -0000

I have nothing more to say regarding the old argument; but I would
like to state that I do not believe that censoring people's letters
is a good way of ending a troublesome debate. In fact, I strongly
condemn the actions of any moderator who would stop and repress the
words of another, in the hopes of "ending" a debate, no matter what.
The loss of such a precious freedom does not justify the ends. I am
very disappointed with this list and this organization for being a
party to such limitations of freedom.

Having said that, I will be happy to continue the old debate at the
Backalley list, or in private.

Galus Agorius Taurinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Pending member/fees
From:	"Shaunne" <cianistarle@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:38:33 -0000

Salve!
I wasnt going to begin posting until I had my citizenship approved,
but since I am a pending member I wanted to give an opinion on the
membership fees.
I would have no problem paying to be a member, and I would pay an
even more substantial amount than $3, but there is no way I would
have applied if one of the first things I saw was a membership fee. I
would have just assumed it was a way for someone to make money and
moved on. Why not have a free membership for a period of time (weeks
or months) and then charge for continued membership? I dont know if
this would solve the problem you are trying to address, but thought
i'd post it anyway.
Vale,
Livia Julia

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's post #4549
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 00:40:18 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/6/02 11:40:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> equitius_marinus@y... writes:
>
>
> > I charge Gaius Cassius Nerva with an offense against the public
> > morality, for the subject line in his post 4549 to this Nova-Roma
> > mailing list. He has, of his own free will, chosen to post words
> > which are disrespectful in their deportment of a former
magistrate and
> > well known public person
>
> You willing to put up money for your sponso?

Yes. If I can afford it. If that's what the magistrates require.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:46:32 -0800

Ave, Senator,

I have thought about this. Since I was notified about this by our Tribune (who would not act). So, we do have duplicate citizenships. I do not know how many, I would like Tribune Gn. Salix to post on the ML regarding the scope and nature of the problem but he has remained very silent throughout this entire discussion.

Since we do have a problem we must deal with it. We all have a duty to protect the peoples voice from abuses such as Voter Fraud. We all should have just one vote. The way the system is set up now is abuseable and it has been abused, we must make reforms to prevent further abuse.

The poll is designed to help me gauge the will of the People. I will go by the results of the poll in the continued drafting of the legislation. The poll will close in 10 days time, and it has been amended to include the suggestions of my colleague.

Oh and incase you missed it there as a post regarding paypal. An announcement that stated, and let me quote from the email of Julilla Sempronia (message 4545 of the archeives):

Today I received my monthly PayPal newsletter, and in it I found a
piece of news which will certainly facilitate receiving funds from
cives around our international "empire."

PayPal is now set up to send or receive funds in Pounds Sterling,
Euros, or U.S. Dollars. Here's a demo of how it works:

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/dmo/demo_mc_1-outside

Now this news pleases me for an additional reason: I've been on a
mission for some time to have a complete dining set (and I have two
very fine silver cochlear spoons), and some of the finest tabernae of
Roman-replications are in Germania. This news makes it much easier to
buy that terra sigillata pottery I have been coveting from the Forum
Traiani!

This limits the arguement you posted about hindering the recruitment from Europe or for that matter worldwide, IMHO.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma

Salvete Quirites!

Please stop and think a little! OK, there may be duplicate
citizenships. But the question is; how many? Is it really worth all
this activity?

If this really is a problem then I would like to say the following:

>In recent posts we have been discussing
>ways to prevent duplicate citizenships.
>What I would like to know is what sort
>of check would you prefer? (Poll will
>be open for 10 days)
>
> o The implementation of the $3.00 application fee.

This will stop Europeans from joining easily. It is hard to send the
taxes already and this will mean that a new European citizen must be
very convinced to try to pay this fee. I am dead against it!

> o Banning all freebie type email addresses (Yahoo, Hotmail,
>Swrivemail, Lycos, etc)

I have seen enough arguments why this will close the door to many
citizens, among them many young ones. I am against this too.

> o Phone contact (paid for by the central treasury)

If this really is a problem, this is the only solution that not will
hurt Nova Roma. The two above systems will probably hurt us, more or
less! I support Honorable G. Modius Athanasius proposal that this
should be handled by the Governors and their legates. This would
probably be possible to organise through the personal networks that
all the governor and his legati in the specific country has. I am
sure that even this system will mean some problems, but I feel it may
have some chance of fixing the problem "without destoying the eggs".
I don't think that this should be paid by the treasury. I am sure
that the Governor will pay at this stage. When citizens start flowing
in I am sure that a lot of our routines must change.

> o None of these, the system works well enough now.

The copy of the ID system is also "less bad" then the first two
systems, but I think it will mean that I lot of people without easy
access to a copy-machine will skip becoming a citizen.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The Campaign-site of "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Consul 2756"
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Integrity, Accountability, Reform"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] False citizens - keep it real people!
From:	"M. Flavius Aurelius" <marcus.flavius@bigpond.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:51:11 +1100

Fellow citizens,

I have recently fallen behind in reading this list, and so am usually a day or three behind the current debates. And so I have not had a say on this issue as it developed, but I request that the Censors hold their fire for a moment and avoid taking actions that will lock many potential citizens - as outlined by some other people already.

I believe an alternative to all this paranoia about false citizens and the rest is simply to have membership or citizenship granted on being 'sponsored' by a patron who is already a citizen. Then, a genuine NR citizen knows that the applicant is a genuine applicant.

While this system is open to abuse, all systems are open to abuse.

In Australia, even copying a licence, birth certifcate or any form of ID is illegal. Sending copies via email would breach several laws in the one go. And I certainly would not send something that senstive (even if it WAS legal) to someone I have not met.

Slow down people, don't rush to a rash decision based on a small amount of electoral fraud. How many false citizens are there? Has anyone checked? Or is this problem imaginary/potential?

Even real world electoral systems allow for a fraud-error rate of 1-2%. If ours is a lot different, then maybe we need systems. But bad systems to solve one problem will only create more problems. If we're going to fix anything, fix it, don't break it in a new way.

Marcus Flavius Aurelius
Durovernium, Australia Orientalis Superior
marcus.flavius@bigpond.com
ICQ: 4895187

Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's post #4549
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@novaroma.org>
Date:	Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:13:16 -0600

Salvete Gnaee Equiti omnesque

> My charge that he has offended against public morality stands,
> and I expect redress.

Very well. It appears that I might preside over a trial this year after
all. If you really wish to pursue this, please submit a petition for
action to me at labienus @ texas.net (remove the spaces, which are
included in case you are reading the list from the Yahoo site). The
petition should include a statement of the reason for your suit on the
part of Nova Roma; the specific basis for your complaint in law, common
sense, and/or legal precedent; and the amount of the fine you wish to
pursue.

(It may seem that you have already laid out your case here on the list.
However, I would prefer to have all of the forms followed, so that we
can properly place all of the proceedings in the public record.)

Be aware that you will be required to put forth a sponsio equal to the
fine you request prior to the start of the trial, and that you will
forfeit this sum if you lose the case. Should you win, C Cassius will
be required to remit the fine to the Nova Roman treasury, as you are
acting on behalf of the public interest. I reserve the right to alter
the fine if I deem it to be too high.

Within 72 hours of receiving the aforementioned petition, I will
determine whether or not your suit has any merit. If I do find that the
case should go to trial, I will then issue an edictum setting out the
rules by which the trial shall operate. Since it is so close to the end
of my tenure in office, and since my edicta will not necessarily be
enforced by my successors, I will hold this trial before the Comitia
Populi Tributa unless you specifically request that I hold a jury trial.

At this time, I intend to preside over the trial. However, as I have
already stated an opinion contrary to your own on this matter, I am
willing to recuse myself and appoint a iudex who is acceptable to both
you and C Cassius to act in my place if you so request. C Cassius, too,
will have the option to request such a iudex.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus Praetor
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:39:19 EST

In a message dated 11/6/02 6:18:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
labienus@novaroma.org writes:

> Should you win, C Cassius will
> be required to remit the fine to the Nova Roman treasury, as you are
> acting on behalf of the public interest. I reserve the right to alter
> the fine if I deem it to be too high.
>
>

I would like to act as Cassius advocate, if Cassius has no objection.

Q. Fabius Maximus.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:41:47 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/6/02 6:18:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> labienus@n... writes:
>
>
> > Should you win, C Cassius will
> > be required to remit the fine to the Nova Roman treasury, as you
are
> > acting on behalf of the public interest. I reserve the right to
alter
> > the fine if I deem it to be too high.
> >
> >
>
> I would like to act as Cassius advocate, if Cassius has no
objection.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus.

Salve,

If Cassius Nerva loses, I will pay his fine.

Vale

Q. Cassius Calvus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:40:30 -0800

I would like to contribute and pay part of his fine if he is found guilty as well.

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:41 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/6/02 6:18:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> labienus@n... writes:
>
>
> > Should you win, C Cassius will
> > be required to remit the fine to the Nova Roman treasury, as you
are
> > acting on behalf of the public interest. I reserve the right to
alter
> > the fine if I deem it to be too high.
> >
> >
>
> I would like to act as Cassius advocate, if Cassius has no
objection.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus.

Salve,

If Cassius Nerva loses, I will pay his fine.

Vale

Q. Cassius Calvus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A message guaranteed to offend noone
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:52:44 -0000

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:52:22 -0000

Salve,

Halveses?

Vale

Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> I would like to contribute and pay part of his fine if he is found
guilty as well.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: quintuscassiuscalvus
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:41 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/6/02 6:18:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > labienus@n... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Should you win, C Cassius will
> > > be required to remit the fine to the Nova Roman treasury, as
you
> are
> > > acting on behalf of the public interest. I reserve the right
to
> alter
> > > the fine if I deem it to be too high.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I would like to act as Cassius advocate, if Cassius has no
> objection.
> >
> > Q. Fabius Maximus.
>
> Salve,
>
> If Cassius Nerva loses, I will pay his fine.
>
> Vale
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:51:01 -0800

Ave,

Sure, halves sound good. What a travesty. Though...man I am so glad that Juvienl and Plautius are dead they would be next on trial!

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:52 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial

Salve,

Halveses?

Vale

Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> I would like to contribute and pay part of his fine if he is found
guilty as well.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: quintuscassiuscalvus
> To: Nova-Roma@y...
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:41 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/6/02 6:18:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > labienus@n... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Should you win, C Cassius will
> > > be required to remit the fine to the Nova Roman treasury, as
you
> are
> > > acting on behalf of the public interest. I reserve the right
to
> alter
> > > the fine if I deem it to be too high.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I would like to act as Cassius advocate, if Cassius has no
> objection.
> >
> > Q. Fabius Maximus.
>
> Salve,
>
> If Cassius Nerva loses, I will pay his fine.
>
> Vale
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Coinage
From:	"M. Flavius Aurelius" <marcus.flavius@bigpond.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:02:25 +1100

Will the person who controls the coinage please email me direct?

Thankyou

Marcus Flavius Aurelius
Durovernium, Australia Orientalis Superior
marcus.flavius@bigpond.com
ICQ: 4895187

Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 03:06:56 -0000

Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Sure, halves sound good. What a travesty. Though...man I am so
>glad that Juvienl and Plautius are dead they would be next on trial!

No doubt. I think, Plautus would have felt right at home as a writer
for Married with Children. His play Comedy of Asses" reads like a a
script for a Married With Children episode.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Ludi Plebeii - Quiz 3
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:26:34 -0500

Salvete!

QUIZ

Who knows most on Ancient Rome?

Here are today's questions:

***************

1. Ruling from 361 to 363 CE, this emperor initiated a ANS Julian
pagan revival in the empire after Christianity had
already been accepted. Who was he?

2. The conflict over which town sparked of the First ANS Messana
Punic War?

3. How do you write 1000 in Roman numerals? ANS. M

4. How do you write 151 in Roman numerals? ANS CLI

5. The first emperor to embrace Christianity, he moved
the capital of the empire from Rome to what is today
known as Istanbul. In 313, he signed the Edict of ANS Constantine
Milan putting an end to Christian persecution. Who was
he?

Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 03:43:00 -0000

L. Cornelius Sulla:

> What a travesty.

Pardon me, honored consul, but weren't you the same person who
last week decried the absence of any kind of trial system in
our micronation?

I would appreciate an explanation of your statement.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nerva's Trial
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:56:04 -0800 (PST)

I also volunteer to pay a portion of the fine, if
Nerva loses his trial.

---
Renata Corva

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:54:39 -0800

Ave,

I would be honored to respond.

I think a trial system is definitely needed. I have absolutely no problem in that. However, as you conveniently left out of my statement this is a total farce. I certainly hope someone will post some of the spicy statements that Juvenal and Plautius have written.

We are not the recreation of Victorian society. We are supposed to be Rome. Rome was open with sexuality. Were you not here during the discussion about prostitution? Have you not seen pictures on the wall of Pompeii. Have you not read about all the phallic symbols on the streets of ancient Rome.

I say again...this is a travesty. If Juvenal and Plautius were alive today they would be on trial immediately after Gaius Cassius Nerva. And then whats next? This is a very slippery slope, IMHO.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 7:43 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial

L. Cornelius Sulla:

> What a travesty.

Pardon me, honored consul, but weren't you the same person who
last week decried the absence of any kind of trial system in
our micronation?

I would appreciate an explanation of your statement.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's post #4549
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 04:02:45 -0000

Salve, A. Silvanius Virbius Epulone,

> I think that the most important part of this action , if it is true,
> is was the commentary wrirtten on an official Nova Roma site?

It was posted in this very mailing list, which is recognized as
a forum of Nova Roma, and thus is an official site, yes.

> If it wasn't then it's none of your business.

I completely agree. Had the action not been a public one, then
it is entirely private, and none of my or any other citizen's
concern.

> Sorry if I sound a little
> testy but it seems to me that a lot of people here are real quick to
> take actions of punishment towards people before they are even
> accussed officially of anything.

I have seen much the same. This is why I brought a charge, in
public, and will let the sworn and elected magistrate decide what
punishment, if any, is appropriate.

> Last week a weak Governor was
> unbelievably quick in banishing a new comer to the list.

In fact, that same propraetor is the one I've charged with this
current offense. He seems quick to condemn others, while taking
liberties himself.

> That was wrong.

I agree. I was pleased that the senior consul quickly interposed
his veto against that action.

> Wheres the public morality there?

In the senior consul's right action.

> We are told that the list is
> being closely moderated due to uncivility. We are affraid that new
> citizens are going to be chased away by hostility. Yet a certain few
> feel that they should be ever viligant towrds "acts of morality".

Only public morality. I make that clear distinction, as does our
constitution.

> This latest emergency is nort even part of this site or property yey
> you want to "get him".

I think you are mistaken. The offense occured here. My purpose
in pursuing this is a matter of taking our micronation seriously.

> This sounds more and more like the Nation that
> I know live in and his attorney general.

If you refer to John Ashcroft, he is an unelected official who
attempts to aggrandize himself. I am asking elected officials to
make a decision, and I will honor whatever decision is made.

> I read your campaign platform

If you wish to engage me in a campaign debate, I think we would
be better to do it in separate posts.

> Now go ahead and rip away.

Hardly. You have your vision of our micronation, I have mine.
I think they are closer than you may believe.

-- Marinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 04:22:47 -0000

L. Cornelius Sulla writes:

> I would be honored to respond.

Thank you. I have always appreciated your views on matters.

> I think a trial system is definitely needed. I have absolutely no
> problem in that. However, as you conveniently left out of my
> statement this is a total farce. I certainly hope someone will
> post some of the spicy statements that Juvenal and Plautius have
> written.

We seem to have a different view of the meaning of "public morality"
consul. I've no problem with general sexual humor, nor with
comical antics. But when a person who is widely recognized as
representative of Nova Roma is publically mocked, when that person
is a former magistrate and Senator, and a member of the patrician
order as well, then I see our social compact placed at risk.

I will admit dismay that you, as paterfamilias of gens Cornelia,
are taking the view that you are taking. But you are your own
man, and have been here a very long time. Your history speaks
for itself here.

> We are not the recreation of Victorian society.

Indeed, we are not. We are, I understand, a reconstruction of
Roman society from the late Republic, brought forward into this
28th century a.u.c. In the late Republic there were many famous
and noble Romans who viewed the matter of public morality in much
the same light that I do. Indeed consul, your own namesake, while
quite the party animal in private, was a staunch and unwavering
protector of the public morality.

> We are supposed to be Rome.

Indeed.

> Rome was open with sexuality.

I'm fully aware of that. *I* am open with sexuality in my
private life. That is not the issue here. I am not looking
at a matter of sexual morality, I am looking at an action which
challenges our social compact, and which undermines the strength
of our republic's dignity.

> Were you not here during the discussion about prostitution?

That discussion never touched on a specific person so clearly
identifiable with this micronation as Pompeia Cornelia Strabo.

> Have you not seen pictures on the wall of Pompeii.

I have.

> Have you not read about all the phallic symbols on the streets
> of ancient Rome.

The herms? Yes.

> I say again...this is a travesty. If Juvenal and Plautius were
> alive today they would be on trial immediately after Gaius Cassius
> Nerva.

Would they? When did they specifically mock by name a noble Roman?

> And then whats next?

A more civil environment in which citizens are free to exchange
ideas, I expect.

> This is a very slippery slope, IMHO.

An opinion you are fully entitled to, and which I respect.
However, I remain unconvinced that you see the matter as I
see it, and I would appreciate that the question be treated
seriously. We have a constitutional recognition of "public
morality." The term is there for some reason, surely.
If it means anything, then my charge has merit. If it
means nothing, and the lawfully elected magistrates
and/or Senate tell me so, then I shall withdraw my charge
with my apology to all concerned for the waste of our
collective time.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 04:45:00 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@a...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> If Cassius Nerva loses, I will pay his fine.
>
> Vale
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus

Salvete omnes!

Sine ira et studio I have several quick comments to make on this
proposed trial and the reactions to it:

First I seriously question the competence of the Praetor to conduct a
trial based on pure "public morality" charges (I do not say that
there are not other avenues one can follow).

The Constituion, which is the basic authority for all decision-making
within Nova Roma clearly is meant to impose limits on the authority
of magistrates to make decisions (see Article I.a).

It is quite clear in Article IV.1.f that the power and obligation to
safeguard public morality rests with the Censors. How then could the
Praetors intervene here?

The only basis for conducting a trial by the Praetors would have to
rest in their imperium, as no lex on public morality has been passed
to my knowledge that they could claim to administer (and which would
probably be unconstitutional anyway).

There is no clear definition of "imperium" in the Constitution so we
have to rely on the spirit of the Constitution and the mos maiorum to
guide us here. In Roma antiqua the Praetor only had a limited
imperium as a minor collega. The same applies to our constitutional
system, as is indicated by the smaller numbers of lictors preceding
the Praetor. In Roma antiqua Praetors were basically given imperium
for areas that the Consuls did not pursue as part of their overall
imperium (i.e. the Courts).

So it seems fair to conclude that according to our Constitution the
Praetors must not interfere in the sphere of other magistrates'
responsibilities, unless it is by intercessio for equal or lesser
magistrates as mandated by the Constituion. Censors both have the
clear responsibility/competence AND are "higher" magistrates than the
Praetors.

I would therefore suggest to the Praetor to drop this charge based on
lack of competence of the Praetor's court.

Second and unrelated to what I have just said, I feel it will
undermine any decision of the Praetor's court and the authority of
the office itself, if citizens offer publicly to pay fines for
someone else before/after he has been found guilty/liable in court. I
strongly suggest to prohibit this (at least by edictum, better by
lex).

Avete et Valete

Marcus Marcius Rex
Candidate for Tribune

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Candidacy for Quaestor of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:49:04 -0500

Salve, Citizens of Rome! Elections 2755 A.U.C.

I, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, stand today in the shadow of those who have come before us and announce my candidacy for the Office of Quaestor.

I ask for your vote and support in this effort.

The office, as you know, is one of trust, for it is entrusted with responsibility for the funds of our Republic. I ask you to entrust me as one of the guardians of our treasury. In the macro world I have already served as treasurer of a number of groups that I have been a member of over the years. For two years I served as the national treasurer of one political group (USA) and was responsible for writing the budget and paying the bills. I was fully bonded (insured against theft) for the term of that office. My platform is a simple one and if elected I will to the best of my ability discharge the duties of the office and work to implement this platform.

Platform of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus candidate for Quaestor

I. I will suggest that a new column be added to the Album Civium that would indicate weather or not a citizen has paid the current and past years taxes. No points would be awarded for doing your civic duty but it would allow each citizen to know who is and who is not investing in our future. We must encourage each and every citizen to pay his or her taxes so that when the time comes we have the needed funds to pay for those thing we need.

II. I will propose that a "Grand Conclave" (for want of a better name), for all citizens, be held in one of Nova Roma's provinces every two /three years. This Grand Conclave will be a face to face meeting of the Republic. The time and place of the Grand Conclave would be announced long in advance so citizens can make long term plans to attend. The 2758 Grand Conclave would be announced in 2756 The Quaestor of the Republic would work hand in hand with the Province , selected as the site, to set up the least expensive event. This would include the hotel and other venues that he "Grand Conclave" would take place in as well as working on group rates for airfares to the site.

I will of course propose that the first Grand Conclave" take place in ROME. I
envision that it could developed over the years as a Nova Roma version of cities competing for the modern Olympic games with different provinces competing over who gets to host the event and in which years. Will this be easy NO , will it be worth while YES! Forgive me for using this comparison but SI-FI conventions like Star Trek started out small and build into massive conventions. I believe a Nova Roma Grand Conclave might start out small but will only get bigger and better as the years go by. We need to increase our face to face meetings and not just on a Provincial basis.
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

III. I am currently researching the cost and feasibility of a Citizenship ring. This ring could be purchased by any citizen of Nova Roma and would help to increase the funds in our treasury. We envision a gold (real or fake? both) ring with the SPQR in the center and the Nova Roma wreath around it.

IV. I will work for the establishment of two special fund in our treasury.
I, a Nova Roma Scholarship fund and 2, a disaster relief fund (our prayers go to our Italian Citizens who may have been effective by the recent earthquakes and the destruction and death they brought). Nova Roma needs to increase the publics awareness of our goals and see us as a positive force in our respective macro-nations.

I stand ready and willing to serve our Res Publica

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Quaestor and Candidate for Curator Differium (see other announcement)
Citizen, Nova Roma

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 07:06:48 +0100

"L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
> This limits the arguement you posted about hindering the
> recruitment from Europe or for that matter worldwide, IMHO.

Salve, Luci Corneli Sulla Felix.

Really? Interesting. How is that? This just states that PayPal accept a
few extra types of currency, none of which are even used in a majority
of Europe, much less other parts of the world. This has nothing to do
with the basic problem, that most europeans do NOT (NO, we don't.)
possess or use credit cards usable for international billing, and
getting one might prove more expensive than the actual tax/fee. It
proved to be so for me.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"deciusiunius" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 06:27:52 -0000

Salve M. Marci,

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@a...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@a...> wrote:

> It is quite clear in Article IV.1.f that the power and obligation
>to safeguard public morality rests with the Censors. How then could
>the Praetors intervene here?
>
> The only basis for conducting a trial by the Praetors would have to
> rest in their imperium, as no lex on public morality has been
>passed to my knowledge that they could claim to administer (and
>which would probably be unconstitutional anyway).

> So it seems fair to conclude that according to our Constitution the
> Praetors must not interfere in the sphere of other magistrates'
> responsibilities, unless it is by intercessio for equal or lesser
> magistrates as mandated by the Constituion. Censors both have the
> clear responsibility/competence AND are "higher" magistrates than
>the Praetors.

> I would therefore suggest to the Praetor to drop this charge based
>on lack of competence of the Praetor's court.

I find your legal reasoning on this matter quite sound and agree it
is not a matter for the praetor. The Constitution clearly delegates
the authority to deal with matters of "public morality" to the
censors. There is however the matter of definition. Without the
clarification of specific laws detailing what constitutes "public
morality" any charge right now could fall into that category if an
accuser so wishes. Would such a law be unconstitutional in your
opinion? You imply up above in an earlier paragraph that would be the
case.

> Second and unrelated to what I have just said, I feel it will
> undermine any decision of the Praetor's court and the authority of
> the office itself, if citizens offer publicly to pay fines for
> someone else before/after he has been found guilty/liable in court.
>I strongly suggest to prohibit this (at least by edictum, better by
> lex).

I'm not sure I see your reasoning here. Citizens are free to
criticize the government, certainly offering to pay a fine would just
be another form of free speech and criticism. It would be a political
statement as much as any verbal or written statement. I fail to see
how a praetor's decision would be undermined unless citizens were
stating the fine should be ignored or not paid at all.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
Senator,
Candidate for Praetor

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Candidacy of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus for Curator Differium
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:43:24 -0500

Salve, Citizens of Rome!

I , Tiberius Galerius Paulinus humbly come before you for the second time in these elections to ask for your support and vote for the office of Curator Differium.

As you know this office has been vacant for some time. It is charged with publishing a newsletter and I would like to take on this responsibility for our republic. I have served in the past in the macro world as the Public Relations Director of a membership group that I was a member of and one of the duties of that office was to publish a newsletter. I am ready for the challenge of putting out a first class newsletter for our citizens and the general public. I will of course need the input , ideas and suggestions of any and all citizens of what you would like to see in the newsletter. I am currently looking at the possibility of an online and/or snail-mail paper newsletter.

If elected I was thinking of a masthead that read Nova Roma Eagle: Because Rome wasn't build in a day" The monthly column from one of our esteemed Consuls entitled "From Where I Sit" A section on the pro and cons of a proposed Lex or other matter. A what happen in Rome today history section. A book review section on say Steven Saylor's newest book etc, A section on Latin. A list of Provincial events. Ads from sponsors from all over Nova Roma and hopefully pictures from Nova Roma I would enlist any citizen willing to help with this effort.

Nova Roma Eagle:
"Because Rome wasn't build in a day"

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Quaestor and Candidate for Curator Differium
Elections 2755 A.U.C.
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's trial
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 06:54:35 -0000

Q. Fabius Maximus writes:

> I would like to act as Cassius advocate, if Cassius has no
> objection.

It would be an honor to exchange legal arguments with you,
Maximus. I am pleased that you find the case worthy of
your talents.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	AW: [Nova-Roma] Pending member/fees
From:	<3s@hsk-net.de>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:17:35 -0600 (CST)

Salve, Livia Iulia.

Nova Roma membership fees are called taxes internally. This means that by macronational law we have membership fees, by Nova Roma law we have a tax.

Taxes should be paid by all citizens 18yrs or older. Even now, our tax is voluntarily. You are not obliged to pay it, but you should. So it�s also your decision to get your own "free membership" for a period of time.

Bene Vale
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Censor, Senator

-- Original Nachricht--
Von: Shaunne <cianistarle@hotmail.com>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Senden: 12:38
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Pending member/fees

Salve!
I wasnt going to begin posting until I had my citizenship approved,
but since I am a pending member I wanted to give an opinion on the
membership fees.
I would have no problem paying to be a member, and I would pay an
even more substantial amount than $3, but there is no way I would
have applied if one of the first things I saw was a membership fee. I
would have just assumed it was a way for someone to make money and
moved on. Why not have a free membership for a period of time (weeks
or months) and then charge for continued membership? I dont know if
this would solve the problem you are trying to address, but thought
i'd post it anyway.
Vale,
Livia Julia

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 07:22:04 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@t...> wrote:

> I find your legal reasoning on this matter quite sound and agree it
> is not a matter for the praetor. The Constitution clearly delegates
> the authority to deal with matters of "public morality" to the
> censors. There is however the matter of definition. Without the
> clarification of specific laws detailing what constitutes "public
> morality" any charge right now could fall into that category if an
> accuser so wishes. Would such a law be unconstitutional in your
> opinion? You imply up above in an earlier paragraph that would be
the
> case.

MMR: Thank you for this comment and let me clarify the law issue (if
you can call any form of legaleese a clarification :-) ).

Article IV.1.a states that Censors should issue edicta necessary to
carry out their tasks mandated by Constitution OR law. IV.1.f. of the
Constituion lays down their tasks regarding public morality, so it is
directly mandated by the Constitution without any further
qualifications necessary through laws (as exempli gratis in IV.1.d).
I would argue (it is a matter of interpretation of course) that a law
that tries to limit their obligation to define what public morality
means is unconstitutional as they are obliged by the Constitution to
to this directly through edicta (and decisions) in IV.1.a.

A law on the other hand that would not only define "public morality"
but would contain a provision that it be administered through the
Praetors would strike me as clearly unconstitutional because it would
assign a competence against a clear conctitutional provision.

Nota bene that there is no due process clause in the Constitution
(although some hints that it is necessary as trials are foreseen and
removal of citizenship as the highest form of right in Nova Roma
requires a trial first). So how Censors perform their duties is
pretty much up to them in my opinion.

>
> > Second and unrelated to what I have just said, I feel it will
> > undermine any decision of the Praetor's court and the authority
of
> > the office itself, if citizens offer publicly to pay fines for
> > someone else before/after he has been found guilty/liable in
court.
> >I strongly suggest to prohibit this (at least by edictum, better
by
> > lex).
>
> I'm not sure I see your reasoning here. Citizens are free to
> criticize the government, certainly offering to pay a fine would
just
> be another form of free speech and criticism. It would be a
political
> statement as much as any verbal or written statement. I fail to see
> how a praetor's decision would be undermined unless citizens were
> stating the fine should be ignored or not paid at all.
>

MMR: Good points, especially regarding free speech. However if
someone actually pays a fine for someone else he robs it of most of
its punishment quality. Pecuniary fines are meant to inflict "pain"
in the widest sense on the one who was found to be in breach of the
law by the court (some think of it as retribution but mostly it
serves to prevent the convict from doing it again and to also prevent
others from doing it like him).

If you take this pain away (suspended sentences notwithstanding) the
lesson is almost entirely lost and the law in effect disrespected.
That's why I would like a restriction on actually paying a fine for
someone else. Criticism of a court is fine as long as it does not
amount to contempt. And that is what it would be in my eyes (but
others will disagree of course).

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] *VENATIONES* 3rd day!!!!!
From:	Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:51:39 -0800 (PST)

WELCOME AGAIN, FOLKS! LIVE FROM THE CIRCUS
FLAMINIUS.... THE VENATIONES!!!

First of all, let me congratulate those who have been
able to sleep peacefully past night after seeing
Latina's fury against that poor tiger.

By the way, I have been told that Latina left us for a
while. She went to the Delphic oracle, in order to
pose the following question: how can I lace up my
caligae?
As she comes back she will tell us the response.

WELL, THIS IS ANOTHER WONDERFUL DAY FOR US! ANOTHER
FIGHTER, ANOTHER BEAST, ANOTHER COMBAT!!!!

Hey, I can see a very excited man... he's Tiberius
Claudius Lucentius Vindex, one of our richest men in
the venationes! He still own 10,333 Sestertii and a
well known fighter: CALLIMORIUS!

In fact this young Venator makes his entry in the
Circus. The crowd hails him!
He salutes the Magistrates, then Vindex. Well, a very
polite fighter! :)

Callimorius comes from Achaia, in the South of Greece.
He trains in the best (and most expansive!) gymnasium
we have: the Ludus Matutinus. He has 33 strength
points and 28 resistance points. Hmm... not so much...

This fighter killed a strong bear during past
Venationes, but he also had been rather debilitated by
that bruin! During past months Callimorius has been
convalescing and started a new training season;
still...

Anyway, let's make better thoughts! Today we
have...... OUCH!
SORRY FOLKS! IT REALLY ISN'T THE RIGHT SITUATION TO
HAVE BETTER THOUGHTS!
A GIGANTIC BULL ENTERED THE CIRCUS!!!!! (Hey! It looks
like Latina!)

This huge beast comes from Britannia; it has a
strength of 40! And a resistance of 41!

Really not a lucky day for our dear Tiberius
Claudius...

Hey, just a moment... Callimorius is watching the
bull. He's... HE'S SMILING!!! Does he have a plan? We
all know that Romans won a lot of battles using not
only their strength, but also their craftiness! Will
this Greek fighter follow that same attitude?
Hmm... that's intriguing!
LET'S SEE THE ACTION!

The bull runs toward Callimorius, while Callimorius
is... still smiling.
The bull is reaching its target! CALLIMORIUS KEEPS ON
SMILING! WHI DOESN'T HE MOVES? WHY! FOLKS, I CAN'T
SEE!!!
......
what?
......
silence?
.......
Nobody understand..... the bull unexpectedly stopped
and backed down. What's that?

Callimorius is showing something to the crowd.... it
is... it is a....
Oh, no..... that's *really* unbelievable!
Romans called it "mustela". That is to say...... A
FITCHEW!!!!!!!!!

Oh, poor bull...

The crowd doesn't seems to be happy. They want fights,
not jokes!

Complaints grow.

Our Plebeian Aediles look embarrassed.

Tiberius Claudius is ill in the situation...
... while his Callimorius.... is *still* smiling :(
He look at the crowd. He grins!
People are getting upset!

Tiberius Claudius seems to be willing to speak with
his fighter. He is calming people down. He is
reassuring them (good job, Vindex!).

but................

THE BULL IS RUNNING AGAIN!!!!!! and... AND IT HAS A
CLOTHES PEG ON ITS "NOSE" (who gave it?)
BUT CALLIMORIUS DOESN'T NOTICE IT!

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A BLOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Callimorius "flies" and falls down
painfully!...........
That's not nice!

Callimorius has now 22 resistance points, the bull 39.

But the bull attacks again. Callimorius has no time to
react!
ANOTHER GORING!

Callimorius 15; the bull 38.

ANT IT WASN'T THE END!
THE BULL RUNS AGAIN!!!!!!!!
BUT CALLIMORIUS MANAGES TO RAISE HIMSELF! HE
BRANDISHES HIS DAGGER!
THE BULL HIT HIM AGAIN! BUT CALLIMORIUS STUBBED IT!

HEY! IT LOOKS LIKE A REAL COMBAT!!!!!!!

Callimorius has a resistance of 11; the bull 32.

THE CROWD HAILS CALLIMORIUS! WHAT A SHOW!!!!!!

OUR VENATOR ATTACKS THE BULL AGAIN!
A HOLD! THE BULL IS NEARLY PINNED DOWN! IT TRIES TO
FREE ITSELF!
CALLIMORIUS KEEPS THE DAGGER BETWEEN HIS THEETS

I AM SWEATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THE CROWD TOO!!!
PEOPLE ARE CRAZY NOW!

THE BULL MANAGES TO SHAKE THE MAN OFF!

Callimorius 4; the bull 31!

The bull runs against Callimorius, WHICH HAS NO LONGER
HIS DAGGER!

What's happening? WHAT'S HAPPENING???!!!!!!!

Callimorius says something.... Oh, Hercules! HE GIVES
UP!!!!!!!
CALLIMORIUS GIVES UP!!!!!!!! It's unbelievable!

Please, don't consider this man as a coward. You saw
the way he fought (fitchews apart).
This things will happen!
Callimorius leaves the circus, but we all whish him to
improve his abilities during next training season, and
to get his revenge through other combats in the
future!

THAT'S ALL FOR TODAY. YOU ARE EXPECTED TO BE HERE
TOMORROW TO FOLLOW NEW AND EXCITING COMBATS!
Meanwhile, Latina continues her pilgrimage to disclose
the secret of the laces. Right now I have been told
that she just sailed to Delphi.
Support Latina in her engagement!
I will let you know!

VALETE!!!!!!

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nerva's post #4549
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:03:37 +0100

Salve Marinus, Salvete all, Salve Nerva,

Actually, I am very surprised that Pompeia herself isn't flipping out over
Nerva's post. If someone had done that to me, I would be screaming for
blood. There are few enough women here in Nova Roma and my opinion is that
that subject line flings women into the category of only being sexual
objects, which dimishes the women who struggle to be considered sex objects
that have BRAINS.

I think that another subject line would have had the same effect such as
'George Bush becomes a citizen of Nova Roma!!' or better yet 'See Nerva
Naked!'.

I understand that Nerva has done it more as a 'joke' and a way to get
people's attention. The strategy did work... I also have been known to
firmly plant my foot in my mouth when all I was trying to do was be funny
and so I feel a bit sorry for Nerva that he is taking so much heat over
this. I have always had a 'feel sorry for the Underdog' problem.However, i
do feel that some sort of official reprimand is in order, but much less than
crucification or beheading (a feeble attempt at humor:-).

Plus I think that even calling attention to the Back Alley list was a bad
idea. I subscribed for a few hours and saw everyone 'without their togas'
and wasn't happy to see all of the vindictiveness going on there. I think
that anyone participating in that free for all list will be losing votes
quicker than they can count them. I for one would prefer living in my
fantasy world where we are all friends even if we don't see eye to eye on
everything. Ok, I know that that is not reality, but like I said, it is MY
fantasy.

Valete friends!
Diana Moravia Aventina

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 05:05:04 EST

Salvete...

While the keeping of the publica morality falls within the sphere of the
Censors, neither made any objection to the Provincial Praetor's public
statement. The citizen making the complaint is free to request satisfaction,
it is his right as a Roman citizen as spelled out our Constitution. If the
Censors failed to rule, I believe he has the ability to seek redress else
where, which apparently he did.

As for other people paying the fines of the guilty party I agree with
Marcius, it is bad precedent.
However, I believe in this case, it was symbolic gesture made by the
Praetor's friends, much like people of political organizations who resign
offices in protest. I would also like to point out, that the only other
person who could pay the fine, would be the Paterfamilias of the accused.
That would fall under precedent.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Fee for joining?
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:37:40 -0300 (ART)

Salve,

I don�t usually annoy you with my opinion for nothing, but sometimes I really don�t believe in what I read on that list.

PAY just for JOIN?

Well, we do have problems to the payment of the taxes from the old and compreensive citizens, we would put this height for the newbies also?

And seems that there is people that still forget that NR is INTERNATIONAL. If sending US$12 is a problem (I�d say 'a pain in the XXX' ) imagine just US$3 !!!

Why do we prevent Trolls to enter? I really don�t have the definitive answer, but paying for join is against the Law... of good sense!

Vale bene in pacem deorum,

L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.

Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html

Se de �cio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,

Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...

Satira Quarta, Hor�cio

---------------------------------
Yahoo! GeoCities
Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas f�ceis de usar, espa�o de sobra e acess�rios.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:54:38 -0800 (PST)

--- Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net> wrote:
> "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
> > This limits the arguement you posted about
> hindering the
> > recruitment from Europe or for that matter
> worldwide, IMHO.
>
> Salve, Luci Corneli Sulla Felix.
>
> Really? Interesting. How is that? This just states
> that PayPal accept a
> few extra types of currency, none of which are even
> used in a majority
> of Europe, much less other parts of the world. This
> has nothing to do
> with the basic problem, that most europeans do NOT
> (NO, we don't.)
> possess or use credit cards usable for international
> billing, and
> getting one might prove more expensive than the
> actual tax/fee. It
> proved to be so for me.
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>

Salve,

AnyPay is a European based pay system that may prove
better for our citizens living outside the USA. They
can handle Electronic Funds Transfers, meaning no
credit card is needed. In addition it's fees are
cheaper than PayPal meaning Nova Roma will get a
larger share of the money sent.

http://www.anypay.com/site/ml/eng/htm/home/home.htm

I Again Recomend that we add AnyPay as an option for
remitting funds to Nova Roma.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Canidate for Praetor

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Avoiding Trolls/Verifying Applicants
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:23:34 +0100

Salvete!

[>] > We can prevent voter fraud by requiring provincial magistrates to
verify
[>] > those located within their regions. Once a person has been verified
as a
[>] > "legitimate" person (regardless of their e-mail address, hotmail or
[>] > otherwise) they should have all the rights of any other citizen. And
if
[>] > there is a fee for joining that fee should be collected by the
provincial

Our G. Modius Athanasius has made an excellent point.
This would
a) not incur huge telephone costs
b) The process of verifying new citizenships would be split between many
people so that one person would not be overloaded with this job
c) It would eliminate the problem of our friends in other countries
(Australia for example) who cannot send Id. through the mail
d) Would also pretty much elliminate the problem of money transfer from one
country to another.

My macronational group, the Pagan Federation also uses this same way of
verifying memberships and collecting money since we have members in about 25
different countries. We implemented it in 1999 and it has worked for us. A
suggestion that I made in NR in 1999 still is a good one: People who live
close to a city can always buy Thomas Cook travelers checks in order to pay
their taxes. You can buy a small amount such as 10 Euros/dollars or a large
amount. It isn't like AmEx who make you buy a block of minimum 100 USD at a
time. However it is important that we give clear instructions as to whom the
check needs to be made out to. For example, if someone makes it out to Nova
Roma or Diana Moravia Aventina and mails it to me, I couldn't cash it. But
if they made it out to Joanne Agata (my macronational name) I could cash it
and then list it in my financial report as money received from Mr or Mrs. X.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Local Group Idea...
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 06:49:06 -0500

Citizens of Nova Roma:

I think it is important to encourage and facilitate growth within Nova Roma on the local level. We talk about verification of members, and making sure people are who they say they are. Why not group individuals into local chapters. Initially, membership in a local group could be optional. Eventually, it could --perhaps-- become a requirement to full membership.

The classical Romans lived in Communities. So should we.

Here is my idea...

Local Chapters of Nova Roma could be called Municipia and Coloniae. The Coloniae would be the primary, and fully functional local entitiy, while the Municipia would be a "proto-coloniae" if you will.

A Municipia and Coloniae would be governed by a Prefect and subordinate staff and would answer directly to the Provincial Propraetor or Proconsul.

Colonia/Municipia would be required to work up their own by-laws and submit them to the provincial magistrate who would forward them to the censors for final approval. Not all Coloniae would have to operate exactly the same, but some things would be standardized.

I have been thinking of how to incorporate the Religio into the Coloniae idea, but am still mulling that over. I think it is important for those Roman Pagan Reconstructionists who desire a physical spiritual expression of their faith to have a means to do so, what better place than within a Nova Roma Coloniae?

It would be nice if each local group had its own sacerdos who could minister to those Pagans within the group. He or she could also act as a councilor of sorts for anyone, Christian, Pagan or otherwise. A truly spiritual person should be a source of edification to all peoples -- I still respect and nourish the advice of some of my old Christian confessors.

This is meant to engage dialogue on the subject. Part of my campaign platform was to encourage active participation of all citizens, and to foster local group activity.

In Fellowship:

G. Modius Athanasius
Legate - Lacus Magni
Flamen Pomonalis

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Silanus for Quaestor
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:17:31 +0000 (GMT)

Decimus Iunius Silanus Omnibus S.P.D.

It is with a degree of humility that I stand before
you today, adorned in the toga candida, announcing my
intention to stand for the office of quaestor. Many of
you may not know who I am, still less know me
personally, thus I will outline my credentials and
service to our beloved republic and my qualifications
for this office.

I am currently 29 years of age, although I will be 30
if and when I am elected to this office. I reside
within the city of Londinium, in the province of
Britannia. My work is within the field of urban
regeneration, facilitating and assisting with the
regeneration of deprived industrial areas within this
fair city. Budgetary and financial management skills,
necessary for the position of quaestor, are important
aspects of my current occupation.

My application for roman citizenship was accepted in
Junius 2754. Since that time, although not the most
active of individuals on the main mailing list, I have
worked diligently behind the scenes for the betterment
of Nova Roma. In December 2754, I had the honour to be
chosen as scribe to the then censor-elect illustrious
Caius Flavius Diocletianus, a position I still hold
and hope to retain next year. My work for the censor
has enabled me to become familiar with the internal
intricacies of Nova Roma. In Februarius 2755, the
senate bestowed on me the honour of serving as
propraetor for the province of Britannia. At that
time, Britannia was a most quiet and inactive
province, having suffered from a series of
resignations. It is with pride and satisfaction that I
see citizens from Britannia once more taking an ever
increasingly active role within Nova Roma, posting
regularly on the main list and assuming a variety of
official and unofficial positions. I hope to see taxes
and other financial contributions from this province
almost double in the year since I assumed office.

I have also been involved with other projects, but the
most important perhaps was assisting with the creation
of a charter for a sodalitas on ancient and Nova Roman
law, the Sodalitas Iurisprudentiae. This thoroughly
rewarding and informative project has yet to come to
fruition, though I hope it will soon be so.

Thus to my campaign platform, such as it is. Given
that the office of quaestor is not a policy making
magistracy, I will not bore you with an in-depth
analysis of my politics. Suffice to say that the key
responsibilities of the quaestor, namely managing the
Aerarium Saturni and administering funds as allocated
by the senate are well within my realm of expertise. I
will work assiduously with and for my assigned elected
magistrate. Finally, I will work with elected
colleagues and senior magistrates to update and
maintain the state's financial reports, which I note,
for one reason or another, have not been updated since
November 2754.

My friends within Nova Roma know me to be a honourable
and conscientious person, passionate about our
republic, albeit with a cool and level head. Further,
I feel privileged to add my name to the list of very
capable candidates who have already declared for this
office. Any citizen is most welcome to contact me on
this list, or privately, on these or any other
matters. I most humbly ask for your support.

Vivat Respublica

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Candidate for Quaestor.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 04:57:54 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@a...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@a...> wrote:
>Second and unrelated to what I have just said, I feel it will
> undermine any decision of the Praetor's court and the authority of
> the office itself, if citizens offer publicly to pay fines for
> someone else before/after he has been found guilty/liable in court. I
> strongly suggest to prohibit this (at least by edictum, better by
> lex).
>
> Avete et Valete
>
> Marcus Marcius Rex
> Candidate for Tribune

Now is this idea of yours also in the Mos Maiorum? And would it not
violate the soverigenity clause to presume to forbid citizens from
using their own money as they see fit?

Nerva

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Iuro / Juro / Oath of Office
From:	"ebastopol @" <ccova20@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:01:23 +0100

Ego, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), hoc ipso facto
sollemniter IVRO Novae Romae decus defendere et semper pro Novae
Romae Populo atque Senatu agere.

Ut Novae Romae magistratus ego, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma),
Romae deos deasque colere IVRO in omnibus publicae vitae temporibus
atque Romanas virtutes et ublica et privata vita persequi.

Ego, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), Romanam religionem favere et
defendere IVRO ut Novae Romae Reipublicae religionem et numquam agere
ita ut eius status publicae religionis aliquid detrimenti capiat.

Praeterea ego, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma) IVRO quam optime
fungi officium muneris Scriba Propraetoris procurator retis Meo Novae Romae civis honore et coram Populi Romani deis atque deabus et eorum voluntate et favore, munus Scriba Propraetoris procurator retis ACCIPIO una cum iuribus, privilegiis. munera atque officia quae meum munus comportat.

In Hispania Provincia, (07/11/2002)

---------------------------
Yo, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma) por la presente juro solemnemente
enaltecer el honor de Nova Roma y trabajar siempre por los leg�timos
intereses del Senado y el Pueblo de Nova Roma.

Como un magistrado de Nova Roma, yo, Marianus Adrianus Sarus, juro
honrar a los Dioses y Diosas de Roma en mis actividades p�blicas, y
perseguir las Virtudes Romanas en mi vida p�blica y privada.

Yo, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma) juro mantener y defender la Religi�n
Romana como Religi�n Estatal de Nova Roma, y nunca actuar de manera que
pueda resultar amenazada su condici�n de Religi�n del Estado.

Yo, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma) juro proteger y defender la Constituci�n
de Nova Roma.

Yo, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma) , juro adem�s cumplir con las obligaciones y responsabilidades del cargo de Scriba Propraetoris procurator retis , poniendo en ello toda mi capacidad y habilidades.

En la provincia Hispana. (07/11/02).

--------------------------

I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma),
swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings,
and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), swear to uphold and defend the
Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to
act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), swear to protect and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma.
I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of Scriba Propraetoris procurator retis to the
best of my abilities.
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Scriba Propraetoris procurator retis and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

In Hispania Provincia, (11/07/2002)

Agripina Minicia Tibula

Ciudadana de NovaRoma

HispaniaObtenga el m�ximo provecho del Web. Descarga GRATUITA de MSN Explorer: http://explorer.msn.es/intl.asp#es

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] VENATIONES - 3rd day
From:	Andy Pearson <andy.pearson@nrpb.org>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:03:17 -0000

Salvete, omnes,

Oh dear! What can I say? apart from:

1)How embarrasing! Still, as a Briton myself, I can at least be proud that
the bull hailed from my home province.

2)I blame the Ludus myself - whatever do they teach them nowadays?

3)Most noble Constantinus, is there a prize for the venator with the most
winsomely boyish sense of humour?

and

4)Can I place an ad in the 'for sale' section of Acta Diurna?

"For sale: Experienced Venator. Achaian appearance, slight build, has most
of own teeth. Walks with a limp. Might make a suitable childrens'
entertainer. Genuine reason for sale. Offers to: Tiberius Claudius Lecentius
Vindex, Provincia Britannia. No time wasters."

Valete

Vindex

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Australian Web Site
From:	"Marcus Sentiius Claudius" <msentius@bigpond.net.au>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:15:28 +1100

Salve fellow Citizens

We are currently constructing our province web site, which is long overdue. I would like to float some ideas with the main forum if I may.

Our Governor, Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura, and myself have some preliminary ideas. Any Citizen with some thoughts on web sites would be great - I have listed some thoughts below:

1. I know that citizens have constructed some wonderful sites, if any citizen has a special site, can they email me the address. I would also like to know if I have permission from the creator to use some of the graphics from that address. I have used some of the graphics from the Nova home, which I have assumed is OK, but will need to know if that is not permitted ??

2. I am thinking of having some links with some local Citizen identities, especially those who have established or sought to establish a legion locally. I want to include as much local content as possible so we can use it to recruit citizens.

3. This is a dumb question !!!- but do we have a central list of all of the special interest groups in nova and their yahoo addresses as I want to use this as a marketing tool to recruit new citizens.

4. I am currently using Dreamweaver 3, is there a better product that people have or should this be OK. I also have fireworks as well. Before people ask, I am the legal owner of the products (ie.e I purchased them)

5. If anyone has some useful graphics that they could spare, this would also be greatly appreciated.

6. I need Latin translations for "the gossip room", "provincial announcements", "Heroes", "what is happening"

7. I would also like to know if there are any restrictions placed on what we can put on our web sites. For instance I am thinking in our provincial page of having a section where Citizens can have their say (un restricted), and also other bits and peaces, such as buy and sell ??

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Vale been,

Marcus Sentius Claudius

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nerva Responds
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 05:01:02 -0000

Thanks to all who have offered support! I gladly accept the offer of
Senator Quintus Fabius for representation. And thanks to Sulla,
Calvus, and Corvina for their offers to pay my fine should I lose.
But this will not be necessary.

Nerva


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:31:21 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> Salvete...
>
> While the keeping of the publica morality falls within the sphere
of the
> Censors, neither made any objection to the Provincial Praetor's
public
> statement. The citizen making the complaint is free to request
satisfaction,
> it is his right as a Roman citizen as spelled out our
Constitution. If the
> Censors failed to rule, I believe he has the ability to seek
redress else
> where, which apparently he did.
>

Salve Quinte Fabi Maxime!

I believe the proper procedure (redress) to follow regarding
magistrates such as the Censors who fail their duties is described in
the Constitution as

"Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties,
that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia
that elected him." (IV.a)

Now that of course implies that one of the magistrates able to call
the relevant comitia to order can be convinced that such a
dereliction of duty occured.

The Censors have to act ex officio without the need of previous
private action. I am certain that an offical remark as to what
opinion the Censors hold certainly would clear up things and
immediately so without the need for a trial. But if they do NOT issue
such an opinion I am not at all convinced that this would already
amount to a dereliction of duty (especially if the legal basis for a
nota is weak to begin with). But indeed something to think about....

Regarding the right of a citizen to seek and receive assistance from
the State (I think you refered to II.B.7), this refers to religious
and social disputes (gosh our magistrates must be busy indeed :-) ).
One would assume that the dispute at hand must have a direct negative
impact on them to warrant any magisterial action on their behalf
(this test is derived from II.b.5 where a citizen can only claim the
right of provocatio if he/she is directly negatively affected by a
magisterial decision. It seems that one can draw a wider analogy
here. Why should the state be obliged to intervene on behalf of a
privatus if there is no obvious harm to him).

I am sorry to say that I do not see this at all if the only basis of
the claim is a violation of public morality and the one asking for
assistance is just a bystander.

> As for other people paying the fines of the guilty party I agree
with
> Marcius, it is bad precedent.
> However, I believe in this case, it was symbolic gesture made by
the
> Praetor's friends, much like people of political organizations who
resign
> offices in protest. I would also like to point out, that the only
other
> person who could pay the fine, would be the Paterfamilias of the
accused.
> That would fall under precedent.
>
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>

Thank you for this comment. I would just like to make my point a bit
clearer by asking the following question:

If a Court sentences someone to a fine of $500 PLUS a prison term
lasting six months, should someone else be able to pay the fine AND
serve the prison sentence?

I can hardly see anyone saying yes to the second part of the question
(in some legal systems it is a crime in itself to even attempt it).
But what exactly is the difference to the fine? This should just
underscore what I mean by that the purpose of a punishment is
undermined if someone else picks up the bill/orange jump suit...

In my opinion the best solution for the State would simply be to
deduct it from the tax payment for the citizen until the full fine is
paid and/or to accept money from no other source than the convicted
himself. This would be a useful amendment to the Lex proposal by our
current Tribune Salix Astur.

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex
Candidate for Tribune

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Futility
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:38:36 -0000

Vale!

Marcus Minucius Audens,

I put my few fumbly written words below....

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus;
>
> And my thanks to you sir, for your very kind words as well. Yours
and others both on this Main List as well as off-list, has been a
strong indication that many of the Citizens of nova Roma feel as I do.
>*****Thanks, I appreciate you kind words, and I am humbled.
<SNIP!>

> On the 15th and 16th of July, 1857, Nana Sahib a hindu leader
ordered that more than 100 British Protestant women and chidren
should be "butchered" (this atrocity was caried out by local
butchers) at Cawnpore, Rajputana, 260 miles SE of Delhi.
<SNIP!>
*****I didn't know that! There is just SO much that we don't know
individually, but corporally (or as a group there:-}), our knowledge
base is awesome! This is why I honestly believe that if we FOCUS our
skills and goals on making Nova Roma "real" (Land, ect), we CAN
accomplish anything we choose to!

Each and every religous value system has one major flaw....humans run
them. While I may be a wiccan (I KNOW I misspelled that!), pagan,
presbyterian, ect, we all have the RIGHT to worship hosoever we
choose, as long as we do not force our values on others, or harm
others. We have SO many other items to consider, that this one is
truly an easy one to look past, and let each individual live their
own life, make their own happiness. We all read the conditions upon
joining Nove Roma. No one is asking you to worship systems in which
you do not believe...we are asked to be TOLERANT of each other's
views, that's all.

Well...I'm finished now. (*blush*) Sorry I was a bit preachy there.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:50:14 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@c...> wrote:

>
> Now is this idea of yours also in the Mos Maiorum? And would it not
> violate the soverigenity clause to presume to forbid citizens from
> using their own money as they see fit?
>
> Nerva

Salve Nerva!

Regarding the first one I simply do not know what the mos maiorum was
(I could do a research on that only when in Europe but obviously QFM
can help out here). The systematic concerns I have outlined in a
different post.

Regarding the second...of course everyone is free to do with his
property as he/she sees fit....as long is the use stays within the
confines of the constitution and does not cause harm. Or would you
say that because of the sovereignty clause everyone is free to pay
for the murder of a fellow citizen? This is an absurd result which we
lawyers like to avoid. With regard to whether the payment of a fine
harms someone else I would say (maybe a surprise for you) it harms
the State's right (and obligation) to exact punishment for the breach
of law.

Also, I think that there is some ground to believe that our
Constitution contains grains of a due process clause which allows the
State to take away rights of citizens after proper procedures with
adequate safeguards were followed. When the citizenship can be
stripped after trial why should not lesser rights be subject to
removal after trial? (nota on the other hand have a direct basis in
the Constitution). However, I believe the sovereignty clause is part
of the legislative agenda of at least one of the Consular candidates
and will be solved in the coming year.

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:00:31 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@a...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@a...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > If Cassius Nerva loses, I will pay his fine.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
>
>
> Second and unrelated to what I have just said, I feel it will
> undermine any decision of the Praetor's court and the authority of
> the office itself, if citizens offer publicly to pay fines for
> someone else before/after he has been found guilty/liable in court.
I
> strongly suggest to prohibit this (at least by edictum, better by
> lex).

My offer to pay Nerva's fine is a protest against the circumventing
of the rightful authority of the Censors to determine what is or is
not a grave offense against the public morals. Be assured that I
have no intent to undermine the rightful authority of the Praetor,
though others seem intent on undermining the authority of the Censors
by going "law suit magistrate shopping."
Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Endorsements - Consul and Praetor
From:	<3s@hsk-net.de>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:04:35 -0600 (CST)

Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Citizens,

a huge number of good citizens announced their candidacies for the various offices, they intend to serve our res publica over the next year. This is the engagement we need so urgent for our nation, we need able, dedicated and engaged citizens, offering time and also private money for the benefit of the whole community.

During every election campaign, it�s a tradition in Nova Roma to give support to candidates one sympathizes with or consider them as *very* able to fill a specific office.

For the office of Consul my special support is for the candidates Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus. Both are very engaged and experienced magistrates and Senators.

We all remember, and still have the pleasure to take part in the games and contests given by Caeso Fabius Quintilianus as Curule Aedile this year. Besides this, Caeso Fabius is an experienced governor (Thule Provincia). He�s more than qualified for the office of Consul, and you should consider to elect him into this magistracy.

Titus Labienus Fortunatus is well-known in our res publica as an engaged and able administrator and magistrate. He collected his experiences is a wide variety of positions, including Praetor and Tribunus Plebis. Like Caeso Fabius Quintilianus he is more than qualified for Consul, and I would like to see him in this position, too.

Both candidates are surely able to cooperate well, for the benefit of our Res Publica Nova Roma.

It was a pleasure for me to see the candidacy of one of our men of the first hour, Senator Consularis Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus, for Praetor. Dacius Iunius Palladius played a key role in the development of our legal system we currently have. His voice is heard in the Senate, his points of view are reasonable and based on facts, not on persons.
Also, the Praetor position is a magistracy with Imperium, and a Senator should be the first choice for such important offices.

Citzens, you will not find a candidate more suitable and qualified for the administration of law, for Praetor, than Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus. You should give him your trust and your vote.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Citizen serving the Res Publica

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Digest No 266 Verifying Applicants
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@starpower.net>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:35:00 -0500

Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD

I have always believed that there should be at least a signed form submitted
for citizenship applications.
One thing that has been forgotten from the early history of Nova Roma is
that all the first applications were Snail mail with a "SASE" (self
addressed stamped envelope) included. I believe that this procedure should
be reinstated. I know many will oppose this on the grounds that it will be
more difficult, but to that I say 'anything worth having is worth working
for.'

Just a note, we have received applications only to have the email address
bounce within a day or two.
I could go on with the problems we face, but suffice it to say that I
support some form of identity verification.

I do like the idea of leaving newly acquired citizens as Capite Censi until
they have submitted their tax payment as a beginning.

Valete bene omnibus.

________________________________________________________________________

Subject: Re: Avoiding Trolls/Verifying Applicants

Avete Omnes,

I would be pleased to consider promulgating such legislation in my remaining
summons in December. I also liked Diana Moravia's suggestion (and I believe
that Censor Equitius came up with something similar years ago) about having
incoming citizens pay a small fee to enter Nova Roma.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul

Subject: Re: Re: Avoiding Trolls/Verifying Applicants

Salve Consul,

> It has happened on more than one occasion. Even affecting magistrates.

Yes. There have also been many instances of a suspicious flurry of
applications from similar addresses in a brief time; some of those are
an entire family signing up at once, but just as often it's an attempt
at fraud.

> We are talking about voter fraud. Because what would the purpose of
having
> multiple citizenships do for someone? It would give them more votes.

One solution to this would be to change the lex regarding Assidui and Capite
Censi so that first-year citizens are no longer considered Assidui, until
they've paid. Thus, the fraudsters who have multiple identities would still
have multiple votes, but the votes would be nearly useless.

Vale, Octavius.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 16:11:11 +0100

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> AnyPay is a European based pay system that may prove
> better for our citizens living outside the USA. They
> can handle Electronic Funds Transfers, meaning no
> credit card is needed. In addition it's fees are
> cheaper than PayPal meaning Nova Roma will get a
> larger share of the money sent.

Salve, Luci Sicini Druse.

They look good, or at least speak highly of themselves. However, they
lack support for most european countries, including Sweden. Also, to be
allowed in you must both agree to their terms, which are only available
in german, as well as provide them with access to your bank account.
Which they cannot GET access to, in most countries, see above.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 16:02:39 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Gnaeus Equitius Marinus"
<equitius_marinus@y...> wrote:
>
> This is *not* a capital crime by any stretch. It is, in my view,
> an offense of the sort that aediles once dealt with by imposing
> a minor fine. Thus I began with a request to the aedile whose
> authority extended over the current games. If the matter needs
> to go "up the chain of command" to the Censors, then so be it.
> Invoking the Censors seems a bit excessive for something I view
> as a misdemeanor offense, but I certainly appreciate that it is
> their right of arrogatio to provide a ruling on the question.
>
> -- Marinus

Very interesting point, do you have any sources whether the policing
power of the Aediles covered the safeguarding of public morality (I
know they were e.g. in charge of the orderly conduct in brothels)?

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Question on centuries
From:	"danedwardsuk" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:53:10 -0000

Salvete,

I have a question. The profile pages list century points and consequently to which century a citizen belongs. However, it does not detail which class a citizen belongs to. Is this information available?

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Nerva's post #4549 & applogy
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:48:34 +0100

Salve Sulla,

My email to the back Alley is being written right now! Hang on 5 minutes...

Plus... I think that maybe we all are taking Nerva's post a little too
seriously--me included. My character changes a bit after I've had 3 cups of
coffee.

I would like to withdraw my previous email on the subject and to apologize
to Nerva. (My apologies Nerva). Nerva).

I've been thinking and if he meant it as a joke, then let's just give the
guy a break.... And if Pompeia isn't offended by it, then why should I be
worried for her?

Vale,
Diana

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] NEW POSTING RULE!
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 16:16:54 -0000

Well folks...I thinks it's time for a NEW POSTING RULE!

NO posting allowed until AFTER the first cup of coffee if you are
under 30! Over 30, you must have TWO!

That way, we all know you ARE truly awake! :-)

Hee Hee

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Frank & K.C." <shamrock@c...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...> wrote:
> > Salve Sulla,
> >
> >>
> > I would like to withdraw my previous email on the subject and to
> apologize
> > to Nerva. (My apologies Nerva). Nerva).
> >
> > I've been thinking and if he meant it as a joke, then let's just
> give the
> > guy a break.... And if Pompeia isn't offended by it, then why
> should I be
> > worried for her?
> >
> > Vale,
> > Diana
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Salve: Diana Moravia Aventia
>
>
> We've not corresponded all that much , but I have enjoyed ther
little
> that we have. I always read your posts as I feel that there is
> usually some merit to them. This post is the best so far as you
> willingly admit that you can change your mind and admit that maybe
> you acted a little too fast. We all do it,usaully me, more than any
> others. The key was -"And if Pompeia isn't offended by it, then why
> should I be worried for her?" I sure wish more people would say
that.
> BTW , I'm on my 4th. cupppppppppp.
>
> Vale,
>
> Ambrosius Silvanius Virbius Epulone
>
> Independant candidate for Curule Aedile
>
> " A potato in every pot"


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:42:26 -0000

Marcus Marcius Rex writes:

> I am certain that an offical remark as to what
> opinion the Censors hold certainly would clear up things and
> immediately so without the need for a trial.

I would certainly accept an official statement from the Censors
as final on this matter.

This is *not* a capital crime by any stretch. It is, in my view,
an offense of the sort that aediles once dealt with by imposing
a minor fine. Thus I began with a request to the aedile whose
authority extended over the current games. If the matter needs
to go "up the chain of command" to the Censors, then so be it.
Invoking the Censors seems a bit excessive for something I view
as a misdemeanor offense, but I certainly appreciate that it is
their right of arrogatio to provide a ruling on the question.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Local Group Idea...
From:	"Frank & K.C." <shamrock@cros.net>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 16:02:02 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Citizens of Nova Roma:
>
> I think it is important to encourage and facilitate growth within
Nova Roma on the local level. We talk about verification of members,
and making sure people are who they say they are. Why not group
individuals into local chapters. Initially, membership in a local
group could be optional. Eventually, it could --perhaps-- become a
requirement to full membership.
>
> The classical Romans lived in Communities. So should we.
>
> Here is my idea...
>
Salve, Athanasios

Yours is a very good idea, practical, would be great for new
membership , easy to promote , and a very tangeble commodity .
I have a hard time getting much interest built up about NR , even
among friends that are voracious readers of Roman history. They
believe that our goals are just unreachable as long as this type of
forum is the main contact point. It breeds the kind of obnoxious
behavior that is so often in play here. Just imagine a chance to
trade ideas , work on projects, and to be able to debate without fear
of condemnation or worse----- CENSORSHIP. How forceful would some of
our magestrates be to our faces ,I wonder? I've got an idea! Why dont
we meet in say....... Lima or Sydney? A new civilian that I have
never met has joined my gens -Servius Silvanis Hilario- and he lives
in the Dayton area. He was briefly put on my Gens list but dissapered
as he will not be allowed citizenship until after the voting.
(Paranoia again), like I'm stuffing new members for votes! Anyway ,
He was excited when I told him that our Gens meets regularly in NW
Ohio. I'm sure he would be interested in your ideas. With a
Propraetor like Marcus Bianchius Antonius , who is one of the most
amniable and progressive magistrates that I've had the pleasure to
talk to, ( have never heard him say the words- banish, censor, shun
or prosecute)we could easily start the practice at least unoffically
here in Ohio. Maybe start with once a month and rotate the locations
or heck keep it as central as possible. As much as I hate bringing in
the SCA as an example, their structure is built on your very
suggestion. It worked very well for them. Nova Roma would explode
with new members. The problem with that, however, is our resident
nay sayers would whine that #1- too many people are coming in to
properly approve, #2- They don't share the same jack boot mentality
of law and punishment,#3 -Those that ride their computers 24/7 would
fail miserably when dealing with something REAL. #4- The most
damaging of all,their long distance virtual diatribes and imperious
opinons would mean little to people that enjoy real in your face co-
operation and comraderie. ( You all know who you are). Its funny even
though I love the foundation and premise of Nova Roma the actual
functioning and dependance of this forum as a conduit is way too
close to a LARP or internet role playing game. Ideas like yours would
rapidly bring in funds for that land that everyone talks
about.Getting back to your original statement, Athanasios, I say lets
get going on it offically, or un!

Vale,

A. Silvanius Virbius Epulone

For Curule Aedile

" Running alone , Not on anothers coat tails"
" I stand for peace and harmony , not police action "

* pardon my grammar as I don't have spell check and I suffer greatly
from Russain hands and Roman fingers

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Candidacy For Tribunus Plebis
From:	"L. Didius Geminus Sceptius $E-mail$" <sceptia@yahoo.es>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:26:55 +0100

Salvete omnes

I came to the Forum in order to present my candidacy for the office of
Tribunus Plebis for the year 2756 A.U.C.
For those who doesn't know who I am, I present my Curriculum Vitae so you
all can make your mind about me.
My name is Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius, aged 26, living in Provincia
Hispania and being a Citizen since August 2755 A.U.C.
I have worked with many colleagues of my own Province as Gn. Salix Galaicus,
being his successor in the Arena and providing since march of 2756 Games for
all the Province citizens. I also designed the Naumachiae that I'm very
proud to say can be done next year in Nova Roma if Fr. Apulus Caesar is the
next Curule Aedile. He offered me to work in the Officina Ludorum and I will
support him on it. Any other can also find on me a help for the Games any
time that it would be needed.
In the Academiae Thules, the Great Institution that provides us with
knowledge and a wise view of our future, I'm Praeceptor of Philosophy. Next
year woul be donde the course C. Curius Saturninus and I were preparing and
due to personal matters I had to delay. Now I can say, proudly, that I
belongs to the Academiae and that it is a great job for Nova Roma.
Now I am too the Legatus Externis Rebus, it is to say, the officer in charge
of the recruitment of citizens, the officer in charge of the website and the
officer in charge of the relationship between my own Province and the other
NR Provinces. We have a great job in mind and I hope we can achieve it. I
look for a Provincia Hispania that could be a model for the rest of NR. So
to say, the best for Hispania an Nova Roma comes together.
And at last, I belong to the Curia Hispanica, the Consilium Propraetoris in
charge of developing the laws of our Province. All beneath the great job of
our Propraetor.
Those are my merits. I quoted these facts in support of my candidature. But
now I say what I want to do as Tribunus Plebis.
As Tribunus, I promise to work as hard as I can in the achievement of a Real
Nova Roma Republic. It means democracy, it means more meetings, it means
people joining our flags and eagles. I promise to use correctly the
Intercessio, and to help always those people that needs me. And of course, I
promise to hear all the people, all the quirites, all the citizens.
I offer then a solid sound, a honest and straight view. I hope only to be
like my predecessors, specially Gn. Salix Astur and Gn. Salix Davianus.
All my program can be resumed as follows: AUSCULTARE

Vale bene,

Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius
- Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae -
- Decurio Hispano -
- Praeceptor Thules -

_______________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:33:51 -0800

Avete Marinus et Omnes,

Oh please post this information on the ML I would like to see this information as well.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:25 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)

Marcus Marcius Rex writes:

> Very interesting point, do you have any sources whether the policing
> power of the Aediles covered the safeguarding of public morality (I
> know they were e.g. in charge of the orderly conduct in brothels)?

I do. I shall be pleased to provide you with citations when I
return home this evening, and have access to my Roman library.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nerva's post #4549 & applogy
From:	"Frank & K.C." <shamrock@cros.net>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 16:14:02 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Sulla,
>
>>
> I would like to withdraw my previous email on the subject and to
apologize
> to Nerva. (My apologies Nerva). Nerva).
>
> I've been thinking and if he meant it as a joke, then let's just
give the
> guy a break.... And if Pompeia isn't offended by it, then why
should I be
> worried for her?
>
> Vale,
> Diana
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve: Diana Moravia Aventia

We've not corresponded all that much , but I have enjoyed ther little
that we have. I always read your posts as I feel that there is
usually some merit to them. This post is the best so far as you
willingly admit that you can change your mind and admit that maybe
you acted a little too fast. We all do it,usaully me, more than any
others. The key was -"And if Pompeia isn't offended by it, then why
should I be worried for her?" I sure wish more people would say that.
BTW , I'm on my 4th. cupppppppppp.

Vale,

Ambrosius Silvanius Virbius Epulone

Independant candidate for Curule Aedile

" A potato in every pot"


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] NEW POSTING RULE!
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:24:06 +0100

LOL Rufus!! I'll second that motion!!
But you missed 40: For over 40, no posting until after your 2nd mug of
double espresso !
Anyone care to admit make a suggestion for over 50?

Vale,
Diana
[>] > NO posting allowed until AFTER the first cup of coffee if you are
[>] > under 30! Over 30, you must have TWO!

That way, we all know you ARE truly awake! :-)

Hee Hee

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Nerva's post #4549
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:22:43 -0800

Avete Omnes!

Plus I think that even calling attention to the Back Alley list was a bad
idea. I subscribed for a few hours and saw everyone 'without their togas'
and wasn't happy to see all of the vindictiveness going on there. I think
that anyone participating in that free for all list will be losing votes
quicker than they can count them. I for one would prefer living in my
fantasy world where we are all friends even if we don't see eye to eye on
everything. Ok, I know that that is not reality, but like I said, it is MY
fantasy.

Sulla: Interesting you said that, since you just signed back onto the back alley.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legal remarks (was Re: Nerva's trial)
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 16:25:50 -0000

Marcus Marcius Rex writes:

> Very interesting point, do you have any sources whether the policing
> power of the Aediles covered the safeguarding of public morality (I
> know they were e.g. in charge of the orderly conduct in brothels)?

I do. I shall be pleased to provide you with citations when I
return home this evening, and have access to my Roman library.

-- Marinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Iuro / Juro / Oath of Office
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 16:21:38 -0000

Salve Agrapina et omnes,

Agrapina, congradulations on your new appointment as Scriba
Propraetoris in hispania. I know you will do very well in the job.
I'll get over to hispania post and chat with you and your friends
later!

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

> I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), do hereby solemnly
swear to
> uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
> interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
> As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga
Coloma),
> swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings,
> and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
> I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), swear to uphold and
defend the
> Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never
to
> act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
> I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), swear to protect and
defend
> the Constitution of Nova Roma.
> I, Agripina Minicia Tibula (Covadonga Coloma), further swear to
fulfill the
> obligations and responsibilities of the office of Scriba
Propraetoris procurator retis to the
> best of my abilities.
> On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
> Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and
favor,
> do I accept the position of Scriba Propraetoris procurator retis
and all the rights, privileges,
> obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
>
> In Hispania Provincia, (11/07/2002)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Agripina Minicia Tibula
>
>
> Ciudadana de NovaRoma
>
>
> HispaniaObtenga el m�ximo provecho del Web. Descarga GRATUITA de
MSN Explorer: http://explorer.msn.es/intl.asp#es
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Withdrawl of Suit
From:	equitius_marinus@yahoo.com
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:18:53 -0500

Honored Praetor, fellow Romans,

At the request of a senior member of Nova Roma whose opinions
I value, respect, and trust, I am withdrawing my suit against
Gaius Cassius Nerva for his offense against the public morality.

I would still appreciate an official opinion on the scope and
extend of "public morality" should the Censors wish to provide
one.

Vale,

-- Marinus

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Withdrawal of Suit
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:41:37 +0100

Salve Marinus,

[>] I am withdrawing my suit against
> Gaius Cassius Nerva for his offense against the public morality.

I think that you are a great guy with your heart in the right place but I am
glad that you withdrew your suit. I wish you the best of luck in the
elections. You have my vote !
Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Question on centuries
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:29:01 -0600 (CST)

Salve Decime Iuni,

> I have a question. The profile pages list century points and consequently to
> which century a citizen belongs. However, it does not detail which class a
> citizen belongs to. Is this information available?

Currently:

Class I = 1-19
Class II = 20-35
Class III = 36-48
Class IV = 49-59
Class V = 60-66
Cap. Cen. = 67

These numbers will likely change soon, as our population has grown. A
reallocation of centuries (and change in most citizens' placement) will
take place a few days before voting starts.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Consul of Nova Roma
Candidate for Censor 2756:
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Withdrawl of Suit
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:11:31 -0000

Salve Gnae Equiti Marine!

> At the request of a senior member of Nova Roma whose opinions
> I value, respect, and trust, I am withdrawing my suit against
> Gaius Cassius Nerva for his offense against the public morality.

>From my experience of the Sodalitas Militarium I believe you to be a
man of integrity and a noble Roman. I believe I understand you
taking offense and I applaud your withdrawal of your suit.

Best of luck in your run for Aedilis.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nerva's fine
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:30:55 -0800 (PST)

Salvete omnes--

Just to clarify something here...

Decius Iunius said:
I'm not sure I see your reasoning here. Citizens are
free to criticize the government, certainly offering
to pay a fine would just be another form of free
speech and criticism. It would be a political
statement as much as any verbal or written statement.
I fail to see how a praetor's decision would be
undermined unless citizens were stating the fine
should be ignored or not paid at all.

Renata Corva: Just so it's clear--I am not offering
to assist with the fine out of any desire to criticize
the government of Nova Roma or to undermine the
sentences of its court. I am the person who sent the
message to the list against my better judgment. I
therefore feel that I bear some of the responsibility
for Nerva possibly being forced to pay a monetary fine
for his ill-advised post. He is the one who wrote it,
but if I had not passed it on, we would not now be
having this discussion.

---
Renata Corva
Scriba Praetoris

=====
Chantal
http://www.4dw.net/aerden/theran/theranweyr.html

"Yesterday, it worked.
Today, it is not working.
Windows is like that."

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Australian Web Site
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <curatrix@villaivlilla.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:07:08 -0000

Julilla Sempronia Magna Marcum Sentium Claudium SPD

Felicitatio on your endeavor to build a web site for your provincia!
If you will contact me off-list and give me some idea of what type of
graphics you are looking for, I will be happy to assist you in your
efforts. I could consult my Latin dictionary and translate your
requests, but that might be dicey from a one-semester Latin student:
why don't you ask for translations at this group?

By the way, if you go to http://groups.yahoo.com/ and type "nova
roma" in the search box, you'll generate a list of 69 yahoo groups,
not all of which are "offical" by any means!

Bonam Fortunam,

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| Rogatrix, MMDCCLV
Scriba, Nova Roma Curator Araneae
Curatrix Araneae,
America Boreoccidentalis
http://ambor.konoko.net

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Latinitas

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Marcus Sentiius Claudius" <msentius@b...>
wrote:
> Salve fellow Citizens
>
> We are currently constructing our province web site, which is long
overdue. I would like to float some ideas with the main forum if I
may.
>
> Our Governor, Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura, and myself have some
preliminary ideas. Any Citizen with some thoughts on web sites would
be great - I have listed some thoughts below:
>
> 1. I know that citizens have constructed some wonderful sites, if
any citizen has a special site, can they email me the address. I
would also like to know if I have permission from the creator to use
some of the graphics from that address. I have used some of the
graphics from the Nova home, which I have assumed is OK, but will
need to know if that is not permitted ??
>
> 2. I am thinking of having some links with some local Citizen
identities, especially those who have established or sought to
establish a legion locally. I want to include as much local content
as possible so we can use it to recruit citizens.
>
> 3. This is a dumb question !!!- but do we have a central list of
all of the special interest groups in nova and their yahoo addresses
as I want to use this as a marketing tool to recruit new citizens.
>
> 4. I am currently using Dreamweaver 3, is there a better product
that people have or should this be OK. I also have fireworks as
well. Before people ask, I am the legal owner of the products (ie.e
I purchased them)
>
> 5. If anyone has some useful graphics that they could spare, this
would also be greatly appreciated.
>
> 6. I need Latin translations for "the gossip room", "provincial
announcements", "Heroes", "what is happening"
>
> 7. I would also like to know if there are any restrictions placed
on what we can put on our web sites. For instance I am thinking in
our provincial page of having a section where Citizens can have their
say (un restricted), and also other bits and peaces, such as buy and
sell ??
>
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Vale been,
>
> Marcus Sentius Claudius
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Question on centuries
From:	"danedwardsuk" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:35:20 -0000

Thankyou consul.

Silanus.

>> I have a question. The profile pages list century points and consequently to
>> which century a citizen belongs. However, it does not detail which class a
>> citizen belongs to. Is this information available?
>
>Currently:
>
>Class I = 1-19
>Class II = 20-35
>Class III = 36-48
>Class IV = 49-59
>Class V = 60-66
>Cap. Cen. = 67
>
>These numbers will likely change soon, as our population has grown. A
>reallocation of centuries (and change in most citizens' placement) will
>take place a few days before voting starts.
>
>Vale, Octavius.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Juramento Scriba Propraetoris Militarum
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Caius=20Iulius=20Barcinus=20Ciconius?= <xgemella@yahoo.es>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:00:37 +0100 (CET)

Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus <ziripot@hotmail.com> wrote:Ego, -Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus (Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n)-, hoc ipso
facto sollemniter IVRO Novae Romae decus defendere et semper pro Novae Romae
Populo atque Senatu agere.Ut Novae Romae magistratus ego, Lucius Fabius
Verus Pompaelianus(Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n), Romae deos deasque colere IVRO in
omnibus publicae vitae temporibus atque Romanas virtutes et ublica et
privata vita persequi.Ego, Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus (Xabier Ekaitz
Bar�n)-, Romanam religionem favere et defendere IVRO ut Novae Romae
Reipublicae religionem et numquam agere ita ut eius status publicae
religionis aliquid detrimenti capiat.Praeterea ego, Lucius Fabius Verus
Pompaelianus (Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n) IVRO quam optime fungi officium muneris
Scriba Propraetoris Militarium .Meo Novae Romae civis honore et coram Populi
Romani deis atque deabus et eorum voluntate et favore, munus Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ACCIPIO una cum iuribus, privilegiis. munera atque
officia quae meum munus comportat.

In Hispania Provincia, (07/11/02)
--------------------------

I, Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus (Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n)-, do hereby
solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the
best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, -Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus (Xabier
Ekaitz Bar�n),swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.I, -Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus (Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n)-, swear to
uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State
Religion.I, -Caivs Ivlivs Barcinvs Ciconivs(Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n)-, swear to
protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.I, Caivs Barcinvs Ciconivs
(Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n)-, further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Scriba Propraetoris Militarium to the
best of my abilities.On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the
presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and
favor, do I accept the position of -tu cargo- and all the rights,
privileges,obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

In Hispania Provincia, (07/11/02)

Yo, Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus (Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n), por la presente
juro solemnemente enaltecer el honor de Nova Roma y trabajar siempre por los
leg�timos intereses del Senado y el Pueblo de Nova Roma.
Como un magistrado de Nova Roma, yo, *Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus *
(*Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n*), juro honrar a los Dioses y Diosas de Roma en mis
actividades p�blicas, y perseguir las Virtudes Romanas en mi vida p�blica y
privada.
Yo, *Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus (Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n), juro mantener y
defender la Religi�n Romana como Religi�n Estatal de Nova Roma, y nunca
actuar de manera que pueda resultar amenazada su condici�n de Religi�n del
Estado.

Yo, *Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus (Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n), juro proteger y
defender la Constituci�n de Nova Roma.
Yo, *Lucius Fabius Verus Pompaelianus (Xabier Ekaitz Bar�n), juro adem�s
cumplir con las obligaciones y responsabilidades del cargo de *Scriba
Propraetoris Militarium , poniendo en ello toda mi capacidad y habilidades.
In provincia Hispania 7/11/02

TOMVLVS BONVS POPVLI HISPANI
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nrhispania/

SALVE, NAVTA, IN GRATAM TERRAM HISPANIAE!
http://www.geocities.com/nrhispania

POST-EMERITA 2002: ENTERATE DE COMO FUE!
http://www.geocities.com/aiaxes/merida2.htm

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Pending member/fees
From:	Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia <arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:55:09 -0800 (PST)

As a new member, I like this idea very much. I think
it would be difficult for a prospective member to
understand the benefits of paying the fee, until they
have been a part of the community for awhile. As Livia
said, they may just decide to move on, whatever the
amount.

Arnamentia

****************************
Subject: Pending member/fees

Salve!
I wasnt going to begin posting until I had my
citizenship approved,
but since I am a pending member I wanted to give an
opinion on the
membership fees.
I would have no problem paying to be a member, and I
would pay an
even more substantial amount than $3, but there is no
way I would
have applied if one of the first things I saw was a
membership fee. I
would have just assumed it was a way for someone to
make money and
moved on. Why not have a free membership for a period
of time (weeks
or months) and then charge for continued membership? I
dont know if
this would solve the problem you are trying to
address, but thought
i'd post it anyway.
Vale,
Livia Julia

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Romanic Languages
From:	"Claudius Salix Davianus" <salixdavianus@terra.es>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:27:53 +0100

>>In Europe, I was told there were/are nine Romance languages. To your
list we could add Catalan, the official language of Andorra and
Catalonia as well as Rhaeto-Romansch, one of the four official languages
of Confederationis Helveticae. Vale...<<

A further complete list of Romano-Languages is:

HISPANIA (Spain)
Gallego-Portugu�s
Astur-Leon�s
Castellano
Navarro-Aragon�s
Mozarabic (extinct)

GALLIA (France)
Standard French
Old French (extinct)
French Dialects ( Angevin, Norman, Picard, Walloon, Lorrain, Champenois, Poitevin)
Occitan (Gascon, Bearnaisse, Limousin)
Proven�al

HELVETIA (Switzerland)
Sursilvan
Engadine
Friulian
(each of them wiht its own stadirzad form)

ITALIA
Venetian
Friulian
North Italian Dialects
Toscano-StandardItalian
Calabrese-Napolitan
Sicilian

SARDINIA
Logudorian
Sassarian
Campidanian

EAST
Vegliot-Dalmata (extinct)
Aromanian (Albania, North Greece)
Megleno-Romanian
Romanian (Daco-Romanian, Moldavian)

Cl. Salix Davianus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Spyware / Away
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:57:49 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I have been notified by some friends in reenactment of the subject
program, which is apparently uploaded into your computer unbeknown to
you. The purpose of the program seems to be to monitor your computer
usage, as a sort of a market-targeting device. Outside of invading an
individual's privacy, I am informed that this type of a program takes up
a significant amount of space in the computer.

I do not have the ability to forward the message to the Main List, as it
has refused forwarded material before. However, I have saved the
letter, describing such. together with the procedure provided for
ridding one's computer of such a "spying" program. I should be pleased
to provide a copy of the information to anyone interested.

I will be away again for the weeked, and will return on Monday. If my
mailbox fills up, as it often does, try me again on Tuesday, when I will
hopefully have cleared my mailbox to some extent. Perhaps a better way
to deal wth this information would be to have someone more sophisticated
in the use of this related hardware to recieve the, and promulagate it
on the NR Announce List.

This problem does not affect me as the Webtv cannot collect such "sneak"
programs, or virus', however, I thought that there might be a chance
that someone on the NR List might be interested in this information.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Poor Taste
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:14:23 -0500 (EST)

Mistress Diana Aventina Moravia;

I suspect that the reason that Pompeia has not commented on this item,
is because she has indicated that she does not wish to deal with 'that
list' further. I honor her decison and have not made her aware of the
subject.

On one level, I agree that the comment was in poor taste, and was
probably meant as a silly attempt to direct attention to another area.

I agree with you that such a comment need not have been made, and having
been made should be withdrawn at least, and hopefully with an apology,
since it was made without the concurrence or previous related statement
of the subject. This situation I must presume, as I am fairly well
aquainted with the lady in question.

On another level the demand of Master Marinus, is an interesting one in
that he has taken a firm action, in regard to something that he sees as
an affront to the Citizens of Nova Roma and the "public morality." Like
Master Marinus, I shall be eager to see the legal outcome of this
venture. I believe that such a demand again raise the necessity fr a set
of Civil Laws which is always recognized as needed in such cases in the
past, and is promptly forgotted, when the crisis is past. The argument
that this Main List should still maintain some of the attributes of the
"Back Alley", I cannot agree with. I did not agree that the postings on
prostitution did anything to further Nova Roma, nor do I think the
recent actions / statements of ProPraetor Nerva have done much for NR
either. I did not join Nova Roma to be regaled by such material, nor do
I enjoy such.

Proponents of prostitution have never seen, as I have, the government
brothels maintained in Turkey for the use of thier military. The
misery, hopelessness, and lack of any pride whatsoever, among those poor
women, is an image that even after 20+ years I still retain clearly. In
both of the below cases, It was required for me, as a designated Shore
Patrol Petty Offcer, to inspect the area where the prostitutes lived and
"worked" to insure that no American Sailors were enjoying the fruits of
that opportunity. Much the same could be said for the brothels
established by the Shell Oil Refinery on the island of Curaco in the
Mediterranean. Drunkeness, fighting, and jealus beatings were a nightly
fare at such places. In Turkey the women were placed there as a
judicial punishment for thier conviction for indebtedness, and they
recieved a portion of each "transaction" as payment towards thier debt,
which was assumed by the state. I was assured by the Turkish
authorities that the women were "clean", and I cannot attest to the fact
that they may well have been desease free. In Curaco the prostitutes
were "imported" from the Mainland outh America, and were confined in a
fenced off camp for te pleasure of the refinery workers. Again , I was
assured by the Dutch authorities as to the cleanliness of the women, but
the outward appearance of thier personal state and that of thier
quarters belied that determination. However, outward physical filth,
lack of self-worth, filthy language, and filthy living conditions,
convinced me that postitution while in the eyes of some may have a spark
of daring and romamce, there is much to consider in the negative view.
These were the only instance that I saw, but other petty officers in
similar duty situations have described in horrible detail other very
similar areasof prostitution in other areas of Europe and the Near East.
My visits to the Far East and South America revealed similar situations,
of women drawn into prosttution because of the lure of unscrupulous men
or the promises of riches. There to languish and finally be discarded
when thier uselullness fades. I do not say here that such arrangements
are not legal in the areas where they are found. My comments to you
Mistess oravia, are in sympathy for such women who have found themselves
for whatever reason in such an environment, and I weep for thier obvious
misery, and hopelessness. Yes, I have seen the brothels and sexual
symbols carved into the stone of roadway cubs in Pompeii. However, from
my above experiences, in modern times, I should suspect that human
nature being what it is that very similar sitation were rife in the
ancient brothel areas as they are today. Yes, I have seen all this, at
first hand, but in my humble opinion Beneficarius Pompeia Cornelia
Strabo deserves no part of it in this enlightened micrnation where women
are the equal to men, and where I doubt seriously that ProPraetor Nerva
would have the "nerve" to say such in my company about her or any other
woman in our company or associated with it.

I seem to recall in my Roman studies, that Roman Women, particularly
those who were high-born, or who were in positions of "behind the
scenes" authority over thier family were much respected. Yes, I have
seen the protitution cells in Pompeii, and I have sat on the stone
couches therein. However, I do not think that a woman with the obvious
skills and past posirtions in Nova Roma as Pompeia has been elevated to
by the Citizens of Nova Roma would relate to such a place as the
brothels in Pompeii, nor do I think that she deserves that obvious lack
of dignity attributed to her by an NR Propraetor.

Further, were I her Paterfamilius, I think I would have something to
say, besides offering to pay the fine of the perpetrator. However,
Pater Sulla is, as others have indicated, his own man, and can make his
own decisions presumably.

However, I can assure you Mistress Monrovia, that were such a comment as
master Nerva has seen fit to broadcast to NR, about my Beneficarius
directed at my wife or with any lady that I happened to be with. Master
Nerva would be required to deal with a very ugly old man, who gets even
uglier when ladies are insulted in his presence. Further, had such a
epithet been directed against my wife, I can assure you that my efforts
to insure that such would not again occur, would be significant.

In closing, I understand that Beneficarius Pompeia Cornelia Strabo has a
very loving and devoted husband. I wonder what his response would be to
ProPraetor Nerva's unnecessary and questionable comment. I further
wonder what response ProPraetor Nerva would have were such a comment
directed against his very lovely and dignified wife. I suspect that it
just might be similar to my response, or at least, for the dignity of
his wife, I would hope that it would be.

Mistress Diana Moravia, it is always a pleasure to have a chance to talk
with you in regard to NR and yourself and Gens. I hope someday to be
able to meet you face-to-face and share even more Roman Cultural facets
that do not decend, in my view, into the ugliness of insulting behavior.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] On the lighter side!
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:47:16 -0000

Salvete,

While I was going through church history books over the last week or
so I learned that all confessions used to have to be made in public
at the early church services. In time this requirement was quickly
dropped because the confessions turned into forums of boasting. I can
just picture them!

Bless me for I am sinner!

1)This week I pitched my tent like Lot at Sodom by being waylayed at
the Inn Of The Nine Drawn Swords!

2)I drank no less than 20 tankereds of Wine, Ale and Mead! That
combination was the nectar of Beelzebub himself so his spirit must
have taken over my weak mind and body.

3)I gambled 100 gold Auries in a game of chance. Sinful though it
was, twas less than 1% of my families fortune so I felt not shame at
the time!

4) At that point my belly was growling for food whence I espied a
huge roast sizzeling in the hearth. Sinful with pride I so felt that
a man of my quality and stature need not wait so demanded it, did I!
Well up jumps this lout of a barbarian bellowing like the Minotaur Of
Crete it was his as he came crashing across the tables to throttle
me. Though drunk I was still quick with my blade, out manouvered that
piece of offal and quickly had him squealing for mercy. I said "I may
spare you dog! Do you renounce God or your gods, vermin! "Oh pray sir
I do! Spare me!" I spit him through like a goose so in that way hell
was assured for him! Like all bullies this barbarian had a few
lapdogs with him who I quickly dispatched with my blade also.

5) My final and most dreadful sin! With the nectar of Satan still in
my veins the demon of lust entered my body. As I was stumbling
through the streets the next morning I came upon 2 beautiful young
maidens singing and tending their flowers. I talked with them and
soon found that their old codger of a father was off on business. One
thing lead to another and before you knew it I had lead them from
virtue into sin!

Please forgive......

Interesting times I'd wager!

Valete bene,

Quintus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Poor Taste
From:	"lithia_cassia" <mscommunication@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:49:55 -0000

Salve Marcus,

I understand that you have had bad experiences with brothels, but not
everyone has. Some people have had great experiences with them. One
cannot judge a proffession on one man's opinion alone. I know
several people who have had bad experiences with their local grocery
store. Should we close down that proffession? I know many people
who suffer daily at their jobs, loathe their bosses, and feel very
degraded just by working at say, a fast food chain or a call center,
where customers and bosses alike make the day anything but
pleasureable. Maybe we should just close down all customer service
jobs as well? (Oh if only we could)

I completely agree with you that 'forced' prostitution is nothing any
civilized nation would permit, but realize that not all prostitution
is forced. If a man or woman wants to become a prostitute because
they feel that physical pleasure is where they excel, than who is
anyone to stop them?

> "Back Alley", I cannot agree with. I did not agree that the
postings on prostitution did anything to further Nova Roma, nor do I
think the recent actions / statements of ProPraetor Nerva have done
much for NR either. I did not join Nova Roma to be regaled by such
material, nor do I enjoy such.
>
> Proponents of prostitution have never seen, as I have, the
government
> brothels maintained in Turkey for the use of thier military. The
> misery, hopelessness, and lack of any pride whatsoever, among those
poor
> women, is an image that even after 20+ years I still retain
clearly. In
> both of the below cases, It was required for me, as a designated
Shore
> Patrol Petty Offcer, to inspect the area where the prostitutes
lived and
> "worked" to insure that no American Sailors were enjoying the
fruits of
> that opportunity. Much the same could be said for the brothels
> established by the Shell Oil Refinery on the island of Curaco in the
> Mediterranean. Drunkeness, fighting, and jealus beatings were a
nightly
> fare at such places. In Turkey the women were placed there as a
> judicial punishment for thier conviction for indebtedness, and they
> recieved a portion of each "transaction" as payment towards thier
debt,
> which was assumed by the state. I was assured by the Turkish
> authorities that the women were "clean", and I cannot attest to the
fact
> that they may well have been desease free. In Curaco the prostitutes
> were "imported" from the Mainland outh America, and were confined
in a
> fenced off camp for te pleasure of the refinery workers. Again , I
was
> assured by the Dutch authorities as to the cleanliness of the
women, but
> the outward appearance of thier personal state and that of thier
> quarters belied that determination. However, outward physical
filth,
> lack of self-worth, filthy language, and filthy living conditions,
> convinced me that postitution while in the eyes of some may have a
spark
> of daring and romamce, there is much to consider in the negative
view.
> These were the only instance that I saw, but other petty officers in
> similar duty situations have described in horrible detail other very
> similar areasof prostitution in other areas of Europe and the Near
East.
> My visits to the Far East and South America revealed similar
situations,
> of women drawn into prosttution because of the lure of
unscrupulous men
> or the promises of riches. There to languish and finally be
discarded
> when thier uselullness fades. I do not say here that such
arrangements
> are not legal in the areas where they are found. My comments to you
> Mistess oravia, are in sympathy for such women who have found
themselves
> for whatever reason in such an environment, and I weep for thier
obvious
> misery, and hopelessness.

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Withdraw from elections
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:34:35 +0100

Salve Ambrosius Silvanius Epulones,

The following is definitely a pep talk:
I can understand that you don't want to run for AEDILIS CURULIS, but why
don't you candidate for something else then? Your a clever guy, it seems a
shame if you drop out of the elections totally.

>#1 -I'm a little known commoditity
Not true either!! Your shamrock email address stands out and your presence
is certainly felt in a positive way here!

Vale and I hope that your reconsider!
Diana

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Withdraw from elections
From:	"Frank & K.C." <shamrock@cros.net>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 20:17:42 -0000

I have decided after discussions with my family , gens members , and
after congratulating Diane Moravia Aventina for admiting a mistake, I
realize that I really don't want to follow thru with this entry.
#1 -I'm a little known commoditity and don't really like this forum,
and this truly is Nova Roma, at the present time.
#2 - I did not realize that the description of Curule Aedule was so
specific in regards to enforcing the law . There are so many
desparados here that I just don't think I have the "nuts " to carry
out the position. I've never aspired to looking for clues, subjects
and perpatrators of crimes to the Republic. I'll leave that fantasy
to the real police. It's not that I don't like police , its that I
like em better when they're not around. And that is the last thing I
want to be when I grow up in NR.
#3 - I think my talent is best suited developing a strong Gens
where we can enjoy our activities far from the center of the Empire
and in a friendly place in Ohio and under the guise of our Propreator
who is a civil, easy going REALIST. I will still carry out my role
and duty of Epulones , quietly, as I really don't get turned on
seeing my name.
And finally , as Curule Aedile ,I had wanted to put forward to the
Senate a suggestion to build interest and participation at events by
awearding each citizen that attends some arbitrary number (say 3) NR
points for their support. Maybe if the Morality police tire of
chasing the bad guys they might consider this idea.
Thanks for listening and hopefully I can meet most of you at next
summers events.

Vale,

Ambrosius Silvanius Epulones

"running for the hills"

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Coffee Rules
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:40:16 -0500 (EST)

How about those who are over sixty and do not drink coffee? Since I do
not fit into your "coffee" categories, and I would suppose there might
be a few others. perhaps you should also consider tea drinkers, "Coke"
drinkers and those few us us who enjoy Chili-Con-Carne and Hot Tamales
for breakfast. My wife has indicated her thought that such puts me in a
unique category, and so I introduce such as perhaps a "special group"
with VERY special needs (Grin!!!!!!!).

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Poor Taste
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:18:05 -0800

Oh yeah I forgot. Ok execpt for the fun girls!

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Poor Taste

In a message dated 11/7/02 12:14:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
alexious@earthlink.net writes:

> Remember if you decide to try the back alley, no toga's allowed.
>

Except for the fun girls. How else would we know their occupation?

Fabius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ludi Plebeii - Quiz 4
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:16:45 +0000 (GMT)

Salvete!

QUIZ

Who knows most on Ancient Rome?

Very simple: five questions each day, some multiple
choice and some not; some difficult ones and some easy
ones�

Questions covering all aspects of Roma Antiqua:
military, history, literature, �

Send your answers to consulromanus@yahoo.com (don�t
forget to include you Nova Roma name), putting �QUIZ�
in the subject line.

The results will be posted each day on the main list,
so participate as much as you can!

Answers to the previous questions cannot be sent
anymore!

-----

The correct answers of quiz 3:
Ruling from 361 to 363 CE, this emperor initiated a
pagan revival... (Julianus)

The conflict over which town sparked of the First
Punic War? (Messana)

How do you write 1000 in Roman numerals? (M)

How do you write 151 in Roman numerals? (CLI)

The first emperor to embrace Christianity,...
(Constantine)

-----
Points so far:
Sextus Apollonius Scipio � 15
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus � 15
Julilla Sempronia Magna � 15
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus � 15
Spurius Postumius Tubertus � 13
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix � 13
Titus Labienus Fortunatus � 10
Marcus Arminius Maior � 10
Gaius Basilicatus Agricola � 10
Quintus Lanius Paulinus � 9,5
Marcus Octavius Germanicus � 9
Lithia Cassia � 9
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus � 8
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus � 5
Aulus Octavius Serenus � 4

-----

Here are today's questions:

***************

1. This notorious tyrant who squandered state
resources on orgies for the Roman aristocracy ruled
from 37 to 41 CE. He was responsible for several acts
of bloody violence and came to power after killing his
father. The judgment of history seems to be that he
was worthless as an emperor. Who was he?

2. What did the Romans call Spain?
a. Hispania
b. Britannia
c. Dacia
d. Parthia

3. What does �salve� mean?

4. What does MCMLXXXII mean?

5. This proponent of Christian orthodoxy outlawed
paganism in the empire, but nevertheless ended up
excommunicated from the Church by Ambrose of Milan
after he had thousands of Thessalonians put to death
for killing a barbarian military leader. Who was he?

***************

Take part in the quiz, and see who knows most on
Ancient Rome!!

Valete bene

=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
----------
Aedilis Plebis
Quintilianus for Consul! http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
Octavius for Censor! http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor
Serapio for Quaestor! http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/Serapio_for_Quaestor.html
Scipio for Quaestor! http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Quaestorship

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Poor Taste
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:09:20 -0800

Avete Omnes,

Maybe he just needs to try another brothel!

Lets face it some of us are just too sensitive to be in the back alley. Audens was there for a time but he did not agree with it. Fine that is certainly his choice. Personally I remember the story that Dexippus wrote about Audens getting stripped searched in the Vatican. I have that post around here somewhere! It was absolutely hilarious!

I am proud of the back alley and the service it provides Nova Roma. I believe it serves an important function in Nova Roma. Remember Romans were not always stuffed up aristocrats, many a Roman enjoyed a rip roaring laugh and that is something that is almost guaranteed to happen in the Back Alley. Remember if you decide to try the back alley, no toga's allowed.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: lithia_cassia
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:49 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Poor Taste

Salve Marcus,

I understand that you have had bad experiences with brothels, but not
everyone has. Some people have had great experiences with them. One
cannot judge a proffession on one man's opinion alone. I know
several people who have had bad experiences with their local grocery
store. Should we close down that proffession? I know many people
who suffer daily at their jobs, loathe their bosses, and feel very
degraded just by working at say, a fast food chain or a call center,
where customers and bosses alike make the day anything but
pleasureable. Maybe we should just close down all customer service
jobs as well? (Oh if only we could)

I completely agree with you that 'forced' prostitution is nothing any
civilized nation would permit, but realize that not all prostitution
is forced. If a man or woman wants to become a prostitute because
they feel that physical pleasure is where they excel, than who is
anyone to stop them?

> "Back Alley", I cannot agree with. I did not agree that the
postings on prostitution did anything to further Nova Roma, nor do I
think the recent actions / statements of ProPraetor Nerva have done
much for NR either. I did not join Nova Roma to be regaled by such
material, nor do I enjoy such.
>
> Proponents of prostitution have never seen, as I have, the
government
> brothels maintained in Turkey for the use of thier military. The
> misery, hopelessness, and lack of any pride whatsoever, among those
poor
> women, is an image that even after 20+ years I still retain
clearly. In
> both of the below cases, It was required for me, as a designated
Shore
> Patrol Petty Offcer, to inspect the area where the prostitutes
lived and
> "worked" to insure that no American Sailors were enjoying the
fruits of
> that opportunity. Much the same could be said for the brothels
> established by the Shell Oil Refinery on the island of Curaco in the
> Mediterranean. Drunkeness, fighting, and jealus beatings were a
nightly
> fare at such places. In Turkey the women were placed there as a
> judicial punishment for thier conviction for indebtedness, and they
> recieved a portion of each "transaction" as payment towards thier
debt,
> which was assumed by the state. I was assured by the Turkish
> authorities that the women were "clean", and I cannot attest to the
fact
> that they may well have been desease free. In Curaco the prostitutes
> were "imported" from the Mainland outh America, and were confined
in a
> fenced off camp for te pleasure of the refinery workers. Again , I
was
> assured by the Dutch authorities as to the cleanliness of the
women, but
> the outward appearance of thier personal state and that of thier
> quarters belied that determination. However, outward physical
filth,
> lack of self-worth, filthy language, and filthy living conditions,
> convinced me that postitution while in the eyes of some may have a
spark
> of daring and romamce, there is much to consider in the negative
view.
> These were the only instance that I saw, but other petty officers in
> similar duty situations have described in horrible detail other very
> similar areasof prostitution in other areas of Europe and the Near
East.
> My visits to the Far East and South America revealed similar
situations,
> of women drawn into prosttution because of the lure of
unscrupulous men
> or the promises of riches. There to languish and finally be
discarded
> when thier uselullness fades. I do not say here that such
arrangements
> are not legal in the areas where they are found. My comments to you
> Mistess oravia, are in sympathy for such women who have found
themselves
> for whatever reason in such an environment, and I weep for thier
obvious
> misery, and hopelessness.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ludi Plebeii - photo 2
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:10:39 +0000 (GMT)

Salvete!

A new and exciting contest, offered by Aedilis Plebis
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix:

PHOTO CONTEST

A very simple contest: 10 photos of Roman-era
monuments to recognize.

10 days long one photo will be posted each day. The
photo will contain a whole monument, or a very large
part of it.

You can participate by sending an email to
consulromanus@yahoo.com (put �PHOTO� in the subject
line), with your Nova Roma name and the correct
answer.

Today's new photo can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/consulromanus/photo.html

Different kind of answers are possible, as shown in
this example:
A photo of the Pantheon can be described as:
Pantheon
Pantheon, Rome
Temple of Agrippa
Pantheon, Italy
Agrippa�s temple (Pantheon)
�
These are all correct answers; just make clear that
you recognize the monument on the photo!

All correct answers will be put together each day, and
my totally innocent two year old neighbour will pick
out a winner at random.

Everyone�s results will be presented each day.

*********
Today's winner:
Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili

Congratulations!!

All others who have also submitted a correct answer:
Tiberius Annaeus Otho
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Jullila Sempronia Magna
Spurius Postumius Tubertus
Titus Labienus Fortunatus
Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili
Alexander Tarquitius Sulla

The correct answer:
Traianus' column; on Traianus' Forum

*********

So participate as much as possible to become the best
and greatest �monument-specialist�!

Valete bene

=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
----------
Aedilis Plebis
Quintilianus for Consul! http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
Octavius for Censor! http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor
Serapio for Quaestor! http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/Serapio_for_Quaestor.html
Scipio for Quaestor! http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Quaestorship

__________________________________________________
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Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Coffee Rules
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 22:21:33 +0100

Salve Scipio,

[>] > I disagree with the coffee rule saying that the older we get the more
coffee we
[>] > drink. The exact contrary happens!! The older you get and the less you
get out
[>] > at night...especially if you get some children. Those little angels
wake up the
[>] > matter what at 7AM, Sundays too, and you have no other choice than to
wake up
[>] > as well. :O)

So then you are on your third cup sometime around 8:00 AM? :o) That 7am on
Sunday thing sounds positively painful. And actually, you saw me on a Sunday
morning. Well, really it was about 13:00 but since I slept until 12:00, it
was still 'morning to me :o)

vale!
Diana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Coffee Rules
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:10:08 -0800 (PST)

I have a 2 "Coke" minimum before traversing the ML.
MBA
jmath669642reng@webtv.net wrote:How about those who are over sixty and do not drink coffee? Since I do
not fit into your "coffee" categories, and I would suppose there might
be a few others. perhaps you should also consider tea drinkers, "Coke"
drinkers and those few us us who enjoy Chili-Con-Carne and Hot Tamales
for breakfast. My wife has indicated her thought that such puts me in a
unique category, and so I introduce such as perhaps a "special group"
with VERY special needs (Grin!!!!!!!).

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Law & Morality (WAS: Action & Responsibility)
From:	"jamiekjohnston" <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:36:08 -0000

C. Fabia Livia has wisely pointed out to me that my posts can often
be extremely long, and that casual readers might benefit from an
abstract to help them see whether they're interested in reading on or
not, so here is the abstract:

--- After greetings and preliminaries, I agree to address the
question of the relationship between law and morality. Responding to
a comment of Minucius Scaevola's, I question whether the law must
necessarily punish a person responsible for an undesirable outcome. I
suggest seven ways in which any given punishment might be justified,
and then, setting out a hypothetical case, consider how these seven
approaches might be applied and what the results might be. Finally I
invite others to express their views. ---

C. Minucius Scaevola wrote:

> Salve, Jamie (do you have a Roman name?)

I haven't yet, as my citizenship is pending and can't legally be
granted until after the end of election season. I'll let everyone
know if and when.

Well, then, the main gist of your last message on this subject was, I
think, that we ought to tackle the question of the relationship
between law and morality, and how the ideas of moral responsibility
I've been advocating ought to relate to the law. Initially I was
unwilling, not because I don't find it interesting but because I
thought it was quite a long way away from the original topic. But it
is an important question, especially in light of some of the debate
which has been going on recently about other more practical matters.
It's also because of its relevance to these matters that I've
postponed suggesting we take it off the list, because although it's
only the two of us at the moment, others may feel they want to join
in.

You commented, 'once you _are_ responsible, and the law _does_ take
cognizance of the fact, then you _must_ be punished according to the
measure. There does not seem to be any space in the above discussion
to afford the /de minimis non curat lex/ principle; you're either
responsible, to whatever degree, or you're not.'

Is it necessarily true that the law must inflict punishment on
everyone responsible for anything to any degree? I think this depends
on the basis on which the law is founded. Most, if not all, nations
in the wider world have legal systems which are founded not on a
single, unitary philosophy of morality and justice, but on various
different principles, and the same can be said of their penal
systems. A penalty can be justified on various grounds: it is to
protect society from a dangerous individual; it is to protect an
individual from himself; it is to reform an individual; it is to
discourage others from committing the same crime; it is to discourage
the convict from re-offending; it is to provide expression and
release for society's desire for revenge; it is to force the offender
to make a contribution to society, or to the injured party, to
compensate for his offence. These are the ones I can think of at the
moment. I do not include anything about morality, because to
say 'this action was immoral and must be punished' is not in itself a
justification: we then ask, why must an immoral action be punished,
and why must the state do it? This question must be answered by a
subsidiary answer like the ones above.

But if a penal system isn't founded on a single philosophy of
justice, then there is really no point in discussing whether any
penalty is just or unjust, because there are no agreed principles
according to which the issue can be decided, and the decision will be
essentially arbitrary, depending on the views of whoever makes the
decision. Moreover, some of the answers I suggested above cannot
apply to some punishments. For instance, one cannot seriously justify
the imposition of a death penalty on the basis that it will reform
the person concerned, and neither can it be fully justified by saying
that it protects society or that it discourages the convict from re-
offended, because there are other ways of doing that which, while
more expensive, could be considered more humane.

So then, let us consider the hypothetical case I suggested in my last
message: Person A has heard on the news that a convict in another
country has been sentenced to death. He does not make any effort to
prevent that sentence from being carried out. The convict in the
other county is executed, and the state in which A lives uses my
suggested procedure for determining how responsible A is for the
death of that convict (I don't know why the state does this - perhaps
the convict was also a citizen of this state). Applying the
procedure, they find that A was indeed to some extent responsible for
the death of the convict, and they must now decide what to do about
it. Their decision will be determined by the philosophy which lies
behind their penal system (I assume this to be an ideal state in
which a single philosophy underlies the whole of the law).

1. If the intention of punishment in this state is to protect society
from a dangerous individual, well, there would be very little they
could do, as any attempt to limit A's freedom would make it even more
difficult for him to assist any person who might be in danger of
death in the future. They might indeed consider that A is not in any
normal sense 'dangerous', as all he did was nothing, and people do
this all the time.

2. If they wanted to protect A from himself on the grounds that my
failing to act he might allow himself to come into danger, there is
also not very much they could do about this, as it is true of
everyone, and as they couldn't easily make him act if he didn't want
to act; moreover, it is likely that in the case of danger to himself
he would be more inclined to act, and would find it easier.

3. If they wished to reform him, then he could be obliged to take
lessons in ethics according to a set syllabus.

4. If they wished to discourage others from committing the same
offence, then they would presumably inflict the harshest possible
penalty on A, or at any rate the harshest penalty they felt was worth
the cost to the state of inflicting it.

5. If they wished to discourage A from re-offending, they could
hardly kill, incarcerate or fine him, as these would all be
detrimental to his ability to avoid committing the same offence
again. They could reprimand him, or threaten him (though threats
would be ineffective because he would know they would react in just
the same way the next time he did it. Or rather, didn't do it), but
that's about all.

6. If they wanted to give expression and release to society's desire
for revenge, they would inflict punishment on him proportional to
society's sense of outrage at his offence. This would most likely be
minimal, as a large number of other citizens would also be guilty of
the same crime (though admittedly hypocrisy is not unknown in human
beings).

7. If they wanted to force him to make recompense to society or to
the convict's family, then they would presumably impose on him fines
or civic duties proportional to the loss suffered by society. If they
were literal about it, they might insist that he father a child
immediately.

My personal belief is that the purpose of punishment should be the
protection of society in general, its particular members and the
order and integrity of the state. I do not believe that the purpose
of law is to enforce morality, because I do not accept the right of
any person or group of people to impose their moral views on others
by force (though I entirely support the right of every person to
judge others by their own moral standards, for otherwise what use are
moral standards at all?)

I would be interested to know the views of others on this matter, and
in particular those of Minucius Scaevola on which of the above seven
approaches he personally would take, or whether he has another which
I have failed to notice.

Many thanks to those who have given their time to reading this
message,

Jamie


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Diana for Tribuna
From:	serenusnova@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:39:50 EST

Our Plebeian interests won't be served better than by you noble lady !
You go girl !

A Octavius Serenus

PS : Laureatus sends his love.


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Coffee Rules
From:	"aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 20:22:41 -0000

I'm for tea: Earl Grey, hot, with cream and sugar. I could go for
two or three cups right now, in lieu of rakhtagino (or however it's
spelled).

---
Renata

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Coffee Rules
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 22:03:37 +0100

Salvete Omnes,

I disagree with the coffee rule saying that the older we get the more coffee we
drink. The exact contrary happens!! The older you get and the less you get out
at night...especially if you get some children. Those little angels wake up the
matter what at 7AM, Sundays too, and you have no other choice than to wake up
as well. :O)

Valete,

> How about those who are over sixty and do not drink coffee?

--
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
French Translator

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Subject:	RES: [Nova-Roma] Fee for joining?
From:	"Titus Arminius Genialis" <tagenialis@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:20:20 -0200

Salvete,

I agree completely with L. Faustus and I think most of you do too.
It is simply RIDICULOUS asking non-citizens to pay for getting their
citizenship.
Our need is to GET NEW CITIZENS, and not to make it MORE DIFFICULT for them
to be novaromans.

Valete,

Titus Arminius Genialis.
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Lucius Arminius Faustus [mailto:lafaustus@yahoo.com.br]
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 7 de novembro de 2002 07:38
Para: LISTONA
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Fee for joining?

Salve,

I don�t usually annoy you with my opinion for nothing, but sometimes I
really don�t believe in what I read on that list.

PAY just for JOIN?

Well, we do have problems to the payment of the taxes from the old and
compreensive citizens, we would put this height for the newbies also?

And seems that there is people that still forget that NR is INTERNATIONAL.
If sending US$12 is a problem (I�d say 'a pain in the XXX' ) imagine just
US$3 !!!

Why do we prevent Trolls to enter? I really don�t have the definitive
answer, but paying for join is against the Law... of good sense!

Vale bene in pacem deorum,

L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.

Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html

Se de �cio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,

Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...

Satira Quarta, Hor�cio

---------------------------------
Yahoo! GeoCities
Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas f�ceis de usar, espa�o de sobra e
acess�rios.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Local Group Idea...
From:	CSSWarspite@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:12:06 EST

Salve
As a new member and with a few more on the way in my area, I think it
would a very good idea. This would allow for more organized events as well as
growth. Also it would make for a more fertile recruiting ground, to show a
more solid locale group to potential members.
OK I realize I am new but I have been re enacting for about 22 years now
various time periods and have such an organization must helpful as well as
enjoyable.
Marcus Incendium
AKA Scott H

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Fee for joining?
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:30:32 -0800

Avete Omnes,

I understand your disagreement. This is why I created the poll in the first place. I want to know the preference of the People before I promulgate this law. I do not have a preference in the three choices given. The one that wins the poll will be the one that will be incorporated into the proposed law, and will be presented to the People in the December summons of the Comitia Populi.

But I stand by my previous posts that it is very common that not for profit corporations charge fees to join. It might be distasteful to you, and that is understandable, I really do sympathize. But I would rather take steps to protect the voice of the People who are already citizens than to have the system abused by citizens who willfully manipulate and abuse the system.

I would really like to know the scope of this problem and again I would really like Tribune Gn. Salix Astur, candidate for Praetor to address this issue on the ML publically. I believe the people of Nova Roma have a right to know about this. I do not think I am the only one interested.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul
----- Original Message -----
From: Titus Arminius Genialis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 1:20 PM
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Fee for joining?

Salvete,

I agree completely with L. Faustus and I think most of you do too.
It is simply RIDICULOUS asking non-citizens to pay for getting their
citizenship.
Our need is to GET NEW CITIZENS, and not to make it MORE DIFFICULT for them
to be novaromans.

Valete,

Titus Arminius Genialis.
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Lucius Arminius Faustus [mailto:lafaustus@yahoo.com.br]
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 7 de novembro de 2002 07:38
Para: LISTONA
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Fee for joining?

Salve,

I don�t usually annoy you with my opinion for nothing, but sometimes I
really don�t believe in what I read on that list.

PAY just for JOIN?

Well, we do have problems to the payment of the taxes from the old and
compreensive citizens, we would put this height for the newbies also?

And seems that there is people that still forget that NR is INTERNATIONAL.
If sending US$12 is a problem (I�d say 'a pain in the XXX' ) imagine just
US$3 !!!

Why do we prevent Trolls to enter? I really don�t have the definitive
answer, but paying for join is against the Law... of good sense!

Vale bene in pacem deorum,

L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.

Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html

Se de �cio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,

Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...

Satira Quarta, Hor�cio

---------------------------------
Yahoo! GeoCities
Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas f�ceis de usar, espa�o de sobra e
acess�rios.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Open Letter to the Praetor (Third Attempt)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:24:12 +0000 (GMT)

I'm very sorry to those who may feel I'm getting boring about this, and I hope no one considers that I am trying to make trouble for anyone unnecessarily, but I feel I must persist with this matter. This is not so much because it is extremely important in itself as because I don't feel I can allow others to feel that magistrates can, for whatever reason, get away with ignoring official petitions made to them by those under their care, and I don't feel I can allow magistrates to feel that they can get away with this.

So, to get to the point, it is now three weeks and one day since I made a formal and public request for the Praetors (there were two of them then, of course) to turn their attention to a certain matter and give a ruling on it one way or another. I understand there has been much upheaval in the state since then, and the remaining Praetor is extremely busy, but there can surely be no excuse for allowing a formal petition to go not merely unanswered but unacknowledged for three weeks.

So, once more, I ask that the Praetor take note of my request (message 3514 in the archives, with references in message 3537), and state whether he upholds or denies my request, or, failing that, to give his reasons for delaying his response and to state when he expects to be able to give an answer.

My thanks to the Praetor in advance, and to the other members of this list for their patience with this matter which has dragged on far longer than I intended.

Jamie

www.strategikon.org

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Poor Taste
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:13:56 EST

In a message dated 11/7/02 12:14:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
alexious@earthlink.net writes:

> Remember if you decide to try the back alley, no toga's allowed.
>

Except for the fun girls. How else would we know their occupation?

Fabius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Me for Tribuna
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:31:17 +0100

Salve Octavii,

Thanks for the promotion A Octavius Serenus!

and Gnaeus Octavius Noricus:
[>] > Since when do we Octavii have "Plebeian interests"? ;-)

LOL! Yes, I am certainly more of plebeian type then a Patrician ;-) It must
have something to do with me growing up in Brooklyn. <grumbles that her
grandparents didn't move more West...>

Valete and good night!
Diana Moravia Aventina

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Diana for Tribuna
From:	"Gnaeus Octavius Noricus" <cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:25:10 +0100

A Octavius Serenus wrote:
> Our Plebeian interests won't be served better than by <snip>

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus respondit:

Salve Brother!
Since when do we Octavii have "Plebeian interests"? ;-)
(Absolutely nothing against you, Diana! On the contrary!)

Optime valete!
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:38:18 -0000

AVE CONSVL SVLLA

I sent my vote, but I have some doubt.

I don't think any of the three solutions is the right one.

-Paying for citizenship would lower the number of new incoming
citizens.

-Banning free e-mail providers would nearly get the same result.
"Ok, you can become a citizen of Nova Roma, but you have to pay an e-
mail provider because we don't consider you free one."
My e-mail provider works well, and it is free, as well as the ones of
many other citizens.

-A telephone call to each new citizen would be too expensive for our
Treasury. We have a few money and we must use it to reach financial
stability.

However, the fourth option says "Things run well as they are", and
this is not the case. Without any doubt things must be changed.

Isn't it possible to realize Diana Moravia's proposal?
Within the end of the year (for those who join Nova Roma in December,
within following December) new citizens should send by e-mail a
scanned copy of a personal document (Photo + data: therefore even the
supermarket-card would be ok) to the Censores.
It isn't impossible to have something scanned today.

OPTIME VALE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Candidacy for Rogator
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:50:08 -0800 (PST)

Salvete omnes--

After careful thought, I come before you today to
announce my candidacy for the position of Rogator in
Nova Roma.

I believe that the practice of voting is one of the
highest privileges and most vital duties in which a
citizen can engage. In my macronational life, I vote
regularly in every local and national election. In my
Nova Roman life, I wish to serve you, the people of
Nova Roma, in this way. I have been looking at this
position, in fact, for several months.

If elected, I swear to complete the length of my
allotted term, barring unforeseen circumstances, and I
swear to serve you honorably and accurately, to the
best of my ability. I am not tied to any clique or
faction, and I will be impartial in fulfilling the
duties of this office, should I be elected to serve.
I honor the government, constitution, and people of
Nova Roma as I do those same bodies in my
macronational life.

I hope that I will earn the chance to serve you, and
should that not be the case, then I will wish the best
of good fortune to the victors! I remain

Respectfully yours,

Renata Corva Cantrix
Scriba Praetoris

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: VENATIONES - 3rd day
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:59:15 -0000

AVE TIBERI CLAVDI LVCENTI VINDEX

I am really sorry for the combat. These things will happen!

> 3)Most noble Constantinus, is there a prize for the venator with
the most
> winsomely boyish sense of humour?

Well... I don't think such a prize has been created... but I can
think about!

> 4)Can I place an ad in the 'for sale' section of Acta Diurna?

Oh, i was already thinking about sales. Citizen will be able to buy
more than one fighter or even sell him/her to other citizens.
However, this is a project for the future. ;)

> "For sale: Experienced Venator. Achaian appearance, slight build,
has most
> of own teeth. Walks with a limp. Might make a suitable childrens'
> entertainer. Genuine reason for sale. Offers to: Tiberius Claudius
Lecentius
> Vindex, Provincia Britannia. No time wasters."

Hey, that's nice! Is it an auction? How much does he costs? :)

BENE VALE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
***Candidate for Quaestor***
Scriba Aedilis Plebis (Ti.Apo.Cicatrix)
Legatvs Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs
Scriba Translationvm Primvs Academiae Thvles
--------------------
VISIT MY WEBSITE
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/Serapio_for_Quaestor.html
***Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for CONSVL***
For Integrity, Accountability and Reform
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Withdraw from elections
From:	"Frank & K.C." <shamrock@cros.net>
Date:	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 20:49:34 -0000

Salve Diana,

Thank you for your response in fact I was just ready to get back to
looking for more Epulones references. As I once said here , I only
stopped in as a break during my studies , and boda - boom i stayed to
long. My eyes have always been bigger than my plate and its the best
all the way around. No need for a pep talk, I've got plenty to do.
However ,I really did mean what I said about this forum . Benjamin
Franklin ( Yes Cassius Julianus I can drag him out to ;), once said
something about family and friends are like fish, they smell bad
after three days or something close to that. Well sometimes this list
does also. Yes there are some fine people here , but I have a very
low threshold to a-- h---- and there are plenty of those here!
Besides in my old group I fought for 30 years with wooden weapons, I
could take my frustrations out on the a-- h---- there by beating the
heck out of them. I cannot handle a pen as well as sword! Thanks
again Diana maybe one day we shall meet.

A. Silvanius Virbius

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