Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Chat Room Tonight - All Welcome!
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@shinjikun.com>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:29:59 -0500

Salvete!

The weekly Nova Britannia chat will be held tonight from 9:00 pm to
10:00 pm EST at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaBritannia/chat

All are welcome!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Certified Results - Tribunus Plebis Election
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:58:36 EST

VIVAT, G. MODIUS ATHANASIUS. VOTE FOR HIM. THE BEST CITIZEN FOR THE JOB.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis, Lawyer w/angry girlfriend.
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:18:56 EST

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to G. B. Agricola. Salve.

I disagree with your proposal concerning that there is no need for the
Patrician-Plebian structure. I like it on historical grounds and I like it
on political grounds but mostly I don't see any reason to change it at the
moment. We can always have a Second Social War in the future.

I agree with your idea for a plan(s) for the Republic. Such a plan(s) should
be made, in my opinion, with the agreement of at least 2/3 of the tax-paying
assiduii. We should discuss the idea that a permanent site for Nova Roma is
needed. I met with some folks just a week back about buying land for a
permanent pagan festival site in Tennessee. We figured we would need 25-30
people kicking in between $100-$250 a piece to cover the earnest money and
about $25-$100 dollars per month to meet the monthly mortgage payment and
site development costs. These estimates were based on information obtained
from Communities Magazine about land funds. Realistically, it would take a
1-2 year plan to organize and collect the funds, research a site, set up the
board of directors, and write the charter. Of course, we would also need to
consider whether or not we will be a "non-profit educational and/or religious
organization" or a "for-profit entertainment organization."
I'm ready with some time, energy, and money to help get this idea on the road
but we should work within the framework of Nova Roma's existing government.
I like and respect the current magistrates (for the most part) and would
dislike seeing anything being done to jeopardize our existing structure.
Vale.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis, Lawyer w/misanthropic, chauvinistic viewpoint
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:25:54 EST

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to G. B. Agricola. Salve.

Agricola, grab girl by hair. Hit with club. Drag back to cave. Eat raw
meat. Fire for sissies. I know, I know . . . Joke. Joke.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: I've just been told I'm now a new citizen of Nova Roma!
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:36:04 -0500

On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 08:23:08AM -0000, biojournalism <biojournalism@hotmail.com> wrote:

Salve,

> What's a scarlet pimpernel by the way?

>From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.44:

Pimpernel \Pim"per*nel\, n. [F. pimprenelle; cf. Sp. pimpinela,
It. pimpinella; perh. from LL. bipinnella, for bipinnula
two-winged, equiv. to L. bipennis; bis twice + penna feather,
wing. Cf. {Pen} a feather.] (Bot.)
A plant of the genus {Anagallis}, of which one species
({Anagallis arvensis}) has small flowers, usually scarlet,
but sometimes purple, blue, or white, which speedily close at
the approach of bad weather.
[1913 Webster]

The only trouble with looking up definitions in a dictionary is that
they're very much like Pringles: you can never stop at just one... :)

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tamdiu discendum est, quamdiu vivas.
We should learn as long as we may live.
-- Seneca Philosophus, "Epistulae"

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis?
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:45:34 EST

Actually, the idea of long-term leases for citizens/gens/corporations makes
good sense for supporting the state. If the Gens Galeria wanted to have a
permanent site to camp at Nova Roma, they could pay an annual rent to the
state. The state would establish (with the consent of the tax-paying
electorate) the guidelines for any permanent structures such as shrines or
living quarters. The Gens Galeria would be responsible for adhering to the
guidelines, keeping the grounds clean, and paying the rent. The State would
be responsible for marking the boundaries, providing paths, and public works
like drainage.
With the relative low costs of structures made of cob and strawbale, it would
be possible to construct reasonable facsimiles of single story Italic-style
homes, shops, temples, et cetera; without creating a hodgepodge of styles.
Such structures can be build in many localities with the aid of an
experimental building permit. Further, such structures are virtually fire
proof, highly energy efficient, and can be constructed by almost anyone with
a little training and some in-depth practice.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis? C. Minucius Scaevola
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:54:43 EST

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to C. Minucius Scaevola. Salve.

While I agree that G. B. Agricola is no Cato the Elder, his "and we need a
plan" is not without merit. He wants action and that shows his energy and
desire for progress. Like you, he is one of the most active citizens on the
main list and, also like you, no one agrees with him 100% of the time. I am
sure that this thread is already causing our magistrates to begin thinking
about making plans on how to respond. Indeed, this thread has already caused
at least five citizens I have never heard from to respond. Sometimes the
most beautiful pearl of wisdom began as the constant irritation of a single
ugly grain of truth.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:13:57 EST

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Q. Cassius Calvus. Salve.

Those remarks were most unworthy of you, Cassius Calvus. Although G. B.
Agricola may be somewhat irritating his "we need a plan" is not without merit
and all citizens should think hard about plans for the future of NR. If the
Republic collects twice the taxes that it did last year, we will most likely
have a much higher budget to work with towards our goals. We all need to
direct our talents and energies to developing plans for the future. I beg
you, fellow citizens, do not let this thread turn into a childish display of
petty insults.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] female magistrates in NR
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:32:28 EST

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Diana Moravia. Salve.

Speaking for the male citizens of NR, I would never consider you bitchy,
weak, or easy. This is not merely because I have found your posts to be
thoughtful, humorous, and straightforward but because only a complete idiot
would want to piss off the priestess of Venus.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Your Big Fat Ancient Roman Wedding
From:	Anthony Scott <optio456@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:32:28 -0800 (PST)

Hello,
I have found two excellent sites dealing with Roman weddings, one is more scholarly and the other is a superb personal site of two people who actually got married using tradional rites. I think these sites will be helpful.
http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/consortium/ancientweddings5.html
http://www.janeraeburn.com/wedding/
And yet a third, a fine one too:
http://members.aol.com/Donnclass/Romelife.html
Hope this helps!
-Anthony
"biojournalism <biojournalism@hotmail.com>" <biojournalism@hotmail.com> wrote:Ancient Roman Wedding Procedure
By: Octavia Fabia Scriba

Here are the 43 Steps to Your Ancient Roman Wedding.

A Roman wedding ring symbolized the rope that bound the bridal
wrists in times so ancient it occurred before ancient Rome. Yet it
also symbolized the circular nature of nature itself which
symbolized recurrence, rebirth, and rhythm. By the Republic era of
ancient Rome, the wedding ring was then thought to bind the nerve
that ran from the finger to the heart, thereby caging the bride's
heart or seat of emotions as a caged bird that sings. Yet the liver
was supposed to be the seat of emotions, but never the brain. A lot
took place between the time of negotiation and engagement before a
wedding, a lot of planning, thought, and family social climbing,
when possible.
You can have three types of Roman weddings. In ancient Rome there
were three different kinds of weddings. You could have the
confarreatio. This is the patrician marriage assuming the bride's
and groom's parents also were married with confarreatio. You'd have
a grand ceremony with ten witnesses.
You'd need a Flamen Dialis and Pontifex Maximus to conduct the
wedding. The bride goes straight from her paterfamilias to the
groom. Divorce was almost unheard of. A patrician divorce was
difficult to obtain and rare, but if gotten, a diffareatio required
a sacrifice before the wife was returned to her father�.The bride is
literally handed into her father's arms. "manus of her
paterfamilias."
You could have a plebeian wedding and have a common Roman marriage
where "manus" called the coemptio. The groom purchased the bride.
The groom pays nummus usus, a penny, and gets the bride in exchange
for the penny. It's not a real sale, but symbolizes the traditional
bride purchase of years gone by before ancient Roman times. For a
common wedding, you only need five witnesses. The wedding is
informal, but the bride is given to her husband's family.
The third kind of Roman marriage is unusual because it was
not used by the end of the Republic and labeled old fashioned. It
went out with the end of the Republic. It was called the "usus" and
was a practical marriage that did not require any type of ritual or
ceremony. This type of marriage existed in the days of the early
Republic and before that when there were kings in Rome. By 80 BCE,
it was termed obsolete.
In this wedding, the bride was transferred to the "manus" of the
groom (or the bride is handed over to the groom) after cohabitation
for a year. At the beginning of the cohabitation where the two would
simply live together for a set time, the couple would take an oath
of adfectus maritalis, fidelity in marriage. After the year was up,
the bride then belonged to the husband or "passed into his hands."
The only way to get out of that cohabitation marriage was if the
woman was away from the husband's home for three nights in a row,
she would not have to pass into the husband's clutches, `er hands. �
or rather his "manus."

1. No ceremony was needed to legalize your wedding. So it's
okay to live together for two weeks in order to acquire "adfectus
maritalis," and thereby have your wedding recognized as legal in
Rome. However, most patrician families insisted upon a rite of
marriage ceremony�a wedding and wedding feast.
2. First the bride renounces her infanthood. She begins by
giving away her childhood toys and her children's garb called the
toga praetexta. She proceeds to take three baths, one in cold water,
one in lukewarm water, and one in heated water, comfortable but
warm. She scrubs her body with a mixture of warm extra virgin olive
oil, cold pressed, of course.
3. To the bowl of olive oil is added whole and pressed cloves,
pot purri dried flowers such as orange blossoms and rose blossoms or
petals and extract of orange blossom and rose petal water, essence
adopted from the Phoenicians�to boil orange and rose petals and wash
with it mixed with olive oil. She rinses her mouth with rose petal
water and eats a fresh apple to clean her teeth, then rubs her teeth
with linen soaked in crushed chalk or similar minerals. (Modern
brides would do fine with calcium powder.). She brushes orange
blossom honey on her tongue.
4. Her hairstyle is unique to the wedding feast and is called
the tutulus. This hairdo involves having her hair combed and parted
into six locks. The Latin term was "sex crines," (no not sex crimes)
crines. Six crines. Her hair is parted into six parts not with a
comb but with a traditional Roman bent iron spearhead called
a "hasta recurva" or "hasta caelibaris." Her hair is parted in six
parts with a bent iron spearhead. (As if that isn't enough of a
phallic symbol at a wedding, the reason for the spearhead in ancient
Rome was that it drove out the evil eye in her hair and any other
evil ghost-spirits.) This custom pops up in other cultures from
Australia to ancient Rome�driving out the evil ones from the hair
with a bent spearhead. This was preceded by a fine carved ivory or
wooden lice comb through the hair and then the spearhead for good
measure.
5. She fastens or has fastened the six hair locks equally
divided in a hexagon over her head with a type of clip or baret
called a vittae.
6. The vittae are fastened on top of her head in a meta. The
meta is shaped like an inverted or standing pyramid or a cone. In
other words, she has six hair spikes sticking up from her head.
However, the meta is not severe looking. Usually the wedding
tradition required that six locks of curled hair be clipped in place
in the shape of a cone.
7. The wedding gown in ancient Rome was only worn one time and
then tossed. It could be off-white, but the wedding veil was bright
red and called the flammeum. And the red veil was the most important
symbol she wore at her wedding.
8. The wedding vows. The woman says in Latin "I veil myself."
She uses the verb "nubo" which is a term used for a cloud "nubes."
What she means is that she's under a cloud or veiled. She's property
under a cloud being exchanged. (Let's see her get to inherit
property with that title report of being under a cloud.)
9. Words related to nubo include nupta, a woman who is married,
nova nupta, a bride, and nuptiae, the wedding from which comes the
English word, nuptials used today for wedding ceremonies and
rituals. Everything in the wedding feast or ritual now is focused on
the bride and her flaming red veil. (Why red? Was she compared to a
rose, or was there a deeper meaning such as the blood proof of her
chastity/virginity that used to be demanded to be viewed from the
window by the public in Sicily and Egypt?)
10. Here's what the veil looked like: You take a rectangular
transparent piece of silk or similar material that's bride red and
drape it on the back of your head and shoulders to your heels. It's
like an oblong flag. Before silk came to Rome it was spun from a
transparent material similar to the type of flimsy, silk-like cloth
from certain Greek islands.
11. You fasten the veil to the cones at the back of your head.
The veil does not go over the face, but down the back and touching
the shoulders. On top of the veil is a wreath of amaracus.
12. A miniature wedding bed was placed in the hallway to cheer
up the couple.
13. Pine cones were lit.
14. The gown consisted of a tunica recta. You can make this out
of a white piece of rectangular cloth of muslin, flannel or silk.
You weave the cloth on an upright loom. The tunica recta is
fashioned with a girdle called a cingulum with a knot at the waist
to tie up the evil spirits so they wouldn't settle in her
reproductive organs.
15. The first half of the wedding feast takes place at the
bride's home of her paterfamilias. The bride's parents search in the
nooks and crannies of the house for omens, and if nothing is found
that's scary, they hand over the bride to the groom.
16. The bride takes the vows "Ubi tu (name of groom), ego (name
of bride), actually, Where you are (male form of name) such as
Claudius, I am (female form of the male's name) Claudia�.as
in "Where you are Claudius, I am Claudia." Only you say it in
Latin. "Ubi tu Claudius, ego Claudia."
17. The groom didn't even have to be in the country. He could
send a letter with his part of the words they would exchange with
one another. Then the matron of honor called the pronuba grabs the
couple's hands and shoves them together to join the bride's and
groom's hands, gently of course.
18. The bride and groom are now married. They offer up a roast
pig as a "sacrifice."
19. Then there's the matter of the marriage contract. The
tabulae nuptials should have been prepared long ago. It's brought
forth now by the auspex, a priest and best man, and the couple signs
the contract along with the witnesses. A certain number of witnesses
were required for the contract to be legal.
20. A wedding breakfast, rather than a wedding dinner, is paid
for by the groom, even though he may not be there in person. After
eating a breakfast of cakes and egg lace pudding, all the gifts were
presented to the new couple.
21. The procession started after that. Now everything moves from
the bride's villa to the groom's. If there's no villa, then from the
bride's little hut to the groom's. The procession is like a pageant
and is called the deduction in domum mariti. It's also referred to
as the pompa for short.
22. Now the dramatic skit starts. Everything has drama in it in
ancient Rome. The couple and guests put on a wedding play. It's
almost always the same skit: The seize of the Sabines. The bride
clings or hugs her mother, and the groom pulls her out of her
mother's arms. Then the bride had to find three boys whose both
parents were alive and well callead the patarimi et matrimi to take
the bride or lead the bride away from her mother's arms while the
guests shouted jokes and/or obscenities. The groom chose one boy to
light a pine torch and carry another torch called a spina alba, a
special torch lit only from the bride's home, usually from her
fireplace or similar hearth.
23. Another boy throws walnuts (shelled) at the couple being
careful not to throw small pieces in the bride's ear where they
can't be removed, or in her eyes. So they aim the walnuts at her
legs. The nuts symbolize the wish for fertility of the bride.
24. What does the bride carry? Blueberries and wreaths, a
spindle and distaff symbolizing her role as a wife who weaves and
stays at home, and hopefully she carries nothing catching other than
the catch of the day.
25. The groom lights the torches symbolizing bringing knowledge
to the darkness.
26. The groom also sings verses called "Fescenennine poems."
27. The bride touches water and fire "aquae et ignis
communication" symbolizing a life of cooking food and washing the
soiled clothing.
28. She touches the mini-marriage bed symbolizing the separate
spirits of the bride and groom. His spirit guide is genius and her
spirit guide is juno.
29. The groom had to be at home in his own house before the
bride arrived there so he could greet her. The processions split
into two pageants called the uxorem ducere/deducere.
30. The mother of the bride yells, "epithalamia" and dances a
leap to move the spirits to cheer the couple on to consummate the
marriage, but consummation of a marriage wasn't required for the
marriage to be legal, not on the wedding night, and not decades
later. So celibate couples with adopted children were accepted.
31. The mother and bride finally arrive at the groom's house and
toss away their torches in a traditional ritual. The bride now takes
out a small jar or pot of fat or oil and rubs the grease on the
doorway and hangs a wreath and a piece of wool to symbolize her life
as a domestic hostess. She tiptoes across the threshold. In the
later republic she is carried over the threshold. The reason is that
it's a bad omen, an evil eye curse to step on the threshold or trip
over it. If she stumbles over her clothing on the way to her groom's
house, it's a bad omen that he'll trip her up or abuse her.
32. The new house is now a place for the bride to touch water
and fire to symbolize her role as chief cook and bottle washer, as
domestic housewife and stay at home mom, dedicated to a life of
cooking and washing with spinning on the side. She must not trip
over the groom's miniature marriage bed in the hallway.
33. Consummation of marriage was part of the ceremony for those
who chose. The marriage of young people�girls at age 12, boys at
14, but usually older, 17 for girls was most common, and men older,
saw to it that the room was decorated with objects of fertility and
phallic symbols. Girls as young as seven in some families were
married to older men or boys a few years older, but did not move to
the groom's home until they both were old enough to start a family
and their own household.
34. The marriage bed room was decorated with fruit and flowers.
Green leaves were put in the windows. The marriage bed was called
the torus genialis. For the last time, the bride's parents handed
the bride over to the groom. Still, there was an escort into the
bedroom, called the pronuba. The pronuba led the bride with her eyes
closed by one hand into the bedroom. The pronuba had to be an old,
married woman whose husband was still alive and who only had been
married once. She had to represent a faithful wife.
35. She told the bride what she has to do on her wedding night
and as a faithful wife thereafter�washing, cooking, spinning,
weaving and care or leadership of the house hold or servants doing
the household chores. The bride either did it herself or if she was
rich had servants, but she still had to tell them how to do it and
what to do in the domestic life�cooking, washing, cleaning, and
shopping for which foods. The pronuba's job was to teach the bride
what the bride must do to run her home on a daily basis such as how
to get find and judge the best cuts of meat or vegetables. The bride
needed a mentor. That was the pronuba's duty.
36. In the bedroom the pronuba prayed with the bride on how to
be the incarnation of a faithful wife and how to ask for a blessing
on the union.
37. The pronuba then undressed the bride, took away her jewelry
and put it in a safe place and asked the bride to get into bed,
under the covers. Then the pronuba took her leave. Later, the groom
entered escorted by those who he choose to take with him to his
marriage bed room. Or he could enter alone. Outside, the pronuba
offered a sacrifice of cakes made of cheese, honey, and flour, and
then went home. Finally the groom's friends took a hint and left the
couple alone. Oustide the marriage bedroom, the wedding feast
continued with the relatives feasting, singing, and dancing.
38. No consummation of the marriage would be done until there
was a performance of a play with the actors being the bride and
groom. Yep, another skit in the marriage bedroom. The play consisted
of actual lines and drama from a skit. The bride had to play being
not interested at all in consummating the marriage. The groom would
beg her to change her mind. She had to put on a crying act and turn
him away. He'd speak to her love poetry. She'd signal him by
addressing him as "husband," and he calling her "wife." After an
actual play with recited lines were said, or at least play-acting of
reluctance, the groom had to learn how to untie a very complex tight
knot around her waist. She wore nothing but a girdle with this rope
knotted so it would take him a long time to get the knot untied�a
way of making sure he was patient and slow to anger.
39. When and if he finally figured out how to untie the knot in
the rope around her waist fastened around her girdle or a band of
cloth around her waist, the only thing she was wearing under the bed
clothing, he proved himself worthy to consummate the marriage or at
least agree to her wishes that it wasn't required.
40. There was even a law about the consummation of marriage. It
was called the law of foedus lecti, a contract of fidelity. However,
consummation wasn't necessary or required by law for the marriage to
be legal. Whatever the couple decided, no one asked in the morning.
The bride emerged the next day to her family and guests with a new
name, "matrona" or matron. She was no longer considered a young
girl, but a matron and was supposed to act and look
matronly "matrona."
41. The most important emphasis on the marriage besides having
heirs was that the bride now belongs to the new family's religio.
That night another grand feast and pageant would take place with the
wedding guests called the repotia. That's the main wedding feast
dinner and drinks. It was a party in every sense of the word.
42. You, too could have your own Roman wedding feast, at least
in costume and food with maybe some Latin vows. All you need is a
menu and a skit for the wedding procession split into the bride and
groom's pageant where you meet at one location.
43. What to serve at an ancient Roman breakfast wedding feast:

Serve this ancient Roman recipe for egged toast.
Put out a plate of fresh balls of Mozarella cheese�the kind made
fresh from whole milk. This gives some protein to the egg bread
served on the side.
Take several slices for each party member of good, thick egg bread.
Dip the egg bread into a mixture of egg and goat milk. I prefer low-
fat Meyenberg goat milk I can buy in the health food section of the
supermarket. You use your favorite brand.
Coat the egg bread in the mixture of beaten eggs and milk. Fry in
hot extra virgin cold pressed olive oil until golden brown. Drain
off the oil and put on a platter.

Now in some more olive oil fry sliced dried fruit�apricots,
strawberries, raisins, currents, sliced peeled apples, or any fruit
you want. I like bananas. Drain and add orange blossom honey to the
olive oil mixture. You can also use maple syrup, but honey is more
ancient Roman. Pour the syrup and dried fruit over the egg toast and
serve with a ball of baked ricotta cheese and honey on the side.

Octavia Fabia Scriba
http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com
or
http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis? C. Minucius Scaevola
From:	"James LaSalle" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:45:30 -0600

Ave Uncle!

Thank you for your knd words?

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Mica Deformis Sabulum
----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis? C. Minucius Scaevola

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to C. Minucius Scaevola. Salve.

While I agree that G. B. Agricola is no Cato the Elder, his "and we need a
plan" is not without merit. He wants action and that shows his energy and
desire for progress. Like you, he is one of the most active citizens on the
main list and, also like you, no one agrees with him 100% of the time. I am
sure that this thread is already causing our magistrates to begin thinking
about making plans on how to respond. Indeed, this thread has already caused
at least five citizens I have never heard from to respond. Sometimes the
most beautiful pearl of wisdom began as the constant irritation of a single
ugly grain of truth.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis, Lawyer w/misanthropic, chauvinistic viewpoint
From:	"James LaSalle" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:46:28 -0600

Ave Secundus

Sounds like a solid plan to me.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis, Lawyer w/misanthropic, chauvinistic viewpoint

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to G. B. Agricola. Salve.

Agricola, grab girl by hair. Hit with club. Drag back to cave. Eat raw
meat. Fire for sissies. I know, I know . . . Joke. Joke.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis, Lawyer w/misanthropic, chauvinistic viewpoint
From:	"James LaSalle" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:46:57 -0600

Ave Secundus

Sounds like a solid plan to me

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis, Lawyer w/misanthropic, chauvinistic viewpoint

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to G. B. Agricola. Salve.

Agricola, grab girl by hair. Hit with club. Drag back to cave. Eat raw
meat. Fire for sissies. I know, I know . . . Joke. Joke.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Nova Roma interaction and the Macro-world a modest proposal
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:11:02 -0500

Salve Romans

I would like to make a modest proposal to increase our public interaction with the macro-world. As most, if not all of you are aware Nova Roma now has it's own book club. Most Citizens have their favorite books both fiction and no-fiction on Rome, so I propose that each of us ( if financially able) buy four of our favorite books on Rome, and donate them to a local school , college or public library. We can fill the NR treasury at the same time by buying them through Amazon .com on the main NR web site. If a good size number of citizens lives near each other this could add up to hundreds of books on Rome being placed in local libraries. A special Nova Roma book plate could be printed and place in each book prior to donation to the library. One person per province could keep track of who was buying which books to keep the duplication to a minimum. If only half the stated population bought books that would be 3200 books, no small number. We might even be able to expand this to include a "Roman night at the Library" book reading. So what do you think?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizen

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roma interaction and the Macro-world a modest proposal
From:	"James LaSalle" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:34:28 -0600

A fantastic idea!

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:11 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roma interaction and the Macro-world a modest proposal

Salve Romans

I would like to make a modest proposal to increase our public interaction with the macro-world. As most, if not all of you are aware Nova Roma now has it's own book club. Most Citizens have their favorite books both fiction and no-fiction on Rome, so I propose that each of us ( if financially able) buy four of our favorite books on Rome, and donate them to a local school , college or public library. We can fill the NR treasury at the same time by buying them through Amazon .com on the main NR web site. If a good size number of citizens lives near each other this could add up to hundreds of books on Rome being placed in local libraries. A special Nova Roma book plate could be printed and place in each book prior to donation to the library. One person per province could keep track of who was buying which books to keep the duplication to a minimum. If only half the stated population bought books that would be 3200 books, no small number. We might even be able ! to expand this to include a "Roman night at the Library" book reading. So what do you think?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizen

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A quest . for Venator
From:	"elinla02 <gmarilde@hotmail.com>" <gmarilde@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 05 Feb 2003 04:38:01 -0000

Salve magne poeta et bone amice Venator!

I'd like to ask you for a special prayer to say goodbye to some
friends.
Montevideo, my city, is green and grey. He (male to us) is usually
called "the City of Trees", but it doesn't mean that he's a sanctuary
for our fixed companions. Near the airport there is a "protected"
park, a reservation, that will be almost completely removed because
it obstructs the view needed for the landings.
The fact is that this seems sadly strange to us. But nobody cares,
because nobody can do anything. The Company and the Government have
spoken: 2500 trees (yes, twenty five hundred) will be cut off.
Old and beautiful oaks, pines and eucalypti! Let me believe there is
a place for woods in Aeternitas! I need to believe I will see them
again some day. I'm devastated, my body is becoming slippery sand
like the hungry desertic plains that slowly swallow the world.
Everything becomes dry and bitter.
Which kind of life will we live without trees?
This is it, Oh Skald. I remembered you. Knowing that Ask and Embla
were created from trees by the Gods, and, above all, knowing the
reverence you and your community have for the paternal Yggdrasil is
enough to me. Norse people respect the life-giving green breath.
I cannot imagine other way of paying respect to these beings than
reciting some ancient words filled with the love of wisdom.
A prayer or a simple word garland from an immortal green land.
What else could be done?

Thanks for your time.
Valeria Constantina Iuliana.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Oath
From:	"James LaSalle" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:40:57 -0600

I , Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Legate Major of Campus Region of the AMS Province to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Legate Major of Campus Region of the AMS Province and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Public Dioscuri Ritual, Monday, Jan 27th
From:	Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:41:12 -0800 (PST)

Thank you
"Marcus Cassius Julianus <cassius622@aol.com>" <cassius622@aol.com> wrote:--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@y...>
wrote:
> How does a Nova ROman learn how to be a priest/follower of the
Dioscuri?

Salve,

Thanks for asking this question, it's always great to see someone
interested in working publicly on behalf of the Gods. :)

Firstly, and most importantly, one would need to be an experienced
practitioner of the home Lararium. One needs to have a good practical
understanding of the Religio Romana before being able to practice on
behalf of the entire Roman community. If you haven't already been
doing Roman rituals for some time, I do recommend visiting the
Religio Romana section of the NR website. There you will find
information on how to set up a home Lararium, the basic daily rites,
etc. If you have questions about any of that you can always post to
the ReligioRomana list, or email any of the Pontiffs.

Doing the household rites (and other rituals as desired) at the home
Lararium gives good practical 'hands on' experience. However, that is
only part of what's needed. Study and learning about the Religio
Romana is crucial. There are some excellent books recommended in
the "bookstore" section of the Macellum that can help you get
started, and again feel free to ask questions when you're ready for
more.

I beleive a priesthood position dedicated to Castor and Pollux would
be a "Sacerdos" position, so the office would be "Sacerdos Dioscuri"
or perhaps "Sacerdos Castores". This priestly office would require
both regular private rites to Castor and Pollux, and also presiding
over public rituals. In other words, a "Sacerdos Dioscuri" should be
presenting public rituals as I made an attempt at on January 27.

Definitely good knowledge of the Dioscuri would be needed. This would
take some real research on your part, but you'd have the benefit of
in a sense being able to build your priesthood from the 'ground up'.

Eventually, when you felt ready, you would need to make an
application to the Collegium Pontificum for your desired priesthood.
The length of time you'd want to spend before making such an
application would vary. If you were already a long-time practitioner
of the Religio, maybe only a few months of specific research would be
needed. If you're starting as a new beginner, more time to learn and
practice would be a good idea.

The Collegium Pontificum would then evaluate your application, and
ask questions, request further information if needed, etc. A vote
would be taken. If you were approved, you would be given instructions
on how to proceed from there... if not, you would recieve info on
what you'd need to learn before you could apply again.

Hope that helps. If you have any further questions, please feel free
to email me in private. :)

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis? C. Minucius Scaevola
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:34:07 -0500

On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 08:54:43PM -0500, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com wrote:
> >From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to C. Minucius Scaevola. Salve.

Salve, F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus -

> While I agree that G. B. Agricola is no Cato the Elder, his "and we need a
> plan" is not without merit. He wants action and that shows his energy and
> desire for progress.

I don't wish to sound rude, but I have no desire to "play telephone",
either (A explains to B what C meant, while C is free of any
responsibility for A's version of reality...) I'm certain that Agricola
can explain his own motives and desires.

> Like you, he is one of the most active citizens on the
> main list and, also like you, no one agrees with him 100% of the time.

<blink> *I'm* one of the most active citizens here? I have to wonder at
the criteria you're using.

> I am
> sure that this thread is already causing our magistrates to begin thinking
> about making plans on how to respond. Indeed, this thread has already caused
> at least five citizens I have never heard from to respond. Sometimes the
> most beautiful pearl of wisdom began as the constant irritation of a single
> ugly grain of truth.

Please remember that the oyster in your simile drowns the irritating
grain in layers of slime. The pearl is only a by-product, of no value to
the mollusc itself - and is, in fact, the direct cause of its death.

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Amicus verus est rara avis.
A true friend is a rare bird.
-- N/A

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Oath
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:55:18 +0100

Salve,

I see that you've taken the a oath of an elected magistrate (the same as the
Consules, Praetors, Tribunes, etc.) when the position of Legate is an
appointed one.

Just wondering: was that the correct oath? Don't appointees use the new one
that C Fabius Quintillianus presented to us in December?

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: James LaSalle [mailto:jlasalle@kc.rr.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 5 februari 2003 5:41
Aan: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [Nova-Roma] Oath

I , Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La
Salle)swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings,
and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never
to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)further swear to fulfill
the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Legate Major of Campus
Region of the AMS Province to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Legate Major of Campus Region of the AMS Province and all the
rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Columbia- I thought you would like to see this
From:	URCITANUS <urcitanus@terra.es>
Date:	Wed, 05 Feb 2003 12:57:22 +0100

Well, it�s hard to me to try to express how deeply sorry I feel for the
seven people who died in the Columbia explosion.
BUT
I don�t think it�s a good idea to keep on talking about this
unfortunate accident on and on, at least not here. If we do, I could
tell you that I am sorry too (if not more) for the 6 members family who
died last January in a train accident in Albacete (Spain) or for those
women and children who are daily slaughtered by Jewish troopers in
Palestina.
Please, I keep on wondering why are we discussing this topic in this
forum. Is it just because it happened in US? I don�t know...

Having said this, I repeat that the Columbia disaster really touched me
and I PRAY EVERYDAY FOR THESE ASTRONAUTS�SOULS.

Requiescant In Pace

antonius adrianus urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Fecha: Martes, Febrero 4, 2003 11:54 pm
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Columbia- I thought you would like to see this

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salve Romans this is from one of the web site I subscribe too and
> thought you might like to read this one.
>
>
>
> Vale Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
> COLUMBIA
>
>
>
> Columbia gone - seven brave souls
>
> Who each took on incredible roles
>
> In the frontiers of space,
>
> With �lan and with grace,
>
> Accepting risk in pursuit of our goals.
>
>
>
> Columbia gone - and now we mourn.
>
> It's a time when emotions are torn.
>
> As we grieve for the dead
>
> We must still look ahead -
>
> Honor them with a program reborn.
>
>
>
> Columbia gone, incredibly,
>
> We feel like they're our own family -
>
> Each a permanent part
>
> Of our collective heart.
>
> To those brave astronauts - RIP.
>
>
>
>
>
> Copyright, 2003
>
> KLDD Telecom
>
> (http://www.KLDD-Telecom.com)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.</tt></br>
>
> </body></html>
>
>

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Columbia- (offtopic)
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:23:56 +0100

Salve Antonius Adrianus Urcitanus,

> Please, I keep on wondering why are we discussing this topic in this
> forum. Is it just because it happened in US?
In a word: yes.
Other countries don't have the high drama media & propoganda machine at work
for them like the US does. These 7 deaths are indeed sad, but they've
received about 50,000 times more media attention here in Europe than the
14000 people who died in Turkey in the earthquake of 1999.... And if I see
one more grammatically incorrect, pseudo-sensitive, teary eyed speech from
George W. Bush, I think I'll puke.(Hate mail can be sent direct to
diana@pandora.be..... )

Vale!
Diana Moravia

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Oath
From:	"James LaSalle" <jlasalle@kc.rr.com>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:30:01 -0600

Sorry. Where is the right one?

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Oath

Salve,

I see that you've taken the a oath of an elected magistrate (the same as the
Consules, Praetors, Tribunes, etc.) when the position of Legate is an
appointed one.

Just wondering: was that the correct oath? Don't appointees use the new one
that C Fabius Quintillianus presented to us in December?

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: James LaSalle [mailto:jlasalle@kc.rr.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 5 februari 2003 5:41
Aan: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [Nova-Roma] Oath

I , Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La
Salle)swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings,
and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never
to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)further swear to fulfill
the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Legate Major of Campus
Region of the AMS Province to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Legate Major of Campus Region of the AMS Province and all the
rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Oath
From:	"Charlie Collins" <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:57:36 -0600

Ave Diana,
This was the oath I was orignally instructed to use when I was appointed
a Legate Major(before I became Propraetor). So I asked Gaius Basilicatus
Agricola to
take the same one. Since the new oath did not exist at
the time I thought he should take the one I told him to
as he will be my Deputy administrating a Regio in
the Province. If I am wrong please someone let me know.

Vale,
Sextus Cornelius Cotta

Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma

----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Oath

> Salve,
>
> I see that you've taken the a oath of an elected magistrate (the same as
the
> Consules, Praetors, Tribunes, etc.) when the position of Legate is an
> appointed one.
>
> Just wondering: was that the correct oath? Don't appointees use the new
one
> that C Fabius Quintillianus presented to us in December?
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia Aventina
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: James LaSalle [mailto:jlasalle@kc.rr.com]
> Verzonden: woensdag 5 februari 2003 5:41
> Aan: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: [Nova-Roma] Oath
>
>
> I , Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)do hereby solemnly
> swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
> interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
>
> As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis
La
> Salle)swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings,
> and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
>
>
> I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)swear to uphold and
> defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear
never
> to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
>
>
> I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)swear to protect and
> defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.
>
>
> I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La Salle)further swear to
fulfill
> the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Legate Major of
Campus
> Region of the AMS Province to the best of my abilities.
>
>
> On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
> Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
> position of Legate Major of Campus Region of the AMS Province and all the
> rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
>
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
> Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
> Legate Major for Regio Campus
> America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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>
>

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Roma interaction and the Macro-world a modest proposal
From:	"zak29577 <casca@post.com>" <casca@post.com>
Date:	Wed, 05 Feb 2003 13:19:34 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve Romans
>
> I would like to make a modest proposal to increase our public
interaction with the macro-world. As most, if not all of you are
aware Nova Roma now has it's own book club. Most Citizens have
their favorite books both fiction and no-fiction on Rome, so I
propose that each of us ( if financially able) buy four of our
favorite books on Rome, and donate them to a local school , college
or public library.
<snip>

Salve Citizens

This is a great idea. A word of warning when donating to a public
library, however: Try to find out which type of books your library
will actually keep to put up on their shelves. Many times donated
books only end up on tables during the annual "used book sale".

Vale

Gaius Ursus Casca


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Oath
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:37:57 +0000 (GMT)

Salvete,

My understanding is that legates should still take the
original oath. Only scribes and accensi should take
the new oath, if required to do so by their
supervising magistrate.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

Ave Diana,
This was the oath I was orignally instructed to use
when I was appointed
a Legate Major(before I became Propraetor). So I asked
Gaius Basilicatus
Agricola to
take the same one. Since the new oath did not exist at
the time I thought he should take the one I told him
to
as he will be my Deputy administrating a Regio in
the Province. If I am wrong please someone let me
know.

Vale,
Sextus Cornelius Cotta

Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma

----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Oath

> Salve,
>
> I see that you've taken the a oath of an elected
magistrate (the same as
the
> Consules, Praetors, Tribunes, etc.) when the
position of Legate is an
> appointed one.
>
> Just wondering: was that the correct oath? Don't
appointees use the new
one
> that C Fabius Quintillianus presented to us in
December?
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia Aventina
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: James LaSalle [mailto:jlasalle@kc.rr.com]
> Verzonden: woensdag 5 februari 2003 5:41
> Aan: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: [Nova-Roma] Oath
>
>
> I , Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La
Salle)do hereby solemnly
> swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act
always in the best
> interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
>
> As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Basilicatus
Agricola (James Louis
La
> Salle)swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome
in my public dealings,
> and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and
private life.
>
>
> I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La
Salle)swear to uphold and
> defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of
Nova Roma and swear
never
> to act in a way that would threaten its status as
the State Religion.
>
>
> I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La
Salle)swear to protect and
> defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.
>
>
> I, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola (James Louis La
Salle)further swear to
fulfill
> the obligations and responsibilities of the office
of Legate Major of
Campus
> Region of the AMS Province to the best of my
abilities.
>
>
> On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the
presence of the Gods and
> Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and
favor, do I accept the
> position of Legate Major of Campus Region of the AMS
Province and all the
> rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.
>
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
> Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
> Legate Major for Regio Campus
> America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Columbia- (offtopic)
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:48:03 -0800 (PST)

We talked about WTC for quite awhile on this list also....its something that effects the citizens...remember we are part of the world, not just an online community that lives in a bubble uneffected by worldly matters.
After a bit, most "off topic" things move to the back alley...so I would not be to concerned about it being on the main list for a time.
MBA
Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@pandora.be> wrote:Salve Antonius Adrianus Urcitanus,

> Please, I keep on wondering why are we discussing this topic in this
> forum. Is it just because it happened in US?
In a word: yes.
Other countries don't have the high drama media & propoganda machine at work
for them like the US does. These 7 deaths are indeed sad, but they've
received about 50,000 times more media attention here in Europe than the
14000 people who died in Turkey in the earthquake of 1999.... And if I see
one more grammatically incorrect, pseudo-sensitive, teary eyed speech from
George W. Bush, I think I'll puke.(Hate mail can be sent direct to
diana@pandora.be..... )

Vale!
Diana Moravia

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Oath
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:32:01 +0100

Salve,

<This was the oath I was orignally instructed to use when I was appointed
<a Legate Major(before I became Propraetor). So I asked Gaius Basilicatus
<Agricola to take the same one.

You were following the edict that says "all citizens who assume *any*
magistracy of Nova Roma, whether elected or appointed" must take the Oath of
Office. http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/consul-1999-09-07.html

But that was before the edict of January 1 2003, which gives another Oath
for appointed positions:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/consul-2003-01-01-iii.html (text
below this email).

The edict states "It is my intention that this oath should be sworn by every
Appiator in Nova Roma and that also other more informal "officials" could be
required to swear this oath."

I think that the legati falls under the category of a 'more informal
official', since the provincial governor can 'fire' the legati at any time
(see V.C.1.d. of the Constitution). "I understand that I serve solely at
the discretion of my magistrate" is mentioned in the new Oath of Apparitores
edict. So in my opinion, I think that the Oath of Apparitores is more
appropriate for a legate.

The new edicta is a bit vague as to who needs to take it specifically which
appointed officials should be considered more informal. What we need is a
few simple sentences amending the 2 relevant edicts so that it can be clear
who takes what oath. An oath is an oath so we might as well use the correct
one!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

EDICTUM CONSULARE
Oath of Apparitores
Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani
Edictum Consulare CFQ III de Iusiurando Apparitorium (The Third Consular
Edict Concerning the Oath of Attendants/Apparitores)

There have been a discussion about oaths in Nova Roma that has convinced me
that there is a need for a separate oath for Appiatores, as I do think that
their positions certainly are serious, important and needed in their own
way. It is my intention that this oath should be sworn by every Appiator in
Nova Roma and that also other more informal "officials" could be required to
swear this oath. I end by thanking Illustrus Decius Iunius Palladius, who
provided me with the major part of this oath and my colleague Illusrtus
Titus Labienus Fortunatus who supported me in this work.

Oath for Apparitoria
I, __enter Roman name here____________do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the
honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of __enter name
of appointing magistrate here____ while I hold this office, except when such
action would be illegal or unconstitutional.
I, _____________________further swear to fulfill the obligations and
Responsibilities of the office of ______________to the best of my Abilities
while following the Roman virtues and ideals.
I,_____________________swear to give faithful service to my magistrate, and
not to divulge any information discussed in confidence. I understand that I
serve solely at the discretion of my magistrate.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of_____________with all the privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.

01 January 2756

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Columbia- (offtopic)
From:	"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:19:23 -0000

> the United States is a nation whose history is filled with death and violence

Show me a nation whose history doesn't contain death and violence. Compared to a vast majority of European nations, I think the US gets off pretty lightly.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Columbia- (offtopic)
From:	Michael Loughlin <quintusmeridius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:14:35 -0800 (PST)

You have to remember, that the United States thrives on this type of media. I think one fact about the United States that is interesting, though it probably shouldn't be mentioned under the same string as the Columbia tragedy, is that the United States is a nation whose history is filled with death and violence and that is exactly what fascinates its citizenry the most too. Now for those of you who reside in the United States I say that as a general comment about Americans as I don't think everyone of us is some kind of warmonger who enjoys the death and suffering of others. So if you are in anyway offended I apolgize. But sit back and reflect on that fact and I think most would agree, maybe not in those words but along those lines.
Quintus Meridius Brutus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis?
From:	Gnaeus Marius <gnmariusasia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:13:09 -0800 (PST)

--- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com wrote:
> Actually, the idea of long-term leases for
>
<snip>
>
> With the relative low costs of structures made of
> cob and strawbale, it would
> be possible to construct reasonable facsimiles of
> single story Italic-style
> homes, shops, temples, et cetera; without creating a
> hodgepodge of styles.
> Such structures can be build in many localities with
> the aid of an
> experimental building permit. Further, such
> structures are virtually fire
> proof, highly energy efficient, and can be
> constructed by almost anyone with
> a little training and some in-depth practice.
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
>
>>
Salve,

Please see http://www.calearth.org......

Vale,

=====
Cn Marius Asia

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis?
From:	Gnaeus Marius <gnmariusasia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:20:17 -0800 (PST)

--- Gnaeus Marius <gnmariusasia@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com wrote:
> > Actually, the idea of long-term leases for
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > With the relative low costs of structures made of
> > cob and strawbale, it would
> > be possible to construct reasonable facsimiles of
> > single story Italic-style
> > homes, shops, temples, et cetera; without creating
> a
> > hodgepodge of styles.
> > Such structures can be build in many localities
> with
> > the aid of an
> > experimental building permit. Further, such
> > structures are virtually fire
> > proof, highly energy efficient, and can be
> > constructed by almost anyone with
> > a little training and some in-depth practice.
> >
> > F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
> >
> >>
> Salve,
>
> Please see http://www.calearth.org/ ......
>
> Vale,
>
> Gn Marius Asia

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Another Proposal....
From:	Gnaeus Marius <gnmariusasia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:34:34 -0800 (PST)

Ave Nova Romani,

I would like to respectfully submit another propsal
for heightening the awareness of the general public in
each Provincia.

This would require the effort (and a little cash,
collectivly) of the Cives in each Provincia. In each
Provincia, a special committee would have a number of
rubber stamps made up with something like:

"This Material Is Provided Courtesy of the Nova Roman
People (and/or) Government For More Information,
http://www.novaroma.org [Provincia Contact Info]"

With monies collected by the Committee, a trip would
be made to the local SAM'S Club (I'm not sure how the
non-US Privincia would handle this), and cans/bags of
food would be purchased, stamped, and placed in boxes
along with some informational literature (pampheletes,
etc.), and donated to either a homeless shelter, food
bank, relief group, etc.

And probably also have press releases ready.....

My $.02 Sesterces......

=====
Gn Marius Asia

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Columbia- (offtopic)
From:	Michael Loughlin <quintusmeridius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:05:49 -0800 (PST)

Yes it is very true that the United States has not suffered as nearly a violent history as many European nations such as France, Great Britain, Scotland, Ireland, and Rome. But then again we've been in existence for only two hundred years. Another thing is that times have changed. Today political influence and/or control is done through words and agreements and not by the sword/gun. Any violence for the most part experienced within our borders has been rather minute compared to the wars raged in Scotland and Ireland by Great Britain, the Reign of Terror in France by Robespierre, the military expansion of the Roman war machine. I do concur with you that we hardly have the right to make a claim to be on the same playing field as those European nations. However, my point was that today we sensationalize violence and those who carry out violent acts (serial killers, mass murderers, and terrorists). We not only sensationlize but glamorize it and receive some kind of pleasure from it. Now I will admit I enjoy a good action film or war flick. But the way the media puts that exra effort to get that key shot of the bloody, maimed, and charred corpse or the inujured bystander. What is the absolute need to priortize death and violence in the news over issues such as civil rights, civil liberties, Supreme Court decisions or current affairs that don't involve death and violence. Are they any less important? Yes an issue like going to war with Iraq I think is important and to keep citizens informed. But other issues don't need to take back stage to the latest killing. That was the point of my statement. I in no way meant to make any suggestion that we have had any more violent a history in our existence than any European nation.
Quintus Meridius Brutus

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] 2 poems, was A quest . for Venator
From:	Pipar - Steven <catamount_grange@inwave.com>
Date:	Wed, 05 Feb 2003 15:33:23 -0600

Salve Valeria Constantina,

I was greatly saddened to read your news of the trees being sacrificed to expand the airport.

While not specifically about trees, this is a poem I wrote for a ritual Honoring Holy Mother Earth
(Nerthus). The first stanza is repeated as the Chorus of the song.

Green Folk Speak

Mother Nerthus send us life;
In growing things upon Midgard;
Fruitful Bounty of Your Kindness;
Which we must earn, though Gift of Work

Listen closely and hear the sounds,
Of root and branch, of stem and leaf,
The small, still voice of all plant life,
Surrounding us, bespeaking us
- Chorus -

>From earth and sun, from wind and rain,
With helping hand and on their own
Plants grow from seed, make wide world bloom,
Produce their fruits, become our Weal
- Burden -

In kitchen plot, in vasty fields,
We sow and reap, we till and wet,
We scrape and scratch, we dig and hoe,
Our labors hard, our rewards good
- Chorus -

In beauty's form, they please the eye,
And odors sweet, do tickle nose,
In blossoms bright, do honeybees,
Find the stuff which, may become mead
- Chorus -

In plainer form, there is good use,
Not only food, but healing, too,
In fruit and nut, in pulp and seed,
In stem and leaf, in rind and root
- Chorus -

>From stem and boll, we fibers gain,
To spin out yarns for weaving cloth
To form the threads which become rope,
To cover us and bind things tight
- Chorus -

Without plant life, we would be not,
They are the stuff, of all being,
Sustaining us, sustaining world,
So hear them well, give rightful thanks
- Chorus -

Listen closely and hear the sounds,
Of root and branch, of stem and leaf,
The small, still voice of all plant life,
Surrounding us, bespeaking us
- Chorus -
- Chorus -

This next poem I wrote about a day out in the woods last hunting season.

A Morning's View - To The Honored Prey

Acorns and Death, wait in the woods
Amongst the trees, old dance goes on
Hunter seeks prey, larder to fill
Deer seeks only, fodder to chew

Birds flutter past, singing their songs
Chirping, calling, tumble through air
Scratching the dirt, peck seeds and bugs
Living their lives, hunter means naught

Black water mere, ruffled by breeze
Leaf and twig dance, tossing, turning
Hunter's thoughts flow, hoping to see
Branch antlered stag, death-thorn to cast

Sunna shines bright, o'ertopping trees
Swamp meadow grass, golden and tall
Hiding the byre, of prey he seeks
Luck of the Hunt, wily and Wyrd

Small muddy brook, flows from the pond
Seeking to join, swift creek close by
Water birds bright, float on the top
Chuckling, calling, Life of the Land

Kestrel flies by, seeking its prey
Field mouse or vole, hidden in weeds
Lights on a branch, observes domain
Swoops down right quick, strikes and makes kill

Rustle of leaves, hunter peers round
Glint of ivory, within the shade
Crackling hoof steps, one, two, three, four
Big buck ambles, without concern

Deer treads slowly, straight at the man
Brown eyes gleaming, nose in the wind
But Luck is good, on hunter's side
Death-fang is cast, pierces stag-heart

Uller's Ur-beast, stumbles, then runs
Out of the woods, onto crop-field
Pauses to look, then slowly sinks
Into the verge, his final bed

Hunter watches, respectfully
Waits a little, then slowly goes
To the Buck's side, sees it is dead
Pulls out a flask, pours mead in thanks

Life comes from Life, Earth's eldest Law
Whether by Tooth, Talon or Hand
Always is Prey, and the Preyer
Cycle of All, Within, Without

Acorns and Death, wait in the woods
Amongst the trees, old dance goes on
Hunter seeks prey, larder to fill
Deer seeks only, fodder to chew

I am in process of writing a poem specifically about my feelings for the woodlands themselves, apart
from hunting forays (which are of great sacredness to me).

I hope my words bring you some comfort.

In amicus sub fidelis - Venator

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Novaroma largesse
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:09:02 +0000

Salvete omnes:

I cannot resist answering to so many ideas ranging from grandiose land
purchase ideas to scholarships and charities etc.. How are we going to do
all that if we don't even have enough money to publish a simple newsletter,
and that doesn't require much, just plain xerox and mailing cost (for 55
subscribers).

Furthermore, the Album Gentium supposedly contains 1600 citizens? don't
count on it. Think 200/300 at the most, and of these not everyone has the
means and time to go around spreading largesse.

Proof of citizenship has the color green, and a one time adrenaline
burst doesn't count either. Let's get the cart (and that's committed
citizenry) before getting the horse, and remember that a horse has to be fed
and that cost money too.

I believe it when I see it.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Space Shuttle Columbia (Off-toic)
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:20:21 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : �quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>� <richmal@attbi.com>
>
>Consider the size of the rockets used to launch a shuttle into
>orbit. A plane would have to carry the weight of those rockets plus
>the shuttle. Considering that the temperatures involved in a rocket

Most of that rocketry is doing the job the plane does. There were small experimental rocket planes launched like that in the 50s. I'd imagined a hypersonic aircraft capable of achieving escape velocity by flight. Barnes-Wallace had something of the sort on drawing board in the 50s that he expected to fly upside-down to keep itself within the atmosphere. You use flight to get up the highest speed you can, and at those speeds, a very little little atmosphere should provide a lot of lifet - after all there are robot aircraft planned for Mars - and when you're at the limit, the rocket stage disconnects before building up to full power so it doesn't blow the carrier to bits. That glides back for next time.

By the way, are you aware that the conspiracy theories are flying already even worse than the usual kind because they're theories of failed conspiracy - trying to put the blame on Al-Quida unsuccessfully. Not much to worry about useless conspirators then!

Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quo Vadis?
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:27:39 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
>qualifies them to be magistrates. I'm hoping to prove that women in power
>here in NR are as aggressive as males. If we can prove this, those
>
And a few other objections raised one hopes! Instead of this macrosociety constant refrain of "women can be just like men" how about demonstrating that men can be just as humane as women are imagined to be - and that women can be so too!

Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Oath
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:25:43 +0100

Salvete Quirites et Illustra Diana Moravia Aventina et Illustrus
Decimus Iunius Silanus!

Illustrus Decimus Iunius Silanus You were the one who pointed out the
problem with the oaths to me. I agree with You that Legati are not
apparitores, indeed they are instead the "extended arm" of the
Governor, who has Imperium, which power he could be said to delegate
a bit of to the Legati. I see the Legati as some kind of Subgovernors.

The apparitores are listed in "LEX VEDIA APPARITORIA"
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-07-30-v.html , they are
Lictores, Lictores Curiati, Scribae and Accensi. So there is no doubt
that these must take the oath described in my edict:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/consul-2003-01-01-iii.html

I define "other more informal "officials" (who) could be required to
swear this oath" as officials at the same "level" or lower than the
apparitores. I don't count the Legati into this category.

>Salvete,
>
>My understanding is that legates should still take the
>original oath. Only scribes and accensi should take
>the new oath, if required to do so by their
>supervising magistrate.
>
>Valete
>
>Decimus Iunius Silanus.

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

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