Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Silk Road Historical novels
From:	"biojournalism <biojournalism@hotmail.com>" <biojournalism@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:11:18 -0000

Anyone know what the relationship was with the pagan Khazars of the
2nd and 3rd century and their relationship to the Roman military?
Several novels were published on this subject? Historical references
are to the "Iranic peoples" of Sarmatia, Scythia, etc...in the
region where the Caspian meets the Volga, and the Dacians, a Roman
colony was in Moldova and/or Romania/Bessarabia. Any historical
writings on this time and subject anyone know of?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Silk Road Historical novels
From:	"biojournalism <biojournalism@hotmail.com>" <biojournalism@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:13:37 -0000


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] This day in Roman History
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:32:11 -0000

Salve,

On this day in 69 AD, the Emperor Galba was killed by his Praetorian
guards. So much for "It's good to be the king."

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Edictum Propraetoricium V - ante diem XVII Kal. FEBRVARIAS MMDCCLVI a.u.c.
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:35:06 -0500

Nova Britannia Edictum Propraetoricium V regarding the appointment of
Provincial officers.

I. The following citizen is prorogued in his office of Scriba
Propraetoris:

Tiberius Ambrosius Quintilianus

II. This edictum is effective immediately. Given ante diem XVII Kal.
FEBRVARIAS, in the year of the Consulship of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
and Titus Labienus Fortunatus, MMDCCLVI A.U.C.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Silk Road Historical novels
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 05:06:33 +0000

Could you please tell us who you are?

----Original Message Follows----
From: "biojournalism <biojournalism@hotmail.com>"
<biojournalism@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Silk Road Historical novels
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:11:18 -0000

Anyone know what the relationship was with the pagan Khazars of the
2nd and 3rd century and their relationship to the Roman military?
Several novels were published on this subject? Historical references
are to the "Iranic peoples" of Sarmatia, Scythia, etc...in the
region where the Caspian meets the Volga, and the Dacians, a Roman
colony was in Moldova and/or Romania/Bessarabia. Any historical
writings on this time and subject anyone know of?

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Vote! (Last Reminder)
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 04:25:34 -0800 (PST)

We're down to the home stretch, folks. You have about
4-1/2 hours until the polls close. So if you have not
yet cast your vote for Praetor, please visit the Nova
Roma website and do so! :)

We thank you for your support...

---
Renata Corva
Rogatrix

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Silk Road Historical novels-Khazars, Scythians, etc.
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:06:53 -0500

The Khazars did not have anything to do with the Roman Republic or Empire as they did not enter into the territories of Rome until the late-8th/early-9th centuries C.E. They were a Turco-Mongolian steppe people who occupied a territory that touch the Roman Catholic West, the Byzantine Empire, and the Abbassid Caliphate of Bagdad. Eventually, they had the distinction of being the only Jewish khanate in history until they were overrun by the Pechenegs (or Patzinaks) in the 11th century. The reason they chose Judaism was supposedly due to either political/religious reasons (i.e., so they would not be affiliated with either Rome, Constantinople, or Bagdad) or due to the limited taboos associated with Judaism (which fits a pastoral people very well) as opposed to Christianity or Islam.
The Scythians were an ancient Indo-European people who kicked the ordure our of everyone from Uratu to the Persian Empire to Macedonia between 1200-200 B.C. They were superb horse warriors with women having the right to fight in battle and choose their own mates. They served as a mercenary-police force in democratic Athens during the 5th-4th centuries B.C. and were used as mercenaries by the Thracians during the same period.
During the Roman period, they were supplanted by the Sarmatians; another Indo-European steppe people who fought in the same fashion with lances and bows. The Sarmatians originally fought as mercenaries in the armies of the Macedonians and Seleucids and then under Rome in the late Republic and Empire. They were eventually destroyed during the Hunnic Invasions of the 5th century C.E.
The Scythians and Sarmatians were the only Indo-European horse peoples who invaded civilization. The Huns, Magyars, Khazars, Pechenegs, Seljuks, and Mongols were all asiatic Turco-Mongolians.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Silk Road Historical novels-History Books
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:14:17 -0500

The Osprey books "The Scythians", "Byzantine Armies 888-1118", "Romano-Byzantine Armies", and "Attila and the Nomadic Hordes" give a great deal of information on the Scythians, Pechenegs, and other steppe people during the period from 1200 BCE-1200 CE. Roman authors like Ammianus Marcellanus makes mention of the Sarmatians serving in the Roman army or fighting against the Romans. Apollinaris and Zosimus wrote extensively about the Goth, Huns, and Sarmatians during the closing days of the Western Roman Empire.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Silk Road Historical novels-Khazars, Scythians, etc.
From:	markeedeesade@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:28:25 EST

<PRE>I think a fictional work titled "The Kazar Lexicon" is available which
dramatises the khans method of choosing between christianity, islam, and
judaism. Its a book in 2 parts. Each book is different, but the story is the
same. One book is masculine,. the other feminine. I have never found the
feminine version.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] RE: Fur Bearing Trout <off the Roman topic sorry...>
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:22:20 +0100

Salve Pompeia,

Thank you for sharing that with us. Your grandfather sounds like he was a
wonderful person!

> My grandfather knew so many interesting and diverse people. His
> funeral was like a meeting of the united nations, he knew so many
> people, from all walks of life.

> He saw the good parts of everyone.
Now I am going to start philosphizing a bit.... I agree with your
grandfather. There is something good about *everyone.* Sometimes it is not
so obviously apparent and we have to look a bit, but the goodness is in
there. I have a pretty wide fluffy bunny streak :-)

> As much as I fear I fall short of him sometimes, <snip>
Dear Pompeia, I certainly doubt that you fall short of him or anyone else
for that matter!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA is convened
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:53:45 +0100

Tribunus Plebis Diana Moravia Aventina Comitia Plebis Tributa SPD

Regarding Run-off Elections in the Comitia Plebis Tributa for the 2 vacant
offices of Tribunis Plebis for the year MMDCCLVI

Salvete!

The auspices being propitious, as Tribunus Plebis I hereby officially
convene the Comitia Plebis Tributa to elect the 2 vacant seats of Tribunus
Plebis (Tribune of the Plebs).

The Contio begins today, Thursday January 16 2002 at 18:00 Roman Time (17:00
GMT, 12 noon Eastern US time, 09:00 PST)

Voting shall begin on Tuesday January 21 18:01 Roman Time (17:01 GMT, 12:01
noon EST, 09:01 PST).

Voting shall end on Thursday January 30 at 18:01 Roman Time (17:01 GMT,
12:01 noon Eastern US time, 09:01 PST).

The following positions will be elected by the vote of the Comitia Plebis
Tributa:

TRIBUNUS PLEBIS - 2 seats available, 4 candidates:

Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius
Gaius Modius Athanasius
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Gaius Geminius Germanus

The decaration of each of the candidates can be found at:
http://www.novaroma.org/election/2755

Since this is a run off election continuing those of November, no new
candidates for Tribunus Plebis will be accepted in the ballot.

May the Gods guide the Comitia Plebis Tributa in their choice of our 2 new
Tribunes!

Valete,

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Silk Road, 2nd - 3rd century CE
From:	Jim Lancaster <jlancaster@foxcable.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:09:18 -0800

Ave Ignotus ;o) :

While awaiting your response to the honorable Gaius Galerius Peregrinator's
request for your identity, I thought I'd pipe up with some scraps of
information, as I'm digging through the 10th century of Rome at the moment
(Emperor Philip Arabicus celebrated Rome's milennium in 248 CE, as point of
reference; since Roman counting is convoluted at best, it's thought he was
off by a year or two).

Remember that ca. 200 CE the Han dynasty was overthrown in China, which
apparently disrupted trade on the silk road. The surviving historians of
the period, Dio and Herodian, don't discuss it at all (to my knowledge).
There is nothing in these sources to indicate a huge market of Chinese goods
in the empire, but that doesn't mean there wasn't. Dio is incomplete and
inelegantly abridged and supplemented by two medieval writers, and Herodian
is problematic at best, though complete. Further, what can be reasonably
exhumed from the "Historia Augusta" (dated rather securly at ca. 395 CE) of
the primary source from the reign of Alexander Severus (designated by Ronald
Syme "Ignotus") and the gossipy bits from Marius Maximus likewise don't
touch on far eastern trade.

According to Anthony Birley ("Septimius Severus, the African Emperor," rev.
1988), the Sassanid dynasty which overthrew the Parthian empire was not
intentionally resurrecting the ancient Persian empire, but was a family of
Iranic tribal origins which saw an opportunity and took advantage of it.
"Iran" is a dialect word for "Aryan," whatever one wants to make of that.

>From what I've read, which is hardly comprehensive, it's thought that the
Khazars took a bit of time to re-establish trade; perhaps by the late 3rd
century CE, after Diocletian re-established order in the violently
transformed empire, trade was normalized. But I haven't read anything to
suggest the Roman military came in contact with the Khazars; indeed, the
Sassanids seem to have been a permanent wall between Rome and the far east,
at least in this period.

There is some inscriptional evidence that Goths were serving in the Arabian
legions in Caracalla's Parthian War (216-217), possibly even earlier. The
Gothic migration/invasion was at the forefront of Roman concerns. Though
I've read that some doubts have been cast on the Goth's alleged Scandinavian
origins, I think the current theory still holds that they moved east from
the Jutland area, if not from farther north, through Sarmatia / Scythia and
around the east edge of the Black Sea. The Sarmatians were substantially
less war-like in this period, having been spoiled by commercial success,
though they remained essentially nomadic. They didn't seem any match for
the Goths, which seemed to move about at will through the area. They too
appear to have cut off Rome from direct contact with central Asia.

The province of III Daciae extended north of the Danube through the southern
reaches of the Carpathians, the Transylvania region; I wouldn't be surprised
if there were outposts as far north as Moldavia, though that seems to be
beyond the frontier. If I recall correctly, the Dacias were abandoned in
the 260s? In any case, as far as Dio was concerned, they were all
"Barbarians," and Herodian, though of a lower class than Dio, isn't a
stickler for details. So, in terms of historical sources, the pickings are
slim.

As for modern historical novels, I haven't found much that touches on Rome;
there's a soap-operatic novel about the reign of the third Marcus Aurelius
Antoninus (known erroneously as "Elagabalus") called "Family Matters" that I
haven't read, and I believe something from the early 20th century on the
reign on the second Marcus Aurelius Antoninus ("Caracalla"), but again, the
Suetonian emphasis on outrage seems to eclipse objectivity.

As usual, I could be entirely wrong about everything. Not only is my mind
not what it used to be, I'm suspected it may never have been in the first
place ;o) .

Vale,

Cn. Iulius Strabo

>"biojournalism <biojournalism@hotmail.com>"
Anyone know what the relationship was with the pagan Khazars of the
2nd and 3rd century and their relationship to the Roman military?
Several novels were published on this subject? Historical references
are to the "Iranic peoples" of Sarmatia, Scythia, etc...in the
region where the Caspian meets the Volga, and the Dacians, a Roman
colony was in Moldova and/or Romania/Bessarabia. Any historical
writings on this time and subject anyone know of?<

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Russata!! Russata!!
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:53:07 +0000 (GMT)

Salvete!

A new year has begun, new Ludi will be organised, and
this means new chariot races!!!

Now join the mighty red armada... Factio Russata is
searching for new racers to compete for our faction in
the coming Ludi Circenses!

To join the Factio Russata, send me an email:
c o n s u l r o m a n u s @ y a h o o . c o m

JOIN RUSSATA!! JOIN RUSSATA!!

Valete bene

=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
----------
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
Scriba Propraetoris Galliae
Coryphaeus Sodalitatis Musarum
**HORVM OMNIVM FORTISSIME SVNT BELGAE**

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website Updated
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:55:24 -0500

Salvete,

The Nova Britannia website - www.shinjikun.com - has been updated (and
it's about time some if you might be saying...)

If anyone has any comments, questions, complaints, omissions, etc.
regarding the site, please email me off list at shinjikun@shinjikun.com.

Thanks!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
�
Patria est communis omnium parens.
�Our native land is the common parent of us all.� - Cicero

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Fur Bearing Trout <off the Roman topic sorry...>
From:	"metamorphosis2003 <metamorphosis2003@yahoo.ca>" <metamorphosis2003@yahoo.ca>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:37:33 -0000

---Oh, no....Pompeia has lots of faults, but I thank you for thinking
the best of me :)

Po

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...>
wrote:
> Salve Pompeia,
>
> Thank you for sharing that with us. Your grandfather sounds like he
was a
> wonderful person!
>
> > My grandfather knew so many interesting and diverse people. His
> > funeral was like a meeting of the united nations, he knew so many
> > people, from all walks of life.
>
> > He saw the good parts of everyone.
> Now I am going to start philosphizing a bit.... I agree with your
> grandfather. There is something good about *everyone.* Sometimes it
is not
> so obviously apparent and we have to look a bit, but the goodness is in
> there. I have a pretty wide fluffy bunny streak :-)
>
> > As much as I fear I fall short of him sometimes, <snip>
> Dear Pompeia, I certainly doubt that you fall short of him or anyone
else
> for that matter!
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia Aventina

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:01:45 EST

Salvete Omnes,

A rumor has come to me that there is a movement in the Senate to have me
removed as the Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma. Even though I am not completely
certain this is actually being done, I'd like to bring the issue up in public
rather than have something of this nature brought up as some sort legalistic
'surprise' in a closed forum.

If this rumor is true, argument is being made that my holding the office of
Pontifex Maximus is 'illegal' because I was not elected to the position in
the Comitiae. The person informing me has said that 12 Senators have signed
on to this idea so far. No one has spoken a word to me officially as yet...
if this rumor is indeed true I would no doubt hear nothing until folks were
sure they had a 'senate majority' first. By then it would be far too late to
defend myself.

I must say that if this rumor is true I am somewhat hurt on a personal level.
Such a thing would not be done out of a desire for legal correctness. One
would only attempt it out of a dislike for myself as an individual, or my
efforts as Pontifex Maximus. I do hope that the rumor is false - for I can
think of few things sadder than to have worked for years to create Nova Roma
and build the Religio, only to have the very people I've worked for abandon
me once things are established to a good extent.

Unfortunately I suppose I have little choice but to speak as if the rumor
*is* true. The alternative is to wait until the matter is settled before it
is officially begun!

To start, I believe that any argument that my office is invalid due to not
being 'elected by the Comitiae' is incorrect. If being done, it is a
deliberate distortion of both history and our own precedent.

First, let me present some history:

I. Originally, the Pontifex Maximus was appointed for life by the Collegium
Pontificum. This was the practiced *in the Republic* as late as 181 BCE:

"It appears that after their institution by Numa, the college had the right
of co-optation, that is, if a member of the college died (for all the
pontiffs held their office for life), the members met and elected a
successor, who after his election was inaugurated by the augurs (Dionys.
ii.22, 73). This election was sometimes called captio (Gellius, i.12). In the
year 212 B.C. Livy <A HREF="http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/livy/liv.25.html#5 ">(xxv.5) </A>speaks of the election of a pontifex maximus in
the comitia (probably the comitia tributa) as the ordinary mode of appointing
this high-priest. But in relating the events of the year 181 B.C. he again
states that the appointment of the chief pontiff took place by the
co-optation of the college <A HREF="http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/livy/liv.40.html#42 ">(Liv. xl.42)</A>."

II. Secondly, the practice of election of the Pontifex Maximus by Comitiae
vote was the practice only for a relatively short time - 181 BCE to 12 CE, a
span of less than 200 years out of the entire history of Rome. (After that
time the position was co-opted by the Emperors, meaning there was no election
at all.)

III. In the year 375 AD, the emperor Gratian became the first emperor to
refuse the title of Pontifex Maximus. There were members of the Religio
priesthood in Rome to hold the title after Gratian - but the position was
again appointed within the Collegium Pontificum rather than elected among the
divided Roman citizenship at large. This would be the latest historical
precedent. If Nova Roma considers itself in the latest successor to the
Religio in Roma Antiqua, it seems reasonable to at least begin where the
ancient Religio left off. Especially since we have the same varied religious
mix in our Citizenship as existed in later antiquity.

Next, let me speak about our own legal precedent here in Nova Roma:

I. There is nothing in our Constitution that states that the Pontifex Maximus
must be elected by the Comitiae in order to hold the position legally.

II. There are many things in Nova Roma which are not exactly the same as in
some specific period of the Republic. These include our entire Gens system,
our electoral system, our legal system, our inclusion of women in politics
and religion, our exclusion of slavery, and much more. To single one office
out for a narrow definition of legality would seem absurd. If my position as
Pontifex Maximus is illegal, it would seem we must hold much of our
government and community itself to be illegal as well.

III. My being appointed as Pontifex Maximus was accepted and has been
considered legal and official since July 4, 1999. If that is not considered
ratification and legal precedent, what is? Should all I have done since that
time be considered invalid? If so, the idea is a slippery slope... that would
mean our current Comitia Curiata has never been legal, meaning no one has
ever held valid Imperium in Nova Roma, nor do they now.

IV. *All* of our 'first things' in the founding of Nova Roma were illegal as
far tradition. Our Senate, constitution, magistrates, laws, etc. all had to
be done outside the scope of ancient precedent. So too with the office of
Pontifex Maximus. We had to start somewhere. Either we consider our foundings
valid, or we do not. If not, we might as well scrap all of Nova Roma. If we
do, then it is the *second generation* of things that should be held to such
standards. I am but the first Pontifex Maximus appointed in Nova Roma.

Finally, I offer some links for further information:

<A HREF="http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/1999/1999-01-04.html#M0004">http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/1999/1999-01-04.html#M0004</A>

<A HREF="http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Pontifex.html">
http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/

SMIGRA*/Pontifex.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.livius.org/pn-po/pontifex/maximus.html">http://www.livius.org/pn-po/pontifex/maximus.html</A>

<A HREF="http://sights.seindal.dk/sight/1244_Pontifex_maximus.html">http://sights.seindal.dk/sight/1244_Pontifex_maximus.html</A>

I will leave specific arguments at this for now, and will wait to see what
happens. In the meantime I will continue to serve Nova Roma as Pontifex
Maximus. At present I am working on a public rite to the Dioscuri to be held
on the 27th of this month, and there will be a vote coming up in the
Collegium Pontificum shortly. Agenda items on that vote will be a decretum
clarifying the infamous 'blasphemy clause' in the NR Constitution, and a
decretum defining state religious office and local provinciae involvement.

I sincerely hope that the above rumor is not true. If it is, I ask that those
of you who are my friends will make an offering on my behalf during your
household rites.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pater Patriae
Senator
Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:39:32 -0600 (CST)

Salve Senator Marce Cassi,

> If this rumor is true, argument is being made that my holding the office of
> Pontifex Maximus is 'illegal' because I was not elected to the position in
> the Comitiae. The person informing me has said that 12 Senators have signed
> on to this idea so far. No one has spoken a word to me officially as yet...
> if this rumor is indeed true I would no doubt hear nothing until folks were
> sure they had a 'senate majority' first. By then it would be far too late to
> defend myself.

Distressing news; but I believe this is merely a rumour. I have
heard nothing of such a plot, have not been approached by any
Senator. I also have complete confidence in both of our Consuls
for this year and firmly believe that they would never participate in
or endorse such a scheme.

You have my complete support in this.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:56:11 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> A rumor has come to me that there is a movement in the Senate to
have me
> removed as the Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma. Even though I am not
completely
> certain this is actually being done, I'd like to bring the issue up
in public
> rather than have something of this nature brought up as some sort
legalistic
> 'surprise' in a closed forum.

Salve,

I certainly hope that this is just a rumor. For what it is worth you
have my complete support, both officially as an elected magistrate
and generally as a citizen.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator/Citizen

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:07:09 EST

Salve,

Many thanks. :)

It indeed may just *be* rumor. I *do* know that the idea itself is real
enough - it was the idea/opinion of Senator and Pontiff Q. Fabius Maximus, at
least originally. He argued it with me in person during the last Roman Days
event he attended.

Since I was aware the idea was a sincere one a couple of years ago, I could
not take the risk of ignoring this rumor now. I notice that Q. Fabius seems
rather angry toward me in his latest two replies... perhaps he could confirm
this one way or another?

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

In a message dated 1/16/03 4:41:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, haase@konoko.net
writes:

> Distressing news; but I believe this is merely a rumour. I have
> heard nothing of such a plot, have not been approached by any
> Senator. I also have complete confidence in both of our Consuls
> for this year and firmly believe that they would never participate in
> or endorse such a scheme.
>
> You have my complete support in this.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:15:05 -0500

Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Senatori et Pontifici Maximo Marco Cassio
Juliano Saultem Plurimam Dictit,

> A rumor has come to me that there is a movement in the Senate to have
me removed as the Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma. Even though I am not
completely >certain this is actually being done, I'd like to bring the
issue up in public rather than have something of this nature brought up
as some sort legalistic 'surprise' in a >closed forum.

>If this rumor is true, argument is being made that my holding the
office of Pontifex Maximus is 'illegal' because I was not elected to the
position in the Comitiae. The >person informing me has said that 12
Senators have signed on to this idea so far. No one has spoken a word to
me officially as yet... if this rumor is indeed true I would >no doubt
hear nothing until folks were sure they had a 'senate majority' first.
By then it would be far too late to defend myself.

For the sake of our Res Publica, I sincerely hope that this is merely a
nasty rumor. Should it turn out to be more than such, I wish to assure
you that you have my full support as a citizen, sacerdotes and as a
friend.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:23:33 -0000

Marcus Cassius Julianus writes:

> A rumor has come to me that there is a movement in the Senate to
> have me removed as the Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma. [...]

I sincerely hope the rumor is baseless. If it is true, I for one
would ask those considering this idea to abandon it. Marcus Cassius
Julianus is a fine and good man, one who represents the finest and
best qualities of the Religio Romana as I understand them. However
he came to be Pontifex Maximus, there is no doubt in my mind that
he now *is* Pontifex Maximus, and will remain such for so long as
he draws breath.

Julianus, you have my condolences for the distress this must be
causing you, and my promise of whatever support I can lend you.

-- Marinus

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:24:15 +0100

cassius622@aol.com wrote:
> A rumor has come to me that there is a movement
> in the Senate to have me removed as the Pontifex
> Maximus of Nova Roma.

Salve, Marce Cassi Juliane.

Other aspects of the matter aside, is this at all possible? Isn't the
office of Pontifex Maximus one appointed by the collegium ponteficium,
not the senate? I do believe this is explicitly stated in our
constitution.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:25:42 +0100

Salvete Quirites!

As the Senior Consul of Nova Roma I hereby openly accuse those who
would possibly participate in an intrigue to remove our Pontifex
Maximus of being traitors and schemers!

I assure You, Illustrus Marcus Cassius Julianus that You have my
complete support! Such intrigues will hurt our Res Publica and must
be dealt with harshly!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [ReligioRomana] Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:36:12 EST

In a message dated 1/16/03 5:27:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
christer.edling@telia.com writes:

> As the Senior Consul of Nova Roma I hereby openly accuse those who
> would possibly participate in an intrigue to remove our Pontifex
> Maximus of being traitors and schemers!
>
> I assure You, Illustrus Marcus Cassius Julianus that You have my
> complete support! Such intrigues will hurt our Res Publica and must
> be dealt with harshly!
>

Salve,

Many thanks for your support, Consul, but I don't believe there is much need
for anger, even if the rumor IS true.

Nova Roma has been around for five years, and things happen. Even if this
rumor proved to be 100% accurate, (and there is no proof of that at all!) it
would not be the biggest thing to happen in our community.

As I've said, I myself am content to wait, and don't feel any particular need
to be angry. If anything comes of the rumor I'll do my best to face it with
sincerity and dignity. What more can be done!

I brought this matter to the list only because I knew there would be a time
limit for effective action on my part, not because I wished that there should
be anger or accusations among us. Perhaps something will come of this in the
Senate - perhaps not. In the meantime it's business as usual.

And, until something more concrete should happen, I'll try not to disrupt the
list bandwidth more than I already have had to...

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:39:09 -0800

Avete Consul et Omnes,

While I completely understand your vocal support of the Pontifex Maximus. I do believe your condemnation of those who might oppose the Pontifex Maximus as very divisive and not helpful of any situation.

A Consul should try to bring the people of Nova Roma together. Not drive a wedge.

And just for the record, I have not been approached by anyone in the Senate or citizen to remove the Pontifex Maximus. But if I had I would listen to any petition to see if it was valid and with justification. Remember we must all pay attention to the needs of Nova Roma. For it is because of Nova Roma that we are here. Not to cater to the ego's of individuals.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: ReligioRomana@yahoogroups.com ; SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com ; NovaBritannia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?

Salvete Quirites!

As the Senior Consul of Nova Roma I hereby openly accuse those who
would possibly participate in an intrigue to remove our Pontifex
Maximus of being traitors and schemers!

I assure You, Illustrus Marcus Cassius Julianus that You have my
complete support! Such intrigues will hurt our Res Publica and must
be dealt with harshly!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 00:57:47 +0100

Salve Cassius,

I for one think that you are/have been an excellent Pontifex Maximus. It is
simply wonderful that you spend so much time sharing your knowledge with
those of us on the Religio list. And you are *always* patient and kind, even
though I am pretty at you have answered some of these questions
20 times already over the years!

Rumors have a way of growing each time they are repeated. It could very well
be that 2 people discussed this and by the time you heard it, the number
grew to 12. But *if* it is true, then I am glad that you've brought it into
the light of day so that those sneaking around behind your back will now
have to either state their opinions publicly or cancel their plans.

Vale!
Diana Moravia Aventina

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/