Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Flag Mugs
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:20:27 -0500

Salve Romans

In an effort to build up the necessary fund to help defray the costs associated with publishing the Eagle, the Eagle staff is offering for sale a Nova Roma Flag mug. The mug will have the Nova Roma flag on it and will be either white or red. The cost of the mug is $7.00 plus 1.50 for S&H.

In order not to incur needless we will be taking orders for the mug and THEN ordering them. If you would like to help the Eagle staff publish the best Newsletter, then please buy a mug or two. Please send you order and payment to

Eagle Mug
5496 Ross Court
New Market, Maryland 21774

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum et Quaestor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Palladius, Candidate for Praetor
From:	"deciusiunius <bcatfd@together.net>" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:38:08 -0000

Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

I am writing you to ask for your vote in the runoff election for
praetor that is about to be held. I need your help to win this
election--every vote counts. This is the second runoff election; it
has been a close race. You the voter have had to make a difficult
decision in this election. Both of the other candidates are honorable
men with fine records of service to Nova Roma. However, I believe I
am the best candidate for the job for several reasons: my experience;
my temperament; and my vision for Nova Roma.

I have been politically involved in Nova Roma since its Founding in
March of 1998. In the intervening years since the Founding, I have
served in many positions including censor, consul and serve still as
senator. I was the first person to hold the office of praetor in Nova
Roma. Now, after a two-year hiatus of holding an elected office, I am
again seeking the office of praetor, where I can use my experience to
improve the position of Praetor and Nova Roma itself. No other
candidate has the length or breadth of service to our Republic that I
do.

My temperament also makes me the best candidate for this position. I
am known by people of all political persuasions to be a reasonable
man, one who does not participate in the personal (and personality
driven) politics so unfortunately common in Nova Roma. I treat
everyone fairly; an essential trait in dealing with the legal cases
that may come before the Praetors. Evenhanded in my dealings, I will
not be provoked to rash action and will not fail to do my duty to
Nova Roma. Part of the job of praetor is to moderate the main email
mailing list. I pledge a light hand as moderator. The main list is
one of the major ways Nova Romans get to know each other as a
community; thus I think as many topics as possible should be
discussed there as long as it is done civilly.

My vision for Nova Roma is to keep us on the path we have followed
since the Founding. That mission is to be an organization that is the
heir to pagan classical Rome, dedicated to restoring Roman culture as
much as practical in the modern world, with only those concessions to
modernity that are absolutely necessary. By staying on that path, we
will eventually, I hope, come to be seen as the center of Romantitas
in the world. In all my actions I will keep our mission foremost in
my mind, and view each situation in light of historical authenticity
and practicality.

Thank you for your time and consideration. If you voted for me in the
last election, I ask for your support again. If you did not vote for
me, I ask you to consider voting for me this time. I will strive
everyday to be worthy of your trust.

In Service to Nova Roma,

Decius Iunius Palladius,
Senator Consularis
Candidate for Praetor

P.S. For your convenience, I include the URL to the Cista, the voting
web page: http://novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/index.html .
Voting will be held from 18:01 Roman time (12:01 EST) Saturday 11
January, to 18:01 Roman time (12:01 PM EST) 16 January.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Movies of Rome
From:	"csorik janos" <csorikjanos@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 02:58:40 +0200

Salvete omnes

I am not sure that this is the right place to post this message but i see
no other reliable way. I am looking for some dvd rips of some great classic
movies like Spartacus, Cleopatra, Ben Hur, I Claudius... I have myself some
very good classic and modern movies in exchange. So please send me a mail to
csorikjanos@hotmail.com if you can help me. Thank you very much for your
attention.

Yours GAIUS MARIUS CRASSUS
Ubi concordia, ubi victoria.

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Cincinnatus Website
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:18:39 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aerdensrw <aerdensrw@y...>"
<aerdensrw@y...> wrote:
> I'd have had more respect for him if he'd used a better source than
a
> fairy-tale - like story by Sen. Byrd. The story in and of itself
was
> full of holes. Still, I do agree that Cincinnatus was an admirable
> man, so at least this guy had that right. (g)

Salve,

I too went to the site. It's a shame that such a poor site is
dedicated to such a great man of history. Though in my admiration
list I place Cincinnatus as second and Cato the Elder as first. Cato
the Elder did what he believed was right no matter the personal
consequences. It is easy to love Cincinnatus. Its much harder to
love Cato the Elder but one must respect his personal courage and
fortituted even if he did "mellow" in his later years.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Fwd: Anti-spamming policy (from Ancient Domains)
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:13:28 -0500

As instructed by Consul Caeso Fabius, I made inquiries at Ancient
Domains about the unsolicited e-mail many of us received. Here is their
reply, which includes an apology and a promise not to do this again. I
am pleased with this response and hope it clears up any
misunderstandings.

P. Cassia

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Customer Service " <cs@ancientdomains.com>
> Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:40:32 PM US/Eastern
> To: "'Patricia Cassia'" <pcassia@novaroma.org>
> Subject: RE: Anti-spamming policy
>
> Greetings!
>
> Thank you for your email. We have investigated this and found that one
> of our staff did in fact send an email to several members of your
> group,
> without our knowledge, thinking that they might be interested in
> joining
> our website. We have determined that they were not harvesting email
> addresses, however, but felt that the people who were contacted might
> also be interested in participating at AncientDomains. We have
> rectified this matter since this comes under our anti-spamming policy.
>
> We have joined several Yahoo groups in the interest of keeping up with
> what other groups are doing and the interests that they have. The only
> thing we, as an organization have done, is add a link to the link areas
> in these groups showing Ancient Domains as a site with similar
> interests
> to those that we have joined. We do not generally get the daily emails
> from these groups, but from to time in our website reviews, take a look
> at what is going on at these groups. We do take an active interest in
> several communities, including yours, however, those of us that
> participate in your community, do so privately, not through our
> organization.
>
> We were unaware that a member of our staff had made a list of your
> members and sent an email to them. We thank you for bringing this to
> our attention so that we can deal with the matter swiftly. We do not
> participate in unsolicited emails or spam of any kind and have strict
> policy regarding this type of thing.
>
> Please be assured that we have dealt with this matter internally
> swiftly. We do ask that if you or anyone in your group receives any
> further unsolicited emails, that they immediately send us an email
> asking to be removed from the list. We have several companies which
> maintain mailing lists for us and while we believe we have removed the
> names of your members from these lists as well, and we can guarantee
> the
> removal from the lists that we maintain, we cannot guarantee the
> accuracy of those companies we deal with to insure that all the names
> will be removed promptly. Your assistance in this area is appreciated
> in
> order to insure that members of Nova Roma do not receive any further
> unsolicited emails.
>
> We take this opportunity to apologize to those who received these
> emails
> and hope that you will take the time to visit our site and if you find
> it valuable, choose to participate.
>
> Sincerely,
> Customer Service
> AncientDomains
> Your Portal to the Ancient World
> http://www.ancientdomains.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patricia Cassia [mailto:pcassia@novaroma.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:48 PM
> To: cs@ancientdomains.com
> Subject: Anti-spamming policy
>
> Greetings!
>
> I am writing on behalf of Nova Roma, which as I'm sure you know is a
> large and active organization dedicated to the history of ancient Rome.
> Many of our members (Citizens) are also members of historical
> role-playing groups, either online or in person, and as such we welcome
> your efforts at bringing our favorite time period to life.
>
> It has come to my attention, however, that Citizens' e-mail addresses
> have been harvested from our internal forums and our Web sites, for the
> purpose of promoting your site through unsolicited e-mail. This appears
> to me to contradict the anti-spamming policy posted on your site:
>
>> We have a strict policy against spamming. We forbid the sending of
>> unsolicited mass Emails or unsolicited Emails of any kind in
>> connection with the marketing of our programs, products and services.
>>
> We also note that someone using your address (cs@ancientdomains.com)
> has joined our e-mail list. If this is for the purpose of participating
> in our community and building a greater understanding of ancient
> history, then we welcome your presence. However, the fact that the
> address was added to the list just a few weeks before the sending of
> the "spam" messages makes it difficult to avoid the conclusion that
> someone in your organization joined our list for the purpose of
> harvesting e-mail addresses. As you may be aware, this violates the
> Terms of Service of Yahoo Groups, which includes this clause:
>
>> Members may not use our service to send unsolicited or unauthorized
>> advertising, promotional materials, spam, chain letters,
>> multilevel/pyramid schemes, or any other form of solicitation.
>
> If you are using our lists for this purpose, we ask that you cease
> sending unsolicited e-mail to our Citizens immediately. Nova Roma
> wishes to dwell in harmony with other groups interested in ancient
> history, but we do not wish to do so at the price of having our privacy
> violated.
>
> If someone, inside or outside of your organization, is abusing Ancient
> Domains' name, we hope that this message will alert you to a problem
> and I offer whatever assistance I can in helping you track down the
> responsible party. Such e-mails do your service no good, and indeed
> build ill will toward Ancient Domains. I'm sure that's not what you
> would want for your organization.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -----
> Patricia Cassia
> Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
> Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Movies of Rome
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:59:48 -0600

I heard a great movie called "Scipio Africanus" was made in the 1930's in italy under Mussolini. I'd like to see that.

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: csorik janos
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:58 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Movies of Rome

Salvete omnes

I am not sure that this is the right place to post this message but i see
no other reliable way. I am looking for some dvd rips of some great classic
movies like Spartacus, Cleopatra, Ben Hur, I Claudius... I have myself some
very good classic and modern movies in exchange. So please send me a mail to
csorikjanos@hotmail.com if you can help me. Thank you very much for your
attention.

Yours GAIUS MARIUS CRASSUS
Ubi concordia, ubi victoria.

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Cincinnatus Website
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:03:49 -0600

Corva

I agree with what you say. Most people take their histroy about Rome from movies like Quo Vadis and Spartacus, and that other piece of crap with Victor Mature. Those movies portray the Romans as ancient Nazis bent on destroying Christianity. I guess thats what sold back then

Agricola

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: aerdensrw <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 5:13 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Cincinnatus Website

Agricola--I visited the guy's webpage. Interesting page on
Cincinnatus. Too bad he has such an uninformed opinion of the
Romannation. He seems to know very little at all about the Republic
and seems to think interms only of the more decadent eras of the
Empire.

I'd have had more respect for him if he'd used a better source than a
fairy-tale - like story by Sen. Byrd. The story in and of itself was
full of holes. Still, I do agree that Cincinnatus was an admirable
man, so at least this guy had that right. (g)

---
Renata Corva

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] This day in Roman History
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:05:16 -0600

Look out, Optimates

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:16 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] This day in Roman History

Salve,

This was the day in 49 BCE, Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon and
began his successful march on Rome.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:28:29 -0600

Terry Nix's stuff kicks ass

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and
confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using
the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the
original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass

> My friend forgive me for not getting back to you
> sooner ,but with the wife giving birth very soon I
> just don't get many ops. to join in on the site.
> First I must start by ask what price range are you
> looking to stay in?
>
> If you don't care about paying a little more than, the
> best that I've seen is by Terry Nix, whom lives in
> Texas "and yes I'm trying to get him to join NR" and
> the armor is just WOW!! Here is the site
> http://www.niximperial.com
>
> However if you want the cheaps than try another good
> guy in Texas that only sales on ebay It's cheap but it
> does still look good. "just not Terry good" what you
> want to do is just type in roman armor and this should
> do it.If it doesn't work just let me know. See you can
> buy from places like by the sword or swords and stuff
> but the prices may be higher for the same as the ones
> on ebay.I'm buying a helm from him right now so I'll
> let you know how good it looks,but I'll give you some
> others I've found on the net.
>
> And if anyone want to know where to find something I'm
> pretty.......sorry just wanted to say I'm
> pretty...Just joking !!but really if you want it I'm
> good at finding it.
> Gaius here's the others...
> "http://members.aol.com/gijchar/main.htm" he make some
> really nice things
> Joe Piela The Lonely Mountain Forge 153 7th Street
> Blakely, PA 18447 (570) 489-5163</P>
> "http://www.lawrensnest.com
>
> "http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Shadowlands/9344/armourlinks.
>
> Try some of these and get back to me.
> G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Movies of Rome
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:54:50 -0600

Ave Gaius Basilicatus,
You can purchase the movie from Belle & Blade for $29.98
in VHS. Their website address is:

http://www.belleandblade.com

They have a large selection of what they call "Sword, Sandal
and Turban Films.

Vale,

Sextus Cornelius Cotta

--
Propraetor--America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Factio Praesina

iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
YahooMsgr: iguard2

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Astur for Praetor
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:10:33 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I am very pleased to make the determination to place my vote for Praetor
in the box marked Astur. You may ask why I would do so (if interested)
and my reply would be something like this:

1. I have been associated with Salix Astur for some time now, and I
have found him to be an even-tempered individual, always polite, and
always the holder of great ideas. I tend to be short-tempered when I am
insulted, but Astur has the even temper of someone who has a lot of
control, and who is really interested in Nova Roma, and in the Citizens
thereof. However,-------- there are others of even temperment as well
in this race, so perhaps we should move on;

2. Astur has been very busy in both Nova Roma involvement, and in the
Academia Thule. I have been privaledged to work closely with Astur in
the Academia and he is consistantly a good listener, and one who very
often is able to "piggy-back" his ideas, onto your ideas, and make a
good thing even better. He has served in several basic areas, learning
Nova Roma from the ground up, and his ideas and suggestions are much
sought after by some of our senior Magistrates. However, there are
others who have experience in managing affairs in Nova Roma as well, and
so perhaps -------------we should move along again;

3. I guess the dividing line here for me that Astur is new blood in the
race for the senior positions of Nova Roma, and as such has some
excellent new ideas. He has stated that he wants to follow through and
complete what past Praetors have promised to work on. The difference
with Astur is that he will do what he says that he will do. He has done
so in the past, and he will continue to do so, if you give him the
chance to make it so. While it is true, that others may have a longer
period of experience, however, it has been said in Naval Service that 1
year's experience twenty times does not equal twenty years of
experience. Citizen Astur has experience with the best, Senior Consul
Quintillianus, and has worked closely with him in the planning, and
creation of the Academia Thule, no mean task, and he has been an often
heard from poster on the Main List, interested in all aspects of Nova
Roma, cultural as well as political;

4. Another thing that I like about Astur is that he is always
available. There have been no periods when he has been out of touch
with the Magistrates with whom he works for weeks on end. Also, he will
not attempt to change the rate of his efforts once having aquired the
Magistry for which he is standing. He will be pleased to continue with
the efforts of the Praetorship, dealing with the problems as they arise,
as well as those that he has pledged to complete. How do I know this?
Has he told me so ---- no, ---- he has followed this pattern since I
have known him, and I am sure that he will continue to do so. He won't
give up half way home, and while no one can determine whether or not
they will be ill, if he says that he is ill, you may be sure that it is
an illness that is truly debilitating and not just a headache.

5. In closing, I am pleased to say that I am able to trust my friends,
as they trust me. At first, when I did not know Astur, I was
recommended to him and he to me by a very good personal friend. You
see, when I don't know someone, I must rely on my friends who do. In
Astur's case, I don't know anyone whom I trust who has not recommended
him highly, and I now in my turn am pleased to recommend to you my
Citizens Friends; Mr, Salix Astur for the Magistry of Praetor for Nova
Roma.

However, my friends, the decision must of course be yours to make the
final determination. I would have it no other way, as you have done
very well in the past, and I have confidence that you will do so in the
future; and so I leave it to you to make that decision. I would just
like to add that whatever your decision about what block to check when
you vote, please take the time to do just that -- VOTE!! Each and every
one of your votes are most important. Not too long ago someone wrote
that they were "just a citizen" and their ideas about some aspect of
what we do here was not important. My firends, you are the most
important people in Nova Roma. You decide who of those people will
represent you in the coming year, and by your vote you will also
determine the majority of those whom you will place in the Senate by
your votes. I apeal to you, the Citizens of Nova Roma, please take the
time to make Your decision and your vote count, and register your
selection for the Praetors for the coming year.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] A question on voting dates
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:31:56 +0100

Salve Octavius,

>I think that the Consuls wanted to avoid any further delay in filling
>the vital office of Praetor, and therefore scheduled the election
>as soon as possible.

Thank you for your response. I also received 2 excellent responses from the
Religio list as well. Lucius Equitius' included a link to the LEX CORNELIA
OCTAVIA DE RATIONE COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM which entirely answered my
question. And I am very glad that I asked because in searching for
information, I really 'missed' the below Lex.

And a public thank you to 3 of our ex-Tribunes, Marcus Arminius Maior,
Gnaeus Salix Astur, and Claudius Salix Davianus who have really been going
out of their way to help me 'learn the ropes' of being a Tribuna Plebis. My
life in Nova Roma would certainly be emptier without them :-)

Vale
Diana Moravia Aventina

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribuna Plebis
Sacerdos Veneris
http://www.gensmoravia.org
*******************************

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:48:04 -0800 (PST)

Right see I'm good!
Brutis
Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@kc.rr.com> wrote:Terry Nix's stuff kicks ass

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and
confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using
the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the
original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass

> My friend forgive me for not getting back to you
> sooner ,but with the wife giving birth very soon I
> just don't get many ops. to join in on the site.
> First I must start by ask what price range are you
> looking to stay in?
>
> If you don't care about paying a little more than, the
> best that I've seen is by Terry Nix, whom lives in
> Texas "and yes I'm trying to get him to join NR" and
> the armor is just WOW!! Here is the site
> http://www.niximperial.com
>
> However if you want the cheaps than try another good
> guy in Texas that only sales on ebay It's cheap but it
> does still look good. "just not Terry good" what you
> want to do is just type in roman armor and this should
> do it.If it doesn't work just let me know. See you can
> buy from places like by the sword or swords and stuff
> but the prices may be higher for the same as the ones
> on ebay.I'm buying a helm from him right now so I'll
> let you know how good it looks,but I'll give you some
> others I've found on the net.
>
> And if anyone want to know where to find something I'm
> pretty.......sorry just wanted to say I'm
> pretty...Just joking !!but really if you want it I'm
> good at finding it.
> Gaius here's the others...
> "http://members.aol.com/gijchar/main.htm" he make some
> really nice things
> Joe Piela The Lonely Mountain Forge 153 7th Street
> Blakely, PA 18447 (570) 489-5163</P>
> "http://www.lawrensnest.com
>
> "http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Shadowlands/9344/armourlinks.
>
> Try some of these and get back to me.
> G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:48:51 -0800 (PST)

And tell me if your going to buy from him.I'm going to try later.
Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@kc.rr.com> wrote:Terry Nix's stuff kicks ass

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and
confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using
the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the
original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass

> My friend forgive me for not getting back to you
> sooner ,but with the wife giving birth very soon I
> just don't get many ops. to join in on the site.
> First I must start by ask what price range are you
> looking to stay in?
>
> If you don't care about paying a little more than, the
> best that I've seen is by Terry Nix, whom lives in
> Texas "and yes I'm trying to get him to join NR" and
> the armor is just WOW!! Here is the site
> http://www.niximperial.com
>
> However if you want the cheaps than try another good
> guy in Texas that only sales on ebay It's cheap but it
> does still look good. "just not Terry good" what you
> want to do is just type in roman armor and this should
> do it.If it doesn't work just let me know. See you can
> buy from places like by the sword or swords and stuff
> but the prices may be higher for the same as the ones
> on ebay.I'm buying a helm from him right now so I'll
> let you know how good it looks,but I'll give you some
> others I've found on the net.
>
> And if anyone want to know where to find something I'm
> pretty.......sorry just wanted to say I'm
> pretty...Just joking !!but really if you want it I'm
> good at finding it.
> Gaius here's the others...
> "http://members.aol.com/gijchar/main.htm" he make some
> really nice things
> Joe Piela The Lonely Mountain Forge 153 7th Street
> Blakely, PA 18447 (570) 489-5163</P>
> "http://www.lawrensnest.com
>
> "http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Shadowlands/9344/armourlinks.
>
> Try some of these and get back to me.
> G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] G Modius Athanasius - Re-Declaration of Candidacy for Tribunus Plebis
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:01:53 EST

Citizens of Nova Roma:

I humbly present myself to you and declare my candidacy for the office of
Tribunus Plebis in the year 2756 A.U.C.

I currently serve the Republic as a Procurator (Senior Legate) in the
province of Lacus Magni, and Flamen Pomonalis. Nova Roma means a great deal
to me, and it is my desire to see the Republic continue to grow and prosper.
I wish to dedicate myself to the service of Nova Roma, as I firmly believe in
the principles in which it was founded.

I would like to provide some information about myself. I am 32 years old,
and work in the advertising/publishing industry. I have been a member of
Nova Roma since May, and have been very active since I chose to become a
citizen in the Republic. I am not new to volunteer work, and understand the
work and diligence required for success in any endeavor.

My platform is as follows:

I. To cooperate with other magistrates to promote the best interests of Nova
Roma.
II. To encourage the active participation of all citizens within Nova Roma.
III. To facilitate communication between the Senate and the People.
IV. To advocate for an increased local presence of Nova Roma within
Macronations.

I give my pledge to serve Nova Roma to the best of my abilities, and to honor
my term of office. I also pledge to facilitate a spirit of tolerance between
the Pagan and non-Pagan believers within our Republic. It is through
tolerance and mutual
understanding, and dialogue that we can all stand together united as New
Romans.

In Fellowship:

Gaius Modius Athanasius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Ancient Books
From:	"germanicusgalba <germanicusgalba@yahoo.com>" <germanicusgalba@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:58:52 -0000

Salvete omnes

This guy made a great work. Nice design, great variety and good
download speed. Congratulation and keep up the good work. It
definitely deserve a look.

http://www.ancientworld.rdsor.ro

May the gods please you with long and happy lifes.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Ancient Books
From:	dio cassius <germanicusgalba@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 04:16:23 -0800 (PST)

Salvete omnes

This guy made a good work. Nice design, great variety and fast download speed. Congratulation and keep up the good work. It definitely deserves a look.

http://www.ancientworld.rdsor.ro

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Tribunis Plebis run off's -- not yet!
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:33:03 +0100

Salvete,

Just a reminder to everyone that the contio & voting dates for the run-off
elections for the 2 open positions of Tribunis Plebis have not been
announced yet :-) . The dates will be announced within a few days
(promise!).

The elections that begin in 3.5 hours are for the 2 open Praetor spots. All
3 of our candidates are excellent choices, so don't forget to vote!! These
positions are extremely important to Nova Roma!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribuna Plebis
Sacerdos Veneris
http://www.gensmoravia.org
*******************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Oath for Apparitoria
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:51:40 -0500

This has been rather delayed due to my current - but about to disappear
- problems with getting a reliable Net connection. Hopefully, that
will be resolved in another day or so.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I, Caius Minucius Scaevola, do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor
of Nova Roma and to act always in the best interests of Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus while I hold this office, except when such action would be
illegal or unconstitutional.

I, Caius Minucius Scaevola, further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Accensus Ordinarius to the best of my
abilities while following the Roman virtues and ideals.

I, Caius Minucius Scaevola, swear to give faithful service to my
magistrate and not to divulge any information discussed in confidence.
I understand that I serve solely at the discretion of my magistrate.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor do I
accept the position of Accensus Ordinarius with all the privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Finis coronat opus.
The ending crowns the work.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: appointments in the Cohors Consulis CFQ
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:19:55 -0500

On Thu, Jan 02, 2003 at 04:01:51PM -0800, L. Cornelius Sulla wrote:
>
> Sulla Response: Humorous or not it is a telling remark. I remember
> last year that Propraetor Caeso Fabius had to fire at least two
> scribes for not doing their duty. How long did it take him to
> discover this? If those citizens still get century points for
> payment, what service did they render to deserve any payment. How
> long will it take for Consul Caeso Fabius to realize that members of
> his "consilium" are not doing their jobs. Now, since this is a
> "consilium" and not a government, should these individuals be
> awarded with century points? And, I must dispute your final
> sentence, my staff was not an informal club, it was a staff. This
> "consilium" is more like an army of clients.

<coldly> L. Cornelius Sulla, I would suggest that you watch your typing
fingers a bit more carefully; on this occasion, they seem to have run
away from your sense of propriety - I'm going to remain just polite
enough to assume that you have one - and well beyond any semblance of
sense. Calling someone a *client,* even in simile, is something that I,
at least, see as strongly insulting. Seeing it applied to myself and
other Accensi - without any cause other than, perhaps, an episode of
momentary delirium on your part - was something that I found uncalled
for in addition to being completely undeserved.

I will not ask for, nor do I expect to receive, an apology - something
that would be tendered by an ordinarily polite person in common
conversation at this point; my experience of your posts here does not
warrant such an expectation. I will, however, note that you have managed
to aim your senseless insult at a group of people who have done you no
harm, and who - up until now - may not have had a _specific_ cause to
hold you in contempt.

Let me be the first to congratulate you on your latest achievement.

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Libertas inaestimabilis res est.
Liberty is a thing beyond all price.
-- Corpus Iuris Civilis: Digesta

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Century Points (A Reply to Postumius)
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:41:27 -0500

On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 10:08:10PM -0500, qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/3/03 6:31:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, postumius@gmx.net
> writes:
> > I fully intend to perform my duties as an Accensus to this Consul, a scribe
> > to the Curator Araneum, and as
> > Retiarius for my Provincia (for which office, I might add, I recieve _no_
> > century points). And if this Senator would like to see my
> > century points removed for my services as Scribe and Accensus, I would be
> > happy to write a check for my points to the Winds and the
> > Waters. I neither need them (as I cannot vote at the moment, and when I
> > may, this will be a former office, which will then entail no
> > points, thereby not helping the weight of my vote in the least), nor
> > particularly care for them at the moment. What will I do with
> > them when I can use them? I won't have them!
>
> Good, you are a shining example to the work ethic of Nova Roman citizens.
> Hard work with no reward. Now if the rest of your tentmates will do the
> same, I'd have no objection to the Byzantine labyrinth Fabius created.

Ah, an attempt at sarcasm. It would be interesting if it was witty (as you
have managed on rare occasion), Q. Fabius Maximus; this time, it's simply
boring as well as boorish. I suggest reading up on your Wilde, or perhaps
Johnson, with a bit of Bierce thrown in for variety. As well, - how should
I put this gently enough? - picking on those much less experienced than
yourself is generally considered as a sign of weakness. A number of other,
far less complimentary terms come to mind, but I'll let you fill them in
yourself.

If work without reward is such a laudable work ethic, why do we not see you
following it? Or is this a clear admission on your part that Sp. Postumius
Tubertus is _that_ much of a better person than you (a contention I'm
willing to entertain, since you bring it up)?

As to a "Byzantine labyrinth"... <chuckle> Thank you for clarifying that
you can't understand the most basic of structures, a simple hierarchy of
responsibilities. It explains quite a lot. Perhaps you could consult one of
our Junior Accensi for a simplified view; they might even explain things to
you with no expectation of reward, amazing people that they are.

Clearly, you and Sulla are determined to tear down anyone who does not
belong to your faction and stands a chance of achieving anything useful;
this might - oh horrors! - dim whatever you have achieved in the past.
This would be laughably appropriate if you were trying to emulate... oh,
several small-minded politicians come to mind, but I'll skip macronational
commentary and invidious comparison - but it's out of place here, where it
can be easily seen for precisely what it is. I suggest you give it up; if
you persist in your attempts to stifle Nova Roma's growth due to jealousy,
I warn you that the repercussions will be far beyond your expectations.

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Claris maiorum exemplis.
After the forefathers' brilliant example.
-- Part of the inscription on the House of Nobility in Stockholm

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A question on voting dates
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:52:25 -0800

Avete Omnes,

When I was Consul I always consulted our Augur Lucius Equtius Cincinnatus regarding any summons I was about to do. I felt it absolutely important to put the Religio first and paramount.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: ReligioRomana@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 4:29 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] A question on voting dates

Salvete,

I have a question regarding the voting dates. It is halfway between a
religio question and a political one, so the Religio list is in cc. In light
of my recent ML posts :-p, for the record, I am not at all *criticizing* the
dates, I just have a practical question because I am in the process of
organizing the run-off election to fill the 2 Tribune seats.

The reason why I am asking is because being very concerned that our Gods
look on our elections favourably, I looked at the calendar for a long time
picking out dates for the next Tribune run-off election. I was under the
impression that the *entire* voting had to take place during dies comitialis
(Citizens may vote on political or criminal matters). And now I see that
this run-off election begins on a nefaustus publicus (Public religious
festivals are celebrated. No legal action or public voting may occur) and
has 2 more in between. And I think it was the same for the last run-off's in
December.

So it is a matter of even if the voting begins or is held during nefastus
publicus, it is fine as long as the auspices are good?

Again, I do not mean any insult to anyone, I am just trying to learn!

Valete!
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunis Plebis
Sacerdos Venus
http://www.gensmoravia.org

http://www.be.paganfederation.org

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:13:19 -0600

oh yeah

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: G.Porticus Brutis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass

And tell me if your going to buy from him.I'm going to try later.
Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@kc.rr.com> wrote:Terry Nix's stuff kicks ass

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and
confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using
the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the
original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass

> My friend forgive me for not getting back to you
> sooner ,but with the wife giving birth very soon I
> just don't get many ops. to join in on the site.
> First I must start by ask what price range are you
> looking to stay in?
>
> If you don't care about paying a little more than, the
> best that I've seen is by Terry Nix, whom lives in
> Texas "and yes I'm trying to get him to join NR" and
> the armor is just WOW!! Here is the site
> http://www.niximperial.com
>
> However if you want the cheaps than try another good
> guy in Texas that only sales on ebay It's cheap but it
> does still look good. "just not Terry good" what you
> want to do is just type in roman armor and this should
> do it.If it doesn't work just let me know. See you can
> buy from places like by the sword or swords and stuff
> but the prices may be higher for the same as the ones
> on ebay.I'm buying a helm from him right now so I'll
> let you know how good it looks,but I'll give you some
> others I've found on the net.
>
> And if anyone want to know where to find something I'm
> pretty.......sorry just wanted to say I'm
> pretty...Just joking !!but really if you want it I'm
> good at finding it.
> Gaius here's the others...
> "http://members.aol.com/gijchar/main.htm" he make some
> really nice things
> Joe Piela The Lonely Mountain Forge 153 7th Street
> Blakely, PA 18447 (570) 489-5163</P>
> "http://www.lawrensnest.com
>
> "http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Shadowlands/9344/armourlinks.
>
> Try some of these and get back to me.
> G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: New websites about Factiones
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:22:20 +0100

Franciscus Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

I'm very sorry for the error, I'm sick ... :-(
Now the website of Factio Veneta is online, please check at
http://aediles.novaroma.org/veneta
Thank you very much for your congratulations, the Cohors Aedile F. Apulus
Caesar promise you all a wonderful year of sports !!!

I announce that we're searching a new Dominus (chief) for the Factio
Praesina and we accept volunteers. Please, send your candidacies to
sacro_barese_impero@libero.it

If you want receive futher informations about the Ludi Circenses please
contact me or Illustrus Gnaeus Salix Galaicus.

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Factio Veneta blue bleu azul azzurro
From:	"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:30:01 -0300

Salvete omnes!.
As soon as I return from my vacations the first days of February, I'll begin to recruit people for our beautiful colour!!. Begin preparing your chariots, horses and drivers. The races begin in April, but we must be ready then.
I am sure this year we'll beat the powerful factio praesina!!!. But in order to do this we must recruit as many people as possible.
I want to hear many people shouting for the Veneta during the games.
Remember that last year I finished second at the Ludi Victoria and again second at the Ludi Maximi with my chariot Crux Australis. So a blue was fighting for the championship of the campions!

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Senator
Tribunus Plebis
Dominus Factionis Veneta
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae
http://argentina.novaroma.org
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Digest No 397
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@starpower.net>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:02:36 -0500

Salvete,
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 25
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:59:48 -0600
From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Movies of Rome

I heard a great movie called "Scipio Africanus" was made in the 1930's in
italy under Mussolini. I'd like to see that.

Lucius Equitius: See "Belle & Blade"
http://www.warshows.com/StoreFront.bok

SCIPIO AFRICANUS (THE DEFEAT OF HANNIBAL)
SKU: HANN2B
(1937) We have carried this title for a long time, but have finally found a
much better digitally enhanced version. It now comes in a nice box. This
film won the Mussolini Cup. Though not the greatest film, the 4 star rating
is for the topic it covers. Not much around on Scipio. 85 min.

PRICE: $29.98

$29.98 DVD
$29.98 VHS

Bonam Fortunam

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] An unlevel playing field.
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:58:52 -0600 (CST)

Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

Today, we begin our third attempt to elect Praetores for this year.
Unless something changes, it is likely to end in failure, just as
the first two attempts did. Our election system, in spite of years
of refinements, is still imperfect.

I would like to draw your attention to the results in the first
attempt at electing this year's Praetores, as published on 24 November:

# Gnaeus Salix Astur - 37 Centuries
# 1 3 4 8 10 13 15 16 19 21 22 23 24 27 31 33 34 36 39 42 43 44 49
# 52 57 59 61 63 64 66 67 68 71 73 80 82 83

# Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus - 31 Centuries
# 2* 5 6 7 8 9 11 12 13* 14* 16 19 20* 24 26 32 36 37* 41* 50 51 52
# 55 56 63 66 73 76* 77 78 79*

# Lucius Sicinius Drusus - 27 Centuries
# 2 3 4 11 17* 18 21 23 26 30 35 43 44 51 53 54 58 62 65 67 76 75*
# 77 78 80 81 83

# Marcus Arminius Maior - 26 Centuries
# 1 5 7* 12 14* 17 18 20* 22 25 37* 39 40 41* 42 45 53 55 59*
# 60 62 69 71 75* 79* 81

The centuries marked with asterisks were originally tied, but were
awarded to one or another of the candidates whose totals were tied
for the highest count within that century. As you can see by counting
the asterisks, this happened seventeen times. Note also that
Gnaeus Salix Astur, by far the leading candidate, has no
asterisks: he was the only candidate to not benefit from the
tie resolution process.

Why? Because the process is not equitable. Some candidates are
automatically discriminated against because of a status that has
nothing to do with their candidacy or qualifications for office.

The Lex Vedia de Ratione Centuriatorum Comitiorum, and its
subsequent derivations, state:

] V.A.III: Should a tie occur within a given century, the winner shall be
] the candidate who is a paterfamilias or materfamilias, or if such shall
] not decide the issue, the winner shall be decided by lot.

In this recent election, in every century where Gnaeus Salix Astur and
another candidate were tied, with the same number of votes, Astur lost.
As the only non-paterfamilias involved, he was placed at a significant
disadvantage through no fault of his own - because the law discriminates
against some candidates.

Gnaeus Salix Astur obtained 37 votes. Only 38 were needed for
victory. 17 votes were distributed in the tie-breaking round... in
a fair and just system, he would have received about a quarter of those.
If the system was not rigged against him, he would have won.

This is not right. The candidate preferred by a majority of
centuries lost because the playing field was not level.

Some will say that a paterfamilas holds a position of responsibility
and there should therefore be given this advantage. To that, I say,
what of those patresfamilias of one-person gentes? What of those who
completely ignore their gensmates? Are they more worthy than an
active and dedicated citizen who chose to join an existing gens?

Of the four candidates in the initial run for Praetor, two were
Tribunes, one was a past Consul, one was a Propraetor. All were
very qualified. The voters should have been allowed to make their
own decisions as to whose past accomplishments qualified them for
that office - yet the will of the voters was nullified on a
technicality.

Citizens, today I ask you to vote for Gnaeus Salix Astur, even if
he is not your first choice. It is the only way to break this
stalemate; and in a fair system, he would have won already. We will
not be able to elect both Praetores right away - a fourth election
will be necessary.

I ask you to vote for Gnaeus Salix Astur today, and to wait for
the next round to vote for your preferred candidate. This is the
only way we will be able to break the deadlock and fill these
offices - and the only way we can compensate for the inherent
bias in the system.

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] An unlevel playing field.
From:	"Laureatus Armoricus" <laureatusarmoricus@tiscali.co.uk>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:29:09 -0000

Salvete,

Marcus Octavius : Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

Today, we begin our third attempt to elect Praetores for this year.
Unless something changes, it is likely to end in failure, just as
the first two attempts did. Our election system, in spite of years
of refinements, is still imperfect.

[Laureatus Armoricus] Please do not throw stones at me but could we drag
Roma in the 21st century and adopt a modern voting system ?
I know how much tradition is held in esteem among us but the centuriate
system has always seemed unfair to my young eyes ever since I studied it at
school. Can our officials express an opinion on a "one man, one vote" system
truer to our ideas of modern democracies and explain to me if there is
anything else but historical re-enactment and tradition to justify our
current system : The main advantage in breaking with tradition, in my
opinion, would be to always fill vacant positions without resorting to
countless voting rounds.

Thanking you all in advance for you learned responses,

Optime valete

Corn. Moravius Laureatus

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] An unlevel playing field.
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:45:10 -0600 (CST)

Salve Corneli Moravi,

> Can our officials express an opinion on a "one man, one vote" system
> truer to our ideas of modern democracies and explain to me if there is
> anything else but historical re-enactment and tradition to justify our
> current system :

We do it because of tradition. It's a tradition worth keeping. It gives
our voting a much more Roman feel, and it is educational to everyone
participating in it. The candidates, Curatores, Rogatores, and voters
all learn much about how the Century and Tribe systems worked in antiquity.

Additionally, the classification of citizens in centuries and tribes
serves as an incentive to participate (more participation gains a better
century placement) and makes fraud more difficult - it is pointless to
create dozens of fake citizenships when all you'd be able to do with
these is to dominate a single century of voters.

> The main advantage in breaking with tradition, in my
> opinion, would be to always fill vacant positions without resorting to
> countless voting rounds.

Actually, it's the majority requirement, not the century system, that's
caused our current problem. A candidate needs 50% +1 of the centuries
to win, and that proves difficult when the centuries are sparsely
populated (some centuries don't vote their full potential).

It would be even worse if not for the centuries - gaining 50%+1 of the
popular vote, in a three way race, would be extraordinarly difficult.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] An unlevel playing field.
From:	"Laureatus Armoricus" <laureatusarmoricus@tiscali.co.uk>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:54:46 -0000

Salve Censor Octavi Germanice et omnes,

Thank you for your prompt response and the valid points you have expressed.
As you mentioned in an earlier message the system needs fine tuning and
because it is still difficult to work out doesn't mean we should throw it
away.
I am glad to have asked the question and received an appropriate answer.

Optime Valete

Moravius Laureatus
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:haase@konoko.net]
Sent: 11 January 2003 18:45
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] An unlevel playing field.

Salve Corneli Moravi,

> Can our officials express an opinion on a "one man, one vote" system
> truer to our ideas of modern democracies and explain to me if there is
> anything else but historical re-enactment and tradition to justify our
> current system :

We do it because of tradition. It's a tradition worth keeping. It gives
our voting a much more Roman feel, and it is educational to everyone
participating in it. The candidates, Curatores, Rogatores, and voters
all learn much about how the Century and Tribe systems worked in
antiquity.

Additionally, the classification of citizens in centuries and tribes
serves as an incentive to participate (more participation gains a better
century placement) and makes fraud more difficult - it is pointless to
create dozens of fake citizenships when all you'd be able to do with
these is to dominate a single century of voters.

> The main advantage in breaking with tradition, in my
> opinion, would be to always fill vacant positions without resorting to
> countless voting rounds.

Actually, it's the majority requirement, not the century system, that's
caused our current problem. A candidate needs 50% +1 of the centuries
to win, and that proves difficult when the centuries are sparsely
populated (some centuries don't vote their full potential).

It would be even worse if not for the centuries - gaining 50%+1 of the
popular vote, in a three way race, would be extraordinarly difficult.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Only Important to Me
From:	"Ivlia A.A. Musa <aneaapollonia@aol.com>" <aneaapollonia@aol.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:04:08 -0000

Salvete,
I realize that there are many more pressing matters to post on this
list but this has been bothering me a bit so I thought I might try
asking for help here, see if I can get it done.

I would like a picture by my name on the NR site, is this a special
privilege? Do I have to bribe someone with homemade baklava to get
this accomplished? If someone can help me with this trivial little
thing, my whole life might be a little less stressful. :o)

In good humor...
Valete,
I.A.A.Musa

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Only Important to Me
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:07:50 -0600 (CST)

Salve Iulia Aenea,

> I would like a picture by my name on the NR site, is this a special
> privilege? Do I have to bribe someone with homemade baklava to get
> this accomplished?

Send the picture to Titus Octavius Pius (from@darkeye.net), the new
Curator. Send the baklava to me.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] An unlevel playing field.
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:15:34 +0100

Salvete Quirites et Salve Honorable Moravius Laureatus!

Sadly enough I am very busy in with my consular tasks, among them
preparing a Senate meeting.

I have also been observing the disadvantages of our electoral system
in Comitia Centuriata, while I do want to keep,this very Roman
system, I also want it to function.

Now I just want to assure You that I and my Cohors are looking into
the electoral system of the Comitia Centuriata and that I will
present a proposal for a change of the law within about one and a
half month.

>Salve Censor Octavi Germanice et omnes,
>
>Thank you for your prompt response and the valid points you have expressed.
>As you mentioned in an earlier message the system needs fine tuning and
>because it is still difficult to work out doesn't mean we should throw it
>away.
>I am glad to have asked the question and received an appropriate answer.
>
>Optime Valete
>
>Moravius Laureatus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:haase@konoko.net]
> Sent: 11 January 2003 18:45
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] An unlevel playing field.
>
>
> Salve Corneli Moravi,
>
> > Can our officials express an opinion on a "one man, one vote" system
> > truer to our ideas of modern democracies and explain to me if there is
> > anything else but historical re-enactment and tradition to justify our
> > current system :
>
> We do it because of tradition. It's a tradition worth keeping. It gives
> our voting a much more Roman feel, and it is educational to everyone
> participating in it. The candidates, Curatores, Rogatores, and voters
> all learn much about how the Century and Tribe systems worked in
>antiquity.
>
> Additionally, the classification of citizens in centuries and tribes
> serves as an incentive to participate (more participation gains a better
> century placement) and makes fraud more difficult - it is pointless to
> create dozens of fake citizenships when all you'd be able to do with
> these is to dominate a single century of voters.
>
> > The main advantage in breaking with tradition, in my
> > opinion, would be to always fill vacant positions without resorting to
> > countless voting rounds.
>
> Actually, it's the majority requirement, not the century system, that's
> caused our current problem. A candidate needs 50% +1 of the centuries
> to win, and that proves difficult when the centuries are sparsely
> populated (some centuries don't vote their full potential).
>
> It would be even worse if not for the centuries - gaining 50%+1 of the
> popular vote, in a three way race, would be extraordinarly difficult.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Help_password?=
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?Q?sa-mann@libero.it?=" <sa-mann@libero.it>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:49:51 +0100

> I realized I choose a password and an ID.
Completely forgot them.
What can I do?

By the way, what do I need them for?

Gallus Solaris Alexander

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The Praetoral Elections: Some Comments on the Candidates
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:12:12 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

After reviewing the pleas of late for some representation by the
voters in this election, I have decided to make a few comments.

Gnaeus Salix Astur:

I have read your request to the populace to be elected. Might I
suggest that if you wish to be elected, answering the mails of your
constituents,whether patrician or plebian, political 'friend' or 'foe'
as you perceive them, should be on your priority list, nonne?
"Selective" representation is not responsible political behaviour, IMHO.

I penned you on December 17 expressing some concerns with the
Praetoral election, and with some issues I thought you would address
as Tribunus Plebis. I can understand the priorities of the Saturnalia
Season, and that you were away for a few days. It is now January 11,
and I am not holding my breath for a response. I didn't mistype the
addie. I addressed both you and Arminius. He had the courtesy,
caring and responsiblity to answer my queries.

The more Marcus Octavius cries huge rivers of stories about how the
electorial system is 'cheating' us out of your services (this has
happened to others besides you), the more I am forced to question if
there is an alliance between the two of you If so, I *hope* this
isn't beyond colleagial agreement to work for what is in Nova Roma's
best interests.

Decius Iunius Palladius: His response in message 4983 to the concerns
I recapped in message 6842 leaves my faith waning also. It is 'ok' to
be angry with me.Don't just see 'me'...examine the situation I am
speaking of...justice vs injustice. Indeed there are others better
than I am, and I am the first to admit it. In message 4983 you
demonstrate to me that you:

a)obviously were not terribly familiar with the list guidelines.
There were some admendments this year. I posted these to forum and to
the Senate and they were not vetoed. Rather the language amendments
were applauded.
b) are willing to condemn the actions of others, and condone
miscarriages of justice without knowing all of the facts. Indeed you
took it upon yourself to pronounce formula, become Iudex and Jury, in
the analysis of situations without an 'objective', but rather I feel,
an "emotional" view of all the events. Not a apt demonstration of your
knowledge of Roman Law, or its proper execution.
c) On a personal note, how the heck am I supposed to 'moderate'
disputes when I am not even working, but rather off, enjoying my
birthday (or trying to)? On a more formal note, I did not possess any
'veto' over the actions of the Senior Consul when I came back to face
the music and mess.

I like you very much in many ways, and I respect you as a Founder of
Nova Roma. But I do not think you are a candidate of choice for
Praetor either.

Marcus Arminius Maior:

Marcus Arminius answers his mail, even when it is near the end of his
term, and thus demonstrating genuine concerns about impartial Roman
justice.

Marcus Arminius openly admits that he is not the wizard of Roman Law,
but what he doesn't know he is willing to find out.

There was a discussion on Nova Roma Laws list within the past few
days, which ensued after a query came from a governor regarding an
aspect of lawful practice. The only one of these candidates who gave
this query the 'time O day' was Marcus Arminius Maior.

I guess I shall be voting for Marcus Arminius Maior.

Pompeia

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Only Important to Me
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:45:37 -0800 (PST)

Hey, could O have some too? I could bestow titles on you...that really only mean things in Lacus Magni but, just think how famous you would here!
Marcus Bianchius Antonius

Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> wrote:Salve Iulia Aenea,

> I would like a picture by my name on the NR site, is this a special
> privilege? Do I have to bribe someone with homemade baklava to get
> this accomplished?

Send the picture to Titus Octavius Pius (from@darkeye.net), the new
Curator. Send the baklava to me.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: An unlevel playing field.
From:	"deciusiunius <bcatfd@together.net>" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:00:15 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<haase@c...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

Salve Censor Octavi,

> Today, we begin our third attempt to elect Praetores for this year.
> Unless something changes, it is likely to end in failure, just as
> the first two attempts did. Our election system, in spite of years
> of refinements, is still imperfect.

No system is perfect, censor. This one works well as it is. The
problem is not the system, frankly as was confirmed in the second
runoff, it is voter apathy. Not enough people in enough centuries
voted.
On a related topic, there were several laws voted on at the end of
the year that won a majority of votes cast, but some tribes never
voted at all, so the required number of tribes was not reached.
No "paterfamilias vote" interfered with the passage of those laws but
rather a lack of voter participation.

> Why? Because the process is not equitable. Some candidates are
> automatically discriminated against because of a status that has
> nothing to do with their candidacy or qualifications for office.

> The Lex Vedia de Ratione Centuriatorum Comitiorum, and its
> subsequent derivations, state:
>
> This is not right. The candidate preferred by a majority of
> centuries lost because the playing field was not level.

There are many aspects of the Roman system that some could say are
not "equitable." The century voting system, weighted classes within
the centuries, etc. I think the paterfamilias tie vote is a Roman
solution in keeping with the general framework of the system.
I believe the simplest way to fix the problem is to go back to having
a plurality decide the election. The two top candidates with the most
votes are elected. I was opposed to the change when we stopped
deciding elections by a plurality and would welcome a move back to
that.

> Of the four candidates in the initial run for Praetor, two were
> Tribunes, one was a past Consul, one was a Propraetor. All were
> very qualified. The voters should have been allowed to make their
> own decisions as to whose past accomplishments qualified them for
> that office - yet the will of the voters was nullified on a
> technicality.

A candidate can win now by winning the majority of centuries but not
a majority of voters, if most of his or her voters were in the 1st
class and 2nd classes and his opponent's more numerous voters were in
the 4th and 5th classes. One could argue that the will of the voters
was nullified there. There are peculiarities to the system from a
modern's perspective, but that is the Roman system.

> Citizens, today I ask you to vote for Gnaeus Salix Astur, even if
> he is not your first choice. It is the only way to break this
> stalemate; and in a fair system, he would have won already. We will
> not be able to elect both Praetores right away - a fourth election
> will be necessary.

Marce Octavi, that is not a compelling reason to vote for someone. I
would suggest voters vote for their first choice, whether it is
Salix, Arminius or myself. Don't vote for a lesser choice for
political expedience. Instead, encourage other voters to vote. If
enough people participate, the system will work.

If we go back to a plurality decision for elections, this problem
would not arise again.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: The Praetoral Elections: Some Comments on the Candidates
From:	"deciusiunius <bcatfd@together.net>" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:25:57 -0000

Salve P. Corneli,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_cornelia
<scriba_forum@h...>" <scriba_forum@h...> wrote:
> Decius Iunius Palladius: .. In message 4983 you demonstrate to me
>that you:

You had me a bit confused with message 4983, kept looking all over
for it. It was message 4083. :)

> b) are willing to condemn the actions of others, and condone
> miscarriages of justice without knowing all of the facts. Indeed
>you took it upon yourself to pronounce formula, become Iudex and
>Jury, in the analysis of situations without an 'objective', but
>rather I feel, an "emotional" view of all the events. Not a apt
>demonstration of your knowledge of Roman Law, or its proper
>execution.

That may be how you feel. However, My statement was not a legal
statement or a legal opinion, nor was it meant to be. It was a
general commentary in response to the dismay evident among some
citizens after your resignation. My essential point was that the
resignation of one magistrate, no matter how popular, was not a
crisis.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

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