| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Quick question |
| From: |
"Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:11:33 -0500 |
|
Salve Quinte Cassi,
To handle this, send it to either the Curator, M. Octavius (until the end of
this year), or one of his scribes (such as T. Octavius Pius, Julilla
Sempronia Magna, myself, (I think there are others, but I can't think of
them all)). We'll handle it from there.
Vale,
Sp. Postumius Tubertus,
Retiarius Lacuum Magnorum
Scriba Praetorium
Scriba Curatoris Araneae
Discipolus Anno Tertio Linguae Latinae
Civis Lacuum Magnorum Provinciae
Civis Patriae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima
"There is but one evil: Ignorance" -- Socrates
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] =?iso-8859-1?Q?oath_of_seat_of_Senator_=28English/Spanish_-_Ingles/Es?= |
| From: |
"Daniel Villanueva" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:56:54 -0300 |
|
Oath of seat of Senator
I, Lucius Pompeius Octavianus (born as Daniel Oscar Villanueva) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Lucius Pompeius Octavianus swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
I, Lucius Pompeius Octavianus swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
I, Lucius Pompeius Octavianus swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.
I, Lucius Pompeius Octavianus further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the seat of Senator to the best of my abilities.
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the seat of Senator and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
Scribebam Bonariæ (Buenos Aires) a.d. VIII Id. Dec. MMDCCLV A.V.C (Dec. 6th, 2002) in the year of the consulship of M. Octavius Germanicus and L. Cornelius Sulla Felix.
Juramento de escaño de Senador(Español)
Yo, Lucius Pompeius Octavianus (nacido como Daniel Oscar Villanueva) por la presente juro solemnemente defender el honor de Nova Roma, y siempre actuar en los mejores intereses del pueblo y el Senado de Nova Roma.
Como magistrado de Nova Roma, Yo Lucius Pompeius Octavianus juro honrar los dioses y diosas de Roma en mis tratos públicos, y practicar las virtudes Romanas en mi vida pública y privada.
Yo, Lucius Pompeius Octavianus juro sostener y defender la Religio Romana como la religión de estado de Nova Roma y juro nunca actuar en una forma que amenaze su status como religión de estado.
Yo, Lucius Pompeius Octavianus juro proteger y defender la constitución de Nova Roma.
Yo, Lucius Pompeius Octavianus además juro cumplir con las obligaciones y responsabilidades del escaño de Senador hasta lo mejor de mis habilidades.
Sobre mi honor como ciudadano de Nova Roma, y en la presencia de los dioses y diosas del pueblo Romano y por sus voluntades y favor, acepto el escaño de Senador y todos los derechos , privilegios, obligaciones y responsabilidades concurrentes a ello.
Escrito en Bonaria (Buenos Aires) a.d. VIII Id.. Dec. MMDCCLV A.V.C (Diciembre 6, 2002) en el año del consulado de M. Octavius Germanicus y L. Cornelius Sulla Felix.
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Quick question |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 02:08:07 -0000 |
|
Salve,
To whom do I send a digital picture to be added to my Nova Roma
profile?
Vale,
Q. Cassius CAlvus
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Reminder: Market Day Chat |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 03:02:44 -0000 |
|
Next Sunday, 8 December, is our next market day. All are invited
to meet for realtime chat in the official chat room at
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/chat/chat
--
ex officio
Gn. Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA is convened |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:18:46 -0300 (ART) |
|
Salvete Quirites !
As Tribunus Plebis, I Convene the Comitia Plebis
Tributa to elect remaining next year's magistrates.
The Contio begins at 18:00 Roman Time, Wednesday 04
December.
Voting shall begin at 09 December (ante diem V Id.
Decembras), Monday, 18:01 Roman Time (17:01 GMT; 11:01
US/Central).
Voting shall end at 17 December (ante diem XVI Kal.
Ianuarias), Tuesday, 18:01 Roman Time (17:01 GMT;
11:01 US/Central).
An election guide, containing statements from every
candidate, is available at:
http://www.novaroma.org/election/2755
The following positions will be filled by vote of the
Comitia Plebis Tributa:
AEDILIS PLEBEIUS - 1 seat available, 1 candidate so
far (still accepting candidates!):
Publius Tarquitius Rufus
TRIBUNUS PLEBIS - 4 seats available, 6 candidates:
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius
Marcus Marcius Rex
Gaius Modius Athanasius
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Gaius Geminius Germanus
I remind our brave Rogatores and Curator Araneum that
the Lex Salicia De Suffragiis, in Comitia Plebis
Tributa, allows our cives to vote twice for Tribunus
Plebis.
Valete Omnes
Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis
_______________________________________________________________________
Busca Yahoo!
O melhor lugar para encontrar tudo o que você procura na Internet
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Congratulations to Nova Roma's Newest Senators |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 01:14:58 -0000 |
|
Salve,
My congratulations to both Lucius Pompeius Octavianus and Lucius
Sicinius Drusus on their appointment to the Senate.
Vale,
Q. Cassius Calvus
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Announcement of Candidacy: Curio for Aedilis Plebis |
| From: |
"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:57:05 -0500 |
|
Salve Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
Good luck in the election. I think next year the Eagle will sell advertising space to candidates and maybe even arrange a debate or two on KSPQR the Radio station the Eagle staff is buying (GRIN)
I think they just passed the lex that you can't run for more than one at a time or the same one. Mostly likely does not apply to this election.
Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differium-Elect
----- Original Message -----
From: curiobritannicus
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 2:47 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Announcement of Candidacy: Curio for Aedilis Plebis
Salvete omnes,
I, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, hereby announce my candidacy
for the position of Aedilis Plebis.
I have searched the Tabularium for the lex concerning repeat
magistracies, and have been unable to find anything against it. If
any of our law experts know otherwise, please say so!
Seeing that candidates are still being accepted, and that we have yet
to find a legal candidate - though all honour to Tarquitius for
applying - I have decided to step forward to serve Nova Roma again.
I have experience with this magistracy, having been Aedilis Plebis
this year. I have organised Ludi already, both alone and in
conjuction with my colleague, Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix. I have
also served as Rogator and Scriba Propraetoris.
Among my intentions, if elected, are to continue building up the
(Currently somewhat small) biographical encyclopaedia, and also to
revive the Social War game that was played some years ago, as well as
working with my colleagues to keep the Ludi going.
Good luck to Tarquitius in the elections!
Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus,
Candidate for Aedilis Plebis.
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Announcement of Candidacy: Curio for Aedilis Plebis |
| From: |
"curiobritannicus <Marcusaemiliusscaurus@hotmail.com>" <Marcusaemiliusscaurus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 07:43:04 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes,
I, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, hereby announce my candidacy
for the position of Aedilis Plebis.
I have searched the Tabularium for the lex concerning repeat
magistracies, and have been unable to find anything against it. If
any of our law experts know otherwise, please say so!
Seeing that candidates are still being accepted, and that we have yet
to find a legal candidate - though all honour to Tarquitius for
applying - I have decided to step forward to serve Nova Roma again.
I have experience with this magistracy, having been Aedilis Plebis
this year. I have organised Ludi already, both alone and in
conjuction with my colleague, Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix. I have
also served as Rogator and Scriba Propraetoris.
Among my intentions, if elected, are to continue building up the
(Currently somewhat small) biographical encyclopaedia, and also to
revive the Social War game that was played some years ago, as well as
working with my colleagues to keep the Ludi going.
Good luck to Tarquitius in the elections!
Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus,
Candidate for Aedilis Plebis.
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Thank You! |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:10:27 -0800 (PST) |
|
I Offer a warm thankyou to the citizens who have
congratulated me for my recent apointment as Senator.
I Shall do my best to live up to the trust that has
been shown to me.
=====
L. Sicinius Drusus
Roman Citizen
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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| Subject: |
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[Nova-Roma]=20oath=20of=20seat=20of=20Senat?= |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:38:24 EST |
|
> Salvete Luci Pompei Octavi et al,
I publicly welcome both Roman citizens to the Senate of Nova Roma.
However it is not necessary to swear an oath to the Gods and People of Rome.
Senators are citizens not magistrates. We hold ourselves up to a higher
standard than the average citizen, yet we remain citizens all the same.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Nationality and Nova Roma (Was: Re: Withdrawl) |
| From: |
"sceptia <sceptia@yahoo.es>" <sceptia@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:32:01 -0000 |
|
Salve Caesariensis
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, me-in-@d... wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> >
> >My good friend L. Didius Geminus Sceptius is *not* an American. He
is a
> >Spaniard (you know, Ibiza, sangria and all that) ;-). So I guess
that
> >he can be excused for not having a proper "federalist" mindset :-).
> >
> Spain is a federal country (whatever a few Basques might think!)
within a greater coming Federation so he can't be excused on that
ground :)
SCE: Should look first to our Constitution... Our country is actually
and Constitutionally talked (Art 1.3) a Parlamentary Monarchy. So, I
do not see the Federalism you said. Furthermore, if we suffered a
civil war between 1936 and 1939 (And so many before, about 4, in the
Nineteen Century) was in a good part because of that. Federalism was
an idea of the First and Second Republic. Both were beated by
military forces and set a "Democracy" and a Dictatorial system
respectively.
But I should hear to you who live here and work in an everyday-based
job dealing with our administation... So yes, Spain is a Federal
country (Maybe in your mind) and we belong to a not so definite Union
that I don't really know we can name it Federal one.
But I can't be excused on that ground for living in my own country
and knowing it. :-)
If anyone wish to say something about something, whatever it could
be, first is very useful to ask or check in the books. So I strongly
suggest Caesariensis to do so. A friend advice. :-)
Vale bene,
L. Didius Geminus Sceptius
- Candidate to Tribunus Plebis -
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Macronational Political Views |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:01:10 -0500 (EST) |
|
Citizens of Nova Roma;
I come before you to echo the wise words of Senator Drusus, in his
cautions regarding the criticism of another's country or political
views. Such lashing out does little good and much harm.
--You will never convince another of the overall wickedness or goodness
of any particular macronation on this net;
--Criticism of another's political views pertaining to the modern day is
not what this Main List is all about. This is a Roman List, and the
political figures of the modern period really have no place here unless
they are somehow related to Rome;
--Generally speaking criticism of another's country, values, and
political views are fueled by an incomplete understanding of the history
and considerations of the period being discussed, and the needs /
policies of any given political state / political view;
--The use of a number of buzz words are calculated to belittle and
insult, and those wordss everyone recognizes and really again have no
place on this list;
--Lastly those who engage in such political / macronational insult or
criticism of modern day considerations and or policies, chip away at
what those in Nova Roma have built over the last five years.
I ask that you consider your words on this list in light of the above
considerations, and keep the comments here relating to the Roman World.
It is for this purpose that we all gather here, and it is to this
purpose that I ask you to devote your attention.
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Average Citizens |
| From: |
AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:06:46 EST |
|
In a message dated 12/7/2002 6:38:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com writes:
> We hold ourselves up to a higher
> standard than the average citizen, yet we remain citizens all the same.
>
Q. Fabius Maximus:
I am curious as to which higher standards senators hold themselves. Are
there a hidden set of virtues that only senators are aware of, and that only
apply to senators? I have heard rumor that there are senators who are
virtually inactive, what about them? Have they relegated themselves to
"average citizen" with a title, or are they still of a higher standard?
To comment, I feel that senators, magistrates, and priests within Nova Roma
have varied responsibilities, duties, obligations, and privileges that set
them apart to a degree and that while they are in possession of these
obligations and duties they should be very mindful of their role within our
Republic. However, I believe it to be VERY possible that there are citizens
out there who are extremely virtuous who posses no title and honors within
Nova Roma...but have the blessings of the Gods (or God whichever the case may
be). Just because a person doesn't posses a title doesn't meant they cannot
be extraordinary (or more than just an average citizen), and just because a
person has a whole resume of titles doesn't mean they cannot be "average."
Vale,
G. Modius Athanasius
Flamen Pomonalis
Candidate for Tribune
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Inspirational Quote |
| From: |
AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:16:23 EST |
|
In a message dated 12/6/2002 4:35:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
equitius_marinus@yahoo.com writes:
> "The empire cannot become a child again. Nobody can. It cannot simply
> give away its cannons, machines, and money and once again write poems
> in small peaceful cities and play sonatas. But it can take the path
> that the individual must also take when his life has led him to make
> mistakes and suffer profound torment. It can recall its precious past,
> its heritage and childhood, its maturation, its rise and fall, and it
> can find the power while recalling everything that essentially and
> immortally belongs to it. It must "go into itself", as devout people
> say. And in itself, it will find its essence undestroyed, and this
> essence will not want to avoid its destiny but affirm it and begin anew
> out of its best and most profound qualities that have been
> rediscovered." -- Hermann Hesse, "The Empire"
I have always been a big fan of Hermann Hesse. A discussion of this
paragraph would be very interesting on the Philosophy list.
G. Modius Athanasius
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Average Citizens |
| From: |
"sceptia <sceptia@yahoo.es>" <sceptia@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 14:29:58 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/7/2002 6:38:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> qfabiusmaxmi@a... writes:
>
> > We hold ourselves up to a higher
> > standard than the average citizen, yet we remain citizens all the
same.
> >
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus:
>
> I am curious as to which higher standards senators hold
themselves. Are > there a hidden set of virtues that only senators
are aware of, and that only > apply to senators? I have heard rumor
that there are senators who are > virtually inactive, what about
them? Have they relegated themselves to > "average citizen" with a
title, or are they still of a higher standard?
>
Well Athanasie, not only you are curious about this "higher
standards". As far as Honorable Fabius Maximus enjoys asking and
never answering questions to the candidates, I'd like to know what he
thinks about clientelar system, so "High" for the rest of the
quirites, or what kind of virtues he has over the rest of the
citizenship. Becouse even though he remains a citizen "all the same"
his words reveal a strong selfconscious range that any other citizens
ain't get. You know, he taps on the shoulder of his "equals" while a
grin over his chin shows that you are less than him... Curious
virtue, I guess. But I wait for his honorable answers, surely as
virtuous as himself. :-)
Vale bene,
L. Didius Geminus Sceptius
****************************************
- Candidate to Tribunus Plebis -
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Higher set of standards??? |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:44:37 -0500 (EST) |
|
Citizens of Nova Roma;
Let me say that my standards of today, are no different than my
standards on the day that I first heard about Nova Roma. My "standards"
were determined long ago, and my efforts in Nova Roma have brought me
many honors as bestowed by the Citizens of Nova Roma, but my standards
have not changed because of position or rank..
I have over the last five years, been given a wider range of
responsibilities, and the privaledge to undertake them by the vote of
the Citizens of Nova Roma. For that I am most grateful, however my
standards remain the same, essentialy, as the day I first entered here.
I have and do pledge my alleagiance to the Citizens of Nova Roma, and
not they to me, and I serve the highest of the offices, the Citizen of
Nova Roma, for it is the Citizens who have a vote, and the vote is the
source and instrument of selection for those who serve.
For my part, I strive to maintain my standards as they were when I
became a Citizen here, and I hope that my standards live up to the
standards of those Citizens whom I am sworn to serve, as a Magistrate,
ProConsul, and as a Senator.
I am a Citizen of Nova Roma, and while I am privaledged to serve, I do
not in any way believe that my standards are superior to any Citizen
here, nor do I believe that my political standing is anything but a way
to serve those same Citizens who have so honored me with their
confidence.
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate Appointments |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:04:21 +0100 |
|
Salvete Illustri Senatores!
I would like to Congratulate Illustrus Lucius Pompeius Octavianus and
Illustrus Lucius Sicinius Drusus to their appointments as Senators of
Nova Roma. I am sure that the Senate will be strengthened by your
knowledge and experience!
--
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Thules
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
"Fautor Societatis Iuventutis Romanae"
************************************************
Senior Consul Designatus MMDCCLVI A.U.C.
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Integrity, Accountability, Reform"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Average Citizens |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:23:56 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salve,
There are no hidden virtues, or secrect agendas in
Quntis Fabius' remarks. Senators have a duty to
maintain the dignitas of Nova Roma and the Senate.
A Citizen who is neither a Senator or a Magistrate is
free to offer private comments on any subject he
wishes. Comments by a Senator or a Magistrate can be
wrongfully interpated as being some kind of offical
statement on behalf of Nova Roma or the Senate, so
more care has to be taken in selecting our words.
We have many private citizens who value thier dignitas
as much as any Senator or Magistrate, but thier
conduct mainly affects thier personal dignitas, not
that of The Senate or that of Nova Roma.
The higher standard is no more than having to consider
that our conduct and our words can affect the dignitas
of Nova Roma and the Senate, rather than just our
personal dignitas.
--- AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 12/7/2002 6:38:46 AM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com writes:
>
> > We hold ourselves up to a higher
> > standard than the average citizen, yet we remain
> citizens all the same.
> >
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus:
>
> I am curious as to which higher standards senators
> hold themselves. Are
> there a hidden set of virtues that only senators are
> aware of, and that only
> apply to senators? I have heard rumor that there
> are senators who are
> virtually inactive, what about them? Have they
> relegated themselves to
> "average citizen" with a title, or are they still of
> a higher standard?
>
> To comment, I feel that senators, magistrates, and
> priests within Nova Roma
> have varied responsibilities, duties, obligations,
> and privileges that set
> them apart to a degree and that while they are in
> possession of these
> obligations and duties they should be very mindful
> of their role within our
> Republic. However, I believe it to be VERY possible
> that there are citizens
> out there who are extremely virtuous who posses no
> title and honors within
> Nova Roma...but have the blessings of the Gods (or
> God whichever the case may
> be). Just because a person doesn't posses a title
> doesn't meant they cannot
> be extraordinary (or more than just an average
> citizen), and just because a
> person has a whole resume of titles doesn't mean
> they cannot be "average."
>
> Vale,
>
> G. Modius Athanasius
> Flamen Pomonalis
> Candidate for Tribune
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
=====
L. Sicinius Drusus
Roman Citizen
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] CALLING FOR PLEBEIAN AEDILES!!! |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:32:42 -0300 (ART) |
|
Salvete quirites,
I hereby make a call for candidates for the still opening positions of Plebeian Aedile. Any opening position is a shame for our Res Publica.
I adress to all plebeians that DO consider deeply the possibility. Let´s work! There is a great oportunity for new citizens start the curso honorum so gloriously. Naturally, as the aedil elected, I will not show any support for any candidate, but I hope in the name of the almight Gods that there will be many... or not? I have pretty confidence on the public conscience and the civitas´ duty of the good plebeian citizens to run for it.
And mother Ceres, in which Temple the Aediles started their magistracy, bless and inspire us all.
Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile elected
---------------------------------
Busca Yahoo!
O melhor lugar para encontrar tudo o que você procura na Internet
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Average Citizens |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:33:24 -0000 |
|
Earlier, Quintus Fabius Maximus wrote, concerning members of the
Senate:
> > We hold ourselves up to a higher
> > standard than the average citizen, yet we remain citizens all
> > the same.
This inspired G. Modius Athanasius to comment:
> I am curious as to which higher standards senators hold themselves.
> Are there a hidden set of virtues that only senators are aware of,
[...]
I think perhaps Senator Fabius Maximus phrased his statement poorly.
My guess is that his intent was to say that it is customary for
members of the Senate to hold their Senatorial colleagues to higher
standards of conduct than they would hold citizens in general.
Of course, I haven't the gift of telepathy, and would not presume to
read the Senator's mind. But that seems a reasonable inference.
-- Marinus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Withdrawl |
| From: |
"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:27:36 -0600 |
|
"There is a tendency for Americans to believe they have God's own perfect country, and of course some extremists who believe that quite literally."
It always warms my heart to see you descend into name calling and stereotyping
G.B. Agricola
The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Withdrawl
-----Original Message-----
From : "Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@usa.net>
I believe you misunderstood me, perhaps because I dashed off my letter too
>quickly. I am not ignorant of other nations, nor do I think that my nation
>is "the best" in every respect above other nations. There are certain
>
I rather dashed mine off in a rush too. There is a tendency for Americans to believe they have God's own perfect country, and of course some extremists who believe that quite literally. It is always dangerous to believe oneself at the height since the only way from there is down or else one stagnates but more than that, it allows for abuses to be overlooked and excused until suddenly there is all abuse and nobody knows how it crept up on them. This is of course what happened under Fascism and Communism and began to happen with MacCarthy.
The issue is not so much anti-Americanism as recognising that it has its bad points as much as anywhere else. I would consider that the cult of extreme individualism actually masks a very conformist society but allows for much freedom to be curtailed by a 'divide & rule' policy by those able to unite to be powerful against those whose isolation renders them powerless.
Interesting that three men have gone down in history as preaching permanent revolution: Franklin, Trotsky and Mao. I wonder what they would make of each other and their concepts of what 'the revolution' entailed?
V. Ambrosius Caesariensis.
--
Personalised email by http://another.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Withdrawl |
| From: |
"Lucius Arminius Faustus <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:49:06 -0000 |
|
Salve,
That off-topic email crises are cyclic, aren´t they? Now is the
´american imperialism question´ - AGAIN for the 3-4th time - next
time will be the ´european couple d´etat in NR´ - next will be the
´renouncing of someone - chapter Fiver´ - next ´the site owner
polemic´ - next ´libelous statement of anyone against someone´ - next
´offended religious beliefs - chapter eight´
And when we go on all cycle shooting and beeing shooted, maybe the
´american imperialism question´ part V would grown again... to argue
all the same thing again and again and again... AD NAUSEAM!
Gods, I´m really tired of this nhenhenhem...
L. Arminius Faustus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola"
<jlasalle@k...> wrote:
> "There is a tendency for Americans to believe they have God's own
perfect country, and of course some extremists who believe that quite
literally."
>
> It always warms my heart to see you descend into name calling and
stereotyping
>
> G.B. Agricola
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
> 417 East 13th Street
> Kansas City, Missouri 64106
> (816).471.2111
> (816).510.0072(cell)
> (816).471.8412(Fax)
> The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney
privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of
the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to
deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact
information in the "reply to" field above and return the original
message to the sender. Thank you.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 3:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Withdrawl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From : "Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@u...>
> I believe you misunderstood me, perhaps because I dashed off my
letter too
> >quickly. I am not ignorant of other nations, nor do I think that
my nation
> >is "the best" in every respect above other nations. There are
certain
> >
> I rather dashed mine off in a rush too. There is a tendency for
Americans to believe they have God's own perfect country, and of
course some extremists who believe that quite literally. It is always
dangerous to believe oneself at the height since the only way from
there is down or else one stagnates but more than that, it allows for
abuses to be overlooked and excused until suddenly there is all abuse
and nobody knows how it crept up on them. This is of course what
happened under Fascism and Communism and began to happen with
MacCarthy.
> The issue is not so much anti-Americanism as recognising that
it has its bad points as much as anywhere else. I would consider that
the cult of extreme individualism actually masks a very conformist
society but allows for much freedom to be curtailed by a 'divide &
rule' policy by those able to unite to be powerful against those
whose isolation renders them powerless.
> Interesting that three men have gone down in history as
preaching permanent revolution: Franklin, Trotsky and Mao. I wonder
what they would make of each other and their concepts of what 'the
revolution' entailed?
> V. Ambrosius Caesariensis.
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Withdrawl |
| From: |
"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:45:46 -0600 |
|
"The US arms industry has always been largely a way for the State to fund research and maintain employment producing things intended either for destruction or obsolescence and therefore in permanent demand without appearing to violate the dogma of no State interference in industry."
Thats one way of looking at at, I guess. I've read that statement a number of times, and I can't quite make any sense of it. Could you clarify it?
"Left to itself the 'free' market would not waste the money involved on research and development most likely to be superseded by a competitor. Who, thirty years ago, would have set up a space programme for satellite communications? Where did the Internet originate? These things cannot be done by market-aware businesses and must be directed either by a Ministry like MITI or through the military back door; the 'free market' is as much a sham as any 'people's democracy'."
Hunh? Where do you get this stuff? Despite our two party system, Americans do have sort of a unified purpose when it comes to our manifest destiny. The greatest gift we gave ourselves after WWII was the establishment of Democracy in conquered countries, in order that they would be forever internally squabbling, instead of scheming to invade their neighbors.
"Independence flips over to mutual suspicion, belief in doing unto others before they get the chance to do it to you and a people who treat life itself more as a war than as co-operation and are too ready to erupt into mad violence when it all gets too much for them. Such a people is self-destructive and ready for take-over by some fanatic with simplistic answers amounting to more of the same but worse."
Good God! I guess you must describing Europe only a scant 50 years ago.
The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Withdrawl
-----Original Message-----
From : Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
>
>Americans are not ignorant of other places. We have no illusions concerning Japan, Scandanavia, or France for that matter. Your rank and file American would consider them Utopian dictatorships where its citizens have given up basic rights to feel safer and have their government take care of them.
That is what a government is *for*: to do for individuals what they cannot do individually. It doesn't matter whether it is elected as a unitary system or, as I would prefer, separate administrations for separate concerns.
As I've posted before, one doesn't have to go back far in history to observe those very same countries as superpowers who literally ran amok around the globe "colonizing" and exploiting third world nations.
One must go a thousand years back to find the Scandinavian colonies! The USA is a colonial power internally, one which has effectively colonised itself from East to West, not that the Sioux and others were not well on the way to establishing their own hegemony long before Europeans arrived.
As for laying down arms, the question is rather where's the war? The US arms industry has always been largely a way for the State to fund research and maintain employment producing things intended either for destruction or obsolescence and therefore in permanent demand without appearing to violate the dogma of no State interference in industry. Left to itself the 'free' market would not waste the money involved on research and development most likely to be superseded by a competitor. Who, thirty years ago, would have set up a space programme for satellite communications? Where did the Internet originate? These things cannot be done by market-aware businesses and must be directed either by a Ministry like MITI or through the military back door; the 'free market' is as much a sham as any 'people's democracy'. Unfortunately, a nation which encourages militarism becomes a militarised, insecure nation and that is a very dangerous combination. Independence flips over to mutual suspicion, belief in doing unto others before they get the chance to do it to you and a people who treat life itself more as a war than as co-operation and are too ready to erupt into mad violence when it all gets too much for them. Such a people is self-destructive and ready for take-over by some fanatic with simplistic answers amounting to more of the same but worse.
V. Ambrosius Caesariensis.
--
Personalised email by http://another.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Average Citizens |
| From: |
AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:08:17 EST |
|
In a message dated 12/7/2002 10:34:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
equitius_marinus@yahoo.com writes:
> I think perhaps Senator Fabius Maximus phrased his statement poorly.
> My guess is that his intent was to say that it is customary for
> members of the Senate to hold their Senatorial colleagues to higher
> standards of conduct than they would hold citizens in general.
>
> Of course, I haven't the gift of telepathy, and would not presume to
> read the Senator's mind. But that seems a reasonable inference.
>
> -- Marinus
Said this way, Marinus, it seems more appropriate and reasonable. The same
would hold true for Provincial Magistrates, and members of the Priesthood, in
my opinion.
We should all strive to be men and woman of virtue, but those in positions of
leadership and/or authority need to be ever mindful of their
responsibilities, duties, and the posts they occupy -- so dignity can be
maintained and scandal averted...and the mission/work achieved.
Modius Athanasius
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Average Citizens |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:55:11 -0000 |
|
Salve,
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/7/2002 6:38:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> qfabiusmaxmi@a... writes:
>
> > We hold ourselves up to a higher
> > standard than the average citizen, yet we remain citizens all the
same.
> >
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus:
>
> I am curious as to which higher standards senators hold
themselves.
A Senator and any official of nova Roma elected or appointed is held
to a higher standard of conduct and has far less "wiggle room" than a
private citizen. Something I would hope that a candidate for Tribune
and a Flamen would understand, but from reading your post, I don't
see much in the way of evidence that you have that understanding.
Vale,
Q. Cassius Calvus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] CALLING FOR PLEBEIAN AEDILES!!! |
| From: |
"Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:44:14 -0500 |
|
Sp. Postumius Lucio Arminio Fausto Quiritibusque S.P.D.
Salvete,
I have already talked to two magistrates about this, and have gotten well-educated and wise answers from both of them. I would be happy to serve the People as a Plebeian Aedile. However, due to both the fact that it would be greatly improbable that I could obtain the needed Senatus consultum for my age requirement, and the fact that I have not been a citizen for six months yet, I cannot run. So there stands my inhibitions at present.
That's not to say, though, that if the People want me, I won't do what I can to legally obtain the position.
Optime Valete,
Sp. Postumius Tubertus,
Retiarius Lacuum Magnorum
Scriba Praetorium
Scriba Curatoris Araneae
Discipolus Anno Tertio Linguae Latinae
Civis Lacuum Magnorum Provinciae
Civis Patriae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima
"There is but one evil: Ignorance" -- Socrates
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 336 |
| From: |
"Daniel Villanueva" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:48:14 -0300 |
|
Slave Quinte Fabi Maxime
Thank you very much for the welcoming. As I wrote to Decius Iunius Palladius
I was very doubtful whether to state the oath or not, but then I felt that
without the oath my elevation to the Senate would be incomplete, like
"something was lacking". So I
decided to state it anyway.
Thank you for the information.
Bene vale
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
----- Original Message -----
From: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 11:15 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 336
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:38:24 EST
From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Subject: Re: oath of seat of Senator (English/Spanish - Ingles/Es pañol)
> Salvete Luci Pompei Octavi et al,
I publicly welcome both Roman citizens to the Senate of Nova Roma.
However it is not necessary to swear an oath to the Gods and People of Rome.
Senators are citizens not magistrates. We hold ourselves up to a higher
standard than the average citizen, yet we remain citizens all the same.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Average Citizens |
| From: |
"Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:13:01 -0500 |
|
Sp. Postumius Q. Cassio Calvo S.P.D.
Salve,
> A Senator and any official of nova Roma elected or appointed is held
> to a higher standard of conduct and has far less "wiggle room" than a
> private citizen. Something I would hope that a candidate for Tribune
> and a Flamen would understand, but from reading your post, I don't
> see much in the way of evidence that you have that understanding.
I, on the other hand, see much evidence that he understood that. But from my
understanding of Athanasius's words, he was commenting that Fabius's words
implied that Senators hold themselves to a standard that is supposed to be
not so much the expectation, but rather the demand. From what I understood
of Fabius's words, he was saying that Senators must be of the highest
virtue. Too, from what I understood of his words, from the common citizen no
level of virtue nor high standard is expected. And so, Athanasius commented
as he did from his understanding of Fabius's words, and not, perhaps, what
was meant, nor the understanding of what you comment upon. Athanasius has
indeed indicated that he has this understanding, if you read his first post
on the subject.
Now, as far as I'm concerned, everyone here, all the way up to the Praetors,
Consuls, and Censors, are just "average citizens." We are all average
citizens. However, we average citizens have put others like ourselves in
positions where their excellence may be best used (this gets to a
philosophical point on my classifications of intelligence, so I'll cut that
one off there). Similarly with Senators, we have had them placed where they
may use their excellence to the best good of the Republic. Such is my
comprehension.
Optime Vale,
Postumius
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Average Citizens |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:35:15 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sp. Postumius Tubertus"
<postumius@g...> wrote:
> Sp. Postumius Q. Cassio Calvo S.P.D.
>> Something I would hope that a candidate for Tribune
> > and a Flamen would understand, but from reading your post, I don't
> > see much in the way of evidence that you have that understanding.
>
> I, on the other hand, see much evidence that he understood that.
But from my
> understanding of Athanasius's words, he was commenting that
Fabius's words
> implied that Senators hold themselves to a standard that is
supposed to be
> not so much the expectation, but rather the demand.
Salve,
Perhaps that is what you saw. I saw a demagogic speech to make his
Tribunus campaign into a referendum on Sulla's veto of gens reform.
It didn't take much reading between the lines to figure out the
general gist was "A vote for Athanasius is a vote against the Sullan
oligarchies." That gist was readily apparent to L. Didius Geminus
Sceptius who subsequently wrote a message to hitch his wagon up to
the same horse using the "clientelar system" strawman as his footman.
Vale,
Q. Cassius Calvus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Average Citizens |
| From: |
AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:55:41 EST |
|
In a message dated 12/7/2002 11:55:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
richmal@attbi.com writes:
> A Senator and any official of nova Roma elected or appointed is held
> to a higher standard of conduct and has far less "wiggle room" than a
> private citizen. Something I would hope that a candidate for Tribune
> and a Flamen would understand, but from reading your post, I don't
> see much in the way of evidence that you have that understanding.
Q. Cassius Calvus:
As an individual I strive to be a man of virtue, in my day to day life.
However, as a provincial level magistrate and a member of the priesthood I
feel a responsibility to be mindful of my actions and hold myself responsible
for my actions. This, however, doesn't mean I am MORE virtuous because I am
a priest or a magistrate -- but that I need to be aware of my actions so I
can fulfill my duties and obligations honorably and respectfully. It is my
opinion that people who become senators, magistrates, and priests should be
those individuals who are virtuous people, and these people should constantly
strive to be virtuous people -- as the struggle for virtue and excellence is
an ongoing one. Each person within Nova Roma started out with a "clean
slate." It is that slate that we build our reputation. Each person has the
same opportunity (save for those under age) to serve the republic.
It would be my assumption that people are selected to be senators because
they have served the Republic, and because they are know to be virtuous
people. In order for them to keep the respect of the people, they should
have to maintain their virtuous living. They are not, necessarily, held to a
higher standard -- they have simply lived the standard successfully and have
shown a remarkable (and commendable) level of serve and dedication.
Myself, for example...I am a virtuous citizen. I serve the Republic to the
best of my abilities, but in the grand scheme of things I am but a neophyte
compared to some. I do NOT deserve a seat in the senate because, while I am
dedicated to Nova Roma and serve the Republic, I have not fulfilled sustained
service over a long period of time. The two recent appointees to the senate
have devoted countless hours to the Republic, and have shown exceptional
character. I would not expect them to "change" their behavior (to some
higher standard) but to maintain that standard of excellence they already
possess.
Furthermore, your reference to "wiggle room" would, in my opinion, be an
example of discretion. Knowing when to say something, to whom, and how you
say it. Some issues will require private discussion, while others can be
discussed on an open forum -- discretion serves as the guide to help you in
your means of executing your actions. Senators are required to possess the
discretion necessary for the fulfillment of their duties as a senator, just
as a magistrate and priest needs discretion in the role they serve.
Every citizen, however, has to exercise some form of discretion. A teacher
in a classroom will use different actions than he or she would in the company
of close friends, or colleagues. An employee should act professionally at
work, but can "let their hair down" with friends and family. Likewise,
discretion needs to be used in keeping with list rules when posting e-mails
to this list. These are all forms of discretion, and different roles within
ADF require different levels of discretion. Censors will need to posses a
different form of discretion than would a Provincial Legate, or a Pontiff or
Flamen. But discretion is still needed to fulfill their duties.
In closing, Cassius Calvus, if you have further reservations as to the
integrity of my understanding of things please ask for clarification (verses
assuming I am ignorant of said understanding).
In Fellowship:
G. Modius Athanasius
Flamen Pomonalis
Candidate for Tribune
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Nationality and Nova Roma (Was: Re: Withdrawl) |
| From: |
me-in-@disguise.co.uk |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:10:39 +0000 (GMT) |
|
-----Original Message-----
>From : “sceptia <sceptia@yahoo.es>“ <sceptia@yahoo.es>
>But I can't be excused on that ground for living in my own country
>and knowing it. :-)
>If anyone wish to say something about something, whatever it could
>be, first is very useful to ask or check in the books. So I strongly
>suggest Caesariensis to do so. A friend advice. :-)
>
I have to admit to not knowing much about Iberia in general. I assumed that the present government had devolved substantial autonomy to Barcelona and Bilbao as regional capitals, thereby making it no longer a truly centralised nation.
Caesariensis.
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Average Citizens |
| From: |
AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:17:26 EST |
|
In a message dated 12/7/2002 4:37:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
richmal@attbi.com writes:
> Perhaps that is what you saw. I saw a demagogic speech to make his
> Tribunus campaign into a referendum on Sulla's veto of gens reform.
> It didn't take much reading between the lines to figure out the
> general gist was "A vote for Athanasius is a vote against the Sullan
> oligarchies." That gist was readily apparent to L. Didius Geminus
> Sceptius who subsequently wrote a message to hitch his wagon up to
> the same horse using the "clientelar system" strawman as his footman.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear, Cassius Calvus, that I find your
statement completely accusatory. Let me further clarify...
1. I never participated in the gens reform debate.
2. I do not present myself to be against ANYONE, let alone this "Sullan
oligarchies" you mention -- which I would very much like for you to clarify
this statement (who are the members of this oligarchy?).
3. The actions of L. Didius Geminus Sceptius are his own. If they were
motivated by my post then so be it, but I have never engaged in a dialogue
with the man before - nor am I aware of his character.
To be perfectly honest with you, my post was primarily motivated because a
similar discussion on virtue took place on the NRPriesthood list (a list
reserved for Priests of Nova Roma). I had posted that priests within Nova
Roma should be mindful of their actions, and should live virtuous lives.
Another priest on the list said that citizens should live virtuous lives in
spite of their being a priest, and that being a priest had nothing to do with
being virtuous. It was a long drawn out debate. I have come to the
conclusion that all citizens should strive to be virtuous, but priests (and
senators and magistrates) should be virtuous if anything to bring honor and
dignity to their priesthood and not reflect a poor image upon Nova Roma.
Furthermore, I would be very disappointed if someone voted for me as Tribune
because they thought I was "against" someone else. Part of my platform in
the election was, "To cooperate with other magistrates to promote the best
interests of Nova Roma." This promise could not be fulfilled if I was
against anyone. If elected, my role would be to stand for justice and the
people. If I stood for my own self interests (as you claim) then I would be
a liar and fake. I know I am no liar, and I know I am no fake.
G. Modius Athanasius
Flamen Pomonalis
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Withdrawl |
| From: |
me-in-@disguise.co.uk |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:45:50 +0000 (GMT) |
|
-----Original Message-----
>From : Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
>
>Thats one way of looking at at, I guess. I've read that statement a number of times, and I can't quite make any sense of it. Could you clarify it?
>I don't want to go into great detail but no system has all the answers and market economy needs a kick from outside to keep it going. In some places that kick is provided by government setting a target, in others through the military. Because the USA has a dogmatic attitude to State expenditure, it works through classing a whole range of research under Department of Defense - for instance, COBOL originated there and so did ADA as a standard, neither strictly related to matters military. NASA started with military overtones and so did the Inet. Left to itself, business is not going to tell the shareholders "Well we thought developing rockets to put satellites in orbit so we can broadcast 100 TV channels world-wide looks like a good idea". At best they'd wait for somebody else to do it and then improve on the prototype, saving themselves research costs - the early Japanese approach. A good example where the world led the USA for a change is mobile phones. Probably, given cheap land lines and the difficulties of huge areas to cover, mobiles were more obvious in densely populated European countries.
>Hunh? Where do you get this stuff? Despite our two party system,
(Gore Vidal describes it as 'Left or Right wing of the Business Party')
Americans do have sort of a unified purpose when it comes to our manifest destiny. The greatest gift we gave ourselves after WWII was the establishment of Democracy in conquered countries, in order that they would be forever internally squabbling, instead of scheming to invade their neighbors.
>
I think you have had a country of expanding frontiers up to maybe the 1960s. Thereafter, the US has become more like other countries and part of that is a concentration of corporate power in fewer larger firms competing for 'market share' where before there were always new markets. You only have to think of the preponderance of IBM and Microsoft to see how little competition there is in the more modern areas. It looks as if that is changeing thanks to Linux and in fact it is only about 5 years since Windows did sweep previous preferences away.
And nobody has a 'manifest destiny'! That went the way of 'historical necessity' and 'the inevitable dialectic' (and means as much)!
people is self-destructive and ready for take-over by some fanatic with simplistic answers amounting to more of the same but worse.“
>
>Good God! I guess you must describing Europe only a scant 50 years ago.
>
That is what happened in Europe, more 80 than 50 years ago though. There is a difference between real independence and the false independence of all in the same race regardless of ability. Someone pointed out that Americans bristle at 'special cases' taking from 'the people', like non-whites, women, workers, poor, sick, (but not aged since all will be that). If you remove those special cases, you are left that 'the people' consist only of white male rich healthy employers, who I suggest are something of a minority special case in themselves! 'Divide and rule' is the oldest trick in the book and it is easy to push independence to go one's own way quietly into a kind of aggressive individualism that sets each against each and makes everyone insecure while somebody else picks up the benefit of their insecurity. 'Freedom' doesn't mean anything if it becomes the able-bodied telling the crippled they are of course equally free to run the same race but don't expect any help like a wheelchair. That kind of 'freedom' implodes because the sense of insecurity and poverty rises until even the richest find themselves spending most of their time and money on bodyguards they cannot trust. That is the situation in some almost collapsed South American countries like Colombia.
I think the USA is also facing what hit Constantinople in 1204, England in the Falklands war: it is much the same as anywhere else and no longer above it all. Constantinople had to accept the Barbarians had become powerful states behind its back. England had to accept a great imperial nation does not have difficulties making war against a tinpot South American dictator - in fact dictators don't dare to tweak its tail. Imagine Castro taking Puerto Rico over - nonstarter. America is facing commercial competition on an equal basis and, as of last year, has been thrown into the same world as everyone else. Previously, Americans went to war. This time, war came to the USA: suddenly the world can reach it too. There would probably have been a new Cold War anyway since the effects of demilitarisation would wreck the economy. As is, military expenditure is ideal since what it manufactures always has to be replaced and few people question it. As for actual war, that is a matter of this particular president getting one up oon his dad, a cleverer man would avoid the reality but keep the potential and all the research and industry that goes with it.
Caesariensis.
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] ROMAN TIMES - Standpoints of Caeso and his friends |
| From: |
Emilia Curia Finnica <e.curia@welho.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 8 Dec 2002 00:54:54 +0200 |
|
Salvete omnes,
Our next year's Senior Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus salutes all NovaRomans!
Roman Times is a mixture of politics and humor. Some issues with a
lighter mix and others with just one ingredient. Read the latest
issue at: http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/
***
In This Issue:
1. Salvete Quirites, co-competitors, Magistrati and Senatus!
by Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
2. Agenda Praetoria
by Gnaeus Salix Astur
3. Petra -a City Forgotten and Rediscovered
by Caius Curius Saturninus
***
Valete,
--
Emilia Curia Finnica
Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Scriba Aedilis (Caeso Fabius Q.) Aranei
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