Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman Coins
From:	"rexmarciusnr <RexMarcius@aol.com>" <RexMarcius@aol.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:03:08 -0000

Salvete omnes!

I was wondering whether anyone among the Nova Roma populace collects
antique Roman coins. My own collection is still pretty small
and "imperial" in nature but I am quite willing to considerably
enlarge it in the future.

I would be interested to learn more about good English books on the
subject (I have access to some German and French literature) and
reputable Internet dealers. Does anyone have any experience with them?

Avete et Valete

Marcus Marcius Rex

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman programs in February
From:	lanius117@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:45:52 EST

Salvete omnes,

Two television programs in February on The History Channel that cives might
find interesting:

Feb 13 - The True Story of Gladiators - 8:00 PM EST
Feb 23 - Weapons of the Gladiators - 10:30 PM EST

Vale,

GAIVS LANIVS FALCO
Acting Praefectus Sodalitas Egressus, Provincia Britannia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction
From:	"Greg Rothenberger" <gregor59@earthlink.net>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:21:14 -0500

I should be very glad to assist you in any way possible. Did you have
something specific in mind, or something more in the way of general
guidelines? And thanks very much for responding.

M. Stellatinus Gregorius
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:56 PM
To: Nova-Roma
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Salve M. Stellatinus Gregorius and Welcome.

If you have the time and the interest I have a proposition for you. I am
the Editor of the Eagle, our Nova Roma newsletter. Do you have any interest
in writing for Nova Roma's hometown paper? If you do drop me a line and we
can "talk".

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Quaestor et Cohors Aedilis GnEm
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Hello,

I joined Nova Roma some time ago, but due to various personal
constraints was never able to meet any other citizens in my area. I
hope to be able to change that now.

About me: I'm very much interested in seeing Nova Roma increase while
remaining true to its republican ideals. Imperial Rome is so much
more popular in the public view that I tend to be afraid it might
influence NR. I also am interested in music and poetry. I hope to
learn Latin someday well enough to use it conversationally, but am
not anywhere near that point yet. Professionally, I work two jobs:
one for our local public library in computer/internet support, and
another for a national retail chain doing film processing and photo
development. If anyone can see how those might fit in with the needs
of NR, I would be glad to offer my services. I live in the
metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky (USA) area, on the Indiana side of
the river.

Anyway, I would like to suggest some kind of get-together for Nova
Romans in this area. I'd be glad to coordinate it, so I'll throw out
for discussion Cherokee Park in Louisville as a location, and the
Saturday after the Spring equinox as a date. That would be March 22d,
2003. I hope to hear from others who would be interested in something
like that, and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

M. Stellatinus Gregorius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics-response to the lawyer
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:30:55 -0600

That's a great joke! Don't apologize. We like to think of ourselves as "full-service" professionals.

----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics-response to the lawyer

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Gaius Basilicatus Agricola.

Once again, you show you are a lawyer. "Auctoritas of the paterfamilias"--perhaps in theory but not in practice.

Bad Joke Reference-Three men walk into a caupona; a lawyer, a drunk, and a pimp. Oh sorry, that was just the first man.
[JOKE, JOKE!!! Please don't sue me. Whine! Gringe! Curl into the fetal position!]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:32:24 -0500

Salve we like people to write in areas of Roman history ie cooking, politics whatever that is of interest to THEM. What of Rome holds your interest? That is what you can write on . I must say up front that we have a lot of Military history and two people fighting gin the kitchen already. well what are you Roman interests?

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:28 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

I should be very glad to assist you in any way possible. Did you have
something specific in mind, or something more in the way of general
guidelines? And thanks very much for responding.

M. Stellatinus Gregorius
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:56 PM
To: Nova-Roma
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Salve M. Stellatinus Gregorius and Welcome.

If you have the time and the interest I have a proposition for you. I am
the Editor of the Eagle, our Nova Roma newsletter. Do you have any interest
in writing for Nova Roma's hometown paper? If you do drop me a line and we
can "talk".

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Quaestor et Cohors Aedilis GnEm
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Hello,

I joined Nova Roma some time ago, but due to various personal
constraints was never able to meet any other citizens in my area. I
hope to be able to change that now.

About me: I'm very much interested in seeing Nova Roma increase while
remaining true to its republican ideals. Imperial Rome is so much
more popular in the public view that I tend to be afraid it might
influence NR. I also am interested in music and poetry. I hope to
learn Latin someday well enough to use it conversationally, but am
not anywhere near that point yet. Professionally, I work two jobs:
one for our local public library in computer/internet support, and
another for a national retail chain doing film processing and photo
development. If anyone can see how those might fit in with the needs
of NR, I would be glad to offer my services. I live in the
metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky (USA) area, on the Indiana side of
the river.

Anyway, I would like to suggest some kind of get-together for Nova
Romans in this area. I'd be glad to coordinate it, so I'll throw out
for discussion Cherokee Park in Louisville as a location, and the
Saturday after the Spring equinox as a date. That would be March 22d,
2003. I hope to hear from others who would be interested in something
like that, and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

M. Stellatinus Gregorius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:52:41 -0500

In a message dated 1/27/03 7:06:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jlasalle@kc.rr.com writes:

Salve,

> Giving status and privilege to a few simply because they were "first" is
> ludicrous. Such classifications do no good. It was the source of much
> bloodshed, civil war, and destruction during our forefathers' time.
>
> What if all the plebs just got up and left Nova Roma? What would Nova Roma
> be then?

And what if the sky fell in, Samsung stopped producing televisions, and
the price of donuts went up to $50 a dozen? Where would you be *then,*
huh?

There's not much of a point to postulating this kind of scenarios. As
well, your question sounds like a threat - and I seriously doubt that
you want to threaten anyone here; that's a no-win situation.

If such a situation did arise, we have a number of people here, both
plebeian and patrician, who would work to resolve and avoid it; NovaRoma
needs *everyone*, patrician and plebeian, working together in order to
grow, not people attempting to drive a wedge where none should exist.
Also, let me note that status and privilege for those who were first is
pretty much a universal constant in all the cultures with which I'm
familiar. You may not like it, but it's a solid fact.

I belong to a patrician gens - and am very proud of the fact that my
paterfamilias, Marcus Minucius Audens' service was so recognized by
NovaRoma (note that this is _not_ a case of privilege and status for the
"first".) However, I don't believe that my viewpoint would be any
different if my gens was plebeian - as it originally was.

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dictum, factum.
Said and done.
-- Terence, "Heautontimorumenos"

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:36:51 -0600

okey dokey
----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

In a message dated 1/27/03 7:06:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jlasalle@kc.rr.com writes:

Salve,

> Giving status and privilege to a few simply because they were "first" is
> ludicrous. Such classifications do no good. It was the source of much
> bloodshed, civil war, and destruction during our forefathers' time.
>
> What if all the plebs just got up and left Nova Roma? What would Nova Roma
> be then?

And what if the sky fell in, Samsung stopped producing televisions, and
the price of donuts went up to $50 a dozen? Where would you be *then,*
huh?

There's not much of a point to postulating this kind of scenarios. As
well, your question sounds like a threat - and I seriously doubt that
you want to threaten anyone here; that's a no-win situation.

If such a situation did arise, we have a number of people here, both
plebeian and patrician, who would work to resolve and avoid it; NovaRoma
needs *everyone*, patrician and plebeian, working together in order to
grow, not people attempting to drive a wedge where none should exist.
Also, let me note that status and privilege for those who were first is
pretty much a universal constant in all the cultures with which I'm
familiar. You may not like it, but it's a solid fact.

I belong to a patrician gens - and am very proud of the fact that my
paterfamilias, Marcus Minucius Audens' service was so recognized by
NovaRoma (note that this is _not_ a case of privilege and status for the
"first".) However, I don't believe that my viewpoint would be any
different if my gens was plebeian - as it originally was.

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dictum, factum.
Said and done.
-- Terence, "Heautontimorumenos"


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:37:45 -0600

I'd like to see an article on Roman lawyer pimps. Who got drunk a lot.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Salve we like people to write in areas of Roman history ie cooking, politics whatever that is of interest to THEM. What of Rome holds your interest? That is what you can write on . I must say up front that we have a lot of Military history and two people fighting gin the kitchen already. well what are you Roman interests?

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:28 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

I should be very glad to assist you in any way possible. Did you have
something specific in mind, or something more in the way of general
guidelines? And thanks very much for responding.

M. Stellatinus Gregorius
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:56 PM
To: Nova-Roma
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Salve M. Stellatinus Gregorius and Welcome.

If you have the time and the interest I have a proposition for you. I am
the Editor of the Eagle, our Nova Roma newsletter. Do you have any interest
in writing for Nova Roma's hometown paper? If you do drop me a line and we
can "talk".

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Quaestor et Cohors Aedilis GnEm
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Hello,

I joined Nova Roma some time ago, but due to various personal
constraints was never able to meet any other citizens in my area. I
hope to be able to change that now.

About me: I'm very much interested in seeing Nova Roma increase while
remaining true to its republican ideals. Imperial Rome is so much
more popular in the public view that I tend to be afraid it might
influence NR. I also am interested in music and poetry. I hope to
learn Latin someday well enough to use it conversationally, but am
not anywhere near that point yet. Professionally, I work two jobs:
one for our local public library in computer/internet support, and
another for a national retail chain doing film processing and photo
development. If anyone can see how those might fit in with the needs
of NR, I would be glad to offer my services. I live in the
metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky (USA) area, on the Indiana side of
the river.

Anyway, I would like to suggest some kind of get-together for Nova
Romans in this area. I'd be glad to coordinate it, so I'll throw out
for discussion Cherokee Park in Louisville as a location, and the
Saturday after the Spring equinox as a date. That would be March 22d,
2003. I hope to hear from others who would be interested in something
like that, and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

M. Stellatinus Gregorius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600

http://www.cvrlab.org/

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:49:52 +0000

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600

http://www.cvrlab.org/

------------------------------------------------------------
Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	"Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:51:00 +0100

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@kc.rr.com]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> okey dokey

Hilarious.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:53:22 -0600

I really like the QT Model section. This is a great
site.

Sextus Cornelius Cotta

--
Mac OSX iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
YahooMsgr: iguard2

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:55:04 +0000

Hey, glad to see you're still around, I was wondering whatever happened
to you.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:51:00 +0100

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@kc.rr.com]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> okey dokey

Hilarious.

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:56:25 -0500

Salve if you click the one named Forum Romanum is't the building on the left the Senate house?

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:50 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600

http://www.cvrlab.org/

------------------------------------------------------------
Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:05:42 +0000

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:56:25 -0500

Salve if you click the one named Forum Romanum is't the building on the
left the Senate house?

-------------------------------------------------------------

Somehow I always thought of it as a simple building. My facts are all
messed up. It must be television, and that's why I got rid of it. I think
its ruins are still standing, do we know how the inside looked like? Are
there any description, or we have to settle with what Hollywood portrayed it
to be.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	"Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:06:01 +0100

That is so much to say (in regard to this thread): witness farcical
thespian solemnity bandy with provincial plainness; the fool will always
have at the truth.

Behold the natural philosopher, how he comports himself against the
enforc�d ceremony of ressentiment.

Pitrinius

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis [mailto:pitrinius@mitdasein.com]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:51
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@kc.rr.com]
> > Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > the majority?)
> >
> >
> > okey dokey
>
> Hilarious.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	"Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:08:10 +0100

Oh: it was you with whom I shared some good threads during winter break
when a meditative hush prevailed!

How goes it, man?

Well met.

Pitrinius

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator [mailto:gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:55
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> Hey, glad to see you're still around, I was wondering
> whatever happened
> to you.
>
> Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com>
> Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:51:00 +0100
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@kc.rr.com]
> > Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > the majority?)
> >
> >
> > okey dokey
>
> Hilarious.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	"Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:23:44 +0100

PS. That was a hideous intrusion of majuscules which took place in
January; I'm glad the worst is over.

Pitrinius

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis [mailto:pitrinius@mitdasein.com]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 07:08
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> Oh: it was you with whom I shared some good threads during
> winter break
> when a meditative hush prevailed!
>
> How goes it, man?
>
> Well met.
>
> Pitrinius
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
> [mailto:gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:55
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > the majority?)
> >
> >
> > Hey, glad to see you're still around, I was wondering
> > whatever happened
> > to you.
> >
> > Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com>
> > Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > the majority?)
> > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:51:00 +0100
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@kc.rr.com]
> > > Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > > the majority?)
> > >
> > >
> > > okey dokey
> >
> > Hilarious.
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Quaestor Assignment
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:39:34 +0100

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Omnibus Civibus Novae Romae SPD,

According to the Constitution each Quaestor has been assigned to a
higher Magistratii by mutual agreement. The establishment of this
agreement have had to wait because of the election of the 8th
Quaestor. The following list show these assignments:

Consules
Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Quaestor Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Consul Titus Labienus Fortunatus and Quaestor Gnaeus Octavius Noricus

Praetores
Praetor Gnaeus Salix Astur and Quaestor Claudius Salix Davianus
Praetor Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus and Quaestor Decimus Iunius Silanus

Curule Aediles
Curule Aedile Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Quaestor Manius Constantinus Serapio
Curule Aedile Gnaeus Equitius Marinus and Quaestor Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Plebeian Aediles
Plebeian Aedile Lucius Arminius Faustus and Quaestor Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Plebeian Aedile Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus and Quaestor
Lucius Arminius Faustus
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	"deciusiunius <bcatfd@together.net>" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:03:16 -0000

> Not true; we have no such restrictions. One of our current Consuls
> is Plebeian, and a past Consul was Plebeian when he held that office
> but later became Patrician.

Salve,

You're right on all points but this one. If you're speaking of Marcus
Minucius Audens or Quintus Fabius Maximus, both of them were
patricians when they held the office of Consul in 2000. However, they
both started as plebeians. Gens Minucia was elevated to Patrician in
Dec. 1998, gens Fabia became patrician in July 1999. Titus Labienus
is the first plebeian to be *elected* Consul. The first and only
other plebeian to hold the office of consul was Consul Suffectus
Quintus Caecilius Metellus, who replaced Flavius Vedius in Sept. 1998
after his resignation. Incidently, Metellus was a founding senator of
Nova Roma, one of the 4 original senators--and chose to be a plebeian
(he was also Plebeian Aedile for that year though the annals
incorrectly show the position as vacant).

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A Prometheus under Menschen
From:	"Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:14:55 +0100

ante diem IV Kal. FEBRVARIAS MMDCCLVI. MARCO OCTAVIO GERMANICO SALUTEM:

Your calendar* proceedeth from a piety non-pareil; every email bereft of
Roman date is a blemish and trespass.

* http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calender/cview

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] A Prometheus under Menschen
From:	"Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@mitdasein.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:19:38 +0100

* http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calendar/cview

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis [mailto:pitrinius@mitdasein.com]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 08:15
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] A Prometheus under Menschen
>
>
> ante diem IV Kal. FEBRVARIAS MMDCCLVI. MARCO OCTAVIO
> GERMANICO SALUTEM:
>
> Your calendar* proceedeth from a piety non-pareil; every
> email bereft of
> Roman date is a blemish and trespass.
>
>
>
> * http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calender/cview
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma
From:	"deciusiunius <bcatfd@together.net>" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:25:36 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Galerius Peregrinator"
<gaiusgalerius@h...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@k...>
> Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600
>
> http://www.cvrlab.org/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Yes. Go to the aforementioned http://www.cvrlab.org page and look to
the lower left of the page, to the column that says "Portfolio, Works
in Progress." In that column, click on the Curia Iulia (the Senate).
It will show you a cutout of the inside from the side of the building
and it will show you a shot through the open door towards the curule
dais.

The building stands intact in the forum today. It was restored from
the original material (except the doors which stayed on St. John
Lateran unfortunately) in the 1930s. There are pics of the actual
inside and outside available elsewhere on the web, I believe on a
site called Forum Romanum. A google search for Curia Iulia should
lead you to pics of the actual building, though the virtual images
here give a better idea what it looked like when in use in ancient
times.

The Curia was damaged in the late 3rd century, early 4th century.
This is the rebuilt version put up by Diocletian, though I have read
it was rebuilt by him to the exact specifications of the original.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 02:29:40 -0500

Salve there is a picture of it in the January Eagle I will try and attach it to an e-mail

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: deciusiunius
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:26 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Galerius Peregrinator"
<gaiusgalerius@h...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@k...>
> Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600
>
> http://www.cvrlab.org/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Yes. Go to the aforementioned http://www.cvrlab.org page and look to
the lower left of the page, to the column that says "Portfolio, Works
in Progress." In that column, click on the Curia Iulia (the Senate).
It will show you a cutout of the inside from the side of the building
and it will show you a shot through the open door towards the curule
dais.

The building stands intact in the forum today. It was restored from
the original material (except the doors which stayed on St. John
Lateran unfortunately) in the 1930s. There are pics of the actual
inside and outside available elsewhere on the web, I believe on a
site called Forum Romanum. A google search for Curia Iulia should
lead you to pics of the actual building, though the virtual images
here give a better idea what it looked like when in use in ancient
times.

The Curia was damaged in the late 3rd century, early 4th century.
This is the rebuilt version put up by Diocletian, though I have read
it was rebuilt by him to the exact specifications of the original.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 02:07:09 -0500

On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 11:36:51PM -0600, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola wrote:

> okey dokey

The world will be beating a path to your door anytime now; such lucidity
and clarity of expression will not go unrecognized for long.

<http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5011/acronyms.html#GOAT>

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
-- Occam's Razor

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma
From:	"deciusiunius <bcatfd@together.net>" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:50:50 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve there is a picture of it in the January Eagle I will try and
attach it to an e-mail

Don't send it to the group address, attachments can't be sent through
the list.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 02:52:00 -0500

Salve I sent it direct

Tiberius
----- Original Message -----
From: deciusiunius
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:51 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve there is a picture of it in the January Eagle I will try and
attach it to an e-mail

Don't send it to the group address, attachments can't be sent through
the list.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:09:54 +0000

----Original Message Follows----
From: "deciusiunius <bcatfd@together.net>" <bcatfd@together.net>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:50:50 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve there is a picture of it in the January Eagle I will try and
attach it to an e-mail

Don't send it to the group address, attachments can't be sent through
the list.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I think he meant it to me since my issue got lost in the mail.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Prometheus under Menschen
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 02:34:20 -0500

On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:14:55AM +0100, Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis wrote:
> ante diem IV Kal. FEBRVARIAS MMDCCLVI. MARCO OCTAVIO GERMANICO SALUTEM:
>
> Your calendar* proceedeth from a piety non-pareil; every email bereft of
> Roman date is a blemish and trespass.

"Epigram Engraved on the Collar of a Dog Which I Gave to His Royal Highness"

I am his Highness' dog at Kew;
Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?

-- Alexander Pope

Amazing man, Pope; his ability to puncture pretentiousness was, erm,
nonpareil.

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
It is sweet and glorious to die for one's country.
-- Horace, "Carmina"

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] About the famous names
From:	"biojournalism <biojournalism@hotmail.com>" <biojournalism@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:06:42 -0000

My research in mtDNA shows that most of us are probably related to
that famous person. Ancient Romans had a majority of H haplogroup
mtDNA (matrilineal lines) and 47% of Europeans have H haplogroup
mtDNA. We may all be descended from the people whose names we enjoy.
Certain sequences can be obtained from the remains of certain
patricians by testing the inside of a tooth from a fossil. For
example, who has H haplogroup mtDNA with sequences 16189, 16356,
16362? That's an ancient Roman sequence, now found all over Europe,
a lot in Siena, some in Crete, and Rome, but also in Iceland and
Bashkortostan and Bulgaria. What do they have in common? All come
from a single Roman woman who lived about 753 BCE. So perhaps we're
related, if not, may reincarnated?

Fascinating studies, that molecular genealogy. Well, at least my
great great grandma came from an hour's bike ride from Rome to NY in
1880 something. Anyway, my detective character, a ransomer, lives on
in 200 BCE in Rome on the next adventure in this novel. Still
researching the facts, though on how he manages to find a certain
wealthy client who has lost his memory in an earthquake. Take a
vote. Should I make the detective an architect in demand in ancient
Rome, a physician, or a lawyer? Need to know what the most common
hair color for women is in ancient Rome--brown or auburn? Is it true
most women used henna to make their hair bright orange?

Octavia

http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/
http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] About the famous names
From:	"biojournalism <biojournalism@hotmail.com>" <biojournalism@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:09:12 -0000


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: New Here
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:51:17 +0100

Salve Octavia!
Along with our Rogatrix Renata Corva, I also would like to say "welcome!"
It's nice to see yet another female in the Forum!

Re: your book
I say make your main character a doctor.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The Orders
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 02:58:47 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites,

I Have seen some people making a big deal over
Patrician Status and it seems rather pointless. Status
in Antiquita during the Republic and Early Empire was
a matter of which Family you belonged to. Patricians
had a little more Status. Plebians had far more
political power.

If being a Plebian really bothers anyone, they are
free to ask one of the Patrician Paters for permission
to join his Gens anytime they wish to do so. Most of
them will approve it, so there isn't any reason anyone
can't belong to the order they desire.

Before you do, be aware that you will be exchanging
political advantages for a little status. Plebs can
vote for the Tribunes and for two additional Aediles
or run for these offices if they wish to do so. Once
the Plebs reach the point where thier percentage is
closer to the historic numbers (90% if memory serves
me) They will be able to vote on Pleblacites in the
Plebian assembly that have the force of law.
Patricians have to obey these laws even though they
are barred from voting on them.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Tribune Run-off elections still in Progress!
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:58:13 +0100

Salvete,

This is just a friendly reminder to all Plebeian citizens that you have 30
hours left to vote for your favourite candidate for the 2 vacant positions
of Tribunus Plebis!

Voting shall end on Thursday January 30 at 18:01 Roman Time (17:01 GMT,
12:01 noon Eastern US time, 09:01 PST).

The following positions will be elected by the vote of the Comitia Plebis
Tributa:

TRIBUNUS PLEBIS - 2 seats available, 4 candidates:

Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius
Gaius Modius Athanasius
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Gaius Geminius Germanus

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis
*******************************

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Patricians Out
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:28:20 EST

In a message dated 1/28/2003 3:00:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jmath669642reng@webtv.net writes:

> I was expressing my concern as a Senator, and hoping for a quiet and
> factual explanantion of what seemed to me to be a deliberate action. If
> that was not clear to you, again you have my apology, and I shall not
> refer again to this situation with you.
>
> I am however, disappointed that you see me now as an enemy, someone to
> be ridiculed, and one to respond critically to, since I have long held
> you in high esteem.
>
> Regretfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens

Senator Marcus Minucius Audens:

With all due respect, if it was your intent to simply get a "factual
explanation" why did you not simply e-mail our Senior Tribune privately
asking for a more thorough explanation of her actions? I did see your e-mail
as a challenge to her decision.

I support the actions of Diana Moravia Aventina completely, and feel that
your comments to her were very much against the spirit of her actions. There
was no malicious intentions in her actions. She simply followed the dictates
of her conscience in cleaning up a list that had not had proper maintenance
done in a long time. There is no real reason why Patricians should be on
that list. Besides, there are several lists within Nova Roma that are closed
-- even to you. There are there Religio lists that are closed. I have not
seen you issue an e-mail to main list on the injustice of that?

In closing, I think Diana Moravia is doing a wonderful job. I think you,
esteemed Senator, overreacted to her decision. I would ask that you
re-evaluate your position.

Respectfully;

G. Modius Athanasius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Reminder: SAVE ALBURNUS MAIOR!!!
From:	Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 03:55:15 -0800 (PST)

�A gold mine threatens a great archaeological site�

A Canadian firm, Gabriel Resources, will open a gold,
silver and uranium mine which will destroy several
important archaeological sites in Romania. The choosen
place for what will be the biggest European opencast
mine is Rosia Montana, the Roman Alburnus Maior, on
the Apuseni mountains.

The mining activity in this area is thousands of years
old. Several mines of the II century B.C. can still be
partly travelled over.

Besides iron ores, Rosia Montana is famous in European
archaeology because of epigraphical evidence found
there. Just two year ago, a Frech-German team
discovered funeral steles and a large number of Roman
altars with votive inscriptions.

The Canadian project even provides for the complete
destruction of the actual center (which will be
re-built elsewhere...) with its monuments (eight
churches and nine graveyards) and its archaeological
strata.
Here they will settle one of the four shafts provided
for.

The Rosia Montana valley is part of the national
protected Property. An international campaign is
underway to save the ancient evidences of that area.
This campaign involves Rumanian archaeologists like
Gheorghe Lazarovici (Univesrity of Cluj), Marius Ciuta
(University of Alba Iulia), Sabin Luca (University of
Sibiu). The mobilization culminated with an appeal to
the highest national authorities by 83 academics of
the Academy of Economic Studies of the University of
Bucarest, in order to stop this operation. In fact,
according to a close examination, this project would
not even provide the populace
with relevant economic advantages.

The World Bank has already announced, through the
International Finance Corporation (IFC), that they
will not finance the project of the Gabriel Resources:
James Wohfensohn, the president of the World Bank,
intervened directly to block the loan.

The gold of this area of the Carpathians has been
mined and traded in the whole of Europe since
prehistory. Trajan's column shows the Roman occupation
of the Apuseni mountains. It was a conquest which led
to Rome so much gold that its price was depressed for
decades. Even with this depreciated price the sheer
amount of gold provided for the financing of ambitious
projects like the construction of the amphitheatre in
Verona.

The project of Gabriel Resources provides for the
forced transfer of 2,000 people: most of them are
actually employed in more than 700 farms. Production
processes using cyanide, which has already
caused a lot of ecological disasters, and which are
illegal in the rest of Europe, are proposed. Just
consider that about 196.4 million tons of cyanide
waste will be created. A real ecological predicament
is
looming, and unfortunately it would not be something
new in Romania. In fact, with the same mining process
in another mine in Baia Mare, water for 2,500,000
people was contaminated.

For further information go to
http://www.rosiamontana.org

What we ask you is to simply sign this petition to the
Government of
Romania:
http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html

Please do that! It's very important! We must try to do
our best to assist in saving Alburnus Maior and
avoiding this ecological catastrophe!

BENE VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] What we do for archaeology (and not only)
From:	Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:00:58 -0800 (PST)

Citizens of Nova Roma!

Thank you for what you already did for Alburnus Maior.
A lot of Novaroman citizens signed the petition to
save this archaeological site, but WE CAN DO MORE!!!

We all are interested in Roman history and
archaeology, so it's logical that we understand the
gravity of the matter. However, the case of Rosia
Montana, the Roman Alburnus Maior, is a cultural
factor, as well as an ecological one. Anybody can
understand it, anybody could be willing to sign a
petition to help avoiding that Art loose a number of
masterpieces, that our history loose a number of
essential evidences, that a lot of people loose their
home and that an ecosystem loose its equilibrium!

Students of Nova Roma: most probably your University
has a mailing list for the history department. Send
there the text about this petition campaign! (previous
message)

Web Masters of Nova Roma: would it be possible to put
a link in your website to advertize this campaign?

Have this petition signed by your relatives and your
friends! Propagate the news!

http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html

For further information: http://www.rosiamontana.org

Concluding, let me thank our Senatus, as I know that
the Senators will discuss the case of Alburnus Maior
in the coming sitting.

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor

P.S. I apologyze for my "intrusion" in the Religio
Romana list and in the Sodalitas Militarium list. I
think that this matter could be interesting for their
members too.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Web Banners & html text for Save Alburnus Maior !
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:25:49 +0100

Salvete webmasters,

<Web Masters of Nova Roma: would it be possible to put
<a link in your website to advertize this campaign?
<Have this petition signed by your relatives and your
<friends! Propagate the news!
<http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html

Anyone linking to the Save Alburnus Maior website can use the banners that I
have made (one in English and one in French) . I have just uploaded them to
the files section of the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/

I've already put the text and links to the petition in html format. Everyone
is free to copy-paste it to their websites.
http://www.gensmoravia.org/AlburnusMaior.htm (English)
http://www.gensmoravia.org/Alburnusfr.htm (French translation by S.
Apollonius Scipio)

Valete,
Diana Moravia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:49:02 -0600 (CST)

Salve Praetor Deci Iuni,

> You're right on all points but this one. If you're speaking of Marcus
> Minucius Audens or Quintus Fabius Maximus, both of them were
> patricians when they held the office of Consul in 2000. However, they
> both started as plebeians.

I incorrectly thought the change in order took place during or after
their Consulship... thanks for the clarification.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Patricians Out
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:09:03 +0100

Salve Marcus Minucius Audens,

< I have not criticized you for your effort, rather I have expressed my
disappointment at your <determination between Pleb and Pat.
G Modius used a good example: there are various Priesthood lists, all of
which are closed. My subscription request was rejected to one of them and I
was informed why. I was glad that my subscription was rejected: better that
than for me to start posting and having someone tell me that I shouldn't be
there in the first place!

My determination between Plebeian and Patrician was *solely* to follow the
rules. But having read the many posts, I see that Patricians were able to be
present for any discussions of the Plebeians, which I was not aware of. In
light of that, the list is now open. This is actually easier for the
moderators of the list-- we won't have to verify the citizen's membership by
asking for their Roman name. So I have changed the list description to
include "Patrician citizens are welcome to sit in on discussions, however,
participation is limited to Plebeian citizens". Again I have to state that
there are presently no discussions going on. But the list is indeed ready
for discussions to take place when one is necessary!

< It is to my mind, absolutely necessary that Plebs and Pats work together
< in the building of NR. Niether group can exist without the other.
Of course, I agree with you and that is what the mainlist and other NR
specialty lists are for. The Comitia Plebis Tributa list has another
function and could/will be used (when necessary) as stated in the
constitution (III.c.).

<I am however, disappointed that you see me now as an enemy, someone to
<be ridiculed, and one to respond critically to, since I have long held
<you in high esteem.

Enemies? "Enemy" is not a word that is in my vocabulary and so I had to look
it up in the dictionary ;-) I found the following : enemy: one who hates or
opposes or seeks to harm another. Certainly, that definition does not apply
to us. I am sure that we will agree on many things in the future and may now
and then disagree. Things are rarely ever black or white, but varying shades
of grey.

Vale,
Diana Moravia

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:21:55 +0000 (GMT)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
Maximus, greetings.

I said:
> anyone may arrive unannounced at
> the House and watch proceedings from the Strangers'
> Gallery whenever the House is sitting

You said:
> Really? I did not know this. Thank you for the
> information. Is this still true in the current
> terrorist atmosphere?

Yes, it is, and I haven't heard anyone suggest that it
should be changed. I imagine there would be a public
outcry if it was suggested.

I presume that security has been tightened, but I'm
glad to say that attacks on MPs are rare (beyond
people throwing rotten eggs), and even Prime
Ministers, being rather less glamourous a figure than
US Presidents for example, are not often targeted.
We've only had one PM assassinated, and no one
remembers him anyway (Spencer Percival, I think it
was). The last attempted attack on Parliament as a
whole that I know of was the one involving Mr. Fawkes.

Cordus

=====

www.strategikon.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)
From:	"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:54:07 -0000

See http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hcio/gallery.cfm

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.
----- Original Message -----
From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)

In a message dated 1/28/03 12:28:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cordus@strategikon.org writes:

> No, though there is a digital television channel
> devoted to broadcasting live from the House of
> Commons. Moreover, anyone may arrive unannounced at
> the House and watch proceedings from the Strangers'
> Gallery whenever the House is sitting

Really? I did not know this. Thank you for the information. Is this still
true in the current terrorist atmosphere?

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:56:36 +0000 (GMT)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consul T. Labienus
Fortunatus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I'm glad to find that we have more common ground on
this issue than I inferred from your last message:
sorry for my misapprehension.

I think we may safely agree to disagree on the
historical argument. I do not entirely accept or agree
with the idea that the Roman constitution was 'mixed'
or 'balanced', and that the Assemblies were the
democratic element while the Senate was the
aristocratic. This derives from Polybius, who was
importing Greek political theory into his description
of the constitution in order to make it easier for
Greek readers to understand. Moreover, it is not
altogether clear that even Polybius regarded the Roma
state as 'mixed' or 'balanced'.

The central point is this: in the ancient republic,
though it was in practice easier to overhear the
proceedings of the Assemblies than those of the
Senate, it was also the case that the Plebeian
Assembly was a legislative body, while the Senate was
not. Senatus consulta had no force of law.

Here, on the other hand, both are legislative bodies.
Senatus consulta are passed by a relatively small
group of people but are binding upon the whole
populace until overruled by edict, law or plebiscite.
The Senate also has ultimate control of changes to the
constitution, and even of the measures of a dictator,
and can pass the senatus consultum ultimum. The
constitution specifies that these three are the
highest laws in the state, overriding ordinary laws
and edicts. I'll just repeat that, because I don't
think many people really appreciate it: the Senate can
veto any measure of any assembly, magistrate or
dictator, and can pass senatus consula ultima creating
positive legislation which overrules everyone but a
dictator.

Yes, I know that the Senate would only do these things
in emergencies, and that there are constitutional
provisions preventing the abuse of these powers. But
the consitutional provisions can themselves be
overruled by the Senate, and the argument that abuse
does not occur is not a proof that it cannot.

I don't want this discussion to turn into a debate
about whether it's good or bad for the Senate to have
these powers. I'm happy to have that debate, and I
think it should be had, but anyone wanting to have it
please start a new thread. The point is this: while
our Senate has these vast and overriding powers that
the ancient Senate never had, then the argument that
the Senate should not be open because it wasn't open
historically will not wash. The accountability and
transparency of a body should be proportional to its
powers. The powers are greater than they were
historically, so the transparency should be greater;
or, the powers should be lessened to correspond with
the transparency.

If the Senate had only its historical powers, then I
would be ready to engage with the historical argument
about its openness. Otherwise, however, history is
beside the point.

Cordus

P.S. If anyone is getting bored with this discussion,
I'm content to transfer it across to the Laws list if
anyone asks.

=====

www.strategikon.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:01:28 -0600

werd.
----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 11:36:51PM -0600, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola wrote:

> okey dokey

The world will be beating a path to your door anytime now; such lucidity
and clarity of expression will not go unrecognized for long.

<http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5011/acronyms.html#GOAT>

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
-- Occam's Razor


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
From:	"Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:08:16 -0600

Ave Peregrinator the Terminator:

As a matter of fact, we do know what it looked like!

It was some kind of building, filled with dry old men, who thought they were better than everyone else.

Basilicatus

heh.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600

http://www.cvrlab.org/

------------------------------------------------------------
Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Web Banners & html text for Save Alburnus Maior !
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@yahoo.it>" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:20:41 -0000

AVE OPTIMA DIANA MORAVIA AVENTINA TRIBVNE PLEBIS

> Anyone linking to the Save Alburnus Maior website can use the
banners that I
> have made (one in English and one in French) . I have just uploaded
them to
> the files section of the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-
Roma/files/
>
> I've already put the text and links to the petition in html format.
Everyone
> is free to copy-paste it to their websites.
> http://www.gensmoravia.org/AlburnusMaior.htm (English)
> http://www.gensmoravia.org/Alburnusfr.htm (French translation by S.
> Apollonius Scipio)

Thank you for your great help, my friend! ;-)

BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
Qvaestor

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] About the Famous Names
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:54:33 -0800 (PST)

Octavia--Okay, you've got me fascinated, now. I'm
very interested (in a layman's way) in DNA testing,
resequencing, and reverse DNA testing with
mitochondrial DNA, both on a forensic and on an
archaeological level.

I took the best biology course I ever had last spring,
and I miss it so much! Reading your message was a
pleasant reminder of it.

My personal preference is for the detective to be a
physician--probably Greek-trained. But I'm biased
that way. To me, medicine is far more fascinating
than the law. (g)

I very much look forward to reading your books!

---
Renata Corva

=====
Chantal
http://www.theranweyr.org

"Yesterday, it worked.
Today, it is not working.
Windows is like that."

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)
From:	labienus@novaroma.org
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:00:03 US/Central

Salvete iterum Aule Apolloni omnesque

> I think we may safely agree to disagree on the
> historical argument. I do not entirely accept or agree
> with the idea that the Roman constitution was 'mixed'
> or 'balanced', and that the Assemblies were the
> democratic element while the Senate was the
> aristocratic. This derives from Polybius, who was
> importing Greek political theory into his description
> of the constitution in order to make it easier for
> Greek readers to understand. Moreover, it is not
> altogether clear that even Polybius regarded the Roma
> state as 'mixed' or 'balanced'.

I certainly agree that the lines between the (theoretically) balanced elements
of the ancient Roman constitution were quite blurry, and that Polybius'
monarchic-aristocratic-democratic division is primarily a tool of convenience
which should be taken cum grano salis. I also agree that, most likely, very
few Romans would have thought of their government in Polybius' terms. However,
I do think that the Concilium Plebis was created and run in a generally
democratic spirit, while the Senate was maintained in a decidedly aristocratic
spirit.

In other words, while we may have to agree to disagree, I can see your side of
the fence from where I am.

And now, on to the historicity of our Senate:

> ...it was also the case that the Plebeian
> Assembly was a legislative body, while the Senate was
> not. Senatus consulta had no force of law.
>
> Here, on the other hand, both are legislative bodies.

This is a subject which has troubled me ever since I became active in Nova
Roma's government. I've often asked how binding Nova Roma's senatusconsulta
are upon the populace. The answers I've received have generally depended upon
whom I asked.

In any case, senatusconsulta in antiquity did have the force of law. There's
evidence to suggest that, in the earliest days of the Republic, no law could be
passed without a senatusconsultum approving of it. More explicitly, it was a
senatusconsultum that resulted in the destruction of the cult of Bacchus in 186
BCE. The record shows that the Senate handled matters of religion, police,
administration, provincial affairs, and foreign relations. Many
senatusconsulta passed in the Republican period (Augustus effectively replaced
the comitia with senatusconsulta) were what would be called laws today.

Our constitution is silent upon the exact limits of senatusconsulta. It
explicitly gives the Senate control over the treasury and taxation, the ability
to refuse or accept a constitutional amendment requested by the comitia, the
authority to establish provinciae and governors, and the ability to set its own
internal regulations. Beyond that, it can issue senatusconsula--defined
as "advice of the Senate"--on any subject. However, nowhere does it explicitly
state how binding such advice is. In the absence of direction, it therefore
falls to the magistrates to determine on a case by case basis which consulta
they will enforce and which they will ignore.

> The Senate also has ultimate control of changes to the
> constitution, and even of the measures of a dictator,
> and can pass the senatus consultum ultimum. The
> constitution specifies that these three are the
> highest laws in the state, overriding ordinary laws
> and edicts. I'll just repeat that, because I don't
> think many people really appreciate it: the Senate can
> veto any measure of any assembly, magistrate or
> dictator, and can pass senatus consula ultima creating
> positive legislation which overrules everyone but a
> dictator.

I don't think you said quite what you intended to say there. The Senate can't
directly "veto any measure of any assembly". Only by creating a dictator,
passing a Senatus Consultum Ultimum, or refusing to enact a constitutional
amendment can the Senate interfere with the legislative powers of the comitia.
Two of those three powers are historical, though the Senatus Consultum Ultimum
belongs to the later days of the Republic. And, those two are subject to the
tribuni plebis' veto before the fact.

> The point is this: while
> our Senate has these vast and overriding powers that
> the ancient Senate never had, then the argument that
> the Senate should not be open because it wasn't open
> historically will not wash.

You've only mentioned two powers that the ancient Senate didn't have. The
first is the ability to approve or deny the actions of a dictator, a power
which was included in an effort to protect the state from a latter-day Sulla or
Caesar. The second is the ability to deny constitutional amendments, which is
unhistorical primarily because the very existence of the constitution is
unhistorical. However, to suggest that the ancient Senate didn't have "vast
and overriding powers" is, according to the evidence I've seen, an error.

> The accountability and
> transparency of a body should be proportional to its
> powers. The powers are greater than they were
> historically, so the transparency should be greater;
> or, the powers should be lessened to correspond with
> the transparency.

While I strongly disagree that the Senate's powers are substantially greater
than they were in antiquity, I agree with your sentiments regarding
transparency. As I said before, it is up to the tribuni plebis to determine
how much of the Senate's business to share on a case-by-case basis. They are,
after all, the primary defenders of the populace against the rest of the
government. If you want to know more about what the Senate is doing, lobby the
tribuni. It is your right and duty as a civis to examine your government and
help to keep those working in it honest.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:03:18 +0000 (GMT)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consul T. Labienus
Fortunatus, greetings.

I think we have arraived, more or less, at a clear
understanding of our agreements and disagreements. I
think you're quite correct to be troubled by the
question of the legal force of senatus consulta, and
it reassures me that you are.

To my mind the issue is quite clear. The relevant
section of the constitution says:

"Legal precedence. This Constitution shall be the
highest legal authority within Nova Roma, apart from
edicts issued by a legally appointed dictator. It
shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by
edicta issued by consuls acting under the Senatus
consultum ultima, laws properly voted and passed by
one of the comitia, decreta passed by the collegium
pontificum, decreta passed by the collegium augurium,
Senatus consulta, and magisterial edicta (in order of
descending authority as described in section IV of
this Constitution), in that order. Should a lower
authority conflict with a higher authority, the higher
authority shall take precedence. Should a law passed
by one comitia contradict one passed by another or the
same comitia without explicitly superceding that law,
the most recent law shall take precedence."

It seems to me quite unarguably to imply that senatus
consulta have legal force, or else they would not be
in the list. In fact I see that I have misremembered
the wording - they actually have more force than
magisterial edicts, and it is well-established by
precedent that those are binding!

You have cited a number of historical cases to suggest
that senatus consulta were historically binding. I
think this must in the end come down to one's view of
the evidence. Where you see these cases (the
Bacchanalian conspiracy in particular) as
demonstrating the legitimate powers of the Senate, I
would argue that they were cases of the Senate
illegally exceeding its powers. Likewise, in my strong
view the senatus consultum ultimum was utterly
illegal, and should be firmly rejected not least
because it was first invented in order to sanction the
illegal, unjustified and sacrilegious killing of a
tribune.

I do accept that in many less controversial cases
senatus consulta were accepted and treated as if they
were laws, but in my view these cases are probably
those in which our sources have omitted to mention the
occurrence of what conventionally followed a senatus
consultum: a magistrate would usually transcribe it
straight into an edict, which would then have force.

Anyway, this has now moved away from the substantive
issue of Senate transparency, on which we agree by and
large, and which I hope to see the Tribunes address
after the next session. I shall put a petition to them
in the proper manner if they do not, as you suggest.

Thanks for your enjoyable and well-reasoned discourse.

Cordus

=====

www.strategikon.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:12:42 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : �=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=� <cordus@strategikon.org>
>
>I presume that security has been tightened, but I'm
>glad to say that attacks on MPs are rare (beyond
>people throwing rotten eggs), and even Prime
>Ministers, being rather less glamourous a figure than
>US Presidents for example, are not often targeted.
>
Terrorist security isn't exactly new for Westminster is it, especially with two of them entitled to sit in the joint. I think a reasonably solid security check goes back to about the time they put gates across Downing Street, some time in the 80s - when there was probably more chance of Prime Minesterial assassination that for the previous 100 years!

V. Ambrosius Caesariensis

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Patricians Out
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:21:13 -0500 (EST)

Mistress Aventina;

My thanks for your response and your apparent understandng of my purpose
in the making of my original post on this matter.

Perhaps, as you say, the term enemy was a little harsh. I was not at my
best when I wrote that message since I haven't been sleeping all that
well. It's probably my own fault sice I do love to read until the wee
hours of the morning, and the following day is somewhat "blurry."

You have my apology for my excess in that item, it was a poor choice at
best.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/