Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:21:13 -0500

Salve,



*lol* simple, because it’s my domain name! ~_^ I’m a Japanese anime
(animation) fan, and I have been using the screen name “shinjikun” (a
character from a favorite series of mine) for years. When I volunteered
to create a new Nova Britannia website, I just parked it on my existing
domain.



Vale,



C. Minucius Hadrianus



-----Original Message-----
From: Titus Arminius Genialis [mailto:tagenialis@yahoo.com.br]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:48 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!



Salvete.

Just one question I can't take off my mind.
Why is Nova Britannia Website's domain "shinjikun.com"???

Valete.

________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@yahoo.com.br
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Adrian Gunn [mailto:shinjikun@shinjikun.com]
Enviada em: sábado, 25 de janeiro de 2003 23:31
Para: Novaroma; NovaBritannia
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!


Salvete,

Thanks to the excellent advice of Julilla Sempronia Magna and
Franciscus
Apulus Caesar, ver 1.02 of the Nova Britannia website is up.

www.shinjikun.com

Thank you for the help!

Also, any citizens who have some photos they would like to see in the
Provincial Photo gallery please contact me.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
“Our native land is the common parent of us all.” - Cicero

Subject:	RES: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!
From:	"Titus Arminius Genialis" <tagenialis@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:21:10 -0200

Salve.

lol....
thanks! :^)

Vale.

________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@yahoo.com.br
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Adrian Gunn [mailto:shinjikun@shinjikun.com]
Enviada em: domingo, 26 de janeiro de 2003 22:21
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!


Salve,



*lol* simple, because it’s my domain name! ~_^ I’m a Japanese anime
(animation) fan, and I have been using the screen name “shinjikun” (a
character from a favorite series of mine) for years. When I volunteered
to create a new Nova Britannia website, I just parked it on my existing
domain.



Vale,



C. Minucius Hadrianus



-----Original Message-----
From: Titus Arminius Genialis [mailto:tagenialis@yahoo.com.br]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:48 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!



Salvete.

Just one question I can't take off my mind.
Why is Nova Britannia Website's domain "shinjikun.com"???

Valete.

________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@yahoo.com.br
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Adrian Gunn [mailto:shinjikun@shinjikun.com]
Enviada em: sábado, 25 de janeiro de 2003 23:31
Para: Novaroma; NovaBritannia
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!


Salvete,

Thanks to the excellent advice of Julilla Sempronia Magna and
Franciscus
Apulus Caesar, ver 1.02 of the Nova Britannia website is up.

www.shinjikun.com

Thank you for the help!

Also, any citizens who have some photos they would like to see in the
Provincial Photo gallery please contact me.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
“Our native land is the common parent of us all.” - Cicero

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Eagle
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:53:09 -0600

I'm trying to send my article to The Eagle, but it keeps getting bounced. To Gallagher. Whats up?







The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:12:39 -0500

Salve,



I certainly don't mind - I'm thrilled at all of the excellent advice and
support I have been getting from my fellow civies! I upped the
compression level as you suggested, so it should be all set now. I'd
love to be able to check the site out in a wide variety of browsers, but
unfortunately, as a typical Windows drone, I've only got MS Explorer.
(BTW If anyone else out there uses other browsers, I'd appreciate any
feedback regarding how the site appears.)



Thanks for the help!



Vale,



C. Minucius Hadrianus



-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:ben@callahans.org]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:20 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!



On Sun, Jan 26, 2003 at 03:20:34AM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus
<richmal@attbi.com> wrote:

Salve,

I'll add a little technical advice, if you don't mind: one of the rules
of thumb of web design is to keep individual images at 50kB or under
(larger images are usually thumbnailed), and your top nav bar is over
80kB - since I often use a slow and expensive wireless link these days,
I notice things like that. :)

Increasing the JPG compression by 10%, which doesn't seem to change it
visually (at 1280x1024, anyway) brings the image to under 29kB; 20%
results in 19kB, with very slight compression artefacts.

Also, frames aren't considered a particularly great design technique
anymore... but I think of that as a personal preference more than a
rule.

Oh, and Netscape shows the Cicero quote just fine - although you might
want to check it out in several other browsers (I usually use Netscape,
Mozilla, Konqueror, Dillo, lynx, and w3m as my test suite.)

Otherwise, nice clean look. Pretty much what I strive for in my own
pages.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Faber est suae quisque fortunae.
Every man is the artisan of his own fortune.
-- Appius Claudius Caecus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Rhine River Patrol, Part 2, A Meeting
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Sun, 26 Jan 2003 21:14:56 -0500 (EST)

Curator Differum Tiberius;

In response to your request that I send the subject document to you
again, this I have done four times. Each time it is returned to me with
the notification that it cannot be delivered to:

spqr173@hotmail.men.com

This however is not the address hat I have used, but rather I have used
the address:

spqr173@msn.com

on all four occasions. In addition, you have indicated to me that I
should remove ",COM" from your address, but since this is the address
that you have used (spqr173@msn.com), and since my hardware tells me
that without ".COM" your address is incorrect, I do not understand your
instructions.

The subject document has been provided to the Sodalitas Militarium List
and is there should you wish to copy and use it in "Eagle." It is
apparent afer four tries that you cannot recieve any E-Mail from me, and
further that the server that serves you has your address mixed up.

For the next month's Eagle , I will be pleased to mail you the document
by "Snail Mail" until this problem is cleared up. Your E-Mail address
is the only return problem that I have encountered so far on the web.

My apology for contacting you in this way, but I had asked for your
phone number previously in case of such a problem, but it was not
forthcoming.

Regretfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Senate Call
From:	"rexmarciusnr <RexMarcius@aol.com>" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 02:56:57 -0000

Salvete cives Novae Romae!

Last week, the Senate was called to order by the
Senior Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.

For the information of the people, here is a brief
version of the Senate agenda.

The Schedule will be:

Formal debate shall begin at 23.59 Roman time Saturday 25 January

Voting shall begin at 23.59 Roman time Wednesday 29 January.

Voting shall end at 23.59 Roman time Friday 31 January


Agenda

Item I:

The date of the Feriae Latinae for this year is to be set as April
28th. April 29th and 30th shall be dies religiosi.

Item II.

Approval of the Revised Budget.

Item III.

The appointments of Propraetor of America Boreoccidentalis and
Propraetor of America Mediatlantica.

Item IV.

Statement of Nova Roma as organization for the public benefit.

Item V.

Deadline for taxation to be changed to the last day of April.

Item VI.

Support of the community of Rosia Montana, the
Roman Alburnus Maior according to the proposal of Manius
Constantinus Serapio and that the Consuls are given the task to see
to that this decision is executed.

Avete et Valete

Marcus Marcius Rex
Tribune of the Plebs


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Forum Romanum
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:23:41 -0500

Salve Romans

If any of you go to the Forum Romanum Web site and have not been there in a couple of days GO BACK they have completely redone it. IT IS GREAT!!!!!!

http://www.geocities.com/~stilicho/index.html


Also if any of you have the time and talents they need help with translations of ancient works in to modern languages

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Reminder: SAVE ALBURNUS MAIOR!!!
From:	Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 01:46:50 -0800 (PST)

§A gold mine threatens a great archaeological site§

A Canadian firm, Gabriel Resources, will open a gold,
silver and uranium mine which will destroy several
important archaeological sites in Romania. The choosen
place for what will be the biggest European opencast
mine is Rosia Montana, the Roman Alburnus Maior, on
the Apuseni mountains.

The mining activity in this area is thousands of years
old. Several mines of the II century B.C. can still be
partly travelled over.

Besides iron ores, Rosia Montana is famous in European
archaeology because of epigraphical evidence found
there. Just two year ago, a Frech-German team
discovered funeral steles and a large number of Roman
altars with votive inscriptions.

The Canadian project even provides for the complete
destruction of the actual center (which will be
re-built elsewhere...) with its monuments (eight
churches and nine graveyards) and its archaeological
strata.
Here they will settle one of the four shafts provided
for.

The Rosia Montana valley is part of the national
protected Property. An international campaign is
underway to save the ancient evidences of that area.
This campaign involves Rumanian archaeologists like
Gheorghe Lazarovici (Univesrity of Cluj), Marius Ciuta
(University of Alba Iulia), Sabin Luca (University of
Sibiu). The mobilization culminated with an appeal to
the highest national authorities by 83 academics of
the Academy of Economic Studies of the University of
Bucarest, in order to stop this operation. In fact,
according to a close examination, this project would
not even provide the populace
with relevant economic advantages.

The World Bank has already announced, through the
International Finance Corporation (IFC), that they
will not finance the project of the Gabriel Resources:
James Wohfensohn, the president of the World Bank,
intervened directly to block the loan.

The gold of this area of the Carpathians has been
mined and traded in the whole of Europe since
prehistory. Trajan's column shows the Roman occupation
of the Apuseni mountains. It was a conquest which led
to Rome so much gold that its price was depressed for
decades. Even with this depreciated price the sheer
amount of gold provided for the financing of ambitious
projects like the construction of the amphitheatre in
Verona.

The project of Gabriel Resources provides for the
forced transfer of 2,000 people: most of them are
actually employed in more than 700 farms. Production
processes using cyanide, which has already
caused a lot of ecological disasters, and which are
illegal in the rest of Europe, are proposed. Just
consider that about 196.4 million tons of cyanide
waste will be created. A real ecological predicament
is
looming, and unfortunately it would not be something
new in Romania. In fact, with the same mining process
in another mine in Baia Mare, water for 2,500,000
people was contaminated.

For further information go to
http://www.rosiamontana.org

What we ask you is to simply sign this petition to the
Government of Romania:
http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html

Please do that! It's very important! We must try to do
our best to assist in saving Alburnus Maior and
avoiding this ecological catastrophe!

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Today honors the Dioscuri
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 06:07:07 -0500

Gaius Miunucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Today is sacred to the Dioscuri, the twin sons of Iupiter and Leda,
Castor and Pollux. I would like to offer this Hymn of Homer, sung in
their honor:

To the Dioscuri:

"Sing, clear-voiced Muse, of Castor and Polydeuces (Pollux), the
Tyndaridae, who sprang from Olympian Zeus. Beneath the heights
fo Taygetus stately Leda bare them, when the dark-clouded Son of
Cronos had privily bent her to his will.

Hail, children of Tyndareus, riders upon swift horses!"

Let every follower of the Religio offer thanks to the saviors of sailors
and soldiers, protectors of Rome.

Bene Valete in pace Deorum,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
 
Patria est communis omnium parens.
“Our native land is the common parent of us all.” - Cicero



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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Plebs really the majority?
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:56:19 +0100

Salve Cordus,

> I'd be interested to know, actually, whether active
>plebeians actually do outnumber active patricians by
>any substantial margin, or indeed at all.

I am also wondering what the ratio between active patricians and active
plebeians is. When I went through the archives of the ComitiaPlebis Tributa
list yesterday, I found that about 30 percent of the postings were actually
from patricians. So without malice, I unsubscribed the patricians that were
on the list. As far as content goes, in most cases, the posts were in
response to one argument or another taking place on the main list. I will be
writing some list guidelines, etc. so that in the future, this can be a
practical list for the Plebeians rather than just another place to drag an
argument :-p

>No doubt we'll have to wait for the census to tell us
<definitively, but has anyone any indicative evidence
<or experience?
On the Album Gentium, Gallia has 54 citizens, yet on the provincial mailing
there are only 6 citizens from Gallia. I wanted to invite all of them to the
meeting that I had on Saturday, so I personally emailed the remaining 48
citizens. I did not receive any responses. Assuming that there are a few
Provincia Gallia citizens that for one reason or another just aren't
subscribed to the Gallia list, I still wouldn't count on more than 12 active
citizens. If we use the same ratio throughout NR, this leaves less than 25%
of our citizens as active. So at this point I have no idea what the active
ratio between Patricians and Plebeians is.

A census is regularly brought up here. I've always wondered why we don't
begin with an email census. It may not be perfectly accurate, but it would
be a start and it wouldn't cost us anything but time.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Rudius Inscription
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:37:52 -0500

Victor was usually carved on the rudis.

F. Gal Aur Sec

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:45:08 -0300 (ART)

Salve

--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@pandora.be>
escreveu: > Salve Cordus,
>
> > I'd be interested to know, actually, whether
> active
> >plebeians actually do outnumber active patricians
> by
> >any substantial margin, or indeed at all.
>
> I am also wondering what the ratio between active
> patricians and active
> plebeians is.
[..]
> A census is regularly brought up here. I've always
> wondered why we don't
> begin with an email census. It may not be perfectly
> accurate, but it would
> be a start and it wouldn't cost us anything but
> time.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia Aventina


A little about Nova-Roman demography...

According to the Album Civium (25.jan.2756), Nova Roma
has 1698 cives, which 541 are patricians (31,9%) and
1157 plebeians (68,1%).

I dont have access to an easy way to count the number
of Adsidui and Capite Censi; but in the last two
years, the patrician population grew faster that the
plebeian one.
The table below reflects shows how our population is
growing:

date pat pleb total
01jan54 169 (27%) 446 (73%) 615
01jan55 355 (30%) 810 (70%) 1165
01jan56 534 (32%) 1142 (68%) 1676

So, in the last year, Nova Roma gained 511 new cives,
and 179 (35%) of them was patricians. That is, with a
census, is possible that the proportion of patricians
grow a bit more.

However, if we have the numbers of adsidui and capite
censi, we can have a better idea of the amount of
active citizens.


Marcus Arminius Maior
censorial scribe


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] NR Demographics II. (was:Plebs really the majority?)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:51:23 -0300 (ART)

Salve

--- Gaius Marius Merullus <c_marius_m@novaroma.org>
escreveu: > Salvete A Apolloni et alii
[..]
> The good news for me, since we're on the subject of
> demographics, is that
> the plebeian order is in the majority and growing in
> a more cohesive fashion
> than it was 3 years ago. That is, going back that
> far in the past, the
> plebeian order consisted almost exclusivley of
> single and couple gentes;
> whereas it now has several larger, even 10+ member
> gentes.
>
> Valete
> C Marius Merullus
> patrician


And a bit more demographical data...

According to the Album Gentium, Nova Roma has 411
gentes, 30 patrician and 381 plebeians; 100 of this
gentes are closed (that is, the paterfamiliares didnt
answer).

Of the 30 patrician gens, 5 are closed, so 83% are
active; and of the 381 plebeian gens, 95 are closed,
so 75% are active.

Of all the 411 gentes, 200 (48,7%) are simple, that
is, with one sole member.

Of the 30 patrician gentes, 3 (10%) are simple; and of
the 381 plebeian gentes, 197 (51,7%) are simple.

The 5 biggest gentes are patrician,
Of the 30 biggest gentes, 15 are patrician.


Vale
Marcus Arminius

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate Call
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:12:03 -0600

Ave Tribune!

keep up the good work!









The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: rexmarciusnr <RexMarcius@aol.com>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 8:56 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Senate Call


Salvete cives Novae Romae!

Last week, the Senate was called to order by the
Senior Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.

For the information of the people, here is a brief
version of the Senate agenda.

The Schedule will be:

Formal debate shall begin at 23.59 Roman time Saturday 25 January

Voting shall begin at 23.59 Roman time Wednesday 29 January.

Voting shall end at 23.59 Roman time Friday 31 January


Agenda

Item I:

The date of the Feriae Latinae for this year is to be set as April
28th. April 29th and 30th shall be dies religiosi.

Item II.

Approval of the Revised Budget.

Item III.

The appointments of Propraetor of America Boreoccidentalis and
Propraetor of America Mediatlantica.

Item IV.

Statement of Nova Roma as organization for the public benefit.

Item V.

Deadline for taxation to be changed to the last day of April.

Item VI.

Support of the community of Rosia Montana, the
Roman Alburnus Maior according to the proposal of Manius
Constantinus Serapio and that the Consuls are given the task to see
to that this decision is executed.

Avete et Valete

Marcus Marcius Rex
Tribune of the Plebs

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:55:46 -0600 (CST)

Salve Senator Armini,

> I dont have access to an easy way to count the number
> of Adsidui and Capite Censi; but in the last two
> years, the patrician population grew faster that the
> plebeian one.

novaroma=# select count(id),patrician,citizen_type from cives
where status=0 group by patrician,citizen_type;

count | patrician | citizen_type
-------+-----------+--------------
PLEBEIAN:
25 | 0 | 1 minor
684 | 0 | 2 cap. censi
359 | 0 | 3 assidui/new
89 | 0 | 4 assidui/paid
PATRICIAN:
19 | 1 | 1 minor
259 | 1 | 2 cap. censi
185 | 1 | 3 assidui/new
78 | 1 | 4 assidui/paid

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:40:11 -0800 (PST)

Tubertus--Congratulations! I think you'll be great
with this. :)

---
Renata Corva

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Chat with me?
From:	URCITANUS <urcitanus@terra.es>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:03:47 +0100

Salve,
If anyone wants to chat, I´ll be sitting in the main list chat room for
the next hour (or so)

urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Ivlia A.A. Mvsa <aneaapollonia@aol.com>" <aneaapollonia@aol.com>
Fecha: Domingo, Enero 26, 2003 6:39 pm
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Chat with me?

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salve,
>
> If anyone is interested in chatting, I'll be sitting in the main
> list
>
> chat room. I'll give it about an hour to see if anyone shows up.
>
>
>
> Vale bene,
>
> I.A.A.Musa
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Comitia Populi Tributa Election Results, election of the 8th
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:27:27 +0100

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani


Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Omnibus Civibus Novae Romae SPD,


Comitia Populi Tributa final results in the election of the 8th Quaestor

The results in the Comitia Populi Tributa have been certified by the
Rogatores. The Rogatores have provided the following results: The
total number of votes cast was 117, of which 22were invalid, leaving
95 valid votes in 32 tribes. In one tribe, only an abstention was
cast. Therefore, the candidates had to carry 16 Tribes to win.
.
Tribes where the result was a tie between candidates were assigned
according to law to individual candidates, Ten tribes were decided by
lot and went to Publius Tarquitius Rufus.


Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus: 8 Tribes - 10 12 20 21 22 24 25 30

Caïus Minius Messala Bellator: 3 Tribes - 31 32 33

Publius Tarquitius Rufus: 20 Tribes - 1 2 3 4 5 6
7 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 23 26 27 28 34 35


Publius Tarquitius Rufus is elected Quaestor for MMDCCLVI. According
to the law Publius Tarquitius Rufus can assume the office of Quaestor
the 23th of April 2756 A.U.C. (2003). I will soon discuss his
assignment with himself and one of the higher Magistrate.


Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus and Caïus Minius Messala
Bellator didn't recieve enough support, I thank them for standing for
office.

I extend my thanks to the Rogators for their work, and to all three
candidates for standing for this office.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Chat with me?
From:	"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:41:14 -0000

A reminder to anyone interested in realtime communication, that
there is an official NovaRoma chat site located at

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/chat/chat

Unlike the Yahoo chat utility, which requires Javascript
capability not supported by all browsers, the NR chat site
is quite friendly to a wide variety of browser software.

-- Marinus


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Patricians Out
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:18:11 -0500 (EST)

Diana Moravia Aventina;

While it is perhaps none of my business, and I have never subscribed to
any Plebian List or activity; in my view, I find it unfortunate that you
should see the necessity of unsubscribing Patricians from the "Plebian
List," even "without malice."

As with some others here in Nova Roma I see no real reason for a
"Plebian List" but of course you are quite free to indulge yourself as
you wish. My thought is that by doing so, a wedge is driven between two
groups of people where no wedge need be. It is a well proven fact that
once two groups are separated in any way, that misunderstandings grow
between them out of all proportions to any real concerns. This
phenomenon is enhanced very often by the fact that open communication
between the two groups is no longer available. I, of course, hope that
this concern will not cme to reality, but experience suggests otherwise.

In my Senatorial duties, I serve Patricians and Plebians alike, and
usually have no idea who is who, since I see no reasn to pore over the
various lists determining such. I answer Plebian and Parician alike in
thier queries to me, and ideas, and volunteers generated for my
consideration, are never subjected to that determinatin prior to
selection. In my humble view, we are trying to build a micronation, not
a set of political / social groups, and good ideas regardless of thier
source are valuable. The best ideas, however, may be said to generate
from "piggybacking" one person's ideas resulting from another person's
original concepts. By separating those Patricians who were interested
in discussing various aspects with plebians, you have to some degree
halted that process, and again to some degree have caused the beginning
of some degree of emnity, niether one of which is needed in NR.

Plebians already enjoy a number of privaledges that Patricians do not
enjoy, and even these few differences has to date caused a significant
discussion about the disparities between them. As a former Plebian,
raised to Patrician status for service to the micronation, I feel at
odds to some degree with both groups, on the one hand because of my
beginnings, and on the other because my being a Patrician was the result
of service and not the order in which I joined Nova Roma. As a former
Plebian, I understand the Plebian aspects, but in my view the honor of
raising my anchestor's name to the Patrician class is one to which I
dedicate to my anchestor with pride and enthusiasm. It might seem to
some that Plebians do not recognize that Patrician Status might be
concived as an honor granted for service rather than a position to be
separated from. Such is one of the basis from which this message is
issued.

You may and probably will say that such activities can take place on the
Main List, and you would be correct as far as access is concerned.
However, I wonder, if in fact, such a melding of ideas will continue at
the same rate that it has prior to your somewhat precipitous action.
Such is my concern, and I hope that this comcern is both unjustified and
false, but my experience with people warns me that this message may not
be unnecessary.

In closing, I fully admit that such is no business of mine except in my
personal concern, and you have every right, as far as I know, to conduct
your actions as you see fit, just as long as they do not trample on the
rights of others. I just thought that I should make my concerns known.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:38:48 +0000

----Original Message Follows----
From: M Arminius Maior <marminius@yahoo.com.br>

Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:45:08 -0300 (ART)

...So, in the last year, Nova Roma gained 511 new cives,
and 179 (35%) of them was patricians. That is, with a
census, is possible that the proportion of patricians
grow a bit more...

---------------------------------------------------------------
Salvete

I am surprised. I thought some 80% were Patricians, but 35% is still
much too high anyway. I hope people are not taking this Patrician/Plebeian
division too seriously. Once we're out of the computer that will have to
change. We don't have patrician/plebeian classes unless we want to be a
role playing group.

The Patrician title should be strictly applied to the members of the
Senate alone. That is, to be a patrician you'd have to earn it and now I'll
run for cover.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.





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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Patricians Out
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:21:50 -0800 (PST)

--- MarcusAudens@webtv.net wrote:
> Diana Moravia Aventina;
>
> While it is perhaps none of my business, and I have
> never subscribed to
> any Plebian List or activity; in my view, I find it
> unfortunate that you
> should see the necessity of unsubscribing Patricians
> from the "Plebian
> List," even "without malice."
>
> As with some others here in Nova Roma I see no real
> reason for a
> "Plebian List" but of course you are quite free to
> indulge yourself as
> you wish. My thought is that by doing so, a wedge
> is driven between two
> groups of people where no wedge need be. It is a
> well proven fact that
> once two groups are separated in any way, that
> misunderstandings grow
> between them out of all proportions to any real
> concerns. This
> phenomenon is enhanced very often by the fact that
> open communication
> between the two groups is no longer available. I,
> of course, hope that
> this concern will not cme to reality, but experience
> suggests otherwise.

I Share Senator Audens concern that unsubscribing
Patricians from the List will lead to
misunderstandings between the Orders, though I
Disagree with him over the need for having the list.

The Comitia Plebis Tributa is one of Nova Roma's
Comitae, a Legal body authorized by the Constitution.
The list is in effect the Plebs meeting in thier
assembly overseen by the Tribunes. This is in
accordance with the Laws of Antiquita, and the
Constitution of our Modern Republic. There is a need
for the list.

In Antiquita no Patrician could enter the Comitia or
speak from the Rostra when the Plebs were meeting, so
at first glance it would be correct to bar Patricians
from being members of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
mailing list. As Senator Audens pointed out this can
lead to misunderstandings between the orders.

I Would like to sugest a way around this problem that
is in accord with ancient practices. In Antiquita
Patricians were barred from being present in the
Comitia or speaking in it, but they were allowed to
stand outside the Comitia, say on the steps of the
Senate, and to listen to the debates of the Plebs. We
can recreate this by allowing Patricians to be members
of the list so that they can listen to the debates
"from the Senate Steps", but keep them from taking
part in the debates of the Plebs by placing any
Patrician Subscriber on permanant modarated status.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Comitia Populi Tributa Election Results, election of the 8th Quaestor
From:	"rabotnik@ <rabotnik@wp.pl>" <rabotnik@wp.pl>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:49:50 -0000

Salvete!

My congratulation to the winner Publius Tarquitius Rufus and
i want to sincerely thank all citizens who voted for me :)
Valete bene!
Petrus Domitianus AL


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Omnibus Civibus Novae Romae SPD,
>
>
> Comitia Populi Tributa final results in the election of the 8th
Quaestor
>
> The results in the Comitia Populi Tributa have been certified by
the
> Rogatores. The Rogatores have provided the following results: The
> total number of votes cast was 117, of which 22were invalid,
leaving
> 95 valid votes in 32 tribes. In one tribe, only an abstention was
> cast. Therefore, the candidates had to carry 16 Tribes to win.
> .
> Tribes where the result was a tie between candidates were assigned
> according to law to individual candidates, Ten tribes were decided
by
> lot and went to Publius Tarquitius Rufus.
>
>
> Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus: 8 Tribes - 10 12 20 21 22 24
25 30
>
> Caïus Minius Messala Bellator: 3 Tribes - 31 32 33
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus: 20 Tribes - 1 2 3 4 5 6
> 7 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 23 26 27 28 34 35
>
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus is elected Quaestor for MMDCCLVI.
According
> to the law Publius Tarquitius Rufus can assume the office of
Quaestor
> the 23th of April 2756 A.U.C. (2003). I will soon discuss his
> assignment with himself and one of the higher Magistrate.
>
>
> Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus and Caïus Minius Messala
> Bellator didn't recieve enough support, I thank them for standing
for
> office.
>
> I extend my thanks to the Rogators for their work, and to all three
> candidates for standing for this office.
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
> Propraetor Thules
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> ************************************************
> Cohors Consulis CFQ
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:23:34 EST

In a message dated 1/27/03 12:40:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com writes:


> The Patrician title should be strictly applied to the members of the
> Senate alone. That is, to be a patrician you'd have to earn it and now
> I'll
> run for cover.
>
> Gaius Galerius Peregrinator

I disagree.
Those gens who took part in the formation of NR, should be honored, and
Patrician status is the way that is done.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Rudius Inscription
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:36:36 EST

"Victorious" with the name of the gladiator (See Pompeii graffiti for
examples)

Q. Fabius Maximus
curator Sodalitas Munerum





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Patricians Out
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:49:18 +0000 (GMT)

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

Senator L. Sicinius Drusus wrote (among other things):

> There is a need for the list.
...
> In Antiquita Patricians were barred from being
> present in the Comitia or speaking in it, but they
> were allowed to stand outside the Comitia, say on
> the steps of the Senate, and to listen to the
> debates of the Plebs. We can recreate this by
> allowing Patricians to be members of the list so
> that they can listen to the debates "from the Senate
> Steps", but keep them from taking part in the
> debates of the Plebs by placing any Patrician
> Subscriber on permanant modarated status.

I agree that the list's existence is desirable. Also,
for the benefit of anyone who has never visited it, I
can say from my (admittedly short) experience that
there that virtually no discussion takes place there
except the announcement of elections and other votes -
it's not a hotbed of proletarian agitation! But of
course that doesn't mean it couldn't potentially
foster division, which was Consular Audens' point.

I also like Senator Drusus' suggested solution, but
I'd like to highlight something, while trying to upset
as few people as possible and avoid coming across as a
rabid leveller. Senator Drusus has pointed out that an
important political body (the Plebeian Tribal
Assembly) needs to be able to meet and deliberate
without the intervention of non-members. He has also
pointed out that historically the deliberations of
this body were, though closed to participation from
non-members, open to spectators, and that this seems
desirable in the interests of democratic openness.

Now, these exact same points have been made in the
past regarding the Senate. It, too, is an important
political body which needs to deliberate without
interference. It, too, was historically open to at
least a few spectators, except possibly in some
circumstances. Is it not desirable in the interests of
openness that it, too, should be so in Nova Roma?

The three strongest arguments I've heard against this
idea are that it would be detrimental to the dignity
of the Senate as a whole and possibly of its
individual members; that it would encourage
speechifying and public performance; and that the
Senate might at some times have to debate matters of
sensitivity which would be better kept private.

These are weighty arguments, and ones which are not to
be ignored. However, they can just as easily be
applied to the Plebeian Assembly, particularly the
first, which is to me probably the strongest. It might
be argued that the Senate is more important than the
Plebeian Assembly, and that it discusses more serious
and sensitive matters. I would make two responses:
first, the ultimate sovereignty in Nova Roma rests
with the Assemblies, because these together are the
legislative authorities, and it would hardly be
appropriate to regard one of the Assemblies as less
important that the Senate; and second, if the Senate
is an important body and discusses important issues,
surely all the more reason for its proceedings to be
more open.

Now, I'd like to stress that I'm *not* suggesting that
anyone who wants to should be allowed to subscribe to
the Senate list and watch its meetings even silently.
Nor am I suggesting that the Plebeian Assembly should
be entirely closed. The reason I make this comparison
is to suggest that perhaps the Senate should be a bit
more open (my personaly suggestion would be that the
Tribunes post not only the votes but also a summary of
the arguments which were put forward, without names
attached), and on the other hand that perhaps the
Plebeian Assembly should be a bit more closed that
Senator Drusus suggests (perhaps a small number of
Patrician observers could be admitted, as the Tribunes
are admitted to the Senate).

Anyway, I hope I've provided some food for thought,
and I hope I haven't upset anyone.

Thanks for listening,

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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