Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Importance of Saturn
From:	"elinla02 <gmarilde@hotmail.com>" <gmarilde@hotmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 01:11:10 -0000

Avete Romani amati!

Could anybody please tell me why, in the English language, among the
days of the week, almost all dedicated to germanic Gods, there's a
day for Saturn?
In my dear, and very Latin, Spanish (and, of course, in the other
Romanic languages except Portuguese), as you may have heard, Roman
and other ancient Indo-European Gods and Goddesses are still being
celebrated in the names of the days:

Domingo_ Well, a little bit of christianity. Dominicus,
Day of the Lord, but... it's the same Day of the Sun.
Lunes_ The same Day of the Moon.
Martes_ Day of Mars, and, something curious, looking at ethymology,
you can find that Tuesday is also referred to a
God of war: Tiu, whose name has the root for the
word Deus. (Are we all children of war? This is
a little sad).
Miércoles_ Mercury
Jueves_ Father Iuppiter
Viernes_ Venus
Sábado_ Homage for the Shabbat

So, what have those Romans done in Britain? And why Saturn only?

Thank you very much!
Valeria Constantina Iuliana.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Importance of Saturn
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 01:30:42 -0000

Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "elinla02 <gmarilde@h...>"
<gmarilde@h...> wrote:
> Avete Romani amati!
>
> Could anybody please tell me why, in the English language, among
the
> days of the week, almost all dedicated to germanic Gods, there's a
> day for Saturn?
> In my dear, and very Latin, Spanish (and, of course, in the other
> Romanic languages except Portuguese), as you may have heard, Roman
> and other ancient Indo-European Gods and Goddesses are still being
> celebrated in the names of the days:

After the Romans left England in the 5th century the Romanized lands
were invaded by the Picts and Celts from Sctoland and Ireland. The


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Importance of Saturn (The rest of it )
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 01:55:07 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus
<richmal@a...>" <richmal@a...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "elinla02 <gmarilde@h...>"
> <gmarilde@h...> wrote:
> > Avete Romani amati!
> >
> > Could anybody please tell me why, in the English language, among
> the
> > days of the week, almost all dedicated to germanic Gods, there's
a
> > day for Saturn?
> > In my dear, and very Latin, Spanish (and, of course, in the other
> > Romanic languages except Portuguese), as you may have heard,
Roman
> > and other ancient Indo-European Gods and Goddesses are still
being
> > celebrated in the names of the days:
>
> After the Romans left England in the 5th century the Romanized
lands
> were invaded by the Picts and Celts from Scotland and Ireland. The
Romanized Britons turned to the Angles, Jutes, and Saxons from what
is now northern Germany and Denmark for help. This was a big mistake
as the Angles, Jutes, and Saxons decided they liked the place and
decided to kick the Romanized Briton's out with the Germanic culture
surplanting the Roman and in the process germanized the days of the
week using the names of the germanic dieties that corresponded best
with the Roman dieties, i.e. Tyr and Mars both being Gods of War.
I'm looking at a couple of lists major germanic dieties and none
really corresponds to the attributes of Saturn as the germans and the
later Vikings were not pastorial peoples.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Importance of Saturn
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:05:46 +0100

Salvete Romani,
Could anybody please tell me why, in the English language, among the
days of the week, almost all dedicated to germanic Gods, there's a
day for Saturn?
In my dear, and very Latin, Spanish (and, of course, in the other
Romanic languages except Portuguese), as you may have heard, Roman
and other ancient Indo-European Gods and Goddesses are still being
celebrated in the names of the days:

So, what have those Romans done in Britain? And why Saturn only?

MOS: Most days in Germanic languages are "transliterations" or adaptive translations of days. Not only in English but also in Dutch names still refer to Germanic versions of the Roman gods (except for Saturday - Zaterdag - indeed which still solely refers to the Roman god; why beats me). I guess over here it has to do with the fac that the Franconians looked up to Roman culture and adapted as much as possible. That may also help to explain why after a few generations, the Franconians in Gallia (France) began to speak a type of Latin which evolved into early French. Where I live (above the Latin-German language border which splits Belgium) the Roman presence was not as strong and as such the Germanic languages survived but the admiration for Latin culture was no less. As such, things like calendars, some proverbs and names of days were adapted.

Valete bene,
M. Octavius Solaris

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Importance of Saturn
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 08:37:13 -0500

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus. Salve.

The assumption that the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes are solely responsible for the names of the days of the week is a common fallacy. It is important to remember that the Late Roman Empire was invaded by a huge number of Germanic peoples (Goths, Suebi, Marcomanni, Burgundians, Franks, Vandals) who shared a common heritage. Tacitus's GERMANIA specifically mentions that Tiw was the chief god of the Germans and he equated Tiw with Mars. However, the original Indo-European sky-father was Tyr or Tiw or Tir, a diety that contained the attributes of the later Woden, Odin, Tyr, and Thor. Also, it is important to remember that Mars (like the majority of the Graeco-Roman dieties) had a number of names (Ulthor, Victor) and spheres of influence (war, dance, agriculture). The later Hellenistic historians wrote that the Scythians worshipped Tyr as their chief diety and they equated him with Zeus-Pater.
The other gods of the Germans included Frigg-Frigga-Freya, a mother goddess/god and Nerthus the Earth Goddess (eorthan moder). These gods were usually equated by the Romans with Minerva and the Magna Mater but it is only an equation.
Calendars are a very difficult thing to follow as most cultures in the ancient world had both a solar and lunar calendar. In the early Middle Ages, England was using both the Irish-based and Roman-based Christian calendars that led to a 4 year variation on the birth of Christ as well as not including the Year 0 Anno Domini because the Latins never developed the arithmetic concept of zero.
In parts of the old Empire, the Roman calendar stayed in use side-by-side with the Christian based calendar for over 400 years after the fall of the Western Empire; expecially in the areas of Hispania, southern Gaul, southern Noricum, Pannonia.
I was recently reading the book 1000; there were some very relevant portions about days of the week and calendars in this work. Vale.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Importance of Saturn
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 08:37:15 -0500


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] EXTRA , EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT!!!!!!
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:15:12 -0500

Salve, I do not mean to kill dead horse but just a reminder during this busy time of year.

THE DEADLINE FOR THE EAGLE IS THIS FRIDAY THE 27TH OF DECEMBER!!!!!!!

YES THATS RIGHT THIS FRIDAY THE 27TH OF DECEMBER!!!!!!!!!

IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING FOR THE EAGLE PLEASE SEND IT IN SOON!!!!!!

ALSO COULD THE PROPRATERS AND PROCONSULS SEND ME DIRECTLY THEIR

POSTAL MAILING ADDRESS PLEASE SEND TO spqr753@msn.com

THANKS, THANKS ,THANKS , THANKS

VALE

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differium-Elect

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] We Wish You a Happy Saturnalia
From:	"ebastopol <ebastopol@yahoo.es>" <ebastopol@yahoo.es>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:17:36 -0000

The Province of Hispania wish You a Happy Saturnalia...

Please see this file:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-
Roma/files/Hispaniae_Province/Happy_Saturnalia.htm

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Eagle Advertising ?
From:	Legion XXIV <legionxxiv@comcast.net>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:23:30 -0500

Legion XXIV would take an ad to support the publishing costs
of the "Eagle".

The cost should be whatever it costs to print the advertising space,
(full-page, half-page or quarter-page), for the entire press-run and
some extra for profit to support the cost of the editorial pages.

Assuming, a full-page ad (5 x 7-1/2) on a folded 8-1/2 x 11 inch page,
at 5 cents per 8-1/2 x 11 inch xerox side, times 200 copies;
the raw cost of the ad would be $5.00 (2.5 cents x 200 5 x 7-1/2);
for which the advertiser would pay $15.00.
Thus he would be paying the cost to produce his ad ($5.00) plus the
cost of producing 2 additional 5 x 7-1/2 inch editorial pages
($10.00) per 200 copies produced.

Half-page ads (4 x 3-1/2) would be $7.50 and quarter-page ads,
(2 x 4) $4.00. With the equivalent of just 2 or 3 full pages of ads, the
Eagle could be self-supporting, including postage, and may even
provide some profit for NR's coffers!

Multiple insertions (3 consecutive issues or more), paid in advance,
could receive a volume discount.

While these ad costs may seem high, profit-raising "ad books" typically
charge $100, $50 and $25 for the same size ads. Advertising is for
making a profit, not just covering your costs, otherwise why bother
taking ads.

Anyone else have any further ideas on this.

Yours in service to Rome and NovaRoma

Gallio Velius Marsallas aka George Metz
Praefectus Legion XXIV MA
www.legionxxiv.org legionxxiv@comcast.net

three

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Eagle Advertising ?
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:44:57 -0500

Salve and thanks for the input. The profit idea had us thinking in these term.
For ads in THREE issues What do you think? ONLY for discussion NOTHING is set in stone.
--Business Card-----$10.00;

--1/4 page (81/2 x 11")-------$25.00;

--1/2 page------$50.00;

--Full page-------$100.00
Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Legion XXIV
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:27 AM
To: NovaRoma List Yahoo Groups
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Eagle Advertising ?

Legion XXIV would take an ad to support the publishing costs
of the "Eagle".

The cost should be whatever it costs to print the advertising space,
(full-page, half-page or quarter-page), for the entire press-run and
some extra for profit to support the cost of the editorial pages.

Assuming, a full-page ad (5 x 7-1/2) on a folded 8-1/2 x 11 inch page,
at 5 cents per 8-1/2 x 11 inch xerox side, times 200 copies;
the raw cost of the ad would be $5.00 (2.5 cents x 200 5 x 7-1/2);
for which the advertiser would pay $15.00.
Thus he would be paying the cost to produce his ad ($5.00) plus the
cost of producing 2 additional 5 x 7-1/2 inch editorial pages
($10.00) per 200 copies produced.

Half-page ads (4 x 3-1/2) would be $7.50 and quarter-page ads,
(2 x 4) $4.00. With the equivalent of just 2 or 3 full pages of ads, the
Eagle could be self-supporting, including postage, and may even
provide some profit for NR's coffers!

Multiple insertions (3 consecutive issues or more), paid in advance,
could receive a volume discount.

While these ad costs may seem high, profit-raising "ad books" typically
charge $100, $50 and $25 for the same size ads. Advertising is for
making a profit, not just covering your costs, otherwise why bother
taking ads.

Anyone else have any further ideas on this.

Yours in service to Rome and NovaRoma

Gallio Velius Marsallas aka George Metz
Praefectus Legion XXIV MA
www.legionxxiv.org legionxxiv@comcast.net

three

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Absence
From:	"rexmarciusnr <RexMarcius@aol.com>" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:47:45 -0000

Salvete omnes!

I will be on travel until 13th January and quite unsure whether I
will have access to Internet where I am staying (remote place in the
Alps of Noricum).

Avete And Happy Saturnalia

Marcus Marcius Rex

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Calendar
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:44:49 -0500

Salve and thanks

If Lucius Equitius and Antonius Gryllus would like to help the staff of the Eagle and submit a Calendar for each month that would be most appreciated.

Vale
Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Haase
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:33 AM
To: Stephen Gallagher
Subject: Re: Calendar

Salve Tiberi Galleri,

Lucius Equitius and Antonius Gryllus would be best qualified to put
this together.

Vale, Octavius.

> Salve Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
>
> Would you have the time and interest to send the Eagle a January Calendar with the appropriate festivals etc so that it can be included in the newsletter? If you are willing to do this it might help to know we are using Microsoft's Works to make the newsletter ( at least for now). Thanks for considering our request.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius
>

--
Matt Haase (haase@konoko.net) http://www.konoko.net/~haase/
"AIX looks like one space alien discovered Unix, and described it
to another different space alien who then implemented AIX. But
their universal translators were broken and they'd had to
gesture a lot. " -- Mike Andrews of a.s.r.

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Calendar
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:51:00 +0100

Salve Tiberius,
If the 2 gentlemen below don't have time to submit a monthly calendar, you
could always find a lot of information on our religious festivals by looking
ons the calendar of the NR website http://www.novaroma.org/calendar/

Vale!
Diana

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunis Plebis-elect 2756
Sacerdos Venus
http://www.gensmoravia.org
*******************************

Diana Aventina
Pagan Federation International
diana@be.paganfederation.org
http://www.be.paganfederation.org
Infolijn 0498 758352

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@msn.com]
Verzonden: maandag 23 december 2002 18:45
Aan: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [Nova-Roma] Re: Calendar

Salve and thanks

If Lucius Equitius and Antonius Gryllus would like to help the staff of the
Eagle and submit a Calendar for each month that would be most appreciated.

Vale
Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Haase
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:33 AM
To: Stephen Gallagher
Subject: Re: Calendar

Salve Tiberi Galleri,

Lucius Equitius and Antonius Gryllus would be best qualified to put
this together.

Vale, Octavius.

> Salve Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
>
> Would you have the time and interest to send the Eagle a January Calendar
with the appropriate festivals etc so that it can be included in the
newsletter? If you are willing to do this it might help to know we are
using Microsoft's Works to make the newsletter ( at least for now). Thanks
for considering our request.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius
>

--
Matt Haase (haase@konoko.net) http://www.konoko.net/~haase/
"AIX looks like one space alien discovered Unix, and described it
to another different space alien who then implemented AIX. But
their universal translators were broken and they'd had to
gesture a lot. " -- Mike Andrews of a.s.r.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] ABSENCE FROM THE MAIN LIST
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:00:44 -0500

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus SFD. Salve.

Beginning the evening of 12/24/02 and lasting until 12/29/02, I will be off visiting my relatives and taking the thermae at Hot Springs, Arkansas. I wish all of my fellow citizens a joyous holiday and may the gods keep you all safe and happy until we meet again on the mainlist. Vale.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Importance of Saturn
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:26:39 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
>
>The assumption that the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes are solely responsible for the names of the days of the week is a common fallacy.

Until Christian times they probably were not used as 'the week' as much as in divination. Saturn doesn't really have a Teutonic equivalent either as ancient agricultural deity or as Father Time - who is really a very hazy identification with Chronos anyway - who's the Roman Ouranos for instance? (The Hindu by name is Varuna but by remit he is equivalent to Poseidon [Potedan] who started life as Lord of Horses, Earthquakes and probably 'things that rush, especially rivers called Don/Dniepr/Donau...' and Neptune who didn't) Could it be that in typical Northern weather which was even wetter then, Saturn just wasn't a planet they'd noticed? Teutons were not astrologers but it's hard to miss Jupiter on a good night. Saturn's a different matter.
And as said, it wasn't necessarily all Anglo-Saxons. Thorr is Scandinavian, the AS is (rather obviously) Thunor, later Thunder. Yet the weekday takes the shorter form, not something like Thundresday. I understand that when Iceland went Christian they fixed it by renaming the days First-day, Two-day, Midweek....

Caesariensis

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New Seven Wonders
From:	"deciusiunius <bcatfd@together.net>" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:58:34 -0000

Salvete,

I'm wondering what everyone else thought of this list of Wonder
candidates. Where is the Hoover Dam, the Suez Canal, Mt. Rushmore or
the Panama Canal? These are engineering marvels that far surpass most
of what is on their list. And even if the Pyramids were on the old
list, why not include them on the new as well since they are still
standing? I wrote in my suggestions since they say they are still
adding to their list. I'm going to hold off voting until they declare
the list closed for new candidates.

Anyone else take a look at the site and its list yet?

Valete,

Decius Iunius Palladius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola"
<jlasalle@k...> wrote:
> Citizens of Roma, make yourselves heard!
>
> http://www.new7wonders.com/voting.php
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
> 417 East 13th Street
> Kansas City, Missouri 64106
> (816).471.2111
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> (816).471.8412(Fax)
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Excellent article to start learning latin
From:	Gaius Noviodunus <Gaius.Noviodunus@iseli.org>
Date:	Tue, 24 Dec 2002 00:38:27 +0100

Salvete omnes,

I've just come across an excellent article for those of you wishing to
learn latin.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/12/20/143632/84

Merry Christmas and/or Saturnales to everybody!

Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus

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