Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	lanius117@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:32:47 EST

Salvete omnes,

Since I became a citizen of Nova Roma last February, I have had many
occasions to communicate with Senator Marcus Cassius Iulianus, both via email
and in person. I have monitored the main and other lists and have read his
messages to the citizens of Nova Roma. He has impressed me as being
hard-working, truthful, and dedicated to the spirit of Nova Roma. I cannot
believe that ANYONE would consider removing him from ANY office he now holds.
He has shown time and again the effort he puts into making Nova Roma better
for us all.

I fully support Senator Iulianus as Pontifex Maximus, and ask others to
pledge their support as well.

Vale, respectfully

GAIVS LANIVS FALCO
Legatus Regionis Massachusetts
Acting Praefectus Sodalitas Egressus, Provincia Britannia
Scriba Propraetoris, Provincia Nova Britannia
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Paterfmilias Gens Lania

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus? Tribune's opinion
From:	"rexmarciusnr <RexMarcius@aol.com>" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 02:44:29 -0000

>
> Other aspects of the matter aside, is this at all possible? Isn't
the
> office of Pontifex Maximus one appointed by the collegium
ponteficium,
> not the senate? I do believe this is explicitly stated in our
> constitution.
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Salve Tite,

A necessarily short answer as I am about to leave for the airport and
will be unavailable for the next three days.

The constitution indeed states in VI.b.1 that the collegium
pontificum shall appoint its own members (including the Pontifex
Maximus). The Senate and the Comitiae play no role in this.

However, our Constitution also provides for two extraordinary
measures:
the appointment of a dictator and the senatus consultum ultimum both
of which allow actions otherwise not allowed by the constitution
(which would include the removal of the old and the appointment of a
new Pontifex Maximus and in case of a dictator's edictum even the
permanent change of the constitution subject to a senate
confirmation). To institute such extraordinary measures a Senate
vote is required.

I guess now you can see why the Senate's support would be crucial in
such a scheme.

However, any such measure could only be taken in the case of
emergencies (explicitly in the case of the Dictator and implicitly in
the case of the SCU). If the "emergency" is simply based on the wish
to remove a person not to the liking of the Senate majority, you can
count on this Tribune at least to veto the relevant Senatus Consultum.

Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex
Tribunus Plebis

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@novaroma.org>
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:54:36 -0600

Salvete Tite Octavi omnesque

> Other aspects of the matter aside, is this at all possible? Isn't the
> office of Pontifex Maximus one appointed by the collegium ponteficium,
> not the senate? I do believe this is explicitly stated in our
> constitution.

You are correct. The Senate cannot constitutionally remove the Pontifex
Maximus without appointing a dictator or resorting to the Senatus
Consultum Ultimum.

That said, it would be possible for the Senate to issue a
senatusconsultum advising the Collegium Pontificum that the Senate is
dissatisfied with the Pontifex Maximus. The collegium would be free to
either ignore or act upon that advice.

In this case, though, none of these eventualities will occur unless
someone can come forward with good evidence that M Cassius has violated
the public trust. In the absence of such evidence, neither my collega
nor I would consent to place the matter before the Senate for a vote.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus? Tribune's opinion
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:46:49 EST

In a message dated 1/16/03 6:46:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
RexMarcius@aol.com writes:

> To institute such extraordinary measures a Senate
> vote is required. I guess now you can see why the Senate's support would be
> crucial in such a scheme.
>

Conscript Fathers.

Which is why I said extraordinary danger to the State would be necessary to
allow the Senate to intervine. However the college would have taken action
long before the Senate would in the case of a rogue PM.

Q. Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus: The Former Praetrix Speaks
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 04:24:42 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

Well, I can resign from politics, but that does not, nor has it ever
meant that I have resigned from caring about the republic.

With respect to the 'removal' of the Pontifex Maximus, allow me to say
this: He cannot up and 'be removed' in the absence of due process of
law. A petition even from all the Senators is not LAW. It is a
Senatus Consultum.

This Senatus Consultum can be presented to comitia to be voted upon as
law, but until this happens, it is nothing more than an August Piece
of Advice from the Senate. I do not negate their advice in the word
'only', but advance this to say that it is only a piece of the puzzle
that would make such an action law.

Pontifex Maximus Marcus Cassius, we have had our ups and downs in the
Senate, but we have chatted personally and have met in person.
Moreover, I am probably your wife's biggest fan. Her gentle spirit
and the godly spirit she exudes shows to anyone who has met her, that
she is sincerely seeking and searching to bring love and light to the
world.

You are damned lucky to have her, yunno that??? (grin)

And now, for the honesty on my part. Had I have been Consul this
year, I would have entertained the notion of presenting to the Senate
the making a Pontifex Maximus a 5 year term or so.

There was historical precedent for the appointments of PM in
antiquita, but also for the 'election' of same. Julius Caesar was
voted in as PM for example (so much for informed voting :) )

Also, with us stationed in the 21 century, and our trying to balance
historical replicacy with modern day sensibilities, plus not wanting
to make the mistakes of previous religious states, we need to look at
how appropriate it is for one man to be appointed for a life-long
commission. With the two historical examples, appointed vs. elected, I
felt the people should have a choice.

The populace today is educated, not the farmers of old who were void
of education. Also, we are a voluntary micronation for the moment...we
are not all here because we 'have' to be. It is because we 'wish to
be' and are 'committed to be'. With the utmost of respect to you (and
you could be anybody), I simply do not think this is entirely appropriate.

My other piece of reasoning is that, it is simply too much commitment
to ask of any one person. Marcus Cassius, you have a life too! You
are entitled to do other things besides commit such a chunk of your
life to the inestimable commitments of being the Primus Religious
Shepherd of Nova Roma.

At any rate, this was something that I was entertaining presenting to
the Senate for evaluation....but such a reform would have to be voted
in by comitia.

You have heard several pleas of satisfaction regarding your service
from comitia, so this should be a comfort to you.

Further, if such a thing does transpire, remember, it is not law
without the people.

That's why I turn into such an impossible hothead, sqwackbox when I
see things which remotely interfere with the judgement of
comitia....because as Polybius puts it...without the people we have no
republic. The secret to a stable and mighty republic, after analyzing
Polybius' writings, is a balance between Senate and Comitia.

I write this out of honest analysis of the law, and out of assurrance
to you that such a 'scheme' is merely wishful thinking in the absence
of comitia.

I hope you will all take these comments in the spirit in which they
are intended. Certainly I have nothing to gain personally, no longer
being
a major factor in politics.

Bene vale,
Pompeia

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 05:50:27 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<haase@c...> wrote:
> Salve Senator Marce Cassi,
>
> > If this rumor is true, argument is being made that my holding the
office of
> > Pontifex Maximus is 'illegal' because I was not elected to the
position in
> > the Comitiae. The person informing me has said that 12 Senators
have signed
> > on to this idea so far.

(snip)
>
> You have my complete support in this.

Salve Marce Octavi et Senator/Pontifex Marcus Cassius:

Yes, yes, indeed distressing. Assuming this all is 'not'rumour,we
couldn't just approach the Pontifex Maximus with concerns as opposed
to garnering petitions behind his back, which in the absence of
comitia, or as the Junior Consul states, a dictator or interrex'
issuance, is totally bogus.

It seems a rather slimshot way for Marcus Cassius to 'start' a rumour
of this manner, so I am inclined to think there is a morsel of truth
to it. Indeed, he deserves better, being a citizen and moreover, a
founder of Nova Roma.

But it seems to be the modus of late. Smear campaigns.

As for me, I announced honestly to the Senate approximately three
weeks before the election announcement that my circumstances changed,
thereby allowing me time to avail myself as consul. I was rather
hoping for a letter or letters from the conscript body on whether or
not they felt it was a good idea.

I received nothing.

It seems strange that an actively biased novus civie, and a few
veteran civies here today, gone tomorrow, appeared out of the
woodwork, with a sudden axe to grind against nonpractitioners.

Not that I care about that.....but be honest. If you don't want them,
don't pretend you do. Problem solved. Adjust the website and
constitution. Problems solved. This would cut down on the hurt and
embarrassing stance of Nova Roma to the public, if nothing else.

What I 'am' against is the total ignorance of Roman Law in favour of a
caustically opinionated person, only for the same Law (Praetoral
Edictum List Guidelines) to be used some 10 days later to quell the
whole debate....lol!

Most other 'strictly Pagan' lists....the man would have been gone.

Do we place our friendships/personal inclinations/thirsts for a debate
above the law? I dunno....

Do we succumb to smear campaigns to attain power which is currently
virtual in nature, and is more of a stance of service that any
perceived perpetual glory??? I dunno.....

Marcus Octavius, I had to do a bit of research on this Iulius
Castrocari, G. Agorius Taurus (cant say his macronational name,
against the law) I was mystified by this man who can relegate as
idiots (wiccans) large numbers of people for such niggardly reasons,
or accuse them of being solely responsible for large-scale homocides
which transpired in antiquity (Christians). I was visiting his sites.
Then I visited www.graveyards.com.....linked into your Gothic
Pages.....then to "Dark Poetry" and found I had read one of the
literary offerings...written by Taurus/Castrocari himself.....from the
link to his personal site off yours.

Friend of yours, Octavi? Not accusing, just asking.

At any rate, I sure would like to know why he was above the list
guidelines. I would like to know if he was worth the hurt that more
than one or two persons felt.

The man doesn't practice the religio...which is hillarius, because he
pretty much pretended he did!

No, I contend with those who speak out against smear campaigns, and
hold in contempt the behaviours of those who will not honestly present
their positions on certain issues and certain people.

Further,I will not vent to religious/racial/cultural biggotry, and
anyone who knows me well, knows that much. It is the root cause of
all hate in the world.

Who knows??? Maybe Agorius is some sort of prophet....:::eye
rolling:::: I guess we'll never know. His job is done, I believe. He
has moved on to another place, where his talents are needed.

Pompeia
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] awwwwww
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:04:34 -0500

On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 05:05 AM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> Moreover, I am probably your wife's biggest fan. Her gentle spirit
> and the godly spirit she exudes shows to anyone who has met her, that
> she is sincerely seeking and searching to bring love and light to the
> world.
>
> You are damned lucky to have her, yunno that??? (grin)

Po, you sweetie, I am blushing! Thank you very much for the kind words.
(But I think I'm the lucky one in this marriage...)

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 07:40:45 -0600 (CST)

Salve Pompeia,

> But it seems to be the modus of late. Smear campaigns.

It would also seem that every time that there is any
controversy on any subject whatsoever, you will take it as an
opportunity to change the subject to the Agorius incident.

> I was visiting his sites.
> Then I visited www.graveyards.com.....linked into your Gothic
> Pages.....then to "Dark Poetry" and found I had read one of the
> literary offerings...written by Taurus/Castrocari himself.....from the
> link to his personal site off yours.
>
> Friend of yours, Octavi? Not accusing, just asking.

I do not have any "Gothic Pages" or "Dark Poetry" on my site at all,
having no interest in such matters. Nor do I have any links to any
pages known to be managed by Agorius. I never heard of him before he
showed up on the list in November, and I've heard nothing from him
since he fell silent a few weeks later.

My site does NOT link to anything of his. I demand that you either
prove or retract that insinuation.

> But it seems to be the modus of late. Smear campaigns.

Indeed.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:18:58 -0800 (PST)

It seems entirely logical and sensible to me that the
Collegium Pontificum should be solely responsible for
electing the Pontifex Maximum, except in cases of
extreme emergency or malfeasance, as stated elsewhere.

I hope that this rumor does prove to be false.

Marcus Cassius Julianus and Patricia Cassia have both
come across to me, ever since I became a citizen of
Nova Roma, as singularly level-headed, considerate,
and gracious people, in official and public
communications and in private ones.

I cannot speak for the Senate, but as a citizen and
member of the Vigintisexviri, M. Cassius Julianus has
my full support. We need more people like him.

Renata Corva Cantrix
Rogatrix

=====
Chantal
http://www.theranweyr.org

"Yesterday, it worked.
Today, it is not working.
Windows is like that."

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] To Pompeia - regarding Consulship
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:38:15 EST

Pompeia Cornelia wrote:

>As for me, I announced honestly to the Senate approximately three
weeks before the election announcement that my circumstances changed,
thereby allowing me time to avail myself as consul. I was rather
hoping for a letter or letters from the conscript body on whether or
not they felt it was a good idea.

>I received nothing.

Salve,

Pompeia, you refer to message #5016 in the Senate records, posted on October
15, 2002. I for one, am very sorry that you were disappointed in not
receiving any response from the Senate. I do not believe at all that anyone
was trying to slight you in any way - certainly I was not! The idea that you
may have been feeling upset over this for the past four months is a terrible
surprise. That's a long time to be feeling rejected. Nobody would have wished
that for you.

Your post was simply a formal announcement that you would stand for consul -
just one formality of many to come with the elections. No feedback or opinion
was asked. If you had asked any sort of question, or asked for support or
advice, surely most if not all of the Senate would have replied to you!

Please also consider also that your announcement came right after the Senate
had gone through a huge argument about Gens structure. It is entirely likely
that nobody was about to rise enthusiastically in support of *anyone* else
without some prodding... my guess is that we *all* were a little 'burned out'
at that point. Not a great time to be expecting spontaneous enthusiasm... or,
unfortunately, even common courtesy.

It is upsetting to think that you considered quiet acceptance of your post as
some sort of slight or rejection. My guess is that at that particular time if
anyone *had* wanted to slight or reject you, they'd certainly have spoken up
- asked or unasked.

Speaking for myself, if I had thought for a moment that you were waiting
hopefully for positive feedback, I'd have said *something*. At that
particular time it might not have been "Pompeia, this is wonderful, I think
you'd make a great Consul!", but at the very least I'd have congratulated you
for your decision, and willingness to serve on behalf of Nova Roma.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Century Points and the Roman work ethic
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:35:24 -0400

On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 02:31:49PM -0500, qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/15/03 6:48:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> pectus_roboreus1@yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > I have a rule about not creating grounds for future resentment that way,
> > myself. Future citizens may not "pay off" on that debt, and, truth to
> > tell, I don't expect them to do so. As well, many parents can tell you
> > all about "future gratitude"... not a game I choose to play.
>
> Municius, what on earth are you talking about? What future resentment?

It's "Minucius", thanks. If you hadn't clipped the part that I was
responding to, the subject would be clear as daylight. I'll quote it
again:

> Our reward will be from future NR citizens, who will thank us for
> preserving and sacrificing for this project in order for it to be a
> success.

You expect some kind of a future gratitude for your reward; in my
experience, that's nothing more than a resentment trap.

> And
> if there is resentment, these people are in the wrong place.

I expect that the citizens here are fully capable of deciding, without
anyone's help or instruction, whether this place is wrong or right for
them; your approach isn't the only one, nor are your beliefs universal.

> NR will
> accomplish goals only after people lose this self centered approach of
> theirs.

What self-centered approach are you talking about? I've seen a number of
cives donating their time in return for what might be considered no
significant reward - I'm afraid I have yet to find a coffee shop that
would accept century points for even a small cup - and I haven't heard
(although I may simply lack information on this point) of any paid
positions in NR. Do you have information to the contrary?

> To quote a great man "Ask not your country can do for you, but what
> you can do for your country."
> The reversal of this ethic is what caused the decline of the republic after
> the Third Macedonian War.

<shrug> Those circumstances are not particularly relevant to Nova Roma's
current situation. As to the ethical behavior that I have seen exhibited
by the various cives here, particularly a number of people who hold
significant positions in NR, that's one of the main reasons that I
became a citizen. I think it's a bit early to project our decline based
on our ethics - although a reminder of what constitutes pro- vs.
contra-survival behavior for our nation may not be out of place.

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dum inter homines sumus, colamus humanitatem.
As long as we are among humans, let us be humane.
-- Seneca, "De ira"

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Comitia Centuriata Election Results
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:09:51 +0100

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Omnibus Civibus Novae Romae SPD,

Comitia Centuriata final results in the election of Praetors

The results in the Comitia Centuriata have been certified by the
Rogatores. The Rogatores have provided the following results: 153
citizens voted. Members of 52 Centuries cast votes. Therefore, the
candidates had to carry 27 Centuries each to win.
.

Marcus Arminius Maior: 16 Centuries

1, 2, 9, 10, 13, 14, 19, 21, 23, 28, 46, 47, 48, 59, 62, 87

Gnaeus Salix Astur: 30 Centuries

3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 17, 18, 20, 21, 24, 25,
30, 37, 39, 40, 42, 51, 54, 58, 61, 65, 68,
78, 88

Decius Iunius Palladius: 28 Centuries

2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24,
25, 27, 28, 34, 40, 42, 43, 45, 81, 86, 88

Barnabas Aemilius: 1 Century

71

Centuries where the result was a tie between candidates were assigned
according to law to individual candidates, Century 11 were decided by
lot and went to Decius Iunius Palladius.

Gnaeus Salix Astur and Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus are elected
Praetores for MMDCCLVI. Gnaeus Salix Astur will be Senior.

Marcus Arminius Maior didn't recieve enough support, I thank him for
standing for office.

I extend my thanks to the Rogators for their work, to all three
candidates for standing for this office (and commend their patience,
waiting through three elections).
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Some thoughts on rumour mongering & gossips...
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:13:04 +0100

Salvete,

I've been thinking a lot about this removal of our Pontifex Maximus rumour a
lot in the last 18 hours...

When I hear third party that someone dislikes me, I get upset and wonder why
the Hell someone had the *need* to share that info with me in the first
place... It usually ends up that I hear later on that this gossip wnet back
to the person who supposedly doesn't like me and say 'Diana said this about
you'.... These types get their kicks from starting trouble.

Even worse is if I were told '12 people are doing this behind your back, but
no names mentioned'. This would put me to paranoic levels of suspicion. And
that is where we are now. We are ready to figuratively lynch 12 unnamed
Senators for the insult done to our Pontifex Maximus. We have all been
wondering: Which Senators did it? What are their motives? etc. etc.

I have read the emails posted, and we have all seen that unless it is an
*extreme* circumstance, the Senate has to let the Collegium Pontificum
handle any problem (*if* there was one) with their Pontifex Maximus on their
own. Since the Senators know this as well, to me this pretty much rules out
12 of them working together to try to get our PM out... So I am beginning to
wonder the motives behind the person who told Marcus Cassius this rumour (or
told someone else who was sure to repeat it to Marcus Cassius). Out of love
for him and loyalty? I wonder... I am beginning to think it likely that this
'advance warning' got to the Pontifex Maximus via someone who is just trying
to start internal problems within the Religio and the Senate.

We are all different people with different viewpoints. Let's not let any
seemingly unfounded rumour make us suspicious of one another.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis
*******************************

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Some thoughts on rumour mongering & gossips...
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:26:30 -0500

On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 04:13:04PM +0100, Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:

Salve, Diana Moravia Aventina:
>
> When I hear third party that someone dislikes me, I get upset and wonder why
> the Hell someone had the *need* to share that info with me in the first
> place... It usually ends up that I hear later on that this gossip wnet back
> to the person who supposedly doesn't like me and say 'Diana said this about
> you'.... These types get their kicks from starting trouble.

<Nod> A net.friend of mine, someone whose judgement I greatly respect,
calls this "playing telephone" and interdicts any attempts to do so in
a very firm manner. I believe she's absolutely right to do so.

> We are all different people with different viewpoints. Let's not let any
> seemingly unfounded rumour make us suspicious of one another.

Good advice at this point, I'd say.

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Audentes fortuna iuvat.
Fortune favours the brave.
-- Vergil, "Aenis"

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Bloggus Caesari
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:43:23 -0000

Yes, it's the blog everyone's talking about! Gaius Julius Caesar's
daily updates from Gaul, available now at

http://www.sankey.ca/caesar

Today's episode is

http://www.sankey.ca/caesar/cat_10_vercingetorix.html#000932

"The Arverni have indeed marched against the Bituriges, led by a
new 'king' named Vercingetorix. I'm getting more info about this
character. The Bituriges went to their protectors the Aedui for
support; the Aedui consulted Labienus and he recommended they send
infantry and cavalry. This has been done.

I may be able to run for the consulship in absentia. It's
unprecedented, but so are many things happening these days
(Pompey's sole consulship). It could be the perfect compromise
for the time being, I just have to make sure Pompey and the
Senate don't get any tighter than they are now."

Posted by Julius Caesar at 01:31 PM

This public service announcement has been brought to you by

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta -- Weekly Roman News And Archeology
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 07:47:52 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Omnes,

please find the latest news at:

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/

Come on and enjoy!!

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Congratulations! (Comitia Centuriata Election Results)
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:48:32 -0000

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus writes:

> Gnaeus Salix Astur and Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus are elected
> Praetores for MMDCCLVI. Gnaeus Salix Astur will be Senior.

Congratulations to both of you, I'm so very pleased to see this
election decided at last. I'm sure you'll both be fine praetors.

Also, my sincere thanks to everyone who voted.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] REMINDER: CALL FOR COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA: Edictum Consulare CFQ
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:48:57 +0100

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

I just want to remind all citizens about the election of a 8th
Quaestor according to the Edictum below. The election begins in about
70 minutes.
==================================

Edictum Consulare CFQ V de Comitiorum Populi Tributorum Convocatione

I. As the auspices are favourable the Comitia Populi Tributa is
hereby convened to elect this year's eigth Quaestor. The following
candidates are running for office: Petrus Domitianus Artorinus
Longinus, Caius Minius Messala Bellator and Publius Tarquitius Rufus.

II. The candidates have been citizens for different periods and may
assume office at different dates, which are listed here:

Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus as soon as the result is
announced. (citizen since 2001 / 02 / 21)
Ca�us Minius Messala Bellator at the 24th of July 2756 A.U.C. (2003)
(citizen since 2002 / 12 / 24)
Publius Tarquitius Rufus at the 23h of April 2756 A.U.C. (2003)
(citizen since 2002 / 10 / 23)

III. The Contio shall begin at 18:00 Roman Time, Sunday the 12th of January.

IV. Voting shall begin at 18:01 Roman Time, Friday the 17th of January.

V. Voting shall end at 18:01 Roman Time, Saturday the 25th of January.

Given 10th of January, in the year of the Consulship of Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus, 2756 AUC.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

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--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Comitia Centuriata Election Results
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:58:04 +0100

Salvete Senatores!

Congratulations to Illustrus Gnaeus Salix Astur and Illustrus Decius
Iunius Palladius Invictus for your elections as Praetores. I am sure
that You both will be a good Praetores and I look forward to working
with You! I also want to Congratulate Illustrus Gnaeus Salix Astur as
he now enters the Curia and greet him welcome to the marble benches!

>Gnaeus Salix Astur and Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus are elected
>Praetores for MMDCCLVI. Gnaeus Salix Astur will be Senior.
>
>Marcus Arminius Maior didn't recieve enough support, I thank him for
>standing for office.

--

Valete

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: awwwwww
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:10:02 -0000

---Salve Patricia:

awwwe nothing. :) You are the flora optima of Nova Roma. I wish you
the very best....always.

Po

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Cassia <pcassia@n...> wrote:
>
> On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 05:05 AM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:
>
> > Moreover, I am probably your wife's biggest fan. Her gentle spirit
> > and the godly spirit she exudes shows to anyone who has met her, that
> > she is sincerely seeking and searching to bring love and light to the
> > world.
> >
> > You are damned lucky to have her, yunno that??? (grin)
>
> Po, you sweetie, I am blushing! Thank you very much for the kind words.
> (But I think I'm the lucky one in this marriage...)
>
> -----
> Patricia Cassia
> Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
> Nova Roma . pcassia@n...

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:25:37 -0000

---www.graveyards.com/links.html

the url to your external links, where you will find a link to the Dark
Side of the Web, with hundreds of links to the Darkside.

I just checked, it is still there as of this time.

So, no, I shall not retract what I have stated.

I don't care about your interests, except where they may cloud your
judgement of the verbage of the constitution, edicta, leges and the
wellbeing of the Roman people.

How do you ask me to retract what is there in black and white?

I would not be silly or illmilled enough to post this unless I saw it....

And since there is a correlation of interests between the two of you,
I asked you if you knew one another.

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@c...>
wrote:
> Salve Pompeia,
>
> > But it seems to be the modus of late. Smear campaigns.
>
> It would also seem that every time that there is any
> controversy on any subject whatsoever, you will take it as an
> opportunity to change the subject to the Agorius incident.
>
> > I was visiting his sites.
> > Then I visited www.graveyards.com.....linked into your Gothic
> > Pages.....then to "Dark Poetry" and found I had read one of the
> > literary offerings...written by Taurus/Castrocari himself.....from the
> > link to his personal site off yours.
> >
> > Friend of yours, Octavi? Not accusing, just asking.
>
> I do not have any "Gothic Pages" or "Dark Poetry" on my site at all,
> having no interest in such matters. Nor do I have any links to any
> pages known to be managed by Agorius. I never heard of him before he
> showed up on the list in November, and I've heard nothing from him
> since he fell silent a few weeks later.
>
> My site does NOT link to anything of his. I demand that you either
> prove or retract that insinuation.
>
> > But it seems to be the modus of late. Smear campaigns.
>
> Indeed.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	kyrene_ariadne@templeapollo.com
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:40:40 -0500

Salvete,

scriba_forum@hotmail.com wrote on 1/17/03 11:25 am:

>---www.graveyards.com/link
>s.html
>the url to your external
>links, where you will find a
>link to the Dark
>Side of the Web, with
>hundreds of links to the
>Darkside.

Ok, I confess that I have not clicked on this link yet, but I am
confused. What does his interests have anything to do with other
people linking to his pages? If a Christian put up a link to my site
on his page, would that make me Christian? I can't control who links
to me, but if I wished, I could email them upon finding out and asking
them to remove said link.

Valete,
Andrea Gladia Cyrene

--
Kyrene Ariadne/Andrea Gladia Cyrene
kyrene_ariadne@templeapollo.com / kyrene_ariadne@templedionysos.com
Temple of Apollo
http://www.TempleApollo.com
Temple of Dionysos
http://www.TempleDionysos.com
Temple of Aphrodite
http://www.TempleAphrodite.net

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:41:43 -0600 (CST)

> the url to your external links, where you will find a link to the Dark
> Side of the Web, with hundreds of links to the Darkside.

That's the best you can come up with? That I link to a directory of thousands
of sites, one or more of which is apparently owned by Agorius?

There are no links to his site from mine.

> I just checked, it is still there as of this time.
> So, no, I shall not retract what I have stated.

Here's what you wrote:

>> literary offerings...written by Taurus/Castrocari himself.....from the
>> link to his personal site off yours.

I suppose what you wrote is vague enough that it could be considered to have
some truth to it - the only links to his site are indeed "off" of mine -
hundreds of miles off. Your little rhetorical trick here is as honest
and ethical as the classic "have you stopped beating your wife?"

I'll put in a link to Google too. That way you can accuse me of linking
to bestiality, white supremacy sites, and anything else you'd care to make up.

I notice that you use a free email service (hotmail.com) that happens to be very
popular with spammers and child pornographers. Do you know any of them personally?

> I don't care about your interests, except where they may cloud your
> judgement of the verbage of the constitution, edicta, leges and the
> wellbeing of the Roman people.

I don't think you care about much of anything at all except dragging my name
through the mud at every opportunity. Twice since the beginning of the year,
you've dredged up the incident that caused you to abandon your duty as if
it was actually relevant to current events - in order to slander me.

> How do you ask me to retract what is there in black and white?

There is nothing "there in black and white". I do NOT link to Agorius,
period, and I resent your lies and insinuations. I link to a directory
site that is no different from Yahoo or Google.

> I would not be silly or illmilled enough to post this unless I saw it....

I do not believe this for a second.

> And since there is a correlation of interests between the two of you,
> I asked you if you knew one another.

You have demonstrated no correlation of interests; I have no interests in
"goths" or "dark poetry".

Once again, I do NOT know Agorius, and I have no connection to him, and I resent
your repeated baseless attacks on me.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of the Links?
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:57:32 -0000

---Salve Octavius:

Well, if my question to you is so rediculous and loosely associated,
strictly for purposes of picking on you,soley for the sake of my
never-ending propensity to garner malicious glee, let me ask you this:

As of this time (yeah, right now), you can link to your Dark Side of
the Web portal to many links (which contained poetry by Castrocari, so
I asked if you knew him)....AND....

Guess What????

The document contains no data!!! Notta!

They are 'gone'......just like magic!

So, if I am so full of it, why are they 'gone'?

I have the original pages, by the way....

So you don't know Agorius.....fine. But please do not say that I have
no business stating as a matter of fact that there are not gothic/dark
links on your site....ahh, 'were' such links.

Again, I don't care what you do in your spare time, as long as it
doesn't interfere with the handling of treatment of people here.

And yes, I walked.......away from tending the list which was full of
Agorius' posts of the nonsensical and unlawful abuse of Nova Roma
citizens. Posts which were allowed to pass by you (that's a matter of
moderator activity record) while I was away having a birthday. I
cannot serve under a Consul who appears to be in opposition to the
Forum Edicts, for whatever reason. It is,to me, a dishonour to the
Pantheon and anything holy to allow this type of crud. We have other
things to do with our time.

So much trouble so close to election time......

The evening and day before I quit, I worked with Agorius a bit, calmed
him down, told him not to quit...and I 'thought' we had an
understanding regarding what was acceptable communication and what was
not. Apparently I was wrong.

I have a right to question possible correlations between you and him,
in light of the graciousness you extended him with respect to his
communications. Especially when it hurts people I know and love...and
I guess that, egocentrically, includes me too.

None of us is above accountability when we hold magistracies.

Pompeia

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@c...>
wrote:
>
> > the url to your external links, where you will find a link to the Dark
> > Side of the Web, with hundreds of links to the Darkside.
>
> That's the best you can come up with? That I link to a directory of
thousands
> of sites, one or more of which is apparently owned by Agorius?
>
> There are no links to his site from mine.
>
> > I just checked, it is still there as of this time.
> > So, no, I shall not retract what I have stated.
>
> Here's what you wrote:
>
> >> literary offerings...written by Taurus/Castrocari
himself.....from the
> >> link to his personal site off yours.
>
> I suppose what you wrote is vague enough that it could be considered
to have
> some truth to it - the only links to his site are indeed "off" of mine -
> hundreds of miles off. Your little rhetorical trick here is as honest
> and ethical as the classic "have you stopped beating your wife?"
>
> I'll put in a link to Google too. That way you can accuse me of linking
> to bestiality, white supremacy sites, and anything else you'd care
to make up.
>
> I notice that you use a free email service (hotmail.com) that
happens to be very
> popular with spammers and child pornographers. Do you know any of
them personally?
>
> > I don't care about your interests, except where they may cloud your
> > judgement of the verbage of the constitution, edicta, leges and the
> > wellbeing of the Roman people.
>
> I don't think you care about much of anything at all except dragging
my name
> through the mud at every opportunity. Twice since the beginning of
the year,
> you've dredged up the incident that caused you to abandon your duty
as if
> it was actually relevant to current events - in order to slander me.
>
> > How do you ask me to retract what is there in black and white?
>
> There is nothing "there in black and white". I do NOT link to Agorius,
> period, and I resent your lies and insinuations. I link to a directory
> site that is no different from Yahoo or Google.
>
> > I would not be silly or illmilled enough to post this unless I saw
it....
>
> I do not believe this for a second.
>
> > And since there is a correlation of interests between the two of you,
> > I asked you if you knew one another.
>
> You have demonstrated no correlation of interests; I have no
interests in
> "goths" or "dark poetry".
>
> Once again, I do NOT know Agorius, and I have no connection to him,
and I resent
> your repeated baseless attacks on me.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of the Links?
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:03:15 -0600 (CST)

Salve Pompeia,

> As of this time (yeah, right now), you can link to your Dark Side of
> the Web portal to many links (which contained poetry by Castrocari, so
> I asked if you knew him)....AND....
>
> Guess What????
> The document contains no data!!! Notta!

What document? Where?

Nothing has changed on graveyards.com today.

> So you don't know Agorius.....fine. But please do not say that I have
> no business stating as a matter of fact that there are not gothic/dark
> links on your site....ahh, 'were' such links.

Nothing has changed on graveyards.com today. Go have another look.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of the Links?
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:15:17 -0000

---Salve Octavius:

As of this time (right now), I couldn't be bothered. I'm quite sure
as of right now, everything is in order.

Pompeia

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@c...>
wrote:
> Salve Pompeia,
>
> > As of this time (yeah, right now), you can link to your Dark Side of
> > the Web portal to many links (which contained poetry by Castrocari, so
> > I asked if you knew him)....AND....
> >
> > Guess What????
> > The document contains no data!!! Notta!
>
> What document? Where?
>
> Nothing has changed on graveyards.com today.
>
> > So you don't know Agorius.....fine. But please do not say that I have
> > no business stating as a matter of fact that there are not gothic/dark
> > links on your site....ahh, 'were' such links.
>
> Nothing has changed on graveyards.com today. Go have another look.
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re:Pontifex - 2nd Response to Pompeia
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:27:50 EST

Pompeia Cornelia writes:

>You are damned lucky to have her, yunno that??? (grin)

Cassius:
Yes indeed! I believe no truer words have ever been spoken in this forum. :)

>And now, for the honesty on my part. Had I have been Consul this
year, I would have entertained the notion of presenting to the Senate
the making a Pontifex Maximus a 5 year term or so.
(snip for brevity)
>we need to look at
how appropriate it is for one man to be appointed for a life-long
commission. With the two historical examples, appointed vs. elected, I
felt the people should have a choice.

Cassius respondit:

I can understand how you might have such an opinion.

By the Constitution, *all* priesthoods in Nova Roma are 'for life'. This was
not done simply for historical accuracy - the Religio Romana has faced
serious problems in the past due to such issues.

In antiquity many priesthoods were appointed, and in many cases only for
limited periods of time rather than for life. Holding a priesthood became
much like a political office - one filled the office for the required period
and then moved on.

It seems that this became more of a problem over time. The priesthoods came
to be seen more as a political tool or stepping-stone to greater offices. It
is thought that politics became more important to these positions at times
than the Religio itself.

The situation got much worse when Christianity began to become popular. *All*
the new Christian priesthoods were 'for life' - a huge public and
organizational commitment to lifelong service rather than political position
for individuals. This show of sincere avocation made a huge impact with the
Roman people. The new Christian priesthood was often seen as more dedicated,
sincere, and skilled (since they had the time to gain many skills) than their
temporary counterparts in the Religio.

The last Pontifex Maximus to give clear, documented instructions regarding
this situation was the Emperor Julian. He and others recognized this relative
disparity in commitment, and the detrimental effect it was having on the
Religo. As Pontifex Maximus, Julian issued official orders that Religio
priesthood should be "for life" so that the Religio could keep practical
parity with its competition.

Not much has changed since then. Priesthood in the vast majority of world
religions today have 'for life' tenure, be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish,
Buddhist, Hindu, etc. There may be some sects that have shorter tenure, but I
cannot think of any specific examples of one as I write this. Because of
this, Julian's instructions still seem valid - the Religio still must hold
its own as one faith among many, and there should be parity in time and
commitment.

The Pontifex Maximus position was 'for life' from the time of Numa to the
final suppression of the Religio itself. That precedent, the situation the
ancient Religio did face with temporary priesthood positions, the clear
instructions of the last ancient Pontifex Maximus, and the fact that lifetime
positions continue to be the rule rather than the exception in modern faiths
- were all factors in the Constitution being as written.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: To Pompeia - regarding Consulship
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:39:45 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Pompeia Cornelia wrote:
>
> >As for me, I announced honestly to the Senate approximately three
> weeks before the election announcement that my circumstances changed,
> thereby allowing me time to avail myself as consul. I was rather
> hoping for a letter or letters from the conscript body on whether or
> not they felt it was a good idea.
>
> >I received nothing.
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Pompeia, you refer to message #5016 in the Senate records, posted on
October
> 15, 2002. I for one, am very sorry that you were disappointed in not
> receiving any response from the Senate. I do not believe at all that
anyone
> was trying to slight you in any way - certainly I was not! The idea
that you
> may have been feeling upset over this for the past four months is a
terrible
> surprise. That's a long time to be feeling rejected. Nobody would
have wished
> that for you.

(remainder snipped for brevity)

Pompeia: I did not expect a whole bunch of feedback, really. I wanted
to be honest with the Senate. At one point I didn't think it was
possible to run, and I announced this in Chambers too...the Barbarian
was having problems with my time management:) This was negotiated in
favour of my ability to run. I am one who holds the Senate in high
esteem and I wanted to be up front with them.

Another point is, and if I delivered it poorly I apologize, that I
would rather have receive a "Dear Po.....Honey, you just don't cut it"
letter than more subversive, covert measures.

Thanks for considering my feelings, but right now I am more concerned
with certain issues, which if remain unchecked are going to be our
undoing.

Damnit all, it just seems that all we do is fight, clamour and dig for
those damned century points. Yes, they are a necessary evil, but how
deeply must we plumb to get the things?

We are all guilty of hurting each others feelings, and sometimes, the
expense of feelings is necessary in the portrayal of the truth or
something a person feels strongly about. But when it isn't....???

If I wanted the 'power', honoured Pontifex, I would have kept my mouth
shut, fained a headache, held on to my position as Praetrix and ran
for Consula.

I feel I have more levity of speech without a major magistracy....just
speaking as an average Agrippina.

I would rather say I quit my position a month early due to some strong
convictions about certain things,mishandling of the law in my absence,
and feeling that I was in violation of my oath to 'keep' my position,
than to say "oh, yeah.....I toughed it out, at the expense of others,
at the expense of the law, the expense of everything this republic is
supposed to represent'

I hope this explains things a bit better.
>
Pompeia
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] darklinks.com
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:46:35 +0100

Salve Pompeia, Salve Octavius,

I think that maybe there is a misunderstanding here and well, and in the
spirit of my friend Scipio, I too hate to see people that I am very fond of
misunderstand eachother.

<As of this time (yeah, right now), you can link to your Dark Side of
<the Web portal to many links

The misunderstanding here is that www.darklinks.com is not a website of
Octavius'. It is someone else's. A 'who is' search found the following (see
below this email). The owner of http://www.darklinks.com is Carolin Campbell
from Washington State and not Octavius. So Taurinus's poetry site in the
name of Castrocari is linked to C Campbell's which is linked to
graveyards.com.

Ok, to be clear:
If you go to Octavius' site www.graveyards.com/links.html . There you can
click a link called
http://www.darklinks.com/ which takes you *off* Octavius' graveyards site.
Then there is Dark Poetry at http://www.darklinks.com/dpoetry.html. When you
click, you are taken off the darklinks/dark poetry website to yet more
sites.
I assume that http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/mothernight/trial1.html "In the
Embrace of Mother Night The Poetic Musings of Julius Castrocari ".
Another offsite link takes you to what I assume is Taurinus' personal
website http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/subrosa/bittersuite.html

So Octaivus site is pretty far away from Taurinus'.

Vale,
Diana Moravia

Registrant:
Dark Side of the Net (DARKLINKS-DOM)
PO Box 3929
null
US

Domain Name: DARKLINKS.COM

Administrative Contact:
Campbell, Carolin (CC117) carrie@CASCADE.NET
Cascade Internet Development
PO Box 53365
Bellevue, WA 98015
425/663-4259
Technical Contact:
Hostmaster, Vincenzo (VS1026) vincenzo@AREA.COM
Soylent Communications
PO Box 4436
Mountain View, CA 94040
408/293-2600

Record expires on 23-Nov-2005.
Record created on 24-Nov-1998.
Database last updated on 17-Jan-2003 12:05:53 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:

ZONE.AREA.COM 216.218.218.18
NS.AREA.COM 216.218.218.16

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:20:48 +0000 (GMT)

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens, greetings.

Not wishing to drag this discussion out any further
since we seem to have reached a consensus that it
would be rather difficult for the Senate to depose a
Pontifex Maximus, I've one more bit of evidence that
may be of interest.

Consul Fortunatus indicated that the most the Senate
could do, short of a senatusconsultum ultimum or
appointing a dictator, would be to ask the pontifical
college to remove the Pontifex. I think in fact it
would be even harder than this.

As we've all agreed, the Constitution provides that
the internal workings and membership of the pontifical
college can only be determined (short of extraordinary
measures) by that college. That college issued a
Decree on the 30th of July 1999 (2752) concerning its
internal workings. The decree is at
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/dec99073004.html.
Article IX says: "Unless otherwise stated, all
positions as priests of the public practice of the
religio romana shall be held for life, or until the
holder of the position resigns in writing to the
pontifex maximus or in public before at least three
witnesses."

So, as far as I understand it, the college would not
have the legal authority to depose the Pontifex
Maximus, but merely to ask him to resign. They could,
by a majority vote, revoke Article IX of that decree,
I suppose (see the decree at
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/dec99073002.html,
article III, for the college's voting protocols), and
*then* depose him, and then vote to re-instate Article
IX, but we would be getting into the realms of
absurdity, if we had not already arrived there.

Thanks for listening.

Cordus

=====

www.strategikon.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Removal of Pontifex Maximus?
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:42:35 +0100

"pompeia_cornelia " wrote:
> the url to your external links, where you will
> find a link to the Dark Side of the Web, with
> hundreds of links to the Darkside.

Salve, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo.

Not hundreds, actually eleven thousand, as of January 17, 1:43 AM PST.
Why you'd bother asking the censor about his involvement with the owner
of one of these eleven thousand websites is really beyond me. His
website "graveyards.com" links to an index, probably due to the fact
that they have a category called "Cemeteries and Death", which might be
of interest to visitors to his site.

This index is owned and maintained by some party who is neither involved
in Nova Roma nor a friend of either citizen "involved", as far as I
know. One of the 11'000 links this party has chosen to publish on this
index happens to lead to Octavius' website, and another to a site owned
by Agorius. I would not be surprised to find one or two other citizens
in such a large archive.

What does this mean? Approximately the same as the fact that both
websites are registered with Google, and that both can be reachable over
the internet; Nothing.

What IS more telling, however, is how much time you must have spent to
find this non-existant connection, searching through the eleven thousand
links on said index.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: darklinks.com
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:54:08 -0000

---Salve Diana:

Thanks for the info. Really unnecessary of you to go to this trouble.
He doesn't know Agorius. Cool.

That he stated that he had no Gothic Links or links on his Graveyards
site was a rather unnecessary miscarriage of the truth on his part.
There was no need for him to be so defensive, then. A simple 'he may
be linked but I don't know him' would have been fine.

Further, a retraction from me for stating something that is in black
and white is not indicated either.

I get rather narly when it comes to miscarriages of justice. I
stumbled on an commonality between Octavius and Agorius on the web.One
battered other citizens' religious beliefs, not to mention one of the
Pontiffs, and the other one let him do it. So, I asked.

I will speak no more of it.

Tribuna, not to be rude, but I shall go 'to my grave' (no pun
intended!) before I retract something that is in black and white for
all to see.

Thanks for your time,
Pompeia

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...>
wrote:
> Salve Pompeia, Salve Octavius,
>
> I think that maybe there is a misunderstanding here and well, and in the
> spirit of my friend Scipio, I too hate to see people that I am very
fond of
> misunderstand eachother.
>
> <As of this time (yeah, right now), you can link to your Dark Side of
> <the Web portal to many links
>
> The misunderstanding here is that www.darklinks.com is not a website of
> Octavius'. It is someone else's. A 'who is' search found the
following (see
> below this email). The owner of http://www.darklinks.com is Carolin
Campbell
> from Washington State and not Octavius. So Taurinus's poetry site in the
> name of Castrocari is linked to C Campbell's which is linked to
> graveyards.com.
>
> Ok, to be clear:
> If you go to Octavius' site www.graveyards.com/links.html . There
you can
> click a link called
> http://www.darklinks.com/ which takes you *off* Octavius' graveyards
site.
> Then there is Dark Poetry at http://www.darklinks.com/dpoetry.html.
When you
> click, you are taken off the darklinks/dark poetry website to yet more
> sites.
> I assume that http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/mothernight/trial1.html
"In the
> Embrace of Mother Night The Poetic Musings of Julius Castrocari ".
> Another offsite link takes you to what I assume is Taurinus' personal
> website http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/subrosa/bittersuite.html
>
> So Octaivus site is pretty far away from Taurinus'.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia
>
> Registrant:
> Dark Side of the Net (DARKLINKS-DOM)
> PO Box 3929
> null
> US
>
> Domain Name: DARKLINKS.COM
>
> Administrative Contact:
> Campbell, Carolin (CC117) carrie@C...
> Cascade Internet Development
> PO Box 53365
> Bellevue, WA 98015
> 425/663-4259
> Technical Contact:
> Hostmaster, Vincenzo (VS1026) vincenzo@A...
> Soylent Communications
> PO Box 4436
> Mountain View, CA 94040
> 408/293-2600
>
> Record expires on 23-Nov-2005.
> Record created on 24-Nov-1998.
> Database last updated on 17-Jan-2003 12:05:53 EST.
>
> Domain servers in listed order:
>
> ZONE.AREA.COM 216.218.218.18
> NS.AREA.COM 216.218.218.16

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: darklinks.com
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:30:29 +0100

Salve Pompeia,

> Thanks for the info. Really unnecessary of you to go to this trouble.
I was curious plus I really love tracking IP addresses and looking up
websites. I guess I am a closet detective, but closer to the style of Ace
Ventura rather than Dana Scully :-)))

Vale dear!
Diana Moravia

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: darklinks.com
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:47:10 -0600 (CST)

Pompeia wrote:

> That he stated that he had no Gothic Links or links on his Graveyards
> site was a rather unnecessary miscarriage of the truth on his part.

Why are you doing this?

I did NOT make such a statement. Go back and actually READ what I wrote.
Nowhere did I say I have no "gothic links". I said only that I do not
link to any site belonging to Agorius.

Your smear campaign is repugnant. You are lying and distorting facts
at every opportunity. You accused me of linking to a particular citizen
who once caused some trouble; that was false. You now accuse me of
claiming I have no "Gothic Links"; I made no claims of the sort.

> There was no need for him to be so defensive, then.

I am "defensive" because you are waging a deliberate campaign of
character assassination. Twice this month you have jumped into a
discussion of a subject completely unrelated to the events at the
end of your praetorship and twisted it into slander against me.

You tried to insinuate that I had some sort of connection to
Agorius because both of our sites appeared in a directory of
eleven thousand sites. You then accused me of committing a
"miscarriage of truth", WHILE FALSELY CLAIMING THAT I HAD SAID
SOMETHING I DID NOT.

I will not tolerate your smear campaign, your lies, your
half-truths and thinly veiled accusations. You have repeatedly
misrepresented what I have done and said.

> Further, a retraction from me for stating something that is in black
> and white is not indicated either.

I did not really expect one. You seem incapable of comprehending
the results of your actions.

> I get rather narly when it comes to miscarriages of justice.

And I get rather incensed when I am the subject of false accusations
and a campaign of harassment and slander.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Century Points and the Roman work ethic
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:04:18 EST

In a message dated 1/17/03 7:03:30 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ben@callahans.org writes:

> You expect some kind of a future gratitude for your reward; in my
> experience, that's nothing more than a resentment trap.
>
>

Minucius, I expect my statue in Forum for all my efforts for Rome. :-)

You totally
misunderstood what I was saying. But your prose did prove
my point, so we will leave it at that.

Q. Fabius Maximius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: darklinks.com
From:	"metamorphosis2003 <metamorphosis2003@yahoo.ca>" <metamorphosis2003@yahoo.ca>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:15:26 -0000

---Salve Marcus Octavius:

In message 7196 you write "I do not have any Gothic Pages or Dark
poetry on my site at all, having no interest in such matters"

Is it my computer lingo here?, but I take this to mean there is no
such content, or links to such content displayed on your primary pages.

You have links to Gothic Chicago and Links to the Darkside. So I am
hardly misreading the above.

You are not affiliated with Agorius, great.

If you are not interested in subject matter of the links on your
website,fine too.

This does not make me a liar. That makes me a citizen who asked you a
pointed question. As a magistrate you are accountable for your actions
pertinent to your involvement in Nova Roma, as I was.

Why am I doing this? I've answered that in previous posts.

You are welcome to think whatever you desire, however.

Pompeia

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@c...>
wrote:
>
> Pompeia wrote:
>
> > That he stated that he had no Gothic Links or links on his Graveyards
> > site was a rather unnecessary miscarriage of the truth on his part.
>
> Why are you doing this?
>
> I did NOT make such a statement. Go back and actually READ what I
wrote.
> Nowhere did I say I have no "gothic links". I said only that I do not
> link to any site belonging to Agorius.
>
> Your smear campaign is repugnant. You are lying and distorting facts
> at every opportunity. You accused me of linking to a particular citizen
> who once caused some trouble; that was false. You now accuse me of
> claiming I have no "Gothic Links"; I made no claims of the sort.
>
> > There was no need for him to be so defensive, then.
>
> I am "defensive" because you are waging a deliberate campaign of
> character assassination. Twice this month you have jumped into a
> discussion of a subject completely unrelated to the events at the
> end of your praetorship and twisted it into slander against me.
>
> You tried to insinuate that I had some sort of connection to
> Agorius because both of our sites appeared in a directory of
> eleven thousand sites. You then accused me of committing a
> "miscarriage of truth", WHILE FALSELY CLAIMING THAT I HAD SAID
> SOMETHING I DID NOT.
>
> I will not tolerate your smear campaign, your lies, your
> half-truths and thinly veiled accusations. You have repeatedly
> misrepresented what I have done and said.
>
> > Further, a retraction from me for stating something that is in black
> > and white is not indicated either.
>
> I did not really expect one. You seem incapable of comprehending
> the results of your actions.
>
> > I get rather narly when it comes to miscarriages of justice.
>
> And I get rather incensed when I am the subject of false accusations
> and a campaign of harassment and slander.
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Oath as Praetor
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es>" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:17:41 -0000

CN�SALIX�ASTVR�SENATO�POPULOQVE�ROMANO�S�P�D

I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo �lvarez) do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo �lvarez)
swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings,
and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo �lvarez) swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion.

I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo �lvarez) swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo �lvarez) further swear to
fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Praetor
of Nova Roma to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Praetor of Nova Roma and all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Valete bene in pace Deorum!

CN�SALIX�ASTVR�T�F�A�NEP�TRIB�OVF
PRAETOR

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: To Pompeia - Regarding Consulship (2)
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:20:31 EST

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo writes:

>Pompeia:� I did not expect a whole bunch of feedback, really. I wanted
to be honest with the Senate. At one point I didn't think it was
possible to run, and I announced this in Chambers too...the Barbarian
was having problems with my time management:)� This was negotiated in
favour of my ability to run.� I am one who holds the Senate in high
esteem and I wanted to be up front with them.

Cassius:
And so you were - and everyone took it as such to my knowledge. I'm glad at
least that this was not a big emotional thing then. Your taking the time to
speak about it four months later gave me the impression it was a big deal to
you. Hopefully this means I can stop feeling guilty for not replying to your
post? :)

>Another point is, and if I delivered it poorly I apologize, that I
would rather have receive a "Dear Po.....Honey, you just don't cut it"
letter than more subversive, covert measures.

Cassius:
You made a formal announcement that you were going to run, and the Senate
accepted it without question or comment, including people that you *know* are
your close friends, such as your Paterfamilias, Lucius Cornelius Sulla.

Again, at that particular time, I'm quite convinced that if anyone had
thought you 'couldn't cut it' they wouldn't have been shy in saying so. When
*I* read your post, I thought to myself: "Well, there's our next year's
Senior Consul, then," (you've always been popular in NR) and just kept on
reading my Senate mail. As I've said, had you asked questions or advice I'd
have certianly posted - otherwise your announcement was merely one of many to
come for the year's election.

I swear to the Gods that to my knowledge no one has worked against you by any
sort of "subversive, covert measures" to my remotest knowledge. You just
plain don't have that kind of enemies in NR as far as I've ever been aware...
even though you seem quite sure that you do.

(snip for brevity)

>If I wanted the 'power', honoured Pontifex, I would have kept my mouth
shut, fained a headache, held on to my position as Praetrix and ran
for Consula.

Cassius:
Huh? If I somehow seemed to say or imply that you were after power, Pompeia,
I most sincerely apologize. The idea never crossed my mind - and anything
that might have given the impression of such was completely unintentional.
You, without a doubt, are to my knowledge one of the least 'power hungry'
people in Nova Roma.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Pompeia v Octavius
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:23:38 -0000

My friend of long standing, Pompeia Cornelia, writes:

> He doesn't know Agorius. Cool.

*sigh*

Po, from where I watch it looks like you're obsessed with this.
I have the impression that you're convinced Octavius is either
a liar or a deceiver, and therefore unfit for duty. While I'm
sure you arrived at this conclusion by what seems like rational
thought processes to you, I just don't see it.

Marcus Octavius is a good man and a good magistrate. He supported
Agorius because he (Octavius) believes passionately in the idea
that freedom of expression is a fundamental human right. I know
this with absolute certainty.

Pompeia, you and I have exchanged private e-mail on this topic
in the past few months. You know my feelings on the matter.
I understand and appreciate your feelings of loss and of being
hung out to dry. But please, let this go. If you just can't
let it go, then let me or other of your friends work this out
between you and Octavius to both of your satisfaction in some
less public way. If you can't do either of those, then maybe
you should just start signing every post you make with "... and
furthermore Octavius must be destroyed."

I say that last half in jest and full earnest, because it seems
to me that you're being overwhelmed with bitterness by the
rancor you feel toward Octavius. It's sad for me to watch, and
detracts from the collective dignitas of our Republic.

-- Marinus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Congratulations! (Comitia Centuriata Election Results)
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es>" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:24:39 -0000

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Marine.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<equitius_marinus@y...>" <equitius_marinus@y...> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Congratulations to both of you, I'm so very pleased to see this
> election decided at last. I'm sure you'll both be fine praetors.

Thank you very much, Marine.

> Also, my sincere thanks to everyone who voted.

I would like to thank them as well. I will try to be a good praetor
during this year. I am at your service.

CN�SALIX�ASTVR�T�F�A�NEP�TRIB�OVF
PRAETOR

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Comitia Centuriata Election Results
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es>" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:26:26 -0000

Salvete Quirites; et salve, consul Quintiliane.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salvete Senatores!
>
> Congratulations to Illustrus Gnaeus Salix Astur and Illustrus
> Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus for your elections as Praetores. I
> am sure that You both will be a good Praetores and I look forward
> to working with You! I also want to Congratulate Illustrus Gnaeus
> Salix Astur as he now enters the Curia and greet him welcome to the
> marble benches!

Thank you very much, consul.

CN�SALIX�ASTVR�T�F�A�NEP�TRIB�OVF
PRAETOR

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: darklinks.com
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:44:27 -0600 (CST)

> In message 7196 you write "I do not have any Gothic Pages or Dark
> poetry on my site at all, having no interest in such matters"

Correct. My content is neither "gothic" nor is it "dark poetry".
Outside of references to other sites, the only sense of "gothic"
used on my site is in reference to an architectural style characterized
by spires, buttresses, and pointed arches.

> Is it my computer lingo here?, but I take this to mean there is no
> such content, or links to such content displayed on your primary pages.

You claimed that I said I had no "gothic links". This is not true.
You accused me of "lies" and "miscarriages of truth" based on something
I never wrote.

> You have links to Gothic Chicago and Links to the Darkside. So I am
> hardly misreading the above.

I linked to most sites that linked to me (until there became too many
to keep up with). "Goths" find my photographs interesting. I don't find
their culture interesting - especially the poetry.

> This does not make me a liar.

You called me a liar first, remember.

> That makes me a citizen who asked you a pointed question.

It also makes you a citizen who has repeatedly steered the discussion of
an entirely unrelated topic back towards your pet issue. When there
was a debate over Consul Fabius's appointments, you used that as an
opportunity to attack me. When there was speculation over a plot to
remove Cassius, you used that as an opportunity to attack me. Is
it in your plans to resurrect this subject every two weeks for the
rest of the year?

> Why am I doing this? I've answered that in previous posts.

I believe that you are so embittered over one mistake that I made,
on your day off, that you have decided to destroy my reputation
by any means necessary, through repeatedly bringing your favorite
issue to the foreground whenever there is debate about a completely
unrelated topic, and to make vague and unprovable insinuations
against me at every opportunity, in order to keep me constantly
on the defensive.

What's next? Will a debate about the accuracy of "The October Horse"
lead you into another irrelevant tirade against Octavius?

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Just wanting to beg for votes for 8th Quaestor, that's all! :-)
From:	"William Rogers <wlr107@yahoo.com>" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:25:11 -0000

Gentle people,

It is I, Publius Tarquitius Rufus once again! :-) I wish to make it
known that I am running for Quaestor, and I would greatly appreciate
your vote!

If there is any question you wish to pose to me, please let me know,
I shall gladly answer it for you!

I shall be visiting with my Pater this evening, but if you would like
to speak to me on the phone, and you are in the Atlanta, GA area,
please feel to page me at: (770) 247-1639.

If there is anything I can to to enlighten you as to why you should
vote for me...hee hee...just drop me a line! :-)

There are two honorable individuals running also, and let us not
speak ill of each other...just PLEASE get out and vote! (Hopefully
for me, but hey...PLEASE VOTE!)

Sincerely,

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Congratulations and Thank you
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:50:34 -0000

Salve,

I wish to extend my personal congratulations to both Decius Iunius
Palladius Invictus and Gnaeus Salix Astur on their election as
Praetors. To Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, I offer my sympathies. I know
how it is to lose an election.

I'd like to publically thank my fellow rogators Renata Corva
Cantrix, Aulus Hirtius Helveticus, and Gallio Velius Marsallas for
being a wonderfully supportive group to work with. I'd like to offer
a special thank you to Julilla Sempronia Magna for her efforts to
ensure that we took office armed with the knowledge we needed so our
first election would run smoothly.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Pompeia v Octavius
From:	"pompeia_cornelia <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>" <scriba_forum@hotmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:18:06 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<equitius_marinus@y...>" <equitius_marinus@y...> wrote:
> My friend of long standing, Pompeia Cornelia, writes:
>
> > He doesn't know Agorius. Cool.
>
> *sigh*
>
> Po, from where I watch it looks like you're obsessed with this.
> I have the impression that you're convinced Octavius is either
> a liar or a deceiver, and therefore unfit for duty. While I'm
> sure you arrived at this conclusion by what seems like rational
> thought processes to you, I just don't see it.

Pompeia: Thank you for your diagnosis :) Hey, thought you were a
marine, not a shrink :0 Ahh....you're moonlighting, right?
>
> Marcus Octavius is a good man and a good magistrate. He supported
> Agorius because he (Octavius) believes passionately in the idea
> that freedom of expression is a fundamental human right. I know
> this with absolute certainty.

Pompeia: Marinus. I know you love Octavius and you mean well.
Have you read the list guidelines? Complete and unbridled freedom of
speech is not in there. It was there for Agnorius, but not by the
word of the list guidelines. All I know is that they were defied in
favour of Agorius. Equitius, amicus, it doesn't make sense that
complete freedom of expression is in the list guidelines when such
liberties are not even part of the Yahoo Groups Use Policies (except
of course when it's convenient for Yahoo!)

Octavius interfaced either his own personal convictions and/or
perhaps United States laws, not all of which are pertinent to the
list guidelines of Nova Roma. As I have pointed out in the past, a
few countries have anti-hate legislation, to prevent large-scale hate
being heaped on large numbers of persons, to disasterous ends.

That he did this is a 'fact'. It isn't anything "I" did to him to
assassinate his character. He defied the law as I see it, to the
unhappiness and dissatisfaction of more than just me.

And these same guidelines, (an Edictum Equitius, not a Martha Stewart
list of shoulds and shouldnts) are suddenly 'ok' when the debate is
called to a halt some week to ten days later. Vetoed, then unvetoed.
Had to shake my head there. One minute we have unbridled freedom of
speech, and the next, the guidelines are being quoted like they were
part of the twelve tables.

I am sorry, but 'no', I am not happy about it, but if I see my Senior
Consul now Censor and Agorius cyberlinked, I am going to ask about
it, in light of the law recently being defied for this boy's benefit.

How are we supposed to grow when we allow people coming in here to
berate our citizens, taking cheap shots at their religious beliefs.
What's next, various races of people being tagged? I thought we were
attempting to move away from this.
>
> Pompeia, you and I have exchanged private e-mail on this topic
> in the past few months. You know my feelings on the matter.
> I understand and appreciate your feelings of loss and of being
> hung out to dry. But please, let this go. If you just can't
> let it go, then let me or other of your friends work this out
> between you and Octavius to both of your satisfaction in some
> less public way. If you can't do either of those, then maybe
> you should just start signing every post you make with "... and
> furthermore Octavius must be destroyed."

Pompeia: And maybe I could send Octavius a Tshirt that Says "Pompeia
Nefasti est" as a souvenir I have already been destroyed so "Dilenda
est" is inappropriate (grin). I care for you very, very much
Equitius, but please do not belittle this. I can see this being used
as a weapon in the future. The only darned problem is, this weapon
doesn't fire like a pilum or a catapult. It sets off several little
bullets, like a shotgun, wounding many people, when perhaps, one is
only being targeted.
>
> I say that last half in jest and full earnest, because it seems
> to me that you're being overwhelmed with bitterness by the
> rancor you feel toward Octavius. It's sad for me to watch, and
> detracts from the collective dignitas of our Republic.

Pompeia: Well, if there is 'one' thing that is favourable that comes
out of this I hope it includes the following:

***stricter enforcement of the list guidelines by magistrates tending
the list higher than the Praetor

***booting out the nonpractitioners after the policies of the
republic and the website have been changed. Call a spade a spade, to
wit 'you probably will not feel like you belong here". Perhaps the
collegium could look at this, jot down a few lines and have the
Senate and comitia look at this.

It would also save the agony of having felt as though you belong here
for nearly three years (my personal rant here), only to have it made
abundantly clear in a series of days, that you can be 'hung out to
dry' pretty quickly as far as your rights go.

Damned. If I knew this dude was a Goth I could have stated that he
was berating our Pontiffs and asked him to leave the list for a few
days. But he postulated himself as practitioner. He treated Fabius
Maximus and even Marcus Cassius as though they didn't have two clues
to rub together.

No, I am upset that this issue is being swept under the rug. That it
will continue to happen 'in the name of freedom of speech', perhaps
when 'convenient', and more people will end up getting hurt.

Who suffers most? I should think the Roman Pantheon....the very
reason we are supposed to be here....to promote either the Religio,
or the virtues, culture, history, which eminated from the spiritual
beliefs of the ancients.

If I was doing this strictly to garner an apology from Octavius
Censor, I shall surely wait a long time. No. I hope this is the
last time such a senseless and cheap delivery of justice is executed,
in the name of Rome and her Gods...and any other benevolent deity,
for that matter.

And no, I am not obcessed, Equiti. But to say that such things do
not affect me is not true either. Indeed they do. Otherwise I would
have no feelings.

Bene valete,
Pompeia

>
> -- Marinus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Pompeia v Octavius
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:35:49 -0500 (EST)

Pompeia;

I am very sorry that you see Octavius as some kind of an evil monster.
I am further extremely sorry that I cannot agree with you, but then we
have disagreed before in regard to the value of some given personages.

Octavius has worked hard for the micronation both in a technicl senss
and in an administrative one. He has served the micronation well and
completely, and in my estimation he has demonstrated both a great
patience with those who have placed obstructions in his way, and for
those who have publicly insulted him. Both of which I am afraid he has
done in a much better manner than I am capable of.

I am convinced that he has the best interest of Nova Roma at heart, and
those who have worked more closely than I have with him, I fully respect
in thier turn. In my view thi says much more than my mere lone
comments. He has worked closely with the Senate, few of which have
anything negative to say in his regard, and he has also worked closely
with others in Nova Roma, who are equally important in her
admiistration, who can do so wihout a striden or even a moderated
criticism.

I have met Octavius face to face, and I like what I have seen. He is a
thoughtful, quiet, reasonable individual, who chooses to listen
carefully and choose his responses appropriately. He deserves, to my
mind, the respect and appreciation of all of the Citizens of Nova Roma.

It is obvious that you do not agree, and so I would appeal to you, that
you would be agreeable to settling this matter in a more peaceful and
less problamatic way, than making strong accusations against him on the
Main List. Marinus has generously offered to mediate your mutaul
considerations, as you may see them, and I offer my assistance as well,
if so desired.

But I ask that you would please consider taking your argument off the
Main List and pursue it in a more private manner. The accusations that
you level at Octavius I find to be most unfortunate, and fly in the face
of my experience, and the obvious experience of many others who have
been closly associated with him. Further, my personal involvement with
Octavius, my lengthy discussions wih him, and our mutually reached
decisions over a long period of time, reveal to me nothing of the
aspects of your comments about him.

I am frankly very much surprised, at your obvious dislike of Octavius in
light of what he has accmplished, under very difficult circumstances for
Nova Roma, together with your continuous return to an unfortunate
chapter of your experience here in Nova Roma. There are many of us who
have endured far worse experiences here, and have gone on to bigger and
better things. I would ask that you would also consider doing something
similar.

I write this message out of both my extensive concern and respect for
the accomplishments of both yourself and ProConsul Octavius.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pompeia v Octavius
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:36:10 -0600 (CST)

Salve Pompeia,

> All I know is that they were defied in favour of Agorius.

And in favor of Nerva, and Sicinius, and Quintus Fabius, and
everyone else who spoke against Agorius with equal rancor. There
was no favoritism.

> Octavius interfaced either his own personal convictions and/or
> perhaps United States laws,

I had forgotten your earlier edict, and was far too busy at work that day
to look for it. In the absence of specific instructions, I did what I
thought right.

> And these same guidelines, (an Edictum Equitius, not a Martha Stewart
> list of shoulds and shouldnts) are suddenly 'ok' when the debate is
> called to a halt some week to ten days later.

By then, I was no longer actively moderating the list. I did so only
on the day you were gone, because you had asked me to.

> I am sorry, but 'no', I am not happy about it, but if I see my Senior
> Consul now Censor and Agorius cyberlinked, I am going to ask about
> it, in light of the law recently being defied for this boy's benefit.

This "cyberlinking" was no more than us both in a directory of 11,000
sites; no more a linkage than you are linked to the spammers and
pedophiles who use your mail server.

> How are we supposed to grow when we allow people coming in here to
> berate our citizens, taking cheap shots at their religious beliefs.

How are we supposed to grow when we kick out anyone for voicing an
unpopular opinion?

> What's next, various races of people being tagged?

If anyone tries that, they should be shouted down by the opposition,
not simply silenced immediately.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Congratulations and Thank you (correction)
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:42:45 -0000

Salve,

It has come to my attention that I meant to write Marcus Arminius
Maior, not Gnaeus Equitus Marinus. My humble apologies to Marcus
Arminius Maior, who does indeed have my sympathies on his election
loss. If Gnaeus Equitus Marinus should run for office in the future
and lose, he can consider this my sympathies in advance. <GRIN>.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

P.S. Now about those coffee rules, Renata, I think that I may have
to double the dosage!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus
<richmal@a...>" <richmal@a...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I wish to extend my personal congratulations to both Decius Iunius
> Palladius Invictus and Gnaeus Salix Astur on their election as
> Praetors. To Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, I offer my sympathies. I
know
> how it is to lose an election.
>
> I'd like to publically thank my fellow rogators Renata Corva
> Cantrix, Aulus Hirtius Helveticus, and Gallio Velius Marsallas for
> being a wonderfully supportive group to work with. I'd like to
offer
> a special thank you to Julilla Sempronia Magna for her efforts to
> ensure that we took office armed with the knowledge we needed so
our
> first election would run smoothly.
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Pompeia v Octavius -> An opinion, and Idea.
From:	"William Rogers <wlr107@yahoo.com>" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:23:20 -0000

Salve Pompeia, Octavius, et all,

I am still "wet behind the ears" here at Nova Roma, but already I
must admit I have seen several individuals whom I GREATLY respect
tearing at each other over some items which I am sure I don't have
all the facts.

For me, a new citizen, it has caused me physical pain today as I read
the notes. When I was trying to first join Pompeia was kind, open and
honest with me on how to correct a difficulty in joining a gens.
Equitius and a couple others, with Pompeia, showed me the correct
path, and I can honestly say I have a WONDERFUL gens and Pater
(Shameless plug for the Tarquitius gens...how many Paters are cooking
you dinner tonight? Mine is! :-) Lucky me, thanks Pompeia, Equitius!)

Now, here I am. A bit confused, certainly losing my naivity (I just
KNOW I misspelled THAT word!) as to how politics goes here at Nova
Roma. Brutal, viscious, hurtful bunch. Not everyone, I'm sure, but
MAN some anger here! I was not involved, don't have all the facts,
don't need or want them. Period. A good woman left her post due to
her views, and I respect that, always will. It's done, and cannot be
changed now, so I ask, WHY BOTHER WITH SOMETHING THAT HAS PASSED
BEFORE? AND PLEASE REFRAIN FROM GOING BACK TO IT!

The religious arguement was surely heated! I was a member less than a
two weeks when THAT baby fired up! But you know what? THIS forum was
the WRONG venue for that particular discussion.

I realize this might cost me ANY hope of ever getting elected, but
the Gods will be done. Can we please take this to a mediator, and see
if there is SOME way to go past this? Both of these people are good,
honest, hard-working people, who's hearts, minds, and talents are in
the right place, but they are going diffrent paths to get there. For
me, this goes back to my basic view:

Let us FOCUS on what we can do to make this a "REAL" way of life, not
just on a e-mail board. FOCUS our talents, minds, souls, hearts, and
wills to the MANY, various tasks we have ahead of us.

Not everyone can or will get along, no matter WHAT we want. I am not
recommending we kick anyone out, or anything like that. Certainly
not! That would be cutting off your leg and then trying to walk...not
my bag at all.

How about we try this...let's go back to November or early december
and take a longer, much more serious look at the "colony" discussion.
I think that was a GREAT idea, which got lost in the arguments!

If you wish, as usual, PLEASE feel free to e-mail me direct, and I
shall GLADLY discuss it with you! Or, if you prefer, call me at home!
(E-mail me a day or so ahead of time, so I can be sure to be there!)
My home number is: 770-993-5314.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] *Now Accepting* New Website Design Ideas
From:	"Spurius Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:59:04 -0500

<Forwarded from the Lacus Magni list>

Sp. Postumius Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete,

Ex Officio Retiari...

After much internal debate, prompted by a number of persons, both within and without Nova Roma, I have finally decided that it is
time to re-design the Lacus Magni provincial website. That said, myself being idea-less, I come to you, my good constituents, for
ideas. I'm willing to take into consideration any ideas you may have.

For those of you who wish to offer ideas, you may contact me through this list, or privately at either p o s t u m i u s @ n o v a r
o m a . o r g _or_ p o s t u m i u s @ g m x . n e t.

Optime Valete,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus,
Retiarius and Citizen of Nova Roma

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