| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] America Medioccidentalis Superior Province Announcements |
| From: |
Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:22:23 -0600 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
I am seeking citizens who are interested in serving the
Province. There are two Legate Major position's open. They
are for Regio Campus(KS,MO,and NE) and Regio Montanus(MT
and WY). Please contact me privately if you are interested.
The Provincial Mail List(AMS_NR@yahoogroups.com) is being
closed due to lack of use and interest.
Sextus Cornelius Cotta
--
Propraetor--America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Factio Praesina
iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
YahooMsgr: iguard2
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] America Medioccidentalis Superior Province Announcements |
| From: |
todd smith <boudachaea@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:49:08 -0800 (PST) |
|
--- Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
> I am seeking citizens who are interested in
> serving the
> Province. There are two Legate Major position's
> open. They
> are for Regio Campus(KS,MO,and NE) and Regio
> Montanus(MT
> and WY). Please contact me privately if you are
> interested.
>
> The Provincial Mail List(AMS_NR@yahoogroups.com) is
> being
> closed due to lack of use and interest.
>
>
> Sextus Cornelius Cotta
>
> --
> Propraetor--America Medioccidentalis Superior
> Province
> Factio Praesina
>
> iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
> YahooMsgr: iguard2
>
> I Am interested...Live in madison wisconsin though.
boudachaea@yahoo.com
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] C. Minius Messala Bellator for the assistance |
| From: |
gens.minius@club-internet.fr |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:17:11 CET |
|
Salve Propraetor,
I am Caļus Minius Messala Bellator. I realize that you need assistance, and I would wish to help you and my of the same family. Would you accept of the assistance of families of other provinces or have needs only for the citizens of America Medioccidentalis Superior? If the assistance of other provinces interests you, we are of Gallia and very happy to be with your service for the work of your choice.
That the gods bless you, dear friend.
Caļus Minius Messala Bellator (Paterfamilias)
Civis Gallia Provinciae
Civis Plebiae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Digest No 388 |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@starpower.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:37:35 -0500 |
|
Salvete omnibus et Ave Amice Diocletianus
It is I who has had the honor and pleasure to serve with such fine men as
Censor Diocletianus.
I must now acknowledge that without the cooperation and assistance of my
colleague Censor Diocletianus and the help of Marcus Ocatvius as 'scriba
censoribus' I don't think it would have been possible to complete a term as
Censor. Certainly the term would not have been as enjoyable and it would
have been infinitely more difficult, gratias vobis ago.
I'm very pleased to be able to leave office knowing that we are in his very
capable hands. As I said earlier, I look forward to the day when I can shake
hands with you, Dio, in person. The work was worth the opportunity to
associate with such fine men as you.
I et vale in pace deorum
Lucius Equitius
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 24
Date: (unknown)
From: <3s@hsk-net.de>
Subject: AW: Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.
I just want to give my public thanks to my former collega and friend Lucius
Equitius Cincinnatus Augur. I had the honor and pleasure to serve with him
one year as Censor. A year in which he showed much dignity and industria to
the tasks given to the office of Censor. He gave me all assistance I needed
at the begin of my term.
Luci Equiti, thank you very much for all that. Thank you for the help, the
discussions and debates. Thank you also for your kind and hard work. This
year with you was a pleasure.
As a sign of honor, the Censors added the agnomen of distinction "Augur" to
your name, a honor you deserve.
I wish you health, luck and success for the future tasks in your offices of
Augur and Pontifex, and I“m looking for your advice in the Senate. We will
stay in contact.
Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Censor
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] The Appointment of Scriba Curatoris Differum |
| From: |
"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:55:54 -0500 |
|
EDICTVM CVRATORIS DIFFERUM
The Appointment of Scriba Curatoris Differum
E Domo Curatoris Differum
CAIUS MINIUS BELLATOR AND MINIUS AQUILA PLLADIUS
are hereby appointed Scriba Curatoris Differum effective today the
7th of Ianuarius MMDCCLVI auc 7 January 2003.
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, Curator
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Truth, Lies, Consular Authority and Ethics |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:29:36 -0800 |
|
Avete Omnes,
Once again the animosity between my former colleague and myself has been brought into the ML, oh to have the type of relationship that my first colleague and I enjoy, but such is life and I will just have to live with the burden.
Since this conversation began, I have not responded to Censor M. Octavius's baiting and accusations because most of his arguments are specious, inflammatory, and designed slander to my dignitas. However, as he continues his vendetta there are two things I would like to state.
First, its a saying that I have heard before and used against his good friend Senator Audens once before on the ML. That saying is, "People in glass houses should not throw stones."
Second, my only word on this subject of the Lex Cornelia Senatoria is this: I wrote the legislation in good faith for presentation and promulgation in the Comitia. I felt that the law was necessary to protect the Board of Directors (Senate) from additional political machinations and motivations. This would have been accomplished by giving the Senate more input on the removal of Senators. That you vetoed it, for whatever reason, was legal and I accepted it. But, I did not deceive you at all. I had full right as Consul of Nova Roma to write the law as I felt was needed. Your and my discussion that occurred on June 14 was fully implemented into the text. On June 18th after discussion with my staff the law was increased to include sections IV, and V. I did not have an obligation to get your approval to promulgate the law, any more than you needed to get my approval to try to promulgate the Gens reform.
Please Censor, be careful of the accusations you throw down, in your attempt to damage my reputation that accusations are not tossed back at you for ethical improprities. I do not think that you or I would want to create another political argument/crises so early in this new year. So, for the benefit of Nova Roma, I ask you publicly to cease and desist.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] C. Minius Messala Bellator for the assistance |
| From: |
Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 02:53:21 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salve!
I have heard your question. Please contact me privately. Yes, there is much to do!!
Vale,
--- gens.minius@club-internet.fr wrote:
> Salve Propraetor,
>
> I am Caļus Minius Messala Bellator. I realize that you need assistance, and I would
> wish to help you and my of the same family. Would you accept of the assistance of
> families of other provinces or have needs only for the citizens of America
> Medioccidentalis Superior? If the assistance of other provinces interests you, we are
> of Gallia and very happy to be with your service for the work of your choice.
> That the gods bless you, dear friend.
>
> Caļus Minius Messala Bellator (Paterfamilias)
> Civis Gallia Provinciae
> Civis Plebiae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Consular Quaestor 2756 AUC
Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France -- French Translator
Scriba Explorator Primus et Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Century Points and the Roman work ethic |
| From: |
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:55:09 +0000 (GMT) |
|
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
Maximus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
Senator Maximus wrote:
> Why should you be rewarded for doing this simple
> thing as a scribe? You start your reward when you
> enter the Cursus Honorum and the people see fit to
> reward your efforts with a magistracy. Then you get
> points in leu of pay.
>
> I hope you understand what I'm saying here.
Certainly I can see the thinking behind your argument,
and it makes a lot of sense. As I've said before, I
would be quite content to do without these points. In
fact when last I looked at my profile, a few days ago,
I hadn't been given them anyway.
I was merely attempting to point out that if we were
all full-blown republican Roman aristocrats, we'd be
fighting tooth and nail for any and all rewards and
recognition we could get, and so to imply that to be
proper Romans we should all be serving the state
without hope of reward is perhaps a less productive
line of argument than the one you take above. Humility
only became a virtue under the Principate, or shortly
before, when Caesar refused the crown. There's a very
interesting article relating to this, I think in JRS,
but as I'm away from home at the moment I can't give
the reference. I'll post it when I get back.
Cordus
=====
www.strategikon.org
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Ruins of ancient Roman tower found |
| From: |
"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:59:35 -0600 |
|
http://www.msnbc.com/news/853540.asp
The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Ruins of ancient Roman tower found |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:36:33 -0000 |
|
---At the law office of James LaSalle?
Oh common, I'm not buying that!!
That's a good one though!!!
Po (in a silly mood)
In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola"
<jlasalle@k...> wrote:
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/853540.asp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
> 417 East 13th Street
> Kansas City, Missouri 64106
> (816).471.2111
> (816).510.0072(cell)
> (816).471.8412(Fax)
> The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney
privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of
the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to
deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact
information in the "reply to" field above and return the original
message to the sender. Thank you.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Truth, Lies, Consular Authority and Ethics |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:21:05 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve Senator Corneli,
> Since this conversation began, I have not responded to Censor M. Octavius's
> baiting and accusations because most of his arguments are specious,
> inflammatory, and designed slander to my dignitas. However, as he
> continues his vendetta there are two things I would like to state.
It was not I who resurrected the subject of last year's vetoes; it was
a member of your gens and your political faction who brought them up
for no apparent reason, even though they had no relevance to the
ongoing debate.
When attacked here, I must defend myself, and I will do so by telling
the truth.
> I had full right as Consul of Nova Roma to write the law as I felt was
> needed. Your and my discussion that occurred on June 14 was fully
> implemented into the text. On June 18th after discussion with my staff
> the law was increased to include sections IV, and V.
Meanwhile, I was asking repeatedly to see it, and you repeatedly refused.
You imagined yourself to be Consul without colleague; you chose to go
around me rather than cooperate. Our relations had been good up to that
point.
You knew that this was a subject that I was deeply concerned with, for
we had spent an entire day negotiating what was to have been the proposed
Lex Cornelia Senatoria. After we had come to an agreement (or so I
thought, for I did not know you were acting in bad faith at that time)
you ignored my repeated requests to see the final text; then called for
a Contio with a proposal that contained considerably more than what we
had agreed upon.
Did you *really* think you could get away with it? After we had spent
an entire day negotiating just how much the Censores powers could be
altered, did you really think that I would sit idly by while you went
far beyond what we had agreed upon?
Did you really think that I wouldn't object to your ham-handed attempts
to disempower the Censores?
You were not acting in "good faith". By attempting to get around me,
by withholding information in spite of repeated requests, you declared
war on your fellow consul, without provocation, and I responded
appropriately.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] List Organization, & ideas to orientate new Citizens |
| From: |
"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:39:45 +0100 |
|
Salve Pompeia,
< Perhaps this greeting, and I believe it is still being used, could be
< expanded to include the addresses of the magistrates to whom
< questions could be directed, like the information on the website. The
<editor of the Eagle could be included here.
Sounds like an excellent idea to me!
< I just found that alot of new people were subscribing thinking 'this
< is all there is', the mainlist, here in NR. A few, it would seem,
< didn't even know about the main website.
That's a real shame, considering that we have an excellent website.
And as far as the discussions on this list (which a few different people
commented on):
I think that the political discussions have to be here, since this mainlist
contains the most citizens. I always encourage people to use their delete
button if they find the political discussions boring! To me, the 'problem'
with the political discussions is not that they become 'heated' but that
newcomers don't know who is who, what or whom a political discussion is
referring to, the duties of the magistrates & appointed assistants, or even
why a certain political discussion is important to Nova Roma in the first
place. It's just a matter of newcomers getting to know Nova Roma, it's
citizens and how things work. But this is just my opinion :-)
What I would like to EVENTUALLY put together is a 'Newcomer's Guide to Nova
Roma', VERY QUICKLY defining in SIMPLE words, the following:
1) a description of Latin terms used
2) The government of Nova Roma with a quick description of the various
positions held and who is currently in office.
3) information on the religio, describing the function of the Priesthood/who
is who/who does what
4) a very quick description of what each law refers to
5) the links to where new citizens can find detailed information on all of
the above
6) the links to where new citizens can find the various laws, the
constitution, a listing of all the various subject specific mailing lists,
who to email for what, and the other NR related websites
7) and last but not least, promotion for the Eagle!
All of the above information can be found on the website in detail, but my
idea is to have the entire thing be just a few pages in Word, or on long
webpage, so that new citizens can see immediately what info is available to
them, so that they don't have to search for it.
Anyway, that was just my idea to help new citizens get orientated quickly !
Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] SVR (response to MCJ's re Let's get organized guys...) |
| From: |
"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:59:25 +0100 |
|
Salve Marcus Cassius Julianus
<The various lists are simply part of our infrastructure. A main reason that
a
<bunch of folks left and founded the SVR was that they felt Nova Roma was
'all
<politics and no cultural interest'.
While I also have been told the above, it seems to me that the SVR was
created with one goal in mind: to put Nova Roma out of business, since the
people who started the SVR left NR in anger.
Former NR citizens who quit NR and then started and/or joined the SVR are
trickling back to Nova Roma under sometimes their third new Roman name. I
have been told by more than one SVR member that since their 'enemies' are no
longer in political power, they are returning or will return soon. So their
'NR is all politics' excuse doesn't seem to fit. I believe the truth is
closer to 'we couldn't get OUR way politically in NR, so we left but now we
are returning because the balance of power has changed.' This bothers me: I
don't have much respect for people who won't fight for their cause, leave
others behind to do it for them, and then return to reap all the benefits
once the coast is clear...
And to being cultural, take a look at the Belgica meeting photos where the
highest magistrates are dressed in sheets and making faces at the camera.
Jeez...
http://home.tiscali.be/mauk.haemers/personal/personal.htm
Vale,
Diana Moravia
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] SVR (response to MCJ's re Let's get organized guys...) |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:10:30 -0800 |
|
Ave Tribune et Omnes,
Well the pendulum has shifted more than once in Nova Roma. There is nothing to prevent it from shifting again. And, if they left NR originally because they didn't like NR then..there is the distinct possibility that in the future they wont like it again.
Unfortunately, this is not the level of citizen we should be attracting in the first place. I am referring to those individuals who view NR as a game and not as a committment.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] SVR (response to MCJ's re Let's get organized guys...)
Salve Marcus Cassius Julianus
<The various lists are simply part of our infrastructure. A main reason that
a
<bunch of folks left and founded the SVR was that they felt Nova Roma was
'all
<politics and no cultural interest'.
While I also have been told the above, it seems to me that the SVR was
created with one goal in mind: to put Nova Roma out of business, since the
people who started the SVR left NR in anger.
Former NR citizens who quit NR and then started and/or joined the SVR are
trickling back to Nova Roma under sometimes their third new Roman name. I
have been told by more than one SVR member that since their 'enemies' are no
longer in political power, they are returning or will return soon. So their
'NR is all politics' excuse doesn't seem to fit. I believe the truth is
closer to 'we couldn't get OUR way politically in NR, so we left but now we
are returning because the balance of power has changed.' This bothers me: I
don't have much respect for people who won't fight for their cause, leave
others behind to do it for them, and then return to reap all the benefits
once the coast is clear...
And to being cultural, take a look at the Belgica meeting photos where the
highest magistrates are dressed in sheets and making faces at the camera.
Jeez...
http://home.tiscali.be/mauk.haemers/personal/personal.htm
Vale,
Diana Moravia
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] SVR (for all to read and judge) |
| From: |
"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:07:46 +0100 |
|
Salvete Quirites Novae Romae et Diana Moravia,
Every now and then, the topic of the Societas Via Romana (SVR) comes up on this list, and every time again, absurd things are being told about that organisation, mainly by people who don't know the first thing about it and its history. Please be so kind as to allow me to explain a thing or two here.
SVR was born in May 2001 after two very distressing episodes here in NR. In March, a few prominent members and their friends had left NR, disheartened by the continuous attacks of their enemies and disappointed in the cultural level of it (most of the people who left were capable, intelligent and competent persons; four senators among them!). In May a similar thing occurred on much smaller basis, after a few laws were voted in which the opposition was decidedly against. If you lose, and you keep losing, and your enemies are doing everything they can to destroy you and your reputation by the most absurd "arguments", you have to draw conclusions from that (note that I myself don't claim innocence, either). And so, we did.
Here the first myth about SVR comes in, that it was designed by all discontented members who left in March or May 2001 as a means to "get back at" Nova Roma or do "have things our way". Fact is that of those who left in March, only three people have joined us and they were not among our founders. SVR was founded by Lucius Silvanius Florus (in NR known as the infamous Formosanus) and Gnaeus Dionysius Scorpio (me). Nowhere have we stated that we were bent on the destruction of NR (although we have always been accused of such by our enemies, who appearently could not grasp the concept of critical opposition). In fact, Florus left SVR in January 2002 after a long discussion about Nova Roma. He wanted to officially declara NR "an abomination" which all of the other people in our Senate found absurd and dangerous.
Also think of the following: if we would only be interested in political roleplay "our way", why would we still be out there, still producing essays, discussing topics and gaining members? Agreed that we are smaller than NR in size, but so what? There have been in the past several "splinter groups" that grew out of citizens' discontentment, but most of them were still-born or imploded once it became clear that politics, and not culture or history, was what bound these people. A part from that, there are enough differences between SVR and NR to speak of two entirely different organisations. Although we are fishing in the same pond, a closer look at our regulations and our goals will show our differences to anyone.
Time to demistify a new myth that has just been launched here: that people who left NR in order to join SVR have "crept" back in "under different names" now that their "enemies" are not in pivotal positions anymore. That's simply absurd. Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix and I have always been here (if you don't count my short-lived resignation of six days), and the rest of SVR's leadership has never returned here. In fact, we have members who have never been members of NR all the same. Perhaps there is some confusion with some people who left in March 2001 and have recently resurfaced here, such as Marcus Marcius Rex. But said excellent gentleman has never been a member of SVR! And as for those "different names", you must be referring to me. I was once known here as Sextus Apollonius Draco, but I changed my nomen to Marcus Octavius Solaris. What of it?
Diana, if you say things, you have to prove them. What I read is just scandal-mongering without concrete names, clear-cut cases or proven examples. Until a month or so back you were a member of SVR, until you suddenly left. Yet we do not bear you ill will. As far as I know - and as you told me in your resignation notice - you didn't hate us either. You had your own reasons and that was perfectly fine. But why start this invective? Why, for Iuppiter's sake, do you bring up events and affairs you only have a fragmentary and distorted knowledge of? If you were unhappy in SVR, you could have discussed it with us, instead of pointlessly venting your grief here and blackening our reputation as an organisation for everyone in NR.
And then, you say this, to finish it off: << and to being cultural, take a look at the Belgica meeting photos where the highest magistrates are dressed in sheets and making faces at the camera. Jeez... http://home.tiscali.be/mauk.haemers/personal/personal.htm >>
Well, sometimes people do things *just for fun* you know? Oh, but you get that allright. You don't mention our philosophical symposia, our staged trial of Cicero, our biographies of writers, our Latin study tips, our vast body of information on ancient religions, our travel report to Greece and the Provincia Romana and our many respectful discussions. Oh yes, and you criticise our cultural level by a non-argument while you addressed me in the nominative case. I mean, is this your *only* argument to discredit our reputation? That three of us dressed up and sang some songs together? How much lower can you go?
I can't believe you openly stab me in my back like this.
Valete bene;
Marcus Octavius Solaris
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] SVR (for all to read and judge) |
| From: |
"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:09:32 +0100 |
|
Salvete ad iterum,
SVR's url didn't come through... the name should've hyperlinked. Here it is: www.societasviaromana.org. Be your own judge.
Valete bene,
Solaris
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Truth, Lies, Consular Authority and Ethics |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:29:08 -0800 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Truth, Lies, Consular Authority and Ethics
Salve Senator Corneli,
> Since this conversation began, I have not responded to Censor M. Octavius's
> baiting and accusations because most of his arguments are specious,
> inflammatory, and designed slander to my dignitas. However, as he
> continues his vendetta there are two things I would like to state.
It was not I who resurrected the subject of last year's vetoes; it was
a member of your gens and your political faction who brought them up
for no apparent reason, even though they had no relevance to the
ongoing debate.
Sulla: My friends and gens members can bring up any discussion they so desire.
When attacked here, I must defend myself, and I will do so by telling
the truth.
Sulla: Again, you are starting to cross the line, Censor.
> I had full right as Consul of Nova Roma to write the law as I felt was
> needed. Your and my discussion that occurred on June 14 was fully
> implemented into the text. On June 18th after discussion with my staff
> the law was increased to include sections IV, and V.
Meanwhile, I was asking repeatedly to see it, and you repeatedly refused.
You imagined yourself to be Consul without colleague; you chose to go
around me rather than cooperate. Our relations had been good up to that
point.
Sulla: Of course you asked to see it on our last email on June 14...and my response was that the law was NOT completed but that our agreement would defiantely be in the text which it was added. I even forwarded it to my consul_sulla_staff list.
You knew that this was a subject that I was deeply concerned with, for
we had spent an entire day negotiating what was to have been the proposed
Lex Cornelia Senatoria. After we had come to an agreement (or so I
thought, for I did not know you were acting in bad faith at that time)
you ignored my repeated requests to see the final text; then called for
a Contio with a proposal that contained considerably more than what we
had agreed upon.
Sulla: Of course I knew it was a subject you were deeply concerned with. I was too which is why I drafted the Lex Senatoria to begin with. I felt that after the high handed actions of our Censors in removing members of the board of directors with no cause and no empowering legislation was a far dangerous precedent. As I have stated above the agreement that you and I made was honored and written into the law. But the law itself was not completed til June 18th a full four (4) days after our discussion.
Did you *really* think you could get away with it? After we had spent
an entire day negotiating just how much the Censores powers could be
altered, did you really think that I would sit idly by while you went
far beyond what we had agreed upon?
Sulla: Get away with what? Promulgating a law that would protect the board of directors from the machinations and political motivations of the Censors? Yes, I thought it was a well reasoned and a law that highlighted common sense, especially after the events that transpired earlier last year.
Did you really think that I wouldn't object to your ham-handed attempts
to disempower the Censores?
Sulla: I thought you would have read the law on the ML with the rest of the citizens and voice your opinion of the law. At worst that is a political mistake, not an ethical one. There is a big difference there. And now Nova Roma suffers from the lack of that law. On top of that I am expecting you to try to remove members of the boni faction from the Senate. We shall see in the coming two years.
You were not acting in "good faith". By attempting to get around me,
by withholding information in spite of repeated requests, you declared
war on your fellow consul, without provocation, and I responded
appropriately.
Sulla: I see, this clears up your actions after this political error. Your motiviation to promulgate the Lex Octavia Salica and your attempts at Gens reform were designed to get back at your fellow consul because you felt I declared war on you? Now it all starts coming together. Your actions were all poltically motiviated. Thank you for declaring that to the entire People of Nova Roma.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: List Organization, & ideas to orientate new Citizens |
| From: |
"Caius Livius Germanicus, KSCA <eq_germanicus@yahoo.com>" <eq_germanicus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:30:12 -0000 |
|
Salvete Civibus!
As a new member I think this is an excellent idea. I myself am
obviously subscribed here but am largely lost as I don't know who
most of these people are. I lurk and learn.
I have made my own little book of copied pages off of the NR site for
quick reference, but some others may really use a quick reference
guide. Maybe a document in the files section here or something would
work.
As far as the political debates etc, I have full use of my delete key
so when I get lost or it doesn't concern/ interest me I make the
appropriate strokes.
At this point i'm still learning about my own famila and still need
to get acquainted with my "neighbors". I am very heartened that
people are genuinely concerned about newcomers like this.
Valete bene!
Caius Cornelius Varus
America Boreoccidentalis
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> What I would like to EVENTUALLY put together is a 'Newcomer's Guide
to Nova
> Roma', VERY QUICKLY defining in SIMPLE words, the following:
> 1) a description of Latin terms used
> 2) The government of Nova Roma with a quick description of the
various
> positions held and who is currently in office.
> 3) information on the religio, describing the function of the
Priesthood/who
> is who/who does what
> 4) a very quick description of what each law refers to
> 5) the links to where new citizens can find detailed information on
all of
> the above
> 6) the links to where new citizens can find the various laws, the
> constitution, a listing of all the various subject specific mailing
lists,
> who to email for what, and the other NR related websites
> 7) and last but not least, promotion for the Eagle!
>
> All of the above information can be found on the website in
detail<snip>
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [Nova-Roma] SVR (response to MCJ's re Let's get organized guys...) |
| From: |
"Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:16:41 +0100 |
|
ante diem VII Id. IANVARIAS MMDCCLVI
SAXUS CORNELIO SALUTEM
> Unfortunately, this is not the level of citizen we should be
> attracting in the first place. I am referring to those
> individuals who view NR as a game and not as a committment.
Art thus undermining the significance of the humaniora in favour of a
blunt, uncouth politicastry?
Vince igitur et vale.
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] =?iso-8859-1?Q?sorry_unbouncing_test?= |
| From: |
"=?iso-8859-1?Q?sa-mann@libero.it?=" <sa-mann@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:44:31 +0100 |
|
RRR!
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] SVR (response to MCJ's re Let's get organized guys...) |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:44:27 -0800 |
|
Avete Saxus Pitrinius et Omnes,
Sir, I do not know who you are. And, have never spoken to you. So, my response to you are at liberty to take whatever opinion you wish. I stand by my statement.
If you would like to chat with me to get to know me I am available on AIM, ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, and MSN Messenger. You can get my contact information from the IM database.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] SVR (response to MCJ's re Let's get organized guys...)
ante diem VII Id. IANVARIAS MMDCCLVI
SAXUS CORNELIO SALUTEM
> Unfortunately, this is not the level of citizen we should be
> attracting in the first place. I am referring to those
> individuals who view NR as a game and not as a committment.
Art thus undermining the significance of the humaniora in favour of a
blunt, uncouth politicastry?
Vince igitur et vale.
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Glass Houses |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:15:49 -0500 (EST) |
|
Senator Sulla;
I am somewhat at loss to determine why my name has been drug into this
argument between yourself and Senator Octavius. I have no idea what
transpired between you during your private discussions while you served
as Consuls. Further it is none of my business. However, if I compare
the actions of you both in the past on this net, and in this
micronation, I find an overwhelming amount of evidence that indicates
that my agreement should follow along the lines of Senator Octavius
rather than yourself. This I have stated previously, and clearly so no
one can misake my views as a Senator and a previous Magistrate serving
the Citizens of NR.
I do not live in a glass house, and with friends and colleagues like
yourself I could not afford to.
I have made no secret of my disapproval of some of your antics, which
you tend to take out of context, in your responses. The one comment in
your latest hysterical diatribe, I do agree with, and that is your
comment about my good friend Senator Octavius. I am pleased to call him
friend, and to recognize his tremendous contributions to Nova Roma. He
has recieved praise from nearly all well-meaning Magistrates and
Citizens in Nova Roma save for perhaps a few souls who for some unknown
reason cling to you and your often strange actions on ths list and in
NR. However, that too is none of my business, and I make no attempt to
fathom such.
I have often privately spoken to you, about these breaches, but to no
avail, as I believe firmly that were you to gain a larger measure of
maturity, we could be good friends as with those others in NR, with whom
I share the very valuable friendship bond. You have a great deal to
give to Nova Roma, and no one realizes that more than I. I have tried
thrice to heal our breach, and your response has been either to ignore
me, or to flash out with something so stupid and so disrupting that I am
forced to make comment as a former Magistrate. However, I have chosen
to withdraw from a Magistry in order to devote more time to other
elements in NR, and within days of that withdrawal, you again choose to
drag my name into an argument where I have no input. Our latest
personal contact was a Chrstmas greeting in which you expressed the hope
that we could at least present our arguments in dignified language.
However, you now drag my name into an argument, between yourself and a
friend of mine where I have no knowledge of the background except to
review the final result, which I agreed with and which I applaud, and
which many of those Honored Senatorial Colleagues agree.
As I have indicated, I stand ready at any occasion to make common cause
with you, and heal our breach. We do not have to agree, but simply to
agree to disagree. There are many things that we agree upon, but your
constant argument, attacks and wild far-flung accusations and sometime
hysterical actions, make such common-cause difficult.
I should not have made the above comments, without your insulting and
unwelcome reference to me in an area where I had little interest and
less involvement.
In closing, I ask please that you too would have a care as to what you
say on this net, who you drag into your unceasing arguments, and who you
accuse of improper actions. As I said, I should like very much to have
the privaledge of living in a "glass house" but I must first make sure
of some sort of lasting truce with those who choose to use my name and
my person irresponsibly.
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Truth, Lies, Consular Authority and Ethics |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:27:19 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve Senator,
> Sulla: Again, you are starting to cross the line, Censor.
You crossed that line a long time ago.
> Sulla: Of course I knew it was a subject you were deeply concerned with.
> I was too which is why I drafted the Lex Senatoria to begin with. I felt that
> after the high handed actions of our Censors in removing members of the
> board of directors with no cause and no empowering legislation
A two year absence without any communciation with the Senate at all is not
sufficient cause?
Your proposed lex did not attempt to modify the Lex Octavia Senatoria by
which the two delinquent Senatores would eventually be removed. It
addressed other issues entirely.
If the Censores are "high handed" it is because they are SENIOR MAGISTRATES,
elected by the People. They have as much authority as the Consuls, but in
a limited area. Why are you so obsessed with limiting and controlling the
Censores but have never tried to limit the Consuls?
How many laws did you pass last year to protect us from Consuls?
> But the law itself was not completed til June 18th a full four (4)
> days after our discussion.
And you still couldn't send it to me at least a few hours before calling
for a vote on it? There were multiple problems with that lex - not only
were parts of it objectionable (to me), but much of it was vague and
logically flawed.
For instance, you wrote that a Nota shall be temporary, but give no guidelines
toward duration or ending the Nota. Thus, the Censores could proclaim a Nota
lasting 99 years - and there was nothing in the law about how to end that
Nota, or stating that the Senate might adjust it.
Setting aside for the moment whether your goals were worthy - this was a
bad, bad law. The logic and grammar were wretched.
> Sulla: Get away with what?
"Get away with" slipping a law past me that you knew I would object to, and,
of leading me to think that "Lex Cornelia Senatoria" meant "A", when actually
it meant "A, B, and C".
> Promulgating a law that would protect the board of directors from the
> machinations and political motivations of the Censors?
But what protects the Censores from the machinations and political
motivations of a Consul?
> Sulla: I thought you would have read the law on the ML with the rest of
> the citizens and voice your opinion of the law.
Does the Vice-President of the United States learn about new legislation
from the evening news?
Up until that point, we had been operating as a team. All of our proposals
were reviewed by the other, and no request by a Consul to see what the other
Consul was intending to put up for a vote had been denied.
> At worst that is a political mistake, not an ethical one.
In my opinion, it was both.
> And now Nova Roma suffers from the lack of that law.
Nova Roma is better off without that law. The one good thing it had was
the ability for the Senate as a whole to override a Nota - but the language
in that section was so clumsy and vague as to be useless. If you *had* let
me review and comment on it ahead of time, a logically sound version of that
probably would be the law right now.
> On top of that I am expecting you to try to remove members of the boni
> faction from the Senate. We shall see in the coming two years.
Did you not notice that we *added* a member of the "boni" to the
Senate last month? How does that fit into your conspiracy theories?
If any Notae are to be issued in the next two years, it will be done only
after evidence of specific acts of wrongdoing (occurring during these next
two years) has been presented by multiple credible witnesses, or has been
determined by a court.
I hereby swear, by all the Gods of Rome, that I will never use a Nota
for the purpose of silencing an adversary.
> Your motiviation to promulgate the Lex Octavia Salica and your attempts at
> Gens reform were designed to get back at your fellow consul
Wrong. That was a good and necessary law. And, even though you yourself
are now out of office and irrelevant, the edict will be renewed this year.
The deeper gens reform was later discussed only because some of your allies
had claimed the Lex Octavia Salicia was "unhistorical". As it turned out,
you didn't want a historical solution either - the cries of "unhistorical"
were merely a tactic to buy time and derail the original proposal.
> Your actions were all poltically motiviated.
And what of your actions in June? You didn't like the decisions of the
Censores earlier in the year, so you set out to punish them by severely
curtailing their power - and, knowing that your colleague had supported
the Censores then, you withheld information from me.
> Thank you for declaring that to the entire People of Nova Roma.
I have declared nothing of the sort. The People of Nova Roma will
not be fooled by your lies and misrepresentation.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Ancient Domains spam? |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 07 Jan 2003 19:36:50 -0000 |
|
I received an unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM) in my
yahoomail account today from Ancient Domains. Since the NovaRoma
mainlist is the only place in the entire net where I list this
e-mail address, I'm satisfied that someone is harvesting e-mail
addresses here.
I know that Yahoo is a for-profit business, but I don't think
this sort of address harvesting falls under what's allowed
in their Terms of Service.
Is there anything we can do to stop this?
-- Marinus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Ancient Domains spam? |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:34:56 -0800 |
|
I got the same email.
Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:36 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Ancient Domains spam?
I received an unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM) in my
yahoomail account today from Ancient Domains. Since the NovaRoma
mainlist is the only place in the entire net where I list this
e-mail address, I'm satisfied that someone is harvesting e-mail
addresses here.
I know that Yahoo is a for-profit business, but I don't think
this sort of address harvesting falls under what's allowed
in their Terms of Service.
Is there anything we can do to stop this?
-- Marinus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Oath of Plebeian Aedile Curio |
| From: |
"curiobritannicus <Marcusaemiliusscaurus@hotmail.com>" <Marcusaemiliusscaurus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:24:46 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes,
My apologies for the belated oath - I have been away for the last few
days.
I, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus(Daniel Eichner) do hereby
solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
(Daniel Eichner) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my
public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.
I, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus(Daniel Eichner) swear to
uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion.
I, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus(Daniel Eichner) swear to
protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.
I, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus(Daniel Eichner) further swear
to
fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of
Plebeian Aedile of Nova Roma to the best of my abilities.
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Plebeian Aedile of Nova Roma and all the
rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: SVR (for all to read and judge) |
| From: |
"Spurius Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:43:14 -0500 |
|
Sp. Postumius Tubertus M. Octavio Solari Dianaeque Moraviae Aventinae et Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dicit
Salvete,
Ad Quirites: Before I begin my longwinded talking, I would first like to thank you, Marce Octavi, for your posting on this matter. I
felt it was highly warranted, well written, and greatly explanatory of the SVR.
> Also think of the following: if we would only be interested in political roleplay "our way", why would we still be out there,
still producing essays, discussing topics and gaining members? Agreed that we are smaller than NR in size, but so what? There have
been in the past several "splinter groups" that grew out of citizens' discontentment, but most of them were still-born or imploded
once it became clear that politics, and not culture or history, was what bound these people. A part from that, there are enough
differences between SVR and NR to speak of two entirely different organisations. Although we are fishing in the same pond, a closer
look at our regulations and our goals will show our differences to anyone.
Ad Solarem: Very much agreed. The SVR, as I see it, is a far more cultural organization than NR is. Don't take this the wrong way,
though. I do feel that NR has its share of culture, but this could use some serious improvement, however I will admit that I'm no
good in this area myself.
> Time to demistify a new myth that has just been launched here: that people who left NR in order to join SVR have "crept" back in
"under different names" now that their "enemies" are not in pivotal positions anymore. That's simply absurd. Tiberius Apollonius
Cicatrix and I have always been here (if you don't count my short-lived resignation of six days), and the rest of SVR's leadership
has never returned here. In fact, we have members who have never been members of NR all the same. Perhaps there is some confusion
with some people who left in March 2001 and have recently resurfaced here, such as Marcus Marcius Rex. But said excellent gentleman
has never been a member of SVR! And as for those "different names", you must be referring to me. I was once known here as Sextus
Apollonius Draco, but I changed my nomen to Marcus Octavius Solaris. What of it?
>
Ad Moraviam Aventinam: If I may, Ti. Apollonius has performed well in both his roles here and there. Why criticize others for doing
well? Is this a showing of your own inadequacies? As far as I've seen from you, I wouldn't expect this at all.
Ad Moraviam Aventinam: And since we want to get on the topic of having dual names, if anything I left the SVR and came back, rather
than NR. Does that make me a bad citizen of the SVR (Solaris would know me as the infamous inactive princeps gentis of the gens
Tullia)? Or a bad citizen of NR? Would it make you happy to see my resignation from both, so that you could pronounce me as a bad
citizen? You can do that without my resignation, because you'll never get it.
> Diana, if you say things, you have to prove them.
Very much agreed, Solaris.
> What I read is just scandal-mongering without concrete names, clear-cut cases or proven examples.
Haven't we seen this before? With multiple citizenships and voter fraud? I hope what my instincts say are wrong.
> Until a month or so back you were a member of SVR, until you suddenly left. Yet we do not bear you ill will. As far as I know -
and as you told me in your resignation notice - you didn't hate us either. You had your own reasons and that was perfectly fine. But
why start this invective? Why, for Iuppiter's sake, do you bring up events and affairs you only have a fragmentary and distorted
knowledge of? If you were unhappy in SVR, you could have discussed it with us, instead of pointlessly venting your grief here and
blackening our reputation as an organisation for everyone in NR.
Ad Moraviam Aventinam: And even if you didn't want to discuss it with them (us, as I am one, in a since, I suppose), why start
trying to rouse up the citizens here against the SVR? Doesn't make any sense to me.
> And then, you say this, to finish it off: << and to being cultural, take a look at the Belgica meeting photos where the highest
magistrates are dressed in sheets and making faces at the camera. Jeez... http://home.tiscali.be/mauk.haemers/personal/personal.htm
>>
>
> Well, sometimes people do things *just for fun* you know? Oh, but you get that allright. You don't mention our philosophical
symposia, our staged trial of Cicero, our biographies of writers, our Latin study tips, our vast body of information on ancient
religions, our travel report to Greece and the Provincia Romana and our many respectful discussions. Oh yes, and you criticise our
cultural level by a non-argument while you addressed me in the nominative case. I mean, is this your *only* argument to discredit
our reputation? That three of us dressed up and sang some songs together? How much lower can you go?
Ad Moraviam Aventinam: I do happen to like the trial of Cicero, though that has implications on the M. Tullius of the SVR (i.e.,
me). For those who are interested, and care to use the material and the opportunity, the SVR is a repository of cultural and
historical knowledge. That's why I'm there. I must now agree with Solaris. Why discredit a reputation because a few people had fun
(harmless to anyone or anything)? I have the same question as Solaris: How much lower can this go?
> I can't believe you openly stab me in my back like this.
And I can't believe it either.
In closing, I would like to ask you, Diana Moravia, where is all this coming from? Honestly, if you are so angry with the SVR, or
dislike it that much, why vent it to people who have been seperating the two? SVR and NR are two different organizations. Why try to
link the two with hatred for each other when there is really no need for it?
In Question,
Spurius Postumius Tubertus (NR)
M. Tullius Cicero (SVR)
Citizen and Learner
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] =?iso-8859-1?Q?bouncing_test?= |
| From: |
"=?iso-8859-1?Q?sa-mann@libero.it?=" <sa-mann@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:38:06 +0100 |
|
I am not receiving posts anymore. Why?
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: SVR (for all to read and judge) |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:40:40 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/7/03 12:42:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
postumius@gmx.net writes:
> Before I begin my longwinded talking, I would first like to thank you, Marce
> Octavi, for your posting on this matter. I
> felt it was highly warranted, well written, and greatly explanatory of the
> SVR.
>
Why on the gods green earth must we listen to this dung by deserters from
Nova Roma?
Fact one: You did not like the political climate here. You took it upon
yourself to launch vendettas against several gens that did not agree with
your views. Your leader in his manifesto made it very clear that he wished
the current constitution eliminated and a new one written more favorable to
his views. Your excuse? Oppressive rules, and lack of Roman culture being
imitated.
Fact two: When you did not get your way after a failure in a pivotal Senate
vote, you all left, making theatrical resignation speeches about how you go
to a better place, and how everybody who didn't like it here could go with
you. So twice you tried to break up Nova Roma, once covertly, once overtly.
You must have been very disappointed when the bulk of the "sheep" didn't
follow your lead. The point is you deserted Nova Roma and left your
treasured citizenship. This is something Romans never do.
Fact three. By your own admission you hold a dual citizenship. That's OK if
we are just clubs. But we are by our own declaration, a nation. A nation
depends on the loyalty of its citizens to maintain its strength. You
attempted to topple this nation. The fact that it was all fun & games to you
guys makes no difference to me, or Roman Law.
An analogy would be if you robbed a bank as a lark, and then gave the money
back when you were caught. Doesn't matter. You are still going to jail.
If you want to be a magistrate here you will have to resign your
"citizenship" in SVR as D. Moravia did. That way there is no conflict of
interests. The fact you still hold two citizenships makes me wonder where
your true loyalty lies.
Q. Fabius Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Ancient Domains spam? |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:03:01 -0000 |
|
Salve,
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<equitius_marinus@y...>" <equitius_marinus@y...> wrote:
> I received an unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM) in my
> yahoomail account today from Ancient Domains
I too received the AD spam and I do not have a Yahoo email account.
A "spider" could have scoured the Nova Roma website and uncovered the
addresses, even though I put mine as "private" in hopes to avoid that
happening. Another possibility is a spider trolling through Yahoo
picking up our email addy's as well. If it is a citizen that is
doing this I ask, please stop, you are violating the Lex Cornelia de
Privatis Rebus.
Vale,
Q. Cassius Calvus
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Of Glorious Rhetorics and the Less than Glorious Truth (was: SVR ) |
| From: |
"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:57:53 +0100 |
|
Marcus Octavius Solaris Quiritibus Novae Romae et Quinto Fabio Maximo SPD,
TO QUINTUS FABIUS
Quinte Fabi, appearently, you cannot handle reality.
You continually keep misrepresenting facts (see below). Either your memory works incorrectly (which, for a historian, would be a severe handicap) or you are acting from malice. Once more we see coming from you pompous, absurd rhetorics with no end. Let's see how good it can handle reality.
<< Why on the gods green earth must we listen to this dung by deserters from Nova Roma? >>
MOS: Then don't. Your keyboard has a delete button.
<< Fact one: You did not like the political climate here. You took it upon yourself to launch vendettas against several gens that did not agree with your views. >>
MOS: You are talking about *one* gens, gens Cornelia. I had serious arguments with some Cornelii, but I never launched anything like a vendetta (let alone vendettas). Unless you can offer me proof, black on white, you are grossly distorting reality here. In fact I have pretty good relations with, for instance, Pompeia Cornelia. As she will testify.
<< Your leader in his manifesto made it very clear that he wished the current constitution eliminated and a new one written more favorable to his views. Your excuse? Oppressive rules, and lack of Roman culture being imitated. >>
MOS: We had no leader. We did not want the constitution to be eliminated. Take a look at this: http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2000/2000-11-22.html#M0015. The "leader" you are talking about was *one* extremely complicated and controversial personality which we ourselves had problems with (in spite of his honesty and intelligence), namely Marcus Apollonius Formosanus. He also left SVR, which is not a surprise.
<< Fact two: When you did not get your way after a failure in a pivotal Senate vote, you all left, making theatrical resignation speeches about how you go to a better place, and how everybody who didn't like it here could go with you. >>
MOS: Once again your memory appears to be failing you. You confuse THREE seperate instances. The failure of the Senate vote (my post-election approval as Aedilis Plebis) you speak of was in January 2001 (http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2001/2001-01-01.html#M0015).The "theatrical resignation" you speak of was three months later, in March(http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2001/index03-15.html and following days) and the "speeches of a better place" were made by those who remained and left in December (http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2001/index12-15.html and days in that area).
<< So twice you tried to break up Nova Roma, once covertly, once overtly. >>
MOS: Documentary proof required.
<< You must have been very disappointed when the bulk of the "sheep" didn't follow your lead. The point is you deserted Nova Roma and left your treasured citizenship. This is something Romans never do. >>
MOS: They couldn't do it, unless by death or exile. It had too many advantages. You draw false historical comparisons to justify your position.
<< Fact three. By your own admission you hold a dual citizenship. That's OK if we are just clubs. But we are by our own declaration, a nation. A nation depends on the loyalty of its citizens to maintain its strength. You attempted to topple this nation. The fact that it was all fun & games to you guys makes no difference to me, or Roman Law.An analogy would be if you robbed a bank as a lark, and then gave the money back when you were caught. Doesn't matter. You are still going to jail. >>
MOS: SVR is not a micronation and you have no speck of evidence for your other accusations. And in case you were unaware of it, in the real world dual citizenship does exist and no one minds. Wake up and smell the coffee: we live in the 21st century!
<< If you want to be a magistrate here you will have to resign your "citizenship" in SVR as D. Moravia did. That way there is no conflict of interests. The fact you still hold two citizenships makes me wonder where your true loyalty lies. >>
MOS: I don't want to be a magistrate. Where did I say that? And in order to avoid "conflict of interest" I did not take up my position as elected Aedilis Plebis in January 2002 but instead retracted. Besides, following your twisted logic, this means that Ti. Apollonius Cicatrix and M. Scribonius Curio should resign, or that M. Arminius Maior should have resigned, or Cl. Salix Davianus (all four are or have been in our Senate). One can be involved in both places. Only you would brand such hard-working, honest and intelligent people as "traitors".
Valete optime in pace Deorum,
Marcus Octavius Solaris
PS: I won't be back until Friday, in case someone here might need me.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: SVR (for all to read and judge) |
| From: |
"sceptia <sceptia@yahoo.es>" <sceptia@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 07 Jan 2003 23:09:56 -0000 |
|
Honorable Maximus
I came back to the Forum just to say a few words.
It seems very "loyable" from you to affirm that being a SVR member is
going against Nova Roman Laws, but maybe you forget a fact (perhaps
one that on your strong hate on SVR memberships you forgot) that is
quite important.
Fact Four: It maybe could have been more intelligent, but any
judgement must be done by each citizen. The fact four is: why fight
a "club" or a "nation" or a "asociation" instead of asking ourselves
WHY they leave and HOW could we get them back?
Maybe Honorable Maximus desires "purity" on any novarroman citizen.
Perhaps he understands "purity" as the high standards of morality he
told us about a few weeks before. Could it be that he can't just
negotiate to rejoin this people who, maybe, are just trying to do
exactly the same as us but on antoher way. Could it be that asking
SVR members why the left NR we could learn a little about our
politics.
One of my goals in Hispania this year as Legatus Externis is to
conect any organization related to Roman world and join them all in
Nova Roma Hispania. But I can't do that if we can't offer them a
proper Nova Roma Organization. What do I mean? Maybe that working
together with all the people that is trying to do the same can be a
benefit more than a harm.
You see a conflict of interest. I see a chance to get a bridge with
SVR and other organizations. But of course, to negotiate and make
truth the rephrane "Pax, Concordia, Felicitas" is not yours, as I
hear from you and some others. A pity, because we'll loose citizens
and gain nothing for our "purity".
A bridge or a harm? That is my question.
Vale bene,
L. Didius Geminus Sceptius
- Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae -
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/7/03 12:42:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> postumius@g... writes:
>
>
> > Before I begin my longwinded talking, I would first like to thank
you, Marce
> > Octavi, for your posting on this matter. I
> > felt it was highly warranted, well written, and greatly
explanatory of the
> > SVR.
> >
>
> Why on the gods green earth must we listen to this dung by
deserters from
> Nova Roma?
>
> Fact one: You did not like the political climate here. You took it
upon
> yourself to launch vendettas against several gens that did not
agree with
> your views. Your leader in his manifesto made it very clear that
he wished
> the current constitution eliminated and a new one written more
favorable to
> his views. Your excuse? Oppressive rules, and lack of Roman
culture being
> imitated.
>
> Fact two: When you did not get your way after a failure in a
pivotal Senate
> vote, you all left, making theatrical resignation speeches about
how you go
> to a better place, and how everybody who didn't like it here could
go with
> you. So twice you tried to break up Nova Roma, once covertly, once
overtly.
> You must have been very disappointed when the bulk of the "sheep"
didn't
> follow your lead. The point is you deserted Nova Roma and left
your
> treasured citizenship. This is something Romans never do.
>
> Fact three. By your own admission you hold a dual citizenship.
That's OK if
> we are just clubs. But we are by our own declaration, a nation. A
nation
> depends on the loyalty of its citizens to maintain its strength.
You
> attempted to topple this nation. The fact that it was all fun &
games to you
> guys makes no difference to me, or Roman Law.
> An analogy would be if you robbed a bank as a lark, and then gave
the money
> back when you were caught. Doesn't matter. You are still going to
jail.
>
> If you want to be a magistrate here you will have to resign your
> "citizenship" in SVR as D. Moravia did. That way there is no
conflict of
> interests. The fact you still hold two citizenships makes me
wonder where
> your true loyalty lies.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: SVR (for all to read and judge) |
| From: |
"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 07 Jan 2003 23:14:56 -0000 |
|
--- Salvete Omnes:
In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/7/03 12:42:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> postumius@g... writes:
>
>
> > Before I begin my longwinded talking, I would first like to thank
you, Marce
> > Octavi, for your posting on this matter. I
> > felt it was highly warranted, well written, and greatly
explanatory of the
> > SVR.
> >
>
> Why on the gods green earth must we listen to this dung by
deserters from
> Nova Roma?
>
> Fact one: You did not like the political climate here. You took it
upon
> yourself to launch vendettas against several gens that did not
agree with
> your views. Your leader in his manifesto made it very clear that
he wished
> the current constitution eliminated and a new one written more
favorable to
> his views. Your excuse? Oppressive rules, and lack of Roman
culture being
> imitated.
POMPEIA: With respect, Q. Fabi,I think you are being rather harsh.
There are those who joined the SVR perhaps by virtue of stumbling on
the website and thought it was a great venue, nothing more. I find
it difficult to believe that the entire SVR population is there
mearly to grind an axe with Nova Roma. Unless you have information
to the affect that they are indeed 'all' there for said purpose.
>
> Fact two: When you did not get your way after a failure in a
pivotal Senate
> vote, you all left, making theatrical resignation speeches about
how you go
> to a better place, and how everybody who didn't like it here could
go with
> you. So twice you tried to break up Nova Roma, once covertly, once
overtly.
> You must have been very disappointed when the bulk of the "sheep"
didn't
> follow your lead. The point is you deserted Nova Roma and left
your
> treasured citizenship. This is something Romans never do.
POMPEIA: Ibid
>
> Fact three. By your own admission you hold a dual citizenship.
That's OK if
> we are just clubs. But we are by our own declaration, a nation. A
nation
> depends on the loyalty of its citizens to maintain its strength.
You
> attempted to topple this nation. The fact that it was all fun &
games to you
> guys makes no difference to me, or Roman Law.
> An analogy would be if you robbed a bank as a lark, and then gave
the money
> back when you were caught. Doesn't matter. You are still going to
jail.
>
> If you want to be a magistrate here you will have to resign your
> "citizenship" in SVR as D. Moravia did. That way there is no
conflict of
> interests. The fact you still hold two citizenships makes me
wonder where
> your true loyalty lies.
>
POMPEIA: Quinte Fabi, would you mind showing me in our laws in Nova
Roma where NR citizens cannot hold magistracies both here and the SVR?
We have had several examples this past year of those who held
positions both here and the SVR. We have seen some very positive
participation and outcomes for Nova Roma from persons you see as
militant NR protestees.
The Consul of the SVR 2755, Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix and his
Plebian Aedile staff, did an exemplary job in organizing and staging
Ludi in honour of Apollo and the Plebian People.
The other Plebian Aedile, Marcus Scribonius Britannicus Curio held a
ludi also, and sorry, I can't remember much about that one.....think
I was working a much.
Two of the Tribs of last year were members of the SVR.
So no, Postumi, nor any other NR citizen does not legally 'owe' a
resignation from the SVR to run for office here.
And as much as we would like to think we have it all together, some
respectfully disagree, and would prefer a different venue. No one
list, organization, micronation or 'club' has a license to celebrate
Romanitas.
Please try not to be so harsh with these people. All members of the
SVR are not clones of political NR opponents.
Bene valete,
Pompeia
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Ancient Domains spam? |
| From: |
"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar> |
| Date: |
Tue, 07 Jan 2003 23:30:45 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes.
Me too I received that spam.
Valete bene
L. Pompeius Octavianus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<equitius_marinus@y...>" <equitius_marinus@y...> wrote:
> I received an unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM) in my
> yahoomail account today from Ancient Domains. Since the NovaRoma
> mainlist is the only place in the entire net where I list this
> e-mail address, I'm satisfied that someone is harvesting e-mail
> addresses here.
>
> I know that Yahoo is a for-profit business, but I don't think
> this sort of address harvesting falls under what's allowed
> in their Terms of Service.
>
> Is there anything we can do to stop this?
>
> -- Marinus
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Nova Roma Reading Club? |
| From: |
"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:47:01 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
Has anyone in NR ever suggested creating a book discussion list along
the lines of a reading club? The members could take turns selecting a
Classical themed book (Roman or Greek literature, historical/scholarly
text, or historical fiction), set up a schedule (so many chapters or
pages a week) to keep everyone more or less in synch, and then discuss
the past weeks reading on the list. It seems to me that it would be an
excellent social and learning experience. Also, if individuals purchased
their books from Amazon.com (through Nova Roma's referral system) on
occasion, it would even help generate some revenue for the treasury.
Would anyone else be interested in doing something like this? Or is
anyone already doing it, and I've just missed the boat?
Valete,
C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
RE: [Nova-Roma] SVR (read and judged) |
| From: |
"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be> |
| Date: |
Wed, 8 Jan 2003 00:58:25 +0100 |
|
Salve Solaris,
Whoah, I didn't realize that I'd hit such a nerve. I didn't mean to.
>But why start this invective?
I had to look up 'invective' in the dictionary: violent and verbal
denunciation. Thanks for expanding my vocabulary (really!), but I do think
that referring to my email as invective is a bit too strong.
>How much lower can you go?
Huh? Me, low? I think that your email, which had a number of comments
directed specifically to me, was much more 'invective' and 'low' than my
general opinion about the SVR, which was not directed at you or anyone else
here. It was just that: my opinion.
> Diana, if you say things, you have to prove them.
LOL ! Prove what, pray tell? Is it now in the constitution of Nova Roma that
if I say something about ANOTHER group I have to provide proof ? You again
act as if I attacked you and the other people listed in your email. YOU are
the one who started name dropping, not me.... And YOU are the one who gave
names to the young men in the sheets, not me. I gave my opinion based on
things verbally said to me or written in emails. But maybe you want me to
'prove' who said what so that you can give them Hell in the SVR for wanting
to return to NR? In any case, you won't get that info from me.
< I can't believe you openly stab me in my back like this.
Huh?? Sorry that you feel that way. Again, you are taking this as a personal
attack and it wasn't.
If you were not one of the leaders of the SVR, and had not also placed
yourself in a 'rival' group, you would have never reacted in such an
obviously oversensitive manner to my email. But having placed yourself in
this position, you have to realize that when you have your own group, there
will always be people who find fault with it. Get used to it, or you will
find yourself wasting many hours sending long defensive emails and only
succeeding in making yourself upset.
Vale,
Diana Moravia
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