Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] For Gens Reform,
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:33:14 -0500

Another possibility would be to send an automated message to the various patres and matres, were all they would have to do is respond to the e-mail and that would verify they are still active. If after two weeks of no response the Censors (or their designate) could send a personal e-mail. If still no response they could be removed.

I would implement it twice a year. January, and July?

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:10:24 US/Central, labienus@novaroma.org writes:

> The second, and most important, is the yearly registration of patres and matres
> familias, which is mandated by the Lex Cornelia de Tabulis Gentium
> Novaromanorum Agendis ( http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-02-27-
> i.html ). This yearly registration is our equivalent to
> the ancient census.
>
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Sponsorship Idea
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:58:30 -0800 (PST)

Salve, Spuri Postumi--

Sp. Postumius Tubertus said:

The lex itself, in my opinion, is quite reasonable.
However, why the need? I might ask this in reference
to myself. Am I in need of a sponsor? I like to
think I am a good citizen even though I have no
sponsor. I would also submit that I have quite a few
good examples (Marcus Cassius Julianus, M.
Octavius Germanicus, K. Fabius, Pompeia Cornelia,
Patricia Cassia, to name a few) to follow anyway, and
indeed do my best to follow their example. So again
I ask: Do I need a sponsor? Am I not capable of
becoming a good citizen on my own?

Just something to ponder.

Renata Corva responds:

::chuckle!:: Do I think you yourself need a sponsor?
Not at all. You have an impressive list of titles
below your name, and the fact that you have been
entrusted with those functions is quite sufficient
proof to me (if I needed proof) that you're a very
focused and mature individual.

Mainly, the hypothetical lex I put forth was meant to
abide by the spirit of current citizenship policy,
that being the requirement that citizens be at least
18 years of age and that parents may have their
children made citizens by acting on the childrens'
behalf. For the purposes of the hypothetical lex, the
sponsor, acting with the authority granted in the
permission statement, would stand in the place of the
impubere's parents for the purpose of citizenship.

My idea was also to discourage teenagers who are not
really serious about Nova Roma from joining. If a
teenager goes through the trouble of getting to know
NR folks before applying for citizenship, finds a
sponsor he respects, and gets parental permission to
participate, then that would show a high degree of
commitment and maturity on the teenager's part. Such a
person would likely be an active citizen, just as you
have been.

The stuff I included about 'ensuring the impubere's
safety in the public fora' stems from the fact that I
used to work in a parole office, and I have received
truly appalling spam. IOW, I'm paranoid. (g)

Having read that first draft, I can already see
several edits I would need to make, if it were a real
lex.

By the way, with regard to your status--I don't know
under what circumstances you joined Nova Roma, but I
would term you a 'prospective' or 'incipient' citizen.
I'm not sure what the term is for people who are on
the road toward becoming citizens of a country.

---
Renata Corva

=====
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Voting for who?
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:37:33 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

In this period you all are thinging to vote for one of another candidate...
You don't know who is the best?

VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE
QUINTILIANUS

During the last year I have worked very hard for Quintilianus as Quaestor in
his Cohors Aedilis. I'm proud to have did it and I'm very very happy to be
friend of Caeso. He have teached me how to live in Nova Roma, how to be a
politician, how to work in a big virtual team, he have teached me what means
the word "polite" and the most important word ... "friend".
About the work, I can say he is a very very wonderful and great chief. The
"swedish-mind" is full od ideas able to change everything. He have changed
the idea about the Magistracy becaming a real constant and serious job like
in the Ancient Rome. I can say I'm lucky to have worked with him organizing
ludi, events, awards, meeting, archeological and cultural projects and if
I'll be elected as Curule Aedile I'll try to emulate him and to continue the
wonderful work we have started.

In the same way I support the following gentlemen:

MARCUS OCTAVIUS GERMANICUS AS CENSOR
I thing Germanicus have been one of the best chief of our Res Publica during
the last years. He is a wonderful person and a skilled nova roman. I thing
we all have to say "thank you" to Marcus for the work in the past years as
Magistrate and Web Master.

GNAEUS EQUITIUS MARINUS AS CURULE AEDILE
I'm running for this Office, but I know I can't take votes from you all ...
BTW Marinus is my friend and I'll very happy if he'll be elected as Aedile.
I have worked with him serving Quintilianus and I have seen the skills of
this gentleman. I'll proud to work with him in a common and Office mixing
our Magistracies about legal and archeological projects!

MANIUS CONSTANTINUS SERAPIO AS QUAESTOR
There are several skilled and strong nova roman friends running for the
Quaestorship, but I have to get my ballot to my friend Serapio. We have
started togheter to "live" in Nova Roma and I have to thank him if now I'm
the Propraetor of Provincia Italia. If I should award him I'll appoint
"Pater Provinciae Italiae"! You all have to emulate this gentleman because
he's given the "life and soul" for Nova Roma! Good Luck my friend!

My vote too goes to my great friends
GNAEUS SALIX ASTUR AS PRAETOR
I even thing Astur is the more skilled politician of Nova Roma. He knows
everything about the nova roman system, laws and events and I see a "lighted
way" for him in our Res Publica
DIANA MORAVIA AVENTINA AS TRIBUNUS PLEBIS
TITUS OCTAVIUS PIUS AS CURATOR ARANEUM

Good luck to everybody

VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE
QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE
QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE
QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE
QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE
QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE
QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS VOTE
QUINTILIANUS VOTE QUINTILIANUS

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
§ VOTE ME AS CURULE AEDILE §
http://italia.novaroma.org/fac/index.htm
-------------------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Quaestor Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Cohors Aedilis C. Fabius Quintilianus -
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] LEG III AVG LIB pia vindex
From:	"MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS" <MLCRASSVS@aol.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:08:03 -0000

MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS QVIRITIBVS S.P.D.

AVETE,

At last! I have just completed my work on Africa's sole legion viz.
LEG III AVG LIB pia vindex for our new website on Roman Africa. The
article is with my colleagues for consideration.

I am sorry about the length of time it has taken but it has been a
labour of love!!

Its kept me out of the loop for a while, but I see I've arrived back
in Rome just in time to vote!! This will be my first election as a
Roman citizen. Please indulge a little electioneering on my part,
when I again commend my illustrious colleague Manius Constantinus
Serapio for Quaestorship!!

However, in the spirit of Roman fair play, I wish all the candidates
well!

VALETE

M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS
CIVIS NOVAE ROMAE

TVVS IN SODOLICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE
---------------------
AFRICA SEPTENTRIONALIS
http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html ;-)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: voting question
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:18:16 +0000 (GMT)

Iunius Palladius wrote (about the change to the
current voting system):

> I objected to
> this change at the time because I considered it a
> partial
> disenfranchisement of the voter but in retrospect it
> seems to have
> worked.

I wonder if there isn't a relatively easy way to test
the extent to which this system does 'disenfranchise'
people, and the extent to which the outcome of
elections mirrors the 'will of the people'. (This
isn't strictly related to the question of how many
votes per post people get, but more generally to the
question of how representative the voting-system is.)

Though my knowledge of such things is limited, it
strikes me that it might not be too hard to process
the votes cast in an election in two ways: first,
according to the real voting-system, to determine the
actual outcome, and secondly according to a simple
one-person-one-vote system. A comparison of the two
sets of results would show how far our voting-system
diverges from what the results we would expect to see
in a more straightforward ballot.

I can think of two objections to this (other than that
it would be extra work for the rogators: I don't know
how much extra it would be): first, that it might
cause confusion at the ballot-box and result in voters
making the wrong choices, and second, that it would
undermine a magistrate's authority if he or she were
seen to have been supported by only a minority of
voters. I suppose a way round this would be to have a
'fake' election using these two methods, but that
would be a huge hassle. Anyway, just a thought.

A less accurate version, I suppose, would be a simple
opinion poll. I'm surprised no one does those...

Jamie

=====

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Another Question for the Candidates
From:	"Spurius Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:22:16 -0500

Salve,

Jamie, I'm quite inclined to agree. Let's look at the constitution and what
it says shall we.

Paragraph II.b.1.

"Complete authority over their own personal and household rites, rituals,
and beliefs, pagan or otherwise; except where this Constitution mandates
participation in the rites of the Religio Romana, such as the case of
magistrates and Senators;"

So I do not have complete authority over my own religion.

II.b.2.

"The right and obligation to remain subject to the civil rights and laws of
the countries in which they reside and/or hold citizenship, regardless of
their status as dual citizens of Nova Roma;"

Whose laws, then, am I subject to? Certainly not that of America nor Nova
Roma.

II.b.3.

"The right to vote in elections as members of their various comitia on
matters brought before the People in such manner as described in this
Constitution;"

So I haven't the right to vote. And this one, of course, by vote of the
people.

II.b.4.

"The right to participate in all public forums and discussions, and the
right to reasonably expect such forums to be supported by the State. Such
communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the
State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the
Republic. Such officially sponsored forums may be expected to be reasonably
moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility;"

I guess this means I shouldn't be posting here. Or even subscribed to this
forum or any other, for that matter.

II.b.5.

"The right of provocatio; to appeal a decision of a magistrate that has a
direct negative impact upon that citizen to the comitia populi tributa;"

So, if a magistrate does any injustice upon myself, I can't plead it on my
own behalf? So what if I feel I may best bring my case before the comitia?
I'm still stuck (no offence meant to any citizen, I'm just making a point
here) with whatever citizen I can sucker into bringing it before the
comitia? Or is it not even cared about by the population?

I shan't go on for the obviousness that we are all seeing. I haven't any
rights, as I am under eighteen. But yet, I've been appointed scribe to two
people, who have not yet expressed any notion to me that I am not fufilling
my duties in those capacities, and have been appointed Retiarius for the
Lacus Magni provincia, and too have not been said to be unfufilling in my
position thereof. So should I be thrown out of my positions? I hope not. I
have worked hard to attain them, and will continue to work hard to fufill
the duties of those offices and any other which I may be elected or
appointed to. But still I haven't any rights.

It is bad enough that I may not sue for an office without a Senatus
consultum of 2/3 majority (which I doubt I'll get next year), but I cannot
even vote, because my age dictates my ability to make educated and deeply
thought out decisions? Come now! Would I really be here were I not able to
do this? Seriously folks! Would I?

Optime Valete,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus
Retiarius Lacuum Magnorum
Scriba Praetorium
Scriba Curatoris Araneae
Discipolus Anno Tertio Linguae Latinae
Civis Lacuum Magnorum Provinciae
Civis Patriae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima

"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" -- Q. Horati Flacci


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Pompeia's decision
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:41:08 -0500

> I do not think many were
> comfortable with a Consul who does not practise the religio, even a
> tolerant nonpractitioner.

I just want to reiterate, Pompeia, that I believe Nova Roma has a track
record of electing those who practice religions other than the Religio
Romana. Off the top of my head I can cite Marcus Minucius Audens and
your own paterfamilias as examples, and I expect there are more. I do
not know the religion of the man for whom I just voted; I made my
choice based on evidence of service, intelligence, dedication and
ability.

I do not question your right to make the decision you made. Anyone
might easily choose to withdraw from NR politics, and many have done so
after their involvement became too draining. The list moderator's job
is a particularly difficult one and I think your experience makes clear
that we need a better system to prevent moderator burnout.

I do believe, however, that Nova Roma needs the help and support of
citizens of all faiths, and that religious tolerance is not only the
only practical attitude but also the most Roman one. I say this as a
priestess sworn to further the worship of Minerva.

I thank you for the service you have performed, and hope you will again
consider taking an active role in NR after an appropriate amount of
time off.

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: *LAW CASE CONTEST* FINAL RESULTS!!!
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:25:54 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "Gnaeus Equitius Marinus"
<equitius_marinus@y...> wrote:
>
> > Congratulations to Renata Corva!!!!!!!! :)
>
> Congratulations indeed! Wonderful analysis Renata Corva. It was
> a pleasure to read your judicial opinions.
>
> My thanks to all who participated. Quite an educational exercise.
> I wish that Marcus Marcius Rex had been able to participate more
> fully, as I imagine his legal reasoning would have been most
> instructive.
>
> -- Marinus

Let me also extend my congratulations (unlike myself, you will make
excellent Praetors one day, it seems ;-) ) ! Roman Law can be
fascinating and I find the whole idea of this contest fabulous.

I know the Digesta and where to find them so it would have been abit
unfair to just repeat the answers given there. On the other hand I
did not have time to work out more than one Exegesis (I think I
should have inserted a clause that my contribution was to run outside
the competition itself). It would be lovely, though, if we could one
day find together in the Academia and delve into Roman Civil Law in
more detail. I will try my best to see that a course can be put
together some time in the future!

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex
Caput Generis Doctrinae Legis
in Academia Thules ad Studia Romana et Antiqua

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: *LAW CASE CONTEST* FINAL RESULTS!!!
From:	"aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:21:51 -0000

Gn. Equitius Marinus--I was very honored to participate with such
fine fellow contestants! I never actually expected to win the Law
Case Contest; I figured my opinions ought to have sounded more like
orations than they did. Thank you both for an enjoyable read!

Marcus Marcius Rex--I was very interested in your opinion on the
first case. Are you a lawyer outside of Nova Roma?

I would be interested in seeing an Academia course on Roman Civil
Law. I attended the course that T. Labienus Fortunatus taught as an
introduction to Nova Roma, so I know the Academia courses are quite
good.

---
Renata Corva


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Another Question for the Candidates
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= <jamiekjohnston@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:05:30 +0000 (GMT)

Tubertus' question has reminded me of another
constitutional point I meant to ask about: is it
intentional (and am I correct in my interpretation of
the constitution here) that citizens under 18 are
guaranteed no rights whatever by the constitution?

Here is the relevant passage:

II. b: "The following rights of the Citizens who have
reached the age of 18 shall be guaranteed, but this
enumeration shall not be taken to exclude other rights
that citizens may possess..."

Any ideas?

Jamie

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nova Roma Philosophy List Compromise
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:09:50 EST

Salvete,

Caius Curius Saturninus and I have exchanged a couple of emails regarding the
'two' Philosophy lists, "romanphilosophy" and "NovaRomaPhilosophy."

A comparison showed that the second list, "NovaRomaPhilosophy" had been set
up with more features, files and links, had been listed at all the major
search engines, and even though only a few hours old, already had a
comparable number of members and a greater number of overall posts.

Caius Curius Saturninus has been gracious enough to accept the position of
co-owner of the new list, after declining to allow me to turn the ownership
of the list to him solely. He has transferred the archives from the
"romanphilosophy" list to the "NovaRomaPhilosophy" list. Anyone wishing to
learn or discuss Roman philosophy is welcome to join the Nova Roma Philosophy
list at:
<A HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaPhilosophy/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaPhilosophy/</A>

I would like to publicly thank Caius Curius Saturninus for his graciousness
and understanding in regard to my blunder in creating a duplicate list. His
actions are a credit to Nova Roma, and a proof that an interest in Philosophy
transcends many boundaries. Again, my apologies for the confusion, and I hope
you will join Caius Curius, myself and other Nova Romans in discussing this
valued part of Rome's legacy.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Submitting petition for prorogation - how?
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@yahoo.com.au>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:08:14 +1100 (EST)

Salve,

I was wondering if anyone can tell me how to submit my
petition for prorogation as governor to the Senate. I
tried to post it to the Senate address, and it
rebounded.

Can anyone help me with this?

Vale bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Governor Propraetore Australia Provincia

http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper
- Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper!

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Another Question for the Candidates
From:	"rexmarciusnr" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:50:04 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@y...> wrote:
> Tubertus' question has reminded me of another
> constitutional point I meant to ask about: is it
> intentional (and am I correct in my interpretation of
> the constitution here) that citizens under 18 are
> guaranteed no rights whatever by the constitution?
>
> Here is the relevant passage:
>
> II. b: "The following rights of the Citizens who have
> reached the age of 18 shall be guaranteed, but this
> enumeration shall not be taken to exclude other rights
> that citizens may possess..."
>
> Any ideas?

Salve Jamie!

Actually the answer is - I believe - quite simple, although a bit
hidden from public view.

The clause you cite introducing the age of 18 as a limit for
citizenship (the criterium used before was "sui iuris" according to
country of residence) was only incorporated into the Constitution
after long discussions (mainly in June 2754) by way of the Lex Vedia
de Liberis Civium (see http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-
12-18-ii.html).

With this law - the drafts for it were changed several times mainly I
believe for fear of possible lawsuits - children of NON-citizens were
from then on deliberately barred from applying for citizenship.

Citizen of course can apply for citizenship on behalf their own
children who would then become "impuberes". Those impuberes would
have rights in Nova Roma, but they could not exercise those rights:
The relevant clause of the Lex Vedia de Liberis Civium as displayed
in the Tabularium (i.e. II.D.3.a and b. of the Constituion) reads:

"a. The paterfamilias may, at his discretion, exercise the rights
ennumerated in paragraph II.B. of this Constitution on behalf of
impuberes in their gens, with the exception of the right to vote
(paragraph II.B.3.) and the right to join the Ordo Equester
(paragraph II.B.8.).

b. No impuberes may become paterfamilias of a gens."

However, although the Senate seems to have ratified the whole text
(published on 6 January), our Tabularium only reflects part of the
changes (it btw also still has us incorprorated in new Hampshire
although we are now according to a Constitutional Amendment
incorporated in Maine).

Unless I have missed something completely here my point therefore is,
that impuberes DO have rights under the Constitution, but they cannot
exercise them.

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex
Candidate for Tribune

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Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: voting question
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= <racheledugdale@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:54:19 +0000 (GMT)

Jamie Johnston wrote:

> Though my knowledge of such things is limited, it
> strikes me that it might not be too hard to process
> the votes cast in an election in two ways: first,
> according to the real voting-system, to determine
the
> actual outcome, and secondly according to a simple
> one-person-one-vote system. A comparison of the two
> sets of results would show how far our voting-system
> diverges from what the results we would expect to
see
> in a more straightforward ballot.
>
> I can think of two objections to this (other than
that
> it would be extra work for the rogators: I don't
know
> how much extra it would be): first, that it might
> cause confusion at the ballot-box and result in
voters
> making the wrong choices,

If you were proposing simply processing the results in
two different ways, I can't see any reason why the
voters would necessarily have to even be aware of it -
they certainly wouldn't need to vote in a different
way for each system, if they were only getting one
vote anyway!

> and second, that it would
> undermine a magistrate's authority if he or she were
> seen to have been supported by only a minority of
> voters.

This could be a fairly major problem. Plus, I think
that trying to see how closely the 'tribes &
centuries' method of voting mirrors the results which
would be obtained by a straightforward vote is a
slightly pointless exercise unless we want to run the
risk of undermining the voting system itself - if
there remains any interest in historical authenticity,
a change to a simpler voting system just won't happen,
so it seems to me slightly pointless to run the risk
of reducing people's confidence in the system, when
we're not going to change it anyway :)

Gaia Fabia Livia

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Salve
From:	"quicksilver101445" <ianelliott@attbi.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:00:31 -0000

Just arrived, and happy to be here!

Vale,
Q. Moravius Cunctator

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Pompeia's decision
From:	"pompeia_cornelia" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:54:35 -0000

---Salve Honoured Senatrix P. Cassia:

My comments below....

In Nova-Roma@y..., Patricia Cassia <pcassia@n...> wrote:
> > I do not think many were
> > comfortable with a Consul who does not practise the religio, even
a
> > tolerant nonpractitioner.
>
> I just want to reiterate, Pompeia, that I believe Nova Roma has a
track
> record of electing those who practice religions other than the
Religio
> Romana. Off the top of my head I can cite Marcus Minucius Audens
and
> your own paterfamilias as examples, and I expect there are more.

Pompeia: There is another. And you are quite correct about the past
consuls, and they have been fairly vocal about being
nonpractitioners, but this was never the main focus of their
administrations.

However, I made my decision on my perception of'prevailing'
consensus and not the past, which doesn't always influence the
present on certain matters. ..the signs of the times....

I do
> not know the religion of the man for whom I just voted; I made my
> choice based on evidence of service, intelligence, dedication and
> ability.

Pompeia: I hear you.
>
> I do not question your right to make the decision you made. Anyone
> might easily choose to withdraw from NR politics, and many have
done so
> after their involvement became too draining. The list moderator's
job
> is a particularly difficult one and I think your experience makes
clear
> that we need a better system to prevent moderator burnout.

Pompeia: Although I didn't cite burnout as being a reason for not
continuing in my duties, I believe your idea would be a good measure
for the future. The moderator is indeed 'on the front lines', and it
is a busy role.
>
> I do believe, however, that Nova Roma needs the help and support of
> citizens of all faiths, and that religious tolerance is not only
the
> only practical attitude but also the most Roman one. I say this as
a
> priestess sworn to further the worship of Minerva.

Pompeia: I am with you on this item, too, very 'very' much so. This,
to me, would seem the most virtuous path, the one we are endeavoring
to promote. As a nurse have looked after people who have born
emotional and physical scars which are the product of political and
religious hatred of x toward y.
When does it all stop? Why does such foolishness have to start?
>
> I thank you for the service you have performed, and hope you will
again
> consider taking an active role in NR after an appropriate amount of
> time off.
>

Pompeia: Thank you very much. I shall see. I wasn't going to render
any comments to the forum regarding this or the elections, but a
statement of misrepresentation of my position came to my attention,
and, after an expanse of thought,I decided I needed to set the
record straight.

And having done this much, I thought I would render my opinion on a
few of the candidates.

Your gentle presence in Nova Roma, coupled with the fact that you are
an obvious diamond in the rough have helped Nova Roma far more than
you realize, Patricia.

Be well,
Po
> -----
> Patricia Cassia
> Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
> Nova Roma . pcassia@n...

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Salve
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:31:15 -0000

Q. Moravius Cunctator writes:

> Just arrived, and happy to be here!

Welcome to the Forum! It's good to see another Moravius here.
Diana is a charming woman, and I feel sure she will be proud of
you in times to come.

If you need any help figuring things out, please feel at liberty
to call on me. Either here in the forum or by personal e-mail.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Submitting petition for prorogation - how?
From:	labienus@novaroma.org
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:56:42 US/Central

Salve Gai Senti

> I was wondering if anyone can tell me how to submit my
> petition for prorogation as governor to the Senate. I
> tried to post it to the Senate address, and it
> rebounded.

I received it from the Senate address. It's likely that only one or two of the
addresses that senate@novaroma.org reaches actually bounced. I'll forward your
request to the closed Senate list as soon as I've sent this message.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New Moravii !!
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@gensmoravia.org>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:48:52 +0100

Salvete!

An official welcome to two new citizens of Gens Moravia: Demetreus Moravius
Barbaricus, known to all who attended the NR Rally and to Quintus Moravius
Cunctator, a good friend of mine from my macronational duties as a Pagan
Federation officer.

Their citizenships are still "pending" but will no doubt be official after
the elections.

Quintus Moravius Cunctator has written many many articles for the PF's
International newsletter Pagan World and has been a HUGE help to me in that
organization. I plan (with his permission of course) to put a few on the
Gens Moravia website for all to enjoy! I can list his credentials, but
everyone will see his contributions so no sense in me spoiling his fun :-)

Demetreus Moravius had been lurking here for a few months before he decided
to become a citizen. Demetreus is very active in Belgian politics and as a
typical Fleming, he speaks/reads/writes basic Latin as well as 4 other
languages fluently. He is also my significant other and is the driving force
behind our macronational family, being much more 'domestic' than I am....
Since he is a webdesigner, this week he'll be 'put to work' giving me some
ideas for the gensmoravia.org website :-))

Marinus said: "It's good to see another Moravius here. Diana is a charming
woman,"

Only after 10 hours sleep and 3 mugs of strong coffee!

>"and I feel sure she will be proud of you in times to come."
Ahh, but I am already proud of all of them. Even if we are not all related
by blood, we all certainly feel a 'warmth' for eachother. And as the
(default!) Materfamilias, it is great to have such nice people as
Arnamentia, Demetreus and Quintus in the Gens, who can teach their
Materfamilias (or big sister as I prefer) a thing or two :-)

Valete!
Diana Moravia Aventina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New Moravii
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:23:55 -0000

Salvete omnes!

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Quintus Moravius
Cuncator and Demetreus Moravius to the main list and Nova Roma. I
know you both will have a great and interesting time here and I can
assure you that you'll never be bored - especially with your very
active and great gens mum, Diana! If you need help or futher
orientation, please do not hesitate to ask me or any Nova Roman on
the list. You will find that answers are quick in coming!

Vale bene, enjoy!

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Salve
From:	"Ian Elliott" <ianelliott@attbi.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:41:44 -0800

Salve Marinus, and thanks for the welcome! The first hand given a stranger is always the warmest.
I will make a folder for you straightaway and you may expect to hear from me soon.

Cunctator

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 5:31 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Salve

Q. Moravius Cunctator writes:

> Just arrived, and happy to be here!

Welcome to the Forum! It's good to see another Moravius here.
Diana is a charming woman, and I feel sure she will be proud of
you in times to come.

If you need any help figuring things out, please feel at liberty
to call on me. Either here in the forum or by personal e-mail.

-- Marinus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Temple to Gay Love
From:	"Javier Mardones" <ariesorbiter@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:55:45 -0000

Salve Quirites,

Very agree about that point. The cult of Antinoo was
focused in himself as the tragic hero died young. The cult was spread
around the roman world (and the Hadrian's help) syncretazing with
other cults, for example, the young Dyonisios and Osiris...

In other hand, Catholic christianity still worship the
figure of Saint sebastian (the young martir murdered in Diocletian's
times) In Some part of latin america this saint is portraited like
young boy (instead like an adult in Europe) an his cult is very
alive...

Marcus Cornelius Chilensis

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> A Very misleading headline.
>
> The short lived cult of Antonius was directed at the
> Emperor's favorite, the person, and not at the bond
> between them.
>
> --- Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@k...>
> wrote:
> > http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_710095.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
> > 417 East 13th Street
> > Kansas City, Missouri 64106
> > (816).471.2111
> > (816).510.0072(cell)
> > (816).471.8412(Fax)
> > The information contained in this e-mail message is
> > attorney privileged and confidential information
> > intended only for the use of the individual or
> > entity named. If the reader of this message is not
> > the intended recipient, or the employee or agent
> > responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient,
> > you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> > distribution or copying of this communication is
> > strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> > communication in error, please immediately notify
> > the sender by using the contact information in the
> > "reply to" field above and return the original
> > message to the sender. Thank you.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
> (A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
> Seneca, Letters to Lucilius
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] New Moravii
From:	"Ian Elliott" <ianelliott@attbi.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:02:11 -0800

Thanks very much, Paulinus! I can see that this is a world of a group, and I look forward to exploring its every nook and cranny.
I accept your help in advance with gratitude and will call on you in the near future.

Vale te bene,
Cunctator

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:23 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] New Moravii

Salvete omnes!

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Quintus Moravius
Cuncator and Demetreus Moravius to the main list and Nova Roma. I
know you both will have a great and interesting time here and I can
assure you that you'll never be bored - especially with your very
active and great gens mum, Diana! If you need help or futher
orientation, please do not hesitate to ask me or any Nova Roman on
the list. You will find that answers are quick in coming!

Vale bene, enjoy!

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] (unknown)
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <curatrix@villaivlilla.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:26:08 -0000

The civis with the following voter tracking codes has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#21150, #21153, #21164, #24147 #24156

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow my instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors.

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| Rogatrix, MMDCCLV
Scriba, Nova Roma Curator Araneae
Curatrix Araneae,
America Boreoccidentalis

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Historical Time
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:32:46 -0500

Simple. Since Latin has ceased to be used very much as the universal language of law, medicine, and the learned class; the academic powers that be decided it would be easier to go with the new universal language-English. BCE=before [the] current era and CE=[the]current era. However, it still pretty much mean BC and AD.

Vale.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Concluding the Ludi Plebeii!
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:14:57 -0000

Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus and Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
write:

> Here end the Ludi Plebeii!

I thank my Plebeian colleagues in the Aedileship for these
wonderful, delightful games. Well done gentlemen! You and
your many able assistants have done yourselves proud.

It is an honor and a pleasure to serve with you in the
Temple of Ceres.

-- Marinus
(Curule Aedile suffectus)


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Historical Time
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:40:31 -0000

Salvete omnes,

A question for anyone!
When and why did historians and archeaologists change BC and AD to
BCE OR CE? I noticed most of my history books until the mid 70's used
BC and AD. Now the newer ones use either/or. Was this done for
political correctness or to adjust any cofusion with the Jewish or
Islamic calenders since much ancient work is done in that part of the
world?

Thanks

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Historical Time
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:36:00 -0000

Quintus Lanius Paulinus asks:

> When and why did historians and archeaologists change BC and AD to
> BCE OR CE?

The practice goes back at least as far as 1950, when Daniel Elizar
began to use it in his library classification system in the United
Hebrew Schools of Detroit Michigan. I don't know whether he coined
the terms BC and BCE, or got them from somebody else.

The Elizar system is a variant of the Dewey Decimal system, and
in the US both have been largely replaced by the Library of
Congress system. Elizar's BC/BCE notation has become ubiquitous
among scholars, and is now the standard for most peer-reviewed
journals.

-- Marinus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] HISPANIA - EDICTVM XII - DE EXTRAORDINARIO SYMPOSSIO PROVINCIALE
From:	"Lucius Minicius Laietanus" <laietanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:49:31 -0000

====================================================================
EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM XII - DE EXTRAODINARIO SYMPOSSIO PROVINCIALE
Relativo a la convocatoria a la próxima reunión provincial
extraordinaria en Mantua Carpetanorum (Madrid)

Ex Oficio Propraetoris Hispaniae

Todos los ciudadanos de Hispania son convocados mediante este edicto a
la próxima reunión provincial que tendrá lugar en la ciudad de Mantua
Carpetanorum (Madrid) durante los días 6, 7 y 8 de Diciembre, de
acuerdo con lo dispuesto por la Curia Hispanica y recogido en la
AUCTORITAS DE EXTRAORDINARIO SYMPOSSIO PROVINCIALE PRO MANTUA
CARPETANORUM

Encontrareis más información sobre el encuentro provincial en:
http://es.geocities.com/sceptia

Este edicto es promulgado con el soporte previo de la Curia Hispánica,
hoy a.d.XIII kal Mai. MMDCCLV auc, año del consulado de Marcus
Octavius
Germanicus y Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.

Lucius Minicius Laietanus
Propraetor Hispaniae

====================================================================
EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM XII - DE EXTRAODINARIO SYMPOSSIO PROVINCIALE
Calling all citizens of Provincia Hispania to join the next
extraordinary provincial meeting in Mantua Carpetanorum (Madrid)

Ex Oficio Propraetoris Hispaniae

All the citizens of Hispania are hereby called to join our next
extraordinary provincial meeting, which will take place in the city of
Mantua Carpetanorum (Madrid) during the 6th, 7th and the 8th of
December according to the decision passed in the Curia Hispanica and
as detailed in the AUCTORITAS DE EXTRAORDINARIO SYMPOSSIO PROVINCIALE
PRO MANTUA CARPETANORUM

You'll find more information (only in Spanish, I'm afraid) at
the following site: http://es.geocities.com/sceptia

This edict is issued with the previous support of the Curia
Hispanica, today , ad. XIII kal. Mai, MMDCCLV auc, in the year of
Marcus Octavius Germanicus and Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
consulship.

Lucius Minicius Laietanus
Propraetor Hispaniae

====================================================================


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Concluding the Ludi Plebeii!
From:	"curiobritannicus" <Marcusaemiliusscaurus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:45:46 -0000

Salvete omnes,

Here end the Ludi Plebeii!

We would like to thank the people who have made these Ludi possible:

Manius Constantinus Serapio
Ianus Minucius Sparsus
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo

In addition, we have been assisted by various Magistrates, and
others, who have helped judge some of the contests. Our grateful
thanks to all of them!

We would also like to thank the Venatores, who fought so bravely, and
provided their employers with so much well-earned cash. ;-)

We declare the Ludi Plebeii ended, but that does not mean that the
people must go unentertained! After all, it's now election time! :-D

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus,
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix,
Plebeian Aediles.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Historical Time
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:58:37 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com

Simple. Since Latin has ceased to be used very much as the universal language of law, medicine, and the learned class; the academic powers that be decided it would be easier to go with the new universal language-English. BCE=before [the] current era and CE=[the]current era. However, it still pretty much mean BC and AD.
>
It is really intended to 'dechristianise' whether it's read as Current or Christian Era. There was a time but I am not sure when, that AD was not the same as EV, Era Vulgaris, because the church and civil years started on different dates. In fact, round about 1690 you could have left England using the Julian calendar 11 days slow, travelled through Catholic Europe on the modern Gregorian and arrived in Russia (possibly taking in the Muslim calendar) on the Orthodox calendar starting with Creation in 5509 BCE (14th October when the year started - so much for Archbishop Ussher), taking in three Christmasses en route I suppose. Peter the Great changed the year with 14 months up to 1700 but even he only dared to use the obsolete Julian calendar because Protestant was not as bad as that Anti-Christ incarnate in Rome. For which Peter was designated Anti-Christ, for does Scripture not say "He shall turn from the years of God to those of Man" (I dunnno does it?)
Vibius.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

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