Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Philosophy List?
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:44:18 +0100

Salvete,

Is there a Nova Roma list dedicated to discussing Philosophy? I looked on
the website and didnt see one. It's not for me (philosophically
deficient...) but for a fellow Nova Roman, Mercurius Apollonius, who is not
on this main list, but is has been studying Philosophy for quite awhile. I
am trying to get him 'active' on at least one list.

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Local Group Idea... Part II
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:52:17 EST

In a message dated 11/11/2002 8:06:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wlr107@yahoo.com writes:

> I completely agree on the three tiered system. Where I think we need
> to really focus is that we still must require any level of
> the "colonies" to still be subordned to the privincial governor. Each
> can still hold their own events, accounts, ectera, but they are still
> (I would think, and hope) required to coordinate witht eh governor in
> all things...those governors can then help the several "colonies"
> coordinate activities, meetings, events.

I feel that it would be appropriate for local groups to be subordinate to the
Provincial Governor. It will in many ways make the Provincial Governor a
much more important position than it already is, and demand more
responsibility.

Local groups could file quarterly reports with their respective Provincial
leadership, and answer to them, just as the Governor answers to the Senate.

It is an awesome opportunity for Nova Roma.

G. Modius Athanasius


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] simple ideas for local meetings
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:54:34 EST

In a message dated 11/11/2002 9:46:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
scipio_apollonius@mailservice.ms writes:

> May be we could create a list dedicated to this project?

I like this idea. Should someone simply make a list, or should we wait for
the new administration to make a decision?

G. Modius Athanasius


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Local Group Idea... Part II
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:57:05 EST

In a message dated 11/11/2002 12:28:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CSSWarspite@aol.com writes:

> How about the groups Region how would this be figured out.Like the SCA
> with zip codes or by counties, these four counties belong to colony "X" .Or
>
> by number of members resideing in that area?Like My wife and my self dont
> know how citzens reside in our area,((Would be nice to meet some
> others))This
> would help in organizing what colonies are where and how many citzens are
> around that area.

I would think it would depend on the area. Some areas could support more
local groups while others less.

Example, in Ohio there could -- in theory -- be a local group in Columbus,
Toledo, Cincinnati, Cleveland. While in a very rural state like North or
South Dakota they could only support a couple.

G. Modius Athanasius


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Local Group Idea... Part II
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:01:07 EST

In a message dated 11/11/2002 5:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
marcus.flavius@bigpond.com writes:

> Speaking of needlessly administrative, why are we discussing structure at
> all? Why not just encourage cives to get out there and interact with other
> cives? Do you need sanction from your macronational government to talk to
> your neighbour about getting together for a street party?

Yes, I think so. One of the goals I would like to see happen with local
groups is public ritual to the Old Gods. Its hard to do this without some
guidelines for local groups (which would -- imo -- include a congregational
element).

G. Modius Athanasius


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] local meetings
From:	Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia <arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:03:35 -0800 (PST)

I love this idea!

I have hosted similar gatherings, with various
attempts at traditional Roman cooking, some very
successful and others, not so much. But I will be
happy to continue to arrange these, and other types of
Roman get-togethers.

Such a great idea!
Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia


***********
Message: 24
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:21:31 +0100
From: "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Subject: simple ideas for local meetings

Salvete,

I think that it was Quintus Lanius Paulinus who
mentioned that he
organizes
Roman nights, where people come over and watch a Roman
movie and chat.
This
is a great idea and very simple to implement. You can
buy some
inexpensive
drinks and chips and make a little Party of it. It
doesn't have to cost
more
than 40 euros. Or someone can always have a 'bring
your own drinks'
party.

Actually I am going to do this in January. And I may
attempt actually
cooking something :-p I'm expecting about 10 people,
which is perfect.
I am
also organizing a day out to the Gallo-Roman day which
takes place at
Aubechies Archeological site in August. They have a
reenactment of a
Roman
ritual, one of the local Legios, a Roman meal, music,
etc. I am hoping
that
my Gens situation will be settled once and for all
long before then. It
is
hard to 'recruit' if the citizenships remain
unapproved by a 'missing'
Paterfamilias... If the people attending these
activities want to join
NR,
they will most likely want to be in Gens Moravia,
bascially they know
me for
years already through my Pagan activities.

I have access to many people, because I am sociable
gal :-), but a good
place to advertize would be the local library,
bookstores, museum, or
university. An announcement could also be made in any
type of local
tourist
magazine or website. Besides that, I am pretty lucky
to have 3 Nova
Romans
that don't live so far away from me, all of them
coincidentally in Gens
Apollonia: Cicatrix, Scipio and Mercurius.

Scipio said: > The more I read about this idea and the
more I like it!!
Scipio and I had been discussing NR type activities in
August at the NR
Rally, so I was not at all surprised to find his
enthusiastic email
about
this :-)

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina




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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Local Group Idea... Part II
From:	CSSWarspite@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:11:11 EST

Marcus
I have no contact with anyone else in my area, how would I know how to
contact someone? I think making small areas with a central gathering point,
which is organized
and answerable to the provincial Governor a good thing. This would also allow
an exchange of ideas/philsphys easier plus people who are not contected to
the Internet able to enjoy meeting others who are like minded. Locale groups
can make contact by displys,events and advertising.Also it would make putting
things together like a Roman days or such easier.
My point is this.NovaRoma could in effect be doing things that many small
groups cant or wont do.Plus build a rather intresting socity that isnt just
on the internet with a few people getting together here and there.This would
put people together and would also end the line of voter fraud that I have
seen on the list.

Marcus Ambrosia Incendium


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:41:34 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...> wrote:
> Roman BriefpapierSalvete,
>
> At this time, I would like to throw in my 2 Euro cents in support of our
> current Senior Consul, Marcus Octavius Germanicus who is now a
candidate for
> Censor.

I do not feel good about it.
One reason is no one should be handed the censorship unopposed.

Secondly, he is friendly with hostile ex-citizens and has apparently
discussed NR business with them.

Third, he already practically runs NR by hosting the NR website and
the voting machinery on his own servers. Conflict of interest? Damn
right. NR should either ban hosts from holding office....or spend
some money and have a disinterested third party run things on the
virtual end.

G. Cassius Nerva




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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Local Group Idea... Part II
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:05:12 EST

In a message dated 11/11/2002 5:50:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
christer.edling@telia.com writes:

> Could it be possible to give the Governor the power of intercessio
> (and maybe add it to the Constitution) against "local groups" and the
> "local group" the obligation to give the Governor, let's say ten days
> to declare his intercessio, before they execute their decision.
>
> I think that intercessio is a beautiful concept, because it tends to
> make "both" parties cooperate. The Governor will loose Dignitas if he
> is seen to be unable to handle lesser magistrati without using a veto
> and the lesser magistrati will fear the veto. This will hopefully
> lead to cooperation and compromise.
>
> Still the Governor who has the responsibility to have the "greater"
> view _do_ have the possibility to veto a proposal that he thinks will
> disturb the Provincia in some way.
>
> This way the "local group" will be free to elect their own leadership
> and actions and the Governor will still have quite a strong control
> over the "local groups".
>

This seems very reasonable. It would seem that Governors will want to keep
their provinces running smoothly, and would only need to exercise their
authority in extreme situations, but the check and balance would be there.

G. Modius Athanasius


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:21:02 EST

G. Cassius Nerva;

You are indeed entitled to your opinion, but I for one feel that Octavius
Germanicus is the most qualified for the position of Censor. I have had the
pleasure of meeting this man in person, and find him to be a truly honorable
man. His conduct and demeanor have proven very respectable. I have seen
other magistrates conduct themselves in a far less dignified manner -- which
I do not respect.

I do not know who you are referring to as "hostile ex-citizens" but every man
(or woman) is entitled to maintain friendships, and Nova Roma doesn't have a
right to dictate who a person can befriend. If he discusses Nova Roma with
them then so be it. I am confident, and trust his judgment, that he would
not talk about anything of a sensitive and confidential nature.

Finally, I do not see it his hosting the website as a conflict of interest.
I find it very charitable that he has been generous enough to offer his
services. I am very impressed by the professionalism of the websites
updating. It is truly remarkable at how quickly the site is updated. I
believe that Octavius can take some credit for the professionalism of the
website.

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 11/11/2002 8:53:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gcassiusnerva@cs.com writes:

> do not feel good about it.
> One reason is no one should be handed the censorship unopposed.
>
> Secondly, he is friendly with hostile ex-citizens and has apparently
> discussed NR business with them.
>
> Third, he already practically runs NR by hosting the NR website and
> the voting machinery on his own servers. Conflict of interest? Damn
> right. NR should either ban hosts from holding office....or spend
> some money and have a disinterested third party run things on the
> virtual end.
>
> G. Cassius Nerva



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Respectful Response to G. Cassius Nerva
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:29:04 EST

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to G. Cassius Nerva. Salvete.

In response to your recent missive concerning the honorable M. Octavius
Germanicus, I politely respond in the words of Cicero, "Cui bono?"
Primus, if you had wished him to run opposed to someone, then you or someone
else should have stepped forward before today.
Secundus, it is no one's business who another citizen chooses to associate
with and I do not believe there is anything wrong with discussing NR business
with them. I do not recall reading anywhere in the Constitution that any
part of our business is that much of a secret.
Tertius, if you want to serve the Republic then you should offer to serve as
a scriba or accensi to M. Octavius Germanicus and take some of the burden of
"practically running NR" off of his shoulders. Valete.


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:53:08 -0800 (PST)

--- AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com wrote:
SNIP
>
> Finally, I do not see it his hosting the website as
> a conflict of interest.
> I find it very charitable that he has been generous
> enough to offer his
> services. I am very impressed by the
> professionalism of the websites
> updating. It is truly remarkable at how quickly the
> site is updated. I
> believe that Octavius can take some credit for the
> professionalism of the
> website.
>
Salve,

Let's try to avoid confusing personalities with
concepts. Marcus Octavius has done an outstanding job
of running the web site, but that does not mean that
in the future a person of lower morals won't hold the
postion of Censor or Consul while running our website,
and on that day we may find that the conflict of
interest is very real.

In Order to protect Nova Roma's long term intrests we
should start paying for hosting from a disintrested
third party.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Call to All Citizens around Cincinnati Area
From:	"Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:58:13 -0500

Sp. Postumius Tubertus Quiritibus Cincinnatorum Locourmque Proximorum S.P.D.

Salvete,

In light of recent discussion, and my own personal want to meet fellow Nova Romans, if there are any Nova Romans around the Greater Cincinnati Area (in this I include areas as far east as Cleremont Cty., into Northern Kentucky (Covington area), and onto Indiana (Dearborn Cty., Ohio Cty., Switzerland Cty.), and, obviously, north into Butler Cty. (Ohio). So if any of this applies to you, drop me a line either at postumius @ novaroma.org or postumius @ gmx.net, or socraticquestion @ netscape.net.

Optime Valete,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus
Retiarius Lacuum Magnorum
Scriba Curatoris Araneae
Discipolus Anno Tertio Linguae Latinae
Civis Lacuum Magnorum Provinciae
Civis Patriae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima

"Qui bono?" -- M. Tulli Ciceronis

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:01:59 EST

In a message dated 11/11/2002 9:54:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
lsicinius@yahoo.com writes:

> Let's try to avoid confusing personalities with
> concepts. Marcus Octavius has done an outstanding job
> of running the web site, but that does not mean that
> in the future a person of lower morals won't hold the
> postion of Censor or Consul while running our website,
> and on that day we may find that the conflict of
> interest is very real.
>
> In Order to protect Nova Roma's long term intrests we
> should start paying for hosting from a disintrested
> third party.

In the future if Marcus Octavius can no longer host the site then it becomes
an issue. Right now, I don't see it as an issue. I also feel this is the
realm of the Senate. It seems evident that he has their trust.

I think Octavius holds the best interests of Nova Roma, just like any
honorable magistrate, would. I do not see the need to have a "disinterested"
third party involved.

G. Modius Athanasius


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:10:26 -0800 (PST)

--- AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 11/11/2002 9:54:23 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> lsicinius@yahoo.com writes:
>
> > Let's try to avoid confusing personalities with
> > concepts. Marcus Octavius has done an outstanding
> job
> > of running the web site, but that does not mean
> that
> > in the future a person of lower morals won't hold
> the
> > postion of Censor or Consul while running our
> website,
> > and on that day we may find that the conflict of
> > interest is very real.
> >
> > In Order to protect Nova Roma's long term intrests
> we
> > should start paying for hosting from a
> disintrested
> > third party.
>
> In the future if Marcus Octavius can no longer host
> the site then it becomes
> an issue. Right now, I don't see it as an issue. I
> also feel this is the
> realm of the Senate. It seems evident that he has
> their trust.
>
> I think Octavius holds the best interests of Nova
> Roma, just like any
> honorable magistrate, would. I do not see the need
> to have a "disinterested"
> third party involved.
>
> G. Modius Athanasius
>
>
Salve,

And what happens if there is a major conflict between
our magistrates? One where siezing control of the
website is part of the battle?

Think it can't happen?
Read the archives from the civil war in 1999 CE



=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:23:40 EST

In a message dated 11/11/2002 10:11:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
lsicinius@yahoo.com writes:

> And what happens if there is a major conflict between
> our magistrates? One where siezing control of the
> website is part of the battle?
>
> Think it can't happen?
> Read the archives from the civil war in 1999 CE

Then the Senate will have to make a very quick decision. But even if we use
a third party host, there will still be those individuals who have access to
that host. The same problems could arise.

G. Modius Athanasius


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	"Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:31:41 -0500

Sp. Postumius Tubertus Lucio Sicinio Druso Quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve,

>And what happens if there is a major conflict between
our magistrates? One where siezing control of the
website is part of the battle?

Think it can't happen?
Read the archives from the civil war in 1999 CE<

I've already read it. The whole thing. I still don't know exactly what went
on except complete and total chaos. And severe miscommunication,
misinterpretation, mis-this, mis-that, and so on. But that aside, even
though I could not truly comment on the personal character of Octavius, I
will, because I have come to know him to be a moral man, and one of as many
virtues as the good orator and pater patriae Marcus Tullius Cicero. In my
humble opinion, and I hope Octavius would correct me should I be wrong in
this statement, I think Octavius would sooner relinquish his control of the
website than seize control of it for his own purposes as what happened a few
years back.

As well, if we let some disinterested party host the website, then who
controls what information is put on the website? The disinterested party
(that can somehow, mysteriously get a few more citizens who just happen to
vote their way on things because they have become intereste)? The Senate
(that, though moral as they are, can mysteriously decide that they don't
want the citizens to be able to read certain things on the website, or put
out wrong information, or no information at all, thus keeping the citizens
in the dark)? The censors (who, though elected, could easily decide to place
what they want on the website, and nothing more, thus disallowing the people
to find out what wasn't placed there, leaving them powerless to know this,
and even more powerless to impeach them in the comitiae due to lack of
information)? I'm sorry people, but this goes on down the line all the way
to the private citizen, the scribes... everyone. And in looking at that, the
only way to solve this would be if everyone owned the website, but how could
this work?

Again, my friends, there is no solution. So, good citizens, we might as well
leave it in the hands of the man who can best handle our website, the good
consul and censoral candidate Marcus Octavius Germanicus.

And, if I may be so bold as to ask, why is it that we only now ask the
question of who should own the server at the time of elections? And why is
it that we question this when only one person has presented himself for the
office?

Optime Valete,

Spurius Postumius Tubertus


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Website control and recovery
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:30:36 -0600 (CST)

Salve Luci Sicini,

> And what happens if there is a major conflict between
> our magistrates? One where siezing control of the
> website is part of the battle?
>
> Think it can't happen?
> Read the archives from the civil war in 1999 CE

When that happened, the site wasn't on a server physically owned by a
citizen, as it is now... yet one side still managed to gain control
of it over the protests of another.

That's unavoidable. *Someone* will always have the passwords to the
account that manages the site, and will have the ability to destroy
it or change it. The Curator will always be able to do this,
regardless of whether the ISP is a foreign business or a citizen.

All that we can do to protect ourselves from this is to make frequent
backups, and have these backups in the hands of other magistrates.

I make a full backup of the site weekly (including the database) which
is then transferred via FTP to another server in the cabinet and
also to an offsite location (over ten miles away). I have copies on
two of my home machines (shoggoth and azathoth) as well.

Copies could also be distributed to other citizens for safe-keeping.
I will ask the Senate, this month, to enact a policy establishing
who is eligible to act as a keeper of the backups, and will then
provide those persons authorized by the Senate with the access
needed to fetch the files, weekly.

We'll never be able to prevent sabotage - someone will always have
the ability to alter the site's files, even if they do not have
"root" on the server. But we will make it possible to recover
from such an act.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Consul of Nova Roma
Candidate for Censor 2756:
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor/


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE COMITIA ARE CONVENED
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:51:39 -0600 (CST)

Omnibus Civibus Novae Romae M. Octavius Germanicus Consul SPD,

By this Edict, I convene the Comitia Centuriata and Comitia
Populi Tributa to elect next year's magistrates.

The Contio begins at 18:00 Roman Time, Tuesday 12 November.

Voting shall begin at 18:01 Roman Time (17:01 GMT; 11:01 US/Central)
Sunday 17 November (ante diem XV Kal. Decembras).

Voting shall end at 23:01 Roman Time (22:01 GMT; 16:01 US/Central)
Saturday 23 November (ante diem IX Kal. Decembras).

An election guide, containing statements from every candidate,
is available at:
http://www.novaroma.org/election/2755

The following positions will be filled by vote of the Comitia Centuriata:

CENSOR - 1 seat available:
Marcus Octavius Germanicus

CONSUL - 2 seats available:
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quintus Fabius Maximus
Titus Labienus Fortunatus

PRAETOR - 2 seats available:
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
Gnaeus Salix Astur
Lucius Sicinius Drusus
Marcus Arminius Maior

CURULE AEDILE - 2 seats available:
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

QUAESTOR - 8 seats available:
Manius Constantinus Serapio
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Lucius Arminius Faustus
Claudius Salix Davianus
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Decimus Iunius Silanus
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus

CURATOR ARANEUM (webmaster) - 1 seat available:
Titus Octavius Pius

CURATOR DIFFERIUM (publisher) - 1 seat available:
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

ROGATOR - 4 seats available:
Quintus Cassius Calvus
Aulus Hirtius Helveticus
Renata Corva Cantrix
Gallio Velius Marsallas

Although the number of vacancies equals or exceeds the number
of candidates for most of these offices, elections will still
be held for these positions, as required by law.

The offices of Tribunus Plebis and Aedilis Plebis will be elected
by the Comitia Plebis Tributa, which will be separately convened
by the Tribunes.

May the immortal gods of Roma guide our choices.

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Consul of Nova Roma
Candidate for Censor 2756:
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor/


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quiz 8
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:01:57 -0500

Salve, My sincere apologies I made a mistake. looks like I made it twice ,but not with any evil intent. Again I am sorry I posted to wrong place.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:21 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quiz 8

Salvete!

Indeed, Marine, you are right! The directions are very
clear, send the answers to the questions to me
personally!!

Posting your answers to the main list spoils the fun
for everyone else. This quiz is for fun, keep it fun
for everyone!

New questions tomorrow... new try.

For now, vale bene



--- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<equitius_marinus@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- In
Nova-Roma@y..., "Stephen Gallagher"
> <spqr753@m...>
>
> Once again posted the answers for today's quiz to
> the main list.
>
> Would you *please* follow directions, and send them
> to
> consulromanus AT yahoo DOT com? (Address expanded
> in case you're
> reading via the web, which cuts addresses off after
> the @ sign.)
> Once you've posted the answers, you invalidate
> answers anyone
> else sends in after the posted answers appear.
>
> Thank you,
>
> -- Marinus
>
>

=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
----------
Aedilis Plebis
Quintilianus for Consul! http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
Octavius for Censor! http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor
Serapio for Quaestor! http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/Serapio_for_Quaestor.html
Scipio for Quaestor! http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Quaestorship

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Website control and recovery
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:06:59 -0800 (PST)

Salve Marci Octavi,

Thank you that certainly will help.

Nova Roma's two main assests are this list and the Web
Site. We have allready seen an elected offical resign
her citizenship and shut down Nova Roma's old main
list this year, so you can understand my intrest in
wanting to protect these resources.

I Have a very Roman mistrust of giving too much power
to one man. This is why our ancesters set up a system
where there were two consuls, two Censors and at least
two of every other office save the dictator who's term
was limited to 6 months until the Res Publica was in
it's dying days.

We have one person in charge of the website. Until
this year we had one person in charge of the Mail
list. You have served with Honor but that dosen't mean
that our next curator will do the same, that we won't
have a repeat of the incedent with the mailing lists.

I Would rest easier if two people had equal powers
over our site as the curators, and if we had an
arrangement where neither of these had the power to
change the passwords that allowed access to the site.
Where an arrangemnet was made so that at least two
people had to notify the host in order to change the
access passwords.

As long as we rely on hosting provided by one of our
citizens we can't take these precautions. I Do not
fear you as a person Marcus Octavius, rather I fear
the idea of one man having too much power.

--- Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
wrote:
> Salve Luci Sicini,
>
> > And what happens if there is a major conflict
> between
> > our magistrates? One where siezing control of the
> > website is part of the battle?
> >
> > Think it can't happen?
> > Read the archives from the civil war in 1999 CE
>
> When that happened, the site wasn't on a server
> physically owned by a
> citizen, as it is now... yet one side still managed
> to gain control
> of it over the protests of another.
>
> That's unavoidable. *Someone* will always have the
> passwords to the
> account that manages the site, and will have the
> ability to destroy
> it or change it. The Curator will always be able to
> do this,
> regardless of whether the ISP is a foreign business
> or a citizen.
>
> All that we can do to protect ourselves from this is
> to make frequent
> backups, and have these backups in the hands of
> other magistrates.
>
> I make a full backup of the site weekly (including
> the database) which
> is then transferred via FTP to another server in the
> cabinet and
> also to an offsite location (over ten miles away).
> I have copies on
> two of my home machines (shoggoth and azathoth) as
> well.
>
> Copies could also be distributed to other citizens
> for safe-keeping.
> I will ask the Senate, this month, to enact a policy
> establishing
> who is eligible to act as a keeper of the backups,
> and will then
> provide those persons authorized by the Senate with
> the access
> needed to fetch the files, weekly.
>
> We'll never be able to prevent sabotage - someone
> will always have
> the ability to alter the site's files, even if they
> do not have
> "root" on the server. But we will make it possible
> to recover
> from such an act.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Consul of Nova Roma
> Candidate for Censor 2756:
> http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor/
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Website control and recovery
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:17:40 -0600 (CST)

Salve Luci Sicini,

> I Would rest easier if two people had equal powers
> over our site as the curators, and if we had an
> arrangement where neither of these had the power to
> change the passwords that allowed access to the site.

Actually, I was discussing that with my colleague earlier today,
and we may do something about that.

> Where an arrangemnet was made so that at least two
> people had to notify the host in order to change the
> access passwords.

Each account has a separate password, and no one (except root) can
change any of the others. Any of these accounts (in the group "novaroma")
has permission to write to the files. Titus Octavius, Julilla Sempronia,
Franciscus Apulus, Lucius Arminius all have access to the server right now,
and can modify anything on the site (except the Album Civium and related
pages), but none can lock out the others.

I could lock out anyone, but that's the nature of root, and that's not
changeable without rewriting the OS from the ground up.

> As long as we rely on hosting provided by one of our
> citizens we can't take these precautions. I Do not
> fear you as a person Marcus Octavius, rather I fear
> the idea of one man having too much power.

That's certainly a reasonable fear. It's unavoidable that there must
be someone who could destroy the web site (me) or the mailing list (Cassius,
who is the owner of record at Yahoo); the best we can do is be prepared to
recover, with well-distributed backups and contingency plans.

Earlier this year, I declined an opportunity to host the mailing list on
my server - mainly because I didn't like the software available or want
any additional work - but it is wise to keep the two separate.

Vale, O.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Consul of Nova Roma
Candidate for Censor 2756:
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor/


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA is convened
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:51:03 -0300 (ART)

Salvete Quirites !


As Tribunus Plebis, I Convene the Comitia Plebis
Tributa to elect next year's magistrates and to enact
plebiscita about two proposed laws.

The Contio begins at 18:00 Roman Time, Tuesday 12
November.

Voting shall begin at 17 November (ante diem XV Kal.
Decembras), Sunday, 18:01 Roman Time (17:01 GMT; 11:01
US/Central).

Voting shall end at 25 November (ante diem VII Kal.
Decembras), Monday, 23:01 Roman Time (22:01 GMT; 16:01
US/Central).

An election guide, containing statements from every
candidate, is available at:
http://www.novaroma.org/election/2755


The following positions will be filled by vote of the
Comitia Plebis Tributa:

AEDILIS PLEBEIUS - 2 seats available, only one
candidate:
Lucius Arminius Faustus

TRIBUNUS PLEBIS - 5 seats available, 7 candidates:
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Gaius Modius Athanasius
Marcus Marcius Rex
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Gaius Geminius Germanus
Diana Moravia Aventina
Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius


Since the position of Aedilis Plebeius doesnt had
received enough candidates, a second election will
certainly be called in december.
I want to add that, if a candidate doesnt receive at
least the vote of 18 tribes, he is NOT elected. For
example, if a Tribunus Plebis wins the fifth position,
but receives the vote of only 17 tribes or less,
another election will be needed to fill the remaining
positions.


The following plebiscita

- Lex Salicia de Suffragiis in Comitia Plebis Tributa
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/4240

- Lex Salicia de Tribunicia Comitiorum Convocatione
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/4273


Valete Omnes
Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis


_______________________________________________________________________
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Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas fáceis de usar, espaço de sobra e acessórios.
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Voter Fraud
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:16:12 -0500

On Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 11:08:44AM -0800, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

Salve, L. Sicinius Drusus; salvete, omnes.

> Salvete Quirites,
>
> There has been some discussion about what should or
> shouldn't be done to combat posible voter fraud. We
> need something a little different to decide how to
> combat the problem.
>
> In an Earlier post I outlined a method to commit a
> fairly large vote fraud scam. It would be helpful if
> citizens would think about what they would do if they
> wanted to set up a fraudulant voter "plot", and post
> thier "plots" on this list.
>
> Then we can compare the frauds with the sugestions
> that have already been made, and decide which plans
> will stop certain frauds, and which plans aren't worth
> the effort of implementing.

I don't want to sound patronizing in any way, nor am I interested in
boasting about my skills, but - I teach and provide consultation on
computer security (among other things) for a living. I can tell you,
with absolute certainty, that there is _no_ possible way, without
completely changing the way NR operates, to secure the resource you're
trying to protect. It would be trivial to implement a "social hack"
which would subvert this process at a number of "points of entry"; no
technological expertise would be necessary, simply a bit of thinking.

What we have is a system in which it is not possible to establish a
"chain of trust" - the user input is uncontrolled (and uncontrollable),
the transmission medium is unsecured (and unsecureable), there is no
reliable authentication (this _is_ one of the few things that can be
addressed, but, again, would require major changes) or authorization
mechanism... I could go on and on. In short, the number of possible
attack venues here approaches infinity while effective solutions are few
and - this is the killer - would be *very* expensive to implement.

That's the "bad" news. The "good" news (actually, none of this is
particularly good or bad - I just don't see that it's a real issue!) is
that no solution is _necessary,_ in my opinion. Simple vigilance, the
kind that is already being utilized, is sufficient. Add some teeth to it
by providing a lex that punishes the violators effectively, and forget
about it.

********************************************************************

I would like to take the opportunity, while I'm on this subject, to
issue a gentle warning to those who would beat the drums and wave the
flaming torches while trying to ride this strawman into political
office... *don't*. This empty mockery, this non-issue which is wasting
the time and the energy which could be going to address _real_ problems
in NovaRoma will collapse under you and leave you standing on thin air.

Beware.


Salvete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ars longa, vita brevis.
Art is long, life is short.
-- Seneca, "De brevitate vitae"

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Local Group Idea... Part II-Response of M. Ambrisoi
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:30:43 -0500

On Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 05:31:37PM -0500, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com wrote:

Salve,

> From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus. Vale.
>
> Having been in the SCA for 26 years as of the end of October, I can
> definitely agree with your assessment of some of our long-term barons. Some
> of them have been on their seats for so long they believe they actually are
> hereditary noblemen. It was something of a humbling experience for me to
> learn that the only Old Roman Galeri ever to be consul is chiefly remembered
> for his work on Rome's sewer system.

<blink> And this is humbling because?...

It was built in the days of AR without power equipment, no drafting
equipment (at least nothing nearly as sophisticated as the modern
builders have), without the ability to compute relevant loads, flow,
etc... I could go on and on - and major parts of it still stand today.

Bathroom humor aside, if you believe that building _that_ major a piece
of infrastructure, without which civilization literally cannot exist, is
not a majestic achievement, I invite you to reconsider.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Otium sine litteris mors est et hominis vivi sepultura.
Rest without reading is like dying and being buried alive.
-- Seneca Philosophus, "Epistulae"

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Voter Fraud
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:11:07 -0800 (PST)

--- Caius Minucius Scaevola
<pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com> wrote:
SNIP
> I would like to take the opportunity, while I'm on
> this subject, to
> issue a gentle warning to those who would beat the
> drums and wave the
> flaming torches while trying to ride this strawman
> into political
> office... *don't*. This empty mockery, this
> non-issue which is wasting
> the time and the energy which could be going to
> address _real_ problems
> in NovaRoma will collapse under you and leave you
> standing on thin air.
>
> Beware.
>
Excuse me,
This is NOT my project, nor connected to any campaign.

The Junior Consul, who is NOT a canidate for office
started this debate. He requested that I look over the
posts and to gather information for a Lex that he is
thinking about Promulgating before he leaves office.
Since I am his Accensus I Complied with his request.

I Have already stated that there is little chance of
eliminating fraud, but there is a simple measure that
can lessen the impact if it does occur, that fraud
currently isn't against the law which needs to be
addressed, and some sugested penalities. That is the
report I will give the Junior Consul. If you have any
specific concerns that can be easily addressed then
state them, otherwise they will be absent from my
report, and will not be addressed if the Consul does
promulgate a fraud lex.

The Issuses I intend to address, freedom of speech on
this list, the Blasphemy clause, The lack of a Statue
of Limitations, and the lack of protection from Ex
Post Facto Leges and Edicts, were clearly stated in my
declration of canidacy.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Voter Fraud
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:42:32 -0500

On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 11:11:07PM -0800, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> --- Caius Minucius Scaevola
> <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> SNIP
> > I would like to take the opportunity, while I'm on
> > this subject, to
> > issue a gentle warning to those who would beat the
> > drums and wave the
> > flaming torches while trying to ride this strawman
> > into political
> > office... *don't*. This empty mockery, this
> > non-issue which is wasting
> > the time and the energy which could be going to
> > address _real_ problems
> > in NovaRoma will collapse under you and leave you
> > standing on thin air.
> >
> > Beware.
> >
> Excuse me,
> This is NOT my project, nor connected to any campaign.

Please note that the section that you quoted above was separated from
the rest; that's what a line of stars normally means. The part that was
addressed to you came first, as it did in the salutation; the rest of my
post was addressed more broadly, as (again) in the salutation.

Is there a reason that you choose to try on this garment that was cut to
the general measure? Since you a) simply asked for information in your
post, and b) cannot be construed as creating major drama over the issue,
I fail to understand why you would think that the above warning applies
to you.

> The Junior Consul, who is NOT a canidate for office
> started this debate.

Then he *also* would fail to meet the criteria I stated. Where, as the
famous commercial says, is the beef?

> He requested that I look over the
> posts and to gather information for a Lex that he is
> thinking about Promulgating before he leaves office.
> Since I am his Accensus I Complied with his request.
>
> I Have already stated that there is little chance of
> eliminating fraud, but there is a simple measure that
> can lessen the impact if it does occur, that fraud
> currently isn't against the law which needs to be
> addressed, and some sugested penalities. That is the
> report I will give the Junior Consul. If you have any
> specific concerns that can be easily addressed then
> state them, otherwise they will be absent from my
> report, and will not be addressed if the Consul does
> promulgate a fraud lex.

I have mentioned that enforcement of this issue will require some teeth
in it; so far, at least, we seem to be in agreement on the issue.

> The Issuses I intend to address, freedom of speech on
> this list, the Blasphemy clause, The lack of a Statue
> of Limitations, and the lack of protection from Ex
> Post Facto Leges and Edicts, were clearly stated in my
> declration of canidacy.

I wish you luck in your campaign.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Canis timidus vehementius latrat quam mordet.
A timid dog barks more violently than it bites.
-- Curtius Rufus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:21:04 -0800 (PST)

Salve G. Cassius Nerva,

> One reason is no one should be handed the censorship unopposed.

So what do you propose about this?

> Secondly, he is friendly with hostile ex-citizens and has apparently
> discussed NR business with them.

And so? What does this mean?

> Third, he already practically runs NR by hosting the NR website and
> the voting machinery on his own servers. Conflict of interest? Damn
> right. NR should either ban hosts from holding office....or spend
> some money and have a disinterested third party run things on the
> virtual end.

Do you question his honesty? It seems that he has been chosen by the Citizens
and the Senate and has performed quite well. Why don't we then question the
honesty of all elected or chosen magistrates?

Marcus Octavius Germanicus is one of our best magistrates and he has my full
support and consideration. His experiences, his strong dedication and his
honesty make him a perfect and awaited candidate for Censorship.

Vale,





=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Local Group Idea... Part II
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:29:53 -0800 (PST)

Salve Honored Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Omnes,

> As a Propraetor for at least 19 months I agree that the Governor
> should be involed in the governing of the "local group". But I also
> would like to see some freedom for the local group to choose their
> leaders and decide what to do.

Yes. Encouraging local gathering will give the Citizens more responsabilities
in their Roman life and will create a real culture. And you are right by saying
that the Governor should be involved. He is aware of what is going on in the
Province and so will help to build up those groups. At last, he will be the
link between the local groups and the governing bodies.

> I think that intercessio is a beautiful concept, because it tends to
> make "both" parties cooperate. The Governor will loose Dignitas if he
> is seen to be unable to handle lesser magistrati without using a veto
> and the lesser magistrati will fear the veto. This will hopefully
> lead to cooperation and compromise.

Agreed. Intercessio leaves the magnitude to cooperation and will not entrave
the freedom of the local group.

The local group is a great idea. Creating a real culture is so much desired by
our citizens!!

Respectfully,

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France
Scriba Explorator Primus Academiae Thules
Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] About Octavius Germanicus
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:57:41 -0300 (ART)

Salvete,

On few words, every time we interpreters needed Octavius Germanicus, he was there helping and supporting. He is a great man, a helping man. There is a close attachment on the works of the Interpreters and the Curatores Araneum. That couple, Octavius and Sempronia, has showed everytime awesome job. All others interpreters can testimony this.

But we are on bad electoral times, which every just praise seems flattery, so I´m brief on my apology talking just on technical terms, not political views.

If Nova Roma would be a great association, anyone could accuse him of ambition. But NR gives more headache than pleasure for the magistrates. All citizens that are souls of NR on that time must be angels of patience. Octavius is that ´avis rara´.



Valete bene in pacem deorum,



L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.

Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html



Se de ócio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,

Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...

Satira Quarta, Horácio



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 284
From:	Mikko =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sillanp=E4=E4?= <c.curius@welho.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:15:26 +0200

Salvete,

I think this is an excellent proposal. It includes the minimum amount
of additional work from Propraetors and still keeps things under
control. Also the idea of power-balance sounds realistic I think.

Local activity is important and creating means for local
representatives and Propraetors to activate it should be one of the
focusing areas of next years in my opinion.

Valete,

>As a Propraetor for at least 19 months I agree that the Governor
>should be involed in the governing of the "local group". But I also
>would like to see some freedom for the local group to choose their
>leaders and decide what to do.
>
>Could it be possible to give the Governor the power of intercessio
>(and maybe add it to the Constitution) against "local groups" and the
>"local group" the obligation to give the Governor, let's say ten days
>to declare his intercessio, before they execute their decision.
>
>I think that intercessio is a beautiful concept, because it tends to
>make "both" parties cooperate. The Governor will loose Dignitas if he
>is seen to be unable to handle lesser magistrati without using a veto
>and the lesser magistrati will fear the veto. This will hopefully
>lead to cooperation and compromise.
>
>Still the Governor who has the responsibility to have the "greater"
>view _do_ have the possibility to veto a proposal that he thinks will
>disturb the Provincia in some way.
>
>This way the "local group" will be free to elect their own leadership
>and actions and the Governor will still have quite a strong control
>over the "local groups".


--
Caius Curius Saturninus

Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Scriba Aedilis (Caeso Fabius Q.) Concursus Primus

Caeso For Consul! http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul

e-mail: c.curius@welho.com
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 04:32:40 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@g...> wrote:
> Sp. Postumius Tubertus Lucio Sicinio Druso Quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> And, if I may be so bold as to ask, why is it that we only now ask the
> question of who should own the server at the time of elections? And
why >is it that we question this when only one person has presented
himself >for the office?
>
> Optime Valete,
>
> Spurius Postumius Tubertus

My post was a response to Diana's endorsement {as if an unopposed
candidate needs an endorsement}.

To reply to some of the previous responses, yes, I am well aware a
candidate has the same right as anyone else to be friends with
whomever he chooses. It is also my right, as a citizen, to keep those
friendships in mind when asked to cast a vote for that candidate.

Secondly, the unquestioned generosity of Octavius in hosting NR on his
server is beside the point, which is that too much power on one man is
not a good thing. This is why I would forbid hosts from holding
office, although Lucius Sinicius idea of more than one person sharing
the responsibility is also a good one.

And lastly, whether he is the most qualified for the job is a matter
of opinion. I am of the opinon that others are better qualified.
However, as they decided not to run, they should consider this my
rebuke.

Nerva

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 04:47:34 -0800

Ave,

Not all of it is there. There is alot that is missing. Because the ML was shut down too.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Sp. Postumius Tubertus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?


Sp. Postumius Tubertus Lucio Sicinio Druso Quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve,

>And what happens if there is a major conflict between
our magistrates? One where siezing control of the
website is part of the battle?

Think it can't happen?
Read the archives from the civil war in 1999 CE<

I've already read it. The whole thing. I still don't know exactly what went
on except complete and total chaos. And severe miscommunication,
misinterpretation, mis-this, mis-that, and so on. But that aside, even
though I could not truly comment on the personal character of Octavius, I
will, because I have come to know him to be a moral man, and one of as many
virtues as the good orator and pater patriae Marcus Tullius Cicero. In my
humble opinion, and I hope Octavius would correct me should I be wrong in
this statement, I think Octavius would sooner relinquish his control of the
website than seize control of it for his own purposes as what happened a few
years back.

As well, if we let some disinterested party host the website, then who
controls what information is put on the website? The disinterested party
(that can somehow, mysteriously get a few more citizens who just happen to
vote their way on things because they have become intereste)? The Senate
(that, though moral as they are, can mysteriously decide that they don't
want the citizens to be able to read certain things on the website, or put
out wrong information, or no information at all, thus keeping the citizens
in the dark)? The censors (who, though elected, could easily decide to place
what they want on the website, and nothing more, thus disallowing the people
to find out what wasn't placed there, leaving them powerless to know this,
and even more powerless to impeach them in the comitiae due to lack of
information)? I'm sorry people, but this goes on down the line all the way
to the private citizen, the scribes... everyone. And in looking at that, the
only way to solve this would be if everyone owned the website, but how could
this work?

Again, my friends, there is no solution. So, good citizens, we might as well
leave it in the hands of the man who can best handle our website, the good
consul and censoral candidate Marcus Octavius Germanicus.

And, if I may be so bold as to ask, why is it that we only now ask the
question of who should own the server at the time of elections? And why is
it that we question this when only one person has presented himself for the
office?

Optime Valete,

Spurius Postumius Tubertus


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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor!
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:14:33 +0100

Salve Nerva,

>One reason is no one should be handed the censorship unopposed.
A good point, but if no one runs against Octavius, it can't be helped now
can it?

>Secondly, he is friendly with hostile ex-citizens and has apparently
>discussed NR business with them.

I think that it is safe to assume (but feel free to correct me if I am
wrong) that the situation you are referring to my being made Materfamilias
of Gens Moravia. Your above comment is based on hearsay and not facts.

I am the one in contact with ex-citizens, although they aren't in the
category of 'hostile'. If I am somehow breaking the law by doing so, please
point out the edict that states this and I will discontinue my contact with
the ex-NR Moravii.

If you would prefer that someone else runs for Censor, that is of course
your prerogative. After all, it is an election and we each need to vote for
the person whom we feel is the best one for the positions. But if you don't
want people to vote for Octavius, you should post facts, and not something
that is based on emotions and hearsay.

My support of Octavius is based on facts.

>My post was a response to Diana's endorsement {as if an unopposed candidate
needs an endorsement}.

Do I detect another 'slight bit of irritability' towards me on your part?
Feel free to 'wollop' my head with another virtual pillow (as you did in
message 3792) if it will make you feel better.... When I posted my email, it
was not too late for someone to oppose him. I don't really understand why I
am getting on your Nerves so much, but oh well, poor me.
Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina






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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:12:06 -0500

On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 01:46 AM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> One reason is no one should be handed the censorship unopposed.

Then surely it was incumbent upon you, or anyone else who felt the same
way, to run against him?

> Secondly, he is friendly with hostile ex-citizens and has apparently
> discussed NR business with them.

So am I. The bonds of friendship which can be formed between people who
care for things Roman transcend the petty politics of this
organization, which have turned off so many people. I do not see how
this harms Nova Roma. Indeed, properly practiced, it may lure some
people back. I should add that I do not know, nor do I wish to know,
what you're talking about. I have not heard that he has acted to harm
Nova Roma.

> Third, he already practically runs NR by hosting the NR website and
> the voting machinery on his own servers. Conflict of interest? Damn
> right. NR should either ban hosts from holding office....or spend
> some money and have a disinterested third party run things on the
> virtual end.

We have done this in the past, and Marcus Octavius' skills and
technical resources have saved the organization countless thousands of
dollars and hours of trouble. Surely our money could better be used to
put on Roman events, fund scholarships, and so on?

In any case, Marcus Octavius has impressed me as a person of dignity
and intelligence who follows through on his commitments and works
conscientiously to handle problems. I have no hesitation in supporting
him for Censor.

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Marcus Octavius Germanicus for Censor?
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:42:49 -0600 (CST)

Salve Praetrix Patricia Cassia,

> So am I. The bonds of friendship which can be formed between people who
> care for things Roman transcend the petty politics of this
> organization, which have turned off so many people. I do not see how
> this harms Nova Roma. Indeed, properly practiced, it may lure some
> people back.

Indeed, there are few things that would please me more than to see Vado,
Ericius, Lucius Marius, and a few others come back. Although it has
aroused the ire of their enemies, I'll keep trying.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Consul of Nova Roma
Candidate for Censor 2756:
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor/


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Further Endorsements - Cur. Aedile and Quaestor
From:	<3s@hsk-net.de>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:23:17 -0600 (CST)

Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Now the elections has been scheduled, and I would like to take the opportunity to lead your eyes on - in my point of view - suitable candidates for the positions of Curule Aedile and Quaestor.

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus and Franciscus Apulus Caesar are running for the positions of Curule Aedile. Both citizens worked in the staff of the current Aedile and cnadidate for Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, they organized the games we enjoyed so much this year. Both are more than able to fill out this important positions, and they should have your trust for the upcoming elections.

For Quaestor positions you should consider to cast your votes for Decimus Iunius Silanus or Gnaeus Octavius Noricus. Both are newcomers for central magistracies.
Decimus Iunius Silanus served me well as Scriba Censoris, and I´ll never forget his great help to cope with the daily correspondence. Also he was trusted with duties on century points calculation. He´ll be employed as Scriba Censoris next year. Not to forget his fine service as Propraetor Britanniae.
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus has recently started as Scriba Propraetoris in Germania, after completing his military service. He´s dedicated and has a fine sense for management. I´m sure that he will perform well as Quaestor.

Citizens, you might understand that I cannot give any endorsements for plebeian magistracies, since the Gens Flavia is a patrician one, and me and my family members are not allowed to vote in that positions. Look on the list of candidates, http://www.novaroma.org/election/2755/, and you´ll see a couple of well-known and able citizens asking for your trust. Decide for yourself who could earn your vote, ask the candidates if you want.

I wish all candidates good luck for the elections, and I wish Nova Roma a fine government next year.

May the immortal gods of Rome protect Nova Roma.

Bene Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Senator









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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Vacant Political Positions
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:53:46 -0000

Savete omnes,

These are my first elections in Nova Roma. I was wondering what
happens if no one runs for a particular position. For example I see
that Sen Marcus Octavius Germanicus is running for Censor. Now there
were 2 censors to this point. Will either one of the two censors from
last year keep their position in order to help Sen. Marcus Octavius
Germanicus? Apparently he will have one of the largest work loads or
can only one person manage that whole department? My same question
for the 2 vacant Quaestor and other positions.

Regards

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Vacant Political Positions
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:06:03 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> Savete omnes,
>
> These are my first elections in Nova Roma. I was wondering what
> happens if no one runs for a particular position. For example I see
> that Sen Marcus Octavius Germanicus is running for Censor. Now
there
> were 2 censors to this point. Will either one of the two censors
from
> last year keep their position in order to help Sen. Marcus Octavius
> Germanicus? Apparently he will have one of the largest work loads
or
> can only one person manage that whole department?

Election Law is a tricky legal minefield. Let's see if I hit one...

AS was stated before, Censor Diocletianus keeps his position, he was
elected for a two year term (Censors have overlapping terms).

My same question
> for the 2 vacant Quaestor and other positions.
>

Regarding Plebeian magistrates, a law exists to cover a situation
when no candidate declares in the December election (Lex Grylla). The
Senate can in that case appoint a magistrate. Well we have at least
one candidate...

Vacant Quaestor positions (and other non Plebeian Magistrates) on the
other hand should be filled by new elections unless it is three
months or less until the end of his/her term (then the Senate can
fill the vacancy with an appointment, see our Constitution V.d.).

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Vacant Political Positions
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:02:50 +0100

Quintus Lanius Paulinus wrote:
> Will either one of the two censors from last year keep their
> position in order to help Sen. Marcus Octavius Germanicus?

Salve, Quinte Lani Pauline.

Yes, as you say. One censor is elected every year for a two-year term in
office, overlapping that of the censors elected both the year before and
the year after, thus always leaving two magistrates in that office.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:25:04 +0000 (GMT)

Greetings everyone.

I have been unexpectedly busy over the last few days,
so I apologize for any threads I've left dangling:
I'll catch up soon.

However, noticing that voting will shortly commence, I
wanted to ask two questions, whose answers may affect
the way some people vote. At least, one of them would
affect the way I would vote if I were able to (my
citizenship will not be processed until after the
polls close). Apologies if these issues have already
been covered in messages I haven't yet caught up with.

The first is to all the candidates for magistracies
which include the power of veto (Tribunes, Praetors
and Consuls, I believe): What are the views of the
candidates on the 'gens reform' bill which was
recently put to the Senate, and how would they react
if the same bill were to be proposed again during
their term of office? (Apologies to those who have
touched on this question in their previous statements
- it seems fairer to ask the same question to all
candidates, even those who may feel they've already
answered.)

The second is to those citizens who have announced
their intention to withold their taxes (I forget who
these were or how many of them, or else I would ask
them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
their votes in the coming elections?

Many thanks for your time,

Jamie

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Vacant Political Positions
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:10:32 -0600 (CST)

Salve Quinte Lani,

> Now there were 2 censors to this point. Will either one of the two
> censors from last year keep their position in order to help
> Sen. Marcus Octavius Germanicus?

Yes. The office of Censor is unlike any other in Nova Roma, and is
different from that of the ancients. Censores have two-year terms
of office, which are staggered, so that the Junior Censor of one
year is the Senior Censor of the following year. Thus, in our
recent history and near future

2754 Senior=Cornelius Junior=Equitius
2755 Senior=Equitius Junior=Flavius
2756 Senior=Flavius Junior=Octavius

(I omitted 2753 because it doesn't fit the pattern)

> Apparently he will have one of the largest work loads or
> can only one person manage that whole department?

There will be two of us... and lots of Scribae as well.

> My same question for the 2 vacant Quaestor and other positions.

We did have a few declarations of candidacy in the final hours; we were
left with two vacancies: one Quaestor and one Plebeian Aedile. Quaestores
are assigned as assistants to Consuls, Praetores, and Aediles; as we will
be missing one Aedile, the quaestorship that will also be vacant will
likely be that of the junior Plebeian Aedile.

Of course, these vacancies won't remain vacant forever. Either we'll have
another election for these two positions in December, or next year's
Consuls and Tribunes will call one early in the year. Perhaps by then
some citizens who joined less than six months ago, or were born slightly
less than 21 years ago, will then be eligible to run.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Consul of Nova Roma
Candidate for Censor 2756:
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] re: Recomending a book
From:	"gkbagne" <gkbagne@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:41:18 -0000

>From Lepella, To All Salvete!

I just finished a very interesting and amusing book: "Route 66A.D.
On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists", by Tony Perrottet ISBN 0-375-
50432-X. The author is a travel writer, who with his pregnant wife,
a couple of backpacks and 40lbs of books and primary source material,
traces the route of the grand tour of wealthy Roman tourists from
Rome through Greece, Turkey and Egypt. He paints vivid pictures of
what the sites might have looked like in the 2nd and 3rd centuries
and what they're like now. I think you'll find the book funny and
informative, and although it's only available in hardback, well worth
the price- check Amazon.com.
Be Well!


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Debates
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:33:18 -0800

Avete Omnes,

How about having some political debates? I think this would be a good opportunity for those of us who might be undecided to get to question each candidate and find out where each of them stand.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	labienus@novaroma.org
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:00:51 US/Central

Salvete Jamie omnesque

> The first is to all the candidates for magistracies
> which include the power of veto (Tribunes, Praetors
> and Consuls, I believe): What are the views of the
> candidates on the 'gens reform' bill which was
> recently put to the Senate, and how would they react
> if the same bill were to be proposed again during
> their term of office?

Actually two questions, I see.

First, I think that the last version of the bill that was presented to the
Senate (there were several) is an excellent start. However, I think that a
great deal of work remains to be done in order to craft a lex which will
recognize real families, balance ancient familial practices with modern
realities and sensibilities (esp. w/ regard to Nova Roma's stated recognition
of legal equality between the sexes and patriapotestas), maintain the close
ties that have already evolved between members of some of our gentes, and
continue to allow our gentes to act as nuclei for community-building. I don't
think that any of the versions discussed in the Senate really manages to do all
of those things.

Second, if it were proposed again, I would suggest that it should be tabled for
further consideration and do my best to present good arguments for doing so.
If my hypothetical collega were to refuse and present it to the Comitia
Centuriata over my protestations, I would vote against it. Only if it were
presented improperly--e.g. if it were put before the Comitia Populi Tributa--
would I impose my veto.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:27:20 +0100

Salve Jamie et Salvete Quirites!

>The first is to all the candidates for magistracies
>which include the power of veto (Tribunes, Praetors
>and Consuls, I believe): What are the views of the
>candidates on the 'gens reform' bill which was
>recently put to the Senate, and how would they react
>if the same bill were to be proposed again during
>their term of office? (Apologies to those who have
>touched on this question in their previous statements
>- it seems fairer to ask the same question to all
>candidates, even those who may feel they've already
>answered.)

As I have stated in my political platform, I support a Gens reform. I
will work for such a reform on the bases of the present proposals.

>The second is to those citizens who have announced
>their intention to withold their taxes (I forget who
>these were or how many of them, or else I would ask
>them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
>their votes in the coming elections?

I would _never_ threaten to not pay my taxes!

>Many thanks for your time,
>
>Jamie

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The Campaign-site of "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Consul 2756"
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Integrity, Accountability, Reform"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Vacant Political Positions
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:20:34 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@a...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > >
Salve Senator Marce Octavi et Marce Marci,

Thank you for your replies. That certainly clarifies everything for
me. I'll continue watching the elections with great interest.

Valete bene!

Quintus



> Election Law is a tricky legal minefield. Let's see if I hit one...
>
> AS was stated before, Censor Diocletianus keeps his position, he
was
> elected for a two year term (Censors have overlapping terms).
>
> My same question
> > for the 2 vacant Quaestor and other positions.
> >
>
> Regarding Plebeian magistrates, a law exists to cover a situation
> when no candidate declares in the December election (Lex Grylla).
The
> Senate can in that case appoint a magistrate. Well we have at least
> one candidate...
>
> Vacant Quaestor positions (and other non Plebeian Magistrates) on
the
> other hand should be filled by new elections unless it is three
> months or less until the end of his/her term (then the Senate can
> fill the vacancy with an appointment, see our Constitution V.d.).
>
> Ave et Vale
>
> Marcus Marcius Rex


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:47:16 -0800

>The second is to those citizens who have announced
>their intention to withold their taxes (I forget who
>these were or how many of them, or else I would ask
>them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
>their votes in the coming elections?

I would _never_ threaten to not pay my taxes!

Avete Senator Caeso Fabius et Omnes,

Senator Caeso, are you saying that people who follow in the traditions of Ghandi (who opposed the British Salt Tax), Martin Luther King Jr (who was in the Alabama Committe that initiatied the Montgomery Bus Boycott) and the American Founding Fathers (who protested British Taxes) are wrong? And they (the examples listed above) should have been law abiding citizens when they felt their rights and freedoms were threatened?

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Farewell
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:50:56 -0800 (PST)

Thank you Diana
Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@pandora.be> wrote:Salve Brutis,
>but can anyone tell me if Diotima Mortifera Plutona is still with us.

I don't think so. But I am in contact with her offlist and have been meaning
to ask her to come back. She's a very nice person and I was acquainted with
her before her brief stint on this list.
Her email address is Dina Ely [dina@gypsydancer.net] if you'd like to email
her too.

Vale,
Diana



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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE COMITIA ARE CONVENED
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:43:25 -0600 (CST)

Omnibus Civibus Novae Romae M. Octavius Germanicus Consul SPD,

By this Edict, I convene the Comitia Centuriata and Comitia
Populi Tributa to elect next year's magistrates. This supercedes
the previous edict, which omitted the laws that the Tribunes
place before the Comitia Populi Tributa, and did not indicate which
positions would be elected by each Comitia.

The Contio begins at 18:00 Roman Time, Tuesday 12 November.

Voting shall begin at 18:01 Roman Time (17:01 GMT; 11:01 US/Central)
Sunday 17 November (ante diem XV Kal. Decembras).

Voting shall end at 23:01 Roman Time (22:01 GMT; 16:01 US/Central)
Saturday 23 November (ante diem IX Kal. Decembras).

ITALIANO: Il tempo per presentare le candidature è finito e le elezioni
sono stabilite. Siete tutti invitati a votare dalle 18.00 di domenica
17 Novembre fino alle 23.00 di Sabato 23 Novembre 2002.

An election guide, containing statements from every candidate,
is available at:
http://www.novaroma.org/election/2755

The following positions will be filled by vote of the Comitia Centuriata:

CENSOR - 1 seat available:
Marcus Octavius Germanicus

CONSUL - 2 seats available:
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quintus Fabius Maximus
Titus Labienus Fortunatus

PRAETOR - 2 seats available:
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
Gnaeus Salix Astur
Lucius Sicinius Drusus
Marcus Arminius Maior

These candidates and laws will be voted on by the Comitia Populi Tributa:

CURULE AEDILE - 2 seats available:
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

QUAESTOR - 8 seats available:
Manius Constantinus Serapio
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Lucius Arminius Faustus
Claudius Salix Davianus
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Decimus Iunius Silanus
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus

CURATOR ARANEUM (webmaster) - 1 seat available:
Titus Octavius Pius

CURATOR DIFFERIUM (publisher) - 1 seat available:
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

ROGATOR - 4 seats available:
Quintus Cassius Calvus
Aulus Hirtius Helveticus
Renata Corva Cantrix
Gallio Velius Marsallas

Although the number of vacancies equals or exceeds the number
of candidates for most of these offices, elections will still
be held for these positions, as required by law.

The text of these proposed laws is incorporated herein by reference:

- Lex Salicia de Prorogatione et Cumulatione
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/4239

- Lex Salicia de Suffragiis in Comitia Populi Tributa
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/4241

- Lex Salicia Iudiciaria
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/4243

- Lex Salicia de Tribunicia Comitiorum Convocatione
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/4273

- Lex Arminia De Rationem Edictibus
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/4341

The offices of Tribunus Plebis and Aedilis Plebis will be elected
by the Comitia Plebis Tributa, which will be separately convened
by the Tribunes.

May the immortal gods of Roma guide our choices.

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Consul of Nova Roma


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:34:52 -0000

> The second is to those citizens who have announced
> their intention to withold their taxes (I forget who
> these were or how many of them, or else I would ask
> them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
> their votes in the coming elections?
>
> Many thanks for your time,
>
> Jamie
>


> Salve Jamie!


I believe these people should be able to vote in good conscience.
As you know 12.00 taxes were due more or less in March. After March,
18.00 I am willing to bet that most of those people already paid
their taxes to cover to March 2003 so they are in good standing for
this election year anyway. The past issues that brought up this
protest statement ought to be resolved one way or another before or
during the next tax season. New NR's wern't required to pay taxes
until next year. So the tax protest is meaningless for the moment and
this election.


Quintus
>
> www.strategikon.org
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:58:32 +0100

Salvete Quirites et Salve Junior Consul!

>Senator Caeso, are you saying that people who follow in the
>traditions of Ghandi (who opposed the British Salt Tax), Martin
>Luther King Jr (who was in the Alabama Committe that initiatied the
>Montgomery Bus Boycott) and the American Founding Fathers (who
>protested British Taxes) are wrong?

I admire these persons greatly, but they fought oppressors. Are You
suggesting that Nova Roma is oppressive? You amaze me. Are You not
our current Junior Consul?

>And they (the examples listed above) should have been law abiding
>citizens when they felt their rights and freedoms were threatened?

At least I do not feel that my rights and freedom are threatened in
Nova Roma. ;-)

>Vale,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The Campaign-site of "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Consul 2756"
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Integrity, Accountability, Reform"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:14:23 -0800

Avete Q. Lanius et Omnes,

Yep I have heard quite a varity of views in regards to the protest of the Founding Fathers. However, this is probably off topic, if you would like to email me privately at alexious@earthlink.net we could certainly discuss this further.

Most Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A question for condidates and a question for voters


--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> >The second is to those citizens who have announced
> >their intention to withold their taxes (I forget who
> >these were or how many of them, or else I would ask
> >them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
> >their votes in the coming elections?
>
>and the American Founding Fathers (who protested British Taxes) are
wrong?

Good morning Senator Sulla,

Please don't take my point seriously at this time but as a matter of
interest I was reading some books on US history over the last few
years. Some of them think that the protests of higher British taxes
were unfair because the British treasury was practically bankrupted
because of the money that was put into the French - Indian wars over
30+ years prior to the revolution in order to stop France from
swallowing up the continent and 13 colonies. They needed more revenue
to cover those costs. Even in Canada, I never saw that point brought
up in school history books.

Another example is the history of Mexico. I showed some visting
Mexican students the books I have on the French occupation of Mexico
and the set up of the puppet Hapsburg emperor Maximillian. Their
school books in Mexico always forgot to mention that Benito Juarez
(good idealist but lousy economist) said yawn, we will not pay on our
foreign debts to Europe for the time being. With no IMF, insurance
etc in the mid 19th century, no wonder the French came.

Anyway, as more research and archealogy comes ti light it will be
interesting to see what new ways Ancient Rome may be looked at!

Quintus

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:09:40 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> >The second is to those citizens who have announced
> >their intention to withold their taxes (I forget who
> >these were or how many of them, or else I would ask
> >them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
> >their votes in the coming elections?
>
>and the American Founding Fathers (who protested British Taxes) are
wrong?

Good morning Senator Sulla,

Please don't take my point seriously at this time but as a matter of
interest I was reading some books on US history over the last few
years. Some of them think that the protests of higher British taxes
were unfair because the British treasury was practically bankrupted
because of the money that was put into the French - Indian wars over
30+ years prior to the revolution in order to stop France from
swallowing up the continent and 13 colonies. They needed more revenue
to cover those costs. Even in Canada, I never saw that point brought
up in school history books.

Another example is the history of Mexico. I showed some visting
Mexican students the books I have on the French occupation of Mexico
and the set up of the puppet Hapsburg emperor Maximillian. Their
school books in Mexico always forgot to mention that Benito Juarez
(good idealist but lousy economist) said yawn, we will not pay on our
foreign debts to Europe for the time being. With no IMF, insurance
etc in the mid 19th century, no wonder the French came.

Anyway, as more research and archealogy comes ti light it will be
interesting to see what new ways Ancient Rome may be looked at!

Quintus

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:22:23 -0800 (PST)

--- Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Cornelius Sulla"
> <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > >The second is to those citizens who have
> announced
> > >their intention to withold their taxes (I forget
> who
> > >these were or how many of them, or else I would
> ask
> > >them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
> > >their votes in the coming elections?
> >
> >and the American Founding Fathers (who protested
> British Taxes) are
> wrong?
>
> Good morning Senator Sulla,
>
> Please don't take my point seriously at this time
> but as a matter of
> interest I was reading some books on US history over
> the last few
> years. Some of them think that the protests of
> higher British taxes
> were unfair because the British treasury was
> practically bankrupted
> because of the money that was put into the French -
> Indian wars over
> 30+ years prior to the revolution in order to stop
> France from
> swallowing up the continent and 13 colonies. They
> needed more revenue
> to cover those costs. Even in Canada, I never saw
> that point brought
> up in school history books.

The protest was against "Taxation without
Representation" not the concept of taxes. There were
offers from the American side to tax themselves
through the Colonial assemblies to help defray the
costs of the war, but the British considered
establishing the right of Parliment to tax the
colonies to be more important than the taxes
themselves.

But we are getting off topic here.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:28:08 -0000

Salve Senator,

You are right. We don't want to drift off topic. I'll be back and
forth on the computer today but I'm at mjk@datanet.ab.ca. By the way,
did everyone see Anthony and Cleopatra on A&E last night. It was
really good and informative.

Quintus


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Website
From:	"aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:28:29 -0000

Marcus Octavius Germanicus--

I read your explanation of how you handle the website, and I'm
impressed. The server redundancy and weekly site backups sound very
professionally organized. As long as more than one person has access
to the backups, what you're doing sounds fine to me. many thanks to
you and the other people running the server for keeping the site
healthy. :)

I've been pricing webhosts, lately. We could be paying over $200/yr.
if the site were hosted on a commercial server.

---
Renata Corva


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:33:09 -0800

----- Original Message -----
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters


Salvete Quirites et Salve Junior Consul!

>Senator Caeso, are you saying that people who follow in the
>traditions of Ghandi (who opposed the British Salt Tax), Martin
>Luther King Jr (who was in the Alabama Committe that initiatied the
>Montgomery Bus Boycott) and the American Founding Fathers (who
>protested British Taxes) are wrong?

I admire these persons greatly, but they fought oppressors. Are You
suggesting that Nova Roma is oppressive? You amaze me. Are You not
our current Junior Consul?


Sulla: I can understand and sympathize with the reasons given by Pompeia Cornelia Strabo in her resignation statement, and at times have felt the same pressure that she had felt. And I believe that such ambiguity in the blashpemy law(s) can put us on a very slippery path. Especially considering that we almost recently had a trial for the issue of "public morality." So I take it that you feel that Nova Roma is not, nor can ever be an oppressive institution? And that the rights of others cannot potentially be threatened? Let me ask you Senator, do I have less of a voice to voice my concern and reservation because I am consul? Or do I have a duty to be louder than the rest because I am consul? I think I have a duty to be louder and more vocal because I am Consul. Because the Consul's duty is to represents all Nova Romans, even those who feel their rights are not being protected.

>And they (the examples listed above) should have been law abiding
>citizens when they felt their rights and freedoms were threatened?

At least I do not feel that my rights and freedom are threatened in
Nova Roma. ;-)

Sulla: I see you are only concerned with your own rights and freedoms, but not with the rights and freedoms of others. That is quite telling. Well Senator, the only thing I can say is that I hope that if your rights are ever threatened there will be people left to defend your rights.
Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix




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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:39:12 -0800 (PST)

--- Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
SNIP
>
> The first is to all the candidates for magistracies
> which include the power of veto (Tribunes, Praetors
> and Consuls, I believe): What are the views of the
> candidates on the 'gens reform' bill which was
> recently put to the Senate, and how would they react
> if the same bill were to be proposed again during
> their term of office? (Apologies to those who have
> touched on this question in their previous
> statements
> - it seems fairer to ask the same question to all
> candidates, even those who may feel they've already
> answered.)

Salve,
The Praetors do have a veto, but if it comes into play
on Gens Reform we have far worse problems than the
Gens that will need to be addressed. The Praetors
can't Veto a proposal made by the Consuls, and can
only promulgate leges in the absence of both Consuls.
So the only way a Praetor could veto Gens Reform is if
both Consuls were missing and the other Praetor
promulgated the law. Under these circumstance I would
Veto Gens reform or any other lex until the far more
important issuse of not having Consuls was addressed.

My view on Gens reform can be summed up in two words,
"No Force". I'm a long standing proponant of historic
Gens, but feel that none of the present Gens should be
forced to change thier structure against thier will.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Gallio Marsallas candidate for Rogator
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:23:50 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

Commander Gallio Marsallas contacted me yesterday by phone to ask for
the specific elements of a Rogator's task in Nova Roma and just what the
task entailed. Upon my explanation of such, he asked my opinion about
running for the Office of Rogator. As those of you who know me, have
come to realize, I do not give advice. In my view it is a bad practice.
However, I do quite often give encouragement to those who in my
estimation have achieved, in my view, the stature of a person who will
ably and effectively act to further Nova Roma.

For those who have in the past suggested that my words, and those for
whom I speak are the words of my friends, I have to admit that, in many
cases, this is true. "My Friends" are, generally speaking, those who
have done much, and who have evidenced an energy, stabilty, honor and
dignity in thier dealings with me. They are people who honor the truth,
in thier dealings with others, and who strive to better Nova Roma, not
simply to 'feather" thier own nest. They are people who honor and
support the dignity and individuality of each Citizen of Nova Roma.

Such a person is Commander Gallio of the XXIVth Legion. To date he has
been mainly concerned with the futherence of Nova Roma, in making the
macronation of the U.S. aware of the Roman Military and related Roman
Culture. He has raised a Roman Legion, and has been instrumental in
almost singlehandedly creating and displaying an outstanding military
display for event spectators to enjoy. He has traveled far (Canada,
NewYork, Maine, Maryland) and of course extensively in New Jersey and
Pennsylvania where he lives. His appearance at "Roman Days" in the
South, "Roman Market Days" in Maine, and at the Roman Event last year in
Canada were evidence if any further is required of his interest and
ability to portray things Roman. I am a member of his Legion, and am
proud to be so. He has been the gentleman who has encouraged the Great
School of Gladiators, to which I am also honored to be a member, from
it's beginning and has encouraged and provided a basic unit from which
the Gladiator School was able to grow and mature rapidly.

Now Commander Gallio has turned his attention to the needs of Nova Roma
in another area, and has with my personal support and encouragement,
announced his candidacy for the position of Rogator, in response to the
request on line for such citizen consideration.

I am both pleased and proud to recommend most highly and most
enthusiastically Gallio Marsallas to you, the citizens of Nova Roma, for
the postion of Rogator. I am positive that he will bring to this task
and position all the zeal, and energy, that have marked so well his
military endeavors, to this important and very necessary NR position. I
ask the kind and perceptive consideration of the Citizens of Nova Roma
for this gentleman who has done much for the micronation to date, and
who wishes to, and stands for the opportunity to do more, in the coming
ballot soon to be set before Nova Roma.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"sceptia" <sceptia@yahoo.es>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:50:47 -0000

Salve quirite.

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@y...> wrote:

> The first is to all the candidates for magistracies
> which include the power of veto (Tribunes, Praetors
> and Consuls, I believe): What are the views of the
> candidates on the 'gens reform' bill which was
> recently put to the Senate, and how would they react
> if the same bill were to be proposed again during
> their term of office? (Apologies to those who have
> touched on this question in their previous statements
> - it seems fairer to ask the same question to all
> candidates, even those who may feel they've already
> answered.)

SCEPTIUS: Frankly, I think we need a reform on that. So, as Candidate
to Consul, C. Fabius Quintilianus holds, I will support a correct
reform on that point. And I think Quintilianus and Candidate to
Praetor Gn. Salix Astur will do a great work on that and other core
points.

> The second is to those citizens who have announced
> their intention to withold their taxes (I forget who
> these were or how many of them, or else I would ask
> them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
> their votes in the coming elections?

SCEPTIUS: As a citizen too, I think that paying is good for all the
Republic, but I guess that personal or even macronational events
(Like Argentina's case) doesn't have to stop people in their whishes
of electing those who they believe must rule the Republic.

I hope your questions to be satisfactory answered. As I said, my
program is resumed in one single word: AUSCULTARE. :-)

Vale bene,

L. Didius Geminus Sceptius
- Candidate to Tribuni Plebis -


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Trust in Individuals
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:44:39 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

Again our friend Nerva has provided his rather crudely stated objection
/ comment. This time against a Candidate for the office of Censor.
Such an objecton is certainly his to hold, and I honor and support his
right to make a personal objection just as strongly as I disagree with
the elements within said objection.

Secondly, I agree with Citizen Drusus, that the liklihood of a repeat
disaster with the website is theoretically possible.

However, in response to both above, at the moment, we are considering an
individual for the office of Censor, for a coming period of two years.
This gentleman has worked hard for Nova Roma during his tenure as Senior
Consul and as a Senator. He is an honorable man, and well qualified to
hold the positions and responsibilities that he now holds. He has his
personal friends, and he may well have correspondence with former NR
members, just as I do. Personally, I cannot see how that is germaine to
the matter of his candidacy for Censor. As a Senator, I trust his
judgement as a man whom I have served closely with for some time.

Further, he has pledged his Honor to the Citizens of Nova Roma that
should anything such as Citizen Drusus has suggested come to pass,
Senator Octavius will yield his activities with the Main List to whoever
shall be designated by the Senate. There are, of course, those who will
criticize such a pledge as an empty assurance / gesture, and Octavius'
conversations with his non-Nova Roma friends as "treachery', but I do
not. I have met the Senior Consul face-to-face and he has personnally
assured me of his intentions. I believe him, as I believe his pledges,
and his assurances. He has shown me the kind of man he is, and as I
have indicated previously, he is a man with whom ould be willing to
intrust, "my purse, my dog and my wife." I cannot say fairer than
that!!!! While there are those in Nova Roma whose word I would not
take, nor whom I would trust any further than I could throw them, based
on past actions. I do state to the Citizens of Nova Roma that the
Senior Consul Octavius is most assuredly not one of them!!!!!!!! No, I
have not always agreed with the Senior Consul, and no I am not his "dog'
to grovel and always agree. He and most others who have been in Nova
Roma for some period are certainly well aware of that fact!!

Men and women in Nova Roma who take on the tasks of the state in which
Imperium is a strong element, are viewed in relation to thier
judgements, activities and how well thier words and actions, as well as
how they wield that Imperium, benefit those whom they have been selected
to represent. In my view, the Senior Consul has done well, responded
well to his responsibilities and has given good reason for me to trust
his judgement, and his word. It is, of course, not possible to satisfy
all the people all of the time, and there will always be a lunatic
fringe of less than one percent of the population who will object to
everything done, no matter what the result. However, those who are
reasonable citizens must see the Honor, Dignity, and Ability of this
Candidate in his past endeavors. I believe that he seeks to uphold the
Roman Virtues to the best of his ability, and that should, please the
Gods, be the goal of all of us here.

Therefore, I choose to give my trust to the Senior Consul Octavius in
his Candidacy for Censor, and to further trust that in the coming weeks
and months that he will, through his offices, give consideration to the
concerns voiced by Citizen Drusus. To the others who have concerns, I
say this:

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion, harsh
language garnered from the "Lower Deck" is not necessary here. Your
opinions fly in the face of an honorable man's endeavors, and past
accomplishments both in legislation and in the handling of both awkward
situations and individuals. I say to you if you have evidence of
'treason" bring it to light, or maintain your silence. This Main List
does not require a vendetta caused by rumor and villification, with no
basis.

In closing Citizens of Nova Roma, I fully support the Candidacy of
Senior Consul Octavius for the office of Censor. I have been given to
understand that he may also have the support of the two currently
sitting Censors, as well as the support of a significant portion of the
Senate. However, cnfirmation of that understanding must come from those
individuals. I believe that such support may be in some small way be an
indication, to you, of a possible future trust in the intentions of the
Candidate for Censor of Nova Roma. I again come before you to ask for
your consideration in the casting of your vote, as well as the above
few poor words of sincere application, and much more importantly the
actions and accomplishments of the Senior Consul in this year just past.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens


Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ludi Plebeii - Quiz 9
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:34:32 +0000 (GMT)

Salvete!

QUIZ

*****
Send your answers to consulromanus@yahoo.com (don’t
forget to include you Nova Roma name), putting “QUIZ”
in the subject line.
*****

Who knows most on Ancient Rome?


Very simple: five questions each day, some multiple
choice and some not; some difficult ones and some easy
ones…

Questions covering all aspects of Roma Antiqua:
military, history, literature, …



The results will be posted each day on the main list,
so participate as much as you can!

Answers to the previous questions cannot be sent
anymore!

-----

The correct answers of quiz 8:
1. Who wrote ‘Agricola’ and ‘Germania’? (Tacitus)

2. Solve this sum: XIV + LIX + DCCCVII = ? (DCCCLXXX /
880)

3. Which consul, after having had the same dream as
his colleague while they were asleep, offered himself
to the Gods to save his army and the Res Publica?
(Publius Decius Mus)

4. This extravagant lover of ritual and architecture
is known for building a palace at Spilato in Dalmatia
that was intended for his retirement. Who was he?
(Diocletianus)

5. When a movie is copyright MCMLXXXVII, this means …
(1987)


-----
Points so far:
Julilla Sempronia Magna – 45
Sextus Apollonius Scipio – 44
Titus Labienus Fortunatus – 42
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus – 39
Quintus Lanius Paulinus – 30
Spurius Postumius Tubertus – 27
Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus – 24
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus – 23
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus – 20
Marcus Octavius Germanicus – 19
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix – 18
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus – 13
Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia – 13
Marcus Arminius Maior – 10
Gaius Basilicatus Agricola – 10
Lithia Cassia – 9
Vivius Ambrosius Caesariensis – 8
Aulus Octavius Serenus – 4


-----


Here are today's questions:

***************

1. Who wrote the works “Georgica” and “Bucolica” (full
Roman name)?

2. How much is XXXIV?

3. When was Hadrian's wall started?
- AD 64
- AD 101
- AD 122
- AD 165

4. Where did Hannibal come from (place of birth)?

5. What two cities were destroyed in 146 BC?


***************

Take part in the quiz, and see who knows most on
Ancient Rome!!


Valete bene



=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
----------
Aedilis Plebis
Quintilianus for Consul! http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
Octavius for Censor! http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor
Serapio for Quaestor! http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/Serapio_for_Quaestor.html
Scipio for Quaestor! http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Quaestorship

__________________________________________________
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from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ludi Plebeii - photo 7
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:24:17 +0000 (GMT)

Salvete!

A new and exciting contest, offered by Aedilis Plebis
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix:


PHOTO CONTEST

A very simple contest: 10 photos of Roman-era
monuments to recognize.


10 days long one photo will be posted each day. The
photo will contain a whole monument, or a very large
part of it.


You can participate by sending an email to
consulromanus@yahoo.com (put “PHOTO” in the subject
line), with your Nova Roma name and the correct
answer.


Today's new photo can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/consulromanus/photo.html

NOTE: I admit it's a bit of a tough one this time...
But *double points* will be awarded for those who can
guess who it is (plus an extra point for those who now
*where* it is).


Different kind of answers are possible, as shown in
this example:
A photo of the Pantheon can be described as:
Pantheon
Pantheon, Rome
Temple of Agrippa
Pantheon, Italy
Agrippa’s temple (Pantheon)
…
These are all correct answers; just make clear that
you recognize the monument on the photo!


All correct answers will be put together each day, and
my totally innocent two year old neighbour will pick
out a winner at random.

Everyone’s results will be presented each day in a
hit-parade.


*********
Today's winner:
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Congratulations!!


All others who have also submitted a correct answer:
Jullila Sempronia Magna
Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus
Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
Marcus Marcius Rex


The correct answer:
Maison Carrée, a temple in Nîmes, France.

*********

So participate as much as possible to become the best
and greatest “monument-specialist”!


Valete bene



=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
----------
Aedilis Plebis
Quintilianus for Consul! http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
Octavius for Censor! http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor
Serapio for Quaestor! http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/Serapio_for_Quaestor.html
Scipio for Quaestor! http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Quaestorship

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ex-Nova Romans
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:43:49 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

In past years, I have considered it my duty to contact those people who
have left Nova Roma, and ask them for thier reasons, and if there is
anything that I can do, or bring to thier attention any NR aspect which
might change thier mind. I once left Nova Roma in a rage of frustration
and anger, and I was so contacted by many friends, and made to realize
that I had many friends in Nova Roma, despite previous warnings and
comments to the contrary, and it became obvious that the micronation
would not tear itself apart, again contrry to the "doomsayers" in my
ear, I returned to find a further kindness of almost total acceptance
and friendship in NR. I have not forgotten that kindness, nor that
feeling of welcome extended by those who welcomed my return.

When someone seems to be having trouble in NR, or when there is a
resignation from NR in which I feel that I may have some chance of
appealing to the individual resigning, then, I too, have tried to
contact them. Sometimes I am successful, and sometimes I am not. There
are those in NR currently who have returned here, with whom I have
spoken. While I do not at all suppose that thier return to NR had
anything to do with my contacting them, I do have a good personal
feeling about making such an effort.

As Senator Cassia has so wisely stated, friendships are not as easily
terminated as are political or personal actions. Friendships are often
for life, and I value my friends in Nova Roma far too much to allow them
to depart without contacting them, and in many cases maintainng a futher
contact with them. I have always supposed that a friend was one who was
a support when thngs go horribly wrong and not just a companion for the
brighter side of life.

I support this idea of contacting past members of Nova Roma. Such was
brought up just recently on the main List as perhaps being an effort
that we should be more involved in.

It is true that some who have left Nova Roma, that action has been a
relief to some, and an agony to others. Some have trie to take some
political advantage from this action, and some have been condemned
unfairly, or with false accustions born out of incomplete information.
I cannot remember, in save only two or three cases, where each person
who has chosen to leave Nova Roma did not have at least one good element
or idea which might have been valuable to NR, and in many cases where
behavior, actions, and words which could not be borne was the culprit of
causing separation, rather than assaults against the micronation.

So if those who disapprove of the Senior Consul contacting ex-Nova
Romans, they must also disapprove of me, as I have several friends who
will not join Nova Roma, or who have left Nova Roma, but wth whom I can
still share an interest of Roman Culture with. There has been
established in the Sodalitas Miltarium a "Socci: which is an auxiliary
group who wish to share in the Militarium List, but not in Nova Roma.
Such I believe is the privaledge of the Senior Consul, as it is mine,
and unless my word or the Senior Consul's word is not to be trusted, as
has been proven in other cases in the past, Ipercieve that such
associations are nobody's business but my own and that of any person
who engages thusly.

In respons to Mistress Moravia, there is not Lex or Edictum, to my
knowledge, that one may not select one's friends outside of Nova Roma,
and the clumsy attempts of anyone to suggest such is rediculous. I
honor your efforts and your posts to this list.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:09:55 -0000

Earlier, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:

> I would _never_ threaten to not pay my taxes!

This led Lucius Cornelius Sulla to reply:

> Avete Senator Caeso Fabius et Omnes,
>
> Senator Caeso, are you saying that people who follow in the
> traditions of Ghandi (who opposed the British Salt Tax), Martin
> Luther King Jr (who was in the Alabama Committe that initiatied
> the Montgomery Bus Boycott) and the American Founding Fathers
> (who protested British Taxes) are wrong?

I'm not the senior Curule Aedile and Senator, but I'll happily
share my opinion on the matter.

If I say "I would never do X" that is a very different thing from
saying "Anyone who does X is bad/wrong/foolish/stupid." To suggest
that the first is equal to the second indicates to me that the
person making that suggestion is either trying to blur the issue
or lacks the discernment to recognize the difference.

There are forms of political protest which honest, honorable people
may reasonably reject as options they would choose. Senator
Quintilianus enjoys macronational citizenship in a nation he loves,
and is willing to pay high taxes to live there. Likewise, he values
our micronation and considers his payment of taxes here, I suspect,
to be an important statement about his investment in our republic.
Toward that end, he has stated that he rejects the idea of nonpayment
of taxes *for himself* as an option of political protest.

> And they (the examples listed above) should have been law abiding
> citizens when they felt their rights and freedoms were threatened?

We all make our own political choices, Lucius Cornelius. Making a
choice for one's self, and stating it, is a very different thing from
trying to impose that choice on others. I don't see anybody here
saying you must pay your tax. The very most I've seen is a statement
that a sitting Consul is setting a poor example by encouraging a tax
revolt. Since you chose to take the action that you have taken, it
seems disingenous of you to be defensive if those who disagree with
you use that political statement you've made as a means of
distinguishing and distancing themselves from you.

I can imagine situitions arising in NovaRoma which might make me feel
that I had to withold payment of my tax. I hope that if I ever came
to that point, my friends who chose otherwise would respect my choice
as I would respect theirs.

Vale Consul, and valete omens,

-- Marinus


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:15:33 +0100

Salvete Quirites et Salve Junior Consul!

> >Senator Caeso, are you saying that people who follow in the
> >traditions of Ghandi (who opposed the British Salt Tax), Martin
> >Luther King Jr (who was in the Alabama Committe that initiatied the
> >Montgomery Bus Boycott) and the American Founding Fathers (who
> >protested British Taxes) are wrong?
>
> I admire these persons greatly, but they fought oppressors. Are You
> suggesting that Nova Roma is oppressive? You amaze me. Are You not
> our current Junior Consul?
>
> Sulla: I can understand and sympathize with the reasons given by
>Pompeia Cornelia Strabo in her resignation statement, and at times
>have felt the same pressure that she had felt. And I believe that
>such ambiguity in the blashpemy law(s) can put us on a very slippery
>path. Especially considering that we almost recently had a trial
>for the issue of "public morality." So I take it that you feel that
>Nova Roma is not, nor can ever be an oppressive institution?

> And that the rights of others cannot potentially be threatened?
>Let me ask you Senator, do I have less of a voice to voice my
>concern and reservation because I am consul?

I think that anyone who is a Consul and a Senator have many
constructive ways of defending citizens against any weakness in our
system. I would think that it should be natural for You to fight the
weaknesses of the system from the inside.

> Or do I have a duty to be louder than the rest because I am consul?

You could try to propose a law instead. This is something the common
citizen can't do.

>I think I have a duty to be louder and more vocal because I am
>Consul. Because the Consul's duty is to represents all Nova Romans,
>even those who feel their rights are not being protected.

By not paying taxes, or threating not to pay them, I don't think that
You are a very good rolemodel. Which You as a Consul should be.
Taxation is something that the republic has voted about, as an
elected official You are supposed to facilitate the will of the
people, not conduct acts of rebellion against them.

> >And they (the examples listed above) should have been law abiding
> >citizens when they felt their rights and freedoms were threatened?
>
> At least I do not feel that my rights and freedom are threatened in
> Nova Roma. ;-)
>
> Sulla: I see you are only concerned with your own rights and
>freedoms, but not with the rights and freedoms of others. That is
>quite telling.

You are jumping to conclusions here. As I said about your examples I
don't think they are anything like the situation in Nova Roma. I
think it is very important to be careful with facts when comparing
one historical situation to another. At the moment I don't see anyone
that is threatened in Nova Roma by oppressive magistrates

>Well Senator, the only thing I can say is that I hope that if your
>rights are ever threatened there will be people left to defend your
>rights.

This is just cheap demagogery Illustrus Junior Consul! You are
implying that I would not defend the rights of others. Once again You
are jumping to conclusions here. I have heard of citizens accusing
You of being a threat to their rights, but I don't know of anyone who
has referred to you as a defender of civil rights.


Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The Campaign-site of "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Consul 2756"
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Integrity, Accountability, Reform"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Debates
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:32:27 -0500

Salve, I am ready to debate in the chat room just tell be when?

Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Quaestor and Curator Differium
Fortuna Favet Fortibus
----- Original Message -----
From: Titus Arminius Genialis
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:26 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Debates

Salvete.

I agree with Sulla, and I really think this could be an interesing
experience.

It could be on the chat room, everybody watching they talk and aking them
some questions, just like a Market Day.

Valete.
______________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@yahoo.com.br
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ#: 75873373
______________________________________________



-----Mensagem original-----
De: L. Cornelius Sulla [mailto:alexious@earthlink.net]
Enviada em: terça-feira, 12 de novembro de 2002 12:33
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Debates


Avete Omnes,

How about having some political debates? I think this would be a good
opportunity for those of us who might be undecided to get to question each
candidate and find out where each of them stand.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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---
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Enviada por GNBS através do MSO2K.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 19/9/2002


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Tax Bill
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:39:53 +0000

Salvete omnes:

Just curious.
Whatever happened to that tax bill?

Galerius Peregrinator.


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Subject:	RES: [Nova-Roma] Debates
From:	"Titus Arminius Genialis" <tagenialis@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:37:32 -0200

Salvete.

I agree with Sulla, and I really think this could be an interesing
experience.

It could be on the chat room, everybody watching they talk and aking them
some questions, just like a Market Day.

Valete.
______________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@yahoo.com.br
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ#: 75873373
______________________________________________



-----Mensagem original-----
De: L. Cornelius Sulla [mailto:alexious@earthlink.net]
Enviada em: terça-feira, 12 de novembro de 2002 12:33
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Debates


Avete Omnes,

How about having some political debates? I think this would be a good
opportunity for those of us who might be undecided to get to question each
candidate and find out where each of them stand.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Enviada por GNBS através do MSO2K.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 19/9/2002


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Senate Voting Results
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:45:48 -0300 (ART)

Tribunis Plebis Marcus Arminius Maior Quiritibus SPD


Senate Voting Results 12/11

The Senate has finished its latest session, and the
votes have been tallied, as below.
The following 17 Senatores cast votes. They are
referred to below by their initials, and are listed in
alphabetical order by nomen:

Marcus Arminius Maior (MAM)
Marcus Cassius Julianus (MCJ)
Patricia Cassia (PC)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (LCSF)
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus (LEC)
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (CFQ)
Quintus Fabius Maximus (QFM)
Caius Flavius Diocletianus (CFD)
Antonius Gryllus Graecus (AGG)
Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonius (AICPM)
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus (DIPI)
Titus Labienus Fortunatus (TLF)
Gaius Marius Merullus (CMM)
Marcus Minucius Audens (MMA)
Marcus Octavius Germanicus (MOG)
Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus (LSAO)
Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato (ATMC)

The following senatores did not vote:
Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Gaius Tullius Triumphius Cicero


"UTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item,
"ANTIQUO" or "NEGAT" is a vote against, and "ABSTINEO"
is an abstention.

The schedule:
Debate begins at 18:00 CST Monday (01:00 Roman Time
Tuesday 11/5).
Voting begins at 18:01 CST Friday (01:01 Roman Time
Saturday 11/9).
Voting ends at 18:01 CST Monday (01:01 Roman Time
Tuesday 11/12).


The items for consideration are as follows:

-----

ITEM I. Election of Curule Aedile Suffectus.
Candidates:

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Result: D. Iunius Silanus received 4 votes; Gn.
Equitius Marinus received 13 votes. Congratulations,
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, Aedilis Curule suffectus of
Nova Roma.

MAM : Gn. Equitius Marinus.
MCJ : Gn. Equitius Marinus. I vote for Gn. Equitius
Marinus, although I believe that D. Iunius Silanus was
also a fine candidate for this position.
PC : Gn. Equitius Marinus. I vote for Gn. Equitius
Marinus, though with no prejudice against D. Iunius.
LCSF: D. Iunius Silanus.
LEC : Gn. Equitius Marinus.
CFQ : Gn. Equitius Marinus. I only wish that I could
vote for Honorable Decimus Iunius Silanus too. I have
worked with him in writing the Regula of a Sodalitas
Iurisprudentiae and he has shown a good gasp of legal
workings. My vote goes to Honorable Gnaeus Equitius
Marinus. He has been my Scriba for 2755 and I am
extremely satisfied with his work. This has convinced
me that he will be a very good Curule Aedile, a
position he has the outmost knowledge of about because
of his work in my Cohors Aedilis.
QFM : D. Iunius Silanus.
CFD : Gn. Equitius Marinus. A difficult choice. Both
are able and dedicated citizens, Marinus as staff
member of a current Curule Aedile, Silanus as
Propraetor Britannia. Marinus runs for this office in
the current elections, Silanus runs for Praetor. Since
Marinus is currently involved in the work of Curule
Aedile, he might be the better choice at this moment.
For Silanus, the position could be the first step into
central government work. Both have my support in their
runs, but to have continuity in the office, I prefer
Marinus at this moment.
AGG : Gn. Equitius Marinus.
AICPM: Gn. Equitius Marinus.
DIPI: D. Iunius Silanus. I vote for Decimus Iunius
Silanus. I have been impressed by his devotion to Nova
Roma and intelligence. He would make a fine Curule
Aedile.
TLF : Gn. Equitius Marinus. This was not an easy
choice!
CMM : D. Iunius Silanus.
MMA : Gn. Equitius Marinus. This gentleman has
served as my senior Libraii in the Militarium for over
a year. He has been selected as my
Acting-Cornicularius during the absence of Commander
Casca of the VIth Legion. He has worked very hard in
this task, keeping me appraised of schedules, and
doing research for decisions to be made by the
Sodalitas Militarium. He is an extremely perceptive
individual, and is moved by the same principles which
move me, Honor, Dignity, and Truthfullness. I am
extremely impressed with this gentleman in all aspects
of his service to me, and I am more than proud to be
able to cast my vote for him, and to appraise others
of his excellent service as well.
MOG : Gn. Equitius Marinus.
LSAO: Gn. Equitius Marinus.
ATMC: Gn. Equitius Marinus.



ITEM II. Election of Praetor Suffectus. Candidates:

Senatrix Patricia Cassia
Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus

Result: Senatrix Patricia Cassia received 14 votes;
Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus received 2 votes;
ABSTINEO: one vote. Congratulations, Senatrix Patricia
Cassia, Praetora suffecta of Nova Roma.

MAM : Patricia Cassia.
MCJ : Patricia Cassia. Usually I abstain from such
votes. In this particular case I break that tradition
and vote for Patricia Cassia. I am quite certain that
Q. Fabius could handle this position admirably (as he
as done in all positions held so far). In this case I
am very familiar with Patricia's years of experience
in moderating lists, and feel that such experience is
needed after recent events.
PC : Patricia Cassia. I vote for myself, but offer
my respect and thanks to Quintus Fabius for his
willingness to volunteer.
LCSF: Q. Fabius Maximus
LEC : Patricia Cassia.
CFQ : Patricia Cassia. My vote goes to Senatrix
Illustra Patricia Cassia. This position includes the
position of Moderator of the main list, a position
that Illustra Patricia Cassia has held before and
which I think she is extremly suited for. She also has
been a citizen for a very long time and over and over
shown herself to have good gasp of the legislation of
Nova Roma and how to handle the relationshhip between
citizens.
QFM : Abstineo.
CFD : Patricia Cassia.
AGG : Q. Fabius Maximus.
AICPM: Patricia Cassia.
DIPI: Patricia Cassia. I vote for Patricia Cassia.
This was a very hard choice, both of these are quite
capable people. As the main task for the rest of year
for this position will be list moderation I can think
of no better moderator than Cassia.
TLF : Patricia Cassia. Another difficult decision,
made only slightly easier by Cassia's excellent record
in list moderation.
CMM : Patricia Cassia.
MMA : Patricia Cassia. The Senatrix Patricia Cassia
has since my entrance into Nova Roma, been well-known
for her even-handed views and discretion. She
carefully weights the values of her decisions and once
having made her decision is quick and decisive to act.
She has steadfastly maintained a fair and balanced
outlook on her duties and responsibilities within Nova
Roma. I have served under her guidance as a junior
Quaestor, and have learned much about my duties in
that position. She has been a kind and trusted friend
to all in Nova Roma, and she has as well been
extremely effective in the duties as a former List
Moderator. She has been steadfast in her duties as a
Senatrix, and has the experience and the desire to
serve Nova Roma in order to fulfill the task as a
Praetor, and take the trouble to do it well, and
without an unbalanced view toward any NR Citizen, or
any proposal to come before her for a decision.
MOG : Patricia Cassia.
LSAO: Patricia Cassia. A difficult choice between
two distinguished and capable individuals. I note that
to be the opposite situation to what I am invariably
faced with in macronational elections. Why is that?
ATMC: Patricia Cassia. This was very difficult as I
know that both Senators are very capable of filling
this position, and I have great respect for both.
However, I can only vote for one.



ITEM III. Establish office of Princeps Senatus and
define qualifications

According to Consul M. Octavius: "Item III is
withdrawn; please do not vote on it. A revised version
may be presented later this month or next."

Item was withdrawn for later consideration.



ITEM IV. Annual Membership Fee Rate Adjustment

1. Section II of the Senatus Consultum on Taxation
(July 2754) is hereby superceded with the following:
II. A. Each citizen eighteen years of age or older is
hereby assessed an annual tax of one three-thousandth
of the per-capita GDP of his nation of residence as
shown in the CIA World Factbook, using the most recent
version available on the CIA web site.
[ COMMENT: currently this ranges from $2.16 (Brazil)
to $12.06 (USA); some other countries: Spain $6.00;
Germany $7.80; Italy $7.36 ]
B. In order that the amounts may be more manageable in
local currencies, the Consuls may, by edict, alter the
amount for any country by up to 20%, upwards or
downwards; adjustments greater than 20% may be made by
Senatus Consultum only.
C. The Consuls' Quaestores will compile and publish a
list of rates before the start of the collection
period.
2. The following is added to the Senatus Consultum on
Taxation as new Sections V and VI:
V. Governors of Provinciae may receive authorization
to collect the annual tax from citizens of their
provinciae by providing the Senate with the following:
1. Proof of identity, in the form of copies of
macronational government-issued identification cards,
driving licenses or passports.
2. Written agreement that all money collected is the
property of Nova Roma and will be sent to the Senate
on demand, and that a list of citizens who have paid
will be provided to the Censores
within one month after the collection period has
ended.
3. A description of preferred methods of payment
(money order, electronic transfer, etc.) and the
address (postal or electronic) to which payments
should be sent. These payment instructions will be
published on the Nova Roma web site and mailing lists.
VI. Governors who have received authorization to
accept tax payments, as defined in Section V, may keep
one half of funds collected for use within the
province; this money remains the property of Nova Roma
but may be spent by the provincial governor on
activities that benefit Nova Roma. The remaining half,
minus transfer fees, must be transferred to the
Senate.

Item PASSED *unanimously*. Uti Rogas (Yes): 17 votes;
Antiquo (No):0 votes.

MAM : Uti Rogas.
MCJ : Uti Rogas.
PC : Uti Rogas.
LCSF: Uti Rogas.
LEC : Uti Rogas.
CFQ : Uti Rogas. A very good proposal, although I
ask myself if some citizens in Northern America and
Western Europe couldn't pay more.
QFM : Uti Rogas. This is a stopgap measure which
means that we must raise taxes for the affluent
provinces eventually. I do not believe that 10 people
in a province paying 1.25 is much different than one
person paying the 12.00.
CFD : Uti Rogas. A great step in the right
direction, to ensure justice in taxation.
AGG : Uti Rogas.
AICPM: Uti Rogas.
DIPI: Uti Rogas.
TLF : Uti Rogas.
CMM : Uti Rogas. I vote to approve the adjustment,
which I think results in a more practical and fair tax
regime for Nova Roma as a whole.
MMA : Uti Rogas.
MOG : Uti Rogas.
LSAO: Uti Rogas. I still object in principle to any
assumption that the average wealth of a nation can be
assumed to be a fair indicator of the wealth of each
of its individual citizens. However, I doubt there is
any really "fair" system that could be practically
implemented, so this one must serve.
ATMC: Uti Rogas.



ITEM V. Payment of $237 to Provincia Nova Britannia
for "Roman Market Day" expenses.

We learned several lessons from this year's event
which will allow us to plan more successfully for
future events. The first is that this area has a much
greater appetite for our event than we realized! This
realization will require changing some of our original
plans (for instance, substituting a food vendor for
the "dayboard" and re-evaluating the admission fee).
Also, some expenses for this event, such as signage
and coolers, can be reused in future years, and the
T-shirts and flags did not sell out, so we have some
to bring to future events.
When it became clear that we would have a surplus for
the day, it was decided to invite the performers
(gladiators and re-enactors), many of whom had come
long distances and who often are able to charge fees
for their performances, to dinner as a way of thanking
them for their service. A separate dinner was held
later for the kitchen volunteers, non-Nova Roman
friends who consented to be drafted into service for
the day. After the event, we received a call from the
site owner, asking that we pay for steam-cleaning the
carpets in the building, stained by dropped food.
While these expenses put the event in the red, they
also built and sustained positive relationships with
people who are necessary for a successful second year.

PRE-EVENT EXPENSES
Food 532
Site fee 200
Misc (cups, plates, forks, signage, etc.) 109
Change for NR table and gate 250
T-shirts and tote bags 530
Supplies for children's activities 20
Total 1641
REVENUE
Gate + NR table 2191
Surplus 550
POST-EVENT EXPENDITURES
Dinner for re-enactors 450
Dinner for kitchen volunteers 167
Steam-cleaning carpets at site 170
Total 787
Cost overrun 237

Item PASSED *unanimously*. Uti Rogas (Yes): 17 votes;
Antiquo (No):0 votes.

MAM : Uti Rogas.
MCJ : Uti Rogas. What can I say but Uti Rogas! Nova
Roma got more attention with this event than we have
with the last three years at "Roman Days" in MD
combined.
PC : Uti Rogas. See you at Roman Market Day 2003!
LCSF: Uti Rogas.
LEC : Uti Rogas. However, future events should not
be held in carpeted venue when food and drink are
served, and volunteers and reenactors should chip in
for the food as we do at Roman Days. We've had people
come from as far away as California, Louisiana, and
Florida and they have chipped in for the banquet.
CFQ : Uti Rogas. A reasonable proposal.
QFM : Uti Rogas. I was not exactly sure what this
was for, was it for cleaning damages? I believe
Cassius Nerva and I paid for the 2001 after event and
it came to under 50.00. We should have a budget item
of 100.00 earmarked for this, each year, and if it
goes over budget the people attending the event should
contribute to make the overage.
CFD : Uti Rogas.
AGG : Uti Rogas.
AICPM: Uti Rogas.
DIPI: Uti Rogas. This was a great event and worth
every penny.
TLF : Uti Rogas. This is exactly the sort of thing
we should be using our budget for.
CMM : Uti Rogas.
MMA : Uti Rogas. This was the first event as the
Roman Market Days in Wells, Maine. Many things were
learned about how to put on a Roman Event, and I have
been most pleased to discuss the event in detailed
reports to NR. I am sure that these many lessons
learned will be applied in following events, as the
Event Coordinator's have been extremely diligent in
requesting ideas from all NR Citizens who took the
time to contribute such. I have great hopes for the
2003 "Roman Market Days" Event, and I fully trust the
organizers of this event to make the changes necessary
to make next year's event even more effective and more
financially stable in the myriad of decisions that
have to be made to put such a show on, and to make it
the first time success that was achieved, as few other
such events have been able to match.
MOG : Uti Rogas. I consider this money extremely
well spent, and commend the Senators and Citizens
involved for a successful event.
LSAO: Uti Rogas.
ATMC: Uti Rogas. This should be done as Nova
Britannia certainly get us good exposure, and they go
to a lot of effort to put this on. Well done to all
those contributing to Roman Days.



Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A little bit of support - Fortunatus for consul and Arminius for praetor!!!
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:23:31 -0300 (ART)

Salve,

The elections have just started and I´ll do a ´mounth of urne´ campaign!

T. Labienus Fortunatus has my fully support on running for consul. He has awesome virtues to do a great consulship. He did his work as praetor in silence, without much noise and we need somebody as him, working on the right time. See the archives. Salve, Fortunate consul! Fauste consulship for you!

And my dearest paterfamilias and governor, Marcus Arminius Maior, has my support on running for praetor. His technical capabilities and NR law knowledge are unbeatable! Maior sure is the greatest. He seems silent, but also works on the right time. And difficultly someone knows more than he about NR. If we want a praetor that works and don´t do politics a lot, vote on Arminius Maior. If we want that this kind of praetor be elected consul, vote on Labienus Fortunatus for consul.

And for questor, sure I support that excelent citizen L. Arminius Faustus (I´ve dealed sometime with him, he is a somewhat nice guy). But with the friends Apolonio Scipio and Salix Davianus running also for questor, even I myself am afraid to lose my OWN vote! Nova Roma growing? Faustus is the man!

And finishing, fellow plebeians, the shame of just one candidate must be cleared! Arminius Faustus for Plebeian Aedile!



Vale bene in pacem deorum,



L. Arminius Faustus

Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae, scriba tribuni plebis.

Member of Decuriae Interpretes - (portuguese chair)

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html



Se de ócio estou, divirto-me escrevendo,

Entre os defeitos meus, este enumero...

Satira Quarta, Horácio



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:14:28 EST

In a message dated 11/12/02 8:29:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
christer.edling@telia.com writes:


> The first is to all the candidates for magistracies
> >which include the power of veto (Tribunes, Praetors
> >and Consuls, I believe): What are the views of the
> >candidates on the 'gens reform' bill which was
> >recently put to the Senate, and how would they react
> >if the same bill were to be proposed again during
> >their term of office?

Salvete

I would first like to hear from the citizens if such a reform is needed.
Granted it is a-historical, but we have been operating under it since our
inception. And it is not like this is the only thing we do here in Nova Roma
that is a-historical.
The vocal people AGAINST the current Gens system numbered 10 or so.
Following the rule of thumb that for every person heard, there are ten in
agreement, that gives around 100 people. Our population active and inactive
is around 1400. I'd like to see if indeed the majority of the people do want
a change.
My instinct says no, that they are happy with the status quo. Before we
start a major upheaval and do not be deceived, it will be a major upheaval, I
spent three weeks writing a measure in concert with Pompia Cornelia, and
Titius Labienus, while was imperfect, solved many of the problems of
implementation, and still there were gliches.
If the majority of the people wish that it is to be done than the Senate will
do it.
As for my veto as Consul, I'd only use it against a Gens reform that did not
take into consideration all the affected parties' rights. That to me, is a
very important.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
Candidate for Consul


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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:20:54 +0100

Salve Sulla,

>The second is to those citizens who have announced
>their intention to withold their taxes (I forget who
>these were or how many of them, or else I would ask
>them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
>their votes in the coming elections?

Caeso: "I would _never_ threaten to not pay my taxes!"

Sulla: "Senator Caeso, are you saying that people who follow in the
traditions of Ghandi (who opposed the British Salt Tax), Martin Luther King
Jr (who was in the Alabama Committe that initiatied the Montgomery Bus
Boycott) and the American Founding Fathers (who protested British Taxes) are
wrong? And they (the examples listed above) should have been law abiding
citizens when they felt their rights and freedoms were threatened? "

I am assuming that you've replied to Caeso Fabius Quintilianus' email
because most of us remember that you were one of the people who refused to
pay their taxes. In any case, I think that you said it in the heat of the
moment and I'm sure that you've reconsidered such a hasty remark. In any
case, if in defence of your original statement not to pay taxes, you are
using the examples above, then I believe that you are a bit off target. When
you announced on Oct 30 that you would not pay your taxes, your rights in NR
were not being threatened at all.
You stated that you would not pay your taxes because you believed that
some people on this list didn't respect Pietas, as you wrote in your email
of October 30 number 3997, which was immedaitaely responding to Sextus
Apollonius Scipio's email requesting Pietas on the main list.

Sulla: Its hard to deal with the virtues when you have people who obviously
have not read them, understand them or even know they exist. Yet they call
themselves Roman.

Scipio: I did not see a lot of PIETAS lately. Being Roman means acting as a
Roman and not only having a name.
To those that did not respect PIETAS, I propose to think about it as their
behaviour is an offence to the soul of the Roman citizens, past and present.
Therefore, I propose to those who were disrespectful to apologize on the
Forum as a Roman would do.

Sulla: I am sorry but its going to take substantially more than that. I
hereby join Nerva and will refuse to pay my taxes next year.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina




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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Congratulations!!
From:	"danedwardsuk" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:14:29 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

My congratulations to honourable Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, Curule Aedile of Nova Roma. I'm sure you will do an excellent job both this year and next.

Congratulations too, of course, to Patrica Cassia, Praetrix of Nova Roma. The respublica will be well served in the following months.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Vacant Political Positions
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:01:24 -0300 (ART)

Salvete Quirites

--- rexmarciusnr <RexMarcius@aol.com> escreveu: > ---
In Nova-Roma@y..., "Quintus Lanius Paulinus"
> <mjk@d...> wrote:
[..]
> My same question
> > for the 2 vacant Quaestor and other positions.
> >
>
> Regarding Plebeian magistrates, a law exists to
> cover a situation
> when no candidate declares in the December election
> (Lex Grylla). The
> Senate can in that case appoint a magistrate. Well
> we have at least
> one candidate...

MAIOR: Yes, the text of this lex is a bit tricky. :)
This year, the Great Election will be in november,
instead of december, and we have at least one
candidate, but less than the vacant positions.
Is my intention to call another election in December
to fill the remaining Aedilis Plebis position (and
perhaps a run-off election for Tribunus, if
necessary).

> Vacant Quaestor positions (and other non Plebeian
> Magistrates) on the
> other hand should be filled by new elections unless
> it is three
> months or less until the end of his/her term (then
> the Senate can
> fill the vacancy with an appointment, see our
> Constitution V.d.).
>
> Ave et Vale
> Marcus Marcius Rex

Vale
Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:31:04 -0000

SNIPPED
>The first is to all the candidates for magistracies
> which include the power of veto (Tribunes, Praetors
> and Consuls, I believe): What are the views of the
> candidates on the 'gens reform' bill which was
> recently put to the Senate, and how would they react
> if the same bill were to be proposed again during
> their term of office?<


Our current gens system is not historical and I support efforts to
reform it, however, I would not favor any proposal that would force
exisitng gens relationships to change over the objections of the
gens members.

The Tribune's veto (in my opinion) should only be used to protect
the people from abuses of power. If a gens reform law was
promulgated that forced civies to change their current gens
arrangement against their will, as Tribune I would consider a veto
if so appealed to by those cives.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Consular Quaestor
Candidate for Tribune


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:45:16 EST

In a message dated 11/12/02 12:17:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
christer.edling@telia.com writes:


> This is just cheap demagogery Illustrus Junior Consul! You are
> implying that I would not defend the rights of others. Once again You
> are jumping to conclusions here. I have heard of citizens accusing
> You of being a threat to their rights, but I don't know of anyone who
> has referred to you as a defender of civil rights.
>
>

And so the campaign begins. Welcome to Roman way of electing people.
Let the mud slinging commence!
As for the people who are disgusted by this, remember, we are a
reconstruction of the Roman republic, and this will open a window to how it
was, except we are much tamer...)

Q. Fabius Maximus


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Tax Comments
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:36:56 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

In a recent on-list discussion, the aspect of taxes and the threat not
to pay them has surfaced. In my humble estimation, the determination of
whether to pay taxes or not, certainly lies with the individual.
However, any individual who has been entrusted by the Citizens of Nova
Roma to hold a high office therein, and who wields his intention not to
pay his taxes as a threat to the orderly progression of Nova Roma's
ahead movement, seems to me to be tending on the side of a serious view
of self-importance, far beyond the intention of his electorate, at the
very least. I would not wish to dwell upon the worst-case
possibilities!!

The recently proposed ideas of Tax Problems in North America , India,
and other areas are so complicated and so long in developing, and are so
conveluted in the pursuence of complete understanding that eminant
historians have written hundreds of books, documents, and other data
regarding such without truly making any of it a more understandable
topic. As Citizen Drusus has indicated, perhaps that area can be better
regulated to the off-topic portion of our communications. My only
comment on such is to invoke such complex situations in the relatively
simplistic setting of Nova Roma is comparable to trying to slay a
mosquito with a 10 lb. sledge, not to mention the inappropriateness of
such introductions!!!

In the aspect of who is a person best suited for the effort of being
concerned with the rights of citizens to protest, I direct your
attention back in time to those instances when selected indviduals
desired to leave a given gens and were denied that privaledge by the
paterfamilius. In the early days of NR there was a Senate determination
in the act of this person in lying to the electorate. True, while these
were occurances in the past, it is, I believe indicative of the present
question, in which a challenge dealing with similar concerns was issued
to Senator Quintillianus.. I further direct your attention to the more
recent outburst defaming Nova Roma as a false joke, and in leaving the
Main List in frustration. There have, of course, been other areas of
concern, but a clear trail of determination is certainly there if one
chooses to look for it, without moving deeper into the question.

However, all that aside, Senator Quintillianus is a Candidate for
Consul. He has been and is supported by many of those who have also
labored long for the Citizens of Nova Roma. Senator Quintillianus
through his easy manner and his ability to garner strength through
honest pursuasion, and excellent performance, has concieved, labored at
extensively, and completed several worthy projects in his time in Nova
Roma, aimed at the betterment of his fellow citizens and and of Nova
Roma as a whole. He has been honored by those citizens for his efforts.
However, the Junior Consul has seen fit to criticise those honors by
implying that they have been awarded out of some kind of collaborating
association, and have criticized his other creations in a rather petty
fashion. However, since these negative comments seem to have been cast
aside pretty much by the reasoning citizens of NR, and perhaps these
too, may be put aside as the Tax arguments, and past problems have been.

Perhaps the better emphasis would be the support that Senator
Quintillianus has recieved not only from the Europeans Members of Nova
Roma, but from those around the world as well. I have visited Europe
several times in recent years, and lived in Spain for an extended
period. While the Euopeans have a different set of cultural ideas, I
have met none, who have not had a highly developed sense of right and
wrong. Nor have I been associated with any, from the Spanish field
laborers to the highest levels of society including the present Spanish
King and Queen, that I did not like. I think perhaps that this abilty
to draw upon the friendships, of widely differing cultures, but
appealing to the surprisingly common values of the gentlemen and women
of all countries will prove to be in the best interests of Nova Roma in
the days to come, as she faces those who distrust religious beliefs
other than thier own, those who would attempt to divide those NR
citizens who reside in different countries. and those who promise much
but never seem to be able to deliver on those promises.

It is clear that here is a past Magistrate who has done the work for
which he was elected by you and has apparenly by praise for such efforts
from all and asundary has done it well. Here is a gentleman who stands
so high in the minds of the Senate that he was admitted for his work and
efforts in Nova Roma before attaining the office of raetor or above.
So, here stands a man before you who has deliberatly taken his time to
become acquainted with Nova Roma, to demonstrate his worth and
effectiveness to the Citizens thereof, and who now asks for your support
in further serving Nova Roma intelligently an effectively as he has in
the past.

Personnally speaking, I believe that I will place my trust in a
gentleman of the first order, who has shown me a friendship based not on
the sameness of our culture, education, national identity, career
occupations, and environment but upon rather the basic principles which
we both hold dear. I believe that I shall support that person who has
labored mightily for Nova Roma, and who has completed his labors and has
then turned over to those he has worked with the running of these
projects. Finally, I believe I shall place my vote and my trust in a
gentleman who strives with great effort an humility to uphold the Roman
Virtues to which, we all to some degree, hold our allegiance.
Otherwise, why are we here?

In closing, my fellow citizens, I beg your leave to call your attention
to a genteman who has done all these things and who has done them well,
and who in so doing has retained his current friendships and gained the
respect and friendship of many more. I am pleased to speak, of course,
of the Candidate for Consul, Senator C. Quintillianus.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens


A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!


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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] A little bit of support - Fortunatus & Caeso for consul
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:34:43 +0100

Salve L. Arminius Faustus ,

[>] T. Labienus Fortunatus has my fully support on running for consul. He
has awesome [>] virtues to do a great consulship. He did his work as praetor
in silence, without [>] much noise and we need somebody as him, working
on the right time. See the archives.

Your endorsement was short and sweet, but very effective :-) I'll second
your endorsement of T. Labienus Fortunatus and would like to add that in
January, I hope that I will be able to refer to both Fortunatus and the
Honorable Caeso Fabius Quintilianus as the new Consuls of Nova Roma!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] To Congratulate and to release a Scriba.
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:52:12 +0100

Salvete Senatus Romanus, Salve Illustra Patricia Cassia and
Illustris Gnaeus Equitius Marinus!

I Congratulate the Senate of Nova Roma to have chosen such a
qualified Praetrix Suffecta as Illustra Patricia Cassia. I also
Congratulate Patricia Cassia to the appointment as Praetrix Suffecta.

I Congratulate the Senate of Nova Roma to have chosen such a
qualified Aedilis Curule Suffectus as Illustris Gnaeus Equitius
Marinus. I also Congratulate Illustris Gnaeus Equitius Marinus to the
appointment as my colleauge as Curule Aedile.

I now publicly thank Illustris Gnaeus Equitius Marinus for his
fantastic work for me in my Cohors Aedilis as my Scriba Aedilis
Iuridicialis Primus. He has served me with sincere duty, sharing his
deep knowledge with the whole Cohors. I am sure that our future work
together will be as fruitful as ever.

I hereby release Illustris Gnaeus Equitius Marinus from his duty as
my Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus. Until the end of the year we
will now serve Nova Roma as colleagues.
--

Valete

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
The Campaign-site of "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Consul 2756"
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Integrity, Accountability, Reform"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate Voting Results
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:08:45 -0800 (PST)

Salve,
I Would like to publicly thank the Senior Consul for
bringing a modified version of my sugestion for making
Nova Roma's Tax system fairer before the Senate, and
to thank all the Senators who voted for it.


--- M Arminius Maior <marminius@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
SNIP
>
> ITEM IV. Annual Membership Fee Rate Adjustment
>
> 1. Section II of the Senatus Consultum on Taxation
> (July 2754) is hereby superceded with the following:
> II. A. Each citizen eighteen years of age or older
> is
> hereby assessed an annual tax of one
> three-thousandth
> of the per-capita GDP of his nation of residence as
> shown in the CIA World Factbook, using the most
> recent
> version available on the CIA web site.
> [ COMMENT: currently this ranges from $2.16 (Brazil)
> to $12.06 (USA); some other countries: Spain $6.00;
> Germany $7.80; Italy $7.36 ]
> B. In order that the amounts may be more manageable
> in
> local currencies, the Consuls may, by edict, alter
> the
> amount for any country by up to 20%, upwards or
> downwards; adjustments greater than 20% may be made
> by
> Senatus Consultum only.
> C. The Consuls' Quaestores will compile and publish
> a
> list of rates before the start of the collection
> period.
> 2. The following is added to the Senatus Consultum
> on
> Taxation as new Sections V and VI:
> V. Governors of Provinciae may receive authorization
> to collect the annual tax from citizens of their
> provinciae by providing the Senate with the
> following:
> 1. Proof of identity, in the form of copies of
> macronational government-issued identification
> cards,
> driving licenses or passports.
> 2. Written agreement that all money collected is the
> property of Nova Roma and will be sent to the Senate
> on demand, and that a list of citizens who have paid
> will be provided to the Censores
> within one month after the collection period has
> ended.
> 3. A description of preferred methods of payment
> (money order, electronic transfer, etc.) and the
> address (postal or electronic) to which payments
> should be sent. These payment instructions will be
> published on the Nova Roma web site and mailing
> lists.
> VI. Governors who have received authorization to
> accept tax payments, as defined in Section V, may
> keep
> one half of funds collected for use within the
> province; this money remains the property of Nova
> Roma
> but may be spent by the provincial governor on
> activities that benefit Nova Roma. The remaining
> half,
> minus transfer fees, must be transferred to the
> Senate.
>
> Item PASSED *unanimously*. Uti Rogas (Yes): 17
> votes;
> Antiquo (No):0 votes.
>
> MAM : Uti Rogas.
> MCJ : Uti Rogas.
> PC : Uti Rogas.
> LCSF: Uti Rogas.
> LEC : Uti Rogas.
> CFQ : Uti Rogas. A very good proposal, although I
> ask myself if some citizens in Northern America and
> Western Europe couldn't pay more.
> QFM : Uti Rogas. This is a stopgap measure which
> means that we must raise taxes for the affluent
> provinces eventually. I do not believe that 10
> people
> in a province paying 1.25 is much different than one
> person paying the 12.00.
> CFD : Uti Rogas. A great step in the right
> direction, to ensure justice in taxation.
> AGG : Uti Rogas.
> AICPM: Uti Rogas.
> DIPI: Uti Rogas.
> TLF : Uti Rogas.
> CMM : Uti Rogas. I vote to approve the adjustment,
> which I think results in a more practical and fair
> tax
> regime for Nova Roma as a whole.
> MMA : Uti Rogas.
> MOG : Uti Rogas.
> LSAO: Uti Rogas. I still object in principle to
> any
> assumption that the average wealth of a nation can
> be
> assumed to be a fair indicator of the wealth of each
> of its individual citizens. However, I doubt there
> is
> any really "fair" system that could be practically
> implemented, so this one must serve.
> ATMC: Uti Rogas.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:19:49 -0500 (EST)

Aye, Senator Maximus;

The campaign begins, indeed and with a vengeance!!!. However, for my
part, I would prefer to remain a "tamer" version of our Roman ancestors,
rather than facing being beaten up on the way home for my views, open
sewage drains, minimal police and fire protecton, primitive medical
facilities, and all that goes along with the darker corners of ancient
civilizations. In my view, such are fine for study and research, but
for my part, wrapped around the point of someone's lance-head in the
middle of some god-forsaken desert somewhere back of beyond, does not
fit my present day view of desireability. am pleased to pursue the
better elements of Ancient Rome, But I do not really eed the seamier
ones!!!

I am pleased to use words, and past determinations, as a limit to such
campaigning rather than deal with the social problems and limitations
brought on by slavery and the suppression of women, as well as many
others.

I am encouraged by your words regarding the Gens Question. As you know,
my involvement with such was to insure the freedonm of choice within the
Gens and to relieve the pressures on the Censors as identified by them
early on. I am still awaiting the final response of the people, as you
have indicated, as to thier ideas on the Gens Question.

As opposed to that view, however, the concerns of Senators Julianus,
Labienus, Octavius, Quintillianus and others give me pause. They too
have a deep understanding of the potential for future problems in this
area, and I fear that my grasp of the fundamentals of those potentials
are not clear in my mind.

It then occurs to me, Senator Maximus, that perhaps you, Senator
Labienus, and Senator Quintillianus might wish to explain the details of
each of your views to the Citizens of Nova Roma for their edification.
This by laying out your reasoning in clear and uncomplicated
determinations, and your plans in the case of Citizen support of
rejection of the plan. After all, as you have wisely indicated, perhaps
the final decision on the Gens Question should have a hefty input from
those who will be most effected.

It further occurs to me, that such a simplistic idea is much preferable
to asking the NR Citizens To respond to "polls" made up by people who
have few ideas, or skills in the determining of poll questions, or the
rather complicated process of evaluating and gathering information for
such.

Respectfully

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Senate Voting Results
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:23:42 -0000

M Arminius Maior posted:

> ITEM I. Election of Curule Aedile Suffectus.
> [...] Congratulations,
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, Aedilis Curule suffectus of
> Nova Roma.

My thanks to the Senate for this honor, and also to Decimus Iunius
Silanus, for stepping forward and offering his services to our
micronation in her time of need. I salute you sir, and thank you
from the bottom of my heart for volunteering yourself. I hope that
I may be able to call on you for advice from time to time.

I shall ascend the rostra within the hour, to swear my oath of
office.

-- Marinus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Oath of Office as Curule Aedile
From:	equitius_marinus@yahoo.com
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:49:36 -0500

I, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus (William C. Gawne), do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the
best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, swear
to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings,
and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, swear to uphold and defend the Religio
Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in
a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, swear to protect and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, further swear to fulfill the obligations
and responsibilities of the office of Curule Aedile to the best of my
abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Curule Aedile and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Given this 12th day of November in the year of the Consulship
of Marcus Octavius Germanicus and Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix,
the 2755th year a.u.c.

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Congratulations!!
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:56:57 -0000

Decimus Iunius Silanus wrote:

> My congratulations to honourable Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, Curule
> Aedile of Nova Roma.

My dear Silanus, thank you. I hope you have already seen my
note of thanks in my reply to the Senate. I have absolute
confidence that you would have carried out the duties of the
office well and surely had the Senate chosen you, and I thank
you again for offering your services and yourself to our state.

> I'm sure you will do an excellent job both this year and next.

Thank you for your confidence. I shall endeavor to be worthy of it.

> Congratulations too, of course, to Patrica Cassia, Praetrix of
> Nova Roma. The respublica will be well served in the following
> months.

Indeed, it will be. Congratulations Senatrix and Praetrix Cassia.
You have accrued another honor to gens Cassia, Nova Roma's founding
gens. Furthermore, you honor us all by your continued service to
our beloved Nova Roma.

-- Marinus


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Vacant Political Positions
From:	"Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:58:57 -0500

<snip>
Of course, these vacancies won't remain vacant forever. Either we'll have
another election for these two positions in December, or next year's
Consuls and Tribunes will call one early in the year. Perhaps by then
some citizens who joined less than six months ago, or were born slightly
less than 21 years ago, will then be eligible to run.
</snip>

Maybe not slightly less, but maybe at that point (after February 1) the
people might want me for an aedile, and maybe (though I don't think the
Senate likes me that much, nor thinks I'm worthy of it), just maybe I can
get the Senate to allow me to run for the office. But that's all
provisional.

Anyway, I'd like to know if you think I could handle the position well. So,
if you don't mind, let me know privately, over at postumius @ gmx.net.
Thanks! And let me reiterate, PRIVATELY!!!

Optime Valete,

Sp. Postumius Auli nepos Tubertus
Retiarius Lacuum Magnorum
Scriba Curatoris Araneae
Discipolus Anno Tertio Linguae Latinae
Civis Lacuum Magnorum Provinciae
Civis Patriae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima

"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" -- Q. Horati Flacci


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: To Congratulate and to release a Scriba.
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:09:35 -0000

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus writes:

[...]

> I Congratulate the Senate of Nova Roma to have chosen such a
> qualified Aedilis Curule Suffectus as Illustris Gnaeus Equitius
> Marinus. I also Congratulate Illustris Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> to the appointment as my colleauge as Curule Aedile.

Thank you, Caeso Fabius. It is an honor to sit beside you in
the curule chair now.

> I now publicly thank Illustris Gnaeus Equitius Marinus for his
> fantastic work for me in my Cohors Aedilis as my Scriba Aedilis
> Iuridicialis Primus. He has served me with sincere duty, sharing his
> deep knowledge with the whole Cohors.

Again, thank you. It has been an honor and (mostly) a pleasure.

> I am sure that our future work together will be as fruitful
> as ever.

I have every confidence that it will be.

> I hereby release Illustris Gnaeus Equitius Marinus from his duty as
> my Scriba Aedilis Iuridicialis Primus.

Thank you. As is traditional for a Roman leaving an office,
I ask that any who have issues with my performance of my duties
as Scriba Aedilis Iuridicalis Primus to the Senior Curule Aedile
please voice them now, that I may answer before the Senate and the
People for the performance of my duty.

-- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, Curule Aedile


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: My Congratulations
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:21:23 -0000

Marcus Minucius Audens writes:

> I am pleased to congratulate Senator Cassia, and the Honored
> Marinus on thier appointments.

Thank you so much, Senator Audens. We have accomplished a thing or
two over the years together, and I look forward to doing more with
you, and the Senate, and all the People for the good of Nova Roma.

-- Marinus


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:14:40 +0100 (CET)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Jamie.

--- Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk> escribió:
> Greetings everyone.
>
> I have been unexpectedly busy over the last few days,
> so I apologize for any threads I've left dangling:
> I'll catch up soon.
>
> However, noticing that voting will shortly commence, I
> wanted to ask two questions, whose answers may affect
> the way some people vote. At least, one of them would
> affect the way I would vote if I were able to (my
> citizenship will not be processed until after the
> polls close). Apologies if these issues have already
> been covered in messages I haven't yet caught up with.

It is always good to ask; especially to those that are asking for your
vote :-). As I am a candidate to the praetorship, I will answer your
questions.

> The first is to all the candidates for magistracies
> which include the power of veto (Tribunes, Praetors
> and Consuls, I believe): What are the views of the
> candidates on the 'gens reform' bill which was
> recently put to the Senate, and how would they react
> if the same bill were to be proposed again during
> their term of office? (Apologies to those who have
> touched on this question in their previous statements
> - it seems fairer to ask the same question to all
> candidates, even those who may feel they've already
> answered.)

I think that this won't come as a surprise to anyone, since in my term
as tribunus I have strongly supported the necessity of a gens reform. I
will refrain from commenting this necessity (there will be plenty of
time for that in the future), but you can be sure that I will not veto
any reasonable idea on this subject.

> The second is to those citizens who have announced their intention to
> withold their taxes (I forget who these were or how many of them, or
> else I would ask them privately): Do these citizens intend to cast
> their votes in the coming elections?

I intend to pay taxes next February. I intend to vote as well :-).

> Many thanks for your time,

You're welcome :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] My Congratulations
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:48:17 -0500 (EST)

I am pleased to congratulate Senator Cassia, and the Honored Marinus on
thier appointments. I am pleased to see both the citations from the
Senators and the quick response to the needs which were met by previous
actions.

I was also pleased to note the number of those Senators who praised
Senator Maximus and Master Silanus for thier past service to and within
Nova Roma. I was pleased to oppose Senator Maximus in a race some years
ago for Praetor, and was then pleased to later serve with him as a
Consular Colleague. Such is the lateral shifts in the political fields.
I am aware of the contributions of both Silanus and Marinus.

Unfortunately, one must make a decision upon whom to support, as all may
not serve in the same place at the same time. In making such decisions
it is necessary, I believe, to take into full consideration not only the
past effectiveness and efficiency of an individual, but also the past
behavior is situations other than straightforward service. Things such
a preferences, experience, age, methodology, attitude, previous actions,
respected opinons. Frankly, I find such final decisions to be not only
exhausting but also disappointing personnally, in that the decision to
support one individual means quite simply the decision not to support
another.

I suppose that the only salve for that kind of a wound is the knowledge
that to the best of any person's given ability, he or she has made a
choice that hopefully will result in decision down the line resulting in
the best for Nova Roma, and not just the best for the decision maker's
friends. That is a "hard row to hoe," as I have dealt with such, and
have lost friends because of it.

In closing, my congratulations to all who offered their services, and my
hopes for the successes for those who were chosen.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for condidates and a question for voters
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:59:14 +0100 (CET)

Salvete Quirites.

--- qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com escribió:

<<snipped>>

> I would first like to hear from the citizens if such a reform is
> needed.
> Granted it is a-historical, but we have been operating under it since
> our inception. And it is not like this is the only thing we do here
> in Nova Roma that is a-historical.
> The vocal people AGAINST the current Gens system numbered 10 or so.
> Following the rule of thumb that for every person heard, there are
> ten in agreement, that gives around 100 people. Our population
> active and inactive is around 1400. I'd like to see if indeed the
> majority of the people do want a change.
> My instinct says no, that they are happy with the status quo.

There is a way to know. If you let the People actually *vote* on a
proposal, you would know how many of them do support that proposal.

But as consul Sulla *vetoed* the presentation of such proposals to the
People, and *vetoed* as well the presentation of such proposals to the
Senate, with your constant and inconditional support in both occasions,
I guess we will have to believe in your "instinct".

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

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